Game Under Podcast 145

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0:00:08 Introduction

0:00:50 Play Magazine's 100 Top Playstation Games

0:13:58 Tom's Top Five Games of All Time

0:22:03 Phil's Top Five Games of All Time (from 2009)

0:24:51 Bayonetta 3

0:33:00 Omori

0:45:00 Jeff Gerstmann giantbomb.gone

0:51:23 GTA 6

0:59:55 Wandersong

1:11:37 Oculus Quest 2

Transcript:
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined as always by, you could potentially call me co-host if you're being generous, Phil Fogg.

Phil: Hey everybody, it's Phil Fogg.

Phil: Back from long COVID and super flu, I have been the reason why we have not been recording.

Phil: It's not on Tom, but it's good to be back.

Tom: It never is.

Tom: I'm a professional.

Tom: I think we have it on record that I did not let some pathetic virus stop us from recording.

Phil: No, no, but at least I got the fever with the super flu.

Phil: But my voice is now almost fully restored and I'm back.

Phil: And I remember in our last episode, we talked about Play Magazine, the Australian version of Play Magazine, which has been around in the UK forever.

Phil: And I gave it, how would you describe my critique of it?

Tom: I can't recall it.

Phil: It was pretty fair handed.

Tom: Not memorable, I would say, very forgettable critique.

Phil: Okay, well, I thought it was pretty good.

Phil: I mean, I thought it was pretty good.

Phil: I think the content was great and all the rest of it.

Phil: So I get the second, what do you say, episode, the second issue of the magazine, because it's the last magazine in Australia.

Phil: Like I went into a massive news agency magazine store the other day, and they basically had Retro Gamer and Play Australia, and that was it in the gaming category.

Phil: I know I complain about this every time, but it's, you know, obviously magazines are dead.

Phil: Now, I've just got to say though, my love for Play, or my, at least, you know, tolerance for Play has-

Phil: Hasn't subsided, they've just listed the greatest PlayStation games of all time.

Phil: And this is where I basically am like, okay, I'm not gonna, it's now gone from me subscribing to supporting a magazine to, okay, I'll pick this up if I'm interested in what's on the cover.

Tom: I just say, I see why I've forgotten your play impressions because you just said that your toleration for playing magazine has not yet subsided, very strong impressions.

Phil: Okay, so anyway, they've put out this top list, right?

Phil: So I'm not gonna go into lists, like I don't, lists are lists, but there are lists that are so bad where you've got to call into question the judgment of the person making the list to the point where I now can't, like, I can't read anything that you write because I can't trust you anymore.

Phil: Just pick a game, for example, Eko, right?

Phil: So Eko, you like that game?

Phil: Would you like to know where in the pantheon of the greatest PlayStation games of all time, Eko falls?

Phil: Like top bottom half?

Tom: I assume top five.

Phil: Top five, that's what, okay, that's a reasonable assumption.

Phil: I mean, it was a breakthrough game.

Phil: Yes, it is not on the top Tom.

Tom: Not on the top at all?

Phil: It is not on the top

Phil: If you'd like to know where it was pipped at the post, was Hotline Miami, which is not even a PlayStation exclusive.

Tom: Hotline Miami is a pretty good game, though.

Phil: It is a pretty good game.

Phil: Is it better than Eko?

Tom: No.

Phil: No, objectively.

Tom: But I would say, I would say that is one of the few games I would say is up there with it.

Tom: But I think Hotline Miami is more so, I think it has more games that it builds upon than Eko does.

Phil: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Phil: But still, I mean, Eko, how can Eko not be on the top ?

Phil: Like, even if they gave it...

Tom: Flabbergasting.

Phil: Flabbergasting.

Phil: Vanquish.

Phil: Where do you think Vanquish is?

Tom: I'm going to guess it's not on there.

Phil: Oh,

Phil: It is the th best game.

Phil: And it...

Tom: Well, I think it made my top five third-person shooters of all time.

Phil: Just to give you an idea, Crash Bandicoot Insane Trilogy, which is a re-release of the Crash Bandicoot, you know, it's Crash Bandicoot Collection

Tom: So they didn't even have the density to pick one of the original Crash Bandicoots.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: Yakuza was the only entry in here, starting with Yakuza, and it came in at number

Phil: We'll cut to the chase.

Phil: We'll just get down to, what do you want, the top five or top ?

Tom: Let's do the top

Phil: Okay, top starting at

Phil: Disco Elysium.

Tom: I'm yet to play it, but I have heard good things.

Phil: I've heard good things.

Tom: People do hold it in that level of esteem, pretty much.

Tom: I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Phil: I wouldn't disagree with that on the basis of what I've heard of it, and I do want to play it.

Phil: Again, not a PlayStation exclusive, you think for the top yeah.

Phil: Number nine, Red Dead Redemption which would not, which I played it to the end.

Phil: It's okay.

Phil: I don't think it would make my top

Tom: I think the original would be a better pick.

Phil: Definitely, yeah.

Phil: Oh, who knows?

Phil: It might be higher in the list.

Tom: I hope not.

Phil: The original Metal Gear Solid for PlayStation

Tom: I think that's acceptable.

Phil: Number eight, and I'm actually, I'm playing the original Metal Gear Solid.

Phil: I've got it like in a few different formats, and I'm actually playing it, the original game on the original hardware.

Phil: Number seven, God of War, the original.

Tom: No.

Tom: Just simply no.

Phil: No, I maybe consider one of the sequels in here, but not the original.

Tom: I wouldn't say top

Phil: Yeah, probably not either.

Tom: Top top I'd accept.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Shadow of the Colossus.

Phil: Okay, so this is the first where you go, okay, all right.

Phil: Well, Shadow of...

Tom: Well, I knew that was gonna be there when ECO wasn't.

Phil: Yeah, Shadow of the Colossus, number six, Final Fantasy number five.

Tom: Are they serious?

Tom: Final Fantasy

Phil: Final Fantasy

Phil: As the fifth best PlayStation game of all time.

Tom: So I assume the next five games are all gonna be Final Fantasies.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: I'll just give you their justification, not just notable for returning to the iconic setting of Evolus.

Phil: This ambitious JRPG also remembered for how much it switched up, and that innovation echoes through the series to this day.

Phil: Random encounters are out, replaced by always on screen enemies who will give chase if you draw their attention.

Tom: Yes, they turn it into an MMORPG without any other players.

Phil: Okay, well, now is serious, right?

Phil: I mean, these are the big four now.

Phil: Number four, the last of his part two.

Tom: The second one?

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Tom: Well, I can't comment on the second one, but...

Tom: I can.

Phil: I'm playing it right now.

Phil: But we'll save it.

Tom: As we're recording, no less.

Phil: Yeah, we'll save that for another day.

Phil: Number three, the Witcher

Tom: As the best PlayStation game?

Phil: As the third best experience you can have on a PlayStation.

Tom: I would question that.

Tom: Well, now it's been patched okay, but to begin with, it was not a very good experience on a PlayStation.

Tom: I'll just say that much.

Phil: No, not at all.

Phil: And also, you can play The Witcher on a pocket calculator if they still made pocket calculators.

Phil: You don't think Witcher I'd probably go, okay, well, PC.

Phil: I mean, that's the first...

Tom: If it's associated with a platform, it is only the PC.

Phil: Yeah, and you can play it on the Switch right now.

Phil: I mean, I own it for a couple of different formats.

Phil: It's a decent-ish game, but it hasn't really gripped me.

Phil: I can see myself playing.

Phil: Like, if it was the only game I had, I could see myself playing it for like hours or something.

Phil: Okay, so it leaves it down to number and

Phil: Do you want to guess?

Phil: Because, you know...

Tom: As I said, it must be Final Fantasy game.

Tom: So I'm going to go with Final Fantasy IX.

Phil: Okay, number is the worst Uncharted game released.

Phil: Uncharted A Thief's End.

Tom: Are you serious?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Uncharted

Phil: The worst one.

Phil: The worst one.

Tom: Oh my god.

Phil: Uncharted would not make my top video games, let alone...

Phil: It would make my top PlayStation.

Tom: It would make my possibly bottom games of all time.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And number we're not probably both going to have a lot of comment on because neither of us have played it.

Tom: It is a PlayStation.

Phil: It is a PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: And it is Bloodborne.

Tom: Interesting number choice.

Tom: I think I can accept that.

Tom: I can accept that.

Phil: I can accept it.

Phil: It is a PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: And I would have said, oh, recency bias.

Phil: But now that I look at it, it was released years ago.

Phil: Can you believe that?

Phil: It was released in

Phil: If someone had asked me when was Bloodborne released, I probably would have said years ago.

Phil: But that's, yeah.

Phil: So having gone through their top I'd love to be able to tell you, Overwatch is on here at

Phil: Assassin's Creed is number for crying out loud.

Phil: It's just a bad list.

Tom: Did they choose which games from which series at random?

Phil: No, I think they would have taken a game.

Phil: Well, I did read it, and basically they did cheat.

Phil: Wherever there was a collection, they used a collection for the most part.

Phil: And then if there was a game that they had in multiple games, they picked the one.

Phil: Like Yakuza is the one that they thought was the best out of the Yakuza.

Tom: But they thought Uncharted was the best Uncharted.

Phil: Yeah, incredibly.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Give them credit.

Phil: I mean, Life is Strange is on the list.

Phil: Again, not a PlayStation exclusive.

Tom: Not a great PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: Yeah,

Phil: Hitman at

Phil: So yeah, just there you go.

Phil: Play Australia magazine.

Phil: Poor list, but probably not.

Phil: And do I have anything else to say about that?

Phil: Like that does shoot their credibility down, right?

Tom: I am impressed by it.

Tom: I think they're trying to copy musical lists on the internet in magazines from Rolling Stone that pick things deliberately, controversially to get clicks.

Tom: But I don't think that works as well in an area like games.

Phil: Or magazines.

Phil: I've tried clicking on it.

Phil: It doesn't do anything.

Phil: I've already paid for it.

Tom: Well, all magazines that have any legitimacy are all online now anyway.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So why do you say clickbait list relating to video games wouldn't work?

Tom: Because I think in games, game fans are usually much more into creating their own lists, but not just creating their own lists, also discussing what games are good or not.

Tom: So what games are considered good and what games aren't considered good is much less not subjective, but much less disputed in games.

Tom: Whereas in music, you have music enthusiasts who will be infuriated and pissed off about these magazine lists, but the average music listener will read through it and not necessarily bat an eyelid.

Tom: Whereas in games, I don't think there's as much crossover in people reading websites between enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts.

Tom: And so just for example, in music enthusiasts, these days are probably not actually reading Rolling Stone.

Tom: But when they see Rolling Stone has said something positive about a group that they hate, they'll then pay attention to Rolling Stone.

Tom: Whereas the casual music listener may be already reading Rolling Stone.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I haven't read Rolling Stone in probably years.

Phil: I'm going to be mailing you a copy of not this magazine, but the Gamer's Choice Awards magazine of the American magazine Electronic Gaming Monthly.

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: Featured the first shots of Gran Turismo

Phil: And so you can have a look at their own selection of their own list.

Tom: That's a game that should probably have been in the top in front of quite a few others.

Phil: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Phil: I mean, I don't even know where Gran Turismo is on any of these lists.

Phil: So in any case, I'll send this over to you and you can have that.

Phil: It is yours to keep.

Phil: Just as you sent me a copy of Hypermagazine from...

Phil: What year was it?

Phil: Some time ago, October

Phil: So this is a -year-old magazine that you've sent me.

Phil: And in revenge, I'm going to be sending you a -year-old gaming magazine.

Tom: You had to beat me.

Phil: Yep, absolutely.

Phil: Okay, so with that, do you want to get into your worst list or should we get into some of the news?

Tom: Well, we may as well get into my superior top five.

Phil: Yes, so you put together your own top five, this was last week or something, and I found it on the internet.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Do you want to just start from number five?

Tom: Yeah, I'll begin with number five, The Last Express.

Phil: The Last Express, that's a video game based on a movie with CGI Tom Hanks in it, if I'm not mistaken.

Tom: No, it does not feature CGI Tom Hanks, nor is it based on a movie.

Tom: It is a rotoscoped adventure game.

Phil: Oh, OK, because I have played The Last Express, which is the video game based on the Tom Hanks movie, on the PSP no less.

Phil: So you can just imagine how wonderful it was.

Tom: I don't think that's the same game.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: So The Last Express, when is that?

Phil: Is that a Jordan Mechner game?

Tom: That is indeed a Jordan Mechner game.

Phil: And was it any good?

Phil: Well, obviously, it's your fifth best game of all time.

Tom: It was not only good, it was the fifth best game of all time, I think you'll find.

Phil: Okay, anything else to say about The Last Express?

Tom: I think when you hear rotoscoped adventure game, you already know the quality and you don't need to say anything else.

Tom: But we do talk about things like The Last of Us with its innovative, amazing acting.

Tom: And I would argue that the acting in The Last Express is of a superior level of quality.

Phil: Well, Jordan Mechner did fancy himself as a scriptwriter, or a screenwriter.

Phil: Yeah, I read his autobiography.

Phil: It's not a bad read.

Phil: It's not a good read, but it's not a bad read.

Tom: How is it as a screenplay?

Phil: Terrible.

Phil: Absolutely terrible.

Tom: He didn't quite fulfill his ambitions then.

Tom: Number four is Daytona USA.

Phil: Okay, and is it like a walking sim through the streets of Florida?

Tom: It's a racing sim through the racetrack of Daytona.

Phil: Okay, you're talking about Daytona Sega's arcade game?

Tom: That's right.

Phil: That was also released on the Sega Saturn.

Phil: Yeah, and it's got that.

Tom: Dreamcast and PlayStation may even have made the top play games of all time.

Phil: I love NASCAR video games.

Phil: I played a game that I got at Walmart for like $one Sunday morning called Dirt to Daytona.

Phil: And it is a career sim and it is fantastic.

Phil: And I played one of the EA Daytona games on, I think the Thunder series on the PSP and it's fantastic.

Phil: And I just love it.

Phil: I just love the size, like the pack, you know, you've got other cars out there or whatever.

Phil: I love it.

Phil: I love every aspect of it.

Tom: And number is a Final Fantasy.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: It's not Final Fantasy though.

Phil: Final Fantasy

Tom: Final Fantasy

Phil: ?

Tom:

Phil: Really?

Phil: Really?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: On the original hardware PlayStation?

Tom: I played it on PC actually.

Phil: I've never successfully gotten very far out of the college tutorial component of it.

Phil: So you've obviously beaten it if it's your third best game.

Tom: The Final Fantasy XII and X are the only two Final Fantasies I've beaten actually.

Phil: See, I've beat one through seven and then got stalled at eight.

Phil: I've tried Final Fantasy X a few times.

Phil: I've tried Final Fantasy XV is probably the one that took the most, but I just don't have the time to play it.

Phil: But I actually kind of enjoyed Final Fantasy XV.

Phil: So, okay, so you really actually liked Final Fantasy VIII?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Tom: I think it's ahead of its time as well.

Tom: We've since then seen in the West, Western video game players taking up quirky Japanese school settings in games.

Tom: And I think this was probably the first instance of that being successful in the West.

Tom: So I think it was ahead of its time.

Phil: Like Danganronpa and Persona.

Phil: I don't know about the West.

Phil: I guess Life is Strange is the only one I can think of.

Tom: That's a classic anime game.

Phil: Number two.

Tom: Number two is Grim Fandango.

Phil: Okay, the LucasArts Tim Schafer game.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: I would say easily the best LucasArts adventure game.

Tom: And I would argue Tim Schafer's best work as well.

Phil: And that's the Day of the Dead themed game, right?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, that's not bad.

Phil: And of course, number one.

Tom: Is the game that did not even make the top at play, Eko.

Phil: It's easy to see why.

Phil: Journey did make the list, by the way.

Phil: Journey was on there like...

Phil: It wasn't in the top

Phil: Journey was on the top

Phil: But you like Journey and you like...

Phil: You know, that kind of setting.

Phil: So that's understandable.

Phil: It's a very thoughtful game.

Phil: It's a groundbreaking game, really.

Phil: Had no HUD, had no English subtitles.

Phil: You basically had to figure stuff out for yourself.

Tom: I think you could argue that essentially the entire indie model of the first wave of indie games was based on ICO.

Phil: You can almost imagine walking through the settings of ICO in first person and it looking a lot like Edith Finch.

Tom: But a lot better.

Phil: Yeah, a lot better.

Phil: And basically it took the puzzle adventure elements of Tomb Raider, but did it in a very artful way.

Phil: The animation was good, talking about rotoscoping with Jordan Mechner's work with Prince of Persia.

Phil: It was almost to that level of this is a breakthrough, the fluidity of the character models, the black smoke monsters, just captured your imagination.

Phil: I bet that still look great today.

Phil: And then it was also a very charming game in that you were leading this person by the hand.

Phil: When you wanted to save your game, you'd go and sit on a bench, which has since been adopted by so many other games.

Phil: And yeah, the ending post credits, I don't want to spoil it, but there's a scene on the beach that was really charming.

Phil: Really a fantastic game.

Phil: So all joking aside, this is a list that was from several years ago, I think about seven years ago.

Phil: Does it hold up for you?

Phil: Obviously there's some things that you would change today.

Tom: I wouldn't change anything today other than increase the resolution without destroying the lighting, which they did in the remake.

Tom: I have played it, I think, three or four times at various generations of game consoles.

Tom: So I would say it is timeless.

Phil: I didn't mean change ICO, I meant your top five.

Tom: Oh, no, I would not own my top five.

Tom: I stand by it.

Phil: Really?

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I've gone back to the same period, and this is from

Phil: So this is a list from

Phil: Okay, so it's a long time ago.

Phil: I'll give you my top five.

Phil: I actually put together a top

Phil: ICO is not on the top which if I was doing the list today, ICO would be on the top

Phil: So my top five are Super Mario Brothers for Nintendo, which is shocking to me that that's on my top five.

Tom: But my only question would be, have you played enough of it to genuinely put that on the list?

Phil: I've played several hundred hours of the first eight levels.

Phil: Number four, No More Heroes, and I think that was definitely recency bias because I don't think that would be in my top five anymore.

Tom: I do love that game, but I don't think it would make my top five either.

Phil: No, and you're going to just go for here.

Phil: Number three, God of War.

Phil: Now, but this is before the other God of Wars had come out.

Tom: But why would you pick God of War when things like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry exist, is my question.

Phil: Well, Bayonetta did not exist when this came out.

Tom: Okay, but Devil May Cry certainly did.

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

Phil: It would have.

Phil: Number two, again, recency bias, Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slime for the DS.

Phil: Which is hilarious, but this was a time when I was building my house and I didn't have access to...

Phil: I played like a thousand PSP games to completion and DS games.

Phil: So Rocket Slime is a fantastic game.

Tom: I can respect that.

Phil: Definitely in my top

Phil: It's a tower defense game and very charming.

Phil: Definitely in my top but not number two.

Phil: And my number one game, and I'm going to have to really think about this, I don't think it's a bad thing.

Phil: You probably do.

Phil: But my number one game is Resident Evil

Tom: I think that's an all right choice.

Tom: It's just a very boring one.

Phil: It is a very boring one, but I'm a very boring person.

Phil: Anyway, we've dabbled enough with our list.

Phil: And if you're happy to move on, I do...

Phil: speaking of Bayonetta...

Tom: Can I just point out here, the man with rocket slime, or whatever the fuck it's called, in his top five games of all time, called my list the worst top five game list of all time.

Phil: Don't judge it until you play Dragon Quest Heroes, okay?

Phil: It's definitely better than Final Fantasy

Tom: I question that.

Phil: Definitely.

Phil: You gotta try it.

Phil: And you know, it's probably stuck on the DS.

Phil: I doubt you can get it anywhere else.

Phil: But we were speaking about Bayonetta.

Phil: Speaking of Bayonetta, Bayonetta is coming out soon.

Phil: It's actually coming out.

Phil: So Platinum's game, which, you know, we thought, I thought for sure, it was probably never going to come out.

Phil: It would have been Metroid or whatever the newest Metroid is that hasn't been coming out.

Phil: It's coming out in October.

Phil: Are you getting it, first and foremost, on release date?

Tom: I might if I remember to.

Tom: I have to say I'm not particularly excited for it based on the trailers they've released for it thus far.

Phil: What about the trailers, don't you like?

Tom: The early ones, the gameplay looked perhaps a little bit more clunky than previous games in the series.

Tom: And the most recent trailer where that was maybe not so much the case, I think aesthetically, looked much more like Devil May Cry than Bayonetta.

Tom: It had really lost its unique panache and style, I thought.

Phil: Well, I think you're going to have to wait and hold judgement until it comes out.

Phil: I've got it pre-ordered and can't wait to play it.

Phil: I'm actually hopeful because I think that the long delay has meant that this is an important project for Nintendo because you've seen this before with various games where Nintendo will delay and delay and delay.

Phil: And for them to come out and go, yep, no, we're giving this the treatment.

Phil: It's coming out.

Phil: Our stamp of approval is on it.

Phil: I think that you'll probably be disappointed because of the expectations game.

Phil: But at the same time, Bayo had a lot to live up to, but because it was a generational leap, you kind of expected that it was going to be better, you know.

Phil: And I don't know, like, do you put Bayonetta over Bayonetta or...?

Tom: I would put them pretty similar levels.

Tom: I think there's an argument to be made that the combat in Bayonetta is better than but I really enjoyed the structure of

Phil: Yeah, I'm right with you.

Phil: I could not pick one above the other.

Phil: I'd probably go with

Phil: But on the Wii U, they came out with that tremendous box set where they re-released Bayonetta

Tom: And I should add, Bayonetta aesthetically was a huge disappointment compared to the original Bayonetta.

Tom: So it's a general direction that the series seems to be going in where it becomes less and less aesthetically interesting.

Tom: But I think Bayonetta while not as wonderful aesthetically as the original, still had very much its own style.

Tom: I think it's more disappointing for it to be going from its own thing that in games is very much a unique aesthetic, but isn't as original as Bayonetta

Tom: To something that is very much similar to another game series that is even in the same genre, is Bayonetta

Tom: It's not as unique as Bayonetta

Tom: It's not as unique as Bayonetta

Tom: I think it's a bigger disappointment for me than the direction Bayonetta went in aesthetically.

Phil: Yeah, look, I think if you, like I'm an idiot, but so I'd say that Bayonetta like to me had, because I went back and played the Devil May Cry series, the original ones on the PlayStation and Bayonetta to me had an aesthetic, I thought, that was closer, or at least not an aesthetic, but a mood and a theme that was closer to Devil May Cry.

Phil: And I thought that the second game did have a lighter aesthetic theme than the first.

Phil: Do you completely disagree with that, or?

Tom: I think the color palette was similar in one to some of the Devil May Crys.

Phil: That's what I'm looking at.

Tom: And I do think.

Tom: I do think that the actual...

Tom: And obviously it's all based on certain mythological motifs in both series, but I do think the level of depth and the originality of the designs and the originality of the designs in the original Bayonetta made it absolutely nothing like Devil May Cry whatsoever.

Phil: So as an imagination game, you've talked about what your concerns and fears are for Bayonetta

Phil: Do you have any hopes for this one?

Phil: What could they do with this?

Phil: Do you want to see them close out the series in a trilogy type thing?

Phil: From a story perspective, do you really care?

Phil: Or are you just more concerned?

Phil: Would you hope that maybe the mechanics were absolutely spot on?

Phil: What are you looking for for Bayonetta ?

Tom: I think I'd like a combination of the structure of two with the slightly more precise gameplay of the original.

Tom: But I do have to say, I wonder what my experience with it will be, because with the original, that was basically my introduction to beginning to take a beat-em-up more seriously and playing one that had a greater degree of depth to it more seriously, but not really succeeding at that particularly well.

Tom: Then the second was succeeding on what I'd begun to do in the original.

Tom: I think at the moment with my piano playing, the odds of me putting in the time and effort into Bayonetta to play it properly is very, very unlikely.

Tom: So I will be, I think, taking it from a completely new perspective.

Tom: So I'm going into it without any sort of gameplay expectations, I would say, because I don't know how I will be playing it when I play it.

Phil: Yeah, well, that's fair.

Phil: I mean, and you know, this genre is like, well, this franchise is like Yakuza for me, you know, where it's kind of like, I know I can't play this the way I want to, but I'm just going to go and experience it, you know, and still enjoy it, but in a way that's different from, you know, maybe how I've enjoyed the series in the past.

Phil: Looking at their development, you know, they've kind of, I mean, Nier Automata came out in then they didn't do anything for two years until they did Astral Chain on the Switch, which I don't even remember.

Phil: A remaster of Wonderful a mobile game, Soul Cresta, has come out in

Phil: And the other games they're coming out for is Babylon's for Square Enix this year, and Bayonetta

Phil: So, you know, it's an interesting thing because like from to they were just banging out games.

Phil: And now it's obviously slowed.

Phil: I think you've got COVID.

Phil: You've got the complexity of developing AAA games now.

Phil: I guess this is a AAA game or a big budget game, we'll say.

Phil: So I just don't know.

Phil: I just hope that the talent that was there for games that I loved from Platinum, like Vanquish and Bayonetta and Transformers Devastation, and for you, the wonderful I just hope that that talent is still there.

Phil: Obviously, Shinji Mikami is still there and Hideki Kamiya, but you've just got to have...

Phil: And that, I guess, is what gives me hopes for Bayonetta

Phil: A game we don't have to wait to find out whether it's good or not is Omori.

Phil: Now, this is O-M-O-R-I, not Amori, but Omori.

Phil: Is it a Japanese game or a Japanese theme or what's going on with it?

Tom: I think it's American, but inspired by JRPGs.

Phil: Okay, and this is available on pretty much everything, Mac, Windows, Switch, Xbox, PlayStation.

Phil: And what sort of game is it?

Tom: Well, it is basically an RPG maker style JRPG, but American made JRPG.

Tom: And the interesting hook that it has is the combat system is based on emotions.

Tom: So there's angry, there is sad, and there is happy.

Tom: And happy is stronger than sad.

Tom: Angry is, sorry, happy is stronger than angry.

Tom: Angry is stronger than sad and sad is stronger than happy.

Phil: Okay, so it's like rock, paper, scissors, type, rush them on or whatever they call it, right?

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Phil: Okay, so happy is better than?

Tom: Happy is better than angry.

Phil: Happy beats angry, but angry beats sad.

Phil: And sad beats happy.

Phil: So sad is a winner, right?

Tom: No, because sad is weak to angry.

Phil: Oh, that's terrible.

Phil: So if someone's sad and then someone angry comes along, the sad person has to lose?

Tom: That's right.

Phil: So where's happy?

Phil: Like, what's happy versus angry?

Tom: Well, happy is weak to sad, and happy is strong against angry.

Phil: Well, I would, okay, I would disagree.

Phil: I mean, happy beats angry any day, because someone can be angry and you just laugh it off.

Tom: Well, that's what it does.

Tom: It does beat angry.

Phil: But I don't think sad, yeah, happy beats angry.

Phil: That's good.

Phil: But I don't think sad beats happy.

Tom: That's because you're a sociopath.

Tom: So when there are people sad around you, you're just as happy as you were to begin with.

Phil: Okay, so if a happy person and a sad person get into a fight, who wins?

Tom: If a happy person and a sad person get into a fight, then the sad person will win.

Phil: Okay, yeah, no, that plays out.

Phil: Yep, okay.

Phil: That's fine.

Phil: I'm good with it.

Phil: Okay, so you said it's an RPG.

Tom: So it's past your psychological analysis.

Phil: Yes, it has now.

Phil: So RPG, I'm glad that, you know, the developers of this game that poured hundreds of their hours of their lives into it have met my rigorous scrutiny of just finding out about their concept.

Phil: So you said it was an RPG maker.

Phil: So RPG maker, my history of RPG maker, was a game on the PlayStation and then the PlayStation where you basically, you know, did a JRPG.

Phil: So you can, is this a game about making JRPGs or is it an actual JRPG or?

Tom: It's not about making JRPGs.

Tom: No, it is a JRPG.

Tom: I will add on the different status, different emotions.

Tom: They also come with different status effects.

Tom: So happy has an increasing light and speed, but a decrease in hit rate.

Tom: Angry has better attack, but worse defense.

Tom: And sad has better defense, but worse speed.

Tom: And I think you take more damage as well, if I remember correctly.

Phil: So what's happy good at?

Tom: Happy is fast and lucky, but inaccurate.

Phil: Yeah, fair enough.

Phil: That plays out as well.

Phil: And I guess the confusion is, this is built on the RPG Maker engine, which has gone on to...

Phil: gone on to, yeah, okay.

Phil: So it's not an RPG Maker, it's just on that engine.

Tom: That's right, yes.

Phil: Okay, and it's been well received by the look of it.

Phil: So what's the setup for it?

Tom: Well, the setup is about halfway through, and this will contain minor spoilers, I suppose.

Tom: It's basically taking place in two different worlds.

Tom: What I presume is the real world, and what I assume is either the characters in the real world's memory of the past or a fantasy version of the world in which they're currently inhabiting.

Tom: So the real world, you're walking around a standard American sort of suburban environment with houses, a shopping, a central shopping center area with various shops and a park.

Tom: In the dream time or memory, sorry, fantasy or memory area, you're going through a combination of science fiction and fantasy settings.

Tom: And the main character's name is different in the two, between the two, but other characters' names are the same.

Tom: And in the other world area, you're going on various adventures in a classic RPG sort of style.

Tom: In the real world thing, the gameplay is still in the vein of an RPG, although there are less battles.

Tom: There are no random battles.

Tom: There are only main story boss battles, essentially.

Tom: And you are discovering there, I would say, what is really going on.

Tom: And there are a lot of psychological horror elements that kind of tie the transition between the two worlds together.

Phil: Looking at screens of this game, I can see why it's been compared to Earthbound.

Phil: It looks like a Super Nintendo, well, it looks like Earthbound, basically, in the traversal sections.

Phil: Would you, does it change up from that?

Phil: Does it have, like, cutscenes or anything like that?

Tom: It has cutscenes that are just a series of pictures, essentially, from what I can recall.

Tom: And there are various instances where you can look at mirrors or come across drawings and things like that, where you have a slightly more complex art style than when you're exploring the world, all the battle screens.

Tom: But it is, it is, I haven't played Earthbound or Mother, but it is clearly very inspired by them.

Tom: Well, as I said, it does have many psychological horror elements.

Tom: It's got a strong sense of humor throughout it, and in the real world areas, the focus is very much on interacting with quirky characters, which is the case in the other world areas as well, but there is combat there in addition to that.

Tom: I think the sense of humor in it is extremely good, and it fits the darkness of the...

Tom: I'm sorry, the humor is dark at times as well.

Tom: You are often...

Tom: that one enemy type, for example, are these creatures called sprout moles, and when you first encounter them, you're just going around slaughtering them en masse as if they're mindless creatures.

Tom: As you continue to interact with them gradually more and more, you get to learn more about them and end up exploring one of their cities as well and discover them to be more complex and interesting creatures that they might have first appeared.

Tom: But the amusing thing about it is that this is not addressed like it is in something like...

Tom: What was the RPG Undertale?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: This isn't a major theme of the game.

Tom: Unlike in Undertale, this is just there, which I think adds greatly to the humor of it and makes it very amusing.

Tom: So it is definitely inspired by Earthbound without question.

Phil: It seems also to have been made by a very small team with an auto-director being the artist, Omocat.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So that's got to be good.

Phil: Now, one of the good things about Undertale and Earthbound for that matter was the music.

Phil: Good music?

Tom: Yep, excellent music.

Tom: Very strong synths and quite a lot of variety as well, actually.

Phil: And what did you play this on?

Tom: I'm playing it on PC via Game Pass.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: So, yeah, okay.

Phil: Because it did originally come out a couple of years ago, but it just released on all the new consoles.

Phil: So Switch, Xbox One and PlayStation and all that sort of thing.

Phil: Yeah, that new PlayStation console.

Phil: Well, fantastic.

Phil: I mean, it sounds good.

Phil: Is there anything else to say about that?

Tom: Probably not until I finish it or get a little bit further into it.

Tom: But I would say for me, the start was very slow and not particularly interesting, but I persevered with it because the music was so enjoyable and the art style was quite pleasant.

Tom: And I think after the start, which is predominantly the psychological horror elements, but without really any context, once you start getting into the humour and once you start exploring the real world as well, I think it's worth sitting through the less interesting beginning.

Phil: Yeah, you know, I played Undertale.

Phil: Earthbound I have not played to completion.

Phil: It's a bit clunky and a bit old, even though I did play it very close to when it came out.

Phil: It's just not.

Phil: I have revisited several times trying to replay it and just not hitting me.

Phil: Undertale, I completely loved and played through, I think, in two sittings.

Phil: And it subsequently built up a following, and now it's cool to not like Undertale or whatever.

Phil: But I thought it was a fantastic game with some fun elements.

Phil: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.

Phil: But in any case, it's apparently popular to hate on it now.

Tom: One thing I'd add is I think another similarity it has to Undertale is there is a very passionate fan base behind this.

Tom: And I think for me getting into this with having heard that it had a cult following, but not being exposed to it, unlike with Undertale, what makes for I think a, I wouldn't say better experience, but a completely different experience.

Tom: I think there's value to be had both in being exposed to a rabid fan base and going into a game from a much more critical perspective and actually living up to the hype in many ways to just hearing that something is meant to have something substantial behind it, but having no idea why at all.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I prefer to go in cold with things.

Phil: And it's sad to me that like apparently Rick and Morty is a similar type of thing where apparently it's got a rabid fan base that turns people off of the actual content.

Phil: I don't go on Reddit.

Phil: I don't seek out any of this stuff.

Phil: I just watch it and I enjoy it and I love it.

Phil: You know, whatever.

Phil: You know, judge me if it's a bad thing to like Rick and Morty, then I guess it's a bad thing to like Rick and Morty.

Phil: I don't really care what other people think.

Phil: I think it's hilarious.

Phil: So speaking of things that are hilarious, I'm not sure if you've heard.

Phil: Had you heard that Jeff Gerstmann is no longer with the company that he co-founded, giantbomb.com?

Tom: I had, and I was confused because I thought he had already left.

Phil: No, so he and Ryan Davis started it, of course, when they broke away from GameSpot.

Phil: And then GameSpot CBS actually bought them back.

Phil: And then after that, CBS got rid of a lot of its web properties, including CNET, which is a massive site, and GameSpot as a part of that giant bomb.

Phil: So they sold it to a company called Red Ventures, which is an investment group.

Phil: He'd been with them for about a year.

Phil: Basically, you know, there's a question.

Phil: Well, he's now got his own podcast, which he's doing by himself.

Phil: And at this point, I'm going to insert a clip from Danny O'Dwyer.

Danny O'Dwyer: Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.

Danny O'Dwyer: He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a -mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.

Danny O'Dwyer: Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work, or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.

Danny O'Dwyer: At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.

Danny O'Dwyer: When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.

Danny O'Dwyer: When he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.

Phil: That was from his documentary about Jeff Gerstmann a few years ago, which you might remember I did a perfect impersonation of, where basically they said, Jeff Gerstmann, yeah, okay, yeah, he's this guy, but he doesn't really get along with anyone and people don't really get along with him in terms of his work at his workplace.

Tom: It was a classic, classic clip.

Phil: Yeah, it was fantastic.

Tom: And if we could insert a video clip as well, I think my favorite, just to go off on a slightly different note, I think my favorite Jeff Gerstmann memory from Giant Bomb, having never listened to an episode of Giant Bomb, was a short clip of Jeff Gerstmann sitting on a sill and falling off it in the background of a video.

Phil: I haven't seen that.

Phil: But look, hey, Jeff Gerstmann, like he's a similar age to me, similar background in terms of, you know, video gaming at least.

Phil: And so like, he wasn't on, basically how I found out, I downloaded the Giant Bomb cast, and it was all the other people who I really don't care about.

Phil: And Jeff wasn't on there.

Phil: And I was like, oh, well, I won't listen to this, because it's just grown to kind of like not like any of the people that are on Giant Bomb.

Phil: But I kind of listen in there just because it's interesting to hear what, you know, Jeff talk about how much he hates video games, because he apparently doesn't like video games very much.

Phil: Of course, he loves them, but you know, at least that's what he says.

Phil: And then the second episode, they come on and he's also not on.

Phil: And they don't mention him.

Phil: I'm like, well, that's weird, because usually if someone's not on, they'll say, oh, well, you know, Phil Fogg's on assignment, you know.

Phil: They didn't say anything.

Phil: Oh, that's weird.

Phil: So I just basically just went to Wikipedia and put in Jeff Gerstmann's name.

Phil: It's like Jeff Gerstmann was with Giant bomb.com from such and such to today's date.

Phil: I'm like, what?

Phil: So they never said anything about him leading.

Phil: So on the third show, they're basically like, yeah, the only person that had a personal connection to him said basically, Jeff's not here anymore.

Phil: And then they introduced like three new hosts, including Dan Reichert, who was, you know, probably in personality, the closest one to, you know, to Jeff.

Phil: And so and then the other thing is, is like, when Jeff was setting up his new podcast and his new website, he was actually on Twitch, not on Twitch, on Discord, like doing all this, like in real time, like, hey, guys, yeah, so I'm out on my own now and this is what I'm doing and he's like setting up the podcast, like getting the URLs and all the rest of it.

Phil: So it didn't seem to be on his part planned.

Phil: But on the other side of things, they had all these hirings lined up, which to me means that he was pushed.

Tom: Maybe he was pushed off that seal as well.

Phil: Maybe.

Phil: Usually if there's an ownership, you know, person, they'll have a contract that says you got to stay on for months and then there's a non-compete.

Phil: And, you know, he didn't stay on for like a full months.

Phil: Obviously, there's no non-compete because he's gone out and set up his own Patreon and everything.

Phil: He's doing quite well with the Patreon.

Phil: I didn't check on it, but I think, you know, he was making it.

Phil: When I first checked on it like a couple of days later, he was making like $a month.

Phil: He's probably gone way beyond that now.

Tom: I'll be $now.

Phil: Yeah, probably.

Phil: And it's probably something he should have done years and years ago because he wasn't really happy.

Phil: There was this person, Jeff Bacalar, that sort of edged his way in from the CNET side of things and made himself or was promoted to the person in charge of game content at Red Ventures.

Phil: And he's still on the site, you know, and Jeff isn't.

Phil: So in any way, it doesn't really matter.

Phil: His new podcast is a solo podcast, which is right up his alley.

Phil: And it's a long form podcast, so it's usually like two to three hours long.

Phil: But just listening to one person drone on and on like our listeners are now, you know, you just can't do it.

Phil: So I listen to it at like times because after a while you just stop listening because there's no other voice.

Tom: I've calculated the minimum amount he is now making on Patreon, which is $US dollars.

Phil: A month?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Clearly he should have done this years ago.

Phil: That's outstanding.

Phil: Good for him.

Tom: At The Game Under Podcast, we on the other hand have no Patreon.

Tom: We are not going to sell out.

Tom: We will remain authentic.

Phil: No, and I can do ads for shaving your balls and dick pills until we get an offer.

Tom: Remember to take your dick pills before shaving your balls.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Well, again, you're giving away the milk for free here, Tom.

Phil: Probably more relevant news.

Phil: I'm not sure if you've caught up with the Gta scuttlebutt from Bloomberg News.

Tom: I'm familiar with a little bit of it.

Phil: Basically, what Bloomberg has come out and said, and I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be FUD, is that Gta is going to be based in Miami.

Phil: They're going to do Miami for starters, and then it's going to dip down into South America, and they're going to add other cities as they go as DLC, either payable or free.

Phil: And basically, it's got a male and a female protagonist.

Phil: You can play for a female as a first time.

Phil: They're bank robbers, a male and a female bank robber.

Phil: And that's basically it.

Phil: I mean, that's the news on Gta

Phil: I'm not particularly...

Phil: I don't really care one way or the other.

Phil: Did you enjoy Grand Theft Auto V, the campaign?

Tom: I thought it was hugely disappointing.

Tom: I think, if I remember correctly, my favorite part was the rock textures.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: That might mean that I was not too impressed by it.

Tom: I think the problem with GTA V, which would appear to be the problem with GTA VI as well, is all of the other Grand Theft Autos either had some amusing, satirical content in them.

Tom: Even Grand Theft Auto IV I would apply this to.

Tom: Or they were in a setting or time period that the people making the game were passionate about.

Tom: Whereas that was not really the case with Grand Theft Auto V at all.

Phil: No, it was just set in the current real world, really.

Phil: And I can only imagine that GTA VI will be as well.

Phil: Well, let's look at this just real quick.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto III set in Liberty City, that was set in a contemporary time.

Phil: I mean, that was set in the period that the game was released.

Phil: It was in the late s.

Phil: And I'd say that Grand Theft Auto III takes place in the late s.

Tom: But I think Grand Theft Auto III was very much focused on being a attempted writing a mafia story slash parody.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, they were ripping off a couple of different famous movies, which they always do, which is fine.

Phil: And Grand Theft Auto III had the other two iterations, which is Vice City, which went down the s down in Miami, which was a Scarface type, Miami Vice type thing.

Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto III went, did it go back to contemporary time, or do you think it would have been set?

Phil: It was set after Grand Theft Auto III because Claude, the main protagonist in Grand Theft Auto III, makes an appearance.

Phil: So I think Grand Theft Auto Vice City is the only one that reverted to an earlier time.

Tom: San Andreas.

Phil: Yeah, San Andreas, I think was, it had to have taken place in that same era, the early s.

Tom: San Andreas definitely was meant to take place in the s, I believe.

Phil: So maybe Grand Theft Auto III and San, San Andreas happens in its chronology after Grand Theft Auto III.

Phil: So I'm going to say Grand Theft Auto III probably occurs in, let's say,

Tom: I'm sure Grand Theft Auto III must occur after San Andreas.

Phil: Well, they make reference to Claude in the past tense.

Phil: So Claude was the playable character in Grand Theft Auto III.

Phil: There's a scene in San Andreas in Fresno or in Central California where they make a reference to Claude in the past tense.

Phil: That, you know, he's all right.

Phil: He's from Liberty City.

Phil: Now, I would agree with you that if you were to just look at it, look at the evidence, not the storyline, that San Andreas appears to be taking place in, I would say,

Phil: Something like that?

Phil: Yeah, it was something like that.

Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto IV with Nico, that took place at, I think, the same time as it came out, like mid s.

Tom: I would say so.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And then Grand Theft Auto V came out pretty much, I mean, because they were talking about Facebook and social media and all that sort of thing.

Phil: I think it pretty much came out when it came out too, which is almost years ago.

Phil: I agree.

Phil: The only time they've really gone off timeline would be with Vice City.

Tom: I think we have to assume that they did with San Andreas.

Phil: And San Andreas.

Tom: I think if we want something to not make sense, we should go with the story rather than everything, literally everything else.

Phil: All the evidence, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: I don't know why this is such an important point.

Tom: Because it's a video game podcast.

Phil: Yeah, I guess.

Phil: So with Grand Theft Auto I mean, I mean, it's, it's, if come out and say it has a campaign mode and the campaign mode or story mode is, you know, hours long, hours long, I'm there day one.

Phil: If they come out and say it's an experience, it's a life game, blah, blah, blah, you know, eight hour campaign experience.

Phil: And I'm, I'm definitely not, not into it, but it is interesting all the same.

Phil: And I've enjoyed all of the games on the PSP, all of the, you know, Gay Tony and Lost in the Damned, obviously my favorite.

Tom: I think I wouldn't be against it if it is a high quality eight hour experience because Grand Theft Auto V basically consisted of several low quality hour campaigns.

Phil: Yeah, and we've agreed on that before.

Phil: I think it was basically like three DLCs, basically.

Phil: Like, you know, they did Grand Theft Auto IV with Niko, and then you had the brilliant DLCs for Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony.

Phil: If you basically took those three games and put them together, well, Grand Theft Auto IV has obviously got a lot more depth and length than those DLCs, but yeah, I get what you're saying.

Tom: Now, when we talk about Bloomberg, we're referring to Bloomberg, the mainly business focused news source, right?

Phil: No, no, I'm talking about Michael Bloomberg, the presidential guy who ran for president.

Phil: He's an avid Gta fan.

Phil: He's got his own fan site.

Phil: I think it's called bloomberg.com.

Tom: I think it's mikebloomberg.com.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: And no, he just, you know, even though he's like, you know, in his late s, he's really into this.

Phil: Probably a leading reporter on this.

Tom: Well, I'm relieved that it is Mike Bloomberg because it leads, gives some credence to my theory and hope for the only way they can make Grand Theft Auto interesting, because we know it's set in Miami, and we also know it's set in South America.

Tom: Now, I'm going to assume that this is Mike Bloomberg, an American politician.

Tom: So he believes Cuba is in South America, and that the setting for the game is going to be Miami and Cuba with the theme being the Bay of Pigs invasion, which I think would be right in Rockstar of Olds Wheelhouse.

Phil: Okay, okay, okay.

Phil: What about Rockstar of Olds Wheelhouse?

Phil: Oh, that's the other thing.

Phil: They said they're not going to be punching down with their humor anymore, which I hope means they're not going to be making fun of people with Southern accents that show at Walmart.

Tom: Well, that's the thing.

Tom: That's what is not punching down.

Tom: What is the pole opposite of not punching down than a theme based on The Bay of Pigs, one of the most comical punching up moments in history?

Phil: Definitely.

Tom: I think I'm on to something here.

Phil: I think I'm on to something because if you take it into Cuba, I mean, wouldn't it be in Rox Giles' theme to have you get to Gitmo?

Tom: We fast forward to Gitmo.

Tom: It can span decades.

Tom: We're not just going to get cities as DLC.

Tom: We're going to get different political eras.

Tom: I'm now excited for Gta

Tom: Before we had this discussion, I couldn't have cared less, but now I am hyped with high expectations.

Tom: I think I'm anticipating this more than I am Bayonetta

Phil: I think they're going to have a scene where you break into Gitmo and meet the three guys that are still there.

Phil: Hey, just before we get too far into the news, I did want to tell you about a game that I've been playing.

Phil: I've been playing a ton of games just for our listeners' benefit.

Phil: I've been playing Paper Mario, Kirby, Need for Speed on the Switch, which isn't bad.

Phil: I've got to say it's actually quite good.

Phil: Dragon's Dogma, Luigi Mansion Last of Us Part

Phil: So I also played Wonder Song as well.

Phil: Or Wonder Song.

Phil: Wonder Song.

Phil: Wonder Song?

Tom: Wonder Song.

Tom: I think it's Wonder.

Phil: Wonder.

Phil: Yeah, W-A-N-D-E-R.

Tom: Yeah, as in wandering.

Phil: Yeah, wandering.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: But did you want to basically dip into Wonder Song?

Phil: And you've been, you've played it as well.

Phil: Did you finish the thing?

Tom: Yep, I finished it.

Phil: Okay, so I'm going to describe it this time.

Phil: You're going to look up who made it and when and all the rest of it.

Phil: But this was a game, I think that was available either through Amazon Games, which is a fantastic thing if you've got Amazon Prime.

Tom: I think I played it from one of the sales of the century.

Phil: Of the century, right.

Phil: And I think this was the, yes, and on the PC, so when we refer to the sale of the century, that's itch.io.

Phil: And Wonder Song is a D game.

Phil: I would say that, and you can disagree with any of this, I would say it's very similar to Zelda in terms of it's everything.

Phil: You're basically walking around on a D level, you're going into people's houses, you're talking to them, and they're very much in that same level as the people that you have in Zelda.

Phil: They may not be saying, I am error, but it has that same feel of it to me.

Tom: I think there is a bit more character depth to it than Zelda

Phil: Yeah, then the character calling themselves, I am error, and that's the only thing you can say.

Phil: In this game, you are basically picking up on environmental cues that are audio.

Phil: You have essentially, if you can imagine, a color wheel that you can activate using a button on a controller.

Phil: Yeah, it's fun to describe video games.

Phil: A color wheel that comes up around your character.

Phil: So if you heard a bird make a chime, you would then move your analog controller around to mimic that chime, and then that activates a ability or some other thing that happens in the scene so that you can progress through this D platformer.

Phil: So I would say that it has a paper cut style to it, or rather a flat style to it.

Tom: I would say it has an MS Paint aesthetic to it.

Phil: Oh no, no, I wouldn't go that way.

Tom: I don't mean that in an insulting way.

Phil: I would say that it looks alike.

Phil: This is a shitty thing to say.

Phil: It looks like a Unity game.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's a bit better than Paint, but...

Tom: I would say Paint is a lot better than Unity if we're going to be comparing the two.

Phil: As a game engine, I completely agree.

Phil: In terms of compatibility, at least Paint works on all Windows platforms.

Phil: By the way, I love Linux.

Phil: I'm still using my Linux Mint install on my laptop.

Phil: And, oh my god, it's so freeing just not to be...

Phil: Anyway, I won't start talking like a Linux person.

Tom: While we are talking about the art style, I genuinely did not mean that as an insult.

Tom: I think visually it's one of the best indie games I've played because it is extremely darish in its colors, but it does it in a very modern style.

Tom: So it is perhaps the only indie game, you mentioned Zelda that takes what is the basis of old pixel art, which is clashing colors to create really strong contrasts and does it in a modern, completely unpixelated style.

Tom: Also using both contrasts, not just with colors, but also with geometry as well.

Tom: So you have a lot of really simple things, like tree trunks that are just a straight line and trees that might be a green hexagon on this trunk.

Tom: But then you'll have rounded details on characters' hats and hairs and heads and things like that.

Tom: It's actually, I think, a really complex and exceptionally well-done art style that I haven't seen any indie game, other indie game, doing that is taking this old sort of design principles from the pixel art era of games and building on it and creating a totally new aesthetic effect that is on the same principles, but with modern technology that isn't just doing the same thing, but with finer detail because you can use more pixels now.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, you're bringing up an interesting point.

Phil: I wasn't immediately struck by the visual quality of the game.

Phil: You like, you know, I kind of compared it a little bit to a night in the woods.

Phil: And I thought that, you know, like, you know, in my mind's eye, I think a night in the woods has a better, I don't know if it's a better aesthetic, because night in the woods just kind of looks like a, an animated kids TV show.

Phil: Is this any different from that?

Tom: I think this is very different from that.

Tom: Whereas night in the woods is, as you said, just a much more standard, cartoony art style.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: I mean, they could take night in the woods and turn it into a kids show.

Phil: And you'd just, you'd be like, yeah, okay, I get it.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Okay, yeah, no, that's fair.

Phil: That's fair.

Phil: Now, I've only played about two hours of the game.

Phil: So does that music tool, that music interface with the color wheel where you're replicating sounds that you hear in the environment, which was kind of, I mean, it was very cool.

Phil: It was like, if you want to think about it, like, you know, guitar hero type thing or rhythm game type thing, it was very much like that, but different as well.

Phil: Does that continue throughout the game?

Phil: Does it evolve into something?

Tom: Yep, it gets progressively more complex as you're going along.

Tom: And I think the thing that surprised me about it the most is that they consistently come up with new ways of using it to keep things interesting, because the gameplay is extremely simple in each individual section, but they managed to come up with different ways to use this mechanic, but it remains interesting until the end of the game, or at least it did for me, which I was very impressed by.

Phil: And how long is this game?

Tom: Five to eight hours, depending on how fast you are, would be my estimate.

Tom: So for taking such a simple mechanic and coming up with new ideas consistently, I think that's a pretty good effort.

Phil: In terms of its narrative, I mean, it's one of wards for its story, basically to me, it was just a, okay, again, I've only played the first couple of hours, so it's basically like you're a child and you're in a village and you're doing things that is helping the village.

Phil: I'm assuming it goes to more meaningful places for it to win.

Tom: Well, you're playing as a bard and a fairy appears to the bard and tells the bard that the universe is ending and that the bard has to go off and save the universe, essentially.

Phil: That's right, which is a pretty typical setup, really.

Tom: Yep, yep.

Tom: And they do do some interesting things with this.

Tom: I think it is a game where it's best played without having anything spoiled about it because they, likely with the gameplay, they take this very simple premise and add progressively more and more interesting and amusing wrinkles to it so that it becomes something that is a lot more interesting than it first appears to be.

Phil: Seems to me like I should get back to it and keep going with it.

Phil: I did enjoy it while I was playing it.

Phil: If you're wondering at home where you can play it, it is available on Mac and Windows and Switch, PlayStation and Xbox One, and was released back in

Phil: Again, it is probably the most relevant platform you can get it on is Windows and Switch at this point.

Phil: And it was fairly well received beyond the awards it got for its story.

Phil: It received scores averaging out about out of

Tom: And I would recommend persevering with it because it didn't make a great first impression on me.

Tom: But as I continued on, not unlike Omori, it turned out that there was more than there first appeared to it.

Phil: And like with Undertale and Stardew Valley, this game was developed by its composer as well, which is always a big plus.

Tom: Oh, and I will add, that reminds me, I think one of the most enjoyable little things in it throughout the game is there are several instances where you get to compose your own song that becomes a part of the game.

Phil: Oh, cool.

Phil: Which I can see the appeal for you there, you being a musician and...

Tom: I would be a loose use of that term, but yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Anything else on Wonder Song?

Tom: Um, I think we need to roll the die of destiny.

Phil: Oh, that's true.

Phil: It's Final Impressions, isn't it?

Tom: Yes, it is.

Tom: So here we go.

Tom: Unfortunately, Wonder Song gets a out of

Phil: No, no, that's got to be wrong.

Phil: I think it made an out of

Tom: No, a out of

Phil: Were you holding the dice upside down?

Tom: Well, I don't think you can hold a dice upside down.

Phil: Oh yeah, you can.

Phil: You just put a dice in your hand, and then you hold it upside down.

Tom: So that would be in orientation to your hand.

Phil: Yeah, in orientation to the surface at which you're going to throw it.

Phil: In the Northern Hemisphere, this has a completely...

Phil: You probably just threw a Northern Hemisphere die roll.

Phil: Just do a down under for The Game Under Podcast at gameunder.net.

Tom: So does that mean I should hold it under my hand?

Phil: I think you should just do the reverse of what you just did and see what we get.

Tom: Well, the first time I think my hand...

Tom: The palm was probably facing up the first time.

Phil: See, that's your problem.

Tom: So this time we'll go for a downward facing palm roll.

Phil: Downward facing.

Tom: Well, that did result in an improvement.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: It went up to a out of

Phil: A ?

Phil: Okay, maybe you did a little sideways...

Phil: You maybe did a...

Phil: You need to do a South American dice roll from the side.

Phil: And then we'll add that.

Tom: We've now got a out of

Phil: Oh, there you go.

Phil: That's what we needed.

Phil: Okay, so that was Wonder Song.

Phil: As I said, it's probably most relevant to you if you have a PC or a Switch.

Phil: Fantastic game by Tom Towers' view, which means it is a must play.

Phil: One final piece of news, I see, and then we'll close out the show, I see that you are, your investment plan has worked out quite well.

Phil: You bought an Oculus Quest

Phil: It's now gone up in value.

Phil: Well, not because of the, you know, thousands of pirated games you put on it, but because the makers of your headset, Facebook, also known as Meta, did something that is, I think, unprecedented, but probably not exclusive.

Phil: I think if we really looked at it, we might find a difference.

Phil: But they put the price up.

Phil: So right now, an Oculus Quest is $in Australia.

Phil: And they put the price up by $in the US, $in Japan.

Phil: My question is, because my whole thing was, I'm not going to buy a Quest

Phil: I'm going to wait until Quest comes out, and then I'll buy a Quest on the cheap.

Phil: So now that whole thing's been scuttled.

Phil: Drew the question.

Phil: You haven't talked about it much lately.

Phil: How is your meta quest going?

Tom: It's still going okay.

Tom: Since the collarbone, it has been impractical to play, though.

Tom: Due to the double-handed motion control scheme.

Phil: So what you're saying is you might be able to move one cheap to a cohort.

Tom: I would probably keep it though, because I do want to play what would probably be not just game of all time, but game of the universe for you, which is Resident Evil VR.

Tom: It should be possible soon.

Phil: I think, yeah, that sounds nausea-inducing.

Phil: But you were okay with all that, weren't you?

Tom: It depends on the game.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, unless you've got anything else you want to talk about, I think we can close out the show.

Tom: Well, I do have to bring up something that I think has become an important theme to most game websites, which is Ur-Fascism.

Tom: Because I think we've...

Tom: Ur-Fascism.

Tom: I think the Ur stands for Umberto Reco.

Tom: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Tom: His theory...

Tom: you know Umberto Eco?

Phil: No.

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Eco.

Tom: The Italian author.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: All over the internet and media, including games media, I think fascism became an interesting topic and they always reference Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism theory and his points of fascism.

Tom: And I have now read Umberto Eco's essays on fascism.

Tom: And I'm a little confused because in all of this media on fascism today that I've seen, that constantly reference Umberto Eco, I have not seen mentioned anywhere that two of the most defining and important characteristics of fascists are one, penis envy, and two, advertising rhetoric.

Tom: So I'm just flabbergasted.

Phil: Go on.

Tom: That's it.

Tom: That's it.

Tom: That's it.

Tom: I'm just shocked that everywhere I see people referencing Umberto Eco and none mentioned penis envy or advertising.

Phil: I'm not well-versed in this topic, but I'm sure many of our listeners are.

Phil: So with that, Umberto Eco, comment.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: You're welcome.

Tom: And I'm surprised as the psychological expert on The Game Under Podcast that you're not well-versed in penis envy or the theories of advertising.

Phil: Theories of advertising, I could probably talk about for several hours, but the other topic of which you speak, I have certainly interacted with people that have that syndrome, but it's obviously not something I can relate to, but it's not something I've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about other than when I've seen people that I know go out and buy really expensive sports cars.

Phil: But, yeah, I mean, you know, thank you for a classic ending to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: You can visit us at gameunder.net.

Phil: I've got a review up there.

Phil: That's the most recent thing we've posted.

Phil: But, yeah, so with that, I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I am Tom Towers, an expert on P.Sanford.

Phil: And maybe we can expound on that in the next episode.

Game Under Podcast 144

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

0:00:10 Introduction

0:00:49 Magazine Talk

0:04:40 Play Australia Magazine Review

0:11:00 COVID 2 (Sequel Impressions)

0:15:11 Collar Bone's Connected to...

0:26:47 Square Enix Sells Tomb Raider et al.

0:33:30 This War of Mine

0:38:38 All profits from this podcast will be going to Ukraine

0:41:00 Opiate Talk

0:58:30 Gran Turismo 7 Update

1:01:00 Mario Kart 8

Transcript
Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am your co-host, Mr.

Phil: Phil Fogg, and I am joined by Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, welcome to Australia's longest running video game podcast until someone tells us that we're not.

Tom: Well, no one's gonna tell us that unless they're a liar.

Phil: Well, they would be, because I think we are the longest, well, I know that we're the longest running.

Phil: We've stuck at this longer than anyone else, which is more than what I can say for various video game publications and magazines, but perhaps we'll get into that in a little bit, unless you want me to jump right into it right now.

Tom: We may as well.

Tom: It sounds like you're eager to talk about it.

Phil: Well, I am, because I went into my local grocery store.

Phil: So I live in a small community, and this grocery store came in about years ago and shut down all the local stores in our community because they were the one stop for everything, including a really spectacular news agency and toy store.

Phil: So everyone said that's all right because this grocery store is here now and they're going to have the magazines and this way you don't have to walk into two shops and do two transactions.

Phil: So I walk into the news agent and after coming home from a gun safety course, because I'm applying for my gun license, which is another topic, but I figured, oh, you know, now that I know a little bit about this, so, you know, maybe I could get a magazine like Guns and Ammo, you know, and start reading about it just to get a little bit more informed on the hobby.

Phil: So I went to my grocery store and the magazine section is not there.

Phil: And I start walking around the shop, they've moved everything, like everything is moved to a stupidly illogical place.

Phil: Like there's now nappies that used to be like, baby's nappies used to be next to like paper towels and toilet paper and tissue, right, paper products.

Phil: Now the nappies are like in the candy section and you know, the cereal sections in with the-

Tom: Well, there's a child related still.

Tom: So maybe that's their logic.

Phil: Well, not the nappies I was looking to buy.

Phil: In any case, so the magazines aren't there.

Phil: So I go to this, you know, stereotypical, you know, pimply face team, who's the only other guy in a store.

Phil: And I say, hey, do you-

Phil: Where's the magazines?

Phil: Do you have any magazines?

Phil: He's like, oh, well, we have the IGA magazine at the-

Phil: After, well, first of all, he said magazines.

Phil: I'm like, yeah, you know, like Guns and Ammo, Women's Weekly, People.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: He said, well, we've got the magazine at the-

Phil: IGA magazine at the front of the store, which is the four page color catalog that tells you what this week's specials are.

Tom: Is it good reading?

Phil: Clearly not what I'm looking for.

Phil: And I said, oh, no, not the store catalog, like a magazine like Women's Weekly or Guns and Ammo or, you know, Sport Fishing.

Phil: Oh, maybe it's over there near the newspapers.

Phil: And I'm like, no, there's only newspapers there, because we can both see the newspaper stand from where we're standing, and there's three newspapers.

Phil: And he's like, oh, no, I guess, I guess not.

Phil: I guess not.

Phil: So this is the situation, man.

Phil: There's no more magazines in my local shop.

Phil: And I talked to him today.

Phil: I said, so what's the deal?

Phil: Like, are you going to get magazines back?

Phil: Like, well, they're like, well, you know, we have these three magazines, which are, you know, the three most scurrilous, you know, you know, pop culture, celebrity type magazines.

Tom: Which ones?

Phil: I think they said the name, the lady said it was called Take Five and OK.

Phil: I'd never heard of these things, but you know.

Tom: I think OK I may have heard of.

Phil: I think I've seen OK.

Phil: I'd recognize OK.

Phil: And I could have misunderstood her accent about the whole Take Five thing.

Tom: But she may have been saying to you, OK, Take Five.

Phil: OK, Take Five.

Phil: That's hilarious.

Phil: But in any case, I have I blind subscribed at a cost of $a year to a video game magazine called Play Australia.

Phil: Are you familiar with this magazine?

Tom: It sounds familiar.

Phil: Well, what was the magazine that you used to go on and on about?

Tom: Hyper.

Phil: Hyper.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Right.

Phil: It's not Play.

Phil: So anyway, this is Play Australia.

Phil: And it's got five contributing editors.

Phil: And then there's about probably, I'd say, seven freelancers.

Phil: And it is a -page mag, full color gloss, published by Future Publishing, which is the same people that do RetroGamer magazine, one of the other four remaining video game magazines.

Phil: Play was the longest running PlayStation magazine in the UK until it was folded, and then it was resurrected last year in of all years.

Phil: And from what I can tell, they licensed this around the world.

Phil: So this Australian Play magazine is actually just the licensed version of the UK.

Phil: So like the Australian Game Informer magazine that used to come out, it's predominantly the content produced by the UK team.

Phil: And then they've got, like I said, five local editors that localize it and make it Australian sort of thing, and then contribute their own reviews as well.

Phil: So all in all, so first of all, I was pretty impressed with it.

Phil: They're up to their seventh issue.

Phil: It is a PlayStation only magazine, but given the way gaming is these days, obviously they can't rely on exclusives alone.

Phil: In terms of their scoring, they appear to use most of the scale.

Phil: Like most of their scores were, I have to admit, seven to ten with one ten for Elden Ring.

Phil: But they do give out a two.

Phil: They did give out a three.

Phil: So Shadow Warrior I don't know if you knew that that had come out.

Tom: I did not.

Phil: Well, Shadow Warrior has come out.

Phil: It got a five out of ten.

Phil: They gave a two out of ten to Curious Expedition, a five out of ten to The Cruel Key, and even a two out of, yeah, like I said, a two, a three and a five out of ten.

Phil: They also gave a seven out of ten to Dying Light

Phil: So they're using the scale, and there was one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen reviews, which is pretty healthy for a magazine, and a similar amount of previews.

Phil: In terms of their credibility, well, the front cover had Ghostwire Tokyo.

Phil: It's made by Tango Works, who is the team that was headed up by Mikami, I believe.

Phil: They did the two games, The Evil Within, and Ghostwire Tokyo was supposed to be the third Evil Within, but then they've set it in Tokyo, which sounds like it's going to be a cult classic, which is a PlayStation exclusive.

Phil: So it's probably the last Bethesda game now that they're owned by Microsoft that will be a PlayStation exclusive, but also available on PC.

Phil: But in terms of their credibility, well, they've got the front cover.

Phil: Ghostwire has also got the back cover, which is usually the big ad, which costs typically around $for a back ad on a subscriber-based magazine.

Tom: Do you think it's going to be that much today?

Phil: In Australia, probably still, I'd say.

Phil: I mean, $is not a lot of money for advertising.

Tom: But with inflation, it's a lot less.

Phil: That's right, yep.

Phil: But they got the front cover for their back page ad.

Phil: They got the front cover, a review, which was, I'm looking right now, out of and also a fluff piece preview.

Phil: So in terms of their credibility...

Tom: They had a preview and review in the same issue.

Phil: A preview and a review, yeah.

Phil: The preview was the making of, and that was pretty light.

Phil: It was probably less than words, spread over four pages, and didn't really get into it.

Tom: Well, there's basically never been a good preview written in a games magazine ever, so...

Phil: No.

Tom: That's not expected.

Phil: But yeah, they gave a preview, a making of and a review in addition to the front cover for their back cover ad.

Phil: But you know what?

Phil: I'm at the point where I'll take what I can get.

Phil: The rest of the magazine was very good.

Phil: There was no grammatical errors that I could pick up on, and you'd be like, yeah, like you'd ever pick up on a grammatical error.

Phil: But in terms of readability, it was pretty good, and they had a pretty diverse crew in terms of the number of people contributing.

Phil: There's a game on there I want you to write down because I think it's right up your alley.

Phil: It's a game called Martha.

Phil: Martha...

Phil: is dead.

Tom: I think I've heard of it.

Phil: Yeah, it's a walking simulator with a photography bend.

Phil: And it's really sort of creepy.

Phil: And I'm pretty sure it'd have to be available on PC, but it was also available on PlayStation

Phil: But it looked like a game that was right up your alley about six or seven hours long.

Phil: They gave it an out of

Phil: So yeah, all in all, play Australia.

Phil: It's another voice.

Phil: It's certainly not a magazine I'd rely on.

Phil: % for my coverage.

Tom: Is it released per month?

Phil: It is released monthly.

Tom: So $isn't too bad.

Phil: Yeah, $isn't too bad.

Phil: It's more than what I'd like to pay for a magazine subscription.

Phil: But given the lack of choices, it's certainly something that I'm going to support.

Tom: Now you mentioned Hyper.

Tom: I actually sent you an issue of Hyper a long time ago.

Tom: I don't think we ever actually discussed it on the show.

Phil: No, and I don't have it in front of me, so I wouldn't be able to give too many substantive comments about it.

Tom: So we'll have to do that in the next episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Yeah, sure.

Phil: It's still handy.

Phil: I did read it and I did appreciate it.

Phil: It was mouldy smelling, as promised.

Tom: It certainly was.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Tom: Or rather mildew.

Phil: Yeah, mildewy.

Phil: But with that, is there anything that you wanted to talk about this week before we get into some games or some news?

Tom: Certainly no news.

Tom: I don't think there's anything interesting news-wise ever, but I think you also have impressions of coronavirus for us.

Phil: Yeah, look, and that's why we didn't record last week.

Phil: Look, we're trying to, I think it's fair to say, try and record every week or every other week as best we can.

Phil: But after your impressions of COVID, I decided that as usual, being a follower of yours, if it's good enough for Tom Towers, I will give it a try.

Phil: So I went out and got some COVID.

Tom: Well done.

Tom: And given the timing, you may have got it from me, in fact.

Phil: I think so.

Phil: The show wasn't quite long enough.

Phil: I think you have to be on a show for four hours before you can get COVID from your co-host.

Tom: I think so.

Phil: So I went out and got it.

Phil: It was on sale.

Phil: It was pretty easy to get, I've got to say.

Phil: It used to be, I'd say, pretty hard to get in Australia, but recently you've been able to pick it up pretty easily, even from small children.

Tom: I think the thing is they've started producing it here, whereas before it was imported, whereas now we're manufacturing our own coronavirus.

Phil: I wish we were manufacturing our own video games like we used to years ago, but anyway.

Tom: Or magazines.

Tom: We're also importing them.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Hey, do you want some impressions or?

Tom: Yes, go ahead.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I thought it was pretty weak.

Phil: I had muscle pain for about two days, which was really distracting.

Phil: Just a general sense of fatigue, if you will.

Phil: And then one night of fever that wasn't even proper fever.

Phil: Like, you know, the kind I like.

Tom: That's the part you were looking forward to and it didn't live up to it.

Phil: No, I did have a weird dream, but I don't think that was related to the fever.

Phil: It wasn't weird enough.

Phil: That was still pretty weird.

Phil: But yeah, all in all, it's a big fizzle.

Phil: I mean, after two days of muscle pain, basically I had a positive test to show for it and just basically having to stay away from people for seven days, which was, you know, the best part about it.

Phil: But yeah, I mean, I've got my own die of destiny here.

Phil: Unless you have any follow up questions, I'm ready to review it.

Tom: It sounds like a pretty disappointing experience overall.

Phil: It was, yeah, completely disappointing.

Phil: But not as disappointed as the people whom I gave my impressions of it, because there was a very large sympathetic audience that wanted to know how absolutely horrible it was to have COVID, because it is still very rare in my community.

Phil: And there's a lot of people who are very fixated on how horrible COVID is.

Phil: So when I took great pleasure in telling them how much it was really just a very mediocre cold so yeah, so if it's okay, I'm going to roll the die.

Phil: My Phil Fogg die of destiny.

Tom: Go ahead.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, the die of destiny has given it a out of

Tom: So the same score.

Phil: The same score.

Phil: The dies can't lie.

Tom: I didn't hear any dice rolling, I have to say.

Phil: Well, it could sort of just plonked on to the desk, okay?

Phil: I'll fix it in post.

Tom: I'm questioning if there actually is a die of destiny there.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay, well, my friend, do you want me to roll it again?

Tom: Yes, please do.

Phil: Okay, here we go.

Phil: There you go, a again.

Tom: Amazing.

Phil: Yeah, I know, twice in a row.

Phil: Who could have foretold?

Phil: But no one can argue with the die of destiny.

Phil: So, how's it, I mean, how's COVID been for you?

Phil: You're completely done and finished with it by now, right?

Tom: Yep, I'm finished with it.

Tom: I already given my final impressions on another show.

Tom: Although there's still, I would say, an above average quantity of phlegm.

Tom: But other than that, completely done with it.

Tom: So, to celebrate the end of coronavirus, I thought I would try something a little more interesting than coronavirus.

Tom: So, I was thinking...

Phil: Like syphilis or...?

Tom: No, not syphilis.

Tom: I thought I'm done with viruses.

Tom: I did a virus.

Tom: Let's try something else.

Tom: I have not broken a bone for decades.

Tom: So, I thought it might be a good idea to break my collarbone.

Phil: What?

Phil: On your bike?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: You've broken your collarbone?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Why are we recording?

Tom: What?

Tom: Why are we recording?

Tom: I broke it on the rd last month.

Tom: So, it's been a while since then.

Tom: And it was, in fact, a very impressive break.

Tom: The bone was completely in half, and I would say or cm separating the two halves vertically.

Tom: And as soon as the technicians saw it, they said I would need surgery.

Phil: That's the upsell.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: The doctor's comment was that I would need surgery.

Tom: The surgeon's comment was that it should heal perfectly without surgery.

Tom: And while they have started...

Phil: Wait, what football match was on that he was trying to get to?

Tom: I don't think any.

Tom: But while this was on Saturday, so I went there in the morning on Saturday, and the emergency room was bizarrely empty.

Tom: But as the day wore on, there was a steady influx of amateur AFL players.

Phil: Oh, sweet.

Tom: All of them who ended up having slings apply to them.

Phil: Oh, my God, that's so comical.

Phil: I just love to see this lineup of AFL players with slings on them.

Phil: Only in Melbourne, you know, the home of the AFL or the VFL for that matter.

Phil: I guess they're the VFL players, aren't they?

Tom: Yes, they would be.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: I just sort of immediately just cut to an animated version of your life.

Tom: I want fucking pussies, though, because I was there.

Tom: I refused the sling and just held my arm in place, holding my belt the entire time, unlike these fucking weak AFL players.

Tom: Why don't they take up a real sport?

Phil: Okay, they're using real slings, and you're somehow superior to them because you're miming using a sling?

Tom: Yes, I have the strength and stoicism to not need some fucking sling, like a coward AFL player.

Phil: If we could just animate this, the show would be over by now.

Phil: Okay, so...

Phil: Your collarbone, is that your clavicle?

Tom: Yep, that's the clavicle.

Phil: Clavicle, oh, righto.

Phil: That's not a good one to break.

Tom: Well, it will take a long time to recover, apparently.

Tom: Without surgery is -months.

Tom: With surgery, it's about a month, I think they said, but the surgery damages the nerves.

Phil: Oh yeah, it would.

Tom: And if it's healing well, does not result in a superior level of healing either.

Phil: I've got to say, in a woman, I appreciate a good clavicle.

Phil: I don't know that men carry off the clavicle as good as a lady.

Tom: I'd say it depends on the man.

Phil: And the woman.

Tom: I have excellent clavicles if I do so myself, or one excellent clavicle.

Tom: Now we'll see what the other way ends up being.

Phil: So is it your left or right clavicle?

Tom: Left.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: And luckily I'm right-handed.

Phil: How's that help?

Phil: So you can rub it?

Tom: No, so I, well, your left hand, your left arm needs to be immobilized.

Tom: So if you're left-handed, that will make doing a lot of things much more awkward.

Phil: This is like the story I told a few years ago where I injured myself and I was like, oh, thank God it's my left hand.

Phil: Oh, no, that's not my gamer thumb.

Phil: Whatever it was.

Phil: I think that was last year where I had a massive cut or injury and I was like, oh, thank God it's not on the thumb.

Phil: Okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that, man, but, you know, like, that's pretty cool that you've survived it.

Phil: How's the bike, the mighty, the mighty firing eagle?

Tom: Well, the bike, I think it's probably okay.

Tom: I haven't actually inspected it properly yet.

Phil: Oh, yeah, and how did it happen?

Phil: Do you run into a bus or?

Tom: Well, it was essentially the, my equivalent to drunk driving because someone invited me to the local market in the morning and I thought I am not in a state in which I should be going to the local market in the morning, let alone riding a bicycle.

Tom: But I ended up going anyway with a completely non-functioning brain.

Tom: And on the way riding home, it was a lovely sunny day, so I decided I would ride to the river, which is just a few blocks away, and where they work is actually right nearby there.

Tom: So I was riding past, right near their place, and I saw a billboard that I wanted to take a picture of.

Tom: And my non-functioning brain, while I was putting on a glove on my left hand with one hand, I saw this billboard, and my non-functioning brain decided to, for some reason, begin slowing down while I had my left hand off the handlebars and was going along at probably about km an hour on a very unstable, rickety, $folding electric bicycle.

Phil: What?

Phil: Your own electric bicycle?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And...

Phil: When did this happen?

Tom: Well, I've had this electric bicycle for several years now.

Phil: Oh, is that when they first started installing the publicly available electrical bicycles and you stole one?

Tom: No, this was before then, actually.

Tom: I think they may have been inspired by people like me.

Phil: I don't want to get too deep into the reeds here, but is it a good brand or is it a China brand?

Tom: It is a China brand.

Tom: And for $which is the price I paid for it, I think it was actually under $

Tom: I think it has been an exceptional vehicle because for $it has lasted several years, many, many kilometers.

Tom: The battery has certainly got worse over the years.

Tom: It's gone from a range of maybe kilometers if you're economical in how you're riding to kilometers if you're economical and you're riding.

Tom: So realistically, to around kilometers range.

Phil: So you know this is your brain's fault, right?

Phil: Because you saw something aesthetically that you liked and wanted to do something creative with.

Tom: Well, it was my brain's fault more so for two things.

Tom: One, the decision to ride the bike with a non-functioning brain.

Tom: And then two, the non-functioning brain.

Tom: So I should add for our American listeners that in Australia, the brakes are around the other way.

Tom: So the right hand brake is actually the front brake, not the rear brake.

Tom: So if I have my left hand off the handlebars and I'm going along, if my brain is functioning, if I'm on a bike with recently serviced grabby brakes, I'm obviously never going to be braking with the right hand brake.

Tom: For some reason, my brain decided that it should just attempt to slow in the present circumstances regardless, resulting in immediately the front wheel grabbing, the bike immediately turning a little to the right and basically flipping forwards so that I had to somersault off the handlebars so that I didn't grow face first into the ground.

Tom: And then sliding along the asphalt for about or meters.

Tom: Luckily, purely by coincidence, I happened to be wearing a leather jacket and jeans.

Phil: Is that the leather jacket with the eagle on it?

Tom: No, but it is one of the leather jackets from that classic Game Under anecdote.

Tom: So one leather jacket saved a cat, and another leather jacket has now saved my skin.

Tom: So they continue to be a wonderfully useful purchase.

Phil: Well, man, I'm so sorry that we even dragged you onto this podcast.

Phil: If I'd known you had a broken clavicle, I wouldn't have made you record anything.

Phil: But that's quite impressive.

Phil: I've done some really stupid things between this and the last podcast as well, but I'm not going to go into that right now as it relates to putting my physical person in danger.

Phil: I think it's probably time for us to get into the gaming news and in some gaming impressions, if that's okay.

Tom: No, it isn't, because I surely have to give some actual impressions of The Broken Bone, just briefly.

Phil: So the first news story.

Phil: Okay, The Broken Bone itself, like it didn't jag out of your body or anything, right?

Tom: Yes, it did.

Tom: Well, I thought that maybe it didn't come out through the skin quite, but I thought perhaps I had dislocated my shoulder or something, but there was an experienced comical nurse there.

Phil: Comical nurse?

Tom: Yes, a comical nurse.

Tom: As soon as she saw the bone sticking up about four centimeters higher than the other one on one side, she concluded that I had broken my clavicle, but nevertheless touched it, to be sure.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: In classic nurse style.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But I just wanted to add, just briefly, it is, I think, a great bone to break after my experience with my toe and my elbow, because you can keep it...

Tom: It's not a bone that is in a part of the moving body, so you still have a little bit of arm movement, so it's not as frustrating as wearing a cast.

Tom: And because there's no cast, so far it has been fascinating, because without an X-ray, it has been possible to watch the right side of the bone, which was completely pushed down into my chest and not visible at all, gradually rise to the same position as the other one, and the part of the bone that had been elevated gradually moved down towards it.

Tom: So we're getting a live depiction of the movement of the bone, which has been very fascinating.

Tom: So I think after the disappointment of coronavirus, this has been, I think, a very fascinating, a big step up from that.

Phil: Oh, definitely.

Phil: I mean, bone breaking has to be a big win over viruses, you know, because with the virus, you don't know how much of it's in your head, you know, but with a broken bone, there's no avoiding it.

Phil: You've broken the bone, you know.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Wow, man.

Phil: Okay, so do you want to give it a score?

Tom: Well, these are just the first impressions.

Tom: I think we can give it a score later on.

Phil: Well, with that, I do want to get into the news.

Phil: I mean, probably the biggest news of the day is that Crystal Dynamics and IDOS Vancouver have been purchased, have been sold by Square Enix so that they can fund a blockchain initiative.

Phil: I mean, that's the actual reason.

Phil: That's the stated reason.

Phil: So like, yeah, hey, Tom, just so you know, we got to let you go, mate.

Phil: And I know this is difficult for you, but with the money that we'll be able to save from your salary, we're going to invest it into the blockchain.

Phil: And we think this is going to be very lucrative for us.

Phil: So anyway, your new owner is a company called The Embracer and they've somehow a magic, somehow magically got people working for them in the United States already in such video game companies as THQ and such what.

Phil: And yeah, so that's it.

Phil: You're gone.

Phil: So Square Enix sold Crystal Dynamics, the home of Gex, Tomb Raider.

Phil: Deus Ex is the Eidos part.

Phil: So keeping in mind, Tomb Raider was developed by Core in the UK, C-O-R-E, and then Eidos bought them out.

Phil: Eidos is responsible for Thief and Deus Ex, most notably.

Phil: And then Crystal Dynamics was the studio that was doing the work of those.

Phil: So they got bored as well.

Phil: And Crystal Dynamics did Legacy of Kain and Gex.

Phil: But apparently, there's like something different IPs wrapped up in this.

Phil: And they sold for only $million, which in terms of companies like Microsoft hoovering up companies so that they can build these Netflix type subscription model for video games, is not a lot of money.

Phil: So it's kind of a shock to me, but at the same time, Crystal Dynamics did have the failure of that online adventure game.

Phil: Square Enix was never happy with the...

Tom: What was the online adventure game?

Phil: The Avengers.

Tom: Okay.

Phil: Yeah, the Avengers.

Phil: I'm sorry, not the online adventure game, the online Avengers game.

Phil: And they did Guardians of the Galaxy, which was critically well received but commercially a bit of a flop.

Phil: But at the same time, Square Enix discounted that down to nothing, like the Black Friday within a month of Guardians of the Galaxy being released, even though it was critically acclaimed.

Phil: And I'd love to pick up a copy myself, but it's pretty hard to get here in Australia.

Phil: So overall, like this sounds like a really poor decision on the part of Square Enix, other than for them to...

Phil: I mean, the stated reason was we're going to use the money we were wasting on you on the blockchain, which is a big insult.

Phil: But I think ultimately the reason why they got rid of them was because it was never a good cultural fit.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: When Square Enix bought them, Japanese gaming was floundering and the West was it.

Phil: The West was present in terms of creative output.

Phil: But now, like you see games like From Software, even NIS's Persona series, games like Nier Automata, Japanese games have kind of gotten back into vogue with Western players on their own stance.

Phil: So now I'm thinking that Japanese companies don't need to have a quote Western developer to be relevant.

Phil: And I really just think this is Square just turtling and getting back to their core, as opposed to any other reason why they would get rid of, you know, what would otherwise be a pretty good group of intellectual property that would be wanted by anyone who's trying to build up a Netflix type subscription model.

Tom: Well, I think that out of all of those titles, including probably even Deus Ex, Tomb Raider is really only the big one at this stage.

Tom: And million does seem pretty low for it.

Tom: But I think outside of that, there probably isn't that much interesting or marketable there.

Tom: And the only other thing is you said that Japanese games have come back since then.

Tom: I think more importantly, Square Enix games have as well.

Tom: They've managed to restore the reputation of Final Fantasy since then.

Tom: So I think it makes more sense, as you're saying, that they're wanting to focus on their own things rather than attempting to publish stuff that they don't really have any idea of how to engage with.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And when you think about it, like we're here in Australia so we can kind of understand this.

Phil: So if me and you were like, hey, we really aren't reaching the Japanese market or the Canadian market or the African market or the US market with this podcast, or the Cuban market.

Phil: Anyway, I could go on and on.

Tom: Are you just rattling off a few places that we've had hits from that you don't know about?

Phil: And so we go out and we buy some other podcasts that can carry The Game Under brand internationally.

Phil: At the end of the day, though, you know, you've got maybe a golfing podcast, for example.

Phil: It's a lot of overhead and a lot of worry.

Phil: And ultimately, we can't control it from where we are, which for a Japanese company, you know, it's interesting that, you know, Sony has never opened up like a Sony USA electronics arm.

Phil: You know, they have for their publishing, but they haven't branched out with their hardware.

Phil: And it just makes sense that they'd want to keep this stuff close to home sort of thing.

Phil: And they probably don't feel like they've got an immense amount of control over it.

Phil: They most likely overpaid for the Marvel license for Guardians of the Galaxy and the Avengers game that Crystal Dynamics had to develop.

Phil: Interestingly enough, Crystal Dynamics is working on a perfect dark game, which would have to be for Microsoft because Rare owns perfect dark.

Phil: So obviously that'll continue on just as a side note.

Phil: But yeah, it just seems to me the logical divorce of a marriage that was never going to work.

Tom: I would agree.

Phil: Similarly, just talking about the Ukraine and Russia.

Phil: Well, Ukraine, EU, depending on which way this thing is going to break.

Tom: Could you describe that perhaps rather than a divorce, that a marriage that's unlikely to work out, ending its inevitable divorce, is this a marriage that is currently occurring?

Tom: Could we continue the metaphor?

Phil: If you look at the Russian side of things, you know, why would we get into it?

Phil: Okay, so, but in any case, This War of Mine, which was one of your top games of the s.

Tom: Might have been a game of the year one year.

Phil: The s, actually, yeah.

Phil: It was your game of the year for one of the years, and you included it in your best games of the s.

Tom: All deserving of that.

Phil: Yep, a game developed by, I believe, the studio is called Bit Studios, but it's a pretty small company based out of Poland, and basically, last week, well, maybe a week and a half ago, two weeks now, they basically said, any money that we make over the next seven days, we're going to send to aid humanitarian causes in Ukraine, which is, you know, really admirable.

Phil: And they started out, and they also announced that they're going to be bringing This War of Mine to current gen consoles.

Phil: Now, I don't know if it was a part of the promotion or just because I haven't checked in on the game recently, but also if you go, if you have already bought the game on Steam, you can go and download an update for it, which has extra chapters, essentially an expansion.

Phil: And like I said, I don't know if that's a part of this promotion or just because I haven't been paying attention.

Tom: I think that happened before this promotion.

Phil: Yeah, and like most games on Steam, I guess, whenever these incremental things come along, I think most of the publishers on Steam are pretty cool about just giving it to you, which is, again, one of the amazing things about PC gaming for the most part.

Phil: I'm sure there's some expansions that some publishers force you to pay for.

Phil: But even something like American Pro Trucker, I've noticed like they're very lavish.

Phil: It's basically like if we produce content for this game that you bought years ago, you can just keep downloading it for free.

Phil: Don't worry about it, which is fantastic.

Phil: But in any case, I went down, re-downloaded This War of Mine and then replayed it for a few hours, which we can talk about.

Phil: But yeah, the number one thing is that This War of Mine, I describe it for people that aren't aware of it as a survival game set in a D platformer type level.

Phil: So the gameplay area that you're playing it in is very limited.

Phil: It's basically one or two screens wide.

Phil: And you're in charge of, in my game, three people that you switch between.

Phil: And you're basically performing survival activities in an urban environment which has been devastated by modern war.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Or by a siege, indeed.

Phil: And This War of Mine was a game that was always interesting, but obviously given the social media coverage of the conflict in Ukraine, is a game that is really raw and real.

Phil: And okay, you look at it.

Phil: Initially, when I looked at this, I'm like, wow, man, this is a really cheap cash in.

Phil: Why are you promoting your game right now?

Phil: At this point of time, it's like, if you had published a Jaws video game, every time someone gets eaten by a shark, you're like, hey, yeah, you see the story?

Phil: Check out this game.

Phil: It's on sale.

Phil: And I thought it was pretty distasteful, which is why I added that story to the VG Press, that tagline to the VG Press, stay classy, shh, sorry.

Phil: But as it turns out, they were donating all their profits from one week of activity.

Phil: And this game was released, I think back in, yeah,

Tom: It's even older than Monopoly.

Phil: It was a flip, it was a flip game.

Phil: You basically flip the pages and the characters move.

Tom: What's the origin story of it?

Phil: It was brought out in on Android and iOS, and now it's on PC, obviously.

Phil: So it's been around for a while, and so you're like, okay, first of all, I don't know why these guys are still working on this game, but they're like, oh yeah, we're going to give all our money next week to people from Ukraine.

Phil: So you're like, okay, so that's like us saying, hey, you know what?

Phil: In fact, right now, I'm willing to pledge any money we make from The Game Under Podcast over the next month, we will provide to the Red Cross of Ukraine for their support.

Phil: And I'm, it's awfully presumptive, I should have asked you first, because you're the lead host on this whole endeavor.

Phil: But I mean, you support me in that, right?

Tom: I won't stop you.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Now, what if we were to pass on any costs of this podcast over the next month to the people of Ukraine?

Tom: I think that would be an even better endeavor, I think.

Phil: I think so, because I could go out and get some new equipment and quite a few games, honestly.

Tom: I think they owe us.

Tom: I mean, we covered Stalker in depth.

Phil: In depth for years without thanks or comment.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: It's about time Ukraine did something for us after all we've done for them.

Phil: It is.

Phil: And I've been using Gramily for millions of words.

Phil: And apparently, they're based in Ukraine too.

Phil: And it's been take, take, take.

Phil: I mean, I pay them $a month for that Gramily subscription.

Phil: Maybe it's time for them to start giving back to The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Maybe this is what led to the whole thing in the first place.

Phil: It could be a sense of guilt.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: And in fact, this is my own war.

Phil: This war is mine.

Phil: But in any case, I forget what I was saying.

Phil: Oh, in any case, yeah, they ended up raising like $because people wanted to support Ukrainians and get a free video game.

Phil: They could have just supported the Ukrainians and given them more money.

Phil: But I thought that was really cool.

Phil: I honestly thought that was really cool.

Tom: Well done to them.

Tom: I think they've done this with other various charities as well.

Tom: I'm pretty sure to begin with, when the game was first released, a percentage of the profits went to some charity, potentially of some suspicious origin, involved with war orphans.

Tom: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: So look, you know, we've joked around here a fair bit, but all credit to them for raising this money for charity.

Phil: I think it's wonderful.

Phil: I think it's really wonderful.

Phil: Like if you have a microphone, you know, you use it for good, just as we do on this podcast with our clavicle talk.

Tom: Raising clavicle break awareness.

Phil: We could eliminate clavicle breaks in our time.

Tom: Speaking of which, as well as potentially needless surgery, I was offered an opioid at the hospital.

Phil: Is that some sort of podcasting award?

Tom: I think it's I think it's a potentially addictive drug.

Phil: Oh, yes.

Phil: Opioid.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: And of course, I immediately took it.

Tom: And I can add it to the list of drugs that have had no effect.

Tom: This is a famous and popular drug, judging by rap music that people love and is supposedly an amazing experience.

Tom: It didn't even give me nausea or provide any pain relief for that matter.

Tom: So I'm giving oxys a thumbs down.

Phil: Oh, oxycontin.

Phil: Yeah, I confronted a nurse recently in a hospital because they had liquid oxycontin that they were purple.

Phil: No, I can't remember, but it was, you know, a lot of things are purple to me, but like they, you know, and they were done with it and they went through this whole extensive thing where they had two people like, OK, we've got this many milligrams.

Phil: We've got milliliters.

Phil: We're going to dispose of it.

Phil: You sign here, you sign here, because they have to account for every milliliter of it.

Phil: And then they poured it down the sink.

Phil: So I'm like, so do you guys have your own wastewater system here for the hospital?

Phil: And they're like, oh, yeah, totally.

Phil: Like all the water that comes into the hospital goes through this wastewater process.

Phil: We've got our own wastewater plan.

Phil: It makes sure that all the water is completely purified and clean because it's so important to our process.

Phil: And I said, no, no, no, what about the water?

Phil: You just threw oxycontin down a sink.

Phil: You just threw like a liter of oxycontin down a sink.

Phil: Like that's going somewhere, you know, like we recycle that water.

Phil: And they looked at me like completely dumbfounded.

Phil: And I said, look, hey, I'm not making a documentary.

Phil: I'm just asking a question.

Tom: You just don't have a microphone on.

Phil: Yeah, I said, I'm not making a documentary.

Phil: I'm just asking because like there's ads on the radio that say don't throw your medications down the toilet because, you know, they reprocess that water and turn it into drinking water, you know.

Phil: And you've just put a liter of oxycontin into the water system.

Phil: And they're like, oh, no, no, never thought of that.

Phil: So, yeah, real story.

Tom: They'd have been better off drinking it.

Phil: They would have been.

Phil: Yeah, but all joking aside, I mean, it was a good opportunity for me to re-pick up This War of Mine.

Phil: And, you know, I've got to say, I only bought it out of respect to you because you liked it so much.

Phil: What is it about that game that you liked it so much that it was one of the best games of the s for you?

Tom: Well, I think it stands out as being one of the few art pieces that is successfully anti-war to some degree, with basically the majority of supposedly anti-war content either promoting the concept of war through all the problems being solved through violent conflict, or ultimately actually being a way of absolving guilt for something.

Tom: So if you look at something like Apocalypse Now, a supposedly important anti-war film that shows how bad war is, there are some elements of that to it, but it is ultimately about how great the suffering was of American soldiers and how they got drawn into this horrifically bad thing that drove some of the greatest American minds insane, which is a completely disturbing and perverted take on Heart of Darkness, which is very much not that.

Tom: And there are very, very few artworks on War that do not ultimately either become absolution of the place that the thing is being made in, while supposedly being a depiction of something bad they've done or something bad they've engaged in, or just simply being a moral tale on how practically speaking, violence is the best solution to all of the problems that the characters face.

Tom: And that's not the case at all in This War of Mine, and not only is it thematically very interesting that it successfully avoids those issues, while also not suggesting that violence may not be necessary in certain situations or practically useful either.

Phil: Right.

Tom: In terms of gameplay, it's an absolutely exceptional survival game with incredibly deep mechanics that build on one another and a fascinating use of interaction between people and the environment as well.

Phil: I would say that it is not so much a survival game as it is a sim game.

Phil: So people that are familiar with the sims and similar type games are going to feel right at home because there is a need.

Phil: There's no life bars.

Phil: There's no hunger bars.

Phil: There's no fear bars or injury bars.

Phil: There are really like there are, but not in real time.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And I've got to say basically, you know, you can dilute this.

Phil: It's now we're talking about a or year old reference, but like, you know, in a Lost Vikings sense, you've got three characters and you can switch between them in this D platform plane.

Phil: And basically, if you can imagine a urban building that's cut in half and you're seeing it halfway through, and then you can walk up and down these four stories that are essentially two screens wide, two screens wide at the most.

Phil: And you're stuck there with three people and you've got to basically scavenge what you can from your own building first and then from the surrounding areas.

Phil: And during the day is a time to eat.

Phil: It's a time to build things in your environment that are going to strengthen your community, you and the two other people that live there.

Phil: This might be something as simple as a bed or a chair.

Phil: You can cook.

Phil: You can make a lockpick or a shovel to make digging through rubble more easily.

Phil: And then someone will come to your door and you get to trade with them.

Phil: They always want more than you want to give for items of survival.

Phil: And at night, you get to choose who gets to sleep, who gets to sleep in a bed, who gets to sleep on the floor, who gets to guard the building, or who gets to go out and scavenge.

Phil: And on these nightly scavenging hunts, you never know what you're going to find.

Phil: You might go to a church that you attended as a child and now you have to steal from it.

Phil: You might go to a gas station or a local close home and you might find that, you know, you're comfortable stealing some things and then you go into a room and you know that the people back in your apartment would really like this food, but now you've got to steal it from someone else.

Phil: And I've got to say that this game to me, the first time I played it, it was only out of respect to you.

Phil: I downloaded it, I played it and I died pretty quickly and then went, well, I've played it.

Phil: And in this time around, for whatever reason, I got stuck in it and I wanted to survive.

Phil: And I played the game horribly.

Phil: There's no tutorial that I can find.

Phil: I didn't even know that you could switch between the three people.

Phil: And I played pretty horribly.

Phil: I was criticizing the game because it's got all these icons that are crowded together and I didn't know.

Phil: It was really loose and sloppy as to how you could pick these icons for actions and then I finally figured out you use the cross pad for it.

Phil: But ultimately, this game really scared me because like after a few days of living in these people's skins, I was hungry and my group, we were industrious and we were trying everything we could, but ultimately we didn't have food and there was no way of getting food.

Phil: And we had one window of opportunity every night to go out and get food and ultimately that wasn't working very well.

Phil: So like I've managed to keep everyone alive, but now I'm on day and it's been four days since anyone's eaten and there's no, you know, dude turns up to try and sell us some food.

Phil: I've actually got to give him everything and then I realize I've given him all my water so I can't even boil the food that I've now acquired, you know.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: So it's a really good and profound game that I don't know how they've come across other than through personal experience would be the cheats way of doing it.

Phil: But maybe they're just really thoughtful people that have observed a lot of this type of content.

Tom: I think it was research, from what I can remember, rather than personal experience.

Tom: But you mentioned the other thing that is very impressive of it.

Tom: Again, in terms of it being a war-based thing is its focus on civilians and civilians in the context of the difficulty that wars create.

Tom: So, in this case, it is more exaggerated than in most situations, because it is based on a siege, rather than a city involved in a war or near a war that is occurring.

Tom: But essentially, what war does is it just totally destroys all of the basic things that you take for granted day to day.

Tom: So, as you experience in the game, simple things like getting water, food, heating, electricity and so on and so forth become gargantuan tasks that are very difficult to achieve.

Tom: Not necessarily to the same degree as in this War of Mine, but in ways that make life incredibly difficult and hard.

Tom: And again, that's not really something that is in the general conception of war other than in a nostalgic sense for the Second World War in countries that were barely affected by it.

Tom: For example, Britain with rationing and that sort of thing.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Oh my God, we can't get nylon stockings or cigarettes.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: In the United States.

Phil: Now I know that, you know, in Australia we are rationing butter and make no bones about it.

Phil: The people in the UK certainly did suffer during World War II.

Tom: I was mildly perturbed.

Tom: It's how I would put it.

Phil: Oh, well, yes.

Phil: But I'm not going to disparage the difficulty that they did have to go through nor the people of France either.

Phil: But yeah, so this game really does, you know, make you stop and think about how difficult it would be.

Phil: And as you said, there's no enemy.

Phil: This is all the people of the same city and the same culture and the same community doing this to each other.

Tom: And that would be my one potential criticism of it in terms of its realism.

Tom: But for the way the game is designed, it needs to play out like this.

Tom: There is no broader community.

Tom: It's a totally isolated thing, which is obviously totally unrealistic.

Tom: So in that sense, that's one failing of the game.

Tom: But if you imagine your role playing as a bunch of, for some totally unknown reason, eccentric loners, it makes sense.

Phil: I'd say, yeah, you're right.

Phil: And I'd say that what it comes down to, and this sounds like an old fashioned word, but like also the lack of decency.

Phil: And I think that I observed this in Australia when COVID was around and you go into the grocery store and all the shelves are cleared out.

Phil: And you get a sense of, oh, I'm sorry.

Phil: I thought we were a community.

Phil: I thought there was some decency here.

Phil: Because where I'm from, you wouldn't buy everything you could to the disadvantage of your fellow community member.

Phil: You just buy what you needed.

Phil: And I think that was revelatory to me that, oh, okay, what I thought was a community is actually not.

Phil: It's just a collection of individuals with their own selfish needs.

Tom: Well, that's certainly the culture of the moment, but I think that's also a very different sort of societal context.

Tom: So I don't think the two can really be translatable into one another.

Phil: Yeah, but if you were to drop the community, the same community that stripped the shelves of essentials and non-essentials into This War of Mine, I mean, what's the difference?

Tom: Well, the difference is the type of disaster.

Tom: The odds of a wartime type of issue not being massively propagandized into a community-based thing is extraordinarily low.

Tom: The only similar sort of thing you could come up with would be rather than a group of individuals attempting to get everything they can for themselves would be groups of people being excluded from this on the basis of them being on the wrong side.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Fair enough.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: However, I do think that you would absolutely agree with me that This War of Mine is a game that must be played.

Phil: I mean, you did include it in your top of the s.

Tom: Absolutely.

Tom: And with time, the more one reflects on it, I think the higher esteem I put it in.

Phil: Yeah, I agree.

Phil: I agree.

Phil: There's plenty of games that we appreciate.

Phil: And I think that this one, I'm actually, you know, stupidly, I feel really bad that I haven't looked up what -bit studios has done since then, because this is a really high quality game.

Phil: It's kind of like that SimCity level of game that led to Maxis' success.

Phil: And it would be interesting to see where this studio has gone since then.

Phil: But given the subject matter, I can't imagine that too many gamers are too sympathetic or enthusiastic about it.

Phil: But hey, they raised almost a million bucks in one week for a good cause.

Phil: So, you know, there's obviously some support out there for it.

Tom: I think they may have made Frostpunk, or possibly not.

Tom: Yes, Frostpunk and the Anomaly series.

Phil: Yeah, I'm not familiar with either one of those.

Phil: So that's since, obviously.

Tom: Yes, I think so.

Phil: I know Frostpunk is a more...

Phil: I've heard of that.

Phil: That's a more recent game that I've heard of.

Tom: Anomaly is in fact before This War of Mine.

Tom: But Frostpunk is indeed after it.

Tom: And that is a strategy game of sorts as well.

Tom: I think it's an RTS.

Phil: Okay, so probably nothing I'm interested in.

Tom: Potentially not.

Phil: Yeah, clicking through.

Phil: Actually, funny about my SimCity reference, it's a city building game.

Tom: Okay then.

Phil: So, yeah, I might check that out.

Phil: I've been known to like a few city sims over the years.

Phil: I think we can probably close the book again on This War of Mine.

Phil: And with that, I'll open the floor to you.

Phil: Is there any other games you want to talk about that you've been playing?

Tom: Well, I have still been playing Gran Turismo

Tom: And one thing I wanted to add that I think makes it so enjoyable is, I've talked about how excellent the physics engine is, but what makes it unique and enjoyable other than the fact that it translates so well to control is it's still a Gran Turismo game.

Tom: So you can still race in a bumper car style.

Tom: You can still do absurd track cuts that are massively to your advantage.

Tom: And that would be one area, I think, where the physics are not at all comparable to Sims is in things like where you end up off the track in the grass or in gravel and that sort of thing you have, I think, far too much control.

Tom: And you do not lose speed anywhere near enough or rather you lose speed so that your driving is controllable, as opposed to just careening off uncontrollably if it's slippery grass and completely stuffing up your race and that sort of thing.

Tom: But that makes it enjoyable because it does give you a super fun classic Gran Turismo ridiculous racing style game.

Tom: And one interesting thing they have is a clean race bonus, which raises the amount of credits you get at the end of each race by %.

Tom: So it's a substantial boost.

Tom: So if you attempt to drive in a non-Gran Turismo style of avoiding cars and avoiding cutting track limits and that sort of thing, you are rewarded for it.

Tom: So there is something to encourage normal driving, which there wasn't in Gran Turismo games up until Gran Turismo Sport.

Tom: But it's great that there is reward if you want to do that because that works very well with the new sim style of physics.

Tom: But it's also great that you have this wonderful combination of sim style physics with arcade style racing sensibilities, which is essentially what Forza Horizon has been, does, but in a totally different way and in a way that is to me much more enjoyable than having physics that are like a blend of the two in a ridiculously over the top presentation.

Phil: So in in video gaming, like I think for most people that play, you know, car games, racing games, you basically just press down the accelerator the whole way.

Phil: And then maybe there's an option to hold L to drift when you go around a corner, like a left trigger when you go around a corner sort of thing.

Tom: That would be Mario Kart.

Phil: That would be Mario Kart and many other games really as well.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And I would argue the same for, you know, Forza Horizon.

Phil: Like I didn't find to be particularly challenging in terms of, you know, it was really an arcade game.

Tom: Well, I've only played the last two of them, and it depends on what you set your assist settings to.

Tom: So if you leave them on default, that is the case.

Tom: If you turn off all the assists, that is not the case at all.

Phil: So the last ones that you played, I think the most recent ones were Australia and Mexico.

Phil: Is that right?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Is that Mexico one pretty spectacular?

Tom: Well, when I say I've played it, I mean, I booted the game up and drove several meters then stopped.

Phil: Several meters?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Then stopped?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Sounds like your bicycle experiences.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, yes.

Phil: All right.

Phil: So that's the default for Horizon.

Phil: So I've got to say my daughter is playing Mario Kart right now.

Tom: As we speak?

Phil: No.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Mario Kart

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: As we speak.

Phil: And she was having a lot of difficulty with it.

Phil: Well, she's very young.

Phil: So I put on the auto steering, but I made her still in charge of acceleration.

Phil: And I'm still afraid that this is giving her an inflated ego in terms of her abilities to play a video game.

Phil: But at this point, I'm just trying to encourage her.

Phil: She's learning the tracks and all the rest of it.

Phil: And then, you know, because if she just plays it by herself, she's just going to be discouraged and walk away from it.

Phil: But I can't help but feeling as a lifelong gamer that when she says, I want again, I want again, I want again, check me out, I just want again, I'm like, hmm.

Phil: Yeah, but, you know, because I don't know if you know, Mario Kart has these auto steering and auto acceleration options.

Tom: And you can turn both of them on?

Phil: You can turn both of them on and basically just put the system down and walk away from it.

Phil: And you're still going to place.

Tom: So you're just watching an AI race at that point?

Phil: Essentially, but, you know, for a little kid, I've basically just left for her, I've left the steering assist on and she still has to accelerate and brake.

Phil: And by brake, I mean not accelerate at certain times.

Phil: But, you know, you got to get them hooked.

Phil: You got to get them into the experience.

Tom: So have you tried playing like that yourself?

Phil: I haven't.

Phil: No.

Tom: We need your impressions on it.

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure my impressions are going to be I put it down, I came back minutes later, and I came third.

Tom: So that would be better than you normally do?

Phil: No, not at all, not at all.

Phil: But I got to tell you that with Mario Kart, I was thoroughly into it.

Phil: I was really into it.

Phil: I was unlocking all this stuff.

Phil: I thought I was doing great.

Phil: And this is with obviously no assists on because I'm a tremendous gamer.

Phil: And then I was like, yeah, all right, fine.

Phil: Go online.

Phil: I'll show these chumps what it's about.

Phil: And I came th every single time.

Tom: I was surprised how well I've done in Mario Kart online because against the AI, I thought I was terrible, but I raced against Bugs, who has been competitive against gaming eek, who is supposedly good at it.

Tom: And I don't think he beat me once.

Tom: I had a similar experience with Tekken with Jamie of New Game Plus.

Tom: So I do not believe I'm good at either of those games, but against people who are not necessarily good at them, but have a reputation in smaller communities, maybe I'm not as bad as I think.

Phil: Does New Gaming Plus still have a podcast?

Tom: I don't know if they have a podcast.

Tom: I think the show is still going, though.

Phil: Yeah, I didn't think so.

Phil: Game Under Podcast, longest running.

Tom: On the Switch, Mario Kart

Tom: I have to say, I am surprised at how much I go back to that on and off.

Phil: Oh, yeah, it's a fantastic experience.

Phil: And when I don't want my daughter to use the Switch, I've given her the Wii U and said, hey, this is the new Switch.

Phil: You know, this is a Switch and she'll play Mario Kart on that.

Phil: And it looks just as good.

Phil: I mean, it looks really good.

Phil: They obviously know what they're doing over there.

Tom: For the record, the last New Game Plus podcast was in November

Phil: OK, so we are Australia's longest running video game podcast.

Phil: Confirmed.

Tom: Yet another one bites the dust.

Phil: Another one bites the dust.

Phil: And you know what?

Phil: I'm sorry to see them go.

Phil: If I'd known they existed.

Phil: So with Gran Turismo have you been online, playing online with it much at all?

Tom: Well, I do not have PlayStation Plus.

Tom: I don't believe that I can.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Fair enough.

Phil: Any other impressions of Gran Turismo before we close this out this week?

Tom: That's probably all there is to say on Gran Turismo other than that the campaign continues to be highly enjoyable for the previously stated reasons.

Tom: And so far, I'm personally not having a big issue with the amount of credits I'm getting.

Tom: It has thus far been more than enough for me to both upgrade and modify cars as I see fit by the occasional car as well.

Tom: But my interest in cars is potentially different to other people's.

Tom: The Suzuki Cappuccino was recently added to the used car dealership and became a meme on the internet.

Tom: As soon as I saw that, I knew immediately to buy it out of respect for the wonderful vehicle that that is.

Tom: So that would be one of my most anticipated cars to get in it, and it was only credits.

Tom: So there aren't many expensive cars that I'm particularly interested in so far.

Phil: Yeah, I agree with you.

Phil: I mean, like, my best experiences with Gran Turismo was basically buying my Mazda Miata that I had in real life, or MX-here in Australia, and then just basically pimping it out and taking it all the way through the game, as far as I could, at least.

Phil: So a Suzuki Cappuccino, is that like a Swift Junior, or I'm not familiar with this model?

Tom: That is a, I think it's a pretty, pretty sure it's categorized as a K car, and it is a convertible sports K car.

Tom: And there's three classic K sports cars.

Tom: One is the Suzuki Cappuccino, the other is the AutoZam A

Tom: I'm not sure what the lettering is exactly.

Tom: Maybe Zsomething like that, and the Honda Beat.

Tom: And those three cars are cult classics of them.

Tom: The Suzuki Cappuccino was actually imported into Australia in reasonably large numbers.

Tom: And I saw them in the Japanese in car importing dealerships that were all over the place on Victoria Street as a child.

Tom: So I am a big fan of them.

Tom: So as soon as I saw it, I knew to get it.

Phil: In my country, a K car is something completely different, which I'll let our audience look up.

Phil: I've actually driven a few K cars in my time.

Phil: And when I first moved to the States, my first car was a K car.

Phil: So, but completely different from what you're talking about.

Tom: Yes, basically the opposite.

Phil: Well, as always, this has been a tremendous pleasure.

Phil: And with that, we'll close out episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Thank you for joining us listeners.

Phil: Oh, and by the way, you can now join our Discord.

Phil: The easiest way of doing that is by going to gameunder.net.

Phil: And one of the top links on the top right hand side will enable you to add our, add you to our Discord server.

Phil: I can't say that we're going to be tremendously active there.

Phil: We use it to record.

Phil: And if we see you there, we'll probably drag you into a show.

Phil: But other than that, there's no reason.

Tom: Or you can listen live.

Phil: Or you can listen live, of course.

Phil: And who wouldn't want to, to this amazingness.

Tom: I like how Supreme joined the Discord, discovered we were recording it and promptly left.

Phil: And then turned off all ability to be notified when we were recording.

Phil: But yeah, some of the old crowds popped in there as well.

Phil: So it will be interesting one day to see who we can gather at a.m.

Phil: Eastern US time.

Phil: But yeah, thank you for this episode.

Phil: And we will catch you next time.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

Phil: Copy that floppy.

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

Phil: Copy that floppy.

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

Phil: Copy that floppy.

Tom: This would be how it works.

Tom: So it is kind of like Final Fantasy or Legion of the Groon.

Tom: Yes, well, I was going to say...

Tom: Legion of the Groon.

Tom: Both on PC and PC.

Tom: You are effectively a modern doctor.

Tom: Modern doctor.

Tom: Yep, absolutely.

Tom: And also...

Phil: Yes, you are quite right.

Phil: I am sorry.

Tom: Gift.

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

Tom: That is a rare glitch.

Tom: I have probably had it a couple of times.

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

Phil: I am sorry?

Tom: I think that is also a question of illiteracy, so to speak.

Game Under Podcast 143

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Show Timeline

0:00:04 Introduction

0:00:44 Max Payne 1 and 2 Remake

0:05:46 Tomb Raider Writer Reveals...

0:10:11 Tom Reviews COVID

0:24:20 Podcast Addict - Chapter Marks

0:26:37 Fever Talk

0:27:22 Tom Reviews Table Top Game Chocolate Monopoly

0:36:26 Phil Reviews Wall Street Kid for NES

0:50:13 Phil Reviews Detention

1:02:06 Phil Reviews Paw Patrol Games

1:08:20 Why You Should Play Kid Games

1:12:55 Sky (The Game from That Game Company)

1:29:17 Gran Turismo 7

1:44:28 Outro

Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast, recorded this Easter Monday on the th of April,

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined, as ever, by the man known as the Easter Bunny of Queensland, Phil Fogg.

Phil: That is it.

Phil: And of course, everyone would know that this is actually episode because we posted episode

Phil: It was a shorty for Easter.

Tom: Well, you should know that my part of the show is scripted, so if you write in the notes, that's what I will mention.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure if it was written, it would have been a lot better than that.

Phil: But did you have a listen to episode our GTA bonus episode?

Tom: I probably did when we recorded it.

Phil: Yes, it was actually a segment from episode

Phil: It was actually a pre-intro.

Phil: So it was like minutes before we even got to the intro of episode when we recorded it.

Phil: But it was still interesting, coming up with the next Grand Theft Auto announcement pending.

Phil: I thought it was a good time to put that show up there since we didn't get an opportunity to record.

Tom: Was this the one with the rock texture impressions?

Phil: No, no, no, no.

Phil: This is basically going through every single Grand Theft Auto game up until the release of GTA V.

Phil: And you and I, and I think we should do this again, basically did our live impressions of watching the trailer.

Tom: I remember that.

Phil: Yeah, it was hilarious.

Tom: Unfortunately, we will never have the opportunity to do that again because there is never going to be another Grand Theft Auto game.

Phil: Well, they've said that one is, they're working on one.

Phil: So what that means, who knows?

Phil: So we will see.

Phil: I mean, at least we...

Tom: I think it will be a patch for Grand Theft Auto

Phil: Five?

Phil: One trailer we will perhaps be able to record our live impressions of is Max Payne.

Phil: It's a game that we've talked about and I think reviewed on the site.

Phil: Well, certainly we've reviewed Max Payne but which we can get into.

Tom: I believe we've reviewed all of them.

Tom: I think that was part of a trilogy.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Sounds right.

Phil: So Max Payne has been a part of this site for a long time.

Phil: Remedy, other people behind it.

Phil: And they did Alan Wake, they did Control, which I'm still downloading the patch to.

Phil: I actually got a warning from my ISP about it.

Phil: They didn't name Control specifically, but they said, you know, you've used up gig of your gig and you've got another days.

Phil: We're just saying, you know.

Phil: I might have to...

Tom: I think it might be due to the content of Control rather than the quantity of gigabytes.

Phil: Oh, no, well, they didn't mention Control specifically.

Tom: They didn't for plausible deniability.

Tom: But I think the subtext is you shouldn't be downloading potentially subversive media like that.

Phil: Is it subversive?

Phil: Have you played it?

Tom: Well, I assume it's probably positioning itself as being subversive when you are in an intelligence agency.

Tom: But like most such media than that, will probably end up being actually very much in support of the status quo.

Tom: But that's probably too much for an Australian ISP.

Phil: Did you just drop the term subsmurfive?

Tom: I think I said submersive.

Phil: OK, well, the show title is going to be subsmurfive anyway.

Phil: Remedy has announced that they're going to be doing full remakes of Max Payne and and putting them together into a single game.

Phil: And somehow they've managed to convince Rockstar, who owns the IP, I mean Remedy sold them the IP, and then they've come crying back to Rockstar, I imagine, saying, oh please, let us make our game again.

Phil: And guess what?

Phil: Rockstar said, not only are we going to let you make your game, we're going to publish it.

Phil: So Rockstar is, I mean, that's pretty cool, you know.

Phil: I mean, because Max Payne I don't think worked out very well for Rockstar.

Phil: So obviously, perhaps they have no interest in going back to it.

Phil: I just thought it was a pretty cool move on Rockstar's part to give up an IP that they own back to the originators to do what they want to do with.

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: Now what does it say about Remedy that they're going back to the well after having made Alan Wake and Control?

Tom: I think they're probably doing all right.

Tom: I think Control was somewhat successful, wasn't it?

Phil: Oh yeah, critically, certainly.

Tom: I think it's sold really well too.

Tom: So I think given they have made a new IP, they can probably return to an old one at this point.

Tom: If they went straight from Alan Wake to this, I think it would be saying, you would then be raising questions about their creativity.

Tom: But given that they did have control in between, I think it's alright.

Phil: I really want to go back and play Max Payne again.

Phil: All this talk about it has just made me relish.

Phil: And I really, we had a lot of fun with it.

Phil: I know that when we did an oral review for it.

Phil: But I'd love to go back to Max Payne right now and just sort of see if it's as good as I remember.

Phil: I think I played that on PlayStation

Tom: I think I had probably more fun discussing it than playing it from what I can remember.

Phil: Certainly the case.

Phil: I do remember a good scene on a football field though, a football pitch.

Tom: I think that featured some necklacing, didn't it?

Phil: Yes, the stadium level, yes, yeah.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, you know, this stuff goes around and around and around.

Phil: I mean Tomb Raider has been, a new game is going to come out for Tomb Raider.

Phil: And I wanted to learn more about it.

Phil: And so went on the Internet and I saw an article that was titled Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from new game.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: So I'm like, hey, so who actually is writing it?

Phil: You know, Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from the new game.

Tom: I think it's Terry Pratchett's daughter, isn't it?

Phil: I don't know who Terry Pratchett is, but Rihanna Pratchett is.

Tom: That would be his daughter then.

Phil: Who is Terry Pratchett?

Phil: Is he a British Prime Minister?

Tom: I think he was an English author of fantasy comedy novels, among other things.

Phil: Oh, like a Douglas Adams type thing?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay, all right.

Phil: Well, I won't hold that against him, I guess.

Tom: But certainly not as bad as Douglas Adams.

Tom: I actually read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy recently.

Tom: Which among gaming forums, is held up as one of the greatest novels of the th century, I would say.

Tom: And let's just say, it's probably one of the most disappointing novels I have read in my life.

Phil: Oh, come on.

Phil: I mean, I completely agree with you, but you've read a lot of novels.

Phil: You know what it is?

Phil: When I was going to school, we had a thing called Scholastic, where you could buy these books, you know.

Phil: The BBC has actually been really good about making these tangential pieces that go along with their TV shows.

Phil: So, for example, When the Young Ones was a big show, they'd have The Young Ones sort of a jokey kind of book that you get, you know, a kid's guide to The Young Ones or something.

Phil: You know, BBC has always been really good about putting out these adjuncts to their major media properties.

Phil: And Douglas Adams' book seemed to me to be like a jokey kind of, oh, this Monty Python scene was so funny, we've written a whole book about it.

Phil: It never seemed to me like it was properly written.

Phil: It seemed to be a commercial enterprise to cash in on something that was much funnier, but perhaps you shouldn't have written a whole novel about it.

Tom: I think that is a very accurate description of it.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So anyway, his daughter, Rihanna Pratchett.

Phil: Are you sure Terry Pratchett's not the manager of Manchester United?

Phil: It could just be Pratchett.

Phil: It sounds so British.

Phil: In any case, I read through this whole story.

Phil: I get to the final paragraph, right, after she goes on and on about, oh, Lara, you know, he's a strong woman, you know.

Phil: Oh, I want to see her strike out on her own and take joy.

Phil: You get to the final paragraph.

Phil: Pratchett has confirmed that she isn't working on this entry, but is excited to see what Crystal Dynamics comes up with.

Tom: Well, that's why we're hearing what she wants for it, not what she's doing.

Phil: It's bullcrap.

Phil: Tomb Raider writer reveals what she wants from New Game.

Phil: This is bullcrap.

Phil: comicbook.com, if that's your real URL.

Phil: And it is.

Phil: Anyway.

Phil: So anyway...

Tom: What's wrong with that headline?

Tom: She wrote Tomb Raider.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And she's revealing what she wants for the New Game.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: I don't see the problem.

Phil: But they go through...

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You're just trolling me now.

Phil: In any case, I thought that was bullcrap.

Phil: Especially when, like, there's so few video game news, actual writing going on, I should not have fallen for it.

Phil: I'm amazed that Square is going back to Tomb Raider.

Phil: And I'm glad that Crystal Dynamics is actually working on it because their Avengers game hasn't been a huge success.

Phil: They actually didn't have anything to do with the third Tomb Raider remake.

Phil: Did you know that?

Phil: Not the remake, but the reboot.

Tom: Crystal Dynamics, correct.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: I think that's one of the reasons it was good.

Phil: Oh, you liked the third one.

Tom: The third one?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I thought they didn't have anything to do with any of them.

Phil: No, no, they did the first two.

Phil: They did the first two.

Tom: I think I've only played the first one.

Phil: Tomb Raider

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Which was good, and the second one was okay, not great.

Phil: And the third one was not as...

Phil: anyway.

Phil: Is there anything you want to talk about in this unofficial trademark banner that's really actually covering news section?

Tom: Well, I think we should mention the reason that we did not record last week was due to a medical emergency.

Phil: Yes, I had hay fever.

Tom: In addition to that, while you were out with the hay fever, a particularly nasty case, as we just heard, I managed to finally catch coronavirus after, I think, is it three years now?

Phil: You went around snogging homeless guys for like three years trying to get coronavirus, and then you finally get it when it's not cool to get it anymore.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: And I was all into it.

Tom: I had three vaccine doses, which I think are pretty much equivalent to pre-order bonuses when it comes to coronavirus.

Tom: And it still took that long.

Phil: Did you get the steel box?

Tom: No, I didn't, but I did get several rapid antigen tests.

Tom: Which I think are worth a lot more money than steel box pre-order packages.

Tom: I did better there, I think.

Phil: Okay, so what do you think of Covid?

Phil: I mean, the story obviously was meandering.

Phil: In terms of its guttural impact on you, the visceral impact, if you will, to use a game review cliche, how did it go?

Phil: I mean, I'm not going to ask you to score it.

Tom: Well, I think we will have to whip out the die of destiny when we get to the end of the impressions, though.

Phil: How did it start?

Phil: First of all, is it first person, third person?

Tom: It's first person, but it then very quickly becomes second person, then third person, and so on and so forth.

Phil: Well, yes, because it spreads so quickly.

Tom: Yes, exactly.

Tom: But you have to take into account, I think, the number of vaccine doses and the third one was a few months ago.

Tom: So I think on average, if you were fully vaccinated, it's meant to reduce the severity of it about tenfold to the level of a flu, which I believe you have had a case of actual flu in the past.

Phil: Yes, I have.

Phil: My realtor gave it to me as a thanks for buying the house gift.

Phil: She came over and she said, I know I shouldn't be coming over.

Phil: I just bought these flowers for you, but you know, I've got the flu, but I just want to thank you.

Phil: And I was like, yeah, okay.

Phil: Because, you know, growing up in Australia, people say the flu, they mean a cold, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Oh, I've got the flu.

Phil: But it's like no, influenza is serious.

Phil: It's a very serious illness.

Phil: And basically, yeah, it transformed my world for about three days.

Phil: And at first, I was so sick that I couldn't go to work.

Phil: And anyone who knows me knows that being sick is not an excuse for not going to work.

Phil: I work.

Phil: It's what I do.

Phil: My life is defined by it.

Phil: And I was like, oh, wow, this is cool.

Phil: I am so sick.

Phil: I actually can't work.

Phil: I'll go downstairs and play video games.

Phil: But then I was so sick, I couldn't walk downstairs and play video games.

Phil: I was like, no, I'm not at work, so I must play video games.

Phil: And basically, I somehow managed to go downstairs and started having hallucinations.

Phil: Yeah, not a good scene.

Tom: Were they better or worse than games, these hallucinations?

Phil: Oh, they were terrifying.

Phil: And from people who I've talked to who have had bad trips, you know, the paranoia trips type thing, it was kind of like that.

Phil: But wait, we were talking about you, man, Covid.

Tom: Yes, well, we're getting a gauge of how bad or not so bad it might be, given that vaccines are meant to reduce it to a similar level of severity to the flu.

Tom: And we do have to add that the flu, as you said in Australia, when we say the flu, we generally mean a cold that is worse than average, but is probably still a cold.

Tom: But the flu, like a cold or like coronavirus, actually comes in a range of severities as well.

Tom: So you can actually have the flu and be completely asymptomatic or have the flu and it be equivalent to a mild cold.

Tom: So as with all sorts of viruses, there is a great range of how it actually ends up affecting you.

Tom: And I think the symptoms began on approximately Wednesday or Thursday.

Tom: And I did a test on Thursday because I had a meeting the next day.

Tom: And rapid tests are apparently not very accurate, as the result was negative.

Tom: But the next day after the symptoms rapidly got worse, essentially immediately after the meeting, I thought I may as well do another test the day after, when they continue getting worse.

Tom: And at that point it was positive, so I did another test as well.

Tom: At this point, the symptoms were probably equivalent to, I would say, a medium level cold, so a reasonable fever and a low level of nausea.

Tom: By the next day, the fever was significantly worse and the nausea was probably a little bit more severe, but I was also extremely dizzy if I was standing up or moving around.

Tom: So at that point it was probably equivalent to, I would say, probably a high level cold, not the most severe colds I've had, which would probably be getting in the realm of a medium to low level case of the flu.

Tom: But nevertheless, the fever and the runniness of my nose, which was so bad I had to lie down during the night with several tissues under my nose.

Tom: The entire time was bad enough that I could not sleep that night, which is at the upper level of what I would say cold symptoms for flus or congestion are.

Tom: At this point, there was no symptoms of coughing or anything like that at all.

Tom: And the next day, the fever immediately improved drastically and gradually improved over the next few days.

Tom: At which point, there were not very many symptoms at all.

Tom: And then the next day, the cough began, which was very mild to begin with and gradually got over the day progressively worse and worse to the point where that night the coughing was bad enough that I was unable to sleep.

Tom: And I've had quite a few different chest infections over my life.

Tom: And that I would probably put at probably a medium level one.

Tom: It wasn't particularly severe, bad enough for one night that I couldn't sleep, but I was still able to take deep breaths.

Tom: My lungs did not feel particularly heavy.

Tom: And it was a lot closer to something like asthma where it's extremely annoying, but unless the attack is really, really bad to the point where your throat is swollen enough that you're in danger of choking, it isn't actually that debilitating other than the actual coughing fits or a longer period of reduced oxygen intake as a result of it.

Tom: Whereas a bad chest infection where you've got a lot of congestion is extremely debilitating because you can't breathe properly at any point and if your lungs are full of phlegm, it makes you extremely weak as well.

Tom: The fever did make me...

Tom: did have a pretty weakening effect, but so far, not the coughing.

Tom: So after one night of pretty annoying coughing, enough that I was unable to sleep, again, improved, and since then, the symptoms have been going up and down, and it has been probably about a week and a half.

Tom: So there were two parts of it that were relatively severe, not even close to the worst sorts of viruses that I've had, but notable enough, certainly above average.

Tom: And two, though, I think the most interesting thing about it has been the way in which the symptoms go up and down and the longevity of it, because for a medium level symptoms, like I've had to the lower level, lower end of high just on those two days, for that, for me to have continued symptoms and for it to be effective now after about a week and a half of symptoms or a bit over a week and a half is pretty out of the ordinary as well and very much unlike most viruses I've had that have that level of severity.

Tom: And the way in which the symptoms have gone up and down is also very much like any other sort of virus I've had as well.

Phil: Well, I think it's courageous that you're recording the podcast while suffering with Covid.

Tom: Well, I actually made sure to record a song on the second day of worst coughing symptoms to take advantage of the voice and coughing because with the group I'm in with Arnie, we recorded a coronavirus themed song previously with some coughing in it that was not genuine coronavirus coughing.

Tom: So we could not pass up the opportunity to do the authentic version as well.

Phil: Well, for whatever reason, I'm thinking of you coughing once and then just putting that into the synth and doing one of those barking dog Christmas carols.

Phil: Arf, arf, arf, arf, arf.

Phil: That's probably way ahead of me in terms of artistic expression in that regard, I'm sure.

Phil: But the inconsistent...

Phil: So what you're telling me, the plot has been kind of inconsistent, it's been up and down, it hasn't been...

Phil: And that's unusual, your reaction to it.

Phil: But just to bring it back to me again, and I'm just only bringing this up because it might help you as well.

Phil: While I was using all those tissue boxes to stuff my nose when I had the hay fever the other day, for whatever stupid reason it occurred to me that a Carolina Reaper hot pepper would distract my body to the extent that it would stop having a hay fever reaction.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And so I don't have access to a Carolina Reaper, but I do have access to a Carolina Reaper chili sauce.

Phil: And so I had a tablespoon of that, and my body did not have any of the hay fever symptoms for about an hour afterwards that I could discern.

Tom: What were the symptoms your body did have though?

Phil: Profuse sweating, the inability to taste, and the ability to taste colors actually.

Tom: That reminds me actually, the day after the bad fever night, it took me about two hours to eat breakfast.

Tom: And because this is a symptom that I sometimes have from ME, I only realized in hindsight that the only part of the breakfast I was eating that I could taste, which contributed to the difficulty in eating it.

Tom: So I did also lose the majority of my sense of taste at some point as well.

Phil: That doesn't surprise me at all, because it usually takes you two hours to eat your dinner while we record our podcast.

Tom: I'm currently eating.

Phil: Two hours for breakfast, that's nothing.

Phil: Now I'm coughing.

Phil: Okay, so you're going to give this coronavirus a score?

Tom: Well, the one thing I will add is overall it's probably a medium level sort of thing.

Tom: So not too bad.

Tom: But that's with the vaccine.

Tom: I would say if the vaccine is as effective as advertised, I would certainly want to avoid it, to say the least.

Tom: But we will give it a score based on the post-vaccine experience.

Phil: It's kind of like playing a game, or seeing a movie you've already got the trailer.

Phil: It's going to have a diminished impact on you when you see it, I guess.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: It gets a out of

Tom: So a big flop, I'm afraid to say.

Phil: A massive flop for Coronavirus.

Phil: They needed a better name, honestly.

Phil: Like AIDS.

Tom: HIV has been pretty disappointing since they changed the name to that.

Phil: It has.

Phil: It's far less impactful, unfortunately.

Tom: I would say that is easily a fair score.

Tom: I think we said there were sleepless nights.

Tom: I think the worst virus I had, rather than sleepless nights, had me asleep for about weeks.

Tom: So I think out of if we're going for serious viruses, I think it maybe is too much for coronavirus.

Phil: Well, not to mention that the launch was delayed by years.

Phil: I mean, you were supposed to have gotten it years ago, and you would have thought...

Tom: Maybe that raised my expectations too high.

Phil: Too high, yeah.

Phil: Well, look, before we exit trademark banner and get into games, I did want to mention, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably already listening on a podcast player.

Phil: I recently upgraded to a podcast player called Podcast Addict, and it is absolutely fantastic.

Phil: It has features, unbelievable list of features that can help you.

Phil: And one of the features that we have is our shows now have chapter marks.

Phil: So if you're using a podcast player, because of our notes, if there's a section that you don't particularly like, you can just press the skip button.

Phil: It'll take you straight to the next chapter.

Phil: And obviously, I don't think any of our listeners are going to use that because everything we talk about is interesting.

Phil: But and it is interesting that I managed to speak about this after our coronavirus impressions.

Phil: But yeah, it's a cool thing.

Phil: So I encourage everyone to go to or look up podcast directory and look at the different players that are there.

Phil: They're all free and they have a lot more features.

Tom: Can you speed up podcasts beyond double speed?

Phil: Yeah, you can even do whatever you want.

Phil: And then even beyond double speed.

Phil: And one of the features of Podcast Attic I like is that there is a skip silence mode.

Phil: So it basically can just carve out the silences and it doesn't noticeably impact the listening quality of a show.

Phil: If you want to keep it at regular speed, but just save some of the pauses, it will do that for you.

Tom: Is this your excuse for no longer editing the show properly?

Phil: I do edit the show properly.

Tom: So you won't need that feature when you're listening to us.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: That's exactly right.

Phil: Okay, so you want to get into some games or should we just end the podcast now?

Tom: Well, we did cover coronavirus.

Tom: So everyone will now be just skipping to the end using this wonderful feature.

Phil: I love fevers.

Phil: I've only had a few fevers in my life and I think fevers are great.

Phil: I don't know what people have a problem with fevers.

Tom: What do you enjoy about fevers?

Phil: The endless sweating, the uncertainty as to whether you're going to die or not.

Phil: It's kind of a thrill.

Phil: It's like, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Phil: No, I'm just really hot.

Phil: You know, I like it.

Phil: It is suspenseful.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: You've already shared all of your experiences.

Tom: Do you also enjoy saunas?

Phil: I can tell you that I liked jacuzzis.

Phil: And I liked being in there way too long with the temperature way too high.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Phil: I also like driving very fast cars.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Tom: Do you have the heater on when you're driving them?

Phil: I do, actually.

Phil: I like to put the heater up to the highest level.

Phil: Regardless of the season.

Phil: I also like jumping out of planes.

Phil: Going, is this it?

Phil: Am I going to die?

Tom: That sounds like it will be a cold experience, though.

Phil: Okay, so anyway, on to games.

Tom: Let's go for the biggest one first.

Tom: Because I just remembered I played this.

Tom: That is Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: I thought you were going to go to one of my games.

Tom: No.

Tom: They're going for Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Is this your rant about Cadbury?

Phil: Or Hershey?

Tom: I assume you're familiar with the board game Monopoly.

Phil: I am, yes.

Phil: It's got the dude.

Phil: And he doesn't have a monocle.

Phil: He doesn't have a monocle, does he?

Phil: I think that's the thing that blew my mind.

Phil: Someone one day was like, he doesn't have a monocle.

Tom: I don't think he does.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Moneybags or Moneypenny or whatever his name is.

Phil: I'm a big fan of that guy.

Tom: He's got a moustache.

Tom: Do people associate a monocle with him?

Phil: Well, I think they're thinking about Mr.

Phil: Peanut.

Phil: For Australians not aware of Mr.

Phil: Peanut, I'd suggest you do an image search now.

Phil: I think they do a mishmash and they basically go, well, any rich like snooty guy has a monocle and a top hat, which the Monopoly guy does have a top hat, right?

Tom: He does and a moustache.

Phil: Yeah, and he's rotund.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: But no cane?

Phil: Does he have a cane?

Tom: Yes, he does.

Tom: Though I think it depends on the depiction of him.

Phil: And he shares that with Mr.

Phil: Peanut.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Peanut is a peanut with legs, top hat, monocle and a cane.

Tom: Who has the greater net worth?

Phil: Well, Big Peanut.

Phil: I mean, Monopoly dude, he lets you buy the stuff.

Phil: He's not even a proper monopolist.

Phil: You know, he's got all those train stations and such what.

Tom: But not enough to be a monopolist.

Phil: No, but Monopoly is great.

Phil: Everyone loves Monopoly.

Tom: Yes, well, I think I have played Monopoly at some point, but I never, I do not actually have any memory in detail of playing Monopoly.

Tom: And in the chocolate version of Monopoly, the instruction booklet...

Phil: Wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry.

Phil: I'm totally cutting you off.

Phil: I'm sorry.

Phil: This is ridiculous.

Phil: But do you know how Monopoly was made?

Phil: It was an indie game.

Tom: Was it originally an indie game?

Phil: It was an indie game.

Phil: It was one dude during the Depression who basically designed the game using his wife's tablecloth.

Phil: They were poor.

Phil: And he's like, you know, everyone's poor.

Phil: Wouldn't you want to play a game about these really aspirational things?

Phil: It's kind of like the ultimate power fantasy of

Phil: And so he took his wife's tablecloth.

Tom: I thought Hitler was the ultimate power fantasy of

Phil: That's funny.

Phil: And so they had a square like the card table as a kitchen table and they had the tablecloth.

Phil: And he basically drew, you know, all the squares on there and came up with the game and formulated it.

Phil: So it was a one man, auteur, indie game, tabletop experience.

Phil: Probably much like Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Another, you know, pinnacle of tabletop gaming.

Phil: And he totally came up with it.

Phil: And the fact that, you know, we're still playing it like a hundred years later here in is incredible.

Phil: And of course now it's just a cheesy cash in where you've got all these stupid versions of Monopoly like Nintendo Monopoly.

Tom: Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Nigel Farage Monopoly.

Phil: You know, Steam.

Tom: I think that's, is that the new Hitler edition?

Tom: The Nigel Farage Monopoly?

Phil: Steam Monopoly.

Phil: You know.

Phil: So anyway, you're playing this chocolate.

Phil: So is it made of chocolate or is it just about chocolate?

Tom: The money in it is chocolate.

Tom: Well, not the money.

Tom: There's two currencies you have.

Tom: One is money.

Tom: And then you also have chocolate pieces.

Tom: And the person with the most chocolate pieces at the end is the winner, rather than the person with the most money, which I assume is how normal monopoly works.

Phil: Is money not fungible and transferable into chocolate?

Tom: No.

Phil: I mean, it is in real life.

Tom: Is it?

Tom: You can go to the bank and trade, and trading your money for, sorry, trading your chocolate for money?

Phil: No.

Phil: Profoundly, you can go into the grocery store and exchange your money for chocolate.

Tom: Well, that would be the reverse.

Tom: You said is the chocolate not transferable to money?

Phil: It, oh, okay.

Phil: Yep, it's not.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: You can't go into a bank and deposit chocolate.

Phil: Well, you could, but security is probably going to take you out if you started to just deposit chocolate onto their floors.

Tom: In any case, the game has a wheel which you spin, which lands on different types of property and colours.

Tom: There's also a in the corner, an area where you get a certain amount of money each round.

Tom: Now, the instructions do not mention anything about pieces on the board or how you navigate the board.

Tom: It merely mentions how the spinning mechanism works.

Tom: It doesn't mention how the purchasing property mechanic works or how to distribute money or anything like that.

Tom: So essentially, unless you've already played Monopoly, how the game works is not explained whatsoever.

Tom: Additionally, if you have played Monopoly, how the spinning mechanic relates to navigating the board isn't explained.

Tom: So, the people who I was playing the game with, we essentially had to invent the rules ourselves.

Tom: And the result was a serviceable version of Monopoly combining this new spinning mechanic with navigation of the board using in fact the die of destiny.

Tom: And essentially using the chocolate solely as a way of scoring.

Tom: Now, the one issue with the game other than the nonsensical rules was also the chocolate because you would not necessarily want to be winning this chocolate that was contained within chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: Oh no.

Phil: Because it's still all stanky sitting in a store chocolate, right?

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: With I would say maybe % cocoa.

Tom: And probably % sugar.

Tom: So it's mildly sweet, vaguely chocolate textured edible supposedly edible substance.

Phil: Yeah, if you want to play Monopoly, I mean you can pick it up for PlayStation or amazingly.

Phil: I have the PlayStation version.

Phil: And it's actually pretty good.

Phil: I recall playing Monopoly on the fairly regularly.

Phil: And I'm amazed that it's not more...

Phil: I'm sure there's a mobile version.

Phil: But I've always been amazed by when I've gone to play a Monopoly game on a video game console or PC, how not crap it is.

Phil: Because you know, you don't have to line up a whole bunch of other people to play with.

Phil: It goes a lot quickly.

Phil: Because the biggest problem with the tabletop game is the pacing of Monopoly.

Phil: I think it's pretty incredible that you had to come up with your own rules.

Phil: So you managed to assemble a group of people that had never played Monopoly before and didn't know the rules.

Phil: You roll the die, you advance, you buy properties.

Phil: There's community chance or something, community chest, and then there's chance cards.

Phil: You go to jail.

Phil: You do not pass go.

Phil: You pass go, you collect $

Tom: And the jail mechanic.

Tom: Which I think is wholly unrealistic for a game in which you are playing a monopolist.

Phil: That you would actually go to jail, yes.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Phil: So do we have to roll the die of Destiny?

Tom: I think we do have to roll the die of Destiny.

Phil: Now, is this a branded?

Phil: Obviously with the crap chocolate that's in there.

Phil: This isn't branded.

Phil: This isn't Hershey.

Tom: This is branded.

Tom: This is branded.

Phil: But who's the chocolate brand associated with it?

Tom: Oh, I don't know what the chocolate brand was.

Phil: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Tom: It was Monopoly branded.

Tom: Right.

Tom: I don't think the chocolate company that was involved put their name to it.

Phil: No, I wouldn't think so.

Phil: It's just for people who are sickly addicted to chocolate.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: How did you come across this game, Tom?

Tom: A friend of my sister gave it to her.

Tom: So I am blameless.

Phil: Very good.

Tom: It gets a out of

Tom: So even worse than coronavirus.

Phil: That's fantastic.

Phil: I just wrote down that score and I saw the notes, Carolina Reapers.

Phil: Doesn't the Carolina Reapers sound like a college basketball team?

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: They have a kick-ass logo too, you know, the Reaper of Death, Death Reaper with the scythe.

Phil: Alright, well into games.

Phil: I mean, other than our tabletop games.

Phil: We need to get into real games.

Tom: I think you have been playing a similar money-making fantasy game.

Phil: It is a fantastic game.

Phil: Now, we were talking about emulation last week in episode

Phil: And Tom, you suggested that I could actually download games that I don't own so that basically emulation isn't just for legal backups of games that you own, but that you could also go and download a game that you don't own and play it on an emulator.

Phil: And I had to check this out just for our historical accuracy.

Tom: Research purposes.

Phil: Yeah, research purposes and for the show.

Phil: And actually, I was surprised.

Phil: There was not a lot of barriers of entry to me downloading a game that I didn't own.

Phil: So we are famous here for reviewing work simulators or job simulators.

Phil: And that's why you said, hey, go download Wall Street Kid, which I did.

Phil: It was released for the Nintendo Entertainment System in

Phil: And it was published by Sofel.

Phil: I don't know if they made it, but they released it in the US.

Phil: Sofel.

Phil: It was released in Japan as The Money Game which was a sequel.

Phil: Do you wish to guess what The Money Game was a sequel to?

Tom: Was it a sequel to The Money Game?

Phil: Oh, correct.

Phil: So you've heard of Kabachu Chou no Kinseki.

Phil: So this game is incredible.

Phil: So basically the premise is a lawyer comes up to you and says that you have inherited, you know, $billion, which is great because it's like, no, that's still a lot of money.

Phil: It's still only a quarter of what Elon Musk wants to buy Twitter for, but still $billion is a lot of money.

Phil: It's not like...

Tom: Probably also about a quarter of what he inherited as well.

Phil: Well, yeah, that's the thing.

Phil: The catch is they will give you $

Phil: You have to turn it into $million in a certain period of time in order to inherit the whole swag.

Phil: So your dead rich uncle is making you earn it by giving you half a million dollars that you've got to turn into a million dollars.

Phil: Now, the first thing that would occur to me to do would be to go to Vegas and put it on Red.

Phil: But he doesn't.

Tom: I was wondering if you'd mention that because Softball also developed Casino Kid.

Phil: Okay, so they might have a whole range of kid related shows.

Tom: It appears that they might, or games rather.

Phil: The best part about this is that when he gets to the premise, like he sets it up, the dude says, Oh, by the way, have a great April Fool's Day.

Phil: But remember, everything I just told you is no April Fool's joke.

Phil: Good luck.

Phil: I mean, that is fantastic.

Phil: That is completely superfluous and unnecessary writing.

Phil: And the whole time I'm playing it, I'm going, so am I going to, am I going to get to the end of this?

Phil: And then you're like, fuck you.

Phil: This is an April Fool's joke.

Phil: It's brilliant.

Phil: It's just brilliant writing.

Phil: Oh, one last thing, by the way.

Tom: Maybe that's the bad ending.

Phil: Or the true ending, because at the same time this film, this game was coming out, there was that film, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, about two rich Wall Street guys betting on, you know, effing up two people's lives, you know.

Phil: And yeah, it was great.

Phil: So now to get to the grist of the game, you then thrust into a setting that would be familiar to anyone who has played what was my game of the year several years ago, Papers, Please, by Lucas Pope.

Phil: Basically, you've got a desk, and on that desk is a limited number of things that you can click on.

Phil: So they have a Apple II computer.

Phil: They have a thing that I don't really know what it is, but maybe it's a telephone or something because it's your outside link to the rest of the world.

Phil: And there's a newspaper and there's a clock.

Phil: If you click on the clock, you can advance to the next day, much like you could in Papers, Please.

Phil: So if you're satisfied.

Phil: What was that other game that we played about the Hotel Dude?

Phil: It was a work simulator.

Tom: The Hotel Dude?

Phil: Yeah, you were working as a Hotel Dude.

Phil: Anyway, you'll figure that out.

Phil: We played lots of it.

Phil: In any case, you can advance the game to the next day.

Phil: And so you sit down, you've got a day and you've got a certain number of days before you can...

Phil: a certain number of days before you have to get up to a million dollars.

Phil: So you read the newspaper, just like you could in papers, please, and that would tell you what was going on in the outside world.

Tom: I'm just going to interrupt you there.

Tom: Is that hotel in the public house sense of Australia?

Phil: No, no, no, motel.

Tom: By which you mean bars.

Phil: No, motel, motel.

Phil: We talked about it quite a bit.

Tom: What were you pondering then?

Phil: It was a D artwork.

Phil: You were dead.

Phil: You were like owning a motel type thing.

Tom: That's the death and taxes game.

Phil: Yeah, that's it.

Tom: I don't think you were owning it.

Tom: You were living in it.

Phil: You were living in it, but you had a desk and you could click on it.

Tom: But I don't think you were running the hotel.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: Well, you were.

Phil: You were working there.

Tom: No, you were living there.

Tom: You were running the deaths in the world.

Phil: Oh, that's right.

Phil: Well, obviously, it was a very memorable game.

Phil: So back to this one.

Phil: You have an actual desktop.

Phil: And so the newspaper will say what's going on in the world.

Phil: And then basically Wall Street Kid, you're trading stocks.

Phil: And then so it's really cool because the people that localized this made the companies that you're trading in similar to real world companies.

Phil: So instead of Boeing, it's Boeing.

Phil: Instead of Caterpillar, it's Centipede.

Phil: Instead of Kaufman and Broad, it's Kaufman, like C-O-U-A-G-H.

Phil: Marinat, Pan Mam, Ratel toys, like a rattle instead of Mattel.

Phil: Re-Bucks, Charles Shlob, Strayhound instead of Greyhound.

Phil: I could go on.

Phil: But what was interesting to me is they're saying, hey, these are the hot stocks.

Phil: But I kind of was doing this.

Phil: The reason why I failed the first round through was because I was doing the site analysis going, oh, I know that Re-Bucks is not going to win the fight with Nike, so I'm going to short them.

Phil: And I know that Pan Am, as an airline, is going to go out of business, so I'm going to short them, even though they're telling me that it's a hot stock.

Phil: You can, I say gamble, you can invest in YBM or Yapple.

Phil: And I'm like, oh, well, clearly, YBM is going to have short term gain, but then ultimately going to fail.

Phil: And I'm going to invest in Xerox instead.

Phil: So it is an actual shares game.

Phil: You can buy and sell shares.

Phil: You have a set amount of money.

Phil: And if you follow the stock tips in the paper, you'll actually win.

Phil: But I was kind of reading between the lines in the stock tips.

Phil: All you really need to do is buy the hot stocks that they tell you to buy.

Phil: So that's the key part of the game.

Phil: But the side story is you've also got this woman who you have to keep on the line and try and impress her.

Phil: So if you say something like, hey, do you want to go to the park?

Phil: And she'll say something like, are you crazy?

Phil: Haven't you read the paper?

Phil: You know, there's a mad man going through killing everyone in the park.

Phil: So that's where the newspaper comes into it as well.

Phil: And so you've got to keep, I mean, it's a very sensitive game in terms of the feminist ideal.

Phil: If you spend a lot of money...

Tom: Being killed in a park.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I'm saying, like, if you spend a lot of money on this person or take her to shopping, then she will like you more.

Phil: You can take her for picnics when there isn't a crazy man in the park.

Phil: Or you can work out.

Phil: You can decide not to do other things and will say, hey, yeah, working out.

Phil: That's, you know, that's good for your mental, you know, head space as well.

Phil: Go ahead and work out.

Phil: Come back to work later.

Phil: So, yeah, as a work simulator, I haven't done the research yet, but I'm now going to look up, you know, Lucas Pope and Wall Street Kid to see how much that influenced him for Papers, Please, because this is very clearly a prototype of Papers, Please, which radically changes, you know, it blows my mind.

Phil: Does it blow your mind?

Tom: I don't think I've heard it compared to it anywhere else.

Phil: Yeah, I'm really going to have to look into it because this is it.

Phil: I mean, this is Papers, Please.

Phil: It doesn't have the political satire, but it does have Mad Magazine type parody of these companies.

Phil: And these companies, the parody is very close.

Phil: Like they have descriptions of these companies that is exactly what the original companies were all about in a jokey kind of way.

Phil: Yeah, so it's a very smart comment on Wall Street and basically privilege.

Phil: And I just absolutely love this game.

Phil: I think it has a password system, so it's not got the mod cons of gaming.

Phil: But this could certainly be converted to a mobile interface or anything like it.

Phil: It's not a big game.

Phil: It's not something that you pay $for.

Tom: And you are emulating it, so you can use save states and other various things.

Phil: Yeah, you can, and I realized that after I'd gone through the first one.

Phil: I had failed hopelessly.

Phil: I think in the first go through, I'd only raised $

Phil: And they do not give you a pat on the head in a participation medal.

Phil: They're like, no, you're fucked up, like we gave you a half million dollars.

Phil: How hard is this?

Phil: And the humor, yeah, the humor is there.

Phil: The game play is there.

Phil: And I actually found myself, I came into this like, oh, this is a joke review I've got to do for Tom.

Phil: But like before I knew it, I'd already played it for like an hour and a half and was wanting to play more.

Phil: So yeah, I thoroughly recommend Wall Street Kid.

Phil: And I don't know if there's been any newer versions of it.

Phil: I didn't really do any research for it outside of my review, but I'm prepared to give it a score without the Die of Destiny.

Tom: Please do.

Phil: If you can write down your estimate as to what score I will give it.

Tom: My guess is an out of

Phil: Well, you're supposed to write it down.

Phil: I am going to give it an out of

Tom: So I was correct.

Phil: Yeah, I was toying with Les because as a modern game, it's practically unplayable almost.

Phil: But the raw elements are so wonderful and great that it deserves a out of

Phil: It's held back by the time it was released,

Phil: Gosh, that's like years ago or something, isn't it?

Phil: Even more, years ago.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Yeah, so yeah, a fantastic time to revisit Wall Street Kid.

Tom: I think I may need to emulate it myself.

Tom: It sounds exceptionally fascinating.

Phil: Oh, it's fascinating.

Phil: Yeah, it is fascinating.

Phil: It's kind of like if you could find a prototype of Doom, you know, years before Doom came out, you know, or it's just incredible.

Phil: It blew my mind away.

Phil: It blew me away.

Phil: Are you familiar with the expression moist towelette?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Are you familiar with the expression moist towelette?

Tom: Probably the internet.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: Because a moist towelette is something that you would get from, like, KFC.

Phil: So usually back in the...

Tom: I'm familiar both with what a moist towelette is and also the term.

Phil: Well, why the internet?

Phil: You haven't seen a moist towelette in your real life?

Tom: I have, but you said the term as in someone might refer to someone or something as a moist towelette.

Phil: Just what a moist towelette is.

Tom: So you mean am I familiar with a moist towelette, not the term?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Because my kid's watching a show called PJ Mask, and there's a character in there called Owlette, and whenever I hear that, I just think, oh, I call it a moist towelette, you know, like if Owlette was to get wet, she'd be a moist towelette.

Phil: It's...

Phil: I'm just saying, I'm just reporting the facts.

Tom: Yes, you are.

Phil: And with that, I think you have another game you want to talk about other than Wall Street Kid.

Tom: So I think another interesting game, maybe not quite as interesting as Wall Street Kid, but nevertheless interesting, that I've played is Detention, which is a Taiwanese game, originally released in I think, and it is basically a side-scrolling horror adventure game.

Tom: But what makes it interesting is the setting.

Tom: It is set during one of Taiwan's recent periods of political instability, and as is the case in many instances in recent Asian history, said political instability is very much acted out to a large degree in the education system.

Tom: So it is set in a high school, and you are playing as a high school student, and it begins with you introducing several characters who you interact with, and all of a sudden the school is plunged into a horror setting, sort of in the vein of Silent Hill, and it's very much clearly inspired and influenced by Silent Hill, both with its very rusty aesthetic and also the way it presents the school in the horror version and non-horror version contrast.

Tom: And the gameplay basically consists of usually pretty simple puzzles that often boil down to just going through certain motions rather than solving puzzles themselves to get the items you need, but there are actually a few interesting puzzles throughout the game, including a puzzle again, obviously inspired by the piano puzzle in Silent Hill, where you have to work out what melody is being played and then play it.

Tom: And as you were going along, the protagonist's interaction with other students in the game and how that plays into the very paranoid political setting with dissent and betrayal and what characters were involved in what there is quite an interesting story.

Tom: And I think it makes great use of an interesting time period.

Tom: And I think the only disappointing thing is that a lot of the game is, as I said, just going through the motions to get items.

Tom: And the mechanic with enemies within the levels is sometimes, I think, a little bit awkward and isn't really, doesn't increase the tension like it should.

Tom: So as you are going through the school environments or outside the school, there are different types of spirits you encounter and the way you interact with them affects whether they catch you or not.

Tom: And this is actually quite interesting and clever.

Tom: So one of the spirits, which is a starving spirit, you have to feed rice, for example, and when you do that, then they're not a threat.

Tom: Another you can't look at, so when that appears, you have to turn your back to it and things like that.

Tom: So there are some clever things there, but the way they're used isn't that interesting in terms of pacing.

Tom: It's more like they're there as a way of preventing you moving on at a certain point, so that you have to find the information which tells you how to pass them and that sort of thing, so that it almost ends up feeling like they're a little bit of filler and just there to pad things out.

Tom: But even there, which is one of the more disappointing parts of the game, there is a fair bit of creativity.

Tom: And again, it also ties in nicely to the political situation as well.

Tom: So in terms of atmosphere, it is very rich.

Tom: In terms of gameplay, there is a fair bit of genuine creativity as well.

Tom: So, and aesthetically, while it leans very heavily on Silent Hill, it is an engrossing atmospheric experience as well.

Phil: So this is a side-scrolling game, and does it have a paper-cut type, not paper-cut, does it have like a craft paper type, marionette type style?

Phil: Looking at the images of it, that's how I imagine that it moves, but is it more fluid than that?

Tom: No, it isn't particularly fluid.

Tom: I wouldn't describe it as paper-cut.

Tom: I think a more accurate comparison, except obviously, actually a lot of it doesn't, more like a Punch and Duty style puppet quality to the movement, I would say.

Tom: And there are actually quite a few moments that cleverly use the puppet style of visuals as well.

Tom: So I would say that was probably what they were going for, and I think they nailed it as well.

Phil: I think the back story behind this game is really weird because it reeks of US State Department meddling because the game was banned in China, and then Steam...

Tom: Did you do an Easter egg, I think?

Phil: Well, yeah, exactly.

Phil: What's his name?

Phil: President Xi?

Phil: Xi Jinping?

Phil: Is this the game that had him represented as Muni the Pooh?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Because he's particularly sensitive to that.

Phil: So anything that represents him as...

Phil: presents him as being Xi Jinping, right?

Phil: President Xi?

Tom: Xi Jinping, isn't it?

Phil: Yeah, no, I think that's someone else.

Phil: But in any case, maybe Xi Jinping preceded President Xi?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: We are a bunch of idiots, obviously.

Phil: But in any case, this is really weird.

Tom: I just want to point out that I was in fact correct.

Tom: It is Xi Jinping.

Phil: Okay, so the game got banned, and then Steam, a bunch of spineless wimps, pulled it off their service.

Phil: And this is a game that's available on every service other than Xbox, by the way.

Phil: You can get this on Linux, Switch, PlayStation, you name it.

Phil: It's just not available on Xbox, PC.

Phil: Yeah, so Steam pulled it.

Tom: I think it has since been put back on Steam.

Phil: Probably because they got caught out.

Phil: And you go, well, why is this conspiracy guy talking about the State Department?

Phil: Well, this game, Detention, the one you were talking about, got a contract with Netflix.

Phil: And it's on Netflix now.

Phil: You can go watch it.

Phil: It's got a season.

Phil: Did you know that?

Tom: Yes, I did.

Phil: Yeah, so it's a highly interesting game to go and watch.

Phil: And like, or to play, rather.

Phil: Because there's not a lot of games that come out of Taiwan.

Phil: It's nothing that has come up here before.

Phil: But obviously games are being made everywhere around the world where there's computers and electricity.

Tom: Do you think the Netflix show, unlike the game, has some ostensibly anti-American status quo things in it?

Tom: Because the previous funding model of the CIA was to fund, essentially, the majority of American subversive media.

Phil: Right, right.

Tom: So the American pump music movement was all CIA funded.

Tom: Serious highbrow literature all CIA funded.

Tom: So I wonder if that is still the model today that we don't know about, or if they have moved to funding something else.

Phil: Well, that's why I thought this was a State Department play, as opposed to a CIA play.

Phil: It just reeks of that to me.

Phil: And I'm surprised that Steam lacked the political nuance.

Phil: I guess they were just responding to their Chinese overlords, like the NBA or whatever, whenever someone's told, hey, take this down, this is anti-China, because it's depicting our leader as Winnie the Pooh.

Tom: I think Steam hasn't really proven to be anti-censorship in any way, shape or form, because I don't think this is the first example of a game that has been removed by Steam.

Phil: No, certainly not.

Tom: And while Detention is back on Steam, I don't think the developers' other game is on Steam.

Phil: Devotion was the game that came before it.

Phil: And hey, I only know all this because you brought this to light.

Phil: So in and of itself, where did you play this game?

Phil: And how did you get it?

Tom: I played it on Steam.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: And so it's readily available now, obviously.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: And the other game is available to be bought from them directly.

Tom: It's just not on Steam.

Phil: Overall, is this a game that you'd recommend?

Phil: Was it a shortage game?

Tom: Yep, I think it was, according to my playtime, hours, so probably in reality, or hours long.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: And it held your interest for that time.

Tom: Yes, it did.

Phil: It seems a bit grim in terms of its aesthetics.

Tom: Well, it is heavily inspired by Silent Hill.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: And the game it actually reminded me of most was not Silent Hill, but another side-scrolling horror game.

Phil: Let me guess.

Tom: The Cat Lady.

Tom: Oh.

Tom: What was your guess?

Phil: This War of Mine.

Tom: No.

Tom: Not as grim as This War of Mine.

Phil: Which was, wow, that game, man.

Phil: That was a good game.

Tom: That was a great game.

Phil: Yeah, fantastic.

Tom: I think that was my game of the year, perhaps, when Papers, Please was yours.

Phil: Yeah, and it certainly was, I don't know that it was the same year, but I know that you included in your top of best games of the s our feature.

Phil: So, at gameunder.net.

Tom: Well-deserving of its place.

Phil: Absolutely, absolutely.

Phil: And I'm ashamed of myself that I didn't play it more.

Phil: It was just probably too challenging for me, honestly.

Phil: So, Cat Lady, that's not about The Simpsons Cat Lady, is it?

Tom: No, it isn't.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: I don't know if I've played that one before.

Tom: I don't think you have.

Tom: But that's another side-scrolling horror game that is most notable for featuring the work of David Firth.

Phil: Who's David Firth?

Tom: David Firth is originally a Flash animator on the internet, famous for Salad Fingers and I think the Adventures of Burnt Toast Man, I think it was called.

Phil: Oh yeah, I remember Burnt Toast Man.

Tom: Yes, and he has moved on to a successful career in animation.

Tom: But we will now give Detention a score.

Tom: Hopefully, it will be better than Coronavirus and what was the other one?

Phil: Eight.

Tom: No, Chocolate Monopoly.

Phil: That's it.

Tom: Which sounds like something that might give you AIDS.

Phil: That's terrible.

Tom: Unfortunately, Detention scores a one out of ten.

Tom: So when we do discover that it was funded by the CIA, State Department, my conscience will be clean.

Phil: Indeed.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: All right, Tom.

Phil: Well, with that, I think it's time to go on to another game that you've been playing, unless you want to talk about Port Patrol.

Tom: I want to talk about Port Patrol.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, look, Port Patrol is a franchise that if you don't have children, you've probably never heard of.

Phil: But it is a force.

Phil: It is an amazing, incredible force.

Phil: And it was a TV show that was developed by the guy behind Bob the Builder.

Phil: And it is a game for preschoolers.

Phil: And it's a game about transformation and power.

Phil: So you have these little dogs and then they have jobs.

Phil: And then as the series has gone on, I think they're in their th year right now, or at least they've surpassed their first years.

Phil: It's funded by a toy company.

Tom: So it's not funded by the State Department?

Phil: No, it's funded by Spin Master.

Tom: Looking at the way the show is presenting itself, I think it could be you've got a policeman, a fireman, all very normalizing sorts of jobs here.

Tom: You're sure this isn't State Department funded?

Phil: They also have a husky lesbian as well.

Tom: That's straight out of the CIA's modern advertising.

Phil: Exactly, it is actually.

Phil: But basically, to talk about these things just as games, Paw Patrol on a Roll was the first game that came out.

Phil: And it is basically a D side-scroller.

Phil: And it is a D side-scroller.

Phil: And it's pretty basic.

Phil: It's got fairly good graphics.

Phil: And you just basically go along.

Phil: It's a collectathon, needless to say.

Phil: But for my -year-old, she picked it up immediately and totally loves it because of the subject matter.

Phil: It propelled her onward to figure out how to use a modern video game controller.

Phil: So you're using the left analog stick, you're using all of the face buttons and all four of the trigger buttons, which to me is incredible.

Phil: And basically, you're just going through all of these levels that are too...

Phil: I'm not saying it's a bad game.

Phil: I'm saying it's a pretty good, engaging type collectathon game.

Phil: The levels aren't too long.

Phil: They're not too short.

Phil: They're relatively good.

Phil: And you want to go back and go back through and collect everything to get all of the rewards that you can.

Phil: So it was a valiant first effort, available for pretty much everything, except for Linux.

Phil: And I would give that game a out of because it was fairly tedious and not very advantageous or not very adventurous, rather, in its offering.

Phil: But still a good quality game that would engage someone of that age.

Phil: The sequel, Poor Patrol Mighty Pups, Save Adventure Bay, is fantastic.

Phil: It takes it from D to a top-down D world.

Phil: And so now you're engaging in basically like Mario Sunshine type level game.

Phil: And you're playing as all the different characters in this franchise.

Phil: But it's...

Tom: They have their own individual powers.

Phil: They have their own individual powers.

Phil: And it takes on more of a Lost Vikings type, problem-solving type thing.

Phil: So it's like, OK, I need the dude that has fire to melt the ice so that I can get the guy that crushes rocks to knock down the wall.

Phil: And I'm going to need the dog that can have helicopter powers to, you know, pick up the rocks after we've destroyed them, sort of thing.

Phil: And this just goes on and on and on.

Phil: So it's also a collectathon, but it has these musical elements as well that to someone who knows games, it's like, oh, they're totally riffing off Mario Sunshine or they're riffing off a Sonic over here in this ice level or whatever.

Phil: And it's just a really high quality game that I would give, you know, like an out of for.

Tom: So as good as Wall Street Kid.

Phil: Oh, yeah, pretty much.

Phil: I mean, pretty much for what they have to work with, because you've got the limitations of what they have to work with.

Phil: They have to make this game for someone who's through to probably

Phil: And you've got to make it challenging, but not too challenging.

Phil: But knowing also that these kids, just like when we were kids, they will play this game over and over and over and over again just because of the content.

Phil: Whereas, you know, we'd finish a game and move on to the next thing.

Phil: They are, they just keep playing it and playing it and playing it.

Phil: So, you know, it's really clever.

Phil: And I've got to take my hat off to the developer, Drakhar Studio, D-R-A-K-H-A-R Studio.

Phil: They're a Spanish developer.

Phil: And they've done a fantastic job with it.

Phil: It's really heartening to see, like, and the credit roll on this thing is hundreds of people.

Phil: Like, it's like Call of Duty.

Phil: It's incredible.

Phil: But just to see all the talents come together, you know, the artwork, the music, for a game that they could have just basically phoned in to see something that's engaging in terms of its puzzles as well as its quality is really good.

Phil: And, you know, as a parent, you feel good that your kid's playing this, but even more so, you feel good that they're learning how to use a modern controller, especially in that D game that will set them up for future games.

Phil: So, yeah, I'm really happy with it.

Tom: It sounds very good.

Phil: It is.

Phil: You know, I've played a lot of kids' games for review on gameunder.net, and, you know, you go into them.

Phil: People say, oh, are you just going into them to, you know, on them basically, because they're kids' games, because that was it.

Tom: Or just to collect trophies.

Tom: We know how much you love your trophy collection.

Phil: Yeah, no.

Phil: It's not about trophies or achievements, because, you know, like my caterpillar game that I played on Game Boy Color, for example, or what was that game, TV show, Everyone Loves Wanda?

Tom: Everybody Likes Chris.

Phil: Everybody Likes Chris.

Tom: Everybody Loves Raymond.

Phil: Everyone Likes Raymond.

Phil: Yes, that's another show.

Phil: There's another one.

Phil: That's so Raymond.

Phil: That's what I said.

Phil: So, you know, like when I reviewed That's So Raven, I didn't do it ironically or going into it like, oh, yeah, let me tell you how bad this game is, because I actually did like it, I think, and scored it on the podcast.

Phil: I go into it because these are professionals that are making these games.

Phil: You know, these are people that wake up, they think about this game for, you know, the three weeks that they made it.

Phil: But someone still made it.

Phil: It's still a creative element, and in these games, that's where you get to put subversive stuff.

Phil: That's where you get to put things that no one's going to pay attention to because it's a kids' game.

Tom: So what's the most subversive moment of Paw Patrol ?

Phil: Well, Paw Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay.

Phil: There is a character called Chickaletta, and there is a lady of color who is the mayor of Adventure Bay.

Phil: Yeah, there's not a lot of subversiveness in this particular one.

Phil: This is just a good game.

Tom: Maybe you should lower your rating then.

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

Phil: I actually am going to drop this down to a out of now that you've brought that up.

Phil: Because I have played these kids' games before because people who are making games, they're still getting paid to come in and do work, and they have good ideas, and they can hit on something good like they did with Wall Street Kid or that caterpillar game that I played.

Phil: So yeah, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, just because it's a kids' game doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be bad.

Phil: It's always interesting, and that's what this whole podcast and adventure has been about, is finding interesting games, not just the games that, you know, the commercially successful games.

Tom: I agree.

Tom: There's a lot of good children's content out there that is better than a lot of content for adults.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: There's no reason to assume that something will be more shallow or less aesthetically complex just because it's made for children.

Phil: I would say that if you have the choice to buy Poor Patrol on a Roll or Poor Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay, look, there's no going back from Poor Patrol Mighty Pups Save Adventure Bay.

Phil: Do not go back and try and fill the catalogue.

Phil: Just, you know, look forward to what they've got.

Phil: The game that came after apparently was a tie-in with the movie and has not gotten as good a credit.

Phil: But I'm thinking I'm probably going to dip in and give it a go anyway because it was made by the same studio at least.

Phil: So, yeah.

Tom: Before we move on, I'm going to make a proclamation on that point.

Tom: I would say since the end of modernism, in literature, children's writing is creatively much freer and thematically much more difficult than writing for adults.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: I was reading a children's book last night, a new one.

Phil: Like this is an illustrated children's book, not like young fiction or anything like that.

Phil: And yeah, you can write some pretty avant-garde poetry in an illustrated children's book and get away with it.

Phil: There's no constraints at all other than commercial constraints, I guess.

Phil: But once you've sold one good kids' book, you can basically do whatever you want, and they're going to print it and put it out to kids.

Tom: Whereas that is very much not the case in publishing for adults these days.

Phil: Oh, no.

Tom: Oh, no.

Phil: I don't even know what the modern publishing scene is for adults if it's not like World War II related.

Tom: Is World War II big at the moment?

Phil: It always is.

Tom: I think it's been big since

Tom: Since Monopoly.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: OK, you want to include another game in here?

Tom: Yes, we may as well talk about Sky Children of the Light, which I am still playing.

Tom: They recently just released another season, which they released, I think, under two weeks since the previous one ended, which I am not a fan of.

Tom: I think that removes the interesting moments where everyone stops playing and you get a break and a chance to build up anticipation and hype for the next season.

Phil: Well, you've got to give...

Phil: I'm going to call it an expansion, but you've got to give that expansion time to breathe.

Phil: You know, so let people just sort of dwell on it.

Phil: I mean, is this the sort of thing that you can go back, like after you've, quote, finished it, go back into and sort of just live in that environment, that new environment that they've created, like they did with World of Warcraft?

Tom: Yep, you can return to the environments, new environments.

Tom: You usually wouldn't because the main reason you're returning to environments is to collect candle wax.

Tom: There's only, I think, two of the environments or three that people generally return to that have a lot of wax in them.

Tom: But I think other than returning to them, the other interesting thing I think that releasing the new season immediately takes away is also a chance to play around with different outfits and have a longer time to explore the last lot of clothing items you unlocked.

Tom: Because unless you're buying seasonal candles as well as the Adventure Pass, which allows you to unlock everything, the last lot of items, you won't be getting that far away from the end of the season.

Tom: So it also gives you less time to enjoy the different outfits as well before you then unlocking yet more of them.

Phil: So then two weeks later they've released the new season.

Phil: What's the season called?

Tom: I think it was under two weeks actually.

Tom: I can't recall the title of this season, but the theme is that of a travelling theatre company.

Tom: And it has introduced, like the last season, a new gameplay mechanic.

Tom: The previous season introduced a swimming mechanic.

Tom: I can't recall if we talked about that or not.

Phil: No, the last one we talked about was a season of flight.

Phil: That was a season of abyss.

Phil: This is a season of performance.

Phil: So this is the th season basically.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So the interesting mechanic they've introduced here is Dark Souls style visual candles.

Tom: So before there was the Dark Souls style mechanic where you could leave messages for other players that just featured something you wrote.

Tom: Now you can basically record yourself doing something, leave that as a message that takes the place, takes the form of a candle.

Tom: And if a player comes up and opens lights that candle, then they watch you perform doing whatever you recorded, which as well as allowing you to record them using skits or whatever you want, is also actually very useful in levels where there are doors that require multiple people.

Tom: For example, in the Vault of Knowledge, there's a door that requires four players to open the door with each of them pulling the door up.

Tom: So you can record a message, a video of you pulling that door up.

Tom: And if another player comes along and plays that message, but there are only two other players in that player's server, so there's three players actually there and there's your message.

Tom: If they play that message and the three other players pull the door up, then the door will be opened.

Tom: So it's actually a very interesting and clever solution to multiple player doors and things like that, as well as allowing for a lot of creativity as well.

Phil: So the messages, they're not vocal, obviously, because this is an international game.

Tom: No, so if you want to include a statement in your message, you use the text chat feature that is there.

Phil: Okay, so it is a vocal recording that you leave.

Tom: Well, it's not a vocal recording, but you can write a message as well as record yourself doing something.

Phil: Because I was going to say we could leave episodes of our podcast there, and then when three people had listened to all minutes of it, that would unlock the door.

Phil: I'm just thinking about the show here.

Tom: Well, we could leave quotes from the show.

Phil: Or transcripts from the show, that's true.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Probably not full transcripts because there is a text limit.

Tom: But quotes we could do.

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

Tom: And another example of a creative and useful thing that people can do is one of the things that other plays are useful for is recharging your flying energy through calls.

Tom: So in areas where players are likely to run out of energy, a lot of people have been leaving messages where they've recorded themselves doing the long call which recharges energy.

Tom: So if you play that message, your energy will be recharged.

Tom: So it's a very clever and very useful mechanic that they've introduced here.

Phil: So how much of this game for you is just interacting with your online game?

Tom: Nearly % of it at this point.

Phil: So it's kind of like Fortnite in that it's a playground that you can just basically go to and feel comfortable with and interact with your friends.

Tom: It's basically like an instant messenger with activities in the background.

Phil: Is this a treadmill that the game company, that game company can't get off of at this point?

Tom: I would say so.

Phil: Is that good?

Tom: Well, they are still doing some creative things.

Tom: Arguably, I would say this and the last season have been two of the more creative seasons, but they've introduced, I think, the only similar level of changes to gameplay in a season was still what I think was the best moment in Sky, which was the mushroom picking mechanic, which may have come about through a glitch and became this whole extremely difficult artificial way of collecting candles.

Tom: So I think there's still room for that game company to be creative in it.

Tom: And given that this is in the vein of Journey, it's probably something they're interested in doing long term, given that they did go back to Journey with Sky in the first place.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And I don't mean this as a criticism.

Phil: I mean, I could level the same thing at the people that are making Fortnite, and it is not a criticism.

Phil: But you do just wonder at a certain level, at what level does it become masturbatory as a creator to just stick to the one thing, you know, to come in and every day just be like, yeah, this is the thing that's working, we'll just keep doing this.

Phil: Is there enough challenge within Sky in the seasons that they've created to really...

Phil: I mean, in the Rocket League, you know, Scionic, the Rocket League guys, I'm looking at Fortnite, I'm looking at, you know, a number of games at this point where it's the same thing over and over again.

Phil: I know it's not the same thing.

Phil: Like, is it a valid criticism?

Tom: I would say the reverse of your criticism is valuable, is that there's not enough room for masturbation in getting stuck in repeating the same game over and over again endlessly.

Tom: Given that masturbation in the creative sense is usually used as a criticism of being overly creative.

Tom: Whereas here, rather than playing into attempting to satisfy your own creative curiosity, here you're stuck in attempting to satisfy an existing audience, leaving you no room to masturbate at all.

Phil: Yeah, it's just interesting.

Phil: I mean, you think of Derek Yu, who created Spelunky, and it was just so iconic and successful that really, unless he comes out with something radically different, then he can't break out of that mold.

Phil: And I guess the guys that did Bastion and there are the games that followed.

Phil: They've successfully pulled it off.

Phil: They've been able to make a new game every time they bring out a game and be successful and creatively successful as well.

Phil: Whereas Derek basically just brought out Spelunky and everyone went, yeah, of course.

Tom: I would question that on Supergiant Games actually, because in the one sense that it's true, in the other sense, all of their games are built on an identical principle of looking at what is out there and creating something that is based on numerous elements of other games.

Tom: So in a sense, they're not being much more creative than the developers you've mentioned.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, and you do get that.

Phil: I mean, when you listen to a band, and we've talked about this before, you know, from one album to the next, they're still playing in the same sandbox.

Phil: And with a few exceptions, there are very few bands that completely break out of their mold on a regular basis.

Phil: So what is the message of Sky?

Phil: Like, what is the message of Sky?

Phil: Is it social connectiveness?

Phil: Is it like the whole Buddhist-type connectivity, spiritual connectiveness?

Tom: That actually reminds me, which I have to bring up, Season of the Abyss, because I'm sure we did do first impressions of it.

Tom: And we talked about how thematically the interesting that was compared to some of the recent seasons up to that point.

Tom: I have to say, well, aesthetically it had a very enjoyable whale-eating player-style ending, very fitting for the setting.

Tom: Thematically, it did not go anywhere, very bizarrely, because it began with a setup for a very potentially environmentalist-themed storyline with the player helping a group of prospectors looking for resources in this ocean area.

Tom: And that went nowhere, which is very bizarre, given that that was a theme of arguably other moments in Sky and certainly Journey.

Tom: That was arguably one of the main themes in Journey, was the exploitation of the natural environment to the point of disaster.

Tom: Here, they essentially had that whole story narrative being set up, and it ended with that essentially going absolutely nowhere.

Tom: So thematically, that was a rather disappointing ending to the season of Abyss.

Phil: So what is Sky about?

Phil: I mean, it's got a very small team, and they're sticking with it.

Phil: It's obviously commercially successful, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do seasons of it.

Phil: And I think it is really cool, first of all, because when this game came out, no one knew it was going to be viable, and they've made it viable.

Phil: It took them forever to get to...

Phil: They went pretty rapidly from iOS to Android.

Phil: It took them forever to get to Nintendo Switch, and they haven't ever hit the PC.

Phil: I wonder why that is.

Phil: I wonder if it's because they think going to that scale would be disruptive.

Phil: I don't know if they think that their infrastructure can support the PC and the population that would come with it if they would, for example, hit Steam.

Phil: I mean, that is a very interesting question.

Tom: That is quite possibly the reason, because it can barely support the number of players it currently has.

Phil: That's fascinating.

Phil: Is that not fascinating?

Phil: That Microsoft that just snapped up a thousand companies, including Activision Blizzard, that someone wouldn't go to Jenova Chan and go, hey, you've got an amazing dream here.

Phil: We want to take it beyond.

Phil: You know, you guys have donated millions of dollars to charities through the different campaigns that you've run.

Phil: You can do even more good if we were to be able to put this in front of X million, tens of millions of people.

Phil: We'll buy you.

Phil: We'll leave you completely alone.

Phil: You can do whatever you want.

Phil: And you can have a bigger platform for the good that you want to do.

Phil: That is something that would happen.

Phil: This is a wildly successful game.

Tom: I think it's too close to an MMORPG structure rather than something like Fortnite or Destiny or Apex Legends where you'd be more likely to see that happening.

Tom: Because you did see that sort of thing happening at the peak of MMORPGs.

Tom: And the result was almost always a failure.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So I think the lesson has been learned.

Phil: I just think that this is a no-brainer purchase for Epic that went out and bought Psionic for Rocket League.

Phil: This seems to me to be something that Epic would be able to buy, nurture and leave alone and just blow open.

Phil: But again, you're exactly right.

Phil: The format doesn't allow it.

Phil: The format doesn't allow it unless you were to splinter the servers so that you could maintain that intimate thing.

Phil: It's kind of like a secret community, really, and probably something that you wouldn't want to see blown wide open.

Tom: And maybe they don't want to blow it wide open for creative reasons as well.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So I'm going to ask the question one more time.

Phil: What is it about?

Phil: What is the message of this game?

Phil: Because they went from Flow to Flower to Journey to This, which is an extension of Journey, and all of those games have been about, you know, a journey.

Phil: It's been about a journey, but also connectiveness, which to me is just like, that's slam dunk Buddhism, but and like maybe I'm just reading it wrong.

Tom: Well, I would say it is very much an expansion of the content of Journey.

Tom: It is referred to as a spiritual successor, but it is essentially a continuation of Journey thematically.

Tom: With the addition of capitalism, I think the major theme of Sky is the whale player and exploiting them for every penny they can get.

Tom: So I think rather than Buddhism, I think the message of Sky is mindfulness.

Phil: That's pretty cool, man.

Phil: So we got to the bottom of it.

Tom: Yes, I think we did.

Phil: So with that, I think we could probably wrap this up at this point and save some of these other games and stories for the next time that we play.

Tom: I think we should return briefly to Gran Turismo

Phil: Gran Turismo really?

Tom: Yes, because there was another amusing gameplay mechanic in it that is indicative of some of the more unscrupulousness and absurdity of the in-game economy, and that is roulette spins, which are supposed rewards for driving a certain distance each day.

Tom: If you drive, I think, kilometres in-game per day, you receive a roulette spin, which features five different potential prizes, one of which is a very small amount of credits.

Tom: If you have a low-value roulette spin, I think it's as low as credits, which is essentially nothing.

Tom: Now, as a test...

Phil: credits is nothing.

Tom: Yes, it is nothing.

Tom: And every...

Tom: where I'm at currently, which is still very early on, a reasonable race victory without getting the clean race bonus is credits.

Tom: So credits is very little.

Tom: Anyway, I accumulated roulette spins to do a test because as you get them, you very quickly notice that you almost always get the lowest value prize.

Tom: So I did in a row to find out, out of spins where there are possible prizes, how many of them were not the lowest prize?

Tom: How many out of would you guess were not the least value prize?

Phil: This is very important research.

Phil: So you accumulated all these spins until you had

Phil: And now you're going to spin them.

Phil: And they're supposedly going to be random.

Phil: So you could get...

Tom: You've got a in chance of the lowest prize.

Tom: So if you've got a in chance for one result out of you'd expect that to occur a couple of times, I think, mathematically speaking.

Phil: That is exactly right.

Phil: You'd expect that to happen twice.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: So how many times do you think out of spins did I get the lowest value prize?

Phil: Six.

Tom: Seven.

Phil: I was going to say seven.

Phil: Then I...

Phil: yep, okay.

Phil: Seven.

Tom: Sorry.

Tom: So clearly, the odds are against the player here.

Phil: Against you.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: I think demonstrating the disdain that Polyphony Digital has for the player at this stage.

Phil: Money changes everything, man.

Tom: And the one other thing I'd like to mention is as well.

Tom: You mentioned some of the other non-jazz musical content of Gran Turismo such as Snoop Dogg.

Tom: Garbage.

Tom: Garbage.

Tom: Nirvana.

Tom: I think it was another one.

Phil: Nirvana wasn't in there.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Anyway, I just mentioned the jazz.

Tom: Yes, you are correct, of course.

Tom: It does indeed contain rock music, even some things you could perhaps vaguely describe as hip-hop beats.

Tom: But I think the only thing from any Gran Turismo soundtrack, certainly that sticks in my mind, is the jazz selection.

Tom: I think for the other types of music, including the classical music, they're usually not the most engaging examples of those genres.

Tom: Whereas when it comes to the jazz, it is a step above something like Kenny G.

Tom: Whereas I think for other genres, that's the sort of equivalent you find in Gran Turismo soundtracks.

Phil: I'd have to agree with that.

Phil: I just was blown away that you play as much as Gran Turismo and couldn't remember Garbage's soundtrack, but maybe that's just me.

Tom: And that does remind me of another interesting music selection.

Tom: I was playing a little bit of Tekken Tag Tournament and was amused to find that the theme song for one of the stages was by Snoop Dogg.

Phil: What wasn't at that point?

Phil: Or what isn't today, for that fact?

Phil: Okay, hey, the name of that game, that psychological counselling game that I can't stop playing, is Kind Words.

Phil: Have you bothered to even download or try it?

Tom: I think at one point I downloaded it, but I haven't tried it yet.

Phil: I think it's profound.

Tom: And it's currently not installed.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's a profound interactive experience.

Tom: Before we move on, there is one last thing I want to say about Gran Turismo which is, I think, a change for the series, but not necessarily a negative change.

Tom: And that is the, not the structure of the campaign, but the way, the sort of player behaviour they're encouraging.

Tom: I mentioned that the roulette rules, roulette spins are unlocked after only kilometres.

Tom: Now, that's only three or four races.

Tom: So there is a heavy encouragement, I would say, for short play sessions.

Tom: And if you, depending on how you want to play, it's almost like once you get to that point, then there is less encouragement to continue playing for longer, because once you get a single roulette spin, you don't get a second one for when you hit kilometres, for example.

Tom: So at that point, you're wasting kilometres, and you may as well stop playing until the next day.

Tom: Or at least that will be the sort of thing they will be encouraging if roulette spins were not a punishing experience every time you used one.

Phil: The more you describe this game, the more I am completely disinterested in it.

Phil: It sounds like every other piece of garbage that is infiltrating AAA gaming.

Phil: You know, massive downloads, the hard sell after a short period of time for, you know, in-store purchases.

Phil: They're killing games.

Phil: This is garbage.

Tom: Absolutely, but the one thing about it is, which makes it actually less annoying and intrusive, is it is so badly done.

Tom: As I said, for example, once you get to that point, you stop getting rewarded for continuing to play, as opposed to if you're playing...

Tom: if you're playing Forza Horizon, which has a barrage of things that it wants you to do every single day to try and get you to play it as long as possible.

Tom: And the microtransactions are so ridiculous and absurd, there's really no encouragement to do it.

Tom: Who is going to buy a single car for $?

Tom: Probably some people will, but virtually no one.

Phil: No one with a healthy mental state.

Tom: Yes, whereas in Forza Horizon, if there's a car you really want that's part of a car pack for $that has maybe cars in it, and there are quite a few other cars you're interested in there, then you'll be tempted to actually get that.

Tom: So the whole monetization of the game and encouragement to get players to play in a certain manner with the roulette spins that are a punishing rather than rewarding experience, unlike the Forza Horizon spins, is so badly done, it ends up being less intrusive than other games, even though it has been shoehorned in there, unfortunately.

Phil: I just see this as complete abuse.

Phil: I mean, you know, these games that are capitalizing on whales spending $on the game, it's abuse.

Phil: It's absolute abuse.

Phil: It should be illegal.

Phil: And it's certainly left to their own devices.

Phil: The major publishers of video games, with a certain few exceptions, are absolutely counter to everything that what video games is about.

Phil: And you can certainly say that about book publishers.

Phil: I fully appreciate that.

Phil: It is % true about music publishers.

Phil: I can fully appreciate that, which is why people that own the presses, you know, should be executed.

Phil: And that's why I love itch.io.

Phil: That's why I love the independent game movement.

Phil: And for me to actually think that a major publisher of a game franchise that I actually once loved, like Gran Turismo, is capable in this millennia of producing something of merit, you know, is absolutely ridiculous.

Phil: And I'm the one that should be ashamed for assuming that they would be capable of producing an entertainment product that I'd be happy to pay for without all of these hooks, you know, in my cheekbone.

Phil: It's offensive to me.

Tom: And the other thing that is so frustrating about it is that it is in a Gran Turismo with revolutionary gameplay for consoles where you have a legitimately good sim physics model with a Gran Turismo style career mode.

Tom: There is no other game like this.

Tom: And it's Gran Turismo career mode that has finally found its identity for the first time since Gran Turismo with the whole menu book thing.

Tom: And yet, they've stuck this stuff on top of it.

Phil: They're using developers as prostitutes, and they're big pharma that's got the cure, and it sucks.

Phil: And I'm sorry I'm so animated about this, because it just angers me, because gaming used to be such a fun enterprise from the publisher down.

Phil: The publisher knew that people loved games, and they loved games as much as the people that played them.

Phil: But what you're describing to me, Gran Turismo is like a casino.

Tom: It is.

Tom: The roulette wheel is rigged against you.

Phil: I mean, it couldn't be any more transparent.

Phil: That sucks.

Phil: Anyway, the name of the...

Tom: I have seen amusingly some people on the internet mentioning that the roulette is so unrealistic because it is rigged.

Tom: I'm not sure if they're familiar with casinos and the way gambling works.

Tom: But getting the worst result only out of times on a roulette wheel is doing pretty well, I think.

Phil: Pretty charitable.

Phil: Maybe that's how they sleep at night.

Phil: I want to...

Tom: We're better than an actual casino.

Phil: I was going to say I want to meet these people and kick their brains in, but I wonder who they are.

Phil: I wonder if the people that are contorting Gran Turismo are in America or Japan.

Phil: I struggle to think they're in Japan, but that just probably is my stereotypes kicking in.

Tom: Maybe they are predominantly from Japan.

Tom: Japan is...

Phil: Yeah, home to the Yakuza...

Tom: .

Tom: the world where there are Yakuza Pachinko games.

Phil: Is that it for Gran Turismo ?

Tom: There is one tangentially related thing to Gran Turismo I do have to bring up, because there was an Australian Grand Prix for the first time in many years, which exposed me for the first time to the fascinating world of baldness prevention, or not baldness prevention, baldness prevention and the reconstitution of hair ads, which are a lot different to the last time I saw baldness related ads, perhaps in the previous Australian Grand Prix a few years ago, where they were essentially advertised as either get your hair back to be like Shane Warne, which you can't do anymore today for obvious reasons, or get your hair back so that you can have an amazing wife and a sports car and that sort of thing.

Tom: That's how I remember baldness related ads to be in the past.

Tom: Today, baldness ads consist of a man standing in a hall with dark depressive lighting, holding a photo of himself when he had hair and placing it on the wall as the lights are turned up and the narration explains how this poor bald man was such a disgusting inhuman creature as he was balding, that he was so ashamed, rightfully so, that he had to take down photos that he had of himself throughout the house when he had hair.

Tom: But now that his hair has regrown and he is human again, he can replace these photos from his past when he was human, and be human once again.

Tom: Or another man standing taking a photo with his parents, as the narration explains, that he used to be a wonderful photographer for his parents, because he was such an inhuman, shameful and despicable creature while he was balding, that he was rightfully taking himself out of every photo, so that he didn't ruin his parents' life, and force them to hide any photos they had of themselves, in case their friends and family saw that they had a balding son.

Tom: Now, with a wonderful full head of hair, he can take selfies with his parents once again, and return to the human world.

Phil: Well, maybe Jada Pinkett can watch a couple of those ads and figure it out, because baldness has gone from being a legitimate source of humor to being a bloody disorder.

Phil: Anyway, hey, the name of the game I was trying to remember was Kind Words, which is something I'd thoroughly recommend.

Phil: I know that you've probably downloaded it, but not installed it yet.

Phil: It is, you know, I think it's a profound, the most profound form of communication since AOL Chat was introduced, or IRC was introduced more appropriately.

Tom: Have you come across any baldness-related messages on it?

Phil: Probably.

Phil: I mean, I've responded to a few thousand patients at this point, unpaid.

Phil: Oh, actually, I am paid in stickers.

Phil: They don't cost me a cent, by the way.

Phil: So unless you've got any last parting words, then this is the end of episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Please visit gameunder.net.

Phil: Visit our review section where we've posted up some of Tom's best retro reviews that have been hidden for well over a decade.

Phil: We resurfaced them and they're available there.

Phil: You can go back and listen to our back catalogue.

Tom: While we're on the topic of comedy, you will hear today, comedians everywhere saying you couldn't get away with that today.

Tom: Here we are dipping into the vault from years ago and fearlessly republishing content that other pathetic outlets couldn't get away with today.

Phil: Fearlessly.

Phil: That is exactly right.

Phil: I mean, even we didn't talk about it, but with Max Payne and I'm pretty sure they're going to do these remakes and pull the originals off the scene because there's some, you know, in a quote inappropriate stuff in that as well.

Phil: But yeah, our whole catalogue's up there.

Phil: You want misogyny.

Phil: You want racism.

Phil: We got episodes.

Phil: They're all up there on the web.

Tom: While we're on the topic of...

Phil: We're not on any topic...

Tom: .

Tom: the sheer cowardice of the creative world outside of gameunder.net.

Tom: Can I just add?

Tom: Yes, I'm going to.

Tom: No one talked about the fact that you have comedians terrified that someone got slapped and that this is going to destroy the world of comedy because they are afraid to go on stage because of the violence they are facing.

Tom: Motherfucker!

Tom: If you are afraid of fucking getting slapped because you want to say something in your art, what the fuck are you doing?

Tom: Going to a different job, you have no place in creativity.

Tom: We live in a world where people are beheaded or have been beheaded in the past for being willing to stand by their creative statements.

Tom: If you are afraid of getting slapped, piss off and get another job, you are probably not contributing anything creative worth a damn.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Look at those French dudes that did the pictures of Mohammed.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: I mean, have a take and stand by it.

Phil: I think that's our new motto.

Phil: Thanks for listening to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg and I have been joined by my host.

Phil: I am Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Tom: My sign off is now a cough.

Game Under Podcast 142

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

A bonus episode to get us through Easter, a retrospective of the Grand Theft Auto franchise through GTA5.

Transcript:
Phil: Oh, hello.

Phil: It's Phil Fogg here.

Phil: I'm gonna tell you a story.

Phil: So buckle up.

Phil: So, about nine years ago, Tom and I sat down to talk about Grand Theft Auto, and basically the history of Grand Theft Auto, up to the point through Grand Theft Auto IV.

Phil: A new trailer was about to come out for Grand Theft Auto V.

Phil: It's been almost nine years since then, and nothing much has happened with Grand Theft Auto V, other than its full conversion to an always online game.

Phil: So, with a new Grand Theft Auto in the offing, I thought it was time to release this fully re-digitized version, and a much better quality episode of episode four of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters.

Phil: And that's what gave us DMA, which was the DMA, which is the company that has become Rockstar North.

Phil: The DMA stands for doesn't mean anything.

Phil: And they made games like Lemmings, which was probably one of the top games of all time, I'm guessing.

Tom: Yeah, I played the hell out of the shareware version of that.

Phil: That was made by Dave Jones, who went on to make Crackdown, and then APB, the failed online MMO, basically open client.

Phil: It actually isn't that failed.

Phil: I mean, it's still surviving right now.

Phil: It's just his company failed real time or whatever it was called.

Phil: And then they went on and made Grand Theft Auto and

Phil: And of course, this is also a Dave Jones project.

Phil: It was the only GTA not set in the USA with their expansion with the London set for the second game.

Phil: And then they stumbled along and made the Ngame Body Harvest, which is really the prelude before Grand Theft Auto

Phil: This was a game where you could hijack vehicles, get in and out, perform violence.

Phil: So it was basically like a third person isometric type view.

Phil: Not as pronounced, truly isometric, not top down like the early GTAs, but you could run around, hijack cars and basically just do what you want.

Phil: And God said, let there be light.

Phil: And there was light.

Phil: And this brings us in to Grand Theft Auto III.

Phil: This was a game that at Ethat year, most gaming journalists said that they were there and they saw Halo and that's what they were excited about.

Phil: And then Rockstar Take-Two had this little tiny stall up to the side for Grand Theft Auto III that no one paid any attention to.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto III, of course, had the silent protagonist Claude and really just completely revolutionized the gameplay.

Phil: Will Wright famously said that he played it and he was like, oh, wait, so I can basically get into any car I want.

Phil: I can be an ambulance driver.

Phil: I can be a firefighter.

Phil: I can be a taxi driver.

Phil: I can walk around.

Phil: I can do what I want.

Tom: And murder prostitutes, don't forget.

Phil: Murder prostitutes, taking money back.

Phil: And I mean, just probably, I mean, just a great game.

Phil: And then a year later, they released Vice City.

Phil: And of course, San Andres.

Phil: And...

Tom: They're two greatest works.

Phil: Vice City and San Andres, yeah.

Phil: I like San Andres best.

Phil: It does have a game ending bug in the original PlayStation release of it, which is what stopped me from beating that game.

Tom: That's your excuse anyway.

Phil: That is my excuse.

Phil: Have you beaten San Andres?

Tom: Oh yeah.

Phil: Okay, the mission where you were in San Francisco and you have to fly the little planes around and blow up three dudes' vehicles.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: What format did you play that on and how did you go in that mission?

Tom: PSand this was many, many years ago, so I have absolutely no idea.

Tom: I do remember though that I deliberately avoided getting the game ending bug.

Phil: Oh really?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I knew about it before playing, so that probably helped.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, the bummer thing is, is that that mission comes early in the game, fairly early in the game.

Phil: I mean, you do have to get up to San Fierro.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But I tried it and I failed at it.

Phil: I'm like, okay, whatever.

Phil: It's just a pointless little side mission.

Phil: It doesn't matter.

Phil: I went on with the complete rest of the game, you know, going to Vegas, the whole thing.

Phil: I was probably at that point hours into the game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And basically, it's like the last icon on your map.

Phil: So you have to beat it before they'll unlock the final San Andreas levels.

Phil: And I tried everything.

Phil: I tried just playing it to death.

Phil: I probably played for like two weeks straight.

Phil: I tried cheats that would, you know, slow down the clock, speed up your playing.

Phil: I couldn't beat it at all.

Phil: Which is the greatest shame because it was up to that point my favorite GTA era.

Phil: Now, of course, in that time, there were also two other lesser played GTA games, Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories, primarily released on the PSP and then later released on the PS

Phil: Did you play those ones?

Tom: No, I did not.

Phil: Yeah, those were really my favorites.

Phil: My favorite GTA game is Vice City Stories, the one that features Phil Collins.

Tom: So you like it even more than San Andreas?

Phil: Yes, I do.

Phil: It was the last one they released, and it uses the same engine and everything else.

Phil: And it was really the high point of the GTA series.

Phil: Being from Los Angeles, obviously, I like the San Andreas game for many, many reasons, and the soundtrack and all the rest of it.

Phil: But Vice City Stories was really them understanding completely what it was that they were doing.

Phil: And it was the last game they made on that engine and the best game I found in the GTA series.

Tom: They've got a reputation for being a lot more focused than the console games.

Phil: Yeah, very much so.

Phil: And that's because, of course, they were released on the PSP initially.

Phil: So they had the UMD, so they're a lot tighter.

Phil: And a lot less flab, you know.

Phil: God saw the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

Phil: So, then you have GTA

Phil: And, I mean, it's amazing when you go back and play GTA now, like, Nico's using a feature phone, not a smartphone, you know.

Phil: It does seem like an age ago.

Phil: They radically changed the driving in that game.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: They made it a lot heavier and less arcade-y.

Tom: So, it's still very arcade-y, but yeah.

Phil: Yeah, which initially I chafed at, but eventually grew to love.

Phil: What are your thoughts, capsule summary of GTA ?

Tom: Well, as a GTA game, I think it is a complete and utter % failure.

Tom: Now, the thing is, what they were doing, as far as I can see, is they basically realized, okay, our mechanics in GTA, the shooting, the driving and everything, are all basically a load of crap, right?

Tom: There's nothing particularly good about how our cars feel to drive in the old GTA games, and the shooting was absolutely horrible, right?

Phil: I completely disagree.

Phil: I found the driving, I mean, it wasn't burnout quality.

Tom: Yeah, no, no, no, no.

Tom: I'm saying in the old ones.

Phil: No, I'm talking about the old ones.

Phil: Go on.

Phil: In the old ones, I mean, it wasn't like Sleeping Dogs quality where it is on the standard of burnout, right?

Phil: But it was still enjoyable.

Phil: I mean, they had the great physics.

Phil: That's where I learned how that if a cop car is in front of you, you basically just tap the rear near the trunk and it will spin out.

Tom: I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable to drive.

Tom: I just mean that there wasn't a great amount of depth to it, right?

Tom: It was a very simple system that was designed around getting the most fun of it from not just the simple joy of driving, but what you were doing, right?

Tom: So you could play around with the physics, etc.

Tom: All the cars sort of felt the same except for some sports cars.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: The sports cars felt light, right?

Phil: As a sports car does, and flighty, and if you went too fast around a corner, you'd flip out.

Phil: The heavier cars, the older cars, like the station wagons, had poorer control and felt heavier.

Phil: If you had an armored car, you knew you were driving an armored car, you'd be spitting out exhaust and be slow and heavy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, I thought it showed a pretty nuanced demonstration of different automobile.

Tom: But that's the thing.

Tom: It's got like several archetypes in it, right?

Tom: It's got...

Phil: It's got about four archetypes.

Tom: But there's much more than four different cars in there, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So once again, take this as a slight exaggeration, what I'm saying, because I don't disagree with what you said there.

Tom: But in GTA IV, they took that to a much higher level where most of the games felt, most of the cars felt very different, even within their own class of cars, right?

Tom: So there were sedans and hashbacks, just normal cars that felt quite different.

Tom: And there was a big difference in most of the sports cars, et cetera, right?

Tom: You don't think so?

Phil: No, I do think so.

Phil: I felt that in GTA IV, I mean, if you were driving a Mercedes Coupe, you really felt like you were driving a Mercedes Coupe, right?

Tom: So that's what I'm saying, is they took the elements of the older GTAs and turned them up to right?

Tom: So they took what we had, four archetypes for all the cars in the entire game, right?

Tom: And they then applied that to making each car feel unique and different.

Tom: And this applied to, so then they changed the shooting, they made it a much more traditional sort of shooting thing, and they also changed the mission design, trying to make the mission sort of play out more as you would expect a normal shooter to, right, as well.

Phil: What do you mean?

Tom: So as opposed to in GTA, the old GTAs, where you basically went somewhere and there was a huge amount of people to shoot, and you just shot them all.

Tom: Here, you have a level to move through, and you have to go from cover to cover and that sort of thing.

Tom: And the missions were also more, the pacing was more nuanced, right?

Phil: That is a great insight, because yeah, in the old GTA s, it was more of an open world type.

Phil: We're going to drop enemies on this open world map, go.

Phil: But in Grand Theft Auto IV, they actually designed the shooting situations, like the famous museum heist, or the scene at the, I think it was like an iron smelting plant or something like that, where you were playing it as you would a proper shooter.

Tom: And the thing is though, the thing I think that they just missed here was, they had all these core elements that were actually pretty good, right?

Tom: And improved from the previous games.

Tom: But I didn't really feel like they brought them together to form the one cohesive experience, which is what the older GTA games were just incredible at.

Tom: They took all these small elements and more limited elements than in GTA and just made this unbelievably engaging and enjoyable experience out of them.

Tom: Here, I thought they didn't really bring them together to form that whole cohesive whole, which was basically my major problem with GTA apart from the story where they basically attempted to move from doing ridiculous parody to satire, where they didn't just want to make fun of a mafia story.

Tom: They wanted to also give you the feeling of experiencing a good mafia story while also making fun of it.

Tom: Maybe after their experience with Red Dead Redemption and the like, at the stage they did this with GTA they just did not have the skills to pull that off whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, I think you're right.

Phil: I mean, Red Dead Redemption obviously showed a level of maturing that they had not yet reached with Grand Theft Auto

Phil: You almost, from an outsider's perspective, because the Hauser brothers are so silent, you almost think about, well, is it one Hauser who wants to be Scorsese and one Hauser wants to be Mad Magazine?

Phil: And then they're constantly fighting.

Phil: But I think at the same time, that's what makes Grand Theft Auto so appealing.

Phil: And it has from the very beginning.

Phil: I mean, right from the start, Grand Theft Auto it is both a notion of this is a very violent and to some tastes offensive game, but it's also Mad Magazine.

Phil: So I think that may be what makes it special.

Phil: And so when you take a game like Red Dead Redemption, yeah, it's going to appeal to more mature tastes, but you've got to wonder if it's turning off the younger set who might want more of the Mad Magazine type stuff and creating space for franchises like Saints Row.

Phil: In Grand Theft Auto I did not, I mean, I was addicted to the game twice because I played it for great periods of time, like years apart.

Phil: And I mean, I really was addicted to it, which means I must have liked it.

Phil: I mean, I'd sit down in Nico's apartment and watch the TV shows, you know, what Ricky Gervais and all, you know, the animated cartoons and stuff like that.

Phil: But the things that make it my least favorite Grand Theft Auto game is probably the aspects of they played out the missions way too much.

Phil: Like, you were doing missions for that guy in the Italian restaurant for way too long.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And at a certain point, it's like, okay, I've done like five missions for this guy, and every time he says, if you do this one thing for me, then I'll tell you what you need to know.

Phil: And it's like you, at this point, you're a high level assassin.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You could basically just grab this guy, take him over to the wood chipper and get the information you want from him, as opposed to going out and killing people and putting yourself in risk of getting arrested.

Phil: And that just happened mission after mission after mission with these small fish telling you, just do this one more thing for me and I'll tell you what you need to know.

Phil: And it's like, no, I mean, it just got tedious.

Phil: So the other thing I really didn't like about it was the whole feature phone stuff with girlfriends calling you up and your cousin calling you up and the rest of it.

Phil: I mean, you could ignore it, but you couldn't ignore it.

Phil: I mean...

Tom: GTA, so you've got to be interested in everything that's going on.

Tom: So you can't just ignore a feature in GTA, especially if it's been shoving your face.

Tom: You're compelled to look into it, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: And so it was with...

Phil: And that was a failing of more of the characters, right?

Phil: So when you had that FBI, CIA bitch, double agent calling you up, wanting to go bowling or whatever, she wasn't a compelling character.

Phil: She wasn't scully.

Phil: She wasn't something interesting.

Phil: Now, when Brucey came along, it was like, yeah, every time Brucey called, I was up for it.

Phil: I'm like, yeah, man, let's go.

Phil: Let's go steal some helicopters or whatever the fuck it is you want to do, because he was a cool character.

Phil: But that was few and far between.

Phil: So it wasn't for me that my favorite Grand Theft Auto IV era game is Lost in the Damned.

Phil: And I think that if people are going in to play Grand Theft Auto V, they really are doing themselves a disservice if they don't first play Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony.

Phil: These games can be beaten in to hours, and they really will set you up for an evolution that's occurred at Rockstar North that you may not be aware of.

Phil: Because of the shortness, basically what happens in Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony is they interweave the story of a biker and a security guy for a bar.

Phil: It's not called a bumper.

Phil: What are they called?

Phil: Bouncer.

Tom: Bouncer.

Phil: Right.

Phil: In Gay Tony, you play the role of a bouncer for a guy who owns nightclubs.

Phil: Gay Tony.

Phil: You don't play as Gay Tony.

Phil: And in Lost in the Damned, you're basically playing a guy who is in a Hell's Angel type motorcycle gang whose leader has recently come back from jail.

Phil: You've been in charge.

Phil: The leader has come back from jail, and he's trying to relinquish control over the group.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: In subtle ways.

Phil: So you're trying to play deference to this guy because you love and respect him, but at the same time, the leader is kind of a fuck up, and he's trying to basically undoing all the progress that you've done.

Phil: At first, when I played Lost in the Damned, I was repulsed by the content.

Phil: Because you're a member of the gang?

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: Lost in the Damned.

Phil: Because I'm not a member of a biker gang, and I find them typically...

Phil: I know this is a shock to most of our listeners, but I'm not a member of a biker gang, like the Thinks or the Hells Angels.

Phil: And I find what those groups do to be mostly repulsive.

Tom: You know, I'm offended by this as a member of a biker gang.

Phil: You would probably like Lost in the Damned right off the bat, but for me, these were the truest characters that have ever been portrayed in video gaming, other than some of the characters that you see in games like Enslaved.

Phil: I mean, these were real people.

Phil: You were living in a real setting.

Phil: It doesn't glamorize violence.

Phil: And it was just a real evolution for Rockstar.

Phil: Gay Tony went back basically in response to the Saints Row franchise and embraced all of the craziness that was missing from Grand Theft Auto IV but present in Grand Theft Auto III, San Andreas and...

Tom: By City.

Phil: By City.

Phil: But they also include some amazing shooter sequences.

Phil: There are some first person or third person shooting sequences in Gay Tony that rival Call of Duty at its highest level, where you're going through shooting up office buildings or retail locations, taking cover.

Phil: It's just a really amazing thing.

Phil: And then another thing that Gay Tony added...

Tom: We really like saying things are as good as or better than Call of Duty on this podcast.

Phil: We are.

Phil: I mean, basically, I think on our website where we post our reviews, we should just change our scoring mechanism.

Tom: Worse than, as good as or better than Call of Duty.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: And then at the end of each level in Gay Tony, they do like a Ninja Gaiden thing where they will rank your performance, like how many secrets you found and the time you beat it in or like the end of a Doom level.

Phil: And I can see that coming back.

Phil: So how does all of this inform Grand Theft Auto V?

Phil: Basically, in Grand Theft Auto IV, they had the three different stories.

Phil: They show them intertwining, and it was brilliant.

Phil: I mean, you go back to that museum heist and you play it in the first game as Niko, you play it in the second game as the biker, you play it in the third game as the Gay Tony bouncer dude.

Phil: And they have all of the same scenes, but from a different angle, in a Tarantino kind of way.

Phil: And it's brilliant, and they know it's brilliant.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto IV would have been a much better game if they had had hours of Niko, hours of Lost in the Damned and hours of Gay Tony.

Phil: And that's what it looks like what we're getting with Grand Theft Auto V.

Phil: You did not play either of those expansions, right?

Tom: No, I did not.

Tom: GTA IV put me off playing any other GTA IV games.

Phil: Well, what if I were to tell you that there were games available that were like GTA IV, but a third of the length, way more intense, contained better gameplay, better characters and better story and dialogue?

Tom: Well, what if I tell you that I bought the complete GTA pack on Steam for $for this very purpose?

Phil: And what if I were to tell you that you should probably play them sooner rather than later?

Tom: I would say if they're about hours each, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.

Phil: So, God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.

Phil: And so it was.

Phil: Which brings us to GTA Chinatown Wars, a game that stands out by itself as an island.

Phil: Released initially for the DS, eventually it came out for the PSP and then the iPhone.

Phil: My two favorite GTA games are Lost in the Damned and Chinatown Wars.

Phil: It has an Asian-American protagonist.

Phil: And it's really a great game.

Phil: It's basically like an Asian drug dealer.

Phil: I love that game.

Phil: I think it's amazing.

Phil: In fact, just thinking about it right now wants me to go back and play it.

Tom: And this didn't do too well though.

Tom: You've got this theory that Asian protagonists don't sell well, right?

Phil: Well, non-white protagonists don't sell.

Tom: Okay, so black ones are fine, and Latinos are not fine.

Tom: I mean, black and Latinos are not fine either, is what you say.

Phil: I think in the Rockstar world, they understand that if they set a game outside of the United States of America, it will not sell.

Phil: And if they have a protagonist that is not European, that it will not sell.

Tom: So, explain San Andreas to me.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, that's the exception, obviously.

Phil: I mean, San Andreas came at a point where the PlayStation had the maximal install base and off the back of two incredibly successful video games.

Phil: I mean, people were not going to buy San Andreas just because it had a black protagonist.

Phil: And also, in Western culture, he was playing a hip hop type character.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Phil: Which is widely accepted by the greater community.

Phil: If he were a black college professor, I'm not quite sure that it would have sold as well.

Phil: In fact, in Vice City Story...

Tom: I'm not sure if Grand Theft Auto with a white college professor as the main character would have sold as well either though.

Phil: Vice City Story is you play the part of an African American also, but he's a member of the military.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: People say all the time, why don't they do a GTA in London?

Phil: Why don't they do a GTA in Paris?

Phil: Why don't they do a GTA in Budapest or whatever?

Phil: It's just not going to happen.

Phil: Which brings us up to Malachi.

Phil: Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung on your face.

Tom: Faces.

Phil: Faces, sorry.

Phil: I got that wrong.

Tom: I don't mean to correct you on knowledge of the Bible, as you are the preacher.

Phil: And so, the question is, will Grand Theft Auto V corrupt your seed?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And will it spread dung on your face?

Tom: Undoubtedly.

Phil: Actually, it was Saints Row that spread dung on your face.

Phil: They had the sewage trucks.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, do you want to watch the GTAtrailer?

Phil: You haven't seen it before, right?

Phil: So, are you ready to watch it?

Tom: I'm ready to watch it.

Tom: I don't want to watch it, but I'm going to watch it for the sake of the podcast.

Tom: So, do I need to click on one of these people?

Phil: I'm just going to click back early on the timeline.

Phil: There you go.

Phil: And then we'll watch them in order.

Phil: First one is Michael.

Tom: Some topless guy jogging.

Tom: Pilates.

Phil: Basically, we see a Tony Soprano type character living in Los Angeles.

Phil: And he's got an upper middle class lifestyle.

Phil: He's miserable, even though he's rich and has everything.

Phil: You see cash trucks exploding.

Phil: He's talking to his therapist here.

Tom: And he's got a very small mouth and some sort of speech impediment.

Tom: And it looks like he's having a stroke when he speaks.

Phil: Oh my god, there's a shotgun and a bank heist, helicopters.

Phil: This is fucking awesome.

Phil: Oh, someone just got shot.

Phil: A jet and a plane and cops.

Tom: Cars exploding.

Phil: And the guy says, I think you need a therapist.

Tom: That guy looked rather unhealthy to me.

Phil: We're going to pause here.

Phil: So we just watched the Michael trailer.

Phil: That was damn impressive.

Phil: How are you not impressed by that?

Tom: Not impressed by it.

Tom: I never said I wasn't impressed by it.

Tom: That was impressive.

Phil: Don't you want to pre-order the game right now?

Tom: No.

Phil: Holy shit, did you see the jet?

Tom: No.

Phil: And the helicopters and the guy, the Tony Soprano and the therapist and I think you have a violence problem.

Phil: Come on!

Tom: It looks good.

Phil: I want to take this game, put it in a syringe and inject it into my arm.

Phil: This looks amazing!

Tom: The thing that I take from this is the bizarre mouth of Michael.

Tom: That's the thing that stood out to me.

Phil: It's too small?

Tom: The man and the guy in the G-string.

Phil: I missed the guy in the G-string.

Tom: He jumped out of a window over a pop-plant.

Phil: That was the best part.

Tom: You go on about the cars exploding and shit like that.

Tom: If there was anything that would make you want to pre-order, it was that scene.

Phil: It's important to note, people at home, that Tom Towers' problem with Grand Theft Auto V is that Michael's mouth is too small, and that he was distracted by the guy in the G-string.

Tom: No, that was the good part.

Tom: And you had a reasonable bulge, you see.

Tom: My problem is, I'm just thinking that there might be an issue with the small mouth compared to the size of that bulge, by the way.

Phil: Okay, so on to the Franklin part of the trailer.

Phil: You ready?

Phil: One, two, three, click.

Phil: Here we go.

Phil: Franklin, African American.

Tom: This one known as Token.

Phil: Okay, we got some sirens here.

Phil: We see some Grove Street hoodies.

Phil: Guy gets shot with a, like a, looks like an AK.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I'm just waiting for someone to say, oh no, you didn't.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Oh, a Ferrari.

Phil: And cops, helicopters, strippers, butts.

Phil: And a lot of talking.

Phil: A lot of...

Tom: Well, black people talk a lot.

Tom: We all know that.

Phil: That's why Oprah was so successful.

Phil: Okay, now they're driving down an LA reservoir, Terminator style.

Phil: Guy gets shot in the head with a shotgun.

Phil: Shooting at a helicopter with a shotgun, that's not going to work.

Phil: It's clearly Grove Street.

Phil: They're in green.

Phil: Got an SUV going down the freeway, shooting at LAPD.

Phil: Guy in a white singlet, like CJ?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: That was less impressive than the first one.

Phil: Okay, so we'll pause there.

Phil: That was Franklin's trailer.

Phil: So, your impressions?

Tom: Disappointing.

Tom: I mean, that one was after the Franklin trailer.

Tom: That's pretty damn boring.

Tom: It's a bunch of black people talking, then a strip club and a couple of police.

Tom: Right?

Tom: I mean, that's a major let down after the first one.

Phil: It is.

Phil: I was hoping for like a Will.i.am type music video.

Phil: You know, the one where he's running and then he's like, you know, in a car and he's on a bike and a helicopter and a jet plane.

Tom: I mean, you can't have Michael as the first one and then follow it up with something like that.

Phil: That's pretty poor.

Phil: I mean, how, you know, the other thing is, how do you compete with Queen?

Phil: That should have been the end, you know?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Okay, so overall...

Tom: Pacing wise, that shortly would have been better at the end.

Tom: Just build up to that as the climax.

Phil: Yeah, I think so, but I think they're probably concerned about people leaving before the end.

Phil: So, now we're going to go into Trevor.

Phil: Now, do you know anything about this trailer at all?

Tom: I know, before watching this, I knew nothing about any of the trailers.

Phil: Okay, so you're pumped about Michael.

Phil: A little bit let down about Franklin.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I think they could have put it off if they had a much better rap soundtrack.

Tom: If you stick in some good rap there to set the scene better.

Tom: I mean, the music was just sort of like a continuation from the first trailer.

Phil: No, the music in the Franklin section was just basically generic background music.

Phil: Whereas with the Radio Gaga, it basically made you want to...

Tom: It fitted what was happening.

Tom: It fitted the class.

Tom: I mean, you've got to have something to go with the environment.

Phil: OK, so now we're going to go on to the third part of the trailer.

Phil: This is for someone called Trevor.

Phil: Trevor.

Phil: Looks like a baseball player.

Phil: He's got a baseball bat.

Tom: Playing baseball Yakuza style, I think.

Phil: OK, so we're seeing a trailer park in Southern California.

Phil: And it seems like he's interacting with Michael.

Tom: Yup.

Phil: OK, a biplane.

Tom: Strangling old people.

Phil: He's got lots of punching and I'm liking the level of male partial nudity so far that I'm seeing.

Phil: OK, we're back in LA now.

Phil: And he's using a shotgun to blow up a large truck.

Tom: Playing country music.

Phil: A little crazy guy.

Phil: A little guy, looks like the guy from Sling Blade.

Tom: You know, I think the reason they've put both these trailers last is that they're crap.

Phil: Yeah, that last one was poor.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I don't know why they did that.

Phil: That was poor.

Phil: OK, so the first one...

Tom: Maybe I could have put it off.

Tom: Once again, the music choice is horrible.

Tom: They needed to go with something much more country and western than that.

Tom: That was like easy listening country and western, right?

Tom: You're gonna hear that in a lift or something.

Tom: You're not gonna hear that in a trailer park being blasted.

Tom: Right?

Phil: That was terrible.

Phil: And that is obviously the part that they're putting in to appeal to people who like GTA right?

Phil: I mean, that's gonna be the crazy, wacky guy who's driving the biplanes and all the rest of it.

Phil: I would have much...

Phil: Like the Michael character, the Tony Soprano-Mafiosa guy, that's like Rockstar's wheelhouse.

Phil: They own that, they understand that.

Phil: They're basically that.

Phil: They're white people.

Phil: They get that.

Phil: The next character, that's fine.

Phil: They did a good job in San Andreas with that.

Phil: That's fine.

Phil: They really didn't embarrass themselves there other than with the music selection.

Phil: But with the third one, why wouldn't you go back to like the Lost in the Damned character, or something like that, or the gay Tony bouncer guy, the Hispanic guy?

Tom: Wouldn't that be somewhat redundant following Michael going by what you've said about these characters, given that they're more realistic, with more depth to them?

Tom: I mean, that's Michael, basically, as far as we can tell from this trailer, right?

Phil: I see what you're saying.

Phil: You're saying that because I don't want an arcadey character in my Grand Theft Auto, then if we just continue having prototypes of Michael, but different races, that doesn't really advance the game much, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No, I see your point.

Tom: I think the main problem is they failed to sell it so badly.

Phil: That was pathetic.

Phil: So we'll jump basically straight into the news that has come up about Grand Theft Auto

Phil: What do you got on that front, Tom?

Tom: Basically just one absolutely terrible and completely pointless and meaningless article by nintendoenthusiast.com.

Tom: So this is posted by Manashi.

Tom: And this is apparently a feature.

Tom: And this feature consists of him saying he asked his retailer source, which could well have simply been some guy that works at EB Games or GameStop, whatever it's called, in most of the world.

Tom: And this guy said GTAwas being tested on the Wii U kits for some time.

Tom: And that's what the story consists of.

Phil: So this guy goes into a GameStop and says, hey, what if you heard about Grand Theft Auto and the Wii U?

Phil: And the clerk says...

Tom: That he knows it's being tested on Wii U dev kits.

Phil: Then let's write up a story in the net, god damn it.

Phil: That's a retailer's source.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: They didn't want to be named, so it's an unnamed source.

Tom: So you don't need to say that it was just some random guy in a GameStop.

Phil: My serious question surrounding this is, and this is a serious question, I know this only comes up once every nine shows, but my serious question is, why isn't this game being released for the Wii U?

Tom: Now, I would say GTA China could well have simply scared them off from Nintendo completely.

Tom: That did not do well, did it?

Tom: Or am I misremembering?

Phil: No, you're right.

Phil: It flopped.

Phil: I mean, they made possibly the greatest non-RPG DS game ever.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: They put real thought into how to use the stylus, the touch screen, the dual screens.

Phil: I mean, it was a perfect execution of a DS game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which is, it just blows my mind, because you think about like all the developers out there who are amazing, who don't release games for certain platforms, and you're like, guys, if you only did this, it's great for us, the people that buy the game.

Phil: It's just terrible for them commercially.

Phil: So, you think Chinatown Wars has scared them off.

Tom: Because I wouldn't, I really don't see Rockstar in general as being shy about releasing their things on everything right.

Tom: I mean...

Tom: They go for as much as they can.

Tom: And so, to me, Chinatown, the only area where they were slightly sceptical was Nintendo.

Tom: And so, Chinatown Wars seems to me a test.

Tom: So, they're not going to go and make a full console, GTA for a Nintendo console, or even port one over.

Tom: They're going to make a slightly more niche one in a market where they think, maybe we can tap into a different market than we're currently serving, right?

Tom: And so, they did this, and it just didn't hit the mark for the market that they were going after whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, and what supports your argument is that, you know, that ping pong game they made, that was a natural to bring over to the Wii, and they never did.

Phil: They did?

Tom: Yeah, they did.

Tom: They brought that to Wii, don't you remember?

Phil: No, I don't.

Tom: Yeah, they did.

Phil: Sorry, listeners.

Phil: So, yeah, okay, well, that was my question.

Phil: I just look at the Wii U, though, and I go, okay, it's got better tech than the current gen systems.

Phil: They have the money to develop it.

Phil: They have the time to develop it in terms of porting it over.

Phil: Why don't you do it?

Phil: Even if you don't use the game pad, which would have tremendous opportunities for them, I just don't understand it.

Phil: I mean, I really don't understand it.

Phil: I think this game should be coming out on the Wii U, and it wouldn't hurt them unless they think that the install base is so low or they think that Nintendo console owners are not in their demographic.

Tom: Well, that's the only plausible explanation that I can come up with with the DSbecause as I said, contrary to popular opinion around here, they did in fact port the ping pong game to the Wii, right?

