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0:00:05 Intro
0:00:30 ANZAC Banter
0:01:47 Gamepass on Switch 2?
0:08:23 Are the Big 3 at a Gridlock?
0:17:35 Third Party Switch Games are Codes
0:21:00 Switch 2 Release Price
0:23:52 Oblivion Remake Launch
0:29:04 Tom's Played Oblivion Remake
0:46:36 Phil's Played Case of the Golden Idol
0:56:00 Tom's Played Blue Prince
1:04:10 SPOILER ALERT for Blue Prince
1:24:42 Outro
In this episode Tom and Phil discuss the weeks news, including more Switch 2 controversy, and Microsoft’s remaster of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. We then give our impression of the Blue Prince, a game that many are putting on the top of their GOTY lists. Tom dabbled with the Oblivion remaster and after last episode Phil decided to play The Case of the Golden Idol and tell Tom exactly what he thinks about it.
ANZAC Biscuit Recipe
Mix together 1 cup plain flour, 1 cup of sugar, 1 cup rolled oats, 1 cup coconut, pinch of salt. Melt 250g of butter in 2 tablespoons of water, then add 1 tablespoon of can syrup and 1 teaspoon of baking soda. Stir into dry ingredients. Mix well. Place teaspoonfuls on greased tray and bake in moderate oven till browned (about 10 minutes). Allow to cool on tray.
Transcript:
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:10.480
Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode 170 of The Game Under Podcast.
00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:15.160
Tom: I'm your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined, as always, by...
00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:19.620
Phil: Oh, Phil Fogg.
00:00:19.620 --> 00:00:23.380
Phil: Sorry, I was waiting for you to make some sort of Anzac Day reference or something.
00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:25.900
Tom: I forgot your name.
00:00:25.900 --> 00:00:26.800
Tom: That was the issue.
00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:28.200
Tom: I was waiting for you to fill me in there.
00:00:28.200 --> 00:00:28.800
Phil: Yes.
00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:29.520
Phil: Fill you in.
00:00:29.520 --> 00:00:31.180
Phil: Exactly.
00:00:31.180 --> 00:00:32.520
Phil: I just mentioned Anzac Day.
00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:34.600
Phil: That's something for our foreign listeners.
00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.640
Phil: Anzac is short for Australian New Zealand Armored Corps.
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.540
Tom: It's also a biscuit.
00:00:40.540 --> 00:00:41.420
Phil: Yes.
00:00:41.420 --> 00:00:45.540
Phil: I was going to say it's also a fantastic biscuit with some variants.
00:00:45.540 --> 00:00:49.780
Phil: I've got to ask you, do you believe coconut should be an ingredient in Anzac biscuits?
00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:50.740
Tom: Yes.
00:00:50.740 --> 00:00:51.300
Phil: Okay, good.
00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:52.200
Phil: We're on the same path.
00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:57.000
Phil: So rolled oats, coconut, sugar.
00:00:57.160 --> 00:00:58.180
Phil: What's your thoughts on honey?
00:00:58.180 --> 00:00:59.940
Tom: Probably should have sugar.
00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:02.840
Tom: Could have honey though, why not?
00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:03.400
Phil: Yeah.
00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:06.240
Phil: Have you made your own Anzac biscuits?
00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:07.960
Tom: Yes, I believe I have.
00:01:07.960 --> 00:01:09.100
Phil: I have a killer recipe.
00:01:09.100 --> 00:01:13.100
Phil: I'll put it up on the show notes there.
00:01:13.180 --> 00:01:14.480
Tom: In our cooking section.
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:16.320
Phil: In our cooking section.
00:01:18.600 --> 00:01:25.340
Tom: I'm looking forward to reading all the back story that will be featured in the recipe, I presume.
00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:26.020
Phil: Yeah.
00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:28.320
Phil: Now also, do you have your Die of Destiny ready?
00:01:28.320 --> 00:01:30.380
Phil: Because I don't know if you've finished any games.
00:01:30.380 --> 00:01:34.380
Phil: I know we're going to be talking about some big games this week, like Blue Pince and Oblivion and stuff like that.
00:01:34.780 --> 00:01:37.500
Tom: The Die of Destiny was located, I believe.
00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:38.040
Phil: Okay.
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:38.760
Phil: Very good.
00:01:38.780 --> 00:01:39.280
Phil: Excellent.
00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:39.600
Phil: All right.
00:01:39.600 --> 00:01:41.720
Phil: Well, we'll start in with the news.
00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:50.840
Phil: Story number one, Xbox boss Phil Spencer reiterates support for the Switch 2, saying Nintendo has been a great partner.
00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:57.000
Phil: We think it's a unique way for us to reach players who aren't PC players and aren't players on Xbox.
00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:05.740
Phil: It lets us continue to grow our community of people that care about the franchises that we have, and that's really important for us to make sure we continue to invest in our games.
00:02:05.740 --> 00:02:12.020
Phil: The Xbox head reiterated the company's plans to keep delivering games and making them available quote in as many places as possible.
00:02:13.600 --> 00:02:24.380
Phil: Not really a new story there, I guess, other than the fact that it has Switch 2 in the headline and this credit goes to Variety, the entertainment magazine.
00:02:26.660 --> 00:02:27.800
Phil: I got a question for you.
00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:35.120
Phil: Do you see, this is an easy question, do you see any world in which Game Pass is on a Nintendo system?
00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:39.020
Tom: I think it comes down to whether Nintendo would allow it.
00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:48.560
Tom: I presume, with the statements Microsoft has been making, they would like Game Pass to be on both PlayStation and Switch.
00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:49.480
Phil: Absolutely.
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.920
Phil: They'd love it on Sony's platform as well.
00:02:53.920 --> 00:02:58.180
Phil: But do you think Nintendo would allow it?
00:02:58.180 --> 00:02:59.320
Tom: I think maybe not.
00:02:59.320 --> 00:03:03.800
Tom: Maybe they think it would devalue the brand somehow.
00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:10.380
Phil: I would say they absolutely would not want it on there, because if you're giving away all these, you're not giving it away.
00:03:10.380 --> 00:03:12.080
Phil: I mean, it's a subscription.
00:03:13.160 --> 00:03:18.480
Phil: Obviously, there would be a profit share there to make it worthwhile for Nintendo.
00:03:18.480 --> 00:03:30.440
Phil: But I think as long as Nintendo is financially viable and making money, they would be foolish to allow Game Pass or any subscription service on their platform.
00:03:30.440 --> 00:03:38.100
Phil: Because while people are playing the new Oblivion on Game Pass, they're not going out and buying a Nintendo game.
00:03:38.100 --> 00:03:42.220
Tom: It would also be competing with their own subscription service as well.
00:03:42.220 --> 00:03:42.920
Phil: Yeah.
00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.800
Phil: I don't think there's any way possible for that.
00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:49.240
Phil: I think Microsoft would love it.
00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:52.260
Phil: Now, what do you think Sony would do it?
00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:53.500
Phil: Or just for the same reasons?
00:03:53.500 --> 00:03:54.560
Phil: Absolutely not.
00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:56.620
Tom: I would presume Sony wouldn't either.
00:03:57.220 --> 00:03:58.880
Phil: Yeah.
00:03:58.880 --> 00:03:59.480
Phil: Do you think-
00:04:00.140 --> 00:04:06.300
Tom: What about Game Pass officially on a Steam Deck in some capacity somehow?
00:04:07.380 --> 00:04:11.760
Phil: I'd say that Steam would do it.
00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:19.620
Phil: Valve would allow it, but they'd probably want some monstrosity of a percentage of the profit share.
00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.940
Phil: Because it would also, for the same reasons, it's going to cut into their revenue.
00:04:23.940 --> 00:04:33.760
Phil: But if they were getting, let's say, 50 percent of the subscriptions that come through Steam, they might do it.
00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:45.460
Phil: And if Nintendo had three hardware flops in a row, they might look at it in a different way as well and go, well, why are we making these games home towards the Western market?
00:04:45.460 --> 00:04:46.920
Phil: Or why are we chasing that?
00:04:47.140 --> 00:04:52.540
Phil: You know, our third-party support could be Game Pass, basically.
00:04:52.540 --> 00:05:00.740
Phil: And we'll stick to making our games and then you've got Game Pass on there as well, as long as they were getting a lucrative enough piece of the action.
00:05:01.900 --> 00:05:05.680
Tom: Here's a question for you on the Switch 2 launch.
00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:13.720
Tom: I think a notable thing I've seen lacking from discussions is whether people think it will actually be successful or not.
00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:17.200
Phil: Well, there's a couple of things there.
00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:40.400
Phil: Number one is, and I understand what you're saying, the reality right now, and this isn't, really isn't indicative of how it will go forever, but apparently pre-sales in Japan have sold out, and they had to actually issue a statement because they're a publicly traded company, stating that we are not going to have enough systems at that launch.
00:05:40.780 --> 00:05:48.860
Phil: And I haven't got the latest on the US pre-sales because that just was basically like a day and a half ago.
00:05:48.860 --> 00:06:01.820
Phil: So based on pre-orders, it will be successful, but the people who are pre-ordering, the people who are in the bag, they know exactly what's going on with the Switch 2.
00:06:01.820 --> 00:06:12.980
Phil: Whether it's going to be successful broadly will depend on whether they're able to bring in people who aren't following video game website news, website channels and things like that.
00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:17.540
Phil: So I think there's room there for them to fail.
00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:21.640
Phil: There certainly is and I'm not the only one to say it.
00:06:23.140 --> 00:06:27.680
Tom: I think the most interesting part is just that it's not a part of the discourse at all.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:37.100
Tom: In the past anyway, when a console has launched, that's been one of the major talking points, has it not?
00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:37.680
Phil: Absolutely.
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:37.940
Phil: Yeah.
00:06:37.940 --> 00:06:38.960
Phil: Is it going to fail or not?
00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:51.140
Phil: I have heard some people ask if it could possibly fail, and given reasons, like it's not innovative enough, it's too expensive, it's not innovative enough.
00:06:51.620 --> 00:07:00.960
Phil: I'm not the only one to have said that, but I don't think I see it in the broader community at all.
00:07:01.140 --> 00:07:06.780
Phil: I don't see regular Joes asking, is this going to succeed or not?
00:07:06.780 --> 00:07:07.640
Tom: I haven't seen it either.
00:07:08.580 --> 00:07:29.400
Tom: I think it goes back to the thing we've been discussing before about the total change in attitude with gamers when it comes to companies, where there doesn't really seem to be much criticism of them in terms of their consumer-based policies.
00:07:29.400 --> 00:07:36.640
Tom: And I think going with that is just an assumption that everything will succeed, because why wouldn't it?
00:07:36.760 --> 00:07:39.600
Tom: Everything is great, is it not?
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:40.300
Phil: Right.
00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:40.700
Phil: Yeah.
00:07:40.700 --> 00:07:49.900
Phil: And I really think the price point is something here that is going to cause some squeamishness amongst the broader community.
00:07:49.900 --> 00:07:53.060
Phil: Because at the end of the day, what are most people picking?
00:07:53.060 --> 00:08:01.860
Phil: Like they're either playing on a tablet, casuals, or either playing on a tablet, or they can get this switch with the Mario characters on it, right?
00:08:01.900 --> 00:08:03.580
Phil: From their perspective.
00:08:03.580 --> 00:08:06.920
Phil: And for 300 bucks or 200 bucks, you go, yeah, it'll be worth it.
00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:10.320
Phil: The kid's going to play with it for six years, it's fine.
00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:23.320
Phil: But when it's closer to a thousand bucks in Australia, when you add up a second controller in a video game and all the rest of it, we'll just basically that, you get a second control in the game.
00:08:23.320 --> 00:08:26.200
Phil: But maybe if we get on to the next story.
00:08:26.660 --> 00:08:32.980
Phil: But Mike, other question was before we get on to the next story, which is also Switch 2 launch related, so we can continue on that topic.
00:08:32.980 --> 00:08:38.080
Phil: Do you think we're at a gridlock with Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft?
00:08:38.420 --> 00:08:56.820
Phil: I thought this generation, something would shake out or maybe in the next generation of consoles, something would shake out where Microsoft is going to go, no, we're not going to make a console anymore, or Sony would do something similar or will pull back in some way.
00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:01.240
Phil: Like is Nintendo always going to be over there in the niche doing what they do?
00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:06.860
Phil: Is Microsoft going to stick with this game pass or bust strategy?
00:09:06.860 --> 00:09:16.520
Phil: Because when Spencer says in this, let us continue to grow our community of people that care about the franchises that we have, right?
00:09:16.520 --> 00:09:23.720
Phil: Now, he can say that now because they own Bethesda, and they own Activision, and they own a whole bunch of other companies as well.