Tom: They basically released their games on everything they possibly can.

Phil: Yeah, they do.

Phil: I mean, even iPhones.

Phil: I mean, even though they're terrible, terrible ports, so they obviously don't have any respect for their games.

Phil: Otherwise, they wouldn't be porting these over to iPads and iPhones and things like that, where the games just are broken.

Phil: I mean, completely inoperable.

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, that's interesting.

Phil: But at this point, we do want to welcome everyone to episode four of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Yep, that was our introduction.

Phil: Little did we know that nine years later, Rockstar would release a very, very mediocre version of the, or re-release rather, of the first games in the Grand Theft Auto franchise they obviously didn't care.

Phil: As much as you did for listening to this retrospective of the Grand Theft Auto series up until Grand Theft Auto V.

Game Under Podcast 141

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Intro

0:00:11 Muck Bang Style

First Impressions - Gran Turismo 7 Tom Towers

0:02:05 Gran Turismo 7

0:02:17 Asphalt Legends 9, a brief mention.

0:04:30 Back to Gran Turismo 7

Final Impressions - A short Hike -Both Hosts

0:33:04 A Short Hike

Featurette Hacking the SNES - Phil Fogg

0:42:04 Hakchi and Mini Consoles, the dark art of making legitimate back-up copies available on the NES and SNES mini.

0:51:40 Thermal Paste Wizardry

Final Impressions - Metamorphosis - Both Hosts

0:53:01 Metamorphosis, a Kafka inspired game by Ovid

1:02:15 The Franz Kafka Videogame

1:09:08 Psychonauts 2 - a brief mention.

Transcript
Tom: Hello, and welcome to Episode of the Muck Under Podcast, Australia's longest running and greatest Muckbang Podcast.

Tom: Today, I will be eating salmon pasta, a salad.

Tom: And a mountain wrap with butter.

Tom: I'm your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, Phil Fogg, who is, I believe, on a diet at the moment, unfortunately.

Phil: I wish I wasn't joining you.

Phil: I'm not really into hearing food sounds, as much as people are not into hearing me open cans and other things while we're podcasting.

Phil: What did you call us?

Phil: A muck under?

Tom: Muck under.

Phil: Is that some internet thing for eating food on the internet?

Phil: Mukbang?

Tom: Mukbang is YouTube channels where people eat food.

Phil: Mukbang.

Tom: Yeah, mukbang.

Phil: And is it Cambodian or Vietnamese?

Tom: Neither of those.

Tom: Korean.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And what's a Korean for?

Phil: Recording a podcast while eating?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Well, thanks everyone for joining us.

Phil: It's just been one week since the last episode, so we are surprised, but we've got more to talk about.

Phil: We're going to be going over Tom's impressions of Gran Turismo Final Fantasy impressions as well as news about Short Hike and our joint review of that.

Phil: And I'll be talking about adventures in archiving your collection legally using Hack Chi, and probably some more too.

Phil: I think we'll have plenty of time today.

Phil: Did you want to get straight into, now that you've buck-muck-banged, are you want to get right into Gran Turismo ?

Phil: You kind of surprised me at the end of the last episode by saying that you had impressions of it.

Phil: I think you said it was both the best racing game ever made and the worst simultaneously.

Tom: Well, I said it was revolutionary and also a ship fest, I believe.

Phil: Oh, speaking of, before I forget, Asphalt Legends, I've been playing that on Switch as well, so that might come up while we're talking about Gran Turismo

Tom: It runs horrendously.

Phil: Does it run horrendously?

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: I think the only horrendous thing about it is the endless attempts to upsell and the microtransactions.

Phil: Also, I get the sense that they're really rubber-banding me because I'm a new user and they're trying to make me feel like I'm really good at the game, so I invest money in the game.

Tom: I would agree with both those comments, but the frame rate is frames per second to begin with and there are numerous moments of slowdown.

Phil: I've got to say, actually, I was playing it last night and there were times where I could not steer, like I'd go to go left and it wouldn't let me go left, like it would let me accelerate but it wouldn't let me go left for like what seemed like two seconds, but obviously when you're driving at a high speed, you know, it probably wasn't that long, but it was at least noticeable where I was like, what's going on?

Phil: Is my controller broken or?

Tom: Was that you just stuttering, do you think?

Phil: I think so.

Phil: It was pretty intensive.

Phil: It was like the San Francisco stunt level.

Phil: So there was a lot of stuff going on and cop cars toppling all over each other and ramps and all sorts of things.

Tom: So, so it's noticeable to you.

Phil: Yes, that must be pretty bad.

Phil: That's exactly right.

Phil: I otherwise enjoyed it.

Phil: It was a pretty short download.

Phil: But again, it's the same thing I don't like about what's that racing game from Microsoft Forza Horizon?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: I just, I just hate having a map that's filled with stuff that you don't know if you have to pay for it or not, or cars that you don't know if you're going to have to pay for it or not, you know?

Phil: I just like to have a pure, and I know this is ridiculous, but I'd like to have a purer experience where if I want to go and buy a car, I can go buy a car.

Phil: I don't want, I don't want to be tricked into it sort of thing.

Phil: And I, I understand this probably gets us straight into Gran Turismo

Phil: You said it was a shit show.

Phil: Is it, is that to do with the microtransactions or is it something worse?

Tom: It's both in terms of the in-game economy and the microtransactions.

Tom: Essentially the rate at which you get credits is several times slower than previous Gran Turismo games, which were already obviously extremely grindy.

Tom: An example of this is the McLaren Fis million credits in the game.

Tom: To get the McLaren Fwould require probably around to hours of grinding for that individual car or you could spend, I think it's about $on credits instead.

Tom: So even the microtransactions for credits are just completely absurd in what their pricing is.

Tom: So first of all, having microtransactions in a Gran Turismo game implemented at such a ridiculous level is absurd or any game, sorry.

Tom: But another annoying thing is that goes totally against what Gran Turismo games have previously been like, and this one is supposed to be a return to a traditional Gran Turismo style career mode, is when you are trying to buy a certain car, it may only be available to purchase for a limited time, and you have to get it then, or you can't get it.

Tom: And things like that, and the used car dealership, which there were similarities to in the past, will rotate cars in and out, which is fine some of the time, but if for the expensive cars and special cars that people might want to be purchasing, that wasn't really the case in the past, and now they're doing a similar thing there.

Tom: So it is much more in the vein of how Forza Horizon works, and it really does not fit the style of Gran Turismo at all, and with the way the economy is set up and the microtransactions, it's also obviously extremely exploitative on a completely different level to the Forza Games, which have a similar sort of structure for a lot of the car purchases.

Phil: So, Gran Turismo Sport, that was the one that came, the last one, of course, and that's where they introduced all of these elements that was released in and really, I mean, there was people who are very dedicated to Gran Turismo Sport, I mean, and apparently they just kept releasing content for it ridiculously.

Phil: Like, we're really generous with the content, but I guess that they were also introducing these microtransactions.

Phil: So, when you were saying that you were under the impression that Gran Turismo was going to be a return to a traditional model, you probably weren't thinking they were going to eschew all of those microtransactions.

Tom: No, but you would not have expected these structural things, like rotating cars in and out, for example.

Phil: Right, yeah, I heard about that, that they have basically, what do you call it, chests or whatever, lotteries or blind packs where you can get the right to buy a certain type of game, but then that's on a timer as well.

Phil: You would have to get that four million credits together over the next days if you wanted to cash in or redeem that opportunity, which is really ridiculous.

Phil: And then for cars to cost, I've heard up to $you said $for the McLaren.

Phil: That's ridiculous for a McLaren anyway, but I read Yamauchi or Yamauchi, and I apologize, I'm never getting his last name right, but the director of it, Kazunori Yamauchi, Yamauchi, it's probably, was saying, oh, well, we wanted to make it like in real life, like it's really hard to get those cars in real life, it should be really hard to get them in game.

Phil: But I think that would be fine if this game was a free to play game.

Phil: But this is a full priced, what, like in Australia, bucks, or in the US, or bucks, right?

Phil: And then on top of that, to pay more than double what you paid for the actual game for a car, that's ridiculous.

Phil: I mean, it's ridiculous to me.

Tom: I think it's ridiculous to any reasonable person.

Tom: And I don't think the following real life pricing is really accurate because, I mean, it's a fair argument because Halo cars and unicorns, et cetera, in previous Gran Turismos required a lot of time and effort to get as well.

Tom: But it was in a reasonable manner.

Tom: I don't think it's really reasonable to have to grind for hours to get a single car.

Phil: Well, that was part of his argument as well.

Phil: He said, we don't want people grinding hours to get these cars.

Phil: So instead, you have to pay $of real world money.

Phil: I'm pretty sure...

Phil: Well, OK, which means you've just got to grind in real life.

Phil: You've got to be like, OK, I guess I'm going to do some overtime this week.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: As opposed to sitting on my couch playing a game that I like.

Tom: Well, what's the minimum wage in America?

Tom: Is it $or something?

Phil: No, it's not that low, but I don't remember at this point.

Phil: It's probably around $

Tom: Let's say it's $for easy maths here.

Tom: So if you were working minimum wage and you wanted to get a $car, that would then take hours of grinding in real life anyway.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And that's without you paying for...

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: It came......whatever you needed in your life.

Phil: It came off as greedy.

Phil: I'm sorry if I'm bursting your presentation here, because then a week later they came out and they gave a million credits to everyone.

Tom: Yes, they did.

Phil: So which is significant, right?

Tom: And have promised to improve the rewards for races.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So I credit them for at least acknowledging the problem.

Tom: Which is good.

Tom: I should add two details here is one, review copies did not feature the in-game economy.

Tom: So no reviewers had access to any of this, which is a just totally disgusting practice.

Tom: And two, they made the in-game economy significantly worse in a prior update.

Tom: And they've now, that's what they're promising to fix and potentially improve things in general.

Tom: So this, the game was released in a way that was not accessible to reviewers and you would hope that some reviewers would have commented on.

Tom: And then after the game was released, they patched it to essentially encourage the purchasing of microtransactions even more than how the game functioned at launch.

Tom: So it's a pretty horrendously handled launch of the game.

Tom: And this is basically the absolute bare minimum you would hope them to be doing.

Phil: I think, yeah, I think as a reviewer, I'd be pretty annoyed at that.

Phil: You would at least, and I can honestly, I can see the technical reasons why it would have been difficult for them to introduce the economy, but there should have been like a press kit or a lot of, a very good explanation of, hey, just so you know, this is the range of in-game purchases that will be available, you know, and really break that down, even if it's just a one page summary so that the reviewer goes, oh, okay, I can, I can weigh that in or at least mention it in the review that this wasn't available to me, but they've let us know that, you know, in-game purchases could be as much as this and for this reason, not something that happens a week and a half after the game's release, where you've already given it, in the case of videogamer.com, a out of or IGN a out of

Phil: And then you see some of the later reviews, you know, that got lower scores, it was probably because they were outlets that had to wait until after release to review the game.

Phil: So, you know, it is it's terrible for me because like the wait between Gran Turismo and has been so long and Gran Turismo was and may remain to be, I know it's a gaming royalty sort of thing.

Phil: I know people really love the game and continue to enjoy it.

Phil: And that sport had a tremendous following.

Phil: So like, it's good that the game is still good.

Phil: Well, we haven't got to that yet.

Phil: You might something might be coming up next.

Phil: But it's sad that the game had to be solid with this.

Phil: And again, if you're doing free to play or like, you know, releasing it as a game pass type situation where Sony is giving it away to everyone, which would be, I think, good marketing and just smart because these games live and die on their active users and make the money up.

Phil: We would not be you would not be complaining, right?

Phil: You just go, yeah, that's fine.

Phil: People want to pay, people can pay.

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Phil: And let every someone wants to grind for something that's like, just imagine someone who's, yeah, you know, hasn't got a great income or someone who's young and just enthusiastic about this stuff and may not have a job and you just want to be able to play it and unlock these great cars and you can't.

Phil: Well, can you do it?

Phil: Can you still unlock it?

Phil: I guess you can.

Phil: Like you said, it'd just take hours to do.

Tom: Or longer.

Phil: Yeah, or longer, if you have the right to buy that game because, as you said, these cycle through.

Phil: Do they have, did they bring back the car wash?

Tom: Yes, they did.

Tom: And oil changes.

Phil: Is it free?

Tom: Yes, yes.

Tom: I, well, I don't think it's free in terms of actual money.

Tom: I'm pretty sure oil changes cost in-game credits and I can't remember if the wash does or not.

Phil: It better not.

Phil: Because I know in Asphalt Legends, like I'm, you start out with, I think, six tanks of gas.

Phil: But then you have to wait for like hours to get more petrol again.

Phil: Well, if, are you up, are you done talking about the transactional stuff?

Phil: Are you able to speak to the gameplay itself?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I think that is all there is to be said on the transactional stuff.

Tom: So, I did say that it was revolutionary.

Tom: And I stand by that statement.

Tom: It is, I think if you've played Gran Turismo Sport, what I've heard is it's not a huge difference in terms of physics to that.

Tom: There are some changes to the grip you have and additions of things like wind affecting how you drive and potentially temperature, etc.

Tom: But there are two things or one thing that is not in Gran Turismo Sport that is a feature that puts it above the majority of PC sims and that is the dynamic weather in the game and how that works.

Tom: And one other thing that is extremely impressive, which I think is less so the case in Gran Turismo Sport as far as I can tell, is the way this game plays on a controller is just incredible.

Tom: The physics are much closer to an actual sim racing experience than other Gran Turismos, with the exception of Gran Turismo Sport.

Tom: But the difference between this and Sport is, there's an extremely over the top snap oversteer, which is not good if you're using a steering wheel.

Tom: It's less realistic.

Tom: But if you're using a controller, because of if you're steering with a thumb stick, obviously you go back and forth much faster than if you're on a wheel.

Tom: Having this very sudden oversteer occur when you start to lose grip, ends up with something that feels more controllable and more realistic and more in line with other sim racing games when you're playing on a steering wheel than any other sim game I played on a controller.

Tom: For instance, if I'm playing Assetto Corsa on a controller, then everything feels very understeery compared to if I'm using a steering wheel.

Tom: Here, it's very much in line with how Assetto Corsa, for example, with a little bit less detail in a lot of areas, feels with a steering wheel where you always have the sense that you can easily oversteer if you want to and sort of start off drifting a little bit and still have a chance of catching it.

Tom: And it's very much unlike any other racing game I've played on a controller.

Tom: So that I think is the most impressive thing about the physics and I think it's the only logical explanation for the introduction of this oversteer because on a steering wheel it is a little bit weird, but it makes perfect sense on a controller.

Tom: So the other thing that is amazing is the weather system.

Tom: The way that the grip gradually changes with the rain beginning and then when it's gone the track drying out, the detail in the dry line developing as you're driving along is again all on the level of the best weather systems in Sims.

Tom: And most PC Sims, which are the better Sims, don't have weather systems as detailed and certainly not as dynamic as this.

Tom: There are a few that do, but most do not.

Tom: So that is again amazing to have on a console game.

Tom: And the other thing that is really enjoyable about it, again, which is great to have in a...

Tom: that is not there in other serious Sim games, and I'm not sure you could quite necessarily call this a serious Sim game, but it is certainly a proper simulation now, is what Gran Turismo does so great and does adhere to a greater degree than Gran Turismo Sport is the love of motorsport and cars.

Tom: So you begin with the career mode is a little bit different to previous ones, where the main campaign, a lot of it is done through what they call a menu book system, which is you basically visiting a cafe, talking to people there who give you menu books, which consists of races that they want you to do to collect certain cars, and so as you're doing them, they'll be talking to you about cars, and you'll be getting a brief history of the cars you're collecting and all of that sort of thing.

Tom: So all of that was there in previous Gran Turismos, if you wanted to look at that when you're browsing through cars, and that is still there as well, but here it is directly integrated into how the campaign unfolds, which is very enjoyable.

Tom: And again, the wonderful thing about it is that this applies to any sort of car.

Tom: So as you're beginning, one of the first races is you're collecting a Mazda.

Tom: I've forgotten which one it is, but you're also collecting a Toyota Aqua, which is I think one of the names for Prius or is related to the Prius.

Tom: So this is an economy hybrid car that wouldn't be in other racing games, let alone be given its own little story with a description of the history of the car and what made it so great and its importance as a modern car in the car world.

Phil: And that's always been one of the absolute best things about Gran Turismo.

Phil: It's always been a part of the series.

Phil: I think it probably really got out of hand with Gran Turismo

Phil: And then from there, they just didn't stop.

Phil: In talking about starting with those cars, have you tried the career mode?

Phil: Or is there a career mode, I should ask?

Tom: Well, that is the career mode that I was just describing there.

Phil: The cafe thing.

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Tom: There are other things you can do in it.

Tom: There are driving challenges and obviously license tests as well.

Tom: And the license tests, so far I've done the first two, and my experience of them is that they're significantly easier than they used to be.

Tom: Many of them I've passed on my first try, with the exception of one or two.

Tom: The most I've had to repeatedly try them has been two or three times.

Tom: Is to get gold, I should add, not just pass them, but to get gold.

Tom: So thus far, if you enjoyed the ridiculous challenge of the licensed tests in the past, that is probably not there.

Tom: At least it isn't in the first two.

Tom: And from the times I've seen that people are getting on the latter ones, while some of them do appear to be pretty difficult, they're not really comparable to some of the more difficult licensed tests in previous Gran Turismos.

Phil: So if you're just wanting to...

Phil: If you don't want to do the career mode, I'm assuming that there's something for you to do to start this game and start in some relatively decent cars?

Tom: Yep, you can set up custom races, which is basically the arcade mode of previous Gran Turismos.

Tom: And one other interesting thing in the campaign mode is you can actually customize the races you're doing and set them up how you want.

Tom: So that gives you a fair bit more freedom in what you want to do, and you will still earn credits for customizing races.

Tom: But again, the credits for the custom races could be significantly better than it is currently.

Phil: Assuming you're playing this because of our discussion last week on PlayStation unless you managed to pick up a PlayStation in Australia this week?

Tom: I did not.

Phil: Okay, so one thing that I was wondering about, and you wouldn't know of unless you've read into it, is, you know, the PlayStation one of the unique reasons for buying it is the tremendous haptics that they've introduced to their controller this year.

Phil: Have you heard anywhere, you know, as to whether that's pulled off well or...?

Tom: I have heard it is meant to be pulled off very well.

Tom: I think some people have said that it's a lot better than the forced feedback is for steering wheels.

Phil: OK, that's interesting.

Phil: Oh, that's right.

Phil: Yeah, OK.

Phil: Because with the PlayStation I'm not sure if the Xbox one has this as well, but I know for sure the PlayStation one has the ability to actually stop you from pushing the triggers or putting so much resistance on the triggers that it's really difficult to actually push them in.

Phil: You know, it has that degree of sensitivity from very light touch to really strong resistance, which is interesting.

Tom: I think the bigger criticisms of it have been in that area, with the braking being a little awkward when you start to potentially lock up and that sort of thing.

Tom: I think where people have said it shines is in the feedback you get from when you're starting to lose grip or going onto a rumble strip.

Phil: Oh yeah, that would be awesome.

Phil: I'm also thinking it would be funny if they had some of those consumer grade cars with ABS.

Phil: And you got some of that ABS activity, which I absolutely hate, which is why I always turn it off.

Phil: Is it too early to talk about the aesthetics of the game?

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: So it looks absolutely mind-blowing.

Tom: It even does on PSlook mind-blowing.

Tom: I think arguably it looks more amazing on PSthan what it probably looks like on PSjust by the fact that it is running at frames per second consistently on PSwithout any issue whatsoever, because the sharpness of the cars and the level of detail on them is just incredible.

Tom: The reflections are great.

Tom: The tracks look awesome too.

Tom: That it is running on PSis an amazing achievement and that it runs on PSat a consistent FPS with very few moments where it drops below that is an incredible achievement.

Tom: The only thing that is not good about it is the fan noise.

Tom: The PSdoes not like running Gran Turismo at all.

Phil: It doesn't like running.

Phil: Do you have a launch PS?

Tom: Yes, I do.

Phil: Yeah, the wedge.

Tom: Yep, that's right.

Phil: Yeah, I have one as well.

Phil: You can be playing Netflix on it and it starts to really fire up.

Phil: Actually, no, I've moved it now.

Phil: I actually have a PlayStation Game Center now.

Phil: I've got PlayStation and all lined up on its own cabinet with its own TV.

Phil: In large part, yeah, right.

Phil: In large part because I wanted them all to have better cooling, but not really.

Phil: I just wanted a second TV with them all hooked up to it.

Phil: Yeah, it doesn't like it, but it's still living and I'm not going to replace it until it dies.

Tom: This definitely is worse than other games, and I have noticed that once you get to PSPro era games, games really start to make the console run a lot hotter than older games did, and the result is a lot of fan noise.

Phil: Yeah, like God of War, Red Dead Redemption The Last of Us all those games really put it through its paces.

Phil: I definitely noticed.

Phil: Okay, so it looks fantastic.

Phil: What about the audio?

Phil: They've obviously recorded the audio for all these several Gran Turismos ago, and they would have done it in amazing digital, so they can obviously reuse those assets.

Tom: Well, I would assume they've probably redone a lot of the audio, and certainly thus far, my experience is that it's a lot better than previous Gran Turismos.

Tom: It's much less vacuum cleanery in my experience so far, in the cars I've heard, and I think a greater variety in how they sound as well.

Tom: So in terms of audio, it's great as well, and the music is exceptional.

Tom: I should add one hilarious annoyance that is occurring, is there are regular updates, of course.

Tom: After every single update I've had, I have been unable to skip the eight-minute long intro.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: I just actually did some internet research.

Phil: It turns out that they kept it in family.

Phil: They actually recorded the sound effects for Gran Turismo and on a Sony Walkman.

Phil: So they probably did go back and re-record those, not on a cassette.

Phil: So you're quite right there.

Phil: But one thing that's been great about Gran Turismo, certainly Gran Turismo had a very memorable soundtrack.

Phil: Gran Turismo was the one with Snoop Dogg, I think, which was probably a low point for the series.

Phil: But the music on this is supposed to be quite good from what I read.

Tom: Yes, it is.

Tom: Snoop Dogg, unfortunately, was going to have music on it, but he removed it to his exclusive streaming platform.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Is that the one where he advertises his exclusive line of edibles?

Tom: I think so.

Phil: Marijuana, that is, not underwear.

Phil: So, the music.

Tom: Jazzy, as you would hope.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: They've got to have something more than that, though.

Tom: Do they?

Tom: Gran Turismo has generally been a jazzy music with a little bit of rock, too.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, Gran Turismo had garbage and hole and a bunch of other bands that I can't remember.

Phil: Nirvana, maybe?

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, what else do we need to know about?

Phil: First of all, I'm very pleased to hear that it works fantastic, or graphically, at least, on Gran Turismo

Phil: The updates scare me off a fair bit.

Tom: Yeah, you would not be able to play it.

Tom: Probably not.

Tom: And for a start, it is, I think, an over gigabyte installation.

Tom: Then I think the first update was...

Tom: I can't remember what it was exactly, but it was very big.

Phil: Like ?

Tom: Not that big.

Tom: Maybe somewhere around but it could have been less than that.

Tom: I'm not sure.

Phil: That's still pretty bad.

Phil: I'm still downloading an update for Control, which is a video game I got in December.

Phil: So every few nights, I just let it go and download another megabytes.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So overall, your impressions are mostly positive.

Phil: You can play around the microtransaction stuff, I'm assuming.

Tom: Unless you want a McLaren For a variety of other cars.

Phil: Yeah, which, you know, I mean, you'd never have them at this point in the other games either, I would think.

Tom: You might.

Tom: I think if there was a particular car you really wanted, even if it was one of the expensive ones in previous Gran Turismos, as you're going through the career mode, it is usually pretty realistic that you'll be able to get it by the end, whereas I don't think that is the case here.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's just a...

Phil: This has just been mishandled.

Phil: It's just they're out of touch with their fan base, which is understandable.

Phil: I mean, they have obviously a very huge fan base in Japan, but I'd say probably their international audience is at least the same, if not slightly larger, and it's just a shame that their international or Western publishing branches in the US and Europe weren't a part of that process or didn't understand or comprehend it because Gran Turismo has got a great community and great communities deserve better, basically.

Phil: Speaking of a game that's been supported for a ridiculous amount of time, indie dev Adam Robertson Yu made a short hike, ?

Phil: No, I don't even know how long ago it came out.

Phil: I think sounds about right.

Phil: It's available on PC, Linux, Mac, Switch, and probably everything else at this point.

Phil: It's an adventure open world exploration game, which you basically look down at it from a somewhat isometric view.

Phil: It's about a little bird that is going on a camping trip.

Tom: A hiking trip, you might say.

Phil: Yep, a hiking trip, and he's a business bird, but he's very fortunate that, or he's a working bird, he's very fortunate that when he gets to this campground, that he can't get cell phone service.

Phil: And so that's basically how the adventure starts, is he's walking to try and find a better signal.

Phil: Now, why are we talking about a game?

Phil: Just today, a...

Tom: Well, I think it's trying to reach the top of the mountain to be able to get some reception.

Phil: That's it, yes.

Phil: And we'll talk more about the actual game itself, but today a downloadable mod was released for the PC, Mac and Linux, where you can basically play with up to other players simultaneously on Hawk Peak.

Phil: So basically, they've got an online server.

Phil: They're not going to maintain it, but you can download it and run your own server, which is kind of neat.

Phil: For a game that was, I'm assuming, made by a single dude, the fact that it's still getting supported, he's probably done extremely well off it, despite the fact that you and I both picked it up as a part of the itch.io sale of the century last year.

Phil: But it's a notable game.

Phil: If you can't put your finger on it, you'd see a picture of it.

Phil: You immediately know what that game is.

Phil: It was a very popular indie game.

Phil: And it has a very Animal Crossing type vibe, I'd say, in terms of both the character art and the range of activities.

Phil: But in this one...

Tom: And I think the interactions with the characters as well.

Phil: Yeah, very much so, except it's kind of an adult or rather a knowing kind of Animal Crossing.

Phil: Because when you talk to people, they're not just talking in Animal Crossing Simlish.

Phil: They are actually talking back to you and you can have conversations and they can have attitudes.

Phil: It's not all just, you know, cheery stuff.

Phil: And there's...

Tom: Don't some of the characters in Animal Crossing have attitudes?

Phil: They do have attitudes, but you know what I mean.

Phil: You're quite right to point that out.

Tom: What you mean is there are some more adult-themed interactions here.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: I should probably just let you talk about this game, but I'll just say one last thing about it.

Phil: Not one last thing, but the cool thing about it is that they'd have these elements as you're going through this game that introduce a type of gameplay that was really unique and interesting.

Phil: I loved the tactility of this game.

Phil: Some of the activities that you had you do, be it rowing or climbing or playing beach volleyball, they all felt really great from a control perspective.

Phil: It wasn't just the usual flat, indie PC, here you go, play beach volleyball for minutes or five minutes or whatever.

Phil: And for the most part, none of them were repeated.

Phil: The boat piloting as well.

Phil: It wasn't like, oh, here's this thing that we've done, and you're going to be doing this another five times in this game.

Phil: And as you continued throughout the game and you came across these little player vignettes, they were even more delightful because you knew that this was not likely going to be repeated later on in the game.

Phil: Is that a good description of those vignettes?

Tom: I think so, yeah, definitely.

Phil: Only very few games do that.

Phil: I was playing Actraiser on the Super Nintendo last night, and everyone said, oh yeah, Actraiser, great game.

Phil: Trust me, time has not been good to it.

Phil: But the reason why everyone says it's a great game is because it was both a D side-scroller beat-em-up as well as being a top-down sim game.

Phil: At the time, that was back in the s, that was really innovative.

Phil: Oh my gosh, it's not just a D platformer, it's also got this sim element.

Tom: What was it simulating?

Phil: Basically, not sim city, but basically a really watered-down civ, where you've got villages.

Phil: A god game, there you go, a god game, like Populous.

Phil: So, yeah, and Short Hike is just a charming, charming game, as well as being quite poignant.

Tom: Agreed.

Tom: Where was the poignancy, actually?

Phil: Well, it starts out with a working bird, who's just like, oh yeah, I've got to make sure I've got signal for work, and then obviously he goes through this short hike and discovers there's other things that are more important in life, ultimately.

Phil: Like he realizes that he's missing his family, you know.

Phil: And that was the one that's most memorable and stood out to me.

Phil: I'm assuming there was also things in there about work-life balance and things like that.

Tom: There probably were, but I don't think I really found it that poignant.

Tom: I think there were interactions with certain characters on the island, or maybe a little bit in that direction, but I found the protagonist and their conflict to be ultimately rather uninteresting.

Tom: Maybe it was the pacing of the game, and that you are also climbing the mountain and going through the main plot, having these side interactions with other characters, but I wasn't really that moved by it at all.

Tom: I did enjoy it, but I would not have described it as poignant personally.

Phil: I don't think something that's poignant has to be necessarily moving to me individually.

Phil: You can just sort of see that someone's going, oh yeah, okay, I get what they're saying there.

Phil: That's touching, I guess.

Phil: Now I'm putting degrees of moving.

Phil: It's touching, but it's not moving.

Phil: It gives you pause, perhaps.

Tom: Well, here's what I would say.

Tom: I'm going to get a definition of poignant.

Tom: Evoking a keen sense of sadness or regret.

Phil: And I think that that's what the bird was feeling.

Phil: The bird was feeling that.

Phil: I wasn't feeling that, and I wasn't feeling it for the bird.

Phil: The bird was having a poignant experience, not me.

Tom: Maybe the bird was.

Phil: That is for sure.

Tom: So we can't describe the game as poignant.

Phil: I said the game had poignant moments, not for me, but for the bird.

Phil: So I'm looking at it from a third person perspective, I guess.

Phil: From a third person perspective, it had poignant moments for the video game characters in the game.

Tom: I think you may have just invented a whole new style of literary analysis, where we look at solely what the character was feeling with no critical commentary on that whatsoever.

Phil: Yes, indeed.

Phil: Okay, well, do you have anything else you want to share?

Phil: It's obviously worth playing, and I give it a thumbs up.

Phil: I forget how short or long the game was.

Phil: It wasn't a short hike.

Phil: It's not something you can play in one sitting.

Tom: I think it depends on how much you do in it.

Tom: If you were just doing the main story, which would be a little bit awkward because some of the side stuff make climbing certain parts of the mountain a lot easier, you could probably finish it in just a few hours.

Tom: I think if you were collecting everything and doing all the side stuff, it's two or three times longer than that.

Phil: Yeah, I remember playing it for at least over eight hours and over a concentrated period.

Phil: So I played it basically in four settings type thing.

Phil: But yeah, certainly well worth playing and like I said, available on pretty much everything.

Phil: It would probably, as I call most things, good on Switch.

Phil: I just love to see these auteur type projects where someone's got pretty much complete control.

Phil: They have a message.

Phil: I don't like to see them not move on to do something else.

Phil: Before we get into another game that you've been playing, I guess one of the things that I've been spending most of my time with is modding, soft modding, my mini NES, my mini Nintendo and my mini Super Nintendo.

Phil: So the NES and Super NES mini, I think you've got one, haven't you?

Tom: No, I don't.

Phil: You don't.

Tom: I've got an actual SNES.

Phil: Yes, as do I.

Tom: That may be what you're thinking of.

Phil: Yep, okay.

Phil: So obviously I have several NES, Nintendos and Super Nintendos of all sorts around.

Phil: But what was attractive to these is that they're a little Raspberry Pi mini console and it came loaded from Nintendo with games, which if you're waiting for them to give them to you on Switch, would take years to get Super Nintendo games.

Phil: And they're actually good ones.

Tom: Which is still faster than it would take to get all the expensive cars in Gran Turismo

Phil: That's right.

Phil: So you can still pick up a mini Nintendo and Super Nintendo on the gray market for about $to $bucks loose if you want it with a box.

Phil: It costs way more.

Phil: And obviously, well, I don't know if it's obvious, but it comes with a USB.

Phil: It's powered by a USB-C.

Phil: So obviously, once you've got something that's got a USB-C on it, it can be hooked up to a computer.

Phil: And obviously, if you can hook it up with a computer and it's got onboard memory, then it's ripe to be able to put archived games on it.

Phil: So I heard pretty recently after the initial Nintendo had been released that there was a way to get every Nintendo game ever released put onto these systems.

Phil: And people who were talking about it were people that I knew were big in the Nintendo collecting community, people who were not in favor of piracy, people who were not very technical or had much to do with emulation.

Phil: So I figured, well, okay, they're doing it, but I'm still not going to go there.

Phil: I don't want to brick my system or I don't want to risk bricking my system because I've got pretty much no one close around here that would be able to help me put it all back together again.

Phil: So I let time pass and basically when my Retron I updated my Retron which is my primary way of playing original Nintendo and Sega cartridges, I figured, well, what the hell, I'll give it a try after doing a lot of research on it.

Phil: And there's a program out there called Hack Chi, H-A-K-C-H-I, like hacked by Chinese.

Phil: And it's a really neat little program, I assume it's available for Linux, it's available for Windows, where you can essentially just download the program, download the ROMs as legal backups of the games that you already own.

Tom: Or as illegal copies of games you don't already own.

Phil: Oh, I guess you could do that.

Phil: It never occurred to me.

Phil: So what you're saying is, even if you don't own like NES games, you would go and download the ROMs that someone else had made as legal backups.

Tom: It would be theoretically possible to do that, yes.

Phil: And then put it on, using this hack-chi.

Phil: Oh, okay, yep, okay, got it, got it.

Phil: That's interesting.

Phil: So you mean I could download Wall Street Kid.

Tom: Yes, you could.

Phil: But that would be illegal.

Tom: You may have to do it anyway.

Phil: Well, just to see if that's true, what you're saying, because I don't know if that would be true.

Phil: I don't think Nintendo would let that happen, because obviously it would interfere with their tremendous online offerings.

Phil: So now it wasn't without problems, right?

Phil: So I did struggle with this for about two or three days, trying to get it to work.

Phil: You've got to be using the right USB cables.

Phil: You've got to be, you know, and your computer might have...

Tom: Do you mean that in more detail other than you need to use a USB-C cable?

Phil: Well, you actually have to use a USB-C cable that came with the system.

Phil: So, you know, and there are different USB-C cables.

Phil: So if you're just a dummy and you just go, oh, this looks like the same as that, it may not be the same, you know, have the same bitrate or whatever else.

Tom: So I assume if you were using one that had the same level of bitrate as it, it will be okay, or is there some firm where, reason where it does not recognize?

Phil: No, it would be okay.

Phil: And then just for troubleshooting purposes, people just say by default, oh, use the one that came with it.

Phil: There's nothing magical about the one that came with it.

Phil: It's going to have some sort of spec that, you know, these things are not marked on the USB-C's.

Phil: At least I don't know that they are.

Phil: Some of these little numbers might mean something, but in any case, it was risk free because, and the reason why I felt free to do it was because at any point, you can just restore it back to factory.

Phil: Hackchi has a, okay, well, if it doesn't work, try this option, you restore it back to factory.

Phil: And I did that like eight times.

Phil: So it really did, was fine.

Phil: And yeah, it works spectacularly.

Phil: It's got all the same features and you pull it up, and it's just the exact same interface that Nintendo has.

Phil: Well, it is the Nintendo interface, except instead of games, in my case, there's different games.

Phil: And then I did it on the SNES as well.

Phil: So with Hackchi, you can do it for the Genesis, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and a few other of these mini consoles that have been made.

Phil: So, you know, and like I said, there's absolutely no detrimental impact to it whatsoever.

Phil: You're able to play your games on HDMI.

Phil: And then, of course, -bit Doe has wonderful, you know, wireless controllers that come with little USB dongles that you can plug into the front.

Phil: Because one of the worst things about the SNES mini and this mini was the fact that they came with a cable that's like a meter long.

Phil: So, yeah, but picking up an -bit Doe controller for less than $wireless combined with this is just phenomenal.

Phil: So, yeah, so if you've got an NES and SNES, do your own homework.

Phil: But if someone who's got five fingers like me can get it done, like I said, the reassuring thing is there's always a way to return it back to factory if you screw up or will get cold feet.

Phil: I have also been doing some other stuff.

Phil: I did manage to get my RetroN back up and running, which was fine.

Tom: Before we move on from this, I have to ask when will we be getting Wall Street Kid impressions?

Phil: Probably next week, I'd say, if we record next week.

Tom: Look forward to that.

Phil: I've just started noodling around with RetroArc, which is an emulation software that can be used on other devices, but it can be used on PC as well.

Phil: For me, like I said, I've just started mucking around with it yesterday, but for me, the number one reason I'd want to do that is because I want to pick up an Xbox Core or a Dreamcast Core or a Saturn Core and be able to dump my ROMs into it, because we're talking there probably with those three systems about games, and some of which I can't play right now because the original hardware, even though I've gone out and bought two or three iterations of them, just are not working.

Phil: And the number one reason I want to do it is so I can play those games on PC, so I can take screenshots for retro reviews for gameunder.net, which is the website that we have for this podcast.

Phil: That to me is the number one reason.

Phil: I'm not interested in downloading Dreamcast games that I don't have, because like I said, I've got over Dreamcast games.

Phil: So if there's ones out there that I don't have, I probably don't want it.

Phil: And same for the original Xbox.

Phil: But it would just be a great way for me to be able to get some screenshots as opposed to borrowing or stealing people's content off the internet.

Phil: Yeah, so that's what I've been doing.

Phil: And as with most of these things, it's more fun actually figuring it out and problem solving and getting it done.

Phil: Obviously, the second I figured it all out and got it done, I've barely gone back to actually use those devices because it's always just more fun to figure out how to do it than actually using it.

Phil: Have you ever mucked around with this kind of stuff?

Tom: I have not.

Tom: Actually, yes, I set up a homebrew channel on the Wii and I think the Wii U as well.

Phil: That's risky.

Phil: Well, I would think that's risky.

Tom: I don't think it's risky.

Tom: Again, you can return it to how it was originally if you want.

Tom: And I also after setting them up have not actually used them.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: It was an enjoyable experience setting them up.

Phil: Well, it's like doing a PC build, which we've talked about before.

Phil: I just absolutely loved when I upgraded my current PC under your tutelage.

Phil: I learned so much that I immediately, completely forgot as soon as I'd done it.

Phil: But it was just fantastic.

Phil: And thermal paste, I'm still, that's the thing that stuck with me, is thermal paste is wizardry and witchcraft.

Phil: And it's amazing and incredible because people are like, oh, have you put thermal paste on it?

Phil: I'm like, yeah, right.

Phil: Okay, like what, you know, how big of a difference could thermal paste do?

Phil: Answer is a hell of a lot.

Tom: I think the difference between your CPU breaking or not breaking is the difference.

Phil: Yeah, pretty much.

Tom: Pretty much.

Phil: I was cracking on the guy who bought the new CPU from, going, oh, man, was this working for you because it's not working for me?

Phil: Oh, dude, totally sorry.

Phil: And, you know, it was totally working.

Phil: Hey, man, I don't want my money back.

Phil: You know, I'm not going to give you bad feedback.

Phil: And then you're all, did you put thermal paste on it?

Phil: And I was like, oh, thermal paste, what's that?

Phil: And then I look it up, it's like liquid metal.

Phil: Liquid metal?

Phil: Give me a break.

Phil: It's like a Metal Gear Solid subtitle.

Phil: Liquid metal?

Phil: No.

Phil: In any case, thermal paste.

Phil: Give it a try.

Phil: Okay, so you've been playing some other games as well.

Tom: I've been playing a wide variety of games, but why don't we go to another game we both play, which is Metamorphosis.

Phil: Ah, yes, Metamorphosis.

Tom: I think it's Metamorphosis.

Phil: Metamorphosis, right.

Phil: That's when a bug turns into a butterfly.

Tom: Yes, exactly.

Phil: This is a game by Ovid Works.

Phil: I remember that much.

Phil: And it's available for, again, pretty much everything.

Phil: Released in

Phil: It's on Switch, Xbox One, PlayStation PC.

Phil: It has a very low score.

Phil: Well, it doesn't have a very low score.

Phil: It has a good score, I guess, on Metacritics.

Phil: Basically out of

Phil: And do you want to give the overview of this game?

Tom: Well, it's an adaptation of Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka, essentially.

Phil: That's a German game that came out for the Amiga, I think.

Tom: I believe that's a Czech novella that came out in printed form.

Tom: Actually, it may not have come out in printed form until he was dead.

Tom: I can't remember if that was one of the works published during his lifetime or not.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And obviously I was joking.

Phil: By Kafka, who's one of my favourite authors, you probably think he's a hack.

Phil: I'm guessing.

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: Oh.

Tom: No, he is very good.

Tom: Very good indeed, I would say.

Tom: And the game called Metamorphosis is unfortunately not actually an adaptation of Metamorphosis.

Tom: It basically adapts multiple of his works at once and sticks them all together in a way that is, in some ways uses the idea of some of his themes where, whether he is actually depicting bureaucracies or using bureaucracies as a metaphor or not is up for debate.

Tom: But essentially it combines multiple of his stories in the one bureaucratic system.

Tom: So it begins with the protagonist being transformed into a creature of a cockroach like demeanor.

Tom: But then, as you're travelling around attempting to work out what is going on, elements of other stories are introduced, and it's all leading up to you having some sort of confrontation with this bureaucratic system in the tower from another of his stories.

Tom: So I think there's no need to do that because it's a two or three hour game, and the amount of content there is in Metamorphosis is easily enough to support a two or three hour game, or a twenty or thirty hour game, or a two hundred or three hundred hour game, if you're actually going to be taking the story seriously.

Tom: I think this was very much the easy way out, and resulted in something that at times was basically just using Kafka or something to make references to, as opposed to actually explore.

Tom: There are some moments that I think are pretty spectacular and do interesting things with the subject matter at least aesthetically, like the lawyer's office where you are exploring his desk, and it's a very interesting platforming level using elements of that.

Tom: There is also, I think, the castle level at the end looks very impressive as well, but for the most part, I think it's in many ways a missed opportunity, because it is apparent that the people making it loved the subject matter, but they don't really do that much with it, unfortunately.

Phil: There's lots of tips of the hat and nods to Kafka throughout, and that's pretty obvious.

Phil: Yeah, I just looked them up.

Phil: They're a small team of about people from Poland.

Phil: And just to be abundantly clear about it, this is an action platformer that you play in first person.

Phil: So that comes with some clumsiness, because as we all know, first person platforming is rarely pulled off extremely well.

Phil: I'd say probably it's gotten a lot better over the years.

Phil: Certainly, what's the name of that game from EA?

Tom: Mirror's Edge.

Phil: Mirror's Edge, probably.

Tom: Which is better than most third person platformers.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: And I see here that they play VR games.

Phil: I mean, this game would translate to VR, but I even found myself...

Phil: Like, you're walking around as a cockroach type insect, and I found myself pretty nauseous for most of the time I was playing it, and I was just playing it, obviously, without VR.

Phil: I don't even know if there is a VR version of this game.

Tom: I don't think there is, but there should be.

Phil: Yeah, there really should be, because it would translate very easily.

Phil: I don't know anything about programming for VR, but it seems to me like this would be a one-for-one type thing.

Phil: And the platforming itself was not that difficult.

Phil: It was more a matter of figuring out where you had to go and what you could do next sort of thing.

Phil: Though I did find some tricky jumps that I had trouble making time and time and time again.

Phil: Visually...

Tom: I think the platforming worked pretty well.

Tom: For me, the more awkward moments were...

Tom: I think there were some stealth sections which were a pain for me.

Phil: Yeah, I didn't so much mind those.

Phil: It was really more the platforming elements for me, not really knowing when I could jump or what I could jump and what my limits were.

Phil: I should mention also that there is a free demo of this available on Steam, if you missed out on one of the sales of the century, which I think is how we picked it up.

Tom: I'm not sure how we picked it up.

Tom: It may have been one of them.

Phil: Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Phil: Visually, it's obviously a caricatured realism.

Tom: I think it's very much inspired fittingly by expressionism.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Tom: I would say.

Phil: I think there's something missing in this game, but I think in terms of its cohesiveness, I do think it's very cohesive in terms of its theme, its appearance and what they're trying to achieve.

Phil: There's a lot of thought that went into it, but for me, it just didn't come home as a complete thought exercise or even an enjoyable type thing.

Phil: It was just a lot of, yeah, okay, yeah, I get it.

Phil: That's a reference.

Phil: It's the same criticism that was leveled at that Grand Theft Auto cloned by Brian Provinciano.

Tom: Shake Down Hawaii, Retro City Rampage.

Phil: Yeah, Rampage City, River City Rampage.

Tom: Retro City Rampage.

Phil: Retro City Rampage.

Phil: Thank you.

Phil: We get there eventually.

Phil: It's why our podcasts are three hours long.

Phil: It's me going, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy Chan.

Phil: Tommy Chan, Tommy Chan.

Phil: You know that reference, Reservoir Dogs, if you don't.

Phil: I remember that.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: So what you're saying is this should be a film podcast?

Phil: Yeah, it probably should be.

Phil: Thank God I edit this thing.

Phil: So it's never a short hike with me.

Phil: So metamorphosis, again, I didn't particularly enjoy it.

Phil: It probably had more to do with the nausea that I was having.

Tom: Well, I was also quite nauseous when I played, or at least in a reasonable amount of pain and feverish, because this was the game that I played after my first vaccine dose, which was the only one that had any sort of effect.

Tom: And that was basically the only thing I was capable of doing for a few hours after that, which was when I played the bulk of the game.

Tom: So I still managed to enjoy it in spite of that.

Tom: So I think if you didn't enjoy it, it's probably the game itself.

Phil: Yeah, I'd say so.

Phil: So is there anything else you'd like to point out about this game, or do you want to give it a score?

Tom: Before we move on, there is actually something else to add to this, because there is another Franz Kafka Videogame, which is literally called the Franz Kafka Videogame.

Tom: And it's interesting comparing the two, because the Franz Kafka Videogame, like Metamorphosis, is basically a series of references to Kafka.

Tom: And it's by Dennis Galanin, which is surely not how that is pronounced, who also developed the Hamlet Videogame, which is simply called Hamlet.

Tom: Oh, no it isn't.

Tom: It's got a very long title.

Tom: Hamlet, or the last game without MMORPG, features, shaders and product placement.

Phil: I know where these...

Phil: I know these guys.

Phil: It's Daedalic Entertainment.

Phil: Daedalic.

Tom: No, they published it.

Phil: Okay, they're the publisher of Deponia.

Phil: Yeah, so they've published a lot of these guys.

Phil: That's where I knew the name from.

Phil: They've published a lot of these guys, because this is also The Chronicles of Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Wolfgang Holbein's The Inquisitors, The Tudors.

Phil: So, yeah, they've got to be pretty hooked up together there, I'd say.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And as I said, I ultimately enjoyed The Metamorphosis.

Tom: I would say it's a unique experience.

Tom: It is worth playing for its aesthetic, even if it is thematically very disappointing.

Tom: And I don't think you should ever adapt Kafka unless you're doing something very serious or ridiculous.

Tom: And the Franz Kafka Videogame is very much ridiculous.

Tom: At times, what it has to do with Kafka is completely incomprehensible, to an even greater degree than Hamlet, which at times, what it had to do with Hamlet was beyond one's comprehension.

Tom: Here, this sort of absurdity and ridiculousness works.

Tom: The mind-numbing bizarreness of many of the puzzles, again, ends up fitting the concept of making a Franz Kafka Videogame.

Tom: So I think purely by accident, given that the Hamlet adaptation this person has made is equally bizarre and absurd and incomprehensible, he stumbled on to making a truly Kafka-esque video game in adapting Kafka, because most things that reference Kafka usually go down the expressionist route, like, for example, metamorphosis.

Tom: But to me, anyway, while there are aesthetically things that you could potentially misconstru in Kafka as expressionist, to me, Kafka is the ultimate realist, whether you want to interpret his works religiously, psychologically or bureaucratically.

Tom: All of those things, the way they depict it is pure realism.

Tom: So works that go down the expressionist route, for example, metamorphosis are totally missing the point, but absurdity is a part of realism.

Tom: So a totally absurd, incomprehensible thing like this is, I think totally by accident, one of the greatest Kafka adaptations in history.

Phil: I think if a game is going to induce nausea, maybe the next thing they should try is a Jean-Paul Sartre game.

Tom: And I think that Metamorphosis is much more in the vein of Sartre than Kafka, absolutely.

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: Look, I tell you, I think, do you want to give this thing a score?

Tom: Yes, I will.

Tom: Let me just get The Die of Destiny.

Phil: And I'll make my final point when you have got The Die of Destiny ready to go.

Tom: It is ready to go.

Tom: Or ready to roll.

Phil: To me, this would have been, if shorter, it would have been a perfect fit in a Psychonauts game.

Phil: It should have been a Psychonauts level, rather than what it was.

Tom: Well, there actually is a Psychonauts level set in a post office sort of situation, similar time period, and therefore...

Tom: What's that?

Phil: Hold that, because I'm going to ask you a little bit about Psychonauts after we give this a score.

Phil: Drum roll, I guess.

Tom: Go ahead.

Tom: You're waiting for the die.

Tom: Yes!

Tom: Okay, here is the die of destiny.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: out of

Phil: Wow!

Phil: So the die is in good form.

Tom: I'm going to do two rolls, because we actually also talked about the Kafka game.

Tom: So before I say which score belongs to which game, I'm going to do two rolls here.

Tom: One of them was out of

Tom: The other one is out of

Phil: Do you want to try again?

Phil: See if we can get this down to

Phil: I'm going to do a third roll.

Phil: Well, the first one, obviously it's not calibrated.

Phil: So just calibrate it now.

Tom: No, the scores are correct, and out of

Phil: Just wrong game.

Tom: But the third roll is going to be to decide which game those scores belong to.

Tom: If it's a high score, the first score, which was an will go to Metamorphosis.

Tom: If it's a low score, then the second score, which was will go to Metamorphosis.

Phil: I don't know why you're explaining this.

Phil: This is all in our FAQ at gameunder.net, how the Diadestiny works.

Tom: It was an out of

Tom: So I think Metamorphosis gets a out of and the Franz Kafka Videogame an out of

Phil: Very good.

Phil: Okay, so I do know that, and I'm not looking for first impressions or final impressions or anything like that, but I think, you know, one of the things about Game Pass, it is a tremendous way to get a game into the zeitgeist of the gaming world, because even if something's somewhat mediocre, everyone talks about it, or at least everyone, you know, in the, who's in the active gaming community.

Phil: And one of those games that came out, again, I'm not asking this to, this is not a full review or anything like that, but I understand you've been playing Psychonauts

Tom: Well, it's funny that you should mention that you think there should have been a level in Psychonauts, because in Psychonauts there actually is a level with a post-office theme set in an obscure European country going into political troubles with a very expressionist aesthetic to it that is actually very similar to the lawyer office level and the letter posting or stamping level in metamorphosis.

Tom: So you are absolutely right.

Tom: And the level in Psychonauts is indeed better than metamorphosis.

Tom: But that actually just reminded me.

Tom: I have to say one more thing on metamorphosis, because I mentioned that I didn't think it really was grappling with the themes of Kafka at all.

Tom: I think it's much worse than that, because that just reminded me of how the game ended.

Tom: It essentially ends with a whole section that gives the protagonist in the story a great deal of agency in how things end for him.

Phil: And I cannot think......of a less inclined author.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: You should finish this game feeling like you're suffocating in a bucket, because that's the message that I always got from the Kafka books.

Phil: And trust me, I've re-read the trial probably five times in my life.

Phil: I love the writing of Kafka.

Phil: I don't read it to be uplifted, but it's just so engrossing.

Phil: And yeah, to give you agency at the end of the game, that's completely missing the point.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: What's not missing the point is if you go to gameunder.net, I have unearthed an archive of Tom Towers' writing.

Phil: Tom's written for various outlets over the years, all of which closed down.

Phil: I'm sure that was completely unrelated to his writing and activities.

Phil: But we've got reviews of Serious Sam Xenoclash Hard Reset.

Phil: I reposted the audio review of Bioshock Altered Beasts, Swords and Soldiers Super, Sausage Fest, which was a game by Dolph Lundgren, wasn't it?

Phil: You did an interview with him?

Tom: No, it was a game by Ronimo Games, developers of Awesome Nauts, and I did an interview with Juste van Dongen, one of their developers who by himself released Prune.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: It wasn't Jean-Claude van Dome or Dolph Lundgren.

Phil: You can read the interview you did with Juste.

Phil: Just probably search JOOST on the site.

Phil: And the most recent review I put up was a D Adventures of Rotating Octopus character.

Phil: I mean, where else are you going to get a review of that game?

Tom: A highly underrated game.

Tom: That remains, honestly, one of my favourite PSgames.

Phil: I was going to say that was a PlayStation game.

Phil: And yeah, so I've really enjoyed pulling these back out again.

Phil: I've got to admit, what's really weird is, you know, you see a game like Xenoclash and you're like, oh my god, this is like No Man's Sky before No Man's Sky.

Phil: Or Hard Reset, which was one of your top games of the s.

Phil: I totally forgot playing and beating that game.

Phil: So yeah, it's been really fun to go back and read those.

Phil: So that's in the review section of gameunder.net.

Tom: At least you're enjoying them.

Phil: Yeah, at least I'm enjoying them.

Phil: And we aren't promoting them yet.

Phil: They're just an Easter egg for people who come across the review site.

Phil: But we'll do some more promotion of them off the front page, I'm sure, in time to come.

Phil: So with that, did you have anything else you wanted to contribute to episode of The Game Under Podcast?

Tom: Well, we had to promote, above the reviews, the high quality editorial I wrote, The Body Has A Head.

Phil: The Body Has A Head, that's right.

Phil: That's on the features page.

Phil: So we also have a features section.

Phil: Did you approve of the artwork I selected for that essay?

Tom: I think so.

Tom: I can't remember it.

Phil: Well, if you disapproved, I'm sure I would have heard of it.

Phil: Now, I have to admit...

Tom: It would have stuck in my mind if I disapproved.

Phil: I have not read it, but it's an essay on the place of video games.

Tom: I see what it is.

Tom: That's a very good choice.

Phil: It is good.

Phil: Podcast listeners, you've got to go to gameunder.net, click on the Features tab, and you'll see the artwork I selected for The Body Has a Head.

Phil: It's an essay on the place of video games in art.

Phil: And before you slash your wrists, because it's probably the most worn out forum topic of the last years, do you want to give a justification as to why this essay is worth a read, Tom?

Tom: Because it references the obscure book The Body Has a Head.

Phil: As well as the movie America's Army.

Phil: What more could you want?

Tom: Did it reference that?

Phil: You are Tom Towers, right?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: That's why I don't remember anything.

Phil: Well, that's the best thing about this old stuff is, you know, some of this is over years old.

Phil: So, I was even just going back and looking...

Tom: Here's the problem.

Tom: You said the film America's Army.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: I didn't know there was a film America's Army and why are we referencing...

Tom: I was referencing The Game America's Army.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: America's Army is a video game.

Phil: I was thinking about the one with the puppets, America.

Tom: Team America.

Phil: What's that game called?

Tom: That film, Team America?

Phil: Yeah, Team America.

Phil: That's it.

Phil: Team America.

Phil: Okay, I think that would have been a better essay if you could have worked Team America into it.

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I should probably end while I'm way behind.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg, and thank you for joining me, Mr...

Phil: Tom Towers.

Phil: And we'll hear you next time, except we won't hear you or see you next time.

Phil: You'll listen to us.

Phil: That's the way it's going to be.

Phil: Thank you.

Game Under Podcast 140

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Intro

0:00:12 Definateley No Trademark Banter

Trademark Banter

0:01:21 Fashion Talk

0:03:40 Tom's Got a Switch, and a Roland

First Impressions - Phil

0:11:10 Kirby and the Forgotten Land - Nintendo Switch

0:17:00 Paper Mario The Origami King - Nintendo Switch

Final Impressions - Tom

0:28:45 The Good Life from SWERY65 - PC, Xbox, PS4, Switch

Console First Impressions - Tom

0:49:17 Nintendo Switch

Outro

1:11:45 Tease for Gran Turismo 7

Transcript:
WEBVTT

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I am your host, Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by our co-host, founder and executive creative director today, Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, welcome back.

Tom: Thank you.

Tom: It's, I think, a disappointing co-host for me this time, but it's desperate times in the podcast world, so I'll have to take what I can get.

Phil: Yes, I do want to thank Red for co-hosting the last two episodes of the non-canon version of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: It was the slime cast, for those who missed it.

Tom: I think some of the best work we've done at Game Under.

Phil: I think that the co-host was exceptional, but as usual, you were dragging down the team.

Phil: But hey, you know, let's go for another shows and see how we go.

Phil: This is going to be a tight, fast-paced show.

Phil: We have not got time for trademark banner or anything even closely resembling it, because we just need to get this show done in a hurry to move on to other things, but, you know, gaming related, of course.

Phil: But I was wondering, fashion-wise, are there things that you wear that are a staple, like, that you've worn for over a decade?

Phil: And I'm not talking about a particular, like a jumper or a T-shirt that you have that's over a decade old.

Phil: I'm talking about a stylish affectation that you have.

Phil: And I'll give you time to think about that, because I've got a few.

Phil: I wear Ocasio digital watches that are from the s.

Phil: And I wear Chuck Taylor Converse high tops.

Phil: I wear a Gray Nichols cricket hat.

Phil: And Ray-Ban Wayfarers.

Phil: I don't wear them all at the same time.

Phil: But sometimes I do catch myself wearing them all.

Phil: But they're all things that...

Tom: I think you should wear them all at once.

Phil: Well, I do often.

Phil: And I chuckle when I find myself wearing them.

Phil: But the point is, I wear those things because I know that when they wear out, I can always get them.

Phil: Like a Gray Nichols white cricket hat, they make billions of them.

Phil: They've made them the same forever.

Phil: They're going to keep making them the same.

Phil: So I know that when that one runs out, I can go and get an exactly identical one.

Phil: And same thing for the Chuck Taylors and the Wayfarers and the Casio watches.

Tom: I would say there isn't really, I think, particular things that I would necessarily wear.

Tom: There are specific clothing items though that I have worn for many decades.

Phil: Like that white hood I've told you you have to get rid of.

Tom: Well, I only wear that on special occasions.

Tom: So I think it's alright to have a certain sort of formal dress that you only get out on special occasions.

Tom: Surely that's acceptable?

Phil: Yeah, that would be acceptable.

Phil: I think, so there's nothing, there's no go-to fashion item that you're like, I've got to have that, like a little hoodie, right?

Phil: Like a hoodie would be required, right?

Tom: I don't think it would be required, no.

Tom: No?

Phil: What is your opinion on non-zip-upperable hoodies?

Tom: I prefer them to the zip-upperable ones.

Phil: With the pockets on the front?

Tom: With pockets on the front, yes.

Phil: Yeah, I've got a skeevy like surfer dude, one of those that I got from an op shop that is like a ridiculously expensive fashion brand.

Phil: And I quite like it.

Phil: Alright, well, I know that we had no time to spare.

Phil: Did you want to talk about anything that's happened in your life recently?

Tom: Well, I did get a Nintendo Switch between now and the previous show, I believe.

Phil: Excellent.

Tom: As well as a digital piano.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Okay, so another Korg, or what did you get?

Tom: Another Kord?

Phil: Korg.

Tom: Korg, no, it was in fact a Road, not a Korg.

Phil: Wow, okay.

Tom: No, no, no, not a Road.

Tom: That's a different Japanese manufacturer of audio-related items, a Roland, sorry.

Phil: Oh, a Roland, okay.

Phil: Well, that's still, you know, that's still professional grade.

Tom: I think it wouldn't be classed as professional grade.

Tom: It would probably be a mid-tier one.

Phil: You've been, I know that you were learning, you know, or playing stuff piano-wise sort of thing.

Tom: Well, I think about a decade ago or so, which is recounted on the VJ Press blogs, I started to learn piano on our acoustic piano, which requires repairs, hence the digital piano.

Tom: And that essentially meant I did not have at any point ever play games, because the enjoyment and satisfaction and use of the brain is very similar in playing piano to playing games.

Phil: So can you just sit down at a piano and start playing?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And be good?

Tom: Well, whether I'm good or not is a matter of opinion.

Phil: See, I think that's fantastic.

Phil: I mean, that is so great because there's pianos everywhere, you know, so like you can just, if a party's boring or this, that or a gathering's boring, you can just, you know, kind of get up to the, go tickle the ivory, so to speak, and, you know, a crowd would form around you.

Phil: I think that's fantastic.

Tom: And the good thing is, whether I'm good or not, if I'm good, a crowd will form.

Tom: If I'm bad, a crowd is equally likely to form.

Phil: Or disperse.

Phil: Which is win-win.

Tom: Form and then disperse.

Phil: Win-win.

Phil: So, but now with the piano versus games thing, is it because, you know, your hands get so sore from doing the piano that you can't do the games?

Phil: Or is it just because it, is it all absorbing?

Tom: It eats up any time one would spend on playing games, essentially.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: And it is exactly the same sort of things going on in your brain compared to many other instruments.

Tom: And it is an interesting challenge with a very clear and defined improvement as you're going along with a depth to it that is in a very small selection of games that exist.

Phil: What you've said there though, it is interesting because you've got the dexterity, right?

Phil: You've got to be using your fingers.

Phil: You're responding to stimulus, how the stuff sounds.

Phil: You're using your creativity.

Phil: You're constantly looking at where am I going to go next?

Phil: I mean, it sounds exactly like video gaming, but why is it different or more so on the piano than say another instrument?

Phil: Because you said with a piano, it's more like gaming than with another instrument.

Tom: Due to the interface.

Tom: So because it is a keyboard, there's obviously a direct relationship to how games work, given that most games are based on just pressing buttons.

Phil: So you're a keyboard and mouse kind of guy.

Tom: Well, even if you're using a controller, it's more similar than say if you're playing guitar.

Tom: I suppose you could say there's a similarity in moving an analog stick to strumming on a guitar.

Tom: And obviously the fretboard is pressing keys and that is very translatable from piano to guitar and vice versa.

Phil: Yeah, I believe they made a few video games about that back in the night.

Tom: I think they did.

Tom: Guitar...

Phil: Guitar Man and Rock Hero.

Phil: This is why people tune into The Game Under Podcast because we have a perspective.

Phil: An extensive knowledge of game history.

Tom: But so the difference is, the difference is, the way an analog stick works on a controller is essentially just the translation from arrow keys on a keyboard or a digital input just with a little bit more movement in it.

Tom: When you're strumming on a guitar, obviously that's where all of your expressiveness comes and also the fretboard.

Tom: But in piano, the expressiveness comes from more so than in a guitar because guitar is in a percussive instrument.

Tom: There is obviously a huge amount of expression in the sound you produce, but so much of the expression comes from your timing and rhythm and all of that sort of thing more so than on a guitar or non-percussive instrument.

Tom: So, games are essentially, even if you are playing on a controller where your analog stick is controlling only a small quantity of reactions, very much similar to a percussive instrument.

Tom: And any games that have depth to them, like for example, beat'em ups or fighting games, they're all obviously entirely about timing and rhythm and that sort of thing.

Phil: Have you been, so why did you get the Roland?

Phil: Because your old piano was crapping out?

Tom: Well, the old piano needs extensive repairs done on it.

Tom: And the other advantage of a digital piano is, which is probably the main reason I got it, is it is nowhere near as loud as even a small acoustic piano.

Tom: Even if you turn it up all the way, it may be technically as loud, but the amount of vibration it produces is not at all comparable, which is obviously a disadvantage if the goal is performance.

Tom: But for practicing and playing regularly, when you suffer from sensory overload is a huge advantage.

Tom: So playing on an acoustic piano, I would be limited to minutes before it starts affecting me, then maybe an hour until it really begins to be a problem.

Tom: Whereas I can play a digital piano for several hours at a time without that being an issue.

Phil: That is awesome.

Phil: I wish I could play the piano.

Phil: If I was going to pick up anything, it would definitely be the piano because my extremely large hands.

Phil: I've heard that that's a benefit on the piano.

Tom: It is.

Tom: You need to be able to reach at least an octave.

Tom: And the further you can reach, the better.

Tom: I do not have large hands, but I have extremely flexible hands.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: So, yeah, thanks to Redco Hosting.

Phil: I'm glad we've gotten right into the game.

Phil: So you did buy a Switch, so I'm very interested in your impressions of it.

Phil: We can probably get into that later.

Phil: Speaking of the Switch, I've been playing some Switch games predominantly lately.

Phil: I just finished up the demo of Kirby and the Forgotten Land.

Phil: Have you had a chance to check this out?

Tom: No, I have been told to though.

Tom: I watched some of the IGN gameplay trailer and the narration was so horrifically distracting, I remember nothing about the game itself.

Phil: My first exposure to Kirby was on the original Game Boy.

Phil: I think it's Kirby's, I forget what it's called, but in any case, it has an incredible soundtrack.

Phil: And it was a fun game and basically, if you've never played a Kirby game, it's a Nintendo game, obviously, and it basically involves you walking around like a big pink cloud.

Phil: You can float by holding your breath and fly short distances.

Tom: I think that you're playing as a big pink cloud.

Phil: That's it, that's you, yep.

Tom: And I think by the size of clouds it would be an extremely small cloud, would it not?

Phil: Yeah, it would be very small, like the size of a bean bag, I would say.

Phil: Kirby, I always thought that Kirby was named after the famous US vacuum cleaner manufacturer because one of the things that Kirby does is he vacuums in things and then he takes on their characteristics, just like when you eat the heart of another man, you take on his characteristics and skills.

Phil: So he will suck in something and then he will have that characteristic.

Phil: If he sucks in something that's not living, he just spits it back out at you like a projectile.

Phil: And I always thought Kirby was named after the vacuum cleaner manufacturer.

Phil: He was actually named after...

Tom: Did he also eat people's hearts?

Phil: Well, I've only played the first three levels, so...

Tom: I mean the vacuum cleaner manufacturer.

Phil: I don't know, I don't know.

Phil: I would believe that that Dyson dude eats people's hearts, he's pretty creepy.

Phil: So with Kirby...

Phil: But actually he was named after a Nintendo employee in America, so there you go.

Tom: Are there any Nintendo characters who were not named after employees?

Phil: Well, you've got Doug Bowser.

Phil: He's the current Nintendo of America chief, so you've got that.

Tom: Who do you think Pikachu is named after?

Phil: I have no idea.

Phil: And you know what?

Phil: Reggie Philz and me, he never actually had a character named after him, did he?

Tom: I don't think so.

Phil: Hey, but back to Kirby and the Forgotten Land.

Phil: The thing is, this game is brilliant.

Phil: I went out and bought it immediately after I got through it.

Phil: It is basically...

Phil: They've taken the Mario Odyssey shtick.

Phil: So with Mario, he'd throw his cap on something and then he'd take on the characteristics of that thing.

Phil: Well, with Kirby, basically, it's the exact same thing.

Phil: So he can suck up a car using an ability called Mouthful.

Phil: He can suck up vending machines.

Phil: And then basically, like you suck up a car, then you can drive around like a car.

Phil: So, yeah, it's just really, really fun.

Phil: The ability to platform by either walking or floating, the ability to have really a good toolset in terms of how you defend yourself and get through a level or solve puzzles.

Phil: It just is really well done.

Phil: And it's got the same polish as Mario Odyssey.

Phil: I'd be really interested if Kirby and the Forgotten Land was conceived prior to Mario Odyssey, because obviously Kirby, you know, doing something, interacting with something and then taking on its abilities is like, I've been a part of the series since the s.

Phil: So I don't know if they came up with that idea first and then adopted that to Mario Odyssey.

Phil: But yeah, it's got the same fantastic polish and gameplay feel and looks great as well.

Phil: So I'm very excited about that one.

Tom: Are you enjoying it more or as much as Mario Odyssey?

Phil: Probably more, I'd say, because it just feels right, whereas the gimmick, I don't mean that, I should say the device of Mario Odyssey with the hat was always something that was kind of weird.

Phil: Well, not weird, but it's kind of feigned because his hat has never been a part of his shtick before.

Phil: And it was executed perfectly.

Phil: I absolutely loved Odyssey from start to finish.

Phil: Did you have a chance to play Odyssey now that you've gotten the Switch?

Tom: No, I did not.

Tom: The one thing I would add is I would also say it is coming from someone who remembers nothing from the trailer, that I suspect Kirby also probably has a lot more charm to it because Mario Odyssey, as far as Mario aesthetics go, has to be one of the least engaging and most forgettable.

Phil: In what way?

Tom: Well, from what I remember the trailers was there was a big focus on a very bland and lifeless looking New York City.

Phil: Yeah, that's just one level though.

Phil: I mean, they have desert levels and jungle levels and all sorts of other stuff as well.

Phil: Look, I'd really encourage you to play Mario Odyssey.

Phil: I would because it is good, it is important.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: While you were talking, I was thinking, you know, actually I'm full of shit because in the original D Marios, he has the tanuki suit, he has the boot, you know, so like he can change his clothing to take on other characteristics.

Phil: So there you go.

Phil: But yeah, so thumbs up for that one.

Phil: I can't wait to get the physical copy.

Phil: Another game, well the game I've actually been playing the most is the Paper Mario Origami King.

Phil: Not Origami Killer.

Tom: That doesn't sound like a Mario title.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And so Paper Mario is obviously the great-grandson of Super Mario RPG on the Super Nintendo, which is one of our friends' best games of all time, favorite games of all time, and a game that I've gone through about two and a half times in the past.

Phil: It was a game by Square using Nintendo Assets, and it was basically a JRPG, but one of the things that was innovative, at least to the American audience or the Western audience, was that it had timed battle controls.

Phil: So it wasn't just turn-based, but there was also a time button pressing, a timing element to it as well.

Phil: I wouldn't imagine you've had an opportunity to play Super Mario RPG?

Tom: Not the original, no.

Tom: I have played the Thousand Year Door, but I think that's the only one.

Phil: Is Thousand Year Door the GameCube one?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So, Super Mario RPG is absolutely brilliant, definitely in my top games of all time.

Phil: There was never a sequel made by Square, and then on the Nthey came up with Paper Mario, which kind of got diluted into the Mario and Luigi type Game Boy series, but not really.

Phil: It never really replaced it.

Phil: The NPaper Mario was absolutely exceptional, and I wasn't expecting it to be.

Phil: Thousand Year Door, what was your impressions of it?

Tom: After an extremely slow and uninteresting start, it ended up becoming one of my favorite GameCube games.

Phil: Yeah, and I totally got into it.

Phil: I mean, I remember basically binging it and getting through it in a very short period of time, but I didn't like it to the level of the Super Mario RPG or the Ngame.

Phil: The Ngame is outstanding, and I hope they've reissued it.

Phil: They may have reissued it.

Phil: I don't think they have, but it'd be good if they did.

Phil: So this one, and then if they did one for the Wii or the Wii U, then I didn't know about it, or I basically went, eh, kind of had my fill of that sort of thing.

Tom: I think they did.

Phil: Well, they had a sticker one for the DS that I wasn't interested in.

Phil: So I just basically got into this one because I'd heard enough good things about it.

Phil: And, you know, like one of the things, like Thousand Year Door is, and about this series, is that it is immensely charming and well localized.

Phil: And visually, obviously, they're playing with a D sticker-looking Mario that has all the characteristics of a sticker and paper.

Phil: And it's very, you know, it's very visually appealing.

Phil: Or easy on the eyes.

Phil: Because it's highly stylized.

Phil: My first impressions of Origami King was that it was polished within an inch of its life and probably beyond it.

Phil: Because it's just so slick and boring.

Phil: But it does have a good battle system.

Phil: It has basically, you go into, if you can imagine, a bullseye.

Phil: And as Mario, you can move your enemies around concentrically.

Phil: So if you imagine a bullseye with your enemy on each alternating stripe, or multiple enemies on each alternating stripe, you have a limited amount of time to slide them all around to line them up so that you can have a more effective attack.

Phil: There's another vacuum-type effort.

Tom: Is that to hit multiple ones of them at once?

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: Or you line them up so you can bounce off the first to the second, to the third, to the fourth.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And so it's fairly simple, but like all good puzzles, it can get really hard to master the more they ramp it up.

Phil: And it does have a particularly slow start because you start at the, you know, it's a hub-based game basically.

Phil: So you start out with the hub and the first level.

Phil: So you have to kind of learn the hub and the first level at the same time as well as trying to put together a lot of complicated game elements.

Phil: And they keep trickling this information out to you.

Phil: And I'd say that that's probably the biggest downfall of the game is there's too much detail because there's no instruction manuals.

Phil: They are having to tutorialize you for the first hours at least.

Phil: And I'm well into plus hours now and I'm still learning new stuff.

Phil: It does have a Metroid type element to it in that, you know, you'll go into an area and there's things you can't access until you unlock abilities or equipment later on.

Phil: And so yeah, overall I'm enjoying it.

Phil: The boss battles are fantastic.

Phil: So basically there's five different levels you have to beat and at the end of...

Phil: And what's the gameplay?

Phil: You're basically walking around, attacking small guys who can come up and attack you in a traditional JRP fashion.

Phil: And then you're going through dungeons and temples and solving puzzles and doing all this and that sort of thing.

Phil: You're having to do resource management in terms of your health items and equipment.

Phil: And then at the very end, there are very distinct boss battles that are quite complex and by no means simple.

Phil: Like you...

Phil: JRPGs, traditionally, you've got the grind and then you get to a boss, and you can kind of figure it out within a few tries.

Phil: With this one, it's the same sort of battle, but a lot more complex.

Phil: So in that way, a lot more satisfying, but yeah, you've got to definitely set aside time for those boss battles.

Tom: Do they come out with creative ways of using the concentric circle system?

Phil: Yeah, they do, because they're introducing new minor enemies all the time that have different abilities.

Phil: So for example, you might be using your boots to stomp on the top of enemies, but then you'll get an enemy that has spikes on their top, so you can't jump on top of them unless you're using an upgraded steel boot or something like that.

Phil: So yeah, they're constantly changing your minor grind battles.

Phil: And the environments also change.

Phil: So like I said, there's about five or six different levels that have different environments and different challenges, and they all have a dungeon in the middle of them in typical JRPG style that you have to try and figure out and get through.

Phil: So yeah.

Phil: So overall, I would say it's been a good game.

Phil: It's been enjoyable and challenging.

Tom: It sounds a bit more creative than The Thousand New Door and what are you hearing about the sticker one?

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

Phil: I mean, they've really done a good job.

Phil: That's kind of been the story with the Switch is this there's been no shortage of good games for it.

Phil: And speaking of good games, you turned me on to the fact that itch.io had another sale of the century for some reason that we probably won't get into.

Tom: I think it was something to do with the Oscars.

Phil: I think so, you're right.

Phil: Which has been a popular, I was outraged that the most popular topic on the VG press, which is our community site, you can post stories about games and all the rest of it, and someone posted a thread yesterday about Team Rock or Team Jiggy, and it's been the most active thread on the site.

Tom: What kind of a loser would post a thread like that?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: It's just basically clickbait.

Phil: The guy's probably trolling.

Phil: He really has no interest in it whatsoever.

Phil: He's probably just cutting and pasting something off Twitter just to see what people will read.

Phil: But anyway, what were you saying about the VG Press?

Phil: Oh, a sale.

Phil: That's right, a sale.

Tom: The HIO Oscar sale.

Phil: Yeah, Oscar sale.

Phil: Right, so you turned me on to this, and it was like bucks for only games?

Tom: I think over

Phil: Over games, I know.

Phil: As opposed to that one they did a couple of years ago.

Phil: But yeah, I managed to pick up some games on it.

Phil: I've kind of scrolled through to like the fourth page of the sale, and I'm not seeing too much more there.

Phil: But they had Steamworld Dig

Phil: Oh, Superhot.

Phil: I mean, if you don't have Superhot, that's worth it right there.

Phil: And Inglot, I picked up that.

Phil: I mean, it was a really good set.

Tom: So only worth it for that alone as well.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic.

Phil: I mean, there's quite a few games on there that I didn't have.

Tom: I haven't played it yet, but I'm very, very curious about a game on there called, if I can find it, Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Thirsty?

Tom: Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

Phil: Oh, that's just got to be a kind of Super Giana Sisters or the Great Giana Sisters.

Phil: Thirsty Sword Lesbians?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Sorry.

Phil: I just had to get that right because I want to write it down.

Phil: Ostensibly, the plot would be that they're thirsty for a sword and that they're lesbians.

Phil: But you can't judge a book by its cover.

Phil: Just because the game is called Thirsty Sword Lesbians doesn't mean it's about lesbians who are thirsty for swords.

Tom: I just found the publicity page for it on the developer Evil Hat's website.

Tom: It is described as Love, Swords and Adventure.

Tom: Thirsty sword lesbians battle the Lady of Change when her enforcers march down from the frosty north.

Tom: They rocket through the stars to safeguard diplomats ending a generations old conflict.

Tom: Even when swords are crossed, they seek peace with their opponents and sometimes connect more deeply than anyone expects.

Tom: A sword duel can end in kissing.

Phil: Well, that's something I think everyone can relate to.

Tom: I think it's very topical.

Tom: I think it's very topical.

Phil: Well, it's amazing that they're able to give...

Tom: World leaders could learn a little from thirsty sword lesbians, I believe.

Phil: Well, certainly they could learn from that, just as they could learn from Pussy Riot.

Phil: So yeah, that was a good sale.

Phil: So now you've been playing another game as well, I think, that you wanted to talk about.

Tom: I've been playing several games, actually.

Tom: But one of the most interesting is The Good Life by the developer of Deadly Premonition.

Tom: SWERY, I think he's known as.

Phil: Yeah, SWERY.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phil: Well, remember I played the Switch Deadly Premonition game that came out last year and could not recommend it.

Tom: I think you sort of did recommend it, actually, but were disappointed as well.

Phil: Yeah, it had a lot of disappointments to it.

Phil: So The Good Life, is it based off that British sitcom from the s?

Tom: It's clearly referencing the British sitcom from the s, as it is set in a small English country town.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Well, that's interesting because obviously Deadly Premonition took a lot of hints from the TV series, you know, the one with the lake and the woods.

Tom: Twin Peaks.

Phil: That's it, yeah, Twin Peaks.

Phil: So it's based off of a British city?

Tom: It's a English country town.

Tom: And you're playing as an American journalist from New York who has accrued a massive debt.

Tom: I don't recall if it goes into much detail on what her debt is actually for, but she has been sent to a backwards English country town to somehow earn enough money in this town to pay back her debt.

Tom: And the gameplay is a kind of a cross between Animal Crossing, an action adventure game and a photography game.

Tom: And there are similarities to Deadly Premonition in the sense that you are in a supposedly living town with characters going about their day-to-day lives, but unlike in Deadly Premonition, you don't really get that sense.

Tom: And if you follow characters around, you're not really going to learn anything about what is going on in the narrative, unlike in Deadly Premonition.

Tom: And it's also pretty clear that it is not entirely finished because there is one main very small town area, then there's areas of the countryside with other small towns in them.

Tom: And the main area has named characters that go about their daily lives and shops that are open during the day and closed during the night and all of that sort of thing.

Tom: The surrounding areas consist of nameless placeholder characters who just stand around no matter what is happening.

Phil: So, in Deadly Premonition, of course, a lot of the charm of that game was that you could go to the town and people would be going through their daily activities and you could spy on them and take photos and there were some purient benefits to that.

Phil: Is that a similar type thing?

Tom: Not really.

Tom: As I said, that's what they're going for, but the only thing that that really affects is that to begin and end quests or do certain activities in quests, you have to do it when the character is available.

Tom: If you do follow characters around, as I said, you don't really learn anything about what's going on and they don't really do anything interesting either for the most part.

Tom: They will just, for example, walk from home to the shop they work out.

Tom: Then at the shop they work out, they'll remain there all day long.

Tom: The only exception to that is when they need to go and eat something, they'll go to the single pub and eat something there.

Tom: Or on the Sunday, they will go to church.

Tom: And that's basically the extent of the characters' activities in the world.

Tom: So it's not really comparable to Deadly Premonition at all.

Phil: Well, that sounds more exciting than what I do every week.

Phil: At least these people go to two places.

Phil: So what's the moment by moment gameplay?

Phil: You're walking around, I would have to assume, in a third person action type game.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: And there is a twist.

Tom: As you go along in the story, you will gain the ability to transform into a cat or dog.

Tom: So the advantage of that is they can jump much higher than the main character in human form.

Tom: The dog can mark its territory and smell things.

Phil: Well, humans can do that too, honestly.

Tom: Yes, they can.

Tom: But the cat can also climb things.

Tom: And this has not really made use of much, in terms of gameplay, other than just arbitrarily having to switch into these forms to achieve certain objectives in a mission.

Tom: So that's another thing that is, disappointingly, not really developed in a particularly interesting way.

Tom: I think, weirdly, the most enjoyable and interesting aspect of the game I found was the photography mechanic and how that relates to making money.

Phil: Are you on, I'm sorry to interrupt, are you on some sort of email list where they tell you every time a game has a photography element?

Tom: No, I'm not.

Phil: How did you find this?

Tom: Well, it's made by SWERY.

Tom: SWERY.

Tom: So it was on my radar.

Phil: And what platform did you play it on?

Phil: PC?

Tom: I played it on PC.

Tom: I believe it's also on Switch and possibly other consoles.

Phil: Okay, no worries.

Phil: I was just saying because you're quite good at finding every single game that has a photography element in it.

Phil: Because you talk about it like, oh yeah, you know, a Fatal Frame and whatever.

Tom: I've never played Fatal Frame.

Phil: Okay, you know, it's hard to get over here, I think.

Phil: Okay, I just had to know.

Phil: So there is a photography element to it.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And it is linked to the character's Instagram account equivalent in the game world.

Tom: And each day or couple of days, there are five hot words, as they're called, which will, if you photograph this and then upload it, you will make a reasonable amount of money from accruing followers and getting likes and that sort of thing.

Tom: So looking for photo objectives and uploading them, I found to be easily the most enjoyable part of the game and the missions that use photography are usually quite enjoyable as well.

Tom: The main campaign gameplay consists mostly of things like fetch quests or going between characters and talking to them.

Tom: So it isn't particularly interesting, the main quest in terms of gameplay.

Tom: And the story and characters certainly do not live up to Deadly Premonition at all.

Tom: But it does nevertheless have a certain charm to it, partially because of the very bizarre combination of gameplay elements.

Tom: As I said, there are Animal Crossing elements of the gameplay where you're able to upgrade the house you live in, you can manage a garden you have, you grow plants that you use to make food, and there's also a survival mechanic where you have to keep your character fed, you have to keep her sleeping a reasonable amount, and you can't stay out in the rain without catching a cold, and if she does get sick, then you have to go to the vet and get treated, and various things like that.

Tom: So it's a very strange mix of gameplay mechanics.

Tom: Which make it not necessarily enjoyable, but a very interesting experience.

Tom: And there is another mechanic in the game, which is the way you travel quickly, which is, I think, a good indication of the good elements of the game's sense of humour where it works quite nicely.

Tom: Instead of riding a horse or anything like that, you can tame sheep and then ride sheep around.

Tom: And the way you tame sheep is, of course, by transforming into a dog and then barking at the sheep.

Tom: And then, once you have barked at them enough and cowed them under your wheel, you can then ride them and use them essentially as your steed, which allows you to travel quickly throughout the area.

Tom: The one other interesting thing, the one other more enjoyable mechanic was the way meals affect your stats.

Tom: So, certain meals will give you more stamina, which allows you to run further distances, both when you're riding sheep or just running around.

Tom: And some will make you much stronger in fights.

Tom: There's also an extremely awkward combat mechanic, which is used, I think, on one occasion in the main story, and should basically just be avoided, generally speaking.

Tom: And there are very rare occasions where there are enemies that will attack you, such as badgers, but generally the best strategy is to just call up your sheep, hop on it and run away.

Tom: So, the way food affects your stats is interesting.

Tom: And from a collecting perspective, it was somewhat enjoyable to be going through restaurants' menus.

Tom: And there are mini games or side quests that take advantage of some of the more amusing characters in the game as well, such as an alcoholic vicar who you have drinking contests with, and also one of the best photographic missions features him as well, where you have to take a photo of him urinating in public after he's been out drinking.

Tom: And that's amusing, but is also a good indication of how the gameplay does not work like an emergent world, I think was the marketing term, used at the time of Deadly Premonition.

Tom: If you were doing a mission like that in Deadly Premonition, you would be following that character around, waiting for a logical occasion that they would be doing that.

Tom: In this, you start the quest and select it from the menu, and they will teleport to where they are urinating.

Tom: If you then go to another quest, they'll teleport back to where they were.

Tom: It's very much not a dynamic world.

Phil: That makes complete sense.

Phil: In terms of what you're describing, besides the urination portals, have you ever played any of the Harvest Moon games?

Phil: Harvest Moon starts with you basically being someone who's come from the city, and you're broke and you need to build something up, and you meet a new community.

Phil: It sounds very Harvest Moon.

Tom: Harvest Moon would definitely be a better comparison than Animal Crossing, definitely.

Phil: Yeah, okay.

Phil: Well, we're talking about SWERYHidetaki Sehiro, and this game, The Good Life, is available on PlayStation Xbox One, Windows and Switch.

Phil: I found it interesting, and he's currently working on a game called Hotel Bartholonna for Switch and mobile, with no less than Sudaof No More Heroes fame, but even more importantly, Kichiro Toyama, which isn't a name that we've talked about much here on this podcast, but he's the guy behind Gravity Rush and Siren and Silent Hill and Snatcher.

Phil: You know, I mean, so these guys are working on something together called Hotel Bartholonna, which I think that's very interesting.

Phil: I think it's probably going to be a must buy just to see the car crash that SWERYSudaand Toyama could put together.

Phil: One of the things that are disappointing looking at SWERY's gameography is that the last game he was a designer on, he did Deadly Premonition in Lord of Arcana for the PSP, then Lord of Apocalypse.

Phil: And that was the last game that he was actually a designer on, and since then it's all been writer, co-writer, director.

Phil: And I think there is something that is lost when a game designer basically elevates themselves up out of the design system and becomes a writer-director.

Phil: And I think that's a part of aging and basically you can't do everything yourself and technology changes, you don't keep up with technology and all the rest of it.

Phil: But do you disagree with me that that's an important point?

Phil: You know, like getting your hands dirty.

Tom: I think it would depend entirely on who we're talking about.

Phil: So like Will Wright, the creator of SimCity, you know, like he created the original SimCity by himself exclusively, % just him.

Phil: And he had everything in his control.

Phil: And then obviously as he built and developed SimCity through its different genres, and then went on to do The Sims, you know, at a certain point, he obviously the scope of those games got out of his direct control to the point where he just went on to do nothing because he was no longer able to produce a game just by himself.

Phil: And if you look at itch.io, that is to me, like where gaming is right now.

Phil: Like itch.io to me is where the passion and the interest is as a gamer who grew up playing Commodore games that were made by a single developer or two developers or three developers.

Phil: In terms of this...

Tom: What about someone like Nagoshi though?

Phil: Oh, well, you see, that's the master of both worlds.

Phil: You know, someone who's able to, you know, basically adopt new technologies and be alive with new technologies as they're evolving.

Phil: And I think, like what I'm saying is, like Nagoshi, he just didn't...

Phil: Yeah, he's not doing all the blood work himself, but he's conversant with it, I believe, because he's been able to...

Tom: I'm pretty sure he began in design in various capacities, didn't he?

Phil: Yes, that's right.

Tom: So there will be an example of someone who did successfully make the transition.

Phil: Make the transition.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: And Miyamoto, I would put in that same category to a degree, well, certainly, because even though he was, quote, just an artist, he wasn't a coder, he obviously gave Nintendo something that they didn't have.

Phil: And you need that artistic touch, you know.

Phil: And of course he's brilliant.

Phil: So is there anything else you'd like to say about The Good Life?

Tom: Probably not.

Tom: Just again, it is...

Tom: If you go into it expecting something on the level of Deadly Premonition, either in terms of the narrative and atmosphere or the gameplay, and there were many positive aspects and incredibly high quality aspects to the gameplay of the original Deadly Premonition, contrary to popular belief, I would say, it's a very disappointing experience.

Tom: But as a very unique and bizarre melding of different total elements in the narrative and elements in the gameplay, it's a very unique and I think ultimately worthwhile experience.

Tom: And like Harvest Moon, which I haven't played, but games that have a management sort of aspect to it, there are elements of that in it that end up just through basic positive reinforcement becoming engaging and rewarding.

Tom: They just take a little bit of while for that effect to build up.

Phil: Yeah, like if you look at a game like Stardew Valley, that's a game that was again made by one person and was incredibly deep and is incredibly deep and complex.

Phil: And I think probably from what you're describing with The Good Life is that it's got some elements of those things but probably not as much time put into the development to really push it over the edge to be something.

Tom: And there's certainly your depth to anything in it.

Tom: The one thing I would add which is I think really takes away from it because one thing it has going for it I would say is the lack of depth to it because it's a very low investment way to experience a management game of that sort of ilk.

Tom: One thing that gets away in the way of that is the crafting system because the crafting system you need to do for various side quests and the side quests are enjoyable because a lot of them have amusing stories that accompany them.

Tom: And that's where a lot of the characters shine.

Tom: But a lot of them are a total dead end because the crafting system requires some pretty absurd grinding to be able to get some very basic things you need to craft a single item to complete a quest.

Tom: So that is something that just gets in the way of the general direction that the rest of the game was going in and is any quest that I can recall that featured crafting, other than the one that started some of the crafting systems being available, I did not finish because it would have required some degree of just totally uninteresting grinding to be able to do it.

Phil: Yeah, it will sound fatuous, but I believe that if crafting isn't a game, it should start...

Phil: When they're doing those stupid tutorials, they have to walk you through at the start of the game.

Phil: It says, hey, in this game, you can do crafting or not.

Phil: Do you want us to do it for you?

Phil: Because sometimes it can be more work than it's worth and certainly not enjoyable.

Phil: I think if you look at a game like Tomb Raider and its sequels, that's an example of, to me, crafting done best.

Phil: But in so many games, you get to that crafting element and it's just a complete time sink and something that doesn't have much reward.

Tom: I think if the crafting system is interesting, that can work.

Phil: And intuitive.

Tom: Even if it is a time sink.

Phil: Yeah, and intuitive.

Phil: Oh, I put this together, I put that together, it's going to be a fire bomb, you know.

Phil: Thank you for your review of The Good Life, available on pretty much everything.

Tom: I think we have to give it a score, don't we?

Phil: We do.

Phil: Do you have the die of destiny?

Tom: I have to get the die of destiny.

Phil: Well, you don't have to because I have a sound effect that does the die of destiny.

Tom: Well, I now have the die of destiny.

Phil: Ah, excellent.

Tom: And we're about to roll it.

Phil: There we go.

Phil: That's how we roll.

Tom: A out of

Phil: Well, GameSpot gave it a out of so do you think your is about right on the Tom Towers scale?

Tom: I think it's probably fair, all in all.

Phil: Very good.

Phil: So The Good Life is just one of the games that are available on the Switch, and as you said, since the last time we talked, that you have picked up a Nintendo Switch.

Phil: Did you get a mini or one with detachable joypads?

Tom: I got a standard Nintendo Switch.

Phil: Okay, so it's got the old screen, not the upgraded screen.

Tom: Correct, but I think it's the second generation of the original, so it has the better battery in it.

Phil: Oh, good, good, good.

Phil: And does it have, what color are your joypads?

Tom: Uh, blue and red.

Phil: Ah, just like me.

Phil: So they're kind of a neon, fluoro kind of red and blue, right?

Phil: Like a turquoise and sherbet kind of theme.

Tom: I think that's the most common color.

Phil: Yeah, well, you've got the black ones, which, no.

Phil: And then you've got the orange and purple ones, which I quite like as well.

Tom: I think the OLED one has white ones, which I think works quite well.

Phil: This is probably going to take us out for the rest of the show, but do you play it mostly docked or undocked?

Tom: Well, when I have been playing it, as I said, the vast majority of gaming time has been taken up by piano.

Tom: So I've actually been playing it in a combination of both docked using the Joy-Cons separately.

Tom: I do have a pro controller, but not using the pro controller or handheld because the majority of use that I was giving it was actually while I was doing my daily exercises.

Tom: So the advantage of being able to have a controller where you can separate the two sides of it means that can be done with a variety of different positions.

Tom: In which one when one is doing squats or crunches or whatever else.

Tom: And if you're lying down or standing up doing squats as well, you can also hold it depending on what you're doing exactly.

Tom: So that is actually how I have been using it mostly.

Tom: And that is one of the many great advantages of a system that is both a handheld and a non-handheld and has a genius, although it was there on the Wii, except they were attached by a lead, the genius idea of splitting a controller in half.

Phil: Yeah, I think with the Switch, they've finally pulled all the great elements of the Wii and the Wii U together and perfected them.

Phil: There's a lot of concepts there that they've re-tread.

Phil: And I've quite forgotten that when I first got my Switch, I did what you did.

Phil: I'd dock it and I'd have the controllers willy-nilly, one in my left hand and right hand.

Phil: I might have my left arm hung up over the back of the couch while I'm playing sort of thing.

Phil: And if you can get used to it, it's actually like a really comfortable way to play because you're not angled over with your shoulders.

Phil: And you can just sort of be kind of loose with it.

Phil: And yeah.

Tom: That's how my sister has been playing.

Tom: And she also, she has very poor joints in her hands and in general.

Tom: But...

Phil: Well, if she has very poor joints in her hands, I've got a better dealer that I could probably hook you up with.

Phil: So what is her favorite game, incidentally?

Tom: Yeah, I will.

Tom: But the other great advantage of them, if you have poor joints, for example, is how light they are.

Tom: There isn't really another control that is at all as light, not even close to as light as the Joy-Cons are.

Phil: I find in the handheld mode the Joy-Cons are poor because I'm basically twisting it all the time.

Tom: You mean if you've got the stream between them?

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: But I like the little holder thing they give to you.

Phil: And for smaller hands, that's also much better than having to hold the whole system, I've noticed.

Phil: But when I'm playing it docked, I uniformly have been using the Master Controller, which has, as I said when I was giving my first impressions of it, I don't know what is powering it, but it seems to never need a charge.

Phil: But you haven't been using the Master Controller.

Tom: Is that the Pro Controller?

Phil: Yeah, sorry.

Tom: Yes, if I am not playing while doing exercises and I am not playing in handheld mode, then I do use the Pro Controller.

Phil: So, you know, you are saying when I am not exercising and all the rest of it, it sounds to me like this hasn't revolutionized your life, like it hasn't become a part of your weekly gaming...

Tom: Well, it was, other than my gaming during breakfast, while I was using it doing exercises, my exercise routine has now changed, so it is no longer that practical to use them.

Tom: But when I was, that was the only gaming I was doing other than while I was eating breakfast.

Tom: So it did revolutionize my life in the sense that I was actually playing games again that were more complicated than something you could do while eating breakfast.

Tom: So I got through, for example, I think, two pretty reasonably length games.

Tom: I still need to kill the final boss in Metroid Dread and I completed the original Secret of Manor.

Tom: I think it's called Final Fantasy Adventure, I think.

Phil: Those are the only games you've played, aren't they?

Tom: No, those are the only ones I've completed.

Tom: I've played a lot of multiplayer games.

Phil: Like You Know.

Tom: Not You Know.

Phil: You Know is brilliant on this system.

Phil: You can read my review at gameunder.net.

Tom: I believe you also updated our archive with a Serious Sam and Xenoclash review.

Phil: Yes, I did.

Phil: You can go to gameunder.net, read Tom's review of Serious Sam.

Phil: What I'm basically doing is I'm going back through your gaming history and updating your reviews that you did for other sites because you've had a long career of writing video game reviews, but unfortunately, you've outlived a lot of the outlets.

Phil: As an archivist, I've been digging through your old stuff and putting it back up.

Phil: Right now, we've got your reviews of Serious Sam Xenoclash and Hard Reset.

Phil: These have been saved from the Internet Archive and reposted at gameunder.net.

Phil: And good reads each and all of them, I'm sure.

Tom: That's why they have survived and I'm still here, unlike numerous outlets.

Phil: Well, yes, and that because I pay Squarespace to keep our website up as opposed to your former hosts.

Phil: But we should probably come up with some sort of contingency plan in case I die.

Phil: So we'll work on that.

Phil: So back to the Switch.

Phil: You say you exercise while you're using it.

Phil: Have you tried Ring Fit Adventure?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Phil: I love that game.

Phil: And so you said you've tried other games, but you've only beaten two.

Phil: So what are the games that you've played?

Phil: What are the hardware impressions do you have?

Tom: Well, I played a lot of games.

Tom: Mario Kart which is surprisingly good, even after already playing Mario Kart

Tom: Ultimate Chicken Horse, Ibn Ob, Fatum Batula, which is one of the games in this itch.io bundle.

Tom: Shakedown Hawaii.

Phil: Oh, I love that game.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: As you know.

Tom: We were doing impressions on that at some point.

Tom: And probably a lot of others that I have failed to recall off the top of my head right now.

Tom: I played, I think, seconds or so of the Rabbids game.

Tom: There's another one.

Tom: So I have played a lot.

Tom: Those are just the two that I invested the most time into and beat so far.

Phil: I just picked up a copy of The Outer Worlds for the Switch, which I won't get to for decades.

Phil: But Journey to Another Planet, I picked that up as well based on your recommendation for the Switch.

Phil: I basically got a new strategy where I secretly put things into my Amazon shopping cart so that when my significant other goes to buy something that the family needs, I accidentally end up with a video game.

Phil: Which I should probably put that behind a paywall of some kind.

Phil: That's a hot tip and trick.

Phil: I've got to tell you, the Nintendo Switch favorite console of all time for me has been the SNES, the Super Nintendo for a very long period of time just because of the depth of its library and the brilliance of its colors.

Phil: Then it was the Dreamcast.

Phil: Then it was probably one of the PlayStation since that's the system for which I have the most games.

Phil: I'm going to say probably my favorite out of those is the PlayStation

Phil: But right now the Nintendo Switch to me is my favorite console ever because it fits the needs of my life which is sometimes I can play on screen, sometimes I can't.

Phil: It's got a tremendous library of independent games and Nintendo first party games.

Phil: I'm just really enjoying it.

Phil: If they just do nothing more than a Nintendo Switch for the next years, just upgrading the screens and making it lighter, improving the battery time, I'd be completely happy with it.

Tom: Which is probably what they're going to do.

Phil: I hope so.

Phil: I hope it's their next DS, you know, that becomes their DS, that becomes whatever is capable of after that.

Phil: And the other crazy thing is it's all back to where it started with a cartridge.

Phil: Like, yeah, obviously you download a lot of games and I've downloaded a lot of games.

Phil: But when I want to own a game and I want to have it as a part of my library, like Kirby, yeah, I could have downloaded it.

Phil: But no, I want the cartridge, I want that piece of plastic that I chunk in the way it all started with the original Nintendo.

Phil: And to it not be a disk-based system, which these days, you know, a disk-based system is ridiculous because it's basically just a license key that you put into a system and it downloads the game.

Phil: You know, and you know how much I hate that.

Phil: So I really like the fact that, you know, years from now, I'll be able to grab one of these, make sure my switch is offline, throw it in and be able to play it, I think is tremendous.

Tom: One criticism of the cartridge system I would make, which I think is a common criticism, is the boxes for the cartridges is absurd.

Tom: And I think they surely could have come up with a more aesthetically pleasing way and practical way of packaging these tiny cartridges.

Tom: Because the dimensions of what they came up with are this weird thing between the satisfying smallness of a PSbox and a standard DVD case, but thin.

Tom: And when you open it, games don't have manuals anymore.

Tom: So you've just got this giant blank space of plastic with a tiny cartridge inside it.

Tom: And it just looks totally absurd.

Phil: Would you have been appeased if they'd gone with a square?

Tom: I think that would have at least made it more interesting.

Phil: I think shelf space considerations are also an aspect because I've been working in product design.

Phil: And like the more shelf space you can take up, the easier it is for you to get the attention of someone who's walking by a shelf.

Phil: And there's also the shoplifting element as well.

Phil: Though obviously they put sensors in it and all the rest of it.

Phil: And whoever buys a game physically in a shop these days anyway.

Phil: But I hear what you're saying.

Phil: It has to be big enough that you can hold it in your hand.

Phil: And it's actually quite small in my hand.

Phil: But I do think, and I've become more sensitive to this sort of thing, like how sustainable is it?

Phil: At the same time, these games are not going to get recycled.

Phil: People who are buying physical games are not like buying the game, putting the cartridge into a folder and then throwing the case into the bin.

Phil: You know, like this is something that's going to live on a shelf or be recycled by handing it down or that sort of thing.

Phil: So, look, hey, am I crazy with my view of the Switch being the best console of all time?

Phil: Where are you with it?

Tom: Well, before I get to that, I have one other major criticism of it that is obviously much more important than the dimensions of the cases.

Tom: And that is on the Joy-Cons.

Tom: There's two issues.

Tom: One is the Bluetooth sensor is on the level of like a $Bluetooth mouse.

Tom: Where, if you do not have the Switch in front of the television, things like your leg can block the Bluetooth signal.

Tom: It's horrendously bad.

Tom: And two, this is possibly the worst D-pad on, certainly on a first-party controller I have ever come across.

Tom: It is just complete and utter shit.

Tom: It's awkward if you're doing anything diagonally.

Tom: The button presses don't feel satisfying and responsive, and it just feels completely crap to use.

Tom: That is all completely solved with the Pro Controller, again, demonstrating how awful the Bluetooth sensors are in it, which maybe that is one of the reasons they're so light, perhaps, but the Bluetooth on it is horrendous and the D-pads are even worse.

Tom: So those are two things I think that they really, really missed the ball on to a huge degree.

Phil: I absolutely agree.

Phil: The D-pad is horrendous.

Phil: Though for some reason when I'm playing it with the Joy-Cons, I don't notice.

Phil: But yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

Phil: It is the worst D-pad of all time.

Tom: But as a console in general and as something that is fun and interesting to interact with, there's a reason I only have a switch of the consoles this generation other than the fact that you can't actually buy the other two.

Tom: And that is consoles to me have become progressively less and less interesting as they have become basically cheap gaming PCs on which you can only play games.

Tom: And that's essentially how they're presenting themselves, if not as PCs, as PC related products where they have general design cues from things like modems and routers and things like that.

Tom: The Switch is very much an interesting product in and of itself that isn't just like a low profile PC or modem or router.

Tom: The way you interact with it is brilliant, where if you're playing it on television, you stick it in this satisfying slot.

Tom: And if you want to play with multiple people, you can give each person a single Joy-Con is genius as well, depending on the game.

Tom: That you can arrange how you want to use the Joy-Cons in different ways is brilliant as well.

Tom: And that it's also perfectly usable as a handheld is genius and just makes it an extremely enjoyable way to play games that is not an inferior way of PC gaming, essentially, which is what consoles have basically become at this point.

Phil: I completely agree.

Phil: There's nothing sexy about consoles.

Phil: There's nothing exciting about consoles.

Phil: Like when a console used to launch, I'd be running to a shop to get one.

Phil: And now it's kind of like, yeah, I get it.

Phil: They're both basically replaceable, you know.

Phil: And Microsoft, which like if I was going to get a system right now, trust me, I'd get the Microsoft one.

Phil: But like they've kind of downplayed it themselves by saying, hey, you know, you played on PC, played on Xbox, we don't really care, just subscribe to our service.

Phil: And then with the PlayStation, you know, they've got this really ugly, you know, design, like design with no compelling exclusives and they're all tipping their toes into the water because the component shortage.

Phil: So they're releasing Gran Turismo on the Gran Turismo, on the PlayStation and PlayStation

Phil: So, okay, well, you would have done that anyway.

Phil: Yeah, but you've taken away the proposition.

Phil: You've taken away.

Phil: It used to be you can only play this on our new console and that's given you a reason to go out and buy it.

Phil: Like there's no reason to go out and buy these consoles.

Phil: And like I was a Wii family.

Phil: Like I had a Wii and a and that pretty much covered me until the PlayStation came along.

Phil: And then a PC Wii, you know, like a PC Wii family, you know, that's fine.

Phil: And right now it's like between PC and Switch, I'm pretty much covered.

Phil: I can play all the games I want to play.

Phil: And then they keep bastardizing their new systems by releasing games like Horizon on the old hardware.

Phil: But I don't want to play it on the old hardware because I know it's going to be a compromised, you know, or it's going to be a compromise.

Phil: So, yeah, I agree.

Phil: And the other thing is, like, with the cartridge on the Switch, you know that you're going to get most of the game and the updates are going to be small.

Phil: With the consoles, you know, you really are, as I said before, just buying a disc with a license key.

Phil: And if I'm going to do that, then I may as well just download it on my PC, which I know the custodians, be it Microsoft or Linux, will let me carry it on and on and on for the next years.

Phil: You know, if I buy Serious Sam today for PC or for Linux, I'm pretty confident that it's going to be a way for me to play that years from now.

Phil: If I buy Horizon on the PlayStation I'm pretty confident I'm going to be not able to play that years from now.

Tom: I think that's probably due to Nintendo's strategy rather than the cartridge, because in the Wii U and Wii, they weren't really moving in that direction either.

Tom: So I think that's probably a strategy of having, if you buy the game, you can actually play it without too many issues, would probably still be the case.

Tom: I will add though, Nintendo is certainly guilty of these online problems, because setting up this Switch on Christmas Day to be able to play anything was naturally impossible, because to get updates and that sort of thing required you to connect to a server that was totally incapable of dealing with the quantity of people trying to connect to it all at once.

Tom: So even with the Switch, that is still there, just to a massively lesser degree.

Tom: But the one other feature I would add, which is good, and I think perhaps the PSand Xbox, whatever the fuck it's called, may do this as well that is very useful, which you've mentioned as well, is the fact that if you put the console to sleep, when you go back to it, you can continue from exactly where you were in any game.

Phil: Yeah, yeah, which is fantastic.

Phil: And I've also enjoyed it for its travel capacity.

Phil: Like I do most of my gaming when I'm traveling.

Phil: If not every night, I try to game every single day.

Phil: But I cannot overstate how friendly it is to someone who's got a busy lifestyle because while the family is watching TV, I can be watching TV with them, be present, but still be playing my game.

Phil: The one downside to it is insensitive game designers who don't understand font sizes that don't translate to the handheld.

Phil: So I popped in The Outer Worlds and updated it.

Phil: I popped in Journey to Another World and started playing it.

Phil: And on a handheld, it's like, I can't even read this.

Phil: And it's not just because I'm old.

Phil: I have glasses and contact lenses and things like that.

Phil: But if you're going to be doing text only subtitles, you need to be able to read them on a handheld screen.

Tom: I'm yet to encounter that problem.

Tom: So maybe it is in fact your eyes and decrepit age.

Phil: Well, that's ageism, man.

Phil: Okay, so any final thoughts before we close off this podcast on the Switch?

Tom: I think that's pretty much on the Switch.

Tom: The one thing I would say, you mentioned Gran Turismo which reminds me, I have actually started that.

Phil: Well, can we tease that?

Phil: Can we say that?

Tom: I will just say one thing on it.

Tom: That is simultaneously a completely revolutionary racing game and a complete and utter shit show of the highest order at exactly the same time.

Phil: That's what I've heard.

Tom: So look forward to impressions of it.

Phil: In episode of The Game Under Podcast, thank you for joining us for episode

Phil: I've been your host, Mr.

Phil: Phil Fogg.

Tom: I've been the superior host, Sir Tom Towers.

Phil: So your pronouns are Sir and...

Tom: Sir and Your Majesty.

Phil: Right on, man.

Phil: Man.

Game Under Podcast 139

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Since Phil is on assignment, Tom and Red recorded another short episode analyzing a tentacular genre of Japanese film. Some slight technical difficulties are in this episode..

Thanks for listening to this (non-canon) episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Transcript
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Tom: Hello, and welcome to episode two of the Slime Under Podcast.

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, as always, Red.

Red: Yes, it's very nice to be back for a second episode.

Red: I never thought that we would be able to make a second one, to be quite honest.

Red: Well, yes, I am glad to be here again.

Tom: And we're glad to have you back, and we're here to discuss yet another in what may actually be a series, I think.

Tom: I think the production company that makes them is called Attackers, and they all have a pretty similar quality to them, and there may be an underlying plot to them, I'm not entirely sure, as some of them appear to share similar settings, so I don't know if that is just simply to reuse sets, and save a bit of money, or if there is some sort of ongoing plot.

Red: You're getting into the lore too early now.

Tom: I am indeed.

Tom: But the episode we're watching this time is Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles.

Tom: There was also a mouthful in the episode itself as well, at various points.

Red: Oh, yes, that is true.

Tom: But I think you're good at the plot summary, so why don't you start us out with a description of what is going on in Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles?

Red: All right, since, well, technically I did quite understand what they were saying in this video, actually.

Red: Despite them speaking in Japanese, yeah, despite them speaking in Japanese.

Tom: Is this from Japanese that you have picked up from watching entertainment pieces like this?

Red: Yeah, not exactly this genre.

Red: Technically not this genre at all.

Red: So just anime in general, is it?

Red: Yeah, I've just watched Japanese media, but not this kind of media.

Red: This was the second time I watched something like this.

Red: I can say I'm not an expert in this particular area, but you know.

Tom: But you are in the animated version, I believe.

Red: Wait, I just exposed myself.

Red: Why would you do that?

Tom: Well, that's why we have you on here.

Tom: We need an expert.

Tom: I'm filling in the role of the naive amateur being plunged into the deep end of this sort of content.

Red: Should I get started on explaining the plotline?

Red: The quote unquote plotline.

Red: So basically, this started off with a couple, a married couple moving into a new house.

Red: And this, excuse me, this.

Red: So basically, it was in the morning, and they were having breakfast.

Red: And basically, they were chatting about how great their lives are going to be in this new house.

Red: And they were actually also planning to have children.

Red: And they were so happy about everything, everything that was there.

Red: So after their meals, the wife was already sending her husband off to work.

Red: And after that, she decided to start cleaning her new house, which the entire time while she was cleaning, the camera angles in those particular scenes were quite interesting.

Tom: They were highlighting various interesting parts of her character, would be one way to put it.

Red: Body characteristics.

Red: Yes.

Red: Yeah, so I guess this is also another way to build up tension for the viewers, showing a little bit here, showing a little bit here, a little bit there.

Red: Despite the fact when she was cleaning the bathroom, she was wearing some a bit goofy looking shoes.

Red: They were like bathroom slippers, but in the form of crocs.

Tom: Well, she was dressed for the setting.

Red: I actually invited my friend to watch this with me, and those shoes made us question a lot about life.

Red: Have you ever worn crocs?

Red: Not exactly.

Red: I know that is surprising, but no.

Red: Actually, we don't wear shoes when we're cleaning the bathrooms.

Tom: I hear they're meant to be comfortable, so maybe that's why she was wearing them.

Red: But for a setting like that, it's a bit odd, I'd say.

Tom: Maybe it was foreshadowing that the floor would very soon be in a state that might encourage you to wear something to protect your feet.

Red: But unfortunately, the situation didn't take place in the bathroom that she worked so hard to clean there.

Tom: I believe it took place in the lounge room.

Tom: It made a pile of boxes.

Tom: She was unpacking things, perhaps.

Red: Yes, she was.

Red: After cleaning the bathroom, she went to the lounge room, as you said, and as how the normal setting goes, she was grabbed by the ankle by this mystical creature.

Red: And thus the action started.

Red: Let's not get graphic as usual, since you never know who might be listening to this.

Red: But basically...

Tom: This is a family-friendly show.

Red: Yes, yes.

Red: So basically the vigorous action went on basically for the entire afternoon, I'd say.

Tom: And I think the most notable thing about the vigorous action in this particular installment was it featured many more fluids of multiple different colors and consistencies compared to...

Red: How many colors did you see?

Tom: I think there were two, at least two.

Tom: There was a standard sort of whitish translucent liquid, but there was also one that had a little bit of a yellowish-greenish tinge to it, so that it had a more sort of mucous consistency to it.

Red: I think my brain decided to delete on that note, because I do not remember it having colors.

Tom: Well, I'm glad I can put it out, because we don't want to downplay the amount of effort they put into the aesthetic of the fluids that they featured in this particular episode.

Red: Yeah, yeah, maybe I shouldn't judge them that much.

Red: All right, so after her afternoon session with the mystical creature, I believe she passed out, which Tom here believes that she was almost drowned by the fluids.

Tom: Well, there was a lot.

Tom: There was a fountain of fluids spraying all over her.

Tom: All over her face.

Tom: So drowning was a serious possibility.

Red: Touche, true, true.

Red: But yeah, basically she passed out, and I believe it was evening when her husband finally came home from work, and her husband found her passed out, huddled on the floor.

Tom: In a very disheveled state.

Red: Yes, oddly enough, there wasn't the said fluids that was around her.

Red: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Red: You believe they dried up, okay?

Tom: Correct.

Red: But yes, if you were a husband and you found out, you came home to see that your wife was passed out in the middle of the living room, wouldn't you start to panic?

Tom: Because this husband did not.

Red: Yes, because this husband did not.

Red: He just calmly woke, tried to wake her up.

Red: He was like, Oh, dear wife, are you okay?

Red: As he starts to shake her.

Red: And she did.

Red: Thankfully, she woke up.

Red: And she was so confused by what happened.

Red: So she, I believe she tried to prove like what happened to her did not happen.

Red: Actually, she tried to tell her husband that she's been assaulted.

Tom: Assaulted, yeah.

Red: So basically she tried to tell her husband, you know, something basically assaulted her.

Red: But as usual, as a normal human being would, he would think that she was hallucinating.

Red: So he decided to laugh it off and believe that her wife was basically bad shit crazy.

Tom: So he's an absolutely terrible husband we're discovering at this point.

Red: Basically, he has basically just believes that her wife just naturally passed out half clothed in the living room.

Tom: In the middle of unpacking the boxes.

Red: But basically that scene wasn't that long.

Red: It was just to insert plot, I believe, the quote unquote plot.

Tom: I think so.

Red: So after that situation, they also did their own session of vigorous action on the bed.

Tom: But it was less vigorous than the action with the creature.

Red: Yeah, the husband tried his best to entertain his wife.

Red: But the wife was constantly reminded of the wonderful time she had with the creature.

Tom: Understandably, given the way that her husband has treated her up to this point.

Red: Yeah, that's true.

Red: So after their session, she did ask her husband whether if they wanted to take a bath, because, you know, you're sticky.

Red: So you wouldn't want to go to bed in that state.

Tom: But in this case...

Tom: I think this is adding, in fact, more detail to how terrible husband he is.

Tom: I think he's come home stinking before this point.

Tom: And so now she's attempting to use a post-coital shower as an excuse to get him to bathe, but even this isn't working.

Tom: So I think this is just another layer to his very unattractive character that they're living under at this point.

Red: Sprinkle in more of the theories as we go on.

Red: So since her husband didn't want her to take a bath, she decided to go downstairs and take a bath by herself.

Red: But oddly enough, I believe she was heading towards the bathroom, but she heard noises in the pantry slash kitchen area.

Red: As all of us do, we will try to investigate what the noise is.

Tom: Naturally.

Red: And she just actually, the bathroom wasn't that far from the kitchen slash pantry.

Red: She just took a few steps there, and I actually don't know what she was looking at.

Red: The camera wasn't actually showing anything.

Red: But all of a sudden, the creatures decided, was like, hey, surprise!

Red: And started choking her.

Red: But even as she was being choked, she was not struggling.

Red: Instead, she was being choked, but instead of struggling, she decided to grab on one of the creatures' appendages and decided to stroke it.

Red: Yes.

Red: And thus starts our second session of vigorous action with the said creature, with this time with even more fluids.

Tom: They build up as the episode unfolds to greater and greater heights, it must be said.

Red: True, true, exactly.

Tom: But at this point, as we can tell from the immediate post-choking stroking, she is at this stage now fully invested in her new lava.

Red: So basically, she's like half invested.

<v SPEAKER_>She wasn't fully in love with this being yet.

Red: She was still quite dedicated to her husband.

Red: She was still caught between the two at this point.

Red: Yeah, yeah.

Red: She had a conflicting moment.

Red: Yeah, so after that night, I believe she didn't have a wink of sleep.

Red: Yeah, I believe the situation just cuts to her waking up in the morning and finally taking her bath and sending her husband off to work.

Tom: But he still has not died once thus far.

Red: Maybe he did off screen, who knows?

Red: Yeah, yeah.

Red: So but even the next morning, like when they were having their breakfast, she was in quite a daze, because she couldn't really pay attention to what her husband was talking.

Red: And she had to ask her, her husband had to ask her, are you okay?

Red: Like, you're kind of absent minded right now.

<v SPEAKER_>She was like, oh, no, it's fine.

Red: Maybe I just didn't sleep that much, obviously.

Tom: The husband didn't ask why though, luckily.

Red: True, yeah, yeah.

Tom: Which once again is another example against him.

Red: You're building up like arguments against this husband.

Tom: I just saying, I think I can understand and relate to her in this role at this point.

Tom: I'm starting to empathize with her and perhaps take her side.

Red: But maybe the story afterwards, maybe you'll change your mind.

Red: Yeah, so after that, she did try to do some cleaning, I believe, but she was immediately reminded of her lovely night with her, basically lover at this point.

Tom: Yep.

Red: Yeah, so she decided to have a little self-love moment, but that wasn't enough for her, so she tried to go search for her lover who was hiding among somewhere in her house.

Tom: Well, I think this is probably my favourite scene in the whole cinematic masterpiece, where she is looking through various cupboards in the house, and I thought this was actually legitimately, deliberately funny, so I have to give them credit for it.

Red: Oh, she tried looking into a pot, and that got me.

Red: I have to say that got me.

Red: The hide-and-seek session ended with her finding her lover in the toilet seat.

Tom: Given that this was working in the toilet, perhaps not the cleanest part of the house, I think perhaps the questionable hygiene of a husband was something that may have attracted her to him in the first place.

Tom: I think we're starting to get a picture of what her type might be at this point.

Red: Oh, so she likes the nasty guy.

Red: It's going to make me feel something at the back of my throat, let's not.

Red: So yeah, so basically after finding her lover inside the toilet, she had another lovely session with it.

Red: And yeah, skipping to all that, that was also another fluid fest.

Tom: It was indeed.

Tom: Yeah, so she...

Tom: At least it took place in the bathroom where the floor is tiled, so the cleanup would be easier, although given that it just evaporates instantly, it probably doesn't matter anyway.

Red: True, true.

Red: So basically after that scene, I believe it cuts to her husband coming home, and I believe her husband did try to invite her for another vigorous action session, but she wasn't interested.

Red: She happily told her husband that.

Red: Let's not.

Red: And proceeded to sleep.

Red: So as husbands do, they believe that with his wife saying that she does not want to do it, he believes that she was cheating on him, which is technically true.

Red: Yeah, basically, he was right.

Red: So in order to basically catch her red-handed, he basically told a lie to his wife, saying that he was going on a business trip the next day.

Red: I keep on mispronouncing their pronouns.

Tom: That's okay.

Red: You're misgendering them.

Red: Yeah.

Red: So basically, after his wife prepared his suitcase and all, to send him off for his quote unquote business trip.

Red: So after he left the house, the wife believed that he wouldn't come back in a few days.

Red: So she decided to happily skip to find her lover again, that was hiding somewhere again inside the house.

Red: I would assume the toilet again.

Tom: I can't remember where it was actually either.

Red: They didn't show where it was.

Tom: So we just cut straight to the action.

Red: Yeah, it just ended with her skipping to somewhere to find where the fuck was it.

Red: But yeah, so basically after that, it cuts to her husband who was smoking outside their house until evening.

Tom: I also found that shot quite amusing where he's just standing in a park, chainsawing, waiting to return.

Red: It wasn't a park, it was one of like, he was just legit standing in front of his house the whole day.

Tom: Yeah, across the street, but I think it was the entrance to a park that he was standing in.

Red: Yeah, that might be true, actually.

Red: But I just remember he was just standing beside, he was standing beside a lamp post, I believe, with the cigarette buds on the floor, which indicates that he stood there for quite some time.

Tom: Very subtle storytelling there, that they give you the progression of time through the number of cigarette buds.

Red: Well, basically, the sun was already setting in that scene, so you can kind of guess.

Tom: They're building on the imagery.

Red: So basically, not questioning if it's weird, if someone just stood there for the entire day.

Red: He did not saw anyone going into the house, which would mean that she wasn't cheating, but he decided to do a bold move and decided to enter the house and tried to hear if there is any noises, which in fact, he did.

Tom: There were certainly noises.

Red: Yeah, he heard noises, and he was immediately like shooketh.

Red: And he head towards the noise and decided to open the door.

Red: And what does he see?

Red: He sees his wife being surrounded by plenty of appendages, and she was enjoying whatever the hell was happening to her.

Tom: And very much drenched in a variety of fluids as well.

Red: At this point, yes.

Red: But surprisingly, she still had her underwear on.

Tom: That is true.

Red: Yes.

Red: So he was basically actually at that scene, it was also a bit weird, because the camera didn't show his reaction, because if usually someone sees that situation, they would just immediately either start screaming or start questioning that person, what the hell is going on?

Red: But no, it took him like a few minutes for him to post his question to his wife and ask, what is this?

Red: In a very shocked manner.

Red: And she was again drowned in pleasure.

Red: She just looked at her husband all drowsy, and she was like, I'm sorry, dear.

Red: And one of the appendages decided to choke him, and they choked him to death.

Tom: Which I personally was very disappointed in.

Red: Yes, that is the same for me, because what me and my friend expected is that we expected the creature to bring the husband into the act.

Tom: That's exactly what I was hoping for.

Red: Yeah, technically it would have been more fun, but I guess the creature wanted the lady or two itself.

Tom: Unfortunately, it turned out to be even more of a jealous lover than the husband.

Red: Yeah, it could have done that anytime sooner, but we just decided to do this now, for plot reasons, I believe.

Tom: Though alternatively, given the previous choking, perhaps it actually did intend to invite the husband to join them.

Tom: But unfortunately, in this case, the erotic asphyxiation went too far, as it sometimes does in reality, and he was accidentally killed.

Red: Accidentally?

Red: That's what you believe, right?

Tom: It is a possibility.

Red: You know, all theories are accepted.

Red: But after the death of her husband, they went on even with the dead body in front of them for the rest of the video.

Red: And unfortunately, I believe you were quite disappointed with the ending because there wasn't any pregnancy at the end.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: And given the foreshadowing of her wanting to have children with the husband, I think that in fact would have been an even better ending.

Tom: They literally set it up and yet did not follow through on the premise.

Tom: There's a famous quote, I think, by Chekhov, which is along the lines of, If story has a gun in it, it has to be fired at some point.

Tom: And I think this is a case where that sort of advice was not really followed.

Red: Well, I guess the director decided, excuse me, I guess the director decided to fire all his load on that one scene.

Tom: But he was unfortunately shooting blanks.

Red: Mm-hmm.

Red: But I believe his target audience would be quite satisfied with whatever that went on with in that video.

Tom: Well, there was a lot of action in it, so I'd say so.

Tom: I would say so.

Tom: But...

Red: Yeah, but you believe that, you believe that there wasn't much plot in this one.

Tom: I felt there was less plot than in the, the episode we discussed in the previous episode of the Slime Under Podcast, correct?

Tom: And I think the story was a little less complex.

Tom: If it had become a menage a trois, I think it may have been on a similar level of complexity.

Tom: And if they had followed through on the whole pregnancy angle that was previously in the episode at the beginning, I think while it still would have been simpler than the previous complicated detective plot in the other episode, it would have been satisfying in a short and sweet simple love story that would have worked well.

Tom: But I think without that there, it was ultimately...

Red: A short and sweet there.

Tom: It would have been, I think...

Red: Well, it ended with them living happily ever after.

Tom: What was that?

Red: Oh, well, basically, but the story in this one ended with them properly being lovers.

Red: Even, I believe, in the future, they would have children.

Red: But we just don't get to see it in this one.

Tom: Well, that's what I'm saying.

Tom: The other one was willing to skip ahead to the heavily pregnant woman, so it must have skipped head several months.

Tom: I think we could have expected that from this one as well.

Tom: But I think the reason...

Red: I'm pretty sure, but maybe they didn't have enough budget.

Tom: I was about to say probably the reason they didn't do that is maybe they wanted to use a separate set for that.

Tom: But is it that hard?

Tom: I mean, they could probably have taken part of the tentacle puppet and just wound it into a ball and stuck it under her shirt, and that would have been enough.

Tom: So I think it would have been in the budget constraints.

Tom: I think the issue was in the writing, not living up to the potential that was there.

Red: I got to admit, I thought you said you were going to say that you wanted them to stuff the puppet into her.

Tom: Well, I think they did that at various points already.

Red: That would be concerning.

Tom: I think that had previously occurred during some of the action scenes.

Red: Oh, it wasn't that deep.

Red: Those things weren't that big.

Tom: Parts of them were, not a whole ball of them.

<v SPEAKER_>One part of them were.

Red: Yes, but at least that thing didn't went in her, which I regret that I don't have to see that.

Tom: I don't think they could have done that with actors.

Tom: We could have had that occur in an animated version, but probably not with actors.

Red: Oh, even an animated one, I can't deal with that.

Red: It's still weird.

Red: Oh, God.

Red: I think I would actually bark if they actually did that, but, you know, thankfully they spared me from needing to clean up my room.

Tom: Luckily.

Tom: But I think it's time we get into the themes of the show of Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles.

Red: So we're getting into this?

Tom: Yeah, I have some deep thoughts on this.

Tom: Would you like to begin or me?

Red: Well, I basically have the same...

Red: Wait, the same what?

Red: Oh, wait, I basically have the same vision of the same...

Red: English, my goodness.

Red: Oh, we got deep into this.

Red: My goodness.

Red: My brain was just sobering up for a second.

Tom: Do you want me to begin?

Red: Yeah, I have the same thought as our previous session.

Red: I don't think much.

Red: I just accept what they give me.

Tom: That is fair.

Red: Yeah, I don't think much into this.

Tom: You're the expert at the plot, I'm the expert at the themes.

Red: At the theories, yes.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: There's one thing you didn't mention that I thought was actually an important detail throughout it that really underscore what I thought the themes were about, and that is you did mention one thing that came up, which was that when she was cleaning the bathroom, she was wearing crocs.

Tom: But of course, in Japanese culture, you do not wear shoes within the house, generally speaking.

Tom: So that was one of the first things I thought that was a little odd.

Tom: The other thing I thought that was odd was they went to the effort of showing what the husband was eating for breakfast every day.

Tom: And he was wearing a suit and tie and carrying a suitcase to work.

Tom: And every breakfast he had, he was eating buttered toast.

Tom: Again, a very Western meal.

Tom: And so I actually thought that this episode was about the American occupation of Japan and the Westernization of Japanese culture that occurred with that.

Tom: So you have the uninteresting and bland, Westernized husband who is symbolizing the American occupation of Japan.

Tom: And this does not satisfy the wife at all.

Tom: And then you have the tentacle monster which goes back to Japanese culture as far back as Hokusai and Woodblock Prince of women mating with octopuses and that sort of thing.

Tom: And she's just blown away by the authentic Japanese culture that she experiences from her tentacle lover.

Tom: So I thought this was very much an anti-American treatise, very much criticizing the American occupation of Japan after the Second World War.

<v SPEAKER_>Wait, I have a question.

<v SPEAKER_>What do you think people wear to work if it's not suit and tie?

Tom: Well, now they wear a suit and tie after the occupation of Japan.

<v SPEAKER_>It's said in a modern society.

<v SPEAKER_>What do you expect?

Tom: I'm just saying that that became universalized with the occupation.

Tom: It began, of course, earlier than that with the industrialization of Japan in the s, but it did not reach a fully ubiquitous state of dress until we get to the further modernization of Japan during American occupation.

<v SPEAKER_>Oh, my goodness, I could never think of that.

<v SPEAKER_>Oh, okay, I have heard enough.

Red: That is enough, I have enough of whatever the fuck you are saying.

Red: So basically, you're saying that she's attracted to traditional men.

Tom: That's right, yes.

Tom: And the basic theme of it is asserting the superiority of traditional Japanese values over the Western ones that have been implanted into Japanese culture of today.

Red: So, I have no words.

Red: I have no words.

Red: You blew, you took the words right off of my mouth, literally.

Red: That was an amazing theory.

<v SPEAKER_>Thank you.

<v SPEAKER_>Yes.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Yeah, I'm pretty sure even the director wouldn't have thought of any of this.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Yeah, they should have put more plot in this, good Lord.

Red: How did you mention all of this?

Tom: The less plot, the greater themes you can make out of it.

Tom: Paradoxically.

Red: Since there's like no, like there's no canon universe.

Tom: That's right, you get to write it yourself.

Red: Maybe you should start a book on this.

Red: Wait, maybe not.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Yeah, I believe that should be all.

Red: We shouldn't bring any more theories into this.

Tom: I think that's probably pretty much everything we have to say on a Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles at this stage.

Tom: I don't think we can really add more to it than that.

Red: I don't think I can add more.

Red: You're stick the cake.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Tom: So I think it's time we give it a rating.

Tom: The first one we discussed, I think you gave it a seven out of and I gave it a six out of

Red: That was because of a dice, yes.

Tom: Yes, did you enjoy this one more or less than the previous one?

Red: Plot wise, I'd say yes, because there was conflict.

Red: Yeah, and I really enjoy conflict.

Red: So I would say I would give it like, a point higher than the previous one.

Tom: So eight out of

Red: Yes.

Tom: That's high praise, very high praise.

Red: Yes, yes.

Tom: I think I probably enjoyed it slightly less, because I was very much into the whole detective subplot in the other one.

Tom: But on the other hand, it did have a legitimately and deliberately funny moment in it.

Tom: And I found the character of the husband and the wife very amusing throughout.

Tom: So overall, probably I enjoyed it about the same, but we will see what the die of destiny has to say about my true thoughts on it.

Red: Very well, very well.

Red: Let destiny decide it for you then.

Tom: Well, apparently what I described as my feelings were actually correct, because the die of destiny has rolled another six.

Red: Oh, so basically, you can say it's kind of the same, but since you feel that it would be better, so basically you can give it a seven.

Tom: No, it's a six out of

Tom: The die, whatever the result is, is the result that I stick with.

Red: Oh, so it's just, all right.

Red: So, all right, I'll accept it.

Tom: So, with that, I think we've reached the end of episode two of the Slime Under Podcast.

Tom: I have been your host, Tom Towers, and you, Red, have been my co-host.

Tom: Is there anything you'd like to leave the listeners with before we go?

Red: Please do not go and research anymore in depth into this genre, because I really don't recommend, unless you're in for a laugh, you can laugh for the rest, because you can laugh for, even with times too speed, you can laugh for quite some time watching these.

Tom: I do recommend watching a lot of it sped up as they are quite long.

Red: Unfortunately, I did not.

Tom: So you watched the whole thing on normal speed.

Red: I did not watch normally.

Red: I skipped a few parts.

Tom: So your strategy is to skip parts, and my strategy is to speed it up.

Tom: Both of us.

Red: Yeah, but it was fun, you know.

Red: So if any of you guys are bored, you can, you know, you can watch it, but I really don't recommend.

Tom: You don't recommend the thing you gave an eight out of

Red: That was because of, that was because of it.

Red: It was my personal experience, okay?

Red: I lost my brain cells for this session.

Tom: That is fair.

Red: That was a wild ride.

Red: But my goodness, your theories, I cannot handle.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: I wanted to laugh harder, but I'm pretty sure my parents are going to be questioning.

Red: I could not think of all that bullshit.

Red: Maybe next time, I should think of my theories instead of leaving it up to you.

Red: Well, if your friend decided to allow us to do another third installment in this.

Red: I'm looking forward to seeing what he thinks of it.

Red: Yeah, he should watch the two links.

Tom: He needs to watch them and leave his comment on the episode.

Red: I'm surprised you didn't send him the link, actually, because the friend that I watched it with, after we finished watching it, he immediately sent to his other friends.

Red: And even one of his friends said that, yo, I recognize that actor.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Tom: But he's the true expert.

Red: He don't know much of it, but he just said that he recognized the actor, I guess, by watching others, other works, I guess.

Tom: Something we didn't mention on here was, I have to say, I am very impressed by the actors not co-op sing at any point.

Red: I mean, basically, all the actors in these, you know, type of shows are always, you know, good actors.

Tom: They are true professionals.

Red: I'm surprised their voice could hold up that long.

Red: I just hope whatever that was sprayed in their mouth is actually properly edible.

Red: Because I don't want that to be like crops that you can't digest.

Game Under Podcast 138

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Since Phil is on assignment, Tom and Red recorded a short episode analyzing a tentacular genre of Japanese film. There are some slight technical difficulties that are corrected in future episodes of Slime Under Podcast.

Thanks for listening to this (non-canon) episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Transcript
Tom: Hello and welcome to episode one of the Slime Under Podcast.

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I'm joined by my co-host, Red.

Red: Yes, hello everyone.

Red: I'm very excited to be here with my dear friend Tom.

Tom: You're actually the expert on this show.

Tom: That's why you're here.

Tom: I'm just here for the color.

Red: I can't really say I'm the expert.

Red: Just been exposed to some of them.

Tom: You exposed yourself to some of them, you might say.

Red: Some of them, yes.

Tom: And these things we're referring to, we won't be discussing the types of things that Red has seen the most of, but we will be discussing an outcropping of it, which is live action, adult-orientated, tentacle romance videos, I would call them.

Tom: Is that a fair description?

Red: There's a lot of censorship, but yes, very fair.

Tom: Well, with the censorship, they're pretty family-friendly, aren't they, actually?

Red: Are you sure about that?

Tom: Well, I mean, there's technically less nudity than there is in German or Italian children's films, for example.

Red: Not to say I've watched them, but in the one that I watched with you, that wasn't exactly family-friendly, I'd say.

Tom: So even with the censorship, it wasn't family-friendly.

Red: Technically, did they censor them?

Tom: And it did feature puppets as well, so I think it was clearly aimed at children.

Red: Oh, I digress.

Tom: But what was the title of this modern-day Romeo and Juliet tale that we watched?

Red: It was the first one.

Red: Oh dear, I don't quite remember.

Red: Maybe it's best not to mention the name for specific reasons.

Tom: Well, so we will just describe what we watched then without a title.

Tom: Reference to the...

Red: Should I explain the plot?

Tom: Why don't you describe it?

Tom: Go ahead.

Red: Oh, okay.

Red: Technically the first one we watched was, I would say, interesting.

Red: It started off with an investigator who is investigating a crime scene, since the whole video was in Japanese.

Red: She and her partner found some very gleeful substances that was present at that particular crime scene.

Red: I do not know what happened, actually.

Red: At that moment, I guess someone disappeared or something in that hospital room, I guess.

Tom: It was a bit hard to tell what exactly was going on.

Tom: But given that it was a detective story of sorts, perhaps that is in its favour, that it's hard to tell what's going on, so that it keeps you on the edge of your seat as you wander.

Red: Basically, your protagonist is trying to solve this mystery.

Red: But she did the very smart move of trying to impersonate a doctor and infiltrating the hospital at night.

Red: And if my fellow listeners can't adapt in this, this genre, I would say, is that the protagonist would try to dress herself for the occasion.

Red: So she entered a changing room, and she found herself a doctor's coat, and she proceeded to change.

Red: She proceeded to wear the doctor's coat, thinking that she is having a great disguise for infiltrating a hospital at night.

Red: After changing, she went out, and just by walking on one corridor turning left, she got caught by an actual doctor.

Tom: And as you would expect to happen in a hospital, if a doctor finds someone impersonating a doctor, his immediate reaction was to be in stripping her naked.

Red: Yes, I believe that is what would happen if it happens in real life.

Tom: Which is, understand, all that looking for weapons and other concealed items that might be dangerous.

Red: Yes, he proceeded to take...

Red: Wait, the thing is, I don't think investigators possess guns.

Red: I don't think...

Red: I mean, they're investigators.

Red: I don't think they would have guns.

Tom: It might have been said in America.

Red: I don't think...

Red: They are speaking Japanese.

Tom: So, then everyone would have a gun.

Red: I mean, maybe, no.

Red: Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.

Red: So, for some reason, our dear investigator had a gun, and she didn't fight back for some reason when the doctor took the gun out of her hand.

Tom: Very poor training.

Tom: And we can conclude it was definitely not said in America then, or she would have immediately shot him.

Tom: But go on.

Red: Yes.

Red: I believe that scene was to build up tension for the viewers, like the doctor slowly...

Red: The doctor that caught her was not convinced, even though she's taken off her clothes, that she is not convinced that there is no deadly weapon or I don't know what would she be hiding in her underwears.

Tom: I think they were about to go on to a cavity search until a nurse discovered them.

Red: Yes, but technically until that part, I have a lot of questions for that scene too, because when one of the authorities came and chased after the doctor who decided to strip her for some reason, they ran away in such an awkward way.

Red: I couldn't take the video seriously.

Tom: I'm wondering if perhaps, given that the doctors ran away when the nurse appeared, I think it was a nurse, that the doctors ran away.

Red: The nurse was the one who informed the authorities.

Red: The night guard, I guess.

Tom: Yeah, well, when they were interrupted, given that the doctors ran away, I think the twist is that they were also only pretending to be doctors.

Tom: But we're doing something else in the hospital.

Red: Could be, could be.

Red: I mean...

Tom: That's my theory.

Red: Since we don't understand, since we don't understand the language, you know, theories can come from any direction.

Tom: But what were your questions about the same?

Red: Well, of course, the stripping part was very questionable.

Red: She was voluntarily stripping herself, just to prove her innocence.

Tom: Shows how committed she is.

Red: And that is...

Red: Yes, but maybe that's the question that's seen anymore.

Red: The more questioning part is after that.

Tom: So what happens after this scene?

Tom: And we should add that this discussion does feature spoilers.

Red: Yes, it was skipping after that getting chased away scene.

Red: I think there was a time skip after a week or something.

Red: She got contacted from the nurse from the hospital saying that I guess her investigative friend was also arrested.

Red: I have a lot of questions.

Red: She's trying her best to find out what happened during the crime scene at that hospital, but it wasn't really making much sense to the audience.

Tom: Do you think it would have made less or more sense if we could understand Japanese?

Red: I'm pretty sure they would have better contact if we understood the language, but based on just watching it, you can just kind of get the gist of it.

Red: But the plot was just there as extra for you to understand how did our dear investigator ended up in her situation.

Tom: And how would you describe the situation that she ends up in exactly?

Red: Hmm, very, quite sticky, I'd say.

Tom: I think that is a good description of it.

Red: But after skipping all that, for some reason she decided to go back to the hospital.

Red: And she managed to get the information, quote unquote information from one of the laptops in the.

Red: While she was exiting the hospital, she accidentally stepped on something gooey.

Red: Even explaining it now, I can picture all that shit.

Tom: It's got very striking imagery.

Tom: It's very, very powerful.

Red: As normal people do when they see a glowing green light behind a curtain, she went and invited her back.

Red: She opened the curtains, and all of a sudden, something grabbed her ankle, and started pulling her into the room.

Red: And thus, how long was that scene?

Red: Like one and a half hours of very action, very vigorous action began.

Tom: It was quite long, very long.

Tom: I would argue perhaps a little bit too long.

Red: The plot was only for like minutes.

Tom: But after this, she returned home.

Tom: So her first encounter...

Red: Oh yeah, you can do the ending once you're done.

Tom: You did the first half of the plot, I'll cover the second half.

Tom: So after her first encounter with this mystery creature in the hospital, in a room glowing green, which perhaps may have some themes to it that we'll get to at the end of our discussion on it.

Tom: But after this, she returns home in a very disheveled state.

Tom: But as she thinks about her experience with this monster, she begins to grow a little bit of sympathy and feeling for it, I would say.

Tom: Did you get the same impression?

Red: Yes.

Red: It is...

Red: She felt like a...

Red: I feel like after her very intimate action with those creatures, she started growing feelings for those...

Red: I can't really call it things, that would be too rude.

Tom: It's very endearing, very endearing.

Tom: But so, as the story continues, this relationship continues to blossom.

Tom: And the investigation plot does continue, but it's a little hard to tell what exactly she discovers as the story goes along, given that neither of us can speak Japanese.

Tom: But one detail we can discern is that the nurse that was helping her was actually on the side of the mystery creature, because at a later point in the film, we see her interacting with it and in fact helping it.

Tom: So that's an interesting wrinkle in the plot, which unfortunately our lack of Japanese can't make too much sense of, but was an interesting twist.

Tom: But by the end of the film, there's to me a very touching ending, where we return to as we began the film, in a very ring story structure moment, we return to just a standard hospital bed.

Tom: This case, instead of it being a crime scene, the protagonist is lying in bed, very heavily pregnant, and the nurse who introduced her to her new life partner is there as well, and they share a little conversation celebrating the pregnancy of the relationship that she helped set up, and I thought that was very touching and effective.

Tom: And not the direction I expected to go in either, given the whole detective subplot.

Red: Yes, that is my response.

Red: That is my response for the entire segment.

Red: Oh my goodness, I didn't, I wasn't able to get to the end, because due to my very poor connection, and I'm pretty sure the FBI agent is probably watching me.

Tom: Might be the FBI agent in the show that is watching you.

Red: No, that's not a theory we will get to.

Tom: You may be paid a visit by an investigator who will lead you to a glowing green room.

Tom: Do not enter it, whatever you do.

Red: Oh God, if you watch me, if I step on something gooey on the floor, my first instinct is to run.

Red: I ain't gonna investigate that shit.

Red: Yeah, should we get into the theories of what, of this first video that we saw?

Tom: I think it's time we get into a serious and deep thematic analysis.

Tom: Absolutely.

Red: I'm pretty sure you have more theories than me because usually I don't think that much when I watch these.

Tom: Well, let's begin with yours then.

Red: The plot speaks for itself for me because she got pregnant with the creature's child and she lived happily ever after.

Red: What's more is there to say?

Tom: So it's a very sweet ending then.

Red: Yes, it's straightforward and it's sweet.

Red: Even though I never watched it.

Tom: I like it.

Tom: Well, my theory is actually comes from you just emphasizing the green glow in the room.

Tom: That made me think that that may in fact have a important significance to it because this is a Japanese film, of course.

Tom: And I don't know if you've ever watched any Japanese media, but they are still, they still do think, and fair enough, often of the two nuclear bombings that they underwent.

Tom: So I was thinking this may be the entire thing about Japan's reaction to the nuclear bombings and the mutations that occurred there.

Red: So you are touching on a very sensitive topic, don't you know that?

Red: Who knows?

Tom: So I'm thinking that this creature, mystery creature, is in fact a result of radiation exposure and when the characters are first encountering it, they're frightened of it and want to reject it as a part of their past and history.

Tom: But as they think about it more and interact with it more, they see that it is perhaps something to be embraced and something that can become a positive part of their history and sense of themselves in some way.

Tom: So that's my theory on the…

Red: Damn, you thought a lot on this.

Tom: Maybe I'm the expert here after all.

Red: Oh my goodness.

Red: Oh god, well, wait, I'm dead thinking, if that creature is a product of radiation, would it harm the human?

Tom: Well I think that's what they were afraid of at first, but…

Red: It worked out.

Tom: It worked out okay in the end.

Red: Okay, I'll accept that theory, you know, it's fine, it's fine.

Red: But then again, I'm pretty sure that creature was something that the doctors at that hospital was experimenting on, for god knows what reasons.

Tom: That is quite possibly the case, but…

Red: Yeah, and the investigator happens to accidentally stumble upon it, and I believe the creature has probably fell in love at first sight at this very lovely investigator.

Tom: I think that we can come up with commentary on so many different layers of it, just shows you the depth of what we're dealing with.

Red: Despite it having a completely different reason on this, but we have gone into such deep lengths on theories for this.

Red: I mean, we could, you know, talk more about it, but we have another one, actually.

Tom: Before we move on from this one, will we give this a rating?

Red: For me, I'd say like a out of

Tom: So not bad at all.

Tom: Pretty good rating there.

Red: Yeah, not bad, I'd say.

Tom: Well, my rating system actually uses a dice, so I roll the dice.

Tom: It's a ten-sided dice, and whatever number I get is the rating I give.

Tom: So I will now roll the dice of Destiny.

Red: Very well.

Tom: And I give it a out of so a little bit lower than you.

Red: Look, Destiny says it's good, okay?

Tom: But even Random Chance gives it a positive rating, so it did very well.

Red: So shall we go on to the second one?

Tom: And let's indeed move on to the next.

Red: So basically, I asked Tom here to send me the links to our second video, which he actually sent more than one.

Tom: I think I sent four, and we watched two of them.

Tom: So maybe there will be an episode two with the other two.

Tom: If the listeners out there are excited for it, which I'm sure they are.

Red: Well, if it's supply and demand, I think...

Red: Yeah.

Red: So the second one, I...

Red: Oh wait, should we say the name?

Red: Because we have that link.

Red: We have the title of it.

Tom: Let's do it.

Tom: Let's name and shame, or name and glorify, depending on what we think of it.

Red: I hope you're going to glorify this title.

Tom: Also was the first one possibly called Investigated, Buried and Drowning Under Tentacles?

Red: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Red: That's exactly...

Tom: So we do have the name of the first one as well, luckily.

Red: Yeah, mind you, this is not family friendly.

Red: Not exactly family friendly, so please, please have a warning before entering the...

Red: before searching this.

Red: Yeah, and the second one that both of us watched is called Nurse Addicted to Tentacles Sex?

Tom: No, wasn't it?

Tom: I don't think so.

Tom: I think it was...

Red: Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Red: That was the first one.

Red: Oh, god damn it.

Tom: No, the first one was the Investigator.

Tom: That was another one that we haven't watched, I believe.

Tom: The second one...

Red: Was it Alan Under Wiggling Tentacles?

Tom: No, I think it is Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles.

Red: Oh, I just remembered, I didn't save that.

Red: Yeah, that was my bad.

Red: I did not paint that.

Tom: We got there in the end, though, so that's okay.

Red: Yeah, that's fine.

Red: Well, at least the listeners have two more extras.

Tom: For the next episode, they can watch them in advance and contribute their own thoughts in the comments below.

Red: Oh, that'll be interesting.

Red: All right, you heard it here, folks.

Tom: So what was the story of Busty Wife's Chastity Collapses Under Tentacles?

Red: For this one, I actually understood some of what they said in the story, actually.

Red: And to me, I felt like this one had more plot, but Tom digressed.

Tom: I feel like it has less plot.

Red: I don't know.

Red: There was less action scenes.

Tom: I thought there were more.

Tom: I thought there were more action scenes in total.

Red: I don't know, technically, the time, the duration of the video was sort of the same.

Tom: Yeah, but I think the percentage of action scene time was less in the first one.

Tom: I think your impression may possibly be different of the first because you didn't watch the entirety of it.

Red: Well, basically, the first one was half an hour and a half just them doing it.

Tom: I think this was too, though.

Red: What more plot was there?

Tom: Well, it was a whole complicated story about a detective.

Tom: And then there was the whole love story subplot as well.

Tom: Whereas here, it's more just a pure love story, I would say.

Red: But there was a, I can't think of the word for adultery, I guess.

Red: You know what, I'm not trying to try to...

Tom: It is a love triangle, a love triangle.

Red: Oh.

Red: When you say it like that, okay, yeah.

Tom: A classic love triangle story.

Red: Yes, yes.

Red: Alright, so do you want me to explain the second one?

Tom: Please do.

Red: Alright, alright.

Red: Okay, it started off with a couple moving into a house where they, or where they were Oh, Jesus, I kind of forgot how we kind of started.

Red: Yeah.

Red: Basically, these two, this couple finally moved into their new house.

Red: And the setting was basically with all of their boxes that is in their living room.

Red: They haven't finished unboxing and the wife was having, was it breakfast?

Red: Yeah, yeah.

Red: Like breakfast with his, excuse me, with her husband.

Red: So they were talking about, oh, their life is going to be so great in this new house.

Red: And they were actually also planning on, you know, having a family and the wife was so happy about it.

Red: So the conversation went on for like a few minutes.

Tom: Very, very endearing, I would say.

Red: Yes, so she, after her breakfast, she sent her husband off to work, and she started cleaning her new house, which the cleaning scenes was sensual, I think.

Tom: It has a very interesting camera angles and points of focus.

Red: There were many interesting camera angles, like you said.

Red: I actually didn't tell you, I was watching this with my friend.

Tom: The friend should have joined us, we could have had another...

Red: Yeah, he was as confused as I was, because he never watched these things before.

Tom: So you were introducing a whole new world to her.

Red: Wait, what?

Tom: You were introducing a whole new world to her.

Red: Yes, a world that he never knew existed.

Red: Yeah, so basically both of both me and my friend was basically like in a confused state watching all these new angles.

Red: Just from this wife cleaning the bathroom, mopping the floor, and that was it.

Red: Yeah, so after cleaning, she was walking into the living room where there were plenty of boxes.

Red: But all of a sudden, again, with the iconic grabbing your ankle scene, she got grabbed, and she was pulled down.

Red: And thus the action started.

Red: For how long?

Red: I actually don't know.

Tom: I think the first one was a quite short interaction.

Red: Yeah, yeah, actually, they were quick on it.

Red: They were quick on it.

Red: They started, you know, maybe I want to explain in detail on what happened in that action scene.

Tom: There were a lot of fluids involved.

Red: Oh, yes.

Red: The second one had more fluids than the first.

Red: Oh dear, you actually reminded me of that.

Red: I completely forgotten about that.

Red: Yes, so they went on and they did it until the wife passed out actually.

Tom: I think she may have almost drowned considering the quantity of fluids spraying everywhere.

Red: Yeah, true, but let's just think of it as she passed out because she woke up after that.

Red: It was during the evening when she woke up and she was woken up by her husband who came back from work.

Red: And oddly enough, the husband did not question why her wife was passed out in the middle of the living room, oddly enough not covered in fluids.

Tom: I think they dried up.

Tom: That's my explanation.

Red: The floor was covered with it too.

Tom: Some liquids can dry and disappear pretty well.

Red: Completely.

Red: No stain whatsoever.

Tom: And her clothes were dry as well.

Red: And her clothes was on her as well.

Tom: Well, partly on her.

Tom: She was in a semi-disheveled state, I would say.

Red: But oddly enough, her husband did not question that.

Red: And or why was she passed out in the middle of the living room?

Tom: You would have thought, he might have thought, that she had had a stroke or something, and they probably should have sought medical attention at that stage.

Red: Yeah.

Red: But the husband was not at all worried.

Red: But the wife, of course, tried to, oh dear, the dog passed out fucking.

Tom: I think his reaction is actually the first sign that their relationship may not be as idyllic as it first appeared.

Red: But, you know, the husband, wait, the wife tried to explain her situation.

Red: She tried to explain to her husband, saying that she got assaulted by something, something that she can't explain.

Red: And of course, as normal human beings do, they decided to brush it off and said that, you know, she might have been hallucinating or something.

Tom: Again, a sign that he's not a very good husband, just dismissing his wife like that.

Red: After that scene, they, oh yeah, they had a passionate night together, the husband and wife.

Red: But during their actions, I feel bad, I feel weird for calling it action.

Red: But now, let's just go on with that.

Red: Yeah, while they were doing it, the wife wasn't feeling it as much because she was reminded of a very vigorous, vigorous moment with the mystical creature.

Tom: Vigorous and much moister experience.

Red: Yeah, so she was reminded of that, but she decided to just kind of brush it off.

Red: So after that, she went after their session, after their session, she decided to, she did ask her husband, I remember, she did ask her husband, don't you want to take a bath?

Red: But her husband was like, nah, I'll just do it in the morning or something.

Red: So she was, the question is, she said she wanted to take a bath, but she went down to the kitchen instead for a drink of water.

Red: And that confused me for a moment, but.

Tom: She was getting a drink on the way to the bathroom.

Tom: She was thirsty.

Red: Yeah, maybe.

Red: So she went, but while she was in her kitchen, pantry, I'd say, again, she was met with her beloved mystical creature.

Red: And that was another segment that we will not explain.

Red: Even during that scene, me and my friend was also quite confused, because first she was on the way.

Red: Wait, wait, wait.

Red: She was she was being choked.

Red: She was being choked.

Red: But she wasn't struggling.

Tom: I believe Chokin may have been a kink for her.

Red: Maybe.

Red: But maybe we won't get into that for now.

Red: So basically they had different positions in this segment.

Red: Oddly enough.

Tom: And even more liquid.

Red: Yeah.

Red: But she woke up.

Tom: Wait, I just realized, I just realized, this explains the bath confusion.

Tom: So she went down to, yep, she said she was going to have a bath, and she was indeed bathed by the mystical creature.

Red: Oh, God, that is, that, that's a whole different reason.

Red: That's a whole different context.

Red: You know what, never mind.

Red: Never mind.

Red: She knew she is, she knew what she wants, you know, that she was slowly beginning to develop feelings for this creature.

Red: So we shouldn't judge her.

Tom: I think it was pretty fast.

Tom: I think the relationship developed a lot quicker than in the other film.

Tom: So that pretty much brings us to the end of the first episode of Slime Under.

Tom: We both hope you enjoyed it.

Tom: And in the next episode, I will be returning with Red to discuss yet another episode in what may be a series.

Tom: I hope you enjoyed yourself, Red.

Red: Of course.

Red: It was, I was delayed.

Red: Excuse me.

Red: I was delighted to be here, truly.

Red: Ben, I'm gonna go first.

Red: Sorry, bye.

Game Under Podcast 137

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction

0:00:20 Hi

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:00:55 Art of Rally - Switch and PC

0:01:55 Rally Car Racing

0:04:40 Phil copies Tom's Homework

0:06:15 Tom's Views

0:12:10 Kenya Dig It? (New Kenya DLC)

ASMR and Whiskey Update

0:17:20 Just for Keen Listeners

0:20:25 Sky News Update (the game, not the network)

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:21:45 Hot Shot Racing & Comparitive Analysis of N64 and PS1/ Arcade Games

0:23:00 Top Gear Overdrive N64 Burros and Hotdogs

0:25:15 Hot Shot Racing

0:27:10 Speed Devils & Speed Busters

0:37:00 Need For Speed: Heat

0:43:00 Wipeout

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:44:20 Jason Schreier's New Book Press Reset

0:47:45 The Atlantic, ACLU and The New Yorker walk into a Bar

First Impressions - Both Hosts

0:51:15 Back to Hot Shot Racing and Arcade Racing

Food Review - Tom Towers

0:53:00 ASMR Food Test - Vegan Fish (Phil is Disgusted)

1:01:45 Honkey Doree Gets a Coveted "Repeat Eat"

Trademark Banter

1:02:00 Giantbomb.com Cleans House with Bleach

1:05:20 Top Three Tourism Promoters

1:05:55 Not For Sale Anecdote

1:10:00 Jeff Gerstmann Animosity

1:15:10 No Clip

Final Thoughts - Tom Towers

1:22:45 Omno on PC

1:23:25 Tim Keenan

Off Topic

1:27:35 Twitter @gameunderphil

1:28:30 Say What You Will About Homefront

1:30:50 Back to Twitter

Final Thoughts - Tom Towers

1:34:30 The Last Stop

1:42:35 Gamespot as Internet Incubator

First Impressions - Tom Towers

1:50:35 The Ramp

Transcript

Phil: Hi, everyone, this is Phil Fogg.

Phil: Welcome to episode 137 of Australia's longest-running video game podcast, The Game Under Show, The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Ah, Tommy, you're still there, mate, after all those false starts.

Tom: Yes, I am, and I just assume that's gonna be the one long cold open.

Phil: Well, no, certainly none of the audience will get to hear any of that stuff.

Phil: Well, I might put it at the end of the show, but the important thing is we are recording Australia's longest-running video game podcast.

Phil: And I've got to admit that since the last recording, I've probably spent more time editing our podcasts than I have been playing video games, in at least new ones.

Phil: I've been mostly playing Yakuza Like a Dragon.

Phil: But today, actually, you turned me on to the fact that a game that you had reviewed some time ago, Art of Rally, is actually now being brought out on the Switch and PlayStation 4 and Xbox.

Phil: It previously was not on that platform. So I was able to download it and play a small part of it.

Tom: Well, it's finally had its console release after being previously only on PC.

01:24.420 --> 01:26.580

Phil: It's from the team called Funselektor.

01:27.260 --> 01:29.180

Phil: And I'm assuming that they're Finnish.

01:30.080 --> 01:31.020

Tom: I think so.

01:31.040 --> 01:32.840

Phil: I mean, the game does start.

01:33.480 --> 01:34.560

Tom: It is a rally game.

01:35.160 --> 01:35.500

Phil: Yeah.

01:35.620 --> 01:40.120

Phil: And did they invent, did Finland invent rally?

01:40.800 --> 01:41.340

Phil: The sport of rally?

01:41.360 --> 01:44.000

Tom: I don't think they invented it, but they mastered it.

01:44.300 --> 01:44.780

Phil: Okay.

01:45.180 --> 01:48.680

Tom: And they did invent some disciplines of it, at least.

01:48.920 --> 01:57.800

Phil: We should say the Art of Rally is a video game that's basically based on the motorsport of rally art or, I'm sorry, what do you call it?

01:57.980 --> 01:59.740

Phil: Rally car racing or?

01:59.760 --> 02:01.760

Tom: I think you call it rally racing.

02:01.880 --> 02:02.700

Phil: Rally racing.

02:02.940 --> 02:03.460

Phil: I don't know why.

02:03.480 --> 02:04.420

Tom: Or simply racing.

02:04.600 --> 02:06.200

Tom: I mean, oh sorry, or simply rally.

02:06.220 --> 02:07.460

Phil: Just rally, right?

02:07.620 --> 02:07.980

Tom: Yes.

02:08.140 --> 02:12.760

Tom: Or if it was an Olympic sport, it might be called sport rally.

02:13.020 --> 02:14.300

Phil: Or rally car racing.

02:15.440 --> 02:19.140

Phil: I don't know why everything I say today sounds ridiculous, but anyway, rally racing.

02:19.760 --> 02:21.460

Tom: So it's just like any other episode.

02:22.240 --> 02:31.800

Phil: Which is a really fascinating thing to watch on television, and it's been emulated in video game form for a long period of time.

02:31.820 --> 02:41.120

Phil: I believe one of our top 10 hardcore games of all time was one that you introduced that's in the genre.

02:41.260 --> 02:41.840

Phil: Isn't that right?

02:42.780 --> 02:43.580

Phil: One of your favorites?

02:44.880 --> 02:46.960

Tom: Oh, Richard Burns Rally, are you thinking of?

02:46.980 --> 02:48.180

Phil: Yeah, Richard Burns Rally.

02:48.200 --> 02:51.520

Phil: I mean, it's been a part of video gaming for quite a time.

02:53.420 --> 03:02.120

Phil: And then, of course, I've reviewed RC Pro-Am several times on the, well, I went through all of the RC Pro-Am games.

03:02.140 --> 03:05.920

Phil: Now, of course, that's remote control cars, so it's not really the same thing.

03:06.480 --> 03:13.720

Phil: But funnily enough, Art of Rally does have that same top-down perspective.

03:13.740 --> 03:15.360

Phil: It's not really isometric.

03:15.380 --> 03:20.000

Phil: It's just the camera's pulled way back as if you were following this from a helicopter.

03:20.780 --> 03:28.300

Phil: So you're not actually driving it in first person or just in third person behind the car like most racing cars, racing games.

03:29.440 --> 03:41.120

Phil: And the Art of Rally is kind of a two-for-one because it's describing the game's very unique and beautiful art style.

03:41.240 --> 03:47.260

Phil: It's no textures at all, at least in the way that you'd think of them traditionally.

03:48.540 --> 04:06.920

Phil: Everything is very flat, lots of flat modeling and very ambitious, I'd say, but also in terms of development, it lends focus on the physics of the game, which is obviously what the whole point of the game is.

04:07.060 --> 04:07.920

Phil: Is that right?

04:07.940 --> 04:10.020

Phil: Because I've only played it for like 20 minutes.

04:10.040 --> 04:14.900

Phil: You've obviously played it enough to write a review of it at gameunder.net.

04:15.920 --> 04:19.560

Tom: So I may only have played it for 20 minutes, is what you're saying as well.

04:23.020 --> 04:36.460

Phil: I think the primitive colours and impressionistic fidelity of the rally stages and vehicles are easy to harmonise with the dreamy and big goodies of the synthwave soundtrack.

04:36.980 --> 04:39.540

Tom: You're impressively eloquent there, I have to say.

04:40.260 --> 04:46.520

Phil: But also, you know, the anti-lag intake noises and exhaust note and squealing of...

04:46.540 --> 04:48.320

Tom: It complements the music wonderfully, doesn't it?

04:48.360 --> 04:48.960

Phil: It does.

04:50.720 --> 04:55.920

Phil: I mean, it easily finds its niche, you know, in the eclectic percussion.

04:55.940 --> 04:58.160

Tom: I'm blown away by your eloquence there.

04:58.180 --> 04:59.160

Tom: That was so wonderful.

04:59.180 --> 05:00.960

Tom: It was as if you were reading off a script.

05:01.980 --> 05:05.840

Phil: It's almost as if I'm reading a review off of a website.

05:07.160 --> 05:11.500

Phil: But, you know, I've got to say the world of Art of Rally, just from what I've seen, is indeed gorgeous.

05:14.520 --> 05:20.980

Phil: But what I want to know is, does the perspective of the...

05:21.040 --> 05:24.260

Phil: like, do you get to unlock stuff later on?

05:24.260 --> 05:27.060

Phil: Because it is quite basic to start with.

05:27.960 --> 05:31.620

Phil: And I don't feel like I'm even playing with a Tinker toy.

05:31.640 --> 05:32.820

Phil: It doesn't feel...

05:33.320 --> 05:35.140

Phil: other than that the...

05:35.180 --> 05:38.440

Phil: and honestly, I'm not reading your review anymore, but as you can tell.

05:39.840 --> 06:00.740

Phil: But other than the sound and the use of the vibration in the Switch, which I've got to say is exceptional, they've obviously used all the tools that are available for them on the Switch, in terms of using the vibration ability of the Switch controls or the Switch controller.

06:00.760 --> 06:08.820

Phil: Besides that, there's nothing really there to impress me so far.

06:09.980 --> 06:14.760

Phil: And I've got to think that that's only because over time, different things are going to be unlocked.

06:16.100 --> 06:28.140

Tom: Well, I think what you need to do is to alter the driving settings, because the default settings from what I can remember are extremely arcady.

06:29.280 --> 06:43.340

Tom: If you change that to most of the simulations, then it is a genuine simcade game, and that is where, other than the aesthetic of it, the main appeal lies.

06:44.300 --> 06:54.340

Phil: I think it's much like another game that we've both been playing that we'll be talking about later in the same genre, and that's Hot Shot Racing.

06:54.360 --> 06:55.900

Phil: I mean, it has a lot of similarity to it.

06:55.920 --> 07:02.520

Phil: Would you say that Hot Shot Racing is a simcade?

07:03.400 --> 07:04.320

Tom: No, I would not.

07:05.660 --> 07:06.620

Tom: I would certainly not.

07:06.640 --> 07:08.360

Phil: You're just going to say pure arcade.

07:09.020 --> 07:10.460

Tom: That is a pure arcade game.

07:11.740 --> 07:13.600

Tom: Which I believe was their intention.

07:14.100 --> 07:16.380

Tom: And I sincerely hope was their intention.

07:16.400 --> 07:17.620

Phil: We'll get to that later on.

07:18.000 --> 07:20.800

Phil: Okay, so it's not that I will unlock things.

07:20.820 --> 07:22.600

Phil: It's just a matter of the settings.

07:22.700 --> 07:25.880

Tom: Well, what you will unlock as you go along is cars and rallies.

07:28.140 --> 07:31.540

Tom: So you unlock more locations and more vehicles.

07:32.560 --> 07:34.280

Tom: You don't unlock more.

07:34.480 --> 07:35.260

Tom: Well, you do.

07:35.260 --> 07:36.400

Tom: You unlock free roam.

07:36.840 --> 07:37.700

Tom: So that's one thing.

07:37.720 --> 07:48.700

Tom: But the main appeal is not unlocking different gameplay modes, but unlocking the rallies as you go along in different places.

07:48.720 --> 07:52.220

Tom: So that's what the career mode consists of.

07:52.240 --> 07:56.600

Tom: Then the main appeal that results in a fair bit of depth to it.

07:57.140 --> 08:01.480

Tom: The campaign maybe takes 10 to 15 hours or so.

08:01.500 --> 08:06.280

Tom: I played it for 25 hours, I think, according to Steam.

08:06.280 --> 08:23.720

Tom: And the reason for that is the main appeal is, other than the aesthetic, the driving physics, which with the right sort of settings are actually very deep and it becomes really enjoyable to be trying to beat the times of other players.

08:24.440 --> 08:30.120

Phil: Yeah, so it's got basically stability assist, which controls the car's rotation.

08:30.880 --> 08:33.700

Phil: You can help tune oversteer and understeer.

08:34.120 --> 08:38.200

Phil: Countersteer factor, which is interesting.

08:38.540 --> 08:43.460

Phil: It's currently set at 160% with stability assist at 100.

08:44.260 --> 08:48.180

Phil: Anti-lock braking is at 50% by default.

08:49.100 --> 08:53.700

Phil: And transmission, you know, automatic or manual, the option.

08:53.720 --> 08:55.020

Phil: So did you play it manual?

08:55.420 --> 08:56.700

Tom: Is there traction control?

08:57.780 --> 08:59.820

Phil: Not under the gameplay settings, no.

09:00.680 --> 09:03.940

Tom: But to answer your question, I did indeed play in manual, of course.

09:04.000 --> 09:04.540

Phil: Okay.

09:05.080 --> 09:10.720

Tom: And I would have to check what the settings are, but I think stability management was off completely.

09:14.360 --> 09:27.980

Tom: Countersteer, I think I had that on to some degree, due to without playing with a wheel, obviously that is what straightens your wheels out when you stop steering, if I remember correctly.

09:28.380 --> 09:31.620

Tom: But I would need to check the fine details of what they are.

09:31.640 --> 09:39.600

Tom: But there would also be steam guides around that would be suggesting what the optimum settings were as well.

09:40.500 --> 09:47.620

Tom: And the other thing as you are going along though is, also bear in mind that the cars you begin with are extremely slow.

09:48.500 --> 09:53.580

Tom: But part of the appeal there is where they are from in rally history.

09:53.600 --> 09:55.520

Tom: So that is still enjoyable.

09:56.920 --> 10:03.420

Tom: And I have to ask you, where did you end up, what difficulty are you playing on and where did you end up in your first rally if you have completed it?

10:04.640 --> 10:15.460

Phil: Well, obviously I think in the first 20 minutes it is just open world play where you are going around collecting photo points and the words rally, not unlike in RC Pro Amp.

10:15.480 --> 10:16.820

Tom: That would be right, yep.

10:16.840 --> 10:20.720

Tom: So you have not actually started the game, essentially.

10:20.740 --> 10:21.020

Phil: No, no.

10:21.040 --> 10:22.080

Tom: That is the tutorial.

10:22.100 --> 10:23.900

Phil: No, I am just trueling around in the tutorial.

10:25.060 --> 10:27.480

Phil: Now, it does offer online support as well.

10:28.900 --> 10:36.500

Tom: The online support consists of not racing against other players, but time attack against them.

10:38.400 --> 10:42.520

Tom: So each rally stage will have a leaderboard for the fastest times on it.

10:43.220 --> 10:50.060

Tom: And then there are also online events, which is you, but not at the same time, rallying against other players.

10:52.140 --> 10:56.800

Tom: And I think that's the main online components of it, if I remember correctly.

10:57.320 --> 11:01.420

Tom: And once you get into it, the leaderboards were very enjoyable.

11:01.440 --> 11:05.460

Tom: I managed to get into...

11:05.660 --> 11:11.940

Tom: I think I got one stage top once, and I got into the top ten on quite a few occasions.

11:12.280 --> 11:15.520

Tom: But as time progressed, people got progressively better and better, of course.

11:15.540 --> 11:19.100

Tom: But I was still managing to keep up somewhat with the top 100.

11:19.500 --> 11:25.400

Tom: I returned to try out some of the Kenya update, which I will comment on in a moment.

11:25.480 --> 11:34.040

Tom: And horrifically, I came in two rallies, seventh against the highest AI difficulty and tenth in another one.

11:34.280 --> 11:39.760

Tom: So I have rather forgotten my skills in Art of Rally, unfortunately.

11:40.300 --> 11:43.920

Phil: Well, I've got to say, I just restarted it to check the camera options.

11:44.160 --> 11:46.980

Phil: And by default, they have it set at four.

11:47.000 --> 11:48.260

Phil: There are eight different...

11:48.460 --> 11:49.760

Tom: You can zoom in and out.

11:49.780 --> 11:50.260

Phil: Exactly.

11:50.360 --> 11:51.920

Phil: So I switched it over to two.

11:52.600 --> 11:54.380

Phil: And that's much more pleasing.

11:54.500 --> 11:56.500

Phil: And I'd probably zoom it in a little bit.

11:56.520 --> 11:59.520

Tom: It will not be once you start driving faster.

11:59.540 --> 11:59.920

Phil: Okay.

11:59.940 --> 12:02.480

Phil: Because you need to see the longer range.

12:02.500 --> 12:02.800

Tom: Correct.

12:02.820 --> 12:02.960

Phil: Yep.

12:03.560 --> 12:05.800

Phil: And yeah, I was just playing the Kenya mode.

12:05.820 --> 12:10.680

Phil: So you have downloaded the update and tried the Kenya mode?

12:11.140 --> 12:11.920

Tom: Yes, I have.

12:12.020 --> 12:12.840

Phil: The Kenya mode.

12:13.200 --> 12:14.080

Phil: The Kenya stage.

12:14.980 --> 12:16.160

Tom: Yes.

12:16.280 --> 12:20.080

Tom: It's a whole rally consisting of, I think, six stages.

12:20.100 --> 12:36.100

Tom: That may be wrong, but around that, it's like six or eight stages, and it also introduces, I think, four cars, three in Group B and one in Group 4, unless it's six cars, then it's five in Group B and one in Group 4.

12:37.380 --> 12:48.380

Tom: And I've driven a Group B car and a Group 4 car, and the Group B car, compared to many of the Group B cars, was very easy to control.

12:48.400 --> 12:54.840

Tom: So I have to try more of them, because part of the appeal of the Group B cars is the difficulty in controlling them.

12:55.460 --> 13:00.400

Tom: But the Group 4 car was suitably oversteery and difficult to control.

13:00.420 --> 13:19.080

Phil: I've got to say, if anyone has any concerns about the fidelity, the visual fidelity, or the frame rate, or anything like that on the Switch, because the Switch has less technical chops than pretty much every other platform that this game is available on, do not be concerned.

13:19.100 --> 13:19.900

Phil: It's wonderful.

13:21.480 --> 13:28.720

Phil: And, you know, probably the visual style of the game helps with that, but it just flows very nicely.

13:28.740 --> 13:31.500

Phil: It was a quick download, easy install.

13:32.460 --> 13:40.780

Phil: It's available on the store for 25 bucks in Australia, so I can't imagine that's the same in the US, but, you know, certainly a good value.

13:40.920 --> 13:42.160

Phil: You can see that it's deep.

13:44.640 --> 13:58.300

Phil: You can see that this is going to get a lot of playtime put into it, which is also perfect for the Switch because it lends itself to portable play and playing just before you go to bed and all that sort of thing.

13:58.360 --> 14:01.840

Phil: So in that sense, I'd recommend it.

14:03.380 --> 14:04.760

Tom: So it's a good first impression.

14:04.960 --> 14:05.820

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

14:05.900 --> 14:15.760

Phil: And these guys, I remember from your original review as well that FunSelector had made a similar game but set in an urban environment prior to this.

14:18.020 --> 14:25.900

Phil: Is that how you came to know them or was it you went back to that after you played this?

14:26.720 --> 14:28.140

Tom: That was Absolute Drift.

14:28.380 --> 14:28.700

Phil: Yep.

14:29.940 --> 14:33.080

Tom: And I played that before Art of Rally.

14:35.700 --> 14:37.920

Tom: Not too long after release, if I remember correctly.

14:39.540 --> 14:42.460

Tom: So I was highly anticipating Art of Rally.

14:43.320 --> 14:48.680

Tom: And Art of Rally is superior in pretty much all areas.

14:48.680 --> 15:08.540

Tom: So it is a tremendously impressive follow up to Absolute Drift, which was an extremely unique and enjoyable arcade racing game in which you were drifting the entire time and just trying to get the highest score.

15:09.140 --> 15:20.700

Tom: While it was a little bit more arcade than Art of Rally, there was enough to it that, again, that was extremely easy to get into, getting as high as possible on the leaderboards.

15:21.540 --> 15:26.020

Phil: Yeah, I'm just on their website now trying to figure out, you know, who they are and where they're from.

15:26.040 --> 15:28.340

Phil: They seem to be a fairly small team.

15:30.360 --> 15:39.400

Phil: There's a founder, vehicle and general artist, developer, developer, developer, sound like Bauma now, developer, producer, creative director.

15:39.420 --> 15:45.300

Phil: But, you know, it's like six or eight different people, which I'm sure if we checked out the credits, they'd all line up.

15:45.320 --> 15:57.780

Phil: Because it's kind of funny that, like, a small, maybe it's not funny at all, but, like, you know, they're like now a driving studio or something like that, you know, so it'd be interesting to see what their next step is going to be.

15:59.060 --> 16:02.680

Phil: But, yeah, you've got to appreciate what they've done here.

16:03.120 --> 16:03.920

Phil: Do you have...

16:03.940 --> 16:05.720

Tom: Do you find out if they were from Finland or...?

16:05.740 --> 16:08.120

Phil: Well, it's not very clear on their website where they're from.

16:09.700 --> 16:12.940

Phil: You know, there's a mention of New Zealand in there, so I feel terrible.

16:12.960 --> 16:22.300

Tom: I'm going to guess they're probably not from Finland, because two of the main people behind Art of Rally are Dune, Casu and Adrian Tassel.

16:26.400 --> 16:31.660

Phil: Is there anything else you want to say about this before we go on to the next topic or next game?

16:31.680 --> 16:57.160

Tom: Well, I must add that they may be a PC case, because in Googling or searching on Bing for Dune, Casu to try and find out his origin, the first result was for the Dune Pro Power to Choose case by dunecase.com, which is a PC case that's engineered for a range of industry standard parts.

16:58.100 --> 17:02.460

Phil: Well, that could explain perhaps the elemental art style.

17:02.860 --> 17:05.780

Phil: So you think this game was made by artificial intelligence?

17:06.500 --> 17:07.900

Tom: It may well have been.

17:08.780 --> 17:09.480

Phil: Interesting.

17:09.720 --> 17:11.400

Phil: They should have put that on the front of the box.

17:11.420 --> 17:13.620

Phil: They probably would have sold some more copies.

17:13.680 --> 17:21.820

Phil: Well, I'm sure that's selling well, because they're obviously porting it over to all these new platforms.

17:21.840 --> 17:25.920

Phil: So I understand that your ASMR session from last time has continued.

17:26.860 --> 17:28.520

Tom: Well, it's been going on in the background.

17:28.540 --> 17:29.740

Tom: So keen listeners...

17:30.380 --> 17:32.780

Phil: That's a reward for keen listeners, is it?

17:33.040 --> 17:33.400

Tom: Yes.

17:34.580 --> 17:35.200

Tom: That's right.

17:35.360 --> 17:38.240

Tom: Obviously there's nothing in the content for them to pay attention to.

17:39.500 --> 17:45.160

Phil: Keen listeners may recall that I drank whiskey on this show for the first time in my life.

17:46.000 --> 17:47.080

Tom: What are you drinking today?

17:51.080 --> 17:54.780

Phil: You may not remember, but my first impression of whiskey was not very good.

17:54.800 --> 17:57.760

Phil: In fact, I think I said it tasted like mothballs.

17:58.700 --> 17:59.300

Tom: Yes, you did.

17:59.520 --> 18:03.460

Phil: But then I went on and, you know, I'm not a big drinker of whiskey.

18:04.340 --> 18:09.500

Phil: But, you know, if I need a break from beer or whatever, I will try a different kind of whiskey.

18:09.520 --> 18:18.040

Phil: Today I'm trying Sheep Dog, which is whiskey with natural flavors, and it's peanut butter whiskey.

18:18.800 --> 18:20.340

Tom: So it's not sheep dog flavor.

18:20.360 --> 18:23.980

Phil: It doesn't taste or smell like a sheep dog, like most whiskey.

18:24.480 --> 18:25.500

Tom: What about lanolin?

18:26.180 --> 18:27.660

Phil: No, it doesn't smell like lanolin.

18:28.480 --> 18:30.720

Tom: So there's nothing sheepy about it at all.

18:30.780 --> 18:32.740

Phil: It's a product of the United States.

18:32.760 --> 18:39.380

Phil: I was going to say the United States of the United States, but it's a product of the USA, United States of the USA.

18:40.500 --> 18:41.840

Tom: Do they not have sheep there?

18:45.000 --> 18:48.960

Phil: I'm sure there are some sheep, but I haven't seen any over there.

18:48.980 --> 18:50.680

Tom: There are at least a lot of sheeple, I've heard.

18:50.700 --> 18:52.600

Phil: Oh, sheeple, there you go.

18:52.920 --> 18:54.780

Phil: Yeah, so this is peanut butter whiskey.

18:54.880 --> 18:58.140

Phil: So the obvious question is, does it taste like peanut butter?

18:59.080 --> 19:01.960

Phil: And yeah, a little bit.

19:01.980 --> 19:06.880

Phil: It tastes more like Kahlua, like a Kahlua, Kahlua kind of thing, really.

19:07.820 --> 19:09.780

Tom: Is it better or worse than the last one?

19:10.440 --> 19:17.320

Phil: It's better than the first whiskey I drank, which was Ballentine's, which was terrible.

19:18.100 --> 19:20.040

Phil: But yeah, it's okay.

19:20.060 --> 19:20.720

Phil: It's obviously not a...

19:21.380 --> 19:23.040

Phil: You're not drinking it because it's a whiskey.

19:23.060 --> 19:26.360

Phil: It really does just taste like one of those liqueurs, so...

19:27.220 --> 19:28.960

Tom: And Ballentine is in Yakuza.

19:28.980 --> 19:29.920

Tom: I don't think this one is.

19:30.260 --> 19:31.520

Phil: No, no, this is a...

19:32.440 --> 19:43.580

Phil: Even though it's from a real company in the US, it's, you know, whiskey drinkers would be equally appalled that I'm drinking this as they were when I described Ballentine's as tasting like mothballs.

19:44.240 --> 19:50.380

Phil: So, yeah, this is probably not one I'm gonna go back to, but it was too novel not to try.

19:50.400 --> 19:53.280

Tom: So you're just gonna leave it on the shelf with Ballentine's?

19:53.380 --> 19:55.820

Phil: No, I'll drink it all probably during this episode, so...

19:57.640 --> 19:58.680

Tom: And how big is the bottle?

19:59.260 --> 20:04.120

Phil: Let's see, it's got 19 standard drinks in it.

20:04.640 --> 20:06.620

Phil: So that's 700 milliliters.

20:08.680 --> 20:10.660

Phil: It's 35% alcohol by volume.

20:11.480 --> 20:14.140

Phil: So maybe that's all at the bottom of the bottle.

20:14.720 --> 20:15.820

Phil: We'll find out today.

20:15.840 --> 20:17.240

Tom: So you need to shake it up first.

20:17.260 --> 20:17.840

Tom: Yeah, shake it up.

20:18.580 --> 20:21.620

Tom: Pro tip when drinking whiskey, shake the bottle first.

20:22.920 --> 20:23.360

Phil: Exactly.

20:25.520 --> 20:30.140

Phil: So now, I haven't gotten very far with Sky.

20:30.840 --> 20:33.080

Tom: Well, I have successfully added you as a friend.

20:33.160 --> 20:33.460

Phil: Right.

20:34.260 --> 20:38.120

Tom: But you, I don't think you've been back onto it since then.

20:38.300 --> 20:39.640

Phil: I've tried to...

20:39.660 --> 20:42.880

Tom: Is that a coincidence or a deliberate attempt to avoid you?

20:42.900 --> 20:44.560

Phil: No, no, I've tried two or three times.

20:44.800 --> 20:49.520

Phil: I've played it two or three more times and tried to friend you, but I haven't seen you in there.

20:49.580 --> 20:52.000

Phil: So you don't have to be online for me to friend you.

20:52.020 --> 20:53.820

Phil: I just got to look up at the sky, right?

20:54.880 --> 20:56.420

Tom: And is there no one there?

20:57.040 --> 21:09.320

Phil: There's a bunch of people named Phil Fogg because when I was first playing the game and going up to people, when it put up the option for a name, I thought it was asking me for, you know, what's my name?

21:09.420 --> 21:11.000

Phil: So I'd say Phil Fogg.

21:11.020 --> 21:14.980

Phil: So now I've named all the people that I've met Phil Fogg.

21:15.680 --> 21:21.320

Phil: Apparently they allow duplicate entries in their database because all my friends are called Phil Fogg.

21:22.840 --> 21:24.120

Phil: I may have called you Phil Fogg.

21:24.140 --> 21:25.780

Phil: Maybe that's why I can't find you either.

21:26.560 --> 21:27.980

Tom: That's what I'm thinking may have happened.

21:28.220 --> 21:29.080

Phil: No, no, no.

21:29.120 --> 21:30.920

Phil: I haven't named anyone yet.

21:31.060 --> 21:35.740

Tom: So I think the only solution to this is to be online at the same time.

21:35.880 --> 21:36.860

Phil: OK, yes.

21:37.060 --> 21:39.440

Phil: Possibly with you talking to me, telling me what to do.

21:40.700 --> 21:41.280

Tom: Correct.

21:42.280 --> 21:44.480

Phil: OK, so what's the next game you want to talk about?

21:45.620 --> 22:05.600

Tom: Well, while we're on the topic of racing games, and you did bring up Hot Shot Racing, I recently, and by recently I mean several months ago, if not last year, was playing Horizon Chase Turbo Top Gear on the SNES and Need for Speed Heat.

22:06.400 --> 22:08.540

Tom: And more recently I have tried Hot Shot Racing.

22:08.840 --> 22:19.020

Tom: Now all of those games, except for Need for Speed Heat, are either in the old classic style of arcade racing or are copying it, are they not?

22:19.480 --> 22:20.440

Phil: What was the first one?

22:21.320 --> 22:24.380

Tom: Horizon Chase Turbo was one, another is Hot Shot Racing.

22:25.060 --> 22:30.380

Tom: And one that is not on the surface of it in that style that I played was Need for Speed Heat.

22:31.360 --> 22:34.500

Phil: Yeah, I think I'd say that that's true.

22:34.560 --> 22:57.020

Phil: Like when I'm playing, when I played Hot Shot Racing, and we've got to say this is a game developed by Sumo Digital who, their claim to fame was, well, they started out by doing OutRun 2006, which was the first OutRun game in several decades, or a couple of decades.

22:57.560 --> 23:03.380

Phil: And they've done masterful games like Sonic and Sega All Star Racing and others as well.

23:04.980 --> 23:09.000

Phil: And then the other developer, just to give them credit on this game, was Lucky Mountain Games.

23:09.000 --> 23:16.340

Phil: But when I was first playing it, this struck a chord with me of the N64 racing games.

23:16.360 --> 23:19.420

Phil: The N64 had lots and lots of arcade races.

23:20.800 --> 23:29.560

Phil: Most notably, at least in terms of its popularity, was the Cruzen series, Cruzen the USA, Cruzen the World, Cruzen Exotica.

23:30.540 --> 23:35.400

Phil: Top Gear was also a popular arcade racer.

23:37.040 --> 23:39.200

Tom: Was there a Nintendo 64 version of that?

23:39.480 --> 23:41.660

Phil: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:42.540 --> 23:47.100

Phil: There was two Top Gear games released on the N64, which were quite good.

23:49.560 --> 23:52.520

Phil: And it also had some rally games as well.

23:54.120 --> 23:55.980

Phil: But in terms of arcade races...

23:56.400 --> 23:58.640

Tom: Top Gear Overdrive and Top Gear Rally.

23:58.660 --> 24:01.580

Phil: Yes, I played Top Gear Overdrive a fair bit.

24:02.460 --> 24:05.780

Tom: I have also played that a lot in A Myers.

24:07.480 --> 24:10.260

Tom: And also, I think, Top Gear Rally as well.

24:10.980 --> 24:18.680

Phil: You could unlock a drivable hot dog and a burro as well.

24:18.700 --> 24:23.460

Phil: A burro that had four wheels on its hooves.

24:25.100 --> 24:29.340

Phil: And they had customizable horn sounds as well for those novelty cars.

24:31.000 --> 24:31.720

Phil: You might recall...

24:31.740 --> 24:34.220

Tom: And your cars did explode if you crashed as well.

24:34.460 --> 24:36.400

Phil: Well, of course, what else is a car going to do?

24:37.760 --> 24:40.500

Phil: But when I was playing this...

24:40.820 --> 24:45.300

Tom: And I also think there was a Hummer, which was a viable vehicle in a race.

24:45.360 --> 24:49.580

Phil: Yeah, the Rush series was also very big on the N64.

24:52.080 --> 24:54.680

Phil: Adventure Beetle Racing was another one.

24:56.440 --> 25:05.000

Phil: So when I played this, the fact that it is bringing up so much nostalgia is because obviously they referenced a lot of these games.

25:05.160 --> 25:08.160

Phil: And for you, you have a different field of reference.

25:08.180 --> 25:12.960

Phil: For me, this most closely reminded me of the Cruzen series.

25:14.640 --> 25:16.940

Phil: But we should probably say just a little bit about it.

25:17.200 --> 25:18.940

Phil: It is like Art of Rally.

25:19.140 --> 25:20.940

Tom: Are you referring to Hot Shot Racing here?

25:21.060 --> 25:21.780

Phil: Yeah, I'm sorry.

25:21.800 --> 25:22.200

Phil: Did you want to...

25:22.280 --> 25:27.240

Tom: That is certainly closer to Cruzen rather than Top Gear.

25:27.380 --> 25:27.900

Tom: That is right.

25:27.920 --> 25:28.100

Phil: Yes.

25:28.320 --> 25:28.640

Phil: Yeah.

25:28.720 --> 25:34.460

Tom: But Horizon Chase Turbo is much more in line with Top Gear.

25:35.560 --> 25:36.000

Phil: Okay.

25:36.100 --> 25:36.480

Phil: Okay.

25:36.540 --> 25:37.040

Phil: I get you.

25:40.260 --> 25:56.880

Phil: So I've been attracted to Hot Shot Racing from the second it was announced, not only because it was from Sumo Digital, which has done uniformly great driving games, but also because, you know, there hasn't been a lot of purely arcade games, driving games around.

25:57.640 --> 26:02.940

Phil: And it's playing on nostalgia, but it's also giving you an outlet to play a type of game that doesn't really exist anymore.

26:04.360 --> 26:13.420

Phil: And to me, it reminded me of the Doom demakes, such as last year, my Game of the Year.

26:13.440 --> 26:14.120

Phil: What was it called?

26:15.100 --> 26:15.660

Tom: What was it?

26:15.680 --> 26:16.560

Phil: I played it on Switch.

26:16.700 --> 26:18.640

Phil: It was the Doom demake that you recommended.

26:19.980 --> 26:21.620

Tom: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

26:22.120 --> 26:22.940

Tom: Project Warlock.

26:22.960 --> 26:24.360

Phil: Project Warlock, exactly.

26:24.360 --> 26:28.160

Phil: So this to me is like a Project Warlock for arcade racers.

26:30.220 --> 26:41.720

Phil: And again, no texture, just like the Art of Rally, which has to contribute to its, you know, really great frame rate and speed.

26:43.580 --> 26:48.600

Phil: And obviously, drifting is a big part of it, which wasn't a part of the Cruis'n series.

26:49.520 --> 26:53.140

Tom: And it runs, however, on PC, not very well.

26:53.400 --> 26:53.900

Phil: Oh, really?

26:54.180 --> 26:54.660

Tom: Correct.

26:54.680 --> 27:09.520

Tom: There are, and this is a problem a lot of people have had, occasional inexplicable moments of slowdown, which are certainly not being caused due to the rendering power required.

27:10.340 --> 27:20.020

Phil: Another game that this reminded me of was a game that you probably never played called Speed Devils, which was a Ubisoft game released on the Dreamcast.

27:21.660 --> 27:24.180

Phil: It was outstanding as an arcade racer.

27:24.300 --> 27:30.020

Phil: And the thing that it most reminds me of in this game is the levels.

27:30.580 --> 27:33.860

Phil: The levels are all in these, you know, exotic locations.

27:34.560 --> 27:41.920

Phil: I've got to say Daytona USA on the Saturn is obviously another great reference for this game.

27:43.440 --> 27:46.080

Phil: But enough waxing nostalgic.

27:46.100 --> 27:46.780

Phil: Does it work?

27:46.800 --> 27:48.980

Phil: Does it work as a game?

27:50.580 --> 27:56.500

Phil: Since it came out, I think it's pretty transparent that they're trying to turn this into a service game.

27:57.000 --> 28:03.860

Phil: You know, a game that will never end in the same category as Rocket League.

28:03.860 --> 28:10.060

Phil: It's very clear that they're trying to make this into an online game that's going to have a following.

28:10.080 --> 28:13.440

Phil: And I've got to say, they've added additional modes since it first started.

28:14.240 --> 28:20.340

Phil: The one thing that they haven't appeared to add, and you've played more of this than me, is the car models.

28:20.680 --> 28:25.280

Phil: It appears to be the same original seven or eight characters.

28:25.960 --> 28:28.600

Phil: Have they added any additional cars since the beginning?

28:28.620 --> 28:33.360

Phil: Because I think you start out with an option of four different cars per personality.

28:34.460 --> 28:35.080

Tom: And I think there are...

28:35.200 --> 28:37.560

Tom: Is it four or are there more personalities?

28:37.620 --> 28:38.040

Tom: Well, you...

28:39.080 --> 28:40.900

Phil: More personalities is like eight of them.

28:41.120 --> 28:48.240

Tom: Yeah, so four times eight is a reasonable amount of cars for an arcade game, I would say.

28:48.260 --> 28:52.340

Tom: And it is in fact possible that you have played it more than I have.

28:53.500 --> 29:02.540

Tom: And just for the record, while I have not played Speed Devils, I have played the original Speed Busters that Speed Devils was a port of.

29:04.480 --> 29:04.780

Tom: Yes.

29:04.900 --> 29:06.660

Phil: So did you like that or?

29:08.540 --> 29:14.020

Tom: It was, I have only played it very briefly because when I bought it, it would not run on my PC.

29:14.600 --> 29:33.900

Tom: But I've played it via GOG and still it is, as you described with the locations in the Dreamcast version, I believe they're pretty much the same, very visually appealing in terms of the tracks and cars and the general visual style.

29:33.920 --> 29:45.120

Phil: Yeah, there was a, it was on the Dreamcast and it was one of the games, one of the first games that had multiple different ways to get through the courses.

29:45.780 --> 29:49.000

Phil: There was lots of shortcuts and they were all thematic.

29:49.180 --> 29:59.320

Phil: So, you know, if you're in, they had one that was set in LA that basically drove you through all the major, you know, landmarks of Los Angeles.

29:59.500 --> 30:01.940

Phil: They had one in Mexico that was really great.

30:02.180 --> 30:08.200

Phil: The Mexico one was on a dirt track, I remember, and had completely different physics.

30:08.220 --> 30:13.440

Phil: And, you know, a lot of the great things about these old arcade races was the music and the voice samples.

30:14.000 --> 30:17.620

Phil: And that's something that's been brought over to Hot Shot Racing as well.

30:17.640 --> 30:22.160

Phil: These ridiculous voice samples that come up throughout the game.

30:22.180 --> 30:39.500

Phil: I remember that in Cruisin the World in the Australia level, when kangaroos were running onto the track or jumping around and going on the track, they actually had the sound effect of boing.

30:40.040 --> 30:49.500

Phil: So as the kangaroos moved, they'd go boing, boing, boing, which is something that I still do whenever I see a kangaroo.

30:50.440 --> 30:57.420

Phil: So I'm obviously still not a real Australian, and that's something I've been able to pass on to family members as well, that picked up that thing.

30:58.780 --> 31:09.140

Tom: And for once, the addition of Australian native animals to an Australian setting is accurate, as kangaroos are a regular feature at Bathurst.

31:10.320 --> 31:10.700

Phil: Are they?

31:10.920 --> 31:11.640

Phil: I did not know that.

31:13.880 --> 31:17.740

Phil: This game, like tell me, are all the upgrades cosmetic?

31:19.200 --> 31:20.240

Tom: Well, here's the thing.

31:21.480 --> 31:23.180

Tom: I've played very little of this game.

31:23.200 --> 31:27.000

Tom: This was in fact a comparative analysis between these several games.

31:27.020 --> 31:31.000

Tom: It was the direction this was going in, but we're taking it in another direction again.

31:31.020 --> 31:33.060

Tom: No, we will end up...

31:33.300 --> 31:36.900

Tom: We're taking another brief moment just to appreciate Speedbusters here.

31:38.760 --> 31:40.240

Tom: Slash Speed Devils.

31:40.260 --> 31:51.420

Tom: And I don't know if this was also in Speed Devils, but Speedbusters has one of the greatest live action video game intros of all time.

31:51.440 --> 32:01.920

Tom: Anyone who has not seen that, just look up Speedbusters intro on YouTube and prepare yourself for an entertaining ride.

32:02.140 --> 32:09.840

Phil: I tell you what, I'll just make a note to embed that into our front page for this show.

32:09.860 --> 32:15.560

Tom: Unfortunately, it looks like Speed Devils does not have the same framing or intro.

32:16.260 --> 32:19.200

Phil: No, there's no intro like that, just great music.

32:20.660 --> 32:41.320

Phil: So, you know, I feel terrible because we've spent most of this time just talking about the great games that this game references, but like the big selling point for this game is nostalgia and tapping into what people liked about those old games and basically bring them into the new generation.

32:42.500 --> 32:44.780

Phil: And I think on that level, it completely succeeds.

32:44.800 --> 32:46.140

Phil: I find myself...

32:46.160 --> 32:53.200

Tom: And you missed one clear reference, which is in the visual aesthetic, and that is to Interstate 76.

32:53.220 --> 32:54.180

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah.

32:55.160 --> 32:55.740

Phil: Again, we...

32:56.260 --> 32:59.920

Tom: Not just in the visual aesthetic, but also the character design as well.

33:00.600 --> 33:01.340

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

33:01.360 --> 33:03.060

Phil: And I'd say if you were looking at...

33:03.560 --> 33:06.960

Phil: Like, if you wanted to look at it, if you were to say, okay, what's this game look like?

33:07.300 --> 33:09.760

Phil: I think Daytona USA would be the first reference.

33:09.780 --> 33:15.700

Phil: It just looks like those Saturn games from Sega, like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop.

33:16.840 --> 33:21.780

Phil: Obviously, it's much higher fidelity and detail than those, but that's what they evoke.

33:22.520 --> 33:27.100

Tom: I wouldn't say it's higher fidelity than Daytona USA.

33:27.580 --> 33:29.400

Phil: This is, absolutely, yeah.

33:29.700 --> 33:30.540

Tom: I would not say that.

33:30.540 --> 33:31.960

Tom: It's certainly higher detail.

33:32.080 --> 33:32.500

Phil: Okay.

33:34.100 --> 33:36.080

Phil: I'd have to probably do a side by side.

33:37.340 --> 33:40.320

Tom: And arguably, it is not higher detail.

33:40.340 --> 33:45.220

Tom: It depends, certainly not compared to the actual arcade version of Daytona USA.

33:45.900 --> 33:49.280

Phil: Yeah, well, I only ever played the Saturn version, so...

33:49.720 --> 33:50.100

Tom: Okay.

33:50.200 --> 33:51.160

Phil: Yeah, you've got me on that one.

33:53.480 --> 33:55.720

Phil: I think it's a positive game, though.

33:55.740 --> 33:57.640

Phil: I think that I enjoy it.

33:57.660 --> 34:03.060

Phil: It's one of those games where if I'm on Steam and I see it sitting there, I will invariably play it.

34:04.240 --> 34:06.660

Phil: It is an easy game to get in and out of.

34:07.880 --> 34:18.260

Phil: And I think it succeeds, mostly because of its intelligent, you know, taking from other games of the genre and also just tapping into the experience that...

34:20.660 --> 34:25.420

Phil: the experience of the developers in this category.

34:25.480 --> 34:32.820

Phil: I mean, Sumo Digital has never made a bad racing game and certainly they've continued that with this one.

34:33.440 --> 34:34.320

Phil: Did you want to get back to...

34:34.340 --> 34:34.800

Tom: I would agree.

34:34.820 --> 34:37.280

Phil: Did you want to get back to your comparative analysis on this or...

34:37.300 --> 34:37.640

Tom: Yes.

34:38.000 --> 34:38.640

Tom: Yes, I do.

34:39.440 --> 34:49.380

Tom: So you said that it is a racing game in the style of racing games that do not really exist anymore, like, for instance, Project Warlock is to first-person shooters.

34:51.420 --> 34:54.440

Tom: And here is where actually I would disagree entirely.

34:54.940 --> 35:11.440

Tom: This was the interesting thing I noticed playing these games deliberately made in the style of a classic racing game, not too far apart from playing Need for Speed Heat, which is the latest Need for Speed.

35:11.980 --> 35:25.660

Tom: And Need for Speed Heat, in terms of the driving model, is actually very close to the likes of Horizon Chase Turbo and Hot Shot Racing.

35:26.060 --> 35:55.840

Tom: It is, I wouldn't even say more detailed than either of those, but essentially the way the racing works, even if you are not playing as a drift car, drift driving style, sorry, unlike in a slightly more simcade style of racing where there is some semblance of momentum and having to slow down a moving object before turning and that sort of thing.

35:56.620 --> 36:23.420

Tom: Here it is much more in the vein of Mario Kart, for instance, where it is not so much about accelerating a physical object, then slowing it down to be able to turn, then accelerating again, but moving through an environment where to turn, you get friction not through slowing down, but by grabbing hold of the ground and turning that way.

36:23.440 --> 36:44.360

Tom: So as you are going along, it is all about timing where you brake in the corner based on how sharp you want to turn, as opposed to how straight you want to keep your car going without losing as little speed as possible.

36:44.860 --> 36:52.480

Tom: So it's essentially the reverse way in which one approaches a more realistic racing game.

36:53.000 --> 37:18.060

Tom: And it is, other than visually, and the fact that the track is wider than Horizon Chase Turbo on top gear, and that it is a little bit slower than Hot Shot Racing and the difference between the speed of acceleration and slowing down is not as extreme as in Hot Shot Racing as well.

37:18.460 --> 37:23.820

Tom: It fits perfectly into the same category as those games.

37:23.920 --> 37:40.000

Tom: And I would argue, I think, captures better the feeling of a Nintendo 64 racing game in the vein of Cruis'n USA or even the SNES Top Gear.

37:40.360 --> 37:48.280

Tom: And the only other difference is that there is not the checkpoints with a timer counting down.

37:49.220 --> 37:58.300

Tom: However, depending on what the AI level is, there's nevertheless the same degree of pressure to be always having to be consistently fast.

38:00.500 --> 38:13.240

Tom: So I thought it was interesting that there is simultaneously this market for nostalgia, which presents itself as giving you an experience that you cannot get in modern racing games.

38:13.620 --> 38:24.140

Tom: But in modern racing games, for instance Need for Speed Heat, actually the gameplay has changed very, very little since the SNES.

38:25.820 --> 38:34.500

Phil: I've got to say, I've been like, I think a lot of people have probably not touched the Need for Speed series for a while.

38:34.760 --> 38:38.680

Phil: I have my favorite entries in it, which I'll talk about in just a moment.

38:39.380 --> 38:45.320

Phil: But I'm watching video of this, and pardon my French, but this looks fucking awesome.

38:45.540 --> 38:46.420

Phil: This looks great.

38:46.780 --> 38:49.020

Phil: So this is the 2019 Need for Speed.

38:49.040 --> 38:50.500

Phil: Yes.

38:51.220 --> 38:51.760

Phil: It looks great.

38:52.600 --> 38:53.600

Phil: This looks really good.

38:54.760 --> 38:59.980

Tom: It was surprising to me at how enjoyable it was because it is so arcade-y.

39:00.560 --> 39:19.040

Tom: And again, it's like a throwback to even older racing games because arcade racing games have changed over the years, but they've changed in the sense that new versions of them have appeared rather than old ones disappearing.

39:19.240 --> 39:40.900

Tom: That would be how I would read the arcade game market over the years, as opposed to something like first-person shooters where old styles of gameplay did indeed disappear and were completely replaced rather than different styles complementing old-school style first-person shooters.

39:41.300 --> 39:43.440

Tom: But so it is a throwback.

39:44.460 --> 40:02.480

Tom: The problem with Need for Speed is it markets itself as a throwback to Need for Speed, like Hot Pursuit or Need for Speed Underground and those sorts of ones, which are of the generation of racing games after Cruising USA.

40:03.140 --> 40:18.120

Tom: And that era, while there were still games in the very old style, had more elements of momentum in them and usually, I would say, less arcadey feeling tracks.

40:19.280 --> 40:28.520

Tom: Whereas this is not at all like Underground or like those Need for Speeds or Burnout, that sort of era.

40:28.900 --> 40:33.020

Tom: So I think that's where the problem for Need for Speed is.

40:33.360 --> 40:44.320

Tom: I also don't think you could really market Need for Speed as being a racing game in the style of games as old as Top Gear or Cruisin.

40:44.860 --> 40:59.040

Tom: Because the Need for Speed people think of came after that and was actually innovating on those games and building new forms of arcade racing.

40:59.460 --> 41:00.700

Phil: I got a couple of funny things here.

41:00.720 --> 41:06.820

Phil: But first of all, we're talking about Need for Speed Heat, which was released on Windows, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

41:07.120 --> 41:14.880

Phil: When you go to the wiki page for it, the plot section says, This article's plot summary may be too long or excessively detailed.

41:14.900 --> 41:19.420

Phil: Please help improve it by removing unnecessary details and making it more concise.

41:20.620 --> 41:24.780

Phil: Which sounds like my review of Driver San Francisco.

41:26.640 --> 41:27.600

Phil: Which was amazing.

41:27.620 --> 41:29.640

Phil: The story and that was one of the best parts about it.

41:30.700 --> 41:33.440

Tom: It also sounds like the actual plot in the game as well.

41:35.520 --> 41:36.160

Phil: That's great.

41:36.260 --> 41:38.540

Phil: Actually, you know, that'd be great for a review, wouldn't it?

41:38.560 --> 41:43.360

Phil: Now, in terms of how it was reviewed, IGN gave it the highest score of eight.

41:43.380 --> 41:44.640

Phil: Everyone else gave it a seven.

41:45.520 --> 41:46.300

Phil: Seven and a half.

41:46.320 --> 41:48.600

Phil: And that's where it is on Metacritic as well.

41:50.140 --> 41:57.240

Phil: Another interesting note about it, as I was reading here, is that it was the last Need for Speed game made by Ghost Games.

41:57.780 --> 42:04.260

Phil: And they'd been, yeah, they'd been closely tied to the franchise for some time.

42:06.560 --> 42:15.140

Phil: And they've given Need for Speed back to Criterion, which was, you know, there's no one obviously still at Criterion that made Burnout, but I'm sure there's someone is.

42:16.180 --> 42:28.500

Phil: But they made two of my favorite Need for Speeds recently, which was Need for Speed Hot Pursuit 2010, which was outstanding, and Need for Speed Most Wanted in 2012.

42:28.880 --> 42:30.380

Phil: Those were, you know, my favorites.

42:33.480 --> 42:36.080

Phil: And the closest to the original Burnout games.

42:36.500 --> 42:38.080

Phil: I thought they were absolutely great.

42:39.020 --> 42:42.200

Phil: So not only did they kick Ghost Games off of the franchise.

42:43.000 --> 43:10.380

Tom: That just reminds me though, one last interesting thing on the evolution of racing games is the Burnout era of arcade racing followed on from Wipeout, where it became about maintaining as much momentum and speed as he could rather than any sort of slowing down for corners to be able to turn at a certain degree.

43:10.400 --> 43:14.540

Phil: You're talking about Wipeout, the video game, not the TV game show.

43:14.920 --> 43:15.520

Tom: Correct.

43:15.540 --> 43:22.200

Phil: Because it also applies to that, which is keeping your momentum, not slowing down, is the key, especially on the punching wall.

43:22.600 --> 43:23.340

Phil: You know the wall...

43:23.360 --> 43:24.460

Tom: You know from experience.

43:24.480 --> 43:25.140

Phil: Well, you know the wall.

43:25.160 --> 43:26.860

Phil: It's got the punching things that come out of it.

43:26.960 --> 43:27.400

Tom: Yes.

43:27.420 --> 43:28.200

Phil: They fall into the mud.

43:28.220 --> 43:29.800

Phil: The key there is either to take...

43:30.000 --> 43:31.000

Phil: Just take a...

43:31.400 --> 43:34.840

Phil: I don't know why people don't go straight into the mud and just run across the mud.

43:35.180 --> 43:42.500

Phil: But if you are going to take the high road and keep out of the mud, so to speak, basically go as fast as you can and keep your momentum.

43:42.560 --> 43:44.860

Phil: And that's true on the big balls as well.

43:46.080 --> 43:47.460

Phil: You know, you've just got to keep going.

43:49.400 --> 44:00.080

Phil: But back to my point, not only did they take them off the franchise, they reduced Ghost Games to an engineering studio for the Frostbite engine.

44:00.100 --> 44:03.340

Phil: I mean, if that's not enough, they took their name off them.

44:05.000 --> 44:09.980

Phil: They took Ghost Games' name off them and called them back to their original name EA Gothenburg.

44:11.740 --> 44:13.360

Phil: That's not nice.

44:13.960 --> 44:15.260

Phil: That's not a very nice thing to do.

44:15.280 --> 44:18.160

Tom: Well, it is EA, so...

44:18.180 --> 44:18.980

Phil: Well, it is EA.

44:19.660 --> 44:21.100

Tom: They may have got off lucky there.

44:22.160 --> 44:26.960

Phil: I've talked to you and our listeners before about Jason Schreier's book.

44:27.260 --> 44:30.200

Phil: I think it's called Sweat, Blood and Pixels, which is a really...

44:30.220 --> 44:33.080

Tom: I thought it was called Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.

44:33.120 --> 44:36.020

Phil: Stay Out of the Mud and Take the High Road.

44:36.040 --> 44:37.560

Phil: Sweat, Blood and Pixels.

44:37.580 --> 44:41.760

Phil: I just finished reading the sequel to that, which I thoroughly recommend.

44:42.660 --> 44:47.080

Phil: If you listen to this podcast, you're probably going to be interested enough to read that book as well.

44:47.800 --> 44:56.240

Phil: It also talks about the foibles of game development, but most notably the downfalls of it as well.

44:56.340 --> 44:58.320

Phil: It's still an interesting read.

44:59.000 --> 45:04.320

Phil: What I particularly did not enjoy about it is that the last chapter turns into a complete editorial.

45:04.700 --> 45:12.920

Phil: So it goes from basically straight reportage to the last chapter switching to it.

45:13.120 --> 45:17.720

Phil: Here's how we should fix the whole video game industry.

45:17.980 --> 45:19.160

Phil: We need to unionize.

45:19.580 --> 45:20.540

Phil: We need to do this.

45:20.560 --> 45:21.280

Phil: We need to do that.

45:21.500 --> 45:23.040

Phil: It's like, what are you doing?

45:23.540 --> 45:24.400

Phil: What are you doing?

45:24.800 --> 45:26.540

Phil: I mean, you're a writer.

45:27.480 --> 45:29.060

Phil: That can't work, right?

45:29.520 --> 45:41.000

Phil: Or could this conglomeration actually be a good form of writing, where you go straight from direct reportage into editorial?

45:41.440 --> 45:41.940

Phil: I don't know.

45:42.260 --> 45:44.160

Phil: I did not appreciate it at all.

45:44.420 --> 45:45.440

Phil: I thought it was weird.

45:45.740 --> 45:48.600

Tom: It certainly could be if you're not Jason Schreier.

45:48.920 --> 45:49.280

Phil: Yeah.

45:49.680 --> 45:50.080

Phil: I think...

45:50.100 --> 45:52.840

Tom: I think that is the main issue there.

45:52.920 --> 45:54.480

Phil: If you had it as a...

45:55.300 --> 45:59.640

Tom: And I cannot imagine reading a Jason Schreier book, I have to say.

45:59.940 --> 46:02.880

Phil: It's got a lot of juicy details in it.

46:02.900 --> 46:03.740

Phil: That's why I read it.

46:04.640 --> 46:09.360

Tom: Well, I'm sure it has a lot of details in it, but the question is how many of them are juicy.

46:11.220 --> 46:12.680

Phil: What's the opposite of an epilogue?

46:13.220 --> 46:13.780

Phil: Prologue.

46:15.580 --> 46:15.920

Tom: Yes.

46:16.200 --> 46:18.880

Tom: I'm not sure we would call it the opposite of one.

46:20.340 --> 46:22.480

Phil: It is the opposite.

46:23.220 --> 46:24.180

Phil: I think if it...

46:24.760 --> 46:27.980

Tom: Or would the opposite of an epilogue be having nothing at the end?

46:29.280 --> 46:30.760

Tom: That's what you have to wonder, you see.

46:30.780 --> 46:36.740

Phil: I think if he had just included it as that, like, OK, the book's over, now here's what I've got to say.

46:38.080 --> 46:39.680

Phil: I would have appreciated that a lot more.

46:41.680 --> 46:45.440

Tom: I'm just saying that's exactly what I would have expected from Jason Schreier.

46:46.360 --> 46:48.480

Tom: Not the content of it, just the...

46:50.640 --> 46:51.900

Tom: Again, this could...

46:52.020 --> 47:02.840

Tom: This can work if the person is a good writer, but random obnoxious structure is basically Jason Schreier's entire schtick.

47:03.820 --> 47:04.920

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

47:04.980 --> 47:12.560

Tom: I give him full credit for his content, but the way he presents it is just totally unreadable.

47:14.300 --> 47:19.260

Phil: I think, too, at this point, he's become bigger...

47:19.280 --> 47:20.600

Phil: He is Jason Schreier.

47:20.740 --> 47:31.040

Phil: So if you've got dirt on a developer, or you want to get a message out, he's the one that you go to, so it's kind of become a self-perpetuating...

47:32.240 --> 47:35.960

Tom: I just have to ask you, though, because you have mentioned...

47:35.980 --> 47:53.260

Tom: I don't know if it's on the podcast, I don't know if this has been brought up on the podcast, but you have told me numerous times in the past, so I assume that this has some sort of significance, if anyone is familiar with American culture, but you have told me that you have read The Atlantic on various occasions.

47:54.180 --> 47:56.600

Tom: Yes, as opposed to The New York Times.

48:00.240 --> 48:05.740

Phil: The Atlantic is now owned by Steve Jobs' wife.

48:05.760 --> 48:15.260

Phil: I can't vouch for it, because I used to be a subscriber and get the monthly magazine.

48:15.700 --> 48:16.660

Phil: It was wonderful.

48:17.940 --> 48:25.420

Phil: It had a good investigative journalist type thing, but also had some good fiction and short stories in it as well.

48:27.420 --> 48:31.320

Phil: I thought it was a good place to promote writing.

48:32.640 --> 48:33.940

Phil: I can't speak to it now.

48:34.200 --> 48:35.120

Phil: The New Yorker...

48:36.540 --> 48:38.580

Phil: I never really got what the New Yorker was.

48:40.520 --> 48:43.220

Phil: I don't think I could draw a comparison between the two.

48:44.040 --> 48:47.140

Tom: I think it's meant to be the same thing, just for different sensibilities.

48:47.580 --> 48:48.400

Phil: Yeah, maybe.

48:48.500 --> 48:48.960

Phil: I don't know.

48:49.180 --> 48:50.060

Phil: Anyway, wait.

48:50.100 --> 48:50.700

Phil: What's your point?

48:51.700 --> 49:05.520

Tom: My point is here, that Jason Schreier's writing is pure Atlantic essay style, including their investigative journalism.

49:05.860 --> 49:25.240

Tom: And it's actually a pretty common thing in American journalism that I've read anyway, where you will have a long, bloated investigation being reported that ends with an editorial telling you how to fix all of these problems that you discovered.

49:25.260 --> 49:27.220

Phil: Yeah, like Upton Sinclair, for example.

49:27.360 --> 49:31.260

Phil: So maybe it's the rich history of North East journalism.

49:31.260 --> 49:40.840

Tom: But see, the problem is simply Jason Schreier, is what I'm trying to get at here, is that it is obnoxious and jarring due to his writing ability.

49:41.120 --> 49:42.440

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

49:42.500 --> 49:42.820

Tom: Yes.

49:42.960 --> 49:46.760

Phil: But I think that the issue he has is he's a one trick pony.

49:48.500 --> 49:50.160

Phil: It's with one note at this point.

49:51.540 --> 50:10.940

Phil: And with The Atlantic, certainly it got to that way at times, where it was just basically like the ACLU, which I'm a big supporter of the ACLU, which American Civil Liberties Union, basically they fight for crazies on both extremes.

50:10.960 --> 50:12.140

Tom: Have they unionized?

50:13.900 --> 50:14.740

Phil: I don't think so.

50:15.260 --> 50:16.300

Tom: They are called a union.

50:17.300 --> 50:20.980

Phil: The name of the book is Press Reset, I should say.

50:21.800 --> 50:29.940

Phil: And I think that if you want to get some juicy, you know, insights into some major games and their development.

50:29.960 --> 50:41.660

Tom: I also believe that that was what PewDiePie was going to donate to after one of his anti-Semitic comments, until someone pointed out that they defend people against anti-Semitism, I think.

50:41.680 --> 50:43.020

Phil: Oh, and then he didn't?

50:43.920 --> 50:44.460

Tom: That's right.

50:44.480 --> 50:47.880

Phil: Okay, American Civil Liberties Union, aclu.org.

50:47.900 --> 50:48.460

Phil: Check them out.

50:48.480 --> 50:49.460

Phil: Make your own decision.

50:50.560 --> 50:53.340

Phil: Now, I don't know how we got on to Jason Schreier.

50:53.740 --> 50:54.720

Tom: Do your own research.

50:54.920 --> 50:57.380

Phil: Do your own research.

50:57.800 --> 50:59.000

Phil: I don't know how we got on to that.

50:59.020 --> 51:10.580

Phil: We were talking about Need for Speed Heat and also then talking about how my favorite Need for Speeds had been made by the criterion named Studio, Hot Pursuit and Most Wanted.

51:11.360 --> 51:15.600

Phil: But if you could please continue with your comparative analysis and how this all applied.

51:15.620 --> 51:48.340

Tom: I think that was probably the end of the comparative analysis, just simply that it was interesting that as part of the whole nostalgia craze that has been going on over the past 10 years to 20 years, it has now reached the genre of racing games where arcade racing games in a variety of old styles still exist and are made as entirely new games with modern aesthetics and sensibilities.

51:49.140 --> 52:11.220

Tom: And so it's understandable that they exist, that Hot Shot Racing exists, and that Horizon Chase Turbo exists as an aesthetic throwback, but as a gameplay throwback in terms of the actual gameplay, I think they are merely a competitor for the likes of Need for Speed Heat rather than games doing something different.

52:11.240 --> 52:13.140

Phil: Okay, fair enough.

52:13.920 --> 52:25.900

Tom: And of them all, I would argue that Need for Speed Heat captures the feeling and excitement of Top Gear or Cruisin better than the throwback games do.

52:25.920 --> 52:35.440

Phil: I've got to say on those throwback games, I recently put in Top Gear and also the Cruisin series for reasons I don't understand.

52:36.180 --> 52:40.180

Phil: They do actually hold up and that's probably no surprise to you, I don't know.

52:41.320 --> 52:42.240

Tom: Well, not at all.

52:42.260 --> 52:52.600

Tom: At least in terms of Top Gear, as I said, I was actually playing that on the SNES around the same time and it was still very enjoyable today.

52:52.620 --> 52:59.260

Tom: And it probably should not be too much of a surprise given the simplicity of the gameplay.

53:00.520 --> 53:06.820

Phil: I think before we get to The Last Stop, which is a game that you've been playing...

53:07.780 --> 53:20.840

Tom: It is, and before we do any of that, and then we are going to go directly into The Last Stop, I'll have to interrupt you there for our much delayed ASMR food test.

53:20.940 --> 53:21.440

Phil: Oh God.

53:21.820 --> 53:26.200

Tom: And this time you will be pleased to know that it is in fact a vegan dish.

53:26.560 --> 53:26.920

Phil: Good.

53:28.200 --> 53:34.580

Tom: It is a vegan fish, fried fish, from a shop called Hunky Dory.

53:35.600 --> 53:40.320

Tom: And I've never tried vegan fish before.

53:40.580 --> 53:50.820

Tom: I've tried vegan beef based, not based, beef inspired products, chicken inspired products and pork inspired products, but not fish.

53:50.840 --> 53:52.500

Tom: What is your experience with vegan fish?

53:52.560 --> 53:57.460

Phil: And when you talk about vegan fish, you're not talking about fish that don't eat animal products.

53:58.680 --> 53:58.940

Tom: No.

53:58.960 --> 54:00.420

Phil: Okay, you're talking...

54:00.500 --> 54:01.260

Tom: I'm speaking of a...

54:01.280 --> 54:01.840

Tom: A simulator.

54:02.640 --> 54:03.100

Tom: That's right.

54:03.880 --> 54:10.920

Phil: My experience with vegan fish would be limited to the candy Swedish fish, which is a vegan gummy.

54:12.260 --> 54:18.500

Phil: It's a pretty poor substitute for a gummy, but it is still vegan, which basically describes all of your choices as a vegan.

54:19.660 --> 54:23.100

Phil: Which is it's not as good as the real thing, but hey, it's vegan.

54:23.440 --> 54:31.400

Tom: I think with Swedish fish, though, that offers an interesting alternative, because this probably goes with most vegan food, actually.

54:31.480 --> 54:45.820

Tom: It is very much its own thing that is not like a standard gummy, where it is very hard and chewy, and you don't really get any sort of flavour until it has been well mashed up by your teeth.

54:46.120 --> 54:49.120

Phil: Oh, I wouldn't be that harsh on the old Swedish fish.

54:49.960 --> 55:07.040

Tom: No, but that's a good thing that is in contrast to a standard gummy, because you then get this sudden burst of flavour out of nowhere that you can then enjoy during the rest of the mouthful, rather than a gradual, consistent release that you get in a standard gummy.

55:07.060 --> 55:10.120

Phil: I've got to say, too, that I'm not an ethical vegan.

55:10.340 --> 55:12.160

Phil: I am a dietary vegan.

55:12.280 --> 55:14.560

Tom: You're a very unethical vegan.

55:14.580 --> 55:24.180

Phil: Yeah, so apparently being an ethical vegan is one of the ways you get out of getting the vaccine because it was tested on animals.

55:24.460 --> 55:26.620

Phil: So I did not know that.

55:28.020 --> 55:30.000

Phil: But I am not an ethical vegan.

55:30.080 --> 55:34.860

Phil: I don't eat meat and animal products based on ethics alone.

55:35.740 --> 55:38.380

Phil: It's mostly because I don't like meat.

55:38.420 --> 55:39.520

Phil: I don't like eating meat.

55:39.540 --> 55:41.980

Phil: I've never really appreciated the flavors.

55:42.000 --> 55:43.020

Phil: I don't like the texture.

55:43.900 --> 55:46.480

Phil: And then the concepts usually gross me out as well.

55:46.480 --> 55:48.420

Phil: Just knowing where that stuff comes from.

55:48.820 --> 55:53.760

Phil: I'm like, I don't want to eat it, you know, like eggs and milk and things like that.

55:54.000 --> 55:59.340

Phil: I just think it's conceptually, I guess I'm a conceptual vegan.

56:00.180 --> 56:06.620

Phil: Because I just don't, I don't want to drink milk that's coming out of another thing, you know, or anything.

56:06.820 --> 56:08.280

Tom: What do you want your milk to come out of?

56:08.300 --> 56:09.960

Phil: I don't want my milk to come out of anything.

56:09.960 --> 56:10.840

Phil: I don't want to drink it.

56:10.860 --> 56:14.800

Phil: I want my milk to come out of a soybean or an almond is where I want my milk.

56:15.620 --> 56:17.160

Tom: Well, that is coming out of something.

56:17.180 --> 56:23.680

Phil: Yeah, I've heard that described as nutsap, almond milk.

56:24.640 --> 56:27.020

Phil: So, but no, I don't like that.

56:27.040 --> 56:31.980

Phil: So, for me, like I have never liked fish, ever.

56:32.120 --> 56:37.720

Phil: As a child, I never liked fish, I never liked crab, I never liked prawns, I don't like any of it.

56:38.760 --> 56:45.080

Tom: You can really tell with the disdain in his voice there just how much he hates animals, confirming he is not an ethical vegan.

56:45.100 --> 56:45.800

Phil: An ethical vegan.

56:48.080 --> 56:51.440

Phil: I'm a vegan of convenience, you could say.

56:51.440 --> 56:52.260

Phil: But no, I...

56:52.520 --> 56:54.100

Tom: I think I prefer conceptual vegan.

56:54.240 --> 57:04.340

Phil: If someone were to make me a McFish, like a fillet of fish, which is apparently popular for old people at McDonald's, I wouldn't want it.

57:04.400 --> 57:05.220

Phil: I just wouldn't want it.

57:05.240 --> 57:06.360

Phil: I would have no interest in it.

57:06.940 --> 57:12.040

Phil: I would be more likely if someone came up to me and said, here's some crocodile meat.

57:12.340 --> 57:13.440

Phil: Would you like to try it?

57:14.580 --> 57:16.560

Phil: Even though I'm a vegan, I'd probably go, you know what?

57:16.640 --> 57:17.660

Phil: Yeah, I'll give it a try.

57:17.680 --> 57:19.060

Phil: I've never had crocodile meat.

57:19.220 --> 57:20.240

Phil: It could be a good story.

57:20.380 --> 57:28.980

Phil: I will try a small amount of crocodile meat just so I know what it tastes like if it comes up that I have to eat it out of necessity.

57:30.260 --> 57:36.500

Phil: But if someone came up to me and said, here's a fake fillet of fish, yeah, I would not eat it.

57:37.160 --> 57:38.480

Phil: I just would not eat it because I don't like fish.

57:39.160 --> 57:44.840

Phil: Now, I know that you like fish because you're eating flake or booty, flake booty.

57:45.680 --> 57:46.260

Tom: That's right.

57:47.320 --> 57:48.300

Phil: As it's called in India.

57:50.160 --> 57:51.160

Tom: But England.

57:51.700 --> 57:52.800

Phil: England, okay.

57:53.020 --> 57:53.400

Tom: Yes.

57:53.660 --> 57:57.580

Phil: Okay, so yeah, so does that answer your question about fish?

57:58.560 --> 58:02.980

Tom: Well, I will add that you are a pro-meat vegan.

58:03.700 --> 58:06.240

Tom: I am a pro-vegan meat eater.

58:06.260 --> 58:10.820

Tom: So I will say that vegans are ethically superior to non-vegans.

58:11.520 --> 58:12.420

Tom: But I eat meat.

58:13.380 --> 58:18.720

Tom: While you will say vegans are not ethically superior to vegans, but you do not eat meat.

58:18.740 --> 58:19.460

Phil: I think that...

58:19.480 --> 58:20.380

Tom: So together...

58:20.580 --> 58:21.340

Phil: We balance out.

58:22.100 --> 58:22.840

Tom: We balance out.

58:22.860 --> 58:26.920

Phil: Yeah, we're the yin and yang of vegan.

58:26.940 --> 58:28.680

Tom: Of failed ideals.

58:28.700 --> 58:28.960

Phil: Yes.

58:30.180 --> 58:34.060

Phil: But I would say that are vegans ethically superior to non-vegans?

58:35.460 --> 58:36.920

Phil: Ah, yes, I would say that they are.

58:39.380 --> 58:47.120

Tom: It depends though on what your belief on the agency and feelings of plants are.

58:49.340 --> 58:50.660

Phil: That's a topic for another day, Tom.

58:50.860 --> 58:53.360

Phil: So, okay, so you ate this fake fillet of fish.

58:53.960 --> 58:55.920

Tom: Well, I'm about to do it now live on air.

58:55.940 --> 58:56.240

Phil: Oh, okay.

58:56.960 --> 58:58.900

Phil: He's fishing for compliments, people.

59:00.140 --> 59:01.600

Phil: So, what would you call fake fish?

59:04.020 --> 59:08.000

Phil: I don't know if he's actually eating it now or if he's taking a break.

59:08.000 --> 59:10.080

Tom: I just took the first bite.

59:12.520 --> 59:14.560

Tom: Let's say it doesn't really taste anything like fish.

59:16.960 --> 59:22.660

Tom: The patty part of it has a texture that is perhaps somewhere between a white fish and chicken.

59:23.860 --> 59:31.920

Tom: The flavour is, I think, more in line with, say, a frozen chicken nugget than anything to do with fish.

59:32.860 --> 59:43.240

Tom: The very edge of the patty and the batter, I think, has the texture and a little bit of the taste of a frozen fish finger that has been toasted, though.

59:44.020 --> 59:45.180

Tom: So that is slightly fishy.

59:45.740 --> 59:48.480

Tom: I'm now going to add a lemon juice to it and try again.

59:48.500 --> 59:52.740

Phil: Did the lemon come from, um, what's the name of it, Hey, Djibouti?

59:52.760 --> 59:53.660

Phil: What's the place called?

59:54.060 --> 59:54.960

Tom: Honky Dory.

59:55.240 --> 59:56.960

Phil: Did the lemon come from Honky Dory?

59:57.080 --> 59:57.640

Tom: Yes, it did.

59:57.660 --> 59:58.040

Phil: That's nice.

59:58.060 --> 01:00.760

Phil: That's very nice.

01:02.760 --> 01:04.320

Phil: Did they give you a vinegar option?

01:05.360 --> 01:05.980

Tom: No, they did not.

01:06.000 --> 01:09.360

Phil: Would you eat balsamic vinegar with a fried fish product?

01:10.660 --> 01:11.320

Tom: Yes, I would.

01:11.340 --> 01:14.760

Tom: And that used to be a common thing that was offered at fish and chip shops.

01:14.780 --> 01:15.400

Phil: Balsamic vinegar?

01:16.380 --> 01:16.680

Tom: Yes.

01:16.700 --> 01:17.300

Phil: I did not know that.

01:17.520 --> 01:21.540

Tom: But, but that is, I don't know if balsamic vinegar, but vinegar in general.

01:21.560 --> 01:22.580

Phil: Oh, vinegar, yes, yes.

01:22.780 --> 01:23.040

Tom: Yeah.

01:23.640 --> 01:26.380

Tom: But that seems to be quite rare today in fish and chip shops.

01:26.400 --> 01:30.160

Phil: Well, they cut costs, you know, I mean, you have to buy the little tomato sauce sachets.

01:30.180 --> 01:31.240

Phil: Now those used to be free.

01:32.400 --> 01:32.700

Tom: Yep.

01:33.180 --> 01:45.940

Tom: So the second bite with the lemon juice on it, I think perhaps just due to the association between fish and lemon juice, does actually give it a slightly more fishy flavour to it.

01:47.020 --> 01:01:03.360

Tom: So I think if you bought this and added lemon juice to it, I think it does make for a satisfactory fake fish product and I think in terms of the protein you're getting from it, it's probably higher than in a standard fish of the same size.

01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:04.960

Phil: And most likely less mercury too.

01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:08.740

Tom: Yes, but also less fatty acids.

01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.460

Phil: But the associated flavours thing, that certainly works.

01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:26.380

Phil: I know that in my experience with serving tofu scramble, which is basically like scrambled eggs made out of tofu, if you put on pepper and salt and tomato sauce slash ketchup, it really sells it.

01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:30.420

Phil: You know, then people are like, oh yeah, this really is just like scrambled eggs.

01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.180

Phil: It's like, no, it's just all the shit you put on it.

01:01:32.240 --> 01:01:34.240

Phil: It's just like the stuff you put on scrambled eggs.

01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:36.900

Phil: So yeah.

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:43.180

Phil: Okay, so is that a thumbs, it sounds like probably not a repeat buy for Tom Towers.

01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:49.480

Tom: Solely because if I'm buying something from the chip shop, I'm doing it to get fish.

01:01:50.680 --> 01:01:53.100

Tom: But I would certainly eat that again for sure.

01:01:53.120 --> 01:01:57.340

Tom: So it would be a repeat eat, if not a repeat buy.

01:01:57.380 --> 01:01:58.160

Phil: Repeat eat.

01:01:59.100 --> 01:02:04.920

Phil: Speaking of repeat eats, I've got to say, this has been on the list for quite some time and I just want to cross it off.

01:02:06.200 --> 01:02:07.500

Phil: Giant bombed at gone.

01:02:07.520 --> 01:02:18.600

Phil: So you might recall from me several months ago that half the crew, well, most of the personalities associated with the site quit or were rousted.

01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:25.280

Phil: And it was kind of like, oh my gosh, you know, what's going to go on, you know, with giant bomb?

01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:32.620

Phil: Because I've got to say, there's less and less video game podcasts out there and giant bomb is, you know, the...

01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:34.660

Tom: Our strategy is simply to be the last one left.

01:02:34.680 --> 01:02:35.820

Phil: The last one standing, right.

01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:40.940

Phil: There, I mean, there are less and less choices for video game podcasts.

01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:42.880

Phil: It's quite poor, really.

01:02:45.020 --> 01:02:49.060

Phil: Whereas, you know, podcasting has gotten bigger in every other sense in video game.

01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:56.700

Phil: It's just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, probably because all of that audience has gone over to Twitch and in that form of, you know, content.

01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:07.960

Phil: So they had this big old podcast where they're saying goodbye to all the guys that they just fired and yeah, you know, oh, it's going to be tough.

01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:19.880

Phil: And on that podcast, two things stood out to me, one that there was one of the four people that left that said, hey, you know, just so everyone knows, this was my choice to leave.

01:03:20.640 --> 01:03:24.500

Phil: And the other three didn't say that, which was telling to me.

01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:33.480

Phil: And you know, it's it's the sort of thing it was like, oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, you know, and I just want to make clear that this is also my choice to leave.

01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:35.240

Phil: But you know, none of the others said that.

01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:40.800

Phil: So it's pretty clear that they got fired or laid off rather is more appropriate.

01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:46.440

Phil: And they had this this big long podcast about, oh, yeah, don't know what we're going to do without you guys.

01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:49.860

Phil: But obviously, we're going to have to change direction and everything else.

01:03:50.580 --> 01:03:58.140

Phil: And Giant Bomb had, you know, become increasingly woke, you know, with in terms of the personalities that they were showcasing.

01:03:59.220 --> 01:04:05.480

Phil: And it was also of note that none of the people left had anything kind to say about Jeff Gerstmann.

01:04:06.380 --> 01:04:07.260

Phil: Interesting.

01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:22.580

Phil: And at one point, one of the people leaving went out of their way to thank Jeff Bacalar, who was basically only very recently introduced to the Games Group for the company that they work for and say, yeah, since Jeff...

01:04:22.600 --> 01:04:23.980

Tom: Was he just called Jeff Bacalar?

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:25.500

Phil: No, Jeff Bacalar.

01:04:28.100 --> 01:04:29.620

Phil: He's not a Greek confectionary.

01:04:32.660 --> 01:04:42.300

Phil: So and he like they went out of their way to thank him for everything he had done since he had joined the group and the support that they've gotten since he came on.

01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:45.760

Phil: So, you know, all that was interesting.

01:04:46.580 --> 01:04:49.560

Phil: And then I thought, okay, they're going to do a complete switch.

01:04:49.580 --> 01:05:01.020

Phil: Like, you know, everyone thought, oh, they're going to go to like a multi channel, you know, bring in new influences, diversify everything so that they have more people talking.

01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:11.740

Phil: And then the old crew will take a back seat to the editorial and just basically be directing the company, but they're going to make it newer and, you know, have all these younger people on and do all this stuff.

01:05:12.520 --> 01:05:23.760

Phil: On the very next episode, they basically announced, yeah, we've hired Danny, Danny O'Dwyer, which, you know, you've been a supporter of Danny Doherty's work for longer than I have.

01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:27.060

Tom: He is a visionary tourism.

01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:29.240

Phil: A way of getting money from tourist agencies.

01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:31.860

Tom: He's even more impressive than Scott Morrison.

01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.000

Phil: Yes, or Crocodile Dundee in terms of getting people to go to countries.

01:05:36.020 --> 01:05:38.840

Tom: Those are probably the top three advertisers of all time.

01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:44.100

Tom: Scott Morrison, ScoMo, Crocodile Dundee and Danny O'Dwyer.

01:05:44.120 --> 01:05:48.200

Phil: Our current Prime Minister, and people must be wondering what's wrong with Australia.

01:05:48.220 --> 01:05:50.100

Phil: We've had the same Prime Minister for like two years now.

01:05:53.260 --> 01:05:59.380

Phil: But yeah, his way of attracting tourists to Australia is basically close the borders entirely in both directions.

01:06:01.180 --> 01:06:14.860

Phil: I drive to a city that's nearby to me about once a month, and they have this old rusted bulldozer in their front yard of a farm, and it has a sign on it that says not for sale, right?

01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:21.400

Phil: I can't believe how much interest that must draw to that bulldozer, right?

01:06:21.700 --> 01:06:29.720

Phil: And I was like, one of these days, they're going to take the knot off there, and they're going to sell this thing in like 30 minutes, because every time you drive by it, it says not for sale, not for sale.

01:06:29.740 --> 01:06:30.220

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:33.920

Phil: So one day I drive by and the knot is not on there.

01:06:33.940 --> 01:06:34.920

Phil: It just says for sale.

01:06:35.100 --> 01:06:37.640

Phil: I'm like, holy hell, the bulldozer.

01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.160

Phil: I could go buy that bulldozer.

01:06:39.180 --> 01:06:42.980

Phil: So it turns out that the knot part had just fallen off.

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:53.760

Phil: So it just tickles me that like, you know, because they wouldn't have known that the knot part had fallen off or folded over, right?

01:06:54.100 --> 01:06:59.580

Phil: So like they must have been inundated by people stopping their vehicle going, well, how much do you want for the bulldozer?

01:07:00.700 --> 01:07:04.480

Phil: You know, and then being angered because they had not taken.

01:07:07.180 --> 01:07:10.880

Phil: And all of a sudden they're inundated with people wanting to buy the bulldozer.

01:07:11.860 --> 01:07:15.980

Phil: So the next time I drove by there, they had a new not for sale sign on it.

01:07:16.980 --> 01:07:18.320

Phil: So the bulldozer is still there.

01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:26.340

Phil: That is Scott Morrison's advertising tactic for Australia is that basically you can't come here.

01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:27.980

Phil: No, I don't care.

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:28.900

Phil: You can't come here.

01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:29.460

Phil: I don't care.

01:07:29.700 --> 01:07:30.920

Phil: I'm an Australian citizen.

01:07:30.940 --> 01:07:32.000

Phil: There's 80,000 of us.

01:07:32.020 --> 01:07:32.940

Phil: I'm dying in India.

01:07:33.260 --> 01:07:39.600

Phil: If you come here, we'll put you in jail and we'll fine you $12,000, but I want to come home.

01:07:39.620 --> 01:07:41.080

Phil: You can't come in.

01:07:42.800 --> 01:07:44.520

Phil: And I think, you know, it's got to be working.

01:07:45.260 --> 01:07:46.640

Phil: People have got to be wanting to come in.

01:07:46.660 --> 01:07:50.960

Phil: I mean, look at all the celebrities that are flying in on their own jets, you know, getting around it.

01:07:52.100 --> 01:07:54.360

Tom: So he truly is a marketing genius after all.

01:07:54.380 --> 01:07:54.860

Phil: After all.

01:07:55.180 --> 01:07:57.000

Phil: It's the bulldozer nut for sale tactic.

01:07:58.560 --> 01:07:59.140

Tom: The classic.

01:07:59.160 --> 01:07:59.620

Phil: The classic.

01:07:59.640 --> 01:08:00.640

Tom: From Edward Bernays.

01:08:02.260 --> 01:08:03.480

Phil: What were we talking about anyway?

01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:04.460

Phil: Oh, so anyway.

01:08:05.180 --> 01:08:13.700

Phil: So then they come back on the very next podcast after all of this self-flagellation and, oh my God, what are we going to do without you guys and all the rest of it?

01:08:14.020 --> 01:08:16.180

Phil: And they're like, OK, yeah, we've hired Denny O'Dwyer.

01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:29.640

Phil: And we're also bringing in Jeff Green, who is apparently the only older, whiter, more male person that they didn't have on staff already.

01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:36.140

Phil: And then we're bringing back Dan, whatever his name was, who was there.

01:08:37.340 --> 01:08:45.080

Phil: And they basically announced that they're bringing back all of their friends who are all middle-aged white guys, which is fine.

01:08:45.100 --> 01:08:47.240

Phil: I mean, they can run the business however they want.

01:08:48.500 --> 01:08:59.880

Phil: But it was just so funny because, you know, they'd been going in this direction of diversifying their staff for so long, and now they're all a bunch of middle-aged white guys and good on them.

01:08:59.940 --> 01:09:05.740

Phil: You know, I mean, you know, I think basically their strategy now is to put more things behind a paywall.

01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:14.060

Phil: And I've got to say they do have one Filipino-American working for them before someone sends me a, you know, thing saying, no, no, no, there is diversity there, so.

01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:16.800

Tom: But only one.

01:09:17.120 --> 01:09:17.700

Phil: Yeah, one.

01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:18.220

Tom: Yeah.

01:09:18.700 --> 01:09:22.500

Tom: You need to get at least two just so you don't get accused of token.

01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:28.440

Phil: Well, there's no gender mix, you know, there's no trans on staff, you know.

01:09:29.260 --> 01:09:30.340

Phil: They used to have a lesbian.

01:09:30.360 --> 01:09:31.780

Phil: They don't have a lesbian anymore.

01:09:32.320 --> 01:09:32.900

Phil: They used to have a...

01:09:33.160 --> 01:09:34.420

Tom: How come they don't have a lesbian?

01:09:34.620 --> 01:09:35.240

Phil: I don't know.

01:09:35.260 --> 01:09:39.400

Phil: I mean, we haven't had a lesbian, but obviously that's why we're being held back.

01:09:41.620 --> 01:09:45.100

Phil: We tried to have a lesbian, you know, I think...

01:09:45.300 --> 01:09:47.720

Tom: But unfortunately they were a lesbian, so it didn't work out.

01:09:48.360 --> 01:09:49.940

Phil: They are difficult to work with.

01:09:51.540 --> 01:09:52.660

Phil: That's a joke, you know.

01:09:53.240 --> 01:10:04.620

Phil: But in any case, I just had to get that off the topic list because it was just funny to me that they basically did a left turn and they dropped, you know, four of the main personalities from the site.

01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:07.480

Phil: And, you know, they seem to be doing all right.

01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:11.880

Phil: I mean, the podcast is still listenable other than the Jeff Bacalar guy, so...

01:10:13.620 --> 01:10:14.860

Tom: I've heard he tastes good though.

01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:16.040

Phil: What's that?

01:10:16.420 --> 01:10:16.780

Phil: Oh, the...

01:10:17.260 --> 01:10:18.880

Tom: I said I've heard he tastes good though.

01:10:18.900 --> 01:10:19.640

Phil: The Baklava.

01:10:19.940 --> 01:10:21.000

Phil: Do you know what's in Baklava?

01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:23.160

Phil: It's mostly dates, isn't it?

01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:24.680

Tom: I think so.

01:10:24.700 --> 01:10:25.140

Tom: Yeah, all right.

01:10:25.340 --> 01:10:25.780

Phil: Fair enough.

01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:27.520

Phil: Okay, so what's the last...

01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:30.380

Tom: What do you think the Jeff Gertzman animosity was about?

01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:31.660

Phil: What animosity?

01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:36.540

Tom: You just said they went out of their way of not saying anything nice.

01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:46.880

Phil: Look, Danny O'Dwyer did a doco in the early days of his, you know, endeavor on Jeff Gertzman.

01:10:48.360 --> 01:11:01.640

Phil: And after all the nice stuff, I think he did have to put in there, just for credibility purposes, towards the end of it, you know, there's basically 30 seconds where Danny says, now, I've got to say...

01:11:01.980 --> 01:11:02.740

Phil: That's terrible.

01:11:02.780 --> 01:11:04.720

Phil: My usual iris action is much better.

01:11:05.740 --> 01:11:11.320

Phil: But basically says, you know, Jeff Gertzman can be not the best, you know, the easiest person to get along with.

01:11:11.540 --> 01:11:13.700

Phil: He spends most of his days wearing headphones.

01:11:14.420 --> 01:11:17.740

Phil: And, you know, in his communications, they can be direct.

01:11:20.040 --> 01:11:22.600

<v SPEAKER_3>Jeff isn't the most social person you'll work with.

01:11:22.820 --> 01:11:27.980

<v SPEAKER_3>He commutes to and from Petaluma every day, a 40 mile drive during Bay Area rush hour.

01:11:28.360 --> 01:11:31.140

<v SPEAKER_3>Perhaps it's why he doesn't socialize much after work.

01:11:31.360 --> 01:11:34.160

<v SPEAKER_3>Or maybe it's a convenient excuse to not have to.

01:11:34.420 --> 01:11:37.680

<v SPEAKER_3>At his desk, he sits with headphones on, usually working on something.

01:11:37.900 --> 01:11:40.360

<v SPEAKER_3>When he talks to you, he speaks openly and honestly.

01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:42.700

<v SPEAKER_3>And when he doesn't want to talk, he doesn't.

01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:52.980

Phil: So you know, I think he's just probably just like not a personality kind of guy other than when he goes on to the podcast.

01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:58.340

Phil: Apparently he doesn't say a lot when he's not in front of a camera or a microphone.

01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:03.560

Phil: And you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

01:12:03.620 --> 01:12:09.480

Phil: But I mean, you've got to get along with your if you've been working with people for 10 plus years, you've got to find a way to get along with them.

01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:19.440

Phil: I think also too, that basically he became a manager slash owner out of duress and he probably just prefers being a content creator.

01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:23.260

Phil: And then he got put into the position of being an owner slash manager.

01:12:24.200 --> 01:12:27.160

Phil: And he's probably not cut out for it, you know, and he didn't ask for it.

01:12:27.180 --> 01:12:28.200

Phil: But that's just very good.

01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:30.460

Phil: Now I hear you've rolled the die of destiny.

01:12:30.480 --> 01:12:31.960

Phil: So what score?

01:12:31.980 --> 01:12:35.760

Tom: We're going to have to rate Giant Bomb, I think.

01:12:36.940 --> 01:12:43.560

Tom: I just want to add quickly though, you said the last 30 seconds of credibility, they added the bit about Jeff Gershman there.

01:12:43.580 --> 01:12:53.780

Tom: I think the subtext there by the standards of Noclip is that he must have been murdering people in the studio basement or something.

01:12:56.220 --> 01:13:07.960

Tom: Because I think if you will recall on the ad for Ireland that he did, as well as about 30 seconds on George Romero or whoever he was ostensibly interviewing there.

01:13:09.540 --> 01:13:18.320

Tom: As well as 30 seconds for that, there was like a two second snippet saying that this sort of thing totally destroyed the Irish economy, move on instantly.

01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:27.840

Tom: So, if you're getting a full 30 seconds there, something serious must have been going on at Giant Bomb.

01:13:27.860 --> 01:13:28.520

Phil: Ando crime.

01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:30.100

Phil: Okay.

01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:30.980

Phil: All right.

01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:34.680

Phil: So, what score did you give my summary of the changes at Giant?

01:13:34.740 --> 01:13:36.520

Tom: No, this is a rating for Giant Bomb.

01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:46.760

Tom: They use the five-point scale, typically.

01:13:46.780 --> 01:13:48.260

Tom: That's a one out of five.

01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:50.460

Phil: Sounds about right.

01:13:50.480 --> 01:13:53.080

Tom: I think that's a fair rating.

01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:53.480

Phil: I think so.

01:13:53.500 --> 01:13:54.180

Tom: I think that is a fair rating.

01:13:54.200 --> 01:13:54.600

Phil: I think so.

01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.580

Phil: It's a good podcast.

01:13:56.980 --> 01:14:00.340

Phil: But I don't think they deserve the great community that they've got.

01:14:00.360 --> 01:14:02.600

Phil: They've got a really good community over there.

01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:04.680

Tom: Arnie is a big fan.

01:14:05.020 --> 01:14:05.280

Phil: Yeah.

01:14:06.160 --> 01:14:07.240

Phil: I am a big fan too.

01:14:07.260 --> 01:14:14.740

Phil: I mean, you know, I listen to almost anything they put out, but you know, there's not a lot out there to listen to these days.

01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.680

Tom: So you said they're putting a lot of stuff behind a paywall.

01:14:18.700 --> 01:14:20.840

Tom: Would you pay for any of their content?

01:14:21.460 --> 01:14:23.460

Phil: I don't have the time to pay for their content.

01:14:23.480 --> 01:14:29.480

Phil: Like if I had more time, I probably would throw a few bucks their way.

01:14:30.100 --> 01:14:35.320

Phil: But you know, the additional content, they've got some additional podcasts that they've added behind a paywall.

01:14:36.660 --> 01:14:43.520

Phil: If the video game podcasting, it's really like four shows that are worth listening to anymore, including our own.

01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:59.480

Phil: So if it gets much worse than I probably will, just so I have something else to listen to, because usually I'm listening to politics or sports or, you know, reference material or, you know, that sort of thing.

01:15:01.120 --> 01:15:09.380

Phil: So, you know, if I did need more content, I probably would pay the trivial amount that they're asking for to support their model.

01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:22.980

Tom: Before we move on from the real topic of this conversation, which is Noclip, I just have to add that the more one really thinks about the crowning achievement of Noclip, which was the Rocket League documentary.

01:15:23.280 --> 01:15:23.960

Phil: The first one.

01:15:23.980 --> 01:15:28.720

Tom: The more, yes, that's right, yep, and arguably their only good video.

01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:39.100

Tom: The more even that video kind of just comes across as very much an internally made making of documentary.

01:15:39.980 --> 01:16:07.860

Tom: Because while it did feature some, I mean it had a lot of content in it, while it did feature some potentially uncomfortable moments in it, everything was absolutely and totally spun into it being essentially a story of how amazing the company is and what they managed to achieve with the incredible excess of Rocket League and so on and so forth.

01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:10.700

Phil: Do you think that comes out of politeness?

01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:16.400

Phil: Like does that come out of, you know, the people from the UK just being polite?

01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:18.240

Phil: I mean does that carry over into Ireland?

01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:18.680

Phil: I don't know.

01:16:20.420 --> 01:16:31.940

Tom: I don't think politeness is a big thing in Ireland in the same way as in England anyway, but I think it comes from two things.

01:16:33.240 --> 01:16:50.520

Tom: One is I would say the newness of the medium because that was pretty much the first large quote investigative end quote journalist style things done on YouTube games criticism.

01:16:53.080 --> 01:17:05.900

Tom: And two, just the way that the games commentary industry works in conjunction with PR companies and with development studios.

01:17:05.940 --> 01:17:13.920

Tom: I doubt he would have been able to get the sort of access he had if he was not making something which was essentially an advertisement.

01:17:14.380 --> 01:17:32.360

Tom: Because the only thing outside of that where that where there is commentary on games that is not part explicitly of the marketing campaign for games is by random individuals, for example, Jason Schreier, who we were talking about earlier.

01:17:33.640 --> 01:17:38.520

Tom: Yeah, I think I think he got away with it just due to the change in the medium.

01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:48.120

Phil: I do think politeness does have something to do with it as well because I mean, he is relying 100% on studios giving him access.

01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:59.680

Phil: So the second he does a knife job on a studio that's let him in, I mean, you go in there, you meet everyone, you talk to them, you get to know them.

01:17:59.860 --> 01:18:03.240

Phil: I mean, it does make it difficult to do a slam piece on them.

01:18:04.060 --> 01:18:14.340

Phil: I mean, it does, for a normal human being, unless you're seeking attention, it does make it difficult to make it negative.

01:18:14.360 --> 01:18:21.060

Phil: But the other thing too is if someone's letting you have, quote, full access, how much negativity are you going to interact with?

01:18:21.080 --> 01:18:23.480

Phil: It's not like they're saying, oh yeah, you have full access.

01:18:24.200 --> 01:18:25.700

Phil: Here's our HR department.

01:18:25.720 --> 01:18:34.260

Phil: Just ask them whatever you want about issues that employees have had in the past, management decisions and things like that.

01:18:35.580 --> 01:18:38.640

Tom: I'm just saying that there should be some self-awareness of this.

01:18:40.480 --> 01:19:01.440

Tom: If you're visiting America on an official tour, or the Soviet Union on an official tour, or North Korea on an official tour, and you're going along seeing these areas, you would expect there for someone who calls themselves a games critic or journalist, there to be some self-awareness that this is occurring.

01:19:02.180 --> 01:19:03.300

Tom: That's all I'm saying.

01:19:03.320 --> 01:19:03.960

Phil: You are right.

01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:12.320

Phil: I mean, it would be good for him to say to people like, while he's interviewing them, since you've given me full access, let me just talk to you and, okay, and how'd you do this in the game?

01:19:12.340 --> 01:19:13.440

Phil: Oh, yeah, and how'd you do that in the game?

01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:22.100

Phil: Yeah, but sure, there must have been times where you would have preferred to have been home with your family and you stayed here because you felt pressured to stay here, right?

01:19:22.120 --> 01:19:25.340

Phil: So there are ways to get to that, right?

01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:29.580

Phil: And I'm sure you really enjoy working in the game industry.

01:19:30.140 --> 01:19:44.780

Phil: It's very rewarding to be in a creative endeavor, but it's certainly, you must know that you'd be making at least two times more if you're working in development for other software in other industries, right?

01:19:45.300 --> 01:19:54.220

Phil: And try and itch those scabs sort of thing to try and get them to say something on those topics and that just doesn't happen.

01:19:55.820 --> 01:20:10.600

Phil: And yeah, and it does hurt the content because certainly like I start watching a lot of no clip shows and then stop watching, you know, I don't watch them all the way through because they're clearly just advertising, you know, free advertising pieces.

01:20:11.240 --> 01:20:26.220

Phil: And the ones that were the most offensive to me or the least interesting to me was the stuff that he did with Bethesda, which was time and time again, just basically they were just like watching videos that the in-house.

01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:34.320

Tom: For instance, there surely he how did he miss the Bill Cosby pictures and everything?

01:20:34.740 --> 01:20:35.640

Tom: I don't understand it.

01:20:35.740 --> 01:20:36.520

Tom: How did he know it?

01:20:36.540 --> 01:20:37.080

Phil: Activision.

01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:41.960

Tom: Well, they owned by Bethesda, sorry, they owned Bethesda.

01:20:42.580 --> 01:20:44.100

Phil: No, Bethesda is owned by...

01:20:44.160 --> 01:20:45.840

Tom: Oh, wait, no, there's Zenimax.

01:20:45.860 --> 01:20:47.880

Phil: Zenimax is owned by Microsoft now.

01:20:48.300 --> 01:20:49.460

Tom: I stand corrected.

01:20:49.680 --> 01:20:51.360

Tom: They've got the Jeffrey Epstein poster.

01:20:51.600 --> 01:20:52.220

Phil: That's right.

01:20:52.240 --> 01:20:52.720

Tom: I'm sorry.

01:20:53.780 --> 01:20:57.200

Phil: Jeffrey Epstein room, yeah.

01:20:57.280 --> 01:20:59.440

Phil: I heard Bill Gates talking about that last week.

01:20:59.460 --> 01:21:00.160

Phil: It was interesting.

01:21:01.760 --> 01:21:05.360

Phil: Do you care or anything about the whole Activision thing or...

01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:09.580

Tom: Well, I mean, I've already made one joke about it.

01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:10.780

Tom: So do we need to make more...

01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:12.080

Phil: Not really, not really.

01:21:12.360 --> 01:21:15.320

Phil: It's an old trope at this point.

01:21:16.740 --> 01:21:20.040

Phil: But yeah, I think I do like Danny D'Andre.

01:21:20.080 --> 01:21:20.980

Phil: I've got to say that.

01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:24.780

Phil: I do think he's an authentic character and...

01:21:25.200 --> 01:21:26.000

Phil: I agree.

01:21:26.040 --> 01:21:31.020

Phil: He is very good at what he does in terms of the production values and things like that.

01:21:31.040 --> 01:21:33.220

Phil: I think he does phenomenal work.

01:21:34.340 --> 01:21:39.740

Phil: Got to think that he might be able to do more, but he wouldn't get the access that he gets.

01:21:40.760 --> 01:21:54.400

Tom: Of the three advertising luminaries of today we've mentioned, Scott Morrison, Danny O'Dwyer and Crocodile Dundee, I do believe that Danny O'Dwyer is the only authentic and likable one among them.

01:21:54.840 --> 01:22:01.740

Phil: I was going to say, if you could have a beer with Scott Morrison, Paul Hogan slash Crocodile Dundee or Danny O'Dwyer.

01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.720

Tom: I would probably say Scott Morrison.

01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:11.600

Tom: I think that would be the most interesting.

01:22:11.620 --> 01:22:12.040

Phil: Yes.

01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:19.580

Phil: Look, in terms of people I want to meet, I don't know what I'd say.

01:22:20.140 --> 01:22:26.000

Phil: In terms of having a beer with someone, probably Danny O'Dwyer because being a fellow Irishman, I'm pretty sure that he could keep up with me.

01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:33.660

Tom: And then again, if they're purchasing the type of beer, I think I would probably have to go with the Irishman as well.

01:22:35.240 --> 01:22:38.040

Tom: Because I don't trust what either of the Australians will be drinking.

01:22:38.380 --> 01:22:40.320

Phil: It's not going to be Foster's, I can tell you that.

01:22:41.820 --> 01:22:43.640

Phil: Do we want to talk about another game or?

01:22:44.440 --> 01:22:47.500

Tom: Well, we did review Omno on the website, I believe.

01:22:47.940 --> 01:22:51.400

Phil: A masterful, another game that looks like Sky or Journey.

01:22:52.020 --> 01:22:54.260

Tom: There are quite a few of them now, or at least two.

01:22:54.540 --> 01:23:00.680

Phil: And another game, you were quite taken with the independent developer, please tell me the name of them.

01:23:02.080 --> 01:23:04.040

Tom: Was it Jonas Manke?

01:23:04.920 --> 01:23:08.020

Phil: Yeah, so the Omni review is on the front page of our website.

01:23:09.120 --> 01:23:12.320

Phil: And yeah, Jonas Manke, or Jonas Manke.

01:23:13.240 --> 01:23:14.140

Tom: Jonas Manke.

01:23:14.180 --> 01:23:17.760

Phil: Yeah, and like Tim Keenan, he's a former animator.

01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:23.160

Phil: I recently re-listened to your interview with Tim Keenan, by the way, which was outstanding.

01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:28.640

Phil: One of the good things about being the long-standing podcast.

01:23:29.060 --> 01:23:46.680

Tom: I think, fine, it did feature some tough moments, including, I think, the most awkward and uncomfortable thing for any developer to face, which was, particularly as an indie developer there, my comments criticising her story, which she had to respond to.

01:23:46.700 --> 01:23:58.860

Tom: I think you could feel the fear and terror that something critical on an indie game being stated caused an email.

01:23:58.880 --> 01:24:08.520

Phil: Episode 48 was the first interview, or second interview you had done with him, and he was the creator of Duskers and what was his first game called?

01:24:10.280 --> 01:24:12.040

Phil: A Virus Named Tom, yeah, exactly.

01:24:12.660 --> 01:24:14.340

Phil: Sounded like a delightful chap.

01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:15.780

Tom: He did indeed.

01:24:16.460 --> 01:24:17.860

Phil: Did you interview him after that?

01:24:19.040 --> 01:24:19.960

Tom: No, I don't think so.

01:24:19.980 --> 01:24:23.380

Phil: Okay, I don't know what happened to him after Duskers.

01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:29.380

Tom: I'm pretty sure Duskers is the last game he has made thus far.

01:24:29.400 --> 01:24:33.780

Tom: I think he's possibly not working full-time in games at the moment.

01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:44.960

Tom: But Duskers, you actually see being mentioned around here and there on the internet today still, which is perhaps not that surprising given its uniqueness.

01:24:45.460 --> 01:24:59.840

Phil: I think too, if I could just speak candidly, I know that his wife who was also one of the co-developers of the game was pregnant with their first child, second child.

01:24:59.860 --> 01:25:20.040

Phil: So I do think that that game development period in this pre-COVID world lent them as a family the opportunity to spend a lot of time together, which would have been a wonderful thing for them, as they brought up their first two children or their first two children into the world sort of thing.

01:25:21.160 --> 01:25:24.880

Phil: So and the fact that the games are still getting mentioned today is notable.

01:25:25.160 --> 01:25:29.860

Phil: I'm sure they're still drawing income in this if they ever get noticed sort of thing.

01:25:31.360 --> 01:25:32.060

Tom: Quite possibly.

01:25:32.080 --> 01:25:39.580

Phil: But Omno was also made by a former animator, but it is derivative.

01:25:39.820 --> 01:25:42.760

Phil: I mean, it looks a lot like Journey.

01:25:42.780 --> 01:25:45.600

Phil: It looks like it's got sand surfing in there as well.

01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:47.000

Phil: What sort of game is it?

01:25:49.220 --> 01:25:53.960

Tom: Well, it is a 3D platformer and it is highly derivative.

01:25:53.980 --> 01:26:10.720

Tom: I think the thing that makes it nevertheless of interest is unlike Duskers, where again, there are a few cinematic things there that would come from animation, but due to the nature of the game, it is not so much about animation here.

01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:36.920

Tom: I think the interesting ways it is more like a short animated film or a dreamworks, not necessarily Pixar style animation, do set it apart from things it is copying such as Journey or Eco, where both of them are very much original.

01:26:37.240 --> 01:26:50.900

Tom: And if they have a reference to other mediums in a big way, it's ones that one would not necessarily immediately associate with games such as literature and painting.

01:26:51.820 --> 01:26:53.600

Phil: So that review is on our site.

01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:55.240

Phil: You played it on PC, no doubt?

01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:57.040

Tom: Yes, I did.

01:26:58.740 --> 01:27:00.140

Phil: Anything else you want to talk about?

01:27:01.560 --> 01:27:09.060

Tom: Well, that review was well received on the VG Press, I believe, by VEDA and Supreme AC.

01:27:09.080 --> 01:27:12.600

Tom: And I'm pretty sure that that has happened on a couple of occasions in the past.

01:27:12.900 --> 01:27:25.680

Tom: And I've noticed a pattern that my best received reviews, at least at the VG Press, are always the ones that are written the fastest and with the least amount of time and effort put into them.

01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:31.820

Phil: Well, I mean, the people that are still contributing to discussion forums, that's how they roll, right?

01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.000

Phil: I mean, that's how they communicate.

01:27:34.100 --> 01:27:34.740

Phil: Yes.

01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:35.760

Phil: That is true.

01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:38.680

Tom: Speaking of communication.

01:27:40.300 --> 01:27:40.640

Tom: Yes.

01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:53.020

Tom: We have been, I have now been, I don't know if anyone has noticed, because it has, essentially our Twitter style has ended up being the same, which is posting absolutely nothing.

01:27:54.500 --> 01:28:02.860

Tom: But I did subtly and stealthily take over The Game Under Twitter account.

01:28:03.740 --> 01:28:04.620

Tom: Some time ago.

01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:07.280

Phil: I noticed an increase in topless selfies.

01:28:07.440 --> 01:28:09.920

Phil: So it wasn't that, it was noticed.

01:28:11.200 --> 01:28:19.360

Tom: Well, there would be, if I had gone to the effort of uploading cyberpunk screenshots, there would have been a lot of topless selfies.

01:28:20.200 --> 01:28:20.840

Phil: Very cool.

01:28:21.780 --> 01:28:28.420

Tom: And if we ever have an Instagram for Game Under, there will be a lot, because there are a lot of cyberpunk screenshots to go through.

01:28:28.440 --> 01:28:29.300

Phil: Hey, you know what?

01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:31.160

Phil: This brings me up to another topic.

01:28:32.300 --> 01:28:33.980

Phil: Say what you will about Homefront.

01:28:35.480 --> 01:28:39.600

Phil: They shipped a game on a disc with pretty much no ability to update it.

01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:41.900

Phil: At least the bloody thing worked.

01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:42.900

Phil: And it was a game.

01:28:42.980 --> 01:28:45.100

Phil: I mean, can you imagine how scary that would have been?

01:28:45.540 --> 01:29:07.680

Phil: Like producing a game back in the day when you're just putting it on a disc or a cartridge and just hoping like hell that you captured everything as opposed to cyberpunk, which is like basically if they ever get sued in a class action lawsuit, other than by their shareholders, they basically decide, well, we'll just ship it and fuck it.

01:29:07.700 --> 01:29:09.860

Phil: You know, I mean, we'll update it later.

01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:17.860

Phil: The game is unplayable on the largest platform available other than PC, which is PlayStation 4.

01:29:19.580 --> 01:29:20.820

Phil: It's just incredible to me.

01:29:23.460 --> 01:29:31.000

Phil: And I think a lot about Homefront, mostly because it's at eye line level when I walk out of the media room.

01:29:31.780 --> 01:29:35.680

Phil: That section of video games happens to be the last thing I see as I walk out of the media room.

01:29:37.580 --> 01:29:40.780

Phil: But anyway, I had to say that.

01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:49.280

Phil: That game did have a running treadmill hooked up for a water filtration system in it to water the garden of tomatoes or something.

01:29:50.020 --> 01:29:50.520

Phil: Is that right?

01:29:51.700 --> 01:29:52.140

Tom: Did it?

01:29:53.300 --> 01:29:54.760

Phil: There's only one way to find out.

01:29:54.780 --> 01:29:55.380

Tom: Wait, yeah, yeah.

01:29:55.400 --> 01:29:57.240

Tom: The intro, during the intro, yes.

01:29:57.260 --> 01:29:57.840

Tom: Something like that.

01:29:57.860 --> 01:29:58.760

Phil: There's only one way to find out.

01:29:58.780 --> 01:30:00.100

Phil: That's for us to both get back to the game.

01:30:00.120 --> 01:30:00.800

Phil: It's time for a replay.

01:30:00.820 --> 01:30:02.160

Phil: It's time for a replay.

01:30:02.660 --> 01:30:06.440

Phil: I think it also had a bridge level, but I just might be thinking of Killzone.

01:30:06.460 --> 01:30:08.800

Tom: Yes, one of the worst bridge levels in history.

01:30:09.660 --> 01:30:11.060

Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry.

01:30:11.080 --> 01:30:14.100

Tom: And I'm not sure there has ever been a good bridge level in a first person shooter.

01:30:14.120 --> 01:30:15.420

Phil: What were you saying about Twitter?

01:30:18.980 --> 01:30:21.760

Tom: Yes, I also actually think about Homefront on and off.

01:30:21.780 --> 01:30:22.120

Phil: You do.

01:30:22.780 --> 01:30:27.720

Tom: Surprisingly often, there is something about that game that sticks with you.

01:30:27.740 --> 01:30:28.020

Phil: Yeah.

01:30:28.420 --> 01:30:29.440

Tom: There definitely is.

01:30:29.620 --> 01:30:35.320

Phil: Yeah, and this is the original Homefront, not that they did another one that was crap a couple of years ago.

01:30:36.880 --> 01:30:37.800

Tom: Yet another crap.

01:30:37.820 --> 01:30:38.520

Tom: Well, yeah.

01:30:38.620 --> 01:30:39.420

Tom: Two in a row.

01:30:39.440 --> 01:30:40.420

Phil: It was absolutely worse.

01:30:40.440 --> 01:30:42.540

Phil: It was inexplicable as to why they went back to it.

01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:45.020

Phil: What is our Twitter handle anyway?

01:30:45.100 --> 01:30:46.420

Phil: It's Game Under Phil, right?

01:30:47.480 --> 01:30:49.380

Tom: Yes, Game at Game Under Phil.

01:30:49.400 --> 01:30:55.180

Phil: If you want to follow us at Game Under Phil, I'm just having a look now.

01:30:55.920 --> 01:31:03.160

Phil: Oh, you promoted our podcast and you promoted your review of Omno and Inglot.

01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.420

Tom: At the same time, I believe.

01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:08.940

Tom: In the one tweet, that's how succinct I can be.

01:31:11.100 --> 01:31:17.240

Phil: Oh, Tim Keenan retweeted, Duskers turns five years old today.

01:31:19.340 --> 01:31:21.240

Phil: And he didn't ask for anything on Reddit Games.

01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:22.840

Phil: 50% off Steam.

01:31:23.140 --> 01:31:24.960

Phil: And he's returned to being a full-time indie.

01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.820

Tom: There we go.

01:31:26.840 --> 01:31:28.500

Tom: So he was not, now he is.

01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:29.340

Phil: Misfit Addicts.

01:31:30.440 --> 01:31:31.540

Phil: Okay, cool.

01:31:32.660 --> 01:31:33.940

Phil: Probably time to check in with him, huh?

01:31:35.320 --> 01:31:36.020

Tom: Quite possibly.

01:31:37.360 --> 01:31:40.040

Tom: So Twitter, I believe we were talking about.

01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:57.160

Tom: Now, I don't know if it's the people that you were following or not, but it can't just be the people you're following because I know quite a few of them, such as Jamie and the Endless Backlog crew and Chris Langner.

01:31:58.240 --> 01:32:02.580

Tom: Chris Langner and Gargan are potentially the two exceptions to this.

01:32:03.120 --> 01:32:19.760

Tom: But I do wonder what exactly the utility of having 140 character limit is because it appears to be very difficult to say anything interesting in 130 words or less.

01:32:19.840 --> 01:32:21.780

Phil: Yes, we've noticed this about you, Tom.

01:32:21.800 --> 01:32:25.500

Tom: 140 characters or less, sorry.

01:32:26.220 --> 01:32:27.080

Tom: And if you do...

01:32:27.280 --> 01:32:32.740

Tom: It's difficult for you to say anything in less than 140 paragraphs.

01:32:33.200 --> 01:32:34.900

Tom: My tweets are impeccable.

01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:38.800

Tom: I literally promoted two things in the one tweet.

01:32:38.920 --> 01:32:39.660

Tom: I'll have you know.

01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:42.800

Tom: So this does not apply to me at all.

01:32:43.060 --> 01:33:12.520

Tom: But the only time anyone says anything vaguely interesting in on Twitter, for the most part, it is either a joke which requires no response to it or it is a statement that is filled with so much vitriol and fury that the only way to respond to it would be to come up with something even more heinous and eviscerate.

01:33:12.540 --> 01:33:13.380

Phil: That would be awesome.

01:33:15.040 --> 01:33:16.840

Phil: Now you're making me want to go back to Twitter.

01:33:19.040 --> 01:33:23.700

Tom: Which has led me to not communicate with anyone on Twitter.

01:33:24.540 --> 01:33:29.860

Phil: I think, I've always said you're the master quip, you're the quip master, rather.

01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:37.960

Phil: And yeah, I think if you took it from a shock comedy perspective, I think you could do a lot with Twitter.

01:33:38.420 --> 01:33:39.260

Phil: I think that'd be fun.

01:33:40.340 --> 01:33:44.460

Tom: Well, Chris Langner posts a stream of jokes that are usually pretty reasonable.

01:33:44.480 --> 01:33:45.540

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:33:45.580 --> 01:33:54.320

Phil: I actually like Twitter and the people that I was following on Twitter because it's made up mostly of people in Australia and New Zealand loosely associated with it.

01:33:54.340 --> 01:33:58.320

Tom: And I just have to add, I think my tweeting record is reasonable.

01:33:58.340 --> 01:34:06.900

Tom: For instance, when Super Straight was trending, I posted, hi, Super Straight, Super Gay, Super Lesbian.

01:34:07.200 --> 01:34:08.740

Tom: You have to check out this sexuality.

01:34:08.740 --> 01:34:12.620

Tom: It's the most innovative sexuality I've had intercourse with in years.

01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:14.480

Tom: Hashtag superhot.

01:34:15.380 --> 01:34:16.900

Phil: Pretty good, pretty good.

01:34:17.320 --> 01:34:17.920

Phil: Super hot.

01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:21.600

Tom: I'm not saying it was great, but it did use the medium successfully.

01:34:21.740 --> 01:34:22.680

Tom: That's all I'm saying.

01:34:22.860 --> 01:34:24.780

Phil: Super hot's another game, I think, about a fair bit.

01:34:25.580 --> 01:34:30.380

Phil: Hey, so, what is the last stop for this episode?

01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:35.100

Tom: The last stop for this episode is Salt Shaker Lane.

01:34:36.980 --> 01:34:40.100

Tom: Now, last stop, I've forgotten who to develop and what they're called.

01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:53.300

Tom: But they, Variable State, yes, and they are famous for making Virginia, which was at the height of indie experience games.

01:34:53.460 --> 01:35:03.920

Tom: And it was very heavily inspired by the likes of Twin Peaks and the X-Files and things of that nature.

01:35:04.440 --> 01:35:09.500

Tom: And I remember impressively little about that game.

01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:16.560

Tom: I remember a few of the settings and a couple of the characters, but that is about it.

01:35:16.580 --> 01:35:25.380

Tom: Whereas I remember other games from that sort of era that I liked even less, such as for instance, Gone Home, very well indeed.

01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:34.120

Tom: So I was really not going into this with the highest of expectations to say the least.

01:35:34.180 --> 01:35:35.640

Phil: It was not a memorable game.

01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:45.200

Phil: It borrowed heavily from like X-Files sort of thing, but also at the same time, the Walking Dead video games type of thing.

01:35:45.200 --> 01:35:47.960

Phil: And it just wasn't particularly interesting.

01:35:48.400 --> 01:35:57.420

Phil: The art style was reminiscent of Sunset by one of our other favorite game developers.

01:35:57.440 --> 01:36:03.060

Phil: And yeah, I just remember not really finishing the game or feeling a need to play much of it.

01:36:04.360 --> 01:36:10.020

Phil: So this is a studio that's based in England and Dublin.

01:36:12.200 --> 01:36:16.160

Phil: And it's available, published by Annapurna Interactive.

01:36:16.700 --> 01:36:17.640

Phil: And it's on everything.

01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:20.580

Phil: So Windows through Switch, everything in between.

01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:27.420

Phil: It's a single player exploration game that came out just very recently, July 22nd.

01:36:29.300 --> 01:36:31.840

Phil: And it's set in 1980s London, I understand.

01:36:32.720 --> 01:36:34.880

Tom: Well, I think it's set in present day London.

01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:40.080

Tom: But it begins in 1980s London.

01:36:40.100 --> 01:36:42.320

Phil: OK, and then jumps to the 2020s.

01:36:42.340 --> 01:36:43.880

Tom: That's right, jumps ahead in time.

01:36:44.020 --> 01:36:52.880

Tom: And the plot set up is basically that someone disappears in the London underground in supernatural circumstances.

01:36:54.360 --> 01:37:08.380

Tom: And then skips ahead to the three different stories featuring four protagonists who each have their own interaction with the paranormal things that are going on.

01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:18.860

Tom: One character works for a company that is investigating these paranormal activities, potentially for the military industrial complex.

01:37:19.920 --> 01:37:32.100

Tom: Another character is a teenager who runs into a mysterious character who may be kidnapping people or something to that effect.

01:37:32.620 --> 01:37:41.720

Tom: And another story is about two characters once, who are involved in a body swapping scenario.

01:37:42.820 --> 01:37:48.240

Phil: Well, it sounds like it's got the capability of exploiting some pretty good game mechanics.

01:37:50.040 --> 01:37:51.580

Tom: Well, it certainly does not do that.

01:37:53.200 --> 01:38:12.340

Tom: The gameplay consists of choosing dialogue responses, which as far as I can tell do not have much of effect on what is said, and certainly do not affect the way that the plot unrolls in any way, shape or form, except in maybe a couple of decisions at the end.

01:38:14.820 --> 01:38:17.280

Tom: And that's pretty much it for the gameplay.

01:38:17.300 --> 01:38:36.580

Tom: There are a few QTE style things in the style of Indigo Prophecy slash Fahrenheit, such as if you're drinking a cup of coffee, if you're playing on a keyboard, you press, I think, A then S, then W as if you're moving the cup towards you, then lifting it, something like that.

01:38:39.540 --> 01:38:48.040

Tom: And also if you're running, you might press A and D back and forth very quickly to get a speed boost, that sort of thing.

01:38:49.300 --> 01:38:54.080

Tom: Though again, I don't know if failing those things actually has any effect either.

01:38:54.540 --> 01:38:57.500

Tom: So in gameplay terms, I don't think it is very interesting.

01:38:57.940 --> 01:39:05.120

Tom: In terms of the setting and story, it is a big step up from Virginia.

01:39:05.720 --> 01:39:18.160

Tom: I think mainly because there is a sense of humour to the story of all, to all three stories in the game, particularly unsurprisingly the body swapping story.

01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:35.540

Tom: As one of the characters is a game developer who looks like a fitness fanatic version of PewDiePie and another is a overweight bald middle-aged man with heart problems who has a daughter.

01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:47.700

Tom: So that's played up for all the laughs that you would expect and works quite well as a complement to the slightly more serious and mysterious other two stories.

01:39:47.980 --> 01:40:17.840

Tom: But the thing that surprised me was the sense of humour and self-awareness throughout the game which makes me wonder if I should go back to Virginia to see if it is in fact a parody because the only thing I remember about Virginia as well as a couple of the settings looking relatively okay was that a few moments were very unintentionally funny and now I'm wondering after playing this if they were actually intentionally funny, though they probably were not.

01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:20.480

Phil: Have you played this game to its completion?

01:40:21.500 --> 01:40:21.920

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:40:21.940 --> 01:40:23.700

Phil: I've heard it's about four hours long.

01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:24.140

Phil: Is that...

01:40:25.660 --> 01:40:27.100

Tom: Yep, that would be about right.

01:40:27.200 --> 01:40:32.480

Tom: It's not very long, but it also does not really live outlive its welcome.

01:40:35.020 --> 01:41:01.080

Tom: some of the chapters are extremely short, so I think perhaps structurally it would have worked better to make it less chapters with adding some of the chapters to the story in other chapters, because some of them basically last literally 10 minutes, where a chapter elsewhere will have lasted 30 or 40 minutes or so.

01:41:02.500 --> 01:41:13.940

Tom: So, there are some odd pacing decisions there, but otherwise it is relatively concise in how it tells its story.

01:41:15.560 --> 01:41:33.220

Phil: I rely on Wikipedia to kind of bring me up to speed on these games that I've never heard about and isn't it telling that, like, you can bring up a game that was released in July of this year and it doesn't have a reception section because no one reviews games anymore.

01:41:34.520 --> 01:41:44.300

Phil: You know, like, there's no Metacritic link or anything else and, you know, maybe that's just because the people who have put together this page aren't, you know, particularly interested in following it up.

01:41:45.500 --> 01:41:52.020

Phil: So I don't know how it's been received, but apparently there's a series of mini game interactions throughout the game.

01:41:52.040 --> 01:41:53.140

Phil: I was interested about that.

01:41:54.680 --> 01:41:55.620

Tom: What were the mini games?

01:41:56.160 --> 01:42:02.400

Phil: Were players control one of three main characters deciding what they should say and performing a variety of mini game interactions?

01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.680

Tom: I think that probably means the QTEs, but they don't want to call it QTEs.

01:42:09.460 --> 01:42:12.320

Phil: Yeah, and unfortunately the citations for that.

01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:26.820

Phil: You know, Dean Takahashi, he's like, he's another guy who wrote inside the Xbox as an investigative, quote, journalist, not really investigative journalist, but as a journalist.

01:42:28.480 --> 01:42:33.380

Phil: That was an outstanding book about the development of the original Xbox, but he's still kicking around.

01:42:34.660 --> 01:42:38.780

Tom: While we're going on as asides here, you said no one really reviews things.

01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:55.660

Tom: And GameSpot was a fascinating incubator of what the internet would be, which with the current games community not really having anything similar to that, but being broken up in various areas.

01:42:56.140 --> 01:43:16.740

Tom: Is Steam not now in fact somewhat like what GameSpot was with its myriad of user reviews ranging from seriously done writing to random stuff and sometimes very in depth games forums as well.

01:43:17.100 --> 01:43:22.680

Tom: It is not unlike a GameSpot that does not have any off topic discussion.

01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:32.740

Phil: I think with the destruction of NeoGAF, they got, what was it called, Remember Mead?

01:43:34.080 --> 01:43:35.120

Tom: Reset Era?

01:43:35.120 --> 01:43:38.360

Phil: Yeah, I mean they got turned into Reset Era.

01:43:38.740 --> 01:43:48.320

Phil: I think Reset Era, I haven't gone there, you know, per se, so I don't know if they've carried on that sort of community type thing that GameSpot had.

01:43:49.740 --> 01:43:55.600

Phil: But no, and also, you know, Reddit to an extent, but I agree with your point entirely.

01:43:56.480 --> 01:44:10.720

Phil: I think that Steam has a really rich community and, you know, you have this community where you have not only forums but also, you know, people pimping their content, be it a review or whatever.

01:44:10.740 --> 01:44:13.400

Phil: Yeah, no, I completely buy into that.

01:44:13.420 --> 01:44:18.180

Phil: I think Steam, because of its old school nature, they don't really do a lot with it.

01:44:18.200 --> 01:44:35.120

Phil: They don't really change that much unless they're forced to interchange, as you've seen with the GUI, graphical user interface they've updated, you know, based on competitive forces recently, like Epic Games and every other game store.

01:44:35.740 --> 01:44:37.380

Phil: But no, I completely buy that.

01:44:37.660 --> 01:44:38.540

Phil: You're absolutely right.

01:44:39.880 --> 01:44:43.420

Phil: So, back to our stop, and Off Topic was a great forum.

01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:51.160

Tom: It was, and not just the Off Topic forum, there were also the Off Topic blogs and unions as well.

01:44:51.440 --> 01:44:54.460

Phil: Gotta love the unions, but I was a union leader, as you know.

01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.700

Tom: So was I.

01:44:57.620 --> 01:45:24.240

Tom: So, last stop, there isn't really that much more to say on it because it is very simple and relatively short, but I think the other thing in Virginia that was notable, as I said, a couple of things I did remember from it were the settings, and I think this being set in England and them being English slash Irish makes a big difference to it.

01:45:25.260 --> 01:45:46.880

Tom: From the selection of cars that are on the streets to the atmosphere of the parks and flats and insides of offices and all those sorts of things, and of course the moments you're in the underground, they really have a very strong British atmosphere to it that was lacking in Virginia.

01:45:46.900 --> 01:45:57.740

Tom: You could see that visually they could come up with some interesting imagery, but none of it had any of the feel of Washington and the other places that it was set in.

01:45:57.940 --> 01:46:09.300

Tom: Not that I've been to Washington, but Twin Peaks, which is inspired by, I don't think that's in Washington either, but that has a really strong sense of place in it.

01:46:09.320 --> 01:46:15.000

Phil: Twin Peaks is set in Washington state, whereas Virginia is closer to Washington DC.

01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:19.720

Tom: And you really get that sense in Twin Peaks, you do not in Virginia.

01:46:19.740 --> 01:46:42.040

Tom: Here there is actually a strong sense of place, and when you end up in the other dimension as well, they can then allow their more dreamy imagination to be utilised well, which was the only real thing that stood out successfully as an aesthetic in Virginia.

01:46:42.420 --> 01:46:49.120

Tom: Here you get the two combined, which creates a more interesting and enjoyable atmosphere than in Virginia.

01:46:49.500 --> 01:47:02.720

Phil: And I think if not tonight as well, I'd be completely surprised if that was not developed by people who have first-hand knowledge of London or England, right?

01:47:02.740 --> 01:47:04.920

Phil: They carried that through extremely well, I thought.

01:47:06.600 --> 01:47:08.200

Tom: I'm pretty sure it is an English game.

01:47:08.380 --> 01:47:09.040

Phil: Has to be.

01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:10.220

Phil: Has to be.

01:47:10.480 --> 01:47:13.440

Phil: Hey, so for Australia, do we have a game?

01:47:13.460 --> 01:47:17.300

Phil: Do we have a game where you're like, oh yeah, these people have to have been to Australia?

01:47:19.000 --> 01:47:21.500

Phil: To have picked that up?

01:47:22.560 --> 01:47:25.500

Phil: Other than cruising the world, you know, with the kangaroos and...

01:47:26.600 --> 01:47:28.360

Tom: I think our game is Alain Noir.

01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:32.580

Phil: That is the most Australian game, I'd have to say.

01:47:32.600 --> 01:47:36.780

Tom: It captures the facial expressions of Australians, I think.

01:47:37.240 --> 01:47:38.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:41.520

Phil: Okay, is it the last word on The Last Stop?

01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:43.220

Tom: That is.

01:47:43.260 --> 01:47:44.240

Tom: We're ready to score?

01:47:44.260 --> 01:47:44.880

Phil: I think we are.

01:47:44.900 --> 01:47:51.000

Phil: If you want to break out the die of destiny, I'll get the soundboard set up to make the rolling die sound effect.

01:47:54.300 --> 01:47:56.400

Tom: That gets, unfortunately, a 3 out of 10.

01:47:56.420 --> 01:47:58.640

Phil: Okay, but we can multiply that by 2.

01:48:00.220 --> 01:48:02.320

Tom: Which may be worse than what Virginia scored.

01:48:02.420 --> 01:48:03.980

Phil: We can multiply that by 2.

01:48:05.420 --> 01:48:10.180

Tom: We can, but we won't because we are ethical game journalists.

01:48:10.200 --> 01:48:11.640

Phil: Game journalists, yes, that's true.

01:48:12.840 --> 01:48:15.460

Tom: So how the die falls is how the die falls.

01:48:16.340 --> 01:48:18.980

Tom: And I did just remember that was not our last stop because...

01:48:19.460 --> 01:48:26.680

Phil: I'm sorry, I just went to our video game site, which has an amazing search tool.

01:48:27.460 --> 01:48:30.740

Phil: Because I wanted to see what you'd given Virginia as a score.

01:48:31.980 --> 01:48:33.540

Phil: You can only guess what I typed in.

01:48:33.560 --> 01:48:37.580

Phil: Now I'll spell it properly.

01:48:41.980 --> 01:48:43.860

Phil: We talked about Virginia a lot.

01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:45.040

Phil: Holy crap.

01:48:45.540 --> 01:48:46.920

Phil: We talked about it a lot.

01:48:47.020 --> 01:49:02.180

Phil: If you go to our site and put in Virginia, you'll not only get reviews of Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf, but also the various podcasts on which we spoke about Virginia.

01:49:02.200 --> 01:49:07.300

Tom: I think that's pretty impressive that we've got reviews by Virginia Woolf on our site.

01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:08.780

Phil: It is cool.

01:49:09.100 --> 01:49:16.440

Phil: But the number one hit on our site when you type in Virginia, spelt correctly, is AOL keyword G-U-P.

01:49:19.680 --> 01:49:28.680

Phil: And it's an article that says, we'll be back to discuss the current state of indie game development scene, the final impressions of Virginia and that dragon cancer.

01:49:28.700 --> 01:49:29.240

Phil: Click here.

01:49:30.520 --> 01:49:36.100

Phil: It says, trigger alert to humans, it sounds like something we'd say.

01:49:38.080 --> 01:49:41.540

Phil: If you're a human, you will be triggered by this podcast.

01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:43.940

Tom: I remember why.

01:49:43.960 --> 01:49:47.020

Tom: I believe it was due to our comments on that dragon cancer.

01:49:48.820 --> 01:49:50.120

Phil: Episode 92.

01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:58.400

Tom: As you can tell from the way Phil Fogg plays games, which is like a dragon, they're very much pro cancer at gameunder.net.

01:49:58.500 --> 01:50:01.080

Phil: Episode 92 is called Christian Cancer Company.

01:50:06.180 --> 01:50:15.780

Phil: Anyway, I think that the last word on the last call or whatever the hell it's called is also the last thing we'll do on this podcast for tonight.

01:50:16.500 --> 01:50:17.320

Phil: So thank you dear...

01:50:17.360 --> 01:50:19.780

Tom: Well, it would be if I had not been playing The Ramp.

01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:21.340

Phil: So thank you dear listener for joining us.

01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:23.140

Tom: Which probably should have been at the beginning of the show.

01:50:23.160 --> 01:50:24.680

Phil: For episode 137.

01:50:24.700 --> 01:50:25.260

Tom: But The Ramp.

01:50:25.340 --> 01:50:26.680

Phil: Of The Game Under Podcast.

01:50:26.700 --> 01:50:27.480

Phil: I've been your host.

01:50:28.420 --> 01:50:29.200

Tom: Yes, The Ramp.

01:50:30.280 --> 01:50:32.580

Phil: And Tom, do you have any last words before we go out?

01:50:33.940 --> 01:50:34.560

Tom: Yes I do.

01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:41.320

Tom: The Ramp is a skateboarding game developed by...

01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:43.480

Phil: Searches on the internet.

01:50:43.500 --> 01:50:43.600

Phil: Yes.

01:50:47.180 --> 01:50:48.200

Tom: Hyperparadise.

01:50:48.260 --> 01:50:50.140

Phil: And you wonder why you don't get free codes.

01:50:51.700 --> 01:50:52.840

Tom: Well, this is a free code.

01:50:52.860 --> 01:50:53.680

Phil: This was a free code.

01:50:54.120 --> 01:50:56.120

Tom: This is why I have to shoehorn it in.

01:50:56.140 --> 01:51:01.920

Phil: But if you actually had paid for the game, I'm pretty sure you would have been invested enough in it that you would know the name of the developer.

01:51:04.760 --> 01:51:05.640

Tom: But perhaps.

01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:07.020

Tom: Perhaps.

01:51:07.040 --> 01:51:08.620

Tom: But you said why I don't get them.

01:51:09.080 --> 01:51:09.400

Phil: Yes.

01:51:09.420 --> 01:51:10.160

Phil: This is why.

01:51:10.360 --> 01:51:11.760

Tom: But this is in fact proof that I do.

01:51:11.880 --> 01:51:13.000

Phil: So you've been playing The Ramp.

01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:14.280

Phil: What platform is it on?

01:51:14.280 --> 01:51:14.560

Tom: Yes.

01:51:14.580 --> 01:51:15.280

Phil: Surely you know that.

01:51:15.300 --> 01:51:17.600

Tom: It is on PC.

01:51:19.180 --> 01:51:20.920

Tom: I know that because that's what I'm playing it on.

01:51:22.520 --> 01:51:24.280

Tom: I think it possibly is only on PC.

01:51:24.300 --> 01:51:25.160

Tom: And it's developed by whom?

01:51:27.420 --> 01:51:28.400

Phil: And where are they based?

01:51:31.160 --> 01:51:31.720

Tom: The Earth.

01:51:35.180 --> 01:51:35.900

Tom: Maybe Finland.

01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:36.100

Tom: Okay.

01:51:40.500 --> 01:51:40.780

Phil: Yes, it is.

01:51:47.100 --> 01:51:47.820

Phil: I think it's a very good game.

01:51:50.960 --> 01:51:52.380

Phil: I think it's a very good game.

01:51:53.560 --> 01:51:54.100

Phil: I think it's a very.

01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:00.860

Phil: And that has brought more interest in it.

01:52:00.900 --> 01:52:06.700

Phil: People have been trying to get Skate remade by EA.

01:52:09.060 --> 01:52:11.140

Phil: And it was developed by Paul Schneff.

01:52:11.900 --> 01:52:17.300

Phil: It has four stages in all, featuring a vert half pipe, a couple of pools, a mega.

01:52:23.880 --> 01:52:33.280

Phil: And certainly, it's probably, as its influence, immediately when I hear about four levels, it reminds me of a game like Skate or Die back on the Commodore 64.

01:52:34.880 --> 01:52:37.380

Phil: So, yeah, so you've been playing this on PC?

01:52:39.340 --> 01:52:39.860

Tom: I have indeed.

01:52:39.900 --> 01:52:42.640

Phil: And that's the only platform on which it is available.

01:52:44.880 --> 01:52:47.480

Phil: And, yeah, so how does it actually control?

01:52:47.500 --> 01:52:49.280

Phil: Are you using a controller or...?

01:52:50.060 --> 01:52:50.800

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:52:50.820 --> 01:52:53.580

Tom: You can use a keyboard, but I would not recommend that.

01:52:54.560 --> 01:52:58.780

Tom: And the way it controls is what makes it so enjoyable and interesting.

01:53:02.040 --> 01:53:09.880

Tom: Essentially, when you begin at the top of a ramp, obviously, regardless of the level, then you drop in.

01:53:10.860 --> 01:53:15.380

Tom: And when you drop in, you want to be...

01:53:16.920 --> 01:53:18.680

Tom: You have a button which forces...

01:53:18.920 --> 01:53:23.520

Tom: which makes the character crouch and put their weight to the front of the board.

01:53:24.900 --> 01:53:29.000

Tom: And that's what you use whenever you're just rolling around pre-jump.

01:53:29.020 --> 01:53:32.340

Tom: So when you land, you want to be crouching a little.

01:53:32.580 --> 01:53:35.980

Tom: Then when you hit the ramp, you want to raise yourself up a bit.

01:53:36.000 --> 01:53:48.980

Tom: Then at the middle, and as you begin to go up the ramp, you then want to release that and straighten out once again, thus giving you a little bit more momentum as you go up the ramp and you're about to jump.

01:53:50.320 --> 01:54:02.260

Tom: So that basic thing creates a really enjoyable and satisfying rhythm that is not there in most skateboarding games that are not necessarily from an isometric perspective.

01:54:02.820 --> 01:54:17.640

Tom: And when you are jumping, you can then obviously rotate in the air and do a variety of simple tricks just using the right thumb stick or grind using, I think, the right bumper.

01:54:17.700 --> 01:54:21.020

Phil: So how do you do when you're up in the air, how do you do a 540?

01:54:21.040 --> 01:54:23.800

Phil: I mean, what is the mechanics for actually achieving that?

01:54:25.360 --> 01:54:34.080

Tom: You hold left or right in the direction you want to spin for the correct amount of time to be able to do that many rotations and land safely.

01:54:34.100 --> 01:54:34.820

Phil: It looks amazing.

01:54:34.860 --> 01:54:36.020

Phil: It looks really fun.

01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:39.520

Phil: How's the sound in it?

01:54:41.020 --> 01:54:42.900

Tom: The sound is very satisfying.

01:54:42.920 --> 01:55:00.100

Tom: The sound of the wheels going over the lip as you jump and land is really chunky and nice, and there's a very gravelly, woody sort of noise as you roll along the pools or the wood of the ramps.

01:55:01.760 --> 01:55:05.760

Phil: In terms of the vibration in the controller, is there much done there?

01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:09.840

Tom: There is a little from what I remember.

01:55:09.860 --> 01:55:19.600

Tom: I don't think they do that much, but if they are doing much, it's enough that it is not that memorable, yet not at all intrusive.

01:55:19.940 --> 01:55:26.140

Tom: I think the main focus on it is definitely in the sound.

01:55:26.280 --> 01:55:28.260

Phil: The name of the game is The Ramp.

01:55:28.280 --> 01:55:32.900

Phil: It's available on Steam for $8.50 Australian, so it's a pretty good pick up.

01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:34.320

Phil: It's developed by HyperParadise.

01:55:34.340 --> 01:55:40.340

Phil: It just came out last week and has overwhelmingly positive reviews from 532 users.

01:55:40.360 --> 01:55:47.220

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it looks very, very interesting, but how much, I mean, is it very sticky?

01:55:47.340 --> 01:55:50.160

Phil: I mean, is this something that you'd go back to necessarily?

01:55:50.440 --> 01:55:53.340

Phil: And what length are the play sessions?

01:55:53.360 --> 01:55:54.840

Phil: Is this a five-minute game?

01:55:55.600 --> 01:55:56.340

Phil: And then you're done?

01:55:56.900 --> 01:55:57.200

Phil: Or...?

01:55:58.660 --> 01:56:04.720

Tom: For me, it is most enjoyable in maybe sessions of 10 minutes to half an hour.

01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:10.720

Tom: But I think it is just enjoyable if you just play it for a few minutes as well, though.

01:56:11.260 --> 01:56:14.460

Phil: And the developer describes it as a digital toy.

01:56:15.660 --> 01:56:16.020

Tom: Yes.

01:56:16.480 --> 01:56:18.700

Tom: Well, there's no career mode or anything like that.

01:56:19.320 --> 01:56:22.240

Tom: There are just, correct, there are just the levels.

01:56:22.260 --> 01:56:25.520

Phil: A lot of games, other than Homefront, not a lot of games have a career mode.

01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:27.060

Tom: Yes.

01:56:28.240 --> 01:56:29.820

Tom: Well, Art of Rally has a career mode.

01:56:29.840 --> 01:56:31.080

Phil: Oh, does it?

01:56:32.240 --> 01:56:33.000

Phil: North or South?

01:56:36.240 --> 01:56:37.580

Tom: West and East as well.

01:56:37.780 --> 01:56:38.800

Phil: There's no West Korea.

01:56:42.540 --> 01:56:43.700

Tom: I said Art of Rally.

01:56:44.460 --> 01:56:44.840

Phil: All right.

01:56:44.860 --> 01:56:46.620

Phil: So do you have anything else to say about the RAM?

01:56:48.420 --> 01:57:03.500

Tom: Yeah, just that, again, while there is no career mode or no scoring, that does actually put the focus on the mechanics and just trying to jump as high as possible and get as much rotation as you can.

01:57:04.720 --> 01:57:22.880

Tom: And the two pool levels can be really satisfying because due to the size of them, depending on how you're going through the levels, it can be really difficult to keep up a good amount of speed to be getting good jumps consistently.

01:57:23.880 --> 01:57:32.820

Tom: So it is tremendously simple, but a really enjoyable and unique take on skateboarding in games.

01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:34.160

Phil: Oh, excellent.

01:57:34.320 --> 01:57:37.540

Phil: And obviously it's a work of passion.

01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:44.960

Phil: It's averaging 9 out of 10 on Steam, amongst Steam users, so that's high praise.

01:57:44.980 --> 01:57:47.100

Phil: And, you know, that's probably why I've been hearing about it.

01:57:47.120 --> 01:57:51.380

Phil: So I'm glad that you highlighted it here at the end of the show.

01:57:51.400 --> 01:57:55.760

Phil: And since I've already done the outro, all I have to say to you is I'm Phil Fogg.

01:57:56.900 --> 01:57:58.760

Tom: And I'm about to roll the die of destiny.

01:57:58.780 --> 01:57:59.440

Phil: On The Ramp.

01:58:03.820 --> 01:58:04.840

Tom: Six out of ten.

01:58:06.240 --> 01:58:09.460

Tom: So the dice has not been kind today.

01:58:09.560 --> 01:58:10.000

Phil: No.

01:58:10.020 --> 01:58:12.240

Phil: It's kinder than it usually is.

01:58:12.280 --> 01:58:16.540

Phil: But still, yeah, not keeping up with the Steam users.

01:58:16.540 --> 01:58:17.760

Phil: But all right.

01:58:18.120 --> 01:58:18.660

Phil: Very good.

01:58:19.420 --> 01:58:20.800

Phil: Could it have been done on mobile?

01:58:21.520 --> 01:58:22.360

Tom: I would say it could.

01:58:22.500 --> 01:58:31.360

Tom: But I think it would have been probably pretty awkward because you could certainly do the basic skating mechanic.

01:58:31.660 --> 01:58:58.540

Tom: I think if you're then adding the rotation as well as tricks is where things become, I think, pretty awkward because the fact that you do have to be paying as much attention to what you're doing between the jumps makes it a lot more complicated than most skateboarding games, which I think would be difficult to translate on a screen.

01:59:00.020 --> 01:59:02.420

Phil: Now all you need to say is, I'm Tom Towers.

01:59:05.040 --> 01:59:05.700

Tom: I'm The Ramp.

Game Under Podcast 136

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

ASMR Segment

0:01:25 Bayonetta 3

0:01:50 Doom Eternal Impressions - Both Hosts

0:03:00 Rock'n'Roll McDonalds

0:05:10 Le White Burger Royale

0:09:50 PGA Tour 2021 Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:10:50 Chicken'n'Cheese w/ Sweet'n'Sour

0:12:40 Vegan Cultural Appropriation

News

0:15:06 Valve's Steamdeck

First Impressions - Phil

0:21:25 Sky: Children of Light - Phil Fogg on Switch

0:23:05 Cheeseburger in Lockdown Paradise

0:42:15 Little Prince Season Impressions - Tom Towers

0:49:15 How Big is Sky?

0:49:45 What's the Hook?

First Impressions - Tom and Phil (Explicit)

0:57:42 The First Tree - PC

0:57:56 But first, Amazon Prime Games

1:04:16 In defense of the makers of this game

Trademark Banter

1:05:30 A Plague's Tale Sequel and Watermelon Gatorade & Soda Stream

1:09:45 Lockdown Land and the Steamdeck vs. Switch OLED

First Impressions - Tom and Phil

01:14:13 Before I Forget - PC

01:21:17 Spoilers from here

First Impressions - Tom

01:26:26 Yakuza: Like a Dragon & Judgement News

Final Impressions - Tom and Phil

01:41:22 Not Tonight - PC and Switch

Outro

01:58:45 What's going on on gameunder.net?

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:12.820

Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode 136 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:13.060 --> 00:00:32.360

Tom: And I've received a little bit of feedback from several people, literally several people on Sky Children of Light that I know, who have for some reason listened to The Game Under Podcast, making up perhaps 50% of our total audience at the moment.

00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:34.960

Phil: Good feedback or bad feedback?

00:00:35.180 --> 00:00:43.000

Tom: Good feedback and of particular note to these people was the ASMR Dorito eating segment.

00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:57.040

Tom: So we're going to open the show with me serving, not just eating, but serving with bag noises and rustling of paper and so forth, some McDonald's items and I will then be eating them on air.

00:00:57.400 --> 00:01:16.000

Tom: And unlike the Endless Backlog Podcast, who basically began, arguably, this trend in games podcasts or Giant Bomb, eating on air, we have had the foresight to refer to this as deliberate segments rather than slovenly unprofessional behaviour.

00:01:16.860 --> 00:01:24.220

Tom: So I think though we did not literally start the trend here, we are taking it to new heights, I believe.

00:01:25.300 --> 00:01:26.240

Phil: As we always do.

00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:29.560

Phil: I was going to ask you about the Endless Podcast.

00:01:29.580 --> 00:01:34.140

Phil: What's more likely to occur first, the Smugcast 3 or Bayonetta 3?

00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:42.560

Tom: I think Smugcast 3 because I have actually been playing small segments of Doom Eternal.

00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:45.840

Tom: What's wrong with Doom Eternal?

00:01:47.020 --> 00:01:48.820

Phil: You just keep rustling away there.

00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:55.920

Tom: Well, actually, the opening has been a little bit disappointing and has not caught my attention like the original did.

00:01:58.340 --> 00:02:05.260

Tom: Which I will give a sneak preview of the upcoming Smugcast at some point, although I do believe it will improve.

00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:25.300

Tom: But the fact that they take away your dodge and other abilities like that from the just insane stuff you were doing by the end of Doom the original remake really makes for a slightly less interesting and awkward opening and the music just does not have the same impact as it did in the original.

00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.820

Phil: Well, I had a particular problem with it and that was because I had to download the entire game.

00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:38.880

Phil: Remember I talked about that, how I had to, well maybe it was off air, but I had to download the whole game and it was ridiculous.

00:02:38.900 --> 00:02:40.260

Phil: It was like 80 gigabytes.

00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:45.220

Phil: Then I had to create a Bethesda account on top of a Microsoft account to log in to play it.

00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:50.740

Phil: Then of course by the time I had done all that, I had to update it with another 6 gig update.

00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.200

Phil: I didn't particularly find the gameplay to be that enjoyable.

00:02:54.220 --> 00:02:58.120

Phil: I know what they were trying to go for, they were trying to make a thinking man's shooter.

00:02:59.220 --> 00:03:03.360

Phil: But back to this McDonald's, is this why the show started 4 hours late?

00:03:03.380 --> 00:03:06.100

Phil: You had to go to McDonald's during lockdown in your region.

00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:16.800

Tom: The queue was massive due to lockdown because people's lockdown exercises consists of 2 hours of waiting in a McDonald's queue, I believe.

00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:25.880

Phil: And we've got to explain that here in this country, during lockdown you're allowed to leave, one person from the household is allowed to leave once a day for essential travel.

00:03:26.220 --> 00:03:31.800

Phil: And so you have used your household's essential travel for this podcast, which I appreciate.

00:03:32.160 --> 00:03:34.100

Phil: So you went to McDonald's and what did you get?

00:03:34.940 --> 00:03:40.400

Tom: Well, I bought chicken nuggets with sweet and sour sauce.

00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:48.000

Tom: A three-piece and zero pieces of chicken nuggets arrived, but there is sweet and sour sauce.

00:03:49.340 --> 00:03:50.060

Phil: So no nuggets?

00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:53.540

Tom: So no nuggets, but sweet and sour sauce for the nuggets.

00:03:55.060 --> 00:04:02.300

Tom: I'm also trying for the first time a chicken and cheese burger with the addition of bacon.

00:04:02.420 --> 00:04:07.260

Tom: And I normally do not like McDonald's chicken burgers or McDonald's bacon.

00:04:08.620 --> 00:04:10.640

Tom: So this could be an interesting experience.

00:04:11.660 --> 00:04:22.480

Tom: And I also got a cheeseburger with extra pickles, extra sauce of both types, no onions and bacon for some reason as well.

00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:30.440

Phil: Yeah, and so we're going to rename the podcast The Leaving Las Vegas Podcast, starring McDonald's, featuring McDonald's foods.

00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:31.200

Phil: What are you doing?

00:04:31.260 --> 00:04:32.460

Phil: Are you trying to kill yourself?

00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:34.240

Tom: Recording on a toilet.

00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:35.680

Phil: You're trying to kill yourself?

00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:43.220

Tom: Well, I have the metabolism that most people dream of, in which I can eat large quantities of...

00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:46.460

Phil: Undigestible food.

00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:58.060

Tom: Undigestible food and not put on any weight, which most people dream of, but they probably do not dream of having such a metabolism if they spent many years underweight.

00:04:58.580 --> 00:05:01.340

Tom: So I would not in fact recommend this metabolism to people.

00:05:01.540 --> 00:05:02.280

Phil: In keeping with...

00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:04.800

Phil: I share that same metabolism, I just choose not to eat.

00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:07.520

Phil: So in keeping...

00:05:08.340 --> 00:05:12.460

Phil: Why are you breaking away from the vegan food that we've been featuring on the podcast?

00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.820

Phil: They do have a vegan burger at McDonald's, I believe, called The White Burger.

00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:18.660

Phil: Did you see The White Burger?

00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:20.920

Tom: No, I did not.

00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:23.140

Phil: That's interesting.

00:05:23.260 --> 00:05:25.180

Phil: So no meatless burgers?

00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:27.500

Tom: Next time I may need to try The White Burger.

00:05:29.140 --> 00:05:32.480

Phil: I'm just checking up that it's called The White Burger and that's not something I dreamt.

00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:35.580

Tom: It sounds like something you dreamt.

00:05:36.260 --> 00:05:38.240

Phil: Well, they had the black and white burgers.

00:05:38.260 --> 00:05:40.480

Phil: I remember they had the black burgers they released in Japan.

00:05:41.280 --> 00:05:43.100

Tom: I see a bun variety.

00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:44.940

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:45.380

Phil: That's it.

00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:48.860

Tom: Their buns are already white bread, though.

00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:51.080

Phil: They are, typically.

00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:53.140

Phil: Okay, go ahead.

00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:53.620

Phil: Eat your...

00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:54.980

Phil: What are we eating first?

00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:55.800

Phil: Are you licking up the...

00:05:55.820 --> 00:05:59.460

Tom: We're going to take a bite of the chicken and cheese burger.

00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:04.500

Tom: Which I have high expectations for the cheese part of it.

00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.720

Phil: Was it creatively spelt, indicating that it's not actually cheese or chicken?

00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:14.140

Tom: No, I think it was chicken, then n, and then cheese.

00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:18.620

Tom: So it was not chick, apostrophe n, apostrophe cheese, unfortunately.

00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:20.840

Phil: Yeah, because then the chicken could be pretty much anything.

00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.440

Tom: I mean, it already is, who knows what.

00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:26.920

Phil: I'm going to suggest it's gluten or soy protein.

00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:32.640

Tom: It's not bad.

00:06:33.760 --> 00:06:35.760

Phil: It's not chicken stuffed with cheese, is it?

00:06:36.620 --> 00:06:42.140

Tom: No, it is a cheese sauce as well as half a slice of cheese.

00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:58.020

Tom: I can confirm that the chicken is essentially tasteless, which I think is a good quality in McDonald's chicken, because if McDonald's chicken tastes of something, it's probably not going to taste of anything good.

00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:10.340

Tom: And there is a slight pepper flavour to the fried coating, which goes nicely with the also essentially flavourless cheese sauce.

00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:22.460

Tom: So I think for a chicken burger from McDonald's with a cheese sauce, what you're looking for is a lack of flavour, I believe, or at least I am anyway.

00:07:24.020 --> 00:07:26.120

Tom: So I would say that is a success.

00:07:26.140 --> 00:07:26.980

Phil: Mission accomplished.

00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:27.620

Tom: Yes.

00:07:28.020 --> 00:07:32.240

Tom: I will now take a bite of it, including some of the bacon.

00:07:32.260 --> 00:07:34.860

Phil: Before you do that, I've got to say, what would you call their...

00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:36.880

Phil: I'm obviously not writing.

00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:40.180

Phil: It's not the white burger, but what would you call a...

00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:43.320

Phil: If you had to come up with a meat-free burger for McDonald's, what would you call it?

00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:52.300

Tom: Probably you wouldn't need to change the name, because I think it's up for debate how much meat they generally contain in the first place.

00:07:52.320 --> 00:07:52.620

Tom: Isn't it?

00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:54.120

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

00:07:54.260 --> 00:07:59.220

Phil: But I think actually what they're actually calling it is actually the best name.

00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:01.080

Phil: I can't think of anything better, which is rare.

00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.300

Phil: McPlant.

00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:04.580

Tom: McPlant, yes.

00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:06.360

Phil: That's brilliant.

00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:11.680

Tom: I will now take this second bite, including the bacon.

00:08:11.700 --> 00:08:12.420

Phil: Okay, here it goes.

00:08:16.180 --> 00:08:17.240

Tom: McDonald's bacon?

00:08:18.020 --> 00:08:19.840

Tom: I think this is actually a very good slice.

00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.640

Tom: There is a slight salty and sweet bacon-like flavour to it.

00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:33.000

Tom: And looking at it, it does not consist of 90% fat.

00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.540

Tom: So that's an above average slice of bacon.

00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:52.340

Tom: I would recommend adding it to this chicken and cheese burger, as you then also, in addition to the slightly peppery flavour of the coating of the chicken, have a slightly meat-based flavour to it as well.

00:08:53.680 --> 00:09:00.800

Tom: Which the saltiness also, I think, draws out a very slight sort of milky flavour of the cheese.

00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:05.260

Tom: So it is a worthy addition to the burger that I would recommend.

00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.640

Phil: There's a quiet grace and dignity to your review of the bacon at McDonald's.

00:09:10.760 --> 00:09:11.400

Phil: I'll say that.

00:09:13.900 --> 00:09:16.700

Phil: So I've got to say, how much did all of this cost?

00:09:17.420 --> 00:09:20.300

Phil: Like, I'm guessing that you dropped 30 bucks on this meal.

00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:29.560

Tom: Well, with the addition of the bacon to the McChicken and Cheese Burger, I think it was, the burger was $5.75.

00:09:31.900 --> 00:09:39.280

Tom: I think the total price was $28, but my sister also bought medium chips and a fillet of fish.

00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:43.700

Phil: Goodness gracious, you're going for the Noah Ark special.

00:09:44.620 --> 00:09:45.920

Phil: You're killing all the animals.

00:09:46.380 --> 00:09:47.040

Tom: That's right.

00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:52.600

Phil: I should say about $28 while you get your next food item ready.

00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:57.500

Phil: I was sitting down to buy something, and there were three games that were $28.

00:09:57.520 --> 00:10:05.040

Phil: It was The Last of Us 2, PGA Tour 2021, and another game I can't remember.

00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:11.520

Phil: And so I went with PGA Tour 2021 because I thought, you know, 28 bucks for the Switch.

00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:12.620

Phil: I figured this is good.

00:10:12.640 --> 00:10:15.040

Phil: I need a current-gen golf game.

00:10:15.560 --> 00:10:16.440

Phil: Absolutely horrible.

00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:21.340

Phil: I played Links on the original Xbox, and it had better graphics.

00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:25.700

Phil: And besides that, it requires online only.

00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:28.280

Tom: Well, it is a modern game.

00:10:28.420 --> 00:10:30.020

Phil: Yeah, but it's a Switch.

00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:33.020

Phil: You want to play portably, and the Switch doesn't have a SIM card or anything.

00:10:33.040 --> 00:10:40.700

Phil: And then the career mode was limited, extremely limited to basically a training session.

00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:43.120

Phil: It was just absolutely terrible.

00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:43.880

Phil: I sold it back.

00:10:43.880 --> 00:10:46.800

Phil: I think I sold it back on eBay for like 20 bucks.

00:10:47.300 --> 00:10:51.520

Phil: So I would have been better off doing your Noah's Ark experience at McDonald's.

00:10:52.160 --> 00:10:53.060

Tom: I think you would have.

00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:58.040

Tom: And there is actually one last thing that I have to do with this chicken and cheese burger.

00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.800

Tom: And that is make use of the sweet and sour sauce.

00:11:03.620 --> 00:11:06.740

Tom: And dip the burger in the sweet and sour sauce.

00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:12.120

Tom: And the area which I will dip in will contain all the components of the burger.

00:11:12.300 --> 00:11:18.680

Tom: The half a slice of cheese, the bacon, the cheese sauce, the McChicken and the bun.

00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:24.320

Phil: And for our English as a second language listeners, we will use the word agglomeration.

00:11:24.520 --> 00:11:25.520

Phil: You can go look that up.

00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:29.020

Phil: What Tom is doing is an agglomeration.

00:11:35.479 --> 00:11:37.439

Phil: Hopefully, there's a defibrillator nearby.

00:11:38.479 --> 00:11:40.959

Phil: Otherwise, it's gonna be the shortest episode we've ever recorded.

00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:43.299

Tom: I have to say that works quite well.

00:11:44.259 --> 00:11:59.479

Tom: Again, with most McDonald's burgers in general, the addition of flavors of things like sauces as opposed to meat or cheese or the bun, usually is a great addition.

00:11:59.599 --> 00:12:07.379

Tom: And you do end, the first thing you note is the, I wouldn't say sourness of the sauce, but the sweetness.

00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:08.879

Tom: It is very sugary sauce.

00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:16.379

Tom: And as you were chewing and that sort of melts away, you end up getting a little bit of the taste of the bacon.

00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:31.419

Tom: And the aftertaste at the end is sort of a combination of the pepperiness of the coating of the patty, the sweet sort of saltiness of the bacon combined with the sauce.

00:12:31.439 --> 00:12:34.279

Tom: It's almost like maple syrup on bacon.

00:12:35.059 --> 00:12:39.719

Tom: So I do think that that is a worthy addition to the burger.

00:12:40.119 --> 00:12:44.299

Phil: Too bad they couldn't come up with a better name though, like McPlant.

00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.899

Phil: Vegan food is full of these great names.

00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.379

Phil: Like there's a fake bacon called Faken.

00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:51.819

Tom: Faken Bacon.

00:12:51.979 --> 00:12:52.779

Phil: Faken Bacon.

00:12:53.199 --> 00:12:56.439

Phil: You've got chili non-carn.

00:12:57.619 --> 00:12:59.259

Phil: You know, there's plenty of examples of that.

00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:16.979

Phil: I've got to say, as a long time vegan, I'm feeling my culture's being appropriated because I went to a little small country town the other day at a petrol station and they were advertising a vegan drumstick ice cream, which I think you've reviewed on the show before.

00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:18.079

Tom: I believe I have.

00:13:18.179 --> 00:13:22.119

Phil: They were advertising their eight different varieties of vegan meat pies.

00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:33.119

Phil: And then they had a meal deal that had the two things with an alcohol-free Heineken for $20.

00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.879

Tom: Is alcohol-free items some form of veganism I'm aware of?

00:13:37.899 --> 00:13:38.519

Phil: Well, it's not.

00:13:38.539 --> 00:13:40.999

Phil: It's just they're taking all this fakeness to an extreme.

00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:49.039

Phil: I mean, you could eat your fake vegan meat pie, have your fake vegan drumstick, wash it down with a fake Heineken.

00:13:49.979 --> 00:13:51.979

Phil: And Heineken's a bad enough beer to start with.

00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:55.279

Phil: But it's like, you know, this is a small country town.

00:13:55.659 --> 00:13:59.659

Phil: It used to be, to be a vegan used to be a lot of sacrifice, man.

00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:04.159

Phil: It used to mean making your own tofu, buying soybeans, you know.

00:14:05.319 --> 00:14:06.279

Phil: Growing dreads.

00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:07.539

Phil: It took a lot of work.

00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:14.699

Phil: And now, you know, you can just become a vegan and eat out of a gas station.

00:14:15.499 --> 00:14:18.319

Phil: Or go to a McDonald's, I guess, where they've got the McPlant.

00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:21.559

Tom: I'm looking forward to Barnaby Joyce growing some dreadlocks.

00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:25.199

Phil: All right.

00:14:25.219 --> 00:14:28.079

Phil: Well, is that the rest of the ASMR?

00:14:28.099 --> 00:14:29.739

Phil: Is that the end of the ASMR section?

00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.259

Tom: We may return to the cheeseburger later on.

00:14:32.319 --> 00:14:43.679

Tom: But this whole preamble was in fact part of I promised that we would have to return to your totally absurd statement that Chinese soft power is identical to American.

00:14:44.899 --> 00:14:52.659

Tom: And I think that I have in my meal proven the just total absurdity of that statement.

00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.679

Tom: And I think I can rest my case there.

00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:00.539

Phil: Well, I could just as easily go to a Chinese restaurant and eat some Mugu Gai Pan next episode.

00:15:02.179 --> 00:15:04.179

Tom: But you couldn't go to a Chinese McDonald's.

00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:05.399

Phil: That's true.

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.079

Phil: I couldn't.

00:15:07.119 --> 00:15:07.599

Phil: All right.

00:15:07.999 --> 00:15:09.159

Phil: So what are we going to talk about?

00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:13.219

Phil: I think probably the number one story right now is Steamdeck.

00:15:13.699 --> 00:15:16.739

Phil: Steam has had a few forays into hardware.

00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:17.939

Phil: Do we wish to name them here?

00:15:19.339 --> 00:15:21.459

Phil: They had the steam controller.

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:23.559

Tom: There's the steam box.

00:15:23.579 --> 00:15:24.059

Phil: Fail.

00:15:24.339 --> 00:15:24.639

Phil: Right.

00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:25.419

Tom: Yep.

00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.579

Tom: Was there anything else?

00:15:27.179 --> 00:15:34.719

Phil: Well, they've they've obviously had a very successful release with the with their VR gear, their partnership with HTC.

00:15:35.619 --> 00:15:37.879

Phil: So they've they've righted the ship significantly.

00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:44.979

Phil: I mean, their VR is considered, you know, among the best in that, you know, that range, that price range up there.

00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:55.579

Phil: So they've announced basically what looks like a a Nintendo Switch that basically you can play your Steam library on.

00:15:55.599 --> 00:16:01.499

Phil: And it uses a Linux kernel, I guess, or something, or some sort of translation program called Proton.

00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:03.939

Phil: So it's not a Windows based device.

00:16:04.439 --> 00:16:06.079

Phil: That's kind of intriguing to me.

00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:12.759

Phil: Comes in three different flavors, most of them having to do with memory size and storage.

00:16:13.599 --> 00:16:15.859

Phil: But the graphics are the same on all three models.

00:16:16.319 --> 00:16:21.659

Phil: 64 gig of storage, 256 gig and 512 gig of storage.

00:16:22.319 --> 00:16:26.619

Tom: And we should add that you can install Windows on the device if you so choose.

00:16:26.739 --> 00:16:27.339

Phil: Absolutely.

00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:29.739

Phil: Yep, it's a completely open box.

00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:34.999

Phil: I don't know how you'd go about licensing the Windows that you'd install on a device, but I guess it's really just a PC.

00:16:35.479 --> 00:16:36.979

Phil: So that answers that.

00:16:38.319 --> 00:16:39.259

Phil: Ranging everywhere from...

00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.919

Tom: Obviously, you would license it with a $2 code from eBay.

00:16:42.939 --> 00:16:43.459

Phil: That's right.

00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:51.439

Phil: And pricing, it's $400 US to $650 US, depending on the storage you want.

00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:56.719

Phil: You know, there's other things that come with those tiers, like carrying cases and other things like that.

00:16:58.419 --> 00:17:02.119

Phil: Visually, I mean, from the appearance, it looks very comfortable.

00:17:02.139 --> 00:17:02.839

Phil: It looks good.

00:17:02.859 --> 00:17:03.779

Phil: It looks substantial.

00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.819

Phil: Sounds like a win to me.

00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:11.279

Tom: Well, it is huge when you say it looks substantial.

00:17:11.299 --> 00:17:12.659

Tom: It's 30 centimetres.

00:17:12.899 --> 00:17:16.819

Phil: Yeah, which is not that much bigger than a Switch.

00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:19.979

Phil: You know, it's really not that much bigger than a Switch.

00:17:20.179 --> 00:17:21.319

Phil: And, you know, it's got some...

00:17:21.339 --> 00:17:22.959

Tom: Isn't a Switch around 20 centimetres?

00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:24.399

Phil: No, no, no.

00:17:24.679 --> 00:17:25.119

Phil: Oh, no.

00:17:25.939 --> 00:17:26.479

Phil: No, no, no.

00:17:26.539 --> 00:17:30.779

Phil: I don't know how big it is, but it's, you know, it's comparable.

00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.479

Phil: It's not like you're going to be holding this thing and it's like, oh, my God, how big is this, you know?

00:17:36.239 --> 00:17:42.019

Phil: Both of them have a 7-inch screen, if that sort of gives you ideas to the size of the total console.

00:17:44.219 --> 00:17:48.379

Phil: But, and obviously it doesn't have removable Joy-Cons on the side.

00:17:48.499 --> 00:17:49.159

Phil: They're fixed.

00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:56.779

Phil: So just as the Switch kind of copied the Nvidia Shield and is powered by Nvidia, this is kind of the PC version.

00:17:57.099 --> 00:18:00.879

Phil: Again, it's kind of a return basically or continuation of that kind of technology.

00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.599

Phil: Looks very attractive to me.

00:18:03.619 --> 00:18:05.739

Phil: It's unfortunately not available in our region.

00:18:05.999 --> 00:18:07.739

Phil: And I blame the ACCC for that.

00:18:08.719 --> 00:18:10.559

Tom: And I will have to correct you there.

00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:15.639

Tom: The Switch Lite, which I assume is the same dimensions.

00:18:15.679 --> 00:18:16.239

Phil: Yeah.

00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:18.079

Tom: So that's, is it actually smaller?

00:18:18.099 --> 00:18:20.279

Phil: I think it is smaller than the main one.

00:18:20.779 --> 00:18:29.019

Tom: I thought the Lite naming was from the fact that it does not have a dock.

00:18:29.639 --> 00:18:31.159

Tom: As opposed to it being smaller.

00:18:31.179 --> 00:18:31.939

Phil: It didn't have a dock.

00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:35.259

Phil: The Joy-Cons aren't removable and it was slightly cheaper.

00:18:37.939 --> 00:18:39.819

Phil: Though it had better storage and battery life.

00:18:40.379 --> 00:18:40.799

Tom: I see.

00:18:41.219 --> 00:18:48.699

Tom: It is in fact just over one inch shorter in the width than the Switch.

00:18:48.719 --> 00:18:51.199

Tom: So how many centimeters is an inch?

00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.239

Phil: 12 inches.

00:18:52.719 --> 00:18:54.059

Phil: So 12 inches is...

00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:54.659

Phil: Oh, I'm sorry.

00:18:54.679 --> 00:18:57.219

Phil: An inch is two and a half centimeters.

00:18:57.239 --> 00:18:58.839

Phil: 12 inches is 30 centimeters.

00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:09.339

Tom: So the Switch is 9.4 inches, which is around, I believe, 23 centimeters?

00:19:10.199 --> 00:19:13.479

Phil: About 24 centimeters, yeah.

00:19:13.499 --> 00:19:16.939

Tom: So 6 centimeters is a reasonable increase in size.

00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:21.939

Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's still less than my little finger.

00:19:22.899 --> 00:19:24.179

Tom: And we know what that implies.

00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:28.379

Tom: You have a very long middle finger, obviously.

00:19:28.399 --> 00:19:29.119

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:19:29.159 --> 00:19:30.019

Phil: A very long one.

00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:31.519

Phil: I'm using both of them right now, actually.

00:19:31.539 --> 00:19:37.839

Tom: Which is very lucky for you because it compensates for your ordinary problems elsewhere.

00:19:37.939 --> 00:19:38.799

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:19:39.739 --> 00:19:41.499

Phil: Look, this is a very compelling thing to me.

00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.979

Phil: I would have pre-ordered one yesterday.

00:19:43.179 --> 00:19:44.239

Phil: Like I said, I blame the ACCC.

00:19:44.719 --> 00:19:50.319

Phil: They successfully sued Steam for their return policies breaking Australian law.

00:19:51.419 --> 00:19:54.279

Phil: You can look up that story at gameunder.net.

00:19:55.299 --> 00:20:02.759

Tom: I don't know if you really can blame them though because they also did not really do a release for the Steam Controller either.

00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:05.399

Tom: Nor the...

00:20:05.979 --> 00:20:06.639

Phil: Steam Link.

00:20:06.919 --> 00:20:07.639

Tom: Steam Link.

00:20:07.659 --> 00:20:07.939

Phil: Yeah.

00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.539

Tom: And I don't think the VAL index has officially been released in Australia either.

00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.999

Tom: So I think this is entirely on Valve.

00:20:16.179 --> 00:20:16.619

Phil: Okay.

00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:19.879

Phil: Which I'm happy to throw under the bus.

00:20:19.899 --> 00:20:20.819

Phil: They haven't been a great company.

00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:26.279

Phil: But I tell you what, this would make me Steam loyal in terms of my PC purchases.

00:20:28.099 --> 00:20:39.119

Phil: Because with the prospect of being able to play them portably, or on my TV, because it is going to have a dock at some time in the future.

00:20:39.499 --> 00:20:45.479

Phil: Or they said if you don't want to wait for our dock, you can just use USB-C and HDMI and do it yourself.

00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:50.519

Phil: So, would you lukewarm about this?

00:20:50.539 --> 00:20:52.359

Phil: Would you get this thing?

00:20:53.619 --> 00:21:12.699

Tom: Well, given that I have a computer, it's relatively redundant to me because there is of course the relatively unusable Steam Link functionality that you can use on any device, like an iPad or whatever else.

00:21:14.159 --> 00:21:25.479

Tom: And if I were to be getting a similar console to that, the Switch would obviously be the first choice by far due to the Nintendo games on it.

00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:30.159

Phil: And Sky, also on Switch, in HD.

00:21:30.999 --> 00:21:31.799

Tom: It is indeed.

00:21:32.219 --> 00:21:34.059

Tom: And I believe you have even played it.

00:21:34.159 --> 00:21:34.659

Phil: Yeah, I have.

00:21:36.379 --> 00:21:41.439

Tom: We are yet to play together, though, because you have failed to work out how to add me.

00:21:41.679 --> 00:21:42.639

Phil: I have failed to...

00:21:43.159 --> 00:22:00.939

Phil: Well, basically, it's asking me for my Nintendo username and password, which basically shoots me in the foot every time I try to buy anything on the Nintendo Switch as well, because I can't remember it, so every time I have to do it, I have to change my password, which means going to the PC, and it's a big old rig in my roll.

00:22:02.059 --> 00:22:07.219

Tom: Did you look in settings to see if there was an option to create a link for people to add you?

00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:13.479

Tom: Because I don't think you need to have linked your account to your Sky account before you can do that.

00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:32.639

Phil: Because what I did was I also downloaded it on my Android phone, and tried to do something with that as well, because the Switch model does give you a QR code, as they're now called, to scan from your Android device so that you can link your account.

00:22:32.659 --> 00:22:33.619

Phil: So that's what I'm trying to do.

00:22:33.639 --> 00:22:46.559

Phil: I'm trying to link the Android Sky instance with my Switch one, so that when I am a more active player and I'm playing it, it's my experience I can build while I'm on the go as well.

00:22:46.879 --> 00:22:54.239

Tom: And you should be able to easily make a barcode for other people to add you on the Android phone.

00:22:55.779 --> 00:22:56.119

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:22:56.139 --> 00:22:57.079

Phil: Well, I will figure it out.

00:22:57.099 --> 00:22:59.219

Phil: I'll figure it out this week, no doubt.

00:23:00.579 --> 00:23:03.299

Phil: Do we want to talk about my impressions of Sky right now?

00:23:03.739 --> 00:23:04.579

Phil: Would make sense, I guess.

00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:05.039

Tom: Surely we do.

00:23:05.099 --> 00:23:05.439

Tom: Yeah.

00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:15.299

Tom: But first, I will take a bite of this cheeseburger the moment everyone has been waiting for with baited breath.

00:23:16.739 --> 00:23:32.679

Tom: And I should give my final thoughts on the chicken cheeseburger as many of you do not comment on, I think, the arguably the most important factors of a meal, particularly fast food like this.

00:23:32.899 --> 00:23:37.179

Tom: And that was indeed actually surprisingly filling.

00:23:37.379 --> 00:23:43.499

Tom: I do not feel any need to eat this cheeseburger after having eaten that, but I'm going to anyway.

00:23:44.439 --> 00:23:51.879

Tom: And being so high in fat and sugar and salt, it has also given me an immediate energy boost.

00:23:52.399 --> 00:23:56.199

Tom: And I will be spending that energy on eating this cheeseburger.

00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:04.559

Tom: But overall, I would say that is a pretty successful chicken burger, especially for McDonald's.

00:24:04.719 --> 00:24:12.199

Tom: And what you would be looking for, for a $5 burger to keep you going throughout the day.

00:24:13.159 --> 00:24:16.739

Phil: So again, homeless people, you need to just get together $5 a day.

00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:17.839

Phil: Come on, how hard is it?

00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:20.359

Tom: Exactly.

00:24:21.139 --> 00:24:22.879

Phil: You know, just go to McDonald's.

00:24:23.879 --> 00:24:24.779

Tom: Problem solved.

00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:25.639

Phil: You'll be loving it.

00:24:27.339 --> 00:24:28.739

Phil: It's good that we finally got a sponsor.

00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:29.459

Phil: I've got to say that.

00:24:30.679 --> 00:24:32.879

Phil: I'm not quite sure the ASMR is worth it though.

00:24:34.479 --> 00:24:35.299

Tom: So here we go.

00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:42.939

Tom: The Bacon Cheese Extra Sauce and Extra Pickle Burger.

00:24:56.117 --> 00:25:06.457

Tom: And to their credit, there is essentially an entire layer of pickles across the full breadth of the patty and cheese.

00:25:06.497 --> 00:25:10.117

Phil: And by pickles, you mean like the sliced gherkins, right?

00:25:10.137 --> 00:25:12.337

Phil: Not pickled, like chopped up pickle relish?

00:25:13.357 --> 00:25:17.137

Tom: Correct, this isn't kimchi, unfortunately.

00:25:17.997 --> 00:25:18.877

Tom: That would be interesting.

00:25:19.637 --> 00:25:30.277

Tom: But yes, the bacon, due to the copious amount of sauce, as well as the pickles, I don't think you can really taste it that much.

00:25:32.277 --> 00:25:34.217

Tom: Though it is there in the aftertaste.

00:25:35.157 --> 00:25:55.117

Tom: And I would recommend always adding extra sauce to a cheeseburger, because otherwise you are likely to end up with a tiny dollop of mustard in the centre of the top bun, and maybe a streak of ketchup across the middle.

00:25:56.177 --> 00:26:00.197

Tom: So I would say that's another successful McDonald's item today.

00:26:00.217 --> 00:26:06.937

Phil: Not very successful, because when I release my next Brickpot album, I'm gonna call it There in the Aftertaste.

00:26:08.077 --> 00:26:09.017

Phil: That's wonderful.

00:26:10.537 --> 00:26:11.257

Phil: That's great.

00:26:11.277 --> 00:26:15.297

Phil: That's gonna be my Oasis song type album, There in the Aftertaste.

00:26:15.917 --> 00:26:17.077

Tom: I'm looking forward to it.

00:26:17.097 --> 00:26:18.837

Tom: That will be our new theme song, I hope.

00:26:18.857 --> 00:26:19.877

Phil: Yeah, could be.

00:26:20.977 --> 00:26:23.797

Tom: Could also be the title of this episode.

00:26:23.817 --> 00:26:24.397

Phil: Yeah, could be.

00:26:24.457 --> 00:26:24.977

Phil: Could be.

00:26:26.497 --> 00:26:28.577

Phil: Look, I've been playing my Switch a lot.

00:26:28.717 --> 00:26:34.337

Phil: I've been playing, just back to children, well, that's what it's called, right?

00:26:34.357 --> 00:26:37.057

Phil: Sky Children of Light.

00:26:37.077 --> 00:26:41.737

Phil: The game by That Game Company, Genova Chens Endeavor.

00:26:41.797 --> 00:26:53.157

Phil: And as we talked about, I guess it hasn't quite been two years that since this game, Sky Children of Light, came out on first iPhone and then Android.

00:26:54.017 --> 00:26:54.317

Phil: And now-

00:26:54.337 --> 00:27:02.217

Tom: I think it may just have got to two years because there is, I believe, currently a birthday celebration going on in game.

00:27:02.357 --> 00:27:05.457

Phil: Okay, and some sort of new season as well has been advertised.

00:27:05.917 --> 00:27:07.217

Tom: Yes, the Little Prince.

00:27:07.557 --> 00:27:11.357

Phil: Yeah, yeah, so it's, well, we've got to say it's been released on Switch.

00:27:11.377 --> 00:27:14.117

Phil: And I've been talking about how I can't wait for it to be released on Switch.

00:27:14.497 --> 00:27:19.097

Phil: So when Tom called me when this was first announced about 1 a.m.

00:27:19.117 --> 00:27:21.997

Phil: in the morning and said, hey, it's being released on Switch.

00:27:22.037 --> 00:27:24.537

Phil: I really appreciated getting that information.

00:27:25.517 --> 00:27:27.057

Phil: And I told him that I will be waiting.

00:27:27.317 --> 00:27:29.617

Phil: I will go get a physical copy because that's how I roll.

00:27:29.697 --> 00:27:31.117

Phil: I want a physical copy of the game.

00:27:32.037 --> 00:27:34.337

Phil: And he said, yeah, not going to happen probably.

00:27:35.677 --> 00:27:42.157

Phil: When I found out that it was free to play, obviously there's not going to be a physical copy.

00:27:42.357 --> 00:27:43.637

Phil: Maybe they will release one.

00:27:43.917 --> 00:27:46.197

Phil: They do that sometimes down here in Australia.

00:27:46.197 --> 00:27:51.337

Tom: But you can buy a $120 umbrella that is based on an umbrella in the game.

00:27:52.257 --> 00:27:53.677

Phil: Is it an umbrella or a parasol?

00:27:54.717 --> 00:27:55.937

Tom: It is an umbrella.

00:27:57.357 --> 00:27:59.137

Phil: So it's free to play.

00:27:59.597 --> 00:28:01.057

Phil: And so I downloaded it.

00:28:01.257 --> 00:28:03.637

Phil: It was quite a reasonable download.

00:28:03.657 --> 00:28:04.557

Phil: I'm happy to report.

00:28:04.937 --> 00:28:09.497

Phil: And one of the outstanding things about this Switch release is that it is in HD.

00:28:09.957 --> 00:28:12.697

Phil: So it looks absolutely beautiful when you dock the Switch.

00:28:13.737 --> 00:28:16.097

Phil: Has wonderful frame rate.

00:28:16.277 --> 00:28:17.957

Phil: I couldn't complain about that at all.

00:28:18.557 --> 00:28:26.737

Phil: And it is like it has the appearance of a, of not a big budget game, but a well published game.

00:28:26.797 --> 00:28:32.657

Phil: Like a game that's got a lot of thought put into it in terms of its craftsmanship.

00:28:33.117 --> 00:28:41.157

Phil: If you didn't know, you would think it was something that that game company had made for, you know, Sony, when it was under Sony's patronage.

00:28:42.877 --> 00:28:48.977

Tom: It's very much like I would say an indie, PS3 era look to it.

00:28:49.057 --> 00:28:49.757

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:28:49.777 --> 00:28:52.337

Phil: And in fact, you know, there's a lot in the game.

00:28:52.357 --> 00:29:01.937

Phil: The first impression of the game is that this is a very much a lot like Journey in its aesthetic and its tone.

00:29:02.837 --> 00:29:08.677

Phil: And many of the game play elements like, you know, surfing on the sand, you know, is there.

00:29:08.697 --> 00:29:17.857

Phil: And it's obviously also incorporated elements of flight that was a feature of the earlier games like Flow and Flower more particularly.

00:29:19.657 --> 00:29:22.437

Tom: Well, flight was also in Journey as well.

00:29:22.617 --> 00:29:23.977

Phil: Okay, I'd forgotten that.

00:29:24.637 --> 00:29:30.137

Tom: Yes, but not to the same degree as in Sky at all.

00:29:30.817 --> 00:29:35.457

Tom: And with a greater focus on gliding than flying, although it was indeed possible to fly.

00:29:36.177 --> 00:29:46.377

Phil: I think if you look at the body of work that that game company has put together, the one thing that is very evident is that they ascribe to incrementalism.

00:29:47.217 --> 00:29:53.017

Phil: Everything they make builds on the next thing that they make that builds up to the next thing that they make.

00:29:53.197 --> 00:29:58.617

Phil: And this is very much evolution of Journey.

00:29:58.697 --> 00:30:03.977

Phil: Journey was very limited in terms of its online component.

00:30:04.897 --> 00:30:12.817

Phil: The thing that was quite revolutionary about that was that you could be playing and not really know that the other party was online.

00:30:14.457 --> 00:30:20.637

Phil: So I was very impressed with the game throughout.

00:30:20.657 --> 00:30:26.117

Phil: There's no but coming here.

00:30:26.137 --> 00:30:38.697

Phil: Not a lot of the game is explained, and obviously, because it doesn't come with an instruction manual, because nothing comes with an instruction manual, there's not a lot of hand holding in terms of getting you up to speed as to what to do.

00:30:39.137 --> 00:30:45.197

Phil: Though things become very clear, like you see a candle, so you just keep pressing buttons until you figure out how to light it.

00:30:46.297 --> 00:30:47.237

Phil: And that does something.

00:30:47.477 --> 00:30:50.217

Phil: That you're releasing the spirits of children, I believe.

00:30:51.937 --> 00:30:54.897

Phil: Of a long gone civilisation.

00:30:55.657 --> 00:31:00.037

Tom: Well, you eventually do that to begin with, you're reliving their memories, I believe.

00:31:00.777 --> 00:31:01.117

Phil: Yes.

00:31:01.737 --> 00:31:05.157

Tom: And you do then release them at the end of the level though, that is correct.

00:31:05.177 --> 00:31:05.417

Phil: Right.

00:31:05.437 --> 00:31:05.657

Tom: Yes.

00:31:06.457 --> 00:31:15.297

Phil: The stages, it basically is like a 3D platformer in that you're exploring a very large 3D environment and finding things.

00:31:15.477 --> 00:31:18.337

Phil: So I wouldn't say it's a collectathon.

00:31:18.517 --> 00:31:22.977

Phil: It's not as bad as say Donkey Kong 64, for example.

00:31:23.897 --> 00:31:30.457

Phil: But to someone who's looking for the game in the game, you know, you're looking at, okay, well, what am I doing?

00:31:30.637 --> 00:31:37.417

Phil: And just as in Journey, they'll use the camera to indicate the direction that you're supposed to be going at the very start.

00:31:38.377 --> 00:31:43.017

Phil: And then from there on, you basically go your own way to figure it out.

00:31:43.037 --> 00:31:45.697

Phil: And as you go, you realize, oh, I can do this, I can do that.

00:31:45.697 --> 00:31:50.557

Phil: They give you these micro stories, I'd say, not really side stories or side missions.

00:31:50.577 --> 00:31:52.597

Phil: They're like these very small-

00:31:52.617 --> 00:31:53.297

Tom: Little vignettes.

00:31:53.317 --> 00:31:54.377

Phil: Yes, exactly.

00:31:56.437 --> 00:32:05.977

Phil: And it does harken a little bit back to The Last Guardian, the work of the fellow who did Ico.

00:32:07.217 --> 00:32:10.357

Phil: You can see the influence of that in this game.

00:32:10.377 --> 00:32:11.577

Tom: I think of Ico as well.

00:32:12.317 --> 00:32:13.317

Phil: Yeah, very much.

00:32:13.717 --> 00:32:14.777

Phil: And you can see the influences there.

00:32:14.797 --> 00:32:20.457

Tom: And earlier fan art for it, there was also a lot of influence of Shadow of the Colossus.

00:32:21.377 --> 00:32:31.957

Tom: And in one of the later levels and the finale level, you can certainly see that that still carried over a little bit into the final game as well.

00:32:33.017 --> 00:32:47.077

Phil: I'd say that the best part of the game is its tone because there's a lightness in play, but it's balanced by a solemnity of the environment and what you're doing.

00:32:49.197 --> 00:32:58.077

Phil: There seem, I mean, it's almost funereal in terms of your role in the environment, and you do seem very alone.

00:32:58.297 --> 00:33:03.557

Phil: And that's where kind of the twist comes in is because you're not alone.

00:33:03.957 --> 00:33:10.537

Phil: So, you know, this is an MMO in all forms.

00:33:12.977 --> 00:33:14.017

Phil: In terms of the...

00:33:14.257 --> 00:33:16.317

Tom: Have you made any friends in the game yet?

00:33:16.337 --> 00:33:19.857

Phil: Well, I'll get to that, but I just want to dwell for a moment on the lightness of it.

00:33:19.917 --> 00:33:28.997

Phil: And the lightness is attributed not only to, well, the use of light, which is wonderful in the graphics, but also the controls.

00:33:29.217 --> 00:33:31.377

Phil: I mean, the controls are top notch.

00:33:31.377 --> 00:33:37.157

Phil: They're first party Nintendo, first party Sony, tight.

00:33:37.497 --> 00:33:40.217

Phil: Like, it's just really well done.

00:33:40.257 --> 00:33:52.457

Phil: Every movement that you do, if you are walking in a direction and then you immediately want to turn in the other direction, the animation is great because it doesn't just turn you around.

00:33:52.577 --> 00:33:59.257

Phil: It's almost got this leaning tower kind of physics to the character's body and the way that he moves.

00:33:59.277 --> 00:34:01.557

Phil: It just seems so natural and real.

00:34:03.237 --> 00:34:07.177

Phil: And as I said, just the controls are so tight in a good positive way.

00:34:07.777 --> 00:34:10.617

Phil: They do everything that you think should be...

00:34:12.117 --> 00:34:21.117

Phil: Everything works the way that you would expect it should, except for the flight, but it fortunately does give you the ability to invert.

00:34:21.857 --> 00:34:24.617

Phil: So, and the controls...

00:34:24.637 --> 00:34:27.137

Tom: You mean in terms of what direction you're turning?

00:34:29.437 --> 00:34:31.997

Phil: I'm from the old school in terms of flight sims.

00:34:32.337 --> 00:34:36.397

Phil: If you push up on a controller, that should make you go down in flight.

00:34:36.457 --> 00:34:38.657

Phil: If you pull back on a controller, you should go up.

00:34:38.677 --> 00:34:44.697

Phil: So that's the only thing that I changed in the customizable controls, which I was very, very glad to see.

00:34:44.717 --> 00:34:51.357

Phil: You can change the camera and all of the controls on an XY basis or an inverted basis.

00:34:51.377 --> 00:34:53.317

Phil: So yeah, I was very happy with that.

00:34:53.337 --> 00:34:53.517

Phil: Now...

00:34:55.357 --> 00:35:12.997

Tom: Just on the controls, it's interesting you should be so impressed by them because a lot of the people on the game I know who are now trying the Switch version, about, I would say, 75% of them have found the controls a little bit more awkward than the phone controls.

00:35:13.277 --> 00:35:15.317

Phil: Oh, I could not imagine playing this on the phone.

00:35:15.337 --> 00:35:20.337

Phil: Now, I did play it on the phone, and it was terrible to me.

00:35:20.337 --> 00:35:20.937

Phil: It was shocking.

00:35:21.737 --> 00:35:25.497

Tom: Did you have the two finger setting on rather than one?

00:35:25.557 --> 00:35:25.837

Phil: No.

00:35:26.657 --> 00:35:28.697

Tom: Okay, well then it is essentially unplayable.

00:35:29.777 --> 00:35:34.657

Tom: But you need it to essentially simulate two analogue sticks for it to work.

00:35:34.897 --> 00:35:37.017

Phil: Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

00:35:37.217 --> 00:35:37.577

Tom: Yes.

00:35:38.097 --> 00:35:49.417

Phil: And, you know, I found it wonderful, absolutely wonderful on the Switch, and I played it both in the handheld mode and docked with a pro controller, because, you know, I am a professional gamer.

00:35:50.897 --> 00:35:52.777

Phil: They don't just sell those at stores, you know.

00:35:54.257 --> 00:35:57.797

Phil: And the graphics, you know, the control was great on both.

00:35:58.117 --> 00:36:01.877

Phil: So as a free game, thoroughly recommended.

00:36:03.197 --> 00:36:15.137

Phil: As the game is a challenging one to kind of understand as to what it is that you're supposed to be doing, that's kind of the fun of the game at the start.

00:36:15.417 --> 00:36:17.217

Phil: The fun of the game is finding the game.

00:36:17.857 --> 00:36:18.117

Tom: Yep.

00:36:18.577 --> 00:36:24.857

Phil: And that sense of wonder that, you know, people experience with Zelda Breath of the Wild on the Switch.

00:36:26.077 --> 00:36:29.717

Phil: Obviously, there is a much more obvious thing as what you should be doing.

00:36:29.737 --> 00:36:32.497

Phil: You know, you have a sword, you have a shield and all that sort of thing.

00:36:34.217 --> 00:36:38.797

Phil: The difficulty that I had with this was the other players.

00:36:39.557 --> 00:36:46.377

Phil: So other players will appear in a transparent ghost-like fashion until you make contact with them.

00:36:47.077 --> 00:36:58.677

Phil: And maybe because I was playing on the first day of the Switch, it seemed to be inundated with people who didn't, who seemed to be a couple of steps behind me in terms of knowing what it is that they were doing.

00:37:00.497 --> 00:37:07.857

Phil: Or users from other platforms that had no interest in interacting with noobs.

00:37:08.077 --> 00:37:20.997

Phil: So you'd either go up to someone to make a friend with them, and they either didn't know how to make a friend with you because they'd just started playing on the Switch, or they'd just basically go, no, you know, no, I'm not, you know, go away sort of thing.

00:37:21.017 --> 00:37:23.257

Phil: They'd be gesturing, no, go away, I don't want a friend.

00:37:24.937 --> 00:37:55.117

Phil: And I've got to say that's probably the highest jarring, you know, that's why I stopped playing after a few hours of play because I kind of, there was two things, there was that, which you can address in a minute, and then the other was, they take you back to a hub world, and it was really hard for me to determine which lands I had quite beaten and didn't need to go back into and which ones I did need to go into, like which gates or which worlds I had to go into.

00:37:55.137 --> 00:37:58.577

Tom: Well, at the beginning, aren't, don't you unlock them successively?

00:37:59.277 --> 00:38:00.857

Phil: No, no, they, it's...

00:38:00.877 --> 00:38:02.737

Tom: So they're all open to begin with.

00:38:03.017 --> 00:38:06.897

Phil: I don't know if they're all open, but let's just say there's four or five that are open to me right now.

00:38:07.817 --> 00:38:09.257

Phil: And I would have much...

00:38:09.277 --> 00:38:12.097

Tom: Because there have been many changes to it over the years.

00:38:12.297 --> 00:38:18.577

Phil: Yeah, I would have much preferred to have been a linear progression until I was really comfortable with what I was doing.

00:38:19.137 --> 00:38:20.877

Tom: That's how it was when I started playing.

00:38:20.897 --> 00:38:22.617

Phil: Yeah, because I found myself...

00:38:22.857 --> 00:38:34.257

Tom: In addition to that, another change there which will alter your experience of first playing is originally the people, other players were already lit up.

00:38:34.377 --> 00:38:41.157

Tom: You could see what they actually looked like to begin with without having to light their candle as you need to do now.

00:38:41.937 --> 00:38:48.697

Tom: So, it was quite a different beginner experience when the game was first released.

00:38:48.917 --> 00:38:50.897

Phil: Yep, yep.

00:38:50.917 --> 00:38:55.557

Phil: But that's pretty much all I have to say about this game.

00:38:56.577 --> 00:39:05.557

Phil: At this point, I've got to figure out how to tie my two accounts together and then how to get a friend, like yourself, to play with.

00:39:07.077 --> 00:39:13.497

Phil: I don't really understand the etiquette of the friendship either and that's probably another issue.

00:39:13.557 --> 00:39:15.857

Phil: Like, am I supposed to be friending everyone I see?

00:39:16.897 --> 00:39:19.377

Tom: No, you can if you want.

00:39:19.397 --> 00:39:19.877

Tom: Try that.

00:39:20.357 --> 00:39:22.937

Tom: And a lot of new players do do that.

00:39:23.597 --> 00:39:30.297

Tom: And usually experienced players either do not mind or if they do, they'll just simply ignore you.

00:39:31.477 --> 00:39:41.977

Tom: So I don't think that that would cause too many problems except that it uses in-game currency, which as you continue will become more important, so you may not want to do that.

00:39:44.777 --> 00:39:57.817

Tom: But the general etiquette would be just simply if someone, if you want to go up to someone, go up to them, light their candle and just follow them around the level helping them out in whatever they're doing.

00:39:58.877 --> 00:40:01.597

Tom: And after that, you could then add them, I would suggest.

00:40:02.217 --> 00:40:02.477

Phil: Yep.

00:40:03.257 --> 00:40:03.497

Phil: Yep.

00:40:04.197 --> 00:40:09.537

Phil: So again, it's always difficult when you have a pre-existing game come to a new platform.

00:40:10.197 --> 00:40:11.057

Phil: Yep.

00:40:11.417 --> 00:40:12.337

Phil: In the different ranges.

00:40:12.357 --> 00:40:18.237

Phil: So what has the introduction of the Switch platform meant for long-term players of the game?

00:40:18.837 --> 00:40:26.077

Tom: Well, just before that, I have to say it's also quite interesting that you have had people gesturing to you to go away.

00:40:26.977 --> 00:40:28.837

Tom: That's, I think, an impressive achievement.

00:40:32.017 --> 00:40:33.317

Tom: I wouldn't say that would be normal.

00:40:34.657 --> 00:40:36.297

Phil: But I haven't done anything offensive.

00:40:37.337 --> 00:40:38.157

Tom: Maybe you have.

00:40:38.197 --> 00:40:39.097

Tom: Maybe you have.

00:40:41.237 --> 00:40:41.657

Phil: All right.

00:40:41.897 --> 00:40:47.077

Phil: Well, I mean, so tell me about what's the community reaction been to all these noobs washing in?

00:40:47.097 --> 00:40:47.557

Tom: Yes, yes.

00:40:47.797 --> 00:41:00.717

Tom: Well, there hasn't really been any sort of reaction to noobs washing in, because that has happened already when it was released on Android and also when it was released officially on the Chinese market.

00:41:01.677 --> 00:41:05.637

Tom: And there were already a huge number of Chinese players before that, though, of course.

00:41:07.617 --> 00:41:20.457

Tom: But I think the main reaction of people has just simply been a jealousy that they cannot get the Switch exclusive items, I would say.

00:41:20.877 --> 00:41:20.997

Tom: Yeah.

00:41:23.897 --> 00:41:35.257

Tom: Which beta players, such as myself, did get on the Android and iOS anyway, but only on the actual beta servers rather than the main game.

00:41:35.437 --> 00:41:38.757

Phil: Did you have any idea what the wider reception to this game has been?

00:41:38.957 --> 00:41:46.457

Phil: I've only heard one outlet talk about it, and they basically talked about it the same way I talked about it, which was respectfully, but a little bit confused.

00:41:47.517 --> 00:42:12.277

Tom: Yep, I think that probably is the general reaction to it, and then you sometimes get on larger outlets stuff written by people who have played it a lot and are very much enjoying it, but the general press reaction has been basically, this looks like Journey, how wonderful, and then that's it.

00:42:12.357 --> 00:42:14.177

Phil: If you have nothing else to say about...

00:42:15.717 --> 00:42:18.157

Tom: Well, we do have to talk about the Little Prince season.

00:42:18.177 --> 00:42:18.797

Phil: Okay, yep.

00:42:19.457 --> 00:42:27.197

Tom: Which is, I would say, probably the best season since the...

00:42:28.577 --> 00:42:29.077

Phil: Beatles?

00:42:30.137 --> 00:42:31.417

Tom: No, not since the Beatles.

00:42:31.437 --> 00:42:32.057

Phil: Slice Bread.

00:42:32.857 --> 00:42:34.017

Tom: Not since Slice Bread.

00:42:34.577 --> 00:42:39.637

Tom: Since I think it was maybe the third or fourth season, I'm not entirely sure.

00:42:39.657 --> 00:42:40.817

Phil: How many seasons are they up to?

00:42:41.677 --> 00:42:45.357

Tom: This is like the 10th or 11th or 8th or 9th at least.

00:42:45.377 --> 00:42:45.957

Tom: Jeez.

00:42:46.437 --> 00:42:47.457

Tom: There have been a lot of them.

00:42:47.477 --> 00:42:48.857

Phil: Well, explain what a season is.

00:42:48.877 --> 00:42:50.977

Phil: Is it like an expansion pack or is it just...

00:42:50.997 --> 00:42:59.837

Tom: Yes, a season is basically an expansion pack that introduces a new story line and also a new area to explore as well.

00:43:00.877 --> 00:43:11.697

Tom: And after the first few seasons, which they put quite far apart, they've since started doing the seasons more often, thus why we're up to so many seasons.

00:43:12.097 --> 00:43:22.497

Tom: And the rhythm of release has basically been they will release a season that they put a lot of effort into, then they'll release a full season, then they'll release another season they put a lot of effort into.

00:43:22.517 --> 00:43:24.157

Tom: And this is following that.

00:43:25.697 --> 00:43:27.817

Phil: So they do what we do with this podcast.

00:43:28.297 --> 00:43:32.137

Tom: Correct, except in one of them, they do put in a lot of effort.

00:43:32.177 --> 00:43:33.577

Phil: But keep listening, people.

00:43:33.597 --> 00:43:34.277

Phil: This is the good one.

00:43:34.317 --> 00:43:35.417

Phil: This is the good one.

00:43:36.377 --> 00:43:42.137

Tom: Which reminds me, I have to try dipping the cheeseburger in the sweet and sour sauce.

00:43:42.157 --> 00:43:42.777

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:43:42.797 --> 00:43:44.377

Phil: We've given them too much game content.

00:43:44.397 --> 00:43:45.237

Phil: It's time to...

00:43:45.257 --> 00:43:47.317

Tom: So we have to take a short break to do this.

00:43:47.337 --> 00:43:51.377

Phil: Should we talk about religion politics or something like that as well?

00:43:52.517 --> 00:43:56.477

Tom: Well, we were talking about Chinese imperialism earlier, I believe.

00:43:56.497 --> 00:43:56.977

Phil: Yeah, I know.

00:43:56.977 --> 00:43:58.757

Phil: If I said that the Chinese imperialism...

00:43:58.777 --> 00:44:04.037

Tom: And yet again, you failed to come up with a response to my argument.

00:44:04.057 --> 00:44:05.497

Phil: That's because I agree with you.

00:44:05.517 --> 00:44:07.137

Phil: I've had time to come around, man.

00:44:07.137 --> 00:44:07.537

Tom: Excellent.

00:44:07.557 --> 00:44:09.817

Phil: It's been 10 weeks since we recorded or something.

00:44:10.657 --> 00:44:14.257

Tom: And you spent every moment thinking about it and researching the topic.

00:44:14.317 --> 00:44:15.637

Phil: And going, yeah, you know what?

00:44:15.717 --> 00:44:16.557

Phil: Tom is right.

00:44:19.457 --> 00:44:19.977

Tom: Here we go.

00:44:20.557 --> 00:44:22.477

Tom: The moment you've all been waiting for.

00:44:22.497 --> 00:44:29.897

Tom: I was dunking the bacon cheeseburger with extra pickles, mustard and ketchup into the sweet and sour sauce.

00:44:30.377 --> 00:44:31.517

Phil: I thought you'd already done this.

00:44:32.737 --> 00:44:35.137

Tom: No, I did that with the chicken and cheeseburger.

00:44:35.137 --> 00:44:37.817

Phil: It's like a Tadurken is what you're doing here.

00:44:39.157 --> 00:44:40.157

Phil: There's another one to look up.

00:44:43.197 --> 00:44:43.777

Phil: Turducken.

00:44:50.896 --> 00:44:52.296

Tom: Again, I think that works really well.

00:44:52.816 --> 00:45:05.596

Tom: The first effect is, I think through one's associated memories, the extra sweetness actually brings out the flavour of the bacon and makes it more noticeable and prominent.

00:45:07.916 --> 00:45:22.556

Tom: Then afterwards, once the sweetness of the sweet and sour sauce has faded a little, you get the extreme salty kick of all of that mustard and ketchup and the pickles just amplifying the flavour.

00:45:22.576 --> 00:45:30.376

Tom: So I would highly recommend dipping your customised cheeseburger into sweet and sour sauce.

00:45:32.736 --> 00:45:33.376

Phil: Very good.

00:45:35.256 --> 00:45:36.916

Tom: Now, back to Sky, unfortunately.

00:45:36.936 --> 00:45:39.056

Phil: Well, is there going to be any more ASMR in the show?

00:45:40.576 --> 00:45:43.936

Tom: I'll just finish eating in the background while you're speaking.

00:45:44.116 --> 00:45:49.396

Tom: I will obviously give my final thoughts on the energy and fillingness of the cheeseburger eventually though.

00:45:49.416 --> 00:45:54.636

Phil: Okay, well, I feel like I can't be left out of this segment, so I'm about to do my own ASMR.

00:45:57.116 --> 00:45:58.136

Phil: And there you have it.

00:45:58.716 --> 00:45:59.576

Tom: What are you drinking?

00:46:00.256 --> 00:46:01.936

Tom: Is it alcohol-free Heineken?

00:46:02.076 --> 00:46:02.876

Phil: Yes, it is.

00:46:03.236 --> 00:46:04.076

Phil: How could you doubt?

00:46:04.556 --> 00:46:05.616

Phil: Another new sponsor.

00:46:06.316 --> 00:46:10.336

Phil: No, it's James Squire Hop Thief American Pale Ale Special 10th Edition.

00:46:11.576 --> 00:46:13.236

Tom: That's very disappointing, I have to say.

00:46:13.256 --> 00:46:14.876

Phil: 5.3% alcohol in volume.

00:46:17.236 --> 00:46:19.196

Tom: I was hoping for the alcohol-free Heineken.

00:46:19.436 --> 00:46:24.236

Phil: No, well, you know, not until they're responsible, I drink that swill.

00:46:24.816 --> 00:46:28.916

Phil: So you were talking, you had something else, you were talking about The Little Prince expansion pack.

00:46:28.936 --> 00:46:30.176

Tom: Yeah, The Little Prince season.

00:46:30.716 --> 00:46:33.456

Tom: So the prior season was essentially a filler season.

00:46:33.476 --> 00:46:36.356

Tom: The one before that was one of their best seasons.

00:46:36.816 --> 00:46:45.816

Tom: That was the one about a skater, which unfortunately they totally screwed up the release of with a million glitches and other problems.

00:46:45.836 --> 00:46:46.956

Phil: I heard about that.

00:46:46.976 --> 00:46:55.876

Phil: And then there was the unlicensed use of Tony Hawk's image, which got them into some trouble.

00:46:55.956 --> 00:46:58.576

Tom: As well as Avril Lavigne's Skater Girl.

00:46:58.956 --> 00:46:59.936

Phil: Oh, yeah, very good.

00:47:00.336 --> 00:47:02.976

Tom: So it was a double, double failure.

00:47:03.196 --> 00:47:09.416

Tom: They totally missed the mark there, unfortunately, which was which was a great disappointment because the season itself was so good.

00:47:10.636 --> 00:47:25.176

Tom: But now at a proper season, this is the first season they've done that is explicitly referencing another intellectual property, I believe is the politically correct term.

00:47:26.736 --> 00:47:38.996

Tom: And The Little Prince is a natural fit for Sky, as you described the aesthetic and narrative of Sky earlier on.

00:47:39.016 --> 00:47:40.876

Tom: You can see how it is a very natural fit.

00:47:41.496 --> 00:48:18.316

Tom: And the way that they tell the story of The Little Prince is very interesting because there is no voice acting in Sky, but there are cut scenes and the dialogue is communicated just with text from The Little Prince as you meet him throughout the world and the story of the characters that he meets are in the new area and are communicated by reliving the memories of spirits and again using the in-game dialogue as if you're talking to other players, which works really well for two reasons.

00:48:18.476 --> 00:48:26.216

Tom: One, it does not at all interfere with the immersion and it's an interesting effect that it is the same way you communicate to other players.

00:48:27.336 --> 00:48:47.696

Tom: I think adding to the immersion and additionally a lot of the dialogue is some of it, a few snippets of it are almost verbatim and the rest is very close to the dialogue in the stories, although they did change the alcoholic to someone drinking dark water or something to that effect.

00:48:51.076 --> 00:49:13.876

Tom: But obviously, The Little Prince is a really rich writing, so it just worked perfectly being communicated in that way and I think a lot better than most adaptations of The Little Prince that do it in a more ostentatious and overstated manner where you do not need to with a book that is that well written.

00:49:15.496 --> 00:49:16.556

Phil: Two questions for you.

00:49:18.756 --> 00:49:19.996

Phil: How big is this game?

00:49:21.476 --> 00:49:22.336

Phil: It's huge, right?

00:49:22.356 --> 00:49:23.676

Phil: I mean, the 10th season.

00:49:24.996 --> 00:49:27.596

Tom: Yes, well, you can't do the previous seasons.

00:49:28.656 --> 00:49:31.616

Phil: No, I mean in terms of popularity.

00:49:32.376 --> 00:49:33.716

Tom: Oh, in terms of popularity.

00:49:34.016 --> 00:49:54.096

Tom: Well, it must be relatively successful because it is still going with as much support as it originally did and the number of other players has not diminished and has generally just increased with each platform release and each new region that comes along.

00:49:54.116 --> 00:49:55.496

Phil: You've been playing it for two years.

00:49:55.516 --> 00:49:56.236

Phil: What's the hook?

00:49:57.296 --> 00:50:01.976

Tom: I've been playing it since it was first released and the hook is two things, I would say.

00:50:02.316 --> 00:50:19.056

Tom: One, the aesthetic remains just, it has so much depth to it that it is endlessly enjoyable to continue collecting candles and doing that sort of thing as an aesthetic relaxing experience.

00:50:20.976 --> 00:50:43.776

Tom: But it becomes a whole other thing that is much more engrossive as it is in any sort of MMO where due to the way that you meet people in the game and usually go around with them for a period of time before actually talking to them or if you talk to them immediately, you're probably meeting them directly through friends you already have on the game.

00:50:44.596 --> 00:51:06.996

Tom: And the way in which you help one another out in the game creates an extremely unique and enjoyable community of other players to be doing what is essentially an extremely repetitive MMORPG style grinding experience.

00:51:06.996 --> 00:51:22.436

Tom: Once you have got all the spirits and gone through all the stories in the game, it then essentially becomes all about collecting candles outside of the seasons where you get a snippet of what the original experience was like.

00:51:22.816 --> 00:51:34.296

Tom: But due to the way they handle the social interaction in the game, it is a totally unique social experience that isn't really like any other sort of MMO out there.

00:51:34.916 --> 00:51:38.716

Phil: One of the issues I had with the game was how do I communicate with these people?

00:51:38.736 --> 00:51:44.256

Phil: And you were saying, well, half the listeners of this podcast now come from Sky and that they're telling you that they like the ASMR.

00:51:44.536 --> 00:51:47.996

Phil: I can't imagine how you did that with a series of chirps and gestures.

00:51:49.456 --> 00:51:52.056

Tom: Well, chirps and gestures are perfect for ASMR.

00:51:53.136 --> 00:51:55.596

Phil: Tell me how do you communicate with these people then?

00:51:56.996 --> 00:52:05.336

Tom: Well, you communicate them with in-game text once you have befriended them and unlocked chat or added them via a QR code.

00:52:05.396 --> 00:52:17.156

Phil: Okay, see, that was one of the issues that I had with this that I think would be way better in a touch environment was, and unfortunately they don't utilise the touchscreen on the Switch, which is baffling to me.

00:52:18.356 --> 00:52:27.716

Phil: I can tell that really good players at this are able to switch between gestures effortlessly and rapidly, which for a new player is really intimidating.

00:52:27.736 --> 00:52:31.156

Phil: And fortunately, they only give you a few gestures and you unlock them slowly.

00:52:32.256 --> 00:52:36.376

Phil: But like I wanted to talk to someone and I was like, oh, I should be using this gesture.

00:52:36.396 --> 00:52:37.716

Phil: And then I got lost in the menu.

00:52:37.736 --> 00:52:40.116

Phil: And by the time I find the gesture, I want to do it.

00:52:40.576 --> 00:52:43.016

Phil: You know, it's like seven seconds later.

00:52:43.736 --> 00:52:43.996

Tom: Yeah.

00:52:44.736 --> 00:52:45.096

Phil: And that's...

00:52:45.116 --> 00:52:46.276

Tom: Well, do you have bow?

00:52:46.696 --> 00:52:47.056

Phil: Yes.

00:52:47.856 --> 00:52:48.156

Tom: Yes.

00:52:48.176 --> 00:52:54.436

Tom: Well, I should add the correct etiquette when meeting anyone is after you light their candle, you bow to them.

00:52:55.196 --> 00:52:57.396

Phil: Oh, see, that's why people tell me to go away.

00:52:58.016 --> 00:52:58.396

Tom: Yes.

00:52:58.796 --> 00:53:00.216

Phil: I've been f**king them in the arse.

00:53:02.116 --> 00:53:02.836

Phil: Oh, jeez.

00:53:03.316 --> 00:53:04.496

Phil: I feel like an idiot now.

00:53:04.516 --> 00:53:08.056

Tom: That's how we greet each other in Australia, by the way, for our international listeners.

00:53:08.836 --> 00:53:09.976

Phil: It's a cultural thing.

00:53:12.756 --> 00:53:15.056

Phil: Well, so this is the best season since season three.

00:53:16.236 --> 00:53:26.376

Tom: Yes, or whatever the season which featured before the season was actually released, some people figured out how to get to the area.

00:53:27.356 --> 00:53:38.236

Tom: And the reason the season was so enjoyable, the season itself was really good because it had one of the best new areas in terms of how it evolved as you were playing.

00:53:38.256 --> 00:53:43.616

Tom: There was a crashed airship and you were essentially repairing the airship.

00:53:44.016 --> 00:53:51.896

Tom: And as you repaired it over time, the area would grow with plants and flowers and things like that.

00:53:51.916 --> 00:53:54.896

Tom: And it had a great sense of progression to it and was really beautiful.

00:53:54.916 --> 00:54:07.196

Tom: But the greatest appeal of it was that when someone figured out how to get there early, you would have one or two friends who either knew how to get there or knew someone else who did.

00:54:07.756 --> 00:54:09.856

Tom: And you would walk to them and you would go there.

00:54:10.236 --> 00:54:15.956

Tom: And there were mushrooms that were high up in the sky or underground.

00:54:16.356 --> 00:54:31.116

Tom: And the underground ones, you had to glitch through the ground into an underwater area where to reach the mushrooms, you would have to set up tables in the air and fly between the tables.

00:54:31.176 --> 00:54:35.336

Tom: And it was really awkward and difficult, probably the hardest thing in the game.

00:54:36.316 --> 00:54:54.356

Tom: And doing this extreme challenge to collect these mushrooms as each one gave you a candle, which was not a potentially generally intended design feature, was just this hilarious and enjoyable experience.

00:54:55.576 --> 00:54:58.456

Tom: So this is probably the best season since then.

00:54:59.576 --> 00:55:06.176

Tom: And it's deliberately good for its story and aesthetic.

00:55:06.216 --> 00:55:19.816

Tom: And it probably is the best one in terms of that, and just beating the skating season for me in terms of the narrative and aesthetic of the area.

00:55:20.056 --> 00:55:28.356

Tom: And also just put the other one third, the mushroom picking season, if not for the mushroom picking season, which makes it by far the greatest.

00:55:28.796 --> 00:55:33.176

Phil: We could probably talk about this game forever, but we've got a list of games as long as my arm.

00:55:33.476 --> 00:55:35.136

Phil: Is there anything else you want to say about Sky?

00:55:36.356 --> 00:55:36.916

Tom: Not really.

00:55:36.916 --> 00:55:52.436

Tom: And I would just add the final thing again, demonstrating the fascinating and totally different tone to the community of it, because if you're holding hands with another player, they recharge your flying energy, you will get people who will...

00:55:54.336 --> 00:55:54.936

Tom: I mean, sorry.

00:55:55.056 --> 00:55:58.016

Tom: You can just go around with friends, never flying.

00:55:58.036 --> 00:56:04.436

Tom: Basically, my playing of the game usually consists of if I'm eating and doing nothing else.

00:56:04.456 --> 00:56:09.596

Tom: And so I will just follow a friend around, talking to them essentially, rather than actually ever flying.

00:56:09.596 --> 00:56:31.336

Tom: Me running around in the game is very rare these days, but because it helps other people and the slower way in which you meet people, things like that, which people would have a huge problem with in other MMORPGs, if you did not actually then go out and farm for X amount of time yourself with them just sitting around doing nothing.

00:56:31.936 --> 00:56:33.676

Tom: That isn't an issue in Sky.

00:56:33.696 --> 00:56:34.956

Phil: Yeah, try that in Call of Duty.

00:56:35.596 --> 00:56:35.936

Tom: Yes.

00:56:36.416 --> 00:56:37.656

Phil: See how long you'll last.

00:56:38.936 --> 00:56:39.316

Tom: Exactly.

00:56:39.336 --> 00:56:41.936

Phil: I mean, it's okay to you, I'm just gonna sit here and eat, all right?

00:56:43.696 --> 00:56:53.576

Tom: Well, in MMORPGs, there are similar things where if you go into a dungeon with someone, without killing anything, if you're in their party, you'll get a certain amount of their XP.

00:56:54.276 --> 00:57:06.476

Tom: So you will often have a situation where people will just sit around chatting or being AFK there, but there's usually much greater expectation that you will also then need to do the same thing for other people.

00:57:06.896 --> 00:57:12.376

Tom: Whereas here, because you are still helping out by recharging people, that isn't really an issue.

00:57:12.396 --> 00:57:15.536

Tom: And also because you, to begin with, know the people better.

00:57:15.556 --> 00:57:17.496

Phil: So you're basically a lithium battery.

00:57:18.296 --> 00:57:19.656

Tom: Exactly, exactly.

00:57:20.676 --> 00:57:22.736

Tom: I am regenerative breaking, essentially.

00:57:22.736 --> 00:57:30.216

Phil: There was a game we both played called The First Tree, which is a journey ripoff, which is the only reason I mention it here.

00:57:31.876 --> 00:57:37.136

Phil: And like I was reading through my notes and my notes, and you're gonna have to excuse the French here.

00:57:37.836 --> 00:57:42.956

Phil: I wrote, you have one job in your journey ripoff, get the fucking character animation right.

00:57:43.536 --> 00:57:45.836

Phil: You failed, you failed comically.

00:57:46.016 --> 00:57:46.896

Phil: Now fuck off.

00:57:48.416 --> 00:57:50.296

Phil: That was my review of The First Tree.

00:57:51.076 --> 00:57:52.896

Phil: The First Tree, is it available free?

00:57:52.916 --> 00:57:54.056

Phil: We got it somewhere, didn't we?

00:57:54.076 --> 00:57:56.556

Tom: I think it was free on Epic Games Store.

00:57:56.636 --> 00:57:57.556

Phil: Okay, okay.

00:57:57.576 --> 00:58:02.296

Phil: And I may have got it through the Amazon Prime game service, which I'll just plug right now.

00:58:02.696 --> 00:58:06.676

Phil: If you have Amazon Prime, they have a game service that comes with Prime.

00:58:06.696 --> 00:58:08.236

Phil: You don't have to pay any extra money.

00:58:08.256 --> 00:58:09.676

Phil: And basically it's free games.

00:58:10.176 --> 00:58:18.356

Phil: It's bare bones as it can be, but it has notable games and indie ones and new games every week.

00:58:18.956 --> 00:58:33.876

Phil: Just to give you an idea as to some of the games, there's some Telltale series games on there, like Batman and Enemy Within, Monkey Island Special Edition, Yakuza Island Express, Before I Forget, which is another game that we both played.

00:58:34.116 --> 00:58:35.256

Phil: I'm not saying Before I Forget.

00:58:35.276 --> 00:58:36.676

Phil: Before I Forget is the name of the game.

00:58:37.656 --> 00:58:41.456

Phil: The Escapists, Moving Out, I mean, there's tons of free games on there.

00:58:42.236 --> 00:58:51.136

Phil: And if you're Bombslinger from Team17, and if you are an Amazon Prime subscriber already, it's free.

00:58:51.196 --> 00:58:54.016

Phil: I mean, all you have to do is download the platform for it.

00:58:55.776 --> 00:58:59.636

Phil: And I've found some great games as a part of it.

00:58:59.676 --> 00:59:01.816

Phil: So do you have a Prime subscription?

00:59:02.756 --> 00:59:05.276

Tom: I do currently and I played Before I Forget.

00:59:06.836 --> 00:59:07.396

Phil: What did you play?

00:59:08.556 --> 00:59:09.296

Tom: Before I Forget.

00:59:09.316 --> 00:59:09.876

Phil: Yeah, I know.

00:59:09.896 --> 00:59:11.016

Phil: Just tell us the name of the game, man.

00:59:13.076 --> 00:59:15.076

Tom: The First Tree, which we were talking about a moment ago.

00:59:15.096 --> 00:59:15.436

Phil: Oh, that's right.

00:59:15.456 --> 00:59:16.396

Tom: I'm surprised you forgot already.

00:59:16.416 --> 00:59:18.176

Phil: That's right.

00:59:18.196 --> 00:59:20.516

Phil: The First Tree, I describe it as a journey ripoff.

00:59:20.996 --> 00:59:21.296

Tom: Yes.

00:59:21.696 --> 00:59:30.376

Phil: With a really bad voiceover about a guy who's coming to terms with something or other and doing it by remembering his teenage years.

00:59:30.976 --> 00:59:35.016

Tom: It is so funny because he's talking to his partner.

00:59:35.036 --> 00:59:36.556

Phil: That's right.

00:59:36.976 --> 00:59:47.196

Tom: And he's bearing his heart to her on the problems he had with his father and growing up in an isolated, remote Alaskan community.

00:59:47.816 --> 00:59:53.816

Tom: And at some point, towards the end of the discussion, he's just like, okay, that's enough.

00:59:53.856 --> 00:59:55.136

Tom: I'm so exhausted.

00:59:55.576 --> 00:59:57.296

Tom: I've just bared my heart to you.

00:59:57.516 --> 00:59:58.596

Tom: I have to go to sleep now.

00:59:58.616 --> 01:00:00.616

Tom: And she's like, fuck you, motherfucker.

01:00:00.856 --> 01:00:05.456

Tom: You are finishing this fucking story before you go to sleep, you little shit.

01:00:09.356 --> 01:00:10.516

Phil: It is so bad.

01:00:10.836 --> 01:00:11.656

Phil: The writing.

01:00:11.676 --> 01:00:12.356

Tom: It's so funny.

01:00:12.376 --> 01:00:12.716

Phil: The writing.

01:00:12.736 --> 01:00:15.816

Tom: And he was like, yes, thank you for looking out for me like that.

01:00:16.236 --> 01:00:26.036

Tom: I'm sorry, but if someone fucking said that to me, they would be very lucky to get away with not being punched in the face or something.

01:00:26.376 --> 01:00:41.776

Tom: If I've just spent 50 hours on this long fucking heart-rending story and I can't go on due to physical exhaustion and this fucking piece of shit tells me, you fucking keep going, you ass.

01:00:42.696 --> 01:00:43.536

Tom: What the fuck?

01:00:44.036 --> 01:00:44.756

Tom: Oh my God.

01:00:45.436 --> 01:00:48.116

Phil: The animation, you're a dog or a wolf.

01:00:48.196 --> 01:00:49.616

Phil: I can't even remember this horror.

01:00:49.636 --> 01:00:50.616

Tom: You're a fox, I believe.

01:00:50.976 --> 01:00:51.716

Phil: Are you a fox?

01:00:52.996 --> 01:00:53.636

Tom: Yes.

01:00:53.636 --> 01:00:55.176

Phil: So a cross between a dog and a wolf.

01:00:56.196 --> 01:01:02.016

Phil: You're a fox, and like there's this, if you get a ripoff journey, get the character animation right.

01:01:02.036 --> 01:01:15.256

Phil: And you go to double jump, and basically the dog just basically, Jesus poses, and flies through the air, and then lands like a popsicle before he reanimates.

01:01:15.776 --> 01:01:16.856

Phil: It is so bad.

01:01:17.156 --> 01:01:21.356

Phil: This game is comically bad, and you need to play it, everyone out there.

01:01:21.436 --> 01:01:22.596

Tom: I absolutely loved it.

01:01:23.496 --> 01:01:37.396

Tom: And I have to say, it is simultaneously, I think aesthetically, one of the greatest experiences I've had, and one of the worst, with the, and narratively as well, was actually quite enjoyable in some ways.

01:01:37.616 --> 01:01:57.416

Tom: But forget the hilarity of the animation, the colors of the world were really unique, and also the, almost vortex, what was the outcast style way of doing pixels and building a world called?

01:01:57.436 --> 01:01:58.016

Phil: Outcast?

01:01:58.036 --> 01:01:58.276

Tom: Yes.

01:01:59.456 --> 01:02:00.256

Phil: What's Outcast?

01:02:01.256 --> 01:02:06.916

Tom: That was a PC game, and I'll look it up, just to confirm, I'm getting the name correct, but I think I am.

01:02:07.716 --> 01:02:08.016

Tom: That-

01:02:08.496 --> 01:02:12.076

Phil: Keeping in mind that I played The First Tree probably three weeks ago and didn't remember it.

01:02:12.096 --> 01:02:22.396

Tom: Yes, yes, Outcast, that is the correct name, made by originally, I think, fresh 3D perhaps.

01:02:23.316 --> 01:02:32.416

Tom: Anyway, it had a unique way of pixelating the world, which resulted in really smooth 3D surfaces for the time.

01:02:32.716 --> 01:02:34.956

Tom: It came out in 1999.

01:02:35.176 --> 01:02:51.636

Tom: Look it up and you would not be able to predict what it looks like, because it looks essentially like a N64 game, but with HD smoothness and much more detail in the curved surfaces.

01:02:52.496 --> 01:03:00.256

Tom: So it was a fascinating way of designing things and there are visual similarities here in the way trees and things like that look.

01:03:00.496 --> 01:03:13.296

Tom: Anyway, the basic point is the world looked very much like Picasso landscapes of the brief period in his career where he painted anything that wasn't utter shite.

01:03:13.856 --> 01:03:17.796

Tom: So it was a really fascinating and unique aesthetic experience.

01:03:18.396 --> 01:03:29.556

Tom: And the story of the fox, if you remove the story of the people and you're not too bothered by the hilarious animation was to me endearing enough that it kept my attention to the end.

01:03:29.876 --> 01:03:50.076

Tom: And it ends with you leaving a message for other players and you getting a message from other players on the theme of the game, which I thought again, worked in the context of the fox story quite nicely because it was left as a message for her children who she cannot communicate with because they're all dead essentially.

01:03:50.076 --> 01:03:54.176

Tom: So to me, it was just a totally fascinating experience.

01:03:54.196 --> 01:03:56.556

Tom: That was one, absolutely hilarious.

01:03:56.856 --> 01:04:10.696

Tom: And two, had some genuinely unique and good stuff about it while also being a ripoff of Journey and also featuring one of the funniest, stupidest stories tacked on to the top of it for some unknown reason.

01:04:11.916 --> 01:04:13.836

Phil: I think it's only like an hour long as well.

01:04:14.316 --> 01:04:15.316

Tom: Yeah, it's really short.

01:04:15.336 --> 01:04:20.256

Phil: Yeah, I just got to say, like it, you know, this was obviously someone's creative dream.

01:04:20.276 --> 01:04:23.736

Phil: They, you know, they did something that I've never done, which is publish a video game.

01:04:23.756 --> 01:04:24.336

Phil: That's great.

01:04:24.816 --> 01:04:31.536

Phil: You've talked about how great itch is because it means everyone can publish their own game and their own story, which is great.

01:04:31.556 --> 01:04:38.696

Phil: I mean, anyone can publish their own game and own story, but if you're going to self-publish, you open yourself up for this kind of criticism.

01:04:38.756 --> 01:04:39.556

Phil: And I'm sorry.

01:04:39.676 --> 01:04:45.096

Phil: I mean, there was some things about it that was very good and that didn't crash, I don't think.

01:04:46.616 --> 01:04:57.296

Phil: And it was short and it was obviously heartfelt, but you know, when you self-publish, you're not going to get the kind of polish that you're going to get from other games.

01:04:57.296 --> 01:04:58.496

Phil: And some...

01:04:58.516 --> 01:05:03.016

Tom: Well, that's totally false because there are self-published games where that is the case.

01:05:03.036 --> 01:05:03.476

Phil: No, I know.

01:05:03.616 --> 01:05:10.036

Phil: I was going to say though, and sometimes that lack of polish is actually the brilliance of that game.

01:05:10.056 --> 01:05:10.576

Tom: That's right.

01:05:10.596 --> 01:05:10.776

Phil: Yeah.

01:05:10.796 --> 01:05:11.336

Tom: That is true.

01:05:12.276 --> 01:05:17.716

Tom: And you will not get lack of polish that is good in larger things for the most part.

01:05:17.856 --> 01:05:23.556

Tom: But that, no, you do actually sometimes get that in rare occasions, like the Order 1886.

01:05:23.736 --> 01:05:25.436

Phil: Yeah, or Saints Row, for example.

01:05:26.076 --> 01:05:29.016

Tom: So it does happen in published games as well.

01:05:29.536 --> 01:05:31.416

Tom: And yes, Saints Row, another great example.

01:05:31.436 --> 01:05:35.116

Phil: Does that Plague Tale game have a similar kind of thing or not?

01:05:36.176 --> 01:05:37.656

Tom: No, Plague Tale is quite polished.

01:05:37.676 --> 01:05:38.036

Phil: Okay.

01:05:38.076 --> 01:05:45.756

Phil: And that was given away free on Game Pass and on Sony's equivalent service about a month ago.

01:05:45.776 --> 01:05:49.716

Phil: And what was your reaction when you found out there was going to be a sequel?

01:05:51.636 --> 01:05:54.156

Tom: Well, this is me finding out that there's going to be a sequel.

01:05:54.176 --> 01:05:57.036

Phil: Well, this is from the studio that did a Plague Tale, right?

01:05:57.056 --> 01:05:57.656

Phil: That's what it's called.

01:05:58.956 --> 01:06:00.176

Tom: That is indeed what it is called.

01:06:00.316 --> 01:06:06.696

Phil: And it's a kind of a, I'm going to say like a B-game type third person action adventure.

01:06:07.396 --> 01:06:09.876

Tom: We would have referred to it in the past as a mid-tier.

01:06:09.896 --> 01:06:10.276

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:10.756 --> 01:06:11.256

Phil: Exactly.

01:06:11.496 --> 01:06:17.716

Phil: And this same team went on to do Microsoft's Flight Simulator, which has been massively...

01:06:17.736 --> 01:06:21.576

Tom: You can see the influence of a plague tale.

01:06:22.116 --> 01:06:24.356

Phil: It's gone on to be massively successful.

01:06:24.376 --> 01:06:32.956

Phil: And then as a result, Microsoft, I think now owns the studio, is part of their buy-up of half the unowned independent developers.

01:06:32.976 --> 01:06:34.556

Tom: That's good to hear for games, pass owners.

01:06:34.576 --> 01:06:34.816

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:35.236 --> 01:06:40.936

Phil: And they've earned the ability to make a sequel, which has to be a dream come true.

01:06:40.956 --> 01:06:44.096

Phil: Just ask the guys that made The Order 1886.

01:06:44.716 --> 01:06:46.456

Phil: So yeah, they're making a sequel, Tom.

01:06:47.116 --> 01:06:47.696

Tom: I'm excited.

01:06:50.896 --> 01:06:51.116

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:51.136 --> 01:06:56.196

Phil: And so just to take away, yeah, okay, obviously, we're being highly critical of this game because it is comically bad.

01:06:56.516 --> 01:07:00.456

Phil: I do feel a little bit bad about that if the creator was listening to this podcast.

01:07:01.196 --> 01:07:05.376

Tom: But it was also actually really well received and a lot of people love it.

01:07:05.396 --> 01:07:05.696

Phil: Good.

01:07:06.276 --> 01:07:07.536

Phil: I'm glad for that.

01:07:08.216 --> 01:07:17.636

Tom: Even on the show, as I said, apart from it as a ridiculous experience, I genuinely did enjoy the Fox side of the narrative.

01:07:17.656 --> 01:07:18.236

Phil: Oh, me too.

01:07:18.336 --> 01:07:22.136

Tom: And loved the aesthetic of the world design.

01:07:22.136 --> 01:07:26.036

Phil: Yeah, and I didn't like the aesthetic as much, but I did love the Fox stuff.

01:07:26.056 --> 01:07:30.836

Phil: And I think probably what pulled it down was the hokey dialogue.

01:07:32.036 --> 01:07:35.196

Phil: It was obviously what pulled it down and made it comically bad.

01:07:35.216 --> 01:07:35.776

Tom: Absolutely.

01:07:36.676 --> 01:07:50.476

Phil: Other games that we've both played, like Not Tonight and Hot Shot Racing, we might get to, but I've also been playing Yakuza Like a Dragon, which has been in the news this week as well, and Pac-Man 99 as well.

01:07:50.656 --> 01:07:54.776

Phil: But was there a game that you wanted to play or do you want me to yak on for a while?

01:07:56.256 --> 01:07:58.396

Tom: Well, I have just finished the cheeseburger.

01:07:59.076 --> 01:08:00.396

Phil: Oh, I haven't heard about that game.

01:08:00.876 --> 01:08:01.416

Phil: Who published it?

01:08:01.436 --> 01:08:02.396

Tom: And the chips as well.

01:08:02.916 --> 01:08:10.236

Tom: And I should add, I've been washing this down with a Gatorade watermelon flavoured Gatorade.

01:08:10.256 --> 01:08:14.596

Tom: Can you guess what colour the liquid in this Gatorade watermelon is?

01:08:14.616 --> 01:08:18.136

Phil: Well, a watermelon consists of four colours, white, black, red and green.

01:08:18.156 --> 01:08:22.716

Phil: So I'm going to suggest that it is pinkish red.

01:08:24.236 --> 01:08:25.116

Tom: You would be wrong.

01:08:25.116 --> 01:08:26.536

Tom: It is transparent.

01:08:28.156 --> 01:08:28.476

Phil: What?

01:08:29.376 --> 01:08:29.936

Phil: No colour.

01:08:30.996 --> 01:08:31.496

Tom: That's right.

01:08:31.516 --> 01:08:33.616

Tom: It is a colourless, transparent liquid.

01:08:33.636 --> 01:08:41.116

Phil: Well, I respect that because I'm a big fan of colourless beverages, because then you don't have to brush your teeth.

01:08:42.356 --> 01:08:45.816

Tom: So while he has great health advice on diet...

01:08:46.896 --> 01:08:48.396

Phil: Well, unless it's sugary, then of course...

01:08:48.416 --> 01:08:51.256

Tom: I wouldn't recommend you follow his dental hygiene practices.

01:08:51.276 --> 01:08:57.416

Phil: If it's sugary, obviously you have to brush your teeth, but I was assuming that everyone drinks sugar-free beverages.

01:08:58.456 --> 01:09:01.756

Tom: Well, you should also brush your teeth if it is at all acidic as well.

01:09:01.776 --> 01:09:03.676

Tom: Or if it is carbonated.

01:09:03.696 --> 01:09:04.336

Phil: Citric acid.

01:09:04.836 --> 01:09:06.056

Phil: What's wrong with carbonation?

01:09:06.916 --> 01:09:09.716

Tom: Well, carbonation is actually one of the worst things for the teeth.

01:09:09.736 --> 01:09:11.936

Phil: You know, I got a soda stream a few months ago.

01:09:11.936 --> 01:09:13.516

Phil: I'm in love with my soda stream.

01:09:15.176 --> 01:09:17.516

Tom: Have you been making colourless or colour drinks with it?

01:09:17.536 --> 01:09:19.416

Phil: Bit of column A, bit of column B.

01:09:19.436 --> 01:09:21.416

Phil: I'm actually blending a lot of flavours.

01:09:21.436 --> 01:09:23.896

Phil: So I'll get Pepsi Max and I'll blend it with Fanta.

01:09:24.476 --> 01:09:26.416

Phil: So I'm making this like orange cola.

01:09:26.516 --> 01:09:27.376

Phil: It's delicious.

01:09:28.156 --> 01:09:30.416

Phil: And then I'll put some Mountain Dew in there as well.

01:09:30.436 --> 01:09:33.196

Phil: There's a Mountain Dew, they sell Mountain Dew juice as well.

01:09:33.216 --> 01:09:35.016

Phil: So I'll do a Mountain Dew, Fanta.

01:09:35.096 --> 01:09:39.036

Tom: We'll obviously have to have a live on-air taste test of that when you first try that.

01:09:39.056 --> 01:09:43.276

Phil: Yeah, I could send it to you, but I probably wouldn't have any bubbles by the time it got to Lockdown Land.

01:09:44.236 --> 01:09:45.916

Phil: Hey, Lockdown Land, that's a good one.

01:09:45.936 --> 01:09:49.516

Phil: Nintendo Switch.

01:09:49.536 --> 01:09:51.636

Tom: Another potential title for the episode.

01:09:52.016 --> 01:09:55.156

Phil: Oh, the other thing about the release of the Steamdeck, I listened to it.

01:09:55.176 --> 01:09:57.356

Tom: Lockdown Land, you've got your Britpop song.

01:09:57.376 --> 01:09:58.776

Phil: I got my Britpop, Brit.

01:09:58.796 --> 01:10:01.176

Tom: Now you've got your British Scar song, Lockdown Land.

01:10:06.676 --> 01:10:13.676

Phil: The funny thing about the reception to the Steamdeck, the funniest reaction to the release of the Steamdeck is coming from Nintendo.

01:10:13.976 --> 01:10:25.436

Phil: Like if you want a good old laugh, listen to a Nintendo themed podcast, Nintendo Voice Channel on IGN, because they're talking about everything through the context of, oh, is this a threat to Nintendo?

01:10:25.796 --> 01:10:28.136

Phil: Nintendo has sold 85 million switches.

01:10:28.196 --> 01:10:29.196

Phil: I'm not exaggerating.

01:10:29.376 --> 01:10:31.336

Phil: This is not a threat to Nintendo.

01:10:31.356 --> 01:10:34.756

Phil: This is two completely different markets, two different audiences.

01:10:35.796 --> 01:10:44.076

Phil: And they're talking about this like, oh, they announced this on the day that Nintendo announced their OLED, or the day after, you know.

01:10:44.096 --> 01:10:46.776

Phil: And it's like, oh yeah, that's what Valve did.

01:10:46.796 --> 01:10:50.816

Phil: They waited till Nintendo released news about their Switch OLED.

01:10:51.316 --> 01:11:01.576

Phil: Then in a day, they developed the Steamdeck to show Nintendo that Nintendo should have put out a Nintendo Switch Plus or a Super Switch.

01:11:02.156 --> 01:11:05.676

Tom: Well, they may indeed have been waiting until that announcement occurred.

01:11:06.896 --> 01:11:11.396

Tom: So that it didn't get washed under the rug with coverage of that.

01:11:11.416 --> 01:11:14.896

Phil: Yeah, I think the Steamdeck thing would have been notable regardless.

01:11:14.916 --> 01:11:20.116

Phil: But like Nintendo Switch is hitting it out of the park, I don't get the criticism of the OLED.

01:11:21.016 --> 01:11:24.616

Phil: The PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X is just complete.

01:11:24.636 --> 01:11:29.696

Tom: The criticism is that for some unknown reason, people thought there would be a 4K Switch.

01:11:30.076 --> 01:11:33.816

Phil: And I heard the best argument as to why there wouldn't, but I'm not gonna go into that here.

01:11:35.396 --> 01:12:01.536

Tom: Well, the reason why there wouldn't be very simply is why on earth would Nintendo, whose strategy since the Wii has been to not only release lower powered consoles than its rivals, but keep them within the same sort of power range without major changes to the SKUs of their consoles that they release.

01:12:01.896 --> 01:12:16.916

Tom: So if they were to release a 4K Switch, that would be like releasing the PS4 Pro or whatever the Xbox equivalent to that was called, which has not been their strategy whatsoever.

01:12:16.936 --> 01:12:29.076

Tom: This is in line more so with what they've done with the iterations on the DS and so on and so forth, which is clearly where a lot of their design and release strategy for the Switch has come from.

01:12:29.076 --> 01:12:46.836

Phil: Right, and plus the whole, with the best argument I've heard is that because of the component shortages due to COVID in China, if they keep the hardware the same that powers it and everything else, those are orders that they put in years ago.

01:12:47.596 --> 01:12:51.456

Phil: They've got existing supply agreements with those people that produce it.

01:12:52.256 --> 01:12:54.536

Phil: Changing out the OLED screens neither here nor there.

01:12:55.096 --> 01:12:59.536

Phil: It's basically just filling up the same hole, putting a better kickstand on it.

01:12:59.976 --> 01:13:00.956

Phil: It's neither here nor there.

01:13:00.976 --> 01:13:04.636

Phil: That's not a component that's gonna be difficult to fabricate.

01:13:05.056 --> 01:13:16.196

Phil: But if they had done an upgrade of their power, they'd have to look at every single component pretty much of the hardware and then go out and re-contract in a very different post-COVID environment.

01:13:16.636 --> 01:13:18.856

Phil: And it would have just driven up the cost ridiculously.

01:13:19.016 --> 01:13:20.156

Phil: It seems practical.

01:13:20.176 --> 01:13:33.836

Phil: And while they've sold 85 million switches, why rock the boat when their, quote, competition, Sony, PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series, are completely invisible and non-existent in the marketplace?

01:13:34.996 --> 01:13:42.396

Tom: Which is why I would argue that the main reason for them not doing a 4K switch is why would they in the first place?

01:13:42.416 --> 01:13:43.836

Phil: Exactly, yeah, exactly.

01:13:43.856 --> 01:13:58.236

Phil: And hey, you know, if you haven't bought a switch yet, the news of the OLED with the greater storage capacity as well and better battery life, you know, for 50 bucks more, it's a no-brainer.

01:13:59.176 --> 01:14:01.756

Phil: But for existing switch owners, is it a reason to upgrade?

01:14:02.456 --> 01:14:03.816

Phil: Not unless your current one's broken.

01:14:04.456 --> 01:14:10.156

Phil: So anyway, the Furore has been hilarious to me, or rather sadly typical.

01:14:12.356 --> 01:14:17.936

Phil: With that, I guess we should probably go on to an old standby of the game, and that's Yakuza.

01:14:18.576 --> 01:14:21.416

Phil: I've been playing Yakuza Like a Dragon religiously.

01:14:22.096 --> 01:14:22.756

Phil: For the last few...

01:14:22.776 --> 01:14:25.076

Tom: What does it mean to play a game like a dragon?

01:14:25.776 --> 01:14:32.016

Phil: Well, I've been playing Yakuza, colon, like a dragon, end quote, name of game.

01:14:32.036 --> 01:14:35.096

Tom: You know, I'm gonna interrupt you there, because...

01:14:35.116 --> 01:14:36.976

Tom: Ha ha ha ha!

01:14:37.896 --> 01:14:41.776

Tom: That just reminded me that we forgot about Before I Forget.

01:14:42.916 --> 01:14:43.476

Phil: Forget what?

01:14:44.436 --> 01:14:44.976

Tom: Exactly.

01:14:44.996 --> 01:14:51.736

Tom: So we just need to quickly cover that before we get to your new way of playing games, which I believe is like a dragon.

01:14:52.196 --> 01:14:54.416

Phil: I've been drinking this beer like a dragon too, so...

01:14:54.436 --> 01:15:01.116

Phil: Hey, Before I Forget is available as a part of the Amazon Prime game service, not a sponsor.

01:15:02.236 --> 01:15:05.816

Phil: On the PC, it was released in 2020, and it got some...

01:15:05.836 --> 01:15:07.236

Tom: Please get in touch with us, Amazon.

01:15:07.256 --> 01:15:14.656

Tom: I think, as you can tell from our McDonald's and Mountain Dew and Dorito coverage, we are excellent at promoting things.

01:15:14.676 --> 01:15:15.856

Phil: Not to mention SodaStream.

01:15:17.376 --> 01:15:28.636

Phil: But Before I Forget is the name of the game that was released on PC in 2020 by a company called Threefold Studios, which I can't see that they've made much before.

01:15:30.176 --> 01:15:33.196

Tom: Nor after, but they are working on a project currently.

01:15:33.216 --> 01:15:34.276

Phil: I'm sure they are.

01:15:34.576 --> 01:15:44.756

Phil: It was critically acclaimed, or at least won some awards over in Euroland, which is probably where they're from, Threefold Studios, made mostly by two people when I reviewed the credits.

01:15:45.216 --> 01:15:50.116

Phil: And it's a game about early onset dementia.

01:15:50.136 --> 01:16:04.716

Phil: So the Eurogamer did a story about this Before I Forget game, which is pretty good called Before I Forget how Two Strangers made one of 2020's most moving games, which is hilarious to me.

01:16:05.776 --> 01:16:07.076

Phil: But it's still worth a read.

01:16:07.236 --> 01:16:09.856

Tom: For a start, she could barely move in the game.

01:16:10.576 --> 01:16:20.596

Phil: Well, in the game, basically, you're playing it from a first person perspective in a very pleasant but small house in England, presumably London.

01:16:21.816 --> 01:16:29.516

Phil: And you are an academic, and you've been married to another academic, both of whom were highly successful in their fields.

01:16:30.176 --> 01:16:42.936

Phil: And you essentially walk around in a PT-style way, remembering things and then basically blacking out sort of because you've got early onset dementia.

01:16:43.616 --> 01:16:53.416

Phil: And through all of this, you're telling a story, and as you remember things, as you pick up things, it will paint or illuminate things in each room.

01:16:55.176 --> 01:17:02.156

Phil: And then there's sort of a mystery as well that's going on because there's notes around the place that you don't remember writing to yourself.

01:17:02.156 --> 01:17:18.676

Phil: Sort of in a memento, the movie style with Guy Pearce, you're kind of trying to remember certain things, so you're not quite sure if this person you're referring to is a nasty person or what's going on in your notes.

01:17:19.456 --> 01:17:24.136

Phil: Does that pretty much sum up or just give a basic intro to the game?

01:17:24.476 --> 01:17:24.976

Tom: It does.

01:17:24.996 --> 01:17:26.856

Tom: I like the comparisons there as well.

01:17:27.116 --> 01:17:28.816

Tom: PT and memento.

01:17:29.936 --> 01:17:40.316

Phil: Yes, and I also found it evocative of a game, The Path from the Tale of Tales studio that we both love, The Makers of Sunset.

01:17:40.336 --> 01:17:41.076

Tom: Yes.

01:17:42.176 --> 01:17:47.516

Phil: The Path, for whatever reason, this game evoked the path to me, and I think it did to you as well.

01:17:49.576 --> 01:17:53.096

Tom: Is The Path the graveyard one, or the Little Red Riding Hood one?

01:17:53.876 --> 01:17:59.616

Phil: The Path is the walking through a forest one, is how I remember it.

01:18:00.276 --> 01:18:02.776

Tom: I think that's the Little Red Riding Hood one.

01:18:03.616 --> 01:18:03.956

Tom: Yes.

01:18:06.496 --> 01:18:26.376

Phil: Comically, the only other thing I have to say about this game is comically at the end of this game, they reveal how your partner died, and I'm not going to spoil it here, but I was like, going how the dialogue has gone in this game, please don't use a sound effect.

01:18:27.716 --> 01:18:31.636

Phil: And then they used the most obvious sound effect.

01:18:33.016 --> 01:18:42.616

Phil: And I could see it, it was like a car crash in slow motion, and I'm not spoiling anything here, but it was like watching an accident in slow motion.

01:18:42.636 --> 01:18:43.796

Phil: You could see it coming.

01:18:44.116 --> 01:18:47.756

Phil: You're like, Oh God, please no, they're not going to do that, are they?

01:18:48.556 --> 01:18:49.296

Phil: Then they did it.

01:18:50.676 --> 01:18:58.176

Phil: And it completely knocked the legs out from under any seriousness that the game had.

01:18:58.196 --> 01:19:07.896

Phil: And it was kind of crazy because, you know, whatever you think of the game, they had got to the end, they'd got to the crescendo, and it is a very short game.

01:19:09.576 --> 01:19:25.996

Phil: And then just to have it, you know, what we talk about and what everyone talks about is that when you have a stage show or a musical, you want the crowd, you want to end with a banger so that when the crowd's walking out of the lobby, they're humming the song, you know, the last song that they heard.

01:19:26.516 --> 01:19:38.276

Phil: You want that audience catharsis where everything, you know, you went on a ride and at the end, everything pulled together and you're like, yeah, yeah, before I forget, I'm going to tell my friends about it.

01:19:39.056 --> 01:19:41.996

Phil: But they ended up with this comically bad folly work.

01:19:42.956 --> 01:19:44.116

Phil: It was just so bad.

01:19:44.756 --> 01:19:56.516

Tom: Anyway, I think, I think, Gargan's description of it is, and I'm not saying I agree with it on this game, but I think it's going to be that it doesn't matter how good the trip is if you arrive at Shit Mountain.

01:19:58.376 --> 01:19:59.476

Phil: I have heard him say that.

01:20:01.856 --> 01:20:02.436

Phil: That's funny.

01:20:02.896 --> 01:20:06.596

Phil: So did you add anything here about Before I Forget the game?

01:20:07.256 --> 01:20:30.076

Tom: Well, we are going to have to get in to spoiler territory, but before that, I would just say the thing I found most interesting and perhaps most ineffective about it was it is about early onset dementia and someone losing their memories and not being able to make sense of things due to not having memories.

01:20:30.336 --> 01:20:41.736

Tom: But the structure of the narrative is that as you're going along, you learn more and more of her memories and more of what's going on is revealed.

01:20:42.056 --> 01:20:48.576

Tom: So I thought that made it perhaps not very effective at the thing it was trying to depict.

01:20:49.616 --> 01:20:52.956

Tom: And that would probably be my biggest issue with the game.

01:20:52.976 --> 01:21:05.216

Phil: Maybe if in the game you, as a mechanic, took a B12 pill like every day and so you finally beat onset dementia and then you come out of it and you're, you know.

01:21:05.296 --> 01:21:06.796

Tom: You have to solve Sudoku puns.

01:21:06.916 --> 01:21:08.256

Tom: Yeah.

01:21:09.156 --> 01:21:11.396

Phil: No, play Brain Age on a virtual DS.

01:21:14.796 --> 01:21:19.236

Tom: Just lower your Brain Age until she gets to the car sound effect.

01:21:19.816 --> 01:21:23.856

Phil: Again, you wanted to spoil some things or?

01:21:24.656 --> 01:21:27.316

Tom: Yes, we have to get into spoiler territory.

01:21:27.356 --> 01:21:28.736

Phil: Is this game worth spoiling?

01:21:29.976 --> 01:21:55.336

Tom: I think it is, I think it is because there's one other interesting thing about it other than the, I think rather large failure that it is a game about early onset dementia and the entire story and the conclusion of the story is with her working out her memories, where I would suggest that the problem with memory loss and dementia would be the fact that you can't do that.

01:21:56.796 --> 01:22:42.396

Tom: So the other interesting direction I think it could have gone in is rather than her husband, and we're now into spoilers, rather than her husband dying in a comical sound effect complete car crash, having left her with the subtext being due to her dementia, which I think would have been probably a lot more impactful and too much more societally interesting because a large number of divorces are indeed often caused by, specifically a woman's significant health problem or disability.

01:22:43.256 --> 01:22:55.156

Tom: So it could have gone in a much more interesting direction, not just in how the story was told where it's essentially the reverse of the thing, but I also think it could have gone in a more interesting direction in terms of the actual plot as well.

01:22:55.176 --> 01:22:55.716

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:22:55.736 --> 01:23:03.096

Phil: In terms of representation, I have to say, the character that you're playing is a woman of Indian heritage.

01:23:03.116 --> 01:23:06.356

Phil: So, you know, I mean, that's not usual in a video game.

01:23:06.356 --> 01:23:13.016

Phil: So I don't know if that reflects the background of the people that made the game and is therefore somewhat lazy.

01:23:14.236 --> 01:23:15.656

Phil: But, you know, it was worth noting.

01:23:15.656 --> 01:23:17.696

Phil: I mean, diversity is generally a good thing.

01:23:19.076 --> 01:23:19.396

Tom: Sure.

01:23:20.496 --> 01:23:25.116

Tom: And actually, the most interesting parts in the narrative, I thought, though, again, they didn't...

01:23:25.716 --> 01:23:55.676

Tom: And this part did perhaps potentially go to some of the dementia stuff, were the flashbacks to her experiences with her aunt, I think, in getting her into astrology, with that getting in the way potentially of her attempting to work out practical, immediate things and more important, not more important, but other important memories that she was trying to find to help her figure out what was going on in the present.

01:23:55.696 --> 01:23:59.596

Tom: So that was one area where I think they did succeed in an interesting way.

01:23:59.616 --> 01:24:11.156

Phil: Absolutely, and if the game had been longer or better budgeted or whatever, better resourced, maybe there would have been more of that, where you could see other people in your life making similar type of contributions.

01:24:11.176 --> 01:24:13.196

Phil: But I thought that was pretty good, actually.

01:24:13.216 --> 01:24:16.656

Phil: I appreciated that little juncture.

01:24:17.596 --> 01:24:23.916

Tom: And one other, I think, successful depiction of it was the seizure in the hall.

01:24:24.396 --> 01:24:26.036

Phil: Right, yeah, that was good, too.

01:24:26.216 --> 01:24:27.696

Phil: So, one of the...

01:24:28.256 --> 01:24:30.216

Tom: It does do some things quite interesting.

01:24:30.236 --> 01:24:43.916

Phil: One of the mechanics of this, just to explain this to the listener, is that you'll open a door and you'll go into a room and it looks like a closet, but then when you come out of the room, it's not a closet, and so you're kind of getting lost in your own home as well, which helps contribute.

01:24:44.036 --> 01:24:45.276

Tom: Absent seizures.

01:24:45.396 --> 01:24:51.116

Phil: Which helps contribute to that disorienting, capturing what must be...

01:24:52.216 --> 01:25:03.576

Phil: I've had various disorienting experiences in my life, albeit very few, very, very few, and yeah, I thought they captured that quite well, almost to the point of inducing nausea.

01:25:04.476 --> 01:25:15.076

Tom: And also, there was also, I've forgotten the technical term, but the seizure that was always in the hall, which was a carpet that was highly patterned.

01:25:15.096 --> 01:25:21.716

Tom: You couldn't see the carpet, but there was just this black hole type thing in the hall that you couldn't pass, which was also very well done.

01:25:21.736 --> 01:25:28.596

Phil: I thought that was a representation of a mobile phone dead spot that you couldn't get reception in that part of the house.

01:25:28.756 --> 01:25:30.676

Tom: You couldn't get a GPS in the house there.

01:25:30.696 --> 01:25:34.156

Phil: That's why you had to avoid it, because otherwise your calls would come out.

01:25:34.176 --> 01:25:35.976

Phil: Okay, I see your interpretation too.

01:25:37.596 --> 01:25:38.676

Phil: So yeah, I mean, it's obviously...

01:25:38.816 --> 01:25:40.676

Tom: My interpretation is the correct one.

01:25:41.096 --> 01:25:43.276

Tom: That is a fact that that's what that was.

01:25:43.336 --> 01:25:54.796

Phil: Okay, so like, you know, I was pretty flipped in my description of this game earlier, probably because we just came off the Like a Tree or game or whatever it was called, My First Tree, but...

01:25:55.236 --> 01:25:57.856

Tom: I think it's because you were still in Dragon energy mode.

01:25:57.856 --> 01:25:59.576

Phil: I was still playing like a dragon.

01:26:00.676 --> 01:26:10.816

Phil: But yeah, this game does do some good things and some memorable things and it's certainly worth playing and it's free on Epic Games, so at least it was at some point.

01:26:10.836 --> 01:26:13.556

Phil: You'd probably pick it up somewhere else on Niche or something like that as well.

01:26:13.636 --> 01:26:15.456

Tom: I think it was free on Amazon Prime.

01:26:15.476 --> 01:26:16.856

Tom: Oh, that's right.

01:26:16.876 --> 01:26:17.976

Phil: I had it on Amazon Prime.

01:26:17.996 --> 01:26:18.196

Phil: Yes.

01:26:18.616 --> 01:26:18.876

Tom: Yep.

01:26:20.096 --> 01:26:24.976

Tom: But I think it's time for you to finally release your Dragon energy.

01:26:24.996 --> 01:26:27.976

Phil: Okay, I'm going to release the Dragon.

01:26:28.556 --> 01:26:29.696

Phil: Yakuza Like a Dragon.

01:26:29.696 --> 01:26:35.556

Phil: We used to have a Yakuza Killzone Minute where I would talk about my favorite game, Tom would talk about his favorite game.

01:26:36.216 --> 01:26:53.816

Phil: Who would have thought that many years past that Killzone would have been limited to just four games, and Yakuza, again, another instance of cultural appropriation as more and more gamers flocked to the license, just becomes basically everything that Sega does.

01:26:54.996 --> 01:27:05.116

Phil: So that's kind of weird, but I guess in some way you won because the guy behind the Killzone studio is now running the Sony Worldwide Games Division.

01:27:06.956 --> 01:27:07.556

Phil: Hans would...

01:27:07.576 --> 01:27:10.236

Tom: I think it's also quite predictable as well because...

01:27:10.256 --> 01:27:13.916

Phil: Because he's German, and they always climb to the highest ranks.

01:27:16.856 --> 01:27:19.956

Tom: Except in Imperialism, where they always fail, unfortunately.

01:27:19.976 --> 01:27:20.976

Phil: I don't know if he is German.

01:27:20.996 --> 01:27:21.856

Phil: We're talking, of course, about...

01:27:21.876 --> 01:27:22.376

Phil: What's his name?

01:27:22.396 --> 01:27:22.796

Phil: Helmut?

01:27:24.756 --> 01:27:25.876

Tom: Helmut, are we?

01:27:26.096 --> 01:27:27.096

Tom: Helmut Marco?

01:27:30.116 --> 01:27:38.876

Phil: Look, you find out his real name, but he's running Sony's worldwide gaming studios now, and he was the guy behind the Killzone guerrilla games.

01:27:39.416 --> 01:27:48.616

Phil: And he's had a few missteps, but, you know, obviously Sony is still doing well with their strategy, but possibly not as well as Sega is doing with Yakuza.

01:27:49.416 --> 01:27:57.816

Phil: The whole Yakuza Zero, followed by the Yakuza Kiwami remakes of the series, have been wildly successful and popular.

01:27:59.116 --> 01:28:09.416

Phil: And of course, they've made Judgment, which was the first, you know, quote original game in many years, Judgment Eyes, as it was released in Japan.

01:28:10.756 --> 01:28:24.996

Phil: And it's been in the news this week because basically Sega announced some time ago that Yakuza Like a Dragon, which is an RPG, a turn-based RPG, is going to be the way Yakuza is from now on.

01:28:25.016 --> 01:28:30.216

Phil: It's no longer going to be a street brawler game, as it has been.

01:28:30.756 --> 01:28:38.116

Phil: And that they basically are going to continue their Yakuza gameplay as a brawler with the Judgment Eye series.

01:28:39.636 --> 01:28:40.376

Phil: But this week...

01:28:40.896 --> 01:28:43.436

Tom: What was the gameplay in The First Judgment?

01:28:44.356 --> 01:28:47.076

Phil: In The First Judgment, it was basically Yakuza.

01:28:47.136 --> 01:28:48.956

Phil: And, you know, obviously they used...

01:28:49.056 --> 01:28:54.536

Phil: It's still set in Kamuroko, and it has all of the same art assets and everything else.

01:28:54.996 --> 01:28:55.796

Phil: You basically...

01:28:56.116 --> 01:29:01.736

Phil: It has added elements, but at its sole, it is basically a traditional Yakuza game.

01:29:03.316 --> 01:29:07.156

Phil: So, but they've announced that Yakuza Like a Dragon is now going to be Yakuza.

01:29:07.176 --> 01:29:08.936

Phil: That is all that it's going to be.

01:29:09.956 --> 01:29:16.096

Phil: So obviously I came to it late because I was skeptical about how this would work.

01:29:16.156 --> 01:29:21.256

Phil: But Like a Dragon is a direct reference to Dragon Warrior or Dragon Quest, rather.

01:29:23.556 --> 01:29:24.236

Phil: And it started...

01:29:24.296 --> 01:29:24.656

Tom: Is it?

01:29:25.996 --> 01:29:26.736

Tom: How does that work?

01:29:26.756 --> 01:29:28.636

Phil: Well, it started out as an April Fools joke.

01:29:28.656 --> 01:29:35.256

Phil: They basically said that they were going to turn Yakuza into a turn-based RPG.

01:29:36.116 --> 01:29:36.616

Tom: I see.

01:29:36.776 --> 01:29:39.156

Phil: But then everyone was like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

01:29:39.156 --> 01:29:47.116

Phil: And in Yakuza Zero and Kiwami, they've made these overt references to Drakuei, as it's called in Japan, Dragon Quest.

01:29:48.416 --> 01:29:50.376

Phil: And basically, it's Yakuza.

01:29:50.516 --> 01:29:57.956

Phil: It's got enduring characters with loyalties to authority that aren't earned.

01:29:57.976 --> 01:29:59.696

Phil: Essentially, it's another orphan story.

01:30:02.276 --> 01:30:08.416

Phil: So it's like Yakuza in every other way, except when you get into battle, instead of brawling, it's now a turn-based RPG.

01:30:08.476 --> 01:30:09.336

Phil: You've got a team.

01:30:10.396 --> 01:30:11.496

Phil: They can cast spells.

01:30:11.836 --> 01:30:13.896

Phil: They can heal each other.

01:30:15.036 --> 01:30:17.296

Phil: You fight, then the other team fights.

01:30:17.776 --> 01:30:19.996

Phil: It's a turn-based RPG.

01:30:21.796 --> 01:30:22.836

Phil: And it's spectacular.

01:30:22.916 --> 01:30:24.956

Phil: I mean, they've done an outstanding job with it.

01:30:24.976 --> 01:30:29.156

Phil: It's actually very, very good and enjoyable.

01:30:31.156 --> 01:30:33.476

Phil: And it's been ridiculously successful.

01:30:37.196 --> 01:30:55.516

Phil: So as has their PC conversion of the Kiwami games and everything else, so basically they wanted to bring judgment to PC, but the lead actor in that game, he's represented by a talent agency, and the talent agency is saying, no, that wasn't a part of the original contract.

01:30:55.536 --> 01:30:58.376

Phil: You can't release judgment on PC.

01:31:00.876 --> 01:31:04.336

Phil: And as a result, Sega has turned around and said, well, we're not going to release judgment.

01:31:04.616 --> 01:31:14.056

Phil: I mean, we'll do the current judgment game, we'll release it for the consoles, but after that, it's not going to be financially viable for us unless we can release it on the PC.

01:31:14.656 --> 01:31:21.956

Phil: So what's not known is how much of this is posturing and negotiation.

01:31:24.456 --> 01:31:38.236

Phil: The talent agency for the lead actor in the game, because it's not just his voice, but also his likeness that is used, they're known to be very controlling and protective and anti-internet, whatever that means, or anti-PC.

01:31:38.256 --> 01:31:43.556

Phil: And obviously PC in Japan has a different connotation to what it does in the Western world.

01:31:44.176 --> 01:31:50.336

Phil: Most PC games in Japan have a darker side, more sexually oriented.

01:31:51.716 --> 01:32:03.616

Phil: They might be trying to protect their talent because they don't want people to rip out the character model and make him nude and do a David Cage type thing with him.

01:32:03.636 --> 01:32:04.916

Phil: They might be very protective of him.

01:32:04.956 --> 01:32:10.116

Phil: If they didn't cover a PC release in the original contract, then they're entitled to protect their client.

01:32:11.796 --> 01:32:13.476

Phil: Why Sega would say...

01:32:13.496 --> 01:32:18.276

Tom: To put it simply, as part of their PC-ness, they're very anti-PC.

01:32:18.496 --> 01:32:19.376

Phil: That's right.

01:32:19.396 --> 01:32:27.996

Phil: I don't know if Sega is saying this, that we're not going to release any more judgements as a negotiating chip, because obviously they could just change the lead character.

01:32:29.116 --> 01:32:39.996

Phil: The lead actor that plays the character in Japan is very famous and well known, and obviously his role has contributed to the success of the game.

01:32:40.716 --> 01:32:46.336

Phil: But ultimately, the game's success can survive without that guy.

01:32:47.216 --> 01:32:55.156

Phil: This is really just Sega screaming desperately to try and release these games on PC, because it's such good revenue for them.

01:32:56.396 --> 01:33:13.736

Phil: I'm not blaming either side, but after they've said that Yakuza from now on is going to be a turn-based RPG and that Judgment is going to be the brawler, that was pretty much how Sega was setting things up so that everyone could have their cake and eat it too.

01:33:15.176 --> 01:33:17.936

Phil: But any other questions about Yakuza Like a Dragon?

01:33:19.816 --> 01:33:22.836

Tom: Well, isn't it a bit disappointing that it is an RPG though?

01:33:22.856 --> 01:33:43.396

Tom: Because while Yakuza was always compared to Grand Theft Auto and sometimes indeed to RPGs, it was a totally unique mix of beat-em-up RPG, sort of open world in the one package that was actually unlike any other game.

01:33:43.396 --> 01:33:53.936

Tom: If you do change the combat to turn-based RPG style combat, is that not perhaps making it a little less unique and interesting?

01:33:53.976 --> 01:33:56.476

Phil: I'd say it's making it more unique and interesting.

01:33:56.496 --> 01:33:58.396

Phil: And I was skeptical when I came into this.

01:33:58.396 --> 01:34:01.936

Phil: I was very skeptical when I came into this, which is why I delayed buying it.

01:34:03.996 --> 01:34:09.796

Phil: But in every other way, up until you get into a battle, this is a Yakuza game.

01:34:10.256 --> 01:34:10.716

Phil: Nothing has changed.

01:34:10.736 --> 01:34:11.576

Phil: Nothing has changed.

01:34:11.696 --> 01:34:14.596

Phil: Everything is exactly the same as a previous Yakuza game.

01:34:15.656 --> 01:34:19.376

Phil: Only an evolution of, you know, like every game got better.

01:34:20.016 --> 01:34:22.236

Phil: It's only when you go into battle that it's turn-based.

01:34:22.596 --> 01:34:23.936

Phil: And if...

01:34:23.976 --> 01:34:32.536

Tom: But when you do go into battle, is one of the unique and interesting things, because that aspect of it is the world exploration structure of an RPG.

01:34:32.736 --> 01:34:35.336

Tom: Yet when you get into a battle, it is not an RPG.

01:34:35.356 --> 01:34:39.616

Phil: But the world exploration is less RPG and more...

01:34:39.636 --> 01:34:41.476

Phil: I don't even know what it is.

01:34:43.596 --> 01:34:55.436

Phil: In the battle, because I'm an experienced player of Yakuza, like actually that was the most boring part of the game for me, because I just basically go in there and I knew all of the combos, and I'd press the combos and get out of it.

01:34:55.456 --> 01:35:12.196

Phil: So for me, changing it up and making it be not just you versus the world, but to have four different characters, each with different strengths and weaknesses, and then looking at the enemies uniquely, because the enemies are also not just there to be beaten up.

01:35:12.236 --> 01:35:15.276

Phil: I mean, they're all different as well, just like in an RPG.

01:35:15.296 --> 01:35:20.456

Phil: So it actually increases the interest in battle.

01:35:21.876 --> 01:35:29.436

Phil: For someone who basically treated the battles before as something that had to be gotten through, because they weren't a challenge at all.

01:35:30.256 --> 01:35:44.616

Phil: So one interesting thing that they have, which has probably become commonplace in turn-based RPGs, is basically you press L2 to turn the battle onto auto.

01:35:45.416 --> 01:35:56.676

Phil: So if you come up against enemies that are lower ranked than you, and you know it's going to be a pretty perfunctory thing, you can just press L2 and they'll go through the battle for you.

01:35:57.096 --> 01:36:08.796

Phil: Which sounds completely boring, but in this multi-screen environment in which we all live, it's kind of a welcome respite where you can just sort of do something else for a little while.

01:36:08.916 --> 01:36:13.096

Phil: Which, this is crazy, we're playing video games as a distraction from the real world.

01:36:13.096 --> 01:36:15.876

Phil: So you shouldn't want to jump back into the real world for a little while.

01:36:16.636 --> 01:36:26.376

Phil: So possibly the best thing about the auto battle is when you're in a big battle and then you get down to the last guy and you're like, okay, you know, I don't need to think about this.

01:36:26.396 --> 01:36:29.676

Phil: You can just press L2 and have a drink or something.

01:36:30.556 --> 01:36:32.816

Phil: Or grab some food or something and then come back to it.

01:36:33.916 --> 01:36:36.176

Phil: But yeah, I mean, Like a Dragon is great.

01:36:36.196 --> 01:36:37.116

Phil: It's a good experience.

01:36:38.376 --> 01:36:39.856

Phil: I think I'm about 19 hours in.

01:36:39.876 --> 01:36:41.996

Phil: I'm not sure how long this game is going to be.

01:36:42.376 --> 01:36:47.796

Phil: I think I'm on chapter five or six and it's probably going to be 22 chapters like most Yakuza games are.

01:36:49.036 --> 01:36:49.816

Phil: But overall...

01:36:49.836 --> 01:36:51.676

Tom: It'll be long if it's like the other ones.

01:36:52.156 --> 01:36:53.736

Phil: Yes, yeah, exactly.

01:36:54.696 --> 01:36:57.776

Phil: So, but yeah, positive experience and people are loving it.

01:36:58.416 --> 01:37:01.376

Phil: It's been a great entry point for people who have never played the game before.

01:37:02.316 --> 01:37:02.616

Tom: Um...

01:37:03.816 --> 01:37:11.176

Phil: Yeah, so again, I'm feeling my culture being appropriated again, uh, with another thing taken away from me.

01:37:13.256 --> 01:37:49.396

Tom: I think it's quite interesting the whole, um, PC fiasco one gets the sense that it has been massively successful on PC just judging by the number of people in my friend list anyway and other people that I know who have played it on PC, who did not previously play it on console, even if they had a Sony console, so it's interesting seeing that that is probably the case, that it has been as, probably equally successful in terms of sales on PC as it has been on the console.

01:37:50.196 --> 01:37:55.196

Phil: Yeah, I think on the consoles too, because they do have a current gen, that i.e.

01:37:55.336 --> 01:38:04.496

Phil: Xbox series or PlayStation 5 version, there's not a lot of games to buy, so it's succeeded there a little bit as well.

01:38:06.416 --> 01:38:18.536

Phil: I'm playing it on the PlayStation 4, I've got to say it's probably a step back from Yakuza Kiwami and Yakuza Zero in terms of its load time and appearance, probably because it was being optimized for the current gen.

01:38:20.096 --> 01:38:26.996

Phil: But it doesn't bother me, I mean it's still miles ahead of where Yakuza used to be in those elements.

01:38:30.476 --> 01:38:39.616

Phil: So, an unequivocal must buy, I would say, if you like the Yakuza world and you have time to play an RPG.

01:38:40.536 --> 01:38:44.636

Phil: I'd love to play it on the Switch, I'd love to have the flexibility of playing it on a portable platform.

01:38:47.376 --> 01:38:48.556

Phil: it's not available on Switch.

01:38:50.916 --> 01:38:52.196

Tom: nor will it apparently be...

01:38:52.276 --> 01:38:55.536

Tom: Wait, no, it is on Steam, isn't it?

01:38:55.556 --> 01:38:57.296

Tom: So you could play it on Steamdeck.

01:38:57.316 --> 01:39:00.316

Phil: Yeah, I could, but again, not being sold in Australia.

01:39:00.816 --> 01:39:01.676

Phil: I want to go back to that.

01:39:01.876 --> 01:39:13.656

Phil: Just to give you an idea of what the price could be, the stupid Atari VCS, which is a horrible, horrible reinvention of the Atari, retails in the States for like $450.

01:39:13.876 --> 01:39:15.656

Phil: Down here, it's close to $900.

01:39:16.656 --> 01:39:18.036

Phil: Because it hasn't been released here.

01:39:18.336 --> 01:39:20.596

Phil: It's just like being imported and sold.

01:39:21.616 --> 01:39:27.316

Phil: So that's, I mean, look, I want a Steamdeck, but I don't want to pay $1200 for one.

01:39:27.576 --> 01:39:27.956

Phil: You know?

01:39:29.336 --> 01:39:32.956

Tom: I think the Valve Index, for example, is something like $3,000 here.

01:39:33.076 --> 01:39:34.136

Tom: If you want to get one from eBay.

01:39:34.156 --> 01:39:34.856

Phil: That's crazy.

01:39:36.316 --> 01:39:42.516

Phil: I mean, it's, you know, people spend whatever you want to spend, but like, would I spend $800 on it?

01:39:42.896 --> 01:39:43.756

Phil: Yeah, no problem.

01:39:44.236 --> 01:39:46.896

Phil: But I'm not going to spend $1,200 on like the top one.

01:39:47.536 --> 01:39:50.136

Phil: Yeah, it's going to be...

01:39:50.156 --> 01:39:59.636

Phil: And I've got to say this to people that the difference is, is that, well, I've got a PC that's capable of playing all this, so why would I want a handheld?

01:40:00.816 --> 01:40:07.516

Phil: Just because of the environment in which I live, I can't sit down in front of a computer for two hours and play a video game.

01:40:08.616 --> 01:40:11.776

Phil: Particularly when I've been at work for 10 hours sitting in front of a PC.

01:40:11.796 --> 01:40:14.556

Phil: The last thing I want to do is come home and sit in front of another PC.

01:40:15.876 --> 01:40:23.836

Phil: And I like the idea of it being console-ized because it doesn't have all the distractions that my PC is delivering up to me.

01:40:25.576 --> 01:40:30.516

Phil: I'm not going to be getting instant messages and emails and tempted to read the news and stuff like that.

01:40:30.536 --> 01:40:32.276

Phil: I'll just be concentrated on playing.

01:40:32.856 --> 01:40:35.316

Phil: But that is the last thing I'll say about the Steamdeck.

01:40:36.856 --> 01:40:41.236

Phil: I think there's another game we both want to play about, and what's it called?

01:40:41.416 --> 01:40:46.976

Tom: I would add, though, you should try Steam Link with your phone or something like that.

01:40:47.736 --> 01:40:50.996

Phil: I have tried Steam Link and playing on the Android itself.

01:40:51.896 --> 01:40:54.896

Phil: It's just a matter of how do I do that and get it on the TV.

01:40:55.436 --> 01:41:03.016

Phil: But keep in mind, you know, in a shared home, a TV is not my exclusive domain.

01:41:03.216 --> 01:41:14.976

Phil: So that's one of the benefits of these portable platforms, is that, you know, something else can be on the TV, but I could still be with my family, you know, playing on a portable device.

01:41:15.676 --> 01:41:16.036

Phil: So...

01:41:17.216 --> 01:41:19.656

Phil: But what was the name of the other game that we wanted to play?

01:41:20.316 --> 01:41:21.156

Tom: Not Tonight.

01:41:21.296 --> 01:41:22.516

Phil: Oh, you don't want to do it tonight?

01:41:24.256 --> 01:41:24.596

Tom: Yes.

01:41:25.396 --> 01:41:26.556

Phil: But what was the name of the game?

01:41:27.576 --> 01:41:28.896

Tom: I think it was Not Tonight.

01:41:28.996 --> 01:41:33.196

Phil: I get that you're short on time, and, you know, we have done this podcast in a long time.

01:41:33.216 --> 01:41:35.396

Phil: But before I forget, what was the name of the game?

01:41:37.396 --> 01:41:42.256

Tom: If you would have saved a little bit more Dragon energy, you might have been able to get it.

01:41:42.276 --> 01:41:42.756

Phil: That's true.

01:41:43.696 --> 01:41:44.556

Tom: Sadly, you didn't.

01:41:45.076 --> 01:41:51.556

Phil: Well, the final thing we'll be talking about tonight is a game developed by Panic Bam Pub.

01:41:54.896 --> 01:41:56.596

Phil: The developer is Panic Bam.

01:41:56.616 --> 01:41:57.876

Phil: The publisher is no more.

01:41:57.896 --> 01:41:59.696

Tom: I think it's Panic Bam, isn't it?

01:42:01.436 --> 01:42:01.816

Tom: Yes.

01:42:03.776 --> 01:42:05.356

Phil: The publisher is no more Robots.

01:42:06.496 --> 01:42:09.416

Phil: No more Robots is a really good publisher, I should say.

01:42:09.476 --> 01:42:11.256

Phil: And the name of the game is not tonight.

01:42:12.096 --> 01:42:17.116

Phil: No more Robots published, Hypnospace Outlaw and New Lexico.

01:42:17.136 --> 01:42:19.496

Phil: New Lexico is a dirt bike game.

01:42:20.736 --> 01:42:22.276

Phil: They're a real up and coming publisher.

01:42:22.296 --> 01:42:23.936

Phil: They're kind of a devolver junior.

01:42:23.996 --> 01:42:29.476

Phil: I see them because they're developing these edgy, but very well made games.

01:42:29.676 --> 01:42:37.056

Phil: Like New Lexico is apparently great, and Hypnospace Outlaw I played for some time, but burnt out on.

01:42:37.836 --> 01:42:44.996

Phil: But Not Tonight is basically a work simulator, which is very close in many ways to Papers, Please.

01:42:45.516 --> 01:42:48.616

Phil: And has some overt references to Papers, Please.

01:42:50.716 --> 01:42:52.616

Phil: And you're basically working...

01:42:53.296 --> 01:42:58.116

Phil: It was funny because you had sent me a code for this to play on Steam.

01:42:59.216 --> 01:43:03.996

Phil: And it's the opening screen basically has a...

01:43:05.996 --> 01:43:06.716

Phil: What do you call it?

01:43:06.736 --> 01:43:09.936

Phil: A Ferris wheel that's knocked over.

01:43:11.136 --> 01:43:16.436

Phil: And it's very clearly Britain, because you can see the pickle building in the background and Big Ben and all that sort of thing.

01:43:16.476 --> 01:43:25.316

Phil: And I went, oh, this is going to be about Brexit, because I saw the Ferris wheel as being like the Eurostar symbol, and something's gone wrong in a rye in Britain.

01:43:25.356 --> 01:43:26.496

Phil: It's going to be about Brexit.

01:43:27.596 --> 01:43:30.156

Phil: And then it is about Brexit.

01:43:30.596 --> 01:43:40.176

Phil: You're living in a post-Brexit world where nationalism is the default philosophy.

01:43:40.716 --> 01:43:54.916

Phil: And basically, even though you get to select a character at the very start of the game, and I think all of the characters are essentially people who have been misidentified as foreigners, even though they were born in England.

01:43:55.756 --> 01:43:56.236

Tom: Correct.

01:43:56.256 --> 01:44:02.996

Phil: But due to some clerical error or administration error, you've been identified as being French or whatever.

01:44:04.456 --> 01:44:11.596

Phil: And you have to basically prove your worth by taking on a menial job and living in a slum.

01:44:11.736 --> 01:44:12.536

Tom: As a bouncer.

01:44:12.636 --> 01:44:14.056

Phil: Yep, as a bouncer.

01:44:15.556 --> 01:44:19.156

Phil: And taking on a menial job in a slum.

01:44:21.036 --> 01:44:24.536

Phil: And that's essentially the game.

01:44:25.156 --> 01:44:28.056

Phil: It's a nice little pixel art type game.

01:44:28.916 --> 01:44:30.096

Phil: I loved it so much.

01:44:30.176 --> 01:44:33.676

Phil: I thought this was the best work simulator since Papers, Please.

01:44:33.736 --> 01:44:35.676

Phil: And possibly even slightly better than it.

01:44:35.976 --> 01:44:39.356

Phil: Initially, I thought that I went and bought it on the Switch.

01:44:39.816 --> 01:44:42.916

Phil: Even though I had started playing it on the PC.

01:44:44.756 --> 01:44:46.476

Phil: And then replayed a great amount of it.

01:44:46.756 --> 01:44:49.836

Phil: And basically played the bulk of this on the Switch.

01:44:52.316 --> 01:44:55.436

Tom: And just one other thing on the character creation.

01:44:56.776 --> 01:45:00.396

Tom: The game has an extremely good sense of humour throughout.

01:45:01.016 --> 01:45:11.056

Tom: And one of the things you can choose for your character when you're creating your character, which is all very rudimentary, that one of the great aspects of it is you can choose the voice.

01:45:11.816 --> 01:45:17.116

Tom: And the speech in the game consists of wah-wah-wah, wah-wah-wah, sort of gibberish.

01:45:17.136 --> 01:45:19.396

Phil: Simlish is what most gamers refer to it as.

01:45:19.736 --> 01:45:20.796

Tom: Yes, yes.

01:45:21.436 --> 01:45:32.676

Tom: And just selecting the voice, which ranges from an extremely deep voice to a very high pitched voice, really adds to the humour if you select a ridiculous voice.

01:45:32.856 --> 01:45:42.376

Tom: Probably one that doesn't necessarily fit your character, although I essentially made my character into Neil from The Young Ones.

01:45:42.816 --> 01:45:43.396

Phil: Brilliant.

01:45:44.796 --> 01:45:45.376

Tom: Exactly.

01:45:45.396 --> 01:45:48.576

Tom: Anyway, so...

01:45:51.196 --> 01:45:53.936

Phil: Look, the bits and pieces of this game is absolutely brilliant.

01:45:53.956 --> 01:45:55.916

Phil: You're right, the humour is spot on.

01:45:55.936 --> 01:45:57.496

Phil: The sound effects are amazing.

01:45:57.976 --> 01:46:09.696

Phil: They capture so much of what we think Britain is like that I hope this was made by British people, and that my perception of what Britain is like matches up to this game.

01:46:10.856 --> 01:46:16.356

Phil: You know, obviously like any sort of politically themed game, it's a bit on the nose.

01:46:17.136 --> 01:46:18.596

Phil: You know, there's a lot of...

01:46:19.516 --> 01:46:20.276

Phil: Brexit or...

01:46:20.716 --> 01:46:24.356

Phil: If you're a Brexit or a Remainer, you know, one way or the other, it doesn't matter.

01:46:24.376 --> 01:46:26.576

Phil: The game carries it with very good humour.

01:46:27.816 --> 01:46:34.096

Phil: Sometimes it's a bit heavy handed, but that's what satire is.

01:46:34.356 --> 01:46:36.016

Phil: So basically, you play as a bouncer.

01:46:36.736 --> 01:47:06.856

Tom: And I would just add, actually, to me, the most interesting thing about the game was that it was very un-heavy handed compared to most things on this sort of subject in any other medium, full stop, where it is about essentially ultra-nationalism, where you're playing as a bouncer who is refusing entry to people into bars on things based on where they are from and whether their papers are in order.

01:47:06.876 --> 01:47:07.576

Phil: What they're wearing.

01:47:07.596 --> 01:47:08.516

Tom: And that sort of thing.

01:47:08.756 --> 01:47:09.116

Tom: What's that?

01:47:09.136 --> 01:47:09.896

Phil: What they're wearing.

01:47:10.516 --> 01:47:11.596

Tom: Yep, what's they're wearing.

01:47:11.616 --> 01:47:28.976

Tom: All this sort of stuff, which is actually the opposite of on the nose and heavy handed, because the depiction of most things like that would be, for example, papers please, where you're working at a border and making decisions based on those things.

01:47:28.976 --> 01:47:41.036

Tom: So it's self evident that this is a major obnoxious thing you're doing that has a seriously bad effect on people's lives based on arbitrary measures.

01:47:42.036 --> 01:47:57.616

Tom: By having that occurring at a bar and in a banal, totally normal sort of context is more relevant to the majority of people's lives living under such a sort of system.

01:47:58.376 --> 01:48:13.336

Tom: And I think really makes the whole thing much more interesting and compared to, again, in any medium, is a much more thought provoking and interesting depiction of that sort of arrangement in a society.

01:48:14.276 --> 01:48:20.016

Phil: I would have to say this is the best satirical game.

01:48:20.036 --> 01:48:21.296

Phil: There's probably a better way to say that.

01:48:21.316 --> 01:48:25.496

Phil: But this is the best game based on satire that I've ever seen in my life.

01:48:25.656 --> 01:48:30.436

Phil: And probably the worst is Grand Theft Auto 3 and that series.

01:48:31.136 --> 01:48:34.376

Tom: I think every Grand Theft Auto is horrendous satire.

01:48:34.616 --> 01:48:37.436

Phil: This is a very eloquent game.

01:48:38.416 --> 01:48:40.596

Phil: Very subtle in many, many ways.

01:48:40.896 --> 01:49:17.716

Phil: And the passion that it has for capturing certain environments down to the music, the fashion, the accents of the various people that come to the bars, whether you're at an upper class bar or not, you know, the TOFs that come in, the type of licenses that they have, the kind of privileges that they have, the VIP list, you know, and it's not just skewering, not just the British, but Russians and other cultures and peoples as well, you know, people from Jamaica and such.

01:49:17.736 --> 01:49:29.876

Phil: But it is a very finely tuned game in terms of its appreciation, and I just, I mean, I'm in awe of that component of it, but then when you get to the play mechanic as well.

01:49:30.616 --> 01:49:45.616

Tom: And I would also add there as well, your interactions as a foreign barman, sorry, bouncer with the bosses, depending on what the bosses are like, is also equally fascinating social commentary as well.

01:49:45.636 --> 01:49:47.256

Phil: Yeah, it's just great.

01:49:47.356 --> 01:49:48.136

Phil: It is great.

01:49:49.636 --> 01:49:52.236

Phil: The mechanics of the gameplay are also equally great.

01:49:52.236 --> 01:49:56.756

Phil: I mean, there's a lot of fun to be had with what you're doing, and I really can't fault it.

01:49:58.036 --> 01:50:03.836

Phil: There's a good rhythm to it, and it does get really, really complicated.

01:50:03.856 --> 01:50:27.716

Phil: I mean, like, by the end of it, you've got to keep track of, like, seven or eight different details, whether it be, you know, holograms on licenses or what flags the countries are that you're supposed to be banning from the bar, or what logos they have, or then you have to start body scanning people for weaponry and other contraband, but you also have to get a certain number of people in every night.

01:50:27.736 --> 01:50:31.996

Phil: That's the economic, you know, thing that you're facing.

01:50:32.236 --> 01:50:37.456

Phil: You've got to let a certain number of people in, but you've certain type of people you've got to keep out as well.

01:50:38.136 --> 01:50:43.196

Phil: And if you're not playing the game right, and you're not making enough money, you can die in this game.

01:50:43.296 --> 01:50:45.356

Phil: I mean, you literally can die in the game.

01:50:46.716 --> 01:50:59.056

Phil: Because if you don't buy the stuff, if you're working too hard, and you neglect to eat, or get proper heating for your apartment, or a refrigerator, or the proper bed, you can actually physically die in the game.

01:51:00.416 --> 01:51:03.436

Phil: Which is how I, you know, died early on in the game.

01:51:03.456 --> 01:51:04.336

Phil: I was taken aback.

01:51:04.356 --> 01:51:04.996

Phil: I was like, what?

01:51:06.216 --> 01:51:12.476

Phil: Because I was just working endlessly, like, day after day after day, to earn enough money so I could pay my bills.

01:51:12.576 --> 01:51:14.216

Phil: Because that's the other pressure that's on you.

01:51:14.596 --> 01:51:19.516

Phil: If you don't pay your bills, you don't seem to be a fit citizen, and can be deported.

01:51:20.296 --> 01:51:22.556

Phil: There's just so many threads to this game.

01:51:23.316 --> 01:51:26.236

Phil: And the name of the game we're talking about, again, is Not Tonight.

01:51:28.556 --> 01:51:40.556

Tom: And we should also add then, later on, in addition to that, where you're interacting with resistance members, you then also have to be deliberately breaking certain rules as well.

01:51:41.076 --> 01:51:47.136

Tom: So it becomes a massive amount of things to be juggling all at once by the end of the game.

01:51:47.156 --> 01:51:55.056

Phil: Oh yeah, you're juggling your physical health, you're helping out the resistance, because if you don't, you're going to get, you know, outed.

01:51:55.896 --> 01:52:01.596

Phil: Ultimately, you're getting promoted from a bouncer up into a border patrol person.

01:52:03.116 --> 01:52:06.856

Tom: And you're also potentially selling drugs to make money as well.

01:52:07.116 --> 01:52:08.036

Phil: And the stakes get...

01:52:08.356 --> 01:52:09.376

Tom: And taking bribes.

01:52:09.396 --> 01:52:11.336

Phil: The stakes keep getting higher and higher.

01:52:11.356 --> 01:52:12.996

Phil: And then of course there are regulars.

01:52:13.016 --> 01:52:18.496

Phil: There are people that you bump into who are underage trying to get into the bar time and time again.

01:52:18.516 --> 01:52:20.196

Phil: Do you let them through?

01:52:20.216 --> 01:52:30.456

Phil: You know, you're allowed a certain amount of errors every night, and then it comes down to, well, do I spend one of my errors by letting this character through because I want to see how the story progresses?