00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:37.460
Phil: Five years ago, Microsoft was not talking about people who care about the franchises that they have because they basically had two or three franchises, Boots of Gears and Halo, and all of them were starting to show craft.
00:09:37.460 --> 00:09:47.460
Phil: So do you think where we are now with these three players involved in the way that they're involved, do you think that is going to be the status quo for the next five years?
00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:57.260
Tom: So by status quo, do you mean you were suggesting that another contender could potentially enter or solely that one might leave?
00:09:57.260 --> 00:10:01.880
Phil: I was thinking one of them had to have, one of these companies had to have left, right?
00:10:01.880 --> 00:10:02.500
Phil: Yep.
00:10:02.500 --> 00:10:07.300
Phil: It obviously wasn't going to be Nintendo with the most successful console sales of all time.
00:10:07.300 --> 00:10:13.720
Phil: But you look at Sony and they've got their console, but they haven't really got a great lineup of games.
00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:34.800
Phil: Because third-party support is something that's no longer really an issue between Sony and Microsoft because of the acquisitions, in part the acquisitions that Microsoft has made, and in part also because the economy, it costs so much to make these games, developers are not going to tie their games just to Sony.
00:10:34.800 --> 00:10:45.720
Phil: In fact, one of the store board companies like Square Enix basically said it was a mistake to release Final Fantasy VII Remaster exclusively on Sony initially.
00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:51.680
Phil: So I was looking at one of these guys to fall out, and I thought that it was going to be Microsoft.
00:10:52.720 --> 00:11:03.920
Phil: I think they still may, but they're still talking to talk about doing a handheld and doing a handheld, and it doesn't seem like any of these players are going to exit the scene.
00:11:03.920 --> 00:11:17.660
Tom: What happens, just to come up with a totally different direction to this, what happens if Sony and XBox both release, essentially, their version of a Switch, right?
00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:22.600
Tom: At a similar price point to the Switch 2.
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.020
Phil: I think it keeps going the way it goes.
00:11:27.020 --> 00:11:35.260
Phil: Like, for example, every Japanese business person I meet, and I meet a few, none of them have Samsung phones, none of them.
00:11:35.260 --> 00:11:39.140
Phil: None of them have Apple phones, none, not a single one.
00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:51.000
Phil: The Australian employees that work for the Japanese companies that have to go to Japan all the time, also do not have a Samsung or Apple phone.
00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:52.360
Phil: What do they have?
00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:54.840
Tom: You tell me.
00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:56.460
Phil: They have Sony phones.
00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:57.300
Tom: Yep.
00:11:57.300 --> 00:12:00.600
Phil: Every single one of them has a Sony phone.
00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:01.580
Phil: I can see the appeal.
00:12:01.580 --> 00:12:04.820
Phil: Now, it's running some version of Android, unfortunately.
00:12:04.820 --> 00:12:18.480
Phil: Otherwise, I'd be all over it, because Sony, there's no argument, well, you could probably argue it, but I don't think there's any argument that Sony, I'm sorry, that Sony makes exquisite electronic devices.
00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:19.440
Tom: Yep.
00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:22.360
Phil: In terms of design and feel.
00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.840
Phil: But have you seen a Sony phone in Australia here, like anyone using a Sony phone?
00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:28.320
Phil: If you have, it's probably-
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.160
Tom: I was unaware Sony made phones.
00:12:30.940 --> 00:12:31.900
Phil: Exactly.
00:12:31.900 --> 00:12:41.340
Phil: So that's why I think Sony can kind of just do what they do, and then they'll be fine because of the Japanese loyalty to their brand.
00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:44.220
Phil: Microsoft, there's no loyalty to the Microsoft brand.
00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:46.980
Phil: People use Game Pass because it's a good deal.
00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:50.520
Phil: If it ceases to become a good deal, they will cease to buy it.
00:12:50.520 --> 00:13:01.100
Phil: So to your question, and I did two episodes ago, I did an analysis of the low sales of hand-held devices outside of Nintendo's success.
00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:10.000
Phil: Everyone thinks it's successful, but really, Switch has been the only success in this sphere.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:21.820
Phil: I think Microsoft will release one, but I think if they do what Steam did and just basically make it a big picture Game Pass machine, I think it could have some appeal.
00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:23.620
Phil: I mean, people use Microsoft products.
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:30.140
Phil: I think almost every non-retired Australian uses a Microsoft product every single day.
00:13:30.140 --> 00:13:36.420
Phil: So there's something to that and people associating Microsoft with technology.
00:13:36.420 --> 00:13:39.200
Phil: So I think Sony will do it.
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:44.360
Phil: I think it'd be a success in Japan, but they'd probably price it out of the market elsewhere.
00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:55.660
Phil: The PlayStation 5 Portal has been a phenomenal success in the West and in Japan, and all that does is stream games from your PlayStation 5.
00:13:55.660 --> 00:14:10.600
Tom: I think it would also put Nintendo in an interesting position as well, because they would be once again stuck half a generation.
00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:23.680
Tom: Well, they haven't really caught up this generation, but for argument's sake, we'll say half a generation in the past, with potentially a similar price product.
00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:25.160
Tom: Yes.
00:14:25.160 --> 00:14:45.020
Tom: Unless Sony and Xbox were to be delivering something significantly more powerful, but with the length of video game consoles lifespan these days, it could be that the direction they move into is rather than releasing something significantly more powerful.
00:14:45.020 --> 00:14:50.460
Tom: The point of the next console might be hand-held functionality.
00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:53.360
Phil: It might be hand-held functionality, and it might-
00:14:53.360 --> 00:15:02.960
Phil: remember Microsoft made that statement that their next console will be the biggest technological jump in console history, right?
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.660
Phil: And everyone went, oh, wow, it's going to be so powerful.
00:15:06.660 --> 00:15:09.740
Phil: And I think it's going to be streaming.
00:15:10.060 --> 00:15:14.480
Phil: I think it's going to be pushing game pass through streaming.
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.140
Phil: And yeah, that's not going to work everywhere.
00:15:16.140 --> 00:15:20.360
Phil: It certainly won't work in Australia, and it won't work in most parts of the United States.
00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:25.100
Phil: But they'll also have a component where you can download the games as well.
00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:39.840
Phil: But if they can make their hand-held be a thin client, they can also play games locally if you have to, you know, that might be their big innovation.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:48.480
Phil: But yeah, I mean, it will put Nintendo in a difficult position because there will be at least a generation behind when Sony and Microsoft release their new systems.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:56.460
Phil: I still think this hand-held concept has to prove itself and that we could be heading for a big fall.
00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:07.480
Phil: But, you know, you look at the profusion of tablets in life, people using iPads and tablets, you know, constantly.
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:23.840
Phil: If they can think of the, if the general market thinks of these things as being a tablet for gaming, you know, then I think that you could have, this could be the form factor for the foreseeable future.
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:39.680
Phil: Certainly, buying a box from an electronic store and shoving it under your TV and then buying controllers for it is not, it's not the future, right?
00:16:39.680 --> 00:16:45.800
Phil: It's just not a part of regular consumers thinking that you would do, that you would buy a specific thing.
00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:54.860
Phil: Like people don't go out, people were used to buying, you know, a DVD player, for example, or a VHS player or a stereo system.
00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:57.500
Phil: And that's where a console sort of fit into it.
00:16:57.500 --> 00:17:03.500
Phil: Oh, I buy this thing to play my records, I buy this thing to watch movies, or I buy this thing to play games.
00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:06.140
Phil: Well, now those other things have gone away.
00:17:06.140 --> 00:17:08.480
Phil: They're still there for the hobbyists, obviously.
00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:15.180
Phil: You can still go out and buy these things, because, you know, there are still people that collect Blu-rays and records.
00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:26.220
Phil: But I think the concept of a console that you buy and put under your TV is going to go away.
00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:31.860
Phil: But if you've got a hand held that docks to your TV, it makes a lot more sense.
00:17:31.860 --> 00:17:33.440
Tom: Interesting times.
00:17:35.080 --> 00:17:41.100
Phil: Even more interesting, story number two, this credit goes to Eurogamer.
00:17:41.100 --> 00:17:42.100
Phil: Yeah, this is another question.
00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:48.000
Phil: Looks like most Switch 2 third-party physical releases don't have the game on the card.
00:17:50.980 --> 00:18:00.640
Phil: So, Nintendo has released this game key card format for their games, or at least it's an option.
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:05.400
Phil: So, it's a physical release you buy that has a download key rather than the full game data.
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:15.900
Phil: And that's going to be a pretty common sight because 11 of the 12 third-party games announced for Japan are all game key cards.
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:29.940
Phil: Now, you have to imagine that this means for the menu, for the publishers, this is obviously the cheapest choice because they don't have to buy high-capacity memory cards.
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:42.400
Phil: They can buy the lowest-capacity memory card because we're talking about a game key that's something like 16 characters, as opposed to having to buy multi-gig SD cards essentially for each individual game.
00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.340
Phil: So, you can see why third parties are doing it.
00:18:47.340 --> 00:18:49.020
Phil: The only exception is CD.
00:18:49.020 --> 00:18:52.440
Tom: Wouldn't they just have the code in the box printed?
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.640
Phil: Well, it's actually embedded in the card, which is good.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:04.820
Phil: This has at least one advantage over code in a box release in that these aren't locked to a specific user account.
00:19:04.820 --> 00:19:17.900
Phil: So, I can give you my Nintendo Switch game key card, and now you can use it on your system, and it's not checking to see if you're the legitimate user or not.
00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:24.500
Phil: You'll just put that into your Switch 2 and it'll go, oh, you need to download the files, and it'll let you download the files.
00:19:24.500 --> 00:19:26.120
Tom: Okay, that's good.
00:19:26.120 --> 00:19:29.800
Phil: Well, it's good for game sharing.
00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:37.340
Phil: I mean, because you're essentially allowing people to photocopy your game as many times as they want.
00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:43.840
Tom: Sorry, I previously had no interest in the Switch 2, now I have some interest in the Switch 2.
00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:47.000
Phil: Yeah, I think there's going to be probably a few websites.
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:58.840
Phil: Now, the game key cards, I don't think that the actual codes will be visible or something that the user will be able to see and copy.
00:19:58.840 --> 00:20:06.420
Phil: You'd probably need some device to dump the data onto, and obviously, they've got security around that.
00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:17.420
Phil: But, you know, I mean, it does allow you at least to resell it, as opposed to, you know, once you get to just get it, use a code, you've used it and you can't resell it.
00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:21.440
Phil: So, yeah, this is not surprising at all.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:27.400
Phil: It won't delight physical collectors, but I can see why the publishers are doing it.
00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:30.520
Phil: And of course, this will drive down the cost of games for the consumer.
00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:32.060
Phil: Ha, ha, ha.
00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:43.560
Phil: You know, it'll just make things better for the publisher and worse for the consumer because then the consumer has to pay for the download and the publisher gets to enjoy the larger margin of not having to buy a...
00:20:44.580 --> 00:20:51.500
Tom: Hopefully, it will result in low used game prices though as well.
00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:52.880
Phil: Yeah, hopefully.
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.900
Phil: I think GameStop is happy about this.
00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.600
Phil: EV Games, I don't think they're actually happy about anything.
00:21:00.600 --> 00:21:06.760
Phil: In other news, final prices were announced for Switch 2 games and it was available for pre-order in North America finally.
00:21:06.760 --> 00:21:11.580
Phil: Well, the rest of the world has been pre-ordering it now for about a month.
00:21:11.580 --> 00:21:14.680
Phil: Prices stayed the same as were advertised.
00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:20.480
Phil: However, accessories are going to cost more than they had thought.
00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:27.060
Phil: So, you want to guess what a Switch 2 Pro Controller costs in USD?
00:21:27.060 --> 00:21:29.880
Tom: What did the first one cost?
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.420
Phil: In USD, I think it cost about 70 bucks.
00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:33.940
Tom: Okay.
00:21:33.940 --> 00:21:36.080
Tom: Let's say 80.
00:21:36.080 --> 00:21:39.180
Phil: Yep, 85 bucks.
00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:43.620
Phil: If you want to buy another Joycon 2 pair, it is 100.
00:21:45.540 --> 00:21:46.520
Phil: You want to buy a strap for that?
00:21:46.520 --> 00:21:50.460
Tom: Weren't they relatively cheap on the Switch 1?
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:51.120
Phil: They were.
00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:56.580
Phil: I mean, it wasn't like you just go out and buy a billion of them, but they were affordable.
00:21:56.580 --> 00:22:01.920
Phil: I think in part because they broke so often that Nintendo had to concede something.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.160
Tom: And you couldn't use them as a mouse either.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:05.660
Phil: No.