01:52:31.576 --> 01:52:33.736

Phil: It's just a wonderfully nuanced...

01:52:33.936 --> 01:52:48.776

Tom: And in addition to that, you get a multiplier on what you're paid for meeting your targets, both on VIP lists and just the number, amount of people you let in, and things like that, as well as in not making errors.

01:52:48.936 --> 01:53:01.216

Tom: And by the end of the game, to be having enough money to do particularly well, you will have to be repeatedly hitting those targets to be getting the money multiplier.

01:53:01.516 --> 01:53:13.236

Tom: Because you also need to not just be buying stuff for your flat, et cetera, to keep healthy, you also need to be decorating it and buying certain clothing for the sake of your reputation as well.

01:53:13.476 --> 01:53:23.416

Phil: I've got to say, also, I would play predominantly on the Switch, and on the Switch, there's actually some control shortcuts that make the game more efficient.

01:53:24.036 --> 01:53:29.716

Phil: Whereas in the game on the PC, you had to drag stuff around with the mouse, so I'm sure there's some shortcuts for that as well.

01:53:30.576 --> 01:53:40.836

Phil: On the Switch, they made it really easy using the trigger buttons and other things to streamline how you could review documents and scan objects and all the rest of it.

01:53:40.856 --> 01:53:56.696

Phil: And I would recommend it for the Switch, but for the one issue that I had with the game, and that is that ultimately this game is so perfect, nuanced, detailed, sensitive, technically great.

01:53:56.916 --> 01:53:58.536

Phil: The music in this game is great.

01:53:58.556 --> 01:54:00.196

Phil: The voice work in this game is great.

01:54:01.636 --> 01:54:06.016

Phil: But unfortunately for me, I found that the game was way too long.

01:54:06.576 --> 01:54:10.036

Phil: I was constantly looking for the end of this game.

01:54:11.236 --> 01:54:12.396

Phil: The playing is perfect.

01:54:12.416 --> 01:54:15.556

Phil: Everything about it is perfect, but the pacing and the length is not.

01:54:16.036 --> 01:54:17.936

Phil: And at least it was for me.

01:54:18.996 --> 01:54:31.456

Phil: And ultimately for me on the Switch, I came to a game ending issue and had a corrupted save and couldn't get to the end of the game.

01:54:32.916 --> 01:54:38.776

Phil: So they basically autosaved a corrupt save for me and then I couldn't get past that point.

01:54:40.376 --> 01:54:46.196

Phil: So I did have that one technical issue by playing it on the Switch, but I would say that that's probably an exception.

01:54:47.956 --> 01:54:51.596

Phil: I wouldn't discourage people from trying it on the Switch just because of that.

01:54:51.816 --> 01:54:54.716

Phil: There must have been something unique about that.

01:54:55.696 --> 01:54:57.976

Phil: But how did you find the length of this game?

01:55:00.236 --> 01:55:14.896

Tom: Just on the save issue thing there, it is also a little bit awkward how these saves work, if I remember correctly, because if you want to rewind to a certain point, you then also have to create a new save slot, if I remember correctly.

01:55:14.896 --> 01:55:17.936

Phil: And you do have to start the whole day over.

01:55:17.956 --> 01:55:22.916

Phil: You can't just save periodically and then pick up.

01:55:24.036 --> 01:55:34.696

Phil: Of course, on the Switch, you can just suspend play and come back to it later, but that's never a good thing to rely on, especially if Nintendo deems that your Switch is due for an update.

01:55:35.716 --> 01:55:43.276

Phil: So yeah, the save is one of the downfalls of the game, which is unfortunate because in every other way, it's pretty good.

01:55:44.476 --> 01:55:46.776

Phil: But again, what did you think about the pacing and length?

01:55:47.796 --> 01:56:31.836

Tom: In terms of the pacing and length, to me, the middle, there was a bit of a lag in it before they started introducing much more complicated mechanics and you having to take track of several mutually contradicting objectives at each level, that section of the game lagged a bit to me, but by the time I was into the last couple of chapters or last few chapters, it didn't feel too long to me just because the gameplay was so enjoyable in a tactile sense, but there was so much going on that achieving things was supremely satisfying, but I did not really mind that it went on for a long time at all.

01:56:32.416 --> 01:56:42.656

Tom: So I think there was a lull in the middle of it for me, but towards the end, I was probably enjoying it more than at any other point in the game in terms of gameplay.

01:56:42.676 --> 01:56:43.236

Phil: Oh, definitely.

01:56:43.256 --> 01:56:45.196

Phil: I mean, the gameplay does improve as it goes.

01:56:45.216 --> 01:56:57.456

Phil: I just think there was probably five pubs that you worked your way through before they revealed the next evolution in what you were doing, and that probably could have been like three pubs.

01:56:57.476 --> 01:56:59.336

Phil: I think two would have been not enough.

01:57:00.296 --> 01:57:09.196

Tom: Or rather than cutting down on the number of pubs, there are quite a few occasions where there are days on which nothing relevant happens to the narrative.

01:57:09.256 --> 01:57:10.236

Phil: That's right, yeah.

01:57:10.536 --> 01:57:14.316

Tom: So it could have been perhaps cut down in that sense a little bit.

01:57:14.336 --> 01:57:17.396

Phil: Yep, and there's plenty of customization in this game.

01:57:17.736 --> 01:57:20.556

Phil: You can customize your apartment, your character, the clothes.

01:57:20.876 --> 01:57:27.176

Phil: There's all sorts of upgrades that you can do to keep you entertained along the way.

01:57:27.196 --> 01:57:30.616

Phil: But yeah, that's pretty much all I've got to say about this game.

01:57:32.096 --> 01:57:33.976

Phil: But certainly one you would recommend.

01:57:35.296 --> 01:57:35.916

Tom: Absolutely.

01:57:36.636 --> 01:57:51.156

Tom: As I said, it is one of the most interesting handlings of that sort of topic and one of the most thought provoking in a way that you don't get in other mediums, but rings absolutely true.

01:57:51.876 --> 01:58:10.836

Tom: Just get to take a easy example of this is, if you take, for example, something like segregation, whether it's apartheid or in America, there is, of course, terrorism against the populace in which people are being killed and tortured and that sort of thing.

01:58:11.056 --> 01:58:21.836

Tom: But for the vast majority of people experiencing life like that, it is in just simple things like trying to get into a bar and that sort of thing.

01:58:22.356 --> 01:58:32.596

Tom: So I think handling the topic in that way was absolutely fascinating and extraordinarily rare to find in any medium.

01:58:33.016 --> 01:58:34.496

Phil: So the name of the game is Not Tonight.

01:58:34.516 --> 01:58:38.256

Phil: I don't know what platforms it's available on, but I do know for sure it's on PC and Switch.

01:58:38.976 --> 01:58:41.596

Phil: And I'd certainly recommend you give it a try as well.

01:58:45.356 --> 01:59:00.576

Phil: Okay, so with that, we're going to close it out here, but I've got to say before we go, and we've saved plenty for the next episode, there's been quite a bit of a few shows, a few bit of content that you put up there since our last episode.

01:59:00.596 --> 01:59:05.096

Phil: You've got your review of the book Ready Player One, which was-

01:59:05.456 --> 01:59:07.376

Tom: Did we have that before the last episode?

01:59:07.456 --> 01:59:12.736

Phil: You're right, but you did talk about Cloudpunk, City of Ghosts, you did a review of that.

01:59:13.976 --> 01:59:22.536

Tom: I did indeed, and it's also somewhat of a review of Cyberpunk simultaneously as well, and Cyberpunk in general.

01:59:23.976 --> 01:59:28.656

Phil: Certainly worth a read, so that was the Cloudpunk City of Ghosts review at gameunder.net.

01:59:28.916 --> 01:59:33.156

Phil: You can just basically go to the front page and scroll down there or go straight to the review section.

01:59:34.356 --> 01:59:36.936

Phil: Then you also did a review of...

01:59:39.236 --> 01:59:40.436

Phil: My mouse is freaking out.

01:59:43.056 --> 01:59:54.956

Phil: You also did a review of Omno demo, Omno of the demo impressions, and it looks a lot like to me like a Cubivore meets No Man's Sky, meets...

01:59:55.616 --> 01:59:59.076

Phil: I don't know what, meets Viva Piñata.

02:00:00.716 --> 02:00:08.736

Tom: Graphically, that is definitely what it is like, but in terms of gameplay, it is actually based on the very brief demo anyway.

02:00:10.536 --> 02:00:18.616

Tom: Something in the line of probably just a 3D platformer, but with some action adventure twists to it.

02:00:18.796 --> 02:00:22.196

Phil: So there's no mating element like Viva Piñata or Cubivore?

02:00:22.356 --> 02:00:24.176

Tom: No, not so far, unfortunately.

02:00:24.196 --> 02:00:26.676

Phil: Okay, maybe that's to come.

02:00:27.056 --> 02:00:28.756

Phil: And then finally, you reviewed...

02:00:28.816 --> 02:00:29.996

Phil: Is that pronounced Inglot?

02:00:31.576 --> 02:00:33.096

Tom: I have no idea how it's pronounced.

02:00:33.116 --> 02:00:34.496

Phil: I would say it's Inglot.

02:00:35.336 --> 02:00:37.616

Tom: Yeah, that's how I pronounce it as well.

02:00:38.596 --> 02:00:39.616

Phil: Very interesting.

02:00:39.996 --> 02:00:41.836

Tom: I do not know how it is pronounced.

02:00:41.856 --> 02:00:49.836

Tom: The game is, however, Danish, but I think the person who made it is Swedish, but now working in Denmark.

02:00:50.576 --> 02:00:52.296

Phil: Is it a shooter?

02:00:52.556 --> 02:00:55.616

Phil: Like an old school shooter style thing?

02:00:56.656 --> 02:01:02.156

Tom: It is also a platformer, but in this case a 2D platformer.

02:01:02.296 --> 02:01:26.696

Tom: It works in a very unique way, where instead of moving through a level in which you jump over gaps between platforms, you are jumping from what are essentially bubbles to other bubbles using momentum and a dash mechanic, as well as bouncing off various walls or dashing off some of them.

02:01:26.716 --> 02:01:35.136

Tom: It is a completely unique experience that is surprisingly deep in terms of gameplay.

02:01:35.156 --> 02:01:48.956

Tom: There are some bonus levels in there that are really difficult and show off some of the interesting and crazy things you can do when you figure out how the mechanics work.

02:01:48.976 --> 02:01:54.216

Tom: Aesthetically, it is visually and in terms of sound, incredible.

02:01:55.636 --> 02:02:03.796

Tom: You can tell that just by looking at the screenshots to some degree, but as you're moving through the level, little things change throughout.

02:02:04.196 --> 02:02:08.916

Tom: To get the full impression of how great it looks, it is well worth playing.

02:02:08.936 --> 02:02:12.796

Tom: The sound is described as being algorithmic music.

02:02:13.736 --> 02:02:32.436

Tom: It does alter as you're going along and interacting with things in the game, but I would suggest that that is probably a bit of marketing hype there because it doesn't necessarily alter too much compared to games like Diad or even stuff like Euphoria.

02:02:32.616 --> 02:02:34.656

Phil: So is it like progressive prog rock?

02:02:36.056 --> 02:02:44.336

Tom: No, it is electronica, but when you get to a bubble or you move quickly and things like that, things in the music will change.

02:02:44.556 --> 02:02:48.596

Phil: I've been listening to prog rock lately and I think that would match the aesthetic of that game.

02:02:48.696 --> 02:02:50.696

Phil: It looks absolutely captivating.

02:02:50.716 --> 02:02:55.656

Phil: Again, the name of the game is Inglot, spelled Y-N-G-L-E-T.

02:02:55.676 --> 02:02:57.116

Phil: It's available on PC.

02:02:57.876 --> 02:03:09.456

Tom: So given that it is Danish and it is the world map weirdly and parts of the levels have references to places in Denmark, maybe it would actually be Yinglet.

02:03:09.776 --> 02:03:10.696

Phil: Yinglet, okay.

02:03:11.236 --> 02:03:13.116

Phil: Y-N-G-L-E-T.

02:03:13.176 --> 02:03:16.316

Phil: I mean, on the basis of the artwork itself, it's certainly worth a look.

02:03:17.296 --> 02:03:21.096

Phil: With that, we'll close out episode 136 of The Game Under Podcast.

02:03:21.116 --> 02:03:21.636

Phil: I have been...

02:03:21.656 --> 02:03:23.676

Phil: I realise I haven't introduced myself.

02:03:24.296 --> 02:03:30.396

Phil: This mysterious voice you've been hearing is that of Phil Fogg, and I've been joined by my co-host, Mr.

02:03:30.416 --> 02:03:31.176

Phil: Tom Towers.

02:03:31.896 --> 02:03:37.096

Tom: World renowned food critic, and I don't think I gave my final impressions of the cheeseburger, did I?

02:03:37.116 --> 02:03:37.296

Phil: No.

02:03:37.496 --> 02:03:39.076

Phil: We'll have to save that for next time.

02:03:39.576 --> 02:03:40.236

Tom: No, we won't.

02:03:40.256 --> 02:03:41.196

Tom: We will have to quickly...

02:03:41.336 --> 02:03:43.756

Tom: We can't do this to our loyal listeners.

02:03:43.856 --> 02:03:44.876

Phil: Oh, yes, we can.

02:03:45.716 --> 02:03:46.456

Tom: No, we can't.

02:03:47.016 --> 02:03:56.456

Tom: It was indeed a surprisingly satisfying meal, full of energy as you would expect from something so fatty and salty.

02:03:57.516 --> 02:04:02.556

Tom: And I was originally going to make potentially a pizza after this, but I don't think I will be now.

Phil: So your soul and your stomach is satisfied.

Phil: Correct.

Phil: With this healthy meal from McDonald's.

Phil: I know if I were in your shoes, I'm loving it.

Tom: I am indeed.

Phil: Do do do do do. (Hums the McDonalds Theme)

Game Under Podcast 135

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Trademark Banter

0:01:34 Australian Politicians

0:02:56 Tom's Taste Test

Introduction

0:12.10 Welcome to the Show

First Impressions - Tom Towers

0:13:00 Sky: Season of Assembly - Beta

Gaming Trivia Quiz

0:25:20 Plastics

0:29:24 Tom Turns the Trivia Tables

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

0:32:53 I Dream of You and Ice Cream - PC

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

1:02:00 Super Hot (PC)

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

1:10:30 Tom Reviews Phil's Review of Ken Williams' (Sierra Online)

Rare Full Version of Game Under Podcast Theme

1:23:00 In Tribute to Al Lowe

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:10.420 --> 00:00:14.720

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 135 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:19.340

Phil: I am your co-host, Tom Towers, or Phil Fogg, you be the judge.

00:00:19.740 --> 00:00:22.080

Phil: I think I'm Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by...

00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:24.340

Tom: I hope you're Phil Fogg.

00:00:25.340 --> 00:00:27.520

Tom: I really hope you're Phil Fogg, for my sake.

00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:29.600

Phil: Are you wearing a mask right now?

00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:30.720

Tom: No, I'm not.

00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:36.260

Phil: You know, my state mandated the use of masks across the whole state three days ago.

00:00:36.540 --> 00:00:40.920

Phil: We have to keep wearing masks until they tell us to stop wearing them.

00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:42.240

Tom: We've done that here before.

00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.640

Phil: Was it statewide, though, or just to your municipality?

00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:47.300

Tom: No, statewide, I'm pretty sure.

00:00:47.800 --> 00:00:49.480

Phil: It's not great, I can tell you that much.

00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:51.620

Phil: It's not fun wearing this stupid mask.

00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:53.140

Tom: You get used to it.

00:00:53.400 --> 00:00:56.780

Phil: So you may have some audio infidelity with this episode.

00:00:57.580 --> 00:01:02.700

Tom: Well, depending on where you're recording, I do believe you may not need to be presently wearing it.

00:01:03.160 --> 00:01:05.120

Phil: I'm recording this in Studio B.

00:01:05.980 --> 00:01:09.380

Phil: There's no one else here present, so I guess I could take it off.

00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:11.880

Tom: I think you can, in fact, take it off.

00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:15.120

Phil: Alright, well, if you want to get something to eat, I'm going to just take off my mask.

00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:18.360

Tom: You sound significantly different.

00:01:18.740 --> 00:01:21.980

Phil: Yes, I can assure you, I'm very different.

00:01:23.320 --> 00:01:24.220

Tom: Please put it back on.

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:29.720

Phil: Alright, so enough corona hijinks.

00:01:30.860 --> 00:01:36.640

Phil: You're listening to Australia's longest running video game podcast because you just love to hear us talk about the hottest new games.

00:01:36.860 --> 00:01:46.340

Tom: On the topic of politics, by the way, I think, I just have to say, there's currently a lot of controversy going on in the Australian Parliament at the moment.

00:01:47.040 --> 00:02:11.460

Tom: And I am very disappointed in the Australian population because I have not come across a single joke, sex-related joke, about how masturbating at one's work or engaging in sexual intercourse in a confessional or any of that sort of thing might actually make a politician more sympathetic than they otherwise would be.

00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:14.080

Phil: Well, I must have missed a few stories.

00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:20.780

Phil: The only one I saw was the guy who was texting and engaging with a prostitute while he was sitting in parliament.

00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:22.700

Tom: That's just the latest one.

00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:33.680

Tom: There's been a lot more relatable content that has just been missed by the current Australian population, unfortunately.

00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:36.720

Phil: Yeah, well, there's not a lot of humour going around much anymore.

00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:37.780

Phil: I don't know if you've noticed that.

00:02:38.140 --> 00:02:40.740

Phil: Yeah, well, they're more relatable now, I guess.

00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:53.200

Tom: Now that they're relatable, we can't make fun of them because I think that it has never been a defining characteristic of Australian humour, which is self-deprecating or banter among friends.

00:02:53.620 --> 00:02:55.320

Tom: So that would make even less sense.

00:02:56.160 --> 00:03:06.940

Tom: But we will now be returning to the important, most important gaming topic that I think has graced gaming culture over the past two decades.

00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:13.840

Tom: And we previously had me trying Mountain Dew Energized version.

00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:20.140

Tom: And I've been attempting to buy the non-energized version of Mountain Dew.

00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.340

Tom: But I have failed to find it anywhere.

00:03:23.820 --> 00:03:28.000

Tom: So I'm not sure if it has actually been officially released in Australia.

00:03:28.440 --> 00:03:31.640

Phil: I think they've just changed the name to Mountain Dew Energized.

00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:39.900

Phil: Because everywhere I look now, after you brought that up in the last show, everywhere I see it, it has that little Energized catch tag on the bottom.

00:03:40.100 --> 00:03:42.580

Phil: So I think you are actually drinking the right thing.

00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:43.900

Phil: It's not an energy drink.

00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:46.840

Phil: You're drinking the caffeinated soda known as Mountain Dew.

00:03:47.160 --> 00:03:49.980

Tom: Okay, so it's merely a rebranding exercise.

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:50.480

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:51.980

Phil: Or augmentation, yes.

00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:52.620

Tom: Yes.

00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:07.980

Tom: But I did manage to find what I think, I'm pretty sure at some point, was also floating around gaming communities in America, not so much in Australia, a packet of Doritos Cool Ranch.

00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:08.960

Phil: Oh, wow.

00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:10.860

Phil: So those are in Australia now?

00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:12.180

Tom: Apparently.

00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:13.080

Phil: That's great.

00:04:13.320 --> 00:04:15.020

Phil: So you've had some.

00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:17.680

Tom: Well, I'm about to on air.

00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.120

Phil: They've got the little green and red dots on them, right?

00:04:20.420 --> 00:04:20.920

Tom: Correct.

00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:22.000

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:04:22.020 --> 00:04:26.280

Phil: And then you've got the base of ranch across the whole chip.

00:04:26.340 --> 00:04:29.840

Phil: Well, I'm glad we've been doing this show for like nine years now.

00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:30.780

Phil: We're in our ninth season.

00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:34.680

Phil: We're finally getting to eating Doritos and Mountain Dew on the air.

00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:41.960

Phil: The area that Giant Bomb originated probably less than nine years ago.

00:04:42.020 --> 00:04:42.960

Phil: But anyway, I'm good.

00:04:42.980 --> 00:04:44.000

Phil: I'm glad we're finally here.

00:04:44.220 --> 00:05:11.920

Tom: Well, it's about time we copied another podcast, but I would like to think that unlike Giant Bomb, where that's a side effect of the fact that they are continually consuming Mountain Dew and Doritos of a variety of different flavors, we're doing it as a high brow ASMR segment, a concept neither you nor I understand, but we're willing to venture into unknown territory for us.

00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:14.360

Phil: We waited until the time was right to do it.

00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:15.440

Tom: Exactly.

00:05:15.460 --> 00:05:16.780

Phil: So you haven't eaten it yet?

00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:17.800

Tom: No.

00:05:17.900 --> 00:05:19.960

Phil: Now have you had ranch dressing?

00:05:22.580 --> 00:05:24.900

Tom: Surely I have at some point had ranch dressing.

00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:25.480

Phil: Okay.

00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:28.320

Phil: I've got to tell you, the ranch dressing we have in Australia is excreable.

00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:31.640

Phil: It's more like mayonnaise than proper Hidden Valley Ranch.

00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:34.620

Phil: So it would be interesting to know if they go...

00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:37.440

Phil: I'm sure they go with the real ranch flavor.

00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:43.200

Phil: So you're probably eating the most ranchiest thing in Australia because it's, you know, imported.

00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:43.960

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:44.440 --> 00:05:44.840

Phil: Okay.

00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:47.500

Phil: And is it called Cool American or Cool Ranch?

00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:50.120

Phil: Because I know in Europe it's called Cool American or something.

00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:51.560

Tom: It's called Cool Ranch.

00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:52.220

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:52.720

Phil: You're right.

00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:53.540

Phil: Cool Ranch.

00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:14.260

Tom: And something you won't hear on the Giant Bomb Show, but I thought it might be worth pointing out that a single can of Mountain Dew Energized contains 739 kilojoules, which is 8% of one's total daily intake of kilojoules, apparently.

00:06:15.700 --> 00:06:27.500

Tom: Compared to an entire packet of, wait, no, sorry, compared to 100 grams of Cool Ranch Doritos, which are 2130 kilojoules.

00:06:28.580 --> 00:06:29.340

Phil: Sounds good to me.

00:06:29.780 --> 00:06:45.220

Tom: So it seems like if you drank a can of Mountain Dew Energized and ate a packet of about 300 or 400 grams, so two packets of Doritos Cool Ranch, you would have eaten enough for a day, apparently.

00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:46.180

Phil: That's very efficient.

00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:48.280

Phil: I don't know what these homeless people are complaining about.

00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:50.360

Phil: Just eat two bags of ranch and you're set.

00:06:51.580 --> 00:06:52.420

Tom: Come on.

00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:56.300

Tom: That's what they should be giving out at homeless shelters, none of this fucking soup bullshit.

00:06:56.340 --> 00:06:57.580

Phil: This is the future, man.

00:06:57.680 --> 00:06:59.900

Phil: The future is Cool Ranch, hobo.

00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.360

Phil: We've got to get on to a game sooner or later, but I've got another topic about food related.

00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:05.640

Tom: We'll get to that in a moment.

00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:10.400

Tom: First on air, the magic moment of opening the can.

00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:11.000

Tom: All right.

00:07:11.020 --> 00:07:14.460

Phil: That's not bad.

00:07:17.660 --> 00:07:20.560

Phil: Tom Towers is now pouring Mountain Dew into a glass.

00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:26.660

Tom: This isn't Giant Bomb where they fucking scoff it directly from the can like some sort of animal.

00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:27.800

Phil: I think the word is quaff.

00:07:28.700 --> 00:07:30.120

Phil: Did you say quaff or scoff?

00:07:30.520 --> 00:07:31.420

Tom: I said scoff.

00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:35.520

Tom: I'm speaking to our low brow gamer, to general audience.

00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:37.840

Phil: The word is quaff, listeners at home.

00:07:38.300 --> 00:07:39.980

Phil: Q-U-A-F-F.

00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.560

Tom: I don't think that quaffing is anything that would occur on Giant Bomb though.

00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:46.720

Phil: Yeah, quaffing is A-F-F.

00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:49.320

Phil: Oh, now wait.

00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:50.720

Phil: He's going for the chips.

00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:53.720

Phil: Tom Towers is going for the Cool Ranch.

00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:55.860

Phil: I thought he was going to do these separately.

00:07:56.200 --> 00:07:58.060

Phil: Drink the Mountain Dew then the chips.

00:07:58.080 --> 00:07:59.980

Tom: Well, which should I try first?

00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.500

Phil: Go with the ranch and make sure you put it tongue, like get the full covering of your tongue.

00:08:04.520 --> 00:08:07.640

Tom: So I should put my tongue in the packet, Giant Bomb style.

00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.520

Phil: No, no, just get the chip.

00:08:10.880 --> 00:08:13.260

Tom: Just stick my head directly into the packet?

00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:21.320

Phil: No, put the triangle so that the point is toward the front of your tongue and the back two corners are at the back of your mouth and then put it on there.

00:08:21.340 --> 00:08:23.840

Phil: Otherwise, you got to put the tab on properly.

00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:25.140

Phil: And then you'll feel it.

00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:29.200

Phil: And then once the chip starts to get moist, crunch down and enjoy.

00:08:29.700 --> 00:08:36.280

Tom: First, I will comment that it smells pretty much like corn.

00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:43.700

Tom: Maybe a slight papadum sort of smell to it as well.

00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:50.600

Tom: Mainly, I would say from the odor of burnt oil or reused old oil.

00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:57.160

Tom: I'm now placing a triangle of corn directly on my tongue.

00:08:57.300 --> 00:08:57.820

Phil: Here we go.

00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.620

Phil: This magic moment brought to you by Doritos Cool Ranch.

00:09:03.020 --> 00:09:04.400

Phil: He's going for the second one.

00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:06.220

Phil: He's gone for the second one.

00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.440

Phil: You can't have just one.

00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:08.180

Phil: Proven here.

00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.220

Phil: Okay, that's enough.

00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:11.140

Phil: Tell us what you think.

00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:14.520

Tom: Following that up with a sip of Mountain Dew first.

00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.200

Phil: Take it full and make sure it gets to the back of the mouth.

00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:27.420

Tom: Well, I would have to say that Doritos Cool Ranch essentially tastes like your standard Dorito.

00:09:27.560 --> 00:09:28.760

Tom: It's not as strong.

00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:34.400

Tom: The spices are not as overpowering as your standard Dorito.

00:09:34.420 --> 00:09:40.680

Tom: It's a subtle of flavor, but that is still very much the main taste that it has.

00:09:41.180 --> 00:10:01.140

Tom: What I will say for it, though, is following, once you have swallowed the chip and maybe had a sip of Mountain Dew, you do get a creamy, mayonnaise-y, slightly sweet, very tangy aftertaste that does set it apart from the standard Dorito.

00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.840

Phil: It's like putting a yogurt on top of a samosa or something like that.

00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:06.640

Tom: Exactly.

00:10:06.660 --> 00:10:30.540

Tom: And I would say that probably if you were to do what I advised for your daily intake of kilojoules, which was eat two packets of Doritos and drink a single can of Mountain Dew, I think it would be a more pleasant experience to do that with a packet of Doritos Cool Ranch because it is a subtler flavor with a more pleasant aftertaste.

00:10:30.900 --> 00:10:31.740

Phil: Okay, well good.

00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:32.960

Phil: You're on to a winner.

00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.000

Phil: I will have to look for this.

00:10:34.260 --> 00:10:37.320

Phil: Were you able to find this at a major grocery store?

00:10:37.740 --> 00:10:38.900

Tom: Yes, I was indeed.

00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:42.800

Phil: Okay, so it should be reaching my regions in about 10 years then.

00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:43.740

Tom: Correct.

00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:48.000

Tom: And I would say that Mountain Dew is indeed a good complement to it.

00:10:48.020 --> 00:10:55.700

Tom: The tanginess of Mountain Dew fits in very nicely with the aftertaste of the Doritos.

00:10:55.900 --> 00:11:08.040

Tom: And the fact that it is not overpoweringly sweet does not interfere with the basic, extremely strong flavor of the standard Dorito taste that is still there.

00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:12.140

Phil: I wonder how it would go for dry champagne after the Dorito.

00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:13.840

Tom: I think it would work well.

00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:19.340

Tom: It would also, I think, work reasonably well with a pink champagne as well.

00:11:20.260 --> 00:11:22.340

Phil: That's enough about snack foods.

00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:25.360

Phil: We've got far more important things to do to talk about today.

00:11:25.380 --> 00:11:27.520

Phil: We're going to be talking about Hotshot Racing, Super Hot.

00:11:27.640 --> 00:11:30.700

Phil: I Dream of You and Ice Cream, which is a game, not a sentiment.

00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:33.020

Phil: You've got a trivia question for me.

00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:35.080

Phil: We're going to talk about Sky, Season of Assembly.

00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.960

Phil: I've got a few political things to say.

00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:43.800

Phil: And we're going to talk about Not Tonight, a game that we've both been thoroughly enjoying or thoroughly playing.

00:11:43.800 --> 00:11:45.040

Phil: I've been thoroughly enjoying.

00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:50.700

Phil: And I did a micro review of a Ken Williams book, which you have a critique of, I understand.

00:11:51.260 --> 00:11:53.960

Tom: I totally forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

00:11:54.020 --> 00:12:00.360

Phil: Yeah, and then also you've got a massive beef with how I censored you in the last episode.

00:12:00.380 --> 00:12:05.320

Tom: Well, I don't listen to the show, so I have no idea what you did or did not censor.

00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:09.780

Tom: For instance, I've got a running joke about the fact that...

00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:13.300

Tom: is a pedophile.

00:12:13.540 --> 00:12:13.860

Phil: Yes.

00:12:14.420 --> 00:12:20.020

Tom: I do believe you may be removing it from every episode.

00:12:20.180 --> 00:12:23.020

Phil: I've been leaving it in, but I do edit out the person's name.

00:12:23.800 --> 00:12:27.680

Phil: And I just save myself 40 seconds by not saying his or her name.

00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.440

Phil: Who may or may not have...

00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:34.220

Phil: a nano-ball.

00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:35.120

Tom: He certainly didn't...

00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:36.800

Phil: No.

00:12:36.820 --> 00:12:37.720

Phil: Do you buy into the...

00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:39.180

Phil: Okay, this is way off topic.

00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:40.880

Phil: Anyway, stick in there.

00:12:40.900 --> 00:12:51.240

Phil: We've got major beef coming up towards the end of the show, where Tom's going to confront me about some censorship of his comments.

00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.700

Phil: And now he might actually listen to the last episode.

00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:55.840

Phil: So, where do you want to jump into from here?

00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:59.300

Phil: We should definitely, probably talk about a video game at this point.

00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:10.120

Tom: Well, let's talk about Sky Season of Assembly, because that's probably the only recent game that anyone may have heard of.

00:13:10.180 --> 00:13:12.720

Tom: They probably haven't heard of that either, for that matter.

00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:13.660

Phil: I haven't heard of this.

00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:17.780

Phil: Is this finally Sky Children of Ascension coming to Switch?

00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:25.380

Tom: No, this is the upcoming season that will release this month, I think in about a week or so.

00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:28.140

Phil: This is the one you reviewed a couple of episodes ago that was in beta?

00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:30.300

Tom: No, that was the previous season.

00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:36.560

Tom: We should add, I was effusive in my praise of that season.

00:13:36.960 --> 00:14:08.780

Tom: When it got to the live version of the game where everyone was playing it, it was plagued with glitches that essentially meant that for most players, to be able to complete the first half or more of installments to the narrative for the season, they had to be constantly repeating them, doing things like switching to airplane mode to be able to get them to work, and a variety of other things like that.

00:14:08.780 --> 00:14:22.100

Tom: So unfortunately, when that reached live, although it was in the beta essentially glitch free almost, in the actual game, it was a horrendous mess, unfortunately.

00:14:23.020 --> 00:14:25.040

Phil: Well, how did they screw it up?

00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:55.260

Tom: Well, to the degree that they screwed it up, I have no idea because Sky has always been relatively glitchy, particularly as its player base has grown, but the glitches have usually not been on as high a level or in as important part of the game as that, because bear in mind that the seasons, although you can play them for free, they are also paid content.

00:14:55.280 --> 00:15:03.700

Tom: So a lot of people would have paid for that so that they can get further rewards and it was a mess, unfortunately.

00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:08.620

Phil: Okay, so just a quick reset for new listeners or people that aren't familiar with the game.

00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:22.740

Phil: Sky is by that game company that did Flower and Journey and Flow, and it's available on phones only still, right?

00:15:23.380 --> 00:15:26.140

Phil: It's not available on PC or any other console.

00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:28.140

Phil: And it's an MMO.

00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.020

Phil: And how would you describe it?

00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.840

Phil: How would you describe it?

00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:35.660

Phil: In terms of the gameplay elements of it?

00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:49.440

Tom: Well, you basically fly around, reliving the memories of spirits, not unlike Journey, but unlike Journey, you have a much greater freedom of movement.

00:15:49.700 --> 00:16:03.400

Tom: And the main gameplay loop, once you have done the reliving of spirits stories, is essentially collecting wax and wings.

00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:19.760

Tom: The wings allow you to fly further, and the wax is the in-game currency which you use to purchase cosmetic items and also trade hearts with other players, which are also used for purchasing cosmetic items.

00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:28.820

Tom: And you also purchase not just cosmetic items, but items that allow you to talk to other players without befriending them and things like that.

00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.160

Phil: They've gotten way into this now.

00:16:32.180 --> 00:16:34.440

Phil: I think this is like the third or fourth year, isn't it?

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.720

Tom: Yeah, it's been...

00:16:35.780 --> 00:16:38.060

Tom: I don't know if it's the fourth year, maybe the third.

00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:39.980

Phil: Well, if you count development.

00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.700

Phil: But my point is, do you think this is going to be that game company's thing?

00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:45.920

Phil: Is this what they are now?

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.180

Phil: Is this their Fortnite?

00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:52.620

Tom: Well, it has been so successful that that may well be the case.

00:16:53.140 --> 00:16:55.800

Phil: And it's successful in what regions?

00:16:56.660 --> 00:17:01.900

Tom: All over the world, as far as I can tell from the people I've interacted with on it.

00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:16.800

Tom: And it also, due to the structure of it with the seasons, also allows them to still be doing new and creative and interesting things as the game continues.

00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:17.640

Phil: Well, good on them.

00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:19.160

Phil: I mean, obviously it's paying the bills.

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:25.900

Phil: I'm waiting for them to add sticky grenades and ATVs before I jump in.

00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:26.940

Phil: I'm actually serious.

00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.080

Phil: When this comes to Switch, I'll be in it.

00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:33.020

Phil: Yeah, so this new season of Assembly, is it in beta right now?

00:17:33.700 --> 00:17:34.340

Tom: Yes, it is.

00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:37.180

Phil: And anything, what's the notable change?

00:17:38.240 --> 00:18:00.640

Tom: Well, the new area is in the hidden forest, and the narrative I think is not at all as interesting as the previous seasons, which was to me probably the best side story in the game outside of maybe elements of the first and second season.

00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:05.120

Tom: This one is a little bit more comical.

00:18:05.120 --> 00:18:06.260

Tom: It is enjoyable.

00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:21.100

Tom: The concept is basically that you are rebuilding the tree house, or building a tree house for a group of lost scouts lost in the forest.

00:18:22.260 --> 00:18:38.280

Tom: And the one disappointing thing about it is the quests you're doing for them are kind of caught between a problem they have had with trying to find a balance that does not annoy a huge amount of people.

00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:51.800

Tom: A lot of the seasonal spirits whose memories you're reliving, some of them have been extremely difficult, at least compared to the rest of the game.

00:18:51.840 --> 00:19:06.080

Tom: So a lot of people have not liked that, but by the same token, people have also wanted more interesting tasks to do in the quests you're doing, particularly in the side quests.

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:19.120

Tom: And so what they've basically done in this season is you are going around rather than reliving memories of the characters, although that's still there.

00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:22.460

Tom: There is a small story aspect to the tasks you're doing.

00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:39.140

Tom: You are collecting items that you're using to rebuild the tree house, which is to me anyway a lot less interesting than following around the spirits and watching as their story unfolds.

00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:45.560

Tom: And those are also usually integrated in an interesting way into the environment as well.

00:19:46.340 --> 00:19:51.120

Tom: That's less so the case here, other than a few items that might be difficult to hide.

00:19:51.660 --> 00:20:05.920

Tom: The one interesting thing about it, I would say, is though that some of them, for you to be even able to start them, require multiple people to be there.

00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:17.800

Tom: Whereas other spirits, often to be able to do them due to the difficulty involved and what you're doing, you will need other players, you will be able to start them without other players.

00:20:17.820 --> 00:20:27.660

Tom: Here, you need the players required to be able to begin them, which is an interesting thing and does encourage cooperation.

00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:41.420

Tom: But the actual looking for and finding the items isn't as interesting, I would say, as the spirit memories usually are in the side seasons.

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:53.160

Tom: The cosmetic items you get in it though, some of them are among the best items, some of them are relatively forgettable.

00:20:53.360 --> 00:21:04.980

Tom: So it's a mixed bag there, but some of them are really detailed and do add something to the current looks that are available.

00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:08.120

Phil: This game was released in...

00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:10.840

Phil: it's coming up on two years in July, so I was way off.

00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.000

Tom: That's because you've been waiting to play it all this time.

00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:15.940

Phil: Yeah, it feels like four years.

00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.100

Phil: Is there any violence in this game at all?

00:21:19.860 --> 00:21:31.080

Tom: Well, there is the Krill, which is a monster that can attack you and also goes around killing flying mantises.

00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:40.580

Phil: Okay, because I was wondering, you know, Monster Hunter is the topic of the week this week, which I can't care about, but I do want to go back and play the original PlayStation 2 game.

00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:51.760

Phil: But when you were talking about having a sufficient number of people on a quest, I was kind of thinking of raids and, you know, that sort of thing that came around from World of Warcraft.

00:21:51.780 --> 00:21:55.040

Tom: Well, there's no violence that the players themselves engage in.

00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:58.460

Phil: Okay, so there's no, quote, raids, as it were, but...

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:10.200

Tom: But they are helpful in doing certain activities during the quests and in just flying around and collecting wax, slash light, full stop.

00:22:10.220 --> 00:22:15.840

Tom: They are helpful because they do recharge your energy that you use up while flying.

00:22:15.860 --> 00:22:21.080

Phil: Okay, do you have anything else about the latest episode for Sky Children of Light?

00:22:21.760 --> 00:22:47.760

Tom: Not really, just that it is looking like if we pretend that the prior season actually worked properly, not as interesting as that season, but nevertheless, it is adding some interesting cosmetics to the game, and it does provide at least something different, albeit something that is perhaps could be more interesting than it is.

00:22:48.740 --> 00:23:05.200

Tom: The one thing I would add is as well, it also adds a multitude of new accessory items that you use to do stuff in the game, many of which people are still yet to work out what the hell they do.

00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:10.340

Tom: So that, if anything, makes it more intriguing than it otherwise would be.

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.480

Phil: Yeah, look, the fact that you've been so taken with this game, I have to say, are you playing it on Android or iOS?

00:23:18.120 --> 00:23:18.700

Tom: iOS.

00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:23.180

Tom: I play it on an iPhone and an iPad.

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:34.240

Phil: Okay, and like how do you, like when I sit down to game, like I've got a certain goal in mind, you know, like I don't have like an idle type mentality when it comes to a game.

00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.560

Phil: Is this an idle game for you?

00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:38.360

Phil: Is this something you do while you're doing something else?

00:23:38.360 --> 00:23:43.060

Phil: Is this something when you do when you're, you know, tired and...

00:23:43.260 --> 00:24:00.480

Tom: Well, at this stage, most of the time, it is basically a chat room, which I will have on while I'm eating or doing something else and other people, not me, will actually be going through the levels.

00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:29.080

Tom: But when, on the occasions when I actually do fly around and carry friends around rather than being dragged around by them, it remains due to how good the mechanics are and in spite of the essentially endless loop of collecting stuff or perhaps because of it, it remains enjoyable to actually play on the occasions when I am actually playing it.

00:24:29.340 --> 00:24:46.160

Tom: And even after all this long period of time, when playing it, it remains a very relaxing and meditative experience in the vein of Journey and perhaps Flower and other That Game Company games as well.

00:24:49.460 --> 00:25:05.960

Tom: And that style of game actually translates better than most games to an endlessly repetitive gameplay structure as meditation or other such mental activities would as well.

00:25:06.580 --> 00:25:07.560

Phil: Okay, very good.

00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:10.540

Phil: You've always been about community.

00:25:10.560 --> 00:25:12.180

Phil: We talked about that in the last episode.

00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:20.520

Phil: I encourage everyone to listen to the latter part of the last episode where we talked about our early days at gamespot.com.

00:25:21.100 --> 00:25:27.020

Phil: And over at the VG Press, I've started up a gaming trivia quiz at the vgpress.com in the gaming forum.

00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:38.720

Phil: And I did this when I had forgotten my password for my main account, and the administrator for our site has basically ghosted our whole community.

00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:41.800

Phil: So I was unable to get my password reset.

00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:49.480

Phil: So I started this as an alternate identity, very close to my real identity on the site.

00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:52.800

Tom: What would you say is the difference?

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.940

Phil: Well, one is called Aspro, one is called the real Aspro.

00:25:57.620 --> 00:26:00.700

Phil: So I started this gaming trivia thing.

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:23.020

Phil: And so for the people that aren't part of the VG Press community, like, you know, the very first one, which I think was really obvious to anyone that knows anything about video games, I started with a really easy question, which was what video game system's distinct plastic coloring was chosen by its parsimonious manufacturer due to them being able to buy plastics in that color more cheaply?

00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:30.480

Phil: Now, the obvious answer is the Famicom, the Nintendo Famicom with its maroon plastics.

00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:31.540

Phil: You knew that answer, right?

00:26:31.780 --> 00:26:36.240

Tom: Well, I would have said NES if someone else had not previously said that.

00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:37.720

Phil: But the NES is grey.

00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:38.560

Phil: The NES is...

00:26:40.020 --> 00:26:44.020

Tom: As in the Famicom, because they're also technically the same thing.

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:45.500

Phil: Well, they're not.

00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:46.480

Phil: They're different.

00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:47.380

Phil: They have different plastics.

00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:53.040

Tom: If you look up Famicom on Wikipedia, I believe it is referred to as the Famicom slash NES.

00:26:53.800 --> 00:27:04.780

Phil: Now, the second question was, Gunpei Yokoi was famous for creating the Game Boy and infamous for creating the Virtual Boy, but what is the name of the non-Nintendo gaming console he created?

00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:06.900

Phil: This is like basic stuff.

00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:09.280

Phil: Everyone knows the answer is one to swan.

00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.840

Tom: Well, I think someone got it.

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:15.180

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.020

Phil: So...

00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:25.160

Phil: And somehow you've climbed your way to the top with your expertise in...

00:27:25.320 --> 00:27:26.940

Tom: Second in place, I believe.

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.900

Phil: Yeah, well, yeah, but you're ascending because of your knowledge of Michael Jackson.

00:27:36.020 --> 00:27:40.220

Tom: Maybe he's the person I'm accusing of being a pedophile in every episode.

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.820

Phil: Perhaps.

00:27:41.020 --> 00:27:43.440

Tom: Which I think you don't need to censor because he's dead.

00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:44.240

Phil: Dead, exactly.

00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:45.900

Phil: Did I teach you that on a prior show?

00:27:45.920 --> 00:28:01.340

Tom: I don't know, but if anyone wants clues as to who I'm talking about, the joke is because he is evidence that I should not be at risk of being sued for defamation if I accuse someone of being a pedophile.

00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:02.500

Tom: That's what the joke is about.

00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:05.220

Phil: Now, it is true that you cannot slander the dead.

00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:10.100

Phil: You can say anything you want about the dead people, at least in the US, this is the case.

00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:18.560

Phil: And I think I may have taught you this, but anyway, if someone's dead, and maybe this came up with our obituaries, but if someone is dead, you cannot slander them.

00:28:18.860 --> 00:28:20.380

Phil: You cannot be sued for defaming them.

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:25.480

Phil: Now, what was the other one that you got because of your advanced knowledge of...

00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:26.900

Tom: Metal Gear Solid.

00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:28.100

Phil: No, Stuff's the Zombie.

00:28:30.820 --> 00:28:33.920

Phil: That was just to see if anyone listens to the show at the VG Press.

00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:35.580

Tom: And we proved that they do not.

00:28:35.600 --> 00:28:36.160

Phil: They do not.

00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:37.760

Phil: They do not listen all the way through.

00:28:37.800 --> 00:28:39.540

Phil: So we know, listeners.

00:28:40.540 --> 00:28:42.280

Phil: So anyway, I believe you...

00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:59.160

Phil: First of all, it was one of the best gaming forum moments of my life, where you suggested a password, and in the background, the site's dormant administrator happened to contact me, like, in the same hour, to reset my password.

00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:00.420

Phil: It was just beautiful.

00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:02.620

Phil: I was laughing for, like, 20 minutes.

00:29:02.860 --> 00:29:06.120

Tom: Did he reset it to my suggested password?

00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:06.900

Phil: No, of course he didn't.

00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.240

Tom: That's a missed opportunity.

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:14.400

Phil: He made it, like, 40 characters with special characters and numbers and all the rest.

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:16.640

Tom: And you then immediately changed it to a single word.

00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:18.860

Phil: Yeah, to super hot or something.

00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.480

Phil: Something, or wonder swan, possibly.

00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:24.140

Phil: So I believe you have a trivia question for me.

00:29:26.520 --> 00:29:27.640

Phil: Now, what's the stakes here?

00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:28.660

Phil: If I don't get it...

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:31.800

Tom: Then I will post it in the forum.

00:29:32.020 --> 00:29:34.400

Phil: Okay, and someone will get a point for it.

00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:37.560

Tom: And if someone doesn't get it, I will get a point for the leaderboard.

00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:39.900

Phil: Okay, but you've got 24 hours to respond.

00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:45.720

Phil: But this is all a big stretch because obviously I know everything about video games, so hit me.

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:54.380

Tom: Yes, well, we previously mentioned the male gaze on a prior episode of The Game Under Podcast, perhaps the prior episode, in fact.

00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:07.100

Tom: This concept was actually invented by the English art critic who made several famous BBC documentaries and is a Marxist.

00:30:07.120 --> 00:30:22.660

Tom: Here is one of these Marxist academic intellectuals that are going around who people never reference when they're complaining about Marxist intellectuals because then they may have to engage with an argument that someone is making.

00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:27.660

Tom: But he came up with the concept of the male gaze.

00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:30.240

Tom: His name is John Peter Berger.

00:30:31.060 --> 00:30:36.360

Tom: He's famous for the documentary series Ways of Seeing, which I'm sure you've seen.

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:37.700

Phil: Berger.

00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:41.360

Phil: So the male gaze is not a homosexual thing.

00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:48.080

Phil: It's about how literature and movies and stuff always see things through the male's view, right?

00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:49.380

Tom: In his view.

00:30:49.580 --> 00:30:50.500

Phil: In his view, right.

00:30:52.340 --> 00:31:15.580

Tom: We bring him up not due to his aesthetic theory, which we've discussed in a previous episode, nor for his documentary series, but because he voiced not one, but two characters in one of the early games in one of the biggest franchises in video games today.

00:31:16.300 --> 00:31:17.360

Tom: What game was that?

00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.100

Phil: This Berger guy did?

00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:20.180

Tom: Yes, he did.

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:30.640

Phil: This Berger guy that came up with the theory of the male gaze voiced a character or a number of characters in an important franchise that is still relevant to this day.

00:31:30.860 --> 00:31:31.480

Tom: Correct.

00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.240

Phil: I can't ask any follow up questions.

00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:40.300

Phil: Okay, well, let's see.

00:31:41.320 --> 00:31:48.420

Phil: He must be old, otherwise he wouldn't be coming up with theory, so it must be an old game, but it's got to be new enough that it had voice acting.

00:31:49.380 --> 00:32:05.180

Phil: So I'm thinking, and it might just be because my micro view of Ken Williams' book, that it might be a Sierra Online type thing, but I, no, it's not Gex, it's not Gex the Gecko, because that was another guy.

00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:10.660

Phil: That would have been good because it's early, it won't be an N64 game.

00:32:10.700 --> 00:32:12.900

Phil: Well, it could be, N64 was quite a long time ago.

00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.760

Phil: It was probably British, otherwise, well, male, gays.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.940

Phil: Okay, all right, I'm going to commit to an answer, Banjo Kazooie.

00:32:22.820 --> 00:32:25.400

Tom: No, you are incorrect, unfortunately.

00:32:25.420 --> 00:32:25.900

Phil: Damn it.

00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:28.880

Phil: All right, well, I have to go over to the community.

00:32:29.340 --> 00:32:30.220

Tom: It will indeed.

00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:41.180

Phil: I've posted a question over there right now, and the answer is Geo Hot, but this is going to come out way after people answer that over there.

00:32:41.520 --> 00:32:44.320

Phil: You'll have to put it up after that one to be question 14.

00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:49.600

Phil: So yeah, go to the vgpress.com to their gaming discussion, which is where you see most of our community.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:50.900

Phil: Yeah, all right.

00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:52.380

Phil: So back to games.

00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:53.780

Tom: Yes, back to games.

00:32:54.160 --> 00:33:01.660

Tom: I think we should move into similarly Haiti territory with I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.380

Phil: Right.

00:33:02.760 --> 00:33:09.660

Phil: Now, when I got an email from you with the topic I Dream of You and Ice Cream, I thought that this was going to be some sort of confession.

00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.680

Phil: But indeed, you had gifted me this game on Steam.

00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.760

Phil: And I'm afraid you're going to have to frame it for me.

00:33:15.780 --> 00:33:18.100

Phil: I don't know who made it or what the story is.

00:33:18.120 --> 00:33:28.460

Phil: But I Dream of You and Ice Cream, it has the same sort of visual presentation as Space Court, the game we talked about in the last episode.

00:33:29.360 --> 00:33:32.740

Tom: Was Space Court made in Game Maker Studio?

00:33:33.300 --> 00:33:34.240

Phil: I don't recall.

00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:35.480

Tom: I don't think it was.

00:33:35.540 --> 00:33:36.480

Phil: I don't think it was either.

00:33:36.740 --> 00:33:49.360

Phil: But basically, it's that how you remember the 286 or 386 Sierra Online King's Quest, Space Quest type games in terms of its visual presentation.

00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:51.080

Phil: It's made up of screens.

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:58.500

Phil: So you walk through one screen and then it loads another screen and has a series of simple puzzles that you must complete.

00:33:58.900 --> 00:34:01.000

Phil: Now, I don't remember the backstory.

00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:11.960

Tom: Well, it has a series of simple puzzles that you may complete and one that seemingly does not give you any clue as to how it's meant to be solved.

00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:13.120

Phil: Yeah, we'll get to that.

00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:16.960

Phil: But do you have the name of the developer or anything like that?

00:34:17.520 --> 00:34:20.080

Phil: I can tell people it is available on Steam, first of all.

00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:41.380

Tom: Yes, it was developed and published by one, Amelios Manolides, who I believe is Greek, I assume is Greek anyway, and there are several instances of Greek writing in the game itself, although all the dialogue is in English, or the language of your choice has been translated into several different languages as well.

00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:45.380

Phil: The name of the game again is I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.760

Phil: Now, what's the premise behind the story?

00:34:47.780 --> 00:34:51.040

Phil: Because I thought it was pretty okay slash clever.

00:34:51.960 --> 00:35:03.200

Tom: Well, the premise of the story is that an extraterrestrial who looks very much like Woody from Toy Story or some sort of cowboy.

00:35:03.220 --> 00:35:04.220

Phil: No, definitely, yeah.

00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:27.740

Tom: Woody obviously has come to Earth and upon arrival at Earth, begins asking, first of all, enslaves everyone and then begins asking scientists, you don't know where they have come from or what they're doing there at the beginning of the game, a variety of questions about how humanity functions.

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:43.220

Tom: And one of the most enjoyable parts of the game is, sorry, I said all the writing was in English, but all the dialogue, more to the point, is in logograms, I think the term is.

00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:59.520

Tom: So basically, if he is asking you what is the result of aging, there will be a picture of a person, then an arrow to the right and an old person and then a question mark after it.

00:36:01.140 --> 00:36:24.360

Tom: And that adds to the way the story is presented in a really enjoyable way, particularly given that you are communicating with an extraterrestrial being who does not understand how your species works and you do not understand how their species works either.

00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:35.560

Tom: This is an added layer of interestingness when you consider that the way that you are talking to the other characters is also exactly the same.

00:36:36.380 --> 00:36:48.160

Tom: This is interesting because, as it says in the description of The Game, it is about imperialism, the loss of identity and personal sacrifice.

00:36:48.700 --> 00:37:18.320

Tom: And while I've not seen anyone interpret the questions that are asked and the way in which he kills people given certain answers or not to those questions, because after he asks a question, the scene ends with either the scientists surviving and walking off or all of them being killed to be replaced by other scientists the next time a question is asked.

00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:34.420

Tom: And before I get to that actually, because that will arguably going to spoil the territory, I should probably add the puzzles in the game, the structure of you exploring the world is basically like a point and click adventure game.

00:37:34.820 --> 00:37:54.300

Tom: And there are a few environmental based puzzles where you are, for example, moving cages in a certain order so that you can move from one section of a room to the next by walking through the cages when they are in the right place.

00:37:55.060 --> 00:38:15.080

Tom: As an example, the majority of the puzzles are in the vein of older adventure games like Myst or puzzle games that are sort of in their newer iterations, not really conceived of as being adventure games and thought of in a different context.

00:38:15.100 --> 00:38:19.320

Tom: So as you are exploring, you will, for example, come across a machine.

00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:30.920

Tom: You will interact with that machine, and that machine will have its own self-contained puzzle that has its own rules totally unrelated to any other sort of puzzle in the rest of the game.

00:38:32.060 --> 00:38:44.140

Tom: And it's a very short game, so this may not be too surprising, but they managed to make all of these unique self-contained puzzles interesting and satisfying to solve.

00:38:44.860 --> 00:38:48.120

Tom: And each time you solve a puzzle, you get half a star.

00:38:48.620 --> 00:38:53.860

Tom: And once you have a whole star, you can basically use that as a hint if you're stuck on a puzzle.

00:38:54.420 --> 00:39:31.580

Tom: And what happens when you do that is the first few actions that you need to take in a puzzle to solve it, the game will do for you, which acts as a clue because if you haven't worked out from the basic information presented to you at the beginning of the puzzle, it is showing you the direction in which you should be going by solving a little bit of it because most of the puzzles structurally, once you've figured out how they actually work, you should be able to progressively go through the puzzle and complete it.

00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:34.240

Tom: So that's an interesting system.

00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:41.140

Tom: With the exception of one puzzle, which involves batteries, the hint did not help me there.

00:39:42.040 --> 00:40:06.380

Tom: And I had to look it up, and I am not ashamed to say that because even reading a description of how it is meant to work, and I was not the only person who, upon reading a description of how it was meant to work, it appears to not really follow any logic, including to people who solved it without help, apparently.

00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:12.060

Tom: So that was the one potential misstep in the puzzle design, but it is only one.

00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:28.300

Tom: I think if you approach it as either a puzzle or as a point-and-click adventure game, it is equally enjoyable because the puzzles are fun, logical except for one, and satisfying to solve.

00:40:30.200 --> 00:40:34.100

Tom: And a couple of them are reasonably challenging, that they are very satisfying to solve.

00:40:34.740 --> 00:40:41.880

Tom: And the narrative is absolutely incredible, which we will be getting to in more detail in a moment.

00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:50.160

Tom: And the last thing I would add before I get on to spoilers is, this is essentially Braid.

00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:52.660

Tom: Not in the sense that it is like Braid.

00:40:52.940 --> 00:40:53.660

Phil: Spoilers!

00:40:54.220 --> 00:40:58.520

Tom: Not in the sense that it is like Braid in terms of either its narrative or gameplay.

00:40:58.540 --> 00:40:59.840

Tom: Certainly Braid's gameplay.

00:40:59.860 --> 00:41:02.280

Phil: So it's about how he broke up with girlfriend, what he did?

00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:03.800

Tom: No, he didn't.

00:41:04.580 --> 00:41:05.380

Tom: I mean, he may have.

00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.000

Tom: It depends on your interpretation.

00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.100

Tom: But this is my point.

00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:12.220

Tom: He probably didn't.

00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:14.940

Phil: This is your point.

00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.260

Tom: That is my point entirely.

00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:24.140

Tom: That it's not a game about video game addiction and some fuckwit breaking up with their girlfriend.

00:41:24.540 --> 00:41:32.660

Tom: This, rather than presenting cool, serious, metaphorical content.

00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:33.940

Phil: Who are you calling a fuckwit?

00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:34.600

Phil: Joe Blow?

00:41:35.020 --> 00:41:35.560

Tom: Correct.

00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:37.040

Tom: I'm calling Joe Blow a fuckwit.

00:41:37.100 --> 00:41:37.680

Phil: John Blow.

00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:40.860

Tom: To present a totally banal and uninteresting story.

00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:46.360

Phil: John Blow makes the most pretentious games in video game history.

00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:47.300

Tom: This is what I'm saying.

00:41:47.380 --> 00:41:49.600

Phil: He is the Ernest Cline of...

00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:51.240

Tom: What Cline?

00:41:51.560 --> 00:41:53.860

Phil: Ernest Cline, the author of Ready Player.

00:41:55.020 --> 00:41:57.400

Phil: But, hey, he made The Witness, you know.

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:00.880

Tom: And Braid as a game is brilliant.

00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.600

Tom: Everything else about it is not so good.

00:42:05.620 --> 00:42:07.420

Tom: But this is my point.

00:42:07.460 --> 00:42:25.080

Tom: Unlike Braid, which presents itself as tackling these heady themes, with in the background a simple slice of life story, which can be just as profound as heady themes, but it's not...

00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:39.440

Tom: What do we learn in Braid, or relate to in Braid, or go through the motions of a touching story in Braid about the ending of a relationship or playing a video game?

00:42:39.640 --> 00:43:00.880

Tom: The answer is fucking nothing, even less than the shitty metaphors it is using as if it is presenting the seriousness of the destruction of a relationship as how this can be so great as a nuclear bomb exploding or some bullshit like that.

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:04.400

Tom: That isn't there in the fucking actual story at all.

00:43:04.420 --> 00:43:05.280

Phil: No, I'm with you, man.

00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:09.960

Phil: I mean, the story of Braid basically could be scrawled on a bathroom wall, you know.

00:43:10.600 --> 00:43:12.140

Tom: It would be a lot better if it was.

00:43:12.220 --> 00:43:23.960

Tom: That would be writing, I think, the story of a breakup on a bathroom wall would be a much more transgressive, edgy and profound thing to do.

00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:24.560

Phil: Thank you.

00:43:24.560 --> 00:43:26.900

Phil: You've just called me edgy and transgressive.

00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:30.280

Phil: I've lost my vanilla fog name.

00:43:30.620 --> 00:43:40.200

Phil: Hey, so this game, by the way, the guy had also made a game called Gleaner Heights, which seems to be a Harvest Moon ripoff.

00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:42.340

Tom: Or Stardew Valley clone.

00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:43.440

Phil: Yeah, 2018.

00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:46.060

Phil: I don't know if Stardew Valley was around back then.

00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:46.980

Tom: I'm pretty sure it was.

00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.840

Phil: Yeah, it was, but he wouldn't have been able to develop it in time.

00:43:49.940 --> 00:43:53.400

Phil: I think it was probably concurrent with Stardew Valley.

00:43:53.720 --> 00:44:09.520

Tom: He also made a game called Iron Ball, which is, I believe, some sort of platforming game, which I thought looked okay, but this really sold it to me, and I have to play it at some point now.

00:44:09.520 --> 00:44:12.360

Tom: The Steam review by Yomigayl.

00:44:13.100 --> 00:44:17.920

Tom: Nice game, but I'm not fond of Devalis' session with homoerotic pros.

00:44:18.140 --> 00:44:20.280

Phil: Is that the guy who's going to die in two days?

00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:21.860

Tom: No.

00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:23.240

Phil: Okay, that's the other guy.

00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:24.200

Tom: Unfortunately not.

00:44:25.100 --> 00:44:30.420

Phil: There's a guy on Steam that writes a review for every game that basically says, Thank you for making this game.

00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.780

Phil: I'm about to die in two days, and this changed my life forever.

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:38.940

Phil: And then if you just look at his username and go look at all his reviews, it's the exact same review on every game.

00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.060

Phil: He's obviously trying to scam for something.

00:44:42.160 --> 00:44:43.640

Tom: Or he's going out with a bang.

00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:47.900

Phil: The name of the game is I Dream of You and Ice Cream on Steam.

00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:49.500

Phil: Well, it's on Steam.

00:44:49.520 --> 00:44:50.540

Phil: That's not the name of the game.

00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:59.600

Phil: But when you sent it to me, I thought, and this is a callback, I didn't look at who had made it.

00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:04.580

Phil: I thought this must be Tim Keenan's new game that you've come across.

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.780

Phil: And Tim Keenan, you interviewed in Episode 48.

00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:12.180

Phil: What games was he known for?

00:45:14.200 --> 00:45:19.200

Tom: A virus named Tom and Duskers.

00:45:19.220 --> 00:45:21.980

Tom: You still see the odd reference to Duskers, impressively.

00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:31.220

Phil: And I don't know if he's still active or not, but if you go back and listen to Episode 48, it's absolutely epic and wonderful to listen to.

00:45:32.220 --> 00:45:39.980

Tom: While we're on the topic of interviews, I mentioned in a previous episode my disdain for popular podcasts.

00:45:40.120 --> 00:45:45.320

Tom: And there's another category of podcasts that I have to bring up that are just totally insufferable.

00:45:46.040 --> 00:45:53.540

Tom: And they are podcasts where if they were not interviewing guests, they would be an amusing show.

00:45:53.560 --> 00:45:59.340

Tom: An example of this is Bobby Lee from Mad TV's podcast.

00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:06.880

Tom: He is obviously, and the people he has on as co-hosts, obviously very entertaining media figures.

00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:09.520

Tom: But they are interviewing people.

00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:11.880

Tom: At least they claim to be interviewing people.

00:46:12.100 --> 00:46:27.400

Tom: But of course the interviews consist of merely a stream of consciousness show by Bobby Lee and his co-hosts who riff on one another with the guest standing there shell shocked by what is going on.

00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:32.060

Phil: What's the name of the podcast?

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:33.860

Tom: Tiger Belly, I think.

00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:34.640

Phil: Tiger Belly?

00:46:35.080 --> 00:46:35.440

Tom: Yes.

00:46:35.700 --> 00:46:37.380

Phil: Sounds like what I had for dinner last night.

00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:39.920

Phil: But back to this game.

00:46:40.540 --> 00:46:44.400

Phil: Do you pick up what I'm putting down there, re Tim Keenan?

00:46:46.040 --> 00:46:51.700

Tom: It could be, just because it is an indie game with a low budget.

00:46:52.060 --> 00:46:53.280

Phil: And some puzzle elements.

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.920

Tom: Yeah, and some puzzle elements.

00:46:54.940 --> 00:46:58.120

Tom: But I mean, that's a pretty standard fare for indie games.

00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:00.440

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:47:01.020 --> 00:47:01.640

Phil: I guess.

00:47:01.660 --> 00:47:05.360

Phil: But this one is distinctive in the graphical style and all the rest of it.

00:47:05.560 --> 00:47:07.480

Phil: Low budget, I guess, is what you're talking about.

00:47:07.660 --> 00:47:07.980

Tom: Yep.

00:47:08.980 --> 00:47:24.940

Tom: And I think the thing is that like a Tim Keenan game, regardless of the budget involved or whatever medium it's using, this is, for example, using Game Maker Studio, of which there are a million games that all look identical.

00:47:25.080 --> 00:47:29.020

Tom: And if you look at this, you can see it is made in Game Maker Studio.

00:47:29.340 --> 00:47:36.860

Tom: But nevertheless, a real handmade feel and a distinctive aesthetic immediately comes across.

00:47:37.520 --> 00:47:46.840

Tom: And there's real knowledge and skill in the game, knowing exactly where to put all the effort into making certain things look good.

00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:51.380

Phil: So on to the story, you wanted to talk about the themes of this thing?

00:47:52.060 --> 00:47:52.400

Tom: Yes.

00:47:52.560 --> 00:48:02.880

Tom: Well, it is billed, as I said, as a game about imperialism, personal sacrifice and the loss of identity.

00:48:03.020 --> 00:48:07.660

Phil: We've got a thousand things to talk about, but do you think imperialism is a relevant topic these days?

00:48:09.020 --> 00:48:09.640

Tom: Absolutely.

00:48:10.140 --> 00:48:11.080

Phil: Vis-a-vis China?

00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:25.100

Tom: Well, I think China, the most interesting thing about Chinese imperialism, is the way in which it is deliberately going against the Western modes of imperialism.

00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:26.200

Phil: All right.

00:48:26.220 --> 00:48:28.420

Phil: We'll save that for another topic, because I disagree.

00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:31.980

Phil: So get into the story of...

00:48:32.260 --> 00:48:38.480

Phil: and this is going to touch on some spoilers, but we've got to say the story is not necessarily the hook, or is it?

00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:55.380

Tom: Well, the story is the hook, and you would need to use examples of particular countries, because certainly, internally, in the areas that China considers to be part of its land, it is absolutely on the Western model.

00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:06.540

Tom: But the way in which they use debt is legally significantly different to the way in which Western countries use debt.

00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:07.700

Phil: Not getting into it.

00:49:08.680 --> 00:49:10.360

Phil: Back to I Dream of You and Ice Cream.

00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:11.440

Tom: No, you brought that up.

00:49:11.620 --> 00:49:12.280

Phil: We're not bringing it...

00:49:12.300 --> 00:49:13.140

Phil: We're not going into it.

00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:15.160

Phil: I could talk an hour on this topic.

00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:16.960

Phil: I don't necessarily disagree.

00:49:19.340 --> 00:49:19.920

Tom: I'm waiting.

00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:20.900

Phil: We've got other beef.

00:49:22.220 --> 00:49:23.620

Tom: Give me your pithy response.

00:49:23.640 --> 00:49:24.920

Phil: It's a video game podcast.

00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:26.120

Tom: Give it.

00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:28.720

Tom: This game is about imperialism.

00:49:28.780 --> 00:49:29.840

Tom: It's clearly relevant.

00:49:30.220 --> 00:49:31.080

Phil: Okay, it's not.

00:49:32.080 --> 00:49:38.680

Phil: I would say that more of the cultural imperialism and the economic imperialism is what you're seeing coming out of China.

00:49:38.700 --> 00:49:43.220

Phil: Not the traditional Western one, which is where we go into a country and we actually occupy it.

00:49:43.520 --> 00:49:48.720

Phil: They're not doing it by occupation in a physical sense or a militaristic sense.

00:49:49.520 --> 00:49:58.900

Phil: More so, they're doing it through cultural influence, like getting us all to learn how to speak Chinese 15 years ago in Australia, buying up our land and all the rest of it.

00:49:59.300 --> 00:50:00.520

Phil: Haven't got anything against it.

00:50:00.680 --> 00:50:01.980

Phil: China can buy whatever they want.

00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:06.880

Tom: That part of it is absolutely the same as Western imperialism.

00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:08.060

Phil: Okay, all right, fair enough.

00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.160

Tom: That aspect of soft power, definitely the same.

00:50:11.180 --> 00:50:11.400

Phil: Yep.

00:50:12.120 --> 00:50:12.340

Phil: Yep.

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:17.740

Tom: So, speaking of soft power and imperialism...

00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:21.820

Phil: Soft power, is that what you call your unit?

00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.940

Phil: Okay, I pledge...

00:50:25.020 --> 00:50:26.940

Tom: My unit is max power, actually.

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:32.780

Phil: I pledged years ago that we weren't going to do dick jokes in this podcast, so I may have to censor that and edit that out.

00:50:34.740 --> 00:50:35.920

Phil: But soft power, come on.

00:50:37.620 --> 00:50:40.080

Tom: Yep, so...

00:50:40.100 --> 00:50:43.280

Tom: So, as I said, Woody is asking questions.

00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:43.960

Tom: Woody.

00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:45.960

Tom: Woody is asking questions.

00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:49.000

Tom: Yes, he is.

00:50:50.680 --> 00:50:56.020

Tom: About how humans as a society function.

00:50:56.980 --> 00:51:03.300

Tom: And some of them are ambiguous questions, others are ambiguous questions.

00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:10.580

Tom: And we can't get around the fact that Woody looks very much like a cowboy.

00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:26.540

Tom: And in certainly, culturally, cowboys are obviously a symbol of the imperialism in America in the settling of the West and manifest destiny, and so on and so forth.

00:51:26.560 --> 00:51:28.860

Phil: See, as an American, I see them as a symbol of freedom.

00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.040

Phil: And, you know, individuality.

00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:37.820

Tom: Yes, they were individually giving themselves freedom.

00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:42.980

Tom: They were, just at the expense of other people's freedom.

00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.540

Tom: So it's not necessarily untrue.

00:51:45.560 --> 00:51:48.940

Phil: The freedom to exploit indigenous peoples and rob them of their lands.

00:51:50.060 --> 00:51:50.600

Tom: Exactly.

00:51:50.620 --> 00:51:52.320

Phil: They weren't doing anything with them anyway.

00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:53.220

Tom: Yep.

00:51:53.540 --> 00:51:54.260

Phil: They're only growing.

00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:57.220

Tom: That's the Ayn Rand argument.

00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:08.640

Tom: Private property is a steadfast law, until I want your property, in which case I will invent a reason as to why you no longer have a right to that property.

00:52:08.640 --> 00:52:09.160

Phil: That's right.

00:52:09.680 --> 00:52:11.780

Phil: I'm going to let you go uninterrupted now.

00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:12.740

Phil: Yes.

00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:19.760

Tom: As you can tell, unlike all of these fucking people in the games media, we are experts on this topic.

00:52:20.180 --> 00:52:25.440

Tom: So I can actually comment on what the Imperius themes might be in this game, if we ever get to it, that is.

00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:49.740

Tom: In the very little commentary I've seen on the game, the fact that it is billed as being about imperialism is usually ignored by the commentary on what the meaning of the questions is and why does he kill people for answering in certain ways and not kill them for answering in certain ways.

00:52:50.140 --> 00:53:11.200

Tom: And if you're considering this in terms of imperialism, you can see the questions going in the direction of certain cultural touchstones that have been a part of imperialist strategy and culture.

00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:27.480

Tom: So for example, it begins with simple questions about the basic functioning things, as I said, but it soon then begins asking questions like, you'll get a logogram of a black person and a white person, and there will be a question mark.

00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:33.280

Tom: So it will then be asking why is there a difference here, or is there a difference here for that matter.

00:53:34.220 --> 00:53:44.160

Tom: The scientists will then answer that the two different faces equals the same thing, at which point they are all killed.

00:53:44.600 --> 00:54:01.940

Tom: Well, obviously, once Christianity started being a little less cruel among elites as they're called today, race obviously became a massively important part of imperialism.

00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:19.380

Tom: And pretty much all the questions where the theme can very obviously be drawn to a culture of imperialism and the answer does not support the culture of imperialism, that is when people are killed.

00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:35.680

Tom: And as you're also going along, the questions also sort of begin to reveal potential motivations for this that may go against the justifications for it that Woody is indoctrinating the scientists with.

00:54:35.780 --> 00:54:43.640

Tom: And the game ends very interestingly with the final question being essentially, what is the point of money?

00:54:44.020 --> 00:54:52.100

Tom: And with the way that the game ends, we do not get to see what his answer to that would have been, which is a...

00:54:52.480 --> 00:55:02.420

Tom: I think at first I was a bit annoyed by that, but I think on reflection, it is an interesting way to end the game ultimately.

00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:04.200

Phil: Yeah, I think it is a good way to end the game.

00:55:04.220 --> 00:55:07.740

Phil: Just, you know, what's the meaning of life 42?

00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:12.060

Phil: You know, I mean, I think it's good to leave it on an open...

00:55:12.080 --> 00:55:19.480

Phil: rather than provide the audience an answer, it's better to give them something to keep them thinking about it and coming back to it, you know.

00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:21.420

Phil: I think that's the way it should be.

00:55:23.080 --> 00:55:57.740

Tom: Indeed, and it's quite bizarre to me that most of the commentary I saw in the game totally ignored that questions, for example, about racism, then killing everyone when they answer that race may not be real is a pretty blatant and obvious comment on imperialism, given that these questions are being given to a population by the person who has enslaved them.

00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:35.400

Tom: But most of the commentary on questions like that, for example, was that the people were answering in too simplistic a manner, and that if you actually consider something like race, for example, well, it's more complicated than you being able to answer that either races are the same or race doesn't exist and this sort of thing, which appears to me to be not necessarily misreading of what the point was, because what the point was, who knows, but certainly a misreading of the narrative that is introduced with an explicit statement.

00:56:35.780 --> 00:56:45.880

Tom: And it's also a misreading of the storytelling because the question itself is equally simplistic to the answer.

00:56:47.140 --> 00:56:52.760

Phil: Yes, it's an interesting topic and interesting game.

00:56:53.420 --> 00:56:55.460

Phil: So it delivers on two fronts.

00:56:55.600 --> 00:56:59.140

Phil: It's stimulating to the mind and also provides some fun challenges.

00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:10.380

Phil: I think the puzzles weren't overly easy, but they weren't overly difficult other than that one obtuse one, which is really unfortunate because that could be a killer for a lot of people.

00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:12.480

Phil: But the game's been out since 2020.

00:57:12.500 --> 00:57:13.340

Phil: It's been around.

00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:29.620

Phil: So you think that they would have, he would have patched around that in terms of seeing where people get in terms of the trophies, you know, but I would just think so many people stop at that one puzzle and just never get back into the game, which is really unfortunate.

00:57:29.640 --> 00:57:33.060

Phil: So are you going to roll out your die of destiny for this one?

00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:34.360

Tom: I am indeed.

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:35.640

Phil: Okay, here it comes, folks.

00:57:38.140 --> 00:57:39.200

Phil: Clickety clack.

00:57:39.500 --> 00:57:41.780

Phil: I'm going to guess that's a four.

00:57:42.340 --> 00:57:56.420

Tom: No, unfortunately, I Dream of Ice Cream, which, as I said, is the game braid wanted to be on so many levels and would potentially be my Game of the Year of 2020.

00:57:57.120 --> 00:57:59.780

Tom: Unfortunately, receives a one out of ten.

00:58:00.600 --> 00:58:00.940

Phil: Yep.

00:58:01.140 --> 00:58:02.640

Phil: Well, die can't lie.

00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:04.800

Phil: Die can't lie.

00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:11.880

Phil: We'll move on to two very hot games, Super Hot and Hotshot Racing.

00:58:15.240 --> 00:58:16.640

Tom: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:58:16.660 --> 00:58:18.120

Tom: The one last thing I would add...

00:58:20.420 --> 00:58:21.420

Tom: No, no, no, no.

00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:23.000

Tom: This comes after the die roll.

00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:37.040

Tom: Because I think it's actually the most interesting statement on imperialism, given the strategy of most anti-racists today.

00:58:37.060 --> 00:58:44.060

Phil: Just so you know, when I do get my soundboard, I'm going to have a stinger for the most imperialist statement of this game.

00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:48.200

Phil: So every time you bring up the most imperialist statement of any game, I'm going to push this button.

00:58:52.640 --> 00:58:58.340

Tom: No, you need to get the sound of Woody screaming, his scream that kills people, and use that.

00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:01.640

Phil: Okay, well, I'll save that away.

00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:08.720

Phil: If people want to contribute to my soundboard fund, just leave a comment at gameunder.net on one of our comments.

00:59:10.240 --> 00:59:11.760

Tom: Don't add to our Patreon as well.

00:59:11.780 --> 00:59:12.520

Tom: Subscribe, I mean.

00:59:12.540 --> 00:59:14.160

Phil: Yeah, and hit that like button.

00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:15.140

Phil: Mash that like button.

00:59:18.460 --> 00:59:19.560

Tom: So, most importantly...

00:59:19.580 --> 00:59:21.100

Phil: Yeah, post Roll Die comment, yes.

00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:34.240

Tom: Yeah, post Roll Die comment, because this just clicked in my head, because again, it's a game about imperialism, the loss of identity and personal sacrifice.

00:59:34.260 --> 01:00:04.700

Tom: Now, the protagonist of the game is building a non-human, a-cultural robot, which is the only way that anyone has come up with killing Woody because he can kill anyone anywhere with his screeches, apparently, which may also be commentary on a certain meme about screeching political activists as well, but probably not.

01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:48.680

Tom: But what is interesting about that is, again, if we take the racism question as an example, and you consider that he is indoctrinating representatives from the entirety of the world who are all working together in the fight against the imperialist vision of Woody, the enslaver of mankind, instead of fighting that with a form of nativism, nativist identity politics, it is being fought with a form of universalist, anti-nativist, non-identity politics.

01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:52.080

Phil: That's I Dream of You, an ice cream available on Steam.

01:00:52.540 --> 01:01:02.040

Phil: If I didn't have a job and we did a daily podcast, I'd ask you why do you think the creator picked Woody and not Buzz light year?

01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:05.920

Phil: Because I actually think there's an essay in that, but we're not going to discuss it.

01:01:05.980 --> 01:01:15.200

Tom: Well, I told you, as I said, Buzz light year may be very much a symbol of American nationalism.

01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:16.160

Tom: Absolutely.

01:01:16.180 --> 01:01:17.180

Phil: No, hope and optimism.

01:01:18.540 --> 01:01:21.600

Tom: No, nationalism, nationalism, nationalism.

01:01:21.620 --> 01:01:25.380

Tom: They're fighting the Soviets in their space program.

01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:27.600

Phil: No, they're defending themselves against the Sputniks.

01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:41.900

Tom: For the free world maybe, but as Americans, space is very much a nationalist project by the very fact that it is an internationalist program.

01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:45.560

Tom: But I think the reason is obvious.

01:01:45.580 --> 01:01:49.780

Tom: Cowboys are the American symbol of imperialism.

01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.720

Phil: Well, they're ideals of freedom.

01:01:52.380 --> 01:01:54.880

Phil: So, okay, so on to the next game.

01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:59.560

Phil: I've just got quick impressions of Super Hot.

01:01:59.580 --> 01:02:03.140

Phil: Super Hot is, I think I said in the last episode, a subversive game.

01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:05.860

Phil: Would you agree with that?

01:02:07.540 --> 01:02:08.320

Tom: Yes and no.

01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.720

Phil: Well, I again...

01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:12.580

Tom: It's certainly got the aesthetics of subversion.

01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:21.060

Phil: I think it subverts gameplay because people are very familiar with first-person shooters, and it's done something to upend the first-person shooter category.

01:02:21.600 --> 01:02:23.940

Tom: Yeah, gameplay, absolutely, yes, I would agree.

01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:25.000

Phil: And that's what I'm talking about.

01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:29.720

Phil: The rest of it's just, you know, icing on the cake or window dressing.

01:02:29.740 --> 01:02:39.520

Phil: But I contend, and I continue to contend, that Super Hot is a puzzle game, not a first-person shooter.

01:02:40.940 --> 01:02:47.740

Tom: I would say it's both, and I would also add that all the best first-person shooters are also puzzle games.

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:50.000

Phil: Yeah, I agree with that.

01:02:50.020 --> 01:02:51.340

Phil: They give you tools.

01:02:52.060 --> 01:02:53.740

Phil: They give you tools, and I was...

01:02:54.580 --> 01:03:01.900

Phil: I really begrudge the fact that Call of Duty is off of my playlist because of the massive amount of downloading that the game requires.

01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:04.140

Phil: I really enjoy first-person shooters.

01:03:04.200 --> 01:03:08.420

Phil: I really enjoy going back to Call of Duty every year when a new campaign comes out.

01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:14.840

Phil: And I do feel ripped off that that's been taken away from me because there's not a lot of other first-person shooters.

01:03:14.860 --> 01:03:16.540

Phil: Sure, we got Sirius Sam 4.

01:03:16.560 --> 01:03:18.980

Phil: It's on our wish list and things like that.

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.740

Phil: But, you know, Call of Duty is like the annual installment of a first-person shooter.

01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:29.260

Phil: And it's shocking to me that as a genre, that has completely died off.

01:03:29.660 --> 01:03:31.300

Phil: And I don't get that.

01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:37.860

Phil: I don't know if that's because of the rise of these other, you know, service games and things like that.

01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.100

Tom: But I don't think first-person shooters in a genre have died off at all.

01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:49.760

Tom: If anything, they're currently going through a resurgence after a downward trend that was previously there.

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.980

Phil: I'm just talking about a profusion of options.

01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:58.840

Phil: Like, you used to be able to go into a store and, you know, an FPS would come out at least once a month, and now you don't see that.

01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:09.920

Tom: That is true, but that's because you don't need to, because you have the endless tap of Fortnite, PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds.

01:04:09.940 --> 01:04:10.940

Phil: That's the point, yeah.

01:04:11.040 --> 01:04:14.900

Phil: And, you know, plus you can't go into a store anymore.

01:04:15.940 --> 01:04:19.800

Phil: But anyway, I finished Super Hot, and the game just got better and better and better.

01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:27.480

Phil: I was wondering, you know, you were disappointed with the second installment of the game in which they had procedurally generated levels.

01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:39.620

Phil: I'm betting the way those developers think is that some of the levels in the original were procedurally generated, and then press pause, you know, so that, you know.

01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:45.660

Phil: But then they thought, oh, what if we just procedurally generate forever and ever, and we're going to give the players more and more?

01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:49.300

Phil: I see where that thought would have come from.

01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:50.520

Phil: But it was misguided.

01:04:52.520 --> 01:04:55.600

Phil: And the game story didn't go where I thought it was going to go.

01:04:55.620 --> 01:05:01.320

Phil: I don't know if you're familiar with the TV show Black Mirror by Charlie Booker.

01:05:02.460 --> 01:05:04.620

Tom: I am familiar with it, but I have never watched it.

01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:06.120

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's worth watching.

01:05:07.420 --> 01:05:08.560

Phil: Certainly elements of it.

01:05:09.640 --> 01:05:13.320

Phil: This and Super Hot go hand in glove.

01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.660

Phil: And I would, I think they're just as good as each other.

01:05:18.680 --> 01:05:25.700

Phil: Though I'd give the edge probably the Super Hot, though I really do like Black Mirror, even though it's a one trick pony.

01:05:26.740 --> 01:05:44.040

Phil: But ultimately, the thing that made me, the biggest impact that this had on me was that, you know what, I need to be, when a game comes out and everyone says it's amazing, and people gift me the game, as they did in this case, but I missed it because I wasn't on Steam for like a year.

01:05:46.080 --> 01:05:51.580

Phil: I need to pay attention, and I need to go out and buy it for $60 or $70, or whatever it is, because...

01:05:51.620 --> 01:05:54.240

Tom: Or accept it when it's been Steam gifted to you.

01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.000

Phil: Yes, exactly.

01:05:56.600 --> 01:05:58.400

Phil: And then that Steam gift expires.

01:05:59.600 --> 01:06:03.520

Phil: Because this was a really important and good game.

01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:11.620

Phil: And, you know, there's games like Disco Elysion, where I feel like I should have bought it.

01:06:11.640 --> 01:06:16.140

Phil: It's come out now, it's got a re-release now.

01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:22.360

Phil: And the art style of it is completely different than what I thought it had been, as it had been relayed to me through podcasts.

01:06:23.140 --> 01:06:25.520

Phil: And it's a rogue-like, so I don't think I'll ever play it.

01:06:25.520 --> 01:06:38.380

Phil: But I'm just thinking, like, you know, when the consensus is out there that this is a smart, clever game you should be playing, I need to go out and just buy it and try it, because Super Hot exceeded all of my expectations.

01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:43.520

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, it was a revelation to me.

01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:45.320

Phil: And it was thoroughly enjoyable.

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:46.760

Phil: I think I'll go back and play it.

01:06:48.200 --> 01:06:50.000

Phil: And certainly the VR version.

01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:52.400

Phil: You have not yet got the VR version, right?

01:06:53.220 --> 01:06:56.040

Tom: I have got and played the VR version.

01:06:56.060 --> 01:06:56.700

Tom: Wow!

01:06:57.100 --> 01:06:59.640

Phil: Okay, this is where you play my stinger off the soundboard.

01:07:01.520 --> 01:07:02.120

Phil: Wow!

01:07:02.520 --> 01:07:03.000

Phil: Have you?

01:07:03.540 --> 01:07:04.180

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:07:04.200 --> 01:07:04.600

Phil: All right.

01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:06.400

Phil: Well, do you want to just give me a...

01:07:06.720 --> 01:07:07.380

Phil: Is it good?

01:07:08.140 --> 01:07:11.180

Tom: It is as good as the non-VR version.

01:07:12.060 --> 01:07:12.860

Phil: The original?

01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:14.020

Tom: Correct.

01:07:14.040 --> 01:07:14.660

Phil: So no better?

01:07:15.720 --> 01:07:22.760

Tom: No, it is better in some ways, but inferior in some ways as well, due to the nature of the medium.

01:07:22.780 --> 01:07:24.860

Phil: I would imagine that it's less...

01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:28.620

Phil: One thing I was concerned about was less precision in terms of the aiming and shooting.

01:07:29.180 --> 01:07:31.620

Tom: The aiming and shooting is as precise.

01:07:31.640 --> 01:07:33.720

Tom: The throwing of items is not as precise.

01:07:34.620 --> 01:07:39.020

Tom: And that is not the fault of the medium.

01:07:39.040 --> 01:07:41.240

Tom: That is the fault of the developer.

01:07:41.260 --> 01:07:44.120

Tom: For instance, in Dance Central...

01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:47.560

Tom: And I do have to give credit.

01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:56.660

Tom: I complained that maybe the sales on the Oculus Store were not that great, and they aren't great compared to Steam sales.

01:07:57.060 --> 01:08:00.520

Tom: I said that they do not have a refund policy.

01:08:00.540 --> 01:08:00.860

Tom: They do.

01:08:01.180 --> 01:08:07.260

Tom: But what I find most impressive about the story is Dance Central is the first Quest 2 game I've actually purchased.

01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:12.180

Tom: And after purchasing it, I did not need to re-download it.

01:08:12.680 --> 01:08:20.940

Tom: I can launch the official version of the game using the pirated version of the game, apparently.

01:08:20.960 --> 01:08:26.900

Tom: So I'm playing the official version using the files of the pirated version that I downloaded.

01:08:26.940 --> 01:08:30.420

Tom: That is top level service.

01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:32.840

Phil: Well, what would you expect from Fbook?

01:08:33.700 --> 01:08:35.000

Phil: So now Mark Zuckerberg...

01:08:35.020 --> 01:08:36.800

Tom: I thought Fbook was meant to be crap.

01:08:36.820 --> 01:08:37.580

Tom: That's brilliant.

01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:47.200

Phil: Now Mark Zuckerberg knows your real name and that the only game that you've bought on his little wonder thing is Dance Central.

01:08:47.220 --> 01:08:47.880

Tom: Dance Central.

01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:51.560

Tom: So I'm expecting a lot of ads for dancing.

01:08:52.640 --> 01:08:53.680

Phil: That's a slow clap.

01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:55.740

Phil: In case it didn't translate.

01:08:57.280 --> 01:09:08.380

Tom: But I bring that up because in Dance Central, and this is not even a dancing mechanic, which is obviously the important part of the game, the menu is your mobile phone.

01:09:08.860 --> 01:09:19.940

Tom: And you can not only use your mobile phone for navigation, navigating to different places and texting friends and so forth, you can also throw it in the club environment.

01:09:20.320 --> 01:09:23.880

Tom: And the accuracy of the tracking on that is amazing.

01:09:25.040 --> 01:09:28.720

Tom: It is as if you are throwing a real phone.

01:09:29.740 --> 01:09:32.980

Tom: So there is really no excuse for games like Super Hot.

01:09:33.460 --> 01:09:34.800

Phil: I forgot you had a point, yeah.

01:09:35.480 --> 01:09:38.420

Phil: The throwing in the regular Super Hot is not good either though.

01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:40.260

Tom: That is true.

01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:42.520

Phil: Okay, so that's it for Super Hot.

01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:48.120

Tom: Look forward to my impressions of Super Hot VR with Gargan.

01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:49.560

Phil: Oh yeah, that's right.

01:09:49.740 --> 01:09:53.320

Phil: You're saving it for your other host.

01:09:53.900 --> 01:09:55.580

Tom: Well, he has actually played it, so...

01:09:55.620 --> 01:09:57.580

Phil: Yeah, well, maybe I'll play it this weekend.

01:09:57.640 --> 01:09:58.740

Phil: Then you'll have no excuse.

01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:01.460

Tom: How will you do that?

01:10:01.900 --> 01:10:04.840

Phil: I buy an Oculus Quest 2 on Easter.

01:10:04.860 --> 01:10:06.140

Phil: Just to prove a point.

01:10:06.260 --> 01:10:07.440

Phil: Just to make the point.

01:10:07.460 --> 01:10:10.020

Phil: And cock block Gargan.

01:10:15.260 --> 01:10:16.720

Tom: Are you gonna give Super Hot a score?

01:10:16.740 --> 01:10:18.340

Phil: Yeah, I definitely give it a 9.

01:10:19.340 --> 01:10:20.120

Phil: Definitely a 9.

01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:21.960

Tom: I think that is fair.

01:10:22.020 --> 01:10:26.560

Tom: I will reserve my dice for Gargan.

01:10:27.700 --> 01:10:30.240

Tom: Because I believe I may have some further things to say.

01:10:30.260 --> 01:10:30.780

Tom: I'm not with him.

01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:31.220

Phil: Very good.

01:10:33.240 --> 01:10:42.560

Tom: Before we get on to Hot Shots Racing, I have had enough time to remember the content of your review of Ken Williams' autobiography.

01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:43.960

Phil: Oh, at gameunder.net.

01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:47.580

Phil: I did a micro review of Ready Player 2.

01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:50.340

Phil: Did you have anything to say about that?

01:10:51.080 --> 01:10:52.980

Tom: Well, I commented on that on the website.

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:53.400

Phil: You did.

01:10:53.700 --> 01:10:55.280

Phil: And that was a true story, by the way.

01:10:56.820 --> 01:10:57.560

Tom: I'm sure it was.

01:10:57.600 --> 01:10:59.320

Tom: And you didn't answer my question, though.

01:10:59.480 --> 01:11:00.720

Tom: My comment was a question.

01:11:00.740 --> 01:11:01.000

Phil: Yeah.

01:11:01.020 --> 01:11:03.860

Phil: Well, I don't know who Begat Jean.

01:11:04.400 --> 01:11:06.780

Tom: Well, now I'm doubting whether it was a true story.

01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:08.840

Phil: Well, how am I supposed to know who Begat people?

01:11:08.860 --> 01:11:10.860

Tom: I would assume she would introduce herself.

01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:11.820

Phil: She was 80 years old.

01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:13.540

Phil: She's talking about Bible stuff.

01:11:13.580 --> 01:11:18.020

Tom: As so-and-so, who Begat so-and-so, who Begat me, Jean.

01:11:18.040 --> 01:11:20.360

Phil: No, that's not how it goes down, man.

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:26.140

Phil: Maybe in your JRPG, in your life, in your mind, but not in real life, dude.

01:11:26.160 --> 01:11:27.320

Phil: That's not how people talk.

01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:35.340

Phil: Okay, so then I did a blog entry about Ken Williams' book about Sierra Online.

01:11:37.240 --> 01:11:38.860

Phil: It was a proper review.

01:11:38.900 --> 01:11:40.120

Phil: It's a micro review.

01:11:40.140 --> 01:11:40.680

Phil: It's just a blog.

01:11:41.180 --> 01:11:41.960

Phil: Not a review.

01:11:41.980 --> 01:11:43.280

Phil: I was at work.

01:11:43.280 --> 01:11:45.400

Phil: My computer at home wasn't accessible.

01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:48.120

Phil: I just tapped out a review.

01:11:48.140 --> 01:11:49.440

Phil: A micro review.

01:11:49.460 --> 01:11:50.400

Phil: It's a blog entry.

01:11:50.700 --> 01:11:52.400

Tom: You were tapping one out at work.

01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:54.040

Phil: Indeed.

01:11:55.320 --> 01:11:58.200

Tom: Did you do it at your own desk or someone else's?

01:11:58.220 --> 01:12:03.780

Phil: My point was that Ken Williams is someone who has never had anyone ever say no to him.

01:12:04.200 --> 01:12:10.920

Phil: And that's why he interspersed the good stuff with this bunch of crap, these chapters that he put in his book that I didn't put in the room.

01:12:11.360 --> 01:12:20.760

Phil: The first one he intersperses into his book talks about how we've got to rank people as A+, A, B, C, D and Fs.

01:12:21.080 --> 01:12:24.160

Phil: And he goes into detail about how these people are Fs because of this.

01:12:25.020 --> 01:12:26.400

Phil: Doesn't get into racial stuff.

01:12:26.480 --> 01:12:28.580

Phil: You know, it's not bad like that.

01:12:29.220 --> 01:12:34.960

Phil: But in today's woke world, even if you think it, that's not the opening chapter.

01:12:34.980 --> 01:12:40.100

Phil: Like you don't say, oh, well, hey, listener, I know you want to talk about me and Roberta Williams.

01:12:40.120 --> 01:12:43.560

Phil: We made such great games as Space Quest and Leisure Suit Larry.

01:12:44.440 --> 01:12:46.660

Phil: Now, let me tell you how I rank people, okay?

01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:55.060

Phil: There are A through F, and the Fs are losers, and they deserve to be losers, and they'll never win in life because they're lazy.

01:12:56.980 --> 01:13:00.640

Phil: Then he goes back to talking about Leisure Suit Larry and this, that and the other.

01:13:00.860 --> 01:13:05.760

Phil: Then he goes, oh, I'm going to intersperse another off-topic non sequitur chapter.

01:13:06.940 --> 01:13:16.420

Phil: Early reviewers of this book told me that perhaps I should put all this at the end of the book, but I'm not going to do that because I need to tell you how code should be arranged.

01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:18.960

Tom: Did he actually say early reviewers?

01:13:18.980 --> 01:13:21.340

Phil: Yes, he said at the start of it.

01:13:21.540 --> 01:13:35.960

Phil: He said, now, I've been told by advanced readers of this book that interspercing these chapters with this non sequitur crap where it has absolute relevance to nothing I've been talking about should be put towards the back of the book.

01:13:36.460 --> 01:13:40.300

Phil: But I'm Ken Williams and this is my book and I'm self publishing.

01:13:40.340 --> 01:13:41.620

Phil: So grin and bury.

01:13:42.700 --> 01:13:45.680

Tom: Well, now I have a third problem with your review, but continue.

01:13:45.700 --> 01:13:46.700

Phil: Okay, the third problem.

01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:51.520

Phil: Well, the third problem with the review is that I didn't say that in the review because I had to tap it out.

01:13:51.540 --> 01:13:52.640

Phil: It's just a blog entry.

01:13:52.660 --> 01:13:53.780

Phil: It's not a proper review.

01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:54.640

Phil: And guess what?

01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:56.160

Phil: I sold a copy of the book.

01:13:56.940 --> 01:14:04.400

Tom: Look, if people can arrange sexual intercourse at their work in a confessional, allegedly.

01:14:04.420 --> 01:14:05.560

Phil: Well, politicians can.

01:14:06.020 --> 01:14:14.280

Tom: I'm not accepting any that you cannot tap one out at your own desk in a better manner than this, please.

01:14:15.320 --> 01:14:16.480

Phil: So what's the problem?

01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:27.760

Tom: You are on air as claiming you would make a great prime minister, and yet this is what you're offering up as your at-job masturbation fare.

01:14:28.620 --> 01:14:31.140

Phil: Look, the site needed content.

01:14:31.300 --> 01:14:34.420

Phil: I skipped a show because I'm getting new flooring in Studio B.

01:14:34.900 --> 01:14:37.780

Phil: Anyway, what's your problem with my review at gameunder.net?

01:14:38.100 --> 01:14:40.840

Tom: Well, three points I have a problem with.

01:14:40.860 --> 01:14:41.460

Tom: Three points.

01:14:42.140 --> 01:14:54.360

Tom: The first point, which I just had on air, came up with your description of the book, is your description of it makes it sound hilarious and potentially actually worth reading.

01:14:55.080 --> 01:15:00.140

Tom: That did not come across in the review on the website, so that's my additional reason.

01:15:01.940 --> 01:15:03.180

Tom: My other two reasons.

01:15:04.300 --> 01:15:15.740

Tom: One is I do not think that this is really a very accurate attitude towards great or even good writing at all.

01:15:16.900 --> 01:15:36.600

Tom: While it may apply, sorry, Ken Williams, as we can tell from your description of the book, would be an example of why this wouldn't even help and would actually result in a mediocre, totally unworth reading book, instead of something that is at least hilarious and ridiculous.

01:15:37.280 --> 01:15:56.420

Tom: You suggest that unlike running a company, where you need some sort of maverick genius to run things, unlike the simple unambitious matter of writing a book where you need some sort of committee in the back Not a committee, an editor.

01:15:56.440 --> 01:15:59.240

Tom: You need some sort of committee in the background.

01:15:59.380 --> 01:16:07.480

Tom: Or an editor, which is a totally absurd concept, which is new to writing.

01:16:08.540 --> 01:16:22.860

Tom: And I think gained a lot of credence, not from writing, the practice of writing, but the practice of cinema, where due to the physical literal process of making films, you do require an editor.

01:16:22.860 --> 01:16:29.060

Phil: Look, I'm saying for a podcast like this, you can be bombastic as you want, but I still edit it.

01:16:30.100 --> 01:16:41.640

Phil: But what I'm saying is every time that you've edited one of my written works, or I've had someone at work with an English degree edit some of my written works, it's always better, like way, way, way, way better.

01:16:42.520 --> 01:16:43.380

Tom: But that's you.

01:16:43.400 --> 01:16:45.000

Tom: Are you a great writer?

01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:47.820

Tom: Yeah, but Ken Williams, are you a great writer?

01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:49.940

Tom: And here's the question.

01:16:49.940 --> 01:16:50.900

Tom: What were you writing?

01:16:50.920 --> 01:16:59.860

Tom: Were you writing an autobiography about some, a name topic such as you running Sierra Online?

01:17:00.500 --> 01:17:00.780

Phil: No.

01:17:01.660 --> 01:17:01.960

Tom: No.

01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:10.480

Tom: So you were probably doing this for a clear purpose in mind that would have served some purpose.

01:17:10.580 --> 01:17:12.080

Phil: I wanted to communicate effectively.

01:17:12.300 --> 01:17:12.660

Tom: Yes.

01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:16.200

Phil: If you go to Ken Williams, He doesn't want to communicate effectively.

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:22.860

Tom: And you say to him, Okay, let's just talk about your day at work at Sierra Online.

01:17:23.280 --> 01:17:38.640

Tom: You'll end up with this book that contains, okay, what you as a Sierra Online fan finds interesting, but is an objectively worse book because as you've described it, That's hilarious.

01:17:38.660 --> 01:17:38.840

Phil: Yep.

01:17:38.860 --> 01:17:39.280

Phil: You're right.

01:17:40.240 --> 01:17:41.260

Tom: You see what I'm saying?

01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:41.460

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.480 --> 01:17:41.720

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.740 --> 01:17:41.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:42.920

Phil: I see exactly what you're saying.

01:17:42.940 --> 01:17:50.020

Phil: The book as it was being self-published and unedited actually gives me a better insight into who Ken Williams is and how he operates.

01:17:50.480 --> 01:17:51.080

Tom: Exactly.

01:17:51.120 --> 01:17:51.400

Phil: Yeah.

01:17:52.760 --> 01:18:05.180

Tom: And the other point is again related to self-publishing because and this doesn't supply to books as well, but there is an attitude that is very much against self-publishing.

01:18:06.040 --> 01:18:06.520

Phil: Oh yeah.

01:18:07.280 --> 01:18:11.580

Tom: As if this results in a lower level of quality.

01:18:12.020 --> 01:18:34.640

Tom: But I don't see anyone citing any objective evidence for this unless they believe that what defines quality is your ability to follow a convention, which is I would argue possibly the worst way of defining quality.

01:18:35.120 --> 01:18:38.340

Tom: And you can see this that even there it doesn't really apply.

01:18:38.580 --> 01:18:51.940

Tom: For instance, if you have a self-published book that has typos in it and things like that, you'll get an endless barrage of criticism or factual errors.

01:18:52.540 --> 01:18:54.880

Tom: What is this fucking dumb hack doing?

01:18:55.120 --> 01:18:57.440

Tom: He didn't even bother fucking proofreading this shit.

01:18:57.700 --> 01:18:59.320

Tom: He's got all these factual errors.

01:18:59.540 --> 01:19:02.780

Tom: He doesn't even know the subject he's talking about.

01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:22.820

Tom: May I just suggest people look up the fact that the Encyclopedia Britannica not only contains numerous typos, but an absolute wealth of factually incorrect content that has been documented by people.

01:19:24.020 --> 01:19:32.640

Tom: But because that has the status of being published by so-and-so, no, we don't notice this.

01:19:33.400 --> 01:19:35.700

Tom: So those were my three problems with the review.

01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:54.320

Phil: The funny thing, it wasn't a review, but also the funny thing was he starts the book by putting in clip art every three pages, and then by the third chapter, he's completely dropped to that, which again, never would have worked in a book that had been professionally published or edited, but again, tells you something about Ken Williams.

01:19:54.340 --> 01:19:57.420

Phil: He's like, you know what, this is kind of boring.

01:19:57.440 --> 01:20:06.680

Phil: I think we could punch this up with a stock footage photo of Moonshine, because my grandfather was made to Moonshine.

01:20:06.700 --> 01:20:07.840

Phil: Yeah, let's put that in.

01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:14.140

Phil: He puts clip art in the first three chapters and then just trails off like, oh yeah, I forgot about that.

01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:15.500

Phil: It is great.

01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:16.100

Phil: You're right.

01:20:16.180 --> 01:20:18.000

Tom: The cover is something to behold.

01:20:18.020 --> 01:20:18.780

Phil: Oh, the cover.

01:20:20.280 --> 01:20:20.940

Phil: The cover.

01:20:21.280 --> 01:20:24.740

Phil: You know, your critique is absolutely beautiful and spot on.

01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:26.800

Phil: Thank you for the clarity that you bring.

01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:28.220

Phil: Very much.

01:20:28.240 --> 01:20:28.940

Phil: I enjoyed that.

01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:36.900

Tom: So next time you want commentary on a book Phil has read, come to me, even when I haven't read the book.

01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:39.660

Phil: Well, let me read it and review it.

01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:44.760

Phil: And actually, I'm reading Sid Meyers, who is, you know, Sid Meyers.

01:20:45.160 --> 01:20:49.380

Phil: I'm reading his biography right now, so I'll be doing a micro review of that as well.

01:20:49.400 --> 01:20:50.840

Phil: So maybe we can do that on the next show.

01:20:52.200 --> 01:20:56.820

Tom: I'll have to add while we're there, because we have talked about self-help books in the past.

01:20:57.380 --> 01:21:14.520

Tom: I've read a few books by luminaries of Silicon Valley, such as Peter Thiel, among others, and I've noticed some real similarities between self-help books and what they write.

01:21:14.740 --> 01:21:53.840

Tom: So self-help books might be on the right track, but the one difference I've noticed between the two is, as well as focusing on being essentially a charlatan, but sort of being semi-aware that you're a charlatan, but also not aware that you're a charlatan is, and I think this is the absolute fundamental thing that they have in common, is the most important thing for pretty much everyone, with the exception of maybe Steve Jobs, is to, one, have very upper middle class parents, and two, go to an Ivy League college.

01:21:55.000 --> 01:22:01.400

Tom: Those, I think, are the greatest keys to success, but I've not seen that mentioned in any self-help book ever.

01:22:02.580 --> 01:22:03.780

Phil: You're absolutely right.

01:22:05.240 --> 01:22:18.780

Phil: Again, I've just got to thank you for the clarity of thought that you bring, and we are not going to be able to get to, not tonight, ironically, not tonight, for the second time, and also Hotshot Racing.

01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:25.440

Tom: I believe you also censored my follow-up to censorship.

01:22:25.460 --> 01:22:25.600

Tom: Yes.

01:22:25.620 --> 01:22:26.960

Tom: That will be returning.

01:22:26.980 --> 01:22:35.960

Phil: We will have to leave that for another show, but with that, do you have any closing thoughts for episode 135 of The Game Under Podcast?

01:22:37.580 --> 01:22:44.960

Tom: Just again, the key to success is be born into wealth and go to an Ivy League college.

01:22:45.140 --> 01:22:46.200

Phil: I couldn't disagree.

01:22:46.220 --> 01:22:47.100

Tom: It's as simple as that.

01:22:47.120 --> 01:22:48.260

Phil: It's absolutely true.

01:22:48.460 --> 01:22:55.280

Phil: Having been in America for 20 years, I can tell you that that is the only thing you need to do to find success.

01:22:55.800 --> 01:22:57.620

Phil: With that, I am Phil Fogg.

01:22:59.660 --> 01:23:02.000

Tom: I am definitely Tom Towers, thankfully.

01:23:02.160 --> 01:23:03.120

Phil: We will see you next time.

Game Under Podcast 134

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:07 Back

Trademark Banter
0:00:49 Off Topic in 60 Seconds
0:02:40 Tom Disects a List of Games Phil Wants to Play
0:05:25 Early Onset Dementia in Realtime

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:10:20 Rocket League Season 2 for Switch, PC and PS4 (hands-on impressions for all)

Final Impressions - Tom Towers

0:22:15 Donut County
0:26:00 Hepburn: Katamari Damashi

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg

0:31:15 Game Dev Story for Switch

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:37:25 Frog Detective 1 & 2

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:43:40 UNO and Battle Ship for Switch

Trademark Banter
0:44:45 Magic: The Gathering - Where are the Games?

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:47:00 The Gardens Between

Feature: Discussion on Capitalism
0:53:37 Epic vs. Steam

News
0:57:45 Sony VR
1:06:00 Oculus Quest 3 and Tom's Quest 2 Update

First Impressions - Phil Fogg and Tom Towers
01:07:52 Super Hot for PC

News
01:31:46 Nintendo Direct
01:30:00 Stubbs the Zombie & Zombie Games Development

End of Show
01:36.12 That's it for Video Game Content

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:12.960

Tom: Hello and welcome to Episode 134 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:19.360

Tom: I am your host, Tom Towers, and I am joined by one, Phil Fogg.

00:00:19.720 --> 00:00:20.880

Phil: Phil Fogg.

00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:21.520

Phil: Hey, everyone.

00:00:22.060 --> 00:00:22.880

Phil: Welcome to the show.

00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:24.200

Phil: Tom, thanks for coming back.

00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:28.580

Tom: You dragged me kicking and screaming, but I am here.

00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:39.120

Phil: We have a big show, not a big show, like a four and a half hour long show, but we have a lot to talk about this week, so we probably don't have time for Trademark Banter.

00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:48.400

Phil: But was there anything that you wanted to get out of the way before we get into some of the hottest games at the moment and the latest news?

00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:59.040

Tom: Well, we have to mention, I think, two of probably the most enticing Trademark Banter subjects that the listeners may miss out on.

00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:26.780

Tom: One of them is the top five Bible stories and on the possibility that anyone read the book reviews that I post a while, if you can call those articles book reviews, I did want to point out something about the rhetoric which I was using in my commentary on The Bell Curve as it may have otherwise appeared somewhat interesting.

00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:50.200

Tom: And another one was which is one might wonder what this is doing on a game podcast, but this sort of discussion reached the mainstream and in a big way, more to the point in a discussion among enthusiasts as opposed to a discussion among people doing political posturing or academics.

00:01:50.220 --> 00:02:00.540

Tom: And that is objectification, the male gaze and the fear of political content, as well as virtue signaling and pandering.

00:02:02.080 --> 00:02:07.300

Phil: Oh yeah, well, virtue signaling is something that comes into my mind quite a fair bit the last couple of days.

00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:21.520

Phil: Not for any particular reason or anything, but we talked about it before and you kind of said, oh no, you're wrong, virtue signaling isn't, you can't be critical of it.

00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:26.780

Tom: Well, no, I pointed out you were misusing the term and were referring to something else.

00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:31.560

Tom: I've forgotten what exactly the pedantic point I was making then.

00:02:32.660 --> 00:02:39.380

Tom: But we still may indeed have an interesting discussion on virtue signaling itself.

00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:47.120

Phil: Excellent, well, and a less heady topic, and this would probably be a feature rather than trademark banter.

00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:55.060

Phil: I've got a series, it will not surprise you that I have a series, I have a program on my phone where I list things.

00:02:55.100 --> 00:02:59.900

Phil: I list things that I've got to do, those things I've got to read, list things I've got to play.

00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:08.620

Phil: I'm gonna go through my list of games that for whatever reason, at some point while I'm walking around, I've decided, hey, I should really play this game.

00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:18.280

Phil: And then you just give me a quick, just yes, no, like, no, don't do it, Phil, or yeah, do it, or I haven't heard of it, or I've heard it, and yeah, it's a great game.

00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:22.600

Phil: So in no particular order, these are the games that I've got on my current to playlist.

00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:23.040

Phil: Are you ready?

00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:23.680

Tom: Yes.

00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:28.320

Phil: Okay, Monster, the original Monster Hunter for PlayStation 2.

00:03:28.980 --> 00:03:29.340

Tom: Yes.

00:03:30.060 --> 00:03:32.980

Phil: Spiritfarer, you heard that, it's a pretty hip game.

00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:33.900

Tom: Don't think I've heard of that.

00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:39.200

Phil: Spiritfarer, oh yeah, it was a pretty, it was up there for game of the year nominations for some sites last year.

00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:41.080

Phil: Good job.

00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:44.620

Tom: Well, that sounds like it might be a job simulator.

00:03:44.640 --> 00:03:45.660

Phil: Yeah, it's a work simulator.

00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.040

Phil: I thought you'd suggested it to me.

00:03:48.260 --> 00:03:49.560

Phil: Oh, this is good, Teardown.

00:03:49.600 --> 00:03:51.700

Phil: Have you seen this physics-based game?

00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:53.480

Tom: It actually looks very interesting.

00:03:53.740 --> 00:03:59.920

Phil: Yeah, and it actually prompted me, that was one of the things that prompted me to upgrade my PC when I realized that I wouldn't be able to play it.

00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:13.460

Tom: So, hopefully it's running better on AMD cards now because a while ago, when we first discussed it on the podcast, it was only running well on Nvidia cards.

00:04:14.320 --> 00:04:14.820

Phil: That's right.

00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:20.720

Phil: And this is a Voxel's physics kind of game where you're destroying things in interesting ways.

00:04:21.320 --> 00:04:23.560

Phil: And it's in alpha right now.

00:04:23.700 --> 00:04:37.080

Phil: So, I haven't really, I think that early access rather, like ruins games, ruins gaming experiences, but I much prefer just to play the game when it's finally out.

00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:38.640

Phil: There is no game.

00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:42.860

Tom: I thought you were making a comment on Teardown there.

00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:44.060

Phil: No, no, that's the name of the game.

00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:45.000

Phil: You haven't heard of that one either?

00:04:45.260 --> 00:04:45.940

Tom: I don't think so.

00:04:46.980 --> 00:04:47.900

Phil: Hotshot Races.

00:04:49.060 --> 00:04:49.400

Tom: Yes.

00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:51.380

Phil: Yep, but that's on my wish list.

00:04:52.080 --> 00:04:54.060

Phil: No One Lives Forever for PlayStation 2.

00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:55.020

Tom: Definitely.

00:04:55.660 --> 00:04:56.680

Phil: Chronicles of Riddick.

00:04:57.740 --> 00:04:58.320

Tom: Definitely.

00:04:59.080 --> 00:04:59.700

Phil: Breakdown.

00:05:01.220 --> 00:05:01.700

Tom: Maybe.

00:05:02.260 --> 00:05:02.960

Phil: You remember that one?

00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:06.380

Phil: That was, I think, a Namco first-person beat-em-up?

00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:08.100

Tom: I think so.

00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:09.080

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:05:10.180 --> 00:05:12.340

Tom: Or was it the third-person one?

00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:13.420

Phil: No, it's the first-person one.

00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:15.460

Tom: It's a first-person and third-person Riot game.

00:05:16.260 --> 00:05:16.940

Phil: No, no, no.

00:05:16.960 --> 00:05:24.720

Phil: Breakdown is a first-person game developed in Japan, and I stopped playing it back when I had it for the Xbox.

00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:27.640

Phil: I still have it for the Xbox, because it makes me nauseous.

00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:30.460

Phil: But it's one of the backward compatible games for the Xbox.

00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.820

Tom: I was thinking of something else, but I do remember this.

00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.440

Phil: Oh, yeah, you're thinking of Breakdown.

00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:37.440

Phil: Yeah, or Crackdown.

00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:38.140

Phil: Crackdown.

00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:39.900

Tom: No, not Crackdown, not Breakdown.

00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:41.520

Tom: I can't really call the name of it.

00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:43.440

Tom: But, um, gone.

00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.200

Phil: There was a game I thought called Breakdown for the Genesis and Super Nintendo that was a separate game.

00:05:48.280 --> 00:05:51.400

Phil: It was like a top-down action RPG.

00:05:53.180 --> 00:05:55.020

Phil: No, I think that was called Crackdown.

00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:57.340

Phil: Good talk.

00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:57.760

Phil: Kingdom Hearts?

00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:01.460

Phil: Unreal Tournament.

00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:04.980

Tom: Which one, just Unreal Tournament?

00:06:05.020 --> 00:06:05.920

Phil: Unreal Tournament, yeah.

00:06:05.940 --> 00:06:06.200

Tom: Yes.

00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.020

Phil: Um, I had mixed results with that one.

00:06:10.020 --> 00:06:15.840

Phil: It's available on Steam, but I'm not sure how well it plays, and I haven't got, or if people are playing it online.

00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.340

Phil: Um, though it's okay with bots, anyway.

00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:23.820

Phil: Um, I wanted to replay all the EDF games, Earth Defense Force games, that I haven't played yet.

00:06:26.100 --> 00:06:26.520

Tom: All of them?

00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:26.680

Phil: Mm-hmm.

00:06:26.700 --> 00:06:29.580

Tom: All of them, I assume for like five seconds each.

00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:30.820

Phil: No, no, the whole thing.

00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:33.000

Tom: Because they're very long.

00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:35.280

Phil: Nino Kuni.

00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:38.260

Tom: No.

00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:40.700

Phil: And Nino Kuni 2, I own them both.

00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:41.240

Tom: Yes.

00:06:41.420 --> 00:06:42.700

Phil: Yeah.

00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:43.760

Phil: Everybody's Golf.

00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:45.120

Tom: Yes.

00:06:45.620 --> 00:06:47.220

Phil: Skitties, Cities Skyline.

00:06:48.200 --> 00:06:48.520

Tom: No.

00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:53.120

Tom: Skitties Skyline, though, yes.

00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:54.120

Phil: Pillars of Eternity.

00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:55.520

Tom: No.

00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:59.240

Phil: Castlevania Symphony of the Night, for the PlayStation.

00:06:59.940 --> 00:07:00.300

Tom: Yes.

00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.140

Phil: Mask with a Q, M-A-S-Q.

00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:05.760

Tom: M-A-S-Q-U-E.

00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:07.040

Phil: Maybe.

00:07:07.640 --> 00:07:08.900

Tom: Or just M-A-S-Q.

00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:10.380

Phil: I've written down M-A-S-Q.

00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:13.580

Tom: Well, then I don't know.

00:07:13.580 --> 00:07:14.880

Phil: I don't know.

00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:15.640

Phil: Shadow Man.

00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:16.880

Tom: Yes.

00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:18.500

Phil: Zone of the Enders.

00:07:19.340 --> 00:07:19.740

Tom: Yes.

00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:21.460

Phil: Virtua Tennis.

00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:22.480

Tom: Yes.

00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:24.700

Phil: Vagrant Story for the PlayStation.

00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:26.160

Tom: Definitely.

00:07:26.940 --> 00:07:29.020

Phil: The Original Manhunt by Rockstar.

00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:29.820

Tom: Absolutely.

00:07:30.460 --> 00:07:31.100

Phil: The Sims.

00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:32.340

Tom: Yes.

00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.440

Tom: You have to play Manhunt using a microphone.

00:07:36.460 --> 00:07:38.320

Phil: Microphone, yeah.

00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:39.720

Phil: The Sims.

00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:44.160

Phil: And that must mean I want to go back and play the original Sims, not the current Sims, I think.

00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:45.280

Tom: Definitely play the original.

00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:47.420

Phil: Lost Odyssey.

00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:49.940

Tom: Yeah, no.

00:07:50.620 --> 00:07:51.300

Phil: Yeah, I agree.

00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:52.360

Phil: Vib Ribbon.

00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:54.280

Tom: Absolutely.

00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:57.320

Phil: Yeah, I've had that for the PlayStation 1.

00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:00.220

Phil: Mobile Light Force 2.

00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:02.400

Tom: I don't know what that is.

00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:03.720

Phil: It's on the PlayStation 2.

00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:06.480

Phil: You've got to look up the cover while I tell you the rest of the games.

00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:08.420

Phil: Mobile Light Force 2.

00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:09.620

Phil: Everyone else look it up as well.

00:08:09.640 --> 00:08:10.860

Phil: It's an outstanding cover.

00:08:11.380 --> 00:08:12.440

Phil: Space Channel 5.

00:08:13.140 --> 00:08:13.780

Tom: Obviously.

00:08:14.460 --> 00:08:15.560

Phil: Tokyo Jungle.

00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:17.400

Tom: I remember this cover.

00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:18.660

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:21.420

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:21.540 --> 00:08:22.920

Phil: And guess what sort of game it is.

00:08:24.320 --> 00:08:25.440

Tom: A shmup.

00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:26.120

Phil: It is.

00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:29.600

Phil: It is a great cover.

00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:31.940

Tom: Definitely play Tokyo Jungle.

00:08:32.560 --> 00:08:37.080

Phil: Yeah, I don't know how you even get it or if it's sustainable anymore.

00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:41.880

Tom: I think it used to be available only on the Japanese PSN store.

00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:43.740

Phil: You're digging the list cause I'm almost done.

00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:44.580

Tom: Sure.

00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:45.500

Phil: It's a good list.

00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:46.840

Phil: Vanquish.

00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:48.180

Tom: Yes.

00:08:48.880 --> 00:08:50.220

Tom: Haven't you played Vanquish?

00:08:50.540 --> 00:08:52.500

Phil: I have, but I thought it was time to go back to it.

00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:55.420

Phil: Metal Gear Solid, the original.

00:08:56.020 --> 00:08:56.560

Tom: Definitely.

00:08:57.180 --> 00:08:58.820

Phil: God Hand on PlayStation 2.

00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.680

Tom: Of course.

00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.800

Phil: And X-Files, the game for the original Xbox.

00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:04.900

Tom: Absolutely.

00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:07.300

Phil: Now, how do you know about X-Files?

00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:12.580

Tom: Was that only, well, maybe I'm thinking of a different one cause I'm thinking of an X-Files game for the PlayStation.

00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:14.380

Phil: No, I think it's the same.

00:09:15.520 --> 00:09:19.280

Phil: It's got the, it's got David Duchovny and the lady in it.

00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:25.420

Tom: So, and it's like a point and click adventure game in the sense of Myst.

00:09:26.140 --> 00:09:30.020

Phil: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, pretty much.

00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.740

Phil: I've only played the first 10 minutes of it, if that, so.

00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:37.560

Tom: Then we may be thinking of the same game.

00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:40.780

Phil: So anyway, that's a hell of a list.

00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:42.380

Tom: Using photograph backgrounds?

00:09:44.420 --> 00:09:45.920

Tom: Okay, then fuck that.

00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:47.320

Tom: No, throw it in the bin.

00:09:47.900 --> 00:09:51.940

Tom: Find the superior PlayStation X-Files game and play that instead.

00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:53.520

Phil: Okay, all right.

00:09:53.540 --> 00:10:00.540

Phil: So that's my list, and the good news is I have all of these games, except for the ones that haven't been properly released yet, like Teardown.

00:10:00.580 --> 00:10:03.200

Tom: And the bad news is you will not be playing any of them.

00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:07.060

Phil: Probably not, in the next year or so.

00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:12.580

Phil: Well, I play a bunch of endless games, which is totally unfogged, but that's what I've been doing lately.

00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:20.020

Phil: Do you want to go into one of the games, or do you have any more Trademark Band-Aid or Bandy about?

00:10:20.760 --> 00:10:23.960

Tom: Well, I believe you have been playing Rocket League Season 2.

00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:25.580

Phil: Yes, I have.

00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.600

Tom: Is that a sequel, so to speak?

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.140

Phil: Well, Rocket League, the original game, was released back in 2015.

00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:36.100

Phil: I could not believe that.

00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:46.000

Phil: And I initially played it on Steam PC using a controller, and I paid good money for it.

00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:50.080

Phil: It's one of the only times I've actually bought DLC.

00:10:50.100 --> 00:10:54.140

Phil: I downloaded the DeLorean from Back to the Future, which is my favorite car in that game.

00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:07.240

Phil: And then I went and bought it because it was cheap for the PlayStation 4 and never opened it, and popped it in the other day, and it's like, oh, we've got to download something.

00:11:07.260 --> 00:11:22.520

Phil: Now, that's when I remembered that in 2019, the developer Psionics got bought out by Epic Games, and they've basically given it the Fortnite treatment.

00:11:22.540 --> 00:11:24.240

Phil: So it's now a free-to-play game.

00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:27.140

Phil: So you can play this on pretty much anything.

00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:28.900

Phil: You can play it on...

00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.900

Phil: I've downloaded it for Switch, PlayStation 4.

00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:38.760

Phil: I haven't downloaded it for Xbox yet, and I'm playing it on PC, and I'm pretty much playing it every day.

00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:50.200

Phil: So it is free-to-play, and it's free-to-play even if you don't subscribe to the online components of that system.

00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:58.640

Phil: So if you don't have Xbox Gold or PlayStation Live or whatever it's called, then you can play it online for free.

00:11:59.260 --> 00:12:02.780

Phil: And you can link your account between the whole three.

00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:09.220

Phil: So you have to get an Epic Games account, which most of us would have anyway, because you're downloading the free games that they give out.

00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:13.460

Tom: Unless you're boycotting them because you're insane.

00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:15.280

Phil: Yeah, because you're insane.

00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.240

Phil: So it's not so much a sequel as an evolution.

00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.100

Phil: So basically it's a one gig download per platform.

00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.580

Phil: It's the exact same size on every platform, which tells you something.

00:12:28.540 --> 00:12:36.700

Phil: And like I said, I've been playing this every day, either on Steam or on Switch or on PlayStation 4 and unlocking trophies.

00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.080

Phil: The DLC doesn't carry over.

00:12:40.140 --> 00:12:42.700

Phil: Well, sorry, most DLC will carry over.

00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.400

Phil: Licensed DLC will not.

00:12:46.280 --> 00:12:50.400

Phil: And your experience also carries over from platform to platform.

00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:52.900

Phil: So you have a unified account where you can play the game anywhere.

00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.360

Phil: And I hadn't been playing this since 2015, 2016.

00:13:00.900 --> 00:13:02.400

Phil: And an incredible thing has happened.

00:13:02.420 --> 00:13:04.220

Phil: I've actually got good at the game.

00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.000

Phil: Like I'm enjoying it because I'm scoring.

00:13:08.420 --> 00:13:13.000

Phil: And I mean, I don't have to describe what Rocket League is.

00:13:13.040 --> 00:13:20.540

Phil: If you're listening to this podcast, you obviously have been exposed just by secondhand knowledge what Rocket League is if you're not already playing.

00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:25.100

Phil: Yeah, with remote control cars that are rocket powered.

00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:29.440

Phil: And the ball is the same size as the vehicle that you're driving.

00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:31.360

Tom: Or several times larger.

00:13:32.780 --> 00:13:34.660

Phil: No, maybe, yeah.

00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:36.640

Phil: Probably about three times the height of a car.

00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:40.760

Phil: And Cionics, I was looking up the gameography before the show today.

00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:44.260

Phil: Talk about a blessed existence.

00:13:44.780 --> 00:13:46.600

Phil: They had three games that were cancelled.

00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:50.820

Phil: Then they brought out two games for PlayStation 2.

00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:56.060

Phil: One of which was called Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket Powered Battle Cars.

00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.160

Phil: Which obviously was the forerunner for Rocket League.

00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.900

Phil: They released a couple of iOS and Android games.

00:14:05.780 --> 00:14:08.940

Phil: And a game called Whizzle, which I couldn't find any information on.

00:14:09.380 --> 00:14:12.040

Phil: And then they came out with Rocket League in 2015.

00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:23.180

Phil: And a large part of what made Rocket League success was it was one of the very first games that PlayStation was giving away for free with their online subscription.

00:14:25.260 --> 00:14:28.000

Phil: You know, they were giving away other games, but usually they were older games.

00:14:28.020 --> 00:14:37.960

Phil: But it was the first time that a game had launched on PlayStation and had as a part of their online subscription service and got massive press as a result.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.980

Phil: And, you know, four years later, they're bought out by Epic.

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:46.460

Phil: And this is still essentially the only game they've ever made that they've had any success with.

00:14:47.020 --> 00:14:54.060

Phil: And I think it was also the subject of Danny O'Dwyer's first Noclip documentary, which you watched.

00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:57.160

Tom: It was, and it was unfortunately all downhill after that.

00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:11.160

Phil: Yeah, I mean, Noclip, actually, I meant to tell you, Noclip has a great interview with one of the guys involved with Sirius Sam 4 and the developer thereof.

00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:12.460

Phil: It's not Cry Team, is it?

00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:14.200

Tom: Crow Team.

00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:29.720

Tom: So, well, advertise, sorry, doing a tourist ad for Croatia, I think, would naturally be much more interesting than most of the places that they're advertising usually on Noclip.

00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:30.220

Phil: That's true.

00:15:30.680 --> 00:15:33.880

Phil: But that was just a podcast, so I'd encourage people to...

00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:36.200

Tom: Top five bars in Zagreb.

00:15:37.420 --> 00:15:37.940

Phil: Perhaps.

00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:39.220

Phil: I think they do cover that.

00:15:39.260 --> 00:15:44.540

Phil: But it is a good interview, particularly if you just want a little bit more insight behind the team behind Serious Sam.

00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:52.520

Tom: And if you want to know what nightclub to go and where when you take your trip to Croatia.

00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:57.120

Phil: Serious Sam 4 is definitely on my to-buy list.

00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.340

Phil: I just haven't got there yet.

00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:00.340

Phil: But...

00:16:00.940 --> 00:16:03.040

Tom: It had a rocky launch, to say the least.

00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:03.760

Phil: Did it?

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:04.400

Tom: Yes.

00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:05.320

Phil: Like, technically?

00:16:05.920 --> 00:16:15.660

Tom: Yes, technically, and I don't know if this has continued, but there was also quite a bit of criticism on the campaign itself as well.

00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:16.760

Phil: Okay.

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:18.440

Phil: I'm still interested.

00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:24.040

Phil: Serious Sam 3, to me, was one of my favourite first-person shooters when I was playing it.

00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:30.140

Phil: And I'd like to put my new graphics card to the test as well, which I'm sure that they push.

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.780

Phil: So, yeah, so Rocket League Season 2 isn't really a sequel.

00:16:37.800 --> 00:16:51.680

Phil: It's more of a coming out party for what Epic has turned the game into, which is a free-to-play game where you're lightly encouraged to buy downloadable, you know, skins.

00:16:51.700 --> 00:16:52.020

Phil: Content.

00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:53.560

Phil: Content skins like that.

00:16:53.880 --> 00:16:58.260

Tom: And as before, the DLC makes no difference, I assume?

00:16:58.560 --> 00:16:59.960

Phil: No, it's purely cosmetic.

00:17:00.540 --> 00:17:06.000

Phil: And boy, I wish I could drag my DeLorean into those other versions because you can't buy them.

00:17:06.020 --> 00:17:11.100

Phil: Like the store, unless I'm missing something, is kind of limited.

00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:13.240

Phil: You can't just like go in there and buy what you want.

00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:15.400

Phil: They've got things that they're featuring.

00:17:15.860 --> 00:17:24.600

Tom: So does that mean although you can connect your account to different consoles, your DLC doesn't carry over?

00:17:24.600 --> 00:17:26.720

Phil: No, your DLC definitely carries over.

00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.800

Phil: It's just licensed DLC, like Back to the Future Star Wars, whatever.

00:17:32.620 --> 00:17:36.360

Tom: Sorry, isn't necessarily available on all of them?

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:46.900

Phil: Yeah, because the licensing agreement for the DeLorean I bought in 2016 was obviously intended solely for the PC and not something that carries over.

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:57.880

Phil: But the game itself, the physics itself, everything is just basically the same except the backbone, like the network backbone is brilliant.

00:17:59.260 --> 00:18:03.800

Phil: One of the things I remember in the last podcast, I couldn't remember the other change that made to my PC.

00:18:03.820 --> 00:18:07.480

Phil: I've actually got it wired to Ethernet now, which makes a massive difference.

00:18:08.540 --> 00:18:12.040

Phil: Yep, but all my consoles are still on Wi-Fi.

00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.600

Phil: And they deal with the latency quite well.

00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:18.120

Phil: You can always find a game.

00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.980

Phil: I play competitive, but you can also just play unranked.

00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:27.180

Phil: And there's a ton of different modes that I haven't fully explored, even a basketball mode.

00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.700

Phil: So if you haven't played Rocket League for a while, I mean, it's completely free.

00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:34.760

Phil: It's still a very compelling gameplay experience.

00:18:36.260 --> 00:18:43.300

Phil: And my memories of it when I was playing it before, it was like watching four-year-olds play soccer, which essentially it is.

00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:45.640

Phil: It's a bunch of people just following the ball around.

00:18:46.600 --> 00:18:58.760

Phil: But if you apply some soccer or football fundamentals and hold back and wait and position yourself so that you're ready for a pass at the right time, you can have great success.

00:18:58.780 --> 00:19:00.420

Phil: And that's what I've been doing with it.

00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:12.580

Phil: So I'm not saying by any stretch, I'm in the top million players, but it is at least enjoyable now to be able to control the ball, kick some goals and having a lot of fun with it.

00:19:13.620 --> 00:19:16.320

Phil: Have you played Rocket League recently or at all?

00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:20.140

Tom: I have not played Rocket League for a very long time.

00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:28.580

Tom: I think I reviewed it originally, but since around that time, I have not played it, no.

00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:33.160

Phil: Yeah, look, as someone, I'd encourage you to hop in and give it a try.

00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:36.860

Phil: You can team up too with people on your list.

00:19:37.020 --> 00:19:41.700

Phil: Your friends list is also something that travels with you over the platform.

00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:44.780

Tom: What I would ask is, how is the matchmaking?

00:19:44.800 --> 00:19:55.620

Tom: Because the thing that put me off it was reviewing it, it actually grew a little bit after the first release as it started to blow up.

00:19:55.700 --> 00:20:06.620

Tom: And when it started to blow up was when I lost interest in it because with the massive influx of new players, the matchmaking was awful.

00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:22.160

Tom: And in my experience, you pretty much always ended up on either a team where everyone was competent or a team where everyone was totally and utterly incompetent to the point where it did not matter what you were doing.

00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:27.860

Tom: So whether you were winning or losing, there was pretty much never a close match.

00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:43.440

Tom: And the only occasions where you did have something that was even was if rather than one team being stacked with competent players, you had one competent player or two competent players on either team and everyone else was totally and utterly incompetent.

00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:51.420

Phil: I think you'll enjoy it because they have like a casual mode where it's unranked and that's basically exactly what you're describing.

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.020

Phil: It's a good place to go to hone your skills and things like that.

00:20:56.060 --> 00:20:59.000

Phil: But you're going to get matched up with pretty much anyone who's around.

00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:05.040

Phil: The other thing too that they've brought over with the Epic now that they're part of the Epic family is that they've got lots more servers.

00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:10.820

Phil: But in the ranked mode, it's better match me.

00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:12.780

Phil: In the ranked mode, you can do doubles.

00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:14.460

Phil: You can have three on a side.

00:21:15.780 --> 00:21:23.960

Phil: And in the competitive, in the non-competitive mode basically, if someone drops out of the game, they'll funnel someone right in straight away.

00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:33.640

Phil: In the competitive mode, if someone drops out and you're playing on a three-person team, in the ranked mode, it's now a two on one.

00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:41.140

Phil: And it does affect your rank if you drop out too much and all the rest of it if it's not bandwidth related.

00:21:41.620 --> 00:21:47.920

Phil: So, you know, I think you'd really enjoy the ranked matches once you get your skill set back up again.

00:21:49.100 --> 00:21:51.680

Phil: Because they are really good games.

00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:53.520

Phil: I've had several games go into overtime.

00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:56.180

Phil: I've had leads swap backwards and forwards.

00:21:57.760 --> 00:22:00.500

Phil: Yeah, and it's been a compelling gaming experience.

00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:03.020

Tom: So that's good to hear.

00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:03.540

Phil: Yep.

00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:06.300

Phil: It's pretty much all I have to say about it.

00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:12.560

Tom: Well, I have several very short games that I've played recently.

00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:15.320

Tom: One is a combination of two games.

00:22:15.340 --> 00:22:17.800

Tom: That is Frog Detective 1 and 2.

00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:20.280

Tom: Another is The Gardens Between.

00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:22.400

Tom: Another is Donut County.

00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:25.120

Tom: And there's also Lara Croft Go.

00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:30.500

Phil: The game I'm most interested in is Donut County.

00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:35.400

Phil: It is a game that I have perpetually confused in my mind with A Night in the Woods.

00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:37.260

Phil: Do you know why that would be?

00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:38.920

Phil: Was it released around the same time?

00:22:38.940 --> 00:22:40.140

Phil: Is there something similar about it?

00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.520

Phil: A Night in the Woods was, I think, our 2017 game of the year.

00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.980

Phil: So what is it about Donut County?

00:22:51.340 --> 00:22:54.080

Phil: I don't know anything else about it other than I know it's an indie game.

00:22:54.540 --> 00:22:56.440

Tom: Well, they are both indie games.

00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.300

Tom: So I would say they're not really aesthetically similar.

00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:05.140

Tom: This is, unlike Night in the Woods, basically a puzzle game.

00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:09.980

Tom: So I suppose Night in the Woods could also be seen as a puzzle game, maybe.

00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.020

Phil: Does it have cute animals?

00:23:12.560 --> 00:23:14.040

Tom: Yes, it does have cute animals.

00:23:14.280 --> 00:23:15.240

Tom: So maybe that's why.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.180

Phil: Did they investigate a strange murder mystery?

00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.040

Tom: Well, they are sort of investigating a mystery in a sense.

00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:24.080

Phil: Okay, well there's a lot of similarities.

00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:28.540

Tom: So maybe there are more similarities than first meet the eye.

00:23:28.700 --> 00:23:34.120

Tom: The real mystery is working out the similarity between the two games, perhaps.

00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.880

Phil: Does the game involve a possum-related body of water?

00:23:38.580 --> 00:23:40.460

Tom: A possum-related body of water?

00:23:40.820 --> 00:23:43.880

Tom: Yes.

00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:44.760

Tom: I don't think so.

00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:50.660

Phil: Okay, because that was what you described the name of the town in Night in the Woods.

00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:54.300

Phil: You couldn't remember the name of the town, but you said it was a possum-related body of water.

00:23:54.320 --> 00:23:55.380

Tom: What was the name of the town?

00:23:55.700 --> 00:23:56.160

Phil: I don't know.

00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:58.880

Phil: It's like Possum River or Possum Creek or Possum Lake.

00:23:59.080 --> 00:24:00.340

Tom: Possum Springs, maybe?

00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:01.920

Phil: Possum Springs, that's what it was.

00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:04.060

Phil: Some possum-related body of water.

00:24:04.460 --> 00:24:04.880

Phil: Anyway.

00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:09.980

Phil: Yeah, so Donut County, what platforms is it on?

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:11.060

Phil: What platform did you play it on?

00:24:12.060 --> 00:24:15.620

Tom: I played it on Xbox Game Pass.

00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:26.140

Tom: It is also on, I think, mobile phones, Mac, PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch, Xbox One and PC.

00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.360

Tom: So pretty much everything.

00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:33.160

Tom: And it is a puzzle game, as I said.

00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:36.260

Tom: It's basically a physics-based puzzle game.

00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:37.600

Tom: You are...

00:24:38.660 --> 00:24:44.840

Tom: Essentially, the story is you are working as a donut delivery driver.

00:24:45.860 --> 00:25:02.800

Tom: In a sense, it's a better cyberpunk game than Cyberpunk 2077, as you will find out as the game's story unfolds and becomes something of a corporate conspiracy, as well as a science fiction theme.

00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:16.660

Tom: But you are basically a donut deliverer, and the donut making company that you're working for is run by raccoons.

00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:27.480

Tom: Their understanding of donuts is that donuts are holes, and in this case holes in the ground, which collect rubbish.

00:25:28.100 --> 00:25:46.240

Tom: As you are going along, you are essentially controlling a hole on the ground that you move around, and as you collect more and more rubbish, the hole grows so that you can take up even larger items.

00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:55.440

Tom: So you might begin picking up bricks at the beginning of the level, then you will be picking up things like stoves and then eventually entire buildings.

00:25:56.780 --> 00:26:01.500

Phil: So this is a Katamari Damashi rip-off?

00:26:03.080 --> 00:26:11.280

Tom: Obviously it appears to be the case, but Katamari Damashi is as much about momentum and rolling around, isn't it?

00:26:12.140 --> 00:26:19.620

Phil: Yeah, but you know, you're starting with something and you're accumulating rubbish to it or detritus around the place.

00:26:20.020 --> 00:26:27.320

Tom: It's definitely inspired by Katamari, but I wouldn't say that it was ripping it off.

00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:34.020

Phil: You know, Katamari Damashi, don't you love it when white guys try to speak Japanese?

00:26:34.040 --> 00:26:35.140

Tom: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:35.180 --> 00:26:36.100

Phil: Tom Damashi.

00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:41.220

Phil: I forgot that its original name in Japan was Hepburn.

00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.260

Phil: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:44.580 --> 00:26:46.660

Phil: That's its name, which means clump spirit.

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:49.240

Tom: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:49.700 --> 00:26:50.820

Phil: Katamari Damashi.

00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:52.540

Phil: Hepburn.

00:26:53.560 --> 00:26:54.720

Phil: Ah, Katamari Damashi.

00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:56.940

Phil: You know, I don't know.

00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:03.120

Phil: The aesthetics of that were ripped off by Ben and Jerry, or they ripped off Ben and Jerry's, with the cow and the green.

00:27:03.560 --> 00:27:09.980

Tom: Shouldn't we also add that Katamari Damashi translates to clump spirit.

00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:13.140

Phil: Please enjoy.

00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:22.200

Phil: So, Rocket, Donut Hole is the name of, no, Donut County is, how is it a puzzle game?

00:27:22.820 --> 00:27:26.660

Phil: So, it must not be like Katamari Damashi Hepburn.

00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:48.940

Tom: Can I just ask, by the way, when you say it was originally called Hepburn, well, you're looking on Wikipedia, and where it has the Romanisation of the Japanese name, it says Hepburn referring to the style of Romanisation that is being used, not the title of the game.

00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:49.540

Phil: Do you think so?

00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:50.560

Tom: Yes.

00:27:51.860 --> 00:28:02.140

Tom: If you highlight Hepburn, you'll see Hepburn Romanisation is the most widely used system of Romanisation for the Japanese language.

00:28:03.100 --> 00:28:03.780

Phil: No, no, no.

00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:07.420

Phil: So you're telling me that all video games in Japan are called Hepburn?

00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:08.080

Phil: Correct.

00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:10.880

Phil: Hepburn, Metal Gear Solid.

00:28:12.760 --> 00:28:13.320

Tom: Exactly.

00:28:13.340 --> 00:28:15.260

Phil: Oh man, I did not know that.

00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:17.940

Phil: So in Japan, all video games have to start with Hepburn.

00:28:18.380 --> 00:28:18.880

Tom: That's right.

00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:21.840

Tom: It's a very orderly society, as we all know.

00:28:21.860 --> 00:28:25.700

Phil: In here, I thought it was like a reference to the old actress.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:27.300

Tom: No.

00:28:27.620 --> 00:28:30.760

Phil: Because they have that coffee, which is a reference to...

00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:32.780

Phil: What's his name?

00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.740

Phil: You know, the American author Hemingway?

00:28:37.320 --> 00:28:38.640

Tom: Yes, Ernest Hemingway.

00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:42.960

Phil: Yeah, what's the name of the coffee that has the Hemingway on the logo?

00:28:43.340 --> 00:28:47.640

Tom: I'm proud to say I do not know, and I would never drink shit like that.

00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:53.240

Phil: Well, it's come to Australia now, so you will have the opportunity, just like you had the opportunity to drink Mountain Dew.

00:28:55.080 --> 00:28:58.540

Phil: You just keep going there with your donut hole, and I'll look it up.

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:07.860

Tom: So basically, you are growing your hole so that it is able to be penetrated by larger and larger objects.

00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:33.260

Tom: And it's more enjoyable for the amusing nature of what's occurring than the actual gameplay, because although it's a puzzle game, it really is, with the exception of a few levels where there are puzzles, that you basically just have to pick up the small items first and then the larger items later.

00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:36.400

Tom: So there's not really much puzzle-solving involved.

00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:54.340

Tom: But the whole raccoon donut delivery service and the destruction of the town through their donut delivery system is, I think, amusing enough that it carries the game to be enjoyable until the end.

00:29:56.780 --> 00:29:58.540

Phil: So obviously you paid free for it.

00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.380

Tom: Correct.

00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:09.940

Tom: I think it's like $20 on Steam, which is a bit steep given that it is extremely short.

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:16.020

Tom: But if something is $20 on Steam, that means in reality it's $5.

00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.300

Tom: So I think that's reasonably priced.

00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:23.380

Phil: Yeah, and we probably already own it on the itch sale of the century anyway.

00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:26.980

Tom: I looked on there and I think we do not, unfortunately.

00:30:28.300 --> 00:30:34.460

Tom: And that may well be because it was originally, I believe, a mobile phone game.

00:30:36.280 --> 00:30:48.340

Phil: I didn't hear how long the game was, if you did mention it, because I was looking up the Ernest Hemingway Coffee Brand out of Japan, and it's Suntory Boss, which anyone who's played Yakuza would recognize.

00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:51.360

Tom: They need to stick to their liquors.

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:54.920

Phil: Yeah, yeah, so Suntory.

00:30:55.260 --> 00:30:58.140

Phil: So would you say it's a Phil Fogg game?

00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.500

Phil: Would Phil Fogg enjoy this game?

00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:04.680

Tom: I think Phil Fogg would enjoy it for at least a brief period of time.

00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:06.680

Phil: Okay, all right, fair enough.

00:31:06.860 --> 00:31:12.660

Phil: I'll tell you a game that I have enjoyed for a long period of time, and people are going to go, this is old, it's an old game.

00:31:13.060 --> 00:31:17.540

Phil: But it has been released on a new system, and that is Game Dev Story.

00:31:17.560 --> 00:31:18.960

Phil: Now, do you remember this story?

00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:21.920

Phil: It was by Kyrosoft, which is a Japanese developer.

00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:27.140

Phil: It was their very first game, and it hit big on Android.

00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:35.520

Phil: It was one of the few games that I actually bought on Android and played on my phone.

00:31:35.540 --> 00:31:41.580

Phil: Kind of like a 2D 8-bit, 16-bit aesthetic to it, where you are the person...

00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:50.340

Phil: It's a management game, where you're making decisions about games and releasing them and what genre it is and advertising and all the rest of it.

00:31:50.360 --> 00:31:51.140

Phil: Do you remember this game?

00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:51.780

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:31:51.800 --> 00:31:57.660

Tom: If it had been released after Papers, Please, it would be known as a job simulator.

00:31:58.040 --> 00:31:59.640

Phil: Yeah, well, it's a management sim.

00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.540

Phil: And you enjoyed it, as I recall.

00:32:03.040 --> 00:32:04.020

Tom: I don't think I played it.

00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:05.460

Phil: Oh, it is great.

00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:06.340

Phil: It is great.

00:32:06.360 --> 00:32:10.080

Phil: It's now available on Switch, which is what I've been playing it on.

00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:23.600

Phil: And it is hilarious to me because, as I said, you start out with a three-person studio and you basically decide to make a game for a certain platform.

00:32:23.620 --> 00:32:27.760

Phil: Well, for the PC, you don't have to pay a licensing fee, so you start out making games for the PC.

00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.740

Phil: So you have to pick the genre and then the theme.

00:32:31.520 --> 00:32:36.140

Phil: And different genres and themes are more commercially cost-mort or not to make.

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:42.540

Phil: So if you want to make a shooter and have it be an animal theme, you got to steer away from that.

00:32:42.560 --> 00:32:45.300

Phil: So maybe for your first game, you make like an animal puzzle game.

00:32:46.660 --> 00:33:08.540

Phil: And what is hilarious about it, if you're into gaming at all and gaming culture, as you go, you'll find yourself making mistakes, just naturally making mistakes that you've seen companies make in our hobby time and time and time again, like overspending, where you shouldn't be overspending or a new game console comes out.

00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:16.900

Phil: And as these new game consoles come out, they are very thinly veiled versions of real life consoles.

00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:22.580

Phil: So when the Virtual Boy comes out, you know not to buy the license to develop for that because it's going to be a flop.

00:33:23.580 --> 00:33:31.260

Phil: But when the Nintendo Entertainment System comes out, even though it's going to cost your studio a lot of money, you know you can invest in that.

00:33:33.100 --> 00:33:36.380

Phil: And you get to name the games and you go through the whole development cycle.

00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:40.320

Phil: You have to basically decide how to plot your resources.

00:33:40.340 --> 00:33:45.220

Phil: So you get a certain number of beads, if you will, to put into each category.

00:33:45.540 --> 00:33:46.700

Phil: So do you want to make it fun?

00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:47.860

Phil: Do you want to make it approachable?

00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:49.500

Phil: Do you want to make it really well polished?

00:33:50.800 --> 00:33:52.860

Phil: And you go through these cycles with these games.

00:33:53.040 --> 00:34:07.920

Phil: And, you know, it is eminently fun and enjoyable and funny also because, like I said, you'll find yourself making the same mistakes that you've seen occur in our industry time and time and time again until you finally figure it out.

00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:13.240

Phil: And then you're swimming in cash, and then you develop hubris, and then you lose money.

00:34:13.260 --> 00:34:15.760

Phil: But none of this is written into the game.

00:34:16.140 --> 00:34:20.180

Phil: It's your own, you know, it's like the fun with Skyrim or the old school games.

00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:24.240

Tom: Can you make money and simultaneously ruin your reputation?

00:34:25.560 --> 00:34:26.300

Phil: Yes, you can.

00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:29.260

Phil: And you can also release buggy games.

00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:37.040

Phil: So you can release games, if you're running out of money, you can release games with them not in a finished state, but then make up for it through advertising.

00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:41.820

Phil: But you can only do that a certain number of times before the public catches on to you.

00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:46.340

Phil: So, yeah, and ultimately guess what?

00:34:46.360 --> 00:35:00.380

Phil: The success for releasing very popular games is to spend a lot of money on writing, music, sound effects, graphics, and ultimately you can get your own hardware engineer so you can develop your own console.

00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:01.960

Phil: I haven't got there yet.

00:35:02.900 --> 00:35:05.000

Phil: There's trade shows, there's award nights.

00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:15.720

Phil: And then the funniest thing was you can invest in your own people, like send them on experiences, so that they can come up with different genres and different ideas.

00:35:16.900 --> 00:35:27.580

Phil: And so, ultimately, the audience was getting sick of the fact I kept making all these robot races and robot shooters.

00:35:27.700 --> 00:35:31.840

Phil: So like RoboShot was my robot game.

00:35:32.600 --> 00:35:37.520

Phil: Kill Drone, in the PlayStation 2 era, I started making a robot shooter called Kill Drone.

00:35:38.040 --> 00:35:38.980

Phil: Kill Drone 2.

00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:42.920

Phil: And the most fun for me in this game is coming up with the names.

00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:44.280

Tom: I can tell.

00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:46.160

Phil: Then I noticed there was a...

00:35:46.540 --> 00:35:48.300

Phil: I think my RoboRacer was called.

00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:50.100

Phil: It was like RoboCart, I think.

00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.420

Phil: After you go through all these genres, I was like, you know what?

00:35:53.640 --> 00:35:54.480

Phil: We've got enough money.

00:35:54.500 --> 00:36:00.920

Phil: I'm going to make a story-based simulation game.

00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:03.880

Phil: And I called it Teen Tales.

00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:04.900

Phil: Right?

00:36:06.140 --> 00:36:11.000

Phil: Because I'm like, this anime just spent so much money on graphics and so much money on advertising.

00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:15.140

Phil: And Teen Tales became such a massive franchise for me.

00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:16.380

Phil: I had spin-off games.

00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.680

Phil: So then I'd do lifestyle golf games.

00:36:19.700 --> 00:36:23.640

Phil: And so that was Teen Tales Golf, Teen Tales Kart.

00:36:24.160 --> 00:36:30.220

Phil: So I had this whole exploitative franchise going for quite a while.

00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:32.080

Phil: And those were my best sellers.

00:36:33.620 --> 00:36:39.340

Phil: I started using booth babes when we went to game shows, like Game Expos, you know.

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:44.800

Phil: So I got a real feel for what it was like to be running a video game company.

00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:45.760

Phil: And on the Switch...

00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:50.920

Tom: Did you play it for 14 hours a day per week?

00:36:51.460 --> 00:36:52.420

Tom: Seven days a week, I mean.

00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:57.460

Phil: Yeah, we did have some crunch and then we released Cyber Robo 2077.

00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:59.880

Phil: Yeah, and that didn't work out too well.

00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:03.680

Phil: But you'd be happy to know I did release a sequel to The Order 1886.

00:37:04.060 --> 00:37:04.460

Tom: Excellent.

00:37:05.180 --> 00:37:06.960

Phil: Called The Order 1887.

00:37:08.080 --> 00:37:08.600

Phil: It did well.

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:09.560

Phil: It did well.

00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:12.200

Phil: But yeah, no, it's a fun game.

00:37:12.200 --> 00:37:16.900

Phil: And so if you're looking for an excuse to play it again, it is affordable on Switch.

00:37:17.580 --> 00:37:20.760

Phil: And the translation to Switch is really well done.

00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:23.900

Phil: So yeah, I've thoroughly enjoyed that.

00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.300

Phil: But what's what you said?

00:37:26.420 --> 00:37:28.800

Phil: Some of these other games that you've been playing are pretty short as well.

00:37:31.160 --> 00:37:34.300

Phil: Is Frog Detective 1 and 2 the sequel to Frog Fractions?

00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:37.200

Tom: No, I think they're unrelated, unfortunately.

00:37:38.220 --> 00:37:42.980

Tom: That is an Australian game made in Melbourne, that I believe.

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.400

Tom: And it is...

00:37:46.320 --> 00:38:01.900

Tom: I find the title to be slightly misleading, because while you are technically playing as a detective, and the story sets up that you are solving a mystery, and in a sense you are.

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.160

Tom: There isn't really any sort of detective gameplay, for instance.

00:38:05.180 --> 00:38:11.200

Tom: You are given a magnifying glass in both Frog Detective 1 and 2.

00:38:11.620 --> 00:38:19.320

Tom: And you could whip it out to magnify things, but you never actually need to use it at any point during the game.

00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.580

Tom: So it's called Frog Detective.

00:38:22.820 --> 00:38:31.400

Tom: You have a magnifying glass to look for clues that is one of the only mechanics other than talking to people and moving around.

00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:38.160

Tom: And yet it is not used for any puzzle solving.

00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:40.720

Phil: I think I saw this game on Twitter.

00:38:42.540 --> 00:38:44.260

Phil: Grace Buxner developed it.

00:38:45.120 --> 00:38:48.460

Phil: So it's a single developer that did it.

00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:49.400

Phil: I assume.

00:38:49.420 --> 00:38:50.400

Phil: I'm sure she had help.

00:38:50.780 --> 00:38:51.060

Tom: Yep.

00:38:51.080 --> 00:39:05.560

Tom: She was the director and writer and I think the former writer for Hyper, who also did the music for Untitled Duck Game or Goose Game.

00:39:05.560 --> 00:39:06.220

Tom: What's it called?

00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:07.420

Tom: Is it Untitled Goose Game?

00:39:07.460 --> 00:39:07.700

Phil: Yeah.

00:39:07.720 --> 00:39:08.420

Phil: Untitled Goose Game.

00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:08.660

Tom: Yep.

00:39:08.680 --> 00:39:24.000

Tom: He did the music for both games and the soundtrack is an excellent mix of amusing smooth jazz with a slightly noir bent.

00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:29.860

Tom: I think there may also have been a programmer as well, but she was the director and writer.

00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:31.320

Phil: Okay.

00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:41.600

Phil: I just see just by searching for her on the web, she did a top 10 list on Giant Bomb, so she must be someone that has good PR or people are paying attention to.

00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:44.140

Phil: She did a top 10 list for them.

00:39:44.180 --> 00:39:48.560

Phil: The only game she played in 2020 was Animal Crossing, which won all of her top 10.

00:39:49.700 --> 00:39:55.900

Phil: So now the aesthetic of it is like a paper cut type thing, sort of like South Park kind of thing by the look of it.

00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:57.420

Phil: Pretty similar to Donut King.

00:39:58.060 --> 00:40:03.700

Tom: I think that's your go-to description of anything that is an indie game.

00:40:04.180 --> 00:40:07.680

Phil: No, no, no, no.

00:40:07.700 --> 00:40:09.760

Phil: But it does look like Donut King, doesn't it?

00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:14.420

Phil: Here I go, I'm just listing all my favourite donut shops from LA.

00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:15.240

Phil: Donut County.

00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.900

Tom: Well, it certainly looks more like Donut County than South Park, to say the least.

00:40:22.680 --> 00:40:35.400

Tom: But the main thing about the graphics, which should be immediately apparent from any screen shots, is the characters are very charming and endearing.

00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:56.580

Tom: And it is essentially a walking simulator, in that the gameplay basically consists of you walking from character to character and talking to them, going through their dialogue, until they basically give you an item that you then need to take to another character to get an item from them and so on and so forth.

00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:06.360

Tom: But it remains an enjoyable experience due to the sense of humour in the dialogue, the great soundtrack and the charm of the characters.

00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:19.240

Tom: The first game, however, is definitely superior to the second because there's a subplot in it about an upcoming dance battle which ties in to the mystery in a very amusing manner.

00:41:19.640 --> 00:41:27.260

Tom: And it ends with a hilarious hip hop inspired dance battle at the end.

00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:47.920

Tom: No doubt from the childhood of the developers, both the writer of the soundtrack and Grace Buxner, judging by their ages and interest in hip hop films of that era in Australia.

00:41:48.620 --> 00:42:00.360

Tom: And in the sequel to Frog Detective, while it ends with a dance battle, unfortunately a dance battle is not written into the main mystery or story.

00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:08.500

Tom: So it's not really as impactful a dance ending climax as in the original, unfortunately.

00:42:09.680 --> 00:42:10.920

Phil: It certainly looks enjoyable.

00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:11.940

Phil: Is it a short game?

00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:16.980

Tom: Yep, I think they're both well under an hour.

00:42:17.420 --> 00:42:21.260

Phil: Okay, and the first one came out in 2018.

00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:23.000

Phil: It's like six bucks on Steam.

00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.460

Phil: I've just added it to my wishlist, so I don't forget about it.

00:42:26.680 --> 00:42:28.080

Phil: And you found this through Steam?

00:42:29.140 --> 00:42:29.740

Tom: Yes, I did.

00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:30.840

Tom: No, actually, no.

00:42:30.860 --> 00:42:35.080

Tom: I got that from a humble choice, I think, possibly.

00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:43.160

Tom: And it is interestingly published by the Super Hot company.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:51.640

Phil: Yeah, I was going to mention that later on, but I thought this only thing that Super Hot had done was Super Hot.

00:42:53.300 --> 00:43:01.460

Tom: Unfortunately, they've also done Super Hot Mind Control Delete, and I played this after playing Super Hot Mind Control Delete.

00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:13.280

Tom: And when I saw that pop up, I have to say I may be biased against the sequel due to my fury and rage that that aroused in me.

00:43:14.220 --> 00:43:15.360

Phil: What rage?

00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:18.860

Tom: Aimed at Super Hot Mind Control Delete.

00:43:19.640 --> 00:43:20.780

Phil: That's the VR game?

00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:23.980

Tom: No, Super Hot VR is the VR game.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.560

Tom: That's great.

00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:29.260

Tom: Super Hot Mind Control Delete is the non-VR sequel to Super Hot.

00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:31.160

Phil: Yeah, which is apparently pretty crap, right?

00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:32.300

Tom: Yes.

00:43:33.260 --> 00:43:38.200

Tom: We'll be getting into detail on that in a podcast with Gargan, I believe.

00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:39.780

Phil: All right, very good.

00:43:40.460 --> 00:43:43.120

Phil: Look, a quick game that I played in just an update.

00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:50.200

Phil: I've given a review on the site for You Know, the card game on Switch, and my main criticism of it was there's not enough players.

00:43:50.220 --> 00:43:51.060

Phil: Well, guess what?

00:43:51.080 --> 00:43:52.100

Phil: There's enough players now.

00:43:52.180 --> 00:43:56.420

Phil: So that criticism is taken away.

00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:57.880

Phil: And yeah, it's good.

00:43:57.900 --> 00:43:58.880

Phil: It's an enjoyable game.

00:43:59.300 --> 00:44:01.080

Phil: They could certainly do some more with it.

00:44:01.100 --> 00:44:07.120

Phil: They've turned it into something that's got a lot of DLC, skins and the like.

00:44:07.140 --> 00:44:17.380

Phil: But another board game that I found on the Switch was, you can tell I've been on holiday, I downloaded a bunch of games to play portably, was Battleship by Hasbro.

00:44:18.220 --> 00:44:25.280

Phil: There's a very simple version of the classic board game available on Switch.

00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:27.120

Phil: And it's effective.

00:44:27.140 --> 00:44:28.700

Phil: I mean, you can play it the classic style.

00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:30.580

Phil: You can play it online against other people.

00:44:30.580 --> 00:44:32.180

Phil: You can always find someone.

00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:33.520

Phil: It's not a problem at all.

00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:39.960

Phil: And they've also got a more advanced mode, which has some bells and whistles, which are kind of cool as well.

00:44:40.140 --> 00:44:43.800

Phil: So I was shocked, however, everywhere.

00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:45.300

Phil: The lack of Magic the Gathering.

00:44:46.220 --> 00:44:55.660

Phil: I know you're not a Magic the Gathering player, but with the new PC upgrade that you instigated, I've been playing my PC a heck of a lot more.

00:44:56.500 --> 00:44:59.780

Phil: And I said, hey, you know, maybe I can play some Magic the Gathering.

00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:06.740

Phil: Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, there's no new Magic the Gathering card game.

00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.060

Phil: There's certainly not one on the Switch, which is what I really wanted.

00:45:11.380 --> 00:45:17.980

Phil: And on the PC, there seems to be nothing having been done for the last couple of years, which is baffling to me.

00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:22.340

Phil: It seems to me like this should be on mobile, it should be on Switch, it should be everywhere.

00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:26.360

Phil: It's just maybe the barrier to entry for most people is not there.

00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:32.360

Phil: Maybe the people that actually play Magic the Gathering look down their nose at, you know, digital versions of it.

00:45:32.900 --> 00:45:37.680

Phil: But to me, this should be something that is done and easily accessible.

00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:41.420

Phil: And if any of our listeners, if I am missing something, please let me know.

00:45:42.700 --> 00:45:44.760

Phil: Because I'd love to play it just on PC alone.

00:45:45.520 --> 00:45:55.340

Phil: Because, you know, I don't think I'm alone in that I am an avid Magic the Gathering player, but I don't have a Magic the Gathering community in my region.

00:45:55.860 --> 00:46:00.440

Phil: And I don't know anyone who can physically come to my house and play Magic.

00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:05.800

Phil: So, you know, being able to play it online is really the only place where I could do it.

00:46:06.140 --> 00:46:08.720

Phil: And it just seems like a game that's perfect.

00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:14.420

Phil: Maybe they've just never been able to get it across the line.

00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:22.120

Phil: And I bring that up because Magic the Gathering is obviously owned by Hasbro at this point, as is pretty much everything in the toy and board game world.

00:46:23.420 --> 00:46:25.780

Phil: So, yeah, if anyone knows anything, please do let us know.

00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:31.340

Tom: I don't think there are any new Magic the Gathering games.

00:46:31.740 --> 00:46:35.100

Phil: Yeah, well, I went through my old library and you can play the old games on Steam.

00:46:35.300 --> 00:46:39.340

Phil: Some of them are not available for purchase anymore on Steam.

00:46:39.940 --> 00:46:42.420

Phil: But there's no, like, online support for them.

00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:51.840

Phil: You can just basically play against yourself, which is still enjoyable enough, but, you know, you can also play Monopoly against yourself, but it's pretty sad.

00:46:53.380 --> 00:47:00.580

Phil: So speaking of games that aren't owned by Hasbro, what's The Gardens Between?

00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:08.280

Tom: That is another Australian game, and I think also another game made in Melbourne as well.

00:47:08.740 --> 00:47:15.320

Tom: And it is a puzzle game, and unlike the other puzzle games we've mentioned, this is an actual puzzle game.

00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:22.580

Tom: And its hook is basically that you fast forward and rewind time.

00:47:22.600 --> 00:47:28.800

Tom: It's very clearly inspired by Braid, but it's not a platform like Braid.

00:47:29.220 --> 00:47:42.080

Tom: Basically, you are in circular levels, and the two protagonists always move forwards if you're progressing time, and they move backwards if you're rewinding time.

00:47:42.660 --> 00:48:14.920

Tom: And you have to figure out how to get them to the end of the level, taking advantage of this mechanic, as there are certain points where rewinding and fast forwarding time will allow you to interact with things in the levels in different manners, mainly it's based on a light and darkness mechanic, as you're attempting to get to the end of the level a light that you collect in lamps.

00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:22.280

Tom: And you can place lamps in certain areas, and the light will move forwards or backwards, depending on what you're doing.

00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:29.300

Tom: And the thus is where most of the time based puzzle solving is.

00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:38.140

Tom: There are also a few tricks with some things in the levels not being affected by the time in certain ways.

00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:54.980

Tom: So for example, water may be, if you come across a tap, if you turn the tap on by going back and forth on it, then the water will continue coming out when you pause, but the tap has been turned on, for example, as well.

00:48:55.000 --> 00:49:07.980

Tom: So there are quite a few interesting little tricks like that, and there's also darkness, plumes of darkness that you can't proceed through, which you can get rid of using the light.

00:49:08.600 --> 00:49:22.380

Tom: And you will also encounter lamps, not lamps, little boxes that you can place the lamp on that move through the level backwards and forwards when you're moving time.

00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:35.000

Tom: If you need to get lamp into a certain, your lamp into a certain area where the light is going to end up, or you need to get the light somewhere that you can't access to get rid of some darkness and things like that.

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.760

Tom: So as a puzzle game, it's quite interesting.

00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:43.960

Tom: Most of the puzzles are very simple, but it's still quite enjoyable to solve them.

00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:50.700

Tom: The big problem with it is that the fast forwarding and rewinding is really slow.

00:49:52.120 --> 00:49:58.040

Tom: So it's a short game, like maybe one to three hours, depending on how quickly you solve the puzzles.

00:49:58.420 --> 00:50:12.080

Tom: But if you could fast forward and rewind at a reasonable speed, it would probably be literally half that or maybe two-thirds at the most in terms of length.

00:50:12.220 --> 00:50:23.120

Tom: So that does add a layer of frustration and friction in the bad sense of the term to it.

00:50:23.540 --> 00:50:27.000

Phil: So aesthetically it looks kind of like Katamari Damashi.

00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:29.460

Tom: I think it looks much more like South Park.

00:50:29.620 --> 00:50:32.960

Phil: And Wind Waker, more like Wind Waker.

00:50:32.980 --> 00:50:36.480

Phil: But you're also manipulating common household items.

00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:39.460

Phil: Visually it looks very impressive.

00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:47.480

Phil: But in terms of gameplay, to me it kind of evokes Brothers Meets Braid.

00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:50.720

Phil: Do you see where I'm coming from with that?

00:50:50.940 --> 00:50:58.340

Tom: Well, it evokes Brothers just because there are two protagonists that you are having to deal with.

00:50:58.520 --> 00:51:00.640

Tom: And they move simultaneously.

00:51:00.660 --> 00:51:05.920

Tom: Though often they are split down different paths, depending on what you're doing.

00:51:06.220 --> 00:51:08.100

Tom: But it is unlike Brothers.

00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:10.280

Tom: It's not a walking simulator at all.

00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.840

Tom: It is a genuine puzzle solving experience.

00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.940

Phil: I love it when Steam tells me, players like you love this game.

00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:19.220

Phil: Go fuck yourself.

00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.120

Phil: You know, you don't know me.

00:51:22.080 --> 00:51:22.480

Phil: Really?

00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:23.040

Phil: How come?

00:51:23.060 --> 00:51:23.860

Phil: And you click on it.

00:51:24.200 --> 00:51:28.680

Phil: Similar to games you've played, Life is Strange and What Remains of Edith Finch.

00:51:30.500 --> 00:51:31.040

Phil: Interesting.

00:51:31.060 --> 00:51:33.400

Phil: I guess Life is Strange had that rewind mechanic, didn't it?

00:51:33.860 --> 00:51:34.160

Tom: Yep.

00:51:34.200 --> 00:51:41.080

Tom: And it's aesthetically very similar to Life is Strange with the emphasis on nostalgia.

00:51:42.160 --> 00:51:43.240

Tom: And what was the other game?

00:51:43.720 --> 00:51:44.320

Tom: Brain.

00:51:44.420 --> 00:51:45.000

Phil: Edith Finch.

00:51:45.200 --> 00:51:46.080

Tom: Oh, yeah, Edith Finch.

00:51:46.100 --> 00:51:54.460

Tom: Yeah, Edith Finch, I would say, definitely the narrative is, shares some similarities to What Remains of Edith Finch.

00:51:54.460 --> 00:52:04.820

Tom: I would argue that this, with its more grounded story, is ultimately slightly more poignant in its ending than What Remains of Edith Finch.

00:52:06.180 --> 00:52:10.540

Phil: It's 25 bucks on Steam, came out in 2018.

00:52:10.560 --> 00:52:14.780

Phil: That seems a bit steep for me for a game that's a few years old and is only three hours long.

00:52:15.580 --> 00:52:17.740

Phil: Just coming at it from a value perspective.

00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:18.620

Tom: $7.

00:52:19.100 --> 00:52:19.460

Phil: Really?

00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:22.760

Tom: Yeah, $7.50, 75% off around that.

00:52:23.140 --> 00:52:30.120

Phil: You might be getting the Tom Towers special treatment over there at Steam, maybe, and I'm getting the Phil Fogg treatment.

00:52:30.500 --> 00:52:34.660

Tom: I'm saying when, when it goes on sale for the Steam price.

00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:36.340

Phil: Yeah, very, yeah, I gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:37.580

Phil: Yep, very good, yep.

00:52:37.940 --> 00:52:49.180

Phil: I was surprised, too, that game that you liked, Plague, the Undertale story, Plague Untold, you know.

00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:50.440

Tom: With the ridiculous title.

00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:51.800

Phil: You know the game, Plague.

00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:52.880

Tom: A Plague story?

00:52:53.060 --> 00:52:54.160

Phil: A Plague story, yeah.

00:52:54.600 --> 00:53:00.220

Phil: Well, there was a Steam sale, like the Winter Steam sale, and it was like, oh yeah, you can buy this for $18.

00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:02.060

Phil: I'm like, yeah, actually, that's a pretty good price.

00:53:02.700 --> 00:53:05.260

Phil: It's, when Steam has sales, they're real sales.

00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:17.660

Phil: I know that's no breaking news or anything, because like, a couple of games I missed out on that I didn't pull the trigger on, silly games too, like the horrible, very horrible PlayStation 2 era game, Flat Out.

00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:19.920

Phil: They offered it to me the other day for $2.50.

00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:20.960

Phil: I'm like, nah, yeah, I'll pass.

00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:23.160

Phil: And now I go back to buy it.

00:53:23.180 --> 00:53:24.300

Phil: It's like $14.50.

00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:25.780

Phil: I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.

00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:33.320

Phil: I guess they, you know, they get enough people just buying it periodically throughout the year that it's worth it for them.

00:53:33.340 --> 00:53:37.700

Phil: But I just figured if they had it at like $3.50 the whole year, they'd sell more.

00:53:37.720 --> 00:53:40.660

Phil: But Steam has all that figured out for everyone.

00:53:40.680 --> 00:53:43.420

Tom: They're only bested by Epic with their coupons.

00:53:44.780 --> 00:53:59.340

Tom: While we're on the topic of Epic and Steam, by the way, I've got a question for you because the prevailing economic theory of pretty much any economic orthodoxy is that monopolies are a bad thing.

00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:18.940

Tom: I think Epic versus Steam is a great example of competition, but a huge number of people are infuriated that the Steam monopoly has some genuine competition from someone who is attempting to do the same thing in the market rather than find niche.

00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:56.740

Tom: So it's interesting that while the prevailing economic orthodoxy is that by everyone that monopolies are bad, consumers often very much love monopolies and arguably Netflix, when it was basically a streaming monopoly, had an infinitely superior library and both the majority of orthodoxies all actually have arguments for their own versions of monopolies and why they're superior, even though they do not like to call them monopolies.

00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:05.720

Tom: So it seems that what the consumer wants, including in gaming, especially in gaming, arguably is a monopoly.

00:55:06.660 --> 00:55:21.460

Phil: Well, consumers want convenience, as we've discussed before, but moreover than that, I think collectors want consistency and people who buy video games, they want a consistent experience, they want their library all in one place.

00:55:22.120 --> 00:55:25.220

Phil: That's probably what's going on there, I would feel.

00:55:26.140 --> 00:55:29.080

Tom: So in this case, a monopoly is better for the consumer?

00:55:29.700 --> 00:55:30.540

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:38.820

Phil: And certainly, you know, if you look at the socialist paradox, it's obviously almost uniformly more efficient.

00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.400

Phil: I don't know if it's better for the consumer.

00:55:41.420 --> 00:55:46.900

Phil: I don't really care one way or the other.

00:55:46.920 --> 00:56:01.260

Phil: I've now just got a folder on my desktop for gaming, and it's got Epic, GOG, Itch, Origin, Steam, PlayStation Remote Play, you know, and I'm cool with having multiple ecosystems.

00:56:01.460 --> 00:56:02.940

Phil: It doesn't bother me whatsoever.

00:56:03.140 --> 00:56:07.000

Phil: The only thing that bothers me about it is, you know, having to remember what...

00:56:07.020 --> 00:56:08.520

Tom: All the usernames and passwords.

00:56:08.780 --> 00:56:10.760

Phil: Well, that, oh my God.

00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:19.820

Phil: And just try linking all of the PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch and Steam with my Epic Games account for Rocket League.

00:56:20.240 --> 00:56:23.700

Phil: I probably spent two hours on that job over the last two weeks.

00:56:24.700 --> 00:56:25.340

Phil: And guess what?

00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:25.940

Phil: I recently...

00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:27.200

Phil: No, I can't say that on here.

00:56:28.040 --> 00:56:32.480

Phil: So, but yeah, password management is an issue for that.

00:56:32.500 --> 00:56:38.940

Phil: But I think more to the point is like, you do typically, just for convenience's sake, you do like all your games in one spot.

00:56:39.240 --> 00:56:41.840

Phil: You do like your friends all in one spot.

00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:52.760

Phil: It is good when I log on to Steam to be able to see you and Gargan and Steel and other players and what they're doing and keep in touch in that way.

00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:58.420

Phil: And if you disperse it over multiple systems, it's a bit annoying.

00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:05.800

Phil: But ultimately, Steam has been a benevolent dictator, so I don't really mind their monopoly.

00:57:07.140 --> 00:57:17.540

Phil: But I think at this point, if you're still out there trying to fight the battle, you're wasting your time as much as you are in terms of being loyal to a single console.

00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:21.000

Phil: You've got to follow the games where they are.

00:57:21.300 --> 00:57:25.380

Phil: And as consumers, we've got to follow the best value and the best deals.

00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.220

Tom: Yep, I would agree.

00:57:30.200 --> 00:57:34.400

Phil: But before we talk about Hotshots, that's the game we're going to talk about, right?

00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.040

Tom: I think it's called Super Hot.

00:57:37.060 --> 00:57:38.000

Phil: Super Hot.

00:57:38.700 --> 00:57:41.940

Phil: Before we talk about Hotshots for PlayStation 1, no, Super Hot.

00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.340

Phil: Because yeah, I started playing Super Hot yesterday.

00:57:44.600 --> 00:57:46.300

Phil: And yeah, more on that later.

00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:46.980

Phil: Will I like it?

00:57:47.060 --> 00:57:47.940

Phil: Will I not like it?

00:57:48.120 --> 00:57:49.460

Phil: That's for the listener to find out.

00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:51.420

Phil: But let's break it up with a little bit of news.

00:57:51.420 --> 00:58:04.700

Phil: So in November 2020, there was Jim Ryan, who was the PlayStation head honcho, confirmed that PlayStation VR was not going to be a significant part of the PlayStation 5 ecosystem.

00:58:06.020 --> 00:58:07.560

Phil: And he really closed it out.

00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:13.560

Phil: He said, I'll just give you a direct quote, I think we're more than a few minutes from the future of VR.

00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:22.500

Phil: PlayStation believes in VR, and we definitely believe at some point in the future, VR will represent a meaningful component for interactive entertainment.

00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:23.780

Phil: Will it be this year?

00:58:24.160 --> 00:58:24.440

Phil: No.

00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:25.740

Phil: Will it be next year?

00:58:26.140 --> 00:58:26.460

Phil: No.

00:58:26.780 --> 00:58:28.080

Phil: But will it come at some stage?

00:58:28.240 --> 00:58:29.020

Phil: We believe that.

00:58:31.220 --> 00:58:38.180

Phil: Now, to me, if you quote, read between the lines there, that means we're out of VR.

00:58:38.660 --> 00:58:40.400

Tom: Yeah, pretty much.

00:58:40.600 --> 00:58:40.940

Phil: Right?

00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:41.600

Tom: Yep.

00:58:42.860 --> 00:58:43.860

Phil: Are we going to do it this year?

00:58:44.140 --> 00:58:44.360

Phil: No.

00:58:44.380 --> 00:58:45.200

Phil: Are we going to do it next year?

00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:45.960

Phil: Hell no.

00:58:48.180 --> 00:58:51.060

Phil: And so you can imagine my surprise this week.

00:58:51.860 --> 00:58:52.820

Phil: Sony had an event.

00:58:53.800 --> 00:58:56.540

Phil: So fast forward, you know, four months, three months.

00:58:56.820 --> 00:58:59.280

Phil: Sony had an event, you know, nothing really happened.

00:58:59.300 --> 00:59:02.000

Phil: There was nothing significant that happened at it.

00:59:02.020 --> 00:59:20.680

Phil: But there was a GQ interview, a gentleman's quarterly interview, where Sony, and in a subsequent blog, now they've made it official, Sony's announced that they're going to be releasing a new PlayStation VR system, which they refer to as the PSVR2.

00:59:21.500 --> 00:59:24.440

Phil: And it's going to improve on the original in every new way.

00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:29.260

Phil: The new headset will obviously have higher resolutions, wider field of view.

00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:34.820

Phil: And won't use the move controllers, thank God.

00:59:35.620 --> 00:59:38.540

Phil: They must have obviously finally cleared the warehouse of those.

00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:41.640

Phil: And it just has a single cable.

00:59:41.980 --> 00:59:47.180

Phil: And that's been one of the major things, is it had to have a breakout box and like 15 different cables to connect it.

00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:48.220

Phil: I exaggerate, of course.

00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:56.820

Phil: Now, the Sony PlayStation VR before the Quest 2 was the best-selling VR device in terms of volume.

00:59:58.120 --> 01:00:05.180

Phil: But still sold less than the Wii U, which everyone widely considers to be a failure for Nintendo.

01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:25.680

Phil: So PlayStation had some success and they had an incredible attach rate, which of course after you've made an investment in something, be it the Donkey Kong Congo Drums or a light gun for a video game system, you know, you're going to go out and buy every game for it because you want to validate your purchase.

01:00:27.720 --> 01:00:38.320

Phil: So, but, you know, VR has kind of gotten to that stage prior to the Quest 2 where it was kind of, you know, really for a niche enthusiast market.

01:00:38.900 --> 01:00:42.800

Phil: So PlayStation has reversed itself in five months.

01:00:44.100 --> 01:00:46.880

Phil: It won't be coming in 2021, so they're true to their word.

01:00:47.740 --> 01:00:52.340

Phil: They've said there's a lot of development ahead for them.

01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:56.300

Phil: But, yeah, so what do you think?

01:00:58.300 --> 01:01:03.360

Tom: Well, it's still rather scant on details other than the lead things.

01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:10.020

Tom: So there's not much really to comment on other than one.

01:01:10.040 --> 01:01:20.260

Tom: It should be interesting given the greater relative power of the consoles compared to PlayStation VR.

01:01:20.600 --> 01:01:33.680

Tom: So it could hopefully result in a wider market of more power-intensive VR games being encouraged.

01:01:34.600 --> 01:01:50.180

Tom: And the original PSVR I think also was not only one of the better-selling VR headsets, but also one of the better ways of getting into VR as well.

01:01:50.320 --> 01:02:09.580

Tom: So it will be interesting to see if they continue in the more budget sort of entry point level to VR, considering that unlike then, they have a much stronger competitor in the Oculus Quest 1, 2, and I think 3 has been announced as well.

01:02:10.120 --> 01:02:11.820

Phil: Good, because that's what I was waiting for.

01:02:12.560 --> 01:02:13.840

Phil: I'll get back to that in a moment.

01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.340

Phil: But with, I'm really encouraged by this.

01:02:17.660 --> 01:02:30.660

Phil: I think it's a great move by Sony, because I think we can see the consoles, and I know this has been said for the last two generations, but I think we can see the consoles dissipating in terms of their importance as a piece of physical hardware.

01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:33.900

Phil: I think the future is streaming.

01:02:34.160 --> 01:02:45.560

Phil: I don't like it, but I'm pragmatic enough to know that game streaming is probably the future as internet infrastructure improves.

01:02:46.560 --> 01:03:00.140

Phil: And if Sony, as an electronics hardware manufacturer, if they're looking to take their, you know, to have a physical presence in the gaming world in the future, and I might be wrong.

01:03:00.200 --> 01:03:10.460

Phil: I mean, I might be talking 10, 15 years out, but a VR headset may be the only physical thing that you really want for gaming, other than a controller, 15 years from now.

01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:11.720

Tom: And a screen of some sort.

01:03:11.720 --> 01:03:14.040

Phil: Yeah, a screen of some sort, which everyone already has anyway.

01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:28.800

Phil: So, you know, I'm envisioning that most TVs, you know, most TVs today, when you buy them, and I was looking at a OLED TV, I can't believe, I went to a major retailer in Australia, looking at OLED TVs yesterday.

01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:38.020

Phil: There was only two available, one from Sony, which was $4,400, and one from LG, which was $4,600.

01:03:38.980 --> 01:03:41.720

Phil: The salesman was pushing the Sony, which, that's fine.

01:03:41.720 --> 01:03:46.060

Phil: I mean, if I had to buy a TV, I'd probably go Sony over LG anyway.

01:03:46.620 --> 01:03:51.920

Phil: But I was perplexed as to why there was such a small range.

01:03:52.040 --> 01:03:55.420

Phil: Again, this was a massive retailer for OLED devices.

01:03:56.140 --> 01:04:04.280

Phil: But anyway, on every TV that was there, not just the expensive ones, Netflix is built in, Android is built in.

01:04:04.300 --> 01:04:08.000

Phil: So it's not even like you need a USB dongle for streaming these types of things.

01:04:08.660 --> 01:04:20.560

Phil: And as we've seen with music and now movies and television content, obviously digital distribution is something that is inevitable for gaming.

01:04:20.980 --> 01:04:30.120

Phil: So if you're a hardware manufacturer, you can sell screens, you can sell controllers, you can sell really great headsets and mics.

01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:37.600

Phil: And then for VR, you know, I think it's smart for Sony to keep in there and continue to develop.

01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:50.760

Phil: And then by doing that, it encourages all the other VR development as well, because you've got a major manufacturer putting their name behind it, not just some niche company.

01:04:52.460 --> 01:04:52.920

Tom: Indeed.

01:04:54.340 --> 01:04:59.260

Tom: And they will at this stage be the only competitor to Facebook, pretty much.

01:04:59.660 --> 01:05:00.560

Phil: Yeah, pretty much.

01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:04.940

Phil: And I don't think it's so much of a competition, really.

01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:12.480

Phil: I think all the players in VR at this stage are happy to have anyone actively promoting VR and continuing to develop for it.

01:05:13.700 --> 01:05:16.680

Phil: And certainly someone as mainstream as Sony helps that.

01:05:18.080 --> 01:05:18.880

Phil: Would I buy it?

01:05:19.080 --> 01:05:27.560

Phil: Probably not, because knowing, well, having looked at the last Sony VR set, it was overpriced and low spec.

01:05:30.080 --> 01:05:32.540

Phil: But, you know, maybe they can turn it around.

01:05:32.560 --> 01:05:35.060

Phil: I mean, obviously their console is a very powerful console.

01:05:35.180 --> 01:05:37.700

Phil: So, proved me wrong.

01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:45.200

Phil: But with Oculus, you know, I upgraded the PC, your prodding, so I could get a VR headset.

01:05:45.220 --> 01:05:47.720

Phil: I haven't done it for no good reason.

01:05:48.480 --> 01:06:02.400

Phil: And then I was thinking the other day, you know, as quickly as they release the Quest 2 after the Quest 1, surely with the success of the Quest 2, a Quest 3 must be coming around the corner and that would be the time to buy.

01:06:03.020 --> 01:06:05.320

Phil: So, have they now announced a Quest 3?

01:06:06.060 --> 01:06:09.360

Tom: Yes, they have, but I don't think there are any details on it yet.

01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:20.480

Phil: Okay, and you are still, we didn't touch on this in the last show, you're still sticking in there with your Quest 2, you're still enjoying it, you're playing games on a regular basis.

01:06:21.260 --> 01:06:23.620

Tom: On and off, I'm definitely enjoying it still though.

01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:35.100

Phil: The only reason I haven't bought it is because I feel it's like an indulgence and I didn't want my, you know, I'm always like, there's better things I could buy for my family, this, that and the other.

01:06:36.040 --> 01:06:38.660

Phil: Like a 65 inch OLED TV.

01:06:40.220 --> 01:06:42.240

Phil: But really, it's not a lot of money.

01:06:42.260 --> 01:06:44.580

Tom: Which coincidentally can also be used to play games.

01:06:44.840 --> 01:06:45.760

Phil: Yes, exactly.

01:06:46.340 --> 01:06:49.920

Phil: But it's not a lot of money really for the experience.

01:06:50.200 --> 01:06:55.940

Phil: I guess probably the thing that is holding me back is that I already have limited video game time.

01:06:56.220 --> 01:07:02.060

Phil: Though upgrading my PC has expanded that because it's easier for me to play my PC and have the family in the background.

01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:13.560

Phil: But just the putting on the helmet is like a bridge too far for me still because I'd be completely shutting out my family, I feel.

01:07:14.160 --> 01:07:19.680

Tom: Well, you can stream it to the television so that they can be part of the experience.

01:07:19.700 --> 01:07:20.460

Phil: Okay, yeah.

01:07:20.820 --> 01:07:26.380

Phil: But like I said, most of the games I'm going to be buying is porn related, so that doesn't really...

01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:27.860

Phil: I mean, that's the whole reason I'm getting it.

01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:33.780

Tom: Well, it depends entirely on your family whether that would work or not.

01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:34.860

Phil: Be suitable, yeah.

01:07:36.040 --> 01:07:36.680

Phil: And that's true.

01:07:36.700 --> 01:07:39.640

Phil: I mean, like, I found out that Mouse is on Steam.

01:07:40.300 --> 01:07:41.160

Phil: I thought that was a...

01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:48.580

Phil: I thought that was like an exclusive game, but I was looking last night for VR games and that Mouse game is actually on Steam.

01:07:48.600 --> 01:07:52.160

Phil: And I thought that was like a locked behind the Oculus wall.

01:07:52.220 --> 01:07:57.320

Phil: So that's certainly a game that I could stream to the TV and have the family enjoy.

01:07:57.340 --> 01:08:05.980

Phil: Okay, so jumping back into what we've been playing, we were talking about Super Hot earlier, the developer of...

01:08:06.060 --> 01:08:08.120

Phil: or the publisher, rather, of A Garden Between.

01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:15.960

Phil: But Super Hot, no surprise, also is famous for releasing their only game, which is Super Hot.

01:08:15.980 --> 01:08:17.280

Phil: Came out in 2016.

01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:26.800

Phil: So having been exactly five years since their anniversary, it came out February 26th, I think.

01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:36.000

Phil: They've kind of been promoting it, and now that I have the PC that I should have had, I went ahead and bought it.

01:08:36.020 --> 01:08:39.340

Tom: I think you would have been able to play Super Hot on your old PC.

01:08:39.360 --> 01:08:39.960

Phil: You think so?

01:08:39.980 --> 01:08:41.120

Tom: Yep, definitely.

01:08:41.140 --> 01:08:47.680

Phil: I mean, it's simple in its presentation, so very simply put, and I think it's worth saying because some people have missed on this game.

01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:49.260

Phil: It is a first-person shooter.

01:08:49.340 --> 01:08:58.180

Phil: It's set in a monochromatic world where the only things that have color are your polygonal enemies, known as Red Dudes, and these Red...

01:08:58.200 --> 01:09:00.880

Tom: I'd say it looks a bit like South Park, wouldn't you?

01:09:01.860 --> 01:09:02.860

Phil: No, no, it doesn't.

01:09:08.940 --> 01:09:13.560

Phil: So the Red Dudes are these polygonal guys that are made from essentially a glass-type product.

01:09:14.200 --> 01:09:16.580

Phil: And you shoot them, they blow up in a million pieces.

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:18.580

Phil: We'll get into the details of the game more later.

01:09:20.080 --> 01:09:24.380

Phil: But yeah, it's their fifth year anniversary, so I finally bought it.

01:09:25.100 --> 01:09:28.980

Phil: I got it yesterday, I think, for like 14 bucks or something like that on Steam.

01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:31.460

Phil: And I'm playing with an Xbox controller.

01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:37.720

Phil: And it was funny because I started playing it, and the game starts...

01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:48.220

Phil: This is not a spoiler, I don't think, but the game starts with a DOS type interface with a lot of ASCII type art and all the rest of it, where you're essentially at a directory.

01:09:48.860 --> 01:09:58.580

Phil: And I went through every single folder and every single file for about 20 minutes and then was like, oh, so is this the game or...

01:09:58.900 --> 01:10:03.140

Phil: And then finally I look at the very top of the screen and it's got like superhot.exe.

01:10:04.120 --> 01:10:07.020

Phil: So I played all of the demo games.

01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:15.900

Phil: I played every ASCII GIF type situation, every folder that is there to be explored before I got into the game.

01:10:17.180 --> 01:10:24.580

Phil: And the premise for the game is essentially that someone is chatting with you on an ASCII type chat session.

01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:26.440

Tom: On an instant messenger?

01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:27.740

Phil: Yeah, on an instant messenger.

01:10:28.180 --> 01:10:30.100

Phil: And it's pretty much like the old BBSs.

01:10:30.700 --> 01:10:32.220

Phil: And they've given you this file.

01:10:33.900 --> 01:10:45.420

Phil: Ostensibly for a game that I think in the end you'll find out that you've actually been killing people, that it's like a simulation where you're actually controlling a robot somewhere and you're doing these acts.

01:10:45.440 --> 01:10:46.840

Phil: That's just my speculation.

01:10:47.280 --> 01:10:51.380

Phil: You're like one of those drone operators that work in a basement in Las Vegas.

01:10:52.340 --> 01:10:57.620

Phil: And you're essentially telling yourself this is just a video game, whereas you're actually been performing murders.

01:10:58.480 --> 01:11:00.440

Phil: At least that's where I hope this is going.

01:11:01.580 --> 01:11:08.200

Phil: But then from this DOS ASCII type world, you get thrown into this modern day computer game type setting.

01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:13.620

Phil: And you can only shoot, you can only have one bullet in play at a time.

01:11:14.260 --> 01:11:17.220

Phil: And time only moves forward when you move.

01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:19.000

Phil: So you can move forward or backward.

01:11:19.180 --> 01:11:20.900

Phil: When you move backward, it doesn't reverse time.

01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:23.600

Phil: There's no reverse time mechanism in the game.

01:11:24.080 --> 01:11:26.840

Phil: Basically, as you move, these guys are coming towards you.

01:11:27.540 --> 01:11:32.860

Phil: And so you have time to swerve away from bullets coming towards you.

01:11:33.280 --> 01:11:35.160

Phil: You can only have one bullet in play at a time.

01:11:35.280 --> 01:11:37.000

Phil: It has melee components as well.

01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:40.720

Phil: And the game is quite lethal.

01:11:40.820 --> 01:11:44.320

Phil: If you get a shot or you get hit by someone, you die immediately.

01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:48.000

Phil: And then essentially press a button to restart the scenario.

01:11:51.200 --> 01:11:54.300

Phil: It's a puzzle-solving type game I would classify it as.

01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:56.860

Phil: It's a tactical game.

01:11:57.300 --> 01:12:05.540

Phil: I'd call it almost a turn-based strategy game, almost, and be pilloried for saying that.

01:12:06.340 --> 01:12:08.160

Phil: But essentially you have to think about what you're doing.

01:12:08.860 --> 01:12:15.440

Phil: It's like the old Rainbow Six type games, except you get to fail a lot and figure it out as you go.

01:12:15.460 --> 01:12:26.340

Phil: And then apparently, you know, from what everyone was saying, you know, then you can watch the replay and have it play out in real time and feel like you're John Wick.

01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:28.760

Phil: I haven't had much...

01:12:29.180 --> 01:12:34.480

Phil: like, I've uploaded replays, but they seem just to go to Super Hot's website.

01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:38.700

Phil: I don't really see any way to really actually play the replays themselves.

01:12:39.280 --> 01:12:41.760

Tom: It should play automatically at the end of the level.

01:12:41.780 --> 01:12:44.640

Phil: Well, it does, but it just speeds through it in first-person perspective.

01:12:44.660 --> 01:12:58.400

Phil: And I was thinking that they're going to have it in like a third-person perspective, so you could actually see how badass everything looked when it went down, and that there'd be some directorial view applied to it, so that it would look kind of cool like in a movie.

01:12:58.420 --> 01:13:03.560

Phil: But really, it's replaying it in real time from the first-person's perspective, unless I'm missing something.

01:13:03.820 --> 01:13:04.820

Tom: No, that's what it does.

01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:05.160

Phil: Yep.

01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:15.060

Phil: So, like usually with games like this, particularly with limited time, when I come to the first challenge, I'll go, okay, yep, I get it.

01:13:15.140 --> 01:13:16.440

Phil: I can talk about the game enough.

01:13:16.780 --> 01:13:17.760

Phil: I know what this game is.

01:13:17.780 --> 01:13:19.500

Phil: And when I have more time, I'll come back to it.

01:13:20.140 --> 01:13:27.520

Phil: And there was a couple of times as I was playing it in those two-hour periods where they introduced a new mechanic, I couldn't quite figure it out immediately.

01:13:28.620 --> 01:13:33.740

Phil: And I closed down the game and then would come back to it like three minutes later.

01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:36.440

Phil: I go, nah, you know, I should probably figure this out.

01:13:36.460 --> 01:13:37.560

Phil: Let me just try and figure it out.

01:13:37.580 --> 01:13:39.500

Phil: And not because we're doing the show today or anything.

01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:46.180

Phil: I was just like, it was compelling enough for me to go back and try and fail again until I succeeded.

01:13:46.200 --> 01:13:47.300

Phil: And I kept doing that.

01:13:47.700 --> 01:13:50.520

Phil: But there were times during the game where I was like, okay, yep, I get it.

01:13:51.760 --> 01:13:52.920

Phil: Not really my kind of game.

01:13:52.940 --> 01:13:54.740

Phil: I was expecting more of a first person shooter.

01:13:55.960 --> 01:14:05.440

Phil: But the game is compelling enough to get you to get, at least it got me to come back time and time and time again and figure out those levels.

01:14:05.580 --> 01:14:07.140

Phil: And it's fun.

01:14:07.160 --> 01:14:08.680

Phil: It's a fun game to noodle out.

01:14:10.120 --> 01:14:16.800

Tom: Yeah, because the feedback loop is so short, it really encourages you to keep going and going and going.

01:14:17.140 --> 01:14:18.080

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:26.940

Tom: And you're also constantly rewarded with each step that you figure out, with each new red man you've worked out how to kill.

01:14:28.480 --> 01:14:38.220

Phil: And coming up with different ways, like one of the biggest problems you have in a game is when you get stuck in a rut, like in this type of game.

01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:46.080

Phil: And you can do it in a campaign mode, in a first person shooter or any game really, where you're just going through it and you're constantly getting killed.

01:14:46.480 --> 01:14:50.120

Phil: And you have to remind yourself, okay, maybe this time go left instead of right.

01:14:50.340 --> 01:14:52.140

Phil: You know, don't get stuck.

01:14:52.400 --> 01:14:58.160

Phil: And then people say, oh, I was stuck in this game, I was stuck in this game, I turned it off, I came back the next day, I got it the first time.

01:14:58.640 --> 01:15:04.780

Phil: And that's because you get out of the rut and then come back and attack it at a different way, even if you're not conscious of it.

01:15:06.500 --> 01:15:08.740

Phil: And that's good life advice as well, by the way.

01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:13.180

Phil: But yeah, I really enjoy this game.

01:15:13.420 --> 01:15:16.640

Phil: I can see why it got all the kudos it did.

01:15:17.040 --> 01:15:20.160

Phil: I absolutely cannot believe it's five years.

01:15:20.180 --> 01:15:23.640

Phil: I would have thought it came out not last year, but probably the year before.

01:15:24.400 --> 01:15:36.740

Phil: And it does get crossed in my mind with the game Control by the Max Payne guys as well, for some reason.

01:15:36.760 --> 01:15:37.420

Phil: I don't know why.

01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:39.660

Phil: But yeah, I'm super hyped.

01:15:39.660 --> 01:15:44.580

Tom: Well, that's a brutalist aesthetic, and this is a minimalist aesthetic.

01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:59.180

Tom: And while they may share quite a few differences in terms of the sort of feeling they're trying to evoke, they're also pretty similar in their use of massive amounts of space, blank space.

01:15:59.300 --> 01:16:03.100

Phil: I've not seen a single video or picture of Control.

01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:14.600

Tom: Well, you may then be mixing the two together because the third game in the series is Super Hot Mind Control Elite.

01:16:15.980 --> 01:16:17.620

Tom: So it has Control in the title.

01:16:18.120 --> 01:16:18.620

Tom: Oh, okay.

01:16:18.660 --> 01:16:19.240

Phil: That could be it.

01:16:19.260 --> 01:16:27.500

Phil: And you know, it could be that they have similar cover art too because I do that a fair bit as well because I'm a visual learner kind of guy.

01:16:28.160 --> 01:16:30.840

Tom: Would you describe South Park as brutalist?

01:16:33.260 --> 01:16:37.700

Phil: I am happy to admit my ignorance and I don't know what the brutalist aesthetic is.

01:16:38.020 --> 01:16:38.780

Phil: And you know what?

01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:46.900

Phil: I bet our listeners are happy that I don't because I'm aware of brutalist architecture.

01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:47.900

Phil: Is it a similar type?

01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:49.980

Tom: That's what I'm referring to.

01:16:50.040 --> 01:16:50.720

Phil: Yeah, okay, yep.

01:16:50.740 --> 01:16:57.980

Phil: So kind of blocky, ugly, square jaw, concrete kind of structures.

01:16:58.540 --> 01:16:59.040

Tom: Correct.

01:16:59.040 --> 01:17:00.080

Phil: Which I'm not a fan of.

01:17:01.080 --> 01:17:03.580

Tom: I would describe South Park as brutalist.

01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:06.560

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah.

01:17:06.580 --> 01:17:07.780

Phil: I can go with that.

01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:10.080

Phil: A lot more colour in South Park though.

01:17:14.180 --> 01:17:19.380

Tom: But very browny, mixed colours.

01:17:19.500 --> 01:17:24.920

Phil: There's a Soviet kind of, there's an Eastern European, Soviet twist to South Park, I think.

01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:25.940

Phil: I mean, it's set in a snowy...

01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:31.740

Tom: Well, brutalism is more so, it's not really Soviet.

01:17:31.740 --> 01:17:41.940

Tom: It's a mix of all of the social-inspired architecture.

01:17:42.060 --> 01:17:43.380

Tom: It's across the world.

01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:49.980

Phil: It also strikes me as being Italian in some way, but that's because they all love their concrete so much.

01:17:51.140 --> 01:17:55.940

Tom: I think the epitome of it, especially for ugliness, is Great Britain.

01:17:56.840 --> 01:18:01.200

Phil: Okay, with their flats, with their big public service buildings.

01:18:01.360 --> 01:18:09.540

Tom: Yep, and they have some very impressive theatres and museums made in that style as well.

01:18:09.560 --> 01:18:11.940

Phil: So it's a very blocky kind of thing to me.

01:18:11.940 --> 01:18:13.560

Phil: Very concrete-y, very blocky.

01:18:15.300 --> 01:18:15.820

Tom: Exactly.

01:18:16.080 --> 01:18:18.840

Phil: Okay, so now your experience with Super Hot.

01:18:18.860 --> 01:18:22.760

Phil: I can't believe we haven't talked about this on the show before, but it was a notable game.

01:18:22.780 --> 01:18:25.200

Phil: We're both into shooters, we're both into creative type games.

01:18:26.580 --> 01:18:30.560

Phil: So how come we haven't talked about it before and what was your impressions?

01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:49.580

Tom: Well, my impressions I will just add a little bit here because I will save my most detailed impressions where I'll be getting into the other games as well for an upcoming episode with Gargan in which we'll be discussing both Super Hot and Doom Eternal.

01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:50.800

Phil: Oh, okay.

01:18:50.820 --> 01:18:51.420

Phil: I'm excited about that.

01:18:51.440 --> 01:18:52.700

Tom: I also need to get around to playing that.

01:18:52.720 --> 01:19:03.940

Tom: But I endorse everything you've said and I think the only thing I would add to your impressions is two things.

01:19:04.180 --> 01:19:08.960

Tom: One, the ASCII aesthetic at the beginning of the game is...

01:19:09.260 --> 01:19:21.120

Tom: and you haven't played enough for this to be apparent, so it's not something you've missed, but is really nicely integrated into how the story unfolds.

01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:38.900

Tom: Not so much the ASCII aspect of it, but the use of breaking the fourth wall and changes to the aesthetic as you're playing are really well done, and they make the atmosphere much more interesting than it otherwise would have been.

01:19:38.920 --> 01:20:01.680

Tom: And the other really enjoyable thing about the game, which is again exactly like Rainbow Six, which is a great comparison, is it's not merely puzzle-solving strategy, but it combines that with your reflexes in the context of a first-person shooter, as well as your skill at moving around in the environment.

01:20:02.060 --> 01:20:13.380

Tom: And it becomes again like Rainbow Six, a game where you can play the same scenario again and again and again, once you've figured out how to kill everyone there.

01:20:13.580 --> 01:20:21.860

Tom: So that's not an issue, and you're just working out how to go through it as fast as possible, and in the most interesting manner.

01:20:21.900 --> 01:20:37.440

Tom: So it really is one of the best first-person shooters of its era, and up there with the likes of the greatest in the genre, for example, Rainbow Six.

01:20:39.740 --> 01:20:42.840

Phil: Would you describe it as a first-person shooter though, really?

01:20:43.460 --> 01:20:44.120

Tom: Absolutely.

01:20:44.740 --> 01:20:48.660

Tom: If Rainbow Six is a first-person shooter, this is a first-person shooter.

01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:51.080

Phil: I don't know that Rainbow Six is a first-person shooter.

01:20:53.240 --> 01:20:54.460

Tom: It is a first-person shooter.

01:20:56.240 --> 01:21:05.420

Tom: I think people, the first-person shooter genre, as opposed to many genres, is one that people like to limit.

01:21:05.440 --> 01:21:13.620

Tom: And I used to be of that opinion, but I think it's actually more interesting if you consider Metroid Prime to be a first-person shooter.

01:21:15.040 --> 01:21:21.220

Phil: I consider Metroid Prime to be a walking simulator, but I'm not a very good one at that.

01:21:21.580 --> 01:21:26.840

Tom: Okay, well, that's the end of The Game Under Podcast.

01:21:26.860 --> 01:21:28.000

Tom: It was fun while it lasted.

01:21:28.800 --> 01:21:31.060

Phil: I finally found out how to end the show.

01:21:31.080 --> 01:21:40.620

Phil: Yeah, so, and to be fair, I've never played the Metroid Prime trilogy.

01:21:40.620 --> 01:21:41.280

Phil: I own them.

01:21:41.300 --> 01:21:42.360

Phil: I haven't played them.

01:21:42.380 --> 01:21:58.420

Phil: So with Super Hot, the one thing I really respected about it was its ability to communicate the lethality of firearms and also the difficulty of operating a firearm.

01:21:59.040 --> 01:22:11.140

Phil: Because limiting you to having a single shot in play made you really respect your ammunition and your weapon and your decision to shoot.

01:22:12.540 --> 01:22:25.180

Phil: So, like in most video games, it's like when you're playing arcade coin op conversions where you're not actually having to put in 25 cents or 20 cents to continue.

01:22:25.200 --> 01:22:26.420

Phil: You've got endless continues.

01:22:26.440 --> 01:22:31.680

Phil: You can just pull the trigger constantly and bullets will come out.

01:22:32.020 --> 01:22:35.720

Phil: But when you're shooting in this game, it's a deliberate act.

01:22:38.120 --> 01:22:41.700

Phil: And you really stop and consider where I'm going to shoot.

01:22:42.120 --> 01:22:44.840

Phil: The other thing I like about it is that...

01:22:45.040 --> 01:22:46.280

Tom: I would add to that.

01:22:46.300 --> 01:23:09.600

Tom: I would endorse what you said, but in fact take it in an entirely different direction in that while simultaneously it does all that, when you are either when you're attending to do things quickly or even when you're just trying to figure things out, the other thing it does really well and in stark contrast to any...

01:23:11.580 --> 01:23:49.140

Tom: arguably any other first person shooter, if you're not playing it competitively, is the conflict and the violence in it, the way it plays out is through totally automatic interactions in that when you are actually playing well or even when you're learning the thing, while you are thinking about what you're meant to be doing, how you actually proceed through it is a purely automatic response based on what you have learnt up to that point in the game.

01:23:50.120 --> 01:24:05.100

Phil: And to me that captures a primal survival instinct as well, because when these guys are coming at you, and it's funny that they're not coming at you until you actually act, you actually move forward.

01:24:05.260 --> 01:24:07.920

Tom: I think technically time progresses very slowly.

01:24:07.940 --> 01:24:12.540

Phil: Yeah, and I learnt that by leaving it on the screen for a while while I did something else.

01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:20.800

Phil: But you get that home invasion type feel to it, like these guys are coming to kill me, I've got to do something.

01:24:21.740 --> 01:24:36.900

Phil: It's not like a passive, oh they're on the other side, we're in a war, yeah I should probably shoot the guy, you know, it is much more urgent and present of a danger that you feel in this game.

01:24:38.600 --> 01:24:52.000

Phil: Because these guys mean business, and you've read interviews with developers that say yeah, we developed the AI and the AI was too good, which is what they say commonly, and we had to tune it down.

01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.220

Tom: Which I think is nonsense.

01:24:58.060 --> 01:25:09.760

Tom: I mean, what they mean by that is in the sense of the AI being good due to unrealistic things unrelated to their behaviour.

01:25:10.080 --> 01:25:11.440

Phil: Yeah, I agree also.

01:25:11.820 --> 01:25:28.360

Phil: But I think with this game too, the other thing that it respects and values, that I haven't seen in any other games, though I'm sure this comes up in sniper games, and I've seen it in sniper games as well, but not to this extent, is aiming and leading on a target.

01:25:30.060 --> 01:25:39.880

Phil: When I was a kid, my grandfather, I was just playing around with a toy gun or a stick or something in the backyard, pretending to shoot some ducks that were flying through the air.

01:25:40.260 --> 01:25:44.280

Phil: He's like, no, you don't point at the duck, you've got to point in front of the duck.

01:25:44.700 --> 01:25:54.060

Phil: If you're going to shoot a bird in flight, you've got to account for the time the bullet's going to go and wind and anticipate where that bullet's going to go.

01:25:54.380 --> 01:26:02.060

Phil: While this has been a part of sniper games, certainly you learn quickly in this game that you can't shoot at a target where it is currently.

01:26:02.080 --> 01:26:05.020

Phil: You've got to be shooting at a target where it's going to be.

01:26:05.740 --> 01:26:13.440

Phil: Similarly, when I was a younger person, I'd go, oh, why'd those cops have to shoot the guy to kill him?

01:26:13.640 --> 01:26:15.420

Phil: Couldn't they have just shot him in the leg?

01:26:15.440 --> 01:26:26.540

Phil: Then I heard an interview with a cop and he's like, no, we're trying to shoot to stop, which means we're shooting for mass, which means you're shooting for the chest.

01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:35.840

Phil: You're not shooting, because if you shoot at the leg, you're going to probably miss and it's probably not going to stop the guy because of adrenaline.

01:26:35.860 --> 01:26:38.880

Phil: He's going to keep coming at you with the knife or the gun or whatever else.

01:26:38.900 --> 01:26:40.480

Phil: Basically, you've got to shoot to stop.

01:26:41.160 --> 01:26:51.760

Phil: That's one of the things that hasn't been emphasized to me in many video games, but this one emphasized as well that if I'm shooting at a moving target, I better know where he's going to be by the time the bullet gets to him.

01:26:52.320 --> 01:26:57.880

Phil: And I also better shoot for mass because there's no finesse there.

01:26:57.900 --> 01:27:01.900

Phil: So you're going to shoot for the biggest part of your opponent's body.

01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:07.760

Tom: And that's also a part of the militarized training of police as well.

01:27:07.780 --> 01:27:08.120

Phil: Yeah.

01:27:08.160 --> 01:27:08.620

Phil: Well, yeah.

01:27:09.320 --> 01:27:19.980

Phil: And so, yeah, so for me, I thought the game took the violent act of shooting someone, or at least it imparted it in a very serious manner.

01:27:20.580 --> 01:27:23.640

Phil: And so when I was playing it, I was taking it very seriously.

01:27:23.660 --> 01:27:34.880

Phil: And even though these guys are just red dudes made out of these rough, polygonal glass-like matter, you know, yeah.

01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:37.640

Phil: And you can restart continually.

01:27:39.380 --> 01:27:44.640

Phil: So it was amazing to me that they actually added some gravity to what you're actually doing.

01:27:46.620 --> 01:27:59.720

Phil: So part of the five-year anniversary is if you buy this game, it basically loads you out at the start in a menu where you can play the original Super Hot, and then next to it they've got the sequel, and then next to that they've got the VR experience.

01:28:01.500 --> 01:28:05.140

Phil: I know we're running out of time here, so you've played the VR experience?

01:28:05.900 --> 01:28:06.580

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:28:06.600 --> 01:28:08.760

Phil: We talked about that a couple of shows ago.

01:28:09.980 --> 01:28:11.460

Phil: But have you played the sequel?

01:28:12.280 --> 01:28:12.960

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:28:13.540 --> 01:28:27.120

Phil: And as I recall, the sequel, in most camps, people lapped it up, and it was like, great, you know, a sequel is basically going to be Super Hot with more levels, but didn't they screw it up by doing like procedurally generated levels or some nonsense?

01:28:27.240 --> 01:28:27.920

Tom: Yes, they did.

01:28:28.340 --> 01:28:28.800

Phil: They did?

01:28:28.820 --> 01:28:29.600

Phil: Okay.

01:28:30.360 --> 01:28:31.140

Phil: And how did that go?

01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:33.660

Tom: That's not the only way they screwed it up.

01:28:34.100 --> 01:28:59.800

Tom: The sequel is horrendous in pretty much every way, and the addition to it could have been interesting with more powers and so forth, due to the way in which you are given those powers, rather, and the procedural generation of the levels, even that, which could have been a great addition to the game, is horrendous, sadly.

01:28:59.980 --> 01:29:07.900

Phil: Now, are they procedurally generated on the fly, or did they just use procedural generation to create the worlds, a la No Man's Sky or whatever?

01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:10.340

Tom: They're procedurally generated each time.

01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:12.740

Phil: Ooh, that's terrible.

01:29:13.500 --> 01:29:15.560

Phil: I mean, one of the great things about the...

01:29:15.680 --> 01:29:23.640

Tom: And not only that, given these generic levels in the game, it's like 10 times the length of the original.

01:29:24.460 --> 01:29:26.580

Phil: I mean, how can they do that?

01:29:26.600 --> 01:29:32.560

Phil: Because the whole charm of the game I'm currently playing are these super crafted levels.

01:29:33.220 --> 01:29:33.480

Tom: Yep.

01:29:33.940 --> 01:29:34.980

Phil: And how did that...

01:29:35.940 --> 01:29:36.340

Tom: How?

01:29:36.360 --> 01:29:36.780

Phil: Why?

01:29:37.900 --> 01:29:38.880

Phil: They had all this money.

01:29:38.900 --> 01:29:39.880

Phil: They made lots of money.

01:29:39.900 --> 01:29:41.580

Phil: And then they shut out...

01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:44.160

Tom: Maybe it's CD Projekt Red all over again.

01:29:44.180 --> 01:29:45.480

Phil: It could be hubris.

01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:49.820

Phil: I mean, having played Game Dev Story, I know what that's like.

01:29:49.840 --> 01:29:55.120

Phil: I mean, when I released Teen Tales Cart, I was on top of the world.

01:29:55.380 --> 01:29:59.420

Phil: But, yeah, we spent a lot of time on Polish.

01:29:59.460 --> 01:30:01.940

Phil: But, you know, we didn't make it very approachable.

01:30:02.820 --> 01:30:04.360

Phil: Anyway, we advertised the hell out of it.

01:30:04.380 --> 01:30:08.760

Phil: And it's still sold, which I'm sure is what happened with Super Hot 2 or whatever it's called.

01:30:08.780 --> 01:30:09.420

Phil: What is it called?

01:30:10.220 --> 01:30:11.460

Tom: Mind Control Delete.

01:30:11.460 --> 01:30:12.540

Phil: Mind Control Delete.

01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:13.080

Phil: Yeah.

01:30:13.100 --> 01:30:13.560

Phil: Horrible.

01:30:14.220 --> 01:30:15.180

Phil: Old Control Delete.

01:30:15.200 --> 01:30:15.800

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:30:16.260 --> 01:30:16.760

Phil: Not bad.

01:30:17.420 --> 01:30:19.840

Phil: So procedurally generated levels, how does that even work?

01:30:21.280 --> 01:30:28.900

Phil: So when you fail a level and you go and restart it immediately, like I do in Super Hot, is it the same level or does it change again?

01:30:30.440 --> 01:30:34.060

Tom: In that case, it's the same level when you die and restart.

01:30:34.080 --> 01:30:37.460

Tom: But worse than that, there aren't really levels in that sense.

01:30:37.520 --> 01:30:45.980

Tom: Each level is actually a series of several different levels with a limited number of hearts.

01:30:46.000 --> 01:31:01.340

Tom: So you can die three times across, say, ten levels, at the end of which, if you die, then you start again and you can continue through the same ten procedurally generated levels.

01:31:01.920 --> 01:31:06.460

Tom: Or if you quit and come back later, then it will be ten different procedurally generated levels.

01:31:07.880 --> 01:31:08.640

Phil: Sounds terrible.

01:31:09.760 --> 01:31:10.120

Tom: It is.

01:31:11.500 --> 01:31:14.500

Phil: And like, did you go into this thinking just like I was thinking?

01:31:14.520 --> 01:31:15.240

Phil: Oh, this is great.

01:31:15.260 --> 01:31:16.100

Phil: I love Super Hot.

01:31:16.340 --> 01:31:18.360

Phil: This is just going to be like a level pack.

01:31:19.800 --> 01:31:20.300

Tom: Pretty much.

01:31:22.200 --> 01:31:26.880

Phil: That's like the most bummer thing I've heard in the last three hours.

01:31:28.320 --> 01:31:30.500

Phil: So, is that it for Super Hot?

01:31:31.320 --> 01:31:32.460

Tom: It is, indeed.

01:31:32.480 --> 01:31:40.960

Phil: Yeah, I think probably when you bring up Super Hot, Mind Control, Alt, Delete, that's probably the time to stop talking about Super Hot.

01:31:41.700 --> 01:31:45.180

Tom: Very, very wise statement there, Phil.

01:31:45.640 --> 01:31:46.140

Phil: Thank you.

01:31:46.740 --> 01:31:50.980

Phil: Just really quick, in other news, this was a big gaming news week.

01:31:51.200 --> 01:31:53.200

Phil: There haven't been many of them in the last six months.

01:31:53.740 --> 01:31:57.220

Phil: Nintendo had a Nintendo Direct for the first time in over a year.

01:31:57.600 --> 01:31:59.820

Phil: They announced major stories.

01:32:00.140 --> 01:32:04.200

Phil: They're bringing out Skyward Sword HD to the Switch.

01:32:05.400 --> 01:32:09.420

Phil: Skyward Sword is probably one of the worst Zelda games, reportedly.

01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:17.120

Phil: It's the only Zelda game I didn't buy or haven't bought because of how horrible it apparently was.

01:32:17.120 --> 01:32:19.820

Phil: But it's coming out on the Switch, so of course now I'm going to have to buy it.

01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:22.820

Phil: They announced that Fall Guys was coming to Switch.

01:32:23.180 --> 01:32:24.220

Phil: Have you played Fall Guys?

01:32:25.220 --> 01:32:25.860

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:32:25.980 --> 01:32:30.040

Phil: It's kind of like It's a Knockout, the video game, multiplayer online.

01:32:30.820 --> 01:32:32.700

Phil: Were you around for It's a Knockout?

01:32:32.720 --> 01:32:43.100

Phil: It was kind of an Australian TV show like Wipeout where a bunch of people compete to do silly things athletically.

01:32:43.720 --> 01:32:45.660

Tom: The name certainly sounds familiar.

01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:46.300

Phil: Yep.

01:32:46.320 --> 01:32:50.060

Phil: Mario Golf is getting a sequel on the Switch called Mario Golf Super Rush.

01:32:51.480 --> 01:32:59.680

Phil: And it's by Camelot, I think, which is the people that originally made Hotshot Golf before Clap Hands.

01:33:00.360 --> 01:33:03.100

Phil: And Splatoon 3 got announced, so that's interesting.

01:33:05.700 --> 01:33:16.780

Phil: But the big news was that Stubbs the Zombie, which was an Xbox game made by one of the Halo creatives, Alex Seropian, is coming to Switch.

01:33:16.860 --> 01:33:18.200

Phil: It's not available anywhere else.

01:33:18.220 --> 01:33:19.280

Phil: You can't get it on Steam.

01:33:19.460 --> 01:33:23.640

Phil: I believe mostly because it had a soundtrack with a lot of licensed music.

01:33:24.100 --> 01:33:25.540

Phil: And I do have the soundtrack for that.

01:33:25.780 --> 01:33:28.360

Phil: I think that was a pre-order bonus when I bought it.

01:33:29.280 --> 01:33:31.240

Phil: It was where I was introduced to the Dandy Warhols.

01:33:31.700 --> 01:33:32.700

Phil: Not that that's notable.

01:33:33.960 --> 01:33:45.840

Phil: But yeah, it's a fun game that came around before the whole zombie pastiche overwhelmed video games for several years.

01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:46.600

Phil: I'm serious.

01:33:46.780 --> 01:33:51.280

Phil: I think it was like one of the first zombie games in the modern era.

01:33:51.580 --> 01:33:57.600

Phil: And it is, the trivia behind it is it uses the Halo engine.

01:33:57.720 --> 01:34:00.580

Phil: It's the only non-Halo game to use the Halo engine.

01:34:01.560 --> 01:34:02.640

Phil: Yeah, it's a fun game.

01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:05.480

Phil: And I don't think it's worth playing.

01:34:06.240 --> 01:34:09.980

Phil: But it was incredible that they announced that at the Nintendo Direct.

01:34:10.640 --> 01:34:17.200

Phil: And certainly the most notable thing to me other than the release of Splatoon 3, given how much Splatoon 2 have been playing recently.

01:34:18.560 --> 01:34:20.000

Tom: Here's a question for you.

01:34:20.020 --> 01:34:33.460

Tom: Would you say that the fascination with zombie apocalypses was probably the first big influence on pop culture that games had?

01:34:33.480 --> 01:34:37.940

Phil: Hmm, you mean besides Pac-Man fever?

01:34:38.680 --> 01:34:39.040

Tom: Yes.

01:34:41.740 --> 01:34:47.200

Tom: That was more of a influence on the health of people than pop culture.

01:34:47.620 --> 01:34:54.600

Phil: No, I don't think that Stubbs the Zombie or I don't think the zombie culture came.

01:34:54.620 --> 01:34:55.260

Phil: Possibly.

01:34:55.280 --> 01:35:01.580

Phil: The Walking Dead was a stand-alone property that probably propelled zombies into normal people's lives.

01:35:03.100 --> 01:35:06.380

Phil: So no, I'm not going to give video games credit for the zombie culture.

01:35:06.400 --> 01:35:10.480

Phil: I think video games have had an influence on culture in other ways.

01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:12.320

Phil: It's interesting to go to more.

01:35:12.340 --> 01:35:14.900

Tom: You're definitely giving The Walking Dead way too much credit.

01:35:15.860 --> 01:35:18.100

Phil: The TV show?

01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:19.140

Tom: No, the comic.

01:35:19.660 --> 01:35:21.280

Phil: The comic that led to the TV show.

01:35:21.800 --> 01:35:24.260

Phil: Yeah, well, I give the TV show all the credit.

01:35:24.980 --> 01:35:27.160

Tom: I would say you're also giving that too much credit.

01:35:27.740 --> 01:35:38.500

Tom: My argument is because zombies have been a fascination of the psyche since the Victorian era, essentially.

01:35:39.340 --> 01:35:55.260

Tom: But being a prevailing view of understanding the end times isn't really the case until video games enter mass media.

01:35:55.940 --> 01:36:00.200

Tom: And there's no greater level of...

01:36:00.220 --> 01:36:09.060

Tom: There certainly is a much greater emphasis on zombies compared to other media.

01:36:10.280 --> 01:36:13.580

Tom: So I think there is still an argument there for that being the case.

01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:15.480

Phil: Yeah, look, this came out in 2005.

01:36:16.080 --> 01:36:21.480

Phil: It really has that 1950s horror movie feel to it.

01:36:21.720 --> 01:36:23.200

Phil: And that's the time in which it set.

01:36:23.220 --> 01:36:24.220

Phil: And I take back what I said.