00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:13.420
Phil: If you want to buy a strap for that Joycon 2, or just a single strap, you want to guess how much USD?
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:16.260
Tom: Twenty.
00:22:16.260 --> 00:22:18.160
Phil: Oh, yeah.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.380
Phil: Fourteen bucks.
00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:20.180
Tom: Okay.
00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:21.100
Phil: Fourteen bucks, which would be-
00:22:21.100 --> 00:22:22.880
Tom: So it's a bargain.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.340
Phil: Yeah.
00:22:23.340 --> 00:22:26.540
Phil: That'd be about $27 Australian.
00:22:26.540 --> 00:22:30.220
Phil: You buy the camera for a bargain, 55 bucks.
00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:34.760
Phil: If you want to buy a second dock for it, 120 bucks.
00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:36.940
Phil: Hey, how about a carrying case and screen protector?
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:37.840
Phil: Forty bucks.
00:22:37.840 --> 00:22:40.140
Phil: That's pretty good.
00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:41.380
Phil: But if you want to all in one-
00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:44.280
Tom: For a carrying case, is that good?
00:22:44.280 --> 00:22:46.000
Phil: For 40 bucks, if it's a good one.
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:52.300
Tom: I've got a Switch carrying case that is, I think was $27 Australian.
00:22:52.300 --> 00:22:52.680
Phil: Yeah.
00:22:54.260 --> 00:22:56.200
Tom: These are all US prices, aren't they?
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:56.500
Phil: US.
00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:56.980
Phil: Exactly.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.900
Tom: So I wouldn't say $70 is a good price for a carrying case.
00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:01.000
Phil: No.
00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:01.840
Phil: Well, you should.
00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:02.420
Phil: Okay.
00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:05.980
Phil: But what about the all-in-one carrying case?
00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:08.180
Phil: Probably has places for you to put the games.
00:23:08.180 --> 00:23:10.280
Tom: Does that include the console?
00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:11.420
Phil: No.
00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:16.300
Phil: That's a mere $85 USD.
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.020
Tom: It carries everything.
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.560
Tom: I can put more games than I have in it.
00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:29.540
Phil: Then you can get a 256 gigawatt memory card, as you call it, for Switch 2.
00:23:30.560 --> 00:23:35.440
Phil: That's a mere $60 USD, which I think is pretty fair, really.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.540
Tom: I assume you can just buy any SD card?
00:23:38.540 --> 00:23:48.620
Phil: Yeah, you can, but this is the official Microsoft branded Mario's faces on it, that you'll never see once you put it in the device.
00:23:48.620 --> 00:23:49.600
Phil: 60 bucks.
00:23:49.600 --> 00:23:50.000
Phil: All right.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.460
Phil: That's not okay.
00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:52.720
Phil: Okay.
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.000
Phil: We'll move on to story three, shall we?
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:57.200
Phil: Oblivion Shadow Drops.
00:23:57.300 --> 00:24:03.900
Phil: So Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion Remastered was shadow dropped this week, and it's available not only on-
00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.980
Tom: So it's not Oblivion Shadow Drop, that's not the game?
00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:10.900
Phil: No.
00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:16.060
Phil: It's not only available on Xbox and PC, but also on PlayStation 5.
00:24:16.060 --> 00:24:32.040
Phil: The remaster features updated visuals, improved mechanics, and all post-release DLC, which is pretty cool, and it is available on Xbox Game Pass for free if you of course subscribe for money.
00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:33.660
Phil: This of course was no surprise.
00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:38.600
Phil: Rumors about this remake surfaced in 2023 in the remaster.
00:24:38.600 --> 00:24:40.580
Phil: There's been stories about this going on and on.
00:24:41.020 --> 00:24:46.720
Phil: The remaster was actually leaked last week as well, and then the official Xbox support account gave out a release date.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:53.660
Phil: So I'm not sure you could call this a shadow drop, but at least they said the game exists and it's available now.
00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:56.840
Phil: There's a deluxe edition and a normal edition.
00:24:56.840 --> 00:25:11.020
Phil: The normal edition sells on Steam for Australian 85 AUD, and comes with some, the normal version comes with free horse armor, which is a great improvement on the original release.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.540
Tom: Did you say the deluxe version comes with free horse armor?
00:25:15.540 --> 00:25:18.280
Phil: No, the normal version comes with free horse armor.
00:25:18.280 --> 00:25:22.300
Phil: You do not have to spend $2.99 to plate your horse.
00:25:23.840 --> 00:25:30.420
Phil: This was developed, I just want to bring to people's attention, that this was co-developed by Bethesda in a company called Virtuous.
00:25:30.560 --> 00:25:37.100
Phil: I had not heard of Virtuous, so I looked them up and they basically provide video game development support.
00:25:37.100 --> 00:25:49.260
Phil: They're based in Singapore, they've got like 4,200 employees and 25 offices, and they worked on things like NieR Automata, League of Legends, Bioshock, The Collection, and Marvel Avengers.
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.780
Phil: So it sounds like they've probably done all of the work here.
00:25:53.780 --> 00:25:55.260
Phil: So yeah, I thought that was pretty good.
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:58.040
Phil: I beat the original.
00:25:58.040 --> 00:26:03.260
Phil: I found The Elder Scrolls IV to be, we did talk about Oblivion last episode.
00:26:03.260 --> 00:26:05.260
Tom: But-
00:26:05.260 --> 00:26:09.060
Tom: Can we take credit for the re-release?
00:26:09.060 --> 00:26:09.620
Phil: I think so.
00:26:09.620 --> 00:26:15.240
Phil: I think finally they said, well, Game Under Podcast is talking about it.
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.360
Phil: I think we're at the crest of the wave.
00:26:17.780 --> 00:26:19.900
Phil: I don't think we're going to get much more hype.
00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:20.880
Phil: Now is the time.
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:22.680
Phil: Drop, drop, drop.
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:26.100
Phil: They picked up the phone to Singapore and said, get it out.
00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:30.100
Phil: I found the Oblivion to be a lot more, I don't know.
00:26:30.100 --> 00:26:31.100
Phil: Maybe it's just my impression.
00:26:31.100 --> 00:26:37.660
Phil: I thought it was a lot shorter and a lot more linear than say Morrowind or Skyrim.
00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:41.300
Phil: It seemed much more like a video game.
00:26:41.300 --> 00:26:43.220
Phil: I think that's why it was so successful.
00:26:43.220 --> 00:26:51.520
Phil: It did launch with the Xbox 360, and it was the game that I picked up with my 360, one-to-one was available.
00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:58.200
Phil: It did look phenomenal and people who had never played Elder Scrolls before were playing it.
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:00.240
Phil: It's fondly remembered.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.580
Phil: I think it's getting a fairly good response.
00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:07.820
Phil: But we'll just go into what we've been playing.
00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:11.500
Phil: You've actually had an opportunity to play this, is that right?
00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:25.340
Tom: Well, on your point, I think the main quest line in Oblivion was very short compared to us, a standard RPG, let alone an Elder Scrolls game.
00:27:25.340 --> 00:27:28.760
Tom: That might be what you're remembering.
00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:43.080
Tom: To me anyway, the world of the original felt a lot less interesting and detailed compared to Morrowind due to the procedural generation.
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:55.280
Phil: Yeah, I found that it felt very boxed in and pretty, but I see that the prettiness of it at the time carried it a long way.
00:27:55.280 --> 00:28:00.060
Phil: I think it's a much prettier game than Skyrim, certainly.
00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:01.820
Phil: When I say pretty, I mean in every aspect.
00:28:01.820 --> 00:28:04.780
Phil: I mean, visually, it just seems to look better than Skyrim.
00:28:05.020 --> 00:28:16.420
Phil: But maybe it's because Skyrim is now 10 years old and I've got my rose-colored nostalgia glasses on for what Oblivion actually looks like.
00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:22.100
Tom: Well, it did have a certain Vaseline Sheen to it as well.
00:28:22.120 --> 00:28:24.000
Phil: Exactly.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:35.960
Phil: And then also starting with Patrick Stewart voicing the character that quickly is just gotten rid of about four minutes into the game.
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:37.760
Phil: But just even starting with that.
00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:41.160
Tom: I could only afford a certain number of lines, unfortunately.
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.460
Phil: Yeah, which was the same thing with Cyberpunk and Keanu Reeves.
00:28:44.520 --> 00:28:50.020
Phil: And also, what was the fellow that was Metal Gear Solid?
00:28:50.020 --> 00:28:51.140
Tom: David Hayter.
00:28:51.140 --> 00:28:53.600
Phil: No, no, the last one, Kiefer.
00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:54.580
Tom: Kiefer Sutherland, yes.
00:28:54.580 --> 00:28:55.840
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
00:28:55.840 --> 00:28:57.680
Phil: So they get paid by the word.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:59.180
Phil: I wish I was.
00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:04.460
Phil: So do you want to give your impressions of Elder Scrolls IV, the remaster?
00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:04.760
Tom: Yep.
00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:21.180
Tom: Well, so far, I went back to it out of curiosity because, as I said, I disliked it, let alone did not like the original version of Oblivion, yet played for 120 hours.
00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:26.380
Tom: So this was a exercise in introspection.
00:29:26.380 --> 00:29:37.380
Tom: I was wondering if the remake would be able to offer me any insights into why it was, I spent 120 hours on a game that I did not like.
00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:43.860
Tom: And I think the answer is, it's just absolutely hilarious.
00:29:43.860 --> 00:29:54.520
Tom: I mean, everyone knows all of the Oblivion memes, but as it opens, the opening itself is hilarious.
00:29:54.520 --> 00:30:02.240
Tom: I think all Elder Scrolls games open with you being imprisoned or at least all the ones I have do.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:24.280
Tom: But just the way the opening unfolds with Patrick Stewart appearing and giving a very disinterested yet professional performance while being surrounded by some of the most hilarious voice acting ever recorded is just absolutely beautiful.
00:30:24.280 --> 00:30:29.900
Tom: And you then break out into this majestic, beautiful world.
00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:54.060
Tom: Yet it turns out to be a world that is structured where you're essentially wandering through an area that looks very beautiful in which compared to other Elder Scrolls games, nothing is really happening and the dungeons are essentially disconnected from the world as are the towns, which is the case in other Elder Scrolls games as well.
00:30:54.060 --> 00:31:03.940
Tom: Yet a lot more happens in the interstitial sections where you're wandering from dungeon to town, so it doesn't feel like they're disconnected.
00:31:03.940 --> 00:31:08.100
Tom: It feels like the one sort of world.
00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:19.640
Phil: I think technically, like at the time, releasing any Bethesda game on a console, which this is still before updates were a part of the thing.
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:24.680
Phil: You couldn't be assured that the end user was even going to have an Internet connection.
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:31.880
Phil: I think on the base 360, there was not an Ethernet port, for example.
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:41.440
Phil: And so I think the accomplishment of actually shipping this game on a disk is pretty remarkable.
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:54.520
Phil: Like the fact that they were able to ship this on a 360 disk without a safety net, and that the game wasn't completely broken, or wasn't, I don't remember ever being broken.
00:31:54.520 --> 00:31:56.660
Phil: I think, you know, that is an accomplishment.
00:31:56.660 --> 00:32:14.080
Phil: And so while the game is perhaps more tightly focused than you or I would want it, I believe I can give them some cover because of the accomplishment of actually releasing a game on a brand new system and not having the safety net of being able to update it.
00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:18.860
Tom: Well, there was also the original Xbox release of Morrowind.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:20.780
Phil: Right.
00:32:20.780 --> 00:32:23.720
Tom: So it's not totally unprecedented.
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:35.320
Tom: And you could say that the Xbox version of Morrowind is broken, but you do have to bear in mind the PC version of Morrowind is also broken.
00:32:35.320 --> 00:32:35.640
Phil: Yeah.
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:40.600
Phil: And to tell you the truth, I played Morrowind in its entirety on the Xbox.
00:32:42.580 --> 00:32:46.220
Phil: And then I went out and bought the expansions on the Xbox and all the rest of it.
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.100
Phil: And then when I played it on the PC finally, it was similarly janky and broken.
00:32:52.100 --> 00:33:03.440
Phil: So yeah, that's a very good point, though I think also, too, with what they were able to achieve with the graphics compared to the relative simplicity of Morrowind is admirable.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.740
Phil: And you're right, they did have that practice run with Morrowind on the Xbox.
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:17.920
Tom: Yep, and as well as the structural thing, the gameplay as well is similarly hilarious, which applies to all Elder Scrolls games.
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:23.640
Tom: I think they have updated the combat in the remake.
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:29.800
Phil: Yeah, I read that the leveling system has been adjusted to prevent enemies from outclassing players.