01:36:24.260 --> 01:36:27.140

Phil: It is worth playing because it had a tremendous sense of humor.

01:36:27.700 --> 01:36:28.560

Phil: And it was fun.

01:36:29.020 --> 01:36:33.500

Phil: And it's worth to seeing what another game made with the Halo engine can do.

01:36:33.900 --> 01:36:41.120

Phil: And certainly, even though Alex Seropian had left a bungee at that time, it was one of the massive selling points.

01:36:41.120 --> 01:36:45.540

Phil: And they let him put that on the front of the box that I'm looking at right now.

01:36:46.800 --> 01:36:50.540

Phil: It is also going to be available on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

01:36:52.140 --> 01:36:55.080

Phil: So it's something to look forward to.

01:36:55.100 --> 01:37:00.160

Phil: But this zombie game, I think, was probably one of the...

01:37:00.680 --> 01:37:06.280

Phil: You had Zombies Ate My Neighbor back on the Genesis and Super Nintendo.

01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:09.220

Phil: But this really early predates it.

01:37:09.760 --> 01:37:10.360

Phil: It's fun.

01:37:10.380 --> 01:37:11.620

Phil: It's got a fun soundtrack.

01:37:13.460 --> 01:37:14.540

Phil: And a good engine.

01:37:14.660 --> 01:37:16.140

Phil: I mean, the Halo engine is great.

01:37:16.220 --> 01:37:18.140

Phil: There's nothing wrong with it.

01:37:18.160 --> 01:37:19.600

Phil: Certainly from back in the time.

01:37:19.660 --> 01:37:24.060

Phil: So yeah, Stubbs the Zombie Rebel Without a Pulse is going to be coming to Switch.

01:37:24.080 --> 01:37:32.000

Phil: And I know that I'm going to be picking it up because everyone knows my troubles with having an operating original Xbox.

01:37:32.340 --> 01:37:34.100

Phil: So you've never played it, though?

01:37:34.820 --> 01:37:35.460

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:40.920

Tom: And I have to point out that there are two notable things about Stubbs the Zombie.

01:37:40.940 --> 01:37:43.560

Tom: You mentioned one of them, which is the soundtrack.

01:37:44.260 --> 01:37:54.660

Tom: The other is that it received controversy for its cannibalistic content, apparently, according to Wikipedia.

01:37:54.700 --> 01:37:59.260

Phil: I remember when you chomped into people's heads, it sounded like you were chomping into an apple.

01:37:59.280 --> 01:38:00.800

Phil: And it was absolutely...

01:38:00.940 --> 01:38:01.560

Tom: Delicious?

01:38:01.580 --> 01:38:02.800

Phil: It was absolutely hilarious.

01:38:03.760 --> 01:38:05.000

Phil: It is a hilarious game.

01:38:05.040 --> 01:38:06.140

Phil: It's really well made.

01:38:06.160 --> 01:38:09.740

Phil: And I don't know what Alex Seropian went on to do.

01:38:10.200 --> 01:38:17.320

Phil: Wide Load Games, I think, made a political satire game about a chimp who was running for president.

01:38:17.340 --> 01:38:20.340

Phil: That was a joke relating to George Bush II.

01:38:21.420 --> 01:38:25.580

Phil: But other than that, I don't know that Wide Load did much after that.

01:38:25.600 --> 01:38:30.140

Tom: I asked you on air a while ago why it was.

01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:39.240

Tom: America has a desire for their presidents to be mentally impaired in one capacity or another.

01:38:40.020 --> 01:38:44.720

Tom: And I think your answer was that people in America who vote are old.

01:38:45.320 --> 01:38:50.460

Phil: No, I think my answer would be you have to be crazy to run for public office on that level.

01:38:51.300 --> 01:39:08.760

Phil: And so it's a given that if you're voting, if someone wakes up in the morning and says, I am the best qualified person to run the United States of America, they have to be mentally unstable, you know.

01:39:09.160 --> 01:39:11.360

Tom: So I think it's an aesthetic choice, though.

01:39:11.640 --> 01:39:12.200

Phil: What's that?

01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:14.760

Tom: Their persona.

01:39:15.560 --> 01:39:29.560

Tom: So by definition, they may be mentally unstable, whether they present themselves as being mentally incompetent or not, I think is a question of what persona they're trying to advertise to the public.

01:39:30.900 --> 01:39:32.340

Phil: Oh, I don't think that's true at all.

01:39:32.380 --> 01:39:36.560

Phil: I think people really believe in their presidents, be it Obama, Trump.

01:39:38.020 --> 01:39:40.660

Tom: Well, Obama is one who did not project that.

01:39:41.240 --> 01:39:41.740

Phil: Oh, really?

01:39:42.460 --> 01:39:44.840

Tom: He did not project himself as an idiot.

01:39:44.860 --> 01:39:45.440

Phil: No, no.

01:39:45.840 --> 01:39:56.720

Tom: He had to tone down the complexity of his rhetoric after becoming president, but his persona was still one of a highly competent individual.

01:39:57.720 --> 01:39:58.040

Phil: Yeah.

01:39:58.720 --> 01:40:04.240

Tom: And I would argue that his legacy has been...

01:40:04.260 --> 01:40:06.120

Tom: Sorry, not his legacy.

01:40:06.480 --> 01:40:33.980

Tom: One could argue that he has been less effective as a president as a result of that, because one advantage of presenting yourself as an idiot is that your opponents believe you're an idiot, whereas no one believed that the insane things that he was going to do in his communist, Muslim takeover of America are being done by an incompetent, bumbling fool.

01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:34.720

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

01:40:35.640 --> 01:40:36.620

Phil: Okay, well, since...

01:40:36.680 --> 01:40:41.420

Tom: So I think that was a rhetorical misstep on his part.

01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:48.260

Phil: I think since we've already roamed this far off topic, we can close the official Game Under Podcast.

01:40:48.820 --> 01:40:51.640

Phil: I've been your co-host, and my name is Phil Fogg.

01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:52.700

Phil: And his name is...

01:40:53.260 --> 01:40:54.100

Tom: I am Tom Towers.

01:40:54.120 --> 01:40:55.820

Phil: Goodbye, Copy That Floppy.

01:40:56.220 --> 01:40:57.760

Tom: This would be how it works.

01:40:58.080 --> 01:41:02.380

Tom: So it's kind of like Final Fantasy VIII or Legion of the Groon.

01:41:02.800 --> 01:41:04.180

Tom: Yes, well, I was going to say...

01:41:05.120 --> 01:41:06.100

Tom: Legion of the Groon.

01:41:06.140 --> 01:41:08.020

Tom: Both on PC and PC.

01:41:08.260 --> 01:41:11.200

Tom: You're effectively a modern doctor.

01:41:13.420 --> 01:41:14.200

Tom: And also...

01:41:14.960 --> 01:41:16.720

Phil: Uh, yes, you're quite right, I'm sorry.

01:41:18.500 --> 01:41:20.580

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

01:41:21.200 --> 01:41:22.320

Tom: That's a rare glitch.

01:41:22.420 --> 01:41:24.080

Tom: I've probably had it a couple of times.

01:41:24.320 --> 01:41:26.420

Tom: Repetition and lack of ideas.

01:41:26.700 --> 01:41:27.220

Phil: I'm sorry.

01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:32.700

Tom: I think that's also a question of literacy, so to speak.

01:41:38.440 --> 01:41:41.060

Phil: And then continue with some off-topic stuff.

01:41:41.080 --> 01:41:44.460

Phil: Though you promised me that this is going to be relevant to video games.

01:41:44.480 --> 01:41:46.760

Phil: So do we want to get into Beverly D'Angelo's book?

01:41:48.380 --> 01:41:49.520

Tom: Yes, well, we do.

01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:53.200

Tom: It is very relevant to video games because one of the...

01:41:53.220 --> 01:41:55.100

Phil: And we should say it's not Beverly D'Angelo.

01:41:55.120 --> 01:42:00.500

Phil: Beverly D'Angelo, I thought when I wrote that was...

01:42:01.500 --> 01:42:07.320

Phil: I was thinking of Beverly Crusher, Wesley Crusher's mom, the doctor off Star Trek, The Next Generation.

01:42:08.780 --> 01:42:10.380

Phil: Are you familiar with this?

01:42:11.020 --> 01:42:11.240

Tom: No.

01:42:13.400 --> 01:42:16.100

Phil: Everyone else listening to this will be because they're all enormous geeks.

01:42:16.840 --> 01:42:25.160

Phil: But Beverly D'Angelo is actually the actress that played Chevy Chase's wife in the National Lampoon holiday movies.

01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:27.700

Phil: It's important to know.

01:42:27.720 --> 01:42:28.360

Tom: I've heard of her.

01:42:28.500 --> 01:42:29.560

Phil: Yeah, Beverly D'Angelo.

01:42:29.580 --> 01:42:33.480

Phil: So, the Pamela D'Angelo, is that who wrote Right Fragility?

01:42:33.580 --> 01:42:35.840

Tom: I think it's Right Fragility.

01:42:36.200 --> 01:42:37.760

Tom: I think it's Robin D'Angelo.

01:42:37.780 --> 01:42:38.420

Phil: Robin, okay.

01:42:39.200 --> 01:42:39.560

Tom: Yes.

01:42:40.360 --> 01:42:51.760

Tom: Yeah, well, due to video games being easily the most bourgeois art medium outside of art collection.

01:42:52.440 --> 01:42:53.780

Phil: Let me just say something about that.

01:42:54.100 --> 01:42:55.220

Phil: Yep.

01:42:55.240 --> 01:42:58.740

Phil: I buy The Weekend Australian.

01:42:59.060 --> 01:43:00.940

Phil: And people around me go, why do you do it?

01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:07.560

Phil: Because every time you say, I want to read it, and then you buy it, and then you just, you know, complain about it the whole time.

01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:09.700

Phil: Which I guess is why I do it.

01:43:11.220 --> 01:43:16.380

Phil: But you go into the arts section, or the pop culture section, would be the better way of saying it.

01:43:17.040 --> 01:43:18.880

Phil: There's no mention of video games in there at all.

01:43:18.900 --> 01:43:22.220

Phil: They'll talk about CDs that are coming out, or whatever they are.

01:43:22.400 --> 01:43:24.040

Phil: They'll talk about albums that are coming out.

01:43:24.060 --> 01:43:24.940

Phil: They'll talk about movies.

01:43:24.960 --> 01:43:26.300

Phil: They'll talk about books.

01:43:26.320 --> 01:43:27.320

Phil: They'll talk about theater.

01:43:27.340 --> 01:43:28.640

Phil: They'll talk about TV shows.

01:43:28.660 --> 01:43:30.020

Phil: They'll talk about what's on Netflix.

01:43:30.480 --> 01:43:35.220

Phil: There's not a single thing in the whole 40 pages about what's happening in video games.

01:43:35.780 --> 01:43:42.000

Tom: See, now this is where your answer to my question about the persona of American presidents would apply.

01:43:44.080 --> 01:43:44.540

Phil: How so?

01:43:45.180 --> 01:43:48.520

Tom: I think that only old people buy newspapers today.

01:43:49.200 --> 01:43:50.440

Tom: Or they're meant to anyway.

01:43:52.760 --> 01:43:53.420

Phil: But isn't it...

01:43:55.100 --> 01:43:55.380

Tom: Isn't...

01:43:55.880 --> 01:44:06.580

Phil: I mean, I was researching for today's show, and I was encouraged to find that one of the commercial networks here in Australia, Nine News, actually had a video game coverage.

01:44:08.060 --> 01:44:12.340

Phil: Not to the stupid extent that the enthusiast press has, and that's another topic.

01:44:13.000 --> 01:44:15.280

Phil: But they just had regular video game coverage.

01:44:15.300 --> 01:44:18.760

Phil: Hey, this is what happened at Nintendo Direct, or this is what's happening with PlayStation VR.

01:44:19.660 --> 01:44:20.600

Phil: And that was good.

01:44:20.620 --> 01:44:24.760

Phil: Obviously, there's someone there who's like, hey, this is news that's relevant to our audience.

01:44:26.080 --> 01:44:30.600

Phil: But I guess it underscores your point that the only people buying newspapers are old.

01:44:30.940 --> 01:44:46.200

Phil: But I think if you're going to be doing, if you've got a magazine that covers popular culture and you're not covering video games, that is some sort of snob, elitism or denial or ignorance on a level that I can't even comprehend.

01:44:46.220 --> 01:44:49.940

Tom: Well, that would describe the Australian quite well.

01:44:50.100 --> 01:44:50.420

Phil: Yeah.

01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:53.240

Phil: That's true.

01:44:53.400 --> 01:44:53.960

Phil: That's true.

01:44:54.440 --> 01:44:59.260

Phil: OK, so you're saying that games are the most bourgeois medium.

01:44:59.740 --> 01:45:06.640

Phil: So for our English as a second language listeners, bourgeois is basically like the old word for yuppie, isn't it?

01:45:07.820 --> 01:45:09.280

Tom: In a sense, yes.

01:45:09.520 --> 01:45:10.840

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:45:11.180 --> 01:45:32.860

Tom: But with more economic connotations, which I think is relevant to the point here, because that would be why it is the most bourgeois medium outside of art collection, due to it requiring the greatest time and money commitment compared to the other mediums.

01:45:32.880 --> 01:45:49.200

Phil: And the bourgeoisie in French history are the class that is below the elites, but they've got enough money to muck around and believe they should be joining the country clubs and taking on art because it's what rich people do, it's what the elites do.

01:45:49.220 --> 01:45:49.500

Tom: Exactly.

01:45:50.140 --> 01:46:00.660

Phil: Yeah, so they're kind of, not upper middle Bogan, but typical elites, like people who have got a...

01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:06.500

Tom: Or rather they're completely unelite, but believe they're on the cusp of becoming an elite.

01:46:06.620 --> 01:46:07.240

Phil: Exactly right.

01:46:07.260 --> 01:46:10.000

Tom: And that they are already interacting with the elites.

01:46:10.020 --> 01:46:15.380

Phil: And it's a contagion that is on all political spectrums, both left and right.

01:46:16.180 --> 01:46:25.300

Phil: Though I'd say probably more on the left these days because a university degree and education is a part of the whole bourgeois thing.

01:46:25.620 --> 01:46:29.580

Phil: And if you go to uni, you typically end up to be on the left side of the spectrum.

01:46:30.660 --> 01:46:32.040

Tom: I would certainly question that.

01:46:32.240 --> 01:46:33.180

Phil: Okay, that's fine.

01:46:34.080 --> 01:46:36.260

Tom: It depends entirely on what you mean by left though.

01:46:36.480 --> 01:46:40.860

Tom: I think what you mean here is liberal rather than left.

01:46:41.240 --> 01:46:41.940

Tom: Both in...

01:46:42.260 --> 01:46:49.140

Tom: And I would argue in the proper sense of the term, which encompasses both conservative liberalism and progressive liberalism.

01:46:49.540 --> 01:46:50.240

Phil: I agree with that.

01:46:50.360 --> 01:46:50.860

Phil: Good point.

01:46:52.220 --> 01:47:20.260

Tom: Yes, but anyway, this is relevant to games because due to the bourgeois nature of games, you saw the avant-garde academic discussion on aesthetics reach mainstream enthusiast discussion for the first time in games as opposed to in cinema or literature or whatever else.

01:47:20.280 --> 01:47:42.500

Tom: So while you obviously would have had and did have a discussion on the cutting edge feminist theories or whatever else in those other mediums, you did not come across those things among the average discussion to which everyone was welcome.

01:47:42.520 --> 01:48:03.460

Tom: So if you had people who were interested in those things outside of the medium, then they would absolutely discuss those things in the context of the medium, but you would not have those discussions occurring by people who were predominantly interested in the medium rather than those things in and of themselves.

01:48:03.480 --> 01:48:42.120

Tom: So way back in the early 2000s on GameSpot, you had things like objectification and the male gaze and representation and all of those things being discussed, not among feminist games websites or among game academics which didn't really exist then, which may also have contributed to this, but among the discussion on just random websites about games, for example, GameSpot.

01:48:43.080 --> 01:48:50.800

Tom: Not by the editorial teams there because they're obviously going to be way behind the times, but by the users of the website.

01:48:51.360 --> 01:49:01.180

Tom: Now that that has spread from games to other mediums, you've seen a pretty hysterical reaction to these sorts of things.

01:49:01.260 --> 01:49:14.720

Tom: But it is fascinating that the reaction, the most extreme version of the reaction to it, also began in the gaming communities before other communities as well.

01:49:14.780 --> 01:49:28.200

Phil: If I could discuss that, though, I will describe myself in that period in the early 2000s as being, and this may have even been an expression that was coined in video game community discussion, as a white knight.

01:49:29.580 --> 01:49:32.000

Phil: You know, and you're familiar with that term.

01:49:32.360 --> 01:49:33.300

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:49:33.540 --> 01:49:37.080

Phil: So from the time, for people who aren't, a white knight was someone who galloped in.

01:49:37.920 --> 01:49:38.840

Tom: Protected the women.

01:49:39.160 --> 01:49:44.400

Phil: Protected all of the people that needed protecting and did massive amounts of virtue signaling.

01:49:45.260 --> 01:50:02.600

Phil: But I'm going to defend myself in this instance, and that is because up until far beyond the early 2000s, any depiction of homosexuality, African Americans and women in games was reprehensibly stupid.

01:50:02.800 --> 01:50:11.080

Phil: You just have to think about the 1990 game, and this is just one example of a thousand, where you had a character called Afro Thunder.

01:50:11.460 --> 01:50:18.420

Phil: He was a black man, and he spoke in Jive and had this ridiculous Afro in the game Ready to Rumble.

01:50:19.860 --> 01:50:22.560

Phil: And you can see this in games like Vigilante 8.

01:50:22.860 --> 01:50:35.560

Phil: You can see it in all sorts of games, that if there was going to be a black person in a game, he was either a criminal, a prisoner, or had a ridiculous Afro, and was a criminal.

01:50:36.940 --> 01:50:41.620

Phil: Depictions of women, just look at Lara Croft, or Dead or Alive.

01:50:41.800 --> 01:50:47.440

Phil: You had ads on network television, oh, she kicks high.

01:50:47.480 --> 01:50:50.660

Phil: Everyone had massive boobs, it was scantily clad.

01:50:50.700 --> 01:50:53.220

Phil: If a woman was in a game, that's what was going on.

01:50:53.780 --> 01:50:54.880

Phil: Oh, you might have a doctor in a game.

01:50:54.900 --> 01:50:56.460

Tom: It was the good old days, is what you're saying.

01:50:56.480 --> 01:50:59.400

Phil: You might have a doctor in a game, but she'd be dressed in a sexy nurse outfit.

01:50:59.720 --> 01:51:00.320

Tom: Yeah.

01:51:00.380 --> 01:51:12.480

Phil: And in terms of homosexuals, if you look at games like God Hand, you'd have these clumsy, ham-fisted interpretations coming out of Japan, which was the only people that would put gay people in games.

01:51:13.040 --> 01:51:19.620

Phil: And they're in possibly camp, you know, wearing hot pants and leather chaps and all of this.

01:51:20.420 --> 01:51:30.500

Phil: So, like, I'm going to defend myself for being a white knight and virtue signaling in those days, because it was, you know, it had to be said.

01:51:30.560 --> 01:51:34.500

Phil: The video games were treating those classes and many more.

01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:36.160

Phil: Don't even talk about the disabled.

01:51:36.180 --> 01:51:37.140

Phil: They weren't in the games.

01:51:37.640 --> 01:51:38.500

Phil: And they're still not.

01:51:38.800 --> 01:51:39.960

Tom: Except in Killer 7.

01:51:42.300 --> 01:51:45.480

Phil: So, do you see where I'm saying, like...

01:51:45.680 --> 01:51:48.220

Tom: I'm not criticizing any of these positions.

01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:48.860

Phil: Yeah.

01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:59.760

Phil: Now, from today's perspective, now that I'm an old man, I've lived another 20 years and, you know, you're seeing more balance and stuff, it's kind of like, yeah, you know what?

01:52:00.060 --> 01:52:01.360

Phil: People can speak up for themselves.

01:52:01.380 --> 01:52:07.360

Phil: They don't need me to ride in on a horse to tell them this, you know, to speak up for them.

01:52:10.220 --> 01:52:16.220

Phil: But this is still pervasive in our culture, this white knight mentality and behavior.

01:52:17.920 --> 01:52:23.120

Tom: Which I think for the same reasons that you have used are equally justifiable.

01:52:23.660 --> 01:52:51.940

Tom: Because while as far as the average person is concerned, no one really has a problem with any of those things, the reactionary backlash to it is of a much more extreme degree than it was at the beginning of this and has been deliberately mobilized rhetorically and also directly by extremely reactionary elements.

01:52:52.720 --> 01:53:03.780

Tom: So I think for your own defense of yourself, you can make that same defense for people who would be doing the same thing you were doing then to people doing that today.

01:53:06.200 --> 01:53:11.920

Phil: Yeah, and another thing too from back then just to incriminate myself too.

01:53:12.400 --> 01:53:25.120

Phil: It was things like I was doing quite well financially and it's like, oh, well, I wouldn't shop at Walmart because they're exploiting poor people.

01:53:25.880 --> 01:53:29.220

Phil: And if you're dumb enough to shop at Walmart, then you just don't know better.

01:53:29.520 --> 01:53:35.580

Phil: It's like, well, first of all, like Walmart is employing tons of people that need jobs.

01:53:36.020 --> 01:53:46.020

Phil: And number two, they're providing great value, you know, through their whatever machinations they're doing, they're providing products at a lower price than anyone else.

01:53:46.040 --> 01:53:54.960

Phil: But back then, it's that whole national public radio, oh, these people don't know for themselves, you know, what's best for them.

01:53:54.960 --> 01:53:57.420

Phil: But we're here to tell them that they shouldn't shop at Walmart.

01:53:57.720 --> 01:54:04.820

Phil: It's like, I'm not here to tell someone on minimum wage that they shouldn't be shopping at the place where they can get the most value for their money, you know.

01:54:05.520 --> 01:54:08.300

Phil: And the same thing happened with, you know, voting.

01:54:08.540 --> 01:54:13.240

Phil: Oh, you know, these poor people don't know, they're voting against their own interests.

01:54:13.260 --> 01:54:15.280

Phil: They should be voting this way or that way.

01:54:15.940 --> 01:54:19.780

Phil: And I look back at that now and just go, what an idiot I was.

01:54:21.000 --> 01:54:26.060

Phil: And not because I'm politically skewed one way or the other, but ultimately people make their own decisions.

01:54:26.500 --> 01:54:38.240

Phil: And just because I think I'm better educated or better informed doesn't mean that I can arrive on the scene and tell them, well, you should be shopping at Target as opposed to Walmart.

01:54:39.020 --> 01:54:40.380

Phil: You know, it's just ridiculous.

01:54:40.400 --> 01:55:11.000

Tom: The voting, people not voting in their own interest is, I think, particularly in the context of America, where most people making that argument would be saying that about very well-off working class people who may not be so well-off now and have certainly lost a huge amount of their status, but generally would be owning some amount of property and being in a reasonably good position.

01:55:11.120 --> 01:55:35.580

Tom: And on top of that, if you do, in fact, believe that they are racist and one of their reasons for voting for a party that you believe is racist and is acting not in their direct economic interests, why would their racism not necessarily be more in their interest than their economic position?

01:55:36.300 --> 01:55:37.020

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

01:55:37.960 --> 01:55:41.100

Phil: And ultimately people are smart enough to make their own decisions, I feel.

01:55:41.560 --> 01:55:47.300

Phil: And it's arrogant to intercept or intercede on behalf of people.

01:55:47.760 --> 01:55:48.900

Phil: It's really arrogant.

01:55:48.900 --> 01:55:51.860

Phil: And this sort of thing is more and more prevalent.

01:55:52.700 --> 01:55:53.880

Phil: Maybe it's not more prevalent.

01:55:53.900 --> 01:55:59.340

Phil: Maybe it's just got a bigger voice because of social media and the fractionalisation of media.

01:56:01.860 --> 01:56:09.240

Tom: I don't know if it's more prevalent or not, but it is certainly amplified by the sensationalist nature of social media.

01:56:09.260 --> 01:56:12.780

Tom: Because again, if you look at the more...

01:56:13.320 --> 01:56:22.620

Tom: Social media gets blamed for this because it is supposedly the democratisation of public discourse when it is in fact the complete opposite of that.

01:56:22.660 --> 01:56:28.100

Tom: It is a fundamentally elitist presentation of public discourse.

01:56:28.900 --> 01:56:42.140

Tom: You compare that to something that actually is a democratically established website or a democratic appropriation of a corporate established website, for example, GameSpot.

01:56:42.340 --> 01:56:58.020

Tom: You had those discussions simultaneously with a million other discussions because the goal of the GameSpot forums was not to make money on advertiser revenue and data accumulation to sell to advertisers.

01:56:58.500 --> 01:57:37.560

Tom: If you are basing your business model on that, then you are inherently going to promote the most sensationalist and argumentative discourse that, contrary to popular belief, rather than resulting in thought, rather than being designed through thought bubbles, is designed between presenting two argumentative positions in the most ridiculous light, because that is what will annoy people and get the most engaged in, one, contributing similarly annoyed responses to it, and, two, being engaged constantly in a discussion back and forth.

01:57:37.700 --> 01:57:44.840

Phil: Yeah, and they knew that, but GameSpot's model back then was page views, because page views used to rule everything in advertising.

01:57:45.460 --> 01:57:52.060

Tom: And the target for their page views, and maybe that changed later on, but was obviously for the stuff they were publishing.

01:57:52.080 --> 01:57:54.660

Phil: Oh no, I think it was just for audience.

01:57:54.680 --> 01:57:58.240

Phil: Back then, back in the 2000s, it was all about audience size.

01:57:58.580 --> 01:58:05.240

Phil: And so forums were great for that, because you'd have people who were compulsively clicking on links, then they'd respond.

01:58:05.900 --> 01:58:13.280

Phil: So to respond, they had to click on a link and then create a page to edit, to put in their response, that counted as a page view.

01:58:15.000 --> 01:58:16.580

Phil: Then you'd post it, that's another page view.

01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:22.500

Phil: Then you'd go back into the thread, and you'd constantly be checking that thread to see if anyone responded to it.

01:58:23.320 --> 01:58:27.580

Phil: Forums were just incredible, and forums are dead today, unfortunately.

01:58:28.000 --> 01:58:35.680

Tom: That is correct, and also obviously the notability of your forum and community would also be a point of advertising.

01:58:36.360 --> 01:59:14.660

Tom: And I would argue, just to contradict what I said before, that not long or somewhat simultaneously, but I would say probably not long after that, once the GameSpot community grew massive, and it was already big when I was there, but it was mainly in the forum, when unions and blogs started to become a major part of the GameSpot website, you could see, and obviously this is not some grand business plan, but something that can easily, naturally happen by people participating in the community.

01:59:15.200 --> 02:00:00.040

Tom: Once that became the case, you also got a much more sensorial attitude from the moderators, and you had discussions playing out in a similar manner as they do on social media, which was one, great for further growing the importance and interest in the forums and the blogs, the very fact that there was censorship and there were arguments over what was acceptable to be on GameSpot and what wasn't acceptable to be on GameSpot became a huge part of the discourse of GameSpot itself, and one of the...

02:00:00.060 --> 02:00:04.260

Tom: What are the attractive things to the website where you could go and argue about these things?

02:00:04.640 --> 02:00:08.040

Phil: Oh, you know what, we've got to wrap this up here.

02:00:08.060 --> 02:00:13.280

Phil: I'll just say here now, we've just got to wrap this up in about, I've got to get out of here by seven.

02:00:14.300 --> 02:00:16.180

Phil: So, is that all right?

02:00:16.200 --> 02:00:19.260

Phil: So, I'll just do a clean break here.

02:00:21.300 --> 02:00:25.640

Phil: Look, I am completely earnest in what I'm about to say.

02:00:26.240 --> 02:00:39.180

Phil: In terms of a sociological study, I think all you need to know about sociology, you could observe on GameSpot from the time they started the forums till the time they blew up their forums.

02:00:40.260 --> 02:00:48.220

Phil: I think it was a fascinating community, and even anthropologically, it's something that you could go back and really study.

02:00:48.240 --> 02:00:59.880

Phil: I was thinking just the other day about how when GameSpot got rid of the unions, and I was like, wow, why, how, and like you were saying.

02:00:59.900 --> 02:01:17.700

Tom: You'll note that just as the feeling of security and safety has collapsed in the world, in the real world simultaneously with the loss of union power, so too did it happen at GameSpot.

02:01:18.200 --> 02:01:25.080

Phil: So these unions for people aren't connected, were basically you got to create your own mini board with your own community.

02:01:25.080 --> 02:01:30.740

Phil: So I was the director of, or the leader of the Candid Collectors Union.

02:01:31.220 --> 02:01:37.840

Phil: And in those places, like it'd be a community of anywhere from 20 to 100 people.

02:01:38.220 --> 02:01:44.480

Phil: You'd advertise, you'd get people in there, and it was your own little community board within GameSpot.

02:01:47.180 --> 02:01:48.680

Phil: And it was wonderful.

02:01:48.700 --> 02:01:50.700

Phil: It was a quote safe space.

02:01:51.380 --> 02:01:53.520

Phil: You know, it was like a cheers.

02:01:53.540 --> 02:01:55.380

Phil: You could go there, everyone knew your name.

02:01:56.600 --> 02:01:59.320

Phil: Everyone knew where you were coming from.

02:01:59.320 --> 02:02:00.880

Phil: Everyone knew who was ornery.

02:02:00.900 --> 02:02:03.200

Phil: Everyone knew who was capitulating.

02:02:03.260 --> 02:02:04.580

Phil: Everyone knew who was nice.

02:02:05.000 --> 02:02:13.180

Phil: And it was these thousands of communities that were developed that I'm assuming they got rid of because they decided, well, we can't moderate them.

02:02:16.420 --> 02:02:22.400

Phil: And after, you know, we can't handle these communities because of, you know, there could be terrorists in there.

02:02:22.420 --> 02:02:24.600

Phil: You know, I don't know why they got rid of them.

02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:30.540

Phil: Probably because they wanted to, they could see it draining away from their main forum, but I don't know why they cared because it was all still page views.

02:02:32.440 --> 02:02:33.920

Phil: But yeah, and then the blogs.

02:02:33.940 --> 02:02:43.520

Phil: And even when you were moderated, you could still go and ask the mods, go to the ask the mods forum and go, hey, you know, what happened here, what did I do?

02:02:44.080 --> 02:02:45.400

Phil: And you'd get great responses.

02:02:47.060 --> 02:02:48.640

Phil: And you know, I was in one.

02:02:48.660 --> 02:02:51.120

Tom: And you could use it as excellent advertising.

02:02:51.500 --> 02:02:53.220

Phil: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

02:02:53.560 --> 02:03:03.580

Phil: And it was funny because it was still a community of, I'm assuming hundreds of thousands of people, but even in the biggest forums, it still felt like a small community where you knew everyone.

02:03:04.780 --> 02:03:06.040

Phil: Yeah, and I missed that.

02:03:06.340 --> 02:03:10.300

Phil: I think it was a great place and it blew up for various different reasons.

02:03:12.420 --> 02:03:19.680

Phil: Gershman Gate was part of it, but I think more than that, it was, they blew it up independently and separate of that.

02:03:21.000 --> 02:03:34.640

Phil: And maybe you've got some thoughts as to why they did that or not, but I mean, they ruined the community by taking away a lot of the tools and it wasn't just the loss of personalities from the site because the personalities on the site were kind of separate from the forum culture.

02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:38.760

Tom: I think there were two potentially contributing factors there.

02:03:38.900 --> 02:03:47.420

Tom: One is just a general sense of a generally incompetent management, judging by a lot of their other decisions at the time.

02:03:47.980 --> 02:04:22.260

Tom: And also the nature of corporate pressure on games journalism and websites then is the anarchic nature of the forums and the fact that a huge amount, perhaps a majority of site traffic was to user created content with which the publishers could not engage in trying to pressure the people writing about them to give them more positive feedback may also have been a contributing factor as well.

02:04:22.520 --> 02:04:23.620

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

02:04:23.640 --> 02:04:24.680

Phil: I think so.

02:04:24.700 --> 02:04:34.080

Phil: The same culture, the same management that developed around Gershman Gate also I think contributed to the fact that you've got what?

02:04:34.080 --> 02:04:47.080

Phil: You've got these thousands of communities that like a Square Enix Union, you know, that you have no control over and they can say whatever they want, they can post whatever they want and you guys aren't in control of it.

02:04:47.540 --> 02:04:49.380

Phil: How, you know, yeah.

02:04:49.800 --> 02:04:52.900

Tom: Because there was no equivalent to that at the time.

02:04:52.920 --> 02:04:55.220

Tom: This is before Reddit was a thing.

02:04:56.620 --> 02:05:05.500

Tom: And Reddit obviously has over the years to massively moderate itself for PR issues and potential legal problems.

02:05:06.120 --> 02:05:17.080

Tom: And while it was around at the same time as 4chan and so forth, 4chan, it was a mainstream thing as opposed to a niche thing.

02:05:17.620 --> 02:05:47.760

Tom: So that would absolutely have terrified a lot of publishers, that sort of freedom of expression because it was putting, if I was to, my career as a quote, games journalist, end quote, my most viewed thing that got onto Neogaf, the Neogaf Forum, couldn't compare to the stuff that I published on my blog in terms of both views and user engagement.

02:05:48.200 --> 02:05:56.400

Tom: So they were essentially giving random people the audience that their own journalists had for the most part.

02:05:56.460 --> 02:05:57.220

Phil: Oh, definitely.

02:05:57.300 --> 02:06:09.280

Phil: It was a massive platform and all you had to do was have a good reputation in the forums or have someone who knew you, that liked you and you just click on their user link and then you go over to their blog.

02:06:09.300 --> 02:06:12.700

Phil: And yeah, it had tremendous reach, tremendous reach.

02:06:13.620 --> 02:06:16.720

Phil: Even more reach than their podcast at the time, I feel.

02:06:18.140 --> 02:06:24.020

Phil: And yeah, it led to a thousand splintered communities when they started screwing it up.

02:06:24.040 --> 02:06:26.820

Phil: And boy, did they screw it up and I don't think they've ever recovered from it.

02:06:27.080 --> 02:06:28.600

Phil: I honestly don't, but.

02:06:28.640 --> 02:06:29.620

Tom: And they certainly have it.

02:06:29.640 --> 02:06:32.560

Phil: Yeah, yeah, which is really unfortunate.

02:06:33.180 --> 02:06:42.560

Phil: I remember we, I attempted a prank or a trolling type thing where we'd encourage members of the VG Press to go over there and just start posting like crazy in their community.

02:06:43.540 --> 02:06:50.460

Phil: But their main forum, the GGD as it used to be known, general gaming discussion, was like completely dead.

02:06:50.800 --> 02:06:54.900

Phil: It was like trolling someone who wasn't there.

02:06:56.600 --> 02:06:58.460

Phil: And it was ineffective, but.

02:06:59.680 --> 02:07:01.640

Phil: Okay, so we've got to wrap this up.

02:07:01.660 --> 02:07:02.700

Phil: So I do want to give you your platform.

02:07:02.720 --> 02:07:07.280

Tom: Well, we very quickly get to how this ties into Robin D'Angelo and white fragility.

02:07:07.400 --> 02:07:08.240

Phil: Her book, yep.

02:07:08.580 --> 02:07:18.240

Tom: Yes, well, so a lot of the feminist commentary and so forth that was percolating around then, I fundamentally disagreed with.

02:07:18.260 --> 02:07:21.440

Tom: And I still fundamentally disagree with today.

02:07:21.860 --> 02:07:26.040

Tom: But I disagree with them on the basis of their arguments.

02:07:26.140 --> 02:07:31.300

Tom: So one example of that is the idea that objectification is bad.

02:07:31.540 --> 02:07:51.020

Tom: Well, I have now read Freud, so I can confirm that objectification is actually a wonderful thing that should be the goal of everyone in that it is finding an object for which you can project all of, to which you can project all of your affections.

02:07:51.080 --> 02:07:53.620

Tom: And that can be sexual affection.

02:07:53.620 --> 02:08:11.280

Tom: And unless you begin with the beginning point that sex is somehow in and of itself dangerous and bad and shameful, I do not believe you can justify that objectification is bad in any way, in and of itself.

02:08:11.480 --> 02:08:16.160

Tom: So that's one example, which I fundamentally disagree with then, and I still fundamentally disagree with.

02:08:16.500 --> 02:08:26.140

Tom: Another is the concept of the male gaze, which was also slightly less clear cut than in other artistic mediums.

02:08:26.160 --> 02:08:34.040

Tom: But again, these things are all interesting to discuss in their content.

02:08:34.220 --> 02:08:45.620

Tom: So the male gaze, for instance, that's not interesting in the sense that you should be trying to eradicate the male gaze or encourage other gazes.

02:08:46.040 --> 02:08:51.180

Tom: I have no problems with people taking those positions, but it's not an interesting idea to me.

02:08:51.200 --> 02:09:02.320

Tom: That is interesting, because if we are to take the idea of the male gaze seriously, then we surely believe that this is telling us something about men.

02:09:03.280 --> 02:09:16.120

Tom: So in this case, most people's interpretation of it would be that one, in the context of video games, there are two things which men very much valorise.

02:09:17.040 --> 02:09:22.580

Tom: One would be women and their sexuality, and the other would be violence.

02:09:22.920 --> 02:09:39.240

Tom: Now, we can then discuss whether those two things are morally good or not, but that is a separate discussion that you have to then consider on a case by case basis of the actual game.

02:09:39.560 --> 02:09:47.800

Tom: And if you use it as a blunt force analysis of something, you are erasing the content of the artwork you were looking at.

02:09:48.100 --> 02:09:50.940

Tom: And in other mediums, this can have hilarious effects.

02:09:51.200 --> 02:10:02.060

Tom: For instance, if you're using the male gaze in art analysis, what you're doing is erasing the contribution of women to a lot of visual art.

02:10:02.200 --> 02:10:15.920

Tom: So if you take a painting and you say, look at this pornographic work of this nude woman, isn't this disgusting how this male painter has exploited this woman to produce his pornography?

02:10:16.220 --> 02:10:21.100

Tom: Well, why do we assume that that is the view of the woman who is modelling for him?

02:10:21.280 --> 02:10:35.080

Tom: We're not even asking what her view on it was, and we don't even think that the fact that she is the model in what is considered a great work of art is an important part of the artwork.

02:10:35.320 --> 02:10:53.020

Tom: So we're one, totally ignoring what her views might be, and two, we're saying that in the creation of an artwork, which is involving the male painter and a female model, only the male painter's contribution to the artwork is valid and relevant.

02:10:54.360 --> 02:11:11.300

Phil: Yeah, I mean, so what I was talking about earlier is that the presumption that you're identifying people as victims when they may not be victims, and that's that arrogance that I was talking about earlier where, well, you don't know what's best for you.

02:11:12.140 --> 02:11:17.960

Phil: Obviously, if you're doing this sort of thing, you've been tricked into it or you're too dumb or I know better for you.

02:11:18.500 --> 02:11:19.800

Phil: So, yeah.

02:11:20.220 --> 02:11:22.580

Tom: Yep, so we're about to get to the white fragility part.

02:11:22.600 --> 02:11:31.200

Tom: So that was my reason for opposing those aesthetic analysis then, and those remain my position today.

02:11:31.880 --> 02:11:40.300

Tom: It very quickly became apparent to me, though, that that wasn't the reason that most people opposed those sorts of views.

02:11:40.480 --> 02:11:55.520

Tom: Now, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for their opposition because they were totally incapable of articulating why they were in opposition to those analyses of games.

02:11:56.280 --> 02:12:15.900

Tom: But I came to that conclusion because for the same reason that I, for instance, on a simple level, was opposed to people saying they wanted more female video game characters, I'm opposed to that view just because to me that is totally alien.

02:12:15.940 --> 02:12:23.220

Tom: I personally, this doesn't apply to what anyone else should want, so when I say I'm opposed to that view, I just mean I don't share that view.

02:12:23.240 --> 02:12:24.260

Tom: I don't mean I'm opposed to it.

02:12:24.640 --> 02:12:29.560

Tom: Personally, I do not relate more to male or female characters in any form of art.

02:12:30.280 --> 02:12:43.060

Tom: And I personally find that if I did, I would be dehumanizing myself and taking a sexist view of the world if I were to do that.

02:12:44.220 --> 02:12:56.720

Tom: Now, I can perfectly understand that if someone wants male or female characters, by my own position, that's irrelevant because if the character is good and they're male or female, it will be equally good to me, obviously.

02:12:57.920 --> 02:13:03.120

Tom: I have this same totally agnostic view to all content in art.

02:13:03.340 --> 02:13:20.040

Tom: So while I was pointing out the problems with those sorts of views, I was also defending games like Rape Play and a lot of other Japanese games that featured sexual violence and things like that.

02:13:20.300 --> 02:13:39.200

Tom: And all of these people who would be agreeing with me when it came to the context of the potentially sensorial direction in which these feminist positions could go on the basis of free speech, all of a sudden, no, these things should be banned.

02:13:39.880 --> 02:13:50.580

Tom: They're totally disgusting and unacceptable and you just cannot possibly conceive of a thing like that being released in the market in the West.

02:13:50.620 --> 02:13:53.800

Tom: It's totally unacceptable and disgusting.

02:13:54.680 --> 02:14:09.300

Tom: So again, I very quickly learned that these people did not really have much of an interest in free speech at all, nor do they have any justification in their logic for opposing a lot of the feminist critiques.

02:14:10.580 --> 02:14:25.220

Tom: So having now read a lot of reactionary writing as well as liberal writing, I find something like White Fragility is actually in a sense a very revelatory book.

02:14:25.760 --> 02:14:44.500

Tom: It is one, fundamentally white supremacist book, and two, a lot of what she interprets as latent racism and the easiness with which offending white people, she can offend white people, judging how she goes around bullying people, judging by her descriptions of her actions.

02:14:44.800 --> 02:14:56.960

Tom: I think that her bullying may have as much to do with the way she upsets people as with the way in which she highlights racist stuff.

02:14:57.480 --> 02:15:16.120

Tom: But I do think that particularly with the way that reactionary politics has been able to mobilize a lot of people in gaming, the concept of white fragility may actually be applicable to a lot of people on GameSpot that I was encountering.

02:15:16.300 --> 02:15:42.000

Tom: Not in the sense because a lot of this stuff was not to do with race, that came a bit later, but in the sense that they were being confronted with the fact, as you were saying, that a lot of the depictions of women in games were inherently sexist and a lot of the depictions of gay people in games whenever they rarely appeared were fundamentally homophobic.

02:15:42.340 --> 02:15:53.700

Tom: And the real problem that they had, not that they could articulate it, was that this being pointed out to them made them uncomfortable because they enjoyed those things.

02:15:54.160 --> 02:16:09.440

Tom: And having that pointed out, confronted with the fact that they enjoyed them and maybe they were enjoying them because they were homophobic and they were enjoying a bullying sort of humour.

02:16:10.180 --> 02:16:10.960

Phil: Yeah, no doubt.

02:16:13.000 --> 02:16:16.960

Tom: So I told you I would point out how it absolutely related to games.

02:16:16.980 --> 02:16:18.080

Phil: Oh, definitely.

02:16:18.100 --> 02:16:19.680

Phil: It was a good discussion.

02:16:19.860 --> 02:16:30.140

Phil: And yeah, I think that a lot of these things are absolutely appalling in terms of their racism, all in the name of anti-racism.

02:16:30.160 --> 02:16:34.580

Phil: It's just, to me, it's incredible how people don't see the transparency there.

02:16:35.140 --> 02:17:18.520

Tom: And the stupidest thing about the book, which as a supposed wonderful solution to what is supposed to be the problem with fighting systemic racism today, being that you have to have intentionality to racism, I would suggest that Robin DiAngelo goes back and reads quotes by the owners of slaves and by the politicians against desegregation and look for quotes where they're saying, yes, I'm a racist because she will find it very difficult to find quotes like that.

02:17:18.880 --> 02:17:23.780

Tom: And generally speaking, all of these people will in fact not be racist.

02:17:23.920 --> 02:17:25.220

Tom: They will not be bigoted.

02:17:25.520 --> 02:17:30.420

Tom: And the reason that they own slaves will be because they love black people.

02:17:30.920 --> 02:17:39.560

Tom: And both races deserve the opportunity to live in harmony in their own groups to their mutual benefit.

02:17:43.300 --> 02:17:45.760

Phil: Okay, so is that pretty much it?

02:17:46.540 --> 02:17:47.320

Tom: Yes, that was it.

02:17:47.540 --> 02:17:48.000

Phil: Okay.

02:17:48.500 --> 02:17:57.240

Tom: And I think that our final rant cements my political correctness or lack thereof.

02:17:57.840 --> 02:17:58.840

Tom: Or both simultaneously.

02:17:58.860 --> 02:18:00.880

Phil: I think it cements you getting kicked off Twitter.

02:18:03.120 --> 02:18:30.600

Tom: Well, the amazing thing is, and the funniest thing about my experience at Gamespot is if I were as immature as I was on Gamespot, and I don't really think I'm in any way more mature than I was on Gamespot, but if I was less of an ethical person, I learnt every single technique to become a media superstar on the internet today in the sphere of politics.

02:18:30.940 --> 02:18:50.440

Tom: I could be out there exposing the cultural Marxists or the latent unconscious biases and making an absolute fortune on social media using techniques I learnt writing a satirical blog on Gamespot.

02:18:51.200 --> 02:18:54.520

Phil: I would hope so, but I don't think your microphone would have...

02:18:55.420 --> 02:19:00.260

Phil: I don't think your message would get out there, honestly.

02:19:00.400 --> 02:19:02.040

Phil: I don't think you'd be able to get it out there.

02:19:02.800 --> 02:19:03.980

Tom: But it's not my message.

02:19:04.000 --> 02:19:05.280

Tom: I wouldn't be presenting my message.

02:19:05.300 --> 02:19:06.700

Phil: Oh no, I know that.

02:19:06.720 --> 02:19:07.480

Tom: That's the difference.

Tom: Because, see, the thing...

Tom: I, unlike many other blogs on Gamespot, I had to actually do a lot of grassroots spam-style advertising to build an audience.

Tom: The people who had my techniques of the other forms of advertising where you are presenting yourself as a martyr all the time, as long as you have the basic message there and you have the level of polish and articulation, I think I would have the skills to pull it off.

Phil: Okay, well that's the end of the podcast or the after show of the podcast.

Phil: Thank you very much for listening.

Phil: And with that, I'm going to bid you adieu.

Phil: Adieu.

Game Under Podcast 133

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:09 Season 9 Begins
0:00:42 Podcast Talk
0:05:59 How This Show Works
Feature - Phil Upgrades His PC
0:06:32 Thanks to Tom
0:09:15 Can't Buy a New Console - Nintendo's Record Sales
0:10:09 Pokemon Funded Upgrade

First Impressions - Tom
0:11:47 Cyberpunk 2077 (PC)
0:12:36 CD Projekt Red Victim of Ransomware
0:16:00 Witcher 3 vs. Cyberpunk Release
0:23:00 Japan!
0:31:55 CD Projekt Red & Storytelling
0:34:17 Gender Studies
0:37:17 What Could They Have Done Differently?
0:43:07 Is it Good?

Final Thoughts - Tom and Phil
0:58:15 Space Court (PC)
First Impression - Tom
1:10:10 The Medium (Xbox Series, PC)

Trademark Banter
1:21:15 Tom Read 425 Books Last Year. This was his favourite.
1:27:45 Sky Children of Light Controversy

Final Thoughts - Tom and Phil
1:32:55 Coffee Talk (Windows, Mac, Switch ,PS4, XB1)
First Impression - Tom and Phil
1:52:45 Mind Scanners Beta

Trademark Banter
2:00:39 Tom Drinks Mountain Dew for the First Time

Transcript

Phil: Hello and welcome to episode 133 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:16.620

Phil: I'm your host Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by Mr.

00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:17.420

Phil: Tom Towers.

00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:18.720

Phil: Tom, welcome to the show.

00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:20.540

Tom: Thank you, Phil.

00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:25.000

Phil: First time listeners should probably know why, why listen to this show?

00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:30.120

Phil: Because it's the most engaging discussion of interesting video games on the Internet.

00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:33.600

Phil: We're the longest running podcast in Australia.

00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:36.760

Tom: Probably of any type of podcast.

00:00:37.220 --> 00:00:42.340

Phil: I think we started recording podcasts in 1995, we're up to episode 133.

00:00:42.360 --> 00:01:07.560

Tom: On the topic of Australian podcasts, I do wonder if the two of us recording a podcast is potentially a good idea or not, because the few times I listen to podcasts outside of two podcasts that I follow, I am routinely horrified and disappointed.

00:01:07.580 --> 00:01:13.240

Phil: Well, that's because the only podcast you listen to are Alex Jones and something I can't come up with.

00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:19.560

Tom: I'm sure Alex Jones' podcasts will be incredible based on his old content.

00:01:19.740 --> 00:01:38.320

Tom: I stopped being interested in Alex Jones when he pivoted away from a general sort of existential dread to a massive focus on removing Muslims from the face of the earth for a period of time.

00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:43.960

Tom: I don't know if he's still on that or not, but that's when I stopped following Alex Jones.

00:01:44.740 --> 00:01:48.280

Phil: I think since he's been deplatformed, it's more about the ads than anything else.

00:01:48.480 --> 00:02:04.260

Tom: I think it always was actually, from the very beginning, there was a lot of advertising going on, but I recommend anyone who is interested, I'm pretty sure it's on YouTube, look up Alex Jones and Noam Chomsky, because they had an interview.

00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:06.140

Phil: No, they didn't.

00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:06.940

Tom: Yes, they did.

00:02:07.020 --> 00:02:11.880

Tom: And it is as incredible as you would imagine it to be.

00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:19.820

Phil: I love when famous people get trawled because they just go onto a show thinking, oh, well, it's a show.

00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:32.280

Phil: I won't bother to research who the host is and his theories about how we're turning the frogs gay and people can give birth to cows and things like that.

00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:33.280

Phil: I'll just go on the show.

00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:37.340

Tom: Well, Noam Chomsky and Alex Jones are both in the same wheelhouse.

00:02:38.580 --> 00:02:46.340

Tom: So I think that's not that strange of a combination, particularly earlier on in Alex Jones' career.

00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.980

Tom: And I think Ali G also interviewed Noam Chomsky, I believe.

00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:53.400

Phil: Oh, excellent.

00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:54.980

Phil: Okay, all right.

00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.360

Phil: So I'm sorry to throw you off course there, but you were saying...

00:02:58.380 --> 00:03:04.620

Tom: Yes, I think we've mentioned the infamous Joe Rogan experience on the show before.

00:03:05.700 --> 00:03:13.580

Tom: The most popular and successful podcast ever, arguably even more successful than The Game Under Podcast.

00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:23.160

Tom: And maybe this is professional jealousy, but I have watched a few episodes of that and I fail utterly to see the appeal.

00:03:23.220 --> 00:03:40.280

Tom: And though I have never seen the word pretentious applied to really podcast in general, except perhaps The Game Under Podcast, that is the word that comes to mind when I think of the majority of mainstream popular podcasts.

00:03:41.400 --> 00:04:01.440

Tom: An Australian one is Trash Taste, which basically features a bunch of Australians immersed in Japanese art, who have the most bland and generic personalities, the most milquetoast takes on everything you can imagine.

00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:14.320

Tom: And when they manage to get even an interesting guest on the show, they bombard them with vanilla sauce, to put it another way, for want of a better word.

00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:15.620

Tom: And it is just horrific.

00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:42.260

Tom: And the contrast to that, that I probably wouldn't describe as pretentious, but the contrast to that is things like Joe Rogan, where you have someone who believes that you can find the meaning of life in MMA, and that he has had the most profound experiences on drugs and meditation and all of this sort of bullshit.

00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:48.660

Tom: Yet, when has he ever said a single profound thing on any of those subjects?

00:04:49.260 --> 00:04:55.120

Tom: As someone who has watched several episodes, I'm obviously an expert, so I would have noticed it.

00:04:56.280 --> 00:05:00.020

Phil: Well, he's on Spotify and we're on Spotify as well.

00:05:00.300 --> 00:05:01.420

Phil: We cut a deal with Spotify.

00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:02.960

Tom: We got on Spotify before he did.

00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:03.860

Tom: Before he did.

00:05:03.880 --> 00:05:06.340

Tom: We broke the ground that he now walks.

00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:08.200

Phil: We're the trailblazers.

00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:21.920

Phil: And I think the thing with Joe Rogan that's most fascinating is listening to him interview people like Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton, famous comedians, and see how soon he gets to him.

00:05:21.940 --> 00:05:24.220

Tom: Hillary Clinton, an incredible comedian.

00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:32.940

Tom: People say, women famously, what's the English Trotskyist troll who supported the Iraq War called again?

00:05:34.300 --> 00:05:35.220

Tom: Christopher Hitchens.

00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.760

Phil: Oh, I thought you were going to say Madeleine Albright.

00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:40.680

Tom: I don't think she's English.

00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:42.500

Phil: No, no, no, she's not English.

00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:48.280

Tom: Can you believe that Madeleine Albright wrote a book warning America about the rise of fascism?

00:05:48.840 --> 00:05:56.580

Tom: Yeah, yeah, given her background, I mean, I mean, she, I assumed it would be a manual, but apparently it is a cautionary tale.

00:05:57.400 --> 00:06:00.340

Phil: Well, she, we don't need to get into Madeleine Albright here.

00:06:00.700 --> 00:06:02.200

Phil: This is a video game podcast.

00:06:02.220 --> 00:06:09.060

Phil: So new time listeners are listening to us because you used to be a journalist and my credentials are I used to be a friend.

00:06:09.080 --> 00:06:12.260

Phil: So that's how this show works, basically.

00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:20.900

Tom: That was until I discovered a few secrets about my co-host during my journalistic work and we're now no longer friends.

00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:28.000

Phil: Well, no, but we have to keep doing the podcast because, you know, longest running game podcast in Australia.

00:06:28.020 --> 00:06:29.180

Phil: Come on, who's going to give up that?

00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:31.420

Phil: And the lucrative advertising money.

00:06:32.140 --> 00:06:44.960

Phil: Now I want to thank you because first of all, I want to thank you because you've been turning me on to some very good PC games lately that we'll be talking about in this episode.

00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:50.440

Phil: But I also want to thank you because in our last episode, you talked about VR.

00:06:51.380 --> 00:06:57.200

Phil: And that started me down the road of upgrading my PC under your direct guidance.

00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:12.200

Phil: And while it was a rough and bumpy road as all PC builds are, and I was at a certain point where it's like, you know what, I'm just going to have to take everything out, put everything back in and forget about it and sell the parts that I bought on eBay.

00:07:13.580 --> 00:07:23.720

Phil: I got to the end of it and it's been ritually rewarding having a worthy PC gaming rig again.

00:07:23.860 --> 00:07:34.520

Phil: And basically what I can describe it as, I upgraded the CPU, not to get into details, and I upgraded my video card into something else I upgraded.

00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:37.200

Tom: The RAM, I believe.

00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:38.140

Phil: The RAM, yep.

00:07:38.420 --> 00:07:52.740

Phil: There was something else, but the video card upgrade was basically, and tell me if I'm wrong, it was like the best upgrade you could get without getting into the ray tracing tier of video game card.

00:07:52.760 --> 00:07:53.300

Phil: Is that right?

00:07:53.860 --> 00:08:12.240

Tom: Well, an alternative purchase in your price range, which would have been about $50 to $100 more depending on what price you were able to get, that would have been an RTX 2060, which would be the slowest technically ray tracing cable card you could get.

00:08:12.280 --> 00:08:12.620

Phil: Right.

00:08:12.640 --> 00:08:22.080

Tom: But if you go for the card you got, a 5600 XT, then you do get a substantial improvement in the frame rate.

00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:30.740

Tom: And if you are getting an RTX 2060, you will be having difficulty using ray tracing most games anyway.

00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:32.360

Phil: Yeah, and that's what I thought.

00:08:32.380 --> 00:08:38.220

Phil: I would get the best of a category rather than getting the lowest of the next category up.

00:08:38.800 --> 00:08:39.460

Tom: That's right.

00:08:39.940 --> 00:08:52.200

Tom: And also because you only upgraded the CPU without the motherboard, and the motherboard is a very old one, you probably, it would be a waste of money getting anything faster than the 5600 XT.

00:08:52.220 --> 00:08:59.680

Phil: Yeah, and if you are going to upgrade the CPU, the motherboard and the video card, then you may as well not go ahead with an upgrade, just get a whole new PC.

00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:01.560

Phil: And start from scratch.

00:09:01.880 --> 00:09:04.680

Phil: So, this one will get me through probably another three years.

00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.180

Phil: It's certainly good enough to run a VR rig at this point.

00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:24.520

Phil: And so, first of all, A, I want to thank you for the games you've been sending my way in terms of bringing to my attention, and B, the PC upgrade scratched that itch that I couldn't get because I can't buy a PlayStation or an Xbox in Australia, in terms of the new consoles.

00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:25.760

Tom: I don't think you can buy them anywhere.

00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:26.740

Phil: You can't.

00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:33.400

Phil: Nintendo announced this week that they've sold 80 million switches.

00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:41.540

Phil: And meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft can't produce enough because of the semiconductor shortage.

00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:51.140

Phil: They can't produce enough product to sell, which is only pushing Nintendo sales up even higher because you go into a game shop, you want to buy the newest and greatest.

00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:53.060

Phil: Oh, you don't have PlayStation, you don't have Xbox.

00:09:53.420 --> 00:09:54.120

Phil: What's the switch?

00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:57.220

Phil: And then they get the switch, so yeah.

00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:01.520

Phil: So thank you because with the PC, it's re-engaged me with PC gaming.

00:10:02.180 --> 00:10:10.520

Phil: And at this point, and I know people are going to think, oh, I'm only saying PC is superior to console right now because I've made this investment.

00:10:10.760 --> 00:10:14.160

Phil: This was a tiny, infinitesimal investment.

00:10:14.180 --> 00:10:15.240

Phil: This was like nothing.

00:10:16.400 --> 00:10:26.880

Phil: I sold two Pokemon GBA games while I was doing the build and I had hundreds of dollars left over from that to fund this upgrade.

00:10:29.060 --> 00:10:42.100

Tom: From the fact that you had hundreds of dollars left over from selling two Pokemon GBA games, I think that should probably suggest to the listener that they were not just any Pokemon GBA games that you sold.

00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:43.040

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:44.560

Phil: I did only sell two of them.

00:10:45.660 --> 00:10:50.280

Phil: And they were not sealed in box, but they were a new in box.

00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:54.020

Phil: The box still had the cellophane, all the materials that came in the box.

00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:58.880

Phil: And yeah, I mean, I've played through and beat those games.

00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:05.960

Phil: With my eyesight, the way it is as we all age, I'm not going back to play a GBA game anytime soon.

00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.560

Phil: It's hard enough playing on a Switch, well, if for some games, which we'll get into later.

00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:18.540

Phil: But yeah, I mean, like, I am so reinvigorated back into the PC.

00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:34.920

Phil: Given the downloads and the updates and all the troubles that I'm having with the modern consoles, I'm just really happy to be Switch PC right now, and not really eager to jump back in to PlayStation 5 or Xbox Series X.

00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:36.620

Phil: So yeah, so thank you.

00:11:36.920 --> 00:11:40.880

Phil: And as a result, we're gonna have quite a few games to talk about together today.

00:11:42.180 --> 00:11:50.300

Phil: One game I didn't jump into, that I'm not even, should I, or could I be able to play Cyber Punk 2077 on my current rig?

00:11:51.160 --> 00:12:00.260

Tom: The point of difficulty might be the CPU, but you should certainly be able to start it and give it a try.

00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:06.480

Tom: The video card is well in the range of being able to play it.

00:12:07.300 --> 00:12:16.680

Phil: And I'm just gonna reiterate, in case people didn't pick up earlier, it's a 5600 XT is what Tom selected for my video card.

00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:18.980

Phil: I would have been lost without him.

00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:34.540

Phil: But the question is, should anyone play Cyber Punk 2077, given all the reports about the bugs and the glitches, and ultimately even setting that aside, not having very good game play?

00:12:35.140 --> 00:12:39.600

Tom: And they have on top of that, breaking news from yesterday.

00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:51.300

Tom: They have been hacked by ransomware hackers, and all of their programming infrastructure is currently being held hostage.

00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:56.660

Phil: Yeah, all their source code, all their HR documents, all their legal documents.

00:12:57.180 --> 00:13:01.940

Phil: But what I missed in the story is what they're actually, what is the ransom that they're demanding?

00:13:02.900 --> 00:13:11.720

Tom: Well, they released the ransom note, and I don't think the ransom note actually mentioned how much money or whatever else they were demanding.

00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:15.420

Tom: So maybe they're waiting for CD Projekt Red to make them an offer.

00:13:19.260 --> 00:13:23.660

Phil: There was one, I'm just gonna look it up because it was one part of the ransom note that I particularly liked.

00:13:24.380 --> 00:13:28.960

Phil: Yeah, I mean, this happens every day to a whole bunch of other businesses.

00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:34.100

Phil: But this one is unusual because usually it's kept private.

00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:41.260

Phil: And also the ransom note isn't just a generic ransom note.

00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.740

Phil: They're calling out the fact that they're gonna sell the source code and all this sort of thing.

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:50.980

Tom: Given that we're both fans of Alex Jones and CD Projekt.

00:13:51.640 --> 00:13:53.800

Tom: Yeah, massive fans of Alex Jones.

00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.740

Tom: He is our number one source of political news.

00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:06.000

Tom: I mean, people may wonder why we were briefly on hiatus.

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:12.240

Tom: One of us may or may not have returned to America to carry out a little political activism.

00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.460

Tom: But I won't go into details.

00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.300

Phil: Look man, I was wearing a mask.

00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:18.080

Phil: Nothing can be proved.

00:14:18.740 --> 00:14:28.040

Tom: Yeah, in the mode of Alex Jones, CD Projekt Red were the absolute masters of PR campaigns.

00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:52.860

Tom: When Witcher 3 was released, it was a buggy and to quite a large degree, a broken mess, including in terms of gameplay in many people's minds, to the point where they totally redid the movement and control system, massively altering how combat functioned, and a variety of things like that.

00:14:53.020 --> 00:15:05.840

Tom: And because they promised that they were gonna fix all this and had a really good PR team, the gaming community just ate it up and loved it.

00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:11.680

Tom: The CD, the Cyber Punk 2077 release has been the absolute opposite of that.

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.380

Tom: And they have handled everything in the worst manner possible.

00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:31.720

Tom: Could this be a final Hail Mary in their failed PR campaign to restore their reputation after their promises to fix Cyber Punk 2077 have obviously failed?

00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:32.800

Phil: Oh, definitely.

00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:39.400

Phil: I mean, they've taken this ransom and said, okay, how can we maximize the impact, which is why they released it.

00:15:40.180 --> 00:15:46.020

Phil: I'm saying, did they potentially hack themselves?

00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:49.480

Phil: I don't think that they hacked themselves.

00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:52.940

Phil: I think they're just opportunistic and taking advantage of it.

00:15:53.260 --> 00:15:59.920

Phil: Now, having said that, Capcom, same thing happened to them in December of last year.

00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:05.600

Phil: I mean, this is very recent, so it'd be the exact same thing, but they didn't release the broken English note.

00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.580

Phil: So the fact that they released it, I think they're just using this like COVID.

00:16:11.160 --> 00:16:36.500

Phil: Well, they're rather, they're using this as they should have used COVID to release Cyber Punk 2077 only as a PC game and then roll it out to the consoles slowly, because had it been released as a PC game, from all reports, if a PC is capable of running it and people who played it on Google Stadia, it worked well.

00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:51.320

Tom: Well, we should add there, because a lot of people who defend the game have responded to criticism of the optimization by claiming that people are trying to run it on obsolete hardware and hardware that isn't powerful enough to run it properly.

00:16:51.760 --> 00:17:06.280

Tom: But when you look at the system requirements, due to the poor optimization, people with hardware far and above what is actually asked of them have run into difficulties running the game as well.

00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:11.880

Tom: So it is certainly very poorly optimized as a game.

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:31.020

Tom: That being said, my own experience with Cyber Punk 2077, outside of some at times very frustrating glitches and a lack of hilarious glitches has technically been not too bad at all.

00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:43.900

Tom: There are certain areas within the city where there are totally inexplicable frame rate drops from 50 to 60 FPS to 20 that occur.

00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:55.940

Tom: I can only assume it's when they are spawning NPCs off screen to walk into the scene that you can't see or something like that.

00:17:56.820 --> 00:18:04.380

Tom: But beyond that, it has actually run pretty well when you consider how technically advanced it is.

00:18:04.580 --> 00:18:13.740

Tom: And it is probably the best use of ray tracing since Metro Exodus, I would say.

00:18:13.760 --> 00:18:31.580

Tom: The difference in the visuals between having ray tracing on and off, it totally changes the atmosphere of the game because it is this really oversaturated, colourful, 80s-inspired look.

00:18:32.260 --> 00:18:52.340

Tom: And when you have the ray tracing off without the more detailed, shiny lights and the more realistic reflections, you end up with something that looks really, it still looks really good, but it looks really cartoony and a little bit flat as well.

00:18:52.360 --> 00:19:06.840

Tom: Whereas if you have the ray tracing on, it really nails the 80s aesthetic that they're going for without it becoming a cartoony and flat, which it was at risk of.

00:19:07.260 --> 00:19:34.860

Tom: And a lot of games that do a vibrant colour scheme in the past, for instance, Uncharted 4 and 3, scenes in both of those games, when you are in the most colourful areas, because the lighting is kind of crap, and there's no reflections adding two different gradients to the colour, it all ends up being really flat and a little bit bland.

00:19:35.120 --> 00:19:43.440

Tom: The colour palette in 2077 is on another level to Naughty Dog's art direction, so even when it is flat, it still looks really good.

00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:56.980

Tom: But without the ray tracing, it is a massive downgrade, and arguably affects the atmosphere to a greater level than even in Metro Exodus.

00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:14.780

Tom: Because in Metro Exodus, the effect that it has to a degree where it totally changes the feeling of the game isn't throughout the entirety of the game, it's through certain sections, whereas in Cyber Punk 2077, the entirety of the game is affected by this.

00:20:15.320 --> 00:20:17.700

Phil: Were you a fan of Witcher 3?

00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:31.160

Tom: Yes, I was, but not for the same reasons or to the same degree as most fans of The Witcher 3.

00:20:31.300 --> 00:20:34.260

Tom: I hated, absolutely hated the combat.

00:20:34.340 --> 00:20:43.320

Tom: I thought it was just atrocious and boring, which you're apparently not meant to use when criticizing a game.

00:20:43.340 --> 00:20:48.940

Tom: But I did write a several thousand word review of it, so you can go there if you want any details.

00:20:49.560 --> 00:21:03.580

Tom: The thing I loved about The Witcher 3 was the setting, the characters and some elements of the storytelling put it on another level to most fantasy, not just in games.

00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:20.120

Tom: You take, for example, some of the earlier quests, where they really made use of European folklore, integrating it into the quests in a way that you don't see in most fantasy.

00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:39.940

Tom: Even though fantasy will make references to those sorts of things, they're usually not really written into the story, and you just end up with something that is an atrocious copy of Lord of the Rings, which again, Lord of the Rings is very much written from its inspirations.

00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:46.620

Tom: And Cyber Punk 2077, I think, is a disappointment there.

00:21:46.960 --> 00:22:03.000

Tom: Now, obviously, they're not drawing on folklore here, but on the genre of cyberpunk, which is, I do have to say, 99% of cyberpunk, including Neuromancy, is complete and utter shit.

00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:18.340

Tom: It is essentially fan fiction of beat novels with a modern technological aesthetic, because a lot of beat writing is very much technological driven.

00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:43.100

Tom: So first of all, you don't want to be writing beat fan fiction, because there's two good beat writers, one of whom was a poet, who himself was basically, to some degree, William Blake fan fiction, and the other was one of the great geniuses of American literature and the modern novel full stop.

00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:47.360

Tom: And everything else in beat canon is shit.

00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:55.500

Tom: So when you're copying shit that was only done well by a genius, the result is probably not going to be very good.

00:22:56.180 --> 00:22:58.380

Tom: And the result isn't very good for the most part.

00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:15.780

Tom: But the one interesting thing about Cyber Punk is the commentary on the era in which it was written and the themes that it contains, which have been reduced in our modern conception of Cyber Punk to an aesthetic.

00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:27.680

Tom: So, for example, in Cyber Punk, there's a real interest and obsession with Middle Eastern culture and Japanese culture.

00:23:27.820 --> 00:23:34.720

Tom: And the Middle Eastern part of it has been totally excised from modern Cyber Punk for obvious reasons.

00:23:35.820 --> 00:23:37.140

Tom: The Japanese remains.

00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:55.140

Tom: But the reason that there was an obsession with Japan in the Cyber Punk is because at the time in America, there was a fear that Japan, with their booming economy, was gonna take over the world in the same way there's a fear of China doing so today.

00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:57.080

Phil: I was gonna say exactly that.

00:23:57.100 --> 00:23:58.320

Phil: And boom is the right word.

00:23:58.340 --> 00:24:12.380

Phil: I mean, the thought of Japan being influential to that extent or overpowering in that extent is a boomer mentality, right?

00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:14.960

Phil: It's something that was coming out of the 90s.

00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:17.120

Phil: Like, oh yeah, we gotta be concerned about Japan.

00:24:17.580 --> 00:24:21.760

Phil: And so when a movie like, god, Harrison Ford movie.

00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:25.080

Tom: Star Wars, Indiana Jones.

00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:27.360

Tom: Has he been in any other films?

00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.060

Phil: Blade Runner.

00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.820

Tom: Let's not talk about that.

00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:42.400

Phil: So when you watch Blade Runner, for example, there's a lot of Japanese neon signs and Japanese influence, and that's obviously what Cyber Punk is tapping into as well.

00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:55.680

Tom: And just on that point, we should add that it's not just Cyber Punk today that it excises the themes of things, it's also the mainstream adaptions of Cyber Punk as well.

00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:05.000

Tom: Case in point, Blade Runner, which totally obliterates the Christian themes in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.

00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:15.880

Phil: Yeah, and the other good thing about, I mean, in terms of Cyber Punk, it's people looking futurists, looking into the future going, okay, what's gonna win out?

00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.980

Phil: So it's a very boom mentality to include any Japanese influence in that.

00:25:20.020 --> 00:25:25.720

Phil: Like, oh yeah, obviously they were gonna win because they own Toyota and look at their manufacturing systems.

00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:33.940

Phil: And the other one, which I think is right, or at least better, is the Middle East.

00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:47.660

Phil: Because you look at something that would scare a boomer or a Western person of that age, and you go, well, obviously Islam is going to eventually overtake Christianity as a predominant religion.

00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:54.660

Phil: And in our own regions, you look at Indonesia, for example, and you go, well, that's obviously the way it's gonna go.

00:25:54.680 --> 00:26:02.200

Tom: Yep, and religious, as we can see even in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:02.960

Tom: And Philip K.

00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:08.120

Tom: Dick in general, this being, that being a progenitor to Cyber Punk.

00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:16.580

Tom: From the 70s to the 80s, there's a real existential dread in American fiction about religion.

00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:19.440

Tom: And in Philip K.

00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:27.900

Tom: Dick, that's through the lens of Christianity and also Eastern religions, not so much the Middle East.

00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:36.320

Tom: Whereas when you get to Cyber Punk, due to the geopolitical maneuverings at the time, that moves on to Islam.

00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:42.720

Tom: But today, in Cyber Punk, that Islamic theme has disappeared.

00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.820

Phil: Which is Australia.

00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:58.500

Tom: Yep, except in post-Cyber Punk stuff like Snow Crash, and then it's more so in the context of anthropology and linguistics, as opposed to a religious and cultural thing.

00:26:58.780 --> 00:27:11.480

Tom: But what I'm getting at to eventually is, sadly, Cyber Punk 2077 does not live up to the credentials of Witcher 3, because none of that is in Cyber Punk 2077.

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:18.220

Tom: The basic plot, sorry, the references to Japan are purely aesthetic.

00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:37.120

Tom: It's just merely that naturally, through the exchange of culture, Japanese influence has grown in America, and everything's hunky-dory, and no one really has a problem with that, nor is it necessarily something that is either exciting or dangerous.

00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:50.640

Tom: It just is, and it has no bearing on politics or economics or anything like that, or even culture really, because it's all basically just the adoption of Japanese aesthetics.

00:27:52.080 --> 00:28:11.020

Tom: Beyond that, maybe in some of the corporate culture, if it's involving Japanese things, Japanese people and companies, there will be some Japanese honor system going on and stuff like that, but it's really basic and just an aesthetic effect.

00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.220

Tom: And that's true for basically all the Cyberpunk themes.

00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:26.660

Tom: It's not even really a Cyberpunk story, because the plot is basically, it begins kind of like a heist story.

00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:28.480

Tom: I mean, it does begin as a heist story.

00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:40.220

Tom: And the main plot line, before it goes off in a slightly different direction, is basically a rags to riches story of someone.

00:28:40.580 --> 00:28:45.260

Tom: And you can choose three different origin stories, but they all basically amount to a rags to riches story.

00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:55.180

Tom: And the direction it goes in, there is corporate intrigue, as you would expect in a cyberpunk story, but without any real meaning.

00:28:55.180 --> 00:29:04.160

Tom: I mean, the city is supposedly massively corporate influence, but there are mayoral elections going on.

00:29:04.520 --> 00:29:18.040

Tom: There's a police force that they say is corporate, but jokes aside regarding the AI of the police, appears to be related to the government and a combination of the two.

00:29:18.260 --> 00:29:21.620

Tom: So maybe it's just got privatized things in it.

00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:34.680

Tom: And none of this is really either leverages commentary on either the world or the direction that society might be going beyond a basic run of the mill.

00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:37.660

Tom: Look at the corporatization of everything.

00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:42.560

Tom: Here's a dystopia in which actually every the city is pretty nice.

00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:48.240

Tom: There are a few homeless people here and there, but for the most part, it's a pretty cool place to be.

00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:56.620

Tom: And anyone through crime or corporatism or whatever else can fulfill a rags to riches story.

00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:21.900

Tom: As I said, the story does go in a more interesting direction and politics kind of is brought into it, but not really because the character played by Keanu Reeves, and if this is a commentary on the anodyne nature of the majority of punk, I have to give them credit for that.

00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.100

Phil: What did you just say?

00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:55.620

Tom: I said, well, I have to finish this statement, but if Keanu Reeves' character is a commentary on the generally anodyne nature of punk, I do have to give CD Projekt Red credit for this because he is basically introduced as a maverick rockerboy, I think they're called, but basically an edgy, non-conforming rock star who is also a terrorist who is fighting against corporate power.

00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:11.380

Tom: But it's actually a revenge story, and he has a grudge, and he is basically just either on a revenge trip or a political nihilist in the misuse of the term as it is now used.

00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:37.800

Tom: So again, that's avoiding any sort of political commentary because even when you've got this supposedly dystopic vision of the future that is corporatism run wild to an unacceptable degree, you don't have some sort of ideologically driven terrorist attack on it that may or may not have a reasonable position to take a la Final Fantasy VII.

00:31:38.020 --> 00:31:43.620

Tom: No, he just wants to take revenge against people who have fucked him over or likes chaos.

00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:54.660

Phil: We're talking about the 2020 release of Cyber Punk 2077, which is available on Stadia, PlayStation 4, 5, Xbox One, Xbox Series X and Windows.

00:31:56.140 --> 00:31:58.480

Phil: CD Projekt Red is a Polish company.

00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.000

Phil: Yes, they are.

00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:05.440

Phil: They don't have strong English skills, as you can see from the Noclip documentary, which I will...

00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:08.160

Tom: I mean, you can tell from the ransomware note they wrote.

00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.320

Tom: And the English draw for it.

00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:11.380

Phil: That's right.

00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:13.920

Phil: Look, you know, since 2000...

00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:16.080

Phil: CD Projekt Red, I mean, we all think they're cool.

00:32:16.100 --> 00:32:25.760

Phil: They started Good Old Games, which is, you know, basically intellectual property, free downloading of old games.

00:32:25.780 --> 00:32:29.300

Phil: And, you know, they make old games work through, you know, various engines.

00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.820

Phil: And, you know, they have a good store if you want to play old games and own it.

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:37.680

Tom: And new games as well.

00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:39.140

Phil: And new games as well, obviously.

00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:39.900

Phil: Yes, I'm sorry.

00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:50.120

Tom: If you can get a game or if I can get a game at a similar price on GOG or Steam, I would usually go for GOG due to the lack of DRM.

00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:50.860

Phil: Absolutely.

00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.280

Phil: That's the initialism I was thinking of.

00:32:54.260 --> 00:32:58.380

Phil: But honestly, you know, as a game maker, all I've ever done is The Witcher.

00:32:58.840 --> 00:33:05.320

Phil: From 2007 through till today, Cyberpunk was the first game that they've made outside of The Witcher-iverse.

00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:06.920

Phil: Yes, that's what I said.

00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:20.420

Phil: And so to a certain degree, like, because they're interpreting everything through a broken English kind of world, The Witcher is a Polish intellectual property.

00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.180

Phil: So of course they're going to nail it, you know.

00:33:22.660 --> 00:33:44.580

Phil: But I would never presume, even though we live in a monoculture world where you're exposed to all sorts of, you know, Western influences, I would never presume to go into and make a Polish game or write a Polish book as a Westerner who doesn't speak Polish and think I'm going to have any success in terms of, you know, storytelling.

00:33:45.260 --> 00:33:57.720

Tom: I understand your point, but as I said, use of folklore in fantasy in an integrated manner is rare full stop.

00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:07.160

Tom: So if you want to give them the credit for doing that as artists, then that's the standard you should hold them to in whatever subject matter they use.

00:34:07.220 --> 00:34:10.200

Phil: Oh, hey, trust me, I'm not making an excuse for them.

00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:12.620

Phil: I'm arguing against their hubris.

00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:13.860

Phil: Yep.

00:34:14.180 --> 00:34:16.780

Phil: So, yeah, we're on the same page there.

00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:26.460

Tom: And we do have to get to one last defining characteristic of Cyber Punk that they totally dropped the ball on.

00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:36.680

Tom: And it's become, it was anyway on release for a long time, a massive joke among the Cyber Punk fandom.

00:34:37.940 --> 00:35:15.420

Tom: Because whenever anyone would complain about the lack of vagina models available to your character at the start of the game, or that there were only three different penis types and various things like that, and that when you get naked in the game, you're naked in the inventory screen, but without a mod in the actual game world, you're wearing underpants, and that there are a total of only four prostitutes in the entirety of the game, and only, I think, four people who you can romance and engage in sexual intercourse with.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:18.900

Tom: The response to this was, well, this is just insane.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:20.220

Tom: This isn't pornography.

00:35:20.380 --> 00:35:22.040

Tom: This is a cyberpunk game.

00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:24.220

Tom: Well, you fucking dimwit!

00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.460

Tom: Have you read a fucking cyberpunk novel?

00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:31.620

Tom: That's one of the defining characteristics of cyberpunk, is two things.

00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:34.520

Tom: One, transhumanism.

00:35:34.660 --> 00:35:41.120

Tom: And the term trans, as in transsexual, is related to transhumanism.

00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:45.500

Tom: So first of all, that should be a massive thing in character creation.

00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:53.240

Tom: And you should also be able to alter yourself after you've created your character to ridiculous degrees, which you can't do.

00:35:53.620 --> 00:36:12.120

Tom: And two, there should be a lot of fucking nudity and a lot of fucking fucking throughout the game because one of the defining differences between edgy science fiction that may be otherwise similar to cyberpunk science fiction is gratuitous sex.

00:36:13.580 --> 00:36:15.620

Tom: So it's just ridiculous.

00:36:15.640 --> 00:36:25.560

Tom: And people will come in claiming to be cyberpunk connoisseurs, whinging about people, wondering why this lacks this sort of stuff.

00:36:26.140 --> 00:36:39.000

Phil: Look, punk is punk, and ultimately this is a commercial product, but gratuitous sex and nudity is a component of any sort of punk, steampunk, punk, cyberpunk, you know, whatever you want to call it, donut punk.

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:49.020

Tom: And when you are of the anodyne variety who does not contain any sort of gratuitous sex, you will then put it in the name of your band to try and get away with it, e.g.

00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:49.940

Tom: the Sex Pistols.

00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:51.860

Phil: Yeah, there you go, or Dr.

00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:52.940

Phil: Zog's Sex Wax.

00:36:53.620 --> 00:36:55.220

Phil: I don't even know if they have that in other countries.

00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:13.300

Phil: Now, so, but ultimately, I think this game gets the most criticism because all they've ever done is The Witcher, and people are going into this thinking that this is going to be, you know, Cyber Witcher, and it's not.

00:37:14.740 --> 00:37:16.500

Phil: What could they have done differently?

00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:25.180

Tom: I think the main reason it has got so much criticism is because of how poorly they have handled it.

00:37:25.600 --> 00:37:47.120

Tom: Because this, while very amplified, because there was massive expectation amplified by how well they handled all the problems with The Witcher 3, a lot of the stuff that has gone wrong on Cyber Punk 2077 went wrong on The Witcher 3.

00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:53.880

Tom: And you can argue that it's gone worse to a high degree than it did in The Witcher 3.

00:37:54.060 --> 00:38:01.920

Tom: And outside of, in terms of gameplay, I don't think that's really true.

00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:09.520

Tom: But in terms of glitches and delays and that sort of thing, yes, Cyber Punk 2077 is probably a little bit worse.

00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:21.780

Tom: But the biggest difference is their PR team was absolutely incredible during the release and the following months and months of issues of The Witcher 3.

00:38:22.060 --> 00:38:25.640

Tom: Here, it has been a total and utter disaster.

00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.180

Tom: They said they were going to not do crunch.

00:38:30.040 --> 00:38:30.440

Phil: Twice.

00:38:30.460 --> 00:38:32.020

Tom: Low and behold, yet twice.

00:38:32.900 --> 00:38:56.400

Tom: Low and behold, when people started complaining about it taking so long, their response wasn't, we believe in creating art, and we are going to stick to one, respecting our workers and not forcing them to do crunch, which may delay things, but we have committed to this, and two, releasing the best possible vision we can.

00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:07.680

Tom: Instead, no, they gave up on not doing crunch and announced another release date, and they did this several times.

00:39:08.220 --> 00:39:21.220

Tom: Then they engaged in the sort of review bullshit that people will expect from other publishers, where you could only review the PC version and not the totally broken console versions.

00:39:23.620 --> 00:39:36.820

Tom: Then, once that has occurred, all they can come up with is announcing a generic refund statement for the console version, sorry, just a generic statement.

00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:51.880

Tom: And given the anger and how overly invested in the whole process a lot of fans were, people were assuming that this applied to PC as well in as easy a manner.

00:39:52.660 --> 00:39:54.200

Phil: You mean PlayStation 4?

00:39:55.940 --> 00:39:57.460

Tom: They announced a refund.

00:39:57.740 --> 00:40:05.020

Tom: They didn't go into details, but it was obviously aimed predominantly at PS4 and Xbox One versions.

00:40:05.740 --> 00:40:15.920

Tom: So that created confusion as to how that was working because the PlayStation and Xbox version of the games were essentially broken for many people.

00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:22.620

Tom: So it wasn't like it was just a glitchy game as the PC version was.

00:40:23.540 --> 00:40:54.740

Tom: So that then created confusion, and since then, they've been overhyping their patches, which are all just basic fixes of glitches, as if they're going to make pretty big changes and fixes to the games, which what they're saying isn't technically untrue, but given the hysterical nature of the community, they obviously need to be using really clear language about what they're doing, and they are not doing that at all.

00:40:56.220 --> 00:41:14.820

Phil: And the cherry on the top was when they threw their QA people, which are probably the lowest paid people in their whole system under the bus, going, well, you know, they didn't check it properly, we're the creatives up at the top of the pile, we assume these people down there are going to tell us when our game is shit.

00:41:15.540 --> 00:41:18.120

Phil: So yeah, it's been completely mismanaged.

00:41:18.220 --> 00:41:25.440

Phil: As you said, Witcher 3 and their technical problems, number one, they released it on PC first, didn't release it on the consoles.

00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:30.400

Phil: And so PC guys and gals, we're all experimenters.

00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:34.300

Phil: We expect a little bit of this and that to and fro.

00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.040

Phil: We've all got different systems.

00:41:36.060 --> 00:41:37.720

Phil: Of course, it's not going to run perfectly.

00:41:38.620 --> 00:41:43.880

Phil: Work through your problems, and then after about a year and a half to two, then you release it on a console.

00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:55.960

Phil: I mean, hell, Witcher 3 came to Switch last year, you know, and this time they just went with selling it through, you know, to every format.

00:41:55.980 --> 00:42:01.780

Phil: And that's the hubris that got them into trouble, thinking that, oh, well, we got away with this before.

00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:02.580

Phil: We can do it again.

00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:04.380

Phil: We're a bigger, more powerful company now.

00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:14.340

Phil: They shouldn't have released it for PlayStation 4, I'm sorry, for PlayStation 5 and the new Xbox, period, because those people just invested $800.

00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.340

Tom: I think those versions haven't been released yet.

00:42:16.700 --> 00:42:19.300

Phil: Well, that's it, but you can, yeah, you're right.

00:42:19.340 --> 00:42:25.500

Phil: I mean, you can play the backward compatible versions on your new system, which I think just increased the anger more.

00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:31.640

Phil: That's not their fault, but what amplified it was the fact that they released a broken game for consoles.

00:42:32.180 --> 00:42:37.480

Phil: Then people are paying it for the, you know, playing these on their brand new consoles and getting angry by it.

00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.980

Phil: Thinking, well, if my new console that I spent $700 on isn't as good as a PC, then what am I doing?

00:42:44.520 --> 00:42:48.740

Phil: You know, there's lots of factors here, but the bottom line is they've screwed up.

00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:50.720

Phil: They don't deserve any breaks.

00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.880

Phil: This was completely foreseeable given it was their first venture away from The Witcher.

00:42:57.580 --> 00:43:03.600

Phil: Ultimately, from what I'm hearing you say, this isn't a very good game at all at the end of it anyway.

00:43:03.980 --> 00:43:06.480

Phil: But worth playing, but just not a good game.

00:43:07.520 --> 00:43:21.080

Tom: Yes, this is where things get interesting though, because if we go into it, expecting this to be using a punk analysis, the Dead Kennedys, we're going to be tremendously disappointed.

00:43:21.640 --> 00:43:45.220

Tom: If we go into it expecting it to be Green Day, then I think as far as the characters and the narrative are concerned, particularly a la The Witcher 3, in the side quest, I think there is a lot to enjoy, and it ends up being very engrossing.

00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:50.940

Tom: The way they handle the main character is really impressive.

00:43:51.640 --> 00:44:17.860

Tom: They manage to give you enough customization options, and I think that you being able to choose what the origin story, and while it only affects the one or two hour introduction to the game, that's enough to make you more interested in the character as simultaneously an avatar for you that you've created, as well as a character in the world.

00:44:19.060 --> 00:44:34.340

Tom: The Keanu Reeves character is as wooden as every other Keanu Reeves performance ever, but in a good way, as in many of his performances, and as a comical foil for the protagonist, it works really well.

00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:55.700

Tom: And the enjoyment of going around the world, like in The Witcher 3, and encountering eccentric and silly characters that take you on an amusing and sometimes almost moving short story is there to the same degree as it is in The Witcher 3.

00:44:56.260 --> 00:45:16.060

Tom: And in the background, there is the main quest that, like in The Witcher 3, as opposed to the vastly superior Final DLC where they did a main narrative superbly, the main narrative is there just to point you in a direction basically.

00:45:16.720 --> 00:45:36.480

Tom: And that actually works well in a game like Cyber Punk 2077 or The Witcher 3, because it then does not get in the way of you going through the side quests and being properly introduced to the characters, including characters that are related to the main story.

00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:47.860

Tom: And the romance stories in it so far are handled really well and better than any romance stories in other games that I've played.

00:45:47.880 --> 00:46:00.040

Tom: An example of this, which a lot of people are annoyed about, but I think is absolutely hilarious, is the people you're trying to romance are not all pansexual.

00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:09.000

Tom: So if you're playing as a male V, then characters who are not interested in men aren't going to be interested in you.

00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:18.280

Tom: But you can still play through the quest trying to seduce them and be rejected in a number of hilarious ways.

00:46:18.300 --> 00:46:18.920

Tom: It is brilliant.

00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:19.780

Phil: That's very Polish.

00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.440

Phil: That's very Eastern European.

00:46:22.080 --> 00:46:22.480

Phil: Yes.

00:46:23.540 --> 00:46:33.740

Phil: I've got some stories to tell you off the show with my interactions with a Russian woman a few months ago who had some insights on this very topic.

00:46:36.300 --> 00:46:43.980

Tom: So that that is to me the biggest appeal of The Witcher 3 is there and as good as The Witcher 3.

00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:53.100

Tom: And this is going to be a very controversial statement, but I find, and again, a lot of this is due to the input you have in creating the character.

00:46:54.640 --> 00:47:16.040

Tom: V, the protagonist, to be much more compelling and interesting than Geralt, or however it's pronounced, because he was basically a, if we're being honest, really generic, almost Conan-esque, smart-mouthed action hero sort of character.

00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:18.220

Tom: In the romances, he wasn't.

00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:26.340

Tom: And in a couple of the side quests, there were really interesting frailties to the character and a more human side.

00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:36.520

Tom: But through his interactions in the majority of the game, no, he was just cracking jokes and being a smart-ass.

00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:52.900

Tom: The protagonist in this, there is witty banter between Yu and Keanu Reeves' character, but her interactions with most of the world or his, depending on how you're playing it, are much more nuanced the entire time.

00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:59.080

Tom: And it's like the interesting part of Geralt all the time, as opposed to just in certain sections.

00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:12.200

Tom: And so far for me, there's a much higher consistency in the quality of the narrative, narratives of the PsyQuest as well, compared to The Witcher 3.

00:48:12.520 --> 00:48:14.860

Tom: So as long as you don't go...

00:48:15.780 --> 00:49:03.380

Tom: Once you get over the fact that they haven't done the interesting thing of, despite it being a blockbuster massive thing, doing something interesting with their subject matter, once you get over the fact they haven't done that, like they did in The Witcher 3, in many ways, narratively, it is better than The Witcher 3, and aesthetically, other than some ridiculously simplistic traffic and NPC behaviour, the world is a really rich and enjoyable to drive around and explore Cyberpunk setting as well, in the same way that The Witcher 3 world was enjoyable just to wander around in.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:16.980

Phil: We've got a billion other games that we both thoroughly enjoyed, I believe, to talk about beyond Cyberpunk, but I have two questions for you, and then you can give us our closing thoughts.

00:49:17.640 --> 00:49:33.440

Phil: Do you think they would have been, A, do you think they would have been better off doing a GTA-style open world game, and B, do you think they're capable of doing that, given the range of, you know, driving, shooting and all the rest of it?

00:49:34.160 --> 00:49:50.240

Tom: I think they were smart and did not do that, because when you look at GTA-style games, what other than Saints Row has done that in a way that is as enjoyable as Grand Theft Auto?

00:49:50.260 --> 00:49:50.520

Phil: None.

00:49:51.580 --> 00:49:52.180

Tom: Exactly.

00:49:52.860 --> 00:50:06.420

Tom: And the games that do that really well, that people enjoy as a polished experience, like, for example, Sleeping Dogs, or God forbid, some people say Yakuza.

00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:08.300

Phil: Or Far Cry.

00:50:10.700 --> 00:50:12.940

Tom: Far Cry, I think, is more in the Stalker mold.

00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:22.320

Tom: I think you have to give Stalker credit for them building on that after the original Far Cry.

00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:22.920

Phil: Fair enough.

00:50:24.020 --> 00:50:27.920

Phil: But it's probably smart for them to avoid the take to...

00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:46.040

Tom: Anyone who has done that properly, I mean, that has done that successfully, as much shit as this has got for not having police chases and things like that, have avoided attempting to do Grand Theft Auto and done something interesting with a slightly different take on it.

00:50:46.080 --> 00:51:05.580

Tom: And this is building much more on Metal Gear Solid 5, and this is the other area where I argue there is an incredible improvement on Witcher 3, and that is in the combat and basic gameplay loop.

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:31.580

Tom: Where it is not necessarily as good as the Witcher 3 in terms of the combat is in the leveling system, but you can still do some really interesting stuff and also a lot of the skills they give you don't really affect how you play, like the hacking stuff and things like that, other than super overpowered things where you basically kill everyone in the level by releasing a virus.

00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:43.980

Tom: Using hacking or not using hacking other than when you're overpowered or basic things like knowing where enemies are really has no effect.

00:51:44.180 --> 00:51:52.660

Tom: So it's basically just a first person shooter with RPG elements that affect how much damage you do and your armor and things like that.

00:51:52.800 --> 00:52:02.780

Tom: But that's one area where it is interesting as an RPG, because you can come up with kind of ridiculously broken builds in a fun way.

00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:10.080

Tom: Like I said, you can do a ridiculously overpowered hacking build where you can kill everything in a level by releasing a virus.

00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:21.740

Tom: You can also do things like stack damage multipliers, so that your critical hits will do several times more damage than any enemy in the game has.

00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:40.940

Tom: And that, to me anyway, in a first-person shooter makes it enjoyable, because if you're stacking stealth stats for hitting people from stealth, as well as headshots, it adds a layer of skill, because you have to be stealthy and get headshots, and then you're rewarded with an instant kill.

00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.040

Tom: And if you don't do that, then you get into trouble.

00:52:44.600 --> 00:52:46.980

Tom: So that sort of stuff is a lot of fun.

00:52:47.420 --> 00:53:05.900

Tom: But more importantly, the way the world is constructed is very much like Grand Theft Auto, where it's an open world with, in the open world, there are various miniature sort of dungeons that you run into, many of which you can totally ignore if you want.

00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:12.000

Tom: And you go through these dungeons using stealth or however you want to approach it.

00:53:12.640 --> 00:53:40.300

Tom: And they're little mini levels that combined with the relatively satisfying gunplay that you can make really satisfying if you stack skills like I have, it ends up actually being an enjoyable experience as a game in terms of combat, which The Witcher 3 was not for me at any point, including after they altered the control scheme.

00:53:40.940 --> 00:53:44.740

Phil: I've got to say after upgrading my PC, I did the usual things.

00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:56.100

Phil: I played Crysis, I went into Witcher, and it's nice to be able to go into games and put everything on Ultra and just put them through their paces.

00:53:56.620 --> 00:54:03.520

Phil: And playing Witcher on Ultra, admittingly it's an old game, yeah, it looked pretty shaky.

00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:10.820

Phil: I mean, it looked less than last gen video games in terms of certain aspects of it.

00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:28.800

Phil: So I forget my point, but in terms of, that's right, in terms of Witcher, actually playing it, it wasn't a fully enjoyable game, but I was more engaged with the world than I was with the characters or the gameplay.

00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:31.560

Phil: As you said, the fighting let me down.

00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:37.700

Phil: So is the Die of Destiny ready here, or have you got more?

00:54:37.720 --> 00:54:42.660

Tom: No, I have not finished it yet, so the Die of Destiny will have to wait.

00:54:42.680 --> 00:54:44.140

Phil: Wait, okay, very good.

00:54:44.140 --> 00:54:45.420

Tom: Did you have another question?

00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:51.960

Phil: Ultimately, it sounds to me like it's interesting enough if you have a PC to play it.

00:54:53.040 --> 00:54:56.620

Phil: It's still a very full price game though, I imagine.

00:54:57.620 --> 00:55:00.040

Tom: Yes, I believe it is, but if you...

00:55:00.060 --> 00:55:09.940

Tom: And I should add, because I got this as a physical copy from a pre-order when it was, I think, about 25% off.

00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:16.700

Tom: And I calculated correctly that even with the atrocious launch, it still hasn't really been going down in price.

00:55:16.740 --> 00:55:30.540

Tom: But as with all prior CD Projekt Red releases, the physical version is absolutely worth getting, even at a little bit over what...

00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:35.220

Tom: I mean, it was actually 25% cheaper than what you would pay for the digital version.

00:55:35.460 --> 00:55:44.540

Tom: But even if you have to pay more than the digital version, just a little bit, it is worth getting, as with all prior CD Projekt Red releases.

00:55:44.720 --> 00:55:47.240

Phil: And that's because of the extras involved?

00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:48.140

Tom: Yes, yes.

00:55:48.520 --> 00:56:08.720

Tom: It had postcards from the setting, a quality map, a lore book, a reversible cover, which works better than many reversible covers, given the fact that it reverses between a male and female V.

00:56:09.260 --> 00:56:16.080

Tom: And I think some other things that I can't recall right now, but it was, all of those things were extremely well produced.

00:56:16.160 --> 00:56:27.000

Phil: Okay, I don't know why they'd include a book about the lore in there, but anyway, but you know, maybe when we're talking about Space Court, that would have been more relevant if they'd include a lore book.

00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:35.260

Phil: But all right, well, it sounds good, but like, is a physical copy as useless as any other physical copy in that you put it into your computer and then you download 200-

00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.700

Tom: Oh, well, that reminds me, that reminds me.

00:56:37.720 --> 00:56:45.520

Tom: Actually, one of the best things about it was it features a two-disc set of the OST.

00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:46.820

Phil: Oh, okay, very good.

00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:49.860

Phil: So it's got some actual useful discs in it.

00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:51.200

Tom: Yes, it does.

00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:58.560

Tom: And the code for the game came on a credit card like Scratchy.

00:56:58.720 --> 00:56:59.420

Phil: Oh, that's cool.

00:57:00.380 --> 00:57:01.640

Phil: Yeah, yeah, that's cool.

00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:07.980

Phil: Okay, well, Cyber Punk 2077 will go scoreless for this episode.

00:57:08.460 --> 00:57:21.920

Tom: Just remembered something hilarious, which perfectly epitomizes the utter failing of Cyber Punk 2077 of using the genre as it was intended to be.

00:57:22.580 --> 00:57:41.820

Tom: One of the other interesting themes in Cyber Punk, as opposed to most sci-fi, is that the protagonists and characters, not necessarily the protagonists, but always characters in it, there are always characters featured in extremely low-paid jobs.

00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:49.580

Tom: For example, many of the characters in Cyber Punk are working as pizza delivery men and things like that.

00:57:49.980 --> 00:57:55.780

Tom: And I don't know if you've heard of this thing known as the Gig economy and the company called Uber.

00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:56.700

Phil: Yep, I've heard of them.

00:57:57.320 --> 00:57:58.020

Tom: Yep.

00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:05.360

Tom: Seems like a pretty obvious thing to be integrating into your story there.

00:58:05.380 --> 00:58:15.680

Tom: But alas, no one is delivering anything except for as parts of important, organized crime heists, unfortunately.

00:58:16.520 --> 00:58:17.660

Phil: It's a lost opportunity.

00:58:19.700 --> 00:58:23.320

Tom: But speaking of crime, Space Court.

00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:28.000

Phil: Yes, Space Court, it's a video game for the PC only, I think.

00:58:29.500 --> 00:58:31.960

Phil: It's exactly spelt as you would think, two words.

00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:34.660

Phil: It's published by a company called Uphill Productions.

00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:38.060

Phil: And from what I can tell, this is their first and only game so far.

00:58:40.160 --> 00:58:47.960

Phil: And it's in the realm of, I'd say 386, 286 type graphics, if you think of early...

00:58:47.980 --> 00:58:49.540

Tom: 486, I'd say.

00:58:49.680 --> 00:58:50.920

Phil: What did I say, 386?

00:58:51.020 --> 00:58:51.280

Phil: Oh, nah.

00:58:51.300 --> 00:58:53.200

Tom: 386 or 286.

00:58:53.220 --> 00:58:54.560

Phil: Yeah, no, it'd be 386.

00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:12.040

Phil: If you think of Space Quest on the 286, but with full color, not full color, but probably, I'd say, 16 range color, then this game would have been achievable, I think, on a 286.

00:59:12.060 --> 00:59:14.800

Phil: And that's why I said 386, because the colors weren't there.

00:59:15.100 --> 00:59:18.900

Phil: Because on 286, you were limited to like cyan and purple, black and white.

00:59:19.620 --> 00:59:21.480

Phil: And this is a full range color game.

00:59:22.620 --> 00:59:28.040

Tom: Given the detail involved and some of the animation, I'm still going to go with 486.

00:59:28.060 --> 00:59:28.760

Phil: Yep, fair enough.

00:59:28.920 --> 00:59:36.840

Phil: From a computational perspective, but I think from an aesthetic, it harkens back towards those earlier PC platforms.

00:59:38.260 --> 00:59:39.080

Phil: Would you not agree?

00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:49.260

Phil: Yep, and it's a game that takes place in a single screen, which used to be important back in the day, is how many screens a game had.

00:59:50.700 --> 01:00:00.680

Phil: Essentially, if I'm getting the story correctly, you are an innocent bystander who has been made a judge of a court.

01:00:01.660 --> 01:00:07.820

Tom: The judges in this Galactic Empire are drafted a la jurors.

01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:08.680

Phil: Yeah, yep.

01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:10.380

Phil: So all of a sudden you're a judge.

01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:14.760

Tom: And there also appears to be no jurors, by the way, so that may be why.

01:00:14.780 --> 01:00:16.400

Phil: Yep, and quick fire.

01:00:16.700 --> 01:00:22.460

Phil: These people will come before you with their cases, and you basically have to rule on them.

01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.080

Phil: It's a pretty short game.

01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:29.300

Phil: I think it's less than two hours, possibly slightly more than two hours.

01:00:30.220 --> 01:00:36.280

Tom: I believe it took me 79 minutes or less.

01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:39.120

Phil: I think it took me like an hour and 20 minutes or something like that too.

01:00:39.140 --> 01:00:41.060

Phil: So we're about the same place.

01:00:43.140 --> 01:00:44.140

Phil: What did you think of it?

01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:46.120

Tom: I thought it was great.

01:00:47.040 --> 01:00:53.760

Tom: Basically, the people coming before your court are a variety of aliens.

01:00:53.780 --> 01:01:12.780

Tom: I'm not sure if that's necessarily the right term given that it is a Galactic Court, but denizens of different planets under your rule of law as a Galactic Empire judge with their grievances which are related to each other's activities.

01:01:14.520 --> 01:01:30.760

Tom: For example, there is an alliance between a very aggressive planet and a more peaceful planet who share the spoils of the pillaging and looting of the aggressive planet.

01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:50.900

Tom: And there is an orc-like species which is running into difficulties with a water-inhabiting octopus or jellyfish, rather like species, as they are all of a sudden stuck together on the same planet.

01:01:51.040 --> 01:01:55.740

Tom: And you have to try and resolve these issues.

01:01:55.800 --> 01:02:08.480

Phil: So as they come before you, you'll be given an option, usually three or four choices, to respond in terms of your dialogue, which will determine how the court case goes.

01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:17.360

Phil: And to me, I found that the writing was pivotal in this.

01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:21.500

Phil: You know, some of the animations of the characters, the simple animations, are fine.

01:02:21.720 --> 01:02:27.680

Phil: I don't think any of the characters were particularly drawn well outside of the genre.

01:02:27.700 --> 01:02:28.980

Tom: I think they managed to be huge.

01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:29.960

Phil: Yeah, very, very...

01:02:30.180 --> 01:02:30.960

Tom: And endearing.

01:02:31.100 --> 01:02:34.760

Phil: And they got the point across, but the key to me was the writing.

01:02:37.040 --> 01:02:40.640

Tom: I think Special Mention should also go to the music, though.

01:02:41.520 --> 01:02:41.860

Phil: Yes.

01:02:41.940 --> 01:02:59.300

Tom: Because it managed to capture that overly amplified feeling of 486 or 386 music in games without it being quite as annoying as they actually were.

01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:04.360

Phil: And the game certainly has, because of the single screen, has that pantomime quality to it.

01:03:05.240 --> 01:03:15.940

Phil: It's the sort of thing that you could imagine if translated into the language of the times, you know, appearing on a stage in the 1800s and people just gobbling it up.

01:03:16.120 --> 01:03:22.860

Phil: And like, you know, if you had the dialogue choices on a chalkboard or a piece of canvas that...

01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:23.860

Tom: Just change...

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:24.560

Tom: very simple.

01:03:24.620 --> 01:03:35.760

Tom: Just change the people in it from being different species in a galactic empire to different savages in a colonial empire.

01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:36.720

Tom: Perfect.

01:03:36.740 --> 01:03:49.160

Phil: And if you're doing a stage show and then all these choices unfurl on a piece of canvas and the crowd yells out, you know, one or two or three, you know, and then the actor's actually engaged, this completely works.

01:03:49.180 --> 01:04:04.820

Phil: I mean, this is a very low-tech game in terms of its implementation because what it relies on is its storytelling dialogue, its stereotypes, and because they're in a galactic realm, they're funny, they're not offensive.

01:04:05.520 --> 01:04:10.860

Phil: I'd find them funny if they were not in an intergalactic theme, but it's just really well done.

01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:22.240

Phil: I got to the end of the game thinking that this would be a three act game, that, okay, yep, we've resolved these, you know, these two or three cases, and what are they going to serve me next?

01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:25.660

Phil: And sadly, the game ended at that point.

01:04:26.060 --> 01:04:30.080

Phil: So, you know, I credit the game for its value.

01:04:30.100 --> 01:04:31.920

Phil: It's like $2.50.

01:04:32.180 --> 01:04:34.400

Tom: And honestly, I think it's $4.00.

01:04:34.420 --> 01:04:36.220

Phil: Yeah, $4.50.

01:04:36.520 --> 01:04:42.800

Phil: I got it for free because I traded in all my trading cards on Steam because I was just sick of seeing them.

01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:46.080

Phil: So I sold them all and, you know, I got the game for free.

01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:51.680

Phil: It was kind of a goal for me as I moved through selling off all my trading cards on Steam.

01:04:53.080 --> 01:04:56.160

Phil: And, yeah, I was really well pleased with this game.

01:04:56.200 --> 01:04:57.220

Phil: I thought it was great.

01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.840

Phil: I'd give it probably an 8 out of 10.

01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:06.580

Phil: I think it's not the sort of game that supports downloadable content.

01:05:06.640 --> 01:05:10.540

Phil: I don't think there's going to be additional, you know, rounds of content for this game.

01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:16.340

Phil: But for the people or persons who were responsible for it, you know, keep going, please.

01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:18.240

Phil: It was very enjoyable.

01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:21.140

Phil: And did you turn me on to it, or did I turn you on to it?

01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:24.500

Tom: You turned me on to it.

01:05:24.520 --> 01:05:26.980

Phil: Yeah, I think you asked if it was a work simulator, which...

01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:28.440

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:05:28.560 --> 01:05:29.260

Phil: You think it is?

01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:30.580

Tom: It absolutely is, yes.

01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:33.680

Phil: It doesn't have the rituals of a work simulator?

01:05:34.620 --> 01:05:35.260

Tom: It does.

01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:41.720

Tom: Every day, they come to you with their problems and whining, and you have to give them answers.

01:05:42.200 --> 01:06:06.040

Tom: We should add in terms of gameplay, there is a trust meter that each representative of each planet has, and you obviously need to have that as high as possible, but you have to be balancing that with trying to work out what the best solutions, as you see, fit out of the problems.

01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:10.000

Tom: So that's how the gameplay is interesting.

01:06:12.040 --> 01:06:29.820

Tom: And to be able to tell them what to do at the end, so that it ends with whatever solution you come up, you have to have their trust level at a certain amount for them to actually put their faith in you and do what you advise.

01:06:30.680 --> 01:06:35.140

Phil: The game is only available on Steam or Gamejolt.

01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:39.800

Phil: It's not available on itch.io, to which we owe much.

01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:45.460

Phil: But yeah, certainly well worth playing and experiencing.

01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:48.140

Phil: You can get it on Steam for $2.99.

01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:51.600

Phil: It's got an average rating of 9 out of 10.

01:06:51.620 --> 01:06:56.680

Phil: Yeah, a thoroughly innovative and enjoyable game.

01:06:57.060 --> 01:06:58.200

Phil: Certainly very brave.

01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:06.800

Phil: And I hope that the developer uphill, you know, sticks with it and brings us something else as well.

01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:15.940

Phil: I'm imagining, I hope that they don't just do a derivative type King's Quest type game, because obviously Space Court...

01:07:16.040 --> 01:07:17.560

Tom: A medieval King Court.

01:07:17.580 --> 01:07:18.440

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:07:18.600 --> 01:07:19.680

Phil: I mean, maybe, I mean...

01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:23.880

Tom: Well, a King Court could in fact be a totally different sort of court.

01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:26.440

Phil: Yeah, we can only hope for a Space Court 2.

01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:32.560

Tom: But I think one of the most original and brave things about it was how short it was.

01:07:32.580 --> 01:07:34.320

Tom: And I wasn't expecting it.

01:07:35.020 --> 01:07:37.040

Tom: It was perfectly self-contained.

01:07:37.460 --> 01:07:43.480

Tom: Everything in the story, well, at least how I entered it, was well resolved.

01:07:44.740 --> 01:07:59.400

Tom: The arc of you and your interactions with your boss, who hilariously at the end where the shit is about to hit the fan, takes sick leave and runs off, are all resolved.

01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:05.920

Tom: And the character arcs of the other characters as well are nicely resolved as well.

01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:15.580

Tom: I think as a flash fiction, it works perfectly and it doesn't give you any bullshit of trying to set up anything, any sort of sequel or DLC or anything like that.

01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:27.320

Tom: I think one of the best things about it was that it managed to be a really short, really satisfying story that ended as well as it started and was perfectly satisfying, for me anyway.

01:08:27.340 --> 01:08:31.940

Phil: Yeah, definitely, unlike Coffee Talk, which we might get to later on.

01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:36.720

Phil: But okay, so is The Die of Destiny ready for this one?

01:08:36.740 --> 01:08:37.540

Phil: You did finish it.

01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.120

Tom: We have to get into spoiler territory about the ending.

01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:41.920

Phil: Oh, do we though?

01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:44.040

Tom: Do we do that before or after The Die of Destiny?

01:08:44.060 --> 01:08:45.060

Phil: Do The Die of Destiny.

01:08:45.080 --> 01:08:48.580

Tom: Okay, your rating was an 8 out of 10, right?

01:08:51.440 --> 01:08:52.100

Phil: Sounds like a 6.

01:08:52.120 --> 01:08:56.960

Tom: The Die of Destiny is spoken, and it gets a 0 out of 10.

01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:00.280

Phil: So the, averaging it out...

01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:01.540

Tom: Oh, actually, no, hang on.

01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:02.040

Tom: I'm just...

01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:04.860

Tom: The dice can be a little confusing.

01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:07.460

Tom: No, 0 is a 10, I just realized.

01:09:07.540 --> 01:09:11.380

Phil: All right, so it's 18 divided by 2 is 9, so that's a 9.

01:09:11.740 --> 01:09:18.140

Tom: Having looked at some ancient bylaw on the dice, it turns out that 0 is a 10.

01:09:18.820 --> 01:09:23.640

Tom: So Space Court, 10 out of 10, giving it a total score of 18 out of 20.

01:09:24.400 --> 01:09:26.380

Phil: Yeah, 18 out of 20 or 9 out of 10.

01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.480

Phil: So, yeah, I can...

01:09:29.480 --> 01:09:30.340

Phil: I'm happy with that.

01:09:30.400 --> 01:09:31.320

Phil: I can grant it that.

01:09:33.580 --> 01:09:35.660

Phil: Now, spoiler territory...

01:09:37.300 --> 01:09:40.220

Tom: And I would recommend playing it without being spoiled.

01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:42.980

Phil: Oh, well, should we hold the spoiler to the end of the show?

01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:44.020

Phil: Talk about some other games.

01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:46.700

Phil: Yeah, because we don't want to spoil people.

01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:47.700

Phil: It's a $3 game.

01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:48.880

Phil: Go buy it, people.

01:09:49.660 --> 01:09:50.840

Phil: We know you've got a PC.

01:09:50.860 --> 01:09:52.540

Phil: You're listening to a podcast, so...

01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:57.120

Phil: Okay, so what's the next game on the list?

01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:00.540

Tom: Well, you did mention Coffee Talk.

01:10:01.240 --> 01:10:01.980

Phil: I did mention...

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:09.800

Tom: You also mentioned Not Tonight, but let's ignore all of those choices and go for The Medium, which was recently released.

01:10:09.820 --> 01:10:12.660

Tom: It's made by, I believe they're called Bloober Team.

01:10:14.360 --> 01:10:21.320

Tom: Who are famous for Layers of Fear and other first-person horror games.

01:10:21.340 --> 01:10:25.940

Tom: The Medium is interesting, and they are, I think, another Polish developer.

01:10:26.480 --> 01:10:29.980

Tom: They're certainly in Eastern Europe in any case, but...

01:10:30.400 --> 01:10:33.820

Tom: And the game is set in Poland, if I remember correctly, regardless.

01:10:33.940 --> 01:10:49.060

Tom: But The Medium, rather than being first person, is third person, and it plays not unlike old Resident Evil titles, minus the combat.

01:10:49.080 --> 01:10:56.940

Tom: So there are fixed cameras in the level that you move around from room to room, and that sort of thing.

01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:06.460

Tom: And the hook of the game is that you are a medium, and you can enter the spirit world, which splits the screen, which is interesting.

01:11:07.100 --> 01:11:17.100

Tom: One, as a gameplay mechanic, but two, they're an indie team, and this is obviously because the two worlds are actually different and have different things going on them.

01:11:17.440 --> 01:11:31.260

Tom: This is actually a massive technical undertaking, making it one, hot on the heels of Cyber Punk 2077, one of the hardest games you can run on PC today.

01:11:32.580 --> 01:11:34.800

Tom: And they make pretty good use of it.

01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:47.580

Tom: It's used in puzzles where you need to switch back and forth between the two worlds to do things that affect one layer and the other.

01:11:47.780 --> 01:12:03.000

Tom: For example, one of the things you can do in the spirit world is collect spirit energy, which you can then use to power electrical devices in the real world and things like that.

01:12:03.380 --> 01:12:15.640

Tom: I'm pretty early in the game, so that sort of stuff is really simple at this time, but it is nevertheless as an interesting wrinkle to the game play, and it's certainly aesthetically effective.

01:12:16.020 --> 01:12:55.840

Tom: The enemies in the game that are chasing you are in the vein of pans, labyrinths, and I don't know if there's a term for it, but that sort of monster design that is more like grimoire style demons than it is contemporary zombies or other gore based monsters that are much more based on diseases and mutations and mutilated bodies and that sort of thing, which makes for a so far rich experience aesthetically.

01:12:56.060 --> 01:13:00.020

Tom: The rendering of the Polish setting is great.

01:13:00.040 --> 01:13:17.980

Tom: It begins in those beautiful Eastern European blocks of flats, not the Soviet style ones, though many of them could be quite interesting, the ones built before that and from the 19th century.

01:13:18.140 --> 01:13:25.960

Tom: And you then move on in stark contrast to that to a Soviet resort town.

01:13:27.360 --> 01:13:29.560

Tom: So aesthetically, it's really enjoyable.

01:13:29.580 --> 01:13:38.420

Tom: In terms of gameplay, despite the wrinkle of the switching between worlds, it's really basic so far.

01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:42.840

Tom: There is no combat, and it doesn't seem like there will be any combat at any point.

01:13:43.240 --> 01:13:54.440

Tom: So the only time you are actually in danger of anything in the world is either when you're being chased or when you're encountering a swarm of insects, which are totally passive.

01:13:54.740 --> 01:13:59.240

Tom: So if you walk into them without any spirit energy, you'll be killed.

01:13:59.540 --> 01:14:02.300

Tom: If you collect some spirit energy, you can frighten them off with that.

01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:13.820

Tom: So you never really feel like you're in danger, which is kind of a problem for a horror game, because so far the chase sequences have all been totally scripted.

01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:20.000

Phil: Well, the last four games prior to this were survival horror games, of which this is also categorized.

01:14:20.020 --> 01:14:23.900

Phil: So never really feeling in fear is a problem.

01:14:24.640 --> 01:14:25.440

Tom: Yep, it is.

01:14:26.620 --> 01:14:37.320

Tom: But depending on how the game unfolds, it may not if the narrative goes in an interesting direction and the aesthetic remains of high quality.

01:14:37.340 --> 01:14:40.840

Tom: It certainly encourages me to continue playing.

01:14:41.720 --> 01:14:44.520

Phil: The prior game was Blair Witch.

01:14:48.220 --> 01:14:49.680

Phil: Is there any found footage?

01:14:50.180 --> 01:15:01.860

Tom: Well, I was about to mention, not unlike found footage, there is an interesting photo developing minigame mechanic that has been repeated in the game.

01:15:01.880 --> 01:15:18.180

Tom: So I assume it will actually be a mechanic that will continue through the game where you find undeveloped photographic paper, and you have to go through the process of developing it with the several sets of chemicals and exposure to light.

01:15:19.360 --> 01:15:39.900

Tom: So that is basically their main puzzle mechanic in it, and the way they have altered it in the two instances of it so far, so that you are having to figure things out, is in the first one you had to work out how the process worked full stop.

01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:45.400

Tom: In the second you had to arrange the chemicals yourself and do things like that.

01:15:45.700 --> 01:15:58.540

Tom: So I don't know how they can add more things to that to keep that being interesting as a puzzle to solve, but it is an interesting way of introducing a found footage style thing into the game.

01:15:58.540 --> 01:16:04.640

Phil: But long time listeners will know you are a sucker for any mechanic slightly related to photography.

01:16:06.040 --> 01:16:06.460

Tom: Absolutely.

01:16:08.400 --> 01:16:11.920

Phil: As we probably won't get to talk about in 1111, Memories Retold.

01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:19.160

Tom: But in spite of the lack of fear, it is an interesting beginning.

01:16:19.160 --> 01:16:25.460

Tom: But hopefully the horror elements will become a bit more extreme.

01:16:25.480 --> 01:16:39.640

Tom: And the one thing that gets in the way of the otherwise really engrossing setting and aesthetic is all the characters are voiced in English and speak with heavy American accents.

01:16:39.660 --> 01:16:40.080

Phil: Oh, God.

01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:47.300

Tom: The performances themselves are fine, but it just does not fit the setting at all.

01:16:48.080 --> 01:16:52.580

Phil: So if you have a single favourite thing about the game, what is it?

01:16:55.060 --> 01:17:21.400

Tom: I would say it is without question the setting, both in terms of the architecture and also it could go in a really interesting direction because it opens with stock footage from the Nazi occupation of Poland and also Poland before that, among other historical events.

01:17:22.640 --> 01:17:28.380

Tom: And as I said, it goes to a Soviet holiday setting.

01:17:28.580 --> 01:17:49.040

Tom: So if it integrates in a successful and interesting manner, political history into the horror, again, as I said, the aesthetic of the monsters like Pan's Labyrinth, and obviously Pan's Labyrinth was doing that, so there's a reasonable chance it will, then it could end up being quite an interesting experience.

01:17:50.280 --> 01:18:01.000

Phil: Apparently, according to Wikipedia, the whole thing was based on an actual hotel in Krakow, so they leaned heavily on what they knew.

01:18:01.240 --> 01:18:09.540

Phil: And then the audio, which you also say is really great, was done by the Silent Hill Dream Team.

01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:18.480

Phil: The Silent Hill composer did the music, and some of the voice actors and singers were also having worked on prior Silent Hill work.

01:18:19.180 --> 01:18:21.780

Phil: And Silent Hill is known for its audio design.

01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:23.300

Tom: Absolutely.

01:18:23.340 --> 01:18:29.180

Phil: Though I can't quite recall the soundtrack from it, but the audio design of...

01:18:30.120 --> 01:19:02.480

Tom: That's because it was good, and that's a serious statement because the thing that I, anyway, recall most about the Silent Hill soundtrack and the music is legitimately good, but the thing that sticks in my mind and overpowers everything else because it is what remains in the overall aesthetic, and is mostly integrated into it, is the percussion, which is an endless repeated theme like a heartbeat throughout.

01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.300

Phil: And I can thoroughly recommend Silent Hill.

01:19:06.620 --> 01:19:18.740

Phil: Any Silent Hill game you can dip into, please do, but Silent Hill Shattered Memories for me, which is probably one of the most hidden of all gems, was just a masterful game.

01:19:19.420 --> 01:19:23.260

Phil: And the people that worked on it went on to do great things.

01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:28.000

Phil: So this is just early impressions of The Medium.

01:19:29.900 --> 01:19:30.440

Phil: Is that right?

01:19:31.200 --> 01:19:31.460

Tom: Yep.

01:19:31.540 --> 01:19:34.720

Phil: And it's available only on Microsoft systems.

01:19:34.740 --> 01:19:48.100

Phil: So you can play it on Windows, which is probably the best way to go, or you can play it on Xbox Series X or S, which I assume means you can play it on any Xbox One game, unless it's only for the...

01:19:48.440 --> 01:19:51.140

Phil: No, it's only for the new consoles.

01:19:51.160 --> 01:19:56.500

Tom: Yes, it is most certainly a next-gen title, in terms of its look.

01:19:57.120 --> 01:20:00.380

Tom: As is Cyber Punk 2077.

01:20:00.420 --> 01:20:16.640

Tom: I think those, certainly on PC anyway that I've played, those are the two games that stand out aesthetically, in terms of technically what they're doing, as being, quote, next-gen, end-quote titles.

01:20:17.560 --> 01:20:32.180

Tom: Games previously, like Exodus, had elements in them that were like that, but in Cyber Punk 2077, the ray tracing effects and the level of detail in the characters is incredible as well, and the textures.

01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:43.140

Tom: But the way ray tracing transforms the total aesthetic in that game is absolutely a generational leap that affects everything visually.

01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:58.820

Tom: And The Medium, while by no means as spectacular as that, the way that the split screen is handled would not be possible, at least for an indie team anyway, on all the hardware.

01:21:00.860 --> 01:21:04.980

Phil: And I'll use out the worn out anecdote about what TV is.

01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:08.680

Phil: They call it a medium because it is neither rare nor well done.

01:21:10.500 --> 01:21:14.600

Phil: But perhaps the medium will wait and get a score from you on a future episode.

01:21:15.360 --> 01:21:19.340

Phil: One of the reasons I like talking to Tom Towers is his unique perspective.

01:21:19.580 --> 01:21:28.720

Phil: And certainly you can enjoy that at our website at gameunder.net where Tom, you've apparently read 425 books last year.

01:21:29.660 --> 01:21:30.480

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:21:30.540 --> 01:21:35.780

Phil: And covered this in two different articles at gameunder.net.

01:21:36.660 --> 01:21:43.660

Phil: Out of the 425 books, most of us probably read less than 10 books a year, if we're quote intellectual.

01:21:45.340 --> 01:21:46.500

Phil: So is there a sink?

01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:57.480

Tom: Well, some of the 66 books I've read so far this year would suggest that being an intellectual is a very, very bad thing indeed.

01:21:57.500 --> 01:21:58.180

Phil: I would agree.

01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:02.620

Tom: So I would recommend reading less than 10 books a year.

01:22:02.840 --> 01:22:04.300

Phil: I would certainly agree with that.

01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:11.800

Phil: And I'm sure our listeners would as well, because instead of reading those 66 books, we probably could have done 4 episodes of the podcast.

01:22:12.440 --> 01:22:18.500

Phil: Is there a single book that you wish to highlight out of the 425 as a must read for our listeners?

01:22:20.500 --> 01:22:29.280

Tom: Well, we were talking about aesthetics, so I would have to recommend two I'm going to go with.

01:22:29.780 --> 01:22:33.520

Tom: One is the Red Book by Carl Jung.

01:22:33.820 --> 01:22:41.500

Tom: And Jung is famous, of course, as being the greatest psychologist not known as Freud.

01:22:42.760 --> 01:23:01.420

Tom: I assume that's how most people know him, but his towering achievement, which obliterates anything Freud has done, is a visionary illuminated manuscript called the Red Book, and it is absolutely gorgeous.

01:23:02.240 --> 01:23:10.880

Phil: Not to be confused with the Little Red Book or the Red Book Carr Research price guide.

01:23:11.940 --> 01:23:22.780

Tom: The Little Red Book I would also recommend, but better than that is Mao's poetry, which is surprisingly legitimately good.

01:23:23.140 --> 01:23:25.640

Phil: No poetry is legitimately good.

01:23:26.040 --> 01:23:28.380

Phil: I will go to my grave based on that.

01:23:29.780 --> 01:23:31.220

Phil: Who wrote the Little Red Book?

01:23:33.120 --> 01:23:33.580

Tom: Mao.

01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:36.760

Tom: You mean who compiled its content?

01:23:37.040 --> 01:23:38.100

Phil: Who actually wrote it?

01:23:38.500 --> 01:23:38.940

Phil: Mao did.

01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:46.820

Phil: I remain dubious.

01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:54.900

Tom: You can be skeptical of Mao's political achievements, but you can't be skeptical of his work as a warrior poet.

01:23:54.920 --> 01:24:02.160

Phil: Everyone listen up, because Tom read 425 books, so he's recommending The Red Book by Carl Jung.

01:24:03.940 --> 01:24:12.020

Phil: And what is it really, I mean, what is it, is it a theoretical study of some philosophy?

01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:14.140

Phil: What's it actually about?

01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:18.360

Tom: Well, it depends on what you mean by Bao.

01:24:18.380 --> 01:24:26.340

Tom: It's an illuminated manuscript illustrating his prophetic journey of self-discovery.

01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:30.620

Phil: Now, Jung said that to suit…

01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:32.720

Tom: It's basically religious art, essentially.

01:24:32.740 --> 01:24:38.020

Phil: Jung said himself, to the superficial observer, it will appear like madness.

01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:41.840

Phil: Is that hypercritical?

01:24:41.860 --> 01:24:45.560

Tom: I don't think that's accurate at all.

01:24:45.580 --> 01:24:47.080

Phil: So he's just self-deprecating.

01:24:48.420 --> 01:24:49.580

Tom: I think he's showing off.

01:24:51.200 --> 01:24:57.360

Tom: This is the era of occultism and naive art and automatic writing.

01:24:58.100 --> 01:24:59.960

Tom: So I think that's a statement showing off.

01:25:01.040 --> 01:25:02.340

Phil: I'm going to have to look into that.

01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:08.780

Phil: You are the king of the court here, so what's the next game we're going to be talking about?

01:25:09.540 --> 01:25:17.960

Tom: Well, given your statements on poetry, I'm going to recommend major poems by Jose Marti.

01:25:19.620 --> 01:25:22.060

Tom: The Cuban poet, which is...

01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:51.640

Tom: The poems themselves are exceptionally good, many of them anyway, but it is particularly notable given that he is nearly a whole generation before Rimbaud and others and is very much in that vein but significantly better and arguably has greater visionary imagery and more interesting juxtaposition of images as well.

01:25:51.660 --> 01:25:52.780

Phil: Doesn't he fall, though...

01:25:53.140 --> 01:25:54.800

Phil: He was a Cuban fellow, as I recall.

01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.160

Phil: Doesn't he fall more into that Mark Twain...

01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:01.400

Phil: Afro-like, you know...

01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:04.760

Phil: You know, I mean, really, it's just...

01:26:04.780 --> 01:26:06.000

Phil: He's a humorist, isn't he?

01:26:07.180 --> 01:26:07.460

Tom: No.

01:26:07.480 --> 01:26:10.000

Tom: I don't think he is.

01:26:10.940 --> 01:26:13.760

Tom: I think you must be thinking of another Jose Marte.

01:26:14.980 --> 01:26:15.920

Phil: Alright, fair enough.

01:26:16.200 --> 01:26:17.940

Phil: So where's Jose Marte from?

01:26:19.280 --> 01:26:19.760

Tom: Cuba.

01:26:19.780 --> 01:26:21.420

Phil: Okay, well, we're talking about the same guy.

01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:22.800

Tom: No, we're not.

01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:26.680

Phil: He was basically like a limerick kind of writer, you know.

01:26:26.700 --> 01:26:34.520

Phil: He had these short little quips, you know, that we go, oh, yeah, okay, you know, aphorisms and truisms and witticisms.

01:26:34.760 --> 01:26:35.620

Phil: I mean, it wasn't...

01:26:35.740 --> 01:26:36.680

Tom: When was he from?

01:26:36.700 --> 01:26:39.200

Tom: When is this Jose Marte from?

01:26:39.220 --> 01:26:43.700

Phil: It's like the 1800s or something, like early 1900s maybe.

01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:46.320

Phil: I remember learning about him at uni.

01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:53.540

Tom: Well, he was also a politician and a warrior, a soldier, sorry.

01:26:53.560 --> 01:26:56.880

Tom: So he may have also written poetry like that.

01:26:57.140 --> 01:26:57.700

Phil: I don't know.

01:26:57.720 --> 01:26:59.000

Tom: For propaganda purposes.

01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:02.100

Phil: But Jose Marte...

01:27:02.120 --> 01:27:04.840

Tom: Look up the book, yes, correct.

01:27:04.980 --> 01:27:07.540

Tom: Look up the book major poems specifically.

01:27:08.440 --> 01:27:10.280

Phil: Okay, I'll look into that.

01:27:12.980 --> 01:27:15.500

Tom: I'm not recommending his other poetry.

01:27:15.780 --> 01:27:19.480

Tom: He may have also written Mark Twain style aphorisms.

01:27:20.020 --> 01:27:22.280

Phil: I'm just saying, man, that was my exposure to him.

01:27:22.300 --> 01:27:27.520

Phil: You know, he had these kind of, you know, whimsical humorous kind of things.

01:27:27.940 --> 01:27:31.620

Tom: That's also the sort of thing that would be highlighted in the university course.

01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:32.200

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:34.740

Phil: Especially one that's taught in America.

01:27:35.400 --> 01:27:37.640

Phil: Hey, speaking of Sky Child...

01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:43.940

Tom: Especially one that's taught in America when he was also a Cuban nationalist.

01:27:44.220 --> 01:27:48.420

Phil: Speaking of Sky Children of Light, is apparently...

01:27:48.620 --> 01:27:49.600

Tom: And nationalist.

01:27:49.620 --> 01:27:54.660

Phil: Still coming out for the Nintendo Switch in spring of 2021.

01:27:54.800 --> 01:27:58.100

Phil: And so that would be late this year, if you can believe it.

01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:02.100

Tom: And it is currently embroiled in a controversy.

01:28:02.120 --> 01:28:04.860

Phil: Well, yeah, if you can believe it, which I don't.

01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:06.140

Phil: So what's the controversy?

01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:13.000

Tom: Well, the controversy is that it refers to one of the hats in the current system.

01:28:13.020 --> 01:28:29.300

Tom: It refers to this season as being inspired by a sort of Chinese hat, which the Koreans who play Sky have taken great offense to because they believe that that hat style is an invention of Korea, sorry.

01:28:30.340 --> 01:28:33.700

Phil: Okay, so it has a big following in Korea then?

01:28:34.640 --> 01:28:37.220

Tom: It has a big following in both Korea and China.

01:28:39.420 --> 01:28:50.300

Tom: And this is one of those soft points in between countries that have had colonial interactions with one another, essentially.

01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:54.660

Tom: And thus share many cultural elements.

01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:59.860

Tom: And this then generates much debate over who invented said cultural elements.

01:28:59.880 --> 01:29:01.080

Phil: I'd love to see this hat.

01:29:02.080 --> 01:29:03.140

Phil: Is it kind of one of...

01:29:03.420 --> 01:29:06.080

Phil: I'm trying to think, is it like a Hasidic kind of hat?

01:29:06.100 --> 01:29:10.540

Phil: Like a big stovepipe hat that comes down and covers the ears?

01:29:10.780 --> 01:29:15.720

Tom: It is kind of like a big stovepipe hat, but it has a very wide brim.

01:29:16.180 --> 01:29:32.020

Tom: It's not unlike Mexican and Central American hats, not the sombrero, though somewhat similar to that, but more flat brimmed black hats that you see in Central America as well.

01:29:32.040 --> 01:29:33.180

Tom: I'm not sure what the term is for.

01:29:33.200 --> 01:29:34.100

Phil: I'm looking at the hat.

01:29:34.120 --> 01:29:35.220

Phil: This is not controversy.

01:29:36.180 --> 01:29:37.340

Phil: This is not a controversy.

01:29:37.360 --> 01:29:41.340

Phil: It's just basically like a cattleman's sombrero.

01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:43.840

Tom: It is a controversy.

01:29:44.020 --> 01:29:45.160

Phil: Well, I know it's a controversy.

01:29:45.180 --> 01:29:47.280

Tom: There are a lot of angry people in the game.

01:29:48.260 --> 01:29:53.440

Phil: Both sides are claiming cultural significance related to the cosmetic item and refusing to give an inch.

01:29:57.180 --> 01:30:01.980

Phil: It's meant to resemble a gat, which is a traditional Korean headgear.

01:30:03.420 --> 01:30:11.200

Tom: It's, according to Jenova Chan, meant to resemble a traditional Chinese hat, which is like that Korean hat.

01:30:13.160 --> 01:30:15.260

Tom: But is Chinese a legend?

01:30:15.280 --> 01:30:30.120

Phil: Chinese users quickly laid claim to the hat as a feature of their cultural heritage, both in game and on social media, echoing the large movement by Chinese nationalists to discredit Korean culture as stolen from China during the two regions' historical relationship.

01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:31.900

Phil: This is a big deal.

01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:36.960

Tom: And Jenova Chen has made a statement.

01:30:36.980 --> 01:30:43.380

Tom: He first of all apologized for any confusion and did confirm that it was inspired by the Chinese hat.

01:30:44.220 --> 01:31:06.040

Tom: And it's interesting that that article mentions Chinese nationalism, but my Korean friends in the game are very much approaching this as an issue of national identity and nationalism and a part of affirming Korea's place in the world as a nation.

01:31:06.440 --> 01:31:12.360

Tom: So I would suggest that it is evident of both Chinese and Korean nationalism.

01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:17.580

Phil: Well, I'm going to have to wait till spring, apparently, to find out about this and join you in...

01:31:19.260 --> 01:31:21.020

Phil: Children of Sky, Children of Light.

01:31:21.040 --> 01:31:30.820

Tom: And thank god none of anyone I know on Sky visits gameunder.net because I believe I referred to that hat as Peruvian.

01:31:30.960 --> 01:31:32.140

Phil: Ooh, you know what?

01:31:32.160 --> 01:31:32.740

Phil: You're right.

01:31:32.760 --> 01:31:34.040

Phil: That is a Peruvian hat.

01:31:35.420 --> 01:31:36.240

Phil: You're damn right.

01:31:36.260 --> 01:31:39.660

Tom: So, fuck China, fuck Korea.

01:31:39.780 --> 01:31:42.340

Tom: The last word is that hat is clearly Peruvian.

01:31:42.980 --> 01:31:45.260

Tom: And they have both China and Korea.

01:31:45.940 --> 01:31:55.560

Tom: Fucking imperial China, stealing cultures all over the world, and now today, culturally appropriating, traditional Peruvian culture.

01:31:55.580 --> 01:31:55.740

Tom: Yeah.

01:31:55.860 --> 01:31:56.580

Tom: Disgusting.

01:31:56.600 --> 01:32:06.760

Phil: And you'll remember, I spent a few years in Peru when I was trying to get that whole powder-coating solution worked out and almost had a major breakthrough.

01:32:07.620 --> 01:32:13.340

Phil: So, if there's someone who knows about Peruvian hats and speaks Peruvian, then it's me, you know?

01:32:13.580 --> 01:32:13.940

Phil: So...

01:32:14.940 --> 01:32:17.760

Tom: Would you like to give us a short sentence in Peruvian?

01:32:18.020 --> 01:32:18.940

Phil: Not at this time.

01:32:19.240 --> 01:32:29.200

Phil: But what I would like, since we're running out of time for this show, you mentioned to me earlier something about Sky Television's nationalist controversy.

01:32:29.220 --> 01:32:31.760

Phil: Do you want to dip into that while we're on topic, or do you want to go...

01:32:31.780 --> 01:32:32.580

Tom: What was Sky?

01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:33.820

Tom: I have no idea what that is.

01:32:33.820 --> 01:32:36.680

Tom: I was talking about Sky Children of Light's national...

01:32:36.700 --> 01:32:38.740

Phil: I thought it was a Sky TV type thing.

01:32:39.620 --> 01:32:43.880

Phil: Because, you know, when you think of Sky TV, you think of nationalist controversies, so...

01:32:45.400 --> 01:32:46.160

Phil: Well done, sir.

01:32:46.240 --> 01:32:47.100

Phil: Well played.

01:32:48.220 --> 01:32:50.620

Phil: All right, well, we've still got time here to talk about one game.

01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:53.580

Phil: So do you want to roll the die and see what we can talk about?

01:32:55.780 --> 01:32:57.180

Tom: Surely not tonight.

01:32:57.200 --> 01:32:58.720

Tom: Wait, no, that's from 2018.

01:32:59.000 --> 01:32:59.700

Tom: Coffee Talk.

01:33:00.320 --> 01:33:01.220

Phil: Coffee Talk.

01:33:01.760 --> 01:33:02.980

Phil: Which is a game by...

01:33:03.220 --> 01:33:06.120

Phil: I'm going to pronounce the company name three ways.

01:33:06.140 --> 01:33:07.040

Phil: It could be Toge.

01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:08.440

Phil: It could be Toge.

01:33:09.020 --> 01:33:10.080

Phil: Or it could be Togue.

01:33:10.300 --> 01:33:11.540

Phil: It's spelled T-O-G-E.

01:33:12.560 --> 01:33:13.420

Tom: It could be Tuge.

01:33:15.620 --> 01:33:17.420

Phil: They're an Indonesian-based developer.

01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:21.980

Phil: I listened to an interview with them prior to this.

01:33:23.380 --> 01:33:24.160

Phil: And good on them.

01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:25.900

Phil: I mean, Indonesia is a big country.

01:33:27.680 --> 01:33:37.820

Phil: And, you know, they're basically single-handedly developing a game development culture and community in Indonesia, which is to be credited.

01:33:38.460 --> 01:33:43.760

Phil: Coffee Talk, having played through it, I never would have assumed it was made in Indonesia.

01:33:44.960 --> 01:33:58.380

Phil: I was so interested by this that I went and played a game called A Space for the Unbound, which is made by the same company, and found it to be, you know, an interesting game.

01:33:58.400 --> 01:33:59.620

Phil: It is actually free.

01:33:59.660 --> 01:34:01.080

Phil: It's the prologue.

01:34:01.720 --> 01:34:02.920

Phil: It is free on Steam.

01:34:03.200 --> 01:34:10.320

Phil: And so if you look up A Space for the Unbound, for podcast purposes, just remember Unbound, you'll find it.

01:34:10.340 --> 01:34:11.580

Phil: It's the only free game on Steam.

01:34:13.460 --> 01:34:14.280

Phil: With that name.

01:34:14.640 --> 01:34:20.520

Phil: And yeah, so Coffee Talk is basically a work simulator.

01:34:21.380 --> 01:34:25.140

Phil: We both played that cyberpunk bartender game Valhalla.

01:34:26.500 --> 01:34:28.140

Phil: I believe you played that one, right?

01:34:29.040 --> 01:34:29.360

Tom: Yes.

01:34:29.460 --> 01:34:33.080

Phil: And basically it pretty much is identical to that.

01:34:33.100 --> 01:34:35.220

Phil: Oh, hello.

01:34:35.240 --> 01:34:37.540

Phil: Di of Destiny speaking prematurely.

01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:38.020

Phil: Is that a premature...

01:34:39.480 --> 01:34:40.860

Tom: Premature role there.

01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:42.600

Phil: Yeah, what was it incidentally?

01:34:43.460 --> 01:34:45.000

Tom: I think it was a one.

01:34:45.100 --> 01:34:45.940

Phil: Oh, okay.

01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:47.860

Phil: Well, we'll see if that improves along the way.

01:34:49.120 --> 01:35:11.400

Phil: So if you take Valhalla, which was the cyberpunk cocktail game where you had to memorize how to make certain cocktails to match your guest's taste and mood, Coffee Talk is pretty much the same thing set in a coffee shop with the aesthetic of the Netflix TV show or the NHK TV show Midnight Diner.

01:35:11.900 --> 01:35:17.080

Phil: Now, I talked about Midnight Diner, which if you have Netflix, please go and watch.

01:35:17.100 --> 01:35:18.300

Phil: The first season was great.

01:35:18.660 --> 01:35:19.700

Phil: Season 2 sucked.

01:35:21.500 --> 01:35:21.900

Phil: But I'm...

01:35:22.080 --> 01:35:23.480

Tom: What about the remake?

01:35:23.500 --> 01:35:28.100

Phil: Well, they have the Midnight Diner Tokyo Stories I haven't got into yet.

01:35:29.280 --> 01:35:31.140

Phil: But if you...

01:35:31.160 --> 01:35:37.240

Phil: Midnight Diner watched the first couple of episodes out of the first season, maybe the first four.

01:35:38.240 --> 01:35:44.500

Phil: But I was watching it season 3 last night, episode 7, and that one is amazing.

01:35:44.860 --> 01:35:57.020

Phil: Like, if you can go from season 1 of Midnight Diner and then just jump ahead to season 3, episode 7, you'll be greatly advantaged by missing season 2.

01:35:57.200 --> 01:35:59.020

Phil: So there is still some greatness there.

01:36:00.020 --> 01:36:08.800

Phil: So basically in that TV show and in Coffee Talk, you play the role of a nameless person behind the counter.

01:36:09.340 --> 01:36:11.820

Phil: People come in and tell you their stories.

01:36:12.960 --> 01:36:22.720

Phil: The main co-character, I guess, or co-protagonist is a writer for a newspaper who is writing her first fictional book.

01:36:23.340 --> 01:36:30.140

Phil: And surprise, surprise, it's based on the people who come to this coffee shop every night.

01:36:32.160 --> 01:36:45.200

Phil: And basically, it's set on planet Earth in Seattle, but it has a whole bunch of fantasy-type characters involved with it, fantasy and aliens.

01:36:45.200 --> 01:36:58.780

Phil: So basically, fantasy characters and aliens are living on Earth, and everyone's cool with that and normal with it, and basically treating these different species as if they were just different genders or different sexual preferences.

01:37:00.620 --> 01:37:11.780

Phil: And you go through basic learning, you know, who the different people are, what their various interactions are, and you can implement that in a very slight manner.

01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:19.980

Phil: Graphically, if you're familiar with the game Papers, Please, it takes its cue from that.

01:37:20.100 --> 01:37:22.120

Tom: It's certainly higher fidelity than that.

01:37:22.140 --> 01:37:23.640

Phil: Yeah, higher fidelity, certainly.

01:37:24.160 --> 01:37:25.280

Tom: But less charming.

01:37:25.300 --> 01:37:26.000

Phil: Less charming.

01:37:26.480 --> 01:37:34.080

Phil: And as a work simulator, you basically have to give these people different coffees based on what they ask for and their cues.

01:37:34.360 --> 01:37:38.000

Phil: And there's four or five different stages of that.

01:37:38.380 --> 01:37:42.080

Phil: And you're unlocking new recipes of coffees as you go.

01:37:42.700 --> 01:37:48.100

Phil: So the gameplay is memorization, pattern recognition.

01:37:48.860 --> 01:37:53.460

Phil: It's hard to screw up, or you can't screw up the actual implementation.

01:37:53.480 --> 01:37:59.300

Phil: It's more about screwing up the interpretation and memorization of what each character likes to drink.

01:38:00.180 --> 01:38:03.000

Tom: Or you can get the ingredients wrong or in the wrong order.

01:38:03.020 --> 01:38:03.520

Phil: That's true.

01:38:03.540 --> 01:38:07.260

Phil: And that's where I'd call the memorization component of it.

01:38:07.880 --> 01:38:16.120

Phil: It's not like there's an actual physical characteristic to it if you didn't press up at the right time or down at the right time, you know, or this or that.

01:38:18.980 --> 01:38:19.300

Phil: Yeah.

01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:22.700

Phil: So what were your impressions of the game and did you play it all the way through?

01:38:22.720 --> 01:38:48.820

Tom: Well, based on the numerous Indonesians on Sky who I know, I actually found it to be very Indonesian because many of them tend to be an interesting combination of the prevailing liberal expression in the Anglosphere.

01:38:49.180 --> 01:38:52.180

Tom: And we can't say the West because it is certainly different in France.

01:38:54.040 --> 01:39:07.120

Tom: Of everyone is really nice and polite and liberal in their toleration of others and that this should all be overtly done, etc.

01:39:07.140 --> 01:39:07.340

Tom: etc.

01:39:08.700 --> 01:39:25.160

Tom: But with in stark contrast, without necessarily having an aggressive issue with people who might diverge from this, much more conservative values on certain interactions.

01:39:25.180 --> 01:39:42.260

Tom: For instance, in this game which has very obvious anti-racist themes, there's an elf and a succubus dating much to the horror of their two families, as an example.

01:39:44.320 --> 01:39:56.900

Tom: But then you have the writer character who is, there's a certain scene there where everyone assumes she must be promiscuous, but in fact she isn't, and that's a good thing.

01:39:57.180 --> 01:40:25.500

Tom: And while it isn't explicitly suggesting that that's not necessarily a good thing, elsewhere there's also the astronaut, and learning how to date correctly, et cetera, et cetera, is very important, and I would argue presented in a more conservative manner than you would find in an American or English or Australian game with similar themes and setting.

01:40:27.620 --> 01:40:33.520

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's a very, correct me immediately if I'm wrong, it's a very politically correct game.

01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:37.200

Tom: Yep.

01:40:37.620 --> 01:41:03.300

Tom: But with that important difference, which is what I think gives it an Indonesian feel in that it is very socially liberal, yet in terms of its attitude and interaction with other people, yet in terms of its social values, it is also quite conservative, which makes for an interesting combination.

01:41:03.420 --> 01:41:28.000

Phil: It's a good combination because it has a realistic projection of these things, because otherwise you wouldn't have that conflict, you wouldn't have that fulcrum between even questioning whether something is right or wrong, because in our culture, you can't question these kinds of topics without being a complete racist, right?

01:41:28.240 --> 01:41:30.320

Phil: Or being judged as being a complete racist.

01:41:32.280 --> 01:41:37.260

Tom: I don't know, I think it depends on the games or stories.

01:41:37.280 --> 01:41:40.720

Tom: You would need to go on, get specific examples.

01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:53.620

Tom: And when you buy the same token, it's very easy to accuse political correctness of being racist as well in its approach to such matters.

01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:54.100

Phil: Of course.

01:41:54.420 --> 01:42:06.280

Tom: So I think the difference is by having two contrasting visions as the default, it automatically results in a greater level of nuance.

01:42:06.300 --> 01:42:06.880

Phil: Absolutely.

01:42:07.240 --> 01:42:18.800

Tom: But I think that nuance actually is there within either the right-wing vision of today or the liberal vision of today.

01:42:19.500 --> 01:42:29.000

Tom: It's just that it is ignored, other than as even as something to attack hypocritically, it's not really properly elaborated on.

01:42:29.020 --> 01:42:40.460

Tom: For instance, one of the critiques of things like, what's the term for conscious consent, is it?

01:42:40.480 --> 01:43:15.200

Tom: The thing where you're meant to constantly affirming consent in any affirming sexual interaction, or that regret in an interaction might constitute some form of sexual assault or rape, a common conservative critique of that is that this is hypocritical because it obviously is a position that is fundamentally viewing sex as a dangerous thing, yet simultaneously many people with those views are very sex positive elsewhere.

01:43:15.440 --> 01:43:33.780

Tom: But it's only approached as something to attack on the point of hypocrisy, not as an interesting juxtaposition of a single position that has a contradiction within it.

01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:42.260

Tom: That may indeed not be contradictory if you continue to explore that nuance, but it's only considered something to be attacked.

01:43:42.860 --> 01:43:47.960

Tom: And obviously, I don't mean that that's just a right-wing thing looking for that in the other side.

01:43:48.140 --> 01:43:49.800

Tom: Obviously that applies both ways.

01:43:50.200 --> 01:44:01.500

Tom: And then the only explanation for it is merely, well, this comes out of the sexual revolution without analyzing how that would actually lead to that.

01:44:01.740 --> 01:44:11.320

Tom: Beyond, well, actually people don't want to be promiscuous and everyone regrets sex that is not vindicated by society.

01:44:11.520 --> 01:44:13.740

Tom: Therefore, you have to adopt our views.

01:44:13.740 --> 01:44:19.280

Tom: And again, that's an example rather than meant to be highlighting one particular side.

01:44:21.280 --> 01:44:32.940

Tom: So I think if you are willing to take those, to explore these ideas in the Anglosphere, I think there is that level of nuance.

01:44:33.320 --> 01:44:43.000

Tom: But most critics and a lot of artists in how they want to express these things are less interested in doing that.

01:44:43.300 --> 01:45:08.660

Tom: If you were to take the same sort of content, the same sort of positions that are in Coffee Talk, and vulgarize them in the way that a lot of Anglosphere art does today, you would end up with something that is the same just with a slightly different juxtaposition of seemingly contradictory ideas to it.

01:45:09.020 --> 01:45:11.900

Phil: I mean, that is extremely well articulated.

01:45:12.020 --> 01:45:17.880

Phil: So we're talking about a visual novel game, single player, Coffee Talk.

01:45:18.040 --> 01:45:22.220

Phil: It's available on Windows, Mac, Switch, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One.

01:45:25.500 --> 01:45:47.280

Phil: Looking at the character of Neil, who is an alien dressed up like a NASA astronaut, who is basically coming down to the planet to impregnate as many women as he can, which is interesting, because he's not really a male or a female, but he's a...

01:45:48.520 --> 01:45:50.860

Tom: Or rather one, the correct one.

01:45:50.860 --> 01:45:51.240

Phil: Right.

01:45:52.100 --> 01:45:56.400

Tom: But to get there, he has to first work out how the mating rituals in humans works.

01:45:56.780 --> 01:46:02.980

Phil: So looking at the different characters though, I mean, you've got a young...

01:46:03.840 --> 01:47:01.880

Tom: And that, by the way, is a good example where if you are willing to not vulgarize something, just totally emphasizing contradictions, that it results in an interesting nuance because it reveals the potential problem with the prevailing view that is presented in the game, which is that obviously everyone should be tolerating one another, but ultimately it is a good thing, for example, that the writer is in fact not promiscuous, even though she seems to, yet simultaneously Neil is facing a problem where not having poor social skills, to be able to get to a point where he can successfully conform to this society's idea of sexual interaction, his only way to do that is by being promiscuous.

01:47:03.220 --> 01:47:12.680

Phil: Oh boy, you know, you could write a thousand essays on this game, but at the same time, I'm going to throw up there, is it not a simplistic kind of thing?

01:47:12.700 --> 01:47:23.080

Phil: Because you've got A, a plot line where you've got interracial relationship where both families disagree with the relationship.

01:47:24.180 --> 01:47:31.880

Phil: You've got Neil, who is someone who wants to be promiscuous, but is having trouble being promiscuous.

01:47:34.300 --> 01:47:42.340

Tom: Or wants to be monogamous, but can only become so through learning from promiscuous.

01:47:42.360 --> 01:47:54.660

Phil: And then you've got the only other major character arc that goes on is the father-daughter relationship where the daughter is some sort of pop star and he's looking out for her.

01:47:55.980 --> 01:47:58.900

Phil: So like these are very tired kinds of things.

01:47:58.920 --> 01:48:02.660

Phil: Other than Neils, the whole interracial thing, the whole...

01:48:02.700 --> 01:48:04.840

Tom: Which is also a big cliché.

01:48:05.580 --> 01:48:09.500

Tom: It's just usually more of a solely comical thing.

01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:10.320

Phil: Yeah, fair enough.

01:48:12.380 --> 01:48:15.460

Phil: But these are pretty tired tropes.

01:48:15.480 --> 01:48:26.440

Phil: So why would they be engaging to someone as, you know, engaged as you are in literature, such that you've read 425 books and 66 books this year?

01:48:28.940 --> 01:48:37.720

Tom: Well, as I said, I think being Indonesian offers an interesting take on those clichés.

01:48:38.220 --> 01:48:41.940

Tom: The only problem with the cliché is if the cliché is cliché.

01:48:42.820 --> 01:48:45.160

Phil: And there goes the Diadestiny again.

01:48:45.180 --> 01:48:46.400

Tom: Again, I just got excited.

01:48:46.420 --> 01:48:47.640

Phil: Another premature...

01:48:47.660 --> 01:48:48.880

Tom: That was up to a six.

01:48:50.180 --> 01:48:51.060

Tom: It's rising.

01:48:52.280 --> 01:48:55.000

Tom: Each role grows in force.

01:48:57.200 --> 01:48:58.240

Phil: Too much dialogue.

01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:00.420

Phil: The game has too much dialogue.

01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:01.560

Phil: The game was too long.

01:49:01.580 --> 01:49:03.160

Phil: That's my only criticisms of it.

01:49:04.120 --> 01:49:04.760

Phil: I thought that...

01:49:05.280 --> 01:49:05.940

Tom: I would agree.

01:49:06.200 --> 01:49:09.100

Phil: The coffee mechanic was good.

01:49:09.600 --> 01:49:11.000

Phil: I thought the characters were good.

01:49:12.120 --> 01:49:12.580

Phil: I thought...

01:49:12.620 --> 01:49:24.700

Tom: I also wish that you had, as far as the coffee mechanic is concerned, I think it would have been potentially more interesting and added a layer of puzzle solving.

01:49:25.740 --> 01:49:43.200

Tom: If you had a recipe book of the coffees that had everything unlocked in it to begin with, and from what the characters ask for, you have to figure out the relevant recipe rather than doing it through figuring out the ingredients.

01:49:43.220 --> 01:49:44.040

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:49:44.040 --> 01:49:49.240

Phil: There's only one right answer, and you basically unlock recipes as you go.

01:49:49.300 --> 01:49:52.740

Phil: It would have been good to basically go beyond that.

01:49:53.040 --> 01:50:03.680

Phil: And I think that whoever came up with the mechanic for this game got short-circuited or victimized by the people who were writing the visual novel component of it.

01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:13.460

Phil: And for future games, if you guys are listening, listen to your game mechanics guys a bit more and pull back on the visual novel.

01:50:13.500 --> 01:50:14.880

Phil: Anyone can write a visual novel.

01:50:15.400 --> 01:50:19.260

Phil: God knows, me and Tom have done it quite a few times, haven't published any of them yet.

01:50:20.720 --> 01:50:27.180

Phil: But the game mechanic was good and it could have been better explored.

01:50:27.460 --> 01:50:33.140

Phil: I think that it was deeper than the player actually gets to engage with it.

01:50:33.300 --> 01:50:43.080

Tom: There's also, for instance, a surprisingly effective coffee drawing minigame that you can do for latte art.

01:50:44.020 --> 01:50:47.640

Tom: But it's never actually needed for anything in the game.

01:50:47.680 --> 01:50:51.400

Phil: I won't say what most of my coffee art looked like, but you were...

01:50:52.520 --> 01:50:56.860

Tom: I think similar to the illustrations of your visual novel.

01:50:57.140 --> 01:50:57.860

Phil: Exactly.

01:50:58.660 --> 01:51:00.640

Phil: And you know what?

01:51:01.680 --> 01:51:05.100

Phil: The character art was great, and the extras are great in this game.

01:51:05.120 --> 01:51:07.640

Phil: They've got visual novels for every character.

01:51:08.500 --> 01:51:13.880

Phil: Just really, there's a lot of positivity to be said about this game.

01:51:14.700 --> 01:51:24.100

Tom: It's even got, for example, the short stories of the writer character in the game as well, that she publishes in the newspaper she works for.

01:51:24.120 --> 01:51:25.660

Phil: Yeah, which is great.

01:51:25.720 --> 01:51:28.540

Phil: So overall, it's a good game.

01:51:28.560 --> 01:51:29.820

Phil: It's worth experiencing.

01:51:30.700 --> 01:51:31.740

Phil: Could have been done better.

01:51:31.940 --> 01:51:38.420

Phil: It certainly enticed me enough to play through a space for The Unbound, the prologue for the other game.

01:51:39.080 --> 01:51:50.260

Phil: And anytime you've got a prolific or even burgeoning game developer coming from a country other than the usual suspects, they're worth looking at.

01:51:50.280 --> 01:51:58.400

Phil: And that's Toge or Toge, or Toge, or Togi Productions, T-O-G-E.

01:51:58.520 --> 01:52:00.440

Phil: Look them up.

01:52:00.460 --> 01:52:06.200

Phil: They are to be commended, I mean, for this level of quality, I feel.

01:52:07.540 --> 01:52:10.480

Tom: And none of my Indonesian friends had heard of it.

01:52:11.080 --> 01:52:12.420

Phil: Well, spread the news.

01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:13.540

Phil: Spread the news.

01:52:14.740 --> 01:52:15.240

Phil: Okay.

01:52:15.260 --> 01:52:17.080

Tom: We're ready for the dice roll of destiny.

01:52:17.360 --> 01:52:18.680

Tom: Finally the third.

01:52:18.700 --> 01:52:20.800

Phil: We'll see what you've got left after a six.

01:52:20.920 --> 01:52:22.000

Tom: And final roll.

01:52:22.060 --> 01:52:25.520

Tom: Yeah.

01:52:25.540 --> 01:52:30.540

Tom: Sadly, that was one time too many, and it's only a three for the third roll.

01:52:30.640 --> 01:52:31.460

Phil: Already spent.

01:52:31.580 --> 01:52:32.420

Phil: That's what I thought.

01:52:32.480 --> 01:52:32.780

Tom: Yeah.

01:52:34.480 --> 01:52:36.680

Phil: I gave the game a six and a half.

01:52:37.140 --> 01:52:39.500

Phil: So, for my own...

01:52:39.580 --> 01:52:42.220

Tom: That's a nine and a half out of 20.

01:52:42.320 --> 01:52:42.580

Phil: Yep.

01:52:42.920 --> 01:52:44.500

Phil: Which is about right, probably.

01:52:44.520 --> 01:52:45.340

Phil: Sad to say.

01:52:47.060 --> 01:52:49.000

Phil: So, with that, we've got to close out the show.

01:52:49.020 --> 01:52:50.880

Phil: We didn't even get to talk about Mind Scanners.

01:52:51.660 --> 01:52:53.660

Phil: We didn't get to talk about Mind Scanners.

01:52:54.520 --> 01:52:57.180

Tom: We forgot Mind Scanners somehow.

01:52:57.560 --> 01:53:01.920

Tom: There is some psychological analysis there.

01:53:01.980 --> 01:53:03.780

Phil: We didn't get to talk about Not Tonight.

01:53:04.380 --> 01:53:12.580

Phil: We didn't get to talk about Rocket League Splatoon 2, Game Dev Story, and many other things that we've been playing.

01:53:13.460 --> 01:53:14.880

Phil: So, unfortunately...

01:53:14.900 --> 01:53:17.520

Tom: Did you, in fact, have anything to say about Mind Scanners?

01:53:17.640 --> 01:53:18.300

Phil: I love it.

01:53:18.480 --> 01:53:19.480

Phil: I thought it was great.

01:53:19.600 --> 01:53:20.760

Phil: I particularly...

01:53:21.440 --> 01:53:32.380

Phil: We'll talk about it more at length, but I particularly like the first element of the game where you have to read the people's dialogue and then come up with the right answer from a multi-choice.

01:53:33.460 --> 01:53:38.580

Phil: As we all know from kind words, I'm an armchair psychologist.

01:53:38.860 --> 01:53:42.700

Phil: I did quite a few uni courses towards a psychology degree.

01:53:44.300 --> 01:53:45.280

Phil: And I...

01:53:45.500 --> 01:53:48.720

Tom: Sadly, this explains a lot about you, I'm afraid to say.

01:53:48.740 --> 01:53:49.520

Phil: Yeah, I know.

01:53:50.040 --> 01:53:58.960

Phil: And I nailed that component of it, but then when it came to the puzzle component of it, where you're trying to heal the people, I fried all their brains and failed.

01:53:59.940 --> 01:54:04.140

Tom: Sounds a lot like the experience of a psychologist.

01:54:04.160 --> 01:54:05.180

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:54:05.200 --> 01:54:14.960

Phil: You basically set people up with the false hope that they're cured when in fact you haven't done anything other than take their money and tell them after 50 minutes, well, I'm afraid that's all the time we've got today.

01:54:16.460 --> 01:54:18.880

Phil: But we can talk about that very soon.

01:54:20.380 --> 01:54:27.380

Phil: But Not Tonight is a game from Panic Bam, published by No More Robots.

01:54:27.440 --> 01:54:28.720

Phil: What did No More Robots do?

01:54:29.060 --> 01:54:30.560

Phil: They've done something else, haven't they?

01:54:32.400 --> 01:54:32.980

Tom: No idea.

01:54:33.280 --> 01:54:35.400

Phil: Oh, no, that's not Tonight.

01:54:35.900 --> 01:54:37.520

Phil: Actually, you're talking about Mind Scanners.

01:54:39.340 --> 01:54:40.940

Phil: And it's a beta.

01:54:41.100 --> 01:54:48.400

Tom: No More Robots have done other similarly dystopian indie titles, I believe.

01:54:49.420 --> 01:54:50.240

Phil: We can get into that.

01:54:50.240 --> 01:54:56.120

Phil: Mind Scanners, the beta, it's probably closed at this point anyway, so we've got plenty of time to talk about that in the future.

01:54:56.440 --> 01:55:01.120

Tom: They did say they may be releasing another demo at some point in the future.

01:55:01.120 --> 01:55:04.700

Tom: If they do, definitely go check it out.

01:55:04.720 --> 01:55:21.280

Tom: The only thing I would add to what Phil has said, because it is a very short beta, is that visually, I think it is probably the best Papers, Please influenced game yet.

01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:26.400

Tom: Not necessarily better than Papers, Please, sorry, but the best following on from Papers, Please.

01:55:26.840 --> 01:55:39.780

Tom: The characters you're healing all have really distinct personalities that comes through, not just in their dialogue as they're doing the ink block test and you're diagnosing them.

01:55:39.800 --> 01:55:40.000

Phil: Rorschach.

01:55:41.360 --> 01:55:45.720

Tom: But also, same thing, but also what they look like.

01:55:47.500 --> 01:55:58.080

Tom: And the music really gets the totalitarian vibes that lie latent in Vaporwave out of it really well.

01:55:58.760 --> 01:56:23.320

Tom: And the gameplay where you're healing them is really simple mini games where you're basically just either doing a tiny bit of puzzle solving, some more complicated machines like moving a wheel at the right speed or lining up certain frequencies on a spectrographic thing and things like that.

01:56:23.840 --> 01:56:33.340

Tom: And currently, that's a bit awkward because they don't really give you much instruction on how to use them properly.

01:56:33.560 --> 01:56:35.700

Phil: It's not just Phil Fogg then, okay, that's good.

01:56:35.900 --> 01:56:36.200

Tom: No.

01:56:36.600 --> 01:56:41.460

Tom: So you have to figure that out yourself, but the time limit per day is really limited.

01:56:41.460 --> 01:56:50.280

Tom: So if you're using a machine that you don't know how to use, that will probably eat up the entirety of your day as you're attempting to heal them.

01:56:50.300 --> 01:56:55.820

Tom: But again, that's very similar to the experience of a real psychologist.

01:56:56.060 --> 01:56:57.060

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:56:57.080 --> 01:57:11.400

Tom: All in all, all in all, I think it was, I think it's a really promising work simulator and certainly the one that has engrossed me the most since Papers, Please.

01:57:11.420 --> 01:57:29.020

Tom: And I really think the psychological aspect of it, one, makes the totalitarian setting so much more interesting, and two, really sets it apart from all other work simulators, including Papers, Please.

01:57:29.220 --> 01:57:47.520

Tom: But rather than the hook of Papers, Please being the high moral stakes in it, the personal stakes in this really push it over the edge and give it that something special that Papers, Please has, but no other work simulators as yet have quite achieved.

01:57:47.580 --> 01:57:48.240

Phil: Absolutely.

01:57:48.700 --> 01:57:50.760

Phil: Mind scanners is in beta.

01:57:50.780 --> 01:57:57.060

Phil: If you are lucky enough to act quickly and hook a copy of the game, get into it in a hurry.

01:57:57.160 --> 01:57:59.100

Phil: Developed by a company called The Outer Zone.

01:57:59.120 --> 01:58:02.500

Phil: I don't know anything about them, but it's a great game.

01:58:02.700 --> 01:58:15.300

Phil: I still think that Not Tonight is better in some ways, but Mind Scanners is superior in a very special way, and certainly worthy of quick examination.

01:58:15.400 --> 01:58:20.740

Phil: But as I said, it's in beta now, so we'll be able to talk about that in great detail in the future.

01:58:20.900 --> 01:58:50.580

Tom: The last thing I will add on Mind Scanners, just again on the interaction between the totalitarian setting and the psychology, is something humorous I've noticed so far, and I wonder will be worked into the plot, or is merely a coincidence, is that all the characters who are behaving deviantly are the ones who are insane, in that if you do not cure them of their insanity, then they will do something bad.

01:58:50.780 --> 01:59:02.600

Tom: Whereas all the ones who are not behaving deviantly, even if they have insane ideas, are the sane ones who you can safely allow to go about their business with their personality unaffected.

01:59:02.940 --> 01:59:10.760

Phil: Which for Phil Fogg is awesome, because I can go through these and go, yeah, that person's insane.

01:59:10.780 --> 01:59:12.600

Phil: No, that person's not insane.

01:59:12.840 --> 01:59:13.640

Phil: But you know what?

01:59:13.680 --> 01:59:23.840

Phil: Every time I declared someone sane, I was waiting for the game to come back and swat me, because, you know, it's an authoritarian world.

01:59:23.940 --> 01:59:27.000

Phil: So, you know, here's someone who's thinking independently.

01:59:27.020 --> 01:59:30.360

Phil: Yeah, they're slightly off-kilter, but you know what?

01:59:30.380 --> 01:59:31.040

Phil: They're sane.

01:59:31.440 --> 01:59:34.040

Phil: And I kept waiting for the game to hit me.

01:59:35.080 --> 01:59:56.680

Phil: But there was a couple of characters there, like the Catwoman, without a spoiler, where I took it to quite the brink, where it's like, no, you know, this person's, yeah, it's a little bit weird, but yeah, you know, and ultimately my acceptance of her weirdness worked against me.

01:59:58.000 --> 02:00:00.020

Tom: Well, you'll see the other interesting thing about...

02:00:00.040 --> 02:00:12.540

Tom: I think one of the things that I like about that is is that most of the deviant behavior was also the natural behavior of what one might expect a totalitarian society to be doing.

02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:13.320

Phil: Yes, yeah.

02:00:13.680 --> 02:00:18.000

Phil: No, it's a great beta, let's hope they turn it into a great game.

02:00:18.780 --> 02:00:27.100

Phil: For the next episode, homework for the listeners is to go out and play Not Tonight, another work simulator.

02:00:28.760 --> 02:00:37.480

Phil: I've got a code from you for the PC, I loved it so much I went out and bought it for the Switch, and I've got various things to say about that.

02:00:38.500 --> 02:00:49.660

Phil: But before we close out the show entirely, is there any trademark banter you want to hit on, just as a last little treat for our listeners?

02:00:50.420 --> 02:00:54.040

Tom: Well, I recently tried for the first time Mountain Dew.

02:00:57.240 --> 02:00:57.500

Tom: What?

02:00:57.520 --> 02:01:13.340

Tom: Well, Mountain Dew, unlike in America gaming circles, at least in my lifetime, it's not like Sprite or Fanta or 7-Up or Coca-Cola, it's an obscure thing like Dr Pepper.

02:01:13.360 --> 02:01:16.460

Phil: Yeah, but over the last four years, you can buy Mountain Dew in the stores.

02:01:16.780 --> 02:01:20.560

Phil: They don't sell diet Mountain Dew, which is the real thing.

02:01:21.200 --> 02:01:23.740

Phil: They sell the normal crap Mountain Dew.

02:01:23.760 --> 02:01:30.740

Tom: Well, I also rarely drink soft drinks, particularly the last several years.

02:01:30.760 --> 02:01:38.880

Phil: Mountain Dew also has a line called Code Red, which is disgusting, but also simultaneously addictive.

02:01:40.180 --> 02:01:41.660

Tom: And I've got to ask you a question.

02:01:41.680 --> 02:01:46.220

Tom: It said energize on the packaging spelt correctly as well.

02:01:46.240 --> 02:01:52.500

Tom: So full credit to Mountain Dew for not engaging in cultural imperialism.

02:01:54.040 --> 02:01:57.700

Phil: And energize is a different strain of Mountain Dew.

02:01:58.040 --> 02:01:58.960

Tom: That's what I was asking.

02:01:58.980 --> 02:02:01.680

Tom: So this is in fact different to the standard Mountain Dew.

02:02:01.700 --> 02:02:04.720

Phil: This is the energy drink version of it.

02:02:05.520 --> 02:02:16.640

Tom: Because I found it as a result of that to be superior to what I imagine Mountain Dew would be like, not that I've tried it, because it was not disgustingly sweet.

02:02:17.700 --> 02:02:28.920

Tom: It was very limey and actually had a little bit of acidity to it and did not overpower the palate with sugar in a way that many soft drinks do.

02:02:28.940 --> 02:02:37.700

Phil: Traditional Mountain Dew has a flat salty kind of taste to it, more than a sweet.

02:02:38.380 --> 02:02:45.740

Phil: And it's liked by gamers because before energy drinks, Mountain Dew had the highest level of caffeine in it.

02:02:48.460 --> 02:02:56.420

Tom: But that wasn't enough, so they've now gone to the next level.

02:02:56.460 --> 02:03:05.900

Phil: I'm not going to misspeak here in terms of the milligrams of caffeine, but Mountain Dew used to be something that kept me alive, that's for sure.

02:03:06.960 --> 02:03:13.520

Phil: Okay, well with that, Tom Towers, thank you for joining us on episode 133 of The Game Under Podcast.

02:03:13.880 --> 02:03:16.320

Phil: We went through some great games tonight.

02:03:16.400 --> 02:03:21.960

Phil: We talked about Cyber Punk 2077, The Medium, Mind Scanners, Space Court.

02:03:22.240 --> 02:03:23.120

Phil: Am I missing anything?

02:03:23.120 --> 02:03:23.840

Phil: Coffee Talk.

02:03:25.540 --> 02:03:30.800

Phil: All games, I think we would say, if we can't recommend them, they're at least worth playing if you've got the right.

02:03:30.840 --> 02:03:32.460

Tom: And many of them we would recommend.

02:03:35.240 --> 02:03:36.800

Phil: The Medium, still on the fence.

02:03:39.540 --> 02:03:41.440

Tom: But a potentially promising start.

02:03:41.460 --> 02:03:41.920

Phil: Definitely.

02:03:43.500 --> 02:03:49.380

Tom: But we will end with a random poem by Jose Martin.

02:03:49.400 --> 02:03:50.020

Phil: Okay, here we go.

02:03:50.040 --> 02:03:50.820

Phil: One of his limericks.

02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:56.300

Tom: I'll let the audience judge whether this is a Mark Twain style aphorism.

02:03:56.320 --> 02:04:00.940

Phil: There was a young lady from Cuba who had an enormously large tuba.

02:04:00.960 --> 02:04:01.020

Tom: Tuba.

02:04:01.260 --> 02:04:01.900

Tom: Tuba.

02:04:02.100 --> 02:04:03.640

Phil: When you blew in one end...

02:04:03.660 --> 02:04:06.820

Phil: That's all I can come up with, sorry.

02:04:09.400 --> 02:04:10.460

Phil: You could always depend...

02:04:12.100 --> 02:04:13.900

Tom: No, her whole body would bend.

02:04:14.300 --> 02:04:16.840

Phil: And you'd end up with a massive tumor.

02:04:17.160 --> 02:04:18.140

Phil: It's not a tumor.

02:04:19.320 --> 02:04:20.690

Tom: No, no, that...

02:04:20.690 --> 02:04:21.280

Tom: no.

02:04:22.260 --> 02:04:24.460

Tom: You ruined it at the ending there, I'm afraid to say.

02:04:26.460 --> 02:04:33.500

Tom: In a pitch dark alley where I stroll in darkness, I raise my eyes and see a church, stiff standing and remote.

02:04:34.120 --> 02:04:36.760

Tom: Is there some mystery, some power, revelation?

02:04:37.080 --> 02:04:39.520

Tom: Are you obliged my knee to genuflect?

02:04:39.880 --> 02:04:40.960

Tom: I wonder what it is.

02:04:41.500 --> 02:04:45.340

Tom: Night shimmers, a worm nibbles at the tendrils of a vine.

02:04:45.660 --> 02:04:49.860

Tom: Calling to autumn, the vein in sullen, cicada sings its songs.

02:04:50.540 --> 02:04:52.660

Tom: A pair is singing, intent on both.

02:04:53.040 --> 02:04:57.960

Tom: I raise my eyes and see that the church of my stroll has the form of an owl.

02:04:59.460 --> 02:05:02.420

Phil: So that sounds to me like someone who's a closeted homosexual.

02:05:03.900 --> 02:05:04.860

Phil: He looks towards the...

02:05:05.120 --> 02:05:06.180

Tom: Like Mark Twain.

02:05:07.820 --> 02:05:08.980

Tom: It's one of the better poems.

02:05:09.000 --> 02:05:18.380

Tom: The point is merely that I don't think that fits the description of aphoristic poetry of the Mark Twain poem.

02:05:18.400 --> 02:05:18.740

Phil: That's true.

02:05:18.760 --> 02:05:20.440

Phil: I couldn't figure out the whole owl thing.

02:05:21.300 --> 02:05:26.180

Phil: Okay, well thanks for that and we'll listen to you next time.

02:05:26.400 --> 02:05:27.600

Phil: But in opposite.

02:05:29.820 --> 02:05:30.780

Phil: I'm recording now.

02:05:31.720 --> 02:05:33.460

Phil: This is where I'm starting the recording.

02:05:35.100 --> 02:05:36.160

Phil: Hoo hoo!

02:05:36.180 --> 02:05:40.700

Phil: It's the special Christmas episode of The Game Under Podcast.

02:05:42.540 --> 02:05:44.000

Phil: Can you hear the music that I'm hearing?

02:05:44.520 --> 02:05:44.800

Tom: No.

02:05:47.740 --> 02:05:49.260

Phil: Hopefully it's playing somewhere.

02:05:51.020 --> 02:05:51.680

Tom: In your head.

02:05:54.780 --> 02:05:55.680

Phil: Oh, it's so wonderful.

02:05:56.800 --> 02:05:58.180

Phil: Are you familiar with the trigger?

Game Under Podcast 132

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:24 Jordan Aired

First Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:11:25 Super Mario 3D All-Stars for Switch

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:21:25 Oculus Quest 2
1:08:15 Dirt Rally VR
1:20:00 Tom's Favorite Console of All Time

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
1:32:45 Space Channel 5 VR Kinda Funky News

Trademark Banter
1:43:26 2003 November Top 5 NPD!

Final Impressions - Tom and Phil
1:48:16 One Night Stand

Off-Topic Final Impressions - Tom Towers
2:02:24 We the Living by Ayn Rand

Transcipt

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode 132 of The Game Under Podcast.

00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:17.440

Tom: My name is Tom Towers, and I am joined today by Phil Fogg.

00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.560

Phil: Phil Fogg, hello, welcome.

00:00:19.580 --> 00:00:22.680

Phil: Thank you, Tom, for the welcome, hello listeners.

00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.500

Tom: And I don't know if you noticed, but on the site, the Jordan B.

00:00:28.580 --> 00:00:32.320

Tom: Peterson Trilogy has now been completed.

00:00:34.580 --> 00:00:38.460

Phil: Now, I was going to ask you, what was the impetus for writing?

00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:39.860

Phil: Who is this Jordan B.

00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:47.440

Phil: Peterson, and what was the impetus for writing this three-part series about his writing?

00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:59.900

Tom: Well, he is, I believe, a Canadian clinical psychologist who became famous for some erroneous commentary on a hate speech bill in Canada.

00:01:00.080 --> 00:01:10.900

Tom: And before this blew up, due to the random shit that I watch on YouTube, I had actually become familiar with his YouTube content.

00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:18.800

Tom: So it was hilarious and quite the ride to see him blow up in the way he did.

00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:27.060

Tom: He became a highly controversial figure for many reasons, some of which are fair and some of which are perhaps not so fair.

00:01:27.880 --> 00:01:31.180

Tom: But it was quite an amusing story.

00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:51.940

Tom: And he's worth writing about, I think, because when you go back to his first book, Maps of Meaning, and also his, and make sure if you have any interest in him, find the clips of him on YouTube from his community television days where he is wearing a fedora as an example.

00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.180

Phil: It's always a good start, always a good start.

00:01:55.940 --> 00:01:57.620

Tom: Lots of other hilarious stuff.

00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:02.080

Tom: He is clearly believes himself to be a prophet.

00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:16.120

Tom: And I have not come across any prophet, no matter how steeped in grifting their prophecy is that is not a tremendously entertaining and fascinating figure.

00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:18.600

Phil: You worked for Notch, you know.

00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:21.680

Phil: You talk about prophets, how many prophets are there?

00:02:21.700 --> 00:02:21.960

Phil: I mean...

00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:23.880

Tom: Prophets are a dime a dozen.

00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:26.720

Tom: I think most people are prophets.

00:02:26.720 --> 00:02:32.920

Tom: It's just that some people are willing to be openly prophets in the public eye.

00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:35.140

Phil: Don't you mean truly?

00:02:35.320 --> 00:02:37.000

Phil: What about true prophets though?

00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:40.900

Phil: True prophets are just basically very good at observation.

00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:48.120

Tom: Well, a true prophet is just a prophet who is good, just as most people are artists, but most people aren't necessarily good artists.

00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:54.920

Phil: Okay, so you close out this discussion of Jordan Peterson.

00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:00.520

Tom: With a comparison to another prophet, the rapper Lil B.

00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:02.340

Phil: I've heard of Lil B.

00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:06.840

Tom: Yes, and he has written his own self-help book.

00:03:06.880 --> 00:03:12.120

Tom: And Jordan Peterson's most famous book is 12 Rules for Life, a self-help book.

00:03:12.140 --> 00:03:17.200

Tom: And this was, though I have seen a lot of infomercials for self-help books.

00:03:17.200 --> 00:03:21.780

Tom: I've never actually read a self-help book before I read Jordan Peterson.

00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.440

Tom: So I thought I should read another self-help book for comparison.

00:03:25.920 --> 00:03:33.260

Tom: And what better self-help book than Taking Over by Imposing the Positive by Lil B.

00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.420

Phil: Is it widely available?

00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:40.920

Phil: I mean, is this his first foray into self-help?

00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:42.940

Tom: Lil B or Jordan Peterson?

00:03:43.540 --> 00:03:44.180

Phil: Lil B.

00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:55.940

Tom: I think this is the, well, much of his music and persona is certainly about positivity and self-actualization in many ways.

00:03:56.980 --> 00:04:01.120

Tom: But I believe this is his only self-help book that he has written.

00:04:01.880 --> 00:04:02.600

Phil: It's puzzling.

00:04:03.580 --> 00:04:05.820

Tom: And I would in fact recommend it.

00:04:05.820 --> 00:04:37.580

Tom: And I learned something from it in fact, and from reading the Jordan Peterson books, because there is an idea out there that things like conspiracy theories essentially a coping mechanism in which you, when confronted with forces, not forces, sorry, events that are out of anyone's control, people will invent a story that turns these events into being within people's control.

00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:45.040

Tom: And for me, I always found that to be a little bit weird because conspiracy theories are usually batshit crazy.

00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:48.840

Tom: And if they were true, I'm not sure in what way they would be at all comforting.

00:04:49.080 --> 00:05:24.540

Tom: But in reading, taking over the positive and 12 rules for life and comparing the two, I can actually kind of see where this may actually be true because in 12 rules for life, everything comes back to essentially being caused by those pesky cultural Marxists who were out there to destroy Western civilization in the most banal and seemingly unrelated ways to politics that you could think of, such as school playground dynamics.

00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:30.720

Tom: And certainly one can make an argument that politics obviously influences public education and so on and so forth.

00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:40.820

Tom: But to be directly attacking it along those lines in the context of it being a cultural Marxist plot in a self-help book is a little bizarre.

00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:48.260

Tom: And the whole conceit of the book, as you can tell from the title, 12 Rules for Life, what is a full title?

00:05:48.280 --> 00:05:54.100

Tom: Something to do with order taking over chaos, protecting yourself from chaos rather.

00:05:55.440 --> 00:06:09.280

Tom: And you then compare that to Lil B's book where you are confronted with banal everyday problems like dealing with arachnophobia, growing up-

00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:10.500

Phil: Everyday problems, yes.

00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:16.900

Tom: Growing up without a father and having to deal with these things when they aren't caused by fucking cultural Marxists.

00:06:17.020 --> 00:06:30.420

Tom: And it's actually a significantly more disturbing vision than the world, than the prophet who is meant to be saving you from the chaotic, despairing universe that he's attempting to present you with.

00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:42.040

Phil: All right, well, this under conspiracy theories in terms of people accepting them and embracing them because they provide an answer for something that they otherwise cannot understand.

00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:45.580

Phil: That's pretty, that's well-worn territory.

00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:55.820

Phil: I mean, it came up with the JFK assassination, people just not being able to comprehend how the leader of the free world, end quote, could be just killed by one person.

00:06:56.260 --> 00:06:57.600

Phil: And so the conspiracy theories come up.

00:06:57.620 --> 00:07:00.280

Tom: The end quote there is because JFK isn't really dead, by the way.

00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.720

Phil: So that's pretty, you know, well-worn territory.

00:07:06.200 --> 00:07:15.080

Phil: And, you know, to a degree in talking about religion, you know, some people would say that, you know, Occam's razor just is too obvious.

00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:20.100

Phil: And that's why you've got to come up with concepts of either creation or of evolution.

00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:27.340

Phil: You know, it's, so you can't just have something, something as important as human life couldn't have just randomly happened.

00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.060

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it can't be arbitrary.

00:07:29.080 --> 00:07:32.060

Phil: There has to be some, you know, deeper meaning.

00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:44.020

Phil: So in a sense, you know, faith, be it science or religious, is also a conspiracy theory, if you will, if you want to go that far.

00:07:44.260 --> 00:07:53.400

Tom: Absolutely, and certainly, you can take natural selection, you can interpret, and you can also do this with religion, with religion as well.

00:07:53.420 --> 00:07:59.380

Tom: You can interpret natural selection in a totally arbitrary manner, and it is totally open to that.

00:07:59.660 --> 00:08:05.980

Tom: But there sure are a hell of a lot of supposedly, totally rational scientists.

00:08:06.620 --> 00:08:25.920

Tom: There's entire fields based on this that are entirely about coming up with reasons to turn natural selection into a totally arbitrarily thing, where everything has a rational and logical explanation for why things have turned out as they are.

00:08:27.100 --> 00:08:34.960

Phil: If you want to talk about creative design and evolution, the thing is that I said earlier, puzzling, I picked up this pen.

00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:36.660

Phil: It's a government-issued pen, right?

00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:39.600

Phil: It was given to me for free by a government somehow.

00:08:40.540 --> 00:08:42.540

Phil: It's fallen apart in my hands.

00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.320

Phil: I've just counted this 13 parts to this pen.

00:08:47.020 --> 00:08:59.300

Phil: I mean, the person who designed this must have been extremely bored, or just had a complete disregard for like plastic and rubber and like, you know, the use of it.

00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:01.460

Phil: Why has it got so many pieces?

00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:04.720

Phil: 13 pieces in a in a in a biro.

00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:08.860

Tom: I think, apropos of what we're discussing, maybe no one designed it.

00:09:09.300 --> 00:09:10.500

Phil: Maybe no, it just happened.

00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:13.960

Tom: And that's why it is has turned out as it has turned out.

00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:15.960

Phil: It's a horrible, horrible pen.

00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:20.620

Phil: So go to game under dot net to to read that.

00:09:20.640 --> 00:09:22.540

Phil: There's a link to it from the front page.

00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:23.600

Phil: Game under dot net.

00:09:23.780 --> 00:09:25.540

Phil: Don't go to gam under dot net.

00:09:26.660 --> 00:09:27.560

Phil: I did earlier.

00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:28.220

Phil: It does not.

00:09:28.300 --> 00:09:30.160

Phil: There's no there's no website there.

00:09:30.180 --> 00:09:31.380

Phil: No one owns gam under.

00:09:31.880 --> 00:09:33.680

Tom: So time for you to buy that domain.

00:09:34.020 --> 00:09:37.280

Phil: Probably, probably buy a snap that one up while I can.

00:09:37.920 --> 00:09:45.520

Phil: Okay, well in terms of anything else you wanted to talk about before we get into the hot games of the week and the hot news of the week.

00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:47.900

Tom: Well, he does apparently have a new book coming.

00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:50.760

Tom: And I think that it was clearly timed.

00:09:51.680 --> 00:09:56.740

Tom: It was announced just after I had published the final part of the trilogy.

00:09:56.760 --> 00:10:00.380

Tom: So I think he's trying to cash in on game under's fame.

00:10:00.580 --> 00:10:05.960

Tom: And judging by the title, which is, and we've got...

00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:06.940

Phil: Just look it up, get it right...

00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:06.940

Tom: .

00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:09.200

Tom: On Air Research, we want to get this accurate.

00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:13.180

Tom: One of his rules for life is to be precise in your speech.

00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:17.080

Tom: So I've got to be very careful in what I say here and get the title right.

00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:30.160

Tom: The next book, as if it is a response to some of my criticisms in those articles, is called Beyond Order, 12 More Rules for Life.

00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:37.660

Tom: And I believe it is partially in response to criticism aimed at his book.

00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:45.720

Tom: And it is in fact about being more creative in a potentially stifling order, I believe, something along those lines.

00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:49.220

Phil: You know, so now he's got 24 rules for life?

00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:49.860

Tom: Yes, he does.

00:10:51.300 --> 00:11:04.420

Tom: And we should add that these 24 rules for life are based on his original 42 rules for life, when he was spreading the message on the open question and answer website Queera.

00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:10.140

Phil: Quora, yeah, so that's 64 life lessons?

00:11:10.400 --> 00:11:20.200

Tom: No, I think there's 42 in total, but I think this is actually whittled down from 72 he originally had, but he posted 42 on Quora.

00:11:21.300 --> 00:11:23.500

Phil: Because, yeah, 64 would have been cool.

00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:31.860

Phil: But anyway, speaking of N64, I'll be talking about Super Mario All-Stars for Switch later in this episode.

00:11:31.880 --> 00:11:33.020

Tom: Why don't you talk about it now?

00:11:33.940 --> 00:11:34.460

Phil: Must I?

00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:35.400

Tom: Yes, you must.

00:11:36.020 --> 00:11:36.560

Phil: Okay.

00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:40.460

Phil: Well, I got it for Switch for myself for Christmas, right?

00:11:42.420 --> 00:11:45.900

Phil: The case did not have any cellophane on it at all, right?

00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:52.880

Phil: So I'm not supposed to have opened this until Christmas, because it's supposed to be wrapped and put under a tree, etc.

00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:54.260

Phil: Yep.

00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:55.380

Phil: I could die between now and then.

00:11:55.400 --> 00:11:56.480

Phil: I don't see the point in this.

00:11:57.140 --> 00:12:00.560

Phil: But it came from the retailer without any cellophane on it.

00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:03.420

Phil: And so I'm like, wow, they're not even trying anymore.

00:12:03.420 --> 00:12:05.440

Phil: You know, there's no manual.

00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:06.920

Phil: Now there's no cellophane around it.

00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:07.340

Phil: Okay.

00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:08.920

Phil: So I just opened it.

00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:19.180

Phil: I put in my copy of Super Mario Odyssey and closed it back up, because no one's going to notice the difference.

00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:20.040

Phil: It's Mario games.

00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:22.800

Phil: And I have all these games already.

00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:25.500

Phil: So if anyone walks by the TV and goes, what's that?

00:12:25.520 --> 00:12:26.880

Phil: I'll just say, it's Mario, you know.

00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:28.340

Tom: Mario Odyssey.

00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:29.140

Phil: Yeah.

00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:29.520

Phil: Yeah.

00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:31.640

Tom: So can you believe in modern graphics?

00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:34.200

Phil: Well, yes.

00:12:34.280 --> 00:12:56.080

Phil: And now the so it basically has Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy One, the original Galaxy, plus the soundtracks for all three, which is pretty cool because some of them have only been released to like Nintendo Club members in Japan in the past.

00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.360

Tom: How do you access the soundtracks?

00:12:59.120 --> 00:12:59.920

Phil: On the thing.

00:13:00.260 --> 00:13:01.060

Phil: It's on the thing.

00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.500

Phil: And I think there's a way to rip them off as well.

00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:08.280

Phil: It's not only the soundtrack, but it's also all the sound effects.

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.380

Phil: So it's pretty, pretty exhaustive.

00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:15.540

Tom: So there's a lot of soundboard material for you there.

00:13:16.060 --> 00:13:16.460

Phil: Yeah.

00:13:16.660 --> 00:13:17.040

Phil: Yeah.

00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:18.800

Phil: And that's true.

00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:25.600

Phil: And they have a player mode, so that you can just go into the player mode and just put it down and listen to it that way.

00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:30.060

Phil: So it's not chewing up your battery for screen time.

00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.500

Phil: So I played them in order.

00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:34.600

Phil: I've just dabbled in each one of them.

00:13:35.780 --> 00:13:45.640

Phil: Super Mario 64 basically looks like the high res versions that have been released on the web by fans.

00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:49.140

Phil: They haven't changed the graphics or anything.

00:13:49.160 --> 00:13:50.360

Phil: It's just very, very clear.

00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:56.680

Phil: And they have actually done some tricks to it and some slight improvements.

00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:04.420

Phil: But ultimately, it's just Super Mario 64, but with no load times.

00:14:04.420 --> 00:14:07.740

Phil: Well, there was hardly any load times before anyway, because it was also on a cartridge.

00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.020

Phil: But just really clear visuals.

00:14:11.900 --> 00:14:15.220

Phil: And yeah, it's great with a pro controller.

00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:19.000

Phil: Using the Switch handheld, it's okay.

00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:28.340

Phil: Certainly better than playing Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario Galaxy in the handheld mode, which is really disappointing.

00:14:29.160 --> 00:14:32.600

Phil: So I've been mostly using the pro controllers for those.

00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:43.400

Phil: Super Mario Sunshine, it is actually a much better play experience than off of the GameCube because you are seeing it in widescreen as opposed to 4.3.

00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:51.200

Phil: And that's much better suited for that game because it was all about discovery and verticality.

00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:59.200

Phil: And so being able to see it in widescreen enables you to see more of the actual levels.

00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:02.040

Phil: So then just convert it from 4.3 to widescreen.

00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:06.480

Phil: You can actually see more than what you would have seen in the original game.

00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:16.740

Phil: And in this case, you do benefit from load times as you do with the Galaxy game because it's on cartridge as opposed to disc.

00:15:18.040 --> 00:15:21.800

Phil: Visually, Super Mario Sunshine looks good, I'd say.

00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.140

Phil: Certainly better than on the GameCube.

00:15:24.660 --> 00:15:30.480

Phil: There's no fog or stuttering or any sort of issues whatsoever.

00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:33.800

Phil: Yeah, it looks good and it plays well.

00:15:33.820 --> 00:15:38.760

Phil: So I'm really hopeful about that because I've never actually completed Sunshine.

00:15:39.560 --> 00:15:48.240

Phil: And then Galaxy, I thought it was gonna be the least valuable in the whole set because I absolutely loved it on the Wii and played it to death.

00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:52.300

Phil: It's actually surprising how much I didn't remember about that game.

00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:56.120

Phil: I'm really quite enjoying it.

00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:05.460

Phil: However, as you can imagine, the things that you used the remote for in the original are disastrous in this version.

00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:11.120

Phil: So you know how you're used to wave the Wii mode around so you could collect the star bits?

00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:12.680

Tom: Yep.

00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:14.460

Phil: And shoot the star bits as well.

00:16:15.540 --> 00:16:20.500

Phil: Either to shoot them at enemies or to feed those, what are those things called?

00:16:20.520 --> 00:16:21.160

Phil: Glug glugs.

00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:24.120

Phil: That's not what they're called.

00:16:24.140 --> 00:16:25.240

Phil: They're called something else.

00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:32.260

Phil: But anyway, in handheld mode, it's okay, but you have to touch the screen to do all of that.

00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:36.080

Phil: So you have to touch the screen to aim it and collect.

00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:46.740

Phil: And so while you're holding the face buttons and the analog sticks, you've actually got to take your hand off of them to move around on screen, which is not good.

00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:47.860

Tom: That's all good?

00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.520

Phil: But it is still slightly better than when you're playing it in docked mode.

00:16:53.340 --> 00:17:06.040

Phil: Because in docked mode, you have to pull down the R trigger, which is the top trigger, and then use the left analog stick to aim and waggle around.

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:16.160

Phil: So basically, essentially you have to stop moving to aim that thing and collect star bits.

00:17:17.060 --> 00:17:21.880

Phil: Yeah, I was really quite disappointed with the way that they handled that.

00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:25.740

Phil: And there's very little or no trimming, actually.

00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:35.740

Tom: Can you play Super Mario Galaxy using the Joy-Cons detached as if they were Wiimotes for motion control?

00:17:35.740 --> 00:17:37.700

Phil: Yeah, that's actually an excellent point.

00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:38.720

Phil: You can do it that way.

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:45.840

Phil: And then you can also use your Pro Controller to point at the screen.

00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:51.940

Phil: Even though there's nothing, they're doing it all by tilt, basically.

00:17:52.340 --> 00:17:57.560

Phil: So there's nothing on the front of the Pro Controller that actually pointed the screen that it's picking up on.

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:11.400

Phil: So that's probably the better way to handle it in docked mode, is to basically use tilt controls to replicate what you'd be doing with a Wiimote.

00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.600

Tom: And of course, it must look incredible in HD.

00:18:17.260 --> 00:18:18.700

Phil: Yes, it does, it does.

00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:21.320

Phil: There's no doubt about that.

00:18:21.340 --> 00:18:26.560

Phil: It does look exceptionally better than using component cables on a Wii U, I'm sorry, on a Wii.

00:18:28.560 --> 00:18:41.120

Phil: The graphics really hold up, but that's what you'd expect from Nintendo's games, because they typically have an art style that doesn't age as much as photorealism.

00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.920

Tom: And Super Mario Galaxy is one of the best looking games ever, easily.

00:18:46.460 --> 00:18:48.280

Phil: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:55.700

Phil: So yeah, but in terms of the bosses and everything, it is a pretty basic game, even for someone like me.

00:18:55.800 --> 00:18:59.880

Phil: So it's more the fun of figuring out how to get around.

00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:06.700

Phil: Traveling around on the planetoids is an absolute joy, and it's such a high quality game.

00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:13.840

Phil: You see the planetoids in the background, knowing that you're gonna be getting to them eventually as you fly around.

00:19:13.860 --> 00:19:19.720

Phil: And when you get there, it's just a really, that part of it is a lot of fun.

00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:27.060

Phil: But of course, the collection, in terms of its dressing, there's no Super Mario Galaxy 2, okay, whatever.

00:19:27.080 --> 00:19:31.800

Phil: There's no historical stuff.

00:19:32.120 --> 00:19:36.760

Phil: They have a one-pager at the start of each game that says this game was released in 1997.

00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:43.000

Phil: Odyssey was the first game to use a full orchestra.

00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:44.340

Phil: And that's basically it.

00:19:44.360 --> 00:19:46.580

Phil: There's no artwork to unlock.

00:19:46.600 --> 00:19:48.520

Phil: There's no director's commentary.

00:19:48.540 --> 00:19:52.000

Phil: There's no interviews or other materials that have been included.

00:19:52.680 --> 00:20:02.240

Phil: And this is from the celebration of Mario's 35th anniversary, which is perhaps fitting because it's not a major milestone.

00:20:02.280 --> 00:20:08.960

Phil: It's just a way to repackage some of this stuff and give it back to fans of the game.

00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:15.420

Phil: So maybe when Mario's on 4-0, they'll do something more complete.

00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:18.080

Phil: Why did I buy it?

00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.940

Phil: I bought it because it is only available for a limited amount of time.

00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:36.440

Phil: And I just knew that the work they'd done on Super Mario Sunshine was going to make it unique enough for me to want and to want to play, because once these things are no longer available, obviously the price on them is going to go irrationally high.

00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:38.300

Tom: Absolutely.

00:20:39.460 --> 00:20:45.580

Phil: That's pretty much all I had to say about Super Mario All-Stars for Switch.

00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:51.040

Phil: I certainly would recommend it if even if you only enjoyed Galaxy in the past.

00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:04.660

Phil: I think being able to play through Mario 64 in HD, as well as have a look at Sunshine in a different manner is worth the buy.

00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:15.840

Tom: It sounds pretty good other than the control issue and the lack of extra content, though the soundtracks probably make up for the lack of trivia, I would say.

00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:20.520

Phil: Yeah, especially if there's a way to get it off of your Switch and onto a PC.

00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:23.160

Tom: You would hope there would be.

00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:24.460

Phil: Yes, I'm sure there is.

00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.780

Tom: But it is Nintendo, so.

00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:32.740

Tom: But we will move on to, I think, an exciting announcement.

00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:46.960

Tom: Facebook has released a book for the face, and I have purchased it, which technically puts us into the next generation of consoles.

00:21:47.820 --> 00:21:51.500

Tom: Would you have a guess of what the hell I'm talking about?

00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.320

Phil: Facebook's book for the face?

00:21:54.340 --> 00:22:05.660

Phil: Well, Facebook owns Oculus, and they've been de-branding Oculus a fair bit to get it away from Lucky Palmer.

00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:10.840

Phil: So I'm going to suggest that Facebook's book for the face is VR related.

00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:11.740

Tom: Correct.

00:22:12.060 --> 00:22:12.700

Phil: Whoa!

00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:14.500

Phil: That's a pretty good guess.

00:22:14.780 --> 00:22:16.500

Phil: So you have a Oculus?

00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:21.660

Tom: A Oculus Quest 2, to be precise.

00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:23.540

Phil: So it's a PC-based one, right?

00:22:23.780 --> 00:22:32.780

Tom: No, this is the standalone one, but it can indeed be used with a computer as a PC-powered headset.

00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:35.760

Phil: Yeah, but what I'm saying is, it's not one of these.

00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:38.720

Phil: It's not the ones that is on your smartphone.

00:22:38.740 --> 00:22:39.400

Phil: This is like a...

00:22:40.040 --> 00:22:41.380

Phil: this is a proper headset.

00:22:41.780 --> 00:22:42.320

Tom: Correct.

00:22:42.580 --> 00:22:43.660

Phil: This is exciting!

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:44.640

Tom: Yes, it is.

00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:49.440

Tom: And as I said, you can use it as a PC-powered thing.

00:22:49.580 --> 00:23:20.360

Tom: And since they have gone out of the beta, I think, two months or something after it was actually released, via USB-C you can actually end up with the same quality or thereabouts of using a headset that is run via a direct video feed rather than decoding it after you're technically streaming it to the headset over USB-C.

00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:45.560

Tom: So it is a fully functional PC VR headset and has the huge advantage of also being able to run over Wi-Fi so that you can essentially play PC VR games wirelessly, which is possible with some previous headsets, but you had to get essentially PCIE solutions for that.

00:23:46.340 --> 00:23:49.520

Phil: Okay, this has just scrubbed the rest of the show.

00:23:49.540 --> 00:23:51.000

Phil: This is what we're going to talk about today.

00:23:51.320 --> 00:23:54.120

Phil: So in Oculus Quest 2, I just looked one up.

00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:58.080

Phil: This is magical that you're talking about this.

00:23:59.060 --> 00:24:02.100

Phil: It's $570 in Australia.

00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:04.760

Tom: I think it's $488.

00:24:05.120 --> 00:24:05.920

Phil: Where did you get it?

00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:07.580

Tom: I got it from oculus.com.

00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:08.880

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:13.160

Phil: Because I was just looking at amazon.com.au and there comes the one I'm looking at.

00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:15.300

Tom: You may also be looking at the high capacity version.

00:24:15.320 --> 00:24:19.620

Tom: There's a 64 gigabyte version and a 256.

00:24:20.040 --> 00:24:21.880

Phil: Yeah, so I'm looking at the 256.

00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:23.860

Phil: Now, what is the difference?

00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:28.880

Tom: The difference is entirely the size of the SSD.

00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:31.060

Phil: In terms of what it can store?

00:24:31.540 --> 00:24:32.220

Tom: That's right.

00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.680

Tom: So it's just hard drive space.

00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:36.020

Phil: So that you don't have to hook it up to a PC?

00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:43.140

Tom: Well, you would be hooking up to a PC for using it with PC VR games.

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.600

Tom: So for the games you're storing on the headset because it is a...

00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:55.540

Tom: Essentially the computer that runs the games in it is a mobile computer.

00:24:55.560 --> 00:25:01.560

Tom: So it does not run, unless you're using the computer itself, PC VR titles.

00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:08.080

Tom: So those titles you just get from the Oculus Store in the actual headset.

00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:13.760

Phil: So at that price, that comes with the two little hand thingies?

00:25:14.040 --> 00:25:14.340

Tom: Yep.

00:25:14.340 --> 00:25:15.960

Tom: It comes with both controllers.

00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:20.340

Tom: The only difference is indeed the storage capacity.

00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:21.140

Phil: Okay.

00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.840

Phil: So $499 for the smaller one and $570 for the big one.

00:25:25.860 --> 00:25:34.400

Phil: And when you compare that to the price of a new console, which is $700 in a Stryker, that's a real deal because...

00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:38.540

Tom: It's in fact cheaper than them, and it is a functional console.

00:25:38.560 --> 00:25:50.060

Tom: Now, the graphical quality of the Quest games I would put on the level of somewhere between a...

00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:52.520

Tom: Probably not somewhere between, sorry.

00:25:52.540 --> 00:26:06.380

Tom: I would put it on the level of mid-tier PS3 games, except at 4K, as opposed to the awful, awful PS3 resolution output.

00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:24.160

Tom: So it is not exactly a highly powered console, but it is at 4K and at a 72 to 90 FPS refresh rate, depending on what games they are.

00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:27.200

Tom: Because this is the second Quest.

00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:31.940

Tom: The first Quest is only a year old, and that was only 72 hertz.

00:26:32.300 --> 00:26:35.860

Tom: So many games only run at 72 FPS.

00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:48.380

Tom: Many have been updated to run at 90 FPS, and there are obviously new games that are being released on the Quest 2 will also run at 90 FPS.

00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:56.940

Tom: And I don't know outside of VR, but certainly in VR, there is a noticeable difference based on the PC games.

00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:03.100

Tom: I've played between 60 FPS and 70 FPS+.

00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:09.940

Tom: So you would want to be running games at a high FPS in VR for sure.

00:27:10.940 --> 00:27:17.820

Tom: So a 90 Hz compared to the 72 Hz of the original Quest is a huge improvement.

00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:22.640

Phil: So talking about this device as a platform, you made a distinction.

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:27.200

Phil: You said, well, if you want to play PC VR games, you have to hook it up to a PC.

00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:32.700

Phil: So what VR games would I be playing with it not being hooked up to a PC?

00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.960

Tom: Well, you wouldn't be playing PC VR games if it wasn't hooked up to a PC.

00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:47.820

Tom: But the Quest itself has a wide range of games, including ports of PC VR games that have downgraded graphics.

00:27:47.840 --> 00:27:51.120

Tom: For instance, Superhot is on the Quest.

00:27:52.260 --> 00:27:58.220

Tom: And the difference is essentially just in lighting and in a...

00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:07.060

Tom: I would also add not just lighting, but also a small difference in the level of detail in things like textures and backgrounds as well.

00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:13.100

Tom: So that would be an example of a cross-platform title.

00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:29.100

Tom: And many of the games, if you purchase them on the Oculus Store, you get both the Quest version of the game as well as the PC VR version of the game through the Oculus software on the computer.

00:28:30.800 --> 00:28:44.460

Phil: So in terms of a platform, let's say that Facebook gets sick of this in a year and shuts down their Quest Store, would you still be able to use this device?

00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:46.520

Tom: That would depend entirely on their policy.

00:28:46.760 --> 00:29:01.100

Tom: And one would not necessarily be looking too positively in that direction because certainly multiple users who have had their Facebook accounts banned have lost access to everything they've bought.

00:29:02.260 --> 00:29:06.940

Phil: Which is one of the considerations for this device is that you do have to have a Facebook account.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:07.720

Tom: That's right.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:09.560

Tom: To use it at all, that is correct.

00:29:09.780 --> 00:29:14.580

Tom: And it is users that have been making Burner accounts that have been banned.

00:29:15.300 --> 00:29:18.300

Phil: So you have to use your real identity?

00:29:19.020 --> 00:29:20.460

Tom: That's right.

00:29:20.620 --> 00:29:22.340

Tom: So Facebook will be able...

00:29:22.580 --> 00:29:33.040

Tom: Essentially, you can do nothing more than add your name to it, but obviously Facebook will then be able to apply all of their telemetry and usage data to your real name.

00:29:33.780 --> 00:29:34.080

Phil: Right.

00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:34.720

Phil: Right.

00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:40.240

Tom: But of course, many people would be using their real name with things like Steam and so forth as well.

00:29:41.420 --> 00:29:42.500

Phil: Yeah, and I don't...

00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:44.860

Phil: You know, I'm not hung up on that, I guess.

00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:48.860

Phil: Like, I don't have a Facebook account for a reason.

00:29:49.040 --> 00:29:49.740

Phil: I just don't...

00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:55.920

Phil: You know, it's not political or anything, because I just didn't want a Facebook account before the world turned on them.

00:29:56.380 --> 00:30:00.260

Tom: I have a Facebook account now, which I didn't have before, for this.

00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:07.860

Phil: Well, now, unfortunately, though, they've now ended Farmville's run, so you won't be able to play Farmville.

00:30:09.100 --> 00:30:13.360

Tom: So that's a regrettable decision then, because that was my other reason.

00:30:13.800 --> 00:30:16.020

Phil: Okay, so in terms of the...

00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:25.940

Phil: Even if they did say, okay, we're getting rid of that, like I said, with the PC VR games, that's an open platform, presumably.

00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:27.100

Phil: Yep.

00:30:27.100 --> 00:30:28.260

Phil: Like all PC games.

00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.640

Tom: That's via Steam or however you want to get them.

00:30:33.120 --> 00:30:40.900

Phil: Yep, and then you would be able to, even if Facebook packed it in with this Quest, you'd still be able to use that as a standalone piece of hardware, I'm presuming.

00:30:41.060 --> 00:30:47.940

Tom: In theory, you would be able to, because presently you do need the Oculus software as well to be able to do this.

00:30:49.280 --> 00:30:56.080

Tom: But you would hope that there would be some third-party work around for this if that were to occur.

00:30:56.980 --> 00:30:59.120

Tom: Though it is yet to be jailbroken.

00:31:00.460 --> 00:31:02.860

Phil: Okay, that's a surprise.

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.760

Phil: But then again, it has only been six months.

00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:08.560

Phil: Who knows why that is.

00:31:08.600 --> 00:31:15.280

Phil: But, okay, so terms of games, I mean, as a platform, are games affordable on this device?

00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:29.160

Tom: Well, this is by far the worst part about it, is the whole, if you want to get it for stand alone, they are predominantly, the Oculus Store, in terms of pricing, is horrendous.

00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:35.140

Tom: The games are actually more than they are on Steam at their base price.

00:31:35.260 --> 00:31:45.320

Tom: For example, their Black Friday sale, the games were getting massive discounts, like 20% to 30% off.

00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:56.800

Tom: So, from that perspective, clearly they are expecting this to be predominantly a niche, enthusiast, luxury item, I assume.

00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:00.220

Phil: Yeah, well, they consider that you are a captive audience, you know.

00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:16.160

Tom: It is essentially, as far as I am aware, anyway, if your main purpose is to use it as a stand alone device, rather than with a computer, it is basically your only option.

00:32:16.780 --> 00:32:29.000

Tom: I don't think there are any other real competitors that run what are essentially mid-tier PS3 level games at such a high resolution available.

00:32:29.620 --> 00:32:34.260

Phil: I'm going to assume that this was not a gift and that you did not steal it or find it.

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.420

Phil: So, when you were making your purchasing decision, and is that correct?

00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:39.800

Phil: Is that correct, first of all, my assumptions?

00:32:40.940 --> 00:32:41.780

Tom: Yes and no.

00:32:41.820 --> 00:32:43.720

Tom: It was related to...

00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:51.120

Tom: I didn't find it, but it was related to payment for building a computer.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.620

Phil: Sweet, sweet, sweet.

00:32:53.900 --> 00:32:59.980

Phil: So, you didn't do any research into the different platforms like Steam, VRKit or this or that?

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:00.540

Tom: Well, I did.

00:33:00.560 --> 00:33:07.840

Tom: I did then, when I was considering getting such a thing, but also had some general knowledge of it.

00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:17.760

Tom: In terms of price, if you were getting this purely as a VR, PC VR headset, there is really no comparison.

00:33:17.780 --> 00:33:25.660

Tom: The closest two competitors are the Rift S, which runs at a significantly lower resolution.

00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:34.240

Tom: And the HP Reverb G2, which is about twice the price.

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:41.140

Tom: So the Rift S is the same sort of price as the 256 GB version.

00:33:43.620 --> 00:33:50.100

Tom: so even that is more expensive than the Quest 256, 64 GB version, sorry.

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.540

Tom: And the Reverb G2 is twice the price.

00:33:53.540 --> 00:34:00.400

Tom: Then if you are looking at ones like the Index, which isn't available in Australia anyway, that's like $3,000.

00:34:01.860 --> 00:34:07.060

Tom: So this actually has a nearly 4K screen.

00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:20.520

Tom: And the reason you want such a high resolution screen is because you were so close to the actual monitor, though in terms of sharpness, it may not matter that much due to the lenses.

00:34:22.220 --> 00:34:32.200

Tom: You want a tremendously high resolution because of the so-called screen door effect where you can easily see the spaces between each pixel.

00:34:32.900 --> 00:34:35.880

Tom: So that it is as if you are looking through a screen door.

00:34:37.540 --> 00:34:41.400

Phil: So would I I would be able to play Half-Life Alex on this?

00:34:41.420 --> 00:34:42.680

Phil: Yes, you would.

00:34:43.620 --> 00:34:46.160

Phil: Is there a Stanley Parable VR game?

00:34:46.180 --> 00:34:46.640

Phil: Who knows?

00:34:46.700 --> 00:34:47.180

Phil: I wonder.

00:34:48.660 --> 00:34:53.060

Phil: And in terms of watching other media on it, can you watch other media on it?

00:34:53.300 --> 00:34:54.100

Tom: Yes, you can.

00:34:54.380 --> 00:35:02.080

Tom: On cinema size screens and you can also watch 3D videos on it as well, obviously.

00:35:02.660 --> 00:35:06.800

Phil: So just while you're on that topic, the cinema size screens, how is that?

00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:07.660

Phil: Have you tried it?

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:08.760

Tom: Yes, I have.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:15.580

Tom: And a 4K video on a massive screen looks incredible.

00:35:17.180 --> 00:35:28.080

Tom: It is very much just like you are in a cinema, but in a cinema that has a great projector, as long as the resolution of the video you're watching is high.

00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:38.760

Tom: And a lot of cinemas you go to, particularly these days, have horrendous projectors or the people working the projectors are not very good at setting them up.

00:35:39.340 --> 00:35:53.300

Tom: So if you have a high quality video source, then the experience in terms of fidelity is as good as a very well projected cinema.

00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.000

Phil: Okay, so now thank you for that.

00:35:56.020 --> 00:35:58.020

Phil: Onto the big questions then.

00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.760

Phil: Obviously it's a tremendous value compared to the current consoles.

00:36:03.120 --> 00:36:07.500

Phil: And the current consoles also have prohibitively high pricing for the games library.

00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:08.760

Phil: I mean, you know, so...

00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:14.600

Tom: And this is technically less than their prohibitively high prices at that.

00:36:14.620 --> 00:36:15.000

Phil: That's right.

00:36:15.500 --> 00:36:17.220

Tom: As overpriced as it is.

00:36:18.020 --> 00:36:21.140

Phil: And the Xbox currently has no games.

00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:25.100

Phil: You know, that are killer apps.

00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:26.640

Phil: You know, like, there's nothing out there.

00:36:26.980 --> 00:36:35.260

Phil: The PlayStation 5 is apparently fairly janky, but it has the appeal of their new super cool haptic controller.

00:36:36.600 --> 00:36:38.460

Phil: But still no major killer apps.

00:36:38.680 --> 00:36:47.840

Phil: So, you know, here you've got a complete library of, I'm assuming at this point, tens of thousands of games available to you at varying ranges of value.

00:36:48.780 --> 00:37:07.320

Phil: The reason why I've never bought a VR kit is because I've never tried one, and I didn't want to go out and spend several hundred dollars on something, get at home and find out that it just either doesn't work or it makes me nauseous or you know, so how is it working for you?

00:37:07.580 --> 00:37:30.860

Tom: Well, that was the timing wise, one of the reasons I thought this would be a good opportunity to do it because in spite of the Facebook requirement, this has been massively hyped up and has elsewhere, not in Australia, there was no issue getting it for me, at least in terms of timing, been difficult for people to acquire.

00:37:30.900 --> 00:38:00.020

Tom: So judging by the amount of money that the original Quest were still going for used, I thought that if this did turn out to be totally unusable, it would probably still be possible to resell without too much of a loss, perhaps not over what it would cost to go and try out VR for $20 or $50 at a place in the city that displays VR, for example.

00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:09.900

Tom: So I thought the timing was good on that, and I was very much surprised at how well I have got on in VR so far.

00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:14.200

Tom: And it may be because I am used to living in a state of nausea.

00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:18.360

Phil: Did I bring up the word nausea?

00:38:18.380 --> 00:38:23.280

Phil: Because I was just thinking, you know, this morning it was like incredibly hot here, and it made me feel nauseous.

00:38:23.380 --> 00:38:25.720

Phil: And I've still got a really bad headache.

00:38:26.260 --> 00:38:30.000

Phil: So even thinking about VR at this point makes me want to hurl.

00:38:30.940 --> 00:38:37.700

Phil: So, but you, first of all, so it doesn't have a negative physical effect on you?

00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:39.640

Tom: Well, it depends on what.

00:38:40.240 --> 00:38:47.920

Tom: In things like racing, I do get on sudden acceleration, not so much on anything else.

00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:51.620

Tom: A slight feeling of motion sickness, but it is very little.

00:38:53.020 --> 00:38:54.040

Tom: It is manageable.

00:38:54.500 --> 00:39:00.220

Tom: In some, in free movement, things turning can be an issue.

00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:06.420

Tom: And I have been avoiding those sorts of games to begin with as I continue to acclimatize.

00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:19.920

Tom: Beyond that, other than my eyes getting used to staring at a new screen, even though that isn't really the sensation you have when using it, that is what you're literally doing.

00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.160

Tom: I haven't really had many effects.

00:39:22.160 --> 00:39:31.480

Tom: The main effects I've had from it have been from the weight of the device itself and the original strap that it comes with.

00:39:32.240 --> 00:39:35.540

Phil: Yeah, so I was going to ask, the process is on board as well.

00:39:35.560 --> 00:39:37.460

Phil: So surely that creates heat.

00:39:39.020 --> 00:40:03.460

Tom: Yeah, it is so far in my use, because if I am using an energetic game at all, which has usually been the main games I've been playing, my face and head heat up as well, I haven't really noticed much heat, because you are only touching the device directly through the foam surface that is pressed against your face.

00:40:04.460 --> 00:40:13.440

Tom: If you touch the device itself with your hands, you can feel that it is certainly hotter than room temperature, but it's not that hot.

00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:20.780

Tom: I don't think that is particularly an issue, at least if you are liable to warm up when you're actually using it.

00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:35.160

Tom: But in terms of weight with the default strap, it's again another advantage was it is one of the lightest VR headsets, but with the default strap it is that the vast majority of the weight is balanced on the front of your face.

00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:50.220

Tom: So with the default strap, unless you use a trick to push down the sides, the majority of weight for me anyway was basically on my cheekbones near my nose.

00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:57.840

Tom: So that resulted in a reasonable amount of fatigue for my face muscles.

00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:05.220

Tom: Doing the strap thing trick helped a lot, but it then put a lot of the weight onto the neck itself.

00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:13.840

Tom: So I ended up buying the tremendously overpriced elite strap by Oculus.

00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:16.940

Tom: It was simultaneously incredibly overpriced.

00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:18.080

Tom: I believe it is $79.

00:41:19.740 --> 00:41:38.160

Tom: And yet worth it, because that is essentially it replaces the elastic side straps with two plastic arms that are attached to a plastic arm, the back and two rubber cushions, which they're attached to.

00:41:38.440 --> 00:42:13.520

Tom: And you can tighten that using a circle, which you twist in either direction, and that essentially pulls the rigid straps closer and further apart, which being rigid obviously then distributes the weight to the back of your head as well, so that you end up with a much more centred mass, which obviously thus removes the stress from your neck, as well as without it placing all of the weight on your face as well.

00:42:14.060 --> 00:42:29.820

Tom: So if your issue with it is either is, once you have worked out how to get the weight off your face, so it's a little bit more evenly distributed, if you still end up with that having a lot of weight on your neck, then that would be likely to solve that problem.

00:42:30.140 --> 00:42:49.200

Tom: And in looking at reviews of these straps and all of this thing, I am surprised by how little into detail they go as to where the adjustments end up redistributing the weight to, which should be the starting point for all of these things.

00:42:49.240 --> 00:42:59.000

Tom: But clearly this sort of descriptive language is apparently not in the skill set for tech nerds to be able to express.

00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:11.260

Tom: So you have to just judge it by how logically physics would dictate that altering the structure of the device would end up distributing the weight.

00:43:13.020 --> 00:43:22.600

Phil: So in terms of the effect of it, so physically you're fine with it, now you've got the good strap.

00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:26.520

Phil: In terms of the nausea, we've talked about that, doesn't really affect you as much.

00:43:27.160 --> 00:43:34.660

Phil: In terms of it being a game changer for how you interact with games, does it work?

00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:48.240

Tom: Well, before that, we get to that, that would be, I would argue, predominantly the thing that is most taboo in talking about and selling VR to people, which is the controls, and we'll get to why that is in a moment.

00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:53.460

Tom: But we should, I mentioned the high resolution of the screen.

00:43:53.840 --> 00:44:37.560

Tom: The other great thing about the screen is, once you get into the sweet spot of it, unlike many headsets, in my experience anyway, I don't mean my experience with other headsets, but what people have said, once I'm in the sweet spot where everything is properly in focus and there is no colour blending from lens distortion and that sort of thing, if you look around with your eyes to the corners of the screen, they look just as sharp as the centre of the screen, so there is no weird sort of distortion effect, which would be, for me, tremendously annoying and probably results in eye strain.

00:44:40.060 --> 00:44:41.960

Tom: There are two disadvantages to the screen.

00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.340

Tom: One is it is LCD, not OLED.

00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:53.600

Tom: So it is very, for brightly coloured games that are very well lit, they look fine.

00:44:53.860 --> 00:45:05.140

Tom: For things that are a bit more grayscale or darker, then it does not look as good as an IPS monitor or an OLED television, as an example at all.

00:45:06.420 --> 00:45:09.280

Tom: The other disadvantage is the field of view.

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:26.260

Tom: And again, this is subjective because it depends entirely on what your peripheral vision is like and also your IPD, the distance between your pupils, and whether they match up well with the settings on the headset.