00:33:29.800 --> 00:33:51.600
Tom: Yeah, there was, I think there was something weird about how you set the difficulty level in Oblivion, which resulted in you, particularly early on, just getting absolutely slaughtered, which I found to be the case on the hardest setting in Oblivion as well.
00:33:51.600 --> 00:34:12.540
Tom: Rats, I think, took three hits to be able to kill me and required about probably 20-plus hits to kill with a sword, or maybe 10 with the bow and arrow with the Wood Elf character I chose to start the game with.
00:34:12.540 --> 00:34:23.460
Tom: So it still has the option to be highly challenging like Oblivion did early on, but may make sense in some way.
00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:28.360
Phil: Was you're mentioning that you play as a Wood Elf or Humblebrag?
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:29.900
Tom: Is that a Humblebrag?
00:34:30.020 --> 00:34:30.480
Phil: Yeah.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.940
Phil: Is that a Humblebrag?
00:34:31.940 --> 00:34:33.240
Phil: I don't know.
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:39.240
Phil: So what do you think Phil Fogg picks as the default character when he's going into these things?
00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:40.480
Tom: Orc.
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:41.600
Phil: Orc?
00:34:41.600 --> 00:34:43.220
Phil: No, no, no.
00:34:43.220 --> 00:34:44.500
Phil: You're going to think more vanilla.
00:34:44.680 --> 00:34:46.040
Tom: Human character, I presume.
00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:46.580
Phil: Exactly.
00:34:46.580 --> 00:34:48.140
Tom: Breton or Imperial.
00:34:48.220 --> 00:34:50.020
Phil: Yes, exactly.
00:34:50.020 --> 00:34:52.300
Phil: Yes, I always go with that.
00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:54.900
Tom: White male Breton or Imperial.
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:56.340
Phil: With all power and armor.
00:34:56.340 --> 00:34:59.600
Tom: Blonde hair and blue eyes.
00:34:59.600 --> 00:35:02.500
Phil: The way it's supposed to be.
00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:04.880
Phil: Now, I've also read that they've got new characters.
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:11.040
Phil: What we're talking about is that they said there's new character models that NPCs, enemies and playable characters have been completely redesigned.
00:35:11.100 --> 00:35:12.040
Phil: Is that true?
00:35:12.040 --> 00:35:13.500
Tom: I've always said it's true.
00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:25.620
Tom: This was something I was worried about because one of the most charming things about the original is the ridiculous voice acting, which suited the character models very well.
00:35:25.620 --> 00:35:57.840
Tom: I was thinking if they're going to go for a less ridiculous look, maybe it won't work as well, but I'm happy to report that the characters in the game look suitably comical, and in a stroke of, I think, genius, while the animation is not like The Last of Us or something like that, when the voice actors are going over the top, the characters' expressions reflect this, and it is just beautiful to witness.
00:35:58.020 --> 00:35:59.340
Phil: It does.
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:01.760
Phil: They've retained the original charm there.
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:03.100
Phil: Absolutely.
00:36:03.100 --> 00:36:04.320
Phil: I do want to correct myself too.
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:06.320
Phil: I've been calling this a remaster.
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.660
Phil: This is a full-blown modernized remake.
00:36:09.660 --> 00:36:21.120
Phil: So this has been rebuilt from the ground up, which is, you know, so this isn't just, you know, smooth looking graphics and all of that sort of thing.
00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:26.280
Phil: They've, though, however, I'm not sure if you were able to play it at 4K.
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:27.780
Tom: I certainly could not play it at 4K.
00:36:28.540 --> 00:36:28.820
Phil: Okay.
00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:32.620
Phil: Yeah, it's built on Unreal Engine 5.
00:36:32.620 --> 00:36:35.240
Tom: Well, we will get to the technical side of things.
00:36:35.240 --> 00:36:50.000
Tom: I think now is a good time to, because I think this is actually the first game I've come across of that's a new release that is now challenging my graphics card a little bit.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:37:09.340
Tom: Solely when I'm outside during the day, if I have the graphics on medium instead of low with quality instead of balanced DLSS, the frame weight will drop as low as 30, which is clearly unacceptable.
00:37:09.340 --> 00:37:09.740
Phil: Okay.
00:37:09.740 --> 00:37:14.680
Phil: But you're still, what you were talking about is when the game character is outside in the middle of the day.
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:15.460
Tom: That's right.
00:37:15.460 --> 00:37:15.700
Tom: Yes.
00:37:15.700 --> 00:37:16.040
Phil: Okay.
00:37:16.040 --> 00:37:18.440
Phil: I thought perhaps you're taking your computer outside.
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:19.360
Phil: No.
00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:22.160
Phil: I was like, well, I was like, yeah, I think the grabbing.
00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:27.660
Phil: Well, how far have you had to pair it back to like 360 level or?
00:37:27.660 --> 00:37:27.860
Tom: No.
00:37:29.380 --> 00:37:39.180
Tom: It's not too much of an issue because it's mainly just as I start sprinting or turn suddenly, there's a frame drop essentially.
00:37:39.180 --> 00:37:41.280
Tom: It's manageable.
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:50.380
Tom: I have been keeping it on, I think, high settings and quality DLSS.
00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:55.380
Tom: If I'm in a dungeon or a town, it's 50 to 60 FPS.
00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:57.280
Tom: Outside for the most part, it is as well.
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:03.900
Tom: It's just when there's a sudden change in speed or direction, there's a massive frame drop like that.
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:05.400
Phil: Sprinting is new in this game.
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:08.080
Phil: That's one of the things that they've had for it.
00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:09.880
Tom: Yes.
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:13.980
Tom: The leveling, as you said, that's a totally new leveling system.
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:24.780
Tom: It seems to function similarly to Morrowind because I've noticed that when I'm sprinting my athletics experience is going up.
00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:26.040
Phil: Oh, cool.
00:38:26.040 --> 00:38:29.000
Tom: Which I think was a great system in Morrowind.
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.140
Phil: Yeah, definitely.
00:38:30.140 --> 00:38:32.220
Phil: The more you use something, the better you get at it.
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.640
Phil: Exactly.
00:38:34.640 --> 00:38:35.940
Phil: They've updated the UI.
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:37.680
Phil: Did you notice?
00:38:37.680 --> 00:38:42.540
Tom: I did not notice because I could not remember what the UI from Oblivion looked like.
00:38:43.020 --> 00:38:43.720
Tom: They've made it basically-
00:38:43.720 --> 00:38:46.040
Tom: I presumed they had updated it though.
00:38:46.040 --> 00:38:51.020
Phil: They've made it basically the same as Skyrims and Elder Scrolls Online.
00:38:51.020 --> 00:38:54.320
Phil: Elder Scrolls Online, do I have to play that?
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.140
Phil: What do you think?
00:38:56.140 --> 00:38:56.780
Tom: Potentially.
00:38:57.380 --> 00:38:58.120
Phil: Yeah.
00:38:58.820 --> 00:38:59.920
Phil: So, okay.
00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:03.400
Phil: So it sounds like you're pretty happy with it.
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:03.880
Tom: I am.
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:13.500
Tom: This would have been, I think, I made it out of the tomb, the sewer, and to the first area you're meant to get to essentially.
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:27.940
Tom: So I haven't really played it very much and this was going to be probably the end of my playthrough because as amusing as it is, do I really want to spend much time in Oblivion again, and the answer is no.
00:39:27.940 --> 00:39:33.880
Tom: But then I did see, supposedly, you can complete the campaign in 10 hours.
00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:36.880
Tom: So I may have to attempt to do that.
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:37.980
Phil: Yeah.
00:39:38.260 --> 00:39:48.040
Phil: I would think that your original 120 hours of gameplay included a lot of emergent gameplay, storytelling type stuff, mucking around.
00:39:48.240 --> 00:39:54.160
Tom: The side quests, of course, which is generally speaking the interesting part of an Elder Scrolls game.
00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:55.240
Phil: Much more interesting.
00:39:55.240 --> 00:39:57.460
Phil: As you know, I don't mess around with side quests.
00:39:57.600 --> 00:40:05.140
Phil: I remember the game being about maybe 15 or 17 hours long, and just sticking to the mainline story.
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.480
Phil: So yeah, so that's going to be your last little...
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:11.240
Phil: It is the point though, isn't it?
00:40:11.240 --> 00:40:23.300
Phil: Like, there's so much more out there to play, that if you've already played this game, would you really drop in for another even 70 hours, which is probably what I would do these days.
00:40:23.780 --> 00:40:26.680
Phil: I'm a little bit more interested in the world.
00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:34.080
Phil: And I'm not sure I would, unless it was absolute, you know, unless it was less to play, but there's always more things to be playing, so.
00:40:34.080 --> 00:40:43.320
Tom: But it would require me to stop playing the game on hard, because the combat requires some degree of effort on hard.
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:51.060
Tom: So it will be a question also if I continue, of whether I can live with myself if I lower the difficulty level.
00:40:51.120 --> 00:40:51.700
Phil: I see.
00:40:51.700 --> 00:40:51.960
Phil: Okay.
00:40:52.780 --> 00:41:00.400
Phil: So since this is your last exit with this game, do you want to give it a score for the Diode Destiny, or is it just, you know, you've only played it for 20 minutes.
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.260
Tom: We'll give it a provisional Diode Destiny, I think.
00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:04.800
Phil: Yep.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:06.660
Phil: And I'll get the mini-fog ready.
00:41:06.660 --> 00:41:13.600
Phil: As regular listeners may not remember, the mini-fog is a minifigure that looks like me that I roll.
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:18.080
Tom: I thought that was what you called a certain part of yourself.
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:21.520
Phil: I don't roll out my mini-fog during the podcast.
00:41:21.600 --> 00:41:22.400
Phil: Thank you very much.
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:32.600
Phil: This is the minifig, the Lego minifig, and we're going to, he basically tells the truth, whereas the Diode Destiny honestly doesn't, most of the time, it often is very low scoring.
00:41:32.600 --> 00:41:34.080
Phil: So let's see.
00:41:34.080 --> 00:41:37.360
Tom: Well, that would be pretty accurate for my scores, and would it not?
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:38.540
Phil: It would.
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:45.940
Tom: And the Diode Destiny gives it a two out of 10.
00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.460
Phil: Two out of 10?
00:41:46.460 --> 00:41:48.480
Phil: I thought it was going to give it a two out of 10.
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.780
Phil: I will just roll the Mini Fogg here.
00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:58.400
Phil: And it gives it a 4.5 out of 10.
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:00.360
Tom: So both low scoring this time.
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:00.820
Phil: Yeah, yeah.
00:42:00.820 --> 00:42:01.700
Phil: It sounds like you're impressed.
00:42:01.700 --> 00:42:03.420
Phil: I mean, you know, you played 20 minutes of the game.
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:04.480
Phil: You're not going back to it.
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:06.220
Phil: You know, come on.
00:42:06.220 --> 00:42:28.480
Tom: And I would add, I would add, if anyone out there has not played Oblivion, you've got to, after all the memes, see at least a little bit of it for yourself, because it lives up to its reputation for hilarity and is a completely bizarre and I would say unique experience.
00:42:29.540 --> 00:42:37.840
Tom: All Elder Scrolls games have this sort of insanity to them, but I think it's due to the voice acting.
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.060
Tom: Maybe Skyrim tops it.
00:42:40.060 --> 00:42:41.020
Tom: I don't know.
00:42:41.020 --> 00:42:46.380
Tom: But for its time, it was just an incredibly ridiculous experience.
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:52.480
Tom: That is, I would say, like no other game, with the exception of potentially Skyrim.
00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:15.440
Phil: I think that's what Microsoft is betting on here or projecting is basically, there are tens of millions of people who play Skyrim, who have never played Oblivion, and basically, Oblivion is getting long in the tooth, so I think it's a fantastic time and a fantastic addition to Game Pass to give those people who have never played the game but love Skyrim an opportunity to play it.
00:43:16.680 --> 00:43:18.380
Phil: And I think it's fantastic.
00:43:18.540 --> 00:43:24.720
Phil: And I do want to reiterate, if you have not played it, you must play it.
00:43:25.660 --> 00:43:26.500
Phil: You've got to do it.
00:43:26.900 --> 00:43:29.200
Phil: It's part of the gaming law.
00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:36.880
Phil: You have to do it, and it looks like Bethesda and Virtuous have done a good job of remaking this game.
00:43:38.140 --> 00:43:53.840
Tom: Before we move on from The Elder Scrolls, I want to posit one final idea here, which is we all know another Elder Scrolls related meme is that there is no new Elder Scrolls game.
00:43:53.840 --> 00:44:05.040
Tom: Now, I've been thinking, is it possible to release a new Elder Scrolls game with how inherently ridiculous Elder Scrolls is?
00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:14.820
Tom: I don't know if it would be able to be as successful as it was in the past in the modern gaming zeitgeist.
00:44:15.940 --> 00:44:25.760
Phil: I think the longevity of Skyrim has proven that they don't think that they can release a different game and I don't think they will.
00:44:26.520 --> 00:44:28.920
Phil: I don't know what they're going to do with the next one.
00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:37.100
Phil: It just basically has to be probably a palette change, a change of setting, different dragons, I guess.
00:44:37.100 --> 00:44:38.180
Phil: I don't know.
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:39.820
Phil: They're obviously already working on it.
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:45.580
Phil: But someone out there is going to be going, guys, we're not making Minecraft 2.
00:44:45.580 --> 00:44:48.080
Phil: Why should we be making a Skyrim 2?
00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:54.580
Tom: Is there room for a ridiculous RPG like that anymore?
00:44:54.580 --> 00:44:55.740
Phil: Well, there's room for Skyrim.
00:44:55.740 --> 00:44:57.140
Phil: I mean, it's still making money.
00:44:57.140 --> 00:45:03.400
Phil: I mean, people are still playing, tens of millions of people are still playing it every day.
00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:08.340
Phil: I've bought at least three copies of the game at full price for various platforms.
00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:12.300
Phil: So I think there's still a place for it.
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:23.820
Phil: RPGs over the last two years have really, you think about Nier Automata starting that rebirth, and people looking for more RPG type experiences.
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:26.040
Phil: I think a Western RPG can still work.
00:45:26.040 --> 00:45:28.040
Phil: It just has to be a good game.
00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:33.600
Tom: Think of all the ones that are successful like Baldur's Gate III, for example.
00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:35.320
Phil: Yeah.
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:48.120
Tom: It's a totally different sort of tone, and it's a much more polished, and some might say, good experience.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:50.600
Phil: Oh, yeah.
00:45:50.600 --> 00:45:51.880
Phil: I think of Skyrim.
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:54.940
Phil: I don't think Bethesda knows it.
00:45:54.940 --> 00:45:57.240
Phil: I don't think that Todd Howard knows it.
00:45:57.240 --> 00:46:03.200
Phil: I think there are people at Bethesda that do know that Morrowind, I'm sorry, I might have to call it Morrowind.
00:46:03.200 --> 00:46:14.720
Phil: Elder Scrolls is a lot like a community play, with the people on stage taking it totally seriously while a part of the set is falling down in the background.
00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:24.720
Phil: That's the charm of the series is that you have all these people taking it extremely seriously while a cat walk on stage, it's not supposed to be there.
00:46:26.060 --> 00:46:28.080
Phil: I still think there's a place in the world for it.
00:46:28.080 --> 00:46:28.860
Phil: I definitely do.
00:46:30.080 --> 00:46:31.120
Tom: That's all I'm asking.
00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:34.820
Tom: I'm not saying there isn't, I was just asking your opinion on whether there was.
00:46:34.820 --> 00:46:36.400
Phil: Yeah, very much.
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:41.720
Phil: Well, do you want me to talk about a game that you compelled me to play?
00:46:41.720 --> 00:46:42.640
Tom: Go ahead.
00:46:42.640 --> 00:46:43.020
Phil: Okay.
00:46:43.020 --> 00:46:52.100
Phil: For those who didn't listen to last episode, Tom gave a review of The Case of the Golden Idol.
00:46:53.580 --> 00:46:55.160
Phil: I said, is this a game I should play?
00:46:55.200 --> 00:47:00.760
Phil: Because I just told him I played this point and click game called There Is No Game and wasn't very impressed with it.
00:47:02.640 --> 00:47:05.520
Phil: He said, I think it's a game you definitely should play.
00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.380
Phil: So I went, all right.
00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:12.320
Phil: So I looked at it and I went, he said I should play it and I should play it.
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:18.820
Phil: But then you made this little comment, I don't know, what did you say?
00:47:18.820 --> 00:47:23.840
Phil: See how far you get or if you stick with it, or if you get past the first chapter or something like that?
00:47:24.080 --> 00:47:25.140
Tom: Do you remember what you said?
00:47:25.140 --> 00:47:31.600
Tom: I think I said, I don't know if you'd play the whole of the game or not, but you'd definitely enjoy trying it.
00:47:31.600 --> 00:47:32.340
Phil: Yes.
00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:40.540
Phil: So that little voice was playing in the back of my head when I was playing this game going, I'll show that little bastard.
00:47:40.560 --> 00:47:42.660
Phil: I'm not going to give up on this game.
00:47:42.660 --> 00:47:46.880
Phil: In fact, yeah, you are short selling it.
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:48.340
Phil: It's a phenomenal game.
00:47:49.100 --> 00:47:50.200
Phil: I really like it.
00:47:51.600 --> 00:47:55.140
Phil: I just want to describe it in my own way.
00:47:55.140 --> 00:47:58.660
Phil: Basically, it's a whodunit.
00:47:58.660 --> 00:48:07.360
Phil: You solve, I think, in the base game, like 12 different murder mysteries, and they give you three static screens.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:15.800
Phil: They give you three static screens, maybe two, maybe one at the very start, and then maybe four as you go on and all that sort of thing.
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:24.360
Phil: They give you, like you said, a book that says blank, blank, blanked.
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:27.240
Phil: Well, blank, blank wanted a blank.
00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:29.800
Phil: So he asked blank, blank to get it.
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:34.420
Phil: When blank, blank arrived at blank, blank, blank, blank.
00:48:35.900 --> 00:48:43.580
Phil: Then as an optional, you have to identify all the people in the scene.
00:48:43.580 --> 00:48:49.120
Phil: If you do all the optional stuff, it makes the solving the actual case easier.
00:48:49.120 --> 00:48:59.820
Phil: So basically, you have to examine these three screens and observe these crime scenes to get the clues from the characters through its possessions and environmental details.
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:00.760
Phil: That's all you've got.
00:49:01.220 --> 00:49:02.600
Phil: That's all you've got.
00:49:02.600 --> 00:49:11.260
Phil: So there's a dead body and you've got to figure out the murder weapon, the person who did it, the motive and how it all worked.
00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:17.440
Phil: It sounds very simplistic, but it's actually a lot of fun and very complicated.
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:29.840
Phil: It requires a very basic level of logical deduction that I don't think a lot of games let you rely on, you know, and it doesn't hold your hand.
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:31.500
Phil: It has a hint system.
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:35.060
Phil: And I hope you're not drinking anything right now, I hope.
00:49:35.060 --> 00:49:35.900
Tom: No.
00:49:35.900 --> 00:49:37.740
Phil: I haven't used the hint system once.
00:49:38.600 --> 00:49:43.860
Phil: And I'm in Chapter 3, the seventh scenario.
00:49:43.860 --> 00:49:58.720
Phil: And I did go into the hint system once, but I was like, this isn't helpful because I know the hints that they provided when I did try it, well, I guess I did try it once.
00:49:58.720 --> 00:50:01.520
Tom: You were doing that just for journalistic integrity.
00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:01.680
Phil: Yeah.
00:50:01.680 --> 00:50:05.180
Phil: Well, it wasn't helpful at all because it's like, yeah, I knew that, I know that.
00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:09.900
Phil: Yeah, that's not the thing I'm trying to, that's not what I'm trying to figure out.
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:11.680
Tom: A murder has taken place.
00:50:11.680 --> 00:50:12.660
Phil: Yeah, exactly.
00:50:12.660 --> 00:50:16.020
Tom: Think about who might have murdered the person.
00:50:16.020 --> 00:50:17.780
Tom: Consider who the victim was.
00:50:17.780 --> 00:50:24.840
Phil: Did you, when as part of your journalistic integrity, when you were going through the hint system, did you find any of it particularly helpful?
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:25.520
Tom: No.
00:50:25.520 --> 00:50:28.120
Phil: Yeah, because I didn't need any help with the logical deductions.
00:50:28.120 --> 00:50:30.620
Phil: It was more like, what is this guy's name?
00:50:31.040 --> 00:50:32.420
Phil: Who is that guy and who is that guy?
00:50:33.140 --> 00:50:37.100
Phil: And you have to remember that all the evidence is right in front of you.
00:50:37.100 --> 00:50:49.720
Phil: And fortunately, and I think this is a really good game design element that they did, if there are 34 clues in a scene, they will count them down as you reveal them.
00:50:49.720 --> 00:50:55.080
Phil: So basically, as you go through these things, you build a vocabulary.
00:50:55.080 --> 00:51:03.940
Phil: So if you see someone's carrying a notebook, you click on the word notebook and that will become part of your vocabulary.
00:51:03.940 --> 00:51:18.160
Phil: So now you could say that blank, blank, okay, well, John Smith killed Mary Jane by blank, well, slapping her blank with a blank notebook.
00:51:18.160 --> 00:51:24.500
Phil: Okay, so you put that in, it's obviously a made up scenario, and that's not the correct answer.
00:51:24.500 --> 00:51:28.020
Phil: So you're like, okay, well, I know that the notebook is how the guy died.
00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:33.220
Phil: So now I've just got to identify how he did it or what the identity of the people are.
00:51:33.220 --> 00:51:37.460
Phil: Obviously, it's never as simple of a sentence as what I've just presented.
00:51:37.460 --> 00:51:40.540
Tom: And how the notebook could have been a fatal weapon.
00:51:40.540 --> 00:51:41.140
Phil: Yes.
00:51:41.140 --> 00:51:42.680
Phil: And now I'm playing this on Steam Deck.
00:51:42.680 --> 00:51:45.880
Phil: So I didn't mention about there is no game.
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:49.380
Phil: I'd certainly encourage someone to play that with a touch interface.
00:51:49.380 --> 00:51:53.380
Phil: Obviously, with a PC, you can just use your mouse as well.
00:51:53.380 --> 00:52:00.560
Phil: So with the Steam Deck, I'm using a combination of controls and touching it with my fingers.
00:52:01.780 --> 00:52:05.360
Phil: And then my wife came in and said, what are you playing?
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:07.660
Phil: Because I had it up on the big screen.
00:52:07.660 --> 00:52:17.000
Phil: Because it looks like someone got Microsoft Paint and who was about 16 years old and started drawing stuff.
00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:18.320
Tom: I think it looks great.
00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:21.920
Phil: I think it looks fantastic, but it does look like it was all made in Microsoft Paint.
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:26.800
Phil: And so she's like, I said it's a murder mystery thing.
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:30.680
Phil: So of course, all she's about is murder mysteries, books, TVs, whatever it is.
00:52:30.680 --> 00:52:34.460
Phil: If murder and mystery are not a part of it, she's not interested.
00:52:34.460 --> 00:52:39.880
Phil: So we sort of did some coach co-op with it, and a couch co-op rather.
00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:45.540
Phil: And she totally loves the game as well, which she is not a gamer.
00:52:47.120 --> 00:53:02.160
Phil: So I think because it is such a raw logical deduction experience, it's the sort of thing that someone who doesn't usually play video games, if they are of a certain bent, can pick up and have fun with.
00:53:02.160 --> 00:53:05.840
Phil: I'm disappointed that when I bought it on Steam, they had two.
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:10.120
Phil: They had one that was like 30 bucks, and they had one that was like 54 bucks.
00:53:10.120 --> 00:53:19.660
Phil: And based on the description, the 54-buck one was like Game of the Year edition, or it wasn't those words, but it was like, hey, this is a pretty one.
00:53:19.660 --> 00:53:20.580
Phil: It's got all the stuff.
00:53:20.580 --> 00:53:24.120
Phil: And I was like, yeah, I didn't know what all the stuff is.
00:53:24.120 --> 00:53:33.160
Phil: But then I put the base model, you go in and apparently it had two other expansions that are not included in the base model.
00:53:33.160 --> 00:53:36.660
Phil: And I'm sorry that I didn't get that now.
00:53:36.700 --> 00:53:41.160
Phil: So certainly when I buy the new game, I think I can still buy them separately though.
00:53:41.160 --> 00:53:41.780
Phil: Yeah, I can.
00:53:41.780 --> 00:53:45.220
Phil: But yeah, I've got to look into how much that's going to cost too.
00:53:45.220 --> 00:53:48.880
Tom: I think they're only $8.80 each.
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:50.140
Phil: Oh, fair enough.
00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.380
Phil: Yeah.
00:53:50.380 --> 00:53:52.280
Phil: Well, I'll definitely do that.
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:55.120
Phil: Will I do that right now?
00:53:55.120 --> 00:53:59.540
Phil: Will I do that before I buy the new game, The Rise of the Golden Idol set in the 70s?