00:45:27.700 --> 00:45:46.960

Tom: For me, I have very good peripheral vision, and using it when it's perfectly aligned on the middle setting for the distance between my pupils, it is very much like you are looking through goggles, which is not an issue for me at all, and I actually prefer that.

00:45:47.060 --> 00:46:01.300

Tom: It would be a weird sensation if I had this massive thing stuck on my face, which extends to the corners of my eyes, and I could see beyond where I would actually be able to see with this stuck on my face.

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:12.980

Tom: I would actually find that more intrusive and that would be immersive and breaking for me, whereas other people might have the opposite effect, but it is a low field of view.

00:46:13.040 --> 00:46:30.860

Tom: So the money, other than the data collected by Facebook, the LCD screen and the small depth of field will be two areas where they are saving a lot of money compared to something like the Reverb G2 as an example.

00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:36.100

Phil: What about the hand controls themselves?

00:46:36.120 --> 00:46:43.660

Tom: Well, that's what we're getting to now, and to me, this is the most exciting part of VR.

00:46:43.680 --> 00:46:51.500

Tom: The immersion of the screen is absolutely there, for instance, if you are playing Superhot as an example.

00:46:52.040 --> 00:46:59.340

Tom: And one other thing I should add is a lot of the reviews are pretty critical of the sound.

00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:19.620

Tom: And absolutely in terms of being a very flat sort of audio with really weak basses, and basically they're like high quality laptop speakers or $100 USB desktop speakers by Logitech or something like that.

00:47:19.640 --> 00:47:27.340

Tom: They are that sort of standard of quality, though they are clearer than those, arguably just because they're right next to your ear.

00:47:27.700 --> 00:47:32.860

Tom: So they have the advantage of being like open headphones in a way.

00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:47.640

Tom: But what is really impressive about them is, given the cheap like quality of them, how well they are able to simulate a really accurate surround sound.

00:47:47.660 --> 00:48:11.800

Tom: So in Superhot, for example, if you are shot at and you dodge out of the way of a bullet, and it goes very close to your left ear, as an example, you can hear it going past your ear and behind you off into the distance in a perfectly natural way, exactly as you would expect the sound to behave.

00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:17.200

Tom: So the 3D audio that comes with it is tremendously impressive.

00:48:17.220 --> 00:48:24.380

Tom: Obviously, if you have decent earphones or headphones of any sort, you would immediately use them.

00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:36.260

Tom: But if you don't, the main thing that you would want out of it is its ability to do 3-dimensional surround sound well, and it does it incredibly well.

00:48:37.700 --> 00:48:43.220

Tom: So that was a huge surprise that it was as effective at surround sound as it was.

00:48:44.100 --> 00:48:47.380

Tom: So that aspect of immersion is fantastic as well.

00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:53.260

Tom: And again, in Superhot, actually a better example is Space Channel 5.

00:48:53.280 --> 00:49:22.480

Tom: In Space Channel 5, when you are being attacked by a comical giant robot, and it is punching you and you have to dodge out of the way, or an asteroid is coming at you, there is definitely the sensation that there is something coming to hit you and in Superhot, as another example at one moment, you have to jump off a building and that was slightly awkward as well.

00:49:23.340 --> 00:49:38.380

Tom: And if you are prone to being frightened of crashing a car, I can imagine that in Dirt Rally, you may have, or other racing sims, that would also be an intense experience.

00:49:39.140 --> 00:49:49.760

Tom: Judging by my bicycle riding escapades and my go-karting, I have no fear of dying in a vehicular car crash.

00:49:50.020 --> 00:50:02.060

Tom: So when I end up rolling in VR or driving into a wall, it is no more frightening or disturbing than it is on a monitor.

00:50:04.160 --> 00:50:07.440

Tom: So, but absolutely that immersion thing is there.

00:50:07.460 --> 00:50:23.220

Tom: But the best part of VR and the thing that I have found most enjoyable is, and is the best kept and most hidden secret of VR, and you can see why this is taboo, it's because gamers are fucking dickheads.

00:50:23.620 --> 00:50:27.520

Tom: VR is the Wii in 4K.

00:50:29.020 --> 00:50:51.600

Tom: The touch controllers, they use inside out tracking, so there are cameras on the headset that are streaming directly to Mark Zuckerberg, as well as filming what your controllers are doing, and the accuracy is on the level of, I would say, the, sorry, better than the Wii Motion Plus.

00:50:53.180 --> 00:51:05.460

Tom: The only disadvantage is, because it is inside out tracking, if you move your hands to beyond the peripheral vision, so called, of the headset, so behind you as an example, you will lose tracking.

00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:18.840

Tom: So if you want to throw something, you can't really move it back behind your head, and throw it over your head as you would naturally, if you were doing a baseball pitch as an example, because you will lose tracking there.

00:51:19.120 --> 00:51:21.500

Tom: That is the only limitation to the tracking.

00:51:22.620 --> 00:51:26.080

Phil: I think another limitation would be, there would be no bowling games.

00:51:26.900 --> 00:51:28.460

Tom: No, there are bowling games, because...

00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.640

Phil: Because your arm goes back behind your body.

00:51:30.860 --> 00:51:33.600

Tom: But when you were bowling, you were naturally looking down.

00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.800

Tom: So because the cameras are in the corners of the headset...

00:51:38.940 --> 00:51:41.880

Phil: Well, you should be looking straight ahead at all times.

00:51:42.120 --> 00:51:43.740

Phil: You shouldn't be looking down when you're bowling.

00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:45.220

Phil: You're not gonna...

00:51:45.600 --> 00:51:49.980

Phil: If you're worried about stepping over the line, then you're not really a professional bowler anyway.

00:51:51.660 --> 00:51:52.980

Tom: But your head is lowered.

00:51:53.460 --> 00:51:55.140

Phil: Your head is lowered, yeah.

00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:57.340

Tom: Listen, think about where...

00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.660

Tom: Let me just try this out here.

00:51:59.680 --> 00:52:00.860

Phil: All right, here we go.

00:52:01.600 --> 00:52:03.280

Phil: This is great, great radio.

00:52:05.620 --> 00:52:06.780

Phil: So Tom's now attempting to bowl.

00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:26.720

Tom: No, I can tell you, if you are throwing a baseball pitch, or bowling in cricket, or throwing in cricket to the wicket keeper and so forth, not only is your hand behind your head, you're also arching your back, right?

00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:34.420

Tom: So your hand ends up much further back than your hand ends up in bowling.

00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:40.360

Tom: Whereas in bowling, when you are in a sort of semi-kneeling position, you're talking about ten pin bowling, right?

00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:41.440

Tom: Yep, ten pin bowling.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:52.080

Tom: And your head is forward, and your arm is back, you're still your head, what you need to imagine is this.

00:52:52.080 --> 00:52:55.660

Tom: So the headset, the cameras are in the corners of the headset, right?

00:52:56.980 --> 00:52:59.960

Tom: And they can film to some degree behind themselves.

00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:02.180

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:53:02.200 --> 00:53:04.380

Phil: So they're not just forward facing then?

00:53:04.600 --> 00:53:06.540

Tom: No, they're not.

00:53:06.680 --> 00:53:14.780

Tom: Stick your arm out behind you in a bowling position, look with peripheral vision, and you should be able to just see it.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:15.720

Phil: Yes, you're right.

00:53:15.740 --> 00:53:21.840

Tom: Now if you do that, if you're in the position of throwing the ball to the wicket keeper, you should not be able to see your hand.

00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:38.180

Phil: Okay, so that's really good, because I imagine that bowling is quite an easy game to replicate, as I know from video games, because it's very simple physics and simple visuals.

00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:45.320

Phil: So I'd love to have a 10-pin bowling alley accessible to me at all times.

00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:48.860

Phil: Except I guess you've got to throw a virtual ball, that's the only downside.

00:53:49.240 --> 00:53:52.220

Phil: Well, you could be holding a real one, or could you with these controls?

00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.440

Tom: Well, they do have haptic feedback.

00:53:56.860 --> 00:54:01.860

Tom: it works very well or just feels like rumble depending on the game.

00:54:03.640 --> 00:54:20.120

Tom: And the only disadvantage, I would say, that these controllers have, which make them feel not as sorry, which make them feel as if they may be an area where some money was saved.

00:54:20.140 --> 00:54:21.100

Tom: It's not functional.

00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:23.840

Tom: It is in that they are very light.

00:54:24.100 --> 00:54:32.160

Tom: So when you're picking up heavy objects in VR, it does feel a little bit weird because the controllers are so light.

00:54:32.180 --> 00:54:36.420

Tom: They are lighter than the Wii controllers with batteries in them.

00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:41.000

Tom: Significantly lighter than the Wii Motion Plus controllers.

00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:42.920

Tom: They are really, really light.

00:54:43.860 --> 00:54:49.560

Tom: And the haptic feedback rumble is also not that strong.

00:54:50.640 --> 00:54:51.920

Tom: It is really accurate.

00:54:51.940 --> 00:55:07.120

Tom: So for instance, if you are shooting a bow in death, I think it's called as an example, you will feel the bow string sort of run across your hand in a direction as an example.

00:55:07.180 --> 00:55:10.200

Tom: So in games that make use of it, it has a great effect.

00:55:10.520 --> 00:55:18.580

Tom: But like the weight of the controller themselves, it would be great if the motor was a little bit stronger, but it is still great.

00:55:18.600 --> 00:55:26.580

Tom: And the tracking is absolutely amazing and incredibly impressive for inside out tracking as far as I'm aware.

00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:31.660

Tom: And I have not had any issues in terms of tracking from games.

00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:38.880

Tom: There are awkward things in games themselves that I think come about from the games rather than the tracking.

00:55:38.900 --> 00:55:42.800

Tom: For instance, throwing in super hot is incredibly awkward.

00:55:43.560 --> 00:55:49.620

Tom: If you're just trying to throw something forwards, it feels really random what you end up doing.

00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:59.920

Tom: If you are sort of flicking things like a frisbee in a smooth fluid motion, you can have some degree of predictability in what you're doing.

00:56:01.060 --> 00:56:03.320

Tom: But throwing there is really awkward.

00:56:05.100 --> 00:56:11.240

Tom: There is a demo of a sports, Wii Sports-like game that I tried.

00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:15.960

Tom: And the tracking is really impressive in that.

00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:19.180

Tom: And you can do bowling in that, and it worked perfectly fine.

00:56:19.740 --> 00:56:24.660

Tom: There was a bowling game, and that was a big issue, not unlike Superhot.

00:56:24.680 --> 00:56:36.420

Tom: And again, it is also probably caused, in some degree, by the basic limitations of inside-out tracking without being able to throw with proper technique.

00:56:36.620 --> 00:56:43.380

Tom: But there's a tennis mini game in it, and I am a regular wall tennis player.

00:56:43.420 --> 00:56:57.060

Tom: And unlike Wii Sports as an example, you can actually play tennis properly in it and have totally predictable ball behaviour from how you are hitting it.

00:56:57.060 --> 00:56:59.600

Tom: It is really, really impressive.

00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.580

Phil: That's exciting.

00:57:00.680 --> 00:57:01.440

Phil: That's exciting.

00:57:02.140 --> 00:57:03.260

Phil: What about grenade throwing?

00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:05.360

Tom: Grenade throwing?

00:57:05.640 --> 00:57:09.500

Tom: I'm not sure I've played any games in which you were throwing a grenade.

00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:17.160

Tom: Oh, wait, no, I played one second or so of what's it called?

00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.760

Tom: Pavlov Shack, which is on SideQuest.

00:57:21.780 --> 00:57:34.140

Tom: And if you do get it, make sure you get SideQuest because essentially there is the Oculus Store, then there is SideQuest, and you have to set up a developer account to be able to access SideQuest.

00:57:34.160 --> 00:57:41.480

Tom: But SideQuest is basically all the non-Facebook approved content that isn't curated by Facebook.

00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:49.880

Tom: So there is a huge amount of other games on there and a lot of other free content as well that is not there on the Oculus Storefront.

00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:58.020

Tom: And yes, grenade throwing in that was awkward like throwing objects in Superhot, though not as bad.

00:57:58.340 --> 00:58:02.420

Tom: And that is one game that I did have some issue with movement in.

00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:07.700

Tom: So I did not play that for much longer and just gone.

00:58:08.500 --> 00:58:27.120

Phil: What about games that where you basically are sitting on a couch and you're using the two hand controls as if it's basically just a PlayStation controller in two parts, but you're using your head to kind of see around, look up and down and all that sort of thing.

00:58:27.140 --> 00:58:28.500

Phil: I mean, is that a thing?

00:58:28.520 --> 00:58:56.820

Tom: Well, the impressive thing is, and for anyone who may be in a wheelchair, don't let that put you off playing VR because contrary to what even the game instructions will tell you, so many games can absolutely be played sitting down, like even something like Beat Saber, because obviously only the Valve Index, I think that's the only VR headset that has full body tracking.

00:58:57.180 --> 00:58:58.980

Tom: So nothing is tracking your legs.

00:58:59.860 --> 00:59:10.700

Tom: So you just calibrate your height to your seated position and you can easily play Beat Saber as long as you can lean left to right and forwards in your chair.

00:59:10.720 --> 00:59:16.920

Tom: You'll be able to dodge to the left, dodge to the right and dodge obstacles that are above your head height.

00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:25.160

Tom: So even games that seemingly would require you to be standing and more movement, you can actually play sitting down.

00:59:26.980 --> 00:59:30.780

Phil: So, I mean, that's an interesting point for people who are in wheelchairs.

00:59:31.200 --> 00:59:37.320

Phil: I mean, this opens up, in a way, a whole different world of experiences, wouldn't it?

00:59:37.560 --> 00:59:41.780

Phil: I mean, or is that just the same as watching a movie sort of thing?

00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:52.100

Tom: Well, it is not at all the same as watching a film because the brain absolutely does believe that it is in the environment that it is actually in.

00:59:54.360 --> 01:00:09.980

Phil: And a game or experience that people talk about Beat Saber as a must play, people talk about Super Hot as a must play, but the experience that I've heard the most about is the Google Maps Street View where you can basically walk around neighborhoods.

01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:11.720

Phil: Have you tried that?

01:00:11.740 --> 01:00:13.720

Tom: I have tried it.

01:00:13.740 --> 01:00:20.040

Tom: I have not walked around neighborhoods, but I have walked around a zoomed out area of the Great Canyon.

01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:21.080

Tom: What's it called?

01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:23.060

Tom: Grand Canyon.

01:00:23.900 --> 01:00:25.320

Phil: And it worked sufficiently?

01:00:25.540 --> 01:00:25.860

Tom: Yep.

01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:31.220

Tom: It is, I think, as a surreal experience, all the more enjoyable.

01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:37.300

Phil: Yeah, because usually people just talk about going to places where they used to go to school or where they used to live.

01:00:38.380 --> 01:00:39.860

Tom: Instead, be a giant.

01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:41.900

Tom: That's my advice.

01:00:44.520 --> 01:00:45.360

Phil: So that's what you did.

01:00:45.680 --> 01:00:46.040

Tom: Yes.

01:00:47.500 --> 01:01:19.520

Tom: And as far as surreal experiences are concerned, I need to look up more games, but I hope that this is being used for the surreal, because probably the best experience I've had on it, and I need to play it more, because I did this at the end of a session where my own natural orthostatic intolerance causing me to be in a state of severe nausea, and motion sickness was already to some degree there.

01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:30.960

Tom: So I couldn't play it for very long, as well as the slight motion sickness effect that I have from certain types of Moon VR, is a game called The Under Presence.

01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:39.060

Tom: And it has, the opening is a really surreal scene, and that's not what's special about it.

01:01:39.080 --> 01:01:43.400

Tom: What's special about it is the way you move in it is totally surreal.

01:01:43.600 --> 01:01:59.540

Tom: So you will essentially be pointing ahead, grabbing a hold of the world in the distance, and distorting it and pulling it towards you, and you will end up where you have pulled the world to you.

01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:04.260

Tom: And it is this amazing surreal effect.

01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:15.360

Tom: So I really hope that there are a lot of surreal indie games out there that may be doing interesting things in VR because it is a perfect effect.

01:02:15.380 --> 01:02:34.460

Tom: It's a pity, in fact, that surrealism has moved to away from random indie stuff that might be making use of this to massive commercial enterprises, such as music videos and K-pop, that would be less likely to be doing stuff like this.

01:02:34.640 --> 01:02:44.440

Phil: Well, look, if you look at the options there for recreating hallucinogenic experiences, installation art, you know, things like that...

01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:52.220

Tom: Well, I have downloaded Anne Frank VR as an example of that, but I'm yet to play it.

01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:52.840

Phil: Okay.

01:02:53.780 --> 01:03:01.680

Phil: Is there a lot of free content that's semi-educational or artistic that's available from governments or galaxies?

01:03:01.700 --> 01:03:02.560

Phil: What are those things called?

01:03:02.600 --> 01:03:03.360

Phil: Art galaxies.

01:03:03.740 --> 01:03:04.400

Phil: Art galleries.

01:03:04.420 --> 01:03:05.280

Tom: Art galaxies.

01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:08.340

Phil: Is there free stuff like that that's available?

01:03:09.680 --> 01:03:17.560

Tom: Well, the under-presence is free, and I'm not sure if that's just a 30-minute demo to a full thing, or if it is a full thing.

01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.860

Tom: There's Anne Frank VR.

01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:20.640

Tom: There are...

01:03:21.560 --> 01:03:22.800

Tom: They're outside...

01:03:22.820 --> 01:03:26.600

Tom: That's the two main things I've discovered on the Oculus Quest store.

01:03:26.980 --> 01:03:34.320

Tom: Outside of Oculus, when you go into the realm of PC VR, then there is a huge amount of stuff.

01:03:35.600 --> 01:03:40.400

Tom: So if you can connect to a computer, then there should be...

01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:43.620

Tom: There is absolutely a huge range of random shit.

01:03:44.560 --> 01:04:02.620

Tom: But I have not been able to explore that properly, because I have been playing the version of Space Channel 5 that I have wanted to be playing since I originally played the Space Channel 5 demo that came with a Ministry of Sounds CD.

01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:06.040

Phil: Now, do you want to get into Space Channel 5?

01:04:06.460 --> 01:04:10.620

Tom: Well, we will unless you have any other questions on the headset itself.

01:04:10.660 --> 01:04:12.060

Phil: I have a couple of questions.

01:04:12.900 --> 01:04:18.940

Phil: So right now, one of the great things about the new consoles and the Switch is that you're...

01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:22.100

Phil: Well, this is a lie.

01:04:23.380 --> 01:04:25.180

Phil: Because of updates and things like that.

01:04:26.200 --> 01:04:29.720

Phil: But like, if on the Switch, for example, there's very few updates.

01:04:29.740 --> 01:04:38.960

Phil: So, you know, if you're going into a game, you're usually playing within, I'd say, 15 seconds of turning on the device.

01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:42.740

Phil: Especially if you're in handheld mode.

01:04:43.620 --> 01:04:47.060

Phil: What's the entry process like from...

01:04:47.160 --> 01:04:48.940

Phil: Oh, I want to play a VR game.

01:04:49.480 --> 01:04:53.400

Phil: From that thought to playing the actual game, what's the process like?

01:04:53.860 --> 01:04:55.560

Tom: It totally depends on the game.

01:04:56.440 --> 01:05:01.760

Tom: Some have basically instantaneous loading time.

01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:05.240

Tom: Some will take 20 seconds to load.

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:11.360

Tom: Once the games have actually loaded though, there usually isn't much loading within the games themselves.

01:05:11.540 --> 01:05:16.160

Phil: But like, boot up time, like you go to turn it on, I assume there's an on button on the device itself.

01:05:16.560 --> 01:05:31.740

Tom: So for the console itself, you stick it on your head, there will be a three dot sign for a few seconds, then it will be on if you have already set up the area in which you're able to move around.

01:05:32.040 --> 01:05:37.500

Tom: So booting up the console itself is very, very quick.

01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:50.180

Phil: So if you're basically going to be playing this device in one area, like your game room or office or whatever, there's no need to recalibrate it every time you put it on?

01:05:50.680 --> 01:05:51.180

Tom: Correct.

01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:55.240

Phil: Have you tried using this outdoors?

01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:07.780

Tom: You're not meant to, which I think is due to direct sunlight potentially getting on the lenses, though how it would be likely to do that through your face.

01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:11.720

Tom: And the plastic of the headset itself, I'm not sure.

01:06:11.740 --> 01:06:14.920

Tom: I have played it in several different rooms.

01:06:14.940 --> 01:06:16.600

Tom: I have not played it outside.

01:06:16.640 --> 01:06:19.520

Tom: I may play it on the veranda at some point.

01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:21.920

Phil: Would you be able to...

01:06:23.180 --> 01:06:31.980

Phil: I wonder if there's a virtual office environment, so you could actually be using Word or Excel or Windows for that matter.

01:06:32.000 --> 01:06:44.540

Tom: There are indeed virtual office environments you can get from it, and I believe some of them can also function as an augmented reality office so that you can see stuff on your desk and so on and so forth.

01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:44.980

Phil: Yeah.

01:06:45.100 --> 01:06:56.800

Phil: And in terms of other applications, like communications or applications, like Zoom or Skype, things like that, I mean, would you know if you were able to use it?

01:06:56.820 --> 01:07:02.320

Phil: Are you able to use vanilla Skype and it's just basically on the screen in front of you if you're having a video conference?

01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:04.160

Tom: I'm not sure about that.

01:07:04.680 --> 01:07:13.060

Tom: There are certainly some of the office programs have video conferencing and collaborative connective stuff available.

01:07:13.060 --> 01:07:24.860

Tom: I'm not sure if you can use standalone stuff though, but you should be able to, I assume, through things like SideQuest because it is just an Android system.

01:07:26.060 --> 01:07:36.280

Phil: Games that, well, indeed a video conference full of people wearing quests on their face probably isn't useful because you just see a bunch of people with quests on their face.

01:07:37.420 --> 01:07:43.660

Phil: Games that have you fly, have you had any flying games like Sky or Children of Light?

01:07:43.680 --> 01:07:50.700

Tom: I have flown in a car to my death several times.

01:07:51.720 --> 01:07:55.140

Phil: Driving, you don't have a gaming rig with a steering wheel or anything?

01:07:56.060 --> 01:08:00.100

Tom: I have a Logitech Driving Force GT.

01:08:00.340 --> 01:08:02.680

Phil: And is this thing compatible with any of those?

01:08:04.300 --> 01:08:05.900

Tom: You can't use it with the Quest itself.

01:08:06.300 --> 01:08:10.220

Tom: You can use it with playing those games via PC VR.

01:08:11.540 --> 01:08:12.400

Phil: Have you tried that yet?

01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:13.580

Tom: Yes, I have.

01:08:13.640 --> 01:08:15.340

Tom: I have played Dirt Rally.

01:08:16.100 --> 01:08:16.400

Phil: And?

01:08:17.340 --> 01:08:18.980

Tom: It works amazingly well.

01:08:19.460 --> 01:08:23.760

Tom: The big advantage to it is corner turning.

01:08:23.940 --> 01:08:46.200

Tom: You can much more easily see when you should be starting to turn due to obviously the night and day difference in depth perception, but also the huge improvement to peripheral vision, because even though it's not as wide as your actual peripheral vision, it's obviously much better than a monitor.

01:08:46.220 --> 01:08:54.860

Tom: To get the same sort of peripheral vision, you would need to be using a 3D monitor setup, and you would not have the depth perception there.

01:08:55.540 --> 01:09:00.220

Tom: In a game like Dirt Rally, this would not be an issue in a track racing game.

01:09:00.440 --> 01:09:22.320

Tom: The big disadvantage to it is it really shows off, which you can feel and see normally, but it doesn't feel viscerally, to misuse the term as wrong, is things like troughs and gutters along the side of the road, half a meter or a meter deep.

01:09:22.340 --> 01:09:23.740

Tom: They're these massive things.

01:09:24.100 --> 01:09:37.020

Tom: If you drop a wheel or two wheels into it, the car will just be a little bit tilted to the side, and you will not be losing that much control of the car, which is okay on a monitor.

01:09:37.320 --> 01:09:51.760

Tom: In VR, it feels a little bit ridiculous and stupid that you're not just falling off the side of the road or rolling, or the car is not at least at a 30 to 40 degree angle and going totally out of control.

01:09:52.100 --> 01:09:59.320

Tom: So that is actually arguably an immersive immersion braking aspect of VR that occurs.

01:09:59.560 --> 01:10:14.240

Tom: But it is amazing to be sitting in the car next to the co-driver, and in terms of if you want to improve your sim racing ability, it massively helps.

01:10:14.620 --> 01:10:23.660

Tom: After doing a little bit of racing in VR, going back to using a monitor, I was actually much better on corner turning.

01:10:23.900 --> 01:10:34.440

Tom: I was much more aggressive and aggressive in a way that didn't result in me entering the corner far too soon and crashing into something.

01:10:34.460 --> 01:10:51.200

Tom: So for sim racing, if you can deal with the motion sickness, which I can as long as I'm not playing for too long, it is absolutely a useful thing to have and it is significantly more fun obviously.

01:10:51.420 --> 01:11:01.400

Tom: But it does for something like Dirt Rally have drawbacks of showing off some of the unrealistic aspects of the physics in the game.

01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:05.260

Phil: That reminds me, I've been meaning to talk to you about cruise control.

01:11:05.280 --> 01:11:09.260

Phil: I'll just break out for a trademark banter here to give your voice a bit of a rest.

01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:19.180

Phil: I've got a fairly new car, a Honda Civic, and I haven't had a new car, like a new car, a new car since like the year 2000.

01:11:19.580 --> 01:11:26.820

Phil: I've had newer cars than a car that's made in the year 2000 obviously, but I haven't had one that's got all the new tech in it.

01:11:27.060 --> 01:11:39.480

Phil: And this car has got a lot of pep, but I've completely gamified my driving experience now because it's got this thing that's telling you how much fuel you're using every single second.

01:11:40.480 --> 01:11:42.720

Phil: And then you can work on lowering your average.

01:11:43.120 --> 01:11:46.080

Phil: So instead of wanting a big number, you want a little number.

01:11:46.100 --> 01:11:53.200

Phil: So I've been using cruise control and just all these different eco modes and everything while I'm driving.

01:11:54.640 --> 01:12:01.420

Phil: It has a sports mode, and the car has incredible acceleration and handling and all the rest of it.

01:12:01.440 --> 01:12:08.620

Phil: But I haven't been using it because I'm obsessed with getting my, my petrol consumption as low as possible because it's a game to me, right?

01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:11.280

Phil: So I'm like going the speed limit and things like that now.

01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:17.560

Phil: And I've got my speed limit, I've got my gas consumption down to 5.4 liters per hundred kilometers.

01:12:18.080 --> 01:12:18.940

Phil: Yep.

01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:27.240

Phil: In the car, when you first get into it, it's saying, oh, you know, like 6.5, and I'm down to 5.4 consistently now, which I'm happy about.

01:12:28.380 --> 01:12:36.640

Phil: And it's funny because, you know, I'm saving, you know, resources, and I'm also driving more safely as a result, which is really unfortunate because it's got a lot of pickup.

01:12:37.620 --> 01:12:46.740

Phil: But one of the things about the steering wheel, which is another thing that's just, you know, it's a 2019 Honda Civic, I think, might be 2018.

01:12:48.140 --> 01:12:58.540

Phil: On the steering wheel itself, it has two directional pads on the steering wheel, as well as five other face buttons.

01:12:59.400 --> 01:13:06.480

Phil: So while you're driving, you've essentially got a game controller that is there that you're controlling with your thumbs.

01:13:06.740 --> 01:13:11.280

Tom: So it's in fact like the Driving Force GT, which has a D-pad on it.

01:13:11.820 --> 01:13:16.200

Phil: Yeah, I guess, but I've never used cruise control to this extent.

01:13:16.220 --> 01:13:20.040

Phil: I'm using it almost compulsively with my foot off the accelerator.

01:13:20.480 --> 01:13:23.760

Phil: Like my foot is just completely away from the accelerator in the brake.

01:13:24.160 --> 01:13:28.360

Phil: And I'm using cruise control pretty much to handle all of my acceleration.

01:13:28.980 --> 01:13:31.780

Phil: Because I have a fairly predictable commute.

01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:33.300

Phil: I go to the same place every single day.

01:13:33.320 --> 01:13:34.900

Phil: I come home from the same place every single day.

01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:40.520

Phil: So I know exactly when to muck around with the cruise control, so I don't necessarily have to brake.

01:13:42.120 --> 01:13:48.640

Phil: But yeah, I just thought, you know, there was a gamification moment, and you just bring up your driving there.

01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:51.820

Phil: Mike, question about, three more questions.

01:13:52.360 --> 01:13:56.000

Tom: Hypermiling enthusiasts are a thing, by the way.

01:13:56.020 --> 01:13:56.420

Phil: Is it?

01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.060

Tom: Yeah, that is a popular pastime for people.

01:14:00.280 --> 01:14:01.240

Phil: I can see why.

01:14:01.320 --> 01:14:04.280

Phil: It's very addictive or addicting.

01:14:04.860 --> 01:14:13.180

Phil: Okay, so what is the longest game session you've had with this thing on, and what's the battery life support in terms of gaming sessions?

01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:26.120

Phil: And does it get unpleasant, no matter how comfortable the game is that you're playing, does it get uncomfortable at a certain point where you would stop earlier than if you were just gaming with a traditional controller?

01:14:27.360 --> 01:14:41.500

Tom: Well, the first day of getting it, I probably used it for a total of two to three hours maybe, but that was not in the one session that was broken up.

01:14:42.320 --> 01:14:49.040

Tom: Probably the one single session would be maybe an hour and a half at the most.

01:14:50.120 --> 01:14:54.760

Tom: The battery, I have not run into it running out.

01:14:54.780 --> 01:15:04.660

Tom: I would speculate that it would probably last over two hours at least, up to maybe three and a half hours.

01:15:05.740 --> 01:15:20.160

Tom: I think the general estimate people have is two hours, but in my experience, if I've been playing for an hour, it does not use up 50% of its charge according to the meter.

01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:25.320

Tom: But of course, it may run out faster once you have a lower battery.

01:15:25.580 --> 01:15:28.140

Tom: It also charges extremely fast.

01:15:28.200 --> 01:15:44.900

Tom: I haven't timed it, but I have seen it down in a low range, and it gets to fully charged in under 30 or 40 minutes, I think was the time I went back to it.

01:15:45.260 --> 01:15:47.320

Tom: So it charges extremely quickly.

01:15:47.620 --> 01:15:55.280

Tom: The most impressive thing is the batteries that it comes with and the amount of power the controllers use.

01:15:55.800 --> 01:16:06.180

Tom: After probably a total of somewhere between anywhere between 5 to 10 hours, they are both still at 100% charge.

01:16:06.700 --> 01:16:09.760

Tom: So they appear to not use any power at all.

01:16:12.120 --> 01:16:15.640

Phil: Is it a consumer repairable friendly headset itself?

01:16:15.660 --> 01:16:22.240

Phil: Like if the battery does eventually die, will you be able to put a new battery in it, or would you then just have to have it hooked up to power the whole time?

01:16:23.140 --> 01:16:25.200

Tom: Well, I don't think you can hook it up to power.

01:16:25.200 --> 01:16:28.180

Tom: I think you would probably need to send it to Oculus.

01:16:29.340 --> 01:16:38.020

Tom: It does not appear like the sort of device that would be easy to disassemble or anything like that.

01:16:39.020 --> 01:16:47.820

Tom: And as an example of that, you can get an extra battery that you attach to the Elite Strap.

01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.140

Tom: I think you may need to get a different version of the Elite Strap to do this, of course.

01:16:51.940 --> 01:16:56.820

Tom: But that, for instance, you then plug into the USB-C port.

01:16:58.160 --> 01:17:01.960

Tom: So you can't use Link at the same time as an example of that.

01:17:02.120 --> 01:17:03.500

Tom: But that's an example of...

01:17:04.860 --> 01:17:07.680

Tom: It's not like you can replace the battery with a more powerful one.

01:17:07.700 --> 01:17:13.740

Tom: So I would suspect if you did have issues, you would probably require professional maintenance.

01:17:14.040 --> 01:17:19.140

Tom: Certainly aesthetically, they're clearly trying to copy the Apple model.

01:17:19.160 --> 01:17:22.900

Tom: It's not white, but it is a very light gray.

01:17:23.580 --> 01:17:24.540

Tom: It comes in...

01:17:25.500 --> 01:17:27.680

Tom: The inside of the box is white packaging.

01:17:28.220 --> 01:17:32.640

Tom: The outside is a generic gray cardboard.

01:17:34.040 --> 01:17:35.860

Tom: And it is generally...

01:17:35.900 --> 01:17:40.540

Tom: The cover being a printed cardboard that you slide off.

01:17:40.540 --> 01:17:44.080

Tom: So it is very much going for the Apple minimalist look.

01:17:44.920 --> 01:17:50.560

Tom: I would suspect they're probably also going for the Apple awkward to deal with as well.

01:17:51.420 --> 01:18:01.480

Phil: Okay, so the last question I have, and it is unfortunate because, you know, someone who likes to hang on to their consoles like me, there's always a workaround in terms of how the...

01:18:01.680 --> 01:18:02.960

Phil: how you can keep using them.

01:18:03.020 --> 01:18:11.420

Phil: So like the controllers that have dead batteries, you can permanently hook up with a USB and it still work and things like that.

01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:20.180

Tom: And we are entirely speculating at this point because it has not been available for a particularly long period of time.

01:18:20.200 --> 01:18:24.980

Tom: I think the official release was this month.

01:18:25.960 --> 01:18:28.660

Tom: Maybe it was the month before, but it is a very new thing.

01:18:29.100 --> 01:18:40.360

Tom: So for that sort of stuff, we will find out more as it unfolds, just as we will find out about the durability of the next-gen consoles with time as well.

01:18:40.380 --> 01:18:40.820

Phil: That's right.

01:18:40.840 --> 01:18:41.320

Phil: That's right.

01:18:41.340 --> 01:18:47.780

Phil: And I'm sure with a lot of these things, people are like, well, by the time you're under the Quest 5, who cares if your Quest 2 is working?

01:18:47.860 --> 01:19:02.560

Phil: And that's unfortunately, we're supposed to be more environmentally aware, but we're consuming and destroying electronics with disregard, you know, at a rate higher than ever before in history, obviously.

01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:08.340

Tom: The packaging, at least, you can reuse as a case for it quite effectively.

01:19:08.500 --> 01:19:08.960

Phil: Okay.

01:19:09.400 --> 01:19:13.480

Phil: Hey, last question, and then we'll ask for your impressions of Space Channel 5.

01:19:15.060 --> 01:19:18.700

Phil: Fit and finish, does it feel flimsy?

01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:19.860

Phil: Does it feel solid?

01:19:20.820 --> 01:19:22.580

Phil: Does it feel like you're going to break it?

01:19:23.500 --> 01:19:26.500

Phil: Does it actually feel good, the headset and the controllers?

01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:31.080

Tom: It feels a lot better than I was expecting and surprisingly durable.

01:19:31.980 --> 01:19:40.860

Tom: The headset itself, unless you are removing the straps and doing things like that to it, it feels really solid.

01:19:41.040 --> 01:19:48.940

Tom: When you're putting it on and off, if you accidentally push it on very quickly or something like that, it doesn't feel like it's going to break.

01:19:48.960 --> 01:20:20.180

Tom: The only thing there, but it doesn't feel like it is at all flimsy when you're doing this, when you have the glasses spacer in, which I need to have, even though I don't wear glasses, without my eyelashes brushing against the lenses, when I have that on and the strap really tight, if I take it off before loosening the strap a little bit, sometimes the spacer will pop out and I have to click it back into place.

01:20:21.360 --> 01:20:24.180

Tom: Other than that, the headset itself feels really solid.

01:20:24.560 --> 01:20:33.200

Tom: And the controllers, even though they're really light, they feel really solid in your hands and I have bumped into things with them repeatedly.

01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:52.680

Tom: And so far, even though the little halo that goes over the top of the controller, which I assume senses where your thumb is, and is also there probably to protect the buttons and your hand as well from when you hit things, that is totally unaffected.

01:20:52.700 --> 01:20:56.940

Tom: It doesn't even have any scratches on it from bumping into things either.

01:20:57.200 --> 01:21:07.660

Tom: So it is better than I was expecting in terms of durability so far, though it is too early to make any proper judgement on that.

01:21:08.180 --> 01:21:17.120

Tom: And also it feels surprisingly solid in spite of the lightness of both the headset and the controllers themselves.

01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:24.560

Tom: The Elite Strap, on the other hand, does feel like it is going to break every time you are adjusting the strap.

01:21:25.600 --> 01:21:27.140

Tom: That feels really flimsy.

01:21:28.260 --> 01:21:32.000

Tom: And I do believe that a lot of people have had that breaking for them.

01:21:33.160 --> 01:21:39.000

Tom: But it obviously automatically comes with a warranty under Australian Consumer Law.

01:21:41.120 --> 01:21:44.640

Phil: Is the Die of Destiny ready to give this a score for a hardware review?

01:21:45.660 --> 01:21:47.800

Tom: Well, let me get the Die of Destiny.

01:21:49.060 --> 01:21:49.860

Phil: Can you still hear me?

01:21:50.840 --> 01:21:51.520

Tom: Yes, I can.

01:21:51.780 --> 01:21:52.940

Phil: Okay.

01:21:54.260 --> 01:22:04.720

Tom: I have the Die of Destiny here ready to score the Oculus Quest 2 from Facebook.

01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:21.320

Tom: And the Oculus Quest 2 from Facebook, would you believe, and perhaps this is the correct score to give it, given the requirement of a Facebook account, gets a zero out of ten.

01:22:22.160 --> 01:22:27.360

Phil: See, from your review, I was thinking more of an eight, or even an eight and a half.

01:22:27.440 --> 01:22:30.260

Tom: That was zero out of ten.

01:22:30.480 --> 01:22:36.960

Tom: You would have been expecting a high score, given that I called it the Wii in 4K, and the Wii remains.

01:22:37.180 --> 01:22:48.080

Tom: I think with time, the more I think about the Wii, the higher, the more highly I think of it, I think the Wii is probably my favourite console of all time.

01:22:48.440 --> 01:22:58.200

Tom: And now that I have been exposed to VR, I would argue it is the most significant console of all time.

01:22:58.400 --> 01:23:09.880

Tom: Because while obviously one important improvement required for the feasible VR we have now was improvement obviously in processing power and screens.

01:23:10.900 --> 01:23:14.440

Tom: You can't attribute that to any console's influence.

01:23:14.820 --> 01:23:26.480

Tom: The other thing that is the most important to VR being viable and enjoyable and interesting experience is some immersive way of being able to interact the world in which you are in.

01:23:26.840 --> 01:23:43.400

Tom: And obviously motion controls were the catalyst that led us to the solidification of VR as being a genuine niche market at least, even if it's not a mainstream thing like gaming in general is now.

01:23:43.420 --> 01:23:53.800

Tom: So the Wii, I would argue, other than obviously early home consoles, is the most significant console of all time.

01:23:54.160 --> 01:24:02.280

Phil: Yeah, I'd have to think about that, but I certainly enjoyed every single game in my Wii catalog, as I recall.

01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:16.860

Phil: The one thing you never really confronted, and I hate to do this because you've already given a score, but you said, oh, there's this annoying thing that reviewers do, and ultimately you're recommending this device, but you wouldn't recommend it for me necessarily, right?

01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:19.800

Phil: Because you can't.

01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:24.740

Phil: Until I've tried it, you can't really recommend VR to anyone.

01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:33.980

Tom: That's true, I would say, but I personally was surprised with how well I got on with it.

01:24:34.060 --> 01:24:49.980

Tom: And as I said, and while this is a joke, it's also not a joke, I may have got on so well with it to begin with due to me already being naturally climatized to nausea and motion sickness and dizziness.

01:24:52.100 --> 01:24:54.900

Tom: So I may not even be noticing the crippling dizziness.

01:24:55.280 --> 01:25:03.900

Phil: So of all the games that you played, all these amazing experiences you've had, you've played some first person shooters, haven't you?

01:25:05.580 --> 01:25:12.940

Tom: Yes, but only briefly because those were some that did actually cause some degree of annoying motion sickness.

01:25:20.320 --> 01:25:28.480

Tom: In things that do cause a slight effect, the more I use it, I am definitely noticing that that does go down with time.

01:25:28.780 --> 01:25:34.300

Tom: So getting acclimatised to it is certainly a real phenomenon.

01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:35.500

Phil: Is it acclimated or acclimatised?

01:25:38.540 --> 01:25:43.100

Tom: I believe it would be a question of cultural usage.

01:25:43.880 --> 01:25:44.880

Phil: That gets you off the hook.

01:25:46.140 --> 01:25:52.880

Phil: We are going to talk about a game later on called One Night Stand.

01:25:52.900 --> 01:25:58.500

Phil: The game doesn't have any provocative imagery, necessarily, it's not risque.

01:25:59.540 --> 01:26:06.760

Phil: But there are certain games like that that I feel uncomfortable playing when other people are around because they walk in the room and they get the wrong impression.

01:26:07.260 --> 01:26:11.000

Tom: And with VR on, you wouldn't even know if they were there.

01:26:11.020 --> 01:26:11.400

Phil: That's right.

01:26:12.420 --> 01:26:16.320

Phil: But could I play One Night Stand on my VR headset?

01:26:18.420 --> 01:26:19.400

Tom: One Night Stand specifically?

01:26:19.420 --> 01:26:20.440

Phil: Yeah, or a game like that.

01:26:21.200 --> 01:26:26.040

Phil: A game that's obviously not built for VR support, doesn't have any features.

01:26:26.060 --> 01:26:29.200

Phil: I just basically want to use my VR headset as a screen.

01:26:31.540 --> 01:26:32.760

Phil: Just use the hand.

01:26:33.460 --> 01:26:39.720

Tom: You can play any game on computer you want on the headset.

01:26:40.220 --> 01:26:48.780

Tom: And if it is a 2D as opposed to a 3D game, you essentially can just play it as if you were playing a game in a cinema.

01:26:48.800 --> 01:26:50.340

Tom: So you can play it on a massive screen.

01:26:50.360 --> 01:26:53.020

Phil: Do you have to use the Oculus controllers or can you use your keyboard and mouse?

01:26:54.340 --> 01:27:02.480

Tom: No, you would in those cases be using other controllers because they would not be compatible with the touch controllers.

01:27:03.260 --> 01:27:06.640

Phil: I told you we should just wipe out the rest of the show.

01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:17.780

Tom: But with One Night Stand, because that is mouse controlled, you actually should in theory be able to play that using the touch controller because you can use that as a mouse pointer.

01:27:18.200 --> 01:27:24.360

Tom: You could even theoretically use your hand with hand tracking on because you can use your hand as a mouse pointer.

01:27:25.240 --> 01:27:27.280

Tom: So you could play it totally controllerless.

01:27:27.300 --> 01:27:28.820

Phil: Well, you've sold me.

01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:42.260

Phil: I guess the one thing we didn't talk about was the social aspect of it, and that is, you know, if there's other people in your household, how has that had an impact on you and your interaction with them, or do they usually not interact with you when you're gaming anyway?

01:27:44.500 --> 01:27:52.900

Tom: Well, one thing to note there is, it is extremely easy to stream this to any television that has Chromecast.

01:27:54.940 --> 01:28:04.280

Tom: And even if you don't have Chromecast, you can stream it to mobile phones, and you can stream it to your browser as well.

01:28:04.280 --> 01:28:24.240

Tom: So how that works then is, obviously the person playing the game sees what's happening in the headset, and what they see is then streamed to the television browser or mobile phone, so that if anyone is watching what the person is doing, they can watch what's happening in the game itself as well.

01:28:24.240 --> 01:28:31.320

Phil: That's good, because if you're watching VR, if you're participating in VR porn, that way when they come in the room, they see it on the big screen TV, they know to leave.

01:28:32.540 --> 01:28:33.960

Tom: And quietly leave, exactly.

01:28:34.220 --> 01:28:34.640

Phil: Awesome.

01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:36.480

Phil: Okay, alright.

01:28:36.580 --> 01:28:38.100

Tom: So that solves that problem.

01:28:38.160 --> 01:28:40.440

Phil: Except for the pants being down, but you know.

01:28:40.860 --> 01:28:41.220

Phil: Now...

01:28:42.580 --> 01:28:44.180

Tom: Just face away from the door.

01:28:44.420 --> 01:28:46.460

Phil: So that's your advice.

01:28:47.900 --> 01:28:49.080

Phil: So of all the game...

01:28:49.840 --> 01:28:52.500

Tom: Not based on experience, just theoretically.

01:28:52.740 --> 01:28:54.140

Phil: So of all the games...

01:28:54.740 --> 01:29:03.040

Tom: But as a social experience, porn or otherwise, VR is hilarious in the same way that the Wii is.

01:29:03.060 --> 01:29:08.960

Tom: I was not expecting that to be the case, given that one person is stuck in the game.

01:29:09.260 --> 01:29:12.640

Tom: But watching someone play VR, even if you can't...

01:29:12.700 --> 01:29:38.940

Tom: Arguably, I would actually add that the most entertaining thing is to watch someone playing VR without it being streamed to something, because it has the same sort of surreal and amusing effect as interacting with someone during a schizophrenic seizure or on some sort of psychoactive drug.

01:29:39.380 --> 01:29:42.560

Tom: It is a hilarious thing to behold.

01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:49.740

Phil: Okay, so of all the games that you've played, you want to tell us in great detail about one of them and it's Space Channel 5.

01:29:51.140 --> 01:29:59.760

Tom: The one last thing I will add on the headset itself is, as I said, you can play PC VR games via Wi-Fi.

01:30:00.260 --> 01:30:11.920

Tom: And using the crappy Telstra 5 GHz router, I was absolutely shocked how well it works.

01:30:13.160 --> 01:30:18.240

Tom: I anyway can play things like boxing games on it perfectly adequately.

01:30:18.540 --> 01:30:27.740

Tom: If I was doing something like sim racing, I would probably want to either try that on a 6 GHz router or use Link.

01:30:28.420 --> 01:30:36.800

Tom: But for anything that does not require the absolutely most precise things, my experience is that it is totally playable.

01:30:37.020 --> 01:30:44.980

Tom: And I would not play something like Half-Life Alex via Link Cable based on my experience with Superhot.

01:30:45.180 --> 01:31:01.460

Tom: The enjoyment you get from playing something wireless in something like a boxing game or Superhot, where you're able to move around with the only limitation on freedom being the space of room you're in, is just incredible.

01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:33.280

Tom: The totally ridiculous things you can do in Superhot, for example, of rolling around on the floor to pick up weapons enemies have dropped that you would not be able to do without this ridiculous freedom of movement, and also the totally absurd way you can dodge things through having the freedom of movement as well, makes playing any game like that with a lead feel just totally unplayable by comparison.

01:31:33.480 --> 01:31:43.700

Tom: And it is worth even on a 5, the just noticeable tiny bit of latency on a 5 gigahertz router, it is absolutely worth that without any question.

01:31:44.140 --> 01:31:55.580

Tom: So that is, to me, one of the things that did greatly put me off VR was actually the fact that you had to be tethered to something while playing them.

01:31:55.680 --> 01:32:00.440

Tom: That seemed to me like it would be a massive limitation and it absolutely was.

01:32:00.940 --> 01:32:41.140

Tom: As a primary VR headset outside of things like SIMS, I would, if you have the same suspicions that that might be an issue, I would argue that this is, without any other option, particularly at the price point, the best PC VR headset because you, through Air Lite VR, which is slightly awkward to set up, but once it's set up, it works perfectly, you can essentially have a high-resolution wireless PC VR headset for $488, which is just absolutely incredible.

01:32:41.900 --> 01:32:42.760

Phil: Right, indeed.

01:32:43.880 --> 01:32:44.720

Phil: So, on to the game.

01:32:46.400 --> 01:32:53.180

Tom: Yep, Space Channel 5, kinder, funky, newsflash VR, I think, is the full title.

01:32:53.980 --> 01:33:02.600

Tom: I, as I said, first played Space Channel 5 on a demo from a Ministry of Sound CD.

01:33:03.260 --> 01:33:12.120

Tom: Ministry of Sound was a long-running, may still be around, compilation of techno songs that was released yearly.

01:33:14.160 --> 01:33:17.700

Tom: And one year they packaged Space Channel 5 with it.

01:33:18.060 --> 01:33:27.440

Tom: And Space Channel 5 is by the original, was made, directed by Mizuguchi, famous for res, among many other things.

01:33:27.920 --> 01:33:44.860

Tom: And to me, Space Channel 5, in terms of the aesthetic and setting, was with the only two other competitors, Vib Ribbon and Parappa the Rapper, the greatest rhythm game ever.

01:33:45.620 --> 01:34:02.560

Tom: The music was this hilarious mix of electronica, basically comedy musical lyrics over the top of it that told you what to do, and had little snippets of dialogue related to the story.

01:34:02.980 --> 01:34:09.960

Tom: And the aesthetic was that of a 60s, 70s disco scene slash pop scene of the 60s.

01:34:10.500 --> 01:34:14.120

Tom: And Ulala was this amazingly charismatic character.

01:34:14.900 --> 01:34:20.220

Tom: The space setting was great, and I believe it also featured Michael Jackson in a cameo.

01:34:21.120 --> 01:34:23.940

Phil: That's right, Space Michael and Pudding.

01:34:24.300 --> 01:34:27.700

Phil: I played and owned all of the Space Channel 5 games.

01:34:27.720 --> 01:34:30.920

Phil: I think the original came out 20 years ago, in the year 2000.

01:34:32.060 --> 01:34:34.220

Tom: I think 1999, so even...

01:34:34.240 --> 01:34:40.020

Phil: I don't think it was that close to launch actually, because remember the system came out in September of 1999.

01:34:40.040 --> 01:34:43.960

Tom: I'm sure it launched in 1999, probably not outside of Japan though.

01:34:44.880 --> 01:34:45.580

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:34:45.740 --> 01:34:51.520

Phil: And anyone who's ever played it, all you have to do is say, up, down, up, down, shoot, shoot, shoot.

01:34:53.040 --> 01:34:55.060

Phil: And you'll know if someone's played it.

01:34:55.080 --> 01:34:57.100

Tom: You're immediately pressing buttons in your mind at that point.

01:34:58.020 --> 01:34:59.960

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:01.560

Tom: But the...

01:35:01.700 --> 01:35:02.000

Tom: gone.

01:35:02.300 --> 01:35:07.780

Phil: So this is not a redo of the original, or even the other games that came out on PlayStation 2.

01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:11.100

Tom: No, this is an all new experience made for VR.

01:35:11.900 --> 01:35:13.640

Phil: Is it by Mitsuguchi, who of course is...

01:35:13.720 --> 01:35:17.480

Tom: No, I do not think that he had any involvement in it, unfortunately.

01:35:17.500 --> 01:35:18.700

Tom: I don't think he even produced it.

01:35:19.480 --> 01:35:21.120

Tom: But I could be totally wrong there.

01:35:21.140 --> 01:35:21.700

Tom: Um...

01:35:23.080 --> 01:35:28.400

Tom: As I don't think it has a Wikipedia page, which is my source for all of my information.

01:35:30.420 --> 01:35:48.840

Phil: Um, yeah, that would be a shame if Mitz wasn't involved with it, because obviously he's gone on to do the amazing VR versions of Res and also Tetris Effect for the Sony PlayStation, which I assume is now on PC as a timed exclusive, so...

01:35:48.860 --> 01:35:50.520

Phil: Okay, so is it...

01:35:51.240 --> 01:35:56.800

Tom: and it is on Games Pass, but sadly the Games Pass version of Tetris Effect is non-VR.

01:35:57.860 --> 01:35:58.400

Phil: Okay.

01:35:59.080 --> 01:35:59.720

Phil: Okay, so...

01:36:00.120 --> 01:36:08.080

Tom: But Res and Tetris Effect in the VR form are both available on the Oculus Quest 2.

01:36:08.100 --> 01:36:08.220

Phil: Excellent.

01:36:08.560 --> 01:36:09.000

Phil: Excellent.

01:36:10.200 --> 01:36:11.320

Phil: Okay, so more about the game.

01:36:11.960 --> 01:36:22.140

Tom: Yep, so the one massive drawback to Space Channel 5 that I always had was the music was incredibly infectious and made you want to dance.

01:36:22.160 --> 01:36:27.100

Tom: The characters are dancing in the game, but all you're doing is pressing these fucking buttons.

01:36:28.080 --> 01:36:36.720

Tom: So as soon as the Wii appeared, the game I most wanted on the Wii was a Space Channel 5 for the Wii, and it never happened.

01:36:37.100 --> 01:36:41.900

Tom: Nor did a Kinect version of Space Channel 5 happen either.

01:36:42.900 --> 01:36:56.660

Tom: It has taken PlayStation VR, I'm pretty sure this was originally a PlayStation VR game, for us to finally get a Space Channel 5 game in which, rather than pressing up, down, left, right, etc.

01:36:56.760 --> 01:37:00.260

Tom: you were dancing up, down, left, right, etc.

01:37:00.460 --> 01:37:00.980

Tom: instead.

01:37:01.320 --> 01:37:05.060

Tom: And it works just as well as you would imagine it to.

01:37:06.560 --> 01:37:22.220

Tom: There are some occasions where the tracking, and it's absolutely the game's fault, not the controller's, the tracking is slightly awkward and does not accurately get what you were doing and thinks you've done the wrong move.

01:37:22.380 --> 01:37:30.960

Tom: For the most part, though, that is, and this is why I say it's the game's fault, it's saying you've done the move when you've actually fucked up.

01:37:32.100 --> 01:37:41.600

Tom: And you've started doing the wrong move and ended up sort of half doing the move to try and correct yourself, and it will accept that as being correct.

01:37:41.620 --> 01:37:55.780

Tom: So it is very forgiving to the point where it will take away some of the feeling of tactility from it, but that's a minor thing and doesn't really matter.

01:37:57.340 --> 01:38:18.920

Tom: Being able to dance in Space Channel 5, copying the characters' dancing and dancing with the allies is just a tremendously gratifying and satisfying experience that for me anyway has been waiting to be realized since I first played Space Channel 5.

01:38:20.300 --> 01:38:31.480

Tom: Compared to the original game, I would say the music is not quite on the same level, but it is very much on brand and tremendously enjoyable.

01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:48.200

Tom: The other minus point is it's about half the length of the original Space Channel 5, which was already an extremely short game, but for a rhythm game like this, I don't think the length really matters that much.

01:38:48.220 --> 01:38:54.260

Tom: I've played through the main campaign twice already and will be playing it more.

01:38:55.600 --> 01:39:10.300

Tom: And it has both the Japanese and English dub, which is a massive coup to have, because the singing is worth experiencing, both in Japanese and English, and both have a little bit of a different tone to them.

01:39:10.320 --> 01:39:28.380

Tom: And there's also a very, very long level that goes for like 15 minutes or something, so basically half the full campaign, which is really fun to play repeatedly and try and get a perfect score on.

01:39:29.820 --> 01:39:44.500

Tom: And it is, if you are a fan of Space Channel 5 and have always wanted to be an actual dancing game, which is to me totally logical, and a rhythm game, it is just an amazing realisation of that possibility.

01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:54.560

Tom: In spite of the minor issues like the forgivingness of your dance moves and incompetence and the shortness of the campaign.

01:39:54.940 --> 01:39:58.540

Phil: It's just as fun and funny as the original?

01:39:58.820 --> 01:40:01.420

Tom: It's significantly more fun than the original.

01:40:02.040 --> 01:40:02.820

Phil: Is Pudding in it?

01:40:03.660 --> 01:40:04.660

Tom: Is there Pudding in it?

01:40:04.680 --> 01:40:09.540

Phil: No, Pudding is the brunette from the game series.

01:40:09.860 --> 01:40:11.640

Phil: She was the competing reporter.

01:40:13.340 --> 01:40:15.020

Tom: In this one, I don't think she's in it.

01:40:15.040 --> 01:40:24.740

Tom: In this one, you are actually playing as one of two junior reporters who are understudies to You La La.

01:40:25.380 --> 01:40:26.320

Tom: This is a spoiler.

01:40:26.340 --> 01:40:32.600

Tom: In a very touching moment, she passes on the microphone to you.

01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:34.940

Phil: Is she wearing her usual orange dress?

01:40:35.160 --> 01:40:35.880

Tom: Yes, she is.

01:40:36.640 --> 01:40:43.080

Tom: And can I just add, I'm totally blameless in this, my sister insisted I do this.

01:40:43.240 --> 01:40:43.900

Tom: Upskirt?

01:40:44.240 --> 01:40:47.640

Tom: Yes, you can lie down on the ground and upskirt You La La.

01:40:48.200 --> 01:40:48.740

Phil: I knew it.

01:40:48.860 --> 01:40:50.440

Phil: I knew this is where that was going.

01:40:52.340 --> 01:40:55.240

Phil: I'm not going to ask any follow-up questions relating to that.

01:40:57.540 --> 01:40:59.600

Tom: Sadly, you cannot touch the characters.

01:40:59.620 --> 01:41:01.260

Tom: My sister was very disappointed in that.

01:41:02.420 --> 01:41:09.420

Tom: But in the end credits, another great moment, you get to high-five everyone with haptic feedback.

01:41:09.460 --> 01:41:12.540

Phil: Sweet.

01:41:12.880 --> 01:41:15.880

Phil: Has You La La aged 20 years?

01:41:16.380 --> 01:41:18.680

Phil: Is she now 50 something?

01:41:19.100 --> 01:41:19.440

Tom: No.

01:41:20.020 --> 01:41:23.540

Tom: Though she may be a very young-looking 50-year-old.

01:41:24.020 --> 01:41:27.980

Tom: It is of course a very cartoony graphic style, so it's hard to tell.

01:41:28.120 --> 01:41:31.760

Phil: Because newsreaders usually age out when they're 26.

01:41:33.360 --> 01:41:35.860

Tom: That's because they begin looking tremendously old.

01:41:36.600 --> 01:41:47.800

Tom: Because they're trying to look so young that the stress of it results in tremendous worry lines, and basically their entire nervous system is destroyed.

01:41:47.820 --> 01:41:51.400

Phil: I think the stress comes from reading the garbage I have to read.

01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:53.880

Phil: Gosh, I had one more question.

01:41:53.900 --> 01:41:58.000

Phil: No, I guess I'm going to have to just fold on that.

01:41:58.080 --> 01:42:01.400

Phil: So, okay, well, that sounds tremendously great.

01:42:02.740 --> 01:42:04.560

Phil: I really just want to get one of these things now.

01:42:04.760 --> 01:42:07.360

Phil: Are you going to really recommend that I get one without using one?

01:42:09.520 --> 01:42:16.920

Tom: Well, it depends because if you are willing, able to resell it, I would say yes.

01:42:16.940 --> 01:42:17.800

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:42:18.300 --> 01:42:18.940

Tom: Absolutely.

01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:19.620

Phil: That's a good idea.

01:42:20.140 --> 01:42:25.060

Tom: Just confirm that the resale prices are good on eBay.

01:42:25.860 --> 01:42:28.700

Tom: If there's anyone reselling them and I would say go for it.

01:42:28.900 --> 01:42:30.740

Phil: And would you think, well, they're not hard to get.

01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:32.440

Phil: I went to amazon.com.au.

01:42:32.460 --> 01:42:36.600

Phil: They said they had two new and one used available.

01:42:38.300 --> 01:42:47.040

Tom: They must have been restocking it because on Amazon for the smaller version, at least, when I purchased that was available.

01:42:47.220 --> 01:42:49.900

Tom: The only place in Australia was officially from Oculus.

01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:58.380

Tom: And if you do go the Oculus route, the postage from Ireland is surprisingly fast.

01:42:58.580 --> 01:42:59.100

Phil: What?

01:42:59.280 --> 01:43:00.400

Phil: They come from Ireland?

01:43:00.660 --> 01:43:03.620

Tom: It shipped directly from their tax haven to your door.

01:43:04.400 --> 01:43:06.920

Phil: How's that work in this COVID society where there's no planes?

01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:11.480

Tom: I don't know, but it got here within a few days from Ireland.

01:43:11.620 --> 01:43:12.840

Phil: Maybe they use Zucker Boots.

01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:24.440

Tom: And bear in mind, actually, Ireland has been one of the places that has been dealing with COVID competently, so that would probably help with the fast shipping.

01:43:26.800 --> 01:43:36.460

Phil: Just speaking about the early 2000s, I've got the latest issue of Retro Gamer in front of me, and I'm looking at the top five games for PlayStation 2, Xbox and GameCube.

01:43:37.500 --> 01:43:39.960

Phil: I'll just go through them, and you can just tell me if you remember them or not.

01:43:39.980 --> 01:43:49.980

Phil: But what's interesting about them is that there's only one game in common between the PlayStation 2 and the Xbox, and there's one game in common between the Xbox and the GameCube.

01:43:50.000 --> 01:43:56.400

Phil: But besides that, out of these 15 games, they're all completely unique games for the different platforms.

01:43:56.420 --> 01:44:01.260

Phil: And of course, if you look at game sales today, there's just basically Destiny, Fortnite.

01:44:01.320 --> 01:44:06.440

Phil: It's just these blanket games that are across every single category, and there's a few exclusives.

01:44:07.120 --> 01:44:20.200

Phil: And I do think that exclusives are good for the consumer, ultimately, because it forces developers to produce something that requires some thought for some reason.

01:44:20.240 --> 01:44:25.680

Phil: So, like PlayStation 2, the number one game we talked about last time was Itoy Play.

01:44:26.900 --> 01:44:29.180

Phil: The number two game was a game called The Great Escape.

01:44:30.600 --> 01:44:31.560

Phil: Have you ever played that?

01:44:32.540 --> 01:44:33.560

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:44:33.780 --> 01:44:35.400

Tom: It's not related to the film either.

01:44:35.420 --> 01:44:36.160

Phil: No, it's not.

01:44:36.180 --> 01:44:44.820

Phil: It's really somewhat, in terms of its appearance, crappy World War II game where you're a prisoner of war and you're trying to escape.

01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:47.840

Phil: It's actually a very good game.

01:44:47.860 --> 01:44:53.200

Tom: There's also The Great Escape and Infinity Runner as well.

01:44:53.220 --> 01:44:55.960

Phil: Yeah, this one's called The Great Escape from SCI.

01:44:56.060 --> 01:44:58.380

Phil: It was released in November of 2003.

01:45:00.120 --> 01:45:01.980

Phil: In any case, that's the number two game.

01:45:02.120 --> 01:45:04.260

Phil: Number three game I have never even heard about.

01:45:04.280 --> 01:45:07.120

Phil: Well, I'm pretty sure I have, but I've never played it.

01:45:07.160 --> 01:45:12.400

Phil: Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb for PlayStation 2 from LucasArts.

01:45:13.980 --> 01:45:15.060

Tom: I've not played that either.

01:45:15.080 --> 01:45:15.920

Phil: Yeah, me neither.

01:45:16.540 --> 01:45:18.820

Phil: Number four, Tomb Raider, Angel of Darkness.

01:45:18.860 --> 01:45:20.200

Tom: Did you say PS2?

01:45:20.200 --> 01:45:20.540

Phil: Yeah.

01:45:21.180 --> 01:45:29.720

Tom: Because there was also that PS3 Indiana Jones that was one of the most hyped games ever that fell off the face of the earth.

01:45:29.740 --> 01:45:31.380

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:45:31.620 --> 01:45:34.560

Phil: Yeah, so Tomb Raider, Angel of Darkness, I think that's one of the bad ones.

01:45:35.240 --> 01:45:38.720

Phil: And number five was Socom, US Navy Seals.

01:45:39.320 --> 01:45:45.680

Phil: So on Xbox, there was Star Wars Kotor, the original Knights of the Old Republic, which was an exclusive.

01:45:46.440 --> 01:45:49.980

Phil: Ghost Recon Island Thunder, which I don't remember.

01:45:50.900 --> 01:45:56.640

Phil: FIFA 2003, The Great Escape and Medal of Honor Frontline.

01:45:58.800 --> 01:45:59.860

Phil: All good memories there.

01:46:00.060 --> 01:46:02.920

Phil: And on the GameCube, number one was Star Wars Rogue Liga.

01:46:03.420 --> 01:46:04.680

Phil: Rogue League leader.

01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:09.320

Phil: Number two, Medal of Honor Frontline, that's the one it has in common.

01:46:09.780 --> 01:46:11.180

Phil: Number three, Wind Waker.

01:46:11.720 --> 01:46:14.820

Phil: Number four, Sonic Adventure DX, which is horrible.

01:46:15.420 --> 01:46:18.900

Phil: And number five, PNO3, starring Vanessa Schneider.

01:46:20.280 --> 01:46:24.480

Phil: So, yeah, I just was taken aback by the diversity of games there.

01:46:24.660 --> 01:46:27.040

Phil: So 17 years ago, hard to believe.

01:46:27.880 --> 01:46:30.080

Tom: And a lot of them weren't exclusives.

01:46:31.320 --> 01:46:33.000

Tom: I thought you said a lot were exclusives.

01:46:33.020 --> 01:46:33.660

Phil: Well, a lot.

01:46:33.720 --> 01:46:37.760

Phil: Wind Waker, Star Wars Rogue Leader, PNO3.

01:46:37.780 --> 01:46:38.560

Tom: PNO3.

01:46:38.580 --> 01:46:45.100

Tom: There are a lot of GameCube exclusives here, but once you go outside of Nintendo, there's far fewer.

01:46:45.120 --> 01:46:52.820

Phil: Yeah, like the Xbox certainly only had Kotor as an exclusive, and Itoy, I'm not sure how many of those.

01:46:52.840 --> 01:46:53.760

Tom: Well, that's an exclusive.

01:46:54.100 --> 01:46:57.480

Phil: Yeah, well, Itoy and Socom are definitely exclusives.

01:46:59.100 --> 01:47:00.520

Phil: So, but very diverse.

01:47:00.780 --> 01:47:03.040

Phil: Like, you know, I guess the people that were playing on a different...

01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:08.500

Phil: Back then, I mean, it really did reflect the different type of gamer on the different type of consoles.

01:47:10.160 --> 01:47:19.620

Phil: And of course, you still have that sort of separation with the PC switch, but you certainly, I don't think you have that separation anymore between the PlayStation and Microsoft cams.

01:47:20.800 --> 01:47:41.380

Tom: That reminds me, the one last thing I would add on VR is during my research, not unlike my experience in mobile gaming, it is very noticeable and weird the higher quantity of women involved in VR commentary and information.

01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:52.820

Tom: And I would suggest that the reason for that is the crossover with general tech interest.

01:47:54.380 --> 01:48:15.640

Tom: So for instance, in mobile phone stuff or even laptops and things like that, tech coverage, you would find a lot more women doing commentary than you do in pure gaming PC style hardware and obviously games console coverage.

01:48:17.520 --> 01:48:29.140

Phil: Okay, well speaking of a game that is available on pretty much everything, in one that both you and I picked up in Itch's Sale of the Century, is a game called One Night Stand.

01:48:29.160 --> 01:48:37.380

Phil: It's available on Windows, Mac, Linux, Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, which surprised me how ubiquitous it is.

01:48:37.400 --> 01:48:43.440

Phil: It's a game that came out originally for Windows in 2016.

01:48:44.380 --> 01:48:51.400

Phil: It's a visual novel, but made by a developer that I don't know that they've done much more, if anything, called Kinmoku.

01:48:52.180 --> 01:48:55.360

Phil: And I don't even know anything about them, where they're from.

01:48:56.620 --> 01:49:10.300

Phil: But basically, it's a very short visual novel with the point-and-click adventure motif, and it's made for multiple playthroughs.

01:49:12.240 --> 01:49:14.020

Phil: I guess I'll do the setup for it.

01:49:14.280 --> 01:49:22.400

Phil: You basically wake up after what appears to be a night of heavy drinking, and you don't know where you are.

01:49:22.460 --> 01:49:35.960

Phil: You look around, and there's a lady in the bed next to you, and you have to try and figure out who she is and how you got into that situation by looking at clues that are available to you in the room.

01:49:37.160 --> 01:49:57.080

Phil: She will leave every now and then, which lets you explore the room a little bit more, and then there's a different outcome depending on how you interact with her on the basis of what you've discovered and where you want to take the relationship or not want to take the relationship.

01:49:57.080 --> 01:49:58.420

Phil: Is that a pretty good setup?

01:49:58.680 --> 01:50:01.560

Tom: It is, and I will just interject with Wikipedia here.

01:50:02.260 --> 01:50:18.160

Tom: It was developed by specifically Lucy Blundell, and it was her first game, in fact, or rather an iteration on a game she made with a friend at a game jam.

01:50:18.320 --> 01:50:25.220

Tom: And she was inspired by a young man she saw in a disheveled state on public transport.

01:50:25.240 --> 01:50:30.680

Tom: And she imagined that he was in this state after a drunken one night stand.

01:50:32.540 --> 01:50:34.940

Phil: Imagination is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

01:50:35.000 --> 01:50:35.540

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:50:35.560 --> 01:50:39.660

Phil: And this game does lead you to think differently.

01:50:40.220 --> 01:51:01.260

Phil: Certainly if you take it on face value, the story is you went out, you left the drinking partner you were with, your mate, to go and spend time with this woman, and then you both ended up in bed together, and now you've woken up, and are going to have a brief interaction and go home.

01:51:01.280 --> 01:51:04.160

Phil: I mean, on the face of it, that's pretty much what's going to happen.

01:51:04.180 --> 01:51:15.420

Phil: But as you start to look at some of the clues, they indicate that perhaps that's not the straight story, which compels you to want to play through this thing multiple times.

01:51:15.440 --> 01:51:18.480

Phil: And you've certainly played it through more than I.

01:51:19.260 --> 01:51:23.380

Phil: I've really only played it through, like, one and a half times before I was interrupted.

01:51:24.940 --> 01:51:33.060

Phil: So you could probably give a fuller account as to the game play and also the different outcomes.

01:51:34.400 --> 01:51:43.880

Tom: I've unlocked about 50% of the outcomes, ranging from the amicable to the comically disastrous.

01:51:45.560 --> 01:51:53.040

Tom: And when you wake up, there's basically two objectives, both of which are optional.

01:51:53.820 --> 01:52:00.520

Tom: One is to get the hell out of there, and the other is to find out what's going on.

01:52:00.540 --> 01:52:11.800

Tom: So to achieve both, if you want to get out of there, you wake up naked, so you have to find your clothing or other clothing that will fit you in one of the comical moments of the game.

01:52:13.900 --> 01:52:39.440

Tom: And to find out what's going on, essentially you look around, there are things in the room that are highlighted that you can click on and look through for more information on the female protagonist, as it is her room, and that will help you in one, finding stuff out about her, and two, trying to work out what happened the previous night.

01:52:40.080 --> 01:52:56.380

Tom: And the most enjoyable part of the game to me was definitely looking around the room and inspecting all the items, rather than the figuring out part of it or trying to get a specific outcome.

01:52:57.000 --> 01:53:08.000

Tom: One of the most enjoyable parts of any adventure game is looking through everything that you find on a new screen and figuring out what's happening.

01:53:08.320 --> 01:53:25.380

Tom: And given the setting of this, it does have the feeling of intimacy, but also weirdness given the situation you're in of having no memory of how you ended up there, of being in another person's room or even another person's house in general.

01:53:25.920 --> 01:53:30.560

Tom: And the curiosity that that naturally engenders or at least does in me.

01:53:31.420 --> 01:53:34.320

Tom: So that part of the game is really enjoyable.

01:53:34.660 --> 01:53:39.800

Tom: And the characters, at least to begin with, are pretty amusing.

01:53:40.280 --> 01:53:44.780

Tom: And you have some control over how your character comes across.

01:53:45.900 --> 01:54:00.680

Tom: For instance, you can, when you're texting your friend about what happened, if you tell him that you've woken up in bed with a random woman who won't believe you because you are not apparently usually very good with the ladies.

01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:11.500

Tom: So you have the option of very creepily taking a photo of her and texting it to him, which results in some potentially interesting permutations if you do that.

01:54:12.880 --> 01:54:21.040

Tom: And looking through a room, you can find stuff like romance novels and things like that and talk to her about them.

01:54:21.560 --> 01:54:30.280

Tom: And you can also look at stuff that she wouldn't want you looking at and also ask her about them, leading to some comical conversations.

01:54:31.380 --> 01:54:34.520

Tom: So that part of the game is very enjoyable.

01:54:34.580 --> 01:54:39.840

Tom: And I played to unlocking about half the endings.

01:54:40.160 --> 01:54:57.900

Tom: But once I had ended up inspecting everything in the room and going through most of the dialogue options, I don't think the characters are really that interesting enough for me to continue playing to try and unlock the rest of the endings.

01:54:58.200 --> 01:55:14.240

Tom: And that's partly due to the good environmental storytelling because lots of the character stuff comes through from the room of the protagonist rather than the dialogue, which makes it all the more enjoyable.

01:55:14.460 --> 01:55:27.080

Tom: But it does then mean that it's less interesting trying to find different dialogue options to get different endings once you have found everything in the room itself.

01:55:27.140 --> 01:55:28.560

Tom: At least for me, that was the case.

01:55:29.380 --> 01:55:31.080

Phil: Is there a real ending?

01:55:31.120 --> 01:55:34.500

Phil: Or is there a good ending?

01:55:34.520 --> 01:55:36.380

Phil: I mean, you know what I'm saying?

01:55:36.400 --> 01:55:38.340

Phil: Or is it just...

01:55:38.360 --> 01:55:42.400

Phil: They're all equally good endings insofar as the developer is concerned.

01:55:42.420 --> 01:55:42.980

Tom: Well, I was...

01:55:43.360 --> 01:55:45.600

Tom: To me, they're all equally good endings.

01:55:45.620 --> 01:55:52.940

Tom: And given the creative inspiration for it, I think any ending would fit the theme of that.

01:55:53.320 --> 01:56:02.120

Tom: But I assume that the hardest ending to get anyway would be a romantic relationship beginning from this.

01:56:02.140 --> 01:56:09.680

Tom: And that that might be not necessarily the canon or proper ending, but the main ending that you're meant to try and figure out how to get.

01:56:10.140 --> 01:56:13.540

Tom: The closest to which I've got is friend-zoned.

01:56:15.040 --> 01:56:32.620

Phil: And now this is not a spoiler because this is speculation, but is there an ending in which she has drugged you and then interfered with your contraception so that towards the goal that she wanted a surrogate child but no relationship with the father?

01:56:33.780 --> 01:56:34.840

Tom: Well, I hope there is.

01:56:35.800 --> 01:56:36.480

Tom: But I don't know.

01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:41.220

Tom: And there are suspicious tablets on the bed stand.

01:56:41.580 --> 01:56:43.380

Phil: That's what led me to think this.

01:56:44.420 --> 01:56:50.160

Phil: And as the guy was walking away from my ending, he thought, oh, well, at least I use protection.

01:56:50.160 --> 01:56:52.380

Phil: And then I thought, dun, dun, dun.

01:56:53.060 --> 01:56:53.740

Tom: Or did I?

01:56:54.000 --> 01:56:54.880

Phil: Or did I?

01:56:54.900 --> 01:56:57.220

Phil: And this certainly...

01:56:57.460 --> 01:57:11.740

Tom: There is a condom wrapper on the ground, but they did not decide to go the graphic confirmation route of a used condom, which you could test, just to be sure.

01:57:13.020 --> 01:57:15.760

Phil: I looked up Lucy Blundell.

01:57:15.780 --> 01:57:16.940

Phil: She is still developing.

01:57:16.960 --> 01:57:19.440

Phil: She's currently working on a game for Memories.

01:57:19.780 --> 01:57:21.960

Phil: And yeah, she looks like the character.

01:57:22.440 --> 01:57:24.700

Phil: She roughly looks like the character in the game.

01:57:24.720 --> 01:57:29.960

Tom: Well, it is rotoscoped from her own performances.

01:57:30.080 --> 01:57:32.760

Phil: Yeah, so I did not know that it was from her own performances.

01:57:32.780 --> 01:57:39.880

Phil: So rotoscoping would be familiar to most people from that movie, music video from the 80s by A-Ha, Take On Me.

01:57:41.180 --> 01:57:43.540

Phil: That's pretty much what it looks like.

01:57:43.560 --> 01:57:46.160

Tom: So also Prince of Persia.

01:57:46.820 --> 01:57:50.040

Phil: Yeah, rotoscoping, yeah, from Prince of Persia in a different style.

01:57:50.060 --> 01:57:59.260

Phil: I mean, yeah, the art style is basically hand drawn, lead pencil style looking thing with maybe some light pastel work.

01:58:01.020 --> 01:58:03.580

Phil: But yeah, look, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

01:58:03.600 --> 01:58:04.300

Phil: I thought it was good.

01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:07.980

Phil: It was nominated for an IGF award, whatever that is.

01:58:08.000 --> 01:58:09.800

Phil: It has a 73 on Metacritic.

01:58:11.660 --> 01:58:12.780

Phil: Very, very short game.

01:58:13.220 --> 01:58:21.800

Phil: And well, it doesn't necessarily have to be, but I imagine if you went full hog and tried to get all the endings, it's probably more like a three or four hour experience.

01:58:22.680 --> 01:58:23.380

Tom: I'd say so.

01:58:23.400 --> 01:58:30.660

Tom: I've unlocked half the endings that I said, and I've played for about an hour or two.

01:58:31.280 --> 01:58:34.720

Phil: And once you've played through it once, you can fast forward through the dialogue.

01:58:35.380 --> 01:58:42.620

Tom: That's right, but that is something that I had one issue with, is that the fast forwarding is not nearly fast enough.

01:58:42.620 --> 01:59:00.040

Tom: It would be great if you could literally skip between dialogue threads, where you need to make a decision that might lead in a different direction in just a single click, rather than having to sit there and watching the dialogue scroll through at a fast pace.

01:59:00.160 --> 01:59:05.780

Phil: I'm not sure if you shared my experience, but one thing that was frustrating for me was that the mouse clicking was not...

01:59:06.280 --> 01:59:07.800

Phil: you didn't have to be precise with it.

01:59:08.120 --> 01:59:13.300

Phil: So sometimes I was clicking through the dialogue, and then it would automatically just...

01:59:13.500 --> 01:59:20.420

Phil: as soon as the dialogue ended, it puts up the dialogue, the choices of response, and it would just pick one of them for me.

01:59:22.020 --> 01:59:22.820

Phil: I don't know, because I was...

01:59:23.360 --> 01:59:26.080

Phil: because I wasn't trying to click anywhere near the dialogue choices.

01:59:26.100 --> 01:59:28.360

Phil: I was way up in the top corner of the screen sort of thing.

01:59:28.940 --> 01:59:30.560

Tom: I did not have that issue, I don't think.

01:59:30.580 --> 01:59:32.760

Phil: Yeah, it happened to me a couple of times, so...

01:59:33.680 --> 01:59:38.260

Phil: Okay, anything else you want to say about The Game before we close out the podcast?

01:59:39.820 --> 01:59:50.320

Tom: That's probably it, but I do hope that there is a potentially disturbing subplot available as one of the endings, but sadly, we're unlikely to find out.

01:59:51.720 --> 01:59:54.660

Tom: We should of course add that we got this, even though it is free.

01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:00.200

Tom: I'm personally more pleased to have you here today.

02:00:00.260 --> 02:00:03.660

Tom: We've got this in the sale of the century, Dan have played it for free.

02:00:04.060 --> 02:00:04.820

Phil: Yes, me too.

02:00:05.020 --> 02:00:09.540

Phil: I feel like I've given the developer, given back to the developer and the development community.

02:00:09.720 --> 02:00:14.500

Tom: And it is in fact $2.25 on Steam now, 50% off.

02:00:14.520 --> 02:00:16.640

Tom: So apparently it's not free anymore.

02:00:16.700 --> 02:00:22.800

Phil: Yeah, it's available on Switch very recently, and it's currently, according to a Twitter feed, 20% off.

02:00:23.240 --> 02:00:26.120

Phil: So now's a good time to try it, and it has my recommendation.

02:00:28.280 --> 02:00:31.200

Tom: Are we going to give it a score from the Dice of Destiny?

02:00:31.220 --> 02:00:34.260

Phil: Well, I haven't got my cat sound effects machine.

02:00:36.840 --> 02:00:39.460

Tom: Make some cat noises yourself.

02:00:39.600 --> 02:00:40.860

Phil: Okay, I can try that.

02:00:40.880 --> 02:00:43.060

Phil: Why don't you get the Dice of Destiny while I get the cat noises?

02:00:43.080 --> 02:00:44.380

Tom: My die is ready to go.

02:00:44.400 --> 02:00:46.000

Phil: Okay, so...

02:00:47.420 --> 02:00:48.520

Tom: Well, that's unfortunate.

02:00:49.160 --> 02:00:51.840

Tom: The Dice of Destiny has not been kind today.

02:00:52.420 --> 02:00:54.080

Tom: It gets a one out of ten.

02:00:55.020 --> 02:00:56.000

Phil: A one out of ten?

02:00:56.380 --> 02:00:57.260

Tom: One out of ten.

02:00:57.860 --> 02:01:00.260

Phil: Okay, let me get the cat thing here.

02:01:00.620 --> 02:01:07.480

Tom: So, it is officially better than the Oculus Quest 2, and it does not require a Facebook account for you to be able to play it.

02:01:07.960 --> 02:01:08.420

Phil: Okay.

02:01:09.860 --> 02:01:11.800

Phil: Let's see, I'm gonna roll my cat.

02:01:16.460 --> 02:01:17.000

Phil: Okay.

02:01:19.180 --> 02:01:19.660

Phil: So, that's...

02:01:21.160 --> 02:01:23.720

Phil: My cat gave it eight and a half meows out of ten.

02:01:24.740 --> 02:01:27.060

Tom: I think I heard about two and a half meows.

02:01:27.080 --> 02:01:31.320

Phil: Yeah, but you've got to expand a scale out into a ten-point scale.

02:01:31.340 --> 02:01:35.280

Tom: So, in cat years, you're saying the meows go by cat years.

02:01:35.480 --> 02:01:40.300

Phil: Look, I'd give this game a solid five out of ten on my own scale.

02:01:40.380 --> 02:01:40.880

Phil: How's that?

02:01:42.760 --> 02:01:50.080

Phil: It's well executed, it's a good idea, but there's not enough there to really sink your teeth into.

02:01:50.360 --> 02:01:58.720

Phil: It's a good fun development project, but I wouldn't call it a fleshed out game that I'd pay a whole bunch of money for.

02:01:59.120 --> 02:02:03.800

Tom: Yep, and it's not expensive, so it is certainly worth playing for a few dollars.

02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:05.420

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it's worth your time.

02:02:05.440 --> 02:02:08.640

Tom: For a few cents as it is valued in the sale of the century.

02:02:08.660 --> 02:02:09.540

Phil: Yes, yes.

02:02:09.780 --> 02:02:21.520

Tom: But I believe the final score for you then is either two and a half meows out of ten, or eight and a half meows out of ten in cat years, or five out of ten on the human scale.

02:02:21.540 --> 02:02:24.400

Phil: On the Phil Fogg scale, right.

02:02:24.420 --> 02:02:26.040

Phil: So anything else before we close out the show?

02:02:27.340 --> 02:02:30.020

Tom: Yes, I read We the Living.

02:02:30.760 --> 02:02:34.120

Tom: So I've now read every single Ayn Rand novel.

02:02:34.420 --> 02:02:35.620

Phil: Oh, okay, yeah.

02:02:36.580 --> 02:02:42.960

Tom: And like reading Jordan Peterson and Brandon B.

02:02:42.980 --> 02:02:59.420

Tom: McCartney's self-help books, I learned something from it that had been bothering and confusing me about this style of rugged individualism and might-make-right that is popular not just in Ayn Rand but all over the place.

02:02:59.560 --> 02:03:02.080

Tom: But reading We the Living, it finally clicked in my head.

02:03:02.360 --> 02:03:12.920

Tom: Because in these books, and it's not as bad in her later novels, though it is there in a slightly different way, the protagonists are usually total losers.

02:03:13.640 --> 02:03:15.320

Tom: Like they're crap at what they're doing.

02:03:16.180 --> 02:03:18.320

Tom: Again, this doesn't apply to Atlas Shrugged.

02:03:18.500 --> 02:03:24.020

Tom: They're crap at what they're doing, and they usually end up failing in the end in some way or other.

02:03:24.040 --> 02:03:42.460

Tom: And that does apply to the founded head of Atlas Shrugged, where all of those people, while they seemingly succeeded in their goals as individuals in the case of the conglomerate of individualists, they didn't succeed as individuals.

02:03:42.580 --> 02:03:44.280

Tom: They succeeded as a group of individuals.

02:03:44.920 --> 02:04:00.120

Tom: And in the case of the great architect, the visionary maverick artist, he was a total fucking failure because he required the outside validation of a court of law through a jury to be able to feel that he had succeeded.

02:04:00.140 --> 02:04:16.580

Tom: So again, as a moral tale in defense of individualism and pure belief in oneself and one's own strength to cope with the world and achieve things, they show that you can't do that.

02:04:17.020 --> 02:04:46.740

Tom: And in this book, which is set in a dystopic description of the Soviet Union, which specifically just after the revolution, so in the early 1900s, and can you believe that in the Soviet Union, things must have been so bad because the character, the protagonist, is a struggling university student dealing with things like unsupportive teachers.

02:04:48.020 --> 02:04:52.320

Tom: She's living in semi-poverty as a university student.

02:04:53.180 --> 02:04:54.360

Tom: Can you imagine?

02:04:55.580 --> 02:04:56.740

Tom: Can you imagine that?

02:04:56.840 --> 02:05:02.100

Tom: It's just horrifically disturbing that this could have occurred in the Soviet Union.

02:05:03.380 --> 02:05:07.860

Tom: And it ends with her, spoiler alert, failing to escape.

02:05:08.980 --> 02:05:10.140

Tom: Failing to escape.

02:05:10.420 --> 02:05:13.240

Tom: So as an individual, she fucking fails.

02:05:13.640 --> 02:05:29.600

Tom: But I realize that in these books, which are all ultimately about self-pitying and whining and begging someone else to tell you that you have value, and I believe, I'm happy to tell Ayn Rand that she has value.

02:05:30.180 --> 02:05:38.400

Tom: She's a really honest artist, and she is, read her short books, because you don't need to read the long ones, but they are interesting.

02:05:38.740 --> 02:05:43.280

Tom: We The Living is shorter, short enough to read, and Anthem is really short.

02:05:43.300 --> 02:05:43.980

Tom: Just read that.

02:05:44.280 --> 02:05:46.200

Tom: It contains everything and all the other writing.

02:05:46.800 --> 02:05:58.460

Tom: But so the protagonists are losers, and they're begging for outside validation, but they're not getting it because everyone thinks they're crap, because they are crap, right?

02:05:59.540 --> 02:06:03.420

Tom: And they fail in the end and do not get rewarded because they fail.

02:06:03.740 --> 02:06:07.140

Tom: And that's the vision that Ayn Rand has of the world.

02:06:07.500 --> 02:06:09.160

Tom: So how can you solve this?

02:06:09.600 --> 02:06:22.900

Tom: Well, the obvious solution to this is to reject that you need outside validation and that other people's standards should dictate what you define as success.

02:06:23.200 --> 02:06:40.280

Tom: But Ayn Rand and other individuals like this do not have either the moral fortitude or the personal strength to actually do this because obviously validation is rewarding and a very human thing and something that most people require to various degrees.

02:06:40.520 --> 02:07:24.600

Tom: So their solution rather than that is essentially to have a character that losers can relate to and set them in a world where they don't get the praise and validation from other people that they deserve, but say rather than it's because you obviously are a failure, which you have to be a failure so that failures can relate to you and become invested in the story, it's because it's in a collectivist society, the Soviet Union, so somehow their validation doesn't matter because you're an individual and your failure doesn't matter because, well, that's never explained.

02:07:24.720 --> 02:07:38.200

Tom: But the basic point is, I finally now understand why in all her books the protagonists are losers and total failures in the end according to their own personal standards.

02:07:38.220 --> 02:07:58.160

Tom: And it is because they have to be relatable, one, to herself and her own personal character, and two, to the audience of the books that are going to be into this, which explains why, supposedly anyway, teenagers are one of her main audiences.

02:07:58.420 --> 02:08:07.460

Tom: Because if there's any period in most people's lives that people require a huge amount of validation, it is certainly when they are teenagers.

02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:18.080

Tom: But simultaneously, teenagers, with all the shit they're dealing with, are total fucking idiots a lot of the time and complete and utter losers.

02:08:18.760 --> 02:08:21.820

Tom: So, unlikely to be receiving validation from anyone.

02:08:23.420 --> 02:08:25.100

Phil: That's actually a very good insight.

02:08:25.740 --> 02:08:30.300

Phil: Not just about teenagers, but I mean about her audience in herself.

02:08:31.540 --> 02:08:34.180

Phil: Okay, so here I thought you were going to be nice to old Anne.

02:08:35.460 --> 02:08:38.420

Tom: Well, that book I would recommend to people.

02:08:39.120 --> 02:08:40.040

Tom: What's it called again?

02:08:40.060 --> 02:08:44.360

Tom: Again, it's only like 300 pages, as opposed to 3,000.

02:08:45.220 --> 02:08:49.740

Tom: So it won't waste weeks of your life.

02:08:51.220 --> 02:08:57.020

Tom: And the writing in it is actually, I think, other than Anthem, her best writing.

02:08:57.080 --> 02:09:00.860

Tom: It's before she goes pure pulp.

02:09:00.880 --> 02:09:05.820

Tom: The characters in this are somewhat interesting and their interactions are somewhat believable.

02:09:06.220 --> 02:09:13.240

Tom: And the depiction of the Soviet Union, I think is actually, it's written in a naturalistic realist style.

02:09:13.260 --> 02:09:14.600

Tom: It's really atmospheric.

02:09:14.860 --> 02:09:16.580

Tom: It has a proper sense of place to it.

02:09:16.600 --> 02:09:19.380

Tom: That aspect of the book is really enjoyable.

02:09:20.240 --> 02:09:29.680

Tom: The weird sadomasochistic romance in it like she has in all her books, it's less erotic and pornographic than it is in her later works.

02:09:30.000 --> 02:09:41.240

Tom: But it is, other than with the chick in the architect book, it is a much more interesting exploration of a relationship like that.

02:09:41.260 --> 02:09:48.360

Tom: The woman in the architect book, though, is such a batshit crazy character that in terms of the romance, that is so good.

02:09:48.540 --> 02:09:51.860

Tom: But this book is worth reading for its literary quality.

02:09:52.220 --> 02:10:11.000

Tom: And as a pro-Soviet propaganda book, it is also really effective because its depiction of the Soviet Union as being as much a shithole but no more of a shithole than 1920s England or America is really effective, where you've got a...

02:10:11.900 --> 02:10:14.080

Tom: It's like reading of human bondage.

02:10:14.300 --> 02:10:30.780

Tom: It's absolutely like that sort of depiction of university life or the For Love Alone by Christine Stead, set in Australia in the same era, and London depicting university life.

02:10:30.800 --> 02:10:34.300

Tom: And one can't really tell the difference, honestly.

02:10:36.000 --> 02:10:42.560

Tom: So as a pro-Soviet propaganda book in the socialist realist style, it is absolutely worth reading as well.

02:10:42.880 --> 02:10:48.860

Tom: And I also think, again, I actually like Aang Rand as an example of that.

02:10:49.340 --> 02:10:52.640

Tom: She has the rare quality of honesty as an artist.

02:10:53.020 --> 02:11:05.720

Tom: And to me, her life is something of a tragedy, because when she was writing The Fountainhead or whichever the architect book was, she took a lot of anthetamines and became addicted to them.

02:11:06.120 --> 02:11:17.700

Tom: And in that book and from that book onwards, there is a notable decline both in her ability to write, particularly in characterisation, but also in just the basic prose.

02:11:18.340 --> 02:11:26.520

Tom: And also in her non-fiction, her logic and ability to be logically consistent massively drops off as well.

02:11:26.720 --> 02:11:42.620

Tom: Before that, to me, she is a really entertaining, provocative, not in the sense that she is coming up with provocative ideas, but as someone just being deliberately provocative and being edgy is what I mean.

02:11:43.620 --> 02:11:57.680

Tom: She is an amusingly edgy thinker, and she is irreverent and totally earnest and sincere, which is really rare for at least intellectuals with those kinds of ideas.

02:11:57.700 --> 02:12:03.020

Tom: It's certainly not rare for random people with those ideas, but it is rare for intellectuals with those ideas.

02:12:03.040 --> 02:12:04.560

Phil: And the name of the book again?

02:12:05.180 --> 02:12:06.900

Tom: The name of the book is We The Living.

02:12:07.020 --> 02:12:07.760

Phil: We The Living.

02:12:08.360 --> 02:12:08.800

Phil: Okay.

02:12:09.460 --> 02:12:14.580

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think we'll close out episode 132 of The Game Under Podcast.

02:12:15.100 --> 02:12:22.120

Phil: Please do go and check part 3 of Tom's writing on Jordan Peterson, Peterson at gameunder.net.

02:12:22.700 --> 02:12:25.640

Phil: And thanks for joining me this day, Tom.

02:12:26.920 --> 02:12:32.100

Tom: Thanks for having me, Phil, although I am the host and you the co-host, so technically you join me.

Game Under Podcast 131

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Intro
0:00:13 Council Wars
0:04:13 Cat's Meow

Final Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:05:49 Deadly Premonition 2 on Switch

First Impressions - Tom Towers
0:10:23 Journey to a Savage Planet for all major platforms, reviewed on PC

Trademark Banter
0:25:27 Doom Eternal-ly Updating

First Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:30:22 Project Warlord - Most platforms, reviewed on Switch

Tom Towers Reacts to the News
0:40:21 Console releases for Xbox X and Playstation 5

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:49:10 Halo 3
0:57:06 Halo 3: ODST
1:01:45 Tom and Phil Re-enact ODST dialog

Trademark Banter
1:06:38 Kind Words: Lo Fi Chill Beats to Write To
1:07:20 Vampyr at gameunder.net
1:09:30 Christian Prophet
1:13:15 Art of Rally Review
1:23:30 Teardown

Final Impressions - Towers and Fogg
1:25:00 Perfect Vermin for PC

Off Topic Closer
1:36:38 Pinker

Transcript

Tom: Hello and welcome to a special episode of the Game Under Podcast in these unprecedented times that get, keep getting progressively more and more unprecedented.

00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:32.640

Tom: Now, far be it from us to bring politics into gaming, but I think there has recently been one of the world's most important elections.

00:00:32.660 --> 00:00:43.820

Tom: And even here in Australia, we've been inundated with political propaganda, vote getting and all sorts of political advertising.

00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:52.180

Tom: The letterbox here has been filled to the brim of brochures and political ads.

00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.900

Tom: I don't know how has it been in Queensland recently?

00:00:55.620 --> 00:00:57.160

Phil: Well, we had our election up here.

00:00:57.180 --> 00:00:58.280

Phil: Is that what you're talking about?

00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:07.840

Tom: Well, I'm talking about the political event of the past four years of world renown.

00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:15.260

Tom: And the results, it took a long time for them to be tabulated, but they have finally been finished.

00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:23.380

Tom: The last update was in fact on the 6th of November, 2020 at 2:14 PM.

00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:27.180

Tom: So only two days ago, this is basically breaking news.

00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:35.960

Tom: And I would just like to congratulate the first three candidates in Language Ward.

00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:38.380

Tom: Number one, Stephen Jolly.

00:01:38.720 --> 00:01:41.240

Tom: Number two, Anab Mohammed.

00:01:41.780 --> 00:01:44.740

Tom: Number three, Gabrielle Devietri.

00:01:45.440 --> 00:01:50.380

Tom: And for Melbourne Ward, number one, Edward Crossland.

00:01:51.060 --> 00:01:53.100

Tom: Number two, Claudine Neung.

00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:55.900

Tom: Number three, Herschel Landez.

00:01:56.340 --> 00:02:04.320

Tom: And for the last ward in the Yarra City Council, number one, Nicholls Ward rather.

00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:06.820

Tom: Number one, Bridgette O'Brien.

00:02:07.100 --> 00:02:09.200

Tom: Number two, Sophie Wade.

00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:11.680

Tom: Number three, Amanda Stone.

00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:20.120

Tom: And with those results, I believe that finally the world can rest a little easier tonight.

00:02:20.980 --> 00:02:24.320

Phil: I thought you were reading out horse names from the Melbourne Cup last week.

00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:28.180

Phil: So you had City Council elections in Melbourne?

00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:28.920

Tom: Yes.

00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:29.800

Phil: Okay.

00:02:30.220 --> 00:02:31.360

Phil: And what happened?

00:02:31.380 --> 00:02:33.920

Phil: Did they get rid of a bunch of people because of COVID or?

00:02:34.880 --> 00:02:42.960

Tom: I think I would not know, but I believe generally speaking, people who previously had seats re-won their seats.

00:02:44.640 --> 00:02:55.160

Tom: So a bunch of, in this case, actual socialists, in this case, Stephen Jolly, who is of the Socialist Party in Victoria.

00:02:55.760 --> 00:03:02.700

Tom: I think in Melbourne Ward, the Greens and Nicholls Ward, I have no idea who any of those people are.

00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:05.000

Phil: Okay.

00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:07.040

Phil: Well, are you happy with the outcome?

00:03:08.920 --> 00:03:12.540

Tom: I did not vote and I am ambivalent.

00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.400

Tom: I am ambivalent in regards to the outcome.

00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:15.800

Phil: I thought you had to vote.

00:03:15.920 --> 00:03:17.000

Phil: I thought it was mandatory.

00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:25.260

Tom: It is in theory mandatory, but there are ways out of voting, both popular ones and lesser known ones as well.

00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:42.500

Tom: But given that the voter turnout was apparently about 69% of the enrollment, it's either not enforced at this level or the councils make a reasonable amount of money on fines.

00:03:44.780 --> 00:03:46.840

Phil: Well, congratulations, I guess.

00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:47.460

Phil: It's good to have...

00:03:47.740 --> 00:03:51.340

Tom: I thought the world was waiting for this to happen.

00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:52.700

Phil: Yeah, I'm sure they were.

00:03:52.720 --> 00:04:00.480

Phil: I thought you were gonna say that you were about to announce our 2016 Game of the Year after that long deliberation.

00:04:01.660 --> 00:04:05.660

Phil: I am Phil Fogg, by the way, and Tom, it's Tom Towers.

00:04:05.880 --> 00:04:08.700

Phil: Thanks for coming on and hosting the show.

00:04:08.720 --> 00:04:10.560

Tom: I'm Tom Towers of Melba Ward.

00:04:10.980 --> 00:04:11.740

Phil: Melba Ward.

00:04:13.420 --> 00:04:16.220

Phil: In these unprecedented times, it has been difficult.

00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:28.720

Phil: I know that since we've been recording from home, one of the listeners or two of the listeners have pointed out that they can hear a cat in the background, and I've never actually introduced the cat to the people.

00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:31.620

Phil: I don't know if you've heard the cat in the background.

00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:37.300

Phil: In fact, I know you did because the last time we had to stop the show and I escorted the cat out of the studio.

00:04:37.320 --> 00:04:40.620

Tom: I heard the cracking of a whip, I believe.

00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:45.400

Phil: Well, the cat has passed, so there is no more cat.

00:04:46.700 --> 00:04:49.720

Tom: The whip cracked a little too hard at that time.

00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:59.680

Phil: Well, she was 18, so it was certainly time, but just for the listeners out there that like to listen to the cat, I still haven't bought a soundboard.

00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:08.420

Phil: You know how much I desperately want a soundboard, and I know that you and the listeners will both cringe when that actually does happen.

00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:10.000

Phil: But I do have this...

00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:20.440

Phil: I have this children's book that you push a button and that sound comes out.

00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.320

Phil: I don't know, we might use that to...

00:05:22.580 --> 00:05:33.160

Phil: Maybe we can use that to score games, like 3 meows out of 6, but it is as annoying as the real cat was, I can assure you.

00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:35.580

Tom: That can be your scoring system.

00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:37.100

Phil: Okay, alright.

00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:47.600

Phil: Well, with that, before we get into Journey to the Savage Planet, did you want to hear my final impressions of Deadly Premonition?

00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:49.520

Tom: Obviously.

00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:58.360

Phil: Deadly Premonition 2, this is of course the Switch exclusive from SWERY, and it was both the prequel and sequel to Deadly Premonition.

00:05:59.900 --> 00:06:10.340

Phil: Look, I think if you really want to know all my full thoughts on that game, go back, and I think it was episode 129, or possibly 130 where I spoke about it at length.

00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:21.620

Phil: I think that it ultimately was an experience that I had to have had, and I think that anyone who finished the original Deadly Premonition should have.

00:06:22.580 --> 00:06:30.040

Phil: But certainly, it's not a game I would recommend in its whole by the time I was finished with it.

00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:35.060

Phil: It really is for enthusiasts of the original material.

00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:51.380

Phil: And the reason being is where the game fell short was in its production values and just some of the things that they had to do to extend the length of the game that ultimately let the game down.

00:06:53.160 --> 00:07:06.140

Phil: I found the story and the character work to be worth it, but again, and I would recommend it to you because I know you enjoyed the original, but for everyone else, I'd say it's certainly not something that is worth your time, unfortunately.

00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:11.680

Tom: That's disappointing, but also probably not surprising.

00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:13.700

Phil: No, not surprising.

00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:17.460

Phil: I mean, the original game was done on the cheap, but back then games were...

00:07:18.400 --> 00:07:22.040

Phil: it was easier to make a fuller game on the cheap, I think.

00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:31.780

Phil: Maybe not, though, when I look at some other indie games, but at least the way that Swery makes games, he really does deserve a proper budget, I feel.

00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:41.140

Tom: You think perhaps another issue was that it was made for the Switch, than for more powerful hardware?

00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:44.280

Phil: Well, I think ultimately it will come out on PC.

00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:48.040

Phil: I mean, it must, just for economic purposes.

00:07:49.020 --> 00:08:23.140

Phil: You know, there's no reason why you couldn't release it on PC or on the other consoles, except for the fact that it might get more ridicule, because, you know, on the Switch, because everyone knows that it's a less powerful system, I think that the people that, you know, the fans of the Switch, myself included, are more accepting of lower quality standards in terms of, you know, technical, whereas that may not be tolerated on a PlayStation 5 or an Xbox.

00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:38.140

Phil: I think it would find acceptance in the PC world because people who play PC games are used to, you know, some clunkiness and, you know, from indie games and things like that, even from AAA games, really.

00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.900

Phil: So, no, I don't think it had much to do with the Switch.

00:08:42.920 --> 00:08:51.380

Phil: I think it had more to do with a lack of production time in terms of, you know, saying, look, this idea really isn't working.

00:08:51.400 --> 00:08:52.720

Phil: It needs to be cut from the game.

00:08:53.300 --> 00:08:57.380

Phil: And then them going, well, if we cut that from the game, then the game's going to be like an hour shorter.

00:08:57.780 --> 00:08:59.520

Phil: And it's already a pretty short game.

00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:07.500

Phil: So, yeah, I think it's design issues more than being constrained by the system on which it was released.

00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:20.960

Tom: And it seems like design issues such as inflating the length and perhaps making the area bigger than it needed to be also could well have contributed to a lot of the technical issues as well.

00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:23.520

Phil: Yes, yeah, yeah.

00:09:24.580 --> 00:09:26.280

Phil: So, yeah, so sad.

00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:34.060

Phil: But like I said, if you're a fan of the original, the story work and the acting and everything else is worth coming back for.

00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.720

Phil: But I don't think it augurs well for a third release, but who knows?

00:09:39.740 --> 00:09:45.140

Phil: I mean, maybe another seven years from now, there'll be interest in a sequel.

00:09:46.060 --> 00:09:49.080

Phil: I think it would make a good Netflix show, honestly.

00:09:51.400 --> 00:09:54.740

Phil: Yeah, a live action show.

00:09:55.280 --> 00:10:13.640

Phil: I think that would probably be its most successful way for another game to come out, would be something else like a comic or a Netflix series or something like that to push it forward, to get more people exposed to the world of Deadly Premonition.

00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:20.440

Tom: I think it definitely has the quality behind it to be translatable into another medium.

00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:22.340

Phil: Yep, yep, I agree.

00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:26.080

Phil: But we may as well get into the games.

00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:27.300

Phil: We've got a lot to talk about.

00:10:27.700 --> 00:10:33.480

Phil: And the one I'm most interested to hear about from you is Journey to a Savage Planet.

00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:38.460

Phil: This is a game that came out this year, published by 505 Games.

00:10:38.800 --> 00:10:41.720

Phil: I don't know too much about the developer Typhoon Studios.

00:10:41.740 --> 00:10:42.700

Phil: Do you know much about them?

00:10:43.560 --> 00:10:49.860

Tom: Well, they've apparently been bought by a large developer, possibly EA.

00:10:49.880 --> 00:10:50.740

Tom: I'll just look that up.

00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:54.840

Tom: But apparently the founder of the company is an Australian.

00:10:55.520 --> 00:10:55.980

Phil: Okay.

00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:58.960

Phil: Yeah, the studio, they're owned by Google.

00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:00.100

Tom: There you go.

00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.000

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:05.260

Tom: They were not owned by Google, I believe, at the beginning of development though.

00:11:06.160 --> 00:11:12.900

Phil: And this is an Unreal Engine game available for all the major platforms, Windows through Switch.

00:11:12.900 --> 00:11:13.240

Phil: So...

00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:23.340

Tom: I believe, however, that on PC it might be an Epic exclusive because it does not appear to be on Steam at the moment.

00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:24.240

Phil: Okay.

00:11:25.060 --> 00:11:26.160

Phil: And it's a...

00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.840

Phil: All I know about it is it's a first-person adventure game.

00:11:29.380 --> 00:11:33.460

Phil: Like, I guess, I imagine like No Man's Sky.

00:11:33.880 --> 00:11:34.240

Phil: Is that...?

00:11:34.680 --> 00:11:45.200

Tom: Well, the thing that people compare it to, which Travo and Phantom Leo on the VG Press, both compared it to Metroid Prime.

00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:46.680

Phil: Oh, wow.

00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:48.860

Tom: Which is what intrigued me.

00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:57.160

Tom: And there are certainly some similarities with Metroid Prime, but I would have to very much diverge from that analysis.

00:11:57.980 --> 00:12:20.920

Tom: So the surface-level things that are like Metroid Prime is scanning, which doesn't really play much of a role in the gameplay in the same way that it does in Metroid Prime, where it's used more complexly in puzzles and discovering important information and things like that, and building up the backstory.

00:12:20.940 --> 00:12:44.460

Tom: Here, the story is much more comical, and simple isn't the right word, because Metroid Prime has a very simple story, but it is comical and over-the-top, so the scanning results are usually non-sequitur jokes and the things like that, and they are indeed amusing, but it is not used in terms of gameplay in the same way that it is in Metroid Prime.

00:12:44.960 --> 00:13:24.520

Tom: Structurally, in theory, it is like Metroid Prime, where you have to collect upgrades to be able to get further in the areas you're exploring, but it's quite a small environment, so you don't really end up running into things that you get stuck at and come back to a lot later that are at least involved in the main story, except towards the end of the game, maybe in the second to third, so it's a much more faster-paced experience in terms of the exploration.

00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.800

Tom: On top of that, the unlocks aren't really things you discover.

00:13:28.820 --> 00:13:54.820

Tom: It's essentially a sort of crafting thing where you collect various material from enemies you kill, and when you get enough of those, you can 3D print various items you need to get to areas you couldn't get before, such as a grapple hook and double jump and things like that.

00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:15.000

Tom: So there are surface similarities to Metroid Prime, but structurally it is much more in the vein of something like Jak and Daxter, where you're in a sort of semi-open platforming world that you explore and you're collecting things.

00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:32.060

Phil: I'm looking at the video, and it looks like a blend of No Man's Sky, Metroid Prime and Spore, but talking about that collecting element, does it have a Pokemon type, monster collecting type aspect to it as well?

00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.300

Phil: Because that's also kind of what it's looking like.

00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:39.620

Tom: Yep, I think the enemies are actually in your journal listed as trading cards.

00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:47.620

Phil: So like a, you know, in fine, in typical RPGs, you've got bestiaries or bestiaries, however you pronounce it.

00:14:48.680 --> 00:14:51.260

Phil: But that's kind of, you know, and that's fun.

00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:54.860

Phil: It's fun to like collect them and go back and look through them.

00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:59.060

Phil: But you can, can you battle with them with those cards?

00:14:59.060 --> 00:14:59.700

Phil: Is it like a...

00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:01.200

Tom: No, I don't think you can.

00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:04.260

Tom: It's just basically a bestiary in card form.

00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:05.300

Phil: Yep, yep.

00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:10.140

Phil: And the very, very bright visuals as well comes through here.

00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:32.520

Tom: And the other, the other thing related to the crafting system, which is a little bit awkward and goes against the otherwise very free-flowing pace of the game, to be able to craft, to print better and better items, you need to get to certain explorer ranks.

00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:49.140

Tom: And to do this, you need to conduct scientific experiments, such as you have to capture several enemies with the binding goo item and then shoot them all together as an example.

00:15:50.820 --> 00:16:34.840

Tom: And while these things are a slightly interesting wrinkle on the gameplay, where for the most part it's all about the exploring of the combat elements, except when you're up against a few tougher enemies, which I'll get into in a moment, they're basically just there to look cute, make endearing noises and die in humorous manners to drop the currency for your crafting the combat, other than when you're against the armoured enemies that have weak points and a couple of attack chains that you have to dodge are there essentially just to give you the items you need to craft.

00:16:35.300 --> 00:17:12.920

Tom: So that just kind of bogs you down and slows you down when you want to go and continue exploring and find extra items, because the one area where you do have that feeling of Metroid Prime where it's satisfying and interesting to be collecting, sorry, to be unlocking more things, to find more things, it's not so much to do with the main story and exploration, but with collecting all the health upgrades and alien logs which is backstory and things like that.

00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.600

Tom: So you'll be constantly coming across areas that you can't get to.

00:17:17.060 --> 00:17:26.140

Tom: They won't really be related to the story, but they will have an interesting reward that will make you stronger or add to the backstory and that sort of thing.

00:17:28.780 --> 00:17:39.080

Phil: I'm really, really wanting you to get to the end of this review because so far you've made it sound very compelling and I noticed it on Amazon.

00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:45.360

Phil: It's available for 28 bucks for Xbox One and 52 bucks for the Switch.

00:17:46.180 --> 00:18:03.260

Phil: I prefer to buy everything for the Switch these days, mostly because they don't generally have a lot of updates, online updates, and also just because I love the flexibility of being able to play something mobile if I need to.

00:18:03.620 --> 00:18:13.180

Phil: But I'm not going to get too far ahead here, but I will ask how far are you along in the game and you are playing this on PC, I presume?

00:18:13.580 --> 00:18:14.120

Tom: Correct.

00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:22.380

Tom: I am playing it on the Epic Games Store version of the game and I believe I am right at the end.

00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:25.620

Phil: And how long has it taken you to get through it?

00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:30.840

Tom: Probably about seven or eight hours.

00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:42.580

Tom: And the, I think, total number, the percentage I have, I think, is around 70 or 60 percent as far as collecting things are concerned.

00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:49.020

Tom: So if you were to collect everything, it would probably be about 10 or 12 hours.

00:18:49.020 --> 00:18:57.000

Tom: And I do intend to continue to collect things for a little bit of time.

00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:17.820

Tom: And so if you are going into this Expecting Metroid Prime, although Travo and Phantom Leo clearly were, and this didn't apply, I think it is a little bit disappointing because it's really not Metroid Prime at all, other than taking a few of the gameplay mechanics from Metroid Prime.

00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:24.080

Tom: Structurally, it isn't really that at all, nor is it Metroid Prime in the moment-to-moment gameplay.

00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:36.320

Tom: It's really much more of a classic collection style platformer in a really lush and also quite amusing environment you get to explore.

00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:39.280

Tom: As that, it works really well.

00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:47.000

Tom: As a Metroid Prime clone or a Metroidvania, whatever you want to call it, it's not so good.

00:19:47.340 --> 00:19:52.500

Tom: But the platforming, and it is in first person, it's pretty forgiving.

00:19:53.180 --> 00:20:07.960

Tom: As soon as you get the double jump, when you fall, as long as you jump just before you land, you can survive very tall falls, which is good for exploring in areas where it doesn't seem like the game means for you to explore early on.

00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:16.180

Tom: And it's also forgiving so that some of the awkwardness of first person platforming isn't an issue.

00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:28.820

Tom: The basic jumping mechanics also are very floaty, but that works in first person platforming in a way that it doesn't in third person platforming.

00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:36.940

Tom: And there's also a nice sense of inertia when you're doing running jumps and things like that.

00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:45.980

Tom: And the framing of the game is very funny as well and surprisingly cute.

00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:55.860

Tom: It actually reminds me a lot of Pikmin, the presentation where basically all the enemies are extraordinarily cute.

00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:00.520

Tom: And at first you don't really want to kill them as a result of that.

00:21:02.100 --> 00:21:16.200

Tom: And the basic premise of the game is you are an explorer working for some suspicious corporation in a very poorly designed exploration program.

00:21:17.080 --> 00:21:28.380

Tom: And on your ship you have a bunch of televisions which play pretty amusing parodies of ads of various styles.

00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:41.460

Tom: And you also have regular communications with the CEO of the company, who is played very well and adds greatly to the atmosphere.

00:21:41.540 --> 00:21:54.960

Tom: And most of the dialogue in the game is from your AI, I think, companion, who has a lot of sardonic commentary on your exploration as you are playing.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:03.880

Phil: The humor of it, just based on the videos I've seen and the promotion of, is it Grub or Glob?

00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:06.060

Tom: Grub, I think it is.

00:22:06.080 --> 00:22:11.960

Phil: Grub reminded me of one of your favorite series, and that's Oddworld.

00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:13.640

Tom: Yes, definitely.

00:22:13.660 --> 00:22:24.280

Tom: I don't think it is as deep as the humor in Oddworld, or as thematically interesting as Oddworld, but it is definitely the same style of humor.

00:22:25.580 --> 00:22:26.320

Phil: So that's great.

00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:29.040

Phil: I mean, I've added it to my cart.

00:22:29.060 --> 00:22:39.300

Phil: I'm going to pay the 52 bucks to get it on Switch as opposed to the 30 bucks on Xbox One, because the Xbox One is coming from America, and who knows, and who cares, right?

00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:42.940

Phil: But at 52 bucks on a Switch, that's kind of like a budget title.

00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:46.460

Phil: So that's an easy pick up.

00:22:47.120 --> 00:22:50.680

Tom: Just bear in mind at $50 that it is indeed very short.

00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:52.520

Phil: Yeah, but you know, that's...

00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:54.480

Tom: Quality over quantity.

00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.340

Phil: Yeah, that means it will take me two months to play it, you know?

00:22:57.880 --> 00:22:58.200

Tom: Yep.

00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:01.120

Phil: At the current rate that I'm completing games.

00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:04.340

Phil: So that sounds like a perfect length to me.

00:23:04.360 --> 00:23:06.760

Phil: And this one flew completely under my radar.

00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:10.700

Phil: I didn't quite like the artwork of the...

00:23:11.580 --> 00:23:13.520

Phil: Like, I don't like the big googly eye.

00:23:13.620 --> 00:23:15.680

Phil: They kind of look a little too rare for me.

00:23:17.320 --> 00:23:18.400

Phil: Bendo, kuzuri style.

00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:28.440

Tom: Looking at screenshots, I thought the entire thing was hideously ugly, but when you're playing it and you get into the sense of humour, it ends up working quite well.

00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:31.780

Phil: Yeah, and that grob stuff, is it grob?

00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.040

Tom: I believe it is grob.

00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:34.660

Phil: Grob?

00:23:35.020 --> 00:23:36.840

Phil: It's like this purple goo stuff.

00:23:36.860 --> 00:23:41.340

Phil: That's the stuff that you're using to laser print or 3D print things, is that right?

00:23:41.780 --> 00:23:46.680

Tom: No, you use that as a trap to lure enemies together.

00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:49.880

Phil: Do you have much more to say on that?

00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.940

Phil: I mean, I'd love to hear more impressions of it, but you've sold me on it.

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.580

Tom: Well, it's pretty simple, so there isn't really much more to say about it than that.

00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:22.600

Tom: The one thing that would be a big negative in the context of classic 3D platformers and also Metroidvanias for that matter is due to the technicolor extraordinarily vivid nature of the graphics, the different environment styles rather blend together a bit.

00:24:22.620 --> 00:24:32.940

Tom: So when you're in the snow area, as an example, it doesn't feel that much different to the lava area just because everything is so overly saturated.

00:24:34.360 --> 00:24:40.560

Phil: So it's not like Project Warlock where you have distinctions between the lands, the different worlds.

00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:46.420

Tom: Well, you do have distinctions between them, but due to the extreme nature of the aesthetic...

00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.020

Phil: Really, would you describe it as overly saturated?

00:24:50.840 --> 00:24:52.580

Tom: It's very overly saturated.

00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:53.440

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:58.360

Tom: But again, with the sense of humour, it works pretty well.

00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.760

Phil: I just want to thank you for that.

00:25:01.780 --> 00:25:06.380

Phil: So that's Journey to the Savage Planet, published by 505 Games, available on everything.

00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:11.860

Phil: And I've got to say, I've been hearing more positive things about 505 Games recently.

00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:19.480

Phil: Back in the PlayStation 1 era, 505 was notoriously bad as a publisher and a developer.

00:25:21.780 --> 00:25:26.620

Phil: But they've been releasing some smart games lately, which is great, great to see.

00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:31.860

Phil: I recently picked up Doom Eternal for the Xbox One.

00:25:32.300 --> 00:25:41.080

Phil: I played the first Doom, not the original Doom, but you know what I mean, the new Doom reboot on the PlayStation 4.

00:25:41.560 --> 00:25:49.420

Phil: But these days, I've been sort of hedging more towards Xbox One because of their backward compatibility and all of that sort of thing.

00:25:49.440 --> 00:26:02.980

Phil: But this is another case, man, where, okay, so I put the disk in and it says, okay, do you want to install just the campaign mode or do you want to install the online multiplayer?

00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:06.700

Phil: I'm like, this is great because I'm not going to play the online multiplayer, so this is great.

00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.980

Phil: I'll just install the campaign mode.

00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:17.080

Phil: So it installs about 10 megabytes and then says, yeah, we're done.

00:26:17.100 --> 00:26:21.320

Phil: We've installed and nowhere is there an option for you to actually play it.

00:26:22.600 --> 00:26:30.680

Phil: So I do some research online and basically they go, yeah, you've got to actually install both before you can update.

00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.780

Phil: Okay, fine.

00:26:32.800 --> 00:26:34.740

Tom: Can you play without updating?

00:26:34.860 --> 00:26:37.280

Phil: No, you can't play without updating.

00:26:37.300 --> 00:26:39.660

Phil: You can't play without being online.

00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.520

Phil: It doesn't appear in your games to play list, you know, on the interface.

00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.140

Phil: And so, okay, I'll install the online multiplayer.

00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.500

Phil: So that's another 47 gig.

00:26:51.940 --> 00:26:55.960

Phil: And then there's a 22 gig update for the multiplayer.

00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.380

Phil: So I'm still downloading the 22 gig update for the multiplayer.

00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:07.920

Phil: Apparently then before you can play the campaign mode, you have to register with Bethesda to get a Bethesda online account.

00:27:09.020 --> 00:27:10.420

Phil: And then you can play the game.

00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:32.880

Phil: I'm really hacked off about, I'm like this far, I'm holding my thumb very close to my pointer finger from writing to the ACCC, which is the consumer, whatever they are, and say this is outrageous, because this is what happened, I was really pissed off, because I really love Call of Duty, I couldn't play the Call of Duty game I played.

00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:35.760

Phil: You buy a disc, you think you're going to be able to do it.

00:27:35.780 --> 00:27:42.700

Phil: I understand updates, I understand that's going to happen, and I understand installs, that's going to happen, but like this is getting ridiculous.

00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:46.760

Tom: Is there anywhere on the box that says Bethesda account required?

00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:56.940

Phil: No, I went back and read it this morning, and it says, you know, it's going to take up 50 gig of storage, and that's it.

00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:03.060

Phil: It doesn't say there's going to be a mandatory update, which all of these things should say, and it doesn't say it's going to require.

00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:06.740

Tom: And usually you'd expect them to say if you need an account of a certain time.

00:28:07.100 --> 00:28:13.900

Phil: Yeah, now it's a free account, I get it, you know, that's fine, but it's really annoying.

00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:15.060

Phil: It's really annoying.

00:28:15.080 --> 00:28:29.360

Phil: I know I need to get over it, but basically then, while I'm waiting for it to install, because I do want to play it, because Project Warlock has put me in the mood for this kind of entertainment, fantasy first person shooters, I guess.

00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:48.560

Phil: I just immediately turned around, I grabbed my copy of Duke, I know, get ready to say, okay, Boomer, I turned around, I get my copy of Duke Nukem 64, for the N64, I take the cartridge that I own, I put it in my N64, I turned it on, and I was playing it in 10 seconds.

00:28:48.800 --> 00:28:49.160

Phil: You know?

00:28:49.180 --> 00:28:50.800

Phil: I know.

00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:52.160

Phil: Just go ahead and say it.

00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:57.480

Tom: I think that's well since the days of Boomers, though.

00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:00.800

Tom: I think that's too young an experience for Boomers, isn't it?

00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.240

Tom: I think you should be nostalgic about your chess board or something to that effect.

00:29:06.520 --> 00:29:08.900

Phil: Well, you know the Internet more than I do.

00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:12.160

Phil: These days, there's only Boomers or Zoomers, and that's it.

00:29:13.280 --> 00:29:16.340

Phil: I think even you would be considered a boomer.

00:29:18.020 --> 00:29:25.380

Phil: I know the listeners must be sick of hearing a bitch about updates, but I've got to also say...

00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:29.820

Tom: That system, though, is ridiculous where they ask you what to install.

00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:39.180

Phil: Yes, and you go online, and this has happened to everyone who's bought this copy for the Xbox.

00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:41.700

Phil: Every single person has said, what am I doing wrong here?

00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:50.500

Phil: And then Microsoft comes on and goes, oh yeah, you need to install both, register with Bethesda, and then you can play.

00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:52.060

Phil: It's just ridiculous.

00:29:52.140 --> 00:30:01.640

Phil: Anyway, I hope, because they had refreshed the Xbox user interface so that it matches what's on the new Xboxes.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.160

Phil: So it's like, oh, this must be a part of the whole new thing.

00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:06.460

Phil: It's like, no, this was just a thing for Doom Eternal.

00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:10.760

Phil: So we can go in one or two directions here.

00:30:10.780 --> 00:30:16.720

Phil: I can give you my impressions of Project Warlock, or we can talk about the consoles that are releasing this week.

00:30:18.100 --> 00:30:22.440

Tom: Obviously, Project Warlock is much more interesting than new consoles.

00:30:22.560 --> 00:30:22.960

Phil: Yeah.

00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:38.500

Phil: So in episode 129, you spoke about a game by a company called Crunching Koalas, I believe is the name of the development company that did it, and you spoke effusively about it.

00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:44.060

Phil: It's a Doom Wolfenstein-inspired first-person shooter.

00:30:46.420 --> 00:31:01.940

Tom: It calls itself that it's inspired by Doom, Hexen and Wolfenstein, but it is in level design very much more in the vein of Wolfenstein, but in movement and shooting much more in the vein of Doom.

00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:06.960

Tom: So it's an interesting combination of influences ultimately.

00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.060

Phil: It's available on everything.

00:31:10.180 --> 00:31:12.080

Tom: And it has a free demo, I believe.

00:31:12.600 --> 00:31:13.140

Phil: Oh, excellent.

00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:16.200

Tom: And the developer was in fact Buckshot Software.

00:31:16.520 --> 00:31:17.420

Phil: Buckshot Software.

00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:20.240

Tom: But I can see how you got those two names mixed up.

00:31:20.260 --> 00:31:22.800

Phil: Well, Buckshot Software and Crunching Koalas had something to do with it.

00:31:22.820 --> 00:31:26.820

Phil: Maybe Crunching Koalas did the Switch conversion, possibly.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:29.340

Tom: They were possibly the sound design, maybe?

00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.900

Phil: Yeah, the sound design was amazing in this game.

00:31:33.300 --> 00:31:35.740

Phil: Tom talked about this game in episode 129.

00:31:35.760 --> 00:31:37.260

Phil: Go back and listen to what he has to say.

00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:41.980

Phil: He's much smarter than me in every aspect, including talking about video games.

00:31:43.080 --> 00:31:47.840

Phil: He convinced me to buy this through his words, and I bought it for the Switch.

00:31:49.600 --> 00:31:54.860

Phil: I have to say, playing it on the Switch Mobile does not...

00:31:55.020 --> 00:31:56.000

Phil: it doesn't function.

00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:58.780

Phil: There is no way you can...

00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:00.220

Phil: It is functional.

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:08.040

Phil: I mean, you can do it, but there's absolutely no way you would want to do it by using the crap controllers on the Switch itself.

00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:14.000

Phil: I'm playing it docked with the Master Controller, which is sublime.

00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:19.200

Phil: I don't know what battery technology they're using in it, but it puts Elon Musk to shame.

00:32:19.620 --> 00:32:25.380

Phil: Every company should be using whatever battery technology Nintendo uses for their pro controller.

00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:32.380

Phil: You basically plug it in once every four months and recharge it and it recharges like immediately.

00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:34.440

Phil: This game is brilliant.

00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:35.540

Phil: I absolutely love it.

00:32:35.840 --> 00:32:42.880

Phil: It is, I understand now when you were saying, when you first said, oh yeah, Wolfenstein's slow, Doom's slow.

00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:45.480

Phil: I'm like, that's an idiotic statement.

00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:48.100

Phil: Those games are phenomenally ridiculously fast.

00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:54.920

Phil: But now that I'm playing Project Warlock, yeah, those games are slow compared to Project Warlock.

00:32:55.280 --> 00:33:06.280

Phil: And it's just, what is sublime about this game is that they've applied not only the modern technology to those games, but also play sensibilities.

00:33:07.700 --> 00:33:24.760

Phil: And if you like first-person shooters, you like 90s shooters, and you like games like Demon's Souls, the Souls games, you're going to love this game because it's unrelentingly unforgivable of anything other than perfection.

00:33:25.080 --> 00:33:31.960

Phil: Now, I know you said it was easy, and the game does get easier as you progress, and I'm probably playing it wrong.

00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:37.220

Phil: And I certainly were not using magic for two-thirds of the game.

00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:38.800

Phil: I pulled an Aspro.

00:33:40.040 --> 00:33:44.020

Tom: Well, it is mainly in the last third that you need magic.

00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.280

Phil: Yeah, well, I guess...

00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:48.800

Tom: So you can do without magic for the first two-thirds.

00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:50.880

Phil: I know I'm playing it wrong.

00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:56.780

Phil: I know that anyone who's watching me play it would be just shrugging their shoulders and going, what's wrong with this person?

00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:58.640

Phil: But it's great.

00:33:58.660 --> 00:33:59.780

Phil: I mean, the weapons are great.

00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:07.160

Phil: You didn't mention, I don't think you mentioned, what a hand cannon the pistol is, which is obviously a tribute to Halo.

00:34:08.100 --> 00:34:09.400

Phil: The shotgun is ridiculous.

00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:12.700

Phil: I mean, the shotgun has a range of hundreds of meters, from what I can tell.

00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:16.120

Tom: It's essentially a single-shot rifle.

00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:18.100

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:20.960

Phil: And, you know, all the other weapons are kind of fun.

00:34:20.980 --> 00:34:23.540

Phil: I've finally got the rail gun.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.400

Phil: The speed of it is great.

00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.200

Phil: The aesthetic of it is great.

00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:33.720

Phil: The technical use of graphics is really wonderful.

00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:37.520

Phil: And I keep forgetting that it's a modern game, so I don't look up.

00:34:37.660 --> 00:34:39.680

Phil: I don't look down, you know.

00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:44.480

Phil: I'm used to just sort of tracking through it and not taking advantage of the graphics.

00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:47.200

Phil: But yeah, it's just a beautiful, beautiful game.

00:34:47.220 --> 00:34:52.580

Phil: And up until now, you know, I've played Kind Words a fair bit.

00:34:52.600 --> 00:34:56.100

Phil: I thought that was really innovative on the PC.

00:34:56.120 --> 00:35:01.840

Phil: But this, by far, unless I play something greater before the end of the year is my game of the year.

00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.460

Phil: So thanks for that recommendation.

00:35:04.660 --> 00:35:14.320

Phil: And yeah, I can recommend it for the Switch, played in the docked mode, which certainly means you can play it PlayStation 4, Xbox and PC.

00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:17.480

Phil: Now, you probably used keyboard, I'm assuming, when you played it PC.

00:35:18.020 --> 00:35:18.540

Tom: Of course.

00:35:19.620 --> 00:35:20.500

Phil: I wouldn't recommend that.

00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:24.140

Phil: Keyboards are for typing letters, not for playing video games.

00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:25.140

Tom: Keyboard and mouse.

00:35:27.540 --> 00:35:29.640

Tom: Without any aiming reticle.

00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:32.740

Tom: It is the only way to play, obviously.

00:35:32.860 --> 00:35:36.380

Phil: I put the aiming reticle on at the end.

00:35:37.720 --> 00:35:39.100

Phil: I'm in the last level now.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:50.760

Phil: The thing I'm asking about is, I thought there was somewhere where you can basically switch the shooting to Wolfenstein Doom, which is basically you just have to be facing the enemy to shoot.

00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.580

Phil: I didn't turn that on.

00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:58.860

Phil: I left it so that you still have to actually aim vertically as well.

00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:01.660

Phil: They would have had that option on PC.

00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:02.380

Phil: Did you notice it?

00:36:03.580 --> 00:36:05.080

Tom: I have no idea.

00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:09.660

Phil: The graphics options are really great on the Switch version.

00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:10.620

Tom: The console filters.

00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:12.860

Phil: Yeah, the console filters.

00:36:14.580 --> 00:36:17.020

Phil: You can turn on and off pretty much everything.

00:36:17.060 --> 00:36:17.780

Phil: It's really neat.

00:36:19.560 --> 00:36:26.980

Phil: And I really did not mind being sent all the way back to the start when I died.

00:36:29.080 --> 00:36:42.720

Phil: Basically, within each level, Tom didn't fully explain this, but within each theme, basically there is one, two, three, four, five, six different zones.

00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:47.580

Phil: And within those zones, they are made up of either two levels or three levels or four levels.

00:36:48.740 --> 00:36:51.360

Phil: Or in the case of the end boss, there's one level.

00:36:51.700 --> 00:36:59.000

Phil: So if you were to die on level two, then you would have to go back.

00:36:59.020 --> 00:37:04.860

Phil: And if you died on level two or four, you would have to go back to level one and replay level one.

00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:09.140

Phil: So really it beats you up in terms of the time that you lose.

00:37:09.660 --> 00:37:12.180

Phil: But I really loved that.

00:37:12.220 --> 00:37:16.920

Phil: I loved replaying and mastering each and every level.

00:37:17.560 --> 00:37:20.100

Phil: And I really savoring the boss battles.

00:37:21.140 --> 00:37:25.600

Phil: It's no spoiler really to talk about in the industrial age theme.

00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:29.320

Phil: There was a tank, a mechanical tank at the end of it.

00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:30.040

Phil: Do you remember that one?

00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:30.780

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:32.220

Phil: Do you remember how you beat it?

00:37:33.160 --> 00:37:36.400

Tom: Well, I actually saw a steam thread on this.

00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:41.760

Tom: And apparently a lot of people had great difficulty with it.

00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:44.140

Tom: That was actually one of the easiest bosses for me.

00:37:44.160 --> 00:37:45.300

Phil: It was the easiest, yep.

00:37:46.520 --> 00:37:48.680

Tom: So I have no idea what they were on about.

00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:54.880

Phil: Well, you might not remember, but this is not a spoiler, but if you want to figure it out for yourself, skip ahead a minute.

00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:58.020

Phil: But you start out in a little alcove on that level.

00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:08.840

Phil: So basically I ran out of the alcove, spammed it with rocket grenades, launches, spammed it with rockets, killed it in its first element, and then ran back into that alcove.

00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:14.840

Phil: Because the tank can't hurt you when you're in that alcove, because it's charging up and just hitting the wall.

00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:27.200

Phil: And then from in there, as long as you're not using something that's going to have any splash back, you can shoot it with your pistol, you can stab it with a dagger until you get through the next two levels.

00:38:28.020 --> 00:38:33.920

Tom: See, I just ran out there, shot it circle strafing until the second form.

00:38:33.940 --> 00:38:35.880

Tom: That's when it springs at you, right?

00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:36.280

Phil: Yeah.

00:38:36.700 --> 00:38:42.700

Tom: And jumped out of the way when it did that, because from what I can recall, it was pretty telegraphed when it was going to do that.

00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:52.240

Phil: It was telegraphed, but at least with a console controller, it's not as easy to get out of the way.

00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:53.680

Tom: For sure.

00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:54.200

Phil: Yeah.

00:38:54.220 --> 00:39:06.160

Phil: But circle strafing with an automatic weapon is good for a lot of enemies that have attacks where they're throwing something, because basically they can never get to the animation, because they're constantly just reacting to being shot.

00:39:07.740 --> 00:39:08.720

Phil: Yeah, so it's brilliant.

00:39:08.740 --> 00:39:09.420

Phil: I absolutely love it.

00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.480

Phil: Name of the game, Project Warlock, and I thoroughly recommend it.

00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:17.140

Phil: I think I paid about 25 bucks for the downloadable Switch version.

00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:21.580

Phil: So thank you again for bringing new games to me.

00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:23.380

Tom: I'm glad you enjoyed it that much.

00:39:23.620 --> 00:39:24.320

Phil: Ah, love it.

00:39:24.680 --> 00:39:25.080

Phil: Love it.

00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:25.720

Phil: Game of the Year.

00:39:26.980 --> 00:39:32.960

Tom: And for the record, Crunching Koala, I believe, were the people who ported it to consoles.

00:39:33.160 --> 00:39:34.260

Phil: Okay, brilliant.

00:39:34.300 --> 00:39:37.200

Phil: So they must be Aussies, I'm assuming, unless they just love koalas.

00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:45.300

Tom: Before we move on, we do have to ask you how many meows does Project Warlock get?

00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:53.400

Phil: Okay, well, I work on a three-meow scale, and you know that I use the entirety of the scale, so don't be disappointed, but I'm going to issue it.

00:39:53.420 --> 00:40:01.900

Phil: That's three meows out of three meows.

00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:03.440

Phil: It's the cat's meow, kids.

00:40:03.580 --> 00:40:04.760

Phil: Put that on the back of the box.

00:40:06.540 --> 00:40:13.060

Tom: And I'm yet to rate Journey to the Savage Planet as I have yet to finish the game itself.

00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:14.840

Phil: Fair enough.

00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:18.400

Phil: Maybe I'll beat it before you do, and I'll give it a score first.

00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:19.920

Phil: Yeah, right.

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:25.760

Tom: But I believe there are some new consoles about to be released.

00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.060

Phil: Yes, yes, there are.

00:40:28.820 --> 00:40:30.780

Phil: PlayStation 5 and Xbox.

00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:33.020

Phil: They're both getting good reviews.

00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:44.740

Phil: I'd say the place, the Xbox is getting reviews for great hardware and superior aesthetic design and its backward compatibility.

00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:51.700

Phil: The backward compatibility is not for 100% of their back catalog.

00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:58.800

Phil: So let's just get that completely straight because that was out there for a very long time and it was very confusing to me and couldn't get to the bottom of it.

00:41:01.040 --> 00:41:09.620

Phil: So basically only the original Xbox and Xbox 360 games that were supported in this generation are supported on the next generation.

00:41:09.640 --> 00:41:37.160

Phil: Not to say they're not going to add more, but apparently both consoles have exceptional backward compatibility for the current generation, improving games on the fly with Microsoft's tech just outflagging the PlayStation a little bit more because somehow Microsoft's figured out how to do it natively with HDR improvements and things like that, frame rate, whereas the stuff for the PlayStation has to be curated.

00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:45.920

Phil: So there are games that aren't necessarily upgraded and games that are, but the load times are consistent for both.

00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:52.020

Phil: So PlayStation obviously is loading it faster than on the current generation.

00:41:52.840 --> 00:42:18.320

Phil: I was really thinking about, because now that Sony has revealed that the PlayStation 5 is fully compatible with almost all of the PlayStation 4 library, this I'm thinking would be a great time to take advantage of one of those GameStop or EB Games offers where they say, you know, pre-order a PlayStation 5 and we'll give you a $200 credit if you hand in a PlayStation 4.

00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:26.860

Phil: Because if it's playing PlayStation 5 games flawlessly, and pretty much all of them, then why keep around the old hardware?

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.400

Phil: I mean, $200 off a $700 console, that's a great savings.

00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:41.140

Tom: I personally could sell my PS4 and buy a new PS5 for a profit as it has PT on it.

00:42:42.380 --> 00:42:43.020

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

00:42:43.040 --> 00:42:46.600

Phil: PT was a PlayStation 4, and mine, I also have PT on it.

00:42:46.600 --> 00:42:48.520

Phil: Is that selling, seriously?

00:42:49.060 --> 00:42:53.320

Tom: Yep, I believe it is selling for upwards of $1,000.

00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:54.100

Phil: Are you kidding me?

00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:55.280

Tom: No, I'm not.

00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.120

Phil: Okay, I'll send you my PlayStation 4, can you sell it for me?

00:42:58.140 --> 00:43:00.460

Phil: And you can keep $200 off the top.

00:43:00.680 --> 00:43:01.300

Phil: I'm serious.

00:43:02.620 --> 00:43:05.500

Phil: I don't want to go through the hassle of actually doing it, but I'll send it to you.

00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:08.020

Tom: Potentially.

00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:18.920

Phil: The one thing I'm worried about is okay, it's backward compatible, but does that mean when I go put my PlayStation 4 disc in it, it now has to go out and download a 200 gig?

00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.020

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

00:43:24.820 --> 00:43:25.700

Phil: That would not be great.

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:29.160

Phil: Yeah, so look, it's all steaming ahead.

00:43:29.180 --> 00:43:34.360

Phil: I mean, if I were to get a new console today, I'd be really struck.

00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:35.600

Phil: You can't buy them in Australia.

00:43:35.620 --> 00:43:36.300

Phil: They're sold out.

00:43:37.060 --> 00:43:41.440

Phil: On the Microsoft side, I love the look of the Series X.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:45.020

Phil: I think it has a lot going for it.

00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:49.620

Phil: I'm a big fan of the backward compatibility, but there's no games for it.

00:43:51.560 --> 00:43:59.500

Phil: I know there are some games for it, like Yakuza 7 Like a Dragon, which is an exclusive until around January or February.

00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:17.060

Phil: But on the PlayStation 5 side, you've got this really very interesting haptic controller that would give you the feeling of having a new generation or something new as opposed to just upgrading your hardware so you can play your current games.

00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:28.680

Tom: One interesting thing about the haptic controller is from most trailers of PS5 games I've seen, they're not really alluded to it at all.

00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:37.260

Phil: No, it's really only come out in the last week, week and a half with people with hands-on impressions of it.

00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:41.380

Phil: They haven't really made a big deal out of it and it's apparently very, very impressive.

00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:46.020

Tom: So it is being made use of, but they are not advertising it for some reason.

00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.340

Phil: Yeah, for some reason.

00:44:48.340 --> 00:44:48.940

Phil: I don't know why.

00:44:49.680 --> 00:44:54.960

Tom: Maybe it is because of the bad rap controls doing anything different get.

00:44:55.620 --> 00:44:57.120

Phil: Yeah, so they're just downplaying that.

00:44:57.140 --> 00:45:00.020

Phil: I don't know, though.

00:45:00.040 --> 00:45:04.060

Phil: It's such an innovation and everyone has uniformly praised it.

00:45:05.220 --> 00:45:12.320

Phil: I remember being introduced to the concept of haptic controls with Igor Bobovich years ago.

00:45:12.340 --> 00:45:15.320

Phil: You know, it sounds like they're finally there.

00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:37.320

Tom: Yep, but I think that could well be the strategy because if you think about, for instance, VR controllers, while there is some reference made to them in the advertising for VR headsets, the main focus is on the screen and refresh rates and all that sort of thing.

00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:45.140

Tom: And then without having advertised that in the reviews, there will be a lot of talk about the controls themselves.

00:45:45.160 --> 00:45:51.060

Tom: And if they've been doing anything interesting or different, that will get really emphasized in the reviews.

00:45:51.140 --> 00:45:58.580

Tom: So they may be going for a similar strategy like that given the bad rap that motion controls got.

00:45:58.600 --> 00:46:09.040

Tom: Not that this is motion controls, but it is interfering with the frightening, with the, sorry, fears of gamers of having to potentially do something different.

00:46:09.260 --> 00:46:09.840

Phil: Exactly.

00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:11.420

Phil: Yeah, no, that's an excellent point.

00:46:11.540 --> 00:46:20.260

Phil: And let the influencers push that when it's working and used effectively as opposed to scaring people.

00:46:20.380 --> 00:46:29.720

Phil: Because I can guarantee that 98 out of 100 people, if you tell them it's got a, quote, new haptic controller, that will freak them out.

00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:31.720

Phil: They're like, what the, you know, what does that mean?

00:46:31.740 --> 00:46:33.120

Phil: No, I, you know, work.

00:46:34.740 --> 00:46:45.120

Phil: But if they hear that, you know, oh, the motion, you know, when you're using a controller, it feels like you're actually walking through sand or walking through snow, however the hell they do that, then that's great.

00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:58.480

Phil: So yeah, I mean, at this point, I would be happy to be buying either one of them, but I gotta tell you, man, this whole download thing and update thing has really bummed me out about modern gaming this week.

00:46:58.940 --> 00:47:02.280

Phil: I'm kind of down on the whole thing, and that's kind of why I like the Switch.

00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:04.940

Phil: As I said earlier, I know that the updates are gonna be small.

00:47:04.940 --> 00:47:08.480

Phil: It all comes on a cartridge, and I can play it portably.

00:47:09.100 --> 00:47:18.380

Phil: So it's funny how the, you know, my tastes in platform holder changes, has changed over the year and continues to change.

00:47:19.420 --> 00:47:20.900

Phil: But that's just where I'm at right now.

00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:32.760

Phil: And yeah, so I don't really want to belabor that point, but you know, I put in a copy of Halo Master Chief Collection, because I heard that that's finally working well.

00:47:33.820 --> 00:47:41.740

Phil: And I put it in my Xbox One and said, hey, you know, congratulations, there's a 110 gigabyte update.

00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:44.000

Phil: And I was like, well, I don't need that.

00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:53.580

Tom: By the way, that 110 gigabyte update would be literally the entire game, because that's about how big the download for it is on PC.

00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:56.640

Phil: Yeah, so they're essentially using this.

00:47:56.940 --> 00:48:00.660

Phil: And this game, by the way, you used to work on my Xbox One.

00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:03.700

Phil: So like I used to be able to play whatever was on it before.

00:48:03.720 --> 00:48:09.940

Phil: And now they're basically saying, well, that disk that you put in your system is your authentication that you've actually paid for it.

00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:20.660

Phil: So we'll sit back and we'll now download the latest version of the game, which, you know, so I was like, I'm not going to, I was like, damn it, I should get on eBay and just sell this copy of this game now.

00:48:20.680 --> 00:48:34.500

Phil: But I'm hanging in there because, you know, my internet situation might change in a year and I'll have a nice new Xbox and I'll want to have the Master Chief experience because apparently it's really good now.

00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:39.320

Phil: And I'd love to be able to play Halo 2 online again, like we did back in the day.

00:48:40.560 --> 00:48:51.840

Tom: Well, I think it won't be like it was back in the day because as far as I'm aware, the online system is basically a combination of the different games.

00:48:52.700 --> 00:48:56.600

Tom: So you're not literally playing Halo 2 online.

00:48:57.060 --> 00:49:00.460

Tom: You can play elements of Halo 2 online.

00:49:01.720 --> 00:49:02.640

Tom: That could be wrong.

00:49:02.660 --> 00:49:08.440

Tom: That's what I gathered from glancing at the multiplayer to play in Master Chief Collection.

00:49:09.460 --> 00:49:13.860

Phil: Have you been playing any of the Master Chief Collection?

00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:26.840

Tom: Yes, I have now finished Halo 3 and Halo 3 ODST after the tremendously disappointing experience of the first level of Halo Reach.

00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:37.160

Tom: And I believe we had first impressions for Halo 3 a couple of episodes ago, or perhaps even in the last episode.

00:49:37.780 --> 00:49:46.420

Tom: But I have now finished it, and again, after Halo Reach, it is a huge relief that Halo 3 is so good.

00:49:46.440 --> 00:50:07.960

Tom: And Halo 3, at least the campaign, but it also applies to how the online multiplayer feels as well, to a degree, I think is the most misrepresented and simultaneously overrated and underrated first-person shooter, if not game, full stop.

00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:27.040

Tom: Because it gets huge praise as, say, building on something like Half-Life, with it being a very narrative-driven experience and all about the story and pacing, and that is there to a degree.

00:50:27.740 --> 00:50:42.220

Tom: But the reason that Halo campaigns are worth playing isn't that at all, but that at certain times, you have this completely unique gameplay mechanics of Halo that is unlike any other first-person shooter.

00:50:42.460 --> 00:50:55.700

Tom: And you have certain sections in levels or even whole levels sometimes, where the combinations of enemies that absolutely, for some reason people think the AI is good.

00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:57.100

Tom: I think they're confused.

00:50:57.500 --> 00:51:26.020

Tom: What makes the enemies good in Halo is the way the different weapons interact, the way their shields work, and how that affects you going for headshots, and also the fact that they have completely different strategies, not so much in how they behave, but in how you have to combat them because of how their weapons work and their use of shields and that sort of thing.

00:51:26.240 --> 00:51:46.060

Tom: So in the best levels, you end up with moments that are like Doom, where you are running all over the place, and not necessarily purely aggressively, but simultaneously being chased by enemies, as well as attacking enemies and having to make creative use of your weapons.

00:51:46.380 --> 00:52:16.800

Tom: And another thing that really contributes to a unique campaign experience is how scarce the ammo is, so that you're having to constantly cycle through different weapons, and sometimes try and save powerful weapons for certain situations, but often you're forced to use them on weak enemies, which will then result in you having to use a weak weapon on a group of stronger enemies, and really having to improvise a clever strategy to be able to deal with it.

00:52:17.600 --> 00:52:22.500

Tom: And the Halo 3 campaign has many, many moments of this.

00:52:22.520 --> 00:52:46.600

Tom: It's a big step up from the Halo 2 campaign, to say the least, and from what I remember of the Halo campaign, it is much tighter in the good moments, and less, though still perhaps too many, moments of just wandering around, being fed the next bit of the story.

00:52:47.700 --> 00:52:52.500

Phil: Yeah, I actually, in retrospect, I actually really enjoyed Halo 2 and 3.

00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:53.760

Phil: I thought they were great.

00:52:53.920 --> 00:53:02.040

Phil: Good games, very enjoyable, and obviously the mechanics of the shooting in the games, I don't think anyone disagrees with, is quite strong.

00:53:02.380 --> 00:53:16.360

Phil: To your point about enemy AI in Halo, it reminded me that one of the things I really wish Project Warlock had, which is what Doom had, which is the friendly fire element.

00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:19.680

Phil: So friendly fire does occur in Project Warlock.

00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:23.040

Phil: If an enemy gets in the way of another enemy, they will die.

00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:33.480

Phil: But there's not the sort of thing that happens in Doom where if you put two enemies in the same room, they will go after each other just as much as they'll go after you.

00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:37.440

Phil: And I think that's where Project Warlock fell down on the game.

00:53:37.460 --> 00:53:41.600

Tom: I think that would have made Project Warlock a bit too chaotic.

00:53:42.220 --> 00:53:45.040

Phil: Yeah, I think I would have appreciated it.

00:53:45.060 --> 00:53:58.600

Phil: And perhaps not all of them go after each other, but if you could have certain character types not get along, so they'd leave 9 out of 10 of the others OK, but they really hated imps.

00:53:58.900 --> 00:54:01.720

Tom: Yeah, I think there were a couple of moments of that.

00:54:02.200 --> 00:54:02.940

Phil: I haven't seen it.

00:54:03.060 --> 00:54:03.740

Phil: I haven't seen it.

00:54:03.940 --> 00:54:08.200

Phil: I've seen accidental friendly fire, but I haven't seen anywhere they've actually turned on each other.

00:54:08.720 --> 00:54:11.760

Phil: But the enemy AI in Halo, I think you're right.

00:54:11.780 --> 00:54:12.980

Phil: I think people are confused.

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:27.180

Phil: I think one of the things that why people think the enemy AI in Halo is good is because it was new to a game when it came out to have distinct character types demonstrate different AI or different responses.

00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:35.960

Phil: So you would have in a game like Doom, you'd have different enemies that had different movement patterns and different strengths and things like that.

00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:40.740

Phil: But in terms of how they interacted with the player, it was consistent.

00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:48.460

Phil: Whereas in Halo, as we all know, the grunts reacted differently than other enemies.

00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:55.640

Phil: I think that's where people get confused a little bit about the capabilities of enemy AI.

00:54:55.640 --> 00:54:56.560

Phil: I think that enemy AI...

00:54:56.580 --> 00:55:06.260

Tom: I think that's there to some degree in Doom, but certainly when you move to 3D first-person shooters, that does indeed go to the wayside.

00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.520

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:07.820 --> 00:55:12.480

Phil: And it gets common these days, but I think that was just one of the first to do it.

00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:20.060

Phil: And of course, you know, Halo exposed itself to a lot of people that hadn't been playing first-person shooters on the PC as well.

00:55:20.080 --> 00:55:24.120

Phil: So I think it benefits from that Halo effect.

00:55:24.740 --> 00:55:26.700

Phil: If you'll pardon the pun, we'll play on words.

00:55:27.820 --> 00:55:28.880

Tom: Yes, absolutely.

00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:59.720

Tom: And just the other thing that stands out about it as well is, obviously, one of the things that stands out about Halo is even though it's got a lot of pretty on-the-nose science fiction influences in its aesthetic, the way it puts them together is utterly engrossing and it uses some lower-brow things like jungles combined with higher-brow science fiction things in a really interesting way.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:16.880

Tom: And the music use of orchestra, rock music, quote, tribal, end quote, drums and that sort of thing is just unlike any other first-person shooter as well and unlike many other games for that matter.

00:56:17.500 --> 00:56:35.220

Phil: Well, I've got to wonder, you know, Marty O'Donnell, who was the composer on Halo, you know, you're talking about the tribal drums and all the rest of it, he must have been a real asshole or something because they fired him off of Destiny a couple of years ago.

00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:39.900

Phil: And you're thinking like, how much must a composer really piss people off?

00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:46.480

Phil: Because it's not like he's in the office every day, you know, for you to fire him because he was doing capable work.

00:56:47.160 --> 00:56:47.560

Phil: I mean...

00:56:47.580 --> 00:56:49.740

Tom: He was doing more than capable work.

00:56:50.200 --> 00:56:53.480

Phil: Yeah, I mean, you know, he was doing good work.

00:56:53.800 --> 00:57:00.080

Phil: And they fired the guy and it wasn't like a, you know, pat on the back memo that went out or anything.

00:57:00.080 --> 00:57:03.380

Phil: So anyway, you got to wonder what was going on there.

00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:04.500

Phil: So that's Halo 3.

00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:09.640

Phil: You said you've also beaten the worst Halo game of all time.

00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:17.020

Phil: Well, actually, Halo 4 and 5 are pretty horrible, but nothing is worse as a video game.

00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:20.700

Phil: I'll tell you what Halo ODST reminds me of.

00:57:21.120 --> 00:57:24.360

Phil: I don't know if you remember me playing the game Chicago in Forces.

00:57:25.140 --> 00:57:25.780

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:27.340

Phil: Yeah, that's what ODST-

00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:29.500

Tom: I'm still to yet get around to playing.

00:57:30.460 --> 00:57:34.280

Phil: That's what ODST reminded me of in many, many ways.

00:57:40.940 --> 00:57:42.720

Phil: so this was your first time you've actually played it?

00:57:43.340 --> 00:57:43.860

Tom: Correct.

00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:51.400

Tom: And at first I was relieved that it was not as bad as Halo Reach.

00:57:52.680 --> 00:57:55.700

Tom: That quickly faded to the wayside.

00:57:55.720 --> 00:58:25.800

Tom: As I was saying, the wonderful thing about Halo that makes the campaigns worth playing and sitting through the down moments that are totally uninteresting and just a drag to get through, is those improvisational moments where enemies are in an interesting environment, in an interesting combination, and you really have to think about what you're doing, what weapons you're using, what weapons the enemies are using, and all that sort of thing.

00:58:26.080 --> 00:58:43.760

Tom: That rather disappears in Halo ODOST because literally half of the game, if not 60% of it, is you wandering through identically designed city streets and street corners with identical enemy arrangements.

00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:53.700

Tom: So you'll be going along, you get to an open area, in the open area there's a bunch of enemies in the middle, a long way away, and some snipers in the corners.

00:58:53.740 --> 00:58:57.920

Tom: And so you kill the snipers first, then you go to the enemies in the middle.

00:58:58.080 --> 00:59:02.740

Tom: And that's basically the entire combat loop for one half of the game.

00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:15.940

Tom: The rest of that time is spent wandering through these just terrible, drab and banal city streets that are totally soulless and void of all life.

00:59:16.900 --> 00:59:25.500

Tom: And the rest of it is almost Call of Duty style pacing set pieces where everything is really controlled.

00:59:26.540 --> 00:59:37.120

Tom: There are one or two exceptions to that, like the end of the tank mission where you have to survive an onslaught of enemies being dropped in.

00:59:37.200 --> 00:59:42.100

Tom: That was one moment that stood out of allowing for some spontaneous gameplay.

00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:59.900

Tom: But for the most part, the levels are, you just drive a ghost around for 20 minutes as an example, or you go through a bunch of corridors with successively more powerful enemies as you would in a more generic first person shooter.

00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:07.720

Tom: And it just feels like Bungie does not want to make Halo anymore and wants to be making a different game.

01:00:08.240 --> 01:00:44.720

Tom: The story as well goes from being an interesting combination of generic sci-fi influences, but one that mixes the high brow and the low brow in an interesting way to some awful degrade action movie narrative with one moment that is just brilliant where there is a romantic subplot and the scene where the two characters finally confess their feelings for one another and kiss is just so unbelievably hilarious.

01:00:44.740 --> 01:00:46.660

Tom: It almost makes it worth it.

01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:54.640

Tom: But other than that as the highlight of the game, it is coming from Halo 3 an incredible disappointment.

01:00:54.980 --> 01:01:00.820

Phil: I recently listened to episode 98 of our podcast because I missed speaking with you.

01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:06.060

Phil: And in there we reenacted a scene from Splatoon where we were talking about baby corn.

01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:10.860

Phil: I'd like us to recreate a scene from Halo ODST.

01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.640

Phil: I've just sent you a script that's out of the manual if you can see that.

01:01:15.460 --> 01:01:17.640

Phil: I'll put Halo music behind this.

01:01:17.660 --> 01:01:21.980

Phil: I think we should reenact this scene when you're ready, if you've got that up there.

01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:27.480

Phil: And I'll say the first line and then you're the second.

01:01:27.540 --> 01:01:30.060

Phil: So do you see those little indicators on there?

01:01:30.680 --> 01:01:31.420

Tom: Yes, I do.

01:01:35.780 --> 01:01:36.960

Phil: Make it quick, Captain.

01:01:37.080 --> 01:01:39.640

Phil: You're not the only bee buzzing in my hive today.

01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.040

Tom: Of course, sir.

01:01:42.260 --> 01:01:44.500

Tom: There's a priority asset in the city.

01:01:44.620 --> 01:01:45.940

Tom: We need to pull it out.

01:01:46.600 --> 01:01:48.040

Phil: Can you be more specific?

01:01:49.160 --> 01:01:51.700

Tom: Sending you me report with relevant image.

01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.760

Phil: I'll be damned.

01:01:54.160 --> 01:01:57.920

Phil: Either the Covenant's getting Masturbator, or we're getting lucky.

01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:00.480

Tom: Let's hope a little bit of both.

01:02:01.300 --> 01:02:03.400

Phil: This intel didn't come from your shop?

01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:05.120

Tom: No, sir.

01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:09.580

Tom: For the public city's security cameras in the urinals.

01:02:10.300 --> 01:02:11.240

Phil: Verification.

01:02:12.300 --> 01:02:14.200

Phil: And unfortunately, that's all we've got.

01:02:14.220 --> 01:02:19.340

Phil: This is an example of the dialogue they were proud to include in the manual.

01:02:19.900 --> 01:02:23.160

Tom: It's not even as good as our embellished version.

01:02:23.180 --> 01:02:30.960

Phil: No, because there was a flash flare on the image, so I couldn't read either the Covenant's getting something or we're getting lucky.

01:02:32.120 --> 01:02:34.580

Phil: But when he says we need to pull it out, that's what she said.

01:02:36.020 --> 01:02:50.540

Phil: Back in episode 55, and this is an incredible introduction, in episode 55 of The Game Under Podcast, we were supposed to do a big show, but instead you suggested that we do the longest trademark banter segment ever.

01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:59.700

Phil: And the result was a show of chaos featuring everything from the jazz piano stylings of Halo 3 ODST, so I must have pulled that before.

01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:05.480

Phil: This is the episode where I revealed Barack Obama's cameo in Advent Rising.

01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:12.660

Phil: I don't know if you remember, there was Barack Obama was mentioned in Advent Rising.

01:03:13.420 --> 01:03:16.540

Phil: And we also talked about Murdered Soul Suspect.

01:03:17.540 --> 01:03:18.440

Phil: Do you remember that game?

01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:20.940

Tom: Yep, I reviewed that game, I believe.

01:03:22.140 --> 01:03:26.380

Phil: And I compared Mario Kart 8 to Huffing Paint, but in a good way.

01:03:28.240 --> 01:03:29.580

Phil: So, yeah.

01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:30.640

Tom: It was a bad way.

01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:31.780

Phil: It sounds like a good episode.

01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:34.660

Phil: Episode 55 Game Under Podcast is actually...

01:03:35.140 --> 01:03:36.280

Phil: Sorry, why do I bring that up?

01:03:36.580 --> 01:03:41.000

Phil: That's the episode in which I gave my impressions of Halo ODST.

01:03:41.720 --> 01:03:43.220

Phil: So, I'm glad we brought back...

01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:47.680

Phil: You should be on the lookout for dialogue in your games that we can reenact on the show.

01:03:48.100 --> 01:03:49.100

Phil: I think people would love it.

01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:50.100

Phil: I know I love it.

01:03:50.120 --> 01:03:52.460

Phil: I mean, I might get a gig out of it.

01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:54.080

Phil: I mean, I thought my acting was pretty good.

01:03:54.820 --> 01:03:57.320

Tom: We could add it to your acting resume.

01:03:57.420 --> 01:03:58.580

Phil: I thought you were going to add it to...

01:03:58.940 --> 01:04:03.080

Phil: I thought you were going to go with a pimply-voiced teen for your part.

01:04:04.120 --> 01:04:10.620

Tom: No, I was subtly directing it towards the innuendo of carry-on.

01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:11.100

Phil: Yes.

01:04:11.120 --> 01:04:11.940

Tom: And succeeded.

01:04:12.040 --> 01:04:13.260

Phil: Yeah, it was very camp.

01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:13.760

Phil: It was good.

01:04:14.020 --> 01:04:16.760

Phil: Anyway, good improv.

01:04:16.780 --> 01:04:24.460

Phil: So I am absolutely thrilled to hear that you had the same disgust with ODST that I did.

01:04:24.640 --> 01:04:26.660

Phil: The most frustrating thing about it was...

01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:39.240

Phil: And the thing that was most like Chicago Enforcer is walking around this personality-less city with everything looking the same, with mediocre enemies, and just getting lost constantly.

01:04:39.460 --> 01:04:40.420

Phil: It was terrible.

01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:42.580

Phil: Absolutely terrible.

01:04:42.900 --> 01:04:44.060

Phil: It's a piece of garbage.

01:04:44.540 --> 01:04:46.040

Tom: It is horrendous.

01:04:46.160 --> 01:04:51.420

Phil: I think the only reason they made it is kind of like, you know those artists that have like a seven album deal with a publisher?

01:04:51.700 --> 01:04:54.720

Phil: It's like Bungie had a seven game deal.

01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:59.740

Phil: And it's like, OK, well, we'll spit out Halo Wars, a real time strategy.

01:05:00.140 --> 01:05:02.800

Phil: And then this ODST thing, which is a joke.

01:05:03.200 --> 01:05:05.940

Phil: And this is Gargan's favorite Halo?

01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:08.140

Phil: I think so.

01:05:08.160 --> 01:05:10.100

Tom: Surely for online though.

01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:12.900

Phil: Well, you know, he's the anti Phil.

01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:18.360

Phil: Because Reach to me is the best Halo game ever.

01:05:19.040 --> 01:05:20.500

Phil: And ODST is the worst.

01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:24.560

Phil: I was under the impression that he thought Reach was the worst and ODST was the best.

01:05:25.060 --> 01:05:27.500

Phil: This is the clown from Endless Backline.

01:05:27.520 --> 01:05:30.000

Tom: He certainly thinks Reach is the worst campaign.

01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:36.860

Tom: But I don't know if his love for ODST is based on the campaign or the multiplayer.

01:05:37.980 --> 01:05:40.400

Phil: So how many cats me out?

01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.240

Phil: Do you have anything else to say about ODST?

01:05:42.260 --> 01:05:43.760

Phil: It's just a complete waste of time, right?

01:05:43.780 --> 01:05:44.640

Phil: It's a piece of garbage.

01:05:45.300 --> 01:05:48.200

Tom: I think it's already pretty much summarized.

01:05:49.120 --> 01:05:52.380

Tom: There's really nothing to add about how bad it is.

01:05:52.400 --> 01:06:00.720

Tom: Other than I did enjoy, it really showed how totally uninspired they were.

01:06:01.600 --> 01:06:07.880

Tom: One of the things that stands out about Halo 1 to 3 is each game feels like a passion project.

01:06:08.820 --> 01:06:21.600

Tom: The only part of Halo 3 ODST that felt like any sort of love had got into it were the voice log cartoons.

01:06:22.580 --> 01:06:33.280

Tom: And when your voice log cartoons are the only part of the game where some sort of affection is apparent from the people creating it, that's not a good sign.

01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:35.700

Phil: No, it's not.

01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:37.140

Phil: But you know what is a good sign?

01:06:38.640 --> 01:06:48.740

Phil: Your writing at gameunder.net, the website that accompanies this podcast, I put up a review of Kind Words, Lo-Fi Chill Beats to write to.

01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:54.000

Phil: Now when I asked you online if you played this game, you said there's a game of that.

01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:57.880

Phil: What is Lo-Fi Chill Beats to write to?

01:06:58.620 --> 01:07:00.000

Phil: What is Lo-Fi Chill Beats?

01:07:00.020 --> 01:07:00.540

Phil: What is that?

01:07:01.980 --> 01:07:04.620

Tom: That would be, what's the term?

01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:06.760

Tom: That would be like Vaporwave, that sort of thing.

01:07:07.380 --> 01:07:07.800

Phil: What's that?

01:07:07.820 --> 01:07:13.220

Tom: That sort of generic, poppy, rap-influenced beats.

01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:20.740

Tom: Basically the modern version of world music or elevator music, essentially.

01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:25.380

Phil: Well, I reviewed that game, and up until Project Warlock, that was going to be my game of the year, definitely.

01:07:26.240 --> 01:07:28.220

Phil: So go read my review there.

01:07:28.640 --> 01:07:36.960

Phil: And then you reviewed Vampyr, or Vampire, which is another game that I really want to play.

01:07:37.720 --> 01:07:43.800

Phil: It's not at my price point yet, but yeah, I really want to play that game.

01:07:44.240 --> 01:07:45.580

Phil: And so go read that review.

01:07:45.600 --> 01:07:49.720

Phil: A game that I'm rarely interested in, and I don't know if you can...

01:07:50.020 --> 01:07:57.860

Tom: Before we move on to my wonderful writing in more detail, we should give Halo 3 and ODST a score.

01:07:57.880 --> 01:07:58.460

Phil: Oh, I'm sorry.

01:07:58.520 --> 01:07:59.620

Phil: Yeah, of course.

01:08:00.380 --> 01:08:03.360

Tom: The dice is handy and ready to roll.

01:08:03.480 --> 01:08:07.380

Phil: Okay, I'm looking in the Scores Archive at gameunder.net to see if I've scored it.

01:08:08.260 --> 01:08:09.080

Phil: And I have not.

01:08:09.260 --> 01:08:10.480

Phil: Okay, you got the dice ready?

01:08:10.700 --> 01:08:11.680

Phil: The die of destiny?

01:08:12.920 --> 01:08:17.260

Tom: I do indeed, and it will be Halo 3, which is scored first.

01:08:17.500 --> 01:08:17.880

Phil: Okay.

01:08:20.400 --> 01:08:23.120

Tom: Uh, Halo 3 gets a 1 out of 10.

01:08:23.980 --> 01:08:26.700

Phil: Okay, well, I gotta say that's pretty harsh.

01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:30.600

Tom: It's very harsh, unfortunately.

01:08:30.780 --> 01:08:31.140

Phil: Yeah.

01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:36.060

Tom: And the odds are that Halo 3 ODST will score higher than Halo 3.

01:08:42.724 --> 01:08:51.564

Tom: Halo 3 ODST gets a 6 out of 10, making it 6 times better than Halo 3.

01:08:51.584 --> 01:08:52.044

Phil: Yep, yep.

01:08:52.064 --> 01:08:54.104

Phil: Well, no one can argue with your scoring system.

01:08:54.644 --> 01:08:57.384

Phil: I'm looking at our scores archive at my website.

01:08:57.704 --> 01:09:02.904

Phil: The only Halo game that I've got up there is Halo 5, which I gave a 6.5 out of 10.

01:09:03.744 --> 01:09:04.824

Phil: So for...

01:09:04.964 --> 01:09:07.784

Tom: It's slightly better than Halo 3 ODST.

01:09:07.804 --> 01:09:15.184

Phil: Well, if me and you are dire on the same scoring scale, but you know what a 6.5 means for me.

01:09:16.904 --> 01:09:18.524

Tom: Well, it depends on when you scored it.

01:09:18.604 --> 01:09:19.644

Phil: Well, that's true.

01:09:20.984 --> 01:09:26.064

Phil: But I basically have a 10 point scale that's distributed over 7 and 8.5.

01:09:27.364 --> 01:09:28.824

Phil: And then everything else is a 10.

01:09:31.064 --> 01:09:32.464

Phil: So, but back to...

01:09:33.164 --> 01:09:34.184

Phil: Thank you for the interruption.

01:09:35.184 --> 01:09:53.684

Phil: One of the things I hope you interrupt me on is you've recently got an editorial up there from Christian Prophet to Christian Prophet, and everyone knows what that means, pH to a F, part one, and talking about Jordan B.

01:09:53.704 --> 01:10:02.204

Phil: Peterson's book, Maps of Meaning, I think it's really well written, but more than that, it's interesting.

01:10:02.864 --> 01:10:10.764

Phil: And I've only got about two thirds of the way through it, unfortunately, but do you have anything to say about that?

01:10:12.424 --> 01:10:25.564

Tom: The only thing I would add for keen scientific historians, I would just say that I'm not suggesting that there was some sort of delineation between alchemy and scientific practices.

01:10:25.584 --> 01:10:54.324

Tom: My point is merely that it's partially for that reason, not really possible to make a good argument that alchemy grows into modeling scientific practices, given that simultaneously as the modern chemistry is developing non-alchemical, sorry, as modern chemistry is developing, alchemical chemistry is happening simultaneously.

01:10:56.884 --> 01:11:02.764

Tom: So it doesn't really develop out of it, but is a separate thing occurring at the same time.

01:11:03.304 --> 01:11:18.124

Phil: And you may disagree with me, but I also, you know, my whole thing about chronocentrism, which is a term that I coined, and that is, you know, you're basically seeing things through the lens of your current environment.

01:11:19.264 --> 01:11:20.044

Phil: You know, when...

01:11:20.044 --> 01:11:29.004

Tom: I thought this was about how chronotrigr is meant to be the greatest JRPG, and all other JRPGs must be compared to it.

01:11:29.024 --> 01:11:43.124

Phil: No, far from it, but you know, chronocentrism also would indicate that, you know, at the time where doctors were using leeches to bleed people, that was science, and it was indisputable, and you can't disagree with it.

01:11:43.324 --> 01:11:59.244

Phil: And I think it's arrogant and short-sighted to assume that the current mode of technology across all elements of learning and application, at its peak, or are perfect or are correct.

01:11:59.444 --> 01:12:10.904

Phil: I don't think anyone would think that technology's at its peak, because we've obviously seen a fast evolution of technology, but yeah, I think that applies.

01:12:12.164 --> 01:12:30.004

Phil: In that essay, you were talking about history, and certainly for someone who's spent a lot of their life studying history and reading books about history, I've lost faith in them over the last five years, because ultimately, who are they to say?

01:12:30.024 --> 01:12:39.704

Phil: And you often have a lot of conflict between, there's no such thing as pure history, is I guess what I was saying.

01:12:41.364 --> 01:12:51.524

Phil: But yeah, it's very thought provoking, and even if it doesn't provoke the thoughts that you want, it's thought provoking, because it is good writing, and worthy of a read.

01:12:51.544 --> 01:12:55.064

Phil: So that's the number one story over at gameunder.net right now.

01:12:55.704 --> 01:13:01.124

Phil: Something I hope you do expand upon is your review of Art of Rally.

01:13:02.624 --> 01:13:08.364

Phil: There's a game out that I'm dying to play, which is Hotshot Racing.

01:13:08.644 --> 01:13:10.584

Phil: Are you familiar with Hotshot Racing?

01:13:11.584 --> 01:13:12.204

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:13:12.484 --> 01:13:15.684

Phil: Oh, yeah, so you've seen video of it, or?

01:13:16.344 --> 01:13:17.484

Tom: Yep, it looks pretty good.

01:13:17.984 --> 01:13:26.944

Phil: Yeah, it's something that's come to the fore for me only over the last week, so I haven't even researched if it's available on Switch.

01:13:26.984 --> 01:13:28.604

Phil: I want the cartridge.

01:13:28.624 --> 01:13:34.324

Phil: I don't want to just download it, because it sounds like it's right up my alley.

01:13:36.444 --> 01:13:48.404

Phil: And it has an artistic take on its presentation as it appears that Art of Rally does as well, the game that you reviewed on the site.

01:13:50.504 --> 01:14:03.104

Phil: So, did you just want to give a, I know you've got the review on the site and that's where we're sending people, but did you just want to give that game an endorsement or a beware or say anything really about it?

01:14:04.104 --> 01:14:10.344

Tom: Well, certainly the aesthetic, I think, is on a whole other level to Hotshot Racing.

01:14:10.364 --> 01:14:19.904

Tom: It is, it looks amazing and the nature of rally is really conducive to a great aesthetic.

01:14:19.924 --> 01:14:41.964

Tom: If you, whether you're doing it realistically or in a stylistic manner as it's done in Art of Rally, like in Dirt Rally or any great rally game, much of the experience is in the stages you're going through and the places you're driving through in a way that it isn't in other motorsports.

01:14:41.984 --> 01:14:45.224

Tom: So that is well through the, for the experience.

01:14:45.244 --> 01:15:00.744

Tom: But one humorous coincidence is like lo-fi beats, chill beats to write to, the soundtrack in Art of Rally is also in a similar vein.

01:15:00.764 --> 01:15:09.004

Tom: It is in fact pure vaporwave, which outside of Art of Rally, I would not listen to at all.

01:15:11.804 --> 01:15:28.404

Tom: Like world music, most vaporwave, pretty much all of it with very few exceptions is basically a watered down, soulless generic version of good things, basically.

01:15:28.584 --> 01:15:43.044

Tom: But in Art of Rally with the visual aesthetic and the brilliant engine noises, exhaust notes and tie noises accompanying the soundtrack, it actually works really well.

01:15:43.324 --> 01:15:50.324

Tom: But the thing that is shocking about it is how good the gameplay is.

01:15:51.224 --> 01:16:17.724

Tom: Essentially, rally games since more serious sims started to appear, there have been basically really arcadey ones, or ones with pretty good sim-like, or not on the level of Richburn's Rally, but attempting to be sim-like, but in a non-rally-like setting.

01:16:17.744 --> 01:16:31.184

Tom: For example, the Dirt series, which Dirt 1 as an example and Dirt 3, both have pretty good physics, but the setting is outside of the world of rallying.

01:16:32.404 --> 01:16:36.124

Tom: And motorsport, it's much more of a dude-bro sort of experience.

01:16:36.964 --> 01:17:00.724

Tom: Art of Rally also does something unique in rally in that it is a proper simcade driving experience, where like Gran Turismo, you can do all the proper driving techniques and it will contribute to getting a better time, but obviously it is unbelievably forgiving compared to an actual sim experience.

01:17:00.744 --> 01:17:04.524

Tom: So even if you're not doing that, you can still be perfectly competent in it.

01:17:06.144 --> 01:17:19.464

Tom: So it's a totally unique experience and it does something that arguably the Dirt series has been attempting to do for ages and never succeeded in doing and it does it here brilliantly well.

01:17:20.064 --> 01:17:28.024

Tom: And it, like a proper sim-cade experience, has elements of playing a sim game that work really well.

01:17:28.044 --> 01:17:32.444

Tom: And it's amazing that it does all of this in a third-person perspective.

01:17:32.864 --> 01:17:48.344

Tom: And the best example of this is when you're playing something like Dirt Rally and you are actually doing well in a course that you either know well or you're reading the calls really well.

01:17:48.864 --> 01:18:02.404

Tom: You get the sort of feeling that you are never actually turning and the entire course is just a straight line because you are perfectly oriented into and through and out of each corner.

01:18:03.504 --> 01:18:20.844

Tom: In Art of Rally, there are moments where you get the same sensation, even though it is in the third person, which is just amazing that you can have that in a third person rally game and one that is not a proper sim experience.

01:18:22.564 --> 01:18:24.564

Phil: The name of the game is Art of Rally.

01:18:25.504 --> 01:18:27.544

Phil: It's out only for PC and Mac.

01:18:28.544 --> 01:18:32.864

Phil: And both Art of Rally and Hotshot Racing are not available as physical.

01:18:34.584 --> 01:18:35.524

Phil: So that's a shame.

01:18:35.544 --> 01:18:37.104

Phil: I'm going to have to wait for that one.

01:18:37.124 --> 01:18:41.564

Phil: Do you know much about the developer, FundSelector?

01:18:42.564 --> 01:18:58.124

Tom: Yep, they also made Absolute Drift, which again has a surprisingly deep driving model and really plays into the aesthetic qualities of drifting, just as this does in Rally.

01:18:59.744 --> 01:19:10.924

Tom: Art of Drift is a minimalist sort of aesthetic, so Art of Rally is actually in stark contrast, but even better aesthetically.

01:19:11.244 --> 01:19:23.704

Phil: I know that the game's audio also received high marks, capturing the hisses and wheezes of classic rally cars, so you'd agree with that?

01:19:23.724 --> 01:19:26.744

Tom: Yep, I mentioned it in brief earlier.

01:19:28.364 --> 01:19:32.844

Phil: Yeah, so the reviews are up on the site, gameunder.net, Art of Rally.

01:19:34.024 --> 01:19:47.764

Phil: Would someone who likes myself, I'm talking about because I only care about myself, would someone like me be who likes rally games and also likes Gran Turismo on the sim side as well?

01:19:48.324 --> 01:19:51.844

Phil: I've never really gotten into the rally games for no real reason.

01:19:53.424 --> 01:19:56.324

Phil: You know, I got the Colin McRae games back in the day.

01:19:56.764 --> 01:19:59.144

Phil: I didn't like it when I got the first Dirt.

01:19:59.164 --> 01:20:02.404

Phil: They're now up to Dirt 5, which is out for the new consoles.

01:20:03.344 --> 01:20:06.404

Phil: Do you think I have anything to do with this game?

01:20:07.064 --> 01:20:10.824

Tom: Dirt 5, by the way, you may be interested in checking out.

01:20:10.844 --> 01:20:15.244

Tom: It's made, I believe, by the MotorStorm developers.

01:20:15.524 --> 01:20:16.024

Phil: Oh, okay.

01:20:16.824 --> 01:20:17.404

Phil: Yeah, all right.

01:20:21.244 --> 01:20:22.744

Tom: But I think there's a demo of it.

01:20:22.804 --> 01:20:23.824

Phil: It's a Kodi game.

01:20:23.844 --> 01:20:24.924

Phil: It's Codemasters.

01:20:25.524 --> 01:20:28.904

Tom: Dirt 5, yeah, but they picked up some of the devs from MotorStorm.

01:20:30.624 --> 01:20:32.704

Tom: But Art of Rally has a demo.

01:20:32.724 --> 01:21:12.204

Tom: I think even if you're not into rally games necessarily, it is worth checking out because due to the completely different perspective, it's a lot easier to get into than rally games usually are because one thing that, I don't know if it applies to you, but would put a lot of people off rally games who wouldn't be, who would be more accepting of other styles of racing is the fact that you have to basically take every single corner as a new thing with no further warning than the co-driver.

01:21:12.224 --> 01:21:16.304

Tom: So it's a very different experience to other styles of racing.

01:21:17.164 --> 01:21:23.644

Tom: In Art of Rally, there is no co-driver and due to the perspective, you can see usually several corners ahead of you.

01:21:23.664 --> 01:21:28.004

Tom: So it may be a easier experience to get into.

01:21:28.484 --> 01:21:50.104

Phil: We should say also if you go to gameunder.net and put in hardcore as the search term, we'll find that we named Richard Burns Rally, a 2004 game for the PlayStation 2 era, our number 4 game out of 10 in terms of games for hardcore gamers.

01:21:50.124 --> 01:21:50.904

Tom: We did indeed.

01:21:51.104 --> 01:21:54.804

Phil: That was one of your selections.

01:21:54.824 --> 01:21:56.884

Phil: You obviously have very fond memories of that.

01:21:57.944 --> 01:22:02.224

Tom: Yes, fond memories of failing to get force feedback to work in it.

01:22:03.904 --> 01:22:09.404

Phil: In our top 10, it was beat out by Sneak King, which was our number 3 selection.

01:22:10.304 --> 01:22:13.224

Phil: Did you have much to do with that selection?

01:22:15.084 --> 01:22:16.024

Tom: I'm not sure.

01:22:16.044 --> 01:22:19.084

Tom: I think that was all you.

01:22:19.164 --> 01:22:20.144

Phil: Yeah, probably.

01:22:20.164 --> 01:22:23.264

Phil: But I think that was actually a pretty funny review, actually.

01:22:23.284 --> 01:22:25.104

Phil: It was, you know, it's a two paragraph.

01:22:25.124 --> 01:22:26.184

Phil: It's not really a review.

01:22:27.184 --> 01:22:29.684

Tom: I don't think I wrote anything for that.

01:22:29.784 --> 01:22:37.344

Phil: Well, we've got to remind our listeners that in October of last year, we put together the top 10 games for hardcore gamers.

01:22:37.604 --> 01:22:40.164

Phil: And it's an entertaining read.

01:22:40.184 --> 01:22:50.824

Phil: If you go over to gameunder.net and just type in hardcore, you'll be disappointed to find that the only thing on there is our top 10 games for hardcore gamers.

01:22:51.524 --> 01:22:52.784

Phil: Well, thank you for that.

01:22:52.824 --> 01:22:54.624

Phil: And yeah, that does make me interested.

01:22:54.644 --> 01:23:03.324

Phil: I'm happy to see the aesthetic of these games like Hotshot Racing and Art of Rally.

01:23:03.904 --> 01:23:13.004

Phil: I'm enjoying the developers feeling the freedom to step outside of the photorealism for these driving games.

01:23:13.504 --> 01:23:29.124

Tom: I think we mentioned this in the last episode that, for instance, even PlayStation graphics are being made use of in horror games to great effect, as an example, in itch.io games and that sort of sphere.

01:23:29.584 --> 01:23:34.544

Tom: And that, I think, actually reminds us of a game we've both played, which is Perfect Vermin.

01:23:35.124 --> 01:23:35.584

Phil: Ah, yes.

01:23:36.164 --> 01:23:46.224

Phil: But I'm going to ruin your segue, much as you always ruin mine, by bringing up Teardown, which is in Alpha, I think, or early release.

01:23:46.244 --> 01:23:47.404

Tom: I think it just got released.

01:23:47.804 --> 01:23:49.004

Phil: I don't think it's out yet.

01:23:50.124 --> 01:24:03.764

Phil: But anyway, Teardown uses voxels and has a Minecrafty kind of thing, but it used voxels to great effect because they're great for physics, which is a game that I'm really interested in getting once it's in final release.

01:24:03.784 --> 01:24:04.564

Tom: Teardown?

01:24:04.664 --> 01:24:05.844

Phil: Yeah, Teardown, one word.

01:24:05.864 --> 01:24:06.104

Tom: Yes.

01:24:07.544 --> 01:24:09.484

Phil: It's available on Steam right now.

01:24:09.844 --> 01:24:13.104

Phil: It's been getting a lot of props.

01:24:13.124 --> 01:24:14.324

Tom: It has ray tracing.

01:24:14.824 --> 01:24:15.764

Phil: It does it, really?

01:24:16.824 --> 01:24:18.584

Phil: So you're very interested in it, I'm sure.

01:24:19.184 --> 01:24:19.704

Tom: For sure.

01:24:19.784 --> 01:24:26.344

Tom: And be warned if you do not have an Nvidia video card, you don't need to have a ray tracing one.

01:24:26.704 --> 01:24:34.044

Tom: But if you do not have an Nvidia video card of any sort, it currently runs horrendously.

01:24:34.764 --> 01:24:41.824

Tom: It was made on an Nvidia card and is currently only optimised for Nvidia cards.

01:24:41.844 --> 01:24:45.164

Tom: So be careful if you want to buy it.

01:24:45.444 --> 01:24:46.344

Tom: Bear that in mind.

01:24:46.364 --> 01:24:55.964

Tom: They do plan to optimise it for AMD cards though, but at this stage it is nigh on unplayable, depending on what settings you're using.

01:24:55.984 --> 01:24:58.144

Phil: And that's even if you don't want ray tracing turned on?

01:24:58.784 --> 01:24:59.264

Tom: Correct.

01:24:59.344 --> 01:24:59.764

Phil: Okay.

01:25:00.664 --> 01:25:02.644

Phil: Okay, now, sorry, back to your...

01:25:02.664 --> 01:25:05.524

Phil: That's actually very good, because I haven't heard that anywhere else.

01:25:05.984 --> 01:25:08.824

Phil: So that's really good input.

01:25:08.844 --> 01:25:17.184

Phil: Now, on itch.io, there is a game that you asked me to play called Perfect Vermin, and I did play it.

01:25:19.904 --> 01:25:20.684

Phil: So thank you very much.

01:25:23.664 --> 01:25:24.324

Tom: You're welcome.

01:25:24.344 --> 01:25:25.784

Phil: Yeah, it's a very short game.

01:25:26.744 --> 01:25:27.344

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:25:27.364 --> 01:25:29.024

Tom: Did you actually get to the ending?

01:25:29.684 --> 01:25:31.824

Phil: Yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course.

01:25:32.404 --> 01:25:35.104

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it's a very easy game.

01:25:36.684 --> 01:25:47.564

Phil: I found it strangely provocative on the same level that when I first played Doom back in the day, you're kind of like, is this right?

01:25:47.964 --> 01:25:55.444

Phil: You know, am I, is this, should I be feeling this good about playing this, or does this mean that I'm a sick person?

01:25:55.464 --> 01:26:27.344

Tom: Well, it is a fascinating sensual experience because essentially the game consists of you looking for duplicate doppelganger creatures who are imitating furniture essentially, and when you hit them, they groan very expressively and meat flies everywhere with some very chunky sound effects, and it is very satisfying.

01:26:28.204 --> 01:26:29.904

Tom: The whole thing is very tactile.

01:26:29.924 --> 01:26:32.204

Phil: Let me just say this before we get any further.

01:26:32.224 --> 01:26:41.744

Phil: The name of the game is Perfect Vermin, and it's free on Steam, and it's free on itch.io.

01:26:43.224 --> 01:26:52.084

Phil: It's developed by Marcio Bob Meir and Angad Martharu, and it's published by them as well.

01:26:52.104 --> 01:27:00.864

Phil: It came out on Steam on the 7th of November, and it's got mostly positive reviews.

01:27:00.884 --> 01:27:05.884

Tom: They have actually made a few former notable indications of notable indie games as well.

01:27:07.284 --> 01:27:13.024

Tom: I can't remember the names, but one of them you play as some sort of human-headed fish, I believe.

01:27:13.304 --> 01:27:13.864

Phil: Seaman.

01:27:13.984 --> 01:27:15.924

Phil: That was a game actually on Dreamcast.

01:27:16.484 --> 01:27:18.304

Phil: I did not know they developed that.

01:27:18.804 --> 01:27:23.544

Phil: And that game starred Leonard Nimoy, and it was an early form of AI.

01:27:23.564 --> 01:27:28.364

Phil: It used the Dreamcast microphone because you could actually interact with them.

01:27:28.424 --> 01:27:29.924

Phil: So they made that game as well.

01:27:29.944 --> 01:27:30.644

Phil: That's incredible.

01:27:32.644 --> 01:27:46.784

Phil: So, in Perfect Vermin, it looks like the Steam version is a lot less pixelated because my memory of playing the itch.io version was that basically it did look like PlayStation-level graphics.

01:27:46.844 --> 01:27:47.164

Phil: Is that...

01:27:47.324 --> 01:27:49.844

Phil: Am I wrong or am I misremembering?

01:27:51.064 --> 01:27:56.244

Tom: I think there was a filter option that possibly altered that.

01:27:56.384 --> 01:28:09.964

Phil: Okay, well, it's a first-person action game where you are walking around a generic-looking modern office at night in a high-rise with a sledgehammer.

01:28:10.844 --> 01:28:14.644

Phil: And it has a lot of very...

01:28:15.324 --> 01:28:17.384

Phil: You know, everything's destructible.

01:28:17.904 --> 01:28:22.264

Phil: So, like in Tear Down, you go up and you can smash things and they'll break.

01:28:24.624 --> 01:28:29.304

Phil: And I think the tagline for the game is it's not murder if they're vermin.

01:28:29.984 --> 01:28:30.384

Tom: Yes.

01:28:30.624 --> 01:28:32.884

Phil: Okay, which is disturbing.

01:28:35.144 --> 01:28:37.904

Phil: I thought this game had a...

01:28:38.844 --> 01:28:50.844

Phil: The thing that I found about the game to be troubling was that tagline and also the manner in which you discover the things that you're supposed to kill in the game.

01:28:52.704 --> 01:28:53.064

Tom: I think...

01:28:53.264 --> 01:29:07.044

Tom: And I think going into the tagline is the subplot that seems to be describing the lead up to a mass shooting or something of that effect.

01:29:08.284 --> 01:29:08.804

Phil: Yes.

01:29:09.484 --> 01:29:11.464

Phil: Or a degree of racism.

01:29:12.204 --> 01:29:19.504

Phil: Or, you know, if you can regard your enemy as vermin, then it's not murder, you know.

01:29:20.164 --> 01:29:23.624

Phil: Now, do you want to help me describe how...

01:29:24.444 --> 01:29:26.304

Tom: That's what's fascinating about it.

01:29:26.424 --> 01:29:35.764

Tom: It's essentially using the rhetoric of violence, but it's not entirely clear whether that is directed at you.

01:29:35.804 --> 01:29:36.464

Tom: I mean, sorry.

01:29:36.684 --> 01:29:42.624

Tom: It's simultaneously directed at you, encouraging you to find these doppelgangers.

01:29:42.984 --> 01:29:43.304

Phil: Yeah.

01:29:43.804 --> 01:29:49.964

Tom: To stop an upcoming event of potential violence or something.

01:29:50.204 --> 01:29:59.964

Tom: So it's actually a surprisingly complex and interesting and accurate use of that sort of rhetoric.

01:29:59.984 --> 01:30:08.464

Tom: It does not just stop at the dehumanisation, but puts it in the context in which it is used usually.

01:30:08.744 --> 01:30:12.704

Phil: The description on Steam is, The task is simple, exterminate all vermin.

01:30:12.784 --> 01:30:21.264

Phil: The sledgehammer you have has been provided and it is capable of destroying almost all office appliances and furniture that may be uncooperative.

01:30:21.844 --> 01:30:23.724

Phil: Your time is running out.

01:30:24.564 --> 01:30:27.064

Phil: So you're supposed to do this as fast as possible.

01:30:27.084 --> 01:30:28.004

Phil: You've got a sledgehammer.

01:30:28.024 --> 01:30:33.404

Phil: You're running through this low pixel office with a sledgehammer that can destroy anything.

01:30:33.424 --> 01:30:35.244

Phil: But destroying the furniture is not the goal.

01:30:35.484 --> 01:30:39.524

Phil: You've got to find the furniture that is not where it's supposed to be.

01:30:39.984 --> 01:30:41.324

Phil: So I'm not going to spoil it.

01:30:41.344 --> 01:30:42.764

Phil: I'm going to make up something here, okay?

01:30:43.044 --> 01:30:50.764

Phil: So if you were to find a refrigerator in the cleaner's cupboard, then that's the one you're supposed to kill.

01:30:50.804 --> 01:31:02.764

Phil: And when you hit it with a sledgehammer, instead of just smashing up the refrigerator that's in the break room, it actually has blood and organs and they'll spill out on the ground.

01:31:04.224 --> 01:31:12.924

Phil: And you've got to identify the vermin as quickly as possible as you go through this office space.

01:31:13.484 --> 01:31:19.884

Phil: And they give you, you know, you finish it and then they say, okay, that was good, now do it in 68 seconds.

01:31:19.904 --> 01:31:21.764

Phil: Now that was good, now do it in 30 seconds.

01:31:21.784 --> 01:31:22.864

Phil: So they're speed running it.

01:31:23.944 --> 01:31:28.244

Phil: And unless I'm misremembering it, they move them around, is that right?

01:31:28.784 --> 01:31:34.384

Tom: Correct, there are several levels each with different placements of furniture.

01:31:34.764 --> 01:31:39.524

Phil: And in interspersing your runs, they have a guy come on that looks like a news anchor.

01:31:39.544 --> 01:31:43.704

Phil: He's kind of like the, I'd buy that for a dollar guy from the old Robocop movie.

01:31:45.664 --> 01:31:55.304

Phil: And that's the part that was disturbing because basically, what you have to identify are the things that are acting differently from the other things.

01:31:56.064 --> 01:32:09.664

Phil: And that's the subversive component of the game, because of course, in a society, you don't want the people who are doing things different to be the ones that are the ones that it's okay to kill.

01:32:09.684 --> 01:32:12.424

Tom: I think that's what you do want in a society.

01:32:12.444 --> 01:32:14.984

Phil: Well, that is not what I want in society.

01:32:15.004 --> 01:32:22.064

Phil: And that's certainly what happens in our society, you know, being pulled over for being black while driving.

01:32:24.584 --> 01:32:26.504

Tom: And that's the definition of a society.

01:32:26.524 --> 01:32:28.104

Phil: Yeah, that's the creepy part of the game.

01:32:30.304 --> 01:32:35.444

Phil: Because otherwise, there's no people in this game, don't get me wrong, there's no people, there's no rats, there's no birds.

01:32:35.784 --> 01:32:44.504

Phil: You're just going around killing office furniture like refrigerators, toilets, microwave ovens, things of that nature, office chairs.

01:32:44.984 --> 01:32:50.524

Phil: You know, you might come into an office and go, that office chair doesn't look like it belongs here.

01:32:51.064 --> 01:32:55.684

Phil: And then you go and kill it with a sledgehammer, and that was the vermin.

01:32:56.424 --> 01:33:15.324

Tom: And meanwhile, the commentary on your actions and the backstory of what's going on is presented through a news presenter who is progressively growing more and more tumors as the game goes along.

01:33:16.764 --> 01:33:20.244

Tom: And it ends, we're going to spoil this.

01:33:20.844 --> 01:33:46.884

Tom: Spoiler alert, but it ends essentially with you in a doctor's office, and many people's interpretation of it is what you were doing was going around destroying cancerous growths, but you could not successfully destroy them all, and thus the cancerous newscaster dies at the end.

01:33:47.864 --> 01:33:55.024

Tom: So that's basically the basic plot, and that's the simple interpretation of it.

01:33:55.404 --> 01:34:11.444

Tom: But given the violent rhetoric throughout it, could it not in fact be interpreted as a commentary on the progressively sensationalist direction of mass media itself?

01:34:12.564 --> 01:34:15.704

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's a tremendously subversive game.

01:34:15.764 --> 01:34:16.844

Phil: It's very punk.

01:34:16.984 --> 01:34:17.484

Phil: I love it.

01:34:19.324 --> 01:34:22.424

Phil: I do want to point out one thing, much as you were talking about Art of Rally.

01:34:24.384 --> 01:34:33.304

Phil: Technically, I do want everyone to know that Perfect Vermin is not compatible with older Intel laptops, and it will encounter constant issues.

01:34:34.384 --> 01:34:42.664

Phil: That's something that the developer wanted to bring up, because obviously this is a big issue for people who wish to play the game on all...

01:34:42.684 --> 01:34:43.424

Tom: That is a shame.

01:34:43.584 --> 01:34:47.964

Phil: It is a tremendous shame, but it's probably still good on your 486.

01:34:48.084 --> 01:34:50.624

Phil: I thank you again for introducing me to this game.

01:34:51.364 --> 01:34:53.784

Phil: As I said, it's a deeply subversive game.

01:34:55.764 --> 01:35:00.124

Phil: I'm pretty sure that if I met the developers, I'd love to talk to them and share a beer with them.

01:35:00.404 --> 01:35:03.844

Phil: I'm pretty sure that they would not want to hang out with a narc like me.

01:35:06.144 --> 01:35:11.204

Tom: I know that immediately after that, you'd be texting the dude with the sledgehammer.

01:35:11.304 --> 01:35:11.664

Phil: Yeah.

01:35:12.784 --> 01:35:14.304

Phil: No, a great game, great game.

01:35:14.324 --> 01:35:18.604

Phil: Again, in itch.io, they have a lot of games on there that you can play for free.

01:35:18.624 --> 01:35:19.984

Phil: You didn't have to get in on the sale.

01:35:20.004 --> 01:35:28.424

Tom: You did not have to get the greatest thing to happen, arguably to Western culture ever, let alone game.

01:35:28.444 --> 01:35:31.644

Phil: I'm going to use a term that's probably only familiar to Australians.

01:35:31.664 --> 01:35:33.624

Phil: I'm going to say it was the sale of the century.

01:35:35.144 --> 01:35:35.984

Phil: Remember that show?

01:35:36.644 --> 01:35:37.344

Tom: Yes, I do.

01:35:37.364 --> 01:35:37.744

Phil: Lovely.

01:35:37.764 --> 01:35:39.004

Tom: And it absolutely was.

01:35:39.024 --> 01:35:40.184

Phil: It was the sale of the century.

01:35:40.304 --> 01:35:49.804

Tom: The last thing I'll say about Perfect Vermin is another thing a lot of people have compared it to is David Cronenberg.

01:35:49.824 --> 01:36:22.484

Tom: The similarities are obviously there, as you can tell from our impressions, but I would argue that this is actually a more fascinating and unsettling experience than David Cronenberg because due to the medium and also the smaller scale of the project, it is significantly more lyrical and does not get bogged down in a pulpy plot and idiotic characters.

01:36:24.244 --> 01:36:24.964

Phil: And it's fun.

01:36:27.684 --> 01:36:28.824

Tom: Cronenberg films are fun.

01:36:30.104 --> 01:36:30.504

Phil: All right.

01:36:31.044 --> 01:36:34.544

Phil: Well, with that, I think we can pretty much close out the show.

01:36:34.564 --> 01:36:37.784

Phil: And this is something that you want to bring to my attention.

01:36:38.124 --> 01:36:42.184

Tom: Well, Crono just reminded me of Cronocity.

01:36:42.904 --> 01:36:51.244

Tom: And in a show a few episodes ago, we mentioned The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker.

01:36:53.064 --> 01:36:59.284

Tom: And I have actually now read The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker.

01:36:59.944 --> 01:37:06.304

Tom: And in a year in which I've read, I think, 356.

01:37:06.704 --> 01:37:07.744

Phil: I thought you had given up on reading.

01:37:07.764 --> 01:37:08.344

Tom: I might be up to now.

01:37:08.404 --> 01:37:09.304

Phil: I thought you were giving up.

01:37:09.404 --> 01:37:09.684

Phil: No?

01:37:10.664 --> 01:37:13.704

Tom: I have to continue until the end of the year, unfortunately.

01:37:14.384 --> 01:37:16.004

Tom: After reading that, I wish I could.

01:37:16.324 --> 01:37:20.584

Tom: So you wouldn't want to end on reading The Better Angels of Our Nature, actually.

01:37:20.984 --> 01:37:26.064

Tom: But you mentioned Chronocity, and this would be a great example of that.

01:37:27.344 --> 01:37:31.864

Tom: This was literally the worst book I have ever read in my life.

01:37:32.404 --> 01:37:56.924

Tom: And bear in mind, the central thesis of the book is one which I previously agreed with until I read the book, which was basically that violence has reduced over the past several centuries, and obviously, since the Second World War, that has been one of the most peaceful times in human history.

01:37:57.844 --> 01:38:06.524

Tom: After reading that book, I realized that this assumption, this idea that I had, was not really based on very much evidence, based on the book.

01:38:06.884 --> 01:38:09.504

Tom: This is mind boggling.

01:38:09.604 --> 01:38:17.184

Tom: I have never read a book like this, and I have read Mein Kampf.

01:38:17.624 --> 01:38:24.044

Tom: Mein Kampf is more scholarly effective than the Better Angels of Our Nature.

01:38:25.344 --> 01:38:39.504

Tom: The use of evidence, if you have any basic knowledge of any field that is referenced, is the most idiotic cherry-picking you can come up with.

01:38:39.584 --> 01:38:54.624

Tom: Unlike a book like 12 Rules for Life by Jordan Peterson, it doesn't misrepresent any of the evidence it uses, but it totally ignores and disregards evidence that is contrary to its viewpoint.

01:38:55.244 --> 01:39:04.144

Tom: And more insane than that is the type of evidence that it uses, and the total inconsistency with which it uses evidence.

01:39:04.164 --> 01:39:18.784

Tom: So at one point, he'll be talking about how violence was under-represented in the past due to poor record-keeping and bad statistics, and violence being so commonplace and everyday that no one really commented on it.

01:39:20.004 --> 01:39:29.144

Tom: The next minute, he'll be commenting on how violent art was from the past, and how this demonstrated how violent societies were.

01:39:29.324 --> 01:39:43.464

Tom: And if you apply this sort of thinking, you would conclude that Japan, as an example, was perhaps the most violent place on earth today, if you're basing it on the artwork that a place produces.

01:39:43.944 --> 01:39:59.804

Tom: And so essentially, he's rightly presenting that art is an idiotic vector for analyzing the violence of a society when it disagrees with his premise that whichever society today or the past is violent or isn't.

01:39:59.984 --> 01:40:06.504

Tom: Then in the next moment, he'll use literally identically the same thing to actually justify a point.

01:40:08.784 --> 01:40:21.544

Tom: Elsewhere, he is using simultaneously the Hobbesian political theory and the democratic peace theory, as if those two ideas are somehow compatible.

01:40:24.464 --> 01:40:31.084

Tom: Elsewhere, he will, and again, this other thing doesn't apply solely to him.

01:40:31.084 --> 01:40:47.424

Tom: It is a totally bizarre thing throughout all liberal history, but he highlights liberalism as contributing massively to things like the reduction in violence to children.

01:40:48.004 --> 01:41:07.844

Tom: And while he can reference some stuff about child rearing in the 1700s, such as Rousseau and so forth, even he has to go to the anti-enlightenment romantics to get anything like the modern conception of how children should be treated.

01:41:08.164 --> 01:41:32.984

Tom: And he kind of brushes over how liberal theory contributed to when the massive decrease in violence to children, as far as we can objectively measure it occurred, which was again after the Second World War, and beating your children started to become taboo as the fact that this actually caused serious injuries to your children began to become known.

01:41:33.924 --> 01:41:40.224

Tom: So it is just totally nonsensical from beginning to end.

01:41:40.564 --> 01:42:03.844

Tom: And again, I went into it with the same general thesis, not necessarily the same reasons for believing that to be true, but the evidence that he could muster up for it legitimately now makes me question whether I should believe that violence has reduced over the years because of how bad his evidence for it is.

01:42:04.004 --> 01:42:05.364

Tom: It's just unbelievable.

01:42:05.564 --> 01:42:35.144

Tom: And the other funny thing about it is, and this again isn't related to him, this is a standard intellectual failing of many people, and I don't suggest that I do not suffer from this at times either necessarily, but one of the wonderful things you can look out for when you're reading books by idiots like this is they will attack their enemies and then immediately after finishing attacking them, immediately do the same thing.

01:42:35.164 --> 01:43:02.984

Tom: So one great example of this was the nauseatingly disgusting description of Vietnam which followed on from a long treatise on how the rhetoric of revenge and self-pity and exaggerating the evil of the enemy while excusing your own evil as being caused by them encourages violence.

01:43:04.004 --> 01:43:05.244

Tom: That's all perfectly reasonable.

01:43:05.484 --> 01:43:29.484

Tom: He ends his Vietnam section with the statement that ultimately the Vietnamese were to blame because Ho Chi Minh stated that the Americans could never win because for every 10 Vietnamese people killed, one American would be killed, and eventually there will be no more Americans who would be able to be sent to Vietnam to be killed.

01:43:30.064 --> 01:43:44.104

Tom: So he ended this with pointing out that this attitude of being willing to defend yourself to that level when you're being attacked is why Vietnam was such a disaster.

01:43:44.464 --> 01:43:52.744

Tom: If Ho Chi Minh had only surrendered earlier, then several million Vietnamese people would not have been killed by the Americans.

01:43:53.024 --> 01:44:04.184

Phil: The guy's an idiot, and what's most disappointing about this is that Bill Gates considers this book, to quote Wikipedia, one of the most important books he's ever read when he was on Desert Island Discs.

01:44:05.344 --> 01:44:07.824

Phil: I've lost a lot of respect for Bill Gates over the years.

01:44:08.124 --> 01:44:09.524

Phil: I never really had that much respect.

01:44:09.544 --> 01:44:10.984

Phil: I think he's an idiot as well.

01:44:11.364 --> 01:44:14.484

Phil: But this dude does read a lot of books, and if he thinks this is the best book ever...

01:44:14.504 --> 01:44:16.724

Tom: I think he's certainly an idiot if he said that.

01:44:17.204 --> 01:44:20.504

Phil: He's an idiot, and this guy that wrote it is an idiot also.

01:44:20.524 --> 01:44:30.584

Phil: I'm sorry that you wasted your time reading this stupid book because he's such a trivial moron that he gets into forum wars with people that criticize his book.

01:44:32.244 --> 01:44:40.364

Phil: He got into this forum war with a writer from The New Yorker who criticized his book, and they went back and forth like six times.

01:44:40.444 --> 01:44:48.244

Phil: It's like, dude, you know, because of Bill Gates, it became a New York Times bestseller, as New York Times distinct from The New Yorker.

01:44:48.864 --> 01:44:50.444

Phil: Why do you care what The New Yorker says?

01:44:50.684 --> 01:44:58.664

Phil: If The New Yorker gave this video game podcast a negative review, I'd love it.

01:44:59.524 --> 01:45:00.504

Phil: I wouldn't get into it.

01:45:00.524 --> 01:45:02.624

Tom: Particularly given that it will be coming from The New Yorker.

01:45:02.824 --> 01:45:48.164

Phil: Oh, and I think that was it The New Yorker that listened to the giant bomb podcast or something, and they gave it a review because one of the critics over there, his son was listening to this podcast, like, dad, you got to listen to this, and they actually quoted Ryan MacDonald and Jeff Gershman when they were talking about how when you're using the knife in Condemned, and you can kind of just jab it into their neck and go, uh, uh, uh, you know, and so when Jeff Gershman is reading back what he actually said in a New Yorker article, it just comes off like the sickest fox that ever existed because they're talking about kill times, you know, time to kill.

01:45:48.624 --> 01:45:50.564

Phil: I mean, this is something that comes up in podcasts.

01:45:50.644 --> 01:45:53.444

Phil: Uh, well, I think the time to kill is a little bit off.

01:45:54.044 --> 01:45:58.624

Phil: And I've got to say, like, I've been listening to video game stuff for a long time.

01:45:59.324 --> 01:46:07.204

Phil: I don't think there's a single thing on this planet that is more dissected than video games on the Internet.

01:46:07.604 --> 01:46:14.144

Phil: Like, PlayStation does or doesn't release a press release about this, that or the other, and we're guilty of it ourselves.

01:46:14.164 --> 01:46:18.664

Phil: We're talking about, oh, why do you think they're not promoting the haptic feedback in the controllers?

01:46:18.964 --> 01:46:20.344

Phil: You know, we're guilty of it too.

01:46:20.764 --> 01:46:22.464

Phil: It's like, shah!

01:46:23.104 --> 01:46:24.544

Phil: It's video games!

01:46:25.564 --> 01:46:35.884

Phil: Anyway, I am really sorry that you read this stupid book by Steven Pinker, The Better Angels of Our Nature, Why Violence Has Declined, because it seems like a complete waste of your time.

01:46:36.184 --> 01:46:39.304

Phil: 832 pages, no less, released in 20...

01:46:39.324 --> 01:46:47.184

Tom: Well, when I finished it, I had the same sort of feeling you get of awe when you finish a great book.

01:46:48.164 --> 01:46:49.784

Tom: But it was awe, um...

01:46:51.024 --> 01:46:53.744

Tom: At how the fuck someone could be so stupid.

01:46:53.764 --> 01:46:54.224

Tom: And this...

01:46:55.404 --> 01:46:59.384

Tom: I don't even understand how something like this gets published, because presumably...

01:47:01.404 --> 01:47:03.684

Tom: There's an editor saying that this...

01:47:05.404 --> 01:47:06.224

Tom: I mean, it's a...

01:47:06.444 --> 01:47:08.864

Tom: At least pseudo-academic book.

01:47:09.544 --> 01:47:19.764

Tom: Surely there's an editor pointing out basic contradictions and how insane the evidence is that is being used.

01:47:20.564 --> 01:47:21.624

Phil: Well, Nietzsche...

01:47:21.644 --> 01:47:22.304

Phil: And I've got to say...

01:47:22.324 --> 01:47:22.844

Tom: Surely.

01:47:23.484 --> 01:47:25.064

Phil: One of the things he's criticised for...

01:47:25.504 --> 01:47:31.564

Phil: And I talk about chronocentrism, but Nietzsche actually fully developed the concept of perspectivism.

01:47:31.984 --> 01:47:32.804

Phil: I mean, have you...

01:47:33.204 --> 01:47:35.444

Phil: And that's basically what chronocentrism is.

01:47:35.464 --> 01:47:38.664

Phil: I think my expression for it is better, because it basically means...

01:47:38.884 --> 01:47:43.004

Tom: Well, no wonder you're anti-Steven Pinker if you're a postmodern Nietzsche.

01:47:43.764 --> 01:47:47.704

Tom: Well, you're just not smart enough to be a liberal.

01:47:47.724 --> 01:47:52.324

Tom: You do not have the brain structure, the superior liberal brain structure.

01:47:52.344 --> 01:47:52.844

Tom: I'm sorry.

01:47:54.944 --> 01:47:58.204

Phil: But like, I mean, this is the ultimate perspectivism.

01:47:58.464 --> 01:47:59.524

Phil: You know, this is.

01:47:59.544 --> 01:48:04.084

Phil: Oh, hey guys, we're not as violent as we used to be, you know.

01:48:04.104 --> 01:48:06.244

Phil: Have a look at these cave paintings.

01:48:06.244 --> 01:48:07.584

Phil: I mean, that's pretty violent.

01:48:07.864 --> 01:48:09.484

Phil: Okay, you know what?

01:48:09.504 --> 01:48:17.044

Phil: 45 minutes from their house, there's an abattoir that kills a cow every 36 seconds, 24 hours a day.

01:48:17.064 --> 01:48:17.724

Tom: Don't worry.

01:48:17.744 --> 01:48:19.004

Tom: No, no.

01:48:19.024 --> 01:48:19.804

Tom: Don't worry.

01:48:20.124 --> 01:48:23.904

Tom: He gets to animal cruelty and factory farming.

01:48:24.004 --> 01:48:52.804

Tom: And he points out that this is, in spite of factory farming and mass extinctions, on a scale not seen since the advent of homo sapiens, we are in the least cruel time in history to animals because, and we certainly are in terms of pets, but because even though factory farming exists, it's centuries old, which is a totally false statement.

01:48:53.064 --> 01:49:06.824

Tom: There's two eras that led to modern factory farming, and they're both in the 20th century, two major periods of innovation, I mean, and they're both in the 20th century, so that statement is just simply factually incorrect.

01:49:07.484 --> 01:49:21.144

Tom: And in spite of the incomprehensible to anything previously seen scale of factory farming, a very small percentage of the population are vegetarians, and vegetarians are very cool.

01:49:24.044 --> 01:49:25.304

Tom: That's a literal argument.

01:49:25.524 --> 01:49:28.604

Phil: And look, I'm not arguing that factory farming is cruel.

01:49:30.704 --> 01:49:32.404

Phil: I think that people need to get a grasp.

01:49:32.424 --> 01:49:33.544

Tom: It's certainly violent.

01:49:33.624 --> 01:49:34.404

Phil: But it's violent.

01:49:34.424 --> 01:49:39.564

Tom: His argument is that violence against animals is a historical law.

01:49:39.684 --> 01:49:42.584

Phil: And I don't think that abattoirs are cruel, okay?

01:49:42.604 --> 01:49:46.744

Phil: I'm just going to say that, but it is an act of violence, right?

01:49:46.824 --> 01:49:48.664

Phil: But that's just stupidity.

01:49:48.724 --> 01:49:53.344

Phil: Anyway, let's end the show so we can talk about some other stuff that I wouldn't want to put on the air.

01:49:53.844 --> 01:49:56.924

Phil: Thank you very much for listening to the episode.

01:49:57.444 --> 01:50:09.004

Tom: Reading stuff like this has given me a new found respect for the previous intellectual battered wife of the show, Ayn Rand.

01:50:09.864 --> 01:50:37.944

Tom: When you realize that this book is considered a profound statement and a serious work of academia that tells us new things we didn't know about how amazing we were, it makes you think that Ayn Rand's reputation in America as being a genuine philosopher is perhaps not so bad, and maybe we were a little harsh on her.

01:50:38.004 --> 01:50:38.704

Phil: I agree with that.

01:50:38.824 --> 01:50:39.964

Phil: I totally agree with that.

01:50:40.024 --> 01:50:44.704

Phil: Well, thank you everyone for listening to Episode 131 of The Game Under Podcast.

01:50:44.944 --> 01:50:48.684

Phil: I've been your co-host, and my name is Phil Fogg, and his name is...

01:50:49.564 --> 01:50:50.244

Tom: Tom Towers.

01:50:50.264 --> 01:50:50.644

Phil: Goodbye.

Game Under Podcast 130

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:20 ASMR Segment

Tom Towers REACTS... the the news.
0:03:25 Nvideo 3080 3070 3060 Video Cards
0:10:11 Xbox Details
0:15:30 PS5 Price Speculation
0:21:01 Halo 3 Impressions from Tom
0:25:05 Nintendo News - Switch Pro, Nintendo 35 and more

Final Impressions - Towers
0:29:50 Iron Harvest

Trademark Banter
0:46:15 Vegan Aussie Confectionary and Pizza
0:49:30 Shatterd Union RTS on Xbox
0:50:50 Sky: Children of Light 1 Year Old Final

Impressions - Fogg and Towers
1:03:00 Night in the Woods 1:36:00 SPOILER ALERT
1:43:27 SPOILERS END HERE

Transcript

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 130 of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest running video games podcast.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by my co-host and founder, Tom Towers.

Phil: Hi, Tom.

Tom: I am indeed present.

Phil: Yes, it is.

Phil: Actually, you know what?

Phil: I haven't been watching the news quite closely.

Phil: We should probably tell people that you will be eating during this podcast, but you are eating a croissant, which is very, very low in terms of its interference for our video, audio recording.

Tom: So you will not be able to hear me eat the croissant, but you may be able to hear evidence of it being in my mouth while I speak.

00:00:45.980 --> 00:00:51.420

Phil: Yeah, we just thought this whole ASMR thing is something that might be able to help us get some new listeners.

00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:58.640

Phil: So I will not be eating what I usually eat, which is some chilli kettle chips.

00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:02.140

Tom: That will be like an episode with Gargan.

00:01:02.160 --> 00:01:04.100

Phil: Oh, is he really...

00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:06.420

Phil: he eats chips while he's on the show?

00:01:06.440 --> 00:01:10.580

Tom: He eats anything, and the louder the better on his podcast.

00:01:10.960 --> 00:01:11.720

Phil: Yeah, I have...

00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:19.860

Phil: Now that everyone's recording from home, which we should explain to our listeners because of these unprecedented times in which we live, we are both recording from our home studios.

00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:26.540

Phil: So if you do hear any audio things going on, crazy things like cats meowing, that's the reason why.

00:01:27.460 --> 00:01:32.360

Phil: But do you have a go-to food for when you're playing games, when you're video gaming?

00:01:32.380 --> 00:01:33.620

Phil: Because chips is not good.

00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:38.420

Phil: I mean, they're greasy, they mess up your controller.

00:01:39.440 --> 00:01:41.780

Tom: Usually I'm not eating when I'm playing games.

00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:43.020

Phil: Not at all.

00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.340

Tom: Though actually, if I'm playing...

00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.600

Tom: At the moment, usually I am actually playing a game while eating breakfast.

00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:52.520

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:01:53.340 --> 00:02:00.680

Tom: That is in fact how I played, for the most part, one of our items on the show today, Night in the Woods.

00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:02.760

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:04.860

Phil: I actually just finished that just before the show.

00:02:04.880 --> 00:02:07.500

Phil: I made sure I did all my homework and got it done in time.

00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:10.220

Phil: Me my go-to...

00:02:10.380 --> 00:02:21.060

Phil: Like if I had a food item, like I found the most efficient way is to put peanuts, flavored peanuts in a cup, and then I can just sort of drink them out of the cup and that keeps my hands nice and clean.

00:02:21.480 --> 00:02:24.040

Phil: So that's a pro tip for all the listeners out there.

00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:34.740

Tom: I believe an effective way supposedly of cleaning controllers is using screen wipes that you shouldn't actually use on your screen.

00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:37.480

Phil: No, you should not use screen wipes on your screen.

00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:38.300

Phil: Absolutely not.

00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:40.800

Tom: But they're apparently great for cleaning plastic safely.

00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:42.840

Phil: Now I know why you don't use screen wipes.

00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:43.960

Phil: Do you want to explain?

00:02:43.980 --> 00:02:46.940

Phil: I didn't know that this was something that other people knew besides me.

00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.260

Tom: Well, I believe they're usually alcohol-based, aren't they?

00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:50.860

Phil: Yep.

00:02:51.500 --> 00:03:01.140

Tom: And would not alcohol be an abrasive and dangerous substance to be applying it to a sensitive surface like a screen?

00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:02.300

Phil: Yes.

00:03:02.660 --> 00:03:09.540

Phil: And in fact, I always use dust, I mean like a dust cloth to clean your monitor.

00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:11.880

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

00:03:11.900 --> 00:03:25.680

Phil: But if someone's actually gone and touched your monitor and you do have to clean it or your screen, just warm water with a microfiber cloth is the way to go, making sure you wipe only in one direction.

00:03:25.980 --> 00:03:26.620

Tom: Absolutely.

00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:32.400

Phil: So those screen things, man, come on, they leave streaking, they're terrible, it's bad.

00:03:32.460 --> 00:03:33.220

Phil: It's bad for you.

00:03:33.220 --> 00:03:41.660

Phil: And another thing that's bad for you, have you kept up on the, we'll just hit some of the big items in the news this week, we'll get the Tom Towers reacts to the news.

00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:48.140

Phil: But of course, this will come as no surprise, because, you know, this has been everything.

00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:49.660

Phil: It's been the big story.

00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:59.120

Phil: The thing I'm most interested about is, have you looked over the new Nvidia graphics card, the RTX 3080?

00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.940

Tom: 3080, 3070 and 3060, in fact.

00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:21.540

Tom: And this is probably bigger news than the Xbox Series S and the price of the X, because everyone was anticipating a very unimpressive series of Nvidia cards coming up and at extraordinary prices.

00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:41.220

Tom: But what we ended up with is incredible for the complete opposite reason, in that the 3070, at least on paper, is essentially a 2080 Ti that is only $500 in the US, which is just an extraordinary deal.

00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:44.160

Phil: I was going to say, this is really your area of expertise.

00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:53.660

Phil: I'm looking at the prices of these, and the 3090 is going to go for $2500 for the Founder Edition.

00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:55.700

Tom: I think it's $1500, isn't it?

00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:58.720

Phil: Well, $2500, that's Australian money.

00:04:59.320 --> 00:05:05.760

Phil: And the 3080 is going for $1140, which sounds insane to me.

00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:11.760

Phil: But if you actually look at the thing, I mean, it's a beautiful piece of engineering, and I'm sure it's very capable.

00:05:11.780 --> 00:05:20.540

Phil: And again, you know that I'm a neophyte when it comes to graphics, so would it be worth the jump?

00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.260

Phil: I mean, what games would actually make use of that?

00:05:23.280 --> 00:05:24.640

Tom: Well, presently none.

00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:45.620

Tom: Well, actually, certainly the 2080 Ti, if you were to attempt to play Metro Exodus in 4K with the highest ray tracing settings on, it hovers around 60 FPS, if I remember consistently, but you're not getting much higher than that.

00:05:46.080 --> 00:06:02.060

Tom: So when it comes to even more demanding 4K titles with ray tracing, then it's conceivable that the 3080 and 3090 will actually be being utilised.

00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:10.180

Tom: But unless you are playing ray tracing at 4K, it probably is not very useful to have.

00:06:10.960 --> 00:06:13.620

Phil: I'm just seeing here, you can get a 2080 Ti.

00:06:14.640 --> 00:06:18.420

Phil: The cheapest is like a thousand bucks from MSI.

00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:23.060

Phil: And then they also have some for like 1800 bucks, 2300 bucks.

00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:25.580

Phil: So I guess I don't really understand the difference there.

00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.960

Phil: I guess it's all in terms of configurations with cooling fans and other things like that.

00:06:30.460 --> 00:06:33.340

Tom: Well, were you comparing the 2080 and the 2080 Ti?

00:06:33.820 --> 00:06:36.360

Phil: Just the 2080 Ti is all I was looking for.

00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:39.680

Phil: And these are all Australian prices on eBay.

00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:43.400

Phil: Even so, a thousand bucks for a video card.

00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:45.520

Phil: I mean, like at this point, would you go...

00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:52.420

Phil: Would you say, no, don't get a 2080 Ti because of the RTX 3080?

00:06:53.380 --> 00:06:54.560

Tom: You would not want to get...