00:53:59.540 --> 00:54:01.220
Phil: Don't know.
00:54:01.220 --> 00:54:07.080
Phil: If I buy those other two expansions, I might be sick of it by the time I get through all of those.
00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:07.600
Phil: But we'll see.
00:54:07.600 --> 00:54:09.800
Phil: We'll see how long this game goes for.
00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:16.260
Phil: So yeah, thank you for the recommendation and the inspiration to keep going when times were tough.
00:54:16.260 --> 00:54:23.200
Phil: I think I would tell anyone, this is not necessarily a point and click game.
00:54:23.200 --> 00:54:27.620
Phil: As Tom enumerated last week, it's an Obra Dinn ripoff.
00:54:27.620 --> 00:54:31.920
Phil: But I think this one has a lot more appeal than Obra Dinn.
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.880
Phil: They will certainly go back and give that one a try as well.
00:54:36.220 --> 00:54:44.780
Phil: So yeah, a very good recommendation and one that I'd certainly encourage people to give a try.
00:54:44.780 --> 00:54:47.440
Tom: Are you ready to give it a score, do you think?
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:50.300
Phil: I'll give you a score when I get to the very end of it.
00:54:50.300 --> 00:54:53.720
Phil: But right now, it'd be a nine, definitely.
00:54:55.160 --> 00:54:59.540
Phil: So I'm not going to give it an award for innovation.
00:54:59.540 --> 00:55:04.160
Phil: I'm giving it basically an award for execution, pardon the pun.
00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:06.320
Phil: The story is quite interesting as well.
00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:11.480
Phil: Now, I do have to say I have cheated in one aspect.
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:20.320
Phil: Every time I've successfully managed to identify everyone, I have broken out my smartphone and taken a screenshot of that because this is a continuum.
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:25.060
Phil: So there are characters that go from one scene to the next.
00:55:25.060 --> 00:55:28.200
Phil: It's a mystery that takes place over 40 years, I think.
00:55:28.200 --> 00:55:37.080
Tom: I believe I did mention one of the annoying things about the game was having to fill in the name of characters you already know the identity of.
00:55:37.080 --> 00:55:37.840
Phil: Yeah.
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:38.220
Phil: Yeah.
00:55:38.220 --> 00:55:41.900
Phil: And that was annoying, especially for the lesser characters.
00:55:41.900 --> 00:55:49.500
Phil: And especially because this does take place over 40 years, you'll see a character like Edmund Cloudsley as a young man.
00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:55.360
Phil: And then you might not recognize him in 15 years' time sort of thing.
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:59.820
Phil: But anyway, so yeah, so that's my experience with it.
00:56:01.080 --> 00:56:08.940
Tom: Well, from one puzzle game to the next, are you familiar with Blue Prince?
00:56:08.940 --> 00:56:13.420
Phil: I'm familiar with the artist formerly known as Prince.
00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:15.400
Tom: Wasn't he the Purple Prince?
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:16.940
Phil: He was indeed the Purple Prince.
00:56:17.560 --> 00:56:19.920
Tom: I'm talking about the Blue Prince.
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:22.920
Phil: The only thing I know about this game is that it's blown up.
00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:36.460
Phil: And it's immensely frustrating as someone who gets most of their news or reviews from podcasts because everyone says, this game is so great, but I can't tell you anything about it because it would be a spoiler.
00:56:36.460 --> 00:56:40.960
Phil: And it's like, okay, this is going to be my game of the year, but I can't tell you why.
00:56:42.180 --> 00:56:46.740
Tom: People actually said that because that doesn't make any, that doesn't make any fucking sense.
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:58.540
Tom: Do they normally, when they're talking about puzzle games, simply describe what the puzzle is and its solution?
00:57:00.200 --> 00:57:02.500
Phil: No, yeah, possibly.
00:57:02.500 --> 00:57:07.820
Tom: That's the only scenario in which I can imagine they wouldn't be able to say anything about the game.
00:57:08.420 --> 00:57:11.960
Phil: This is the same thing that happened to The Witness, Joe Blow's game.
00:57:13.700 --> 00:57:16.700
Phil: This game is so good, I can't talk about it.
00:57:16.780 --> 00:57:18.500
Phil: It's like, well, okay.
00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:25.220
Phil: This seems to be the puzzle adventure problem for people talking about your game.
00:57:25.220 --> 00:57:41.300
Tom: On that point as well, I think in my anti-chamber review, review of potentially the greatest puzzle game of all time, I in fact had an entire section describing a puzzle and the solution I came up for that puzzle.
00:57:41.860 --> 00:57:42.100
Phil: Yep.
00:57:42.100 --> 00:57:44.240
Phil: I almost remember it.
00:57:44.240 --> 00:57:45.500
Phil: There was nothing spoiled.
00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:49.000
Phil: There was nothing spoiled at all.
00:57:49.240 --> 00:57:50.580
Phil: You know what's weird?
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.180
Phil: Because I learn about games through podcasts.
00:57:54.180 --> 00:57:55.660
Phil: Just listening most of the time.
00:57:55.660 --> 00:58:00.160
Phil: That's how I usually find out about people's experience with a game.
00:58:00.160 --> 00:58:03.360
Phil: I always have this vision in my mind as to what the graphics are.
00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:10.300
Phil: When I saw the images of this game, I thought, this looks like the game you just mentioned.
00:58:11.640 --> 00:58:12.860
Phil: Anti-chamber.
00:58:13.820 --> 00:58:17.740
Phil: For listeners not familiar, you can search at our website gameunder.net.
00:58:17.740 --> 00:58:24.880
Phil: It's spelled anti, like A-N-T-I chamber, not anti-chamber, the room before a room.
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:27.880
Phil: Do you see where I'm coming from with that?
00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:30.160
Tom: Yep, definitely.
00:58:30.160 --> 00:58:33.600
Tom: One of the rooms in the game is the anti-chamber.
00:58:33.600 --> 00:58:39.020
Tom: One of the only permanent rooms, or one of the only permanent rooms, I think.
00:58:39.560 --> 00:58:50.080
Tom: So perhaps that is in fact referencing anti-chamber, because it didn't need to be an anti-chamber that was the passage from one room to the next.
00:58:50.080 --> 00:58:53.100
Tom: There are other types of rooms that can also serve that purpose.
00:58:53.100 --> 00:58:57.160
Tom: They might also have called it a vestibule for that matter.
00:58:57.180 --> 00:58:58.820
Phil: Or a foyer or something.
00:58:58.820 --> 00:59:02.900
Phil: Hey, now, I just want to frame this game for people who maybe haven't heard of it.
00:59:02.900 --> 00:59:14.880
Phil: Blue Prince is spelled Prince, like the artist formerly known as, not P-R-I-N-T-S, which obviously it's a wordplay of, when you go on to describe what this game is.
00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:17.600
Phil: It's a puzzle adventure game with roguelike elements.
00:59:17.600 --> 00:59:33.460
Phil: It's developed by, it's an indie game, it's developed by someone I've never heard of before called Dogu Bomb, and published by a publisher I've never heard of called Raw Fury, and released in April 10th for PlayStation 5, Windows and Xbox Series X and S.
00:59:33.460 --> 00:59:41.580
Phil: It's received critical acclaim with reviewers praising its intricate puzzle design, and compelling mystery and unique blend of rogue-like mechanics.
00:59:41.580 --> 00:59:44.900
Phil: So yeah, one aspect of this is it is a rogue-like.
00:59:44.900 --> 00:59:58.240
Phil: It's got complex problem-solving, immersive world-building and rewarding gameplay loop, and people have compared it to Return of the Obra Dinn and Outer Wilds, a game that you also, you loved Outer Wilds, didn't you?
00:59:58.240 --> 01:00:04.440
Tom: I think I played a little bit of it and didn't like it at all, so never continued.
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:09.760
Phil: Okay, because I bought it on the basis of your review, and I didn't like it at all either, because I found out-
01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:11.840
Tom: I don't think I've reviewed the Outer Wilds.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:12.400
Phil: We did.
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.100
Phil: We did a podcast on it, and it-
01:00:15.100 --> 01:00:16.540
Tom: I don't think so.
01:00:16.540 --> 01:00:19.700
Phil: Well, there's only one way to find out.
01:00:19.700 --> 01:00:20.800
Phil: The Outer Worlds-
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:22.460
Tom: Here's the typing.
01:00:22.460 --> 01:00:25.180
Phil: The Outer Wilds, not the Outer Wilds.
01:00:25.180 --> 01:00:26.380
Phil: Yeah.
01:00:26.380 --> 01:00:28.160
Phil: It's a Metroidvania, it's terrible.
01:00:28.220 --> 01:00:29.240
Phil: Absolutely terrible.
01:00:29.240 --> 01:00:31.560
Tom: Your search didn't match any results.
01:00:31.560 --> 01:00:33.100
Tom: Try a different search.
01:00:33.100 --> 01:00:33.820
Phil: Okay.
01:00:33.820 --> 01:00:34.320
Phil: All right.
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:39.140
Phil: Well, I'll get to the bottom of this because I bought it on the basis of your recommendation.
01:00:39.140 --> 01:00:39.540
Phil: Absolutely.
01:00:39.540 --> 01:00:43.180
Tom: You may be thinking of the Outer World, perhaps?
01:00:43.180 --> 01:00:44.900
Phil: Which one was that?
01:00:44.900 --> 01:00:45.700
Tom: That's not what it's called.
01:00:46.260 --> 01:00:50.240
Tom: That was an Obsidian RPG, the science fiction-
01:00:50.520 --> 01:00:55.600
Phil: No, the Outer Worlds is the RPG, and I bought that as well.
01:00:55.740 --> 01:00:57.900
Phil: I thought, yeah, Outer Wilds was your recommendation.
01:00:58.000 --> 01:00:58.980
Phil: Anyway, it doesn't matter to me.
01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:01.140
Tom: It definitely was not my recommendation.
01:01:01.140 --> 01:01:02.620
Phil: So here we go, Obra Dinn, man.
01:01:02.620 --> 01:01:05.400
Phil: It's getting a lot of rip-offs.
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:08.540
Phil: So I did not expect this game to look like it did at all.
01:01:08.540 --> 01:01:12.460
Phil: It's basically like a source engine game, right?
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:15.480
Tom: I don't know if it's a source.
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:16.360
Tom: Is it source engine?
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:16.980
Phil: I don't think so.
01:01:16.980 --> 01:01:20.660
Tom: I think it would be Unreal or Unity.
01:01:20.900 --> 01:01:23.120
Tom: These days Unreal, you would assume.
01:01:26.140 --> 01:01:27.540
Phil: Well, tell us about the game.
01:01:27.540 --> 01:01:36.400
Tom: Well, first, I have to preface my review by stating that I will be talking about the puzzles, which are the gameplay of the game.
01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:44.360
Tom: So if talking about gameplay is a spoiler for you, you shouldn't listen to these impressions.
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:49.880
Tom: I'll leave the gameplay to the end.
01:01:50.020 --> 01:01:53.100
Tom: Let's start off, in fact, not talking about the gameplay.
01:01:53.100 --> 01:01:59.920
Tom: Let's discuss this game as if speaking about gameplay was a spoiler.
01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:04.280
Tom: So as you'll note, the graphical style is cell shaded.
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:04.740
Phil: Right.
01:02:04.900 --> 01:02:11.640
Phil: I do want to say just we do have chapter markers in this show, so you will be able to skip the spoilers when we get to it.
01:02:11.640 --> 01:02:18.180
Phil: So just if you've got a modern podcast player, you just skip once you see a flag up a spoiler, okay?
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:28.660
Tom: I think it's set in the 1990s, if I recall correctly, probably just so that they could have CRT monitors in the game.
01:02:28.660 --> 01:02:43.040
Tom: That appears to be the only significance of that, given the older aesthetic to things, both fashion-wise in terms of the protagonist clothes and also the mansion.
01:02:43.040 --> 01:02:44.260
Tom: There is a mansion in the game.
01:02:44.380 --> 01:02:50.860
Tom: I won't mention what relationship the mansion bears to gameplay, but there is a mansion.
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:56.040
Tom: There's writing in the game, there's letters you can read.
01:02:56.040 --> 01:03:01.840
Tom: The letters, generally speaking, are not interesting to read in and of themselves.
01:03:03.060 --> 01:03:04.280
Tom: There's a plot.
01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:22.420
Tom: The story actually is that this player has received an inheritance, which is the mansion, but to be able to inherit the mansion, he has to perform a task, but because that task is related to the gameplay, I will unfortunately be unable to tell you what that task is.
01:03:24.540 --> 01:03:26.820
Tom: There is sound and music as well.
01:03:26.820 --> 01:03:38.820
Tom: I think the music, there's not much you can say about the music because the music also relates to the gameplay in the sense that it changes depending on what is occurring in the game.
01:03:38.820 --> 01:03:40.760
Tom: I can't really say much about the music either.
01:03:42.040 --> 01:03:49.020
Tom: But I can give you, I think, my editorial opinion on whether the game is good or not.
01:03:49.020 --> 01:03:50.920
Phil: What about the roguelike elements?
01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:53.000
Phil: I mean, that seems different.
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:54.420
Phil: Yeah.
01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:59.140
Tom: Roguelike elements are part of the game play, so unfortunately, I can't talk about those either.
01:03:59.140 --> 01:03:59.640
Phil: All right.
01:03:59.640 --> 01:04:03.340
Phil: Well, it seems like we should probably move into quote spoiler territory.
01:04:03.340 --> 01:04:06.140
Tom: I think we're ready to roll the die of destiny.
01:04:06.140 --> 01:04:06.880
Phil: There you go.
01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:07.980
Phil: No, you can't do that.
01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:13.360
Tom: So we're ready to head into spoiler territories, are we?
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:14.420
Phil: Yep.
01:04:14.420 --> 01:04:15.340
Tom: Okay.
01:04:15.340 --> 01:04:33.200
Tom: So essentially, the way the Roguelike element of the game's function is, as per the title, the house, there's an entry to the house that is the starting room, and around that room, there's a grid set of tiles.
01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:49.420
Tom: Each time you reach a doorway, this tile gets built into a room, and you have three randomly chosen rooms that you can turn the door you're opening into.
01:04:50.640 --> 01:05:06.600
Tom: So when I say randomly chosen, the way to think of it is you have a deck of cards, and the cards have a certain number of rooms in them of several different types, and three cards are taken from the deck, and you've got to choose one of them.
01:05:06.600 --> 01:05:27.480
Tom: So the Roguelike Element is basically a card game, and every day you have, I think it's 50 numbers of steps that you can explore the mansion with, and a step is used up every time you enter or exit a room, including backtracking.
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:41.720
Tom: So when those numbers of steps are used up, the day ends and all the rooms you've built disappear, and you start again from scratch, essentially.
01:05:43.120 --> 01:05:45.320
Phil: It sounds terrible.
01:05:45.320 --> 01:06:14.060
Tom: Now in terms of puzzle solving, the first two initial puzzles you'll encounter are a division, subtraction, multiplication, and addition puzzle, which takes place on a billiard board, where there's one to 20, and you can click on the numbers, one to 20, which will be the result of each equation, and you've just got to work out the equation, and that's one of the puzzles.
01:06:14.060 --> 01:06:18.320
Tom: Another puzzle is in a room where there are three locked cases.
01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:27.280
Tom: In one of the three locked cases, there are gems, and gems are used to be able to draft the better rooms in the game.
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.700
Tom: One of the boxes, sorry, up to two boxes can be telling the truth or a lie.
01:06:34.700 --> 01:06:49.200
Tom: They've got a message written on top of the box, which might be, just as an example, the blue box contains the gems, and the other box will say the blue box doesn't contain the gems, and another box will say both boxes are lying, something like that.
01:06:49.200 --> 01:06:53.100
Phil: Yeah, I think Shakespeare did something like that a few hundred years ago.
01:06:53.100 --> 01:06:55.880
Tom: It's Shakespearean writing in the game, you might say.
01:06:56.340 --> 01:07:02.120
Phil: Is there any puzzles where you rotate the tiles on a grid, so all the pipes are connected into a single group?
01:07:02.120 --> 01:07:08.260
Tom: There's a puzzle where you are rotating pipes to get pipes connected.
01:07:08.260 --> 01:07:09.440
Phil: You're kidding.
01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:10.640
Phil: No.
01:07:11.020 --> 01:07:13.600
Phil: Is there also where you have to drop three?
01:07:13.600 --> 01:07:24.380
Phil: There's three different colored gems that come from the top of the screen to the bottom, you've got to move them around, or align three pieces of candy that will then disappear to allow the other candy pieces to drop?
01:07:25.240 --> 01:07:26.440
Tom: No.
01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:29.460
Phil: There's a lost opportunity.
01:07:29.460 --> 01:07:30.920
Tom: Sadly not.
01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:33.220
Phil: This game sounds hack.
01:07:33.220 --> 01:07:55.980
Tom: We will continue, we will continue because outside of these enthralling puzzles, there are also, I think, much broader puzzles that you gradually find clues for throughout the house that relate to combining certain rooms to be able to do certain things.
01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:05.500
Tom: Those are vaguely more interesting than the minute-to-minute puzzle solving, which I think is horrendously bad.
01:08:05.500 --> 01:08:46.140
Tom: And due to the nature of the game where you repeatedly are running the mansion again and again and again to be trying to achieve certain goals, one of them being find the mysterious room that will allow you to take on your inheritance, you're constantly doing this shitty fucking subtraction division maths game, you're repeatedly doing this shitty fucking which box is lying or not game, an infinite number of times, and the maths puzzle gets progressively more and more difficult.
01:08:46.700 --> 01:08:56.080
Tom: It's not that it gets difficult to solve, it just becomes longer to solve because there are more steps in the maths equation.
01:08:57.380 --> 01:09:04.080
Phil: Well, is there at least, do you solve a puzzle by moving three matches to create five squares?
01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:06.680
Tom: I don't think so.
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:15.040
Tom: But there's a puzzle where you have the sliding tiles that you have to get in the correct order.
01:09:15.040 --> 01:09:16.420
Tom: So there's that puzzle.
01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:19.900
Phil: The subtraction division puzzle though.
01:09:19.900 --> 01:09:20.820
Phil: Yeah.
01:09:20.820 --> 01:09:24.000
Phil: You're saying that they do that more than once.
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:32.560
Tom: You have to do that every single time you do a run, if you want to get the prize that is hidden behind it, which you probably will.
01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:36.100
Tom: Because it's usually keys which you need.
01:09:36.100 --> 01:09:54.040
Phil: So when you do a run, let's just say you're starting a run through this mansion, and you go to the door on your left, is it always going to be the blue room where you're doing the pipe puzzle or do they change where the rooms are every time?
01:09:54.040 --> 01:09:55.520
Tom: No.
01:09:55.520 --> 01:10:14.740
Tom: There are three permanent rooms in the mansion that I'm aware of anyway, which is the foyer, the antechamber, and you unlock another floor known as the foundation, which you can stick into certain place in the mansion of your choosing.
01:10:14.740 --> 01:10:17.200
Tom: Those are the only three permanent rooms.
01:10:17.200 --> 01:10:17.520
Phil: Okay.
01:10:17.520 --> 01:10:32.380
Phil: So second question, if there is a blue room with a goose in it, a goose doll, it may not always be the first door on the left, but will you run into that same room in a different run, in a different place and it will have the same puzzle in it?
01:10:32.380 --> 01:10:33.240
Tom: Yes.
01:10:33.240 --> 01:10:33.540
Phil: Okay.
01:10:33.540 --> 01:10:38.140
Phil: So the rooms themselves, you walk into the room and go, ah, this is the goose room.
01:10:38.140 --> 01:10:40.660
Phil: I know how to do this puzzle.
01:10:40.660 --> 01:10:41.480
Tom: Yes.
01:10:41.480 --> 01:10:42.460
Phil: Okay.
01:10:42.460 --> 01:10:45.560
Phil: So there's a certain number of rooms.
01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:57.020
Phil: So obviously as you do run after run after run, you're going to get better at it because you're going to, basically, you'll be more familiar with the rooms and you'll come across rooms that you haven't seen before and you'll have to figure them out.
01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:01.320
Phil: So how do they limit the run?
01:11:02.780 --> 01:11:05.280
Phil: Is it a time limit or is it the number of rooms you go in?
01:11:05.280 --> 01:11:07.360
Tom: The number of steps you have.
01:11:07.360 --> 01:11:08.660
Phil: Number of steps?
01:11:08.660 --> 01:11:09.740
Tom: Yeah.
01:11:09.740 --> 01:11:12.900
Phil: So how many steps do you take in a room?
01:11:12.900 --> 01:11:14.020
Tom: One step.
01:11:14.020 --> 01:11:14.540
Phil: Oh, okay.
01:11:14.980 --> 01:11:16.720
Phil: So it is the number of rooms.
01:11:18.920 --> 01:11:19.720
Phil: Yes.
01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:28.280
Phil: But if you're trying to find all of the rooms, and they limit the number of rooms you can visit, how do you do that?
01:11:28.280 --> 01:11:29.900
Phil: How do you get through that?
01:11:31.140 --> 01:11:35.620
Tom: Well, the other thing that's occurring is there are permanent upgrades you can get.
01:11:35.620 --> 01:11:43.540
Tom: So most generally speaking, most of the items and so on are limited to the run you are in.
01:11:43.540 --> 01:11:52.380
Tom: But as you were going along, you find inheritance tokens which give you coins that you start the day with.
01:11:53.560 --> 01:12:06.680
Tom: You unlock outside of the mansion, there are more permanent rooms that you're able to unlock, which give you other things like more steps to start the day with, and gems that you start the day with, things like that.
01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:07.960
Tom: So there are permanent upgrades.
01:12:07.960 --> 01:12:18.200
Tom: Additionally, you find upgrade disks in the game, which if you also find a computer to, you can then permanently upgrade certain types of rooms.
01:12:18.200 --> 01:12:26.260
Tom: You also discover new types of rooms, which are permanently added to your deck of rooms as well.
01:12:26.260 --> 01:12:37.360
Tom: So as you were going along, you are unlocking things that allow you to explore longer and more easily each day.
01:12:37.360 --> 01:12:46.860
Phil: So the fact that you're able, this has been described as a rogue-like, but it's actually a rogue-like, because you get to keep your upgrades, basically.
01:12:46.860 --> 01:12:48.640
Tom: Only some of them.
01:12:50.300 --> 01:13:07.900
Phil: Well, now, you've described to me, I said it sounds pretty hack, the puzzle sound hack as, and I mean, I like the overall conceit of the game, but the day-to-day playing of it, I mean, it must be pretty good if people are saying it's going to be the game of the year.
01:13:07.900 --> 01:13:09.000
Phil: It must be a pretty good hook.
01:13:11.280 --> 01:13:17.380
Tom: Well, here's the thing with roguelikes and the structure of a roguelike.
01:13:17.380 --> 01:13:30.980
Tom: The thing that is addictive about gambling and most forms of addiction in general anyway, is not reinforcement, but the possibility of reinforcement.
01:13:30.980 --> 01:13:42.340
Tom: So if you add a randomizing element to a game, you are automatically making it enjoyable whether the game is fucking stupid or not.
01:13:42.340 --> 01:13:48.600
Phil: That's a good point that I've never heard of before because people call this, well, just one more run game.
01:13:49.700 --> 01:13:55.620
Phil: But what they're talking about is, let me just put one more dollar into the slot machine.
01:13:55.620 --> 01:13:57.460
Phil: Just one more and maybe I'll win.
01:13:57.460 --> 01:13:59.460
Phil: Just one more, maybe I can do better.
01:13:59.460 --> 01:14:11.300
Phil: Now see, I haven't had much experience with roguelikes other than like Slay the Spire and another game I've been playing recently as well, which I completely like.
01:14:11.300 --> 01:14:16.660
Phil: But I don't have that gambling dopamine release.
01:14:16.860 --> 01:14:20.120
Phil: I'm playing it because I liked Magic the Gathering.
01:14:20.740 --> 01:14:27.320
Phil: When I don't win at Magic the Gathering, I'm not like, oh, let's just go one more round because I've got to win.
01:14:27.320 --> 01:14:29.820
Phil: I like it because I like it.
01:14:29.820 --> 01:14:31.500
Phil: When I'm done with it, I just put it down.
01:14:31.500 --> 01:14:33.860
Phil: Like Bellatro, there's another one that I've gotten into.
01:14:38.360 --> 01:14:52.140
Phil: That hook doesn't appeal to my personality, though it's starting to make sense now why people say all the fantastic things they say about Slay the Spire, and Bellatro, and now Blue Prince.
01:14:53.380 --> 01:15:05.000
Phil: This is the next iteration, or this is the next thing to come along that reminds them of those two other games which have had tremendous critical response.
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:07.900
Phil: Yeah, okay, so these people are basically gambling addicts.
01:15:09.300 --> 01:15:14.940
Tom: That's the only reason I can justify the love for the game.
01:15:14.940 --> 01:15:19.600
Phil: If you think about it, what does every gambler think when they're playing something?
01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:23.640
Phil: They think that they're learning something that will help them the next time around, right?
01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:24.180
Phil: Yeah.