00:06:55.540 --> 00:07:10.600

Tom: The only video card that would still be useful to purchase at the moment would be in the realm of very good deals on things like the 1650 and more budget-orientated cards.

00:07:11.700 --> 00:07:20.460

Phil: Because, yeah, you basically buy these cheaper ones because that's where you're going to get the most bang for your buck without feeling like you're going to have to make a major reinvestment in a short amount of time.

00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:21.020

Tom: Exactly.

00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:27.120

Phil: Yeah, and a 1650 TI, I'm having trouble getting a price for it, but what do you think they go for right now?

00:07:28.460 --> 00:07:38.700

Tom: When I was looking at them a while ago, if I remember correctly, and my memory is probably completely wrong, they were around the $500 mark.

00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:47.000

Phil: That's amazing value, which is kind of a funny thing for me to say, given the next topic, if you're ready to move on to that.

00:07:47.440 --> 00:08:00.040

Tom: Yep, and just last thing, the main appeal of these cards is definitely just for higher resolution rendering at this stage and things like ray tracing.

00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:13.420

Tom: So if you were playing games at 1080p, you really did not need more than a 1650 unless you were targeting ultra and ray tracing features in everything.

00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.320

Phil: Would it help for VR and stuff like that?

00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:19.900

Tom: Well, again, it depends on if you're targeting ultra.

00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:28.080

Tom: If you are going for ultra, and because a lot of VR is at least 1440p, then it does help in VR as well.

00:08:28.140 --> 00:08:34.820

Tom: But you can easily get away with something like the 1650ti with VR if you're playing on medium.

00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.400

Phil: You haven't dropped into VR yet, have you?

00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:40.340

Tom: No, I haven't.

00:08:40.760 --> 00:08:41.080

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:42.300

Phil: Any interest there or?

00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:44.180

Tom: I'm definitely interested in trying it.

00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:44.840

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:47.460

Phil: It's just a matter of getting the right rig or?

00:08:48.080 --> 00:09:02.120

Tom: Well, I would need to try a low budget version of it because the odds of it being unusable is pretty high, considering the weight of it and the likelihood of nausea.

00:09:02.680 --> 00:09:03.000

Phil: Yeah.

00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.360

Phil: Yeah.

00:09:03.380 --> 00:09:04.580

Phil: And I'm the same way.

00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:18.300

Phil: It's like, I'm interested, but realistically, with the short bursts of time I have for gaming every day, I'm not really going to get immersed in a thing, and I really don't want to spend that kind of money until I can try before I buy.

00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:31.160

Phil: And trying before you buy in these days, I was going to say it would be great if these VR rig manufacturers could send you a loaner sort of thing, but in these unprecedented times, that's probably not a good idea.

00:09:31.820 --> 00:09:38.820

Phil: Speaking of which, for our listeners that don't know, you're based in the hotspot in Australia of this whole COVID thing.

00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:40.860

Phil: Are you guys still in complete lockdown?

00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.620

Tom: We are still in stage 4 lockdown, yes.

00:09:45.060 --> 00:09:49.740

Phil: Yeah, which basically means that you can't be out after 8 o'clock at night.

00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:54.520

Tom: I think there's an 8 o'clock curfew, but that is I think about to change to 9 o'clock.

00:09:55.060 --> 00:09:55.440

Phil: Yeah.

00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:02.420

Tom: And you can go out for non-work reasons or shopping to exercise for one hour, I believe.

00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:08.200

Phil: It sounds really extreme for someone who's not living under those circumstances.

00:10:09.160 --> 00:10:09.800

Tom: Potentially.

00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:21.040

Phil: So the other, I mean, probably the biggest news, of course, for the last week, has been the Xbox Series X and the Xbox Series S pricing and launch dates.

00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:36.660

Phil: They're going to come out November 10th, and the prices in the United States are 500 bucks or $4.99 for the X, and then the S Series is only going to be $499.

00:10:36.680 --> 00:10:37.440

Tom: $300, right?

00:10:38.260 --> 00:10:41.260

Phil: $300, yes, $299, which is incredible.

00:10:42.020 --> 00:10:50.300

Phil: The only downside about that is that it doesn't have a disc, and it has fairly limited onboard storage.

00:10:50.940 --> 00:11:05.480

Phil: And given that the whole value proposition of the Xbox is Game Pass, and the fact that you won't be able to use a disc, so therefore you're going to have to download games, that sort of, I think, hamstrings the Series S.

00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:08.600

Tom: It should be easy to upgrade the storage though, shouldn't it?

00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:20.180

Phil: Well, they're using a proprietary storage, so it's not like what we've become accustomed to over the last couple of generations with just hooking up an SD drive, an external USB drive.

00:11:21.040 --> 00:11:27.260

Phil: On the Xbox, you actually, there is a proprietary plug, which is unlike anything that's out there already.

00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:33.300

Phil: So you'll only be able to use Xbox-licensed memory upgrades.

00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:36.260

Tom: Surely, there'll be a converter for that?

00:11:37.180 --> 00:11:38.080

Phil: Yeah, possibly.

00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.300

Phil: And whether or not Microsoft will allow it.

00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.900

Tom: If not, what is the storage on it?

00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:51.440

Phil: It's got 1 terabyte of storage on board, which would be what basically you can download Call of Duty Modern Warfare and APAC.

00:11:53.260 --> 00:11:56.260

Phil: So I think that really does hamstring it.

00:11:56.280 --> 00:12:01.720

Tom: What appeared at first to be an amazing deal is suddenly not looking so good.

00:12:02.260 --> 00:12:20.060

Tom: While you would be hoping for there to be a converter so that you can plug a normal SSD in or something to that effect, the description of it is that it has an internal 1 terabyte SSD and that there is an expansion slot on the rear to add an optional 1 terabyte SSD.

00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:30.800

Tom: And with the case of the Wii U, for instance, you were, without homebrewing it, limited to a maximum hard drive size.

00:12:30.820 --> 00:12:39.520

Tom: So if they're limiting you to 1 terabyte unless you are doing homebrew stuff, that is absolutely horrendous.

00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.340

Phil: And I think also, you know, you say, well, what about a converter?

00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.780

Phil: I'm pretty sure Microsoft's going to have this locked down for security and piracy reasons.

00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:54.700

Phil: They don't want anything accessible going next to it, which is probably why they've gone with this proprietary adapter.

00:12:55.580 --> 00:13:00.400

Phil: Though of course this thing will still have USBs, so it's kind of, yeah, who knows?

00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:06.140

Phil: But I can't imagine Microsoft will tolerate dongles.

00:13:06.280 --> 00:13:07.340

Phil: But we'll see.

00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:10.540

Phil: Because everything else they're doing is extremely consumer-friendly.

00:13:11.680 --> 00:13:24.880

Phil: The price down here in Australian dollars will be $749 Australian, which translates to about $585 US.

00:13:25.180 --> 00:13:27.300

Tom: Typically that's for the Series X.

00:13:28.020 --> 00:13:29.780

Phil: That's for the Series X, yes.

00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:45.840

Phil: But when you add in GST, which our sales tax is included in that, whereas in the United States, depending on the state you're in, you're paying 10% to 12% of sales tax, then there are ways to skirt that by buying online.

00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:50.180

Phil: Amazon no longer is a way to do that, but other smaller retailers.

00:13:50.560 --> 00:14:00.520

Phil: So when you look at that $500 in the US for the Series X, with, say, a 10% sales tax, you're actually paying $550.

00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:04.780

Phil: We're paying $585 here in US dollars.

00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:07.720

Phil: So we're not really getting pounded that much.

00:14:08.020 --> 00:14:09.040

Tom: That's pretty impressive.

00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:11.300

Tom: There's basically no markup on it at all.

00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:21.740

Phil: There's no tax, basically, to get it here to Australia, which is considerable, which is a considerable concession, given that we're a smaller population.

00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:26.880

Phil: It costs more to ship stuff to Australia than it does to major population centers.

00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:29.960

Phil: So I don't begrudge them on that one.

00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:34.600

Phil: I thought it was going to be $500 US, and it was.

00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.720

Phil: The surprise was the value of the Series S.

00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:43.700

Phil: $299 for a brand new console with the specs that it's got.

00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:45.200

Phil: It's unbelievable.

00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:58.340

Phil: And so if you're in an internet-friendly country, and you don't mind constantly deleting and re-downloading your games, and you don't mind that, it's an extremely great value.

00:14:59.260 --> 00:15:06.280

Phil: But they're probably looking at, you know, small G gamers will get that, because they're only going to want two or three games.

00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.600

Phil: They'll try a game, delete it off, you know.

00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:17.260

Phil: So it's a great message, and I think Microsoft has done a tremendous job in keeping this all under their hats for so long.

00:15:17.740 --> 00:15:26.740

Phil: And it really puts Sony in a difficult situation, because they've already announced their two models, and the only difference between the two is one has a drive and one doesn't.

00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:29.520

Phil: Rather a disk drive and one doesn't.

00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:39.540

Tom: So it will be interesting seeing the price of the PS5, given that they historically are always the more expensive console.

00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.460

Phil: I'm thinking 800 bucks here on the store.

00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:47.460

Tom: Have any consoles previously launched at more than 500 US recently?

00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.120

Phil: No.

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:49.980

Phil: No.

00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:51.780

Phil: No, that's been the cap.

00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:52.820

Phil: That's been the very top.

00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:58.540

Phil: Like the PlayStation 3, I think was 499.

00:15:58.720 --> 00:15:59.620

Phil: It could have been higher.

00:15:59.920 --> 00:16:00.740

Phil: I can't remember.

00:16:00.920 --> 00:16:08.040

Phil: But I don't see the PlayStation down here being any less than 800 bucks, unfortunately.

00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:14.800

Phil: And my guess for the state will be that it will be 549.

00:16:14.920 --> 00:16:25.920

Tom: I'm thinking maybe the Disclos version will be $500 if they really want to not be in the same realm as what Microsoft is doing.

00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:32.700

Tom: I think the original PS3, it had the harder and smaller hard drive version.

00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:37.660

Tom: I think the smaller hard drive version was 500 and the larger one was 600.

00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:41.900

Tom: So they might be doing something similar again.

00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:51.380

Tom: But that is a tall order for them to be competing with the $300 Series S.

00:16:51.480 --> 00:17:02.600

Tom: But of course, with the PS5, the only difference is the disc drive, whereas the Series S has a weaker GPU in it as well.

00:17:02.620 --> 00:17:11.220

Phil: Yeah, and can't do native 4K, but it can do 4K media, and that's where I think they're actually pulling a PlayStation 2 or a PlayStation 1.

00:17:11.380 --> 00:17:16.660

Phil: So whereas the PlayStation 2 was an affordable DVD player, which is why it sold so well.

00:17:18.260 --> 00:17:20.060

Tom: The PS3 as well with Blu-ray.

00:17:20.540 --> 00:17:24.320

Phil: And the PS3 with Blu-ray, although the value proposition wasn't there.

00:17:24.340 --> 00:17:27.360

Phil: But if you go to the small G Gamer...

00:17:27.840 --> 00:17:32.380

Tom: It was for the quality of the Blu-ray player in the PS3.

00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:42.780

Tom: You could get cheap Blu-ray players, but if I remember correctly, it was the cheapest one that was of beginner enthusiast quality.

00:17:43.540 --> 00:17:59.140

Phil: So what I'm saying though with the Series S, if you haven't got a 4K player right now, for $299 US, you're getting the Xbox, basically the new Xbox.

00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.040

Phil: It can play 4K media, can't play 4K games, but a small G game is not going to care about that anyway.

00:18:05.060 --> 00:18:11.380

Tom: I don't know if that's really good value though, given that you can get a $50 or $100 computer that will do 4K.

00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:17.180

Phil: Yeah, but again, we're talking about people who gaming isn't their primary disposition.

00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:22.520

Phil: They just have to have a gaming console in their house for various other things, like watching Netflix.

00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.760

Phil: It's a brain dead way to get Netflix and other things into your house.

00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:47.980

Phil: And in addition to that, with Microsoft's financing, they're basically offering a $25 a month thing to get the game pass, which means you're going to get every new Xbox game quote for free, you know, on release.

00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.780

Phil: You know, so it just sounds like a great deal.

00:18:51.800 --> 00:18:55.980

Phil: And yeah, I think Sony is going to really struggle to catch up.

00:18:57.100 --> 00:19:05.920

Tom: But they have always positioned themselves as the more high end and expensive console.

00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:18.940

Tom: So as impressive as the price of the Series S is, it's still a somewhat similar situation to previous generations, particularly with the PS2 as a comparison.

00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:20.540

Phil: Oh, absolutely.

00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:24.560

Phil: And also on games as well, you know, Sony is saying, no, we're a games console.

00:19:24.620 --> 00:19:26.820

Phil: Yeah, we have these other things, but we're a game console.

00:19:26.820 --> 00:19:27.920

Phil: We have exclusives.

00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:33.700

Phil: We have 17 worldwide studios around the world, and we'll actually have games at launch.

00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:40.980

Phil: Whereas Microsoft, you know, with Halo Infinite falling off, you know, doesn't really have a great launch lineup.

00:19:41.780 --> 00:19:59.160

Phil: But again, all that stuff doesn't matter because capital G gamers are going to buy the great new tech at launch, and small g gamers aren't going to notice that there isn't a great lineup as long as it's got, you know, Madden and the recently re-released Tony Hawk 1 and 2, which is apparently phenomenal.

00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:03.300

Phil: So yeah, in any case, it's all good.

00:20:04.600 --> 00:20:13.360

Phil: I wasn't eager to get an Xbox Series X at launch just because it wasn't really a compelling game for me to get along with it, and that's always important at a launch.

00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:16.500

Phil: But yeah, it'll...

00:20:16.800 --> 00:20:17.380

Phil: It's still...

00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:24.260

Phil: I'm still obviously very interested in the Xbox Series X as opposed to the S because of my internet limitations.

00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:30.520

Phil: And so is either of them compelling to you now that you've got a supercomputer?

00:20:30.540 --> 00:20:43.100

Tom: If not for my computer, if I was considering getting a non-Nintendo console, it would absolutely be the Series S because that is just an incredible deal.

00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:51.320

Tom: You're essentially getting a 1440p high-end computer for $500.

00:20:52.060 --> 00:20:52.340

Phil: Yeah.

00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:53.480

Phil: Yeah.

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:54.860

Phil: Yeah, it's great.

00:20:56.020 --> 00:20:59.820

Phil: Again, if not for the internet, I'd be pre-ordering an S today.

00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:12.260

Tom: Before we move on from Microsoft, you just reminded me of a game that I completely forgot about when we were doing the show notes that I have played the first level of, and I have to bring up.

00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:13.560

Tom: That is Halo 3.

00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:23.160

Tom: And we all remember how tremendously disappointed I was in the first level of Halo Reach.

00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:24.480

Phil: Yes.

00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:35.480

Tom: Yes, it was from the narrative to the gameplay to the look of the game, a tremendously disappointing experience.

00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.820

Tom: Halo 3, I am pleased to say, is the complete opposite.

00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:44.320

Tom: It is perhaps the best opening to a Halo that I have played.

00:21:45.140 --> 00:21:48.420

Tom: Coming from Reach, it's amazingly colourful.

00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:56.280

Tom: It's like it's a combination of Killzone 3 and Crisis, but better than both visually.

00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:02.860

Tom: The level design is on a completely different level.

00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:43.220

Tom: There's a combination of corridor sections, absolutely, but even the corridor sections are usually within areas that you can move out of the corridors, and you can use the corridors as cover to fight enemies outside of the corridors on platforms or in little hollows, and you can move from hollow to hollow as well, completely ignoring the corridors, unlike in Halo Reach, which was really static environments that were just basically plain open areas without any sort of detail affecting how you were moving and where the enemies were.

00:22:45.120 --> 00:23:10.040

Tom: The story is not some terrible imperialist Call of Duty fanfiction as the Halo Reach opening was, but a very much on-point Halo 3 semi-serious science fiction The World Coming Together story, essentially the complete reverse of what Reach was.

00:23:10.040 --> 00:23:17.020

Tom: And maybe Reach later on subverts Halo 3, the Halo style, interestingly, but the opening certainly didn't.

00:23:18.540 --> 00:23:27.900

Tom: And just again on the great tone of the story, the grunt banter is brilliant and on another level compared to what it was in Reach.

00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:33.960

Tom: The enemies are more densely populated due to the better design.

00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.000

Tom: It is just an absolutely perfect Halo opening.

00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:41.000

Phil: Does it start in a jungle setting?

00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:41.920

Phil: Yes, it does.

00:23:42.060 --> 00:23:43.460

Tom: No, it is in the jungle.

00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.760

Phil: I remember Halo 5, I remember Halo 1 and 2.

00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.720

Phil: The game you're talking about, I remember now.

00:23:53.300 --> 00:23:55.780

Phil: But I can't remember Halo 4 for the life of me.

00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:57.760

Tom: I think a lot of people can't.

00:23:58.580 --> 00:23:59.060

Phil: Yeah.

00:23:59.120 --> 00:24:08.040

Phil: And well, Halo 3, I didn't like it at the time because I was so hyped up about it, you know.

00:24:08.060 --> 00:24:09.760

Tom: A lot of people were disappointed at the time.

00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:14.200

Tom: It was, yeah, the majority opinion was that it was a massive disappointment.

00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:19.220

Tom: But at this stage, I think a lot of people consider it to be the best.

00:24:19.580 --> 00:24:23.740

Tom: The ones people choose as the best, I think, is 3, Reach.

00:24:24.780 --> 00:24:27.840

Tom: I think ODST is the hipster choice.

00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:31.460

Tom: And obviously 2 and 1 as well.

00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:34.020

Phil: Yeah, well, Reach is the best for sure.

00:24:34.220 --> 00:24:37.220

Phil: And then 1 is my favorite.

00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:41.140

Tom: Well, Reach certainly has the worst opening without any comparison.

00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:44.960

Phil: Yeah, I don't remember, but I've only played it twice, I think.

00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:46.300

Phil: But on Halo 3...

00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:50.700

Tom: Well, that might be an issue if you've played the game twice and you do not remember the opening.

00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:51.520

Phil: Can't remember, yeah.

00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:53.460

Phil: There's a lot of things I don't remember.

00:24:53.780 --> 00:24:57.060

Phil: But hey, Master Chief Collection, I do have that.

00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:58.780

Phil: So it looks like I'm in for a big update.

00:24:58.820 --> 00:25:01.640

Phil: And I've written Halo 3 down on the list.

00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:07.800

Phil: Speaking of the list, we've both been playing a game.

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:14.300

Phil: I really wanted to know what our next itch.io game is, if you can think about that while we're talking about stuff.

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.860

Phil: I don't think we have to spend too much time on Nintendo.

00:25:16.860 --> 00:25:28.000

Phil: I mean, there is a rumor that a Switch Pro is coming out that will not be portable at all and will provide 4K support on some level.

00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:34.640

Phil: I don't think it's entirely necessary for Nintendo to be doing this, but it won't hurt.

00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:41.640

Phil: I mean, it gives gamers another thing to buy, and then they can continue down two tracks that way.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.900

Phil: But I don't think that a non-portable...

00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:51.620

Phil: I think a non-portable Switch is as compelling as a non-dockable Switch.

00:25:51.820 --> 00:25:54.920

Phil: I don't see the point.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:03.600

Tom: I think a Light is a more compelling console than a non-portable at all Switch would be.

00:26:05.320 --> 00:26:14.440

Tom: Because there are people who only play handheld games, or would be interested in only playing Switch games as handheld games.

00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:28.920

Tom: I'm not sure how many people would be interested in playing a Switch that can upscale to 4K, but does not have the portability of either the standard console or the Light.

00:26:30.040 --> 00:26:35.240

Phil: Well, the portability for me enables me to play so many more hours of gaming every week.

00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:40.580

Phil: So for it to be non-portable is a deal breaker for me.

00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:46.700

Phil: And I just don't think there's enough people that would want upgraded graphics if they can just play it at home and only at home.

00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:56.600

Phil: I've got to say I play my Switch so much portably that when I do dock it and I play like Deadly Premonition 2 on the big screen, it's very impressive.

00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:00.840

Phil: It's like, oh my god, this is incredible.

00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:06.480

Phil: Because you're just playing it portably, you put it onto the dock, you pick up your pro controller and keep going.

00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:13.020

Phil: And just seeing everything that you're so used to seeing on a small screen come up on a big screen, it's just magical.

00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:18.980

Tom: So it's better fidelity than the Wii U then, because a lot of games are on the Wii U.

00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:32.060

Tom: If you're playing it on the gamepad, then you switch to a 1080p monitor or television screen, and it's 720p and you think it looks a lot better on a tiny screen.

00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:34.560

Phil: Look, there's nothing...

00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:40.760

Phil: The other Nintendo stuff is obviously the Mario 35th anniversary, which other shows have talked to to death.

00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:42.960

Tom: And it's a terrible deal.

00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.740

Phil: Yeah, it's terrible, obviously.

00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:55.440

Phil: It does make me want to go back and play Mario Sunshine on my GameCube, but other than that, it's not great.

00:27:55.460 --> 00:27:58.340

Phil: They did give away All Stars for free, but come on.

00:27:58.360 --> 00:28:04.620

Phil: I mean, they gave it away for free to people who are subscribing like myself on a monthly basis to Nintendo Online.

00:28:05.020 --> 00:28:07.740

Phil: And it's like, well, this should be there already anyway.

00:28:07.820 --> 00:28:14.220

Phil: I mean, their offerings for the online NES and SNES libraries is pathetic and pitiful.

00:28:15.340 --> 00:28:17.360

Tom: So you can only get that by subscribing?

00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.740

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

00:28:18.760 --> 00:28:20.260

Tom: So it's not available in the store?

00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:21.920

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:23.620

Phil: I don't know, honestly.

00:28:23.660 --> 00:28:24.540

Phil: That's a good question.

00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:29.880

Phil: And the thing that's interesting about it, Tom, is that this is the 24th month.

00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:37.100

Phil: So if you subscribe to Nintendo Online the first time around, this is where your second renewal subscription is coming up.

00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:43.040

Phil: So I believe this was an enticement just to continue doing it.

00:28:43.300 --> 00:28:51.160

Phil: Because honestly, other than Tetris 99, there's no reason to have Nintendo Online because the online offerings for their free stores...

00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:52.720

Tom: Splatoon 2, I believe.

00:28:53.280 --> 00:28:57.920

Phil: Yeah, Splatoon 2 and Mario Kart, you know, Tetris 99.

00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:00.960

Phil: Those are all good reasons to have it.

00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:02.140

Tom: Is Rocket League on Switch?

00:29:03.300 --> 00:29:04.060

Phil: It is, as well.

00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:05.140

Tom: There's four reasons.

00:29:05.660 --> 00:29:07.300

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:29:07.620 --> 00:29:09.160

Phil: I mean, and it's a good value.

00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:09.740

Phil: It's only like...

00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:10.720

Tom: It's not good value.

00:29:11.060 --> 00:29:13.040

Tom: You are paying for Nintendo Online.

00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.140

Tom: In no world is that good value.

00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:17.900

Phil: Yes, you're right.

00:29:19.100 --> 00:29:19.940

Phil: My apologies.

00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:28.000

Phil: But they did announce that Mario 35, which is like a Tetris 99 thing, but you haven't played Tetris 99, so you wouldn't fully get it.

00:29:30.800 --> 00:29:31.120

Phil: Yeah.

00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:36.080

Phil: Okay, well, with that, I think we're probably ready to talk about a game you're playing.

00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:46.540

Phil: Last time we talked about a 90s shooter that I did look at, it's 20 bucks on the Switch, but I just want to finish Deadly Premonition 2 before I get another Switch game.

00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:47.980

Phil: What was it called?

00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.060

Tom: Project Warlock.

00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:52.080

Phil: Project Warlock, right.

00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:55.500

Phil: And we talked about Iron Maiden, which is a similar type of game.

00:29:56.280 --> 00:29:58.180

Phil: You've actually been playing Iron Harvest.

00:29:58.440 --> 00:29:59.200

Tom: Yes, I have.

00:29:59.620 --> 00:30:07.440

Tom: And this is an RTS, I believe, originally a Kickstarter title by King Art Games.

00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:25.580

Tom: And followers of The Game Under Podcast should be well familiar with King Art Games because they are the developer of The Book of Unwritten Tales, which was a very successful adventure game series in the 2010s.

00:30:26.260 --> 00:30:34.200

Tom: So it's interesting that they're making an RTS in the first place, but they apparently at one point made a turn-based strategy game.

00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:41.640

Tom: And they have made a tactical RPG, so this is apparently within their wheelhouse to some degree.

00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:46.340

Phil: So this is a German developer, and then Iron Harvest is available.

00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:48.240

Phil: You're playing it on PC or Xbox?

00:30:48.260 --> 00:30:51.260

Tom: I was playing the open beta on PC.

00:30:51.280 --> 00:30:52.480

Phil: Okay.

00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:58.080

Tom: But it is now out, so I am not currently playing more of it yet.

00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:07.740

Tom: I may get it at some point in Steam sale, but obviously no one with any sense of self-dignity buys anything on Steam that is not heavily discounted.

00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:16.720

Tom: But the open beta was actually about, I think, five of the ten missions of the first of three campaigns.

00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:21.260

Tom: So it was a reasonably in-depth demo that anyone could play.

00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.240

Tom: Being an open beta, you didn't need to try and get into it or anything like that.

00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:33.880

Tom: And the whole hook of the game is that it is an alternative history dieselpunk setting.

00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:57.620

Tom: Basically, it's set during the, I think, just after the First World War in the lead-up to the second in Polania, which is obviously Poland, which is stuck between Saxony, I think, they're called, Germany, and the Rusviets, which is obviously a combination of Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union.

00:31:59.100 --> 00:32:05.920

Tom: And also being an adventure game company, you would expect the story to be somewhat interesting.

00:32:06.620 --> 00:32:19.940

Tom: And the hook at the beginning is essentially you, it's more in the vein of a company of heroes than it is something like StarCraft, although there are base elements to it.

00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:28.980

Tom: It's more about the minute-to-minute strategy in combat than it is about mining resources and harvesting stuff.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:47.480

Tom: And an example of this is in the levels where you do have bases, while the harvesting of resources is important, the main way you actually get it is by taking over enemy oil rigs and mines and things like that as you are exploring the map.

00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:52.880

Tom: And then at some point, you reach an area where you have to set up base and build things.

00:32:53.380 --> 00:33:01.400

Tom: And that's made a lot easier by having already taken over previous mines and things like that that the enemy had.

00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:16.980

Tom: So even when building is important, at least in the first half of the campaign, it's usually as part of a mission, rather than as you're plonked in an area with a base and you have to go out of the base and slowly take over the map from there, destroying enemy bases and so forth.

00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:29.640

Tom: So it is much more in the vein of something like Company of Heroes, and as a result as well, the heroes and special units and so forth are more important than in something like StarCraft as well.

00:33:29.800 --> 00:33:50.420

Tom: And the story of the Polanyian campaign is about a Polanyian peasant girl, and it starts off with a hilarious introduction, teaching the controls where you have a snow battle with a group of boys who don't want to play war games with you because you're a girl.

00:33:51.860 --> 00:34:03.020

Tom: And this sense of humour and amusing, but also serious tone to the story is kept throughout, and it's got a lot of interesting historical references.

00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:20.820

Tom: For instance, the girl during the story befriends a bear who goes around as a medic later on healing your troops, which is a reference to a bear that the Soviet Union had in a squad as a mascot at some point.

00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:30.580

Tom: I think, not sure if it was in Poland or a different part of the Soviet Union, but there's many references like that.

00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:35.780

Phil: Yeah, I just watched the theatrical intro, and it's comically bombastic.

00:34:36.460 --> 00:34:46.240

Phil: And it's got the bear, it's got the robots with the glowing eyes, it's got a little boy playing with what looks to be battle tanks now that I'm watching gameplay video.

00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:51.220

Phil: I'm looking at the gameplay video of it in real-time strategies.

00:34:51.240 --> 00:35:10.600

Phil: Like, the only one that I've really played beyond Castles 2 was Halo Wars, and I was so enthralled with the genre from Halo Wars because it was made by one of the preeminent developers of RTS.

00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:17.920

Phil: I forget their names right now, but they were subsequently closed by Microsoft, and it was their last game, in fact.

00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:26.500

Phil: And I absolutely loved the genre, but for the fact that it created an extreme level of anxiety.

00:35:27.860 --> 00:35:33.280

Phil: I was so stressed out while I was playing it that I just couldn't play it again.

00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:42.460

Phil: You know, I'll play turn-based strategies, but real-time strategies just always had me worried about what I was missing or what was happening off-screen.

00:35:44.140 --> 00:35:47.980

Phil: But I'm looking at the gameplay of the beta.

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:58.160

Phil: It looks really good in terms of how it operates, but they're jumping backwards and forwards from the front line back to defending their bases, and that's the thing that just stresses me out.

00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:03.740

Phil: Is that a common trepidation that players of these things have?

00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:10.960

Tom: Well, I don't think players of them would have that trepidation, but it may put some people off the genre itself.

00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:15.000

Phil: I just want to see the whole battlefield, you know?

00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:17.980

Tom: And you're limited by Fog of War as well.

00:36:19.120 --> 00:36:19.960

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:36:20.100 --> 00:36:32.040

Tom: But it would actually be an interesting mechanic in an RTS to have a drone-eyes view over the entirety of a battlefield.

00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:36.940

Phil: That would make me less stressful because I'm always worried about what I'm not seeing.

00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:42.600

Phil: So I was always just moving around the whole screen the whole time, making sure that I wasn't missing something.

00:36:44.580 --> 00:36:46.940

Phil: Yeah, but talking just...

00:36:47.100 --> 00:36:57.560

Phil: I'll let you get back to it in a second, but talking about playing pre-Baters and early access, I've only ever played one early access game, and I don't know why.

00:36:57.580 --> 00:36:58.380

Phil: I must have been drunk.

00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:01.600

Phil: But I bought Prison Architect.

00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:15.760

Phil: And I played the Beta, and I had fun with it, but it was janky as hell, and I just played so much of it that by the time the game came out and I had full access to it, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:16.520 --> 00:37:27.600

Phil: And I keep updating it, thinking I'm going to go back to it, but because I had the early access impression of the game, I'm still like, got that thing in my head that, yeah, well, I've sort of...

00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:35.540

Phil: I've already enjoyed the best parts of it, and it was janky, and that sort of turns me off from going back to playing the full game.

00:37:36.540 --> 00:37:37.300

Phil: So I'm not sure...

00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:41.080

Phil: Again, I don't know if this is a common thing, but I've just got to...

00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:44.700

Phil: I just think early access is a bad idea.

00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:55.980

Phil: It's a good idea in terms of getting money up front, but from a gameplay perspective, I think it sort of shoots you in the foot, at least for a small share of the population such as myself.

00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.680

Tom: I think it depends on the game and how it's done.

00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:03.900

Tom: For instance, this was basically like an extended demo.

00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.780

Tom: That works pretty well.

00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:27.120

Tom: The one thing you would potentially be annoyed about, I anyway would, other than the Steam sale, if you could not continue from where you were up to, I would want to wait a while to continue because the five missions is several hours worth of gameplay depending on how fast you are.

00:38:27.140 --> 00:38:30.520

Tom: And I'm not particularly good at RTSs.

00:38:30.540 --> 00:38:36.100

Tom: I'm okay at turn-based strategy games, at least tabletop ones.

00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:43.360

Tom: But RTSs, though, I have a reasonable amount of experience playing quite a few of them, and I do greatly enjoy the genre.

00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:50.260

Tom: I'm not good at them because I'm terrible at the building aspect of them, for the most part.

00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:55.360

Tom: So that would be several hours of redoing the same thing if you could not continue.

00:38:56.420 --> 00:39:03.600

Tom: But as I said, the building stuff was secondary, so I did not do too badly in it.

00:39:04.660 --> 00:39:14.700

Tom: And there are some issues with it, though, which hopefully are fixed in the final version, but the open beta was obviously just before the game released, so who knows?

00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.900

Tom: But take this with a grain of salt in case they have been fixed.

00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:39.180

Tom: But there were numerous glitches where, with mechs that had the ability to embank themselves in an area and basically become an immobile turret, they would glitch into doing that themselves, and from then on, you could not move them.

00:39:39.220 --> 00:39:43.480

Tom: So you would have a unit stuck there that you could not replace.

00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:49.740

Tom: And being a company of hero style thing, the amount of units you have is extremely limited.

00:39:50.120 --> 00:40:04.960

Tom: So when you have a unit randomly just plonk itself down somewhere and become completely useless for the entire mission unless an enemy happens to wander over to it, that rather handicapped me on several occasions.

00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:10.280

Tom: So that would be extremely frustrating in the main game as well.

00:40:11.620 --> 00:40:44.560

Tom: The pathfinding of units as well is a little bit weird because one of the aesthetically really enjoyable things about the game is that the mechs can just walk through buildings and they will collapse, but the pathfinding of mechs, they will often not try to take the direct route somewhere, but walk all over the place to avoid stuff that they can walk through as if they are standard infantry, which also makes how you're attacking things a little bit awkward to plan as well.

00:40:45.980 --> 00:40:58.440

Tom: So there are issues like that, but with the exception of one mission that was simultaneously a pretty very interesting concept, was also a little bit annoying.

00:40:59.040 --> 00:41:05.320

Tom: Basically, you were escorting a train that could shoot mortar through an area from one side of the map to the other.

00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:13.700

Tom: So on the one hand, this is a really cool and interesting idea that you were escorting this train that can also provide mortar support.

00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:20.840

Tom: On the other hand, it did become a bit of a slightly annoying escort mission as you were protecting the train.

00:41:21.740 --> 00:41:42.460

Tom: But most of the missions are really interestingly paced and do combine light base management and more standard Company of Heroes exploration and figuring out how to attack a base with taking into account the cover of the troops and all that sort of thing.

00:41:43.080 --> 00:41:49.860

Tom: And the other issue as well is mechs are rather overpowered, in my experience.

00:41:49.880 --> 00:42:06.880

Tom: So you essentially have, to my understanding of it, and take into account that I am not very good at RTSs, so I could have been completely wrong, there's not much motivation to actually use infantry once you unlock mechs other than engineers who repair mechs.

00:42:07.940 --> 00:42:10.040

Tom: And they're also a little bit overpowered as well.

00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:39.120

Tom: So you essentially just make a squad of mechs, take into account that some mechs are better at killing mechs, and some are better at killing infantry, have basically an engineer to repair them when they take damage, and you're then not really in too much damage, and you also do not really need to take into account cover and how to attack enemies to the same degree as if you were using infantry because mechs can essentially blow up cover.

00:42:40.420 --> 00:42:45.520

Tom: So mechs seem to be tremendously overpowered, so it may also...

00:42:46.540 --> 00:43:06.280

Tom: That's certainly an issue as far as the campaign is concerned, and online it would probably make it less interesting just because you're probably involved in massive mech battles against each other, but obviously if you're playing against someone else, it won't feel like it's making it easier because they'll be doing the same thing.

00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.300

Phil: The name of the game we're talking about is Iron Harvest.

00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:11.100

Phil: It is a...

00:43:12.500 --> 00:43:13.040

Phil: Sounds like a...

00:43:13.520 --> 00:43:16.880

Phil: Because the RTS genre has kind of been fallen off lately.

00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:18.680

Tom: Due to MOBAs.

00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:20.120

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:24.180

Phil: So it seems to be a pretty welcome reignition of the genre.

00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:27.500

Phil: It's available for Xbox, PlayStation 4 and PC.

00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:31.160

Phil: King Art is a German developer.

00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:37.580

Phil: So when they're dealing with this World War I era staff, obviously in Germany there's...

00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:40.900

Phil: Post-World War I, pre-World War II.

00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:41.500

Tom: Exactly.

00:43:42.060 --> 00:43:44.460

Phil: So it's the guys with the spiky helmets.

00:43:45.060 --> 00:43:46.720

Phil: We haven't gotten to Nazism yet.

00:43:46.740 --> 00:43:47.180

Tom: Correct.

00:43:48.580 --> 00:43:54.500

Phil: So it's generally getting a very good response from people who enjoy the RTS genre.

00:43:55.600 --> 00:43:59.060

Phil: So everything you're saying about it seems particularly favourable.

00:43:59.080 --> 00:43:59.820

Tom: Yep, definitely.

00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:11.320

Tom: There are those issues that could be really frustrating at times, but it is, outside of that, a really enjoyable, lightish RTS experience.

00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:14.280

Tom: And the setting is absolutely fantastic.

00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:16.520

Tom: The mechs look tremendously good.

00:44:16.540 --> 00:44:19.980

Tom: They fit the era absolutely perfectly.

00:44:20.080 --> 00:44:32.240

Tom: And the combination of historical references as well, for instance, Tesla is going around in it as a character in the background, or at least he's referenced, and lots of stuff like that.

00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.600

Phil: Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun.

00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:45.200

Phil: I've got to say that one thing I wanted to ask you about, because it's something I've been thinking a lot of since I've been playing Night in the Woods, is the audio design.

00:44:45.260 --> 00:44:48.320

Phil: In an RTS, is that kind of neither here nor there, really?

00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.100

Tom: It's probably not as important as most other genres.

00:44:52.520 --> 00:44:57.860

Phil: Yeah, and that's because your focus is so enthralled with what's going on in the screen.

00:44:57.880 --> 00:44:59.260

Phil: I mean, it's just...

00:44:59.740 --> 00:45:02.720

Phil: RTSs are just fucking sensory overload.

00:45:03.160 --> 00:45:26.300

Tom: But I do think there's two aspects where they're important, and one of the reasons that I played Age of Empires and StarCraft over other games is the first thing that the audio is important to is in the voice acting, in giving the units and so forth some character, which adds to the enjoyment greatly.

00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:55.140

Tom: The other thing is from a tactile perspective, the sounds related to what you're doing in StarCraft, for instance, in terms of when you're starting unit building and looking around the map and navigating unit trees and all that sort of stuff makes what can in other RTSs be a slightly cumbersome and annoying experience as a satisfying and engaging part of the gameplay as well.

00:45:56.580 --> 00:45:59.600

Phil: Well, do you have much more to say about Iron Harvest?

00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:05.760

Tom: No, but it was, in spite of some pretty annoying issues, a pretty favourable first impression.

00:46:07.040 --> 00:46:07.500

Phil: Indeed.

00:46:07.520 --> 00:46:12.280

Phil: Hey, before we get on to Sky, Children of Light, you've done a...

00:46:13.160 --> 00:46:14.440

Phil: Well, we'll get into that in a moment.

00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:21.020

Phil: I've got to tell you, I'm seeing a lot more vegan food around that I didn't really expect to see.

00:46:21.460 --> 00:46:25.460

Phil: Peters is an ice cream company here in Australia.

00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:26.780

Phil: I don't know who owns them.

00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:29.420

Phil: They have like a vegan drumstick now.

00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:31.360

Phil: So Australians know what a drumstick is.

00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:37.840

Phil: I'm not going to waste our international listeners describing what it is, but I was just walking around and on the sign it said vegan.

00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:48.660

Phil: You know, it's like some coffee drumstick thing, which isn't hard to believe, because if you taste that ice cream, it doesn't sound, it doesn't taste like, it has any dairy content whatsoever.

00:46:49.540 --> 00:46:56.360

Phil: And then I bumbled into the fact that Domino's has a broad array of vegan pizzas.

00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:01.280

Phil: Because it's something I have at my company, and I said, no, no, you know, I don't eat pizza.

00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:07.460

Phil: And then they ordered like a part of, a whole bunch of vegan pizzas, so I could have lunch with them.

00:47:08.160 --> 00:47:14.840

Phil: And there was like four or five different varieties of Domino's vegan pizzas.

00:47:16.180 --> 00:47:17.120

Phil: Are you aware of this?

00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:17.900

Tom: Yes, I am.

00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.720

Tom: I have in fact tried the vegan drumstick.

00:47:21.640 --> 00:47:22.340

Phil: Oh, you have?

00:47:22.660 --> 00:47:23.040

Tom: Yes.

00:47:23.660 --> 00:47:26.200

Tom: I thought this may have even come up on the show.

00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:27.180

Phil: No, no.

00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:28.280

Tom: Previously.

00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:29.840

Phil: No, no, no.

00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.100

Phil: There's news to me.

00:47:31.120 --> 00:47:33.920

Phil: And it just tasted like vegan ice cream, right?

00:47:34.140 --> 00:47:34.760

Tom: Correct.

00:47:35.080 --> 00:47:38.620

Tom: Not the best vegan ice cream I've tasted by far.

00:47:39.040 --> 00:47:48.140

Tom: And the biggest difference between the normal drumstick and the vegan one is in the texture, more so than the flavor.

00:47:48.160 --> 00:47:55.580

Tom: The vegan one is a bit more gritty as one might expect and less prone to melting.

00:47:56.460 --> 00:48:05.680

Phil: You know, a sanitarium, an Australian company down here, has a vegan ice cream called So Good, which is made of soy protein.

00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:14.200

Phil: And I find it to be great, but then also I've been a vegan for a long, long time, so I probably don't even know what real ice cream tastes like at this point.

00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:18.540

Phil: But hey, thumbs up for the vegan Domino's pizzas.

00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:22.800

Phil: They tasted just like a Domino pizza, or my memory of them.

00:48:23.860 --> 00:48:30.640

Phil: So yeah, very low in terms of its quality, but it was Domino's pizza.

00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:32.620

Phil: They've replicated it exactly.

00:48:33.580 --> 00:48:38.880

Phil: So the cheese was just like you'd imagine, and the fake meat was just like you'd imagine.

00:48:38.900 --> 00:48:40.480

Phil: So yeah, thumbs up.

00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.000

Tom: It tasted just as fake as the real thing.

00:48:43.580 --> 00:48:50.620

Phil: If you want a crap pizza vegan experience, I thoroughly endorse the vegan Domino's pizza.

00:48:50.980 --> 00:48:57.800

Tom: And for those listening at home, the owner of Peter's ice cream is Fronieri, which I'm sure we've all heard of.

00:48:58.840 --> 00:48:59.900

Phil: No, I haven't heard of them.

00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:07.720

Tom: They are an English ice cream manufacturer with their headquarters in Lee Ming Bar, North Yorkshire.

00:49:08.200 --> 00:49:09.280

Phil: Wow, that's great.

00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:12.900

Phil: I thought they'd be owned by some American or Chinese conglomerate.

00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:13.840

Phil: So that's wonderful.

00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:18.200

Tom: Peter's was apparently founded by an ex-pat American.

00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:27.780

Tom: So in a sense, it was originally American, but now it's no longer American, and it's been sold overseas.

00:49:28.220 --> 00:49:29.300

Phil: It's lost its heritage.

00:49:30.460 --> 00:49:44.760

Phil: So before we move on to the next topic, I did want to mention that the game that you described, which was an old history RTS, reminded me of a game called Shattered Union, which came out in 2005 by a company called Top Pop Software.

00:49:45.660 --> 00:50:07.700

Phil: These are the guys that they did work on, well, they did Railroad Tycoon 2 and 3, but they're also the company that created Tropico, and Shattered Union was actually their last game before they were folded into Firaxis, which is Sid Meier's company that does the SIBs and everything, which I think is great.

00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:23.200

Phil: I mean, they labored from 1998 to 2005 in the RTS genre exclusively until Sid Meier saw Shattered Union and went, okay, that's enough, you're working for us now, which is a great story, because it was just a very small, small team.

00:50:23.220 --> 00:50:27.960

Tom: Is that because they didn't want them to embarrass themselves further or because they were so impressed?

00:50:28.520 --> 00:50:29.780

Phil: So impressed, of course.

00:50:29.780 --> 00:50:33.240

Phil: In Shattered Union, I'd encourage everyone to look up the story behind it.

00:50:34.120 --> 00:50:40.480

Phil: It was RTS that played on the original Xbox, and the original Xbox had trouble keeping up with the graphics.

00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:54.420

Phil: Now, the next game we're going to talk about is Sky Children of Light, but not extensively, but just to mention that you've put up an article on gameunder.net about its one-year anniversary, and I can't believe it's only been one year.

00:50:54.600 --> 00:50:55.920

Tom: And still no Switch port.

00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:58.180

Phil: And still no Switch port.

00:50:58.200 --> 00:50:59.100

Phil: I checked again today.

00:51:00.900 --> 00:51:01.780

Phil: The one thing that...

00:51:02.100 --> 00:51:17.780

Phil: I read your article, and if you want to give a capsule summary to it, that'd be great, but I remembered while I was reading it that Jenova Chen described Sky Children of Light as a, quote, social global adventure experience.

00:51:18.220 --> 00:51:20.360

Phil: And that was before the game was released.

00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:29.980

Phil: They said that Journey was designed with the intention of you playing it by yourself, and they introduced a small element of social interaction.

00:51:30.380 --> 00:51:41.460

Phil: But basically what they wanted to do with Sky Children of Light, which is a mobile game available on Android and Apple, was to create this social global adventure experience.

00:51:42.220 --> 00:51:46.100

Phil: So it sounds like that was really like the driving force behind it.

00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:49.920

Phil: And after reading your article, I've got to say that they have succeeded.

00:51:50.740 --> 00:51:53.300

Tom: I would agree that they have indeed succeeded.

00:51:54.660 --> 00:51:57.520

Phil: One of the things that you talked about with that is that the...

00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:06.360

Phil: in terms of breaking down national and language barriers, it's really a unique experience and one that's new to the MMO space.

00:52:06.860 --> 00:52:09.020

Phil: Now, I haven't played any MMOs ever.

00:52:10.620 --> 00:52:11.760

Phil: At least RPGs.

00:52:11.900 --> 00:52:15.200

Phil: So, did you want to expand on that?

00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:35.300

Tom: Well, I think it's a phenomenon that probably extends beyond Sky, but because of the way Sky works with more limited interaction to most games and settings, it is amplified in Sky.

00:52:35.320 --> 00:52:49.640

Tom: And one of the ways in which, if I remember, I hypothesized that boundaries between cultures and nationalities and languages were broken down is through memes.

00:52:49.680 --> 00:52:57.240

Tom: And when I say memes, I don't mean literally memes, but that style of participatory humour.

00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:29.460

Tom: Because it essentially offers, with the prevalence of the internet, wherever the internet is, a shared style of and format of humour, which allows obviously there then anyone from any culture to engage in a safe style of banter, which was not at all the case in earlier days of the internet, at least in places I frequented, and certainly not in MMOs.

00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:46.660

Phil: Well, I have to ask you about that because you were a proponent of MapleStory, and so I immediately thought, based on your prior experience, was MapleStory a hostile environment, unlike Sky Children of Light?

00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:49.280

Tom: Well, MapleStory I did not play that much.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.380

Tom: You must be thinking of something else.

00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:53.540

Tom: I did indeed play MapleStory.

00:53:54.080 --> 00:54:18.140

Tom: MapleStory would fit into the category of games like Gunbound, where it's not as extreme as something like private servers or public servers of Ragnarok Online or World of Warcraft or RuneScape, for instance, where there was some crossover between cultures and nationalities.

00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:22.500

Tom: Definitely more so in MapleStory than those sorts of games.

00:54:22.640 --> 00:54:32.320

Tom: But still not to the same degree of as Sky or places like Discord servers and things like that.

00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:41.340

Phil: So with Sky, just to read it out, obviously, there's a translation tool that's within Sky?

00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:48.340

Tom: No, the translation tool that Chinese players in particular use is something unrelated to Sky.

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:56.460

Phil: Oh, okay, because real time translation through Skype and some other communication tools is a real thing.

00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:58.560

Phil: And they're actually apparently quite good.

00:54:58.580 --> 00:55:00.480

Phil: I haven't had the call to use them.

00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:05.300

Phil: But it's just one of those great resources that's just sitting there waiting.

00:55:07.020 --> 00:55:12.920

Phil: So what I didn't understand after reading that article, I thought that that was endemic to Sky.

00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:17.600

Phil: Like that was something that they had incorporated into it was this universal translator.

00:55:17.620 --> 00:55:18.480

Phil: But that's not the case.

00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:19.300

Tom: Unfortunately not.

00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:21.040

Tom: That would be amazing if it was.

00:55:21.700 --> 00:55:32.980

Phil: So what about the community do you think has led to this being a unique experience where there's less friction between the different languages and cultures?

00:55:33.240 --> 00:56:11.960

Tom: Well, other than the more cosmopolitan internet of today in general, and the shared sense of humour that has occurred concurrently with it, the two things that Sky itself does different, which helps reduce friction even further, is the first contact you have with anyone is not talking to them, but it's purely through what you're doing in the game, and emoticons, which has resulted in an emoticon-based etiquette that has developed, which is quite an interesting phenomenon in and of itself.

00:56:13.140 --> 00:56:21.660

Tom: So when you are talking to someone, it doesn't necessarily mean you've made them your friend and unlocked chat, though that could well be the case.

00:56:21.680 --> 00:56:54.140

Tom: It could be that someone has a table or a campfire, which random people can sit out and talk at, but regardless of the cause, it is a rarer form of communication, and that therefore obviously is going to encourage people to be more interested in using it as a form of communication as opposed to simply trolling because there is some degree of effort or luck required to get into that.

00:56:54.160 --> 00:57:04.160

Tom: That is, effort of unlocking stuff with friends or unlocking a table or campfire yourself, or luck of someone else having placed a table or campfire in an area.

00:57:05.060 --> 00:57:17.240

Phil: One of the games I was hoping that we might play together soon was, well, play simultaneously rather because it's not co-op, is a game called Kind Words, subtitled Lo-Fi Chill Beats to Write To.

00:57:17.260 --> 00:57:18.780

Phil: Are you familiar with this indie game?

00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:23.780

Tom: I'm not familiar with the indie game, I'm familiar with the meme.

00:57:24.660 --> 00:57:26.100

Phil: Oh, okay, well, it's a game.

00:57:26.120 --> 00:57:27.460

Tom: That there's an indie game of this?

00:57:27.940 --> 00:57:28.900

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:57:28.900 --> 00:57:34.460

Phil: It's basically a game called Kind Words where basically people send messages and then you get to respond to them.

00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:35.580

Tom: Oh, I know, yeah, I've heard of that.

00:57:39.540 --> 00:58:00.660

Phil: It's not in the HIO godsail that I could find, so you're gonna have to do some digging there for me, because I was thinking you were saying, oh, this is a unique experience, and obviously it is in the MMO world, but Kind Words, I thought that perhaps, you know, that was a place where there was a similar kind of accepting culture.

00:58:01.900 --> 00:58:06.360

Tom: And I think, what are the Sunset Developers called again?

00:58:06.380 --> 00:58:08.120

Phil: Oh, wow.

00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:23.280

Tom: Because I think they are pioneers in this area with their game in which you play as woodland animals and inhabit a wood, and you can communicate to one another through body language and various things, which is...

00:58:24.180 --> 00:58:24.710

Phil: Oh, okay...

00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:24.710

Tom: .

00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:27.740

Tom: very much in the vein of Journey and Sky.

00:58:28.160 --> 00:58:29.420

Phil: That was Tale of Tales.

00:58:29.980 --> 00:58:30.600

Tom: There you go.

00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:36.280

Phil: We probably should check to make sure that they're still around and keep buying all of their games.

00:58:37.300 --> 00:58:39.960

Tom: I'm pretty sure they are not still around.

00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:40.980

Phil: Yeah.

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:45.360

Tom: I think they rather famously stopped making games.

00:58:45.900 --> 00:58:48.120

Phil: Yeah, in 2013, unfortunately.

00:58:48.140 --> 00:58:48.460

Tom: Yes.

00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:49.540

Phil: Man.

00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:52.160

Phil: I'm just thinking of their games.

00:58:52.180 --> 00:58:53.780

Phil: The Endless Forest, do you remember that one?

00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:54.220

Tom: Yes.

00:58:56.060 --> 00:58:56.820

Phil: The Path.

00:58:58.660 --> 00:59:01.920

Tom: I think the Endless Forest is the one I was referring to, right?

00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:02.720

Phil: Yeah.

00:59:02.980 --> 00:59:03.280

Phil: Yeah.

00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:04.560

Phil: I think so.

00:59:05.680 --> 00:59:18.460

Tom: And the other reason that will contribute to it is just most likely the generally collaborative nature of the gameplay and the aesthetic of it as well.

00:59:19.360 --> 00:59:24.580

Tom: And the aesthetic certainly attracts a lot of artists.

00:59:24.720 --> 00:59:35.360

Tom: The quantity of people who draw things and paint in the game is extremely high compared to the general gaming community for some reason.

00:59:35.380 --> 00:59:38.340

Tom: And probably the reason is in fact the aesthetic.

00:59:39.220 --> 00:59:48.620

Phil: And I think that that's why, I mean, the Jenova Chen aesthetic, that game company's aesthetic, is very artistic and very open.

00:59:48.660 --> 00:59:52.900

Phil: And I'm just, I'm amazed that people actually have found the game, and it's wonderful.

00:59:52.920 --> 01:00:01.720

Phil: The one thing I would conflict with you about, or rather ask you to explain more, is you said it's a very cosmopolitan game.

01:00:03.080 --> 01:00:08.980

Phil: But then you talked about how the sense of humor, the internet sense of humor is becoming uniform.

01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:12.000

Phil: And so, like, I think that's more of a monoculture.

01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:22.720

Phil: And in a way, I think that multicultural views are the same as a monoculture, because I think that's actually killing off cultures.

01:00:22.740 --> 01:00:35.540

Phil: Like, if the internet as a community is having the same jokes and the same sense of humor and this shared, you know, sensibility, then isn't that the opposite of cosmopolitan?

01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:40.520

Tom: I think that's covered in the article, because you can have two things simultaneously.

01:00:41.260 --> 01:00:51.760

Tom: Essentially, the shared sense of humor is there as a foundation of initial communication or in general communication.

01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:53.220

Phil: Ah, okay.

01:00:53.240 --> 01:01:01.260

Tom: But that existing does not mean that fine details of culture cease to exist.

01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:01.720

Phil: Wonderful.

01:01:01.780 --> 01:01:04.260

Tom: I think the two things can exist simultaneously.

01:01:05.120 --> 01:01:25.020

Phil: And 20 or 30 years ago, probably more 20 years ago, I found myself in an airport or on a plane talking to someone using stick figures and drawings, and that would be the universal language, the memes, as a gateway to our communicating, but it still made me an Australian, and it still made them an Indonesian or whatever.

01:01:26.720 --> 01:01:27.580

Phil: Okay, well, wonderful.

01:01:27.640 --> 01:01:28.600

Phil: Okay, well, good.

01:01:28.620 --> 01:01:40.960

Phil: Because I see the monoculture, and monoculture is not an anthropologic term that's used much in terms of the way that I see it.

01:01:41.020 --> 01:01:59.360

Phil: Like I see the monoculture as killing, as the internet killing individual cultures around the world, to the point where when I grew up, like there was such a thing as a aucharism and a way that Australians spoke that you don't see anymore because we're influenced so much by YouTube.

01:01:59.620 --> 01:02:04.380

Tom: I would say there's even a universal aspect, accent, sorry, developing on YouTube.

01:02:04.560 --> 01:02:06.220

Phil: Yes, unfortunately.

01:02:06.700 --> 01:02:10.300

Phil: Well, whatever it is, it is, it's happening, whether it's unfortunate or not.

01:02:10.720 --> 01:02:15.640

Phil: But I was just thinking last night about how Australians used to be notorious for uptalking.

01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:22.680

Phil: And now we're not famous for uptalking, where we increase our inflection toward the end of a sentence.

01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:23.360

Tom: Yes.

01:02:24.080 --> 01:02:27.740

Phil: That was something that Australians were known for as recently as the 90s.

01:02:28.140 --> 01:02:30.080

Phil: And it's not something that you see very much.

01:02:31.100 --> 01:02:38.300

Phil: And uptalking has become, you know, another thing amongst different cultures.

01:02:38.740 --> 01:02:39.580

Phil: So, okay.

01:02:39.600 --> 01:02:42.320

Phil: Well, thank you very much for introducing Sky Children of Light.

01:02:42.340 --> 01:02:42.960

Phil: I will wait.

01:02:43.060 --> 01:02:52.340

Phil: And I do promise you, the day it comes out, even if it's like a $60 full price game, I will definitely be getting it on the Switch and hopefully interacting with you on it.

01:02:53.660 --> 01:02:56.200

Phil: So you've definitely sold a lot of this on it.

01:02:57.600 --> 01:03:00.060

Phil: Did you want to get into the game that we've both been playing?

01:03:00.640 --> 01:03:03.140

Phil: And that is Night in the Woods.

01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:05.000

Tom: Let's do it.

01:03:05.520 --> 01:03:13.620

Phil: Yeah, I do want to say, if we can probably just drop the meta around this, I'd like to talk just about the game and not what has happened.

01:03:14.380 --> 01:03:15.680

Phil: And if we do, I'd like to...

01:03:15.700 --> 01:03:31.220

Tom: We're ignoring the most important aspect of this, which is that we are playing this from God's gift to man, the second coming of Christ himself, that was the itch.io bundle.

01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:35.700

Phil: Yeah, and the tattoo is only still slightly hurting.

01:03:36.700 --> 01:03:49.160

Phil: I was out in the sun today, and my itch.io tattoo is still sore, but it's still a small price to pay for what was an extremely generous sale for a cause.

01:03:49.180 --> 01:03:50.800

Phil: I'm not quite sure what they were doing.

01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:57.260

Tom: It's months later, and I am still flabbergasted, but I go to sleep on many nights just in awe.

01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:08.940

Phil: You've got to tell me, how the F do you find, after the show, tell me how the F do you actually find the games that you bought, because it's becoming increasingly more difficult for me to go back and find it.

01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:10.860

Phil: So you can tell me about that later.

01:04:11.240 --> 01:04:13.020

Phil: It's kind of like a monkey poor situation.

01:04:13.040 --> 01:04:17.320

Phil: I know I have these 5,000 games out there that I paid $5 for, but I can't access them.

01:04:18.200 --> 01:04:23.140

Phil: But I got to tell you, I never would have played Night in the Woods, if not for that itch.io sale.

01:04:25.180 --> 01:04:39.180

Phil: Now, there's something that's happened subsequent to the game, and we may as well just say it, that basically one of the creators of the game committed suicide because of a Me Too allegation from Zoe Quinn and...

01:04:39.200 --> 01:04:44.480

Tom: Well, I don't know if he committed suicide because of the allegation, but the two were around the same time.

01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:47.200

Phil: They were, in fact, very close.

01:04:47.540 --> 01:04:55.040

Phil: And also the allegation of a co-writer or co-developer of the game.

01:04:55.080 --> 01:04:56.440

Phil: Now, this is a game that was originally...

01:04:56.460 --> 01:04:58.620

Tom: I think it was a co-developer on a new project, wasn't it?

01:04:59.140 --> 01:05:00.600

Phil: No, it was one of the...

01:05:00.680 --> 01:05:05.980

Phil: Yeah, so it was a musician of the game.

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:06.860

Phil: So the game we're talking about...

01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:12.720

Tom: The game was his idea, and he was the composer and programmer for it as well.

01:05:14.720 --> 01:05:15.240

Phil: That's right.

01:05:15.260 --> 01:05:21.240

Phil: And then there was two co-writers, Bethany Hockenberry and Scott Benson.

01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:23.340

Tom: Well, I believe they were the writers.

01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:25.340

Tom: He had the idea but did not write it.

01:05:25.900 --> 01:05:32.440

Phil: Yep, and then Alec Holowka did predominantly the music.

01:05:32.740 --> 01:05:34.480

Phil: And the programming.

01:05:34.640 --> 01:05:36.680

Phil: Yeah, and the programming, very important.

01:05:36.700 --> 01:05:41.360

Phil: And a separate company did the sound design, which is going to be important when we talk about the review.

01:05:41.380 --> 01:05:42.960

Phil: So the game we're talking about is Night in the Woods.

01:05:43.460 --> 01:05:45.580

Phil: It's probably available on everything at this stage.

01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:48.260

Phil: How would you describe the art style?

01:05:50.520 --> 01:05:52.040

Phil: Kind of that South Park...

01:05:52.060 --> 01:05:56.580

Phil: Well, it's kind of that South Park cutout paper type thing, really.

01:05:57.080 --> 01:06:00.500

Phil: Or a marionette style, I guess would be a good way to describe it.

01:06:01.200 --> 01:06:05.820

Tom: I think it's definitely not in a puppet style.

01:06:06.040 --> 01:06:09.620

Tom: I would describe it as cartoon or webcomic.

01:06:09.640 --> 01:06:13.100

Tom: They don't really look or move like puppets.

01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:25.980

Tom: Maybe South Park you could compare it to them, but the limb animation is much more complicated than something like South Park and more dynamic as well.

01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:27.520

Phil: Oh, it's amazing.

01:06:28.160 --> 01:06:30.000

Phil: The animation in this game is amazing.

01:06:30.020 --> 01:06:33.240

Phil: So in any case, I guess it's a single person adventure game.

01:06:33.260 --> 01:06:38.800

Tom: But it is a flat two-dimensional style in silhouette, is I think what you were trying to get at.

01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:40.080

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

01:06:40.300 --> 01:06:40.800

Phil: Thank you.

01:06:40.940 --> 01:06:46.400

Phil: And you're always so much better at describing the visual form than I am.

01:06:47.220 --> 01:06:48.440

Tom: As well as everything else.

01:06:48.980 --> 01:07:00.300

Phil: I remember back to me asking you about, I think it was over the Okami or Mad World, and you pointed out to me that it was a Japanese woodcut style, which is exactly right.

01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:04.380

Phil: So Night in the Woods, I played it on PC as did you.

01:07:04.420 --> 01:07:07.820

Phil: I used an Xbox 360 controller to play.

01:07:07.860 --> 01:07:09.620

Phil: Did you use a controller or a keyboard?

01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:14.800

Tom: I used a combination of both, depending on whether I was eating breakfast while playing it or not.

01:07:15.520 --> 01:07:21.280

Phil: Certainly to get through the copious amounts of dialogue, I leaned on the space bar quite a bit.

01:07:21.560 --> 01:07:37.240

Phil: It is a one-person adventure game, where you play as a cat, female cat named May, M-A-E, who has dropped out of college, much to the chagrin of her parents, because she was the first in her family to go to university.

01:07:37.860 --> 01:07:46.960

Phil: And she's come back to the small town, I forget the name of it, but she's come back to the small town and basically found that...

01:07:46.980 --> 01:07:50.400

Tom: Well, the real world setting is Pennsylvania.

01:07:50.420 --> 01:07:54.100

Tom: I'm not sure if it's referred to as Pennsylvania in the game or not.

01:07:54.100 --> 01:07:55.140

Tom: I think it probably isn't.

01:07:55.260 --> 01:08:00.980

Tom: But it is set in a declining town in Pennsylvania.

01:08:01.580 --> 01:08:03.760

Phil: Called Possum Falls, I believe.

01:08:04.180 --> 01:08:04.680

Phil: Is that right?

01:08:04.940 --> 01:08:05.660

Tom: That sounds right.

01:08:06.160 --> 01:08:07.620

Tom: Or is it Possum Springs?

01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:09.300

Phil: Well, you'll find out.

01:08:09.460 --> 01:08:12.260

Tom: It's some sort of possum-related water.

01:08:12.520 --> 01:08:13.600

Phil: Body of water.

01:08:14.080 --> 01:08:17.680

Phil: So she comes back and she finds that things aren't quite the same.

01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:20.040

Phil: And as the old saying goes, you can never go home.

01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:24.140

Phil: Her friends have moved on in terms of their own development.

01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:27.100

Phil: Things have happened in their lives that have made them change.

01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:39.120

Phil: And you come back, I'm going to say, as a fairly immature person with didactic views, and you hate your parents and all.

01:08:39.140 --> 01:08:53.580

Phil: You don't hate them, but you've got very articulated views that are very definite and binary about things, which tends to piss off your friends, like your alligator friend Bee, who has had to go through a lot of stuff.

01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:55.420

Tom: I would describe him more so as naive.

01:08:56.380 --> 01:08:57.180

Phil: Naive, yeah.

01:08:57.320 --> 01:08:59.380

Tom: And lacking in ideas on things.

01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:00.940

Phil: Yeah.

01:09:00.960 --> 01:09:04.560

Phil: And look, I don't know how long the game took to play.

01:09:04.580 --> 01:09:07.900

Phil: I'm going to guess I probably spent at least 10 hours with it.

01:09:09.040 --> 01:09:12.500

Phil: The game has essentially three chapters and an epilogue.

01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:13.660

Tom: I think four chapters.

01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:14.960

Phil: Yeah.

01:09:15.060 --> 01:09:15.780

Tom: And an epilogue.

01:09:16.060 --> 01:09:18.400

Phil: But the fourth chapter is kind of slight, really.

01:09:20.100 --> 01:09:21.000

Tom: The first is two.

01:09:21.900 --> 01:09:22.540

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:23.420

Phil: Yes, true.

01:09:23.700 --> 01:09:26.160

Phil: So I've probably described enough about it.

01:09:28.100 --> 01:09:29.700

Phil: I've got a lot of praise for the game.

01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:32.140

Phil: I'd like to hear what your impressions were.

01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:36.000

Tom: Well, I want to begin with some definitional questions for you.

01:09:36.740 --> 01:09:39.200

Tom: Can this be classified as a walking simulator?

01:09:40.820 --> 01:09:41.180

Phil: No.

01:09:42.100 --> 01:09:43.620

Tom: Is that because you can jump in it?

01:09:44.440 --> 01:09:45.180

Phil: You can jump.

01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:47.120

Phil: There's mini games.

01:09:48.060 --> 01:09:49.740

Phil: There's lots and lots of side quests.

01:09:49.760 --> 01:09:51.980

Tom: I think some walking simulators have mini games.

01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:57.720

Phil: Some may, but there's a lot of side story in this one, a lot of side games.

01:09:58.340 --> 01:10:19.100

Tom: I think that there is a 2D bias at work here, because if you take, for instance, Tacoma, that is everyone would call a walking simulator, but there is a lot of the sides, not a lot, but there is certainly some side stuff in that you can miss, and there is technically puzzle solving in that as well.

01:10:20.220 --> 01:10:21.940

Phil: Well, there's puzzle solving in this.

01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:23.820

Phil: There's also platforming elements in this.

01:10:24.340 --> 01:10:35.480

Tom: I think that would be the best argument against it, and not because there's platforming elements in it, because they are very simple, but because when you were jumping, you move faster.

01:10:36.320 --> 01:10:46.000

Tom: So I'm thinking perhaps a walking simulator should be defined as being based on the fact that you can only move at one speed throughout the whole game.

01:10:46.400 --> 01:10:47.700

Phil: Yep, I agree with that.

01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:48.960

Phil: We'll write that down in the rule book.

01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.160

Tom: Now here's the next question.

01:10:51.200 --> 01:11:01.780

Tom: Is it an anti-work simulator or an unemployment simulator, which arguably should be a subgenre of working simulator?

01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:06.680

Phil: I find that interesting, an anti-work simulator.

01:11:07.020 --> 01:11:17.600

Phil: When I was a young man walking through the streets of Brisbane with my camera that I had overpaid for, I saw a poster which I looked at just a few days ago because I took a photo of it.

01:11:17.660 --> 01:11:24.460

Phil: And the poster just basically had an typewritten font blown up and magnified, Say No to Work.

01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:30.560

Phil: And actually it said, Live your own life, say no to work.

01:11:30.580 --> 01:11:35.840

Phil: And it was like the Brisbane Anti-Employment Union or something.

01:11:36.940 --> 01:11:47.140

Phil: Which in the late 80s, early 90s, I think that was a pretty, you know, like these days, that would be de jure, you know, when you've got your universal basic income and things like that.

01:11:48.120 --> 01:11:53.180

Tom: So it would be de jure in Portugal and very few other places.

01:11:53.540 --> 01:11:54.200

Phil: That's right.

01:11:55.660 --> 01:11:59.300

Phil: So, but even so, like, is this an anti-work simulator?

01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:04.320

Tom: I don't mean anti-work in the sense that it is taking a position against work.

01:12:04.780 --> 01:12:05.620

Phil: Because it is.

01:12:06.160 --> 01:12:27.740

Tom: If you think about it structurally, it is very similar to many work simulators where the gameplay sections are divided up into days, and the flow of the gameplay is based on redoing the same thing in slightly different rays and that building up to a certain climax in each of those areas.

01:12:29.200 --> 01:12:43.100

Phil: Oh yeah, but at the same time, if you look at the message of the game, your friends work in these horrible jobs that they hate or resent or don't take seriously, and you walk around willy-nilly without a job.

01:12:44.980 --> 01:12:50.720

Tom: Well, that's half of the theme, work-related themes, I would say, but we're just looking at this as...

01:12:50.740 --> 01:12:51.460

Phil: Look at your dad.

01:12:51.540 --> 01:12:52.560

Phil: Look at May's dad.

01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:55.400

Tom: We'll get to that in a minute when we get into more detail on the story.

01:12:55.420 --> 01:13:05.660

Tom: I'm just saying from a gameplay perspective, is this not essentially a work simulator although you are unemployed?

01:13:06.700 --> 01:13:10.820

Phil: I would say no, because of the wealth of side stories in it.

01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:14.720

Phil: I think in a work simulator, you've basically got no choice but to go through the procedural.

01:13:14.740 --> 01:13:20.420

Tom: I think you're forgetting in papers, please, that had numerous side stories with the characters.

01:13:20.860 --> 01:13:22.240

Phil: But no side activities.

01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:25.780

Phil: Like, you could not go to the office, you know?

01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:28.060

Phil: I'm going to have to think about it.

01:13:28.080 --> 01:13:32.280

Tom: But you could not do certain things in it.

01:13:32.820 --> 01:13:33.460

Phil: That's true.

01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:35.140

Tom: Which directly affected side stories.

01:13:35.300 --> 01:13:38.340

Tom: It's the same in Death and Taxes.

01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:50.720

Tom: And while you again have to go to the desk in Death and Taxes, for instance, you can literally do nothing on a day and proceed.

01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:55.420

Tom: In this, most days end with you doing band practice.

01:13:55.640 --> 01:14:01.200

Tom: So you can literally just walk from her house to band practice and back and call it a day.

01:14:01.220 --> 01:14:05.460

Phil: Yeah, and how much of the side stuff did you get into?

01:14:05.860 --> 01:14:08.440

Tom: I did as much of it as I could.

01:14:09.420 --> 01:14:21.140

Tom: Judging by having not unlocked only three concept art in the extras menu, I assume, I did the vast majority of it.

01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:39.960

Phil: I'm going to just say that there is a section, you wake up in your room every day, you check your computer, as you do, for messages from your friends, and then you also have the choice, when you're in the room, to play a Guitar Hero, Note Freeway style bass guitar game.

01:14:40.180 --> 01:14:42.360

Phil: And at first I thought, oh, this is kind of interesting.

01:14:42.400 --> 01:14:43.140

Phil: Yeah, look at that.

01:14:43.160 --> 01:14:44.860

Phil: They've introduced this into the game.

01:14:45.820 --> 01:14:50.960

Phil: It's going to be a bit of a gimmick, but it was actually good.

01:14:51.820 --> 01:15:03.020

Tom: You could actually play that following the rhythm of the song rather than the onscreen visual prompts, which is better than a lot of actual rhythm games.

01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:11.220

Phil: Yeah, but Guitar Hero, at least with Guitar Hero, because I didn't play rock band, with Guitar Hero, you didn't really need to follow the note highway.

01:15:11.240 --> 01:15:15.620

Tom: But those are the height of the genre.

01:15:16.260 --> 01:15:19.000

Tom: There are many rhythm games outside of those two.

01:15:19.380 --> 01:15:20.060

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

01:15:20.120 --> 01:15:27.420

Phil: And the thing that I enjoyed about it is if you held a note, like it had a different sound to it, it was like you were holding the note.

01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:33.460

Phil: And at first you're just tap tapping away, and it sounds like crap, but then you realize you can actually hold notes as you play the bass.

01:15:34.460 --> 01:15:40.240

Phil: My favorite song, which is still ringing around in my head, is the song called Die Anywhere Else.

01:15:41.020 --> 01:15:42.680

Phil: And I found myself...

01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:44.340

Phil: Wow, where'd that accent come from?

01:15:45.420 --> 01:15:54.860

Phil: I found myself just wanting to play and just wanting to practice just for the fun of learning that song and getting really good at it.

01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:56.420

Tom: That was the most difficult one, right?

01:15:56.440 --> 01:15:57.080

Tom: The last one?

01:15:58.600 --> 01:15:59.860

Phil: No, I don't think so.

01:15:59.880 --> 01:16:02.280

Phil: Die Anywhere Else is the second one.

01:16:02.300 --> 01:16:08.040

Tom: Yeah, because there were two that were extremely difficult, the second one and the last one that you learned.

01:16:08.060 --> 01:16:12.180

Phil: Yeah, and the last one was difficult, but Die Anywhere Else was the one that goes...

01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:15.460

Phil: Dum dum dum ba da dum.

01:16:17.580 --> 01:16:18.980

Phil: If you can remember that.

01:16:19.040 --> 01:16:20.240

Phil: Yep.

01:16:20.240 --> 01:16:30.320

Phil: So I absolutely loved it, and I thought it was really, really good, which brings to point my favorite thing about this game was the sound in it.

01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:36.800

Phil: The music was very good, but the sound design was exceptional, and I've got to give them their credit.

01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:42.840

Phil: The name of the company that did sound design for this game is called the company A Shell in the Pit.

01:16:43.360 --> 01:16:57.580

Phil: And so while the departed Alec Holocroix did the music, the sound design in this game, I thought was on a level that I haven't been able to appreciate since a game like, I don't know, Deep Space.

01:16:58.560 --> 01:16:59.640

Phil: Dead Space, rather.

01:17:00.740 --> 01:17:05.960

Phil: I know that you'll remind me that there's other games that have had just as good sound design, if not better, since then.

01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:12.660

Phil: But listening to this game, even on speakers, not with headphones, I thought it was brilliant.

01:17:13.040 --> 01:17:15.420

Phil: I absolutely loved the sound design in this game.

01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:22.380

Phil: And I also loved the music and the way that music was used, which would have been a part of the commission for the sound design company.

01:17:23.980 --> 01:17:24.920

Phil: Do you share that view?

01:17:25.300 --> 01:17:25.900

Tom: Absolutely.

01:17:25.920 --> 01:17:58.860

Tom: And I think I appreciated the music at the same level of the sound design, not just in how it was used, but the amount that it added to both the narrative in terms of the contributing to the emotional scenes in the story and also the setting, I thought, really carried it on a level well above both the immediate quality of the dialogue.

01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:00.720

Tom: There's a lot to like about the dialogue.

01:18:01.620 --> 01:18:19.460

Tom: This isn't meant to be suggesting that dialogue is bad particularly, but the main contributing driving force behind the emotion in the game was, I think, both the music as well as the use of the music.

01:18:19.500 --> 01:18:23.420

Tom: And the breadth of the music was incredible too.

01:18:23.440 --> 01:18:29.500

Tom: It covered a huge amount of different styles.

01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:36.900

Tom: And as far as the sound design was concerned, they always picked something out that fitted perfectly.

01:18:38.060 --> 01:18:46.420

Phil: And without spoilers, but in the crescendo of the plot of the game, the sound was used so wonderfully.

01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:48.320

Phil: I mean, it was great.

01:18:48.540 --> 01:18:58.520

Phil: They had some shock jumps or monster closet moments in that game that were tremendous, and the sound brought it all to life.

01:19:00.080 --> 01:19:02.920

Phil: It was never distracting other than how great it was.

01:19:03.400 --> 01:19:07.820

Phil: I just could not get over how good the sound design and music was in this game.

01:19:08.460 --> 01:19:12.920

Phil: And to me, I said I wasn't going to get meta about this, but to me, that's one of the things.

01:19:12.940 --> 01:19:16.380

Phil: I look at this guy that killed himself.

01:19:16.400 --> 01:19:20.000

Phil: I'm like, well, we're not going to get that music anymore.

01:19:21.940 --> 01:19:31.640

Phil: I'm really going to look into A Shell in the Pit as a company to see what other sound design they've done because it's obviously driven by someone with a distinct passion and talent.

01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:33.320

Phil: Now, we're two podcasters.

01:19:33.640 --> 01:19:40.000

Phil: We're doing a podcast because we love audio way before we started this podcast.

01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:46.460

Phil: So you can probably see why we'd be hung up on how good it is and giving them full credit for it.

01:19:47.060 --> 01:19:55.560

Phil: The benefit is, however, the writing, you know, those people are still around, so they'll go on to do great work, I hope and believe.

01:19:55.580 --> 01:20:03.760

Phil: And like you said, the dialogue was really quite natural, but never got bogged down.

01:20:05.220 --> 01:20:13.000

Phil: I felt like it was a way that friends communicate and friends and parents in a healthy relationship talk to each other.

01:20:14.060 --> 01:20:20.460

Tom: I think it basically pulled off what they were attempting to do in Life is Strange, essentially.

01:20:22.080 --> 01:20:29.060

Tom: Which is develop a natural and believable style of banter between friends.

01:20:30.180 --> 01:20:39.480

Phil: And I think Life is Strange 1 works, and I heard this, this isn't my own thought, but I heard this from someone this week on another podcast.

01:20:40.060 --> 01:20:43.980

Phil: The reason why the dialogue works in Life is Strange is the teenage setting.

01:20:44.880 --> 01:20:50.480

Tom: Well, they claim it's meant to be awkward in the way that it is awkward for that reason.

01:20:51.420 --> 01:20:58.620

Tom: And they consulted experts on how teenagers talk and that sort of thing.

01:20:59.180 --> 01:21:46.300

Tom: But I do think having played both Remember Me and Vampyr, that that is something of an excuse, because while people will highlight things like Haller being said in Life is Strange, and Haller is used, interestingly, in Night in the Woods as well, once people highlight things like that, the problem with the dialogue in Life is Strange was, I would suggest mainly that it was French people writing English, which resulted in some weird and unnatural rather than awkward syntaxes and deliveries, because that's there in all their games.

01:21:47.060 --> 01:21:57.540

Tom: And while obviously it's not necessarily translated into English by those writers, it's initially written in French, which obviously is likely to make a difference.

01:21:57.540 --> 01:22:02.560

Tom: And if they were originally writing in English, which they may well be, then the same issue applies.

01:22:03.160 --> 01:22:08.280

Phil: Jason, Jason, Jason, Jason.

01:22:08.300 --> 01:22:11.460

Phil: Yeah, and that's the problem with French people.

01:22:11.460 --> 01:22:15.180

Tom: That's due to the absurdist genius of David Cage.

01:22:15.200 --> 01:22:16.120

Tom: Thank you very much.

01:22:16.540 --> 01:22:18.120

Phil: David Cargay, yeah.

01:22:18.700 --> 01:22:23.680

Phil: And I've got to say, the dialogue with the mother reminded me of Earthbound.

01:22:23.700 --> 01:22:30.340

Phil: I wrote down in my notes, wonderful, in italics and an exclamation mark.

01:22:30.400 --> 01:22:34.700

Phil: I thought the dialogue between May and her parents was just great.

01:22:35.120 --> 01:22:36.700

Phil: I loved every aspect of it.

01:22:37.960 --> 01:22:48.860

Tom: And the other reason that the dialogue worked so well is, again, compared to something like Life is Strange, is there was a consistent or thorial voice.

01:22:48.940 --> 01:23:06.700

Tom: It was not written as if it was a script in the sense of a film, which generally avoid or thorial voice, but of course the best film writing always has a strong or thorial voice, which is even apparent in something like Tarantino.

01:23:07.040 --> 01:23:19.860

Tom: Tarantino, for instance, always is praised due to his interesting dialogue and characters, but basically all Tarantino characters talk identically within films.

01:23:20.620 --> 01:23:24.840

Tom: In different films, there's different styles of talking, but for the most part, there's a really strong or thorial voice.

01:23:25.660 --> 01:23:54.940

Tom: And to find a balance between going beyond something like Tarantino, between having characters talk in a recognizable way, like you'll easily be able to tell if Bia is talking compared to Greg, as the most obvious example, but simultaneously you'll see that throughout that, there's always little beats that connect them all through things like the way they repeat certain things and so on.

01:23:54.960 --> 01:24:14.120

Tom: Which contributes one, to the sense of shared banter, but two, is a grounding aspect of authorial voice that allows everything to flow consistently throughout the dialogue, regardless of what is happening in terms of the emotional quality to the scene.

01:24:14.900 --> 01:24:21.820

Phil: So I've set up that May is coming back to a small town and things aren't what she remembered and aren't what she thought that things were.

01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:27.920

Phil: We should say that the backdrop for the whole game is basically a murder mystery.

01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:32.920

Tom: One last thing I want to add before we move on from the areas we've been talking about.

01:24:32.940 --> 01:24:40.320

Tom: We've mentioned the animation and that it was great, but just an example of why it's so great is, as we said, the limb animation.

01:24:40.340 --> 01:24:56.880

Tom: Everything is, for the most part, really static, but as you're running along jumping, for instance, there's this wonderful elasticity to May's limbs as she jumps, floats in the air and lands in several different stages.

01:24:57.080 --> 01:25:03.760

Tom: In scenes where they're talking, they'll just be having their mouths open and close in a simple manner.

01:25:04.060 --> 01:25:13.200

Tom: Then something exciting happens, and all of a sudden their arms will be flaming in a hilariously elastic manner.

01:25:13.280 --> 01:25:19.720

Tom: The amount that they do with little things, both in terms of the writing and the animation, is just amazing.

01:25:20.240 --> 01:25:38.520

Phil: It's brilliant, and my favorite, which I took many screenshots during this game, but the only time I actually used the Windows Xbox Game video capture, and I've got to say the whole Xbox Games thing where you press the start button and you get all that overlay is brilliant as well.

01:25:39.280 --> 01:25:43.900

Phil: But the dancing, when she danced, I don't know if you remember that.

01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:44.560

Tom: At the nightclub.

01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:45.300

Phil: Yes.

01:25:45.980 --> 01:25:46.880

Tom: Yeah, that was amazing.

01:25:47.420 --> 01:25:54.740

Phil: And you move, based on what you did with the two analog sticks, it was just, I could have done that for hours and hours and hours.

01:25:54.740 --> 01:26:03.740

Phil: And it reminded me how ridiculous dance is and how social dance is and how I hate social dance, and this is the reason why, but I couldn't stop doing it.

01:26:04.180 --> 01:26:08.860

Phil: She just, the arm movements and the leg movements were absolutely brilliant.

01:26:09.240 --> 01:26:11.640

Phil: I completely loved the animation in this game.

01:26:11.660 --> 01:26:14.720

Phil: And when you're doing the platforming in the dream sequences.

01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:30.940

Phil: So the game basically, yeah, you wake up every day, you check your email, you can do side stories, you go hang out with your friends, you can have band practice, but each chapter or each day ends with a dream sequence, which is a very involved platforming segment.

01:26:30.940 --> 01:26:34.600

Tom: And that has some of the greatest sound design.

01:26:35.120 --> 01:26:35.480

Phil: Yes.

01:26:35.560 --> 01:26:49.240

Tom: When you're lighting the lamps, it's amazingly both jarring and satisfying at once, and that fits perfectly the dark yet completely intriguing atmosphere of the dreams.

01:26:49.620 --> 01:27:12.060

Tom: And the lamp lighting actually reminds me, one of the best things about Sky, and it's on a whole other level to Journey, which had incredible sound design, is the sound when you light candles in Sky, which is what much of the gameplay is based on, is just so satisfying, even when you've been playing it for a year.

01:27:12.080 --> 01:27:13.240

Tom: And it reminds me of that.

01:27:13.260 --> 01:27:22.600

Tom: It's much more abrasive, which makes sense given the setting, but it's the same sort of satisfying feeling of striking a match.

01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:28.420

Phil: And I should remind everyone, the game we're talking about is Night in the Woods, which is on pretty much everything.

01:27:28.440 --> 01:27:29.580

Phil: I don't think it's on Switch.

01:27:31.900 --> 01:27:39.780

Phil: So each night you have these nightmares, which is an extreme platforming element, which I think owes a lot to Inside or Limbo.

01:27:39.800 --> 01:27:48.120

Phil: And even though I'd criticize the floaty platforming in Little Big Planet, in this game it just fits perfectly.

01:27:48.180 --> 01:27:55.140

Phil: And it's not particularly floaty, because when you want an action, it actually sticks to it, despite the animation of the character.

01:27:55.160 --> 01:28:05.640

Tom: Well, it's not floaty so much because it has a double jump mechanic, which is not double jump, but every third jump you make.

01:28:05.660 --> 01:28:12.320

Tom: So if you jump three times in a row, the third jump will go about twice the distance and twice the height.

01:28:13.060 --> 01:28:17.780

Tom: So when you're doing that, you obviously have a plan in what you want to do.

01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:21.600

Tom: It's not just the standard jumping easy bits.

01:28:22.420 --> 01:28:37.260

Tom: So I think when you have floating platforming, as long as you play the game with a reasonable amount of advanced planning, floaty platforming mechanics work, which I think they do in Little Big Planet if you take that into account.

01:28:37.280 --> 01:28:43.440

Tom: But if you try and play it like a standard non-floaty platformer, then you run into issues.

01:28:43.460 --> 01:28:57.420

Tom: But because it is on the third jump that this occurs, it means automatically that the player is forced to plan in advance in more detail what they're doing than in a non-floaty platformer.

01:28:59.300 --> 01:29:15.400

Phil: And without spoiling anything, basically, you're trying to solve this murder mystery and the dark side of your town, which I'm not going to spoil here, but I think culminates in basically turning the dream sequences into an actual reality.

01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:31.220

Phil: So as may you're suffering these dreams and headaches and things like that, and then toward the end of the game, those things actually turn into a reality that your friends are experiencing as well as you reach the culmination of the plot reveal.

01:29:32.580 --> 01:29:41.400

Phil: I thought that was all done extremely well, though the one criticism I'll say is that I didn't find the epilogue to be pleasing at all.

01:29:43.020 --> 01:29:45.360

Phil: I didn't like the epilogue at all.

01:29:45.380 --> 01:29:54.000

Phil: I thought the game ended at quite a good point, and that if you were going to have an end scene, it probably could have been like a two minute thing.

01:29:54.140 --> 01:30:00.340

Phil: And I felt that the epilogue let the rest of the game down, though it wouldn't influence my total view of the game.

01:30:01.580 --> 01:30:06.720

Tom: I think it definitely felt from the main plot side of things unnecessary.

01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:18.900

Tom: I think it was there just for the resolution to some of the side things, like the Miracle Rats subplot, for example.

01:30:20.540 --> 01:30:38.720

Tom: And I think you don't really need to give it much more thought than that because while there is some commentary on the main story and interaction with main characters, it really does not add anything that was not already said essentially in the final chapter itself.

01:30:39.560 --> 01:30:40.740

Phil: That's right, yeah.

01:30:41.240 --> 01:30:55.620

Tom: So I think that was more so a slightly awkward pacing thing that they ran into where they couldn't figure out how to shove the conclusion to some of the side stuff into the final day.

01:30:56.140 --> 01:30:58.660

Phil: Right, awkward is the best description of it.

01:30:59.940 --> 01:31:01.720

Phil: So if you just...

01:31:01.780 --> 01:31:04.860

Phil: At this point, I'm just happy to listen to any impressions you have.

01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:06.280

Phil: I've basically said everything I need to say.

01:31:06.300 --> 01:31:19.260

Tom: Well, we will have to go into spoiler territory in the end of the impressions, but two things before we get to that that I think we don't need to mention.

01:31:19.280 --> 01:31:30.460

Tom: The first is, and I'm not sure if I've said this before, but we talked about how much the game makes out of the simplicity of the animation and the writing.

01:31:31.400 --> 01:32:02.600

Tom: It is an amazing testament to the sound design and the music that even with such incredible visual design and incredible writing, the music and the sound design still stands out as driving the entire game essentially, which is just extraordinary given how good and how much is done with fine details in the writing and in the visual design.

01:32:03.260 --> 01:32:03.700

Phil: Indeed.

01:32:05.140 --> 01:32:16.900

Tom: And the other thing that I think stood out about the story, which I think we don't need to go into spoilers to talk about, is the setting is amazing.

01:32:17.020 --> 01:32:42.980

Tom: And if you think about it, it is a setting that is rather ignored, perhaps even taboo in other mediums, because it is set in a Pennsylvania mining town that has gone into industrial decline with the mining no longer driving the economy of the town.

01:32:43.440 --> 01:33:03.160

Tom: And all that is left there for the people is shitty retail jobs that offer no sense of community, because the community has died with the mines, because the community of the place was based on the working class connections between unions and so forth.

01:33:03.580 --> 01:33:22.520

Tom: I mean, this, for anyone who is interested in this, who is interested in American politics or politics in general, should be obviously very relevant to the present state of politics, the world over, and particularly in America with their last election result.

01:33:22.980 --> 01:33:45.700

Tom: So it's fascinating seeing this being depicted in a game and on top of that, not only being depicted in a game, in any medium really, because while you will get references to this, there really aren't many stories in any medium that are directly tackling this sort of thing that I can think of anyway.

01:33:45.820 --> 01:33:48.180

Tom: You may have come across more than I have.

01:33:49.080 --> 01:33:58.960

Phil: Well, I think that, you know, you don't see Pennsylvania and these, you know, rust belt states featured as a location for many video games.

01:34:00.100 --> 01:34:01.560

Phil: Now, when did this game come out?

01:34:02.500 --> 01:34:06.580

Phil: Obviously, it's come out since the election, or the last federal election.

01:34:07.660 --> 01:34:09.120

Phil: Pennsylvania went to Trump.

01:34:09.700 --> 01:34:12.340

Phil: Biden and Trump are both there campaigning today as it is.

01:34:12.360 --> 01:34:13.280

Tom: 2017.

01:34:13.300 --> 01:34:14.080

Phil: Yeah, 2017.

01:34:14.100 --> 01:34:17.500

Tom: So it would have been in development potentially before then.

01:34:17.520 --> 01:34:22.320

Phil: Yeah, so basically the whole concept is that they are...

01:34:22.340 --> 01:34:24.980

Tom: Development began in 2013.

01:34:26.720 --> 01:34:31.320

Phil: But, I mean, that just really underscores the whole position that Trump got elected.

01:34:31.580 --> 01:34:41.100

Phil: We don't want to get into politics, but Trump got elected basically because there's a whole massive group of people who feel like they've been forgotten in the United States because of the change from...

01:34:41.120 --> 01:34:43.740

Tom: I believe they're known colloquially as the deplorables.

01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:46.900

Phil: Well, that's what Hillary referred to them as, yeah.

01:34:47.320 --> 01:34:50.460

Phil: So basically that's the environment in which you're working.

01:34:50.700 --> 01:34:57.700

Phil: This has been something that's covered in other genres such as the Deer Hunter, I would say, the movie from the 1970s.

01:34:57.720 --> 01:34:58.760

Tom: Yeah, but that's from the 70s.

01:34:58.780 --> 01:35:15.860

Tom: I'm saying this is a fascinating thing as a contemporary work of art because as it is tremendously relevant today, it is also a little bit taboo in a sense.

01:35:16.480 --> 01:35:24.380

Phil: Yeah, but it's raw and it's real and I think that the major plot of the game requires it.

01:35:26.260 --> 01:35:28.520

Tom: Well, the plot of the game is about that.

01:35:29.540 --> 01:35:48.220

Tom: It is thematically about mental illness, yes, and the disaffection of many young adults in the education system, but it always links these things to its economic themes.

01:35:49.460 --> 01:35:52.060

Tom: So it is the main theme of the game.

01:35:52.820 --> 01:35:53.700

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:35:54.140 --> 01:36:13.140

Tom: And this is a theme, at least the political results of this sort of thing, is a theme that is at the forefront of many people's minds today, but the potential causations of that is not really covered in much art or media in general.

01:36:13.160 --> 01:36:25.580

Tom: So it really stands out, and it is handled amazingly well, because even the murder cult, potential murder cult...

01:36:26.580 --> 01:36:27.760

Tom: Yeah, we're now getting to spoilers.

01:36:27.940 --> 01:36:37.580

Phil: But back to your point there too, I think that's the whole thing about Brexit as well, is that people feeling that they've been left behind or left out, and that people aren't worried about them.

01:36:38.160 --> 01:36:52.980

Phil: So as we get into the spoilers here, there is a murder cult, and much like ICO, I imagine, where they feel that they must sacrifice people's real lives in order for the benefit of the greater community.

01:36:53.200 --> 01:36:54.040

Phil: Yep.

01:36:54.240 --> 01:37:05.900

Phil: So basically, there's a whole bunch of hooded people, and I was expecting a KKK, and I say KKK because I can't actually say the words.

01:37:09.280 --> 01:37:16.580

Phil: Yeah, not for political reasons, but because of the other speech impediment that we've discussed before with me and you and O.

01:37:16.600 --> 01:37:19.340

Phil: I can't do it.

01:37:19.360 --> 01:37:42.440

Phil: So I was always expecting some sort of KKK type thing, but in fact, it's a union thing, and these people who have been dispossessed of their jobs feel that periodic human sacrifice is required to keep the township of Possum Springs going, and that's what they're doing.

01:37:42.940 --> 01:38:14.220

Tom: Which was a big relief to me that they managed to connect it to the themes of the game because when you approach it from the whole mental illness story of May and her nervous breakdowns and difficulties with coping with life, and also the metaphysical religious themes, and again, managing to work that into the economic commentary is just amazing.

01:38:14.240 --> 01:38:15.080

Phil: It was brilliant.

01:38:15.700 --> 01:38:21.120

Phil: I'm sorry I keep using that word, but it would have been so easy just to do a clan thing.

01:38:22.340 --> 01:38:24.500

Phil: It would have been so easy.

01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:48.580

Tom: If they did that, I would have hated it, because it would totally destroy any of the dramatic and thematic seriousness and emotional resonance of May's return from university and her attempt, yet inability, to cope with life, and her ongoing nervous breakdown that develops as the game goes on.

01:38:49.660 --> 01:39:08.620

Tom: If it made material her fears and anxieties as just some generic horror or uninteresting societal commentary that was not linked to the main non-mental illness theories of the game.

01:39:10.580 --> 01:39:15.500

Phil: The story is so multi-threaded, but simple at the same time.

01:39:15.520 --> 01:39:18.320

Phil: It's like a tapestry, but it's simple.

01:39:18.880 --> 01:39:31.220

Phil: And it really is so impressive that they were able to draw together all of these things, that the writers were able to draw all these things together before you even realize what's going on.

01:39:31.240 --> 01:39:32.180

Phil: And that's what's so good.

01:39:32.240 --> 01:39:39.120

Phil: Like with the sound design, the sound design is great and you notice it, in which point you should say, well, is it really great if you notice it?

01:39:39.540 --> 01:39:41.540

Phil: But with the writing, you don't notice it.

01:39:41.580 --> 01:39:42.660

Phil: It sneaks up on you.

01:39:42.920 --> 01:39:44.920

Phil: They're doing this throughout the game.

01:39:45.300 --> 01:39:46.120

Phil: They're building on it.

01:39:46.140 --> 01:39:52.860

Tom: You notice the dialogue, but you do not notice the important part of the writing, which is the themes and the narrative.

01:39:53.100 --> 01:39:54.860

Phil: Yeah, it's just exceptional.

01:39:55.000 --> 01:40:09.620

Tom: And the other amazing thing about it is, is the whole, after the unions have essentially capitulated, which I thought was another interest, unflinching and amazing depiction of it.

01:40:09.620 --> 01:40:19.360

Tom: Because it's throughout the whole, it's obviously very sympathetic to unions throughout the game, and at the end, and the working classes.

01:40:19.640 --> 01:40:30.500

Tom: But it does not in any way patronise them, or avoid the capitulation that occurred in places like Pennsylvania.

01:40:31.540 --> 01:40:49.620

Tom: And the metaphor of a murder cult it uses is one that is a popular and a reasonable argument about that style of politics, of essentially thinking about it as a human sacrifice and death cult.

01:40:51.560 --> 01:41:02.460

Tom: But it does that without at any point either patronising the death cult, or not treating them with compassion.

01:41:04.680 --> 01:41:18.060

Tom: And as people whose concerns should be listened to and considered, even if you find the expression of them to be despicable.

01:41:18.500 --> 01:41:31.420

Tom: Which I think is again, just amazing, and handled in a manner that is, would be impressive in any medium full stop.

01:41:32.740 --> 01:41:43.520

Phil: I've got to say, like when I think about that, and I think about capitulation and the union movement in the United States, capitulation is death for a union.

01:41:43.720 --> 01:41:54.400

Phil: And I saw this in 2013 with the grocery workers strike, where basically they did exactly what happened in this game, at Night in the Woods.

01:41:55.540 --> 01:42:07.080

Phil: The older union members basically, and I've seen this again and again and again in union movements, sacrificed the young, meaning the new people coming on, for the old.

01:42:07.160 --> 01:42:24.840

Phil: So basically the grocery union workers said, as long as you keep all our benefits intact, anyone hired after 2014, yeah, you can pay minimum wage and they won't get the pension subsidies or contributions that we get, as long as we're taken care of.

01:42:25.000 --> 01:42:34.900

Phil: And that is the selfishness that's seen in this game with these miners basically saying, well, we'll sacrifice the youth so long as we can keep the general good going.

01:42:35.100 --> 01:42:35.400

Tom: Yeah.

01:42:35.820 --> 01:42:42.420

Phil: And that might be painting with a very broad brush, but the union movement in the United States is essentially dead.

01:42:42.620 --> 01:42:43.120

Phil: It's gone.

01:42:43.220 --> 01:42:43.800

Phil: It's finished.

01:42:43.820 --> 01:42:46.140

Phil: There's no powerful unions in the United States.

01:42:46.540 --> 01:42:56.000

Phil: Whereas here in Australia, though they are weakening, we still have a pretty good union movement, though nowhere where it needs to be.

01:42:56.020 --> 01:43:03.640

Phil: And unfortunately, some of the strongest unions are those that are owned by the government, like, you know, teachers unions and nurses unions and things like that.

01:43:05.480 --> 01:43:09.220

Phil: So yeah, that's an interesting point about capitulation.

01:43:10.740 --> 01:43:16.880

Tom: And again, just another example of how amazing, amazingly written the game is.

01:43:17.200 --> 01:43:17.460

Phil: Yes.

01:43:20.040 --> 01:43:24.240

Tom: But I think that's probably all I have to say about it that I can think of.

01:43:25.080 --> 01:43:28.140

Phil: Now, obviously, like, I just wanted to talk to you.

01:43:28.740 --> 01:43:30.120

Tom: Oh, wait, no, I'm forgetting.

01:43:30.460 --> 01:43:40.480

Tom: So we mentioned the Guitar Hero minigame, which is a genuinely good, if not great rhythm game in a game.

01:43:41.520 --> 01:43:57.700

Tom: This also features a minigame called Demon Tower, which is a genuinely great 2D Zelda-style top-down action game in the vein of Titan Souls and Hyper Light Drifter.

01:43:57.700 --> 01:43:59.140

Tom: And it is as good.

01:43:59.340 --> 01:44:00.940

Tom: It's better than Hyper Light Drifter.

01:44:01.300 --> 01:44:04.400

Tom: And mechanically, it's arguably better than Titan Souls.

01:44:04.420 --> 01:44:11.300

Tom: I think the level design or rather boss design in Titan Souls is on another level.

01:44:11.860 --> 01:44:12.720

Tom: It's just amazing.

01:44:12.740 --> 01:44:15.240

Tom: It probably puts it slightly above Demon Tower.

01:44:15.540 --> 01:44:21.600

Tom: But mechanically, it feels so precise and satisfying.

01:44:21.620 --> 01:44:22.500

Tom: And it is so simple.

01:44:22.520 --> 01:44:27.200

Tom: You've essentially just got a dodge button and an attack button.

01:44:27.380 --> 01:44:29.440

Tom: And you've got bars of stamina.

01:44:29.440 --> 01:44:31.500

Tom: And when you dodge, it uses a bar of stamina.

01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:34.120

Tom: And when you attack, it uses a bar of stamina.

01:44:36.600 --> 01:44:38.220

Tom: And the levels are really simple.

01:44:38.240 --> 01:44:42.540

Tom: They're usually basically just a square block with sometimes some paths through it.

01:44:42.780 --> 01:44:45.420

Tom: And you have to find a room which has a key.

01:44:45.440 --> 01:44:46.140

Tom: You get the key.

01:44:46.340 --> 01:44:48.680

Tom: You can then go to the boss room and fight the boss.

01:44:49.560 --> 01:44:51.640

Tom: The bosses are pretty simple.

01:44:52.820 --> 01:44:57.580

Tom: But there are some interesting creative choices with them.

01:44:57.640 --> 01:45:01.200

Tom: For instance, one boss, as they're moving around the level, they're bleeding.

01:45:01.220 --> 01:45:03.980

Tom: And if you touch their blood, you take damage.

01:45:04.940 --> 01:45:11.920

Tom: So you have to figure out how to attack them without taking damage by walking in their blood.

01:45:12.360 --> 01:45:24.460

Tom: And as you're playing through the game, the difficulty increases not just with more types of enemies, each of which is really unique and interesting to figure out how to dodge.

01:45:25.620 --> 01:45:30.100

Tom: You also lose one of your bars of health, but you gain bars of stamina.

01:45:30.380 --> 01:45:45.520

Tom: So you become faster, sorry, you become better at attacking and better at dodging, but you die quicker, which creates this great dynamic as you're going along, where it really rewards skill, but punishes any mistake you make.

01:45:46.360 --> 01:46:01.940

Tom: So in this game, it doesn't just have a great rhythm mini game, it has a great indie 2D retro-style dungeon crawling game that is as good as the likes of Titan Souls and Hyper Light Drifter, among others.

01:46:03.080 --> 01:46:12.100

Phil: I think if we were to posthumously award a 2017 Gundy for Game of the Year, this would have to be it.

01:46:12.120 --> 01:46:18.720

Phil: I mean, Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey basically were the Game of the Year for 2017.

01:46:18.740 --> 01:46:20.580

Tom: What were our Games of the Year for 2017?

01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:22.560

Phil: Well, I don't know that we did it in 2017.

01:46:22.580 --> 01:46:23.620

Phil: We'd have to go back and look.

01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:28.840

Phil: But I think that this is really, with what you've said about this...

01:46:29.680 --> 01:46:32.020

Tom: this would get into the Games of the Decade.

01:46:32.380 --> 01:46:33.220

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

01:46:33.520 --> 01:46:35.080

Tom: Not just 2017.

01:46:35.100 --> 01:46:38.040

Tom: This would be in certainly my top ten.

01:46:38.440 --> 01:46:39.340

Phil: Oh, mine as well.

01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:41.980

Phil: And it'd be probably in the top five, I'd say.

01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:47.820

Phil: Maybe not, but yeah, it'd definitely be in my top ten of the 2010s.

01:46:49.220 --> 01:46:52.880

Phil: So with that, you've got your Diary of Destiny ready to go there?

01:46:53.860 --> 01:46:54.580

Tom: No, I don't.

01:46:54.700 --> 01:46:55.740

Phil: I will get one.

01:46:55.760 --> 01:46:56.760

Tom: You give your score.

01:46:56.780 --> 01:46:58.920

Phil: Well, we're going to close out this podcast now then.

01:47:00.020 --> 01:47:10.360

Phil: Tom's going to get his Diary of Destiny, but thank you for listening, and please go over to gameunder.net where you can read Tom's essay about sky, Children of Light, and some other stories that we've put up recently.

01:47:10.700 --> 01:47:15.000

Phil: But really, we're not a website with a podcast, we're a podcast with a website.

01:47:15.020 --> 01:47:21.160

Phil: So just like and subscribe us, and give us good reviews on Apple so that other listeners can find the show as well.

01:47:21.180 --> 01:47:22.320

Phil: And thank you for your support.

01:47:22.780 --> 01:47:24.900

Phil: I've noticed a pick up in numbers over the last few months.

01:47:26.160 --> 01:47:27.460

Phil: As we've been able to record.

01:47:27.480 --> 01:47:28.720

Tom: That means someone has listened.

01:47:29.200 --> 01:47:30.060

Phil: Yes, yeah.

01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:32.260

Phil: Not just me doing a sound check.

01:47:32.720 --> 01:47:40.300

Phil: So I am happy to give this game a 9 out of 10.

01:47:41.720 --> 01:47:44.360

Tom: And I am now ruling the die of destiny.

01:47:45.420 --> 01:47:46.760

Phil: Keep fingers crossed, everyone.

01:47:47.200 --> 01:48:08.060

Tom: And this game, which I think is one of the best stories about the decline of modern America, as some might put it, full stop in any medium, and I am giving it a 8 out of 10 as the die has landed.

01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:09.180

Phil: Wow, awesome.

01:48:09.440 --> 01:48:10.880

Phil: So everything has worked out great.

01:48:11.300 --> 01:48:12.100

Tom: It has indeed.

01:48:12.120 --> 01:48:14.200

Tom: That's a lucky roll for once.

01:48:14.420 --> 01:48:30.240

Phil: We've already closed out the show, but I do want you to give good thought to the next game that we should both play from our itch.io godsale, because you proposed this, even though I was intending to play it anyway, but you proposed it, and as a result, I really thoroughly enjoyed it.

01:48:30.260 --> 01:48:31.200

Phil: So I thank you for that.

01:48:31.700 --> 01:48:35.680

Phil: And I thank our listeners for listening to episode 130 of The Game Under Podcast.

01:48:35.820 --> 01:48:43.440

Tom: And I do have to bring up Vampyr, because on the website now, or perhaps soon, there will be a short review about it.

01:48:43.720 --> 01:48:45.240

Phil: Yeah, and I've read a preview of that.

01:48:45.240 --> 01:48:53.420

Phil: It's a game by Don't Nod, The Life of Strange People, and I have a ton of questions about it, so hopefully we'll hit that in episode 131.

01:48:53.440 --> 01:48:55.420

Phil: So with that, I am Phil Fogg.

01:48:55.940 --> 01:49:01.940

Tom: I'm Tom Towers, and I must supply a correction, and I've got a question for you, which should be short.

01:49:02.520 --> 01:49:19.440

Tom: But I commented on Lord of the Flies and Thomas Hobbes and their relationship to games and anthropology, and one thing I've noticed is, as listeners are no doubt familiar with, I do make the odd insane comment.

01:49:20.040 --> 01:49:36.000

Tom: But particularly in the sphere of politics and philosophy, you will come across people making just randomly out of the blue completely insane comments, which I do all the time, but I'm aware of, and I get the feeling that they're not aware of it.

01:49:36.020 --> 01:49:56.800

Tom: It's like, for instance, in MineCamp, it seems all perfectly sensible and sane, yet sprinkled throughout it, there's random references to Jews, and it's written by someone else who is insane, but it's apparently not.

01:49:57.260 --> 01:50:06.280

Tom: And you get the sense that Hitler is not aware of the difference between his sane statements and his totally insane ones.

01:50:07.760 --> 01:50:09.620

Phil: Yeah, so those blind spots.

01:50:10.300 --> 01:50:27.020

Phil: And indeed, for you to be aware of your, quote, blind spots, that's incredible, but I'm sure there's tons of stuff that everyone goes through in their daily life where we're saying things or thinking things to us which are completely sane, but don't realize that's one of our insane hangups.

Phil: So yeah, that's really good, Tom.

01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:34.480

Phil: I appreciate that, and I'll talk to you soon on episode 131.

01:50:35.360 --> 01:50:38.120

Tom: And I stand by those insane statements for the record.

01:50:38.500 --> 01:50:39.920

Phil: Hey, it's the only reason I do this show.

Game Under Podcast 129

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:12 Halo Infinite Delay & New Consoles Launch
0:03:40 Mario Bros. is Hard

First Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:10:35 Deadly Premonition: A Blessing in Disguise for Switch

First Impressions - Tom Towers
0:33:40 Five Nights at Freddy's

First Impressions - Phil Fogg
0:46:33 Netflix Series, High Score

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
0:49:04 Project Warlock - PC, Switch and everything else

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
1:17:12 Metro Last Light DLC Original vs. HDeification

Tom Towers Reacts to the News
1:31:15 Single Game Studios
1:36:53 Tom's Impression of Stonehouse Orphanage
1:38:45 198fortnite
1:42:24 Call of Duty Black Ops Coldwar Ad

Final Impressions - Tom Towers
1:46:33 Metal Slug X

Transcript

Phil: Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 129 of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest running video game podcast.

00:00:19.880 --> 00:00:24.760

Phil: I am your co-host, Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by Tom Towers.

00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:25.220

Phil: Hi, Tom.

00:00:25.420 --> 00:00:26.220

Tom: Hello, Phil.

00:00:27.340 --> 00:00:27.900

Phil: How's things?

00:00:29.080 --> 00:00:34.160

Tom: I believe they are trending downwards in terms of numbers.

00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:36.040

Phil: Oh, really?

00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:39.960

Phil: You were talking to a podcast listener?

00:00:39.980 --> 00:00:40.420

Tom: Yes.

00:00:40.440 --> 00:00:41.080

Phil: Or COVID?

00:00:42.160 --> 00:00:42.840

Phil: Or COVID?

00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:43.260

Phil: Yeah.

00:00:46.180 --> 00:00:47.940

Phil: I can confirm one of those is true.

00:00:48.260 --> 00:00:51.640

Phil: The other one might be just some sort of right-wing lie.

00:00:52.340 --> 00:00:53.520

Tom: It depends on where you are.

00:00:55.900 --> 00:00:56.740

Phil: In Melbourne or...?

00:00:56.760 --> 00:00:57.480

Tom: In the world.

00:00:58.480 --> 00:00:59.320

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:00:59.380 --> 00:00:59.820

Phil: Yeah.

00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:02.100

Phil: As to who's propagating the lie.

00:01:02.860 --> 00:01:06.420

Tom: Depending on whether the numbers are trending down and what those numbers are.

00:01:07.160 --> 00:01:07.940

Phil: Well, that's cool.

00:01:07.940 --> 00:01:11.320

Phil: I mean, this COVID thing has been in the news this week.

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:21.160

Phil: I don't know if you've noticed because, you know, things like Halo Infinite being delayed and all of these sorts of things.

00:01:21.320 --> 00:01:28.580

Tom: In the case of Halo Infinite, I would bet that that is an excuse after the reception it got.

00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:30.580

Phil: You think so?

00:01:30.600 --> 00:01:33.240

Phil: I've been up on the fence of that one.

00:01:33.880 --> 00:01:35.760

Phil: Because I don't think they're...

00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:43.140

Phil: Well, I mean, it has to be legitimate that it would be difficult to coordinate it between now and then.

00:01:43.160 --> 00:01:51.340

Phil: I think that they probably knew that it wasn't going to come out this year, but they didn't want to put a damper on their big game presentation a couple of weeks ago.

00:01:51.360 --> 00:01:55.360

Phil: So they've kind of let a few weeks go.

00:01:55.380 --> 00:02:01.920

Phil: But we won't know for some time what the actual truth is behind it.

00:02:02.160 --> 00:02:13.200

Tom: Coronavirus may well have interfered with the development in releasing the trailer, for all we know, resulting in the lackluster graphics on display.

00:02:15.540 --> 00:02:23.980

Phil: Well, I was interestingly speaking to a stranger who actually has an interest in video games this weekend.

00:02:24.700 --> 00:02:28.000

Tom: Was this someone you met in a shopping center?

00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.160

Phil: Yes, and they were not wearing a mask.

00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:41.940

Phil: And something came up about video games and then they just said, Oh, what consoles are you pre-ordering?

00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:48.780

Phil: And I've got to say, this was not an EB Games or anything, which is where you would expect that sort of question.

00:02:49.460 --> 00:03:02.720

Phil: And I sort of said, Oh, well, I'm definitely getting a PlayStation 5 at launch, but I'm not getting an Xbox because there's no real pressure to get it, because there's no incredible exclusives that are available at launch.

00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:12.580

Phil: And he said, Oh, yeah, but backward compatibility, you know, with your 360 and original Xbox, that's huge, you know, for him.

00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:13.860

Phil: So he's pre-ordering both.

00:03:14.500 --> 00:03:16.520

Tom: Were you actually just talking to yourself?

00:03:17.160 --> 00:03:17.840

Phil: No, I wasn't.

00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:27.000

Phil: But this guy also did have an extensive retro collection, including like Atari Lynxes.

00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:33.820

Phil: And I was like, Hey, I might be able to set you up, hook you up, man, because I've grown disinterested in my Atari Lynxes.

00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:38.700

Phil: And then immediately realized that I completely undermined my negotiating position.

00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:40.280

Phil: So...

00:03:40.300 --> 00:03:51.660

Tom: While we're on the topic of retro consoles, before we move on, I've played a little more of Super Mario World.

00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:53.240

Tom: I think that's what it's called.

00:03:53.260 --> 00:03:58.520

Tom: The compilation of NES and SNES Super Marios on the SNES.

00:03:59.260 --> 00:04:00.460

Phil: Super Mario All-Stars.

00:04:00.480 --> 00:04:01.260

Tom: Yes, that will be it.

00:04:01.340 --> 00:04:07.860

Tom: As well as some of new Super Mario Bros Wii U for comparison.

00:04:08.700 --> 00:04:18.800

Tom: And I have to say, why on earth does the Super Mario 2D series not have a reputation as being extraordinarily hard?

00:04:20.580 --> 00:04:22.640

Phil: This is what I've been trying to tell people for centuries.

00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:29.880

Tom: Because, I mean, we all laughed once upon a time at the video of you playing Super Mario Bros.

00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:32.820

Tom: But it is tremendously difficult.

00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:44.360

Tom: It may not be on the level of something like Super Meat Boy, but it is on another plane compared to Rayman and Donkey Kong among others.

00:04:45.960 --> 00:04:47.160

Phil: Yeah, I definitely think so.

00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:54.200

Phil: And I think the reason why I was mocked for decades for not being good at Mario was because I didn't play it at the time that it was released.

00:04:54.660 --> 00:05:02.660

Phil: And of course, for people who played it at the time that it was released, it was their only game for a long period of time.

00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:06.040

Phil: And also people played it a lot because it's a great game.

00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:07.940

Phil: And they are great games, absolutely.

00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:18.920

Phil: Which is why I've played the first probably eight levels of Super Mario World or Super Mario Brothers 3, probably at least 100 hours each.

00:05:19.180 --> 00:05:23.660

Phil: It's just I'm not good at platforming on a 2D plane.

00:05:25.460 --> 00:05:28.540

Phil: So, yeah, I think these games are hard.

00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:34.600

Phil: And I think that people are mocked for thinking that they're hard because they didn't play them at the time of their release.

00:05:34.960 --> 00:05:58.660

Tom: And the interesting thing about the Wii U version is that the difficulty is increased even further, where depending on how you're playing it, if you're trying to be fast, could be on the level of something like Super Meat Boy, the amount of random shit that they're throwing at you compared to the older games is insane.

00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:07.820

Tom: So the other interesting thing about the series is unlike many others, it is one that has actually got more difficult over the years rather than easier.

00:06:09.640 --> 00:06:11.080

Phil: In terms of the 2D?

00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:11.440

Tom: Yes.

00:06:12.380 --> 00:06:14.020

Tom: Obviously not the 3D Mario's.

00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:18.060

Tom: They are tremendously easy, at least Super Mario Galaxy's.

00:06:19.400 --> 00:06:21.440

Phil: The Galaxy's were easy, Odyssey was easy.

00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:24.800

Phil: Yeah, no problems there at all.

00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:38.560

Phil: I think Mario 64 was probably the only one that's somewhat difficult, particularly now if you go back to it, just because the controls are, that were once novel, and at the time you really applied yourself because you were learning a new thing.

00:06:38.740 --> 00:06:45.020

Phil: Now it's been, what, 25 years since then, maybe less, slightly less.

00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:48.960

Phil: So just going back to the single analog is a bit tricky.

00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:50.980

Phil: But no, that's a good observation.

00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:56.820

Phil: And also observation that you are playing those on the original hardware using a SNES and a Wii U.

00:06:56.840 --> 00:06:57.660

Tom: Correct, yes.

00:06:57.900 --> 00:07:01.820

Phil: Yeah, so you're using the controls, so this is not an emulator thing.

00:07:01.840 --> 00:07:04.480

Phil: It's not like you're playing it as it was intended.

00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:12.480

Phil: Though I do wonder if there's lag because you're at least not, at least with the SNES, because you're playing it through an HDMI.

00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:22.180

Tom: Well, I have played it both through the HDMI connection as well as RCA, and I do not detect a significant difference.

00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.280

Phil: No, nor do I, for that matter.

00:07:25.300 --> 00:07:45.020

Tom: But one other thing I will add, which I don't see mentioned anywhere, is that you do see Super Mario being praised for how expressive the jumping mechanics are and that sort of thing, in that there's a lot more control you have over how far you jump, depending on how you press the button.

00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:52.800

Tom: But when you were working out how to play, it honestly just feels completely inconsistent and is tremendously annoying.

00:07:52.820 --> 00:08:14.700

Tom: And when you combine that with the new Super Mario Brothers level design, where there are so many enemies and they do not follow a 100% consistent pathway through the levels and so forth, it again adds to the frustration, rather than adding to the enjoyment.

00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:19.220

Phil: Surely, though, you've got to be progressing further than I had.

00:08:20.440 --> 00:08:23.980

Tom: Well, I haven't been playing them that much, so how many levels are you in?

00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:38.120

Tom: I've completed the first world of the old one and about two worlds or a world and a half of the new one, but I have not been playing them for 100 hours or anything like that.

00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:42.600

Phil: Okay, yeah, so I've gotten significantly further over the years.

00:08:42.620 --> 00:09:03.600

Tom: Which is in fact the other thing that annoys me about other games is the save structure, because to me, they are perfect to play in very short sessions, but because of the save structure where you cannot save until you reach the end of the several levels, it really gets in the way of that.

00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:19.880

Phil: We were talking about the next generation, like Xbox Series X, and I got to tell you one thing that's been bugging me on podcasts is every time I hear someone talking about the new Xbox, they say, yeah, but I don't know if it's going to have Ridge Racing support.

00:09:21.060 --> 00:09:22.120

Tom: Ridge Racing support?

00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:26.520

Phil: That's what I'm hearing, but they're saying Ridge Racing, but I'm hearing Ridge Racing.

00:09:27.420 --> 00:09:28.920

Phil: Rage Racing, Ridge Racing.

00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.380

Phil: Maybe it's Michael Cain who's doing the podcast, Rage Tracing.

00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:46.780

Tom: I think at this stage, probably none of the consoles will have Ridge Racing support, unfortunately, but the Xbox Backwards compatibility will actually allow you to play some of the latter Ridge Racing games.

00:09:47.620 --> 00:09:48.280

Phil: I hope so.

00:09:48.300 --> 00:09:49.700

Phil: See, that's the thing I'm asking about.

00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:52.720

Phil: Is it just going to be Microsoft Publish that are backward compatible?

00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.760

Phil: Or is it, yeah, anyway, someone will let me know, I hope.

00:09:56.860 --> 00:10:07.160

Tom: I'm pretty sure they're aiming for all games, and they have a target of all Microsoft games at launch and a number of non-Microsoft games at launch.

00:10:07.780 --> 00:10:09.760

Tom: But I'm pretty sure they're targeting all, aren't they?

00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:14.000

Phil: They're targeting all, so we'll see.

00:10:14.100 --> 00:10:18.380

Phil: I mean, there's got to be some games that due to licensing, they're unable to do.

00:10:18.540 --> 00:10:26.860

Phil: But certainly on the original Xbox, they wouldn't have been able to encompass the level of licensing for this sort of future technology.

00:10:28.540 --> 00:10:30.180

Phil: So yeah, we'll find out.

00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:41.620

Phil: Speaking of the original Xbox, actually the Xbox 360, Deadly Premonition has been a game that has featured prominently on this podcast for years.

00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:44.420

Phil: Game by Swery.

00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:46.480

Phil: I'm sure everyone at this point is familiar with it.

00:10:47.580 --> 00:10:49.040

Phil: It's one of your favorite games, right?

00:10:49.060 --> 00:10:49.680

Tom: Absolutely.

00:10:50.540 --> 00:11:00.500

Tom: I believe I reviewed it as well as orally reviewing it on air in one of the best episodes of The Game Under Podcast.

00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:05.300

Phil: I, of course, know exactly when that was, and that was in Episode 8, though.

00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.300

Phil: A lot of the early episodes, we sprinkled it throughout.

00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:10.820

Phil: But yeah, it's been a favorite game.

00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:12.980

Phil: And then recently, of course, it's been re-released.

00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:13.960

Phil: Well, not...

00:11:14.020 --> 00:11:14.980

Phil: it has been re-released.

00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:18.920

Phil: There was a director's cut that came out for the PlayStation 3.

00:11:18.940 --> 00:11:19.940

Tom: That's the version I played?

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:22.320

Phil: Yep, it's the director's cut.

00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.580

Phil: And I think that has been re-released for Switch as well.

00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:27.300

Phil: In fact, I know it has been re-released for Switch.

00:11:27.540 --> 00:11:32.740

Tom: And it's also on PC, which would be the place to get it, as I believe.

00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:35.780

Tom: You can actually get the PC version of it running well.

00:11:37.260 --> 00:11:41.020

Phil: And now I've been playing the sequel, Deadly Premonition 2.

00:11:41.900 --> 00:11:45.060

Phil: And it's by the original director, Swery.

00:11:45.980 --> 00:11:53.300

Phil: I've got to say that when I first got this game, I played it for a very long time without having updated it.

00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:58.320

Phil: So it was kind of an interesting experience, because when I first turned on the Switch, I was somewhere where there was no Internet.

00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:04.980

Phil: And immediately, even though I was not connected to the Internet, it said, there is an update available for this game.

00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:05.860

Phil: Would you like to download it?

00:12:05.880 --> 00:12:06.480

Phil: Download now.

00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:13.380

Phil: So right off the cart, they knew that there would be a day one patch that has been written into it.

00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:15.560

Phil: And I just said, no, because I couldn't.

00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.320

Phil: You know, I wasn't going to have Internet access for a few days.

00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:20.300

Phil: So I said, no, I don't have access to the Internet.

00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:21.040

Phil: Just let me play.

00:12:21.800 --> 00:12:23.020

Phil: So I've been playing.

00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:36.580

Phil: So when I did get back to Internet land, I found out that there was this massive controversy because as with the original, there is a trans character in this game.

00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:45.500

Phil: And apparently the way that Swery worked with that material in his original script on the unupdated game was insensitive.

00:12:45.540 --> 00:12:52.140

Phil: Now, I don't know what was in that, but that was reason enough for me to go, you know what, I'm not going to update this game.

00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:54.580

Phil: I'm going to keep playing this.

00:12:55.060 --> 00:12:56.560

Phil: So I played probably the first...

00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:03.780

Tom: And the improvements to the frame rate, I believe, have been in the order of just a few frames.

00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:06.540

Tom: So you're not getting much of a performance increase at all.

00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:08.960

Phil: Yeah, well, I'll give you impressions about that.

00:13:09.180 --> 00:13:16.580

Phil: But apparently at a certain point in the game, I was just coming up with so many issues that I went, you know what?

00:13:16.760 --> 00:13:23.500

Phil: As cool as it will be for the podcast, for me to see the original unedited or unupdated version of this, which is probably...

00:13:23.920 --> 00:13:25.700

Phil: Which is most definitely already on YouTube.

00:13:26.300 --> 00:13:27.600

Phil: I have to update this game.

00:13:27.620 --> 00:13:28.540

Phil: So I did update it.

00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:35.560

Phil: And I did get to the part where in the original, he had deadnamed the trans character.

00:13:36.300 --> 00:13:40.520

Phil: So that's the pattern of referring to someone in the...

00:13:41.160 --> 00:13:43.440

Phil: Using the person's old name in their new gender.

00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:46.800

Phil: And I can see why that would be upsetting.

00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:51.340

Phil: If I'd gone through that process and someone used my old name, that'd be upsetting.

00:13:51.580 --> 00:13:52.880

Phil: Understandable, but upsetting.

00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:59.760

Tom: The real question is why you would change your name from Phil Fogg no matter what you were doing.

00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:04.100

Tom: I don't think you could change your name if you were called Phil Fogg.

00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:06.260

Phil: Well, I changed it to Phyllis.

00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:07.240

Phil: Phyllis Fogg.

00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.640

Tom: But one would still refer to you as Phil for short.

00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:12.220

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

00:14:12.280 --> 00:14:12.780

Phil: That's true.

00:14:13.040 --> 00:14:47.620

Phil: And so it is hilarious because about, I would say, 20 minutes before the incident that has been now edited out, there is an awkward and hastily put together mini-speech that the lead character, what's his name, York, puts together about how it's so unfair how trans people are treated in some parts of the country and that this is backward thinking and that we need to move together and work together as one.

00:14:47.940 --> 00:15:02.280

Phil: And it is like all of the cut scenes are really poor, like with people like swiveling on as if they're sitting in an office chair, like as they turn, like because they don't have any actual legs, you know.

00:15:03.300 --> 00:15:04.740

Phil: It's just the top part of their body.

00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.440

Phil: But this was particularly poor and very obvious.

00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:10.200

Phil: I was like, oh, we must be getting close to it.

00:15:11.260 --> 00:15:12.540

Phil: And then we get to the part.

00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:16.240

Phil: And they've cleaned up the script pretty well.

00:15:16.260 --> 00:15:18.920

Phil: Like it was pretty seamlessly seamless how they did it.

00:15:19.400 --> 00:15:27.760

Phil: But the thing is, like he was, he would have only been dead naming it because it was a revelation in the script as to who this person was.

00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:34.180

Phil: Like it's a big revelation as to who this person in front of you used to be, their former identity.

00:15:34.580 --> 00:15:51.860

Phil: And so because this is the first time you're seeing them, because you never actually saw the person as they were before, you'd only heard about them, like it would be a big leap unless it was set up really obviously to say, Tom, is that you?

00:15:52.300 --> 00:15:54.380

Phil: You know, I mean, that would be the easy moment.

00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:55.280

Tom: Not anymore, Phil.

00:15:56.400 --> 00:15:57.100

Phil: No, not anymore.

00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:10.500

Phil: So but so instead they have to dance around it and say, I can't believe it's you who used to co-host the podcast instead of saying the actual name, right?

00:16:10.660 --> 00:16:10.960

Phil: Yep.

00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:24.060

Phil: So like in a mystery game where there's a big reveal, it would have only been obvious to deadname the person, you know, and so they danced around it and I thought they did it quite well.

00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:26.280

Phil: And, you know, that's fine.

00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:31.240

Tom: In a sense, by making it more awkward, it's actually fitting the tone of Deadly Premonition better.

00:16:32.060 --> 00:16:32.460

Phil: It is.

00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:33.160

Phil: It is.

00:16:34.260 --> 00:16:38.160

Phil: So I just thought I'd mention that, the fact that I've been playing the game mostly unupdated.

00:16:40.020 --> 00:16:58.260

Tom: Just one other thing I'll add on that is his commentary on changing it was very endearing in the way only Swery could be, where he begged people not to dislike York, and that York didn't come up with this dialogue.

00:16:58.420 --> 00:17:00.420

Tom: It was the fault of he as a writer.

00:17:01.300 --> 00:17:04.280

Phil: Yeah, that was pretty good.

00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:09.140

Phil: And I kind of felt bad for Swery, because it obviously was a massive blind spot for him.

00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:15.660

Phil: And instead of just saying, you know, I'm an artist, these are my words, screw off.

00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:22.780

Phil: And because, you know, he's dealt with trans characters in his works before, obviously.

00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:25.200

Phil: So, you know, yeah.

00:17:25.220 --> 00:17:33.200

Phil: Anyway, I thought it was all handled well, but the clumsy speech 20 minutes before it just set it up way too bad.

00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:53.300

Phil: And in a way, I think it was probably included to kind of put maybe insensitive or immature gamers on notice that, hey, you know, if you're thinking that this is something weird or stupid or something to laugh about, you know, this isn't this sort of game and this thing's going to happen in about 20 minutes.

00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:56.380

Phil: So if you don't like that, you know, be prepared.

00:17:57.780 --> 00:18:02.900

Phil: So back to the game itself in terms of its frame rate, I honestly had no problems with it.

00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:05.800

Phil: I had problems with the load times.

00:18:06.340 --> 00:18:11.280

Phil: Like, you know how there's a loading animation on the screen usually when you're loading something?

00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:22.880

Phil: This was loading so poorly that the frame rate of that is what I noticed, is that the little twirling swirl would get caught up.

00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:30.060

Phil: But in the game itself, it was more an issue of texture pop-ups, but not frame rate.

00:18:31.660 --> 00:18:33.700

Tom: I believe one of the ways...

00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:35.220

Tom: You have updated now, haven't you?

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:36.480

Phil: I have now.

00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:39.220

Tom: Because I think one of the ways that they lowered...

00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:49.300

Tom: Sorry, they raised the frame rate, was actually lowering the draw distance and how close things were when they rendered it.

00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:56.340

Tom: Previously, the frame rate may have been a little bit worse, but things would have loaded earlier.

00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:03.700

Phil: The draw distance, even on a texture as mundane as a city street, is ludicrous.

00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.620

Phil: And it was not improved or changed, that I could tell.

00:19:08.020 --> 00:19:10.680

Phil: And honestly, I can't tell any changes in the frame rate either.

00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:17.140

Phil: So it's not something that I'm particularly sensitive to, but I am also playing it in handheld mode almost exclusively.

00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:20.520

Phil: And you also have to factor in that, you know, I've been gaming for a long time.

00:19:20.580 --> 00:19:30.000

Phil: So in terms of I've seen, I've been around games that have janky graphics for a long time, and I'm not particularly off put by them.

00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:38.280

Phil: Having said that, people have said that this looks like a PlayStation 2 game, which is completely unfair and inaccurate.

00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:44.280

Phil: It's more like a DS game in terms of its graphics.

00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:53.020

Tom: It looks like the original Deadly Premonition remaster, really, which looked like a bad PS3 slash 360 game.

00:19:54.060 --> 00:19:54.380

Tom: Yeah.

00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:58.700

Tom: So I think DS is a bit harsh, or does it look worse than the previous game?

00:19:59.240 --> 00:19:59.960

Phil: It looks worse.

00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:11.320

Phil: And certainly from the stills that you see, it sort of looks like a DS game, but with some cell shading going on around the edges to cover up graphical flaws.

00:20:12.560 --> 00:20:13.900

Phil: The game is quite poor.

00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:17.700

Phil: I mean, it doesn't look like a current gen or even a last gen game.

00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:19.200

Phil: I'll leave it at that.

00:20:19.620 --> 00:20:25.320

Phil: And there certainly were several PlayStation 2 games, if not most PlayStation 2 games, that looked much better.

00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:28.680

Tom: I mean, Killzone was a PlayStation 2 game.

00:20:29.260 --> 00:20:30.700

Phil: Yeah, God of War, God of War 2.

00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:31.460

Tom: Yep, another one.

00:20:32.360 --> 00:20:35.920

Phil: So, you know, there were some really great-looking PlayStation 2 games.

00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:36.960

Tom: Fahrenheit?

00:20:36.980 --> 00:20:39.680

Phil: But, uh, Fahrenheit, yeah, indeed.

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:42.540

Phil: But having said that, it doesn't detract from the game.

00:20:42.840 --> 00:20:51.100

Phil: What my concern was going into it, having looked at, looking at the stills, was that this was not going to be a deadly premonition game.

00:20:51.120 --> 00:20:52.960

Phil: Like, this wasn't going to be a true sequel.

00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:55.240

Phil: It was going to be some stupid side story.

00:20:56.840 --> 00:21:05.940

Phil: And I was starting to worry that it might be like Flower, Sun, Rain, the game by Suda 51, which covers a similar sort of territory.

00:21:06.020 --> 00:21:16.340

Tom: And the original Deadly Premonition's ending, if I recall, did in fact provide some foreshadowing of what could have been a sequel.

00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:18.640

Tom: So is it building on that?

00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:22.640

Phil: Well, first of all, yes and no.

00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:24.600

Phil: But I'll say this first.

00:21:25.060 --> 00:21:29.360

Phil: The great thing is, this sticks to the original formula 100%.

00:21:30.800 --> 00:21:32.360

Phil: There are less characters in the game.

00:21:33.300 --> 00:21:43.940

Phil: The area that you're covering is probably slightly smaller, but it follows the same exact game, gameplay as the original.

00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:49.580

Phil: So if you enjoyed the original, there is no reason why you wouldn't enjoy this sequel.

00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:55.020

Tom: With a smaller cast, is there a better consistency in character quality?

00:21:56.740 --> 00:22:00.940

Phil: No, the character quality I found in the original to be quite good anyway.

00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:10.360

Tom: It was, absolutely, but there was a noticeable difference between the characters directly involved in the main plot and those less involved in it.

00:22:11.120 --> 00:22:16.640

Phil: Even the minor characters in this one are still interesting and are still well written, I would say.

00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:17.160

Tom: Excellent.

00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:27.760

Phil: Certainly, the dialogue in Deadly Premonition is always a shining star, and certainly you could possibly say that the inner dialogue is the shining star.

00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:37.380

Phil: The conversations between York and Zack are still there, and that probably answers your question.

00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:44.560

Phil: So this is actually, interestingly enough, you play most of the game as a prequel to the happenings at...

00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:46.560

Phil: I can't remember it right now.

00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:53.040

Phil: But most of the game is played as a sequel, and then in between the chapters...

00:22:53.920 --> 00:23:03.820

Phil: Most of the game you play as a prequel, and then in between the chapters, there are these smaller chapters that are after the events of Deadly Premonition 1.

00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:07.240

Phil: And they're all linked together quite well.

00:23:07.900 --> 00:23:15.660

Phil: So you're seeing Francis York both before the first game and then also after.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:17.940

Phil: And I think it's been...

00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:20.160

Phil: The setup for it is really quite good.

00:23:21.080 --> 00:23:35.060

Tom: So that's pretty impressive that a sequel like that is managing to live up to the original and also sounds like it has reasonable justification for existing.

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.060

Phil: Yes, definitely.

00:23:37.120 --> 00:23:45.840

Phil: Now, I've got to point out that, without spoiling it, that the sequel components are limited to a single room in which you're talking to two other parties.

00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:47.250

Phil: So it's not like a...

00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:51.970

Phil: and as I said, they're shorter sequences, but...

00:23:51.970 --> 00:23:57.560

Phil: and they're referring back to the incident that happened before Deadly Premonition 1.

00:23:58.620 --> 00:24:06.100

Phil: But even so, like you never feel like, oh, when you're in those sections, you're not like, oh, let me get back to the main game.

00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:13.180

Phil: And when you're in the main game, you're like, oh, you know, I wonder what's going to happen at the next episode break sort of thing.

00:24:14.260 --> 00:24:17.460

Phil: And those episode breaks are probably about 20 to 40 minutes long.

00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.180

Phil: So they're not, they're not sure.

00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.780

Phil: It's not like a little interstitial.

00:24:21.740 --> 00:24:23.460

Phil: They're a significant part of the game.

00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:30.460

Phil: And they reflect back into when you go back into the other time period.

00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:34.160

Phil: Now, I do want to point out here that there is no time travel.

00:24:34.600 --> 00:24:37.220

Phil: Okay, so this is all memories and things like that.

00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:39.360

Phil: So there's nothing hokey going on.

00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:40.780

Tom: Yet.

00:24:40.800 --> 00:24:42.060

Phil: But, yet.

00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:57.920

Phil: But you play as York, and you're basically going into this southern region in Louisiana to investigate the distribution of a dangerous drug called Saint Rouge, which plays into the game that was to follow this.

00:24:58.760 --> 00:25:00.280

Phil: And it's a murder investigation.

00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:03.620

Phil: I don't think it's a big spoiler to indicate that...

00:25:04.180 --> 00:25:15.060

Tom: Have you noticed as an aside that drugs in popular culture all have names that sound like intelligence or military operations, not like drugs?

00:25:16.520 --> 00:25:18.400

Phil: Oh, well, can you think of any other examples?

00:25:18.840 --> 00:25:19.860

Phil: I'm stuck here, but...

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.360

Tom: I can't think of any other examples, but that's what they're generally like.

00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:27.380

Phil: So...

00:25:28.660 --> 00:25:30.500

Tom: Saint Rouge, there's an example.

00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:31.540

Tom: Do you need more than one?

00:25:32.040 --> 00:25:32.900

Phil: No, that's good enough.

00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:33.260

Phil: Thank you.

00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:48.180

Phil: So you're basically, like in the old story, original, you're going into a small town that's slightly odd, meeting people that are slightly odd, and they may seem insignificant at first, but then they become a part of the game.

00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:58.680

Phil: So you do have to be at certain parts of the town at certain times of the day to continue the main storyline, and there's plenty of side quests as well.

00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:06.460

Phil: Driving was a contentious point in the original game, so they've replaced the driving capability with skateboarding.

00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:09.260

Phil: So you skateboard around town now.

00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:14.860

Phil: You can skate quite fast, so it's about the same speed as if you were in a vehicle.

00:26:15.780 --> 00:26:22.680

Phil: But it is perplexing because you're obviously skating by several vehicles, hundreds of vehicles, as you go through the town.

00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:32.260

Phil: And you're aiding the police in an investigation, and you have ample funds so that you would be able to rent a car if the police were not able to give you an undercover car.

00:26:33.360 --> 00:26:37.380

Phil: But obviously it adds a quirky fun component to the game.

00:26:38.420 --> 00:26:39.160

Phil: In terms of...

00:26:39.360 --> 00:26:41.840

Phil: This game is generally described as a survival horror.

00:26:41.840 --> 00:26:43.260

Phil: I'd say that's completely wrong.

00:26:43.860 --> 00:26:45.380

Phil: Most of the time you spend your time...

00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:48.620

Phil: Most of the game you spend your time traveling around, talking to people.

00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:56.100

Phil: And then there might be some mini quests, like a bowling-type challenge or something like that.

00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:01.140

Phil: As in the original, you do have to change your clothes, shower, sleep, eat.

00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:04.680

Phil: You know, there's those elements of it, but they're not onerous.

00:27:04.700 --> 00:27:06.120

Phil: They don't get in the way of the game.

00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:15.300

Phil: Saving is done quite easily at any telephone booth around town, but they also generously autosave a fair bit as well.

00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:22.220

Tom: So does that mean that there are not the third-person shooter horror sections that there were in the original?

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.300

Phil: There are, but they're not a big component.

00:27:24.320 --> 00:27:42.560

Phil: So typically for each episode, and these are large episodes, large chapters, at the end it will culminate in you going into a building and then dealing with these singularities, which is basically a warped perception around you.

00:27:43.060 --> 00:27:47.740

Phil: And there are enemies just as hokey as in the original for you to shoot.

00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:53.760

Phil: So that would be the survival horror, but it's not really survival horror, it's more of a shooting gallery.

00:27:54.020 --> 00:28:02.640

Phil: You walk into a room, there's four enemies, you put five bullets into them, they die, and that opens the next room.

00:28:02.900 --> 00:28:08.900

Phil: And the shooting is quite disappointing, as you can imagine, and unsatisfying.

00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:10.700

Tom: Well, it was in the original too.

00:28:11.300 --> 00:28:19.140

Phil: Yeah, you're using rubber bullets, and then there is a stun, like a charged laser-type weapon that you do unlock later on.

00:28:20.320 --> 00:28:31.640

Phil: In the community, you can shoot squirrels, crocodiles, birds and other things, but, and in fact people as well, but you are using rubber bullets.

00:28:32.560 --> 00:28:35.020

Phil: So that really describes the game.

00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:46.300

Phil: Obviously, as a part of your investigation, you've got these components where you might have to solve a small puzzle, but it's really more of a, this is a scenario now.

00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:47.940

Phil: Here's four clues in front of you.

00:28:48.320 --> 00:28:50.440

Phil: Which one do you think is the most pertinent clue?

00:28:51.260 --> 00:28:56.060

Tom: So it sounds like, as we were saying before, it actually lives up to the hype.

00:28:57.020 --> 00:28:58.940

Tom: Did you have anything else to add?

00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:16.840

Phil: Look, the only thing I would say is it does have some super frustrating parts where you will go into the next place that you're supposed to go into, or in fact you might go up to the building where there's an indicator saying you need to go into it and you can't get into that door because it's not open.

00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:26.880

Phil: You might go into the building and go up to the person that you're supposed to speak to to trigger an event and it won't trigger.

00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:42.560

Phil: So you will be given side quests, not side quests, rather, you'll be given searches to do, like go get me five of these, and not told at all anywhere where you are to get it.

00:29:43.300 --> 00:29:49.960

Phil: One of the fetch quests has you go, I randomly found where I was supposed to get this thing, let's say it's a soccer field.

00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:54.580

Phil: I walked every square meter of that soccer field and found one of them.

00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:01.480

Phil: And then I went, okay, I've got to get five of these, so I'll go somewhere else now to look for it.

00:30:01.560 --> 00:30:05.820

Phil: All five of them are in that same soccer field, but they will appear randomly.

00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:15.760

Phil: And I had to figure that out by going on YouTube because like you would think, I've already explored this entire area.

00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:16.920

Phil: I've found one.

00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:20.420

Phil: So now I have to go to another area to find the other five.

00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:25.040

Phil: No, you just have to keep walking randomly around that soccer field until you find the other five.

00:30:25.100 --> 00:30:29.840

Phil: But you can't find all five of them just in sequence.

00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:35.300

Phil: And there's also stupidly frustrating time, the fillers.

00:30:35.820 --> 00:30:37.640

Phil: So basically, you'll be on FetchQuest.

00:30:37.660 --> 00:30:40.540

Tom: Well, that would be one way of filling up time as well, I dare say.

00:30:40.560 --> 00:30:42.140

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:46.560

Phil: But they have like a FetchQuest where you get two of the three items.

00:30:46.940 --> 00:30:49.980

Phil: And then the third item is at this location.

00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:51.060

Phil: I'll make it up.

00:30:51.080 --> 00:30:51.980

Phil: I'll say a library.

00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:55.960

Phil: And I'll say something like, oh, well, we only check out DVDs on Monday.

00:30:56.760 --> 00:30:58.140

Phil: And you're on Wednesday.

00:30:59.320 --> 00:31:09.720

Phil: And the only way to speed up time is to go back to your hotel room, sleep for 24 hours, which will force you to shower and eat because, you know, you stink and you need to eat.

00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:12.400

Phil: And then you'll have to do laundry.

00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:14.260

Phil: And then you can sleep for another 24 hours.

00:31:14.280 --> 00:31:18.940

Phil: So it's really obvious that they're stretching out the time that the player is spending with the game.

00:31:19.320 --> 00:31:20.660

Phil: And there's no reward to it.

00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.340

Phil: Yeah, you could go off and do side quests.

00:31:22.360 --> 00:31:32.380

Phil: But at that point in the game, there weren't very many compelling side quests to start with and certainly not ones that would take up, you know, five or six days of in-game time.

00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.880

Tom: That sounds also not like the original.

00:31:35.900 --> 00:31:53.420

Tom: I was going to say this sounds like the original, but it does not because while there were certain, a lot of awkward aspects to how things worked, like you had to use the map like a real map, for instance, which in a game is often more awkward than it is in reality for a variety of reasons.

00:31:54.780 --> 00:32:06.800

Tom: And there were weirdly esoteric ways you had to get certain things, but it felt more convoluted than like it was there arbitrarily as filler.

00:32:07.620 --> 00:32:12.540

Phil: Yeah, look, I've got to say one thing that has been proved in this game over the original is the map.

00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:14.340

Phil: The map is great.

00:32:14.560 --> 00:32:25.300

Phil: So, you know, there's other little tiny things in there that are just lame and stupid, that are technical issues due to, I assume, a small development team and lack of money.

00:32:26.740 --> 00:32:41.980

Phil: But the pluses outweigh the minuses, and certainly I was not expecting a sequel to Deadly Premonition, and having it on a Switch is all the better because it gives me many more opportunities to be able to play it, not just when I'm in front of my TV.

00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:45.360

Phil: So, yeah, and it's a budget title.

00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:48.580

Phil: I picked it up for like $60 new Australian.

00:32:48.820 --> 00:32:52.320

Phil: So I think it's about $50 in the States, I'm not sure.

00:32:53.580 --> 00:32:54.020

Tom: Excellent.

00:32:55.280 --> 00:33:00.380

Phil: So that's, you know, when it gets around to final impressions, I'm not going to go into the same detail I did today.

00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:11.040

Phil: I thought it was really important to get, provide good first impressions, to get as many of our listeners who would be interested in enough information so they can make a purchase decision.

00:33:11.320 --> 00:33:27.680

Tom: Definitely, and Deadly Premonition is a game since the original that is always in need of high quality impressions that either don't ignore all the stupid shit in it, treat it like a meme, or like it ironically.

00:33:27.700 --> 00:33:30.560

Phil: Yeah, and it's worth it for the dialogue.

00:33:30.620 --> 00:33:32.540

Phil: I mean, the dialogue in the game is great.

00:33:32.780 --> 00:33:35.720

Phil: It really is great.

00:33:36.040 --> 00:33:38.140

Phil: But in any case, that's enough about me.

00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.180

Phil: What have you been playing?

00:33:40.580 --> 00:34:03.200

Tom: While we're on the topic of horror games, I played Five Nights at Freddy's, which is by now rather an infamous title, given that it launched several of the largest streaming careers on YouTube, as well as a trend in...

00:34:03.860 --> 00:34:32.360

Tom: Well, actually, the interesting thing about it is, once you go back and play it, it probably actually hasn't had much influence on how horror games play, but it was obviously a massive deal, and it is fascinating to actually go and play it, because it turns out that it is in fact a work simulator, which I was not expecting, in spite of the fact that the layout is very much in the work sim environment.

00:34:32.380 --> 00:34:38.220

Tom: I wasn't expecting for it to actually play like one when you sat down and tried it for yourself.

00:34:40.140 --> 00:34:43.280

Phil: Yeah, so Five Nights at Freddy's, I was also not expecting it.

00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:47.260

Phil: All I knew that it was popular with the kids.

00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:51.280

Phil: And so I was not expecting anything of merit.

00:34:52.140 --> 00:34:59.720

Phil: And it's basically, if anyone is familiar with it, why would you be the Sega CD game Night Trap starring Dana Plato?

00:35:00.740 --> 00:35:16.620

Phil: It's basically a game, back in the FMV era, one full motion video era, one of the gameplay elements that that genre and technology lent itself to was basically switching from multiple security cameras so that you could see the plot develop and look out for threats.

00:35:18.020 --> 00:35:20.880

Phil: And Five Nights at Freddy's follows a very similar thing.

00:35:20.900 --> 00:35:28.420

Phil: You basically sit in one room and you're playing as a night security guard, watching a...

00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:37.060

Phil: it's like a pizza place for kids to go and they've got animatronic entertainment robots.

00:35:37.080 --> 00:35:40.000

Tom: I think the real world equivalent will be Chuck E.

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:40.680

Tom: Cheese.

00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:42.780

Phil: Yes, which I've been to, yeah.

00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:43.260

Phil: Chuck E.

00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.200

Phil: Cheese or Funtime Pizza.

00:35:45.860 --> 00:35:46.740

Phil: And Chuck E.

00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:51.820

Phil: Cheese was invented by Nolan Bushnell, who was the progenitor of Atari.

00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:54.380

Phil: So it has...

00:35:55.580 --> 00:35:56.140

Phil: even Chuck E.

00:35:56.160 --> 00:35:58.000

Phil: Cheese has some video game links.

00:35:58.020 --> 00:36:00.000

Phil: It's what he did with all his Atari money.

00:36:01.460 --> 00:36:02.380

Tom: Money well spent.

00:36:02.900 --> 00:36:03.820

Phil: Yeah, indeed.

00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:10.180

Phil: So you have these creepy looking animatronic robots and you play as a security guard.

00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:25.200

Phil: Now, I played like through one playthrough and I found it mostly incomprehensible and could not figure out what exactly I was supposed to be doing and died after about...

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:31.360

Tom: So when you say one playthrough, you mean one day, I assume not two night five.

00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:34.300

Phil: No, no, no, no, I got killed.

00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.980

Tom: Because that's another thing I was not expecting.

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:39.560

Tom: It is tremendously difficult.

00:36:39.600 --> 00:37:00.280

Tom: And essentially the gameplay consists of you switching between cameras, as you said, but in your office, there's also a door on either side of your desk and your chair and a light switch that lights up the room outside of your office on either side.

00:37:01.020 --> 00:37:01.380

Phil: Right.

00:37:02.080 --> 00:37:24.160

Tom: And the basic gameplay mechanic consists of the fact that whenever you bring up your tablet that has all the cameras on it, you are using battery power, and whenever you press the light switch or close the mechanical doors, which are basically like airlock doors, you are using battery power.

00:37:24.180 --> 00:37:29.080

Tom: So you have a limited amount of battery power that you can use per day.

00:37:30.040 --> 00:37:51.320

Tom: And when you're looking at the cameras, if you, other than allowing you to know where the animatronics are wandering, and thus when they might be getting to your door, looking at the animatronics in the camera, depending on which one it is, also results in them stopping or returning to whence they came.

00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:58.380

Tom: So, and obviously if the animatronics get into your office, then you get killed and you have to start the day again.

00:37:58.680 --> 00:38:11.600

Tom: So it basically boils down to you having to save enough battery power to make it to the end of the day without having been killed.

00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:29.440

Tom: Which, as you go along, gets significantly more and more difficult because the enemies become more and more aggressive, meaning you're using more power because you have to follow them in more detail or you have to keep the doors shut for longer lengths of time.

00:38:29.640 --> 00:39:13.920

Tom: But the rhythm of it is very much like a work simulator where by the end of the game, and without having looked up a strategy to beat Day 5, I would not have been able to do it, but even before then I worked up a rhythm where essentially what you're doing is you are bringing up the camera, looking at various areas, immediately closing it, then waiting a bit of time, then switching on the lights, then turning them off instantly, then waiting a bit of time and raising the map, and so on and so forth, which like the best work simulators, it's all about building up a rhythm that allows you to be more and more efficient.

00:39:14.380 --> 00:39:32.720

Tom: And like the best work simulators, as you're doing this there's lots of great tactile sound effects and visual effects as well when you're bringing up and putting down the tablet, changing cameras, and switching the lights on and off, which I was not expecting at all.

00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:51.520

Phil: I don't know if you know how the graphics came about or the concept came about for this game, but basically the creator had made another game and the criticism that he got, one of the most criticism he got from it was that his graphics looked like spooky animatronic characters.

00:39:52.600 --> 00:39:54.140

Phil: And it wasn't, they weren't supposed to be.

00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:59.640

Phil: It was like a game, like we'll just say a Bible game about bunny rabbits or something.

00:40:00.080 --> 00:40:05.080

Phil: And people were like, geez man, get rid of those creepy animatronic robots.

00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:10.160

Phil: And he was like, well, alright, how can I use these assets to create a game?

00:40:10.180 --> 00:40:13.040

Phil: So it's really quite genius.

00:40:13.100 --> 00:40:20.440

Phil: It's a low resource game to have made because the audio design mostly consists of creepy sound effects.

00:40:21.560 --> 00:40:36.880

Tom: And the visuals are all just several different backgrounds with an unanimated figure in it, with the exception of one character who in one frame has an animation of it sprinting along.

00:40:38.100 --> 00:40:42.520

Tom: And I think when you get killed, it has a couple of frames to the animation.

00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:49.200

Tom: So it also has very little animation in it as well, but it fits the aesthetic perfectly.

00:40:49.360 --> 00:41:21.500

Tom: And you can easily see how this became massively popular among teenagers and children, because as frightening as it is, and it's really more frustrating and tremendously tense in the latter days than frightening per se, but the whole atmosphere of it has a really great sense of humour, and the animatronics are actually as cute and as characterful as they are disturbing.

00:41:22.660 --> 00:41:33.140

Phil: I think too, this was a game made for streaming, and when it came out, and streaming was just sort of getting into that part where it was getting more viewership and getting easier to do.

00:41:33.160 --> 00:41:42.260

Phil: This is the kind of show, a game rather, that you would watch a sibling play while you sat on the edge of the couch saying, no, no, over there, on the left, on the left.

00:41:42.640 --> 00:41:46.580

Phil: You know, it's a game that would be fun to watch.

00:41:47.600 --> 00:41:50.220

Phil: So I can see why it's had the success that it has.

00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:57.160

Phil: And it's just a really, I think a really great little point in gaming history.

00:41:57.180 --> 00:42:11.620

Tom: And as a horror game, even though it is using the Night Trap camera style, it's tremendously original as well, both aesthetically, and in terms of its setting and the gameplay.

00:42:11.640 --> 00:42:16.360

Tom: Again, are there any other work simulator horror games out there?

00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:19.540

Tom: I can't think of any off the top of my head.

00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:24.140

Phil: My question that came up to me is, why would you come back for the second night of work?

00:42:25.020 --> 00:42:26.940

Phil: I know it's a video game, you know.

00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:28.360

Tom: Well, I wanted to finish it, so...

00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:33.660

Phil: No, but I'm saying the guy who's got the job is the security guard.

00:42:33.680 --> 00:43:02.900

Tom: That brings up another thing that I greatly appreciated, was the sense of humour with the whole handling of the work situation, where someone is calling you on the phone, and it is narrated by the developer, I believe, is calling you up and explaining to you about the dangers on the job in a very nonchalant fashion.

00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:04.680

Tom: It's just absolutely hilarious.

00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:18.980

Tom: And as is the whole concept of him going to a job for $4 an hour pay, where he is in mortal danger of being killed by animatronics.

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:32.380

Phil: Yeah, and look, everyone, except for me and you, is probably well-versed with this game, or perhaps not, because there's probably people, a lot of gamers from our mindset, that just went, oh, kids game, whatever, you know, stream a game, not going to look at it.

00:43:33.180 --> 00:43:38.060

Phil: But I do have one technical question about the game, and that is, does your batteries reset every night?

00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:38.720

Tom: Yes.

00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:40.260

Phil: Okay, okay.

00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.280

Phil: So it's not like you have to make it last five days.

00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:42.620

Tom: No, no.

00:43:43.140 --> 00:43:47.200

Phil: And you do restart from day two, or day three, I presume?

00:43:47.540 --> 00:43:52.000

Tom: As long as you survive each night, you end up on the next night.

00:43:52.620 --> 00:43:57.340

Phil: So could I get through, say, two nights and then come back to it two weeks later and start on night three?

00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:58.060

Tom: Yes, you could.

00:43:58.560 --> 00:43:59.160

Phil: Okay, good.

00:43:59.220 --> 00:44:05.860

Tom: And it's not really until night four, and to a lesser extent, three, that it really starts getting difficult.

00:44:06.580 --> 00:44:19.180

Phil: From what I can tell, I mean, this has turned into a media content, this has turned into a pop culture content type thing, but the games themselves, I don't think, has actually ever evolved out of what it actually is.

00:44:19.200 --> 00:44:23.840

Phil: I don't think there's been much done with it afterwards, but again, I probably sound like a complete idiot.

00:44:24.100 --> 00:44:30.740

Tom: I think they actually have altered how the games play quite a bit in later installments, as far as I'm aware.

00:44:31.300 --> 00:44:44.160

Tom: But one interesting and noteworthy thing about it is, although as far as I'm aware, they have in fact changed how the games play in later series, they're all nevertheless work simulators.

00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:48.740

Phil: You know, the one thing I realise is I haven't looked up Five Nights at Freddy cosplay.

00:44:49.180 --> 00:44:50.860

Phil: There must be some pretty good cosplay.

00:44:52.700 --> 00:44:59.440

Tom: I think that it created a fandom of a massive size that does a lot of things like that.

00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:05.940

Tom: YouTube, for instance, has millions of anime fan animations and that sort of thing.

00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:11.280

Tom: So there would no doubt be a large cosplaying community behind it as well.

00:45:11.860 --> 00:45:12.260

Phil: Cool.

00:45:12.560 --> 00:45:15.040

Phil: Well, anything else about Five Nights at Freddy's?

00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:21.860

Tom: That's pretty much it, but it was a very pleasant surprise and quite a shock that it is...

00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:30.180

Tom: It would probably have to go into perhaps the second best work simulator on the show so far.

00:45:31.020 --> 00:45:31.460

Phil: Okay.

00:45:31.580 --> 00:45:39.280

Phil: Well, certainly not for me, but it's kind of like our top ten best games of the decade sort of thing.

00:45:40.160 --> 00:45:49.140

Phil: I can clearly see that this is a seminal game of great importance, but just probably not one that I enjoy, but I'll give it another go.

00:45:49.540 --> 00:45:51.020

Phil: I've got to ask, how did you get...

00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:52.660

Phil: Because you got me into playing it.

00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:57.880

Phil: What twigged in your mind or what opportunity arose where you were like, hey, I'll give this a try?

00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.300

Tom: The moment I realised it was a work simulator, essentially.

00:46:01.300 --> 00:46:01.700

Phil: Okay.

00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:02.240

Phil: Yep.

00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:02.740

Phil: Yep.

00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:10.860

Tom: Before we move on, we will have to give the second best work simulator ever a dice score, though.

00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:11.840

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:46:11.860 --> 00:46:12.440

Phil: Go ahead, man.

00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:13.880

Phil: Roll the die of destiny.

00:46:13.900 --> 00:46:17.620

Tom: An 8 out of 10.

00:46:18.120 --> 00:46:18.620

Phil: Sweet.

00:46:19.580 --> 00:46:20.640

Phil: The stars are aligned.

00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:21.400

Tom: Amazing.

00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:27.040

Tom: So it actually got a score worthy of the second best work simulator ever.

00:46:27.060 --> 00:46:29.000

Tom: I believe that's the same score that I gave.

00:46:29.020 --> 00:46:29.940

Tom: Papers, please.

00:46:31.240 --> 00:46:32.020

Phil: Well, it's worthy.

00:46:32.020 --> 00:46:33.500

Phil: The die of destiny has spoken.

00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:41.800

Phil: Before we go on to another game that you've been playing, I don't know if you've watched this video game documentary on Netflix called High Score.

00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:45.760

Phil: It's from the same people that did The Movies That Made Us and The Toys That Made Us.

00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:48.380

Phil: Are you familiar with those other series?

00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.340

Tom: I have heard of them, but I have not watched them.

00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:51.780

Phil: Yeah, they're okay.

00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:54.520

Phil: I mean, The Toys That Made Us is certainly better than The Movies one.

00:46:55.680 --> 00:47:00.040

Phil: But yeah, it's a new six part series that covers the history of video games.

00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:06.600

Phil: Me personally, I found them to be really well produced, but light on information.

00:47:08.260 --> 00:47:12.500

Phil: And that seems to be the consensus from others I've asked about it.

00:47:12.520 --> 00:47:14.140

Phil: But, you know, worth checking out.

00:47:14.160 --> 00:47:18.060

Phil: There's six episodes, so maybe just pick and choose the content that you're interested in.

00:47:19.140 --> 00:47:24.100

Phil: I know that some people have criticized it for being too focused on the interviewees.

00:47:24.200 --> 00:47:39.600

Phil: So for example, you know, they found someone who's kind of interested to talk about, and then they make 20 minutes of the documentary about them, which is kind of ancillary to the core, you know, game or history that they're trying to present.

00:47:40.120 --> 00:47:49.440

Phil: But I think that those personalities actually do provide a look in, and those people work as an avatar for countless other people that would have been around at the same time.

00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:56.280

Phil: So I think that those interviews are interesting enough to have been included.

00:47:56.340 --> 00:48:06.200

Phil: But when you're looking at video game documentaries, I've got to say that probably 8 out of 10 are embarrassing or inaccurate.

00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.860

Tom: That's essentially the case with all documentaries, though.

00:48:10.460 --> 00:48:11.060

Phil: That's true.

00:48:11.260 --> 00:48:13.740

Phil: When you're familiar with the subject matter, yeah.

00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.120

Phil: But in this case, I have not...

00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:20.860

Phil: I know the topics that they're talking about backwards and forwards, and I haven't seen any inaccuracies.

00:48:21.560 --> 00:48:26.440

Phil: And certainly the production value is such that they're not embarrassing.

00:48:27.300 --> 00:48:35.800

Phil: So I think it'd be a good gateway for younger people that maybe are wondering what happened before, you know, the current crop of games.

00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:44.920

Phil: And then for people who just have a vague interest in what's this video gaming thing all about, I think it at least does the hobby no harm.

00:48:45.380 --> 00:48:47.740

Phil: So it's called High Score on Netflix.

00:48:48.820 --> 00:48:56.860

Phil: I just want to bring that up because video game content on TV is pretty hard to come by most times.

00:48:57.500 --> 00:49:02.040

Tom: And in this case, if it's a Netflix show, then it's also technically not on TV anyway.

00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:03.480

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:09.760

Tom: So we will now move on to another game.

00:49:10.560 --> 00:49:15.040

Tom: And I don't know if you're familiar with it, but have you heard of Project Warlock?

00:49:16.020 --> 00:49:21.080

Phil: I believe that was Winston Churchill's code name for the D-Day attack, wasn't it?

00:49:22.220 --> 00:49:25.440

Tom: No, I think it was a drug in Law and Order.

00:49:25.460 --> 00:49:29.500

Phil: He's been warlocking all night long.

00:49:29.520 --> 00:49:30.640

Phil: Look at those pupils.

00:49:32.540 --> 00:49:34.040

Phil: Skin under his fingernails.

00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:36.360

Phil: They don't know what they're doing when they're warlocking.

00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.960

Phil: So Project Warlock is a video game for what format?

00:49:41.120 --> 00:49:44.480

Tom: I believe it is on the Nintendo Switch.

00:49:44.980 --> 00:49:47.560

Tom: It is on PC.

00:49:47.900 --> 00:49:54.800

Tom: I think it's on the other consoles as well, but I'm not sure it was originally a PC exclusive.

00:49:54.820 --> 00:50:01.020

Tom: It is a first-person shooter, and it is indeed now on PS4 and Xbox One, as well as the Nintendo Switch.

00:50:01.660 --> 00:50:02.120

Tom: It is a...

00:50:03.680 --> 00:50:04.440

Phil: So it's on everything.

00:50:04.460 --> 00:50:07.880

Tom: Yes, on all current-gen consoles, as well as PC.

00:50:08.220 --> 00:50:12.140

Tom: And Linux and Mac OS.

00:50:12.160 --> 00:50:13.360

Phil: That's not a format.

00:50:13.560 --> 00:50:15.140

Phil: Come on, Mac.

00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:17.540

Phil: So, wait.

00:50:17.560 --> 00:50:19.400

Phil: So it's on Switch?

00:50:19.660 --> 00:50:21.000

Tom: Yes.

00:50:21.020 --> 00:50:23.420

Tom: It was just released in June on Switch.

00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:25.680

Phil: Are you playing it on PC or on Switch?

00:50:25.700 --> 00:50:27.320

Tom: I am playing it on PC.

00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:28.360

Phil: Okay.

00:50:29.780 --> 00:50:31.600

Phil: And I have heard of this.

00:50:31.740 --> 00:50:34.080

Phil: It's a first-person shooter in the...

00:50:34.200 --> 00:50:38.840

Phil: like a 90s first-person shooter tribute, isn't it, or something?

00:50:38.860 --> 00:50:44.280

Tom: It's essentially a Wolfenstein-style shooter.

00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:54.960

Tom: And it began, in fact, as a Wolfenstein mod, and you can play that version of the game still.

00:50:54.980 --> 00:50:56.480

Tom: It's only a single level, though.

00:50:56.480 --> 00:51:03.020

Tom: But if you go back and play that, I think it's called Cataclysm 3D or something like that.

00:51:03.940 --> 00:51:09.140

Tom: If you go back and play that, you can certainly see there is potential for something better.

00:51:09.160 --> 00:51:28.400

Tom: It's developed primarily by, I think, David or Dowerd Konrad Kozetsvka, which is certainly pronounced incorrectly, who I believe was born in the year 2000, and this was released in 2018.

00:51:28.460 --> 00:51:40.680

Tom: So it was developed by a teenager, but it is actually extremely good, surprisingly so, considering that it is based on Wolfenstein.

00:51:40.820 --> 00:51:59.160

Tom: And Wolfenstein 3D, at least, is quite difficult, I would say, to go back to, but I remember playing it not so long after release, and it was always a bit uninteresting and slow, to say the least.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:01.420

Phil: Oh, come on, man.

00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:03.540

Phil: Now I sound like Joe Biden.

00:52:03.540 --> 00:52:04.540

Phil: Come on, man.

00:52:04.940 --> 00:52:06.460

Phil: No, it's not.

00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:08.140

Phil: It's super, super fast.

00:52:08.860 --> 00:52:09.980

Phil: I've played it recently.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:12.040

Phil: I've even played it on GBA recently.

00:52:12.140 --> 00:52:15.760

Tom: I played it recently on Steam, the first level or some of it.

00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:17.380

Tom: It is in no way fast.

00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.120

Tom: Your movement is...

00:52:19.140 --> 00:52:33.900

Tom: Technically, your movement is fast, but the corridors are so cavernous, and the number of empty rooms and the lack of mobility of the Nazis make for a pretty slow experience.

00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:45.660

Phil: Yeah, I gotta say, I kind of lost all my credibility when I was describing Deadly Premonition 2 and having no problem with the frame rate, even though it's been absolutely proven that it sometimes drops to 2 frames per second.

00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:52.280

Phil: So my expert testimony can be struck from the testimony.

00:52:53.300 --> 00:53:00.080

Tom: Anyway, it's like Wolfenstein, not in terms of enemy movement and in terms of player movement.

00:53:00.100 --> 00:53:13.400

Tom: If anything, except for after you've unlocked the faster movement speed, the sprinting speed in this is about the same speed or maybe slightly faster than in Wolfenstein 3D.

00:53:13.940 --> 00:53:17.520

Tom: But the similarity is in the way the levels are designed.

00:53:17.540 --> 00:53:22.880

Tom: It's not like Doom where things are a little bit more open and free flowing.

00:53:23.240 --> 00:53:30.280

Tom: It's very much corridor based and labyrinthine in a way that Doom isn't.

00:53:30.700 --> 00:53:40.940

Tom: But this actually works well when the number of enemies that are being thrown at you is significant and that they aggressively attack you.

00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:59.180

Tom: And a lot of them are melee based, so they actually come at you at a fast speed, forcing you to quickly react in your movement as opposed to the original Wolfenstein where you needed to quickly figure out where the enemy was, turn towards them and shoot them.

00:53:59.200 --> 00:54:04.620

Tom: This requires movement from you as you're playing.

00:54:05.700 --> 00:54:17.580

Tom: There's one big issue that I'll get to before we go on to other more positive aspects is that structurally the order of the levels is bizarre.

00:54:18.500 --> 00:54:28.500

Tom: It begins in probably the equal best setting aesthetically and creatively, which is the medieval world.

00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:32.280

Tom: But the issue is, it's also one of the more difficult sections.

00:54:32.300 --> 00:54:43.580

Tom: Once you've completed the first level, you go to Antarctica and then Egypt, both of which are extremely easy compared to the medieval setting.

00:54:43.600 --> 00:54:55.200

Tom: And part of that is because, as I said, a lot of the enemies are Malay based, but so is the gameplay because you are playing as a Warlock and your starting weapon is actually an axe.

00:54:55.420 --> 00:55:09.020

Tom: And you can viably play the game in Malay, but obviously that's a strategy that, one, is helped by the leveling system, which we'll get to in a moment, as well as you having figured out your timing attacks and so forth.

00:55:09.040 --> 00:55:24.840

Tom: So that makes things a little bit more difficult at the beginning, but it is fundamentally the level and enemy design that makes the first level so difficult, because it has some of the more creative enemies in the game.

00:55:24.860 --> 00:55:41.040

Tom: For instance, one of the best enemies in the game is a knight who will use their shield by throwing it at you and essentially trapping you in certain areas, which is a pretty creative thing in a first person shooter.

00:55:41.780 --> 00:56:09.120

Tom: And once you get to Egypt and Alaska, while there are enemies that will do certain more creative things compared to just standard enemies that attack you at a normal speed or wander around shooting at you, there isn't anything on that level which can instantly get you killed if you manage to get stuck behind a shield in an awkward area and bum rushed by several other enemies that are around.

00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:27.320

Tom: And the levels are also a bit more cramped than in the later levels, where they open up because the number of enemies increase, but the amount the levels open up is not equivalent to the number of extra enemies, so it actually results in easier gameplay.

00:56:27.820 --> 00:56:46.360

Tom: And so structurally, it's very, very bizarre that they essentially put one of the hardest levels at the beginning, then two very easy levels following it, and then the difficulty begins to increase a little bit more for the last two areas.

00:56:46.560 --> 00:56:53.400

Tom: And there are five areas in total, and each has, I think, six levels, including a boss battle.

00:56:53.480 --> 00:57:07.220

Tom: And the other interesting thing, which after an update works well, is the difficulty settings, because you've got easy, normal, hard, as well as a single life.

00:57:07.680 --> 00:57:18.740

Tom: So basically on normal and hard, you start with a certain number of lives, and once you lose all your lives, it's game over, and you have to start again at the beginning of the game.

00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:25.220

Tom: And you get lives by finding secrets in the levels throughout the main game.

00:57:25.700 --> 00:57:43.960

Tom: And on hard and normal, you shouldn't have an issue in getting enough lives that you will not ever really be in danger of game over, as long as you are looking for secrets, which essentially just means you're spamming space bar as you're going through the levels so that the hidden doorways open.

00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:47.980

Phil: That's called wall humping.

00:57:48.020 --> 00:57:49.040

Tom: Yes, exactly.

00:57:49.160 --> 00:57:51.540

Phil: Which is something you did in Wolfenstein.

00:57:51.560 --> 00:57:54.540

Phil: You just went along, because you'd always find a secret cache of weapons.

00:57:55.560 --> 00:57:57.560

Tom: I think you did that in Doom as well.

00:57:57.880 --> 00:57:58.700

Phil: You did, yeah.

00:57:58.700 --> 00:58:05.580

Phil: So as you go through time, because this has gone over a period of centuries and millennia really that you're playing this game, right?

00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:14.680

Phil: So as you go through time, I'm assuming the weapons, you start out with an axe, from the screenshots I've seen, you end up with a shotgun for most of the levels, but is there anything in between?

00:58:14.700 --> 00:58:16.660

Tom: Well, that's because the shotgun is so good.

00:58:16.680 --> 00:58:21.580

Tom: A lot of people are probably using the shotgun, but there is a huge number of levels.

00:58:21.600 --> 00:58:30.180

Tom: And once you get to the industrial age, I believe it's called, they start introducing futuristic weapons and things like that.

00:58:31.100 --> 00:58:31.500

Phil: Okay.

00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:37.480

Phil: And you said the levels kind of open up, like the first level is very closed in and claustrophobic.

00:58:39.860 --> 00:58:46.860

Tom: And they all remain labyrinthine and corridor-based with corridors leading into sometimes large rooms.

00:58:47.380 --> 00:59:07.360

Tom: But the actual width of the corridors and the sizes of rooms they lead into increases with the number of enemies that they throw at you, but with the rate of size increasing, a greater rate of the number of enemies until you get to the industrial area, and things begin to get a little bit more difficult.

00:59:07.680 --> 00:59:20.740

Tom: And another thing that they managed to do very well, which is very impressive for a 2D first-person shooter and something that Sirius Sam and the Doom reboots have failed to do.

00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:44.100

Tom: And actually, when you think about it, it probably is actually easier to do in a 2D first-person shooter because the areas are always going to be inherently smaller, and the horizon and sky are going to be more limited, is as you're playing along and you encounter more difficult enemies, the sense of scale is tremendous.

00:59:44.120 --> 01:00:09.280

Tom: So by the end of the game, you are fighting these gigantic mechs and gigantic mystical denizens of hell, and they are suitably gigantic and imposing in a way that the large enemies in Serious Sam and other indie classic inspired first person shooters fail to achieve.

01:00:10.540 --> 01:00:18.980

Phil: Yeah, I thought that there was a lot more games that were based on 90s shooters than I think, because last year a game came out called ION Fury.

01:00:19.720 --> 01:00:23.880

Tom: Yep, there's also Dusk and quite a few others.

01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:36.180

Tom: Following the games like Serious Sam, there has been a return more to the feel of 2D first person shooters.

01:00:36.820 --> 01:00:42.780

Phil: Yeah, ION Fury, which of course was originally released as ION Maiden and then had to be changed.

01:00:43.960 --> 01:00:50.180

Phil: But I wonder what engine that he used for this game or if it's something that he's built from the ground up.

01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:52.180

Phil: Because it's quite a distinctive look.

01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:54.940

Phil: You say it's like Wolfenstein, but we should tell listeners it's actually...

01:00:55.740 --> 01:00:57.200

Tom: I believe it's made in Unity.

01:00:58.040 --> 01:00:59.360

Phil: Okay, yeah.

01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:04.080

Phil: It's far superior in graphics than what obviously Wolfenstein was capable of.

01:01:04.860 --> 01:01:06.780

Phil: But it evokes that.

01:01:08.260 --> 01:01:14.040

Tom: One of the impressive things about the graphic is, in fact, the graphics because while...

01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:26.580

Tom: And again, this is made by a teenager, but I believe that he employed for Project Warlock as opposed to Cataclysm 3D, an art director and a composer as well.

01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:31.120

Tom: So it's not a single person game in terms of all the stuff in it.

01:01:31.140 --> 01:01:36.340

Tom: But the graphic style is very home made.

01:01:36.340 --> 01:01:41.160

Tom: The enemies look like they're out of a web comic or something like that.

01:01:43.580 --> 01:01:49.220

Tom: And nevertheless, that adds to the charm and the home made feel.

01:01:50.040 --> 01:01:54.120

Tom: And there is creativity to what they look like.

01:01:54.420 --> 01:02:07.260

Tom: For instance, you compare the medieval setting in this game to heretic or other first person shooter set in medieval style settings.

01:02:07.420 --> 01:02:11.260

Tom: And they're usually much more over the top.

01:02:11.640 --> 01:02:24.260

Tom: And while they're set in that time period, you're essentially just fighting a bunch of hellish enemies that could be dropped into doom without you really noticing the difference.

01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:39.300

Tom: Whereas in each of this game settings, like the medieval setting, you're fighting demon women that look like something out of a medieval painting, albeit a webcomic version of a medieval painting.

01:02:39.460 --> 01:02:52.700

Tom: You're fighting knights, you're fighting templars and cardinals and magicians and things like that that do not just look like something out of doom.

01:02:53.700 --> 01:02:57.540

Tom: And that applies to each of the different settings as well.

01:03:00.020 --> 01:03:02.440

Phil: So the name of the game we're talking about is Project Warlock.

01:03:02.440 --> 01:03:03.260

Phil: It's rated M.

01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:04.320

Phil: It's available on Switch.

01:03:04.340 --> 01:03:05.640

Phil: It was recently released there.

01:03:06.040 --> 01:03:08.860

Phil: It's under 14 bucks right now.

01:03:09.260 --> 01:03:18.480

Phil: So as much as I'd hate to play a first-person shooter on the Switch, mobile, just because of the controls, I'm thinking it's probably the way I'll go.

01:03:18.500 --> 01:03:23.320

Phil: And maybe I can just play it docked and use the, you know, a regular controller.

01:03:23.500 --> 01:03:25.640

Tom: I would say it's definitely worth 14 dollars.

01:03:26.240 --> 01:03:26.980

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:03:27.180 --> 01:03:28.440

Phil: No, I'll definitely pick it up.

01:03:30.620 --> 01:03:56.920

Tom: When you do get to the final level, which is based in HAL, another really creative thing it does is you essentially go through before a mainly HAL based area, HAL versions of the previous settings with them overtaken by HAL-ish versions of the original characters in those levels, which is a great touch.

01:03:57.160 --> 01:04:09.960

Tom: And on top of that, at the end of each level, you get to a boss fight, which is worth bringing up because there's a great range in quality of them.

01:04:12.020 --> 01:04:19.700

Tom: Some of them are satisfying and a challenge to fight against, essentially the first and last boss.

01:04:20.520 --> 01:04:28.760

Tom: But the rest really are, their attacks are really easy to strafe dodge, and they're never really a threat at all.

01:04:28.900 --> 01:04:35.800

Tom: And as long as you have been upgrading your weapons, you can kill them without being killed at all.

01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:45.680

Tom: And that is one issue, is once you get past the first level on hard, my experience was that the game was really easy.

01:04:45.700 --> 01:04:52.520

Tom: You begin with three lives, and I ended up with 40, 50 lives by the end of the game.

01:04:52.960 --> 01:05:04.080

Tom: And I died a total of maybe four or five times, and three of those four or five deaths was me walking into lava.

01:05:05.080 --> 01:05:06.280

Tom: As opposed to being killed.

01:05:06.300 --> 01:05:07.600

Phil: You can't do that.

01:05:07.900 --> 01:05:10.940

Phil: I'd say that the ease of the end boss is...

01:05:11.060 --> 01:05:14.560

Tom: No, no, the end boss was one of the two challenging bosses.

01:05:14.600 --> 01:05:25.380

Phil: So what I meant to say was the level bosses, like the mini bosses as we used to call them, I'd say that's consistent with the genre and the time period, so I don't have a problem with that.

01:05:25.640 --> 01:05:32.920

Phil: I do have a problem with the fact that you only died three or four times in the entire game, because that's certainly not true to the genre.

01:05:33.420 --> 01:05:34.580

Tom: Certainly not on hard?

01:05:35.300 --> 01:05:35.660

Phil: No.

01:05:35.680 --> 01:05:41.460

Phil: So that does concern me, because ultimately if you're just mowing through the game, that doesn't sound very satisfying.

01:05:41.780 --> 01:05:58.480

Tom: Well, it is, because in spite of that, the minute-to-minute fights can be very satisfying, and something that it does that is very impressive because a lot of games that are going for the retro FPS design do not do this.

01:05:58.500 --> 01:06:01.960

Tom: Doom was one that actually did succeed in this.

01:06:03.060 --> 01:06:20.720

Tom: One of the great things about the original Doom and Quake and old first-person shooters is that there's this dynamic where when you're on top, you are moving forwards and pushing the enemy back, and when you're overwhelmed, you are running backwards, being chased by the enemies.

01:06:20.740 --> 01:06:33.720

Tom: Most, at least 3D ones, but from footage on YouTube, it applies to potentially other more 2D-based first-person shooters classics as well.

01:06:34.120 --> 01:06:35.420

Tom: Sorry, indie classics.

01:06:37.380 --> 01:06:56.480

Tom: You are mainly just being pushed backwards, which is fun, but it is not as dynamic and not as interesting as where you have both more dynamic fights, which allow you to be on top and also scrambling just to survive.

01:06:56.500 --> 01:07:03.780

Tom: And while you are not necessarily going to be dying, marching Project Warlock, the minute-to-minute fights nevertheless have that dynamic.

01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:18.920

Tom: And often you will end up, until you have upgraded your health to a certain level, and even then, if you do happen to get swamped, you will often end up running away, looking for health and that sort of thing.

01:07:19.220 --> 01:07:26.860

Tom: So, while you're not necessarily dying much, there is nevertheless a satisfying challenge to the actual combat itself.

01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:31.960

Tom: And the weapon design and the sound effects and the animations are exceptional.

01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:38.920

Tom: And the other important thing which we haven't got to yet is the leveling system and upgrade system.

01:07:39.100 --> 01:07:45.160

Tom: Essentially, every weapon except for one or two in the game has two upgrades.

01:07:45.180 --> 01:07:46.440

Tom: You can only choose one of them.

01:07:48.040 --> 01:07:56.960

Tom: And so, for instance, if you upgrade, if you get the double barrel shotgun, you can upgrade that to have four barrels instead of two.

01:07:57.220 --> 01:08:11.760

Tom: So that you're doing four times the base damage of the shotgun which essentially makes it the best weapon for straight up damage as long as you can get close enough to enemies to get the full spread hitting them.

01:08:13.140 --> 01:08:18.480

Tom: You can also do changes to weapons that completely change how they work.

01:08:18.500 --> 01:08:37.320

Tom: For instance, the standard shotgun as opposed to the double barrel shotgun, one of the upgrades for that allows you to use it as a medium and long range weapon, which obviously totally alters how you're using a shotgun and actually makes it one of the most powerful weapons at that range.

01:08:37.820 --> 01:08:46.020

Tom: You can also do things like get a laser rifle and change it into a rail gun or a fully automatic rifle.

01:08:46.940 --> 01:08:58.440

Tom: There's a flamethrower, and you can change the flamethrower to being a long range weapon or even more of a flamethrower and things like that, which really make the combat interesting.

01:08:58.460 --> 01:09:00.720

Tom: And the other thing is, I mentioned things like flamethrowers.

01:09:02.400 --> 01:09:10.060

Tom: Things like fire stay in the level and catch enemies on fire, and so there are little details like that to the combat as well.

01:09:11.280 --> 01:09:20.000

Tom: And the leveling system affects your maximum health, how much ammo you can carry, how much melee damage you do, and things like that.

01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:22.620

Tom: So you can also customize how you play.

01:09:22.640 --> 01:09:27.380

Tom: And again, another interesting mechanic, which also contributed to me not dying as much.

01:09:27.400 --> 01:09:29.620

Tom: If you didn't do this, I would have died a lot more.

01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:35.780

Tom: I still would not have been in danger of game over at any point though, except for past during the first level.

01:09:36.140 --> 01:09:47.340

Tom: But the leveling system allows you to do interesting things like, for instance, if you level up your health and upgrade your...

01:09:47.400 --> 01:09:52.240

Tom: Sorry, the leveling system doesn't just do things like affect your base stats, it also gives you perks.

01:09:52.260 --> 01:10:07.980

Tom: So one of the perks is that if you hit an enemy with the axe, you regain a little bit of health, which encourages you if you are playing mainly with guns, to use the axe more, to recover health whenever you're able to, and things like that.

01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:22.160

Tom: So in spite of its lack of difficulty, it makes up for that in the complexity of both the minute-to-minute gameplay as well as how you're able to customize your character as well as the weapons.

01:10:23.820 --> 01:10:25.680

Phil: It's certainly something I'm definitely...

01:10:26.100 --> 01:10:33.020

Phil: Well, I'm going to get this game, but I'm wondering if it's going to open the door to me getting Iron Fury as well and looking at other games in a genre.

01:10:33.820 --> 01:10:44.720

Phil: Because it would be interesting to see a modern game taking the best elements of a genre from 30 years ago and reinventing it and rediscovering it.

01:10:46.060 --> 01:10:50.720

Phil: Because, yeah, often it is difficult to go back to some of those games, so I'd argue that...

01:10:50.940 --> 01:10:53.000

Tom: Well, you can certainly go back to Doom 1 and 2.

01:10:53.020 --> 01:10:54.060

Phil: You definitely can, yeah.

01:10:54.900 --> 01:10:57.260

Phil: Absolutely, which I do quite often, so...

01:10:57.280 --> 01:11:12.840

Tom: Yep, and the one last thing to add to that, which is the spell system, as well as the axe that you start the game with, you also start off with a staff, which shoots...

01:11:13.740 --> 01:11:18.760

Tom: The base staff shoots out a magical attack, so essentially that's your opening range weapon.

01:11:18.780 --> 01:11:25.080

Tom: And the staff's spells, which aren't just that, which we'll get to in a minute, uses up mana.

01:11:25.100 --> 01:11:33.040

Tom: So as you're going through the levels, you're not just looking for health, you're also looking for mana pickups as well, so that you can use your spells.

01:11:33.260 --> 01:11:37.380

Tom: And the spells open up a lot more than that.

01:11:37.920 --> 01:12:00.800

Tom: You get spells that essentially allow you to use a buff version of the dynamite, which is basically the grenades of the game, but like old first-person shooters, the base dynamite you have to switch to to throw them, like in old games where you couldn't just press a bound key to throw a grenade, you had to actually select it as a weapon.

01:12:02.320 --> 01:12:13.920

Tom: That's how the dynamite works in this, but there is a spell that allows you to throw your dynamite, a slightly buff version of it, and your spell is not selected like a weapon, that's your right mouse button attack.

01:12:14.160 --> 01:12:20.700

Tom: So that actually adds a grenade mechanic essentially to an otherwise old school first person shooter system.

01:12:21.740 --> 01:12:28.620

Tom: You can also get spells that will freeze enemies and then you just hit them once or twice to break them.

01:12:30.320 --> 01:12:41.840

Tom: You can also get spells that will protect you, which you'll use when you're getting mobbed and things like that, and spells that are basically a really powerful ranged attack.

01:12:42.620 --> 01:12:55.080

Tom: So the spell system, while limited, because you can only have one spell selected at one time, and to change it, you have to change it between levels, it again adds another wrinkle to how you're able to play.

01:12:55.180 --> 01:13:09.020

Tom: And in the last couple of levels of how we are really getting swamped with enemies, your spells that allow you to get out of situations where you're getting mobbed by a huge number of enemies is extremely useful.

01:13:09.160 --> 01:14:13.660

Tom: And the one other highlight of the game that I have to bring up is the final boss battle makes up for the lackluster previous boss battles, with the exception of the first, which was a reasonably good first mini boss, in that it not only takes ages to destroy and long enough to suck up all your ammo so that you are having to scavenge ammo while avoiding some somewhat difficult to avoid attacks, particularly compared to previous bosses, it also spawns an endless slew of enemies that are chasing you around the map as you are looking for ammo pickups to replenish your constantly depleting ammo, and it is a lot of fun and a creative take on first person shooter bosses in a way that I can't recall having come across a boss battle that manages to combine summoned enemies as well as use up your ammo where you are really being pinched.

01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:21.000

Tom: And it's a nice change of pace where the entire time you are being chased and basically never doing the chasing.

01:14:22.980 --> 01:14:26.980

Phil: This guy, like this guy, this guy who made the game.

01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:33.440

Phil: Now I know there's like five credits on it, but two of them are composers, so it's really only four people that made the game, so I'm bound to like it.

01:14:35.180 --> 01:14:36.720

Phil: Do you know if he's done anything since?

01:14:36.740 --> 01:14:39.560

Phil: I mean, the game was released in 2018, it doesn't re-release.

01:14:39.580 --> 01:14:42.460

Tom: I don't think he's done anything yet other than porting it.

01:14:43.140 --> 01:14:46.440

Phil: Yeah, because there's no internet link for him anywhere.

01:14:47.660 --> 01:14:59.500

Phil: Like I found that he does some freelance 2D artwork and stuff like that, but it would be good to see him do something in the game space again.

01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:07.360

Phil: I can also understand that if the game was released in 2018, he probably spent at least two years on it prior to that.

01:15:07.940 --> 01:15:14.560

Phil: And for the last two years, he's probably been working on these other releases for other consoles and things.

01:15:14.700 --> 01:15:23.440

Tom: And you mentioned the composers, which reminded me of the soundtrack, which also is suitably home-made feeling in a good way.

01:15:23.440 --> 01:15:35.380

Tom: It's like some random heavy metal or hard rock that you would find on Bandcamp, essentially, which is a perfect fit for the whole vibe of the game.

01:15:35.820 --> 01:15:39.440

Phil: I was expecting death metal.

01:15:39.460 --> 01:15:41.140

Tom: Death metal is a type of heavy metal.

01:15:41.640 --> 01:15:42.780

Phil: Oh, yeah, but I'm saying...

01:15:43.020 --> 01:15:45.640

Tom: I don't mean heavy metal as in hair metal.

01:15:45.780 --> 01:15:51.080

Tom: I mean in the vein of death metal or a pop-ish version of black metal.

01:15:51.660 --> 01:15:52.440

Phil: Okay, cool.

01:15:53.580 --> 01:15:54.000

Phil: Excellent.

01:15:54.980 --> 01:15:58.920

Tom: With a few prog rock guitar lines thrown in.

01:16:02.300 --> 01:16:09.580

Tom: But I think we're ready for the Die of Destiny to place judgement over Project Warlock.

01:16:10.540 --> 01:16:10.960

Phil: Indeed.

01:16:13.300 --> 01:16:15.320

Tom: And it gets a 9 out of 10.

01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:16.280

Tom: Wow!

01:16:18.080 --> 01:16:19.580

Phil: Die of Destines.

01:16:19.820 --> 01:16:24.880

Phil: Maybe we should ask it for a review of Deadly Premonition 2's first impressions while we're on a good rock.

01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:26.540

Tom: Let's find out.

01:16:29.100 --> 01:16:32.520

Tom: You don't want to tempt fate because that's a 4 out of 10.

01:16:33.500 --> 01:16:34.220

Phil: Yeah, no.

01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:41.440

Phil: Well, that's probably a review of my impressions rather than the game itself because we haven't closed out that game yet.

01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:47.080

Phil: I'd give my impressions at least a 4 out of 10, given that I left all my notes at work.

01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:52.360

Tom: So, the Die of Destiny remains accurate then.

01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:53.140

Phil: Yeah.

01:16:53.320 --> 01:17:01.300

Phil: Hey, speaking of leaving my notes at work, I just realised, same voice actor for the lead protagonist and same music.

01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:08.780

Phil: So, there is new music and there is new music based on the old music, but they also have the old music as well.

01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:10.780

Phil: So, it really does take you back to the original.

01:17:11.240 --> 01:17:11.640

Tom: Excellent.

01:17:12.320 --> 01:17:15.760

Phil: Speaking of games that take us back to the original, I believe you've also been playing...

01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:27.880

Tom: I have indeed also been playing Metro Last Light's DLC in both the redo and original version.

01:17:27.900 --> 01:17:31.260

Tom: That's right, I played the DLC twice.

01:17:32.960 --> 01:17:40.980

Tom: Not necessarily because it was that good, though some of it was, but just mainly to compare the two versions of the games.

01:17:41.260 --> 01:17:54.800

Tom: And I believe that the original version of both Metro 2033 and Last Light are not available anymore, so you are only able to get the remade versions of those games.

01:17:54.940 --> 01:17:59.980

Tom: The good thing is that they don't really change too much.

01:18:01.020 --> 01:18:06.260

Tom: Visually, there's a bigger difference in 2033, but we're talking about Last Light here.

01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:22.080

Tom: The main difference is just in terms of the textures, the lighting, and the biggest changes are to character models, where in some cases the art style is indeed totally changed, at least in the DLC.

01:18:23.200 --> 01:18:34.100

Tom: The biggest example of this is with the Nazis, although they're referred to as fascists in the Russian, so I don't know whether they're meant to be Nazis or just fascists in general.

01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:49.600

Tom: In the books, I believe, they were meant to be some form of Neo-Nazi rather than simply fascists, so the translation may not be incorrect, but their models have been totally changed.

01:18:49.620 --> 01:19:17.180

Tom: In the original Last Light, they looked sort of like some sort of gas mask type character you might meet in a BDSM club, as opposed to someone dressed up, wanting to look like a cool Nazi, wearing gas mask, whereas in the redo version of the game, they do look a bit more like someone dressing up as a cool Nazi.

01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:19.420

Tom: So that's the biggest change there.

01:19:19.780 --> 01:19:36.160

Tom: But what actually affects the atmosphere more is the lighting and the texture effects, and I've seen a lot of commentary on the internet suggesting that the original is darker visually and that a lot of the atmosphere is diminished as a result of it.

01:19:36.860 --> 01:19:44.340

Tom: That was not my experience with the gamma set to the same in both games, so maybe updates later on have altered that.

01:19:44.660 --> 01:19:47.880

Tom: But the lighting effects are very welcome.

01:19:47.900 --> 01:19:55.440

Tom: They offer more depth to some of the shadows and a little bit better in variation in contrast.

01:19:56.840 --> 01:20:07.760

Tom: And the textures make a big difference where they have been changed in just resulting in a sharper look without and a better level of detail as well.

01:20:09.280 --> 01:20:12.660

Phil: So I know you already mentioned this, but this is not like new.

01:20:13.200 --> 01:20:17.460

Phil: They haven't been working on this, and this is new like DLC.

01:20:17.480 --> 01:20:19.800

Phil: This is something that you're comparing as a comparison.

01:20:19.820 --> 01:20:26.440

Tom: Yeah, I went back to play this after playing the Exodus DLC out of interest.

01:20:27.800 --> 01:20:29.840

Phil: Okay, which is, yeah, it's worthwhile doing.

01:20:29.860 --> 01:20:38.980

Phil: I mean, I went back and played the original Crackdown when I finished Crackdown 3, just because I was wondering, like, was my mind's eye different from reality?

01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:41.120

Phil: So...

01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:49.240

Tom: And one thing I will add on the Exodus DLC and Exodus was corrected.

01:20:49.560 --> 01:20:56.020

Tom: So I was not misinterpreted when I said that there is some truth to Hobbes' state of nature.

01:20:56.520 --> 01:21:33.860

Tom: I would not support the idea that there is necessarily any more truth to the Hobbesian state of nature than when people deliberately want to create a Hobbesian state of nature where they would like to essentially destabilise the era and importantly keep it in a state of destabilisation by funding sides fighting against one another or direct involvement themselves, which is what is usually brought up as evidence of a Hobbesian state of nature.

01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:46.020

Tom: But it's worth remembering that in this Hobbesian supposed state of nature, there are often people who are deliberately interested in keeping it in a state of nature.

01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:59.020

Tom: And if you need to keep something in a state of nature rather than the state of nature spontaneously appearing, according to the Hobbesian state of nature, that does not support his argument.

01:22:01.220 --> 01:22:03.860

Phil: I'll have to take your word for it.

01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:06.000

Phil: Does the DLC explore that?

01:22:06.780 --> 01:22:09.500

Tom: No, it doesn't, which is one of the disappointing things about it.

01:22:09.500 --> 01:22:09.900

Phil: Yeah.

01:22:11.540 --> 01:22:14.440

Tom: The DLC sadly does not go into that level of detail.

01:22:14.540 --> 01:22:27.440

Tom: And I also, unfortunately, I think gave it a disservice by comparing it to Lord of the Flies in its Russian Scout scenario in the main game.

01:22:29.040 --> 01:22:41.140

Tom: But again, it was actually not like that at all, where it was in fact a comparison of two slightly different philosophical groups combining together.

01:22:41.160 --> 01:22:56.180

Tom: And the Lord of the Flies description, its state of nature, has no evidence behind it, whatever, and is merely an oft-repeated paranoid delusion by people with depression, essentially.

01:22:58.500 --> 01:23:08.560

Phil: So in comparing the two, because you said you can't get the original anymore, like you can only get the upgraded visuals now, is that right if I went out and bought Metro 2033 on Steam?

01:23:08.580 --> 01:23:11.340

Tom: It would be the Redux version, correct?

01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:13.120

Phil: Yeah, so you can't get the original.

01:23:13.120 --> 01:23:17.580

Phil: But in going back to it, was it something that...

01:23:18.380 --> 01:23:25.000

Phil: were you amazed at how different it looked, or was it more subtle than that?

01:23:25.020 --> 01:23:28.380

Tom: Well, we went into detail of the comparison between the two versions.

01:23:28.400 --> 01:23:35.160

Tom: What I think is a more interesting comparison is to Exodus, which was the reason I went back to it.

01:23:36.440 --> 01:23:42.700

Tom: And again, the detail of crafting available in Exodus is on a totally different level.

01:23:43.100 --> 01:24:05.780

Tom: And in Last Light, the weapons, once you've made a few alterations to them, it doesn't really change how they function to a great degree, whereas in Last Light, like in Stalker, the customisation is such that you can turn one weapon, you would expect to do one thing, essentially to a completely different type of weapon.

01:24:06.640 --> 01:24:15.620

Tom: The other thing that reflects very well on Exodus is the gunplay and noises.

01:24:15.660 --> 01:24:23.220

Tom: Everything just feels harder and beefier and heavier in Exodus compared to Last Light.

01:24:23.240 --> 01:24:33.620

Tom: But what does hold up, and the gunplay still holds up, because even though it's not on the level of Exodus, it's still better than the majority of first-person shooters out there.

01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:53.380

Tom: What still stands out and is as good as Exodus, every bit is good, and in some areas more consistently good, due to it being a more linear structure, is the way that the combat and flow of the combat works.

01:24:53.400 --> 01:25:10.100

Tom: It's actually, we were talking about how Project Exodus manages to have a dynamic where when you're on top, you're forcing your way forwards and enemies are retreating, and when you're overwhelmed, they're forcing you backwards and you're retreating.

01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:28.200

Tom: Metro is one of the few first-person shooters until things like Doom and this latest batch of retro indie first-person shooters to achieve that.

01:25:28.500 --> 01:26:07.340

Tom: It does it in a tighter area and in a slightly more limited way than the retro indie games do and Doom does, but there is absolutely that dynamic to the combat where when you manage to figure out a good strategy in terms of where you are in the level and where the enemies are, and also what weapons you have and how much ammo and so forth, you are absolutely forcing the enemies into retreat and the AI will indeed run away to some degree and try and hide and so on and so forth.

01:26:07.820 --> 01:26:15.820

Tom: And when you have stuffed up, you will absolutely be running away and trying to hide again and reconsider what you need to do.

01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:20.520

Tom: Or you may in fact be running out of ammo and essentially screwed.

01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:23.960

Tom: But it has that dynamic which very few games do.

01:26:24.380 --> 01:26:59.560

Tom: And not only does it have that dynamic, it also has a lot of Rainbow Six in it in the tighter areas where you start off at an entrance to an area and there are a bunch of enemies and you need to figure out how to get from point A to point B through the enemies exactly in the way you do in a Rainbow Six game with a reasonable amount of pre-planning and slightly more overt stealth in this, but in Rainbow Six as well, stealth was always an important part of the gameplay.

01:26:59.860 --> 01:27:10.400

Tom: It is pretty impressive that they managed to combine those two styles of shooter gameplay because they usually do not go together.

01:27:10.640 --> 01:27:18.160

Tom: For instance, in Rainbow Six, if you stuff up, you're not going to be retreating, you're going to be dead.

01:27:19.040 --> 01:27:23.840

Tom: So you don't really have this forwards and backwards dynamic that is there in Metro.

01:27:24.320 --> 01:27:51.200

Tom: And Metro manages to combine this sense of planning and importance of following routes through the area and killing enemies at certain times based on where other enemies are and so forth that Rainbow Six has while combining it with the dynamic enemy reactions and movement of more traditional first person shooters.

01:27:51.440 --> 01:27:52.840

Phil: I love that aspect of it.

01:27:52.860 --> 01:28:02.200

Phil: And the reason why you don't see it in many first person shooters in terms of the retreating and all of that sort of thing and rethinking and like, okay, how are we going to do this and forethought and planning.

01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:11.820

Phil: The reason I imagine you don't see this in a lot of first person shooters is because they're essentially power fantasies where all you're doing is plowing forward and mowing down enemies.

01:28:12.940 --> 01:28:19.800

Phil: To the point, even in Call of Duty, often you can just basically outrun everyone and get to the end of the level.

01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:22.500

Phil: Now, that's not always true, but in some levels it is.

01:28:24.380 --> 01:28:36.060

Phil: So I can see why that wouldn't be common, but I find it, when I think back of my best first person shooter experiences, it's always about how I got myself into trouble and how I got myself out of trouble.

01:28:37.440 --> 01:28:38.040

Tom: Absolutely.

01:28:39.520 --> 01:28:59.060

Tom: And the DLC pack, and I think you'd get it by default in the new versions of the game, so you'll be getting the DLC regardless, consists of several different levels, some of which are not really worth talking about, but there are several highlights.

01:28:59.500 --> 01:29:03.200

Tom: One of them is, in fact, three very short little levels.

01:29:03.460 --> 01:29:29.440

Tom: One is only like 10 minutes, two others are 20 minutes, which follow characters in a similar vein to the DLC, the two kernels in Metro Exodus, as they are doing stuff in the main story when they were off screen, essentially, or in the case of one of them where you're playing as Anna when you are going along with Artyom and helping him.

01:29:30.260 --> 01:29:55.260

Tom: And they're not like the two kernels in that they add anything to the main story, but they are interesting in the stories following Pavel and Khan in that they, both of those are interesting characters from the main story and in this you get to learn a little bit more about them, even if it doesn't really contribute much to the main plot's understanding.

01:29:56.240 --> 01:30:12.500

Tom: The other highlight is a level which is more based on a combination of stealth and then like in the other DLC, sorry, like half of the two kernels in Metro Exodus, you are then given a flamethrower.

01:30:12.780 --> 01:30:31.220

Tom: So, but unlike in the two kernels, you are against spiders in a cave, essentially, and that allows for a slightly different take on gameplay than the main game because the flamethrower is a pretty different weapon to use throughout an entire level compared to the normal guns.

01:30:32.340 --> 01:30:40.280

Tom: And the other highlight is the most interesting of them all because it's sort of a precursor to Metro Exodus.

01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:57.660

Tom: It's somewhat open world in that essentially you are looking for artifacts, stalk style in the library and its surrounding environs and you can collect them in whatever order you please.

01:30:58.180 --> 01:31:10.820

Tom: So that is very much feels like something that may have led to Metro Exodus or something they were experimenting in with some knowledge of where they were planning to take the series in the future.

01:31:12.480 --> 01:31:20.460

Phil: You know, I was bemoaning the fact a couple of shows ago that these guys are sticking with Metro, but that's kind of become the way for a lot of studios.

01:31:20.480 --> 01:31:33.860

Phil: If you look at like your club games with Shovel Knight and the Rocket League guys, I mean, you know, you can make a career out of a single game at this point, even if it's not a service game.

01:31:34.520 --> 01:31:43.880

Phil: It's something like Metro where you can be releasing these DLCs and upgrades and everything else in between the main installations in a series.

01:31:45.460 --> 01:31:53.440

Phil: But it's also interesting at the same time that, you know, games like Gran Turismo and Killzone and everything else get stale over time to a degree.

01:31:54.240 --> 01:31:58.620

Phil: So I think for small teams, it's probably the way to go.

01:31:59.120 --> 01:32:20.660

Phil: But I noticed that even like a small-ish studio, but still substantial one like Rocksteady that did the Arkham games, you know, their new game is The Suicide Squad, and they're saying it's basically a continuation of the Arkhamverse, which to me is really disappointing because I was a fan of Rocksteady's games prior to the Arkham world.

01:32:21.220 --> 01:32:22.480

Phil: The first Arkham game was good.

01:32:22.500 --> 01:32:24.300

Phil: I didn't bother finishing the second one.

01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:26.500

Phil: I didn't even bother buying the third one.

01:32:28.360 --> 01:32:36.660

Phil: So, yeah, it's just interesting how different studios are able to live off of one title, but with other studios, it just stops becoming fresh.

01:32:37.700 --> 01:33:05.460

Tom: And to their credit, unlike, I would argue, a Rocksteady with the Arkham series, though they did do some things to change it up to some degree, 4A games like Guerrilla Games with Killzone have managed to make all three Metro games very, very different projects while still maintaining some of the core idea in each installment.

01:33:06.600 --> 01:33:15.720

Tom: So it doesn't result in a particularly creatively bereft direction for them to go in.

01:33:16.420 --> 01:33:25.540

Phil: I think too, if you look at Killzone and the Metro world, they're evocative environments that you want to explore and know and learn more about.

01:33:26.280 --> 01:33:33.300

Phil: Whereas with Gran Turismo, well, it's the same tracks every time, it's the same cars for the most part, a little bit prettier.

01:33:33.900 --> 01:33:39.360

Phil: The Batman universe has been explored beyond what it ever should have been.

01:33:40.680 --> 01:33:43.640

Phil: And so it might have to do with the content and the subject matter.

01:33:44.320 --> 01:33:45.180

Tom: I think that would help.

01:33:45.200 --> 01:33:53.520

Tom: There's certainly more creative potential in the Metro novels than there is in the Batman comics.

01:33:53.900 --> 01:33:54.460

Phil: Good Lord.

01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:00.480

Phil: Yes.

01:34:00.500 --> 01:34:02.860

Phil: Anyway, that's kind of a little bit of news as well.

01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:07.580

Phil: I mean, are you completely disinterested in Rocksteady's direction at this point?

01:34:09.520 --> 01:34:13.620

Tom: Well, I was disinterested in their direction where they made another Arkham game.

01:34:15.180 --> 01:34:16.960

Phil: Well, here's some other news for you to react to.

01:34:17.380 --> 01:34:21.520

Phil: The guy that made Five Nights at Freddy's, Scott Cawthorn...

01:34:22.240 --> 01:34:25.460

Tom: That's someone who is living off the one series, if ever that was.

01:34:25.900 --> 01:34:27.240

Phil: Yeah, but it's working for him.

01:34:27.260 --> 01:34:29.980

Phil: I'm just going to read this here.

01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:35.720

Phil: He's working with a number of amateur developers to support and ultimately release the fan community's greatest fan-made creations.

01:34:37.540 --> 01:34:43.740

Phil: And so he's funding fan games so that it can be released multi-platform.

01:34:44.600 --> 01:34:49.960

Phil: And yeah, he says, Hi guys, I wanted to tell you about a little project that I've been working on for a while now.

01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:56.400

Phil: It's a giant collaboration involving several fan game creators who have made some of the most popular fan games over the years in the community.

01:34:57.800 --> 01:35:03.720

Phil: It's designed to invest in those franchises, give back to the developers, and hopefully bring new entries in those franchises as well.

01:35:04.400 --> 01:35:09.400

Phil: So yeah, that's a really great move on his part.

01:35:09.500 --> 01:35:10.440

Tom: Yep, that is cool.

01:35:11.440 --> 01:35:21.820

Tom: And given the quality of some of the Five Nights at Freddy animations I've seen, that could actually work out well.

01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:26.160

Phil: Maybe team size has something to do with it as well.

01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:45.360

Phil: Or at least if you're keeping a small team, or if a majority of the team that you're keeping has the original creators of that franchise still involved with it, so that it's not getting diluted every single time, that may have something to do with it as well.

01:35:45.380 --> 01:35:45.680

Phil: Who knows?

01:35:45.700 --> 01:35:59.340

Tom: It's also something I think that a lot of people would be interested in doing, because you see this sort of thing occurring in other mediums all the time where it's easier to do that.

01:35:59.420 --> 01:36:07.600

Tom: Now the internet bandwidth, widely available, is allowing that sort of thing to be done with games without too much difficulty as well.

01:36:09.080 --> 01:36:09.480

Phil: Absolutely.

01:36:09.900 --> 01:36:17.180

Phil: And the godsail with itch.io really revealed to me, like we've all had these ideas, like, oh, I've got this idea for a game.

01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:23.540

Phil: And we're thinking, oh, if only I could get this idea to the right people, it'd be a great game.

01:36:23.760 --> 01:36:29.440

Phil: And then the profusion of games that you see on itch.io is kind of like, yeah, a lot of people have an idea for a game.

01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:39.560

Phil: And some of those ideas are quite good and can fill out a couple of hour games or an eight hour game or a 14 or 20 hour game.

01:36:40.140 --> 01:36:41.820

Phil: And others just shouldn't be made.

01:36:41.840 --> 01:36:44.360

Phil: I think they should be made.

01:36:45.040 --> 01:36:45.700

Phil: No, they should.

01:36:45.900 --> 01:36:49.500

Phil: And the bandwidth of the internet, as you said, put them out there.

01:36:49.820 --> 01:36:53.740

Phil: Have you started playing the next game that we're both going to play on itch.io yet?

01:36:53.760 --> 01:36:56.560

Tom: Well, that just reminded me because you said a few hours.

01:36:56.660 --> 01:37:02.980

Tom: I actually played an itch.io game, not from the pack, but I would highly recommend it.

01:37:04.760 --> 01:37:09.840

Tom: It's about two to four minutes long, depending how long you take.

01:37:09.860 --> 01:37:11.560

Tom: It is a horror game.

01:37:11.580 --> 01:37:17.460

Tom: It's not particularly frightening, but it is quite an amusing and quaint atmosphere.

01:37:17.940 --> 01:37:30.600

Tom: And it's interesting because it is great to see people finally using PlayStation 1 graphics and the great potential that has for atmosphere and visual effect.

01:37:31.660 --> 01:37:42.080

Tom: It's taken this long for indie people to grow the balls, to be able to do what they should have been doing from the beginning, as well as pixel art.

01:37:42.560 --> 01:37:51.300

Tom: And this is a great example of the aesthetic potential of using PlayStation 1 style graphics.

01:37:51.940 --> 01:37:58.560

Tom: And that game is Stonehouse Orphanage, and it is free on itch.io.

01:38:01.080 --> 01:38:04.700

Phil: Stonehouse Orphanage, okay, and it's two to three minutes long, depending on how...

01:38:04.820 --> 01:38:05.860

Tom: Two to four minutes.

01:38:06.840 --> 01:38:08.800

Phil: Depending on the difficulty level, I'm sure.

01:38:09.140 --> 01:38:09.480

Tom: Yes.

01:38:10.320 --> 01:38:11.860

Phil: Yeah.

01:38:12.240 --> 01:38:16.960

Phil: And so probably the next podcast will be giving impressions of Night in the Woods, right?

01:38:17.140 --> 01:38:19.640

Phil: Are you going to be able to get time to start that, or...?

01:38:19.660 --> 01:38:25.500

Tom: Well, I have started it, so it will depend on how far into it we are.

01:38:25.880 --> 01:38:26.580

Phil: Yes, indeed.

01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:27.680

Phil: I'm hoping to get...

01:38:27.700 --> 01:38:28.980

Phil: I'm hoping to beat it.

01:38:29.360 --> 01:38:32.400

Phil: So, let's see how we go.

01:38:32.660 --> 01:38:37.020

Tom: Vampyr is also a potential contender for the next episode.

01:38:37.820 --> 01:38:38.520

Phil: I'm sorry, which?

01:38:39.380 --> 01:38:42.400

Tom: Vampyr by Don't Nod Studios.

01:38:44.640 --> 01:38:46.480

Phil: But back to Tom Towers' reaction to the news.

01:38:47.200 --> 01:38:49.560

Phil: What do you make of this whole Fortnite...

01:38:49.580 --> 01:38:55.200

Phil: Fortnite is being stolen from people who want to play it, is the message I get.

01:38:56.060 --> 01:39:04.840

Tom: Just like I believe the Australian government is stealing the news from Google, or Google is stealing the news from News Corp.

01:39:05.540 --> 01:39:07.420

Tom: One way or the other, I'm not sure which it is.

01:39:07.740 --> 01:39:12.020

Tom: But there are a lot of people on the internet currently stealing from each other.

01:39:13.080 --> 01:39:13.700

Tom: Apparently.

01:39:13.960 --> 01:39:26.500

Phil: Down here in Australia, if you go on YouTube, I think starting yesterday, at least that's when I noticed it, they're putting up all this propaganda about the Australian government is going to basically ruin Google Search.

01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:29.140

Phil: And I read the whole thing, and I'm like, yeah, whatever.

01:39:29.280 --> 01:39:32.360

Tom: I think Google already ruined its search engine.

01:39:32.380 --> 01:39:33.060

Phil: Absolutely.

01:39:34.040 --> 01:39:38.260

Phil: My theory is I don't care who's right or wrong, if it's hurting Google, then that's good.

01:39:38.280 --> 01:39:38.940

Tom: You're all for it.

01:39:39.120 --> 01:39:40.040

Phil: I'm all for it.

01:39:41.280 --> 01:39:45.020

Phil: So I don't care who is going to be the beneficiary.

01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:47.560

Phil: As long as Google is the loser.

01:39:47.880 --> 01:39:48.200

Phil: Exactly.

01:39:49.940 --> 01:39:55.820

Phil: But yeah, apparently Apple is forbidding people from playing Fortnite.

01:39:55.960 --> 01:39:58.740

Phil: And it's really sad, you know.

01:39:58.760 --> 01:40:07.720

Tom: It is, but it's well worth it for the ad that they made, which I think is called 1980 Fortnite.

01:40:08.340 --> 01:40:09.120

Phil: Oh, that's great.

01:40:09.220 --> 01:40:10.460

Phil: I didn't know that's what it was called.

01:40:10.480 --> 01:40:21.700

Tom: Which is good enough in and of itself, but it is a parody of one of the most iconic ads in history, the Apple 1984 ad.

01:40:21.720 --> 01:40:24.820

Tom: And it is just a brilliant take on it.

01:40:25.720 --> 01:40:32.820

Tom: And if you have not seen it already, I urge anyone to go and look up 1984 Fortnite.

01:40:33.360 --> 01:40:36.840

Tom: First, you must watch the original Apple ad if you haven't seen that as well.

01:40:36.880 --> 01:40:40.500

Phil: Yeah, and you've got to also go read the book 1984 to get that.

01:40:41.560 --> 01:40:42.180

Tom: No, you don't.

01:40:42.460 --> 01:40:43.820

Tom: Skip 1984.

01:40:43.920 --> 01:40:47.560

Phil: We're talking about an ad that's 36 years old.

01:40:48.300 --> 01:40:52.660

Phil: But of course, you know, everyone's pretty much familiar with it, I would imagine.

01:40:53.180 --> 01:40:56.100

Tom: So are we able to spoil it at this stage?

01:40:58.740 --> 01:41:01.660

Phil: Look, I think most people will have seen it by now.

01:41:01.680 --> 01:41:03.440

Phil: I think it's amazing.

01:41:03.660 --> 01:41:05.220

Phil: And my earlier commentary, of course, was...

01:41:05.240 --> 01:41:09.000

Tom: It's not quite as good as the Australian AIDS ad, but it is up there with it.

01:41:09.560 --> 01:41:11.060

Phil: Uh, is that the one with the Grim Reaper?

01:41:11.080 --> 01:41:11.460

Tom: Yes.

01:41:11.560 --> 01:41:12.240

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:41:12.620 --> 01:41:17.000

Phil: So, um, but I've got to say, my earlier commentary was, of course, tongue-in-cheek.

01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:19.480

Phil: I'm fully aware of the whole story.

01:41:20.160 --> 01:41:31.360

Phil: Um, but, um, in terms of what's going on with it, I really, in this particular case, I don't care, uh, who is disadvantaged, Epic or, uh, Apple.

01:41:32.080 --> 01:41:34.740

Phil: Epic is, of course, minority-owned by Tencent.

01:41:35.480 --> 01:41:40.060

Phil: Um, so we're really just talking about two massive corporations, um, having...

01:41:40.080 --> 01:41:43.840

Tom: Whining about a small percentage of their profit.

01:41:44.060 --> 01:41:48.120

Phil: Yeah, and each other's power, you know, and who's going to wield it?

01:41:48.140 --> 01:41:48.640

Phil: But I did...

01:41:48.880 --> 01:41:59.820

Phil: I think it is a rich irony that they're throwing Apple's ad back at Apple, and it's right, because when Apple did that ad, they were, uh, going up against IBM, and IBM was the man, you know?

01:42:00.520 --> 01:42:04.020

Phil: And Apple's been the man since 1998 now.

01:42:04.720 --> 01:42:07.000

Phil: Um, yeah, 1998's when...

01:42:07.180 --> 01:42:08.200

Phil: No, 2008.

01:42:08.260 --> 01:42:10.580

Phil: So it's been 12 years where Apple's been the man.

01:42:11.240 --> 01:42:17.120

Phil: And it's fun to, like, point out their foibles with their former propaganda.

01:42:17.640 --> 01:42:19.360

Phil: I thought it was particularly well done.

01:42:19.640 --> 01:42:20.060

Tom: It is.

01:42:20.080 --> 01:42:22.240

Tom: It is absolutely fantastic.

01:42:22.440 --> 01:42:24.820

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:42:24.840 --> 01:42:28.600

Phil: So, um, there's another ad that's going around as well.

01:42:29.240 --> 01:42:31.820

Phil: The Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War ad.

01:42:32.580 --> 01:42:34.200

Phil: Um, it has the, um...

01:42:35.160 --> 01:42:38.320

Phil: He was a Russian spy that defected to Canada, right?

01:42:39.020 --> 01:42:39.320

Tom: Yes.

01:42:39.540 --> 01:42:41.060

Tom: Was it to Canada or America?

01:42:41.280 --> 01:42:41.800

Phil: Canada.

01:42:44.140 --> 01:42:46.280

Phil: I haven't seen the ad, so you're going to have to describe it to me.

01:42:46.300 --> 01:42:53.480

Tom: Well, yeah, well, the ad is for the new, um, Call of Duty game, which is inspired by the Cold War, I assume.

01:42:53.980 --> 01:43:13.440

Tom: It's not going to be set during the Cold War, given that the content of the ad is very unsubtly building on the Russian content of the prior game and setting itself up as commentary on Russia's alleged interference in American elections.

01:43:14.700 --> 01:43:35.620

Tom: And it's got clips from one of Yuri Besmanov's famous lectures, which are all over YouTube, and YouTube is very interested in getting anyone who has ever watched anything tangentially related to anything political to watch, or at least they used to be.

01:43:35.660 --> 01:43:55.680

Tom: It's kind of disappeared from the algorithm recently until the Call of Duty ads, but it is another great example of advertising where it is essentially interspersing clips of Yuri Bezmanov's commentary on Russia's foreign policy campaigns.

01:43:55.700 --> 01:44:12.760

Tom: In this case, the Soviet Union's foreign policy campaigns attempting to affect other countries' politics in deleterious ways and interspersing that with footage of more recent events, if I remember correctly.

01:44:15.340 --> 01:44:19.340

Phil: Yeah, well, the CIA wasn't so subtle as to interfere with foreign elections.

01:44:19.360 --> 01:44:21.700

Phil: They just assassinated foreign leaders.

01:44:22.080 --> 01:44:24.060

Tom: They didn't just assassinate foreign leaders.

01:44:24.080 --> 01:44:29.120

Tom: I think they assassinated the average person on the streets as well.

01:44:29.160 --> 01:44:35.740

Tom: I think it was their general strategy, depending on where you were, which is incidentally significantly more effective.

01:44:37.280 --> 01:44:40.720

Phil: Yeah, and this is not conspiracy theory stuff.

01:44:40.740 --> 01:44:57.460

Phil: If you can go read a hacks like Bob Woodward's book, The Agency, where they disclose quite openly all of the involvement, not all of them, but quite a few of the CIA's involvements around the globe over the last 50 years, which is a good read.

01:44:57.660 --> 01:44:59.960

Phil: I think the CIA writes his books for him.

01:45:01.080 --> 01:45:13.820

Tom: I believe that a book recently was released on the Indonesia debacle in which some 500,000 to a million people killed, depending on estimates.

01:45:14.700 --> 01:45:17.140

Tom: So I would recommend that one.

01:45:17.660 --> 01:45:24.900

Tom: I don't know if the book is any good, but that is one of the most interesting and insane CIA exploits, I would say.

01:45:25.480 --> 01:45:26.560

Tom: Particularly given the...

01:45:26.680 --> 01:45:28.060

Phil: That sounds like a lot of people.

01:45:29.040 --> 01:45:30.040

Tom: It was a lot of people.

01:45:30.920 --> 01:45:33.960

Tom: But these are supposedly reasonable numbers.

01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:42.660

Tom: And I think there's a documentary by Werner Herzog on it as well, which may or may not be good as well that I haven't seen.

01:45:42.680 --> 01:46:00.360

Tom: But anyway, the interesting thing about that one is that that installed the government that led to the whole Indonesian affairs in East Timor, which is one of the most horrific things in the post-World War II world.

01:46:02.020 --> 01:46:11.900

Tom: And my point there is not to blame America for that part of it specifically, but merely that that's why it's interesting is it's connected to that.

01:46:12.120 --> 01:46:21.140

Tom: Which I should also add is relevant to Australia, given that Australia is deeply involved in Timorese and Indonesian politics.

01:46:21.960 --> 01:46:22.680

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

01:46:22.780 --> 01:46:23.060

Phil: Yeah.

01:46:23.160 --> 01:46:31.800

Phil: And again, I only bring it up because everyone's like, Oh, Russia interfering elections is, yeah, it's how could they do that to America of all places?

01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:34.720

Phil: The land of the free.

01:46:37.020 --> 01:46:51.100

Tom: While we're on the topic of Cold War propaganda, we will have to move on to something that is would have been Cold War propaganda if it was released in America, but it's actually sorry if it was made in America, but it's actually I think Japanese.