01:15:24.180 --> 01:15:27.920
Phil: So if you're going into a room going, oh yeah, the blue room, I know how to solve this puzzle.
01:15:28.660 --> 01:15:31.260
Phil: This will help me win.
01:15:31.260 --> 01:15:33.560
Phil: It's kicking into that same thing.
01:15:33.560 --> 01:15:37.300
Phil: Dumb people who play blackjack, don't just sit there and enjoy it.
01:15:37.300 --> 01:15:39.240
Phil: They go, oh yeah.
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:44.800
Phil: I think this next time around, okay, yep, I've learned from my mistake.
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:47.680
Phil: I'll do better next time.
01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:48.720
Phil: That's interesting.
01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:49.660
Phil: That's interesting.
01:15:49.660 --> 01:15:58.640
Phil: I've never drawn the link between rogue likes and the dopamine of gambling addiction.
01:15:58.640 --> 01:16:00.220
Phil: That's fantastic.
01:16:00.460 --> 01:16:01.980
Phil: Good point, man.
01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:15.020
Tom: The other issue I would add with having a structure like this is, even if it does give you that enjoyment, is there are better puzzles than the ones I've described.
01:16:16.480 --> 01:16:42.960
Tom: The problem is, for me anyway, if I encountered a better puzzle due to the other thing that this implies which is the feeling of scarcity, some of the times I could be bothered solving it, some of the times I couldn't be bothered solving it because I know, I'm not going to get this fucking room or this combination of rooms again for who knows how the fuck along.
01:16:43.460 --> 01:16:54.320
Tom: I'm just going to look up how to do it because I can't be bothered wasting another two hours just to get back to this thing when I figured out what the solution was.
01:16:54.320 --> 01:16:55.280
Phil: Yeah.
01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:08.560
Tom: It's a structure that to me is just totally anti-ethical to making a interesting or enjoyable puzzle-solving experience.
01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:11.100
Phil: Or you could say antithetical, in fact.
01:17:12.480 --> 01:17:13.180
Tom: Indeed.
01:17:13.180 --> 01:17:14.300
Phil: Yeah.
01:17:14.300 --> 01:17:24.200
Phil: Like I always say, once you go into the Internet for every puzzle or for any puzzle in a game, it's kind of like, are you playing the game or is the game playing you?
01:17:24.200 --> 01:17:27.220
Phil: And that's when I just put it away.
01:17:27.220 --> 01:17:33.620
Phil: Now, I've recently started using a notebook for games like this, like when I was playing Spiritfarer.
01:17:33.620 --> 01:17:43.700
Phil: And the game that we were just talking about, the Golden Idol, the Case of the Golden Idol, I thought, oh yeah, I'll have to break out the notebook for this.
01:17:43.700 --> 01:17:49.140
Phil: But you don't because of the tools they provide you are all there sort of thing.
01:17:49.140 --> 01:17:51.880
Phil: You don't have to remember, oh, this guy was that or that guy was this.
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:55.920
Phil: So people are describing this as a notebook game.
01:17:56.380 --> 01:17:58.220
Phil: It sounds tiresome to me.
01:17:58.220 --> 01:18:05.500
Phil: But now that you've explained the gambling addiction components of it, that makes all the sense in the world.
01:18:05.500 --> 01:18:14.240
Phil: The only thing I'm disappointed with the developer is that they didn't involve some sort of pay-to-win microtransactions.
01:18:15.860 --> 01:18:18.280
Phil: That would have been pretty good.
01:18:18.460 --> 01:18:25.440
Phil: I'd like to see Joe Blow, who apparently put all the money he made from Bastian, not Bastian.
01:18:25.440 --> 01:18:26.760
Tom: Braid.
01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:34.700
Phil: Braid into The Witness, and then The Witness was critically well-received and commercially well-received, but apparently still not good enough for what he was doing.
01:18:37.120 --> 01:18:48.100
Phil: I'd like to see him revisit, like come back to Witness, but include these kinds of elements where people go, oh, this is too hard.
01:18:48.100 --> 01:18:53.400
Phil: Just click here and there's a loot box, and there's a pretty good chance that you'll get the solution.
01:18:53.400 --> 01:18:56.820
Phil: If you have the right sound effects, people will do it.
01:18:56.880 --> 01:19:17.920
Phil: If you have those Poker Machine sound effects, I've seen my own daughter playing Candy Crush, or even Pac-Man Champion Edition, which she also loves because it's got that Pachinko soundtrack going on with sound effects and fireworks, and that's all she needs.
01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:20.240
Phil: It's like, yeah, I'll get through this level.
01:19:20.280 --> 01:19:21.120
Phil: I get fireworks.
01:19:21.120 --> 01:19:22.420
Phil: I got fireworks.
01:19:23.800 --> 01:19:26.340
Phil: My daughter doesn't sound like that, obviously.
01:19:27.380 --> 01:19:28.980
Phil: But yeah, right.
01:19:28.980 --> 01:19:35.520
Phil: So it sounds like you're more up on this game than I am.
01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:39.280
Tom: I'm very much not up on the game, I would say.
01:19:39.280 --> 01:19:48.600
Tom: I've got to talk about two more puzzles and how my playing of the game ended, which was very poetic indeed.
01:19:49.800 --> 01:20:05.160
Tom: An example of one of the more complex puzzles, which again, I think goes to show, it is a notebook-taking game, but not so much a puzzle game in a sense.
01:20:08.020 --> 01:20:20.620
Tom: So one of the permanent upgrades to the mansion you get is there, it unlocks an area where every day you can draft a room that gives you a bonus.
01:20:20.620 --> 01:20:30.300
Tom: So one of these rooms opens out into an underground tomb, where there are a series of statues.
01:20:30.300 --> 01:20:40.960
Tom: And if you open the series of statues in a certain order, they let you open another door, which takes you to another area.
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:55.600
Tom: To work out what order the statues are opened in, you look at the church in the mansion, which has the statues with Roman numerals next to them.
01:20:55.640 --> 01:21:01.680
Tom: So the puzzle is essentially just noticing that the statues are there and that they've got a number against them.
01:21:01.680 --> 01:21:03.840
Tom: Thus, you open them in a certain order.
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:06.660
Tom: So that's an example of one of the more complicated puzzles in the game.
01:21:06.660 --> 01:21:11.860
Tom: It's still not, I would say, a particularly interesting puzzle.
01:21:11.860 --> 01:21:18.580
Tom: Now, here's my major issue with the game, which just annoyed me throughout my playthrough.
01:21:18.580 --> 01:21:20.220
Tom: So I went through there.
01:21:20.220 --> 01:21:22.780
Tom: I went to the new area.
01:21:22.780 --> 01:21:24.320
Tom: There was something I could move in that area.
01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:30.580
Tom: I moved it a bit, not all the way, didn't know what to do with it, so then left.
01:21:30.580 --> 01:21:40.580
Tom: Turns out at the end of the game, you've got to go to not that area, but you from the house end up in that area.
01:21:40.580 --> 01:21:44.160
Tom: If you haven't moved that thing, you're stuck.
01:21:44.160 --> 01:22:11.040
Tom: So after finally getting to nearly the end of the game, I discovered I had to move this fucking piece of shit thing and hadn't done it, which meant I would have to, before getting back to the place I had been, which was relying again on a reasonable amount of luck, get that other ****ing room, go back to it and move the ****ing thing.
01:22:11.040 --> 01:22:17.340
Tom: So I thought, okay, I'm basically at the end of the game, I may as well do this.
01:22:17.340 --> 01:22:20.160
Tom: I open the game the next morning to play it.
01:22:20.820 --> 01:22:23.740
Tom: I get distracted by a YouTube video.
01:22:23.740 --> 01:22:26.820
Tom: The game's on in the background at the main menu.
01:22:26.820 --> 01:22:32.460
Tom: All of a sudden, the screen turns black and the intro begins playing.
01:22:33.580 --> 01:22:39.540
Tom: I go back to the game, I skip the intro, I'm at day one.
01:22:39.540 --> 01:22:42.640
Tom: I quit, I go to the main menu.
01:22:42.640 --> 01:22:46.380
Tom: The only option is new game back to day one again.
01:22:47.700 --> 01:23:01.500
Tom: So in the most brilliant moment of RNG, my save was overwritten when I was at the end of the game through completely inexplicable circumstances.
01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:08.760
Phil: Are you sure it wasn't like a pretense that the game is put up?
01:23:08.940 --> 01:23:11.700
Tom: I don't know because what do you mean?
01:23:11.900 --> 01:23:13.580
Tom: If you leave it on the main menu.
01:23:13.580 --> 01:23:14.780
Phil: You're sure it's not part of the game?
01:23:15.820 --> 01:23:17.480
Tom: I don't think it's part of the game.
01:23:17.480 --> 01:23:18.320
Phil: Okay.
01:23:18.320 --> 01:23:22.840
Phil: You don't think that they do the thing where you just got to the end of the game, but you haven't quite finished it.
01:23:22.840 --> 01:23:27.120
Phil: Now, the next time you go in, now they're going to pretend the game.
01:23:27.120 --> 01:23:28.340
Tom: I don't think so.
01:23:28.340 --> 01:23:28.560
Phil: Yeah.
01:23:28.560 --> 01:23:28.860
Phil: Okay.
01:23:28.860 --> 01:23:39.560
Tom: But if it was, I give them credit because I thought it was absolutely hilarious and the perfect note to end my Blue Prince experience on.
01:23:40.540 --> 01:23:45.800
Phil: I've got to tell you my long experience of playing games for review.
01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:58.120
Phil: Nothing pleases me more than when I get to the end of a tedious game and there's a glitch that gives me the ability to say, well, I couldn't finish it, so because of this glitch, I'm out.
01:23:58.120 --> 01:23:59.100
Tom: Exactly.
01:23:59.100 --> 01:23:59.400
Phil: Yeah.
01:23:59.660 --> 01:24:00.580
Phil: It's a good out.
01:24:00.580 --> 01:24:02.720
Phil: It was a beautiful moment.
01:24:02.720 --> 01:24:05.420
Phil: Any other points before you give this one a score?
01:24:05.420 --> 01:24:06.660
Tom: I don't think so.
01:24:06.700 --> 01:24:09.380
Tom: I think I'm ready for the Diode Destiny to roll.
01:24:09.380 --> 01:24:14.920
Phil: I am not going to use the Minifog on this one unless it is in extreme need of correction.
01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:18.040
Phil: So give it a roll.
01:24:18.040 --> 01:24:20.280
Tom: Gets a nine out of 10.
01:24:20.280 --> 01:24:20.680
Phil: Okay.
01:24:20.680 --> 01:24:23.320
Phil: I'm breaking out the Minifog.
01:24:23.320 --> 01:24:25.580
Phil: No, you're not walking out of here with a nine.
01:24:25.580 --> 01:24:26.860
Phil: No, no.
01:24:29.740 --> 01:24:34.300
Phil: This game got a two out of 10 according to the Minifog of correction.
01:24:34.660 --> 01:24:38.280
Tom: So it's just as good as the Oblivion Remaster.
01:24:38.280 --> 01:24:39.000
Phil: Oh, come on now.
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:41.220
Tom: At this stage.
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:42.740
Phil: Not quite.
01:24:42.740 --> 01:24:43.100
Phil: Okay.
01:24:43.100 --> 01:24:46.820
Phil: Well, that's going to close out this episode of The Game Under Podcast.
01:24:46.820 --> 01:24:51.160
Phil: We've been talking about video games online since 2009.
01:24:51.160 --> 01:24:53.020
Phil: We've had the website since 2013.
01:24:53.020 --> 01:24:54.280
Phil: So there's a lot of resource.
01:24:54.280 --> 01:24:55.680
Tom: That's our slogan, I believe.
01:24:55.680 --> 01:25:00.740
Tom: We've been talking about video games online since 2009.
01:25:00.820 --> 01:25:07.060
Phil: Yeah, it's got some legs and it reflects our level of literary accomplishment.
01:25:08.180 --> 01:25:11.440
Phil: The website has been up since 2013 and it's full of resources.
01:25:11.440 --> 01:25:17.800
Phil: So visit gameunder.net if you'd like to listen to back issues or look at our reviews up there.
01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:22.580
Phil: Or if you'd like to submit a question, just punch in a question on the comment section on their homepage.
01:25:22.580 --> 01:25:23.900
Phil: That is the front page.
01:25:23.900 --> 01:25:27.920
Phil: Thanks again for listening to 100 and.
01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:31.540
Phil: Thanks for listening to episode 170 of The Game Under Podcast.
01:25:31.540 --> 01:25:34.800
Phil: I am Phil Fogg.
01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:35.640
Tom: I'm Tom Towers.