01:46:51.900 --> 01:47:02.600

Tom: And that is Metal Slug 2 or rather Metal Slug ACA Neo Geo Metal Slug X, which I think is a remake of Metal Slug 2.

01:47:04.320 --> 01:47:14.440

Phil: Yeah, Metal Slug of course was developed by SMK and originally released from the Neo Geo and Arcade platform, which is the same Neo Geo MVS platform.

01:47:16.020 --> 01:47:24.760

Phil: And it's known for its amazing, intricately colorful and artistic sprite work.

01:47:26.540 --> 01:47:34.880

Phil: Yeah, it's notoriously difficult, but that's because it was designed as an arcade game that wanted you to keep pumping, you know, cordless into the machine.

01:47:36.060 --> 01:47:39.700

Phil: But how are you playing it and why are you playing it now in 2020?

01:47:40.060 --> 01:47:47.800

Tom: Well, I played the ACA Neo Geo Metal Slug X version, which was on Xbox Games Pass.

01:47:47.820 --> 01:47:49.240

Tom: I believe it's no longer on there.

01:47:50.760 --> 01:47:53.360

Tom: So that is how and why I played it.

01:47:53.720 --> 01:48:01.400

Tom: But you will recall that I previously played, I think, the original Metal Slug and was somewhat disappointed in it.

01:48:01.400 --> 01:48:13.120

Tom: But I played that immediately after Gunstar Heroes, which is one of my favorite games of all time and as close to a flawless game as you can get.

01:48:13.120 --> 01:48:22.500

Tom: So I wanted to try another Metal Slug without having previously played the greatest ever sidescrolling shooter directly before it.

01:48:23.360 --> 01:48:30.940

Phil: And I think Treasure's Gunstar Heroes, though, I mean, the difference with that is your flow isn't interrupted because it wasn't an arcade game.

01:48:30.960 --> 01:48:32.660

Phil: It was designed for home play.

01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:44.320

Tom: It's also, while it lacks the quality of sprite work in terms of colour and effects, it is an amazing kaleidoscope compared to Metal Slug.

01:48:45.560 --> 01:48:46.980

Phil: Very impressive to this day.

01:48:47.000 --> 01:48:49.840

Phil: I was only playing it recently on the original hardware.

01:48:51.960 --> 01:48:54.720

Tom: So that was the other reason I wanted to return to it.

01:48:54.740 --> 01:49:01.300

Tom: And without having played a game like that directly before it, it was a much better experience.

01:49:01.320 --> 01:49:01.920

Tom: And it is...

01:49:03.160 --> 01:49:14.180

Tom: Everyone, I mean, the gameplay itself, when you are able to just spam in coins, is significantly more enjoyable than it would have been originally.

01:49:15.300 --> 01:49:22.960

Tom: So the flow is significantly less interrupted, or rather, it's no less interrupted because obviously you'll have to respawn.

01:49:23.260 --> 01:49:30.200

Tom: But it at least doesn't mean you have to spend several hundred dollars on completing the game.

01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:35.780

Tom: But the flow when you're playing it like that is really enjoyable.

01:49:36.580 --> 01:49:45.380

Tom: As you're going through the levels, the amount of enemies they throw at you keeps getting more and more and more until you get to the boss, more difficult enemies as well.

01:49:46.140 --> 01:49:52.860

Tom: The little details in the sound effects of the characters and the voice acting is great.

01:49:52.860 --> 01:50:08.860

Tom: And something that is, I think, highly underrated isn't just the sprite work, but the sense of humor with characters getting fatter the more you eat, which also makes them more powerful, if I remember correctly.

01:50:09.940 --> 01:50:16.780

Tom: The weird atmosphere of it with these homeless dudes that you're rescuing as you're going along.

01:50:17.980 --> 01:50:34.260

Tom: And as far as the sprite work is concerned, the gore is absolutely great with the character deaths and enemy deaths and the way they die depending on weapon you're using and the different stages of their destruction as you were killing them.

01:50:34.700 --> 01:50:45.440

Tom: The music is suitably bombastic and heavy, and there's some really fun MIDI synth work there as well.

01:50:46.640 --> 01:50:57.200

Tom: And the weapon variety seems to be a lot better than what I remember there being in the original Metal Slug, but it was a very long time ago.

01:50:57.760 --> 01:51:27.200

Tom: And it manages to be, in spite of the arcade design where you do have to respawn constantly, nevertheless really satisfying when you do actually complete each level, because even though you can just respawn whenever you die, even with that taken into account, it still requires a good amount of skill to actually get through the enemies and the bosses.

01:51:29.520 --> 01:51:31.400

Phil: You're absolutely right about the sound effects.

01:51:31.420 --> 01:51:33.740

Phil: The voice sampling in it is great.

01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:38.820

Phil: I think this is the game that when you pick up the rocket launcher, it says Rocket Lawn Chair.

01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:40.460

Tom: Yeah, Rocket Lawn Chair.

01:51:41.720 --> 01:51:43.280

Tom: It's a rocket lounge chair.

01:51:44.380 --> 01:51:47.840

Phil: I was thought Lawn Chair, like imagine Americans saying a lawn chair.

01:51:48.080 --> 01:51:49.160

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

01:51:49.160 --> 01:51:49.960

Phil: That's how I've got it.

01:51:49.980 --> 01:52:00.080

Phil: And I remember reading an interview with one of the artists on the games, and he said it was absolutely brutal doing the sprite work.

01:52:00.100 --> 01:52:09.160

Phil: They just worked endless hours and were constantly starving and constantly had sore hands from doing the sprite work in this.

01:52:10.060 --> 01:52:12.900

Phil: We'll have to find that interview online and share that.

01:52:12.920 --> 01:52:20.760

Phil: But I think it was, the guy's last name was Kujo, K-U-J-O, was one of the guys known for it.

01:52:21.560 --> 01:52:25.940

Phil: But he has a tremendous sense of humour, and I'd say it's an anti-war game.

01:52:25.960 --> 01:52:28.660

Phil: I mean, this is a pacifist message game.

01:52:28.880 --> 01:52:34.500

Tom: Well, it's Japanese, so as I said, if it was released in America at the time, I think they're originally from the 80s, right?

01:52:35.480 --> 01:52:37.420

Phil: 1996 was when the original launched.

01:52:37.440 --> 01:52:38.920

Tom: The original was released then, was it?

01:52:39.540 --> 01:52:40.260

Phil: Yes, yeah.

01:52:40.520 --> 01:52:41.940

Phil: It was much later than you thought.

01:52:41.960 --> 01:52:52.680

Tom: Okay, so if it was in America in the 90s, it would be anti-Arab propaganda, but if something is Japanese, then it's either going to be pacifist or nationalist propaganda, essentially.

01:52:53.560 --> 01:52:55.580

Tom: Or a combination of the two, interestingly.

01:52:56.020 --> 01:53:04.160

Phil: Yeah, but I mean, as the game progresses, I mean, the brutality of the war is here.

01:53:04.180 --> 01:53:06.780

Phil: This is jungle combat that you're running and gunning through.

01:53:06.800 --> 01:53:28.720

Tom: And on that point, the other interesting thing is, at the end, your former enemies that you were fighting against, which of course many of whom were Arabs because Japan always likes to include subtle commentary on American media or copy it, depending on the style of the intent of the creators.

01:53:30.020 --> 01:53:47.840

Tom: At the end of the game, you are attacked by aliens, and you and your former enemies unite to repel the aliens, which is another way that Japan likes to present its pacifist messages.

01:53:48.160 --> 01:53:54.460

Phil: Yeah, as we've talked about many times, you're even freeing prisoners of war with comic effect in this game.

01:53:55.080 --> 01:53:55.940

Phil: It is really worthwhile.

01:53:55.960 --> 01:53:57.220

Tom: Prisoners of war or hobos.

01:53:58.640 --> 01:54:00.140

Tom: Either could be a commentary on America.

01:54:01.640 --> 01:54:04.640

Phil: Well, they're kept in cages, so I'm sure Trump put them there.

01:54:05.880 --> 01:54:18.060

Phil: So it is accessible on almost every format, which is to its detriment often because of controllers and various patches and things like that.

01:54:18.820 --> 01:54:29.160

Phil: But if you just want to go online and find some video of the original arcade game or this incarnation as well, you'll get a sense of what we're talking about.

01:54:29.960 --> 01:54:33.100

Phil: It is truly a gem in one of my favorite games.

01:54:34.820 --> 01:54:35.780

Phil: I had the Wii.

01:54:36.720 --> 01:54:44.620

Phil: There was a collection on the Wii, I think, that had the first five Metal Slug games on it, which wasn't great.

01:54:46.220 --> 01:54:52.140

Phil: But on the original Neo Geo, it's certainly a great game to play.

01:54:53.240 --> 01:54:55.980

Tom: And this port, I think, works well.

01:54:56.080 --> 01:55:06.720

Tom: The one thing to remember is that it features in its emulation the problems of the original arcade version.

01:55:06.740 --> 01:55:17.920

Tom: So when a lot of stuff is happening on screen, it will slow down significantly to, at its worst, under 10 FPS.

01:55:18.080 --> 01:55:19.700

Tom: But that is just how it is.

01:55:19.720 --> 01:55:22.700

Tom: That is not related to your computer.

01:55:23.620 --> 01:55:25.980

Phil: No, but that is what we used to call chug.

01:55:27.180 --> 01:55:34.460

Phil: The chug in a shmup like this, in a shooter like this, is a part of it.

01:55:34.480 --> 01:55:36.660

Phil: And the developers account for it.

01:55:37.200 --> 01:55:39.420

Phil: And it is actually a part of the game.

01:55:39.440 --> 01:55:51.520

Phil: So if there is this massive enemy coming under the screen and all these explosions and everything going on, and you get that chug, the sense as a player back in the day was, oh man, the computer can't even keep up with the graphics.

01:55:51.620 --> 01:55:53.060

Phil: This is amazing, you know.

01:55:53.080 --> 01:56:00.680

Tom: And when you do suddenly get charged by a large number of enemies, it also gives you a chance to react as well.

01:56:01.740 --> 01:56:02.100

Phil: Yeah.

01:56:02.360 --> 01:56:03.780

Phil: Well, I'm glad you had a favor.

01:56:03.800 --> 01:56:07.720

Phil: I was disappointed the last time you talked about Metal Slug that you hadn't enjoyed it.

01:56:08.520 --> 01:56:12.060

Tom: This has well redeemed Metal Slug in my eyes.

01:56:13.080 --> 01:56:13.740

Phil: Well, that's great.

01:56:13.820 --> 01:56:18.900

Phil: And in fact, I think this episode of The Game Under Podcast has redeemed our podcast.

01:56:20.700 --> 01:56:23.420

Phil: Unless you've got something else you wish to say, we'll close it out.

01:56:24.180 --> 01:56:31.420

Tom: Well, we will end on an amusing note on Michael Book's eulogy follow up.

01:56:32.200 --> 01:56:41.080

Tom: Not that I've been watching the show, but YouTube has been recommending it to me and essentially his sister has replaced him.

01:56:42.480 --> 01:56:42.800

Phil: What?

01:56:43.420 --> 01:56:44.880

Tom: So the Michael Book show...

01:56:44.900 --> 01:56:47.240

Phil: Yeah, yeah, he was the guy that died.

01:56:47.320 --> 01:56:52.120

Tom: Yes, is now essentially co-hosted by Alicia Brooks, his sister.

01:56:53.060 --> 01:56:54.200

Phil: Well, you know, it's quite common...

01:56:54.220 --> 01:56:55.040

Phil: With the former co-hosts.

01:56:55.680 --> 01:56:58.940

Phil: It's quite common in politics for, like, long-running senators or whatever.

01:56:58.960 --> 01:57:01.380

Tom: Yeah, I believe nepotism is very popular in politics.

01:57:02.480 --> 01:57:05.760

Tom: But I didn't know it was popular in political commentary as well.

01:57:06.360 --> 01:57:10.400

Phil: Well, you got those subscribers, you gotta keep the money coming in, I guess.

01:57:12.780 --> 01:57:18.560

Tom: And she looks quite like him, so I'm almost disappointed that they did not announce he died.

01:57:18.580 --> 01:57:25.480

Tom: She got a haircut, put on his chains and added a suit, and they just pretended he wasn't dead.

01:57:26.180 --> 01:57:26.720

Phil: Well, if...

01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:28.420

Phil: That is correct.

01:57:28.840 --> 01:57:33.120

Phil: If I die, I can tell you right now, my sibling is not going to be doing this show.

01:57:34.640 --> 01:57:39.240

Phil: It would probably be more entertaining, but he wouldn't know what any of this means.

01:57:40.320 --> 01:57:42.220

Phil: So he'd be right there with our listeners, really.

01:57:44.180 --> 01:57:48.540

Phil: Do you have any last wishes for what we should do with this podcast?

01:57:48.560 --> 01:57:50.320

Phil: Should you meet an untimely demise?

01:57:51.480 --> 01:57:59.160

Tom: I think if I meet an untimely demise, I would like the show sent into space to communicate with aliens.

01:57:59.960 --> 01:58:00.620

Tom: With my corpse.

01:58:01.860 --> 01:58:02.300

Phil: All right.

01:58:02.320 --> 01:58:05.640

Phil: Well, I'm not sure how far we could get it on our budget.

01:58:07.960 --> 01:58:17.400

Phil: We might be able to get it, like, as far as 50 meters, as far as we can throw it off the end of a pier and hope that a whale, a space whale, a whale evolves into a space farm.

01:58:17.420 --> 01:58:22.040

Tom: There's a lot of alien life in the ocean that is yet to be discovered, I'm sure.

01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:23.360

Phil: Okay.

01:58:23.380 --> 01:58:23.800

Phil: Who are you?

01:58:23.820 --> 01:58:24.540

Phil: Jacques Cousteau?

01:58:25.280 --> 01:58:25.740

Phil: All right.

01:58:25.760 --> 01:58:33.360

Phil: So, as we said in our last episode, we're not discussing Jacques Cousteau anymore or his proclivities.

01:58:33.680 --> 01:58:34.480

Phil: Thank you for listening.

01:58:34.500 --> 01:58:35.700

Phil: Hey, go to gameunder.net.

01:58:35.720 --> 01:58:39.080

Phil: We haven't got much new content up there, but go back and look at our back catalog.

01:58:39.100 --> 01:58:42.640

Phil: Go listen to our earlier shows where we talked about the original Deadly Premonition.

01:58:44.880 --> 01:58:51.780

Phil: And also rate and review us on whatever podcast platform you get us on because it does help other listeners find us.

01:58:52.840 --> 01:58:56.080

Phil: With that, I'd like to thank you for joining us on episode 129.

01:58:57.080 --> 01:58:57.380

Phil: Mr.

01:58:57.400 --> 01:58:58.260

Phil: Tom Towers, thank you.

01:58:58.840 --> 01:58:59.340

Tom: Thank you.

01:58:59.480 --> 01:59:04.800

Tom: And while we're on the topic of French intellectuals, Jacques Cousteau was not an intellectual.

01:59:07.860 --> 01:59:10.700

Phil: He's just a guy that swims around looking at fish.

01:59:11.900 --> 01:59:14.140

Tom: That sounds like a pretty intellectual pursuit to me.

01:59:15.200 --> 01:59:19.120

Tom: I'm going to leave the listeners with this wonderful trivia.

01:59:20.320 --> 01:59:30.740

Tom: Anatole France apparently had a tiny brain, and I'm yet to see anyone use this titbit as a joke about intellectuals, sadly.

01:59:32.760 --> 01:59:34.740

Tom: I'm putting that out there for any comedians.

01:59:35.480 --> 01:59:38.280

Tom: It's low-hanging fruit that is just waiting.

01:59:39.000 --> 01:59:48.700

Tom: This is the hour of attacking French intellectuals, and I'm yet to see any Anatole France brain size jokes.

01:59:51.940 --> 01:59:53.260

Phil: Alright, you've outdone yourself.

01:59:53.460 --> 01:59:53.920

Phil: Goodbye.

Game Under Podcast 128

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Trademark Banter
0:00:36 Wiper Sniper and Wide Stances
0:04:16 Internet Archive
0:05:34 Blinx is to Knack as...
0:10:39 Panducto
0:11:42 Narnia
0:16:28 A Trip back to 2003
0:25:19 Bad Boys: Miami Takedown

First Impressions - Tom
0:29:38 Carrion from Devolver for Switch, XB, PC

Final Impressions - Tom
0:38:26 Minecraft Dungeons

Updated Final Impressions - Tom
0:41:50 Sky: Children of Light

Final Impressions - Tom
0:44:10 Beat Cop

First Impressions
0:46:52 Pathologic 2

Trademark Banter

0:52:26 Steamlink

Tom Towers Reacts... To The News

0:55:50 Gabe Newell & Kim Dotcom

1:04:10 Halo Infinite

Final Impressions - Tom

1:06:16 Metro Exodus

Transcript

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 128 of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm your co-host, Mr.Phil Fogg.

Phil: I'm joined as always by Mr.

Phil: Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, how are you doing?

Tom: Mr.

Tom: Tom Towers.

Phil: Mr.Tom Towers.

Tom: It is true that I do have multiple personalities, but only one on the show.

Phil: Yes, that's right.

Phil: And we should point out again for our listeners that your home state is going through a COVID revival.

Phil: So we are recording this from our home studios.

Phil: I'm not sure if you can hear anything that's going on outside.

Phil: I'm hearing something on your side though.

Phil: Is it?

Phil: What is that?

Tom: That is a whipper snipper.

Phil: A whipper snipper.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: Or snapper as it may also be known as.

Phil: Well, I don't think a whipper snapper.

Phil: Okay, so we've got to explain for our North American listeners that what Tom is referring to is a weed whacker.

Tom: Yes, I have heard that term as well.

Phil: Which I think is better, weed whacker.

Phil: I saw an ad at the mall when I was waiting near the men's restroom for no particular reason.

00:01:13.340 --> 00:01:16.280

Phil: That was for a local gardener that advertised his services.

00:01:16.340 --> 00:01:20.340

Phil: One of the services he provided was a whipper sniper.

00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:32.980

Phil: He was a landscape artist and one of the services, because he didn't know how to spell, it just said right there, mowing, tree trimming, whipper sniper.

00:01:34.320 --> 00:01:38.060

Tom: Did this result in him getting some interesting job requests?

00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:44.360

Phil: I just saw the little card, you know those little cards they put up at the grocery stores and such.

00:01:44.380 --> 00:01:51.860

Tom: While we're on the topic of you visiting, hanging around men's toilets, what color handkerchief did you have in your pocket?

00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.080

Phil: Well, I didn't have a wide stance.

00:01:56.080 --> 00:01:57.800

Phil: I don't know if you remember that controversy.

00:01:57.820 --> 00:02:15.040

Phil: Now there was a guy, I think he was a member of the House of Representatives or possibly even a senator in the US that was arrested for soliciting a prostitute at a airport.

00:02:15.420 --> 00:02:24.480

Phil: And apparently the thing was you'd go into the airport and you'd establish a wide stance when you sat on the portal, if that's what it's called.

00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:26.400

Phil: Is that what it's called?

00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:26.860

Phil: Portal?

00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:28.220

Phil: Toilet?

00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:30.940

Phil: Toilet, yes.

00:02:31.460 --> 00:02:33.380

Phil: The porcelain turtle.

00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.340

Phil: The porcelain throne.

00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:37.920

Phil: Yes, porcelain throne.

00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:50.440

Phil: And basically at that airport, apparently, and most airports, I don't know, apparently if you put your both legs out so your toes are in the other stall, that's an indicator that you're an interested party.

00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:54.780

Phil: And he got, yeah, he was like this conservative politician.

00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:57.600

Phil: He got busted for solicitation.

00:02:57.620 --> 00:03:01.480

Phil: I think that's how it works, maybe the other way around, but yeah.

00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:03.260

Phil: So what's this handkerchief thing?

00:03:03.740 --> 00:03:09.680

Tom: I believe that handkerchiefs are meant to signal similar information as well.

00:03:10.060 --> 00:03:10.480

Phil: Okay.

00:03:10.700 --> 00:03:11.180

Phil: All right.

00:03:11.200 --> 00:03:13.040

Phil: So I mean, remember George Michael?

00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:15.440

Phil: He long did a part of George Michael.

00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:18.080

Phil: He got busted for such a thing, didn't he?

00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:27.400

Tom: I have no idea, but not Prince, what the hell is the name of the government?

00:03:27.640 --> 00:03:28.440

Phil: Michael Jackson?

00:03:28.460 --> 00:03:29.360

Tom: Not Michael Jackson.

00:03:29.600 --> 00:03:30.460

Phil: Bono?

00:03:30.480 --> 00:03:35.020

Tom: Michael Jackson failed to get busted for related activities.

00:03:35.620 --> 00:03:36.940

Phil: Despite how hard he tried.

00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:37.260

Tom: Yes.

00:03:38.980 --> 00:03:42.920

Phil: And we should point out here that it's impossible to slander a dead person.

00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:49.540

Tom: We also have the world famous pedophile's precedent as well.

00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:54.280

Tom: So we can happily now accuse anyone we want of being a pedophile.

00:03:54.720 --> 00:03:55.540

Phil: He's not dead.

00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:00.740

Phil: And obviously you're not listening to the show because I edited it out the last time you said it.

00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:03.260

Phil: And I will edit it out again because I don't want to get sued.

00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:04.080

Phil: Because he's not dead.

00:04:04.660 --> 00:04:04.960

Phil: Yet.

00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:08.020

Tom: Well, it would be him that would have to sue us.

00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:14.980

Tom: And he has set as a court president that we can call him a pedophile without any issue.

00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:19.860

Phil: I've got to say, you sent me a link to something on the Internet Archive.

00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.100

Phil: I hadn't been on the Internet Archive for some years.

00:04:22.780 --> 00:04:25.300

Phil: And I'm blown away.

00:04:25.320 --> 00:04:26.240

Phil: It's like really good.

00:04:26.260 --> 00:04:30.040

Phil: Like the books, you know, they flip just like you said, the pages flip and stuff like that.

00:04:31.060 --> 00:04:36.940

Phil: And then I was like, oh, I should go to philfog.com because that used to be a website I had and see it.

00:04:36.960 --> 00:04:38.860

Phil: And you know, I was looking at, that's pretty cool.

00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:40.080

Phil: You know, they've got all that.

00:04:40.100 --> 00:04:40.980

Phil: I forgot doing that.

00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:41.520

Phil: That's cool.

00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:49.280

Phil: And then I went, oh, I wonder what gameunder.net is like, you know, so I put in gameunder.net and I went back to like 2013 or something like that.

00:04:49.940 --> 00:04:53.860

Phil: And which is the official podcast of The Game Under Podcast, gameunder.net.

00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:58.280

Phil: And I was clicking through, like looking at old posts that we'd put up.

00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:04.400

Phil: And I was like, after about because it's so slow to load, but after about five minutes, I was like, this is idiotic.

00:05:04.460 --> 00:05:06.540

Phil: Everything we've ever posted is still on our...

00:05:07.380 --> 00:05:12.360

Tom: The only difference would be, I believe the site has had one facelift over the years.

00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:14.880

Phil: One very minor facelift.

00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.180

Phil: Do you think it needs another facelift?

00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:18.540

Phil: Are you happy with how it is right now?

00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:27.560

Tom: Well, I mean, it could potentially improve visually, but the amount of effort required compared to the gains may be questionable.

00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:34.120

Phil: Yeah, particularly when we're podcasting at the rate we do, it's kind of hard to get in front of it.

00:05:34.140 --> 00:05:42.400

Phil: But I do want to offer a logic puzzle to you, so you're going to need to get a pencil out and write this down, because this occurred to me yesterday as I was driving around.

00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:46.100

Phil: A logic puzzle occurred to me and I can't figure out an answer to it.

00:05:46.760 --> 00:05:47.180

Phil: Okay.

00:05:47.580 --> 00:05:51.400

Phil: So you're familiar with Blinx, the time sweeper, the Xbox game.

00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:52.000

Tom: Yes, I am.

00:05:52.580 --> 00:05:54.340

Phil: And the sequel, Blinx 2.

00:05:56.020 --> 00:05:57.140

Phil: And you're familiar with NAC?

00:05:58.100 --> 00:05:59.420

Tom: Yes, I think so.

00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.480

Phil: Yeah, the Mark Cerny PlayStation 4 launch game.

00:06:02.500 --> 00:06:03.640

Tom: Did that actually come out?

00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:04.780

Phil: Oh, yeah.

00:06:05.900 --> 00:06:09.300

Phil: And I believe it was published by Sony Japan.

00:06:09.320 --> 00:06:22.920

Phil: So they're both Japanese games that were sold to promote the technology of the console, and both released early in the cycle, and both were not well received, either commercially or editorially, and both got a sequel.

00:06:23.140 --> 00:06:24.360

Phil: So here's the logic puzzle.

00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:30.160

Phil: You write it down because by, I'm not going to put you on the spot right now, but by the end of the show, you'll come up with an answer to it.

00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:36.360

Phil: Blinx is to knack as blank is to blank.

00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.440

Tom: I'm not, is that a logical puzzle?

00:06:39.700 --> 00:06:41.060

Tom: What is blank and blank?

00:06:41.080 --> 00:06:42.340

Phil: Okay, all right, all right.

00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.000

Tom: That sounds like you're censoring something.

00:06:44.520 --> 00:06:47.060

Phil: No, I don't know the answer.

00:06:47.080 --> 00:06:47.600

Phil: I'm not censoring.

00:06:47.840 --> 00:06:50.740

Phil: So, Blinx is to knack as Tekken is to.

00:06:53.120 --> 00:07:01.720

Tom: So, you want a comparison, an analogy of Blinx and knack, compared to something else.

00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:03.800

Phil: Yeah, and I think actually I just solved it.

00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.100

Phil: But, because I put myself on the spot.

00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:07.620

Phil: But you can come up with another one.

00:07:07.640 --> 00:07:12.660

Tom: So, what your logic puzzle really is actually, you're asking what are these two things similar to?

00:07:13.340 --> 00:07:14.480

Phil: Yeah, well, what is Blinx?

00:07:14.580 --> 00:07:16.020

Phil: So, Blinx came first.

00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:16.340

Phil: Yep.

00:07:16.640 --> 00:07:18.640

Phil: So, yeah, knack followed.

00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:21.240

Phil: So, then this other thing happened.

00:07:21.460 --> 00:07:23.380

Phil: I guess, I guess it'd be kind of, oh.

00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:24.940

Tom: Well, I've got an answer for you.

00:07:25.400 --> 00:07:26.840

Phil: Well, I've got an answer too.

00:07:26.900 --> 00:07:44.660

Tom: I'm not sure I can remember the names, but Proceeding the Matrix were two very similar films that actually had quite a lot of hype at the time, but have since been forgotten about and also were not very well received at the time.

00:07:44.820 --> 00:07:53.540

Tom: One was actually set in a video game world and unfortunately, I don't remember the names of either of the films, but-

00:07:53.820 --> 00:07:54.260

Phil: Tron?

00:07:54.440 --> 00:07:55.940

Tom: Not Tron, no, that was early.

00:07:55.960 --> 00:08:00.420

Tom: That was, these literally came out a year before The Matrix.

00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:03.220

Tom: So they were right at the same time.

00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:04.700

Phil: Wreck-It Ralph, Pixels?

00:08:04.700 --> 00:08:05.040

Tom: No.

00:08:06.220 --> 00:08:06.740

Phil: The Wizard?

00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:07.100

Tom: No.

00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.880

Tom: I think one of them was The 13th Floor, possibly.

00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:13.920

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:13.940 --> 00:08:13.940

Phil: Yeah.

00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:15.420

Tom: So there's my answer.

00:08:16.580 --> 00:08:22.920

Phil: So wait, Blinx is to NACC as The 13th Floor, I think is my answer is to The Matrix?

00:08:23.940 --> 00:08:24.380

Tom: No, no, no.

00:08:24.380 --> 00:08:28.920

Tom: The Matrix in this analogy would be something like Super Mario Galaxy.

00:08:33.520 --> 00:08:35.440

Phil: Maybe you don't understand.

00:08:35.920 --> 00:08:41.020

Phil: Blinx is to NACC as The Matrix is to Super Mario Galaxy.

00:08:41.040 --> 00:08:41.540

Tom: No, no, no.

00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:47.360

Tom: These two films, I can't remember the title of the other of these two films.

00:08:47.800 --> 00:08:55.120

Tom: So it's a 34 and another Matrix-like film from 1999 or 1998.

00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:21.120

Tom: Two somewhat hyped films that were encapsulating a certain cultural moment that were followed by The Matrix, which solidified this as worth remembering while those two were completely forgotten about, other than to bring up as failures preceding The Matrix.

00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:23.600

Tom: That's my analogy.

00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:30.820

Tom: So those two films are like Blinx and Nack preceding Super Mario Galaxy.

00:09:32.180 --> 00:09:33.000

Phil: That is very good.

00:09:33.020 --> 00:09:37.540

Phil: My solution that I just came up with, Blinx is to Nack as Tekken is to Dead or Alive.

00:09:38.980 --> 00:09:45.320

Phil: The theory being that Tekken was a ground breaking PlayStation launch game.

00:09:46.140 --> 00:09:52.380

Phil: And Dead or Alive was a very popular quote, ground breaking game for the Xbox when it came out.

00:09:52.520 --> 00:09:54.060

Phil: Or maybe the Xbox 360.

00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:55.680

Phil: Yeah, well one of those.

00:09:55.700 --> 00:10:00.940

Tom: The only problem with that would be that Tekken actually was ground breaking.

00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:09.380

Phil: Yeah, but the other one, you know, women, and Zack, Zack and his island.

00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:11.420

Tom: And Blinx has a cat.

00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.300

Phil: Speaking of movies on games, I was thinking about this the other day.

00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:20.060

Phil: Like, you know, you're always crying on about how movies are superior to video games.

00:10:21.900 --> 00:10:22.280

Tom: Am I?

00:10:22.300 --> 00:10:24.360

Phil: I was going to say, are you?

00:10:24.380 --> 00:10:29.080

Tom: And just before we move on from The Matrix and those films.

00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:29.780

Tom: Yeah, please.

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:33.880

Tom: Yes, long time listen of the shows.

00:10:33.900 --> 00:10:37.980

Tom: Who knows if this has ever actually come up, but the rapper LP.

00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:41.500

Tom: I am a big fan of.

00:10:42.020 --> 00:10:50.640

Tom: He, during the quarantine in New York, started with his Comedienne Wife, one of the worst podcasts ever made.

00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:57.640

Tom: Even by the standards of podcasts where people watch shows or films, it is awful.

00:10:57.880 --> 00:11:03.700

Tom: And I've never listened to such a podcast that has been in any way bearable.

00:11:04.420 --> 00:11:20.680

Tom: But one of the episodes was The Matrix, and I highly recommend the amazing stoner philosophy introduction about The Matrix and American society and propaganda.

00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:23.840

Tom: And then as soon as that's finished and they start watching the film, stop listening.

00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.280

Phil: So he's a longtime listener of this show?

00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:28.980

Tom: No, I'm a longtime listener of his music.

00:11:29.700 --> 00:11:30.440

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:11:30.460 --> 00:11:30.840

Phil: I'm sorry.

00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:32.800

Phil: I thought he was a longtime listener of our podcast.

00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:33.160

Phil: Okay.

00:11:33.180 --> 00:11:34.040

Phil: So what's it called?

00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:38.680

Tom: I think it's called the Panducto-Quarrin Cast.

00:11:39.760 --> 00:11:40.880

Phil: That's easy to find.

00:11:41.620 --> 00:11:42.440

Phil: Panducto.

00:11:42.520 --> 00:11:42.940

Phil: Okay.

00:11:44.300 --> 00:11:46.980

Phil: Speaking of podcasts, CS.

00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:47.360

Phil: Lewis.

00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:49.000

Phil: I don't know if you know what CS.

00:11:49.020 --> 00:11:50.840

Phil: Lewis is or whatever.

00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:52.780

Tom: Yes, I believe he is an author.

00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:53.700

Phil: Yep.

00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.820

Tom: A very obscure, unknown author.

00:11:56.300 --> 00:11:56.580

Phil: Yeah.

00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:58.360

Phil: Do you know what CS stands for?

00:11:58.380 --> 00:11:59.080

Phil: You probably don't.

00:11:59.540 --> 00:12:02.220

Tom: I do, but I cannot recall what it stands for now.

00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:04.580

Tom: Christian Sectarian.

00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:10.320

Phil: The funny thing, that's a good guess, but the funny thing is his father, I don't know if you know this was a Macc...

00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:13.920

Phil: That's a good one, but I don't think he was Catholic.

00:12:15.140 --> 00:12:16.800

Tom: Didn't he convert to Catholicism?

00:12:16.820 --> 00:12:17.640

Tom: I'm pretty sure he did.

00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.740

Phil: Well, we'll have to find out in one of the Chronicles of Narnia.

00:12:23.260 --> 00:12:43.580

Phil: Actually, his father was a mechanic, and they had already had a girl, they were expecting a girl, and they had a name set up for him, but they didn't actually have a name when he was born, so they actually called him Crankshaft Lewis, and that's what the CS stands for.

00:12:44.060 --> 00:12:52.820

Phil: I don't know that a lot of people know that, but yeah, Crankshaft is actually his name, because his dad was a mechanic, and that's all he could come up with.

00:12:53.900 --> 00:12:55.860

Tom: Either that or Clive Staples.

00:12:57.040 --> 00:12:58.600

Phil: Clive Staples, that's a good name.

00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:06.420

Phil: Anyway, I've been reading, and I know you're going to throw up all over me, just brawl with this please.

00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:14.220

Phil: I started reading The Chronicles of Narnia, starting with the prequel book and going through, so I'm reading them.

00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:19.760

Tom: I also actually reread The Chronicles of Narnia, I believe, this year.

00:13:20.680 --> 00:13:21.640

Phil: Did you write about it?

00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:22.680

Tom: No, I did not.

00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.120

Phil: Okay, then it didn't happen.

00:13:26.180 --> 00:13:27.600

Phil: Blog post or it didn't happen.

00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:41.920

Phil: So I'm reading through them, and I've thought, oh, I'll just see if there's any, you know, it was a long weekend in America, so there's no podcast to listen to, so I decided to see if there were any podcasts about Narnia.

00:13:42.620 --> 00:13:46.300

Phil: There are like four active Narnia podcasts right now.

00:13:46.640 --> 00:13:47.400

Tom: Only four.

00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:49.520

Phil: Yeah, I was amazed there were any.

00:13:49.540 --> 00:13:50.620

Phil: There's a bunch that are...

00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:55.340

Tom: There were recently big budget films based on Narnia.

00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.060

Phil: This is what I found out.

00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:00.340

Tom: I don't think Narnia's popularity has waned over the years.

00:14:01.280 --> 00:14:06.320

Phil: Yeah, well, anyway, these guys, so I go, okay, you know, let's listen to this guy's podcast, you know, whatever.

00:14:06.820 --> 00:14:11.020

Phil: It's called The Lamp Post Listener.

00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:15.680

Phil: And I selected it out of the four because it had the best graphic design.

00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.200

Phil: And I thought The Lamp Post Listener was a good name for it.

00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:19.980

Phil: So I download it.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:25.080

Phil: They've got great music, great audio production, and they're going through episode one...

00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:29.720

Phil: Each episode is half an hour or so, and it goes through one chapter at a time.

00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.960

Phil: So it's like professionally produced.

00:14:32.760 --> 00:14:38.580

Phil: One guy is an English teacher for primary school kids, and the other guy is an illustrator.

00:14:38.680 --> 00:14:43.200

Phil: And the illustrator is the guy that actually comes up with most of the best literary...

00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:47.680

Phil: literary observations.

00:14:47.780 --> 00:14:52.680

Phil: It's quite hilarious because the English teacher goes, I thought it was just a rabbit.

00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:57.100

Phil: And the guy's like, well, actually, if you look into it, the rabbit probably represents this, that, and the other thing.

00:14:57.800 --> 00:15:02.340

Phil: And then they go through these episodes like, oh, yeah, our theme was composed by...

00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:07.380

Phil: And I'm like, well, who the hell are these people who are just doing this 90-year podcast?

00:15:07.400 --> 00:15:12.900

Phil: They've got a professionally produced song at the start, like we do, albeit, but it's like right out of the gate.

00:15:12.920 --> 00:15:14.320

Phil: They're like total professionals.

00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:16.380

Phil: It's disgusting.

00:15:16.380 --> 00:15:18.460

Phil: And you know what?

00:15:19.060 --> 00:15:20.440

Phil: It is disgusting.

00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:24.560

Phil: I mean, it took us 100 episodes before we both got studio quality mics.

00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:44.520

Tom: But did they read, and this is the real question, it's not what they say about it that matters, but what they read because I think, though you may be lagging behind here, I also read this year his space trilogy and all of his major non-fiction work that I had not yet read.

00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.760

Tom: So we may be ahead of them in-

00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:49.140

Phil: Well, here's the thing.

00:15:49.160 --> 00:16:00.720

Phil: The big reveal comes in episode three or something, where they say, now all along, they've said we're not Narnia experts, we're just two people talking about this book and we're going to go through it chapter by chapter, which is a great concept.

00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:04.060

Phil: And then they reveal that they haven't even read all of them yet.

00:16:06.560 --> 00:16:08.880

Phil: Which to us, I mean, come on.

00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:14.200

Phil: At least if you're going to dedicate yourself to a podcast, I mean, we've played all the video games.

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.260

Tom: I think that could make it more interesting and entertaining if they're coming to it fresh.

00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.580

Phil: Yeah, yeah, it is.

00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.400

Tom: So it's actually another advantage they have over us.

00:16:25.180 --> 00:16:26.060

Phil: It is, it is.

00:16:27.140 --> 00:16:35.320

Phil: Speaking of playing all the games, I got a copy of Retro Gamer today in the mail, the last video game magazine.

00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:44.020

Phil: And the depressing thing that was in it was, they have a feature on these retro games.

00:16:44.020 --> 00:16:49.900

Phil: And one of them is for the original Monster Hunter, which came out in 2004.

00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:51.960

Phil: So that's like 16 years ago.

00:16:52.920 --> 00:16:58.900

Phil: And I still have a sealed copy of Monster Hunter that I bought when it came out.

00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:01.200

Phil: And I still have intention of actually playing it.

00:17:02.180 --> 00:17:06.840

Phil: And something about seeing it in a retro game magazine as a, like a featured game.

00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.980

Phil: It's, now there's plenty of games in this magazine that I've never read, never played.

00:17:14.040 --> 00:17:17.380

Phil: But like, seeing a game that I bought with intent to play.

00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:18.760

Tom: And never got around to playing.

00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.540

Phil: And never got around to playing, and still over there in the other room.

00:17:23.040 --> 00:17:28.060

Phil: But they have a thing, go, now, you're a lot younger than I am, but-

00:17:28.300 --> 00:17:31.880

Tom: One thing I, is that really retro, 15 years old?

00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:34.740

Phil: I think so, I think so.

00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:37.120

Tom: When did the PlayStation come out?

00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:38.640

Phil: 1995.

00:17:38.820 --> 00:17:40.600

Tom: When did the NES come out?

00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:43.140

Phil: 1983, or 81.

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.660

Tom: So about a decade earlier.

00:17:47.000 --> 00:18:07.740

Tom: Because to me, having begun with the SNES and PlayStation era, I would not consider something to be retro at that time, that was not made in the early 80s or 70s.

00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:15.420

Tom: Something very rudimentary and simple, like Pong or something of that effect.

00:18:16.020 --> 00:18:19.960

Phil: I think at this point, because they're covering games that came out on the Xbox.

00:18:20.060 --> 00:18:20.600

Phil: Yeah.

00:18:20.980 --> 00:18:26.240

Phil: I think if you're approaching that 20-year mark, it's basically a nostalgia thing.

00:18:26.260 --> 00:18:35.300

Phil: So for example, in each magazine, they give you the latest news from this month 17 years ago.

00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:43.420

Phil: So in August 2003, you would have been playing video games by a long shot.

00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.880

Phil: Would we have been on a website together by that time, 2003?

00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:48.480

Phil: No, that's 17 years ago.

00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:50.920

Tom: Probably not 2003.

00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:54.320

Tom: I think, but not many years after that.

00:18:54.980 --> 00:18:59.280

Tom: Probably the mid-2000s, I was on GameSpot, I think.

00:18:59.860 --> 00:19:00.660

Tom: Actually, probably not.

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:02.160

Phil: Here's one of the crazy things.

00:19:02.180 --> 00:19:03.020

Phil: They have the charts.

00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:09.280

Phil: I was probably on GameSpot a little bit after that or at that time, but a little bit after that.

00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.000

Phil: They have the charts from August 2003.

00:19:13.820 --> 00:19:20.940

Phil: I'm so out of touch with music that I haven't heard of any of the music that was top of the charts in August 2003.

00:19:22.100 --> 00:19:23.180

Phil: I'll give you a try.

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:24.040

Phil: We'll go through it real quick.

00:19:24.260 --> 00:19:28.860

Phil: A song called Breathe by Blue Cantrell featuring Sean Paul.

00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:30.620

Tom: I've heard of Sean Paul.

00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:31.700

Phil: Me too.

00:19:32.060 --> 00:19:32.860

Phil: He makes Jeans.

00:19:33.360 --> 00:19:35.100

Phil: We've gone over that in previous podcasts.

00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:38.440

Phil: Number two, Pretty Green Eyes by Ultra Beat.

00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:44.740

Tom: Pretty Green Eyes sounds familiar, but it's a very generic song title.

00:19:45.780 --> 00:19:48.440

Phil: Number three, Sleeping With The Light On by Busted.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.900

Tom: Again, the title sounds familiar, but it is a very generic title.

00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.800

Phil: Number four, there's only five, Complete by Jameson.

00:19:58.380 --> 00:19:59.240

Tom: I think I've heard of Jameson.

00:20:12.120 --> 00:20:17.600

Tom: Well, I hope I've heard that, because as generic as the title is, it's simultaneously amazing.

00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:18.960

Phil: Okay, good.

00:20:19.120 --> 00:20:23.220

Phil: And it's probably my rendition of it that really brought you back to 2003.

00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:24.560

Tom: It was probably better than the song.

00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:28.560

Phil: Top games of 2003 for the PlayStation was Itoy Play.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:29.780

Phil: Did you ever play that?

00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:30.420

Tom: Yes, I did.

00:20:31.020 --> 00:20:32.680

Tom: The Itoy was amazing.

00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:33.720

Phil: I loved it.

00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:34.480

Phil: It was great.

00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:36.140

Phil: The Window Washing one.

00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:37.140

Tom: Yeah, incredible.

00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:39.960

Phil: With that guy's song that we've got to look up.

00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:42.260

Phil: Tomb Raider, The Angel of Darkness.

00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:43.920

Phil: Yeah, I played that.

00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:44.620

Phil: That was all right.

00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:45.680

Tom: I certainly did not.

00:20:46.860 --> 00:20:48.400

Phil: Socom, US Navy Seals.

00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:55.980

Tom: I have not played that either, unfortunately, but it did have an amazing voice feature, supposedly.

00:20:57.060 --> 00:20:57.820

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

00:20:58.020 --> 00:20:58.380

Phil: It did.

00:20:58.560 --> 00:21:00.120

Phil: It did because what happened was...

00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:07.040

Tom: You could command your AI troops that were helping in your squad.

00:21:07.660 --> 00:21:10.260

Phil: And when your mate got shot, his mic got killed.

00:21:10.280 --> 00:21:10.700

Tom: Yep.

00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:11.900

Tom: Very sad.

00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.040

Phil: That's good.

00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.220

Phil: And speaking of your hip references, Enter The Matrix.

00:21:18.040 --> 00:21:26.300

Tom: Yes, I always wanted to play that and I have since played about five seconds of an emulated version of it, but no more than that.

00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:36.540

Phil: My friend bought it at the time because I was getting back into gaming through the Dreamcast, like Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur, that sort of thing.

00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:41.320

Phil: And my friend bought it and I was like, dude, you don't buy licensed games.

00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:46.500

Phil: And you know how you're always crying about how movies are superior to games.

00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:47.960

Phil: Am I?

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:51.200

Phil: Who won, man?

00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:55.860

Phil: Because they're no longer making games about movies, but now they're making movies about games.

00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:02.440

Tom: I think they still are making games about films, but the press decides to ignore that they exist.

00:22:03.520 --> 00:22:05.120

Phil: Yeah, but the tides have turned.

00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:09.380

Phil: They're making more movies about games than they are games about movies.

00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:09.880

Tom: Are they?

00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:18.460

Tom: I mean, that was a thing that was pretty common since the Tomb Raider film, which was a long time ago.

00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.480

Phil: All right, they did that movie Rampage.

00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:25.640

Phil: They did the movie Rampage about the arcade.

00:22:25.660 --> 00:22:29.000

Tom: Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Rampage.

00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.380

Phil: Rampage, asteroids.

00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:35.660

Phil: But what movies have been made about video games?

00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:38.720

Tom: Well, Tomb Raider is a film about games.

00:22:38.760 --> 00:22:41.400

Phil: But what I'm saying, what games have been made about movies lately?

00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:48.220

Phil: Like, they haven't done, you know, a movie about the latest Quentin Tarantino film, about Manson.

00:22:49.220 --> 00:22:53.180

Tom: That's just because Grand Theft Auto V is an endless game.

00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:54.360

Tom: Otherwise, they would have.

00:22:54.860 --> 00:22:57.480

Phil: GameCube, August 2003.

00:22:57.800 --> 00:22:59.760

Phil: Number one, FIFA 2003.

00:23:01.520 --> 00:23:03.040

Tom: That was the best game of that year?

00:23:03.820 --> 00:23:05.980

Phil: That was the leading chart in August.

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.480

Phil: Oh, best selling, yeah.

00:23:08.540 --> 00:23:10.360

Phil: Number two was Sonic Adventure DX.

00:23:10.700 --> 00:23:11.440

Phil: I bought that.

00:23:12.980 --> 00:23:15.100

Phil: Number three, The Legend of Zelda, The Wind Waker.

00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:17.840

Tom: The best Zelda game?

00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:20.020

Phil: I don't know if I agree with that.

00:23:22.860 --> 00:23:24.060

Phil: I almost agree with that.

00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:26.840

Phil: Medal of Honor, Frontline.

00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:28.080

Phil: I bought that game.

00:23:28.100 --> 00:23:29.240

Phil: It was very disappointing.

00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:30.040

Tom: Is that...

00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.760

Tom: Was that on GameCube?

00:23:32.300 --> 00:23:33.180

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:23:33.220 --> 00:23:34.120

Phil: I've got the GameCube.

00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:35.220

Tom: With the D-Day opening?

00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:39.280

Phil: Well, Frontline, I reckon it would be.

00:23:39.820 --> 00:23:40.960

Tom: That was a great opening.

00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:41.960

Tom: How was that disappointing?

00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.920

Phil: Well, at the time, because I was playing...

00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:46.760

Phil: You know, Call of Duty was also...

00:23:46.800 --> 00:23:50.920

Phil: Also came out on the PC at that time.

00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:56.820

Phil: And I thought, you know, me, I always, like, think that anything that happens after something else is a ripoff and just ignore it.

00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:01.620

Phil: So, like World War II, I mean, come on, you know.

00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:03.920

Phil: We've already done that.

00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:06.500

Phil: So, I just, you know, idiocy of the time.

00:24:06.560 --> 00:24:07.320

Phil: Idiocy of youth.

00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:14.920

Phil: And in Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers, yeah, was the other GameCube game.

00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:17.220

Tom: Another game based on a film.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.880

Phil: Yep.

00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:20.800

Phil: Back then, 17 years ago.

00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:27.320

Phil: And then on the Xbox, you got FIFA at the top, Brute Force, which is a horrible game.

00:24:27.340 --> 00:24:29.040

Phil: That was called The Halo Killer.

00:24:29.140 --> 00:24:32.260

Phil: It was going to come out and be bigger than Halo.

00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:34.700

Phil: It was produced by Microsoft.

00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:35.660

Phil: Are you familiar with that one?

00:24:35.780 --> 00:24:36.560

Tom: I don't think so.

00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:38.980

Phil: It was a Party of Four.

00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:48.240

Phil: It had a lizard man, a redhead, which, you know, with large breasts, and, you know, a brick and, you know, that sort of thing.

00:24:48.260 --> 00:24:50.200

Phil: It was not good, not a good game.

00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:51.940

Tom: They should have called it a Party of Four.

00:24:52.420 --> 00:24:53.680

Phil: Party of Four would have been better.

00:24:54.060 --> 00:24:56.720

Phil: They didn't have the TV charged for that time.

00:24:56.740 --> 00:24:58.120

Phil: And then Project Gotham Racing.

00:24:58.680 --> 00:24:59.340

Tom: Great game.

00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:01.560

Phil: Yeah, bought that, hardly played it.

00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:07.920

Phil: And James Bond 007 Nightfire, which I completely don't know about.

00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:12.220

Tom: That is something of a cult classic, almost.

00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:17.960

Tom: Another film-based game, but one that was actually very good.

00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:27.800

Phil: Speaking about film-based games that aren't actually very good, I've been playing Bad Boys Miami Takedown for the PlayStation 2.

00:25:29.320 --> 00:25:30.320

Tom: How can that not be good?

00:25:31.560 --> 00:25:33.400

Phil: It is really good.

00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:36.880

Phil: The only thing that's not good about it is the...

00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:42.060

Phil: They don't say Mike Lowry enough.

00:25:42.120 --> 00:25:46.060

Phil: The only thing that's not good about it is it's got that old-timey checkpoint thing.

00:25:46.600 --> 00:25:55.900

Phil: It's a very short game on a very little budget, and so if you get killed, you go all the way back to the start of the level.

00:25:58.100 --> 00:26:00.340

Phil: Which, when you've got limited gaming time, is a pain.

00:26:01.540 --> 00:26:03.680

Phil: But other than that, it's amazing.

00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:05.000

Phil: It's true to the movie.

00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:11.760

Phil: They've got simulated cutscenes in between each level.

00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.680

Tom: Is a simulated cutscene gameplay?

00:26:15.820 --> 00:26:17.580

Phil: No, they've got simulated cutscenes.

00:26:18.760 --> 00:26:20.620

Tom: What is a simulated cutscene?

00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:25.140

Phil: Well, to me, a cutscene is not an FMV cutscene.

00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:27.780

Phil: They're not actually inserting clips of the movie.

00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:31.340

Phil: They're simulating scenes from the movie directly into the game.

00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:34.200

Phil: There's no artistic license being taken at all.

00:26:34.220 --> 00:26:38.540

Tom: So there are cutscenes that consist of simulations of scenes in the films.

00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:41.100

Phil: That is correct, and they are amazing.

00:26:41.740 --> 00:26:43.200

Tom: They're probably better than the film.

00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:45.320

Phil: Yeah, you'd love this game.

00:26:45.320 --> 00:26:52.820

Tom: And despite about how much I go on about films being better than games, I have never seen Bad Boys.

00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:54.500

Tom: What?

00:26:55.300 --> 00:27:02.660

Phil: Bad Boys 2 is better, but you've got to really see Bad Boys before you see Bad Boys 2 to really get what's going on.

00:27:02.800 --> 00:27:07.240

Phil: So both are on Netflix or Amazon, I don't know.

00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:08.260

Phil: They're on something.

00:27:08.760 --> 00:27:09.580

Phil: You've got to watch it.

00:27:10.180 --> 00:27:22.580

Phil: The game, they appear to have voice likes or actual voice clips, but they're not really trying very hard to do likenesses of the actors.

00:27:24.620 --> 00:27:26.080

Phil: Will Smith and the other guy.

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.180

Tom: Martin Lawrence, is it?

00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:29.460

Phil: Martin Lawrence, yeah.

00:27:29.860 --> 00:27:33.220

Phil: Which is weird because they're using their likenesses on the front of the box.

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.360

Phil: It looks like the DVD.

00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:41.680

Phil: And they're using their voices, but the actual likenesses, I don't know if it's just the limitations of the PlayStation 2.

00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:48.740

Phil: Were there many PlayStation 2 games that had artistic, like realistic likenesses of famous people?

00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.080

Tom: Was Stranglehold a PS2 game?

00:27:53.800 --> 00:27:54.800

Tom: Or was that later?

00:27:54.820 --> 00:27:59.120

Phil: Stranglehold was a PlayStation 3 game that John Woo presents.

00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:02.440

Tom: Max Payne 2.

00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:04.580

Phil: Max Payne?

00:28:04.600 --> 00:28:05.780

Phil: Max Payne's not a real person.

00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:07.780

Tom: Max Payne 2 is a real person.

00:28:07.800 --> 00:28:10.600

Tom: The Sam Lake, whatever he's called.

00:28:10.860 --> 00:28:12.920

Phil: Max Payne 2 is a real person.

00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.240

Tom: He's based on Sam Lake or whatever the fuck he's called.

00:28:19.460 --> 00:28:22.080

Phil: That is right up there with Metroid is a lady?

00:28:22.100 --> 00:28:25.820

Phil: What did you say?

00:28:25.840 --> 00:28:26.940

Tom: Look up Sam Lake.

00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:30.020

Phil: I know the video game guy.

00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:30.980

Tom: You asked me.

00:28:31.820 --> 00:28:33.020

Phil: Masturbation face.

00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.400

Tom: Are there any PS2 games with realistic likenesses?

00:28:37.100 --> 00:28:41.440

Tom: Max Payne is a realistic likeness of Sam Lake.

00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:42.860

Phil: Of a celebrity.

00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:46.160

Phil: What exactly did you say?

00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:47.880

Phil: Max Payne 2 is a real person?

00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:50.860

Tom: I stand by that statement.

00:28:51.820 --> 00:28:53.960

Phil: Corporations are citizens too, my friend.

00:28:55.860 --> 00:28:57.560

Phil: Anyway, Retro Game Magazine.

00:28:57.580 --> 00:28:58.460

Phil: That's what I was reading.

00:29:01.060 --> 00:29:04.300

Phil: We covered off the CS Lewis thing.

00:29:04.320 --> 00:29:06.680

Phil: So you read through them recently, so you're not looking down on me?

00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.480

Tom: I recommend the Space Trilogy.

00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.860

Tom: They are absolutely bonkers.

00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:19.320

Tom: There is a lot of sexual tension in them.

00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:22.180

Phil: Was that his LSD stage?

00:29:23.380 --> 00:29:27.060

Tom: That was his science fiction theology stage.

00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:29.400

Phil: Science fiction?

00:29:31.040 --> 00:29:31.300

Phil: Really?

00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:35.100

Tom: It is called the Space Trilogy, so that might have been a clue.

00:29:35.740 --> 00:29:37.220

Phil: I thought you meant Christian scientists.

00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:37.720

Tom: No.

00:29:40.600 --> 00:29:42.620

Phil: Hey...

00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:47.660

Tom: Before we move on from the topic of retro games, we should bring up Carrion.

00:29:49.060 --> 00:29:49.300

Phil: Oh!

00:29:50.360 --> 00:30:00.300

Tom: Not as in Carrion, the classic British slapstick film series, but Carrion, slash softcore pornography, I should add, but Carrion...

00:30:01.760 --> 00:30:03.400

Phil: The decaying flesh of dead animals?

00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:05.180

Tom: Yes.

00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:10.280

Tom: Well, it contains the flesh of dead animals that is human beings, I believe.

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.380

Phil: So this is C-A-R-R-I-O-N.

00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:13.920

Tom: Correct.

00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:17.180

Phil: And it's on Switch, Xbox One, PC...

00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:19.940

Tom: Yep, and Xbox Games Pass, conveniently.

00:30:21.060 --> 00:30:35.240

Tom: And essentially, it is basically a alien-style horror game, except you are playing as the alien, rather than as the people being stalked by said alien.

00:30:35.780 --> 00:30:43.120

Tom: So it's a brilliant concept for a game, and it works incredibly well.

00:30:43.180 --> 00:31:08.280

Tom: It's 2D, and you basically control this massive blob of flesh with the left mouse button clicking and holding where you want to go, and your right mouse button controls your prehensile tentacles, which you can use to grab people and throw them around, or draw them towards you so you can eat them.

00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:14.560

Tom: You can use it to open doors and perform other various tasks that are required for Navigating.

00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:34.180

Tom: You can also use it to throw doors and other things at people, which is often very useful, particularly as you start coming up against enemies with shields and things like that, which require some strategy to fight against.

00:31:35.020 --> 00:31:50.840

Tom: As it goes along, it becomes partially a stealth game as well as an action game where you have to be able to get behind enemies that have shields which prevent you from attacking them directly and things like that.

00:31:50.860 --> 00:31:53.400

Tom: It's very simple, but it works quite well.

00:31:53.420 --> 00:32:06.140

Tom: The structure is basically a Metroidvania, so it doesn't need to be all that complex in its moment-to-moment gameplay as the exploration is a major part of it.

00:32:06.580 --> 00:32:13.460

Tom: But the exploration is also a big issue because there is no map whatsoever.

00:32:13.560 --> 00:32:21.500

Tom: If you want a map, you have to go and look up maps that people have made based on screenshots and other various tools.

00:32:22.220 --> 00:32:27.080

Tom: And the construction of the world is extremely convoluted.

00:32:27.100 --> 00:32:37.920

Tom: There's a basic sort of hub world with doors leading to different areas, but it's not that simple to navigate as you're going along.

00:32:38.120 --> 00:32:43.500

Tom: You can't necessarily easily go from door to door in the hub world.

00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:48.040

Tom: You have to sometimes backtrack through previous areas to get to different doors.

00:32:49.760 --> 00:33:02.340

Tom: And once you leave some of the levels, you can actually end up going back to the hub world rather than moving to the next area, which is very awkward.

00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:06.600

Phil: I've got to say, I'm looking at the gameplay video that's on Devolver's site.

00:33:06.620 --> 00:33:11.300

Phil: Devolver published it and Phobia Studios or Phobia Games developed it.

00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:16.020

Phil: It's on Game Over, GOG, Good Old Games as well as Steam.

00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:26.140

Phil: I've got to say the motion of the alien is very fluid and much like the end of...

00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:30.260

Phil: Was it Limbo or the sequel to Limbo?

00:33:30.560 --> 00:33:31.160

Tom: Inside.

00:33:31.180 --> 00:33:32.060

Phil: Inside, yes.

00:33:35.020 --> 00:33:38.740

Phil: Also the animation, it's a very retro type presentation.

00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:40.460

Phil: It's very clearly a Metroidvania.

00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:44.480

Phil: But the way that the characters move and run are much like...

00:33:45.020 --> 00:33:47.580

Phil: I don't know if you're familiar with the game called Impossible Mission.

00:33:47.600 --> 00:33:48.580

Phil: I am.

00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:59.380

Phil: Yeah, which is like that elevator type game where they use sort of roto scope type graphics to simulate effective running.

00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:01.500

Phil: I'm amazed that you're familiar with Impossible Mission.

00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.260

Tom: That's a pretty classic game, isn't it?

00:34:05.860 --> 00:34:07.540

Phil: Yeah, I just didn't know most...

00:34:07.560 --> 00:34:15.720

Phil: Because it came out for the Commodore 64 and was sort of an Anglo-centric type game, I didn't know that you'd be aware of it.

00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:21.960

Phil: But certainly the movement of the characters and the presentation of the levels reminds me of that.

00:34:22.340 --> 00:34:33.380

Phil: And then also it brings into mind for our North American viewers the original Prince of Persia, if you can all remember that silky animation of the guy running.

00:34:33.580 --> 00:34:39.020

Tom: And Another World and Heart of Darkness, also by the same person.

00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:42.180

Phil: And Beat Cop, you know, the other classics.

00:34:42.200 --> 00:34:47.820

Tom: But not as good as Eric Chahey's rotoscoping, I would say.

00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:50.020

Phil: Now, what's Eric Chahey's?

00:34:50.300 --> 00:34:51.760

Tom: He's the Prince of Persia.

00:34:53.220 --> 00:34:56.520

Tom: Sorry, not Prince of Persia, he's the Another World, Heart of Darkness guy.

00:34:57.080 --> 00:34:58.400

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:34:58.420 --> 00:35:01.500

Tom: He is on another level to Prince of Persia.

00:35:02.740 --> 00:35:04.860

Phil: Yeah, and that's a good read, by the way.

00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:13.240

Phil: The creator of Prince of Persia, he has a diary that he wrote, or a book that he wrote about the making of the Prince of Persia, which is quite good.

00:35:15.040 --> 00:35:18.620

Phil: It's really honest, and a lot of it's quite embarrassing.

00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:23.860

Phil: I would have thrown away, and I have thrown away, similar journals from when I was at that stage of my life.

00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.620

Phil: It's a very interesting reading, not only from a video game perspective.

00:35:28.940 --> 00:35:32.280

Phil: That's the maker of Prince of Persia.

00:35:32.300 --> 00:35:33.900

Phil: You'd be able to find it on Kindle.

00:35:35.120 --> 00:35:40.260

Phil: But yeah, the movement of the alien in this game looks really great.

00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:41.480

Phil: It looks like it's a lot of fun.

00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.920

Phil: How does it actually handle?

00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:45.000

Phil: Is it like a dual stick type thing?

00:35:45.060 --> 00:35:52.860

Tom: Well, I'm not sure how it works on a controller, but with the mouse and keyboard controls, it's very simple.

00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.700

Tom: You just click where you want it to move, or if you want to keep moving, then you click and hold.

00:35:58.300 --> 00:36:34.920

Tom: And it works as fluidly in your control as the animation where it looks like it's rolling around as a mass of flesh, because in certain areas, other than in combat, which does actually end up requiring some degree of finesse and skill, there are also sections with lasers that you have to move stealthily through using a skill that makes you invisible, and they can also require some reasonable level of locomotion.

00:36:34.940 --> 00:36:41.120

Tom: So it controls as fluidly and accurately as it animates.

00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:43.280

Phil: It looks brilliant.

00:36:43.300 --> 00:36:55.120

Phil: And now that I'm looking at some more gameplay, they've got obvious nods to Impossible Mission with a blue computer screen at a desk and some of the other elements of it.

00:36:55.140 --> 00:36:57.300

Phil: So yeah, this looks like a lovingly...

00:36:57.860 --> 00:36:59.500

Phil: it looks like a really well-made game.

00:36:59.780 --> 00:37:01.080

Phil: How far into it are you?

00:37:01.340 --> 00:37:03.680

Tom: I'm probably about a third of the way into it.

00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:22.340

Tom: And the other thing I appreciate about it as well, aesthetically, is though you were playing as the monster, it does not attempt to present anything differently to how it would be presented if the roles were reversed.

00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:27.400

Tom: So there is a very dark atmosphere to it.

00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:38.040

Tom: And when the human beings see you, they run around screaming and all that sort of thing, which just adds to the appeal.

00:37:39.340 --> 00:37:41.460

Phil: It's called Carrion, by the way.

00:37:41.720 --> 00:37:45.380

Phil: It's available on PC, Steam, GOG, Xbox One.

00:37:46.620 --> 00:37:47.520

Phil: What were you playing it on?

00:37:47.540 --> 00:37:48.220

Phil: PC, obviously.

00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:51.000

Phil: You were doing keyboard and you said it was part of Game Pass.

00:37:51.020 --> 00:37:51.460

Tom: Correct.

00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:52.900

Phil: Yep, yep.

00:37:53.020 --> 00:37:55.500

Phil: So, okay, it looks really good.

00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:58.000

Phil: I mean, how long is it, do you think?

00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:04.240

Phil: Because honestly, the presentation of it looks like it would get old after about four or five hours.

00:38:04.620 --> 00:38:09.060

Tom: I think it is only about three to four or five hours, so...

00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:11.840

Tom: What you were hoping for.

00:38:12.740 --> 00:38:14.300

Phil: Yeah, definitely, definitely.

00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:15.240

Phil: Anything else on that?

00:38:16.020 --> 00:38:16.880

Tom: Not so far.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:21.740

Tom: Just, again, the overworld is atrocious, unfortunately.

00:38:23.680 --> 00:38:25.940

Tom: But worth putting up for, I would say.

00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:34.860

Tom: And before we move on from Game Pass, I just recalled that I finished Minecraft Dungeons some time ago.

00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:36.660

Phil: You finished it?

00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:37.100

Tom: Yes.

00:38:37.120 --> 00:38:44.060

Phil: Okay, this was the top-down, isometric view, kind of real-time...

00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:46.200

Tom: Minecraft Diablo clone.

00:38:46.660 --> 00:38:47.720

Phil: Yeah, Diablo clone.

00:38:47.740 --> 00:38:49.020

Phil: So it's like a loot game.

00:38:50.480 --> 00:39:00.300

Tom: And regular listeners of the show would remember my complaints about exploration not really being rewarded in the levels.

00:39:00.460 --> 00:39:03.880

Tom: Once you get to the halfway mark, that changes completely.

00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:14.920

Tom: And the amount of loot you get when you are looking through the levels rather than just going from the beginning to the end is huge.

00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:19.180

Tom: So that is actually rewarded and makes exploration satisfying.

00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.320

Tom: And I also said that no one was playing it.

00:39:22.340 --> 00:39:28.560

Tom: In fact, the co-op, like in the main Minecraft game, is friend-only.

00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:36.060

Tom: So to play it online with someone, you have to have them on your Xbox friends list.

00:39:37.040 --> 00:39:40.280

Tom: So that was not a lack of players, but how the system worked.

00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.080

Phil: Well, that's fair of you to bring that back up.

00:39:43.220 --> 00:39:43.520

Tom: Yep.

00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:47.520

Phil: And that's a part of Game Pass.

00:39:49.620 --> 00:39:59.060

Phil: Microsoft announced this week, I think it was, or last week, that their streaming game service is actually going to be built into Game Pass now as well.

00:40:00.660 --> 00:40:01.580

Phil: So I don't know.

00:40:01.600 --> 00:40:03.020

Phil: Oh, we had no additional cost.

00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:07.140

Phil: So it's quite the value proposition.

00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:08.660

Tom: It already was.

00:40:09.080 --> 00:40:17.360

Tom: And the last thing I would add on Minecraft Dungeons is the last level is incredible.

00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:40.120

Tom: It is this extremely long multi-stage with some of the most interesting dungeon design aspects with jumping from sections of castle walls to sections of castle walls and things like that, with also some of the best combinations of enemies.

00:40:40.140 --> 00:40:47.520

Tom: It is procedurally generated, but obviously they have parameters for what sort of enemies you're going to be fighting against in certain areas.

00:40:48.020 --> 00:40:57.700

Tom: And the final boss battle also is an epic multi-stage affair that is on another level to the rest of the game.

00:40:57.700 --> 00:41:02.960

Tom: So it is worth playing for the last level, if anything else.

00:41:03.580 --> 00:41:09.760

Phil: Is it worth playing if you have to pay for it and you don't have much experience with Minecraft itself?

00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:15.520

Tom: Well, I think it would be more depending on your interest in playing Diablo clones.

00:41:16.020 --> 00:41:16.620

Phil: Yeah, righto.

00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:28.540

Tom: Because from the Diablo clones I've played, it seems to be doing something maybe a bit more casual than many of them, but certainly what it does do, it does very well indeed.

00:41:30.140 --> 00:41:32.620

Phil: I think that's the sort of thing that I'd want to play on the Switch.

00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:40.280

Phil: Something that I'd be using as a second screen type game, as something where I'd be dedicating myself to sit down at a computer to play.

00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:40.520

Tom: Yep.

00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:43.780

Phil: Or sit down at a console to play.

00:41:47.080 --> 00:41:55.160

Tom: And I will add one more correction, because my Sky season of Sanctuary, I think it was?

00:41:56.200 --> 00:41:56.720

Phil: So different game.

00:41:56.740 --> 00:41:57.540

Tom: Yeah, different game.

00:41:58.100 --> 00:42:02.020

Tom: The new season in Sky, I had impressions from the beta.

00:42:03.100 --> 00:42:07.420

Tom: Its implementation in the actual game is slightly different.

00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:18.520

Tom: Not to do anything they did differently, though they have unfortunately removed some stages of the quests that were in the beta for some reason, which is unknown.

00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:27.820

Tom: But the tropical island is a much more interesting area to explore aesthetically with more people.

00:42:28.060 --> 00:42:36.040

Tom: I said originally the aesthetic didn't really fit the tone of Sky, but with people in it, it makes a little bit more sense.

00:42:36.080 --> 00:42:39.500

Tom: And the same goes for the style of clothing.

00:42:39.520 --> 00:43:05.260

Tom: When you're able to combine them with a lot of the clothing items that are in the game from prior seasons and the original areas, they also transition into the game better than when you're playing in beta where most people don't have a lot of different clothing items and there usually were not many people in the new area.

00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.160

Phil: So I've got a question for you.

00:43:08.180 --> 00:43:14.520

Phil: We're talking about Sky, Children of Light, which is on iOS and Android, and soon to come to Switch, hopefully.

00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:36.180

Phil: When a user like me gets it on Switch and I'm going to be playing it the way I play Switch games, which is a second screen, a pleasant distraction, will a noob like me, because I'm not going to be playing it mostly to sort of interact with you, is that going to be completely boring for you?

00:43:36.260 --> 00:43:37.820

Phil: Or how is that going to work?

00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:47.420

Phil: Because you're like level 70 or whatever, and I'm going to come in, I'll be just like a guy with no clothes, no candles.

00:43:48.540 --> 00:43:49.340

Phil: How is that going to work?

00:43:50.080 --> 00:44:00.360

Tom: I don't think that's an issue because it is a MMO game, so the whole structure is based on repeatedly doing the same thing again and again and again.

00:44:02.420 --> 00:44:03.760

Phil: So it's like doing this podcast.

00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:04.420

Tom: Exactly.

00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.880

Phil: Okay, finally you put me at ease.

00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:19.580

Tom: And I may as well, while we're just doing short impressions, bring up that I finished Beat Cop, finally.

00:44:20.020 --> 00:44:20.640

Phil: Beat Cop.

00:44:20.660 --> 00:44:24.040

Tom: Yes, and I actually made it to the final day.

00:44:24.620 --> 00:44:38.780

Tom: But I unfortunately encountered two glitches, one of which resulted in me being unable to solve the case as to who stole the diamonds, or rather...

00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:40.040

Phil: You did?

00:44:40.420 --> 00:44:41.280

Tom: No, I could not.

00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:42.060

Phil: Oh.

00:44:42.080 --> 00:44:52.840

Tom: I could not solve the case due to a glitch, because on day 14 or 17, when you are meant to be finding...

00:44:52.860 --> 00:45:10.500

Tom: You're meant to be receiving a call from a certain person, I had a glitch where my character was unable to move, which is a glitch many people have encountered, and it has recurred for them, resulting in them being unable to finish the game and the day.

00:45:11.420 --> 00:45:21.160

Tom: I restarted the day when this glitch occurred, but encountered another glitch, which resulted in me never getting...

00:45:21.500 --> 00:45:27.000

Tom: Actually, I got the cue for the call, but when I went to use the phone, that did not work.

00:45:27.260 --> 00:45:43.920

Tom: And not only did that not work, it was a recurring glitch later on, but I don't think it interfered with any cues like that, where what happens is rather than you not moving, the entire street, the population stops moving, and that's it.

00:45:44.220 --> 00:45:46.820

Phil: Wait, do you think that might not be a feature?

00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:48.600

Tom: No, that is a glitch.

00:45:48.600 --> 00:45:49.940

Phil: It's some sort of thematic choice?

00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:51.480

Tom: I don't think it is a thematic choice.

00:45:51.500 --> 00:46:04.780

Tom: It actually looks very eerie and impressive, but I do believe it is a glitch, given that it results in you being unable to make phone calls and give out tickets.

00:46:05.660 --> 00:46:07.740

Phil: Sounds like a thematic choice that we would make.

00:46:09.240 --> 00:46:11.780

Tom: We would, but I don't think they did, unfortunately.

00:46:13.080 --> 00:46:18.700

Phil: They just play that song that came on at the end of...

00:46:23.200 --> 00:46:25.560

Tom: That wasn't you forgetting what you were going to talk about.

00:46:25.580 --> 00:46:26.800

Tom: That was a thematic choice.

00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:31.760

Phil: What was that HBO show about the Mafia?

00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:33.280

Tom: The Sopranos.

00:46:35.140 --> 00:46:36.200

Phil: The Sopranos.

00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:38.120

Tom: I believe it is.

00:46:38.580 --> 00:46:41.380

Phil: You don't think that that was their Sopranos ending?

00:46:41.560 --> 00:46:41.940

Tom: No.

00:46:43.580 --> 00:46:44.020

Phil: All right.

00:46:44.040 --> 00:46:45.200

Phil: You got any other quickies?

00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:47.020

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:46:47.540 --> 00:46:48.280

Phil: Well, wait, wait, wait.

00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.920

Phil: I've got important things to say about Crackdown 3.

00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:52.680

Phil: Perhaps the listeners want to hear that.

00:46:53.300 --> 00:46:57.640

Tom: They can wait, because I started Pathologic 2.

00:46:58.260 --> 00:46:59.100

Phil: Pathologic?

00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:00.180

Tom: Pathologic.

00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:01.700

Tom: I think it's just called Pathologic.

00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:03.080

Phil: So, it's not French?

00:47:03.220 --> 00:47:03.460

Tom: No.

00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:05.620

Tom: It's Russian, in fact.

00:47:05.640 --> 00:47:06.120

Phil: Russian?

00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:06.800

Tom: Yes.

00:47:07.200 --> 00:47:08.200

Phil: Pathologic.

00:47:08.300 --> 00:47:09.900

Tom: Yes, yes.

00:47:10.300 --> 00:47:10.940

Phil: Good game.

00:47:11.180 --> 00:47:11.940

Tom: Yes, yes.

00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:12.360

Phil: And...

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.720

Phil: Yes, yes.

00:47:15.980 --> 00:47:28.840

Tom: Rather than my impressions, I will give you my mother's commentary on the opening, because I will be returning to the game at some point to talk about it in more depth, but her commentary was...

00:47:29.560 --> 00:47:31.280

Phil: Before we get to the big thing...

00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:33.900

Phil: Pathologic is what sort of game...

00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:36.440

Phil: Because I don't know anything about it.

00:47:36.820 --> 00:47:37.400

Phil: I thought that...

00:47:37.780 --> 00:47:41.380

Tom: I believe it was described in one review as Skyrim Lite.

00:47:42.620 --> 00:47:43.720

Phil: Skyrim Lite?

00:47:44.680 --> 00:47:45.540

Phil: What the bloody hell?

00:47:45.560 --> 00:47:48.740

Phil: Skyrim is like Oblivion Lite, which is Morrowind Lite.

00:47:49.420 --> 00:47:50.720

Tom: This is the next stage.

00:47:50.740 --> 00:47:55.580

Tom: This is why we haven't seen another Elder Scrolls game, because this was the next Elder Scrolls.

00:47:56.220 --> 00:48:04.200

Phil: So, the guy who made it, he's like a hipster, like in terms of, you know, the gaming press all love the guy that made it, don't they?

00:48:05.120 --> 00:48:06.220

Tom: Is it a single guy?

00:48:06.240 --> 00:48:06.440

Tom: Isn't it?

00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:07.880

Tom: I don't think it's a guy.

00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:21.780

Tom: I think it's several people in Russia, but they are like the developers of Sunset and so forth, a primarily artistic endeavour.

00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:23.420

Phil: It's a Russian game.

00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.040

Tom: Yes.

00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:25.820

Phil: I might be thinking of someone else.

00:48:26.300 --> 00:48:30.380

Tom: The previous game that they made that got the most attention was The Void.

00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:33.900

Phil: Okay, well Pathologic came out in 2005.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:43.340

Tom: Yep, and this is called Pathologic 2, but it is in fact a remake of the original Pathologic, even though the original Pathologic also had a remaster.

00:48:44.040 --> 00:48:46.780

Tom: So this is the third version of the same game, essentially.

00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:50.680

Phil: So they're like the Metro guys, they just keep making the same game over and over again.

00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.420

Tom: Yes, but in this case, it's literally the same game.

00:48:54.180 --> 00:49:04.020

Tom: Though I do believe there are substantive differences between Pathologic and Pathologic Classic HD compared to Pathologic 2.

00:49:05.420 --> 00:49:07.820

Phil: So Pathologic 2, what did your mom say?

00:49:07.820 --> 00:49:20.600

Tom: Yeah, well, she watched some of the opening, me playing it, and her commentary was that it was as bad as watching a disturbing film and that she was going to have nightmares, at which point she then left.

00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:23.600

Phil: Okay, so mission accomplished.

00:49:23.620 --> 00:49:23.880

Tom: Yes.

00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:29.480

Phil: You just tape that and just, oh, what are you doing over there?

00:49:29.500 --> 00:49:30.100

Phil: What are you doing?

00:49:30.120 --> 00:49:31.660

Phil: I'm just going to play Pathologic 2.

00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:37.560

Phil: So is it any good?

00:49:38.540 --> 00:49:41.380

Tom: The opening is amazing, I would say.

00:49:41.580 --> 00:49:48.460

Tom: It's not merely very good, but one of the best openings in any game I have played.

00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:51.400

Phil: The best opening of any game you've ever played?

00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:52.940

Tom: One of the best openings.

00:49:55.080 --> 00:50:01.100

Tom: That is in terms of narrative, in terms of gameplay, there was not much going on.

00:50:02.100 --> 00:50:10.960

Tom: But I don't think it is, I think it is meant to actually have a fair bit of depth to its gameplay, but only once it actually begins.

00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:17.500

Tom: Essentially, the opening is basically a tutorial and introduction to the story.

00:50:18.180 --> 00:50:26.040

Phil: Well, I'm watching the opening now, and I'll be the judge of that, so you keep yammering on about whatever it is you're talking about.

00:50:26.060 --> 00:50:33.420

Phil: There's a grizzly bear, like a, like a, some sort of riding horse grizzly bear, a street lamp.

00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:35.580

Phil: It looks like you're photos from Melbourne, honestly.

00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:38.980

Phil: Particularly now there's some hopscotch.

00:50:39.560 --> 00:50:43.700

Phil: There's a redheaded girl, poorly animated, near a fire.

00:50:44.220 --> 00:50:45.260

Phil: There's three children.

00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:46.080

Phil: That's always good.

00:50:46.240 --> 00:50:48.140

Phil: What was that Rule of Rose game?

00:50:48.160 --> 00:50:49.200

Tom: Yes, Rule of Rose.

00:50:49.520 --> 00:50:50.700

Phil: The Bearing, the Teddy.

00:50:51.160 --> 00:50:52.600

Phil: Oh, that one looks not happy.

00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:55.420

Phil: It's all the closeups of faces.

00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:56.760

Phil: This doesn't look like the start of it.

00:50:56.780 --> 00:51:00.000

Phil: Looks a little more like a, like a trailer or a demo of it.

00:51:00.100 --> 00:51:01.160

Phil: That's probably what it is.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:03.360

Phil: So it's a creepy, creepy game.

00:51:03.520 --> 00:51:05.060

Tom: Yes, it could be the start of it.

00:51:05.060 --> 00:51:09.320

Tom: It begins with you in a dark area.

00:51:09.340 --> 00:51:13.300

Tom: You then go and talk to someone on a stage and it zooms in on their face.

00:51:13.640 --> 00:51:14.640

Phil: Changed, yep.

00:51:14.940 --> 00:51:19.820

Phil: Yeah, now I'm watching the proper 1440p and there's dead bodies and a stage.

00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:21.700

Phil: And yeah, it looks pretty creepy.

00:51:22.620 --> 00:51:32.120

Phil: And I think creepy stuff from cultures that aren't your own is usually creepier than if it were your own culture, you know, with this coming from, there's the Russians who make this, yeah?

00:51:32.140 --> 00:51:32.180

Phil: Yeah.

00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:33.040

Tom: Correct.

00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:34.240

Phil: Duh, yeah.

00:51:34.660 --> 00:51:41.500

Tom: What is most creepy though is the stuff from other cultures or your own that is creepy, that is not meant to be creepy.

00:51:42.500 --> 00:51:44.960

Phil: So what's with the zooming in on the faces?

00:51:44.980 --> 00:51:45.680

Phil: Does that work?

00:51:46.700 --> 00:52:01.300

Tom: It does, it absolutely does in the flow of the game because it, at least in the beginning, is constantly changing perspective and scene and it builds up a brilliant momentum as it goes along.

00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:07.480

Phil: It looks worthwhile, it does look like a Skyrim type game, but the setting is not that at all.

00:52:07.500 --> 00:52:13.840

Phil: It looks like more of a 1930s, possibly 1890s kind of era.

00:52:14.140 --> 00:52:18.440

Tom: It's also nothing like Skyrim other than the loot system.

00:52:19.380 --> 00:52:20.400

Phil: Yeah, okay.

00:52:20.420 --> 00:52:21.600

Tom: It's in first person.

00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:25.760

Phil: And it's a video game on a screen.

00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:29.480

Phil: And it probably also required use of a controller as well.

00:52:29.660 --> 00:52:35.760

Phil: Speaking of use of a controller, I don't know that, you know how I've wanted a Steam link for some time?

00:52:36.160 --> 00:52:37.480

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:52:37.520 --> 00:52:40.480

Phil: And they're unattainable at this point.

00:52:41.060 --> 00:52:41.700

Phil: I was on Steam.

00:52:41.720 --> 00:52:43.540

Tom: I have a Steam controller, unfortunately.

00:52:44.080 --> 00:52:46.880

Phil: Yeah, or fortunately, however you view it.

00:52:46.900 --> 00:52:48.660

Phil: But where do you want one?

00:52:48.780 --> 00:52:50.100

Phil: Why do you want a Steam controller?

00:52:50.420 --> 00:52:53.980

Tom: They look like an interesting control innovation to me.

00:52:55.240 --> 00:52:58.400

Phil: Yeah, I'd like to give one a try, at least.

00:52:59.700 --> 00:53:08.840

Tom: I believe they had a fire sale of the last stock of Steam controllers that were produced, but unfortunately, you cannot purchase them in Australia.

00:53:09.680 --> 00:53:11.580

Phil: No, and same for the Steam link as well.

00:53:11.600 --> 00:53:16.580

Phil: I'm just going to look on ebay.com.au to see.

00:53:17.600 --> 00:53:22.740

Phil: Steam links are going for 120 bucks, and I think they were selling for like five bucks in the States.

00:53:24.380 --> 00:53:28.620

Phil: Steam controller didn't even return a response.

00:53:30.700 --> 00:53:34.260

Phil: So maybe I put in Valve, Steam controller.

00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:36.700

Phil: Yeah, you don't even...

00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:41.000

Phil: Oh, here's one, 7432 from the United States.

00:53:41.100 --> 00:53:42.680

Phil: That guy is a thief.

00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:44.820

Phil: He is ripping us off.

00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:46.100

Phil: Holy cow.

00:53:47.260 --> 00:53:50.040

Phil: Yeah, it's interesting, but I'm not sure I'd really want one, honestly.

00:53:50.060 --> 00:53:52.100

Phil: Certainly not for that price.

00:53:52.580 --> 00:53:57.240

Phil: No, I find the Xbox controller to be just fine when I'm playing PC games.

00:53:59.100 --> 00:54:03.340

Phil: So anyway, on Steam, they still provide a Steam Link type solution.

00:54:03.400 --> 00:54:10.400

Phil: Basically you can download the Steam app, the Steam Link app for your Android phone.

00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:12.120

Phil: I don't know if it's available on iPhone.

00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:18.740

Phil: And then you can basically just stream from your PC to your smartphone.

00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:26.220

Tom: You should also be able to do that with any sort of tiny media PC as well.

00:54:26.680 --> 00:54:27.560

Phil: Exactly right.

00:54:27.560 --> 00:54:28.780

Phil: So if you had like a...

00:54:29.580 --> 00:54:47.420

Phil: And then if you had, say, let's just say you had like an Android tablet that you can pick up for 300 bucks or something like that, it would have HDMI out, optimally, which you could then plug into a TV and then using a Bluetooth controller, you could effectively have a Steam Link.

00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:57.520

Phil: So, yeah, so I played Death and Taxes with it, which is not a taxing game, so to speak, with touch controls, and it totally worked.

00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:05.680

Tom: It also isn't, in regards to the part, I don't remember taxes actually ever being a part of the game at all.

00:55:07.340 --> 00:55:09.500

Phil: Yeah, now you mention it, that's right.

00:55:10.640 --> 00:55:15.000

Tom: So one half of the title's theme, they just completely ignored.

00:55:15.560 --> 00:55:23.280

Phil: But you did get those coins, okay, and in the Bible, they say the wages of sin is death, which is a pretty good line.

00:55:23.660 --> 00:55:25.960

Tom: Yep, well, it is from the Bible.

00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:28.280

Phil: So the wages of sin are death.

00:55:28.300 --> 00:55:42.840

Phil: Now when we were killing all those people on Death and Taxes, you know, they gave us these coins, much like, you know, the coins that Judas had when he betrayed Jesus, and then, you know, threw away the coins because he was so ashamed.

00:55:43.080 --> 00:55:45.000

Phil: So, maybe there's something there.

00:55:45.020 --> 00:55:46.260

Phil: But back to the Steam link.

00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:50.660

Phil: This is Tom Towers' Reacts to the News section.

00:55:51.220 --> 00:55:52.380

Phil: I'm going to give you a headline.

00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.240

Phil: You're going to tell me what you think it means, okay?

00:55:56.240 --> 00:55:56.820

Phil: You ready for this?

00:55:56.900 --> 00:55:57.240

Tom: Yes.

00:55:58.520 --> 00:55:59.520

Phil: Headline number one.

00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:03.920

Phil: Gabe Newell has been in New Zealand for months.

00:56:05.080 --> 00:56:07.820

Tom: I think it means that Gabe Newell has been in New Zealand for months.

00:56:09.600 --> 00:56:11.400

Phil: Now, why do you think Gabe Newell...

00:56:13.180 --> 00:56:25.880

Tom: I think Gabe Newell, but he probably isn't, but I hope he is one of these billionaires building a climate change bunker in New Zealand.

00:56:27.380 --> 00:56:28.320

Phil: Like Kim Dotcom?

00:56:28.720 --> 00:56:29.060

Tom: Yes.

00:56:30.700 --> 00:56:32.620

Tom: Well, I think Kim Dotcom was already there.

00:56:32.640 --> 00:56:34.580

Phil: Yeah, he's a New Zealander.

00:56:34.600 --> 00:56:35.140

Phil: He's a Kiwi.

00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:38.480

Tom: Yeah, so he was already in the bunker.

00:56:39.520 --> 00:56:40.700

Phil: He's already in the bunker.

00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:42.080

Phil: Do you think that...

00:56:42.140 --> 00:56:43.540

Phil: I think that Kim Dotcom...

00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:47.420

Phil: If Gabe Newell and Kim Dotcom had a podcast, I'd at least give it a listen.

00:56:47.680 --> 00:56:50.660

Tom: That would be amazing.

00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:54.400

Phil: I would love to have Kim Dotcom on this podcast as a guest.

00:56:55.540 --> 00:56:57.120

Phil: I think that would baffle him.

00:56:57.220 --> 00:56:58.300

Phil: I think that would be great.

00:56:59.740 --> 00:57:05.260

Tom: I want a podcast of Kim Dotcom, Gabe Newell and Clive Palmer.

00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:09.240

Phil: Oh, good one, good one.

00:57:10.120 --> 00:57:16.100

Phil: I was laughing about Kim Dotcom the other day because I was thinking, you know what infuriates Jeff Gershman?

00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:21.420

Phil: That he didn't change his last name to Dotcom before Kim Dotcom did.

00:57:22.540 --> 00:57:26.180

Phil: If he was Jeff Dotcom, that is totally up his alley.

00:57:26.900 --> 00:57:30.580

Phil: You know, I was listening to his podcast the other day.

00:57:30.600 --> 00:57:36.620

Phil: The guy hates video games, you know, say what you will about us, but this guy hates video games, like very occasionally.

00:57:36.640 --> 00:57:39.940

Tom: He probably doesn't even like films compared to games.

00:57:39.960 --> 00:57:40.860

Tom: He just hates everything.

00:57:41.780 --> 00:57:42.540

Phil: Hates everything.

00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:49.800

Phil: He probably doesn't, wouldn't like Bad Boys, actually, he probably would like Bad Boys Miami Takedown, given his response to 50 Cent Blood in the Sand.

00:57:51.040 --> 00:57:54.500

Phil: I was actually thinking about replaying Warhammer 40,000 the other day.

00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:55.860

Tom: Space Marine.

00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:56.420

Phil: Space Marine.

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:57.300

Phil: Yeah.

00:57:57.460 --> 00:57:58.680

Phil: Yeah.

00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:01.000

Phil: So Gabe Newell has been in New Zealand for months.

00:58:01.420 --> 00:58:02.920

Phil: The actual story is COVID.

00:58:03.560 --> 00:58:04.540

Phil: He was down there.

00:58:04.560 --> 00:58:12.340

Phil: Now I imagine him going to New Zealand so he can take secret snapshots of where they found Lord of Rings.

00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.820

Tom: It's not just a climate change bunker, it's also a coronavirus bunker.

00:58:17.620 --> 00:58:19.900

Phil: Oh, I didn't even pick up that you said climate change.

00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:22.780

Phil: I just, COVID, climate change, all the same thing, you know.

00:58:23.560 --> 00:58:31.060

Tom: You're not familiar with this phenomenon of New Zealand being the escape route from climate change?

00:58:32.300 --> 00:58:34.980

Phil: Well, I've got a top secret thing to tell you.

00:58:35.940 --> 00:58:37.220

Phil: Just don't tell anyone else.

00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:46.100

Phil: But you all know I live on this large compound, this large acreage in a regional part of Australia.

00:58:47.700 --> 00:59:01.740

Phil: One of the owners and the namesake of the largest vitamin companies in Australia a few years ago built a compound on the hill opposite mine with a bunker.

00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:05.160

Phil: This is the top secret part because no one's supposed to know about the bunker.

00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:10.580

Phil: It's all wind power, like it's all, you know, independently powered, the whole thing.

00:59:11.240 --> 00:59:13.040

Phil: And he's never there.

00:59:13.620 --> 00:59:22.680

Phil: But it was basically built because he had bought into this end times thing where like, you know, the world is going to end on this date.

00:59:23.380 --> 00:59:29.960

Phil: And so he came out here and built this bunker with a farm so he'd have a self-sustaining, you know, situation.

00:59:30.740 --> 00:59:33.580

Phil: And obviously that never happened or hasn't happened yet.

00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:40.280

Tom: Why on earth would you choose rural Queensland for your doomsday bunker over New Zealand?

00:59:41.260 --> 00:59:45.980

Phil: Well, we're not saying that it's Queensland or not, it's just a remote regional location.

00:59:47.860 --> 00:59:48.720

Phil: But I think it's because...

00:59:48.740 --> 00:59:53.460

Tom: Well, he's in Australia, regardless, so it's a questionable decision.

00:59:54.380 --> 00:59:59.000

Phil: His primary business is in the same state, so he's probably just a proc...

00:59:59.020 --> 01:00:02.140

Tom: Or the more reason to escape the area.

01:00:03.180 --> 01:00:10.620

Phil: Yeah, it's a proximity thing because if you think about it, when whatever happens happens, he's not going to be able to get a plane to New Zealand, and he still wants to stay here.

01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:12.640

Phil: You know, it's got to be close.

01:00:12.660 --> 01:00:13.800

Tom: I think he's not put...

01:00:13.900 --> 01:00:15.600

Tom: I don't think he's really committed to this.

01:00:16.060 --> 01:00:21.760

Tom: He should be funneling wealth and resources to New Zealand at this stage.

01:00:21.780 --> 01:00:22.260

Phil: He probably has.

01:00:22.620 --> 01:00:26.260

Phil: Probably has, but how do you get to New Zealand when the zombie apocalypse hits?

01:00:26.980 --> 01:00:29.880

Tom: If you can afford a bunker, you can also afford a yacht.

01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:32.120

Phil: Ooh, a yacht.

01:00:32.140 --> 01:00:36.320

Phil: See, I was thinking Qantas 747 piloted by John Travolta.

01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.380

Phil: If I'm a crazy rich guy, I've got to get to New Zealand.

01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:49.540

Tom: And you then have the option of flying into a volcano as well, depending on how bad things have gotten.

01:00:50.340 --> 01:00:52.260

Phil: Well, see, now your whole thing's falling apart.

01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:56.900

Phil: You can't have a bunker in a land made of boiling mud and lava.

01:00:56.920 --> 01:01:08.420

Tom: No, you have the option of either flying to the bunker and trying to survive the apocalypse, or if things are really bad, giving up on the bunker and flying into a volcano.

01:01:10.040 --> 01:01:10.420

Phil: Wow.

01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:11.900

Phil: All right.

01:01:12.520 --> 01:01:13.500

Phil: That's a take.

01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:16.340

Phil: So anyway, Gabe Newell has been in New Zealand for months.

01:01:17.380 --> 01:01:18.980

Phil: He got stranded there because of COVID.

01:01:22.700 --> 01:01:23.620

Phil: He hasn't got COVID.

01:01:26.160 --> 01:01:29.620

Phil: But the thing is, remember when Windows 8 came?

01:01:29.620 --> 01:01:32.560

Phil: This is the hypocrisy and I hate to bash on Gabe Newell.

01:01:33.540 --> 01:01:34.980

Phil: He's a much bigger man than I.

01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:41.160

Phil: He used to work at Microsoft, then he went and started Steam or Valve rather.

01:01:41.380 --> 01:01:47.320

Phil: They made a couple of video games and then they started Steam, which is like this video game platform monopoly.

01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:55.620

Phil: Then when Windows 8 came out and Microsoft said, oh yeah, you get all of your apps through the Windows Store.

01:01:56.520 --> 01:02:03.120

Phil: Gabe said that it was a catastrophe and that he was going to, remember when they went all Linux over at Steam?

01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:03.680

Tom: Yeah.

01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:14.520

Phil: They were like, yeah, and Microsoft was evil because they were trying to create this one place where you had to go to get all your apps, and this was the death of computing.

01:02:16.540 --> 01:02:19.380

Phil: And he said, I'm backing Linux, man.

01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:26.300

Phil: And remember the Steam box was going to come out and beat the Xbox, and everything was going to be Linux, and it was going to be great.

01:02:27.160 --> 01:02:32.300

Phil: Well, in another headline, think what you, now I'm going to give you the headline.

01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:33.920

Phil: You tell me what you think it means, okay?

01:02:34.220 --> 01:02:41.240

Tom: Can I just add though, he is indeed correct that getting anything from the Windows Store is something of a disaster.

01:02:42.260 --> 01:02:43.980

Phil: Well, this is Windows Store's 10 now.

01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:44.560

Phil: I mean, this is...

01:02:44.640 --> 01:02:45.940

Tom: And it's still a disaster.

01:02:47.560 --> 01:02:56.680

Phil: He said it was a catastrophe, and that it was basically killing Windows, even though Apple had been doing this for decades and continues to do it.

01:02:58.420 --> 01:03:05.140

Tom: Apple, surprisingly and shockingly, is more functional than the Windows Store.

01:03:06.680 --> 01:03:07.660

Phil: Well, of course it is.

01:03:09.160 --> 01:03:10.460

Phil: It's Microsoft.

01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:18.640

Phil: Okay, Gabe Newell thinks Xbox Series X is better than PlayStation 5.

01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:29.860

Tom: So I understand the hypocrisy of Steam being the major platform, but is the hypocrisy here merely that he planned to beach the Xbox in the past?

01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:31.240

Phil: Yes.

01:03:32.540 --> 01:03:33.960

Phil: It's not really hypocrisy, is it?

01:03:34.820 --> 01:03:35.000

Tom: No.

01:03:35.020 --> 01:03:42.920

Tom: I think the Steam angle of the Steam hegemony would have been a more interesting take on that one.

01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:47.760

Phil: Well, it was an interesting take, and it's still a take, and I can edit all this out.

01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:51.000

Phil: But anyway, he's back in the Xbox.

01:03:51.020 --> 01:03:54.880

Tom: I'm going to give you one more chance to redeem yourself after that.

01:03:55.900 --> 01:03:59.680

Phil: Okay, of the two, I would definitely go with an Xbox, said Gabe Newell.

01:04:00.200 --> 01:04:03.480

Phil: I think, honestly, it just means that he's made peace with his past, really.

01:04:05.620 --> 01:04:07.760

Tom: No, I mean, give me another news story.

01:04:08.080 --> 01:04:09.900

Tom: You have to redeem yourself after that one.

01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:11.900

Phil: Well, there's no other news story.

01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:13.100

Phil: I mean, if you want...

01:04:13.120 --> 01:04:18.180

Phil: Okay, here, I want to know your reaction, not to the headline, but the actual news, because surely you would have heard of this already.

01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:21.900

Phil: You were a big Halo 2 fan.

01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:23.500

Tom: Yes, I was, indeed.

01:04:24.340 --> 01:04:29.300

Phil: Yeah, so have you seen anything about this Halo Infinite at the Xbox Games showcase?

01:04:29.900 --> 01:04:30.400

Tom: Yes.

01:04:30.600 --> 01:04:32.740

Tom: I believe everyone hates it.

01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:35.200

Phil: Everyone hates it.

01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:40.960

Phil: Everyone thinks it's crap, because it's coming out for Xbox One, PC and the new Xbox.

01:04:41.100 --> 01:04:49.680

Tom: Yep, and visually, it technically does look a bit behind the times, to say the least.

01:04:50.080 --> 01:04:56.660

Tom: But I actually thought there were, aesthetically, quite a few interesting things about how it looked.

01:04:56.680 --> 01:05:06.580

Tom: It's very cartoony and vibrant compared to what Halo has been over the years.

01:05:08.040 --> 01:05:16.920

Phil: Okay, so you're actually positive on it, because I'm not big on service games, so I wasn't really that interested in pursuing it.

01:05:18.340 --> 01:05:19.520

Phil: I did enjoy Halo.

01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:24.540

Phil: Halo 5 was a drag, but up to that point, I've really enjoyed Halo as a series.

01:05:24.700 --> 01:05:27.300

Phil: But you think it actually looks pretty good.

01:05:27.620 --> 01:05:28.440

Tom: I think it looked good.

01:05:29.880 --> 01:05:41.140

Tom: I do actually agree, though, that it would be improved with better lighting, and it's a surprise that it does not have any ray tracing in it.

01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:42.800

Phil: It is.

01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:45.600

Phil: But it is early days yet, and...

01:05:46.080 --> 01:05:49.960

Tom: I believe they've already announced that it will have a ray tracing patch at some point.

01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:50.700

Phil: Yeah.

01:05:51.020 --> 01:05:52.360

Phil: I mean, it's early days.

01:05:53.600 --> 01:05:57.080

Phil: I mean, even so, you think Microsoft would have put their best foot forward for...

01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.960

Phil: And maybe, you know, to their credit, they didn't do any ball shots, you know, with it.

01:06:01.300 --> 01:06:05.920

Phil: They're actually presenting the game as it is right now, so we'll give them credit for that.

01:06:06.020 --> 01:06:08.660

Phil: But thanks for playing Tom Towers Reacts to the News.

01:06:09.520 --> 01:06:12.300

Phil: I do have important things to say about Crackdown 3.

01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:15.680

Phil: Very important things to say about Crackdown 3.

01:06:15.700 --> 01:06:22.760

Phil: But I was more interested in your final impressions of Metro Exodus from 4A Games.

01:06:23.900 --> 01:06:25.360

Phil: This is Exodus.

01:06:25.420 --> 01:06:38.280

Phil: I mean, the naming of the game has several different meanings because A, you finally leave the subways and go out on the open road in this game, if the articles I've read about it are true.

01:06:38.300 --> 01:06:41.080

Tom: Well, the open tracks anyway.

01:06:42.100 --> 01:06:46.520

Phil: But is it also a departure in any other way?

01:06:46.740 --> 01:06:59.320

Tom: Well, yes, it is a semi-open world game, unlike the first two, which had a very linear structure.

01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:07.000

Tom: The levels obviously had a lot of freedom in how you could approach each area, but it was not a semi-open world structure.

01:07:07.020 --> 01:07:39.980

Tom: Here, in two out of the four main areas in the game, they are essentially small open world sections in the vein of something like Metal Gear Solid V, where you have certain areas that are related to the story that you can go to, as well as bandit bases and monster nests and areas where you might find upgrades and that sort of thing.

01:07:41.140 --> 01:08:10.320

Tom: So that's a big change to how the series worked previously, and even as far as the setting is concerned, because the setting of the Metro system of Moscow, that was a major part of the appeal of the previous two games, so even changing the setting to you going out of the Metro tunnels and into the world is a massive change.

01:08:10.340 --> 01:08:43.540

Tom: They do, of course, integrate a train into this, because you obviously leave the Metro tunnels via a steam engine called the Aurora, which may be a reference to an important Soviet ship, I think it was, I'm not sure, and that's obviously how you travel through the world, and essentially each section of the game that you go through is where the train has stopped due to some reason, that you have to solve before you're able to continue.

01:08:44.080 --> 01:09:00.580

Tom: And the basic theme of the story is, and this is really the only metaphysical element to it, disappointingly, Artyom has dreamt that the world is not dead and there are people on the surface.

01:09:01.140 --> 01:09:04.920

Phil: He's very ready, so Artyom is the lead protagonist, yeah?

01:09:05.340 --> 01:09:25.880

Phil: And so in the novel, which last episode I told you, yeah, yeah, I'm going to totally read that, and turns out that I read years ago before you, so Artyom, in his world, in the Metro world, basically everything on the outside of the world is dead, and that's why everyone's had to retreat into the subways.

01:09:25.900 --> 01:09:47.980

Tom: Yes, there was a nuclear holocaust and winter, and the only known surviving people in the world are those who escaped into the Moscow and Russian, I think it goes beyond Moscow, Metro train system, hence the title, Metro.

01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:49.720

Phil: I really enjoyed that book.

01:09:50.820 --> 01:09:51.440

Tom: It was great.

01:09:51.460 --> 01:09:55.840

Tom: I was genuinely surprised that it was actually good, legitimately good.

01:09:56.580 --> 01:09:57.920

Phil: So sorry to interrupt you there.

01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:01.820

Phil: So he's imagining that people are on the surface.

01:10:01.840 --> 01:10:03.440

Phil: How does that manifest itself in the game?

01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:05.060

Phil: I imagine you shoot them.

01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:06.400

Phil: In his dreams.

01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:10.300

Tom: You don't shoot them in his dreams either.

01:10:10.320 --> 01:10:14.640

Phil: Oh, it's like a video game, it's a shooter, so there's going to be people.

01:10:14.660 --> 01:10:17.540

Tom: Well, you do end up shooting a lot of them once you get to the surface.

01:10:18.040 --> 01:10:19.440

Phil: Okay, good, good, good.

01:10:20.060 --> 01:10:21.180

Tom: But not in his dreams.

01:10:21.540 --> 01:10:23.200

Phil: So there are people on the surface?

01:10:23.220 --> 01:10:23.520

Tom: Yes.

01:10:23.540 --> 01:10:48.780

Tom: It turns out that there are people on the surface and minus spoilers, the reason for this is that the radio signals that have been going around from people on the surface have been deliberately jammed by some of the people in the Metro for protection purposes, essentially.

01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:52.460

Tom: Which is all explained at the very beginning of the game.

01:10:52.460 --> 01:10:59.440

Tom: And so once you end up out of it for a variety of reasons, you can't return.

01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:11.080

Tom: And so you're then essentially travelling through Russia looking for a habitable place to settle down in, essentially.

01:11:12.360 --> 01:11:17.660

Tom: And the way it works structurally is quite interesting.

01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:37.040

Tom: The train, depending on which area you're in, is basically a place where you can go and sleep, and not necessarily sleep, actually, but you can craft items and alter your weapons at it, and the characters that are accompanying you on this journey are there.

01:11:37.220 --> 01:12:03.420

Tom: You can talk to them and accept side quests from them, and as you move from each area, there's an extended cinematic walking slash dialogue conversations between the characters as the train moves from area to area, so that's basically acting as an anchor in the story and also the gameplay.

01:12:04.660 --> 01:12:18.640

Tom: Once you are in the actual areas, and the first two areas, one is the Volga River, and the other is the Caspian Desert, and those are the two main open world sections.

01:12:18.740 --> 01:12:45.480

Tom: The latter levels, one of them appears to be an open area and you are outside, but it is in fact basically linear with the only non-linear aspect of it being how much of the linear area you explore, so to speak, and the final area is a very linear finale, but I'll get to that in a minute.

01:12:46.880 --> 01:13:02.720

Tom: So as I said, the more open areas, there are band bases and monster nests and upgrades that you look for, sort of like in a Metroidvania, except they don't affect how you can progress through an area.

01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:11.680

Tom: There are things like upgrades to your gas mask that affect how many filters it can use, different weapon parts and all that sort of thing.

01:13:13.420 --> 01:13:26.660

Tom: And this means that on the one hand, you don't get the extremely tightly designed levels that you get in Last Light and 2033.

01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:37.380

Tom: There are no sections that are as tightly designed and immediately enjoyable and complex as they are in either of those games.

01:13:37.920 --> 01:14:15.680

Tom: But like Metal Gear Solid, with the banded bases, while they aren't as architecturally interesting or as large as the levels in Last Light and 2033 were, the fact that they're out in the open and that there are things like mutants wandering around near them and that once you get inside, you might have a specific thing you're looking for does allow for quite a lot of creativity and freedom in how you approach getting to whatever you're looking for inside them.

01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:34.340

Tom: So you have to figure out how you want to actually approach getting inside, whether you want to stealthily kill people outside, lure mutants over as a distraction, and then once you're inside, your strategy will obviously change based on what you did outside as well.

01:14:34.760 --> 01:15:01.140

Tom: So, while it's not as complex in a pure stealth or shooting context as the more tightly designed air that main levels of the previous Metro games, it does nevertheless provide a lot of room for creative play like the original games did just in a very different manner.

01:15:01.740 --> 01:15:08.340

Phil: So, with those bandit bases, have you played any of the modern Far Cry games, like from Far Cry 3 on?

01:15:09.240 --> 01:15:09.960

Tom: No I have not.

01:15:10.260 --> 01:15:27.260

Phil: Okay, so like that's one of the tropes of Far Cry is basically you come across these bases and you can distract an animal or throw up an explosion or you can go in stealthfully or you can go in guns blazing to kind of take over the base.

01:15:27.280 --> 01:15:31.040

Phil: I mean, that's the whole purpose of the game basically.

01:15:31.060 --> 01:15:38.480

Phil: You find the towers to reveal the bases, you take over the bases and that advances you to the next level sort of thing.

01:15:38.620 --> 01:15:43.660

Phil: So you're not familiar with that trope?

01:15:44.140 --> 01:15:50.040

Tom: I am familiar with it, yes, but I have not specifically played any of the Far Crys in great detail.

01:15:50.060 --> 01:15:55.560

Tom: That's also similar to Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl and the other Stalker games as well.

01:15:56.860 --> 01:16:09.160

Phil: So, they may have stolen it from that, but just thinking about how this is Metro's first foray into the open world game genre, I just thought maybe that was something they picked up on.

01:16:09.180 --> 01:16:18.720

Phil: And this is topical because even AAA top tier games like Ghost of Tsushima that came out last week use this.

01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:21.640

Phil: It's just become a part of open world games.

01:16:22.140 --> 01:16:25.320

Phil: And I've got to say, I enjoyed it for one game.

01:16:26.120 --> 01:16:33.520

Phil: I enjoyed Far Cry 3 quite a bit, but not enough to actually carry me and my interest forward into Far Cry 4.

01:16:33.540 --> 01:16:36.740

Phil: And it's obviously also something that's done in Assassin's Creed as well.

01:16:37.660 --> 01:16:40.120

Phil: You talk about the different stages.

01:16:40.140 --> 01:16:43.120

Phil: How is it paced?

01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:45.080

Phil: Each level is like how long?

01:16:45.100 --> 01:16:46.880

Phil: Could you talk about that?

01:16:47.020 --> 01:16:48.580

Tom: Well, it depends on what area.

01:16:49.440 --> 01:16:54.340

Tom: The longest is probably the vulgar first area.

01:16:55.980 --> 01:17:00.860

Tom: And then the second longest is the second area, main area, the Caspian.

01:17:02.220 --> 01:17:08.960

Tom: And then the two later areas are probably about half the length of them.

01:17:08.980 --> 01:17:18.860

Tom: So probably if you actually do everything, the first two areas each are probably about four hours or a bit longer in length.

01:17:18.940 --> 01:17:25.400

Tom: And then the latter two main areas are about two hours or so each.

01:17:26.180 --> 01:17:31.280

Tom: And as far as the pacing is concerned, it depends on how you want to do it.

01:17:31.300 --> 01:17:48.120

Tom: So usually what will happen is when you first get into the area, you may need to do a small amount of main story stuff before you go around exploring in detail.

01:17:49.920 --> 01:18:07.060

Tom: But once you've done that, you can then either continue with the main story stuff, which does feature in and of itself more controlled and more standard pacing style gameplay, or you can go and do all the side stuff.

01:18:07.120 --> 01:18:22.420

Tom: And with the exception of the last area, I think the side exploration and band bass style stuff was a lot better than most of the main story gameplay.

01:18:22.640 --> 01:18:34.120

Tom: Just because with them splitting the two, none of the main story missions were as detailed as the best moments in previous Metro games.

01:18:35.120 --> 01:18:43.720

Phil: So Metro has always been an atmospheric game, and it's been like a...

01:18:44.100 --> 01:18:50.200

Phil: Plotting has such a negative connotation, but it's been a determined pace throughout the game.

01:18:50.740 --> 01:18:58.360

Phil: And I imagine that would be refreshing compared to like run and gun, you know, the usual things of a first person shooter.

01:18:59.460 --> 01:19:02.460

Phil: Does that carry over even though they've changed the setting?

01:19:03.160 --> 01:19:03.800

Tom: It does.

01:19:03.820 --> 01:19:08.460

Tom: The only thing that gets in the way of that is the crafting system.

01:19:08.460 --> 01:19:20.640

Tom: So unlike in previous games, now as far as I can remember anyway, now as you are going around exploring, you'll find random bits of crafting material.

01:19:20.740 --> 01:19:23.540

Tom: And there's two types of crafting material.

01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:27.160

Tom: One is chemical and one is metal.

01:19:27.980 --> 01:19:41.000

Tom: So as you're going along, you collect medicine and certain plants for chemical crafting and random bits of metallic detritus for metal based crafting.

01:19:41.020 --> 01:19:44.180

Tom: And certain items use both of those things.

01:19:45.540 --> 01:19:50.680

Tom: This allows you to craft bullets as well as gas mask filters.

01:19:51.160 --> 01:20:08.340

Tom: So essentially, unlike in previous games, you're never really in any danger of running out of either ammo or mask filters as soon as you're able to craft and explore more freely.

01:20:08.360 --> 01:20:19.740

Tom: So basically, once you get out for the first time using the gas mask and you can't craft things, that will never really be much of a pressure.

01:20:20.140 --> 01:20:31.160

Tom: But in terms of the actual gameplay, yes, you still have to absolutely plan how you're going to approach a certain fight and all that sort of thing.

01:20:31.220 --> 01:20:42.360

Tom: And the gunplay is, I would say, even more deliberate and heavier than it was by quite a margin than it was in previous Metro games.

01:20:42.700 --> 01:20:51.140

Tom: And on top of that, the crafting system allows you to customise weapons to completely ridiculous degrees.

01:20:51.460 --> 01:21:26.220

Tom: So you can take the handgun, for instance, and out of a handgun, you can essentially make a silent sniper rifle if you want, a light submachine gun, or a powerful magnum-style revolver, which also allows you, because the gunplay is so deliberate and heavy and so much planning needs to go into your combat, that allows for even more creativity and freedom in how you are playing.

01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:31.660

Phil: This sounds ridiculous, but if you don't like crafting, can you get by?

01:21:31.780 --> 01:21:37.900

Phil: Or, as with the original Metro, crafting is just a part of the game, you're just going to have to deal with it?

01:21:38.120 --> 01:21:43.180

Tom: Well, you can probably get by, because enemies, as long as you're looking for certain...

01:21:43.820 --> 01:21:49.540

Tom: you're looting properly, then enemies will have pretty good guns on and off on them.

01:21:49.540 --> 01:22:02.900

Tom: And indeed, often the best items are from you picking up a gun that is powerful, that you don't have, and then stripping it down once you're able to get to a crafting table.

01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:21.740

Phil: I have one more question before you go back to your oral review, and that is, like, the larger levels in the quote, open world aspect of it, you know, one of the key components of Metro has been this claustrophobic environment, really.

01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:35.360

Phil: I mean, you know, that is one of the hallmarks of the game, and one of the things that I think about the most when I think about the fiction and the game is this claustrophobia, because you're stuck in a tube inside of a train.

01:22:36.620 --> 01:22:52.780

Phil: Does that affect the game at all, or does it somehow, with all of the open world and everything else, does it manage to be consistent with the world that they created in their other games and fiction?

01:22:53.060 --> 01:22:57.600

Tom: I think it certainly manages to feel like it is still in the same world.

01:22:57.620 --> 01:23:21.840

Tom: It is, though you are on made it to the surface, and there are, in fact, other survivors out there, it is not really any less bleak than the Metro, the prior Metro games, so I think it manages to fit the general aesthetic and narrative of the prior games and the novels as well.

01:23:22.140 --> 01:23:36.280

Tom: Except that there is a really noticeable difference in the writing compared to previous games, and this is the first game in which Dmitry Glukhovsky was not involved in some way or other directly with the writing of it.

01:23:36.360 --> 01:23:37.280

Phil: Wow, really?

01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:38.200

Tom: Correct.

01:23:39.100 --> 01:23:40.540

Phil: I mean, well, who knows why?

01:23:40.620 --> 01:23:42.440

Phil: But I mean, like, why?

01:23:42.460 --> 01:23:46.220

Phil: Like, you know, like, obviously there had to have been some sort of...

01:23:46.480 --> 01:23:50.360

Phil: He just didn't want to do it, I guess, but...

01:23:50.380 --> 01:24:00.220

Tom: And I think he's moved on from the novel series as well, so probably he's more interested in dedicating his creativity to other works.

01:24:00.620 --> 01:24:01.680

Phil: Okay, well, good on him.

01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:02.720

Phil: I mean, that's fair.

01:24:03.140 --> 01:24:03.360

Tom: Yep.

01:24:05.340 --> 01:24:24.600

Tom: But in spite of that, one of the most surprising things about the effect that ray tracing had on the game is the difference it makes to the whole colour scheme and feeling of the levels.

01:24:25.400 --> 01:24:55.700

Tom: Because the global illumination of the sun allows for much softer and translucent shadows, it allows for a much more realistic gradiation between colours, which is a completely transformative effect, especially in areas like the Volga, the river area.

01:24:55.920 --> 01:25:19.880

Tom: When you're there, it's snowing and everything is covered in snow, and so there's this amazing contrast between the ice-covered areas of water, the open areas of water that have this really deep blue that if you turn off ray tracing, looks much brighter and more vibrant in a bad way.

01:25:20.380 --> 01:25:32.040

Tom: And it just allows for the colour palettes to come together and complement each other so much better than without ray tracing.

01:25:32.180 --> 01:25:50.540

Tom: And it really results in an amazing aesthetic in the Caspian, in other areas that are less subtle in the colour palettes, like the desert level, and there's also basically a Star Wars Endor level.

01:25:52.320 --> 01:26:00.340

Tom: It doesn't make as much of a difference because the colours are more vibrant to begin with and more contrasting.

01:26:00.360 --> 01:26:10.200

Tom: We've got the bright oranges and that sort of thing in the desert, and very rich greens in the Endor level.

01:26:10.340 --> 01:26:14.040

Tom: But in the Caspian, the effect is just absolutely incredible.

01:26:14.280 --> 01:26:23.080

Tom: And that's not to suggest that the colours in the later areas aren't good, but the Caspian is a huge highlight.

01:26:23.120 --> 01:26:28.480

Tom: And that is one advantage of them going out of the Metro.

01:26:29.040 --> 01:26:37.760

Tom: It does allow, obviously from the previous Metro games, they have an amazing art direction team at 4A Games.

01:26:38.200 --> 01:26:50.880

Tom: And so moving out of Metro allowed them to do some more interesting, or rather some different and creative things that they have not been able to do in previous Metro games.

01:26:51.400 --> 01:26:58.660

Phil: It makes me wonder if the thematic move away from the Metro was why Dimitri stopped contributing to the project.

01:26:58.900 --> 01:27:00.680

Phil: You know, that's all internet drama.

01:27:01.060 --> 01:27:03.480

Phil: You know, it's massive internet drama.

01:27:04.060 --> 01:27:09.360

Tom: Could be, but probably more so just him moving away from the series in general.

01:27:11.340 --> 01:27:13.640

Phil: Yep, so just a general question.

01:27:13.660 --> 01:27:15.540

Phil: I mean, like, you obviously...

01:27:16.160 --> 01:27:17.640

Phil: We love the world of Metro.

01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:25.240

Phil: I don't want to distract you further by bringing in Stalker and all the rest of it, but, like, we love the world of Metro.

01:27:25.380 --> 01:27:28.600

Phil: I mean, is this a Metro game despite the departures?

01:27:29.440 --> 01:27:30.040

Tom: I think so.

01:27:30.540 --> 01:27:35.000

Tom: As I said, it fits in that world perfectly fine.

01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:40.660

Tom: And the gameplay, well, the structure is different.

01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:58.180

Tom: And for the most part, the level design is obviously 50% different because the main story missions do follow somewhat the way that previous Metro games played out.

01:27:59.800 --> 01:28:06.540

Tom: I think it still is very much a Metro in terms of the way you have to approach combat.

01:28:06.900 --> 01:28:24.980

Tom: And though the crafting does let you to really get away with not having to worry about gas masks or ammo to the same degree you did in previous games, you still, to be in that position, have to be making sure you're scouring the area for loot.

01:28:25.520 --> 01:28:45.100

Tom: And things like the gunplay and the much more complex, from what I can recall, the previous Metro, sorry, crafting system, are actually improvements on the Metro style of gameplay.

01:28:45.340 --> 01:28:59.700

Tom: The gunplay in particular, the highlight of the previous Metros to me was always things like the gas guns and the weird sorts of weapons rather than more normal weapons.

01:28:59.780 --> 01:29:08.380

Tom: In Metro Exodus, this is a massive improvement for things like rifles and pistols and shotguns.

01:29:08.400 --> 01:29:13.960

Tom: The shotgun, from what I can remember of previous Metro games, always felt a bit weak and was disappointing.

01:29:14.360 --> 01:29:19.200

Tom: The shotgun in Exodus sounds amazing.

01:29:19.480 --> 01:29:30.540

Tom: The animation, particularly if you're using a double or upgraded to even more barrels version of the shotgun, is just so satisfying.

01:29:31.040 --> 01:29:33.780

Tom: The reloading just fits brilliantly.

01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:40.860

Tom: With it being so powerful, you have to reload it immediately.

01:29:40.900 --> 01:29:45.540

Tom: Also, it's a nice wrinkle into how you have to use it in combat as well.

01:29:46.840 --> 01:29:50.440

Tom: The improvement to the gunplay is really impressive.

01:29:50.480 --> 01:29:58.120

Tom: The weird sorts of weapons like the gas guns and all that sort of thing, they have not lost anything either.

01:29:58.500 --> 01:30:03.960

Tom: It's a significantly better roster of weapons than in previous metros.

01:30:04.020 --> 01:30:27.660

Tom: The basic, determined, slow planning required gameplay, whether you are being more aggressive in shooting or more stealthy, is still there in how you have to approach the open world bandit bases and that sort of thing as well as a lot of the main story missions.

01:30:28.220 --> 01:30:43.380

Tom: In a lot of the main story missions, which is also an interesting change compared to previous metro games, from what I can recall, some of them you need to be as stealthy as possible and not kill anyone or kill as few people as possible.

01:30:46.140 --> 01:30:48.540

Phil: So, I mean, it is still a metro game.

01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:51.740

Phil: A metro fan going into this game is not going to be disappointed.

01:30:52.080 --> 01:30:55.160

Tom: I don't think so, unless they were there purely for the setting.

01:30:57.020 --> 01:30:59.780

Phil: Yeah, but really, I mean, that's not what you're there for.

01:30:59.800 --> 01:31:04.640

Phil: It's more about the atmosphere, the crafting and the gameplay.

01:31:04.700 --> 01:31:06.080

Tom: Yep.

01:31:06.300 --> 01:31:11.220

Tom: The setting is of course a big part of it, but it does manage to be in the same world.

01:31:11.240 --> 01:31:25.060

Tom: Now, one area where there is a change that is very much a result, no doubt of Dmitry Glukhovsky's lack of involvement, is in the story and the theme.

01:31:25.160 --> 01:31:41.800

Tom: So one of the best things about the previous two Metro games was that they managed to include the thematic content of the novel, which was surprisingly a rich book thematically.

01:31:42.440 --> 01:32:11.280

Tom: And that was in the humorous depictions of and cynical depictions of various political ideologies and references to philosophy, as well as in the last slide in particular, making use of the metaphysical solutions to the problems that the political ideologies and philosophies that were referenced had failed to solve.

01:32:12.780 --> 01:32:19.640

Tom: Here, the metaphysics is limited, disappointingly solely basically to Artyom's dreams.

01:32:20.300 --> 01:32:43.900

Tom: And while the story being based around Artyom and Anna's relationship and the attempt essentially to create family in this world is related to themes in the novel, it's not done in a particularly interesting way.

01:32:43.960 --> 01:32:57.880

Tom: And I think one of the biggest issues with it is, which wasn't an issue in the previous two games, where it wasn't a personal story at all, is that Artyom does not speak.

01:32:57.920 --> 01:33:13.140

Tom: He is still a silent protagonist in this game, and that makes the relationship with Anna and the other crew members rather weird and awkward, to say the least.

01:33:13.160 --> 01:33:28.900

Tom: So you're sitting there, for instance, on the train, with your arm around Anna, smoking a cigarette with her, which incidentally is probably not a good idea, given that, as the game goes on, she develops a serious lung problem.

01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:31.220

Tom: But...

01:33:33.120 --> 01:33:40.000

Tom: and she's just talking to you, the player, about how much she loves you and other various things like that.

01:33:41.060 --> 01:33:42.600

Phil: And you're just not responding at all.

01:33:45.820 --> 01:33:57.020

Phil: Look, I'm sending an email to the 4A Games people right now, and it says, you know, hi, I'm the co-host of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest-running podcast.

01:33:57.940 --> 01:34:01.960

Phil: Longest-running gaming podcast, we should probably caveat.

01:34:01.980 --> 01:34:05.800

Phil: They were probably the longest-running podcast in Australia at this point.

01:34:08.140 --> 01:34:11.080

Phil: And it's funny, like, we really are at this point.

01:34:11.260 --> 01:34:15.540

Phil: The gaming podcast scene has dried up all over the place.

01:34:17.360 --> 01:34:23.660

Phil: It says, we've talked of your games on many shows favorably, of course, one of which we'll be publishing soon on the topic of Exodus.

01:34:24.140 --> 01:34:30.500

Phil: My co-host, Tom Towers, has a question for you that we'd like to include on the episode after that, which is...

01:34:32.200 --> 01:34:34.020

Tom: Why did Dmitry Glukhovsky...

01:34:35.740 --> 01:34:36.080

Tom: Not...

01:34:36.780 --> 01:34:40.960

Tom: Why did he choose not to be more involved in the writing of Metro Exodus?

01:34:44.160 --> 01:34:45.620

Phil: S-K-Y.

01:34:45.640 --> 01:34:47.060

Phil: And of course I'll answer this.

01:34:49.260 --> 01:34:56.000

Tom: Well, we are a massive outlet on the Australian gaming scene, so they will be wanting our press coverage undoubtedly.

01:34:56.740 --> 01:35:00.860

Phil: Well, it's not a matter of press coverage, it's a matter of, you know, professional courtesy.

01:35:03.120 --> 01:35:05.940

Phil: And on the next podcast, I'll give you the answer.

01:35:05.960 --> 01:35:06.160

Tom: Yes.

01:35:06.740 --> 01:35:18.800

Tom: And so, as I was saying, the story is more personal and really falls flat in that aspect due to the lack of Artyom existing as a character.

01:35:18.820 --> 01:35:39.880

Tom: Now, obviously, he has always provided commentary and spoken in the loading scenes, and that has actually worked somewhat well in commentary on the philosophical and metaphysical things, but in a relationship depiction, it doesn't work so well, because obviously you need the characters to be interacting.

01:35:40.800 --> 01:35:42.640

Tom: So the effect is just weird.

01:35:42.960 --> 01:35:52.400

Tom: And it's a strange decision, because the protagonists in the DLC do speak......bizarrely.

01:35:54.640 --> 01:35:57.580

Tom: So why they chose...

01:35:58.040 --> 01:35:59.420

Tom: That should actually be my question.

01:35:59.560 --> 01:36:05.660

Tom: Why the fuck did Artyom not speak, yet the protagonists in the DLC did?

01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:07.300

Tom: So change my question to that.

01:36:08.940 --> 01:36:10.560

Phil: Well, I'm not going to change that.

01:36:11.620 --> 01:36:14.760

Phil: When they respond, we'll say, OK, we've got a follow up.

01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:15.420

Tom: OK, then.

01:36:16.480 --> 01:36:18.240

Phil: So, all right, I've sent that.

01:36:18.360 --> 01:36:18.980

Phil: It's sent.

01:36:20.220 --> 01:36:25.400

Phil: And honestly, like, there are very few gaming podcasts around Tom.

01:36:26.100 --> 01:36:27.720

Phil: I don't know if you're aware of this.

01:36:29.240 --> 01:36:33.840

Phil: There are not that many gaming podcasts left, really, honestly.

01:36:34.720 --> 01:36:36.920

Phil: And that's probably for good reason.

01:36:38.180 --> 01:36:40.120

Tom: Why Giant Bombshell exists, I don't know.

01:36:41.120 --> 01:36:43.160

Phil: Well, it's a personality driven thing.

01:36:43.160 --> 01:36:45.440

Phil: And they actually have subscribers unlike us.

01:36:45.540 --> 01:36:53.980

Phil: And they also solicit their listeners' feedback and talk about it, which kind of, you know, for feeds the whole thing and keeps the subscription up.

01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:58.480

Tom: Speaking of, while they may have subscribers, we have massive influence.

01:36:59.200 --> 01:37:15.560

Tom: We mentioned Death and Taxes earlier, but not the fact that they had clearly been listening to the show and are adding my suggestion, which is the bar, is now going to become a part of the game that you can actually visit and serves a purpose.

01:37:16.460 --> 01:37:19.040

Phil: So this is not a trivial thing, listeners.

01:37:20.100 --> 01:37:21.920

Phil: This game is not in beta.

01:37:21.920 --> 01:37:22.760

Phil: It's not in alpha.

01:37:22.780 --> 01:37:28.580

Phil: The game has been released, and me and Tom talked about this feature of a game that should be included.

01:37:28.620 --> 01:37:34.840

Phil: I had contacted the developers of the game prior to the podcast and let them know that we'd be doing a show.

01:37:35.640 --> 01:37:44.520

Phil: They didn't send me a free code that I would have forwarded to you, unfortunately, but they were aware that we were going to be talking about the show.

01:37:44.540 --> 01:37:45.760

Phil: I sent them a link to the show.

01:37:46.240 --> 01:37:48.860

Phil: And then, you just want to say what you said again?

01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:50.560

Phil: Just want to elaborate on that?

01:37:50.580 --> 01:37:59.820

Tom: Well, I, in my impressions, commented on the fact that the bar was a floor which you could go past, yet not actually visit.

01:38:00.380 --> 01:38:10.240

Tom: And that was bizarre, and it should clearly have been a feature in the game to add a bit of narrative colour and also perhaps serve some sort of gameplay purpose.

01:38:11.120 --> 01:38:14.880

Phil: Right, and this week they announced that they're going to go back to this finished game.

01:38:15.900 --> 01:38:22.440

Phil: This game that they've moved on from, you know, doing another thing on Death in Texas 2, which is, you know, basically like God of War.

01:38:23.220 --> 01:38:27.360

Phil: A third person action game.

01:38:27.960 --> 01:38:33.220

Phil: And yeah, they're going to actually include that bar section for free, for us to download.

01:38:34.160 --> 01:38:37.840

Tom: So, future players of the game can thank us for that.

01:38:38.580 --> 01:38:42.140

Phil: Yeah, thank us, and we will receive no thanks, as usual.

01:38:42.160 --> 01:38:44.420

Tom: Of course, and not even any subscribers.

01:38:47.200 --> 01:38:48.740

Phil: But anyway, back to Exodus.

01:38:48.940 --> 01:38:52.500

Tom: So, I was talking about how the story is more personal.

01:38:52.600 --> 01:38:55.160

Tom: There was a lack of metaphysical themes.

01:38:55.780 --> 01:39:14.440

Tom: They do still include some degree of political and philosophical commentary, but instead of an interesting, cynical take on specific political ideologies, all we get is $2 store hobs.

01:39:14.540 --> 01:39:30.160

Tom: So, essentially, the desert level is Mad Max, and the commentary on post-apocalyptic bandit introduction is no more interesting than the state of nature's war of all against all.

01:39:31.920 --> 01:39:53.240

Tom: When they do attempt to take it in maybe a slightly more interesting direction, we get the even dumber, because at least the state of nature war against all, war of all against all, has some degree of substance to it in terms of political realism.

01:39:54.040 --> 01:40:17.000

Tom: The level set in Endor features two groups of people who were camping on a pioneer camp trip, which pioneers are basically the Soviet version of the Hitler Youth or the American Scouts.

01:40:17.020 --> 01:40:20.260

Tom: Same thing.

01:40:20.280 --> 01:40:29.160

Tom: That was my point, and they were camping here when the apocalyptic nuclear war hit.

01:40:29.780 --> 01:40:34.920

Tom: They survived though, and they split into two different groups.

01:40:35.140 --> 01:40:46.420

Tom: One group became pirates and one group became pioneers, and both were attempting to follow the teaching of their pioneer leader.

01:40:47.420 --> 01:41:05.980

Tom: It's essentially a sort of Lord of the Flies version of events, though basically just a Lord of the Flies version of events, except that one side was able to remain less brutalized than the other side.

01:41:06.260 --> 01:41:26.240

Tom: But when you're going from the postmodern, cynical take on political ideologies to Hobbesian war of all against all in a state of nature, that's a bad enough step into the murk of shite.

01:41:26.640 --> 01:41:37.520

Tom: When you go into fucking Lord of the Flies fan fiction, from such lofty heights, I don't know what the hell you're doing.

01:41:40.300 --> 01:41:42.080

Tom: So that was very disappointing.

01:41:42.100 --> 01:41:52.840

Tom: But, and I also played the DLC, and I have to mention the DLC, because one of the DLCs is essentially part of the main game's story.

01:41:53.020 --> 01:42:02.700

Tom: And I think greatly improves on how the story ends in the actual game, and should be part of the game.

01:42:02.920 --> 01:42:06.600

Tom: Luckily, it is the cheap DLC.

01:42:06.620 --> 01:42:08.360

Tom: It's only like $8 or something.

01:42:08.860 --> 01:42:15.020

Tom: So at least you don't have to pay a lot of money to experience the end of the game properly.

01:42:15.340 --> 01:42:20.320

Tom: But essentially, and we're now going to get into spoiler territory.

01:42:21.380 --> 01:42:23.780

Tom: So actually I will say a little bit more about the DLC before I do.

01:42:24.260 --> 01:42:43.720

Tom: So the two kernels DLC you play as a kernel in the Metro because part of the game does eventually go back to the Metro, which is clearly you would expect to happen at some point in the game.

01:42:43.740 --> 01:42:45.440

Tom: So I don't think that's too much of a spoiler.

01:42:48.200 --> 01:43:06.320

Tom: What you're doing as that character is concurrent to events that you're doing as Artyom in the main game, and it's also simultaneous with flashbacks to what was going on in that part of the Metro earlier on.

01:43:06.940 --> 01:43:28.280

Tom: And the other DLC Sam's Story is basically an epilogue for one of the characters that accompanies you, and that is more like a full level of the main game in terms of the open world levels, except it's a bit more linear than they are.

01:43:28.780 --> 01:43:49.040

Tom: So that's the more expensive one that is like $20 or something like that, but that is a good five hours or much more than five hours, probably eight to ten hours or longer, depending on how thorough you are in your exploration and collecting of things.

01:43:49.480 --> 01:43:52.660

Tom: So that's pretty impressive for a DLC.

01:43:52.680 --> 01:43:55.700

Tom: That's basically half the length of the main game.

01:43:56.300 --> 01:44:06.860

Tom: And you are going through, I think, a dock area at Vladivostok and the surrounding buildings near there.

01:44:08.180 --> 01:44:17.920

Tom: And that reminds me, I should also add another interesting mechanic that they added to the game, to exploration, is a lot of the time as you're exploring, you'll actually be on a boat.

01:44:19.060 --> 01:44:24.560

Tom: And the way you control the boat is very rudimentary, just moving forwards, backwards and sideways.

01:44:25.140 --> 01:44:38.380

Tom: But it does add, I think, to the atmosphere and the otherworldly feeling of it, particularly after you've gone out of the drudgery and darkness of Metro.

01:44:38.620 --> 01:44:43.440

Tom: It's a very surreal contrast to the previous games.

01:44:43.540 --> 01:44:49.100

Tom: The fact that you spend a lot of the time in a boat, that applies to both the DLC and the main game.

01:44:49.500 --> 01:45:06.640

Tom: And the other interesting thing about Sam's story DLC is the tone of humour is very tongue-in-chic and very Russian in its combination of dark humour and absurdity.

01:45:07.580 --> 01:45:14.880

Tom: And again, with Sam talking, allows for some very amusing moments in terms of the story.

01:45:15.540 --> 01:45:24.300

Tom: And the gameplay as well, it's more limited than the main game, but it is also less stealth-based.

01:45:24.460 --> 01:45:34.820

Tom: And you don't need to not kill anyone at any point in the game, so you can approach things much more aggressively than in the main game for the most part.

01:45:34.840 --> 01:45:43.660

Tom: So it's an opportunity to enjoy the much improved standard ballistics weapons.

01:45:45.980 --> 01:46:04.200

Tom: So now we will have to go into story territory, and as I said, you return at the end of the game to the Metro, and we won't go into too much detail, so the spoilers won't be too bad, but it is an amazing finale.

01:46:04.860 --> 01:46:24.720

Tom: From after you have been exploring the world, returning to the Metro feels simultaneously nice, because you return to something that's been in the previous games, but it is all the more horrific, both due to the part of the Metro that you were exploring being filled with corpses.

01:46:24.780 --> 01:46:26.200

Tom: There's some amazing imagery.

01:46:26.240 --> 01:46:36.900

Tom: At one point, for instance, you are crawling through a carriage of a train with all the seats filled with corpses and things like that.

01:46:37.300 --> 01:46:52.880

Tom: So it's a wonderful contrast between the world that you've been exploring that seems tremendously bleak and is a constant disappointment to the characters who have been trying to find a nice place to settle.

01:46:52.900 --> 01:47:06.480

Tom: When you return to that, you really get the feeling that even in spite of how bad things may be, the Metro was really a very bad place to be in the first place.

01:47:06.500 --> 01:47:09.200

Tom: So it's an amazing contrast in that sense.

01:47:09.320 --> 01:47:37.860

Tom: And for the disappointment in terms of the tightness of the design of previous story sections in the game compared to previous games, while the return to the Metro is not as complicated in terms of gameplay in regards to stealth and combat, the previous games were, in terms of pacing, it is probably their best achievement by far.

01:47:39.040 --> 01:47:44.880

Tom: The way they foreshadow things and build up to stuff you get into is amazing.

01:47:45.200 --> 01:47:57.860

Tom: And the last few moments, which do actually have some interesting stealth sections, are built up amazingly with the tension of what's happening in the narrative.

01:47:58.600 --> 01:48:06.080

Tom: And also, we also do get a few more metaphysical snippets here, albeit they're not thematically interesting.

01:48:06.300 --> 01:48:12.860

Tom: They really add to the atmosphere and the horror of the area you're trying to get to.

01:48:13.300 --> 01:48:23.100

Tom: And the final stealth sections, you are up against probably the toughest enemies in any of the prior Metro games.

01:48:23.440 --> 01:48:34.920

Tom: And if you get noticed by any of them, if you want to fight them, then you will actually be in danger for the first time in the game of running out of ammo.

01:48:36.740 --> 01:48:41.780

Phil: Okay, well now my question is, like, obviously the return to the Metro is a...

01:48:43.080 --> 01:48:46.220

Phil: is obviously, you know, it's needed in a game like this.

01:48:47.940 --> 01:48:52.560

Phil: And it's also a reward and it's a give back to the player.

01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:55.620

Phil: Is it a shorter level?

01:48:55.780 --> 01:48:58.720

Phil: Like, is it a much shorter level than the rest of them?

01:48:58.740 --> 01:49:02.880

Tom: It's as long as the other less open world areas.

01:49:03.080 --> 01:49:11.160

Tom: So, as I said, the first two open world areas are probably five hours long.

01:49:11.180 --> 01:49:15.600

Tom: I said that, but actually they could go longer than that, depending on how much time you spend in them.

01:49:17.100 --> 01:49:23.060

Tom: Then you have, and this is not including, there are interstitial levels as well, but these are the main sections.

01:49:23.080 --> 01:49:27.400

Tom: Then you have the Endor level, which is about two and a half hours.

01:49:27.980 --> 01:49:32.240

Tom: And then you have this Metro level, and that is also about two and a half hours.

01:49:32.560 --> 01:49:40.840

Tom: So it's half the length or so of the main open world areas, but the same length as the long non-open world area.

01:49:41.760 --> 01:49:43.880

Phil: Do you think perhaps that's too long?

01:49:43.900 --> 01:49:53.860

Phil: I mean, because I would have, if I was doing the pacing for that, it would have been, I want to give the player wanting more when you've given them that little...

01:49:53.880 --> 01:49:56.180

Tom: Do you mean the overall game or the ending?

01:49:56.300 --> 01:49:58.380

Phil: No, no, no, the Metro level.

01:49:58.400 --> 01:50:13.160

Tom: Not at all, no, because it goes through several different areas in the Metro, so you have a variety of different styles to explore.

01:50:13.180 --> 01:50:26.180

Tom: So, for instance, one area is completely flooded and you spend a lot of the time navigating a boat through it and then stopping on and off to do various things.

01:50:26.820 --> 01:50:33.820

Tom: And another area is an abandoned area in which people previously lived.

01:50:34.620 --> 01:50:38.100

Tom: So there's a variety of areas in it.

01:50:38.120 --> 01:50:43.000

Tom: It's not like it is just the one tone through which you're going through.

01:50:43.020 --> 01:50:45.940

Phil: Okay, all right, fair enough.

01:50:48.080 --> 01:51:21.840

Tom: And so the two kernels, as I was saying, is actually basically what's happening in the story there is you're trying to find a treatment for Anna's aforementioned lung condition, which was not caused by her chain smoking, but by, this is what they claim anyway, by contamination from a chemical or nuclear or radioactive based thing that she's exposed to earlier on in the story.

01:51:21.860 --> 01:51:26.500

Tom: But my money is on the chain smoking, but that's neither here nor there.

01:51:28.400 --> 01:51:33.820

Tom: And you're going there with the Colonel, who is her father and your father-in-law.

01:51:34.320 --> 01:51:50.280

Tom: And as you're going along, you're exploring two different sections of the Metro and he's trying to get a map, which will hopefully take you to a area that may be inhabitable in the last place.

01:51:50.440 --> 01:52:08.680

Tom: You're going to try that might match Artyom's dream and you are going to eventually attempt to get to a hospital to find the treatment for her lung cancer or other unknown, supposedly different lung condition.

01:52:09.680 --> 01:52:35.360

Tom: But I should also add, and another great thing about that section is that it begins with you on the street in Moscow Outdoors, which is a brilliant place to explore and also one of the few places in the game that have interesting journal entries that really add to the backstory and the setting and atmosphere.

01:52:36.780 --> 01:52:51.240

Tom: And in the Two Kernels DLC, you're not playing as the kernel, but as another kernel, who is the father of a character that you meet in the Metro that Artyom is in.

01:52:52.740 --> 01:52:56.380

Tom: And he eventually joins you, the son, and goes on the train.

01:52:56.400 --> 01:53:15.560

Tom: In the DLC, you're playing as his father, who is also a kernel, and the story basically follows how the people that were living in their society was destroyed and thus all the corpses that you were encountering as you were going through it.

01:53:16.140 --> 01:53:41.980

Tom: And it is, this is where the personal aspect of the writing shows that there was a lot of potential if Artyom had been able to talk to people because the relationship between Artyom, not Artyom, sorry, between the kernel and Anna and between this kernel and his son is really well done and very interesting.

01:53:42.040 --> 01:53:47.040

Tom: And it ends up making the main story of the main game more interesting.

01:53:47.180 --> 01:54:13.560

Tom: Having a, while you're not playing as the kernel, this is Artyom's kernel in the game, as you are moving through the Metro, you get cut scenes where he is commenting on things and addressing things that have happened in the main story and what his motivations and justifications were for jamming the signal of the outside world and that sort of thing.

01:54:13.860 --> 01:54:31.020

Tom: So it really shows that without Glukhovsky, they were perfectly capable of writing an interesting personal story in a way that they weren't in tackling the philosophical and political and metaphysical themes without him.

01:54:33.360 --> 01:54:47.400

Tom: And it simultaneously adds to the disappointment that Artyom did not speak in the main game, but also makes the main game story worthwhile because the Colonel is a major character and an important part of it.

01:54:47.700 --> 01:55:01.220

Tom: But because he's separated from the action a lot of the time, he is not in it enough to really bring any of the personal themes home as far as family is concerned.

01:55:01.240 --> 01:55:02.000

Tom: And that sort of thing.

01:55:02.300 --> 01:55:18.320

Tom: Whereas his appearances in this DLC is in much more depth and manages to, I think, salvage the story of the main game and make it worth experiencing in spite of its failures.

01:55:18.980 --> 01:55:27.320

Tom: And the one other thing that should be noted about the DLC that is interesting is it's completely different in terms of gameplay.

01:55:27.360 --> 01:55:33.920

Tom: It's very much more narrative focused and the gameplay is much simpler.

01:55:33.940 --> 01:55:51.380

Tom: You're essentially moving through the silvery, partially flooded sections of the Metro, returning on the water filtering system and dealing with the large worm infestations with a flamethrower.

01:55:51.400 --> 01:55:54.360

Tom: And that's the only weapon throughout the entire game.

01:55:56.580 --> 01:56:00.720

Phil: Okay, well, that's, I would think that's a negative.

01:56:01.540 --> 01:56:04.620

Tom: I don't think it is, because it is only like two hours long.

01:56:05.200 --> 01:56:09.760

Tom: And it's basically a complement to the game, to the main game.

01:56:09.780 --> 01:56:18.200

Tom: It feels genuinely like a part of the actual game, rather than a DLC, whereas Sam's story is very disconnected from the actual game.

01:56:19.260 --> 01:56:29.940

Tom: This feels like a part of the main game, and it's a two-hour section than essentially in what is a 15-hour-plus game.

01:56:31.840 --> 01:56:40.120

Phil: So before we break out the die of judgement on this game, it sounds like you've got pretty favourable impressions.

01:56:40.120 --> 01:56:45.300

Phil: Is there anything else that we need to discuss before you give it its final score?

01:56:45.320 --> 01:56:56.440

Tom: I do have able impressions, and the one other thing to mention is just aesthetically, the Vladivostok of Sam's story is...

01:56:57.280 --> 01:57:16.760

Tom: Parts of it are really disappointing, and other parts have, again, kind of like the Volga in the main game, a really interesting muted palette that with ray tracing is allowed to have fine and detailed contrast between colours, which result in something that looks really good.

01:57:17.300 --> 01:57:39.420

Tom: But other parts are very much in the enslaved vein of generic grass and vegetation growing everywhere, seaside, dilapidated city, which is a look that basically only enslaved has pulled off in a game that I can think of pretty much.

01:57:39.840 --> 01:57:53.340

Tom: Every other game I've played has the problem of this, which is the color palette is too red and too extreme in its contrasts.

01:57:55.260 --> 01:58:05.440

Tom: I think if you compare enslaved and animations or paintings with similar sort of settings, they never have such extreme contrasts.

01:58:05.560 --> 01:58:11.840

Tom: And the result is just something that looks uglier than is intended, let's put it that way.

01:58:12.860 --> 01:58:23.800

Tom: The other interesting thing about it aesthetically is it's a color palette that is not dissimilar except done in a different setting and to a different successful effect in Stalker.

01:58:24.360 --> 01:58:40.040

Tom: And one can't help but think that this was partially inspired by Stalker, particularly when you consider that in the main game, in your exploration, there are elements of Stalker that are there, like in the Volga.

01:58:41.300 --> 01:58:47.360

Tom: You have anomalies and weird things like that that you encounter and that can kill you.

01:58:49.580 --> 01:58:58.260

Phil: It sounds to me, while you get your Diab judgment note ready, that you are a raytrace convert.

01:58:58.620 --> 01:58:59.820

Phil: You're a big proponent of it.

01:58:59.840 --> 01:59:02.360

Phil: Do you think raytracing is the future?

01:59:03.060 --> 01:59:03.700

Tom: I think it is.

01:59:03.720 --> 01:59:06.720

Tom: It will obviously, without question, be the future.

01:59:07.580 --> 01:59:25.180

Tom: I think it justifies itself as an aesthetic tool for unexpected reasons, such as its effect on colour, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, but it really does make a difference.

01:59:25.260 --> 01:59:38.400

Tom: And another area that I have seen it mentioned elsewhere, though, is the effect that it has in how level of detail comes across and how textures end up looking as well.

01:59:38.440 --> 01:59:56.080

Tom: So while people poo poo it because it obviously does not have much of an effect on gameplay, it is a transformative thing in terms of how games look, not just in terms of realism.

01:59:56.080 --> 02:00:00.080

Tom: My first impressions were on the completely different.

02:00:00.280 --> 02:00:08.820

Tom: I think that's a different way your mind interprets it, because it has some semblance of simulating the way light behaves when you have global illumination on.

02:00:09.060 --> 02:00:30.660

Tom: I think the thing that really ends up sticking with you isn't that, so much as the effect it has on the aesthetics of a game, the way it allows for subtler changes in color, gradiation, through shadows and things like that, as well as the effects that it has on textures.

02:00:30.680 --> 02:00:49.440

Tom: Because obviously having better shadows, as well as more realistic light refraction, will affect the details of certain textures and allow for them to appear to be more detailed, even though the actual level of detail isn't changing.

02:00:51.420 --> 02:01:12.020

Phil: Yeah, I mean, for people to say, oh, it doesn't have that much effect, I mean, I'm assuming that most of the people that decry ray tracing as an inferior technology or a mediocre incremental step in technology don't have it and they're just purpooing it because they don't have it.

02:01:12.980 --> 02:01:24.020

Tom: And simultaneously, the game that got the most shat on at the recent Xbox event or E3 or whatever it was, was the game that conspicuously did not have ray tracing.

02:01:24.940 --> 02:01:25.700

Tom: Halo Infinite.

02:01:25.840 --> 02:01:27.660

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:01:27.800 --> 02:01:29.720

Phil: I mean, I love my computer.

02:01:29.740 --> 02:01:31.240

Phil: We'll talk about this on the next show.

02:01:31.260 --> 02:01:39.740

Phil: I did some upgrades to my PC, but obviously I don't think I'll be able to upgrade this one so that it's ray tracing compatible.

02:01:41.660 --> 02:01:46.880

Tom: And you should wait until the next gen of ray tracing cards are released.

02:01:47.800 --> 02:01:50.740

Phil: Well, that's just it because you're on the bleeding edge of it.

02:01:51.140 --> 02:01:54.480

Phil: You really jumped in at the start of it, really.

02:01:56.440 --> 02:01:57.500

Phil: Is that incorrect?

02:01:57.520 --> 02:01:58.780

Tom: That is absolutely correct.

02:01:59.480 --> 02:02:01.000

Phil: Yeah, but I just love it.

02:02:01.020 --> 02:02:16.980

Phil: I love the fact that you're enjoying it, and it's been great that you've got this new PC and also the Xbox Game Pass has been able to enable you to play so many games, much like Crackdown 3, which is available on Game Pass.

02:02:17.060 --> 02:02:23.360

Tom: It even enabled me to play Metro Exodus until it disabled me from playing Metro Exodus.

02:02:24.240 --> 02:02:24.860

Phil: Why is that?

02:02:25.860 --> 02:02:27.380

Tom: We've been through this, I believe.

02:02:27.400 --> 02:02:28.060

Phil: Yeah, I know.

02:02:28.080 --> 02:02:29.780

Phil: All right, that was an hour ago.

02:02:29.800 --> 02:02:30.800

Phil: Come on, give me a break.

02:02:31.300 --> 02:02:34.820

Phil: All right, so are you ready to give this game a definitive score?

02:02:34.840 --> 02:02:35.160

Phil: Yes, I am.

02:02:35.180 --> 02:02:36.180

Phil: Okay, break out the die.

02:02:36.200 --> 02:02:36.880

Tom: I've got it here.

02:02:36.900 --> 02:02:37.600

Tom: Ready to go.

02:02:38.160 --> 02:02:38.740

Phil: Here we go.

02:02:38.760 --> 02:02:50.260

Phil: Now, I think based on what I've heard from you, you would give this game a 7.5 or possibly even an 8 if you were not using the Die of Judgment.

02:02:50.920 --> 02:02:53.660

Phil: But what does the Die of Judgment have to say?

02:02:53.680 --> 02:02:59.120

Tom: The Die of Judgment, unfortunately, gives it a 5 out of 10.

02:02:59.940 --> 02:03:06.940

Phil: Now, it gives it a 5 out of 10, but as a reviewer, you are able to apply tilt to the Die of Judgment.

02:03:07.380 --> 02:03:13.160

Phil: Would I be correct in that you would add a 2.5 tilt to 3?

02:03:15.140 --> 02:03:20.680

Tom: 2.5 tilt would be to 7.5, I believe, mathematically speaking.

02:03:21.240 --> 02:03:22.440

Phil: Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.

02:03:22.900 --> 02:03:25.800

Phil: Your description of the game, I thought, was a 7.5 to 8.

02:03:26.240 --> 02:03:36.600

Tom: I think, did I end up giving Metro 2033 or last line, I think they were both 8s, possibly.

02:03:37.280 --> 02:03:41.540

Tom: So this would be beneath them and would probably be a 7.5.

02:03:41.560 --> 02:03:45.240

Phil: Okay, but still enjoyable and definitely worth a play.

02:03:45.260 --> 02:03:56.080

Tom: Absolutely, and Gargan and I as well, him seriously, me ironically, have called the Metro games Stalker Lite.

02:03:56.660 --> 02:04:23.260

Tom: This is the first Metro that genuinely is Stalker Lite, and that is a compliment in the sense that all of the gunplay now is incredible and approaching Stalker in terms of the crafting and enjoyment of the shooting, certainly on the same level with approaching it, and the same applies to the exploration elements in the Volga and the Caspian.

02:04:25.000 --> 02:04:25.500

Phil: Excellent.

02:04:25.540 --> 02:04:29.120

Phil: Well, thank you very much for your oral review of Metro Exodus.

02:04:29.140 --> 02:04:33.060

Phil: It's available on pretty much every platform except for Switch, I think.

02:04:34.240 --> 02:04:37.700

Tom: But Metro Redux is available on Switch, I believe.

02:04:38.640 --> 02:04:41.720

Phil: Yeah, so in any case, it's well worth picking up.

02:04:41.740 --> 02:04:51.420

Phil: The people at 4A Games, it's 1 o'clock, or it's 12.30 in the afternoon on Friday when I sent them that email, so hopefully they'll respond.

02:04:51.440 --> 02:04:52.380

Phil: I know they'll respond.

02:04:52.660 --> 02:04:54.000

Tom: Probably by the end of the day.

02:04:54.020 --> 02:04:56.240

Phil: Yeah, I'd say so.

02:04:56.380 --> 02:05:02.860

Phil: But if that's it for you, I'd just like to thank you for listening to our listeners to episode 128.

02:05:02.880 --> 02:05:09.880

Tom: It's not low because I just realised we forgot to give scores to Minecraft Dungeons.

02:05:10.800 --> 02:05:14.220

Tom: And Beat Cop, was there a third game that I finished, or was that it?

02:05:14.540 --> 02:05:17.160

Tom: Oh, and Sky, Children of Light, the new season.

02:05:17.160 --> 02:05:18.460

Phil: No, no, no.

02:05:18.820 --> 02:05:21.640

Tom: So if he is the first dice roll, which game is it for?

02:05:21.800 --> 02:05:22.540

Tom: I'll ask you.

02:05:23.380 --> 02:05:23.920

Phil: Beat Cop.

02:05:27.660 --> 02:05:30.260

Tom: Another, no, not another, three out of ten.

02:05:30.280 --> 02:05:33.440

Phil: I'd acquit, I'd agree with that score.

02:05:33.560 --> 02:05:35.160

Tom: I would give it a lot higher than that.

02:05:35.860 --> 02:05:37.080

Phil: Sky, Children of Light.

02:05:38.560 --> 02:05:39.940

Tom: A four out of ten.

02:05:40.640 --> 02:05:42.460

Phil: I disagree vehemently with that.

02:05:43.060 --> 02:05:45.460

Tom: And what was the third game, Minecraft Dungeons?

02:05:47.920 --> 02:05:49.080

Tom: A five out of ten.

02:05:51.160 --> 02:05:51.620

Phil: Die is...

02:05:51.920 --> 02:05:53.860

Tom: Die has not been kind today.

02:05:54.580 --> 02:05:55.340

Phil: No, it hasn't.

02:05:56.020 --> 02:05:59.700

Phil: Maybe next time around in episode 129 it will be good.

02:05:59.720 --> 02:06:03.420

Phil: Thank you for listening to episode 128 of The Game Under Podcast.

02:06:03.440 --> 02:06:09.760

Phil: Please visit gameunder.net to read Tom and my reviews, articles and commentary.

02:06:09.780 --> 02:06:12.900

Phil: I don't know if you saw the last sad article that I put up.

02:06:13.060 --> 02:06:14.440

Tom: I did indeed, actually.

02:06:15.380 --> 02:06:16.320

Tom: And I commented.

02:06:17.320 --> 02:06:17.820

Phil: Oh, really?

02:06:19.160 --> 02:06:20.200

Phil: I wasn't notified.

02:06:21.440 --> 02:06:23.540

Tom: I'll give you my comment live on air.

02:06:26.620 --> 02:06:27.460

Phil: I'm listening.

02:06:27.660 --> 02:06:30.460

Tom: It has to go to the site.

02:06:30.480 --> 02:06:32.200

Phil: Oh, you have to go read your comment.

02:06:32.480 --> 02:06:37.640

Phil: So Tom's going to gameunder.net, just like you can, and read about...

02:06:37.660 --> 02:06:41.220

Phil: I played the original SimCity back in the day.

02:06:42.040 --> 02:06:43.200

Phil: So what was your comment, Mr.

02:06:43.220 --> 02:06:43.380

Phil: Towers?

02:06:43.400 --> 02:06:54.040

Tom: My comment was, the next time you come back to it, you're going to be even more embarrassed, discovering a naivete that did not, not know the current inhibitors, but internalise them.

02:06:54.480 --> 02:06:58.660

Tom: Which is to say, what a terrible decision it was to delete Phallus Island.

02:07:01.820 --> 02:07:03.420

Phil: Ah, you always end with a bang.

02:07:03.460 --> 02:07:04.120

Phil: That's good.

02:07:04.340 --> 02:07:05.860

Phil: I love it.

02:07:06.100 --> 02:07:07.520

Tom: Just as Phallus Island did.

02:07:10.780 --> 02:07:15.380

Phil: So go to gameunder.net, read my last sad story about SimCity.

02:07:15.800 --> 02:07:22.020

Phil: SimCity, the original, actually, that I wrote a few years ago when I was without internet.

02:07:22.940 --> 02:07:26.660

Phil: And I wrote that in notepad, believe it or not, because I had no internet.

02:07:27.320 --> 02:07:30.780

Phil: You can also listen to us on stitcher.com and soon Spotify.

02:07:31.260 --> 02:07:35.600

Phil: And please leave us a positive review on your podcasting platform of choice.

02:07:36.200 --> 02:07:39.040

Phil: It helps others to find our podcast.

02:07:39.240 --> 02:07:44.080

Phil: You can follow us on Twitter at Game Under Phil, and you've taken over that Twitter account.

02:07:44.100 --> 02:07:46.740

Phil: Have you done anything with Game Under Phil at Twitter?

02:07:47.240 --> 02:07:48.340

Tom: Have I taken it over?

02:07:49.140 --> 02:07:50.020

Phil: Yeah, well, you did.

02:07:50.040 --> 02:07:50.600

Phil: You said.

02:07:50.620 --> 02:07:51.640

Phil: I gave you the password.

02:07:51.660 --> 02:07:55.380

Tom: Well, I posted a Metro Exodus video on social distancing.

02:07:56.940 --> 02:07:57.420

Phil: Okay.

02:07:57.460 --> 02:07:58.660

Phil: Did you get any responses?

02:07:59.080 --> 02:07:59.740

Tom: Of course not.

02:08:00.600 --> 02:08:01.440

Phil: Well, come on.

02:08:01.880 --> 02:08:04.660

Phil: You're in charge of Game Under Phil at twitter.com.

02:08:05.780 --> 02:08:08.440

Phil: You're the champ at these pithy comments.

02:08:08.440 --> 02:08:10.360

Phil: Twitter is a platform designed for you.

02:08:11.060 --> 02:08:14.080

Phil: But thanks everyone for listening to episode 128.

02:08:14.160 --> 02:08:15.100

Phil: I am Tom Towers.

02:08:15.660 --> 02:08:18.540

Tom: I am Phil Fogg on Twitter, apparently.

02:08:19.540 --> 02:08:21.440

Phil: You are Game Under Phil on Twitter.

02:08:21.460 --> 02:08:21.720

Tom: Correct.

02:08:22.080 --> 02:08:38.540

Tom: And if you want to see the photos, the images that Phil teased you in regards to Beat Cop and Metro in the previous episode, you can find them on the Twitter post for that episode of The Game Under Podcast, I believe.

02:08:38.560 --> 02:08:39.320

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

02:08:39.320 --> 02:08:41.960

Phil: And also the photos of Police Quest as well.

02:08:42.360 --> 02:08:45.340

Phil: It is at gameunder.net.

02:08:45.360 --> 02:08:52.760

Phil: Thanks for listening and stay tuned for episode 129 where we will have the response from 4A Games to our questions about Demetri.

02:08:53.500 --> 02:08:54.020

Phil: Bye, Tom.

02:08:55.460 --> 02:08:55.800

Phil: Goodbye.

02:09:10.460 --> 02:09:11.740

Tom: I didn't bring up Neo-Nazis.

02:09:12.980 --> 02:09:14.540

Tom: We've been teasing this for too long.

02:09:14.560 --> 02:09:15.760

Tom: We have to get it out of the way.

02:09:17.680 --> 02:09:17.900

Tom: Yes.

02:09:17.920 --> 02:09:18.820

Tom: Not the comic book?

02:09:18.840 --> 02:09:20.700

Phil: No, the best Neo-Nazi novel.

02:09:25.720 --> 02:09:31.540

Tom: We have to finally put this to bed once and for all because it's been teased in several episodes.

02:09:31.940 --> 02:09:37.400

Phil: I've got to put my daughter to bed, which I think is more important than putting Neo-Nazi novels to bed.

02:09:38.080 --> 02:09:40.240

Phil: We'll hit this up in episode 129.

02:09:40.640 --> 02:09:41.520

Phil: If that's okay.

02:09:42.280 --> 02:09:42.800

Tom: Okay.

02:09:43.000 --> 02:09:43.540

Phil: Okay.

02:09:43.560 --> 02:09:45.680

Tom: We're heading for yet another episode.

02:09:46.060 --> 02:09:47.260

Phil: Good night, dear listeners.

02:09:47.300 --> 02:09:51.220

Phil: Next episode, Neo-Nazi novels and four games.

02:09:51.940 --> 02:09:56.540

Phil: Comment about our question as to why Dimitri is snubbing them.

02:09:56.740 --> 02:09:57.240

Phil: Thank you.

02:09:57.760 --> 02:09:58.480

Phil: You just...

02:09:58.800 --> 02:10:03.380

Phil: I had the perfect intro, outro, written, and you've got it blunt.

02:10:03.680 --> 02:10:06.080

Phil: Anyway, we'll give the listeners some music to listen to.

02:10:06.340 --> 02:10:08.160

Phil: How about the song from...

02:10:08.160 --> 02:10:10.520

Phil: What was that game, sir?

02:10:10.540 --> 02:10:11.140

Phil: You were hunted?

02:10:11.160 --> 02:10:11.600

Tom: Yes.

02:10:12.540 --> 02:10:12.900

Phil: All right.

02:10:12.920 --> 02:10:17.240

Phil: We'll give them that as the outro music, as a reward for my spoiled outro.

02:10:17.280 --> 02:10:24.900

Tom: You should give them, instead of that, another upper-class English rapper, Unknown P.

02:10:25.280 --> 02:10:27.540

Phil: Yeah, but I don't want to be taken down.

02:10:27.560 --> 02:10:30.960

Phil: I don't want to be copyright infringement, you know.

02:10:36.820 --> 02:10:37.240

Phil: Okay.

02:10:37.260 --> 02:10:37.760

Phil: All right.

02:10:37.780 --> 02:10:38.240

Phil: Very good.

02:10:38.280 --> 02:10:39.440

Phil: Unknown urine.

02:10:39.620 --> 02:10:41.800

Phil: And here's his latest hit, Anonymous Urine.

02:10:46.380 --> 02:10:48.280

Phil: Okay, I am Phil Fogg.

02:10:48.300 --> 02:10:49.980

Phil: Thanks for ruining the outro, Tom.

02:10:50.340 --> 02:10:52.500

Phil: We did a professional outro just once.

02:10:52.900 --> 02:10:54.340

Phil: You couldn't let it go.

02:10:54.960 --> 02:10:58.400

Phil: Well, I could, but that's not the kind of podcast we are.

02:10:58.660 --> 02:11:01.680

Phil: The music's going to be rolling under this, so we can just keep talking.

02:11:02.560 --> 02:11:06.420

Tom: The next episode, we're also going to have a eulogy, I believe.

02:11:06.860 --> 02:11:07.800

Phil: Oh, of who?

02:11:08.100 --> 02:11:11.080

Tom: Well, we may as well do it now, then.

02:11:11.100 --> 02:11:12.840

Phil: No, no, the music's rolling.

02:11:12.860 --> 02:11:14.100

Phil: We're gone.

02:11:14.120 --> 02:11:18.880

Phil: So, I heard Herman Cain died.

02:11:22.200 --> 02:11:23.520

Phil: You know who Herman Cain is?

02:11:23.540 --> 02:11:24.180

Tom: Yes, I do.

02:11:24.260 --> 02:11:26.840

Phil: He's the guy with the 999 deal.

02:11:27.140 --> 02:11:29.900

Tom: I don't know if he has a 999 deal.

02:11:29.940 --> 02:11:34.000

Tom: I just remember he's in a meme, isn't he?

02:11:34.040 --> 02:11:37.720

Tom: As well as having run for president at some point in a comical fashion.

02:11:38.620 --> 02:11:45.780

Phil: He had the 999 deal, because he worked for Domino's, had something to do with Domino's, and it was the 999 deal.

02:11:45.800 --> 02:11:48.820

Phil: You know, you get nine slices for nine cents, or whatever it was.

02:11:48.840 --> 02:11:55.980

Phil: But then he also had a tax thing, like, you know, you pay 9% of taxes, and I don't know what the rest of it was.

02:11:56.480 --> 02:11:59.760

Phil: But anyway, he's dead, so Herman Cain is dead.

02:11:59.780 --> 02:12:12.060

Phil: And I've got to say, about a eulogy show, I am really disappointed, because I put that together and posted it, and then you came back and said like, oh, you didn't do the Ryan Davis, and you didn't do this.

02:12:12.140 --> 02:12:15.760

Phil: Apparently, there are more eulogies than what I posted.

02:12:15.780 --> 02:12:16.600

Tom: You couldn't even remember.

02:12:17.740 --> 02:12:26.460

Phil: Well, I just basically went to our site, gameunder.net, and in the amazing search tool, put in eulogy or died, and then just snipped those together.

02:12:26.480 --> 02:12:30.320

Phil: I didn't do, you know, I couldn't, I didn't do the Ryan Davis stuff.

02:12:30.980 --> 02:12:32.380

Phil: So I apologize for that.

02:12:34.620 --> 02:12:35.760

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

02:12:35.800 --> 02:12:39.580

Phil: Well, you know, there's, we can do a filler show at some point in the future.

02:12:40.620 --> 02:12:44.000

Phil: Um, but, um, what was your point about Herman Cain?

02:12:44.100 --> 02:12:48.040

Tom: Well, no, it wasn't Herman Cain, but it was related to American politics.

02:12:49.120 --> 02:12:52.080

Tom: It was Michael Brooks, a YouTuber.

02:12:52.960 --> 02:12:53.580

Phil: Never heard of him.

02:12:53.580 --> 02:12:54.260

Tom: You wouldn't have.

02:12:54.520 --> 02:13:00.540

Tom: Who, I think he's on the Majority Report, which you also probably haven't heard of.

02:13:01.200 --> 02:13:02.080

Phil: No, I've heard of that.

02:13:02.100 --> 02:13:09.480

Tom: Well, he was previously, I think, a co-host on it, but he had his own YouTube show, and...

02:13:10.400 --> 02:13:12.100

Phil: Was he a right-winger, or...?

02:13:12.140 --> 02:13:13.420

Tom: I don't think he's a right-winger.

02:13:13.440 --> 02:13:14.080

Tom: No, he is...

02:13:15.080 --> 02:13:17.420

Tom: He is certainly a left-winger, I believe.

02:13:17.480 --> 02:13:18.600

Phil: Okay, so he's safe.

02:13:18.620 --> 02:13:18.940

Tom: Yes.

02:13:19.160 --> 02:13:20.740

Phil: Well, except for the fact he's dead.

02:13:20.760 --> 02:13:21.000

Tom: Yes.

02:13:22.200 --> 02:13:24.520

Phil: Well, he's actually safer than ever now, but...

02:13:24.540 --> 02:13:37.760

Tom: Well, what's impressive about this is, it again goes back to the previous commentary on Marxists not being involved in any of these historical moments they keep predicting in America.

02:13:40.840 --> 02:13:42.820

Tom: And just on that point, I mentioned that...

02:13:42.920 --> 02:13:50.620

Tom: I forgot to say why I brought that up, because it seems unrelated to games or art in general, but are you familiar with the novel The Invisible Man?

02:13:50.640 --> 02:13:51.740

Phil: I am.

02:13:51.960 --> 02:13:52.300

Tom: Yes.

02:13:52.320 --> 02:14:01.040

Tom: Well, in The Invisible Man, the protagonist in that gets involved with the Communist Party in America at the time.

02:14:01.600 --> 02:14:08.060

Tom: And there is the beginning of a riot and the possibility of mass class action.

02:14:08.320 --> 02:14:11.960

Tom: But the Communist Party decides, of course, that they...

02:14:12.220 --> 02:14:19.360

Tom: that this is not the correct historical moment for them to do anything for once and so naturally do absolutely nothing.

02:14:19.800 --> 02:14:37.660

Tom: And the accuracy the Marxist commentary that I've seen on the protests and riots in America is just amazing and gave me a greater appreciation for that book than I previously had.

02:14:38.100 --> 02:14:39.140

Phil: The Invisible Man.

02:14:39.200 --> 02:14:42.700

Phil: Alright, well I'll check that out when I'm done with the Chronicles of Narnia.

02:14:42.720 --> 02:14:46.840

Tom: Yep, but that would not necessarily apply to Michael Brooks.

02:14:46.860 --> 02:14:49.000

Tom: I bring him up just because on...

02:14:49.060 --> 02:14:49.700

Phil: Oh, he died.

02:14:49.720 --> 02:14:50.280

Tom: He died.

02:14:50.800 --> 02:14:51.960

Phil: Yeah, that's what I heard.

02:14:51.980 --> 02:14:52.240

Phil: Yeah.

02:14:52.820 --> 02:14:54.740

Tom: I bring you up just for two reasons.

02:14:54.940 --> 02:15:45.520

Tom: One, unlike most people who are brought up as having died young, and it's such a tragedy he died so young, like the 50-year-old Awata and so forth, he was only 36, which does even by the standards of the 30-year average age of the past that wasn't accurate, qualify as young, impressively, and two, the only notable thing about him was that in spite of being a Marxist, his knowledge of South American and Central American left-wing politics was actually quite good, and he managed to cover those topics without being tremendously patronising and obnoxious.

02:15:45.540 --> 02:15:49.140

Phil: And racist, like everyone else who's ever covered those topics.

02:15:49.700 --> 02:15:51.680

Phil: Well, if he's done that, my hat's off to him.

02:15:52.160 --> 02:15:56.300

Tom: And the last reason was in regards to your Ryan Davis coverage.

02:15:56.320 --> 02:16:04.620

Tom: Now, I did not have any emotional reaction to this, nor was I a religious watcher of his show or anything like that.

02:16:05.340 --> 02:16:16.960

Tom: But, out of morbid curiosity, I watched a lot of the channels and so forth, commentary on him.

02:16:17.600 --> 02:16:39.660

Tom: And it's, and again, this is not me making a judgmental comment on any of the people covering his death in the way that they did and talking about their relationships with him and about what his life was like and his achievements and so on and so forth.

02:16:40.360 --> 02:17:03.980

Tom: But it is, to me, a very surreal and weird world in which that sort of commentary is released to the public as part of the general media and also consumed by people not out of morbid curiosity who were familiar with the deceased.

02:17:04.760 --> 02:17:05.040

Phil: Yeah.

02:17:06.920 --> 02:17:10.980

Phil: Look, yeah, it's interesting from a sociological perspective.

02:17:13.680 --> 02:17:14.600

Phil: It is interesting.

02:17:14.600 --> 02:17:17.120

Phil: But I'll leave it at that and we'll close out the show.

02:17:17.320 --> 02:17:19.000

Phil: Well, we've already closed out the show.

02:17:19.020 --> 02:17:20.640

Phil: At this point, sir, you're being hunted.

02:17:20.660 --> 02:17:21.440

Phil: Music is over.

02:17:22.580 --> 02:17:24.420

Phil: Anyway, Tom, we'll talk to you next time.

02:17:24.440 --> 02:17:26.780

Tom: International Workers of the World Unite is playing.

02:17:28.360 --> 02:17:29.220

Phil: Yes, that's right.

02:17:29.960 --> 02:17:31.440

Phil: Which is a much worse song.

02:17:31.800 --> 02:17:32.260

Phil: Absolutely.

Tom: It is.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Adios.

Game Under Podcast 127

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Intro
0:00:10 Democracy is Dead in Victoria, (Apparently)

Final Impressions
0:05:35 Sludge Life for PC and Switch
0:23:35 Stranger Things 3 The Game & Ready Player One
0:27:51 Sky: Children of Light "Expansion" Season of Sanctuary
0:36:42 Death and Taxes (soilers at 52 minutes)
1:01:21 Beat Cop

Trademark Banter
1:27:45 Metro Exodus and Various Game Store Platforms
1:41:30 Armchair Marxism

Transcript

Phil: Hello, and welcome to Episode 127 of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: I'm your co-host, Phil Fogg, and I'm joined by Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, how are you?

Tom: I am surprisingly well, given the cold and wet weather, and that I believe, according to Alan Jones, democracy is dead in Victoria.

Phil: Democracy is dead in your home state?

Tom: Yes, it is, apparently.

Phil: Is that because of the, now you guys have had a bit of a situation with the whole virus thing, SARS-2, is that, have your liberties been taken away from you more so than recently?

Tom: Well, I did not look in any more.

Tom: This was on a YouTube thumbnail featuring Alan Jones.

Tom: So I don't actually want to know why, but I would suspect probably the main reason, according to Alan Jones, that democracy will be dead in Victoria would be the fact that a Labour party was elected some time ago.

Tom: So that would probably be the reason.

Phil: All right, so for our internationalist, Alan Jones, classify him as a conservative talk show host.

Phil: He's on AM radio or FM radio.

Tom: Alan Jones is essentially a polite version of Alex Jones and Australian without the wonderful existential commentary of Alex Jones.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, look, I'm glad to be here.

00:01:40.300 --> 00:01:42.940

Phil: I know that we were very upbeat the last time that we spoke.

00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:47.400

Phil: And then since then, I've been listening to various other video game podcasts.

00:01:47.420 --> 00:01:50.960

Phil: It's been quite dank and dire.

00:01:51.040 --> 00:02:04.560

Phil: There's like a major podcast that opened up in its first like hour was talking about a resurgence of Me Too affecting the game community and entertainment community and all this sort of thing.

00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:10.900

Phil: And I was like, the only place I actually heard about it was on video game podcasts.

00:02:10.920 --> 00:02:14.320

Phil: I didn't hear about it anywhere else in everything else that I listened to.

00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:18.380

Phil: And you know, I listen to copious amounts of media every week.

00:02:19.040 --> 00:02:20.520

Phil: Have you picked up on this at all?

00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:28.140

Tom: I think there's something going on in a few large developers, possibly Ubisoft.

00:02:29.300 --> 00:02:34.740

Tom: And also, I think, again, more things in the fighting game community.

00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:36.740

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I heard about that.

00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:38.820

Tom: But I don't know many details.

00:02:39.220 --> 00:02:44.580

Phil: Yeah, and there's also been some scuttlebutt in the game press as well.

00:02:44.600 --> 00:02:47.660

Phil: And I think that's probably what they were self-flagellating themselves about.

00:02:48.660 --> 00:02:54.800

Phil: But really, ultimately, I just don't get all of the negativity.

00:02:54.820 --> 00:02:59.760

Phil: And people, you know, being freaked out about staying at home for such a long period, I just don't get it.

00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.780

Phil: I would love to have an extended period of time at home.

00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:07.160

Tom: The air quality is significantly better here.

00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:08.960

Tom: Less traffic noise.

00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:18.180

Tom: And the people who were able to at least walk around are significantly more relaxed and friendly than usual.

00:03:18.660 --> 00:03:23.420

Phil: Yeah, yeah, because maybe because they're appreciating, you know, walking around more than not.

00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:24.340

Phil: Indeed.

00:03:24.380 --> 00:03:25.160

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:03:25.600 --> 00:03:27.220

Phil: Anyway, I just thought that was interesting.

00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:32.960

Phil: And in other bad news or whatever else, The Game Informer continues to collapse.

00:03:32.980 --> 00:03:44.120

Phil: And I guess at this point, I'll just stop mentioning it in the show because it just seems to be a weekly thing where the final video game magazine is going away.

00:03:44.140 --> 00:03:47.920

Tom: Hasn't Game Informer gone away about five times now?

00:03:48.040 --> 00:03:50.020

Phil: Well, they just keep whittling it away.

00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:55.340

Phil: And then finally, their chief editor, who'd been there for 29 years, finally got the picture and left.

00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.340

Phil: And then a couple of other people left as well.

00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.140

Phil: So I don't know why...

00:04:00.160 --> 00:04:06.400

Tom: As disappointed as you will be when Game Informer finally ceases to exist, I will be equally pleased because...

00:04:06.640 --> 00:04:07.940

Phil: You don't have to hear about this anymore.

00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:08.440

Tom: Exactly.

00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:09.040

Phil: Yeah.

00:04:09.380 --> 00:04:12.980

Phil: Look, the thing is, I don't think they're actually even very good at what they do.

00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:17.700

Phil: In fact, they've been consistently poor with their podcast since inception.

00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.520

Phil: Their reviews are poor, their features are poor.

00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:22.620

Phil: I don't know why I care.

00:04:22.700 --> 00:04:27.280

Phil: I guess it's just the tangible magazine, which they cancelled in Australia long ago.

00:04:27.860 --> 00:04:35.240

Tom: Much like Hyper, which has been awful for many, many years, if not perhaps a decade or so.

00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:45.480

Tom: And who knows if it still exists or not, but it would be a pity if it did in fact cease to exist, in spite of its atrocious state of existence.

00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.700

Phil: I went into a newsagent last week to get a video game magazine.

00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:52.280

Phil: They had absolutely nothing, like there was nothing.

00:04:52.840 --> 00:04:53.980

Phil: I take that back.

00:04:54.300 --> 00:05:04.560

Phil: There was a magazine called PlayStation 5 that had a picture of the PlayStation 5 controller on the front, and a tagline that says, everything you need to know about the PlayStation 5 controller.

00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:09.820

Phil: And of course, this is two weeks after the actual console has been revealed.

00:05:10.740 --> 00:05:13.600

Phil: And it was about 30 pages long and $17.

00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:14.740

Phil: And so I was just like...

00:05:14.760 --> 00:05:17.940

Tom: So it was more so an advertising pamphlet by the sense of it.

00:05:18.200 --> 00:05:19.940

Phil: Yeah, for $17.

00:05:21.260 --> 00:05:29.060

Phil: But, you know, in positive news, in the small amount of time I have been able to play video games, I've been really quite enjoying it.

00:05:29.200 --> 00:05:38.820

Phil: And I know that we've played a couple of games in common recently, one of which was given away for free on Epic Games called Sludge Life.

00:05:38.860 --> 00:05:44.940

Phil: Now, you're going to have to lead on this one, because I don't know too much about who made it or anything about the backstory.

00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:55.340

Tom: Well, the first thing to mention about Sludge Life, which I have found to be lacking in most coverage of the game, but the soundtrack is by Dose One.

00:05:58.400 --> 00:06:02.780

Tom: And I'm sure you have heard of Dose One and are familiar with his work.

00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:04.940

Phil: Well, he has a very...

00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.680

Phil: I can see why you would like him, because he has a very...

00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.540

Phil: How would you say it?

00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:19.760

Phil: He's a style that relies heavily on wordplay or just speaking, and he has an interesting voice himself.

00:06:19.780 --> 00:06:26.540

Phil: And I've often wondered if he's got a hearing impairment of some kind in the way that he modifies his voice.

00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.420

Phil: But like all good rappers, it works to great effect.

00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:32.780

Phil: And he has a very...

00:06:33.020 --> 00:06:40.540

Tom: And interestingly in this, usually in most of his work, he's got a very high-pitched grating voice.

00:06:40.580 --> 00:06:55.220

Tom: But in Sludge Life, in the few songs in the game where there is any rapping, it is in the DJ screw tape style of slowed down, very deep vocals.

00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.700

Phil: Which kind of matches with the visuals of the game, I think.

00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:01.080

Tom: Absolutely.

00:07:01.700 --> 00:07:08.880

Tom: But he is one of the most important indie rappers.

00:07:08.900 --> 00:07:23.500

Tom: He was a co-founder of Anticon, which was the biggest indie rap slash underground rap label of the second wave of it outside of definitive juxt slash deaf juxt.

00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:31.880

Tom: So it's pretty surprising that no one seems to have picked up on this as being a significant thing about it.

00:07:31.900 --> 00:07:46.160

Tom: And certainly a lot of reviews mention how great the soundtrack is, and they will mention who made it, but not his history as one of the most important indie rappers.

00:07:46.180 --> 00:07:54.800

Tom: And he was in Cloud Dead as well, and deep puddle dynamics to very important rap groups.

00:07:54.880 --> 00:08:28.820

Tom: And I have to give a shout out to Bugsy, who put me on to Cloud Dead because he mentioned it when he saw that I was listening to Eskimo by The Residents, a band we've mentioned on here before, and said that it was very similar to that, which is something I don't think many people would notice, but the fake Eskimo speech of Eskimo by The Residents is indeed quite similar to the rapping style on Cloud Dead.

00:08:28.840 --> 00:08:36.640

Tom: And there are obviously similarities in the ambient rap beat style compared to the ambient rock style of The Residents.

00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.740

Phil: So the name of the artist is Doseone, that's D-O-S-E-O-N-E.

00:08:41.140 --> 00:08:51.320

Phil: And in looking up this game, I'm just going to read the description of it, but most importantly, and I did say more importantly, the developer is actually listed as Terry Velman and Doseone.

00:08:51.380 --> 00:08:54.120

Phil: So Doseone actually gets a development credit on it.

00:08:54.920 --> 00:09:01.600

Phil: If the game is published, it's no surprise by Devolver Digital, and it's available on PC and Nintendo Switch.

00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:02.860

Phil: So I'm just going to read the description.

00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:03.900

Phil: It's here because it's pretty good.

00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:12.480

Phil: Sludge Life is a first-person, vandalism-centric stroll through a polluted island full of cranky idiots and a vibe so thick you can taste it.

00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:18.600

Phil: Roam a tiny island, stuck on a sludge-covered planet as an upcoming tagger ghost.

00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:22.200

Phil: And that's, so it's first person.

00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.960

Tom: So we basically don't need to comment on that.

00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:25.420

Phil: Do anything.

00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:26.800

Phil: No, I mean, that's it right there.

00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:28.760

Phil: I gave it a 7.3 out of 10.

00:09:28.780 --> 00:09:29.240

Phil: How about you?

00:09:29.680 --> 00:09:33.560

Tom: Well, I will have to get the dice out to rate it.

00:09:33.580 --> 00:09:39.120

Tom: And the dice is fittingly a vomitous sort of green colour.

00:09:39.780 --> 00:09:46.720

Tom: But before we do that, what wasn't mentioned other than that it was vandalism-centric was much about the gameplay.

00:09:46.800 --> 00:10:04.400

Tom: And essentially, it is basically a platforming, first person platforming game where the focus is more so on exploration and figuring out how to get things than it is on the actual platforming part of the game.

00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:08.940

Tom: The platforming is very janky at first.

00:10:09.160 --> 00:10:17.760

Tom: It required a fair bit of fiddling around with the mouse sensitivity to get it to a reasonably playable state.

00:10:17.780 --> 00:10:18.980

Tom: But once I did...

00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:19.180

Tom: What?

00:10:19.220 --> 00:10:21.800

Phil: A first person platformer that's somewhat janky?

00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:22.860

Phil: How could this be?

00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:24.640

Phil: I thought they'd mastered this.

00:10:24.660 --> 00:10:25.660

Tom: Which isn't at all janky.

00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:29.080

Phil: No, it's not, but it's also a lot on rails, secretly.

00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:31.300

Tom: I don't think it actually is.

00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:39.900

Tom: When you actually go around exploring and attempting to be as fast as possible in Mirror's Edge, I don't think it is on rails at all.

00:10:40.780 --> 00:10:44.380

Tom: I think that is a slanderous statement.

00:10:45.020 --> 00:10:57.280

Phil: I just thought that there were these massive hitboxes in Mirror's Edge that if you could get your body into, they'd prepare you a little bit around and into the next part, and then you had to jump and hit the next hitbox.

00:10:57.300 --> 00:11:02.260

Tom: There is that to some degree, but I think you were exaggerating it slightly.

00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:03.600

Phil: Well, it's not on rails.

00:11:03.620 --> 00:11:07.780

Phil: It's jumped from rail to rail.

00:11:09.020 --> 00:11:14.120

Phil: Anyway, so you were able to get this working properly after you mucked around with your mouse?

00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:15.280

Tom: Yes, I was indeed.

00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:28.400

Tom: The interesting thing about the platforming is, unlike Mirror's Edge, it does not signpost everything to the same obnoxious degree that gets in the way of the aesthetic.

00:11:28.420 --> 00:11:35.840

Tom: There is certainly signposting, but a lot of the details on how the platforming works isn't really signposted at all.

00:11:35.860 --> 00:11:51.640

Tom: So for instance, there's a climbing mechanic where you are not just jumping up and onto things, but if you have the door of a crate in front of you and it has the bars, you can actually climb along them.

00:11:51.740 --> 00:12:10.160

Tom: And little details like that aren't really explained, which I thought was to its betterment rather than detriment, because it kept things more interesting and it gave it more of a puzzle-solving sense, even though there are only two or three puzzles in the game.

00:12:10.780 --> 00:12:16.120

Tom: But those two or three puzzles in the game, again, I think deserve a lot of credit.

00:12:16.140 --> 00:12:22.940

Tom: They are not at all explained, but how you actually solve them is very, very clever.

00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.720

Tom: And once you figure it out, it is extremely satisfying.

00:12:27.220 --> 00:12:30.640

Phil: Was there one where you have to do something with a large piece of celery?

00:12:30.800 --> 00:12:33.340

Phil: Or was that a dream I had?

00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.560

Phil: Or was it large carrot?

00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:36.880

Tom: I think that may have been a dream.

00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:38.760

Phil: Okay, with a crane?

00:12:38.780 --> 00:12:40.540

Phil: Crane was involved in some manner?

00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:41.820

Tom: There was a saddle.

00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:51.260

Tom: Well, there are cranes in the game that you can climb to the top of and jump off and use a glider that is one of the items that you find in the game.

00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:53.620

Tom: To fly around in.

00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:57.760

Phil: How would you describe the visual pastiche of the game?

00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:01.620

Tom: A very cartoony visual style.

00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:06.440

Tom: The tradition of indie comics, I would say.

00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:13.060

Phil: Yeah, it's not cartoon-like, but it's got a sort of a fishbowl filter the whole time.

00:13:13.140 --> 00:13:14.840

Phil: So it's sort of...

00:13:14.860 --> 00:13:17.020

Tom: It's more so of a pixelated filter.

00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:17.800

Phil: Yeah.

00:13:18.020 --> 00:13:20.060

Tom: To make it a very low res.

00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:21.200

Phil: Right.

00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:29.320

Phil: And it sort of looks in some manner like a PlayStation 1 game, like Gran Turismo 1, where everything's sort of a bit fluid.

00:13:30.980 --> 00:13:32.160

Phil: But in a way.

00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:33.140

Tom: Exactly.

00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:44.420

Tom: And if you alter the config file, or just look it up on YouTube, essentially the graphics are cell shaded, but there is a filter over it to pixelate everything.

00:13:44.620 --> 00:13:45.480

Phil: That's what I figured.

00:13:45.560 --> 00:13:45.880

Phil: Yeah.

00:13:46.400 --> 00:13:47.300

Phil: I figured as such.

00:13:48.020 --> 00:13:58.780

Tom: And personally, I think the filter greatly improves the visual style, adding to the aesthetic of the experience.

00:13:58.920 --> 00:14:00.400

Phil: It's what you want with a video game.

00:14:00.420 --> 00:14:09.040

Phil: I mean, you see it in motion, and it immediately underscores some of the themes of the games, but it also gives it a very unique identity.

00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.620

Phil: I mean, like, you know, there's some games you look at and it could be anything.

00:14:13.660 --> 00:14:21.440

Phil: This particular game, there's no question that once you've associated it with Sludge Life, you could see any frame from that game and go, that's Sludge Life.

00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:23.240

Tom: Absolutely.

00:14:23.620 --> 00:14:26.660

Phil: It does have a vandalism bent to it.

00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:29.420

Phil: I mean, that is pretty much the point of the game, right?

00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:52.080

Tom: Essentially, the goal of the game is to, in terms of the story, to escape the island, and you can escape the island without doing much graffiti or potentially any graffiti at all, because you have to get to a certain area and steal something to be able to escape.

00:14:52.740 --> 00:15:11.180

Tom: Another ending you can also theoretically get to without doing any graffiti, but the best ending of the game, which is known as the weird ending, to get that you do need to hit all the graffiti spots in the game.

00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.220

Tom: I think there are 100 in total.

00:15:13.860 --> 00:15:14.980

Phil: Have you got to the end of the game?

00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:15.840

Tom: Yes, I have.

00:15:15.900 --> 00:15:18.140

Tom: I have 100%ed it.

00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:21.400

Phil: So you've got all 100 vandalism marks.

00:15:21.420 --> 00:15:25.720

Tom: Yes, and also all the other side things as well.

00:15:26.020 --> 00:15:32.660

Phil: As you go through the game, does the vandalism change or is it the same throughout?

00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:46.980

Tom: It's the same throughout, but a couple of them require some reasonable feats of platforming as well as reasonable feats of puzzle solving, at least two or three.

00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:57.960

Phil: If they had added different modes of vandalism, like stencils or whatever, would that have hurt the game, you think, or taken away from it?

00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:12.360

Tom: I think the focus is, rather than, say, in getting up, I think the focus here is more so on the platforming than the end point of the graffiti.

00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:23.640

Tom: And I also think it fits better the style of the game that it is about tagging and best throw-ups rather than doing pieces and that sort of thing.

00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:25.600

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:16:25.640 --> 00:16:35.080

Phil: A lot of attention, in fact, pretty much all the attention from anyone on this game has been the use of drugs and being under the influence of drugs.

00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.180

Phil: I don't know, it didn't seem to...

00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:43.540

Phil: I thought the whole game was already, you know, in a way, a lucid dream kind of thing.

00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:49.100

Phil: So I didn't really think that that added or detracted too much from the game or was a major point.

00:16:50.060 --> 00:16:55.440

Phil: But as the game developed, I mean, that could have been quite good in terms of hallucination.

00:16:55.460 --> 00:17:06.820

Phil: In fact, I mean, one of the mechanics that I found was it helped you navigate upwards and see your surrounds a little bit better, so you could try to figure out how to get to the next part.

00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:08.060

Phil: Did they do...

00:17:08.080 --> 00:17:20.540

Tom: Yes, I thought that was actually, on several occasions to me, the hallucinations where you have an outer body experience and can navigate around was actually very useful.

00:17:20.660 --> 00:17:23.540

Tom: So I thought that was nicely worked into the gameplay.

00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.060

Phil: Do you think there was a message or a theme there?

00:17:26.060 --> 00:17:31.800

Phil: You know, I mean about the use of drugs and how it can give you different perspectives and superior perspectives?

00:17:32.300 --> 00:17:33.120

Tom: Undoubtedly.

00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:37.560

Phil: What did you think about the...

00:17:38.120 --> 00:17:42.800

Phil: It's a polluted island, and it's full of workers who are on strike.

00:17:44.120 --> 00:17:45.840

Phil: Those are the people that you're interacting with.

00:17:45.860 --> 00:17:49.480

Phil: There are other people there, fantastical figures as well.

00:17:49.800 --> 00:18:05.000

Tom: There are other taggers and just residents as well, because there is a block of flats, for instance, and there are also people working at restaurants who are not on strike.

00:18:05.840 --> 00:18:13.820

Tom: The strike is specifically about the sludge-collecting industrial activities, I believe.

00:18:14.520 --> 00:18:16.880

Phil: Okay, so for how far into the game?

00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:20.180

Phil: Because I was only about two or two and a half hours into it.

00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:25.120

Phil: How far into the game do you get out of the Sludge Island, or are you always on the Sludge Island?

00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:34.160

Tom: Well, the end goal of the game is to escape the Sludge Island, so you are always on the Sludge Island until you escape, at which point the game ends.

00:18:34.540 --> 00:18:36.940

Phil: Okay, so when do you interact with the restaurant people?

00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.720

Tom: Well, the restaurant people are right near the starting area.

00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.800

Phil: Oh yeah, you're right, there's a fast food outlet.

00:18:43.820 --> 00:18:44.880

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

00:18:45.020 --> 00:18:45.660

Phil: Yeah, okay.

00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:48.500

Tom: And the block of flats is just next to it.

00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:51.460

Phil: Yep, yep, you're right, yep, okay.

00:18:52.260 --> 00:18:55.260

Phil: Alright, well, anything else about this game?

00:18:56.340 --> 00:19:14.180

Tom: Well, the characters, I think, were great little short skits and added a lot of texture to the experience that really made it more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been.

00:19:15.100 --> 00:19:43.640

Tom: And, for instance, just as a simple example of the quality of humour involved here, and I don't mean that sarcastically, one of the characters you interact with is a B-boy and his friend, and his friend challenged the B-boy that he would not be able to spin on his head for a long period of time.

00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:52.680

Tom: And he has been spinning on his head for the past week, and throughout the game, he's just there spinning on his head, which I found quite amusing.

00:19:53.820 --> 00:19:55.820

Phil: Now, is it a permanent world?

00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:58.120

Phil: So if you go back to that area, is he still spinning?

00:19:58.440 --> 00:19:59.140

Tom: Yes, he is.

00:19:59.760 --> 00:20:07.340

Phil: And I've got to say, when I first played this, I was really bummed out because I thought it was a roguelike, because as soon as you die, you go back to where you started.

00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:20.040

Phil: But as you progress through the game, you come across these portals, for want of a better word, and you can always, what do you say, beam yourself to either of those save points basically.

00:20:20.060 --> 00:20:22.440

Tom: Yep, and you keep all your progress as well.

00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:26.540

Phil: Yeah, so it's not a roguelike at all, which is what I was really concerned about.

00:20:27.520 --> 00:20:31.660

Phil: But in terms of its length, how long was it from start to finish?

00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:34.680

Phil: You obviously completed it, so you're going to have a different experience than most.

00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:45.360

Tom: I think to 100% it, it was probably about three or four hours, maybe longer.

00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:54.700

Tom: Epic Games says six hours that I was playing, but that includes, of course, some time with it just left open and so on and so forth.

00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.360

Tom: So let's just say four to five hours to do absolutely everything.

00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:02.380

Phil: And I picked it up when it was free.

00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:06.640

Phil: It's obviously not free now, but certainly worth...

00:21:06.820 --> 00:21:07.780

Tom: I think it still is free.

00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:12.880

Tom: I'm pretty sure that it is, in fact, free for one year after its release.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.700

Phil: Oh, OK.

00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:15.900

Phil: That's great.

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:24.560

Phil: I know I picked up Stranger Things 3, the game, off of Epic when it was up there, and I thought that had been taken down.

00:21:24.580 --> 00:21:29.360

Tom: Yeah, those free games, they come and go.

00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:31.560

Tom: That's part of their standard promotion.

00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:42.000

Tom: Yes, the free sale ends on the 29th of the 5th in 2021 at 1am.

00:21:43.260 --> 00:21:43.980

Phil: So get on it.

00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:45.540

Phil: And it's also available on Switch.

00:21:46.220 --> 00:21:47.880

Phil: Do you want to give it a score?

00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:52.120

Tom: I will have to get the dice, and then I will indeed give it a score.

00:21:52.140 --> 00:22:12.260

Tom: Actually, the last thing I will add, just again as an example of the commitment to aesthetic quality and humour throughout the game, when you are gliding along with the glider, if you fart, you speed up a little bit.

00:22:13.560 --> 00:22:31.220

Tom: And the item that helps you find all the graffiti spots is literally the eyes of a master graffiti person or rather a king, I believe would be the correct terminology.

00:22:32.420 --> 00:22:33.680

Phil: Like a real life one or...?

00:22:34.800 --> 00:22:35.660

Tom: A graffiti king.

00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.820

Phil: I'm going to say Devolver, man, I did not think they were going to be around for long.

00:22:42.840 --> 00:22:49.840

Phil: They've been around for 11 years now, and just looking through their gameography, they've been a force for good, man.

00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.200

Phil: They've done great work, and they've obviously got a very distinctive...

00:22:54.040 --> 00:23:05.280

Phil: They've got an attitude about the kind of games they want to make and back and publish, and I'd say that Sludge Life fits in with the Devolver mode quite well.

00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:09.640

Phil: But yeah, okay, well great, if you want to go get your die.

00:23:09.820 --> 00:23:15.840

Tom: And their PR people several years ago were a pleasure to deal with as well.

00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.100

Phil: You had some sort of controversy with them, didn't you?

00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:24.040

Tom: Was it with Devolver or with the Warhammer people?

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.540

Phil: No, you had a controversy with the Devolver people.

00:23:28.040 --> 00:23:28.700

Tom: What was it?

00:23:29.560 --> 00:23:31.120

Phil: Well, I'll have to look it up.

00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:32.160

Phil: It's somewhere on the site.

00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:34.040

Phil: But anyway, there was controversy.

00:23:34.060 --> 00:23:38.680

Phil: I will tell people about Stranger Things 3 The Game if you want to go get your dice.

00:23:39.280 --> 00:23:40.940

Tom: My dice is here and ready.

00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:43.220

Phil: Oh, well, you've saved our listeners.

00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:45.100

Phil: It's a point and click and it's not too bad.

00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:46.960

Phil: It's certainly good enough to be free.

00:23:47.760 --> 00:23:50.600

Phil: And if you've watched the series, it's true to it.

00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:56.580

Phil: I finally watched the last episode of season 3 that I had abandoned for several months.

00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.520

Phil: And I was happy with the finale.

00:23:58.540 --> 00:24:03.420

Phil: It actually improved it, because season 3 was pretty average.

00:24:04.260 --> 00:24:17.840

Tom: I watched the first season and the first few minutes of the second season, and I gave up then, because I was not a huge fan of the original.

00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:30.340

Tom: But one thing it did have going for it was that it was not just a pastiche, nor was it entirely based on nostalgia.

00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:39.880

Tom: And the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode of the second season seemed to consist entirely of pastiche and nostalgia.

00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.740

Phil: Yeah, yeah, I tell you which doesn't work.

00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:49.820

Phil: Ready Player One finally came on streaming this last week, I think, on Netflix.

00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.700

Phil: And it's a game that I was interested in seeing.

00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.240

Phil: A game.

00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:55.900

Phil: It's a movie I was interested in seeing.

00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.080

Phil: And oh my god, it's terrible.

00:24:58.360 --> 00:24:59.320

Phil: It is so bad.

00:24:59.340 --> 00:25:03.520

Phil: And there were so many times where I almost bought it just to see it, you know.

00:25:05.320 --> 00:25:10.180

Phil: And you talk about just making 80s references for the sake of making 80s references.

00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.960

Phil: It is, it's really very poor.

00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.060

Phil: It's a very poor movie.

00:25:15.080 --> 00:25:16.260

Phil: But you know, check it out.

00:25:16.280 --> 00:25:16.980

Phil: It's worth seeing.

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.860

Tom: The book had a little bit more going for it than that, right?

00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.300

Phil: Yeah, the book was, you know, it's young adult fiction.

00:25:24.520 --> 00:25:32.120

Phil: And you know, it was okay, but again, you'd want to have come from that era to really get into it.

00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:33.760

Phil: And it's a harmless book.

00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:35.760

Phil: It's something you could probably read in a day.

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.560

Phil: And yeah, it's much better.

00:25:41.020 --> 00:25:49.500

Phil: It's popular to trash the book now, but at the time, there's not a lot of books that are set, you know, relating to video games.

00:25:49.560 --> 00:25:51.620

Phil: And in that respect, I thought it was good.

00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:58.240

Phil: Okay, so Sludge Life, I didn't finish it, so I'm not going to give it a score.

00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.420

Tom: Well, you said a moment ago you gave it a 7 out of 10.

00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:05.100

Phil: A 7.3, and that's because I was reading the Metacritic description of it.

00:26:06.060 --> 00:26:07.840

Phil: Which is also who gave it a...

00:26:07.860 --> 00:26:08.920

Phil: They gave it a 73.

00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:11.340

Phil: That's the aggregate score from all the Metacritics.

00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:14.920

Tom: Why don't you rate the little blurb that it has?

00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.700

Phil: I think the blurb, I'd give a 8 out of 10.

00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.800

Tom: I agree completely.

00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:30.220

Tom: And I actually think this, to me, has taken the crown of getting up as the best graffiti game.

00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:42.300

Tom: And I would also argue that the soundtrack is better in the sense that it is a more cohesive whole.

00:26:42.860 --> 00:26:46.760

Tom: But there are certainly some great songs on getting up as well.

00:26:47.280 --> 00:26:49.640

Tom: Basically every song is at least a very good song.

00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.520

Tom: But here is the dice roll that we've all been waiting for.

00:26:55.560 --> 00:27:03.540

Tom: And Sludge Life, the best graffiti game, receives a 3 out of 10.

00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:05.280

Phil: Oh, man.

00:27:05.300 --> 00:27:07.800

Phil: That die is unkind.

00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:09.120

Phil: Unkind.

00:27:09.140 --> 00:27:10.520

Phil: So what other graffiti games you got?

00:27:10.540 --> 00:27:13.020

Phil: You got Jet Set Radio, Jet Grind Radio, rather.

00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:13.740

Phil: Same thing.

00:27:14.760 --> 00:27:18.000

Phil: I'd say Grand Theft Auto, San Andreas.

00:27:19.520 --> 00:27:19.980

Tom: Did that...

00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:22.600

Tom: Yeah, that did have a small graffiti mechanic.

00:27:24.980 --> 00:27:26.700

Phil: It was a great, great one.

00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:33.200

Phil: Again, it didn't get very complicated, but it was one of the collectibles in the game if you went around tagging at certain places.

00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:39.400

Phil: So I'd say my favorite game would probably be Getting Up.

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:41.280

Phil: Contents Under Pressure.

00:27:41.300 --> 00:27:41.820

Phil: Mega Cup.

00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:42.860

Phil: That's what we called it.

00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:44.940

Phil: What was it called Mega Cup for?

00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:46.880

Phil: Oh, Mark Echoes Getting Up.

00:27:47.080 --> 00:27:48.180

Phil: Contents Under Pressure.

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.640

Phil: Yeah.

00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:50.120

Phil: Alright, very good.

00:27:52.300 --> 00:27:58.220

Phil: Now, we sort of finalized Genova Chen's Sky game with a review a couple of episodes ago.

00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:01.080

Phil: I'm still waiting for it to come out for Switch.

00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:03.460

Phil: I'm told that it will come out in summer.

00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:09.020

Phil: Which, for a global release, is a really useless descriptor as to when that game is going to come out.

00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.460

Phil: Because I presume that means...

00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:18.520

Tom: Given that it took nearly a year for the Android version to come out, I would not be holding my breath.

00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.080

Phil: Well, when it comes out, I'm hoping to get a physical copy of it.

00:28:24.100 --> 00:28:25.800

Phil: Surely there will be a physical copy of it.

00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:26.500

Phil: I really hope.

00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:29.040

Phil: I hope it's not one of those limited run things.

00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:31.820

Phil: But anyway, I'm looking forward to it based on your hype.

00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:37.280

Phil: But there's a new chapter or new episode or they've done something, a new drop.

00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:43.260

Tom: Yep, a new season is releasing tomorrow at the time of recording.

00:28:43.280 --> 00:28:46.800

Phil: And this is Sky, Children of Light, available right now.

00:28:46.820 --> 00:28:50.240

Phil: It's only available on the mobile platforms, right?

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:54.960

Tom: Correct, it is on the App Store and Android, I believe.

00:28:55.940 --> 00:29:04.020

Tom: And the latest season is the season of Sanctuary, which I played in the beta.

00:29:05.140 --> 00:29:30.200

Tom: And I think we talked about the previous season, and I've already forgotten what it was called, but that was probably the best season since the original in terms of its narrative, and probably the best season in terms of its gameplay since the prior season, which also added a new area.

00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:39.940

Tom: This season also adds a new area, the theme as far as the story is concerned, and also what the outfits look like.

00:29:40.300 --> 00:29:54.280

Tom: I'm not sure they really fit the style of Sky all that much, which is very much in the vein of Journey, with a few more serious moments.

00:29:54.300 --> 00:29:57.660

Tom: There's certainly more humour in Sky than there is Journey.

00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:10.720

Tom: But here, basically, the story is about, as far as one can tell, a group of former spirits on holiday, and it's much more light-hearted.

00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:15.000

Tom: And the items are much more real world.

00:30:15.020 --> 00:30:25.200

Tom: There are sunglasses, for example, and what is like a sort of Jetsons-style science fiction outfit.

00:30:25.220 --> 00:30:31.220

Tom: So that isn't real life, but that is also not necessarily in line with the general aesthetic of Sky.

00:30:31.540 --> 00:30:37.020

Tom: But the area itself is the most ambitious yet.

00:30:37.120 --> 00:30:39.980

Tom: It is basically, it's also the biggest.

00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:53.180

Tom: It is a massive tropical island surrounded by a few small archipelagos that you can fly to, as well as some floating islands in the air.

00:30:53.520 --> 00:31:21.720

Tom: So while the narrative aspects to it, and also the items that you get are a bit disappointing compared to prior seasons, the actual area is really big and makes for some interesting flying, because you have to get between really big distances between islands in the sky and archipelagos and the main island.

00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:34.680

Tom: So for people who have been playing for a while, it is more interesting than most of the new areas, and there's also more to do on the way between areas as well.

00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:45.160

Tom: And the main island has a lot of plants to burn and big candles, which I hope will carry over to the main season.

00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:59.900

Tom: They're currently in the version of the island that is in the main game that a few people have been able to get to, but whether when it is properly released, they will still be there, will of course not be confirmed until it is actually released.

00:32:00.280 --> 00:32:13.600

Tom: So to recap in terms of the narrative and items, it's a bit disappointing, but as an area to explore, it is probably the best additional area to the game yet.

00:32:14.520 --> 00:32:20.700

Phil: And certainly the expectation would be that they're going to populate it with more staff.

00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:21.920

Tom: What do you mean?

00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:24.020

Phil: I mean, they've built this great area.

00:32:24.040 --> 00:32:25.880

Phil: You're saying that it's pretty sparse.

00:32:26.060 --> 00:32:26.520

Tom: No, no, no.

00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:40.700

Tom: I said the area itself has a lot in it and is an interesting area to explore, looking for light and also doing the spirits' stories and collecting their memory fragments.

00:32:41.060 --> 00:32:52.380

Tom: But in terms of the spirits' actual stories, as a story, not as a thing to do, it is a bit disappointing compared to prior seasons.

00:32:53.040 --> 00:32:59.160

Tom: And it doesn't fit necessarily the aesthetic and tone of Sky all that well.

00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:12.960

Phil: Do you think maybe they had a different team, different team members or a different team working on this expansion, so to speak, while, you know, other people are working on, you know, maybe getting the game to different platforms and all that sort of thing?

00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:13.620

Tom: They may well have.

00:33:13.840 --> 00:33:14.180

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:33:15.460 --> 00:33:27.220

Phil: But I'm hopeful that this might be in preparation for when they release it on the Switch, and it's kind of like, you know, having as much content as possible right from the start.

00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:37.820

Phil: Do you think if, having said that, do you think if they had all of this extra content that they've been adding and adding and adding right from the start that would necessarily have been a better game?

00:33:38.780 --> 00:33:48.100

Phil: Or does the game benefit from having a long tail where you're slowly, you know, getting these new things to interact with to keep you interested in the game?

00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:54.800

Tom: I think it definitely benefits from having these as additions as you're going along.

00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:11.300

Tom: And I don't think it is necessarily a big issue for new players because the areas that they add they remain there and the only thing you miss out on is some of the items.

00:34:11.500 --> 00:34:19.620

Tom: And the main game itself is a four or five hour experience to do everything in.

00:34:20.140 --> 00:34:37.620

Tom: So I think if they started out with this, it would have been I think a bit of a slog to get through and you would have less of a focus on experiencing the main game which still has the best stories and that sort of thing.

00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:44.080

Tom: So I think it's good that one, if you've been playing for a long time, they're giving you new stuff to do.

00:34:44.680 --> 00:34:54.740

Tom: And two, I think it's good that they're not necessarily taking away from the main narrative for new players.

00:34:55.880 --> 00:35:12.160

Tom: And it allows them to strike a pretty good balance between an MMORPG structure and a more narrative focused game which is one of the unique achievements of Sky.

00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.260

Phil: Okay, so is that all you have to say about Sky, Children of Light?

00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.820

Phil: What was the name of the new expansion?

00:35:19.300 --> 00:35:21.660

Tom: Season of Sanctuary, I believe.

00:35:21.720 --> 00:35:22.780

Phil: Season of Sanctuary.

00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:27.540

Phil: And do they communicate much about how often they come out with these?

00:35:27.560 --> 00:35:32.720

Phil: Is it a seasonal type thing, or is it really just an out of the blue, here you go?

00:35:33.040 --> 00:35:41.120

Tom: Well, they usually have a bit of hyping up for it, and it also gets into the beta before it gets into the main game.

00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:50.460

Tom: But the actual distance between them and also how long they last, there is usually not that much consistency.

00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:54.680

Tom: So the last season, for instance, I think, lasted two months.

00:35:54.700 --> 00:35:57.320

Tom: Some of the seasons have only been about 20 days.

00:35:59.660 --> 00:36:03.920

Tom: And I think it's been about a month or so since the last season ended.

00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:05.140

Phil: Wow, okay.

00:36:05.160 --> 00:36:05.920

Phil: So it's pretty quick.

00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:10.140

Phil: Their obviously engagement is a massive thing with these kinds of games.

00:36:10.140 --> 00:36:14.820

Phil: So they've got to keep, you know, keep you interested in dropping new things.

00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:18.360

Tom: I have technically finished it.

00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:23.580

Tom: So this is a rating, another dice roll for the beta.

00:36:24.220 --> 00:36:25.420

Phil: All right, let's see.

00:36:25.780 --> 00:36:26.960

Tom: For the record, it's not a rating.

00:36:27.020 --> 00:36:29.640

Tom: It's not a rating of the released version, but the beta version.

00:36:32.600 --> 00:36:33.880

Tom: A 7 out of 10.

00:36:35.060 --> 00:36:41.040

Tom: So significantly better than Sludge Life, the best graffiti game ever.

00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:49.280

Phil: I'll tell you what isn't the best graffiti game ever, and that is a game we played called Death and Taxes.

00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:52.820

Phil: This is another work simulator on the PC.

00:36:54.860 --> 00:37:01.860

Phil: It has a demo that really doesn't do the game much of a benefit, I thought.

00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:04.240

Phil: I thought the demo for it was actually quite...

00:37:06.160 --> 00:37:14.520

Phil: Well, a good demo to me gives you an idea as to most aspects of the game which should leave you wanting for more.

00:37:14.860 --> 00:37:18.840

Phil: But in this demo, they gave you a very limited range of things that you could do.

00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:30.660

Phil: And this game was available as a part of the itch.io offering of 14, 1600 games or whatever else.

00:37:30.660 --> 00:37:32.340

Phil: But I played it on Steam.

00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:33.860

Phil: You played it on Steam also?

00:37:34.660 --> 00:37:35.360

Tom: Yes, I did.

00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:48.260

Phil: And it's a narrative-based game where basically you turn up at an office and your job is to basically select who lives and who dies.

00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:51.260

Phil: You work for Fate, is that right?

00:37:51.620 --> 00:37:52.480

Tom: That is correct.

00:37:53.020 --> 00:37:54.340

Phil: You don't work for the Grim Reaper?

00:37:54.660 --> 00:37:57.420

Tom: No, you are a Grim Reaper.

00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:05.460

Tom: One of many working in Fate's office where who lives and dies is decided by Grim Reapers.

00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:13.260

Phil: And it's a game, I don't know if they've done many more of them, by a company called Placeholder Gameworks.

00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:15.240

Phil: This seems to be their only game.

00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:17.160

Tom: It may well be.

00:38:17.240 --> 00:38:18.440

Tom: I think it is, in fact.

00:38:19.180 --> 00:38:24.620

Phil: And for the most part, the game is received quite positively by those that played it.

00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:28.080

Phil: I had heard a couple of different podcasters talking about it.

00:38:29.120 --> 00:38:33.840

Phil: So it mirrors, the actual playing of it mirrors Paper's Please quite closely.

00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:35.360

Phil: You sit down at a desk.

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.540

Phil: There's things you can put on your desk.

00:38:38.540 --> 00:38:42.080

Phil: Your boss, Fate, will give you some rules.

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:47.200

Phil: So some days he might just say today you've got to kill three people.

00:38:48.640 --> 00:38:53.040

Tom: And the rules also get more, slightly more complex, but still very simple.

00:38:53.060 --> 00:38:59.240

Tom: So you might have to kill people who work in the grocery industry, for instance.

00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:04.080

Tom: So you then have to read through their profile and look for what their job is.

00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.400

Tom: Or it might be, you have to kill people that are related to it.

00:39:07.420 --> 00:39:11.800

Tom: So you then have to look at people that have corollary jobs and so forth.

00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:18.180

Tom: So, while it is very simple, it does get slightly more complex as it goes along.

00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:23.880

Phil: And yes, so in this very simple case, you might get six portfolios put in front of you.

00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:32.940

Phil: And you have to decide, okay, well, you've been told, spare anyone who works in, is related to the real estate industry today.

00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:42.120

Phil: So you've got to really read into them a little bit because it might, the details, it won't just say this person works in real estate or this person's a realtor.

00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:47.120

Phil: Sometimes you have to read into the details and that sort of thing.

00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:54.340

Phil: So someone who might be a lawyer as his header, but then when you read it, it says something like he specializes in property law or something like that.

00:39:54.600 --> 00:39:56.800

Phil: Now that's a completely made up scenario.

00:39:58.300 --> 00:40:16.800

Phil: And so basically, you take the papers and you put all the people you're going to spare over there, you put all the people you're going to kill over there, and at the end of the day, you go up to the top floor to see Fate, where Fate will evaluate your work on the basis of how well you follow the instructions or not.

00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:20.480

Phil: And then you get currency.

00:40:20.500 --> 00:40:24.160

Phil: So you get paid for your day's work.

00:40:24.600 --> 00:40:30.960

Phil: If you accumulate enough money in the basement, there's a dealer down there where you can buy various things.

00:40:31.660 --> 00:40:32.720

Tom: A pirate merchant.

00:40:33.260 --> 00:40:36.680

Phil: Yes, yes, and you can buy various things.

00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:42.000

Phil: Some of them are just goo guys for your desk or from your home.

00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:46.820

Phil: You live in a small room somewhere between the boss and the office.

00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:57.320

Tom: Most of the items are just decorative, but a few of them actually have a function in your day-to-day activities.

00:40:58.780 --> 00:41:05.340

Tom: So some of them, for instance, might reveal information about what you've done and that sort of thing.

00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:16.600

Tom: One of the items as well, for instance, allows you to erase your stamp so that you can change your mind on whether someone should live or die.

00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.720

Phil: Yep, and then what about the items that you can use in your home?

00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.380

Phil: Could you elaborate on some of those?

00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:27.460

Tom: Were there any items that you could use in your home other than outfits in the mirror?

00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:28.840

Phil: That's about it, yeah.

00:41:32.220 --> 00:41:34.180

Phil: And they didn't really have any impact, did they?

00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:54.580

Tom: I was really disappointed because we should say at the end of each day, you talk to Fate, who like a Bond villain has a pet cat, and this will be a minor spoiler, but at some point, Fate isn't there, and so your interview, your daily interview, takes place with the cat.

00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:06.480

Tom: And I had the cat outfit, and I was hoping that this would allow me to understand what the cat was saying, but it didn't, so that was tremendously disappointing.

00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.780

Tom: So essentially, the outfits are indeed completely useless.

00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:16.980

Phil: I've got to say, I was pretty deep into the game, and I like being a gamer, right?

00:42:17.060 --> 00:42:22.140

Phil: If the game gives me rules and something to do, that's what I'm going to try and do.

00:42:22.600 --> 00:42:25.340

Phil: So, you know, surprise, surprise, right?

00:42:26.080 --> 00:42:44.660

Phil: So like when I was playing Papers, Please, you know, the typical example, which is another work simulator, the seminal work simulator of the decade by Lucas Pope, there's this, you know, you're basically letting people, you can decide who comes over the border and who doesn't.

00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:54.380

Phil: And, you know, there's a husband, and he's got all of his paperwork, and it's perfect, but then he tries to bribe you so that you'll let his wife through whose paperwork is forged.

00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:03.760

Phil: And so, of course, you know, when I'm playing a game, I'm doing it in the voice of the character that I'm playing, so, you know, in that instance, it was easy for me.

00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:08.700

Phil: Well, my job is to check paper, and that's about it, and if the papers are wrong, I'm not letting the person in.

00:43:09.160 --> 00:43:11.980

Phil: And so that's how I played Death and Taxes as well.

00:43:12.820 --> 00:43:22.440

Phil: I made sure that I stuck to it, and, you know, they'll do all the stupid stuff, like put sob stories in, or, you know, this person's a really great person, look at all the charity work they do.

00:43:22.460 --> 00:43:28.320

Phil: And I was like, well, that's fine, but they don't work in real estate, so I'm not sparing them, you know?

00:43:28.340 --> 00:43:34.720

Phil: And there was only a few times where I deviated between, you know, who to kill and who not to kill.

00:43:36.580 --> 00:43:48.940

Phil: But when you go up to talk to Fate, he is genuinely disinterested, and it doesn't seem to really matter whether you pay attention to the rules or not at a certain point, or perhaps ever in the game.

00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:53.780

Tom: I think what you do has an effect on what ending you get.

00:43:54.160 --> 00:43:56.960

Phil: Yes, yeah, and there are several endings you can unlock.

00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:07.000

Phil: But like, and then, you know, they do throw some things in there, like, you know, like there was only a couple of times where I killed people because of their occupations.

00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:16.960

Phil: So there was a climate change researcher, and I'm just like, the world doesn't need any more climate change researchers, and what a useless job, you know?

00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:27.420

Phil: If climate change is real, then you researching it isn't going to change anything, and if it's not real, then you're just a waste of space, so I'm killing you, you know?

00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:37.020

Phil: But ultimately, I was really kind of disappointed that none of it really kind of mattered, and obviously that's going to be, you know, there's different endings in everything.

00:44:38.240 --> 00:44:52.880

Phil: But a part of doing these kind of work simulators is if you're doing a good job, you know, there should be some sort of rewards other than going down to the basement talking to a pirate about a new kind of desk lamp or a snow globe.

00:44:54.140 --> 00:45:03.760

Phil: And I really think that ultimately, the game on its own doesn't really warrant replays to go through all of those endings.

00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:05.860

Phil: At least not for me.

00:45:06.580 --> 00:45:18.520

Tom: Well, I certainly won't be replaying it, but I don't really agree that what you were doing didn't make any difference to how the story unfolded and how it ended.

00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:30.860

Tom: What you maybe mean is that there, other than getting fired, which I think is indeed possible, there isn't a fail state, whereas in Papers, Please, there were multiple ones.

00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:31.660

Tom: Is that what you mean?

00:45:32.560 --> 00:45:33.400

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:45:33.640 --> 00:45:36.180

Phil: I mean, you're going to get to the end in this game regardless.

00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:44.300

Tom: Yeah, it's very difficult to be fired.

00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:46.880

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:53.500

Phil: In fact, I didn't even know that was an option, but that may be because I was such a rule follower, you know, for the first two-thirds of the game.

00:45:54.260 --> 00:46:10.200

Phil: I've got to say, though, you know, killing the climate change researcher has got the game into some trouble, because you sent me the most profoundly hilarious link to a thread, which must have been on the Steam community.

00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:11.280

Tom: It was, indeed.

00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:22.500

Phil: Between the developer and people who had an issue with the kinds of people that you can kill in this game, and they just assumed that the developers were some insane right-wing people with a political agenda.

00:46:22.520 --> 00:46:26.600

Tom: No, no, no, no, they assumed they were insane left-wing people with a political agenda.

00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:27.500

Phil: Oh, okay.

00:46:27.520 --> 00:46:28.420

Phil: See, I just don't...

00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:32.580

Phil: I don't see much of a distinction anymore, but...

00:46:33.380 --> 00:46:37.600

Phil: and it was hilarious, genuinely hilarious.

00:46:38.640 --> 00:46:42.640

Phil: But, I mean, what was the developer's response?

00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:44.000

Phil: Basically, that other people...

00:46:44.020 --> 00:46:46.120

Phil: he threw someone else under the bus, didn't he?

00:46:46.620 --> 00:46:49.760

Phil: So there was a lot of people had to write those job descriptions.

00:46:49.780 --> 00:46:50.800

Phil: You know, it wasn't just me.

00:46:51.080 --> 00:47:01.860

Tom: I think his response, I can't remember what it was, but it was perfectly reasoned and fair, and the person they were responding to even took it amiably.

00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.240

Phil: Yes, yes.

00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:06.180

Tom: So they responded very well indeed.

00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:22.400

Tom: I think the issue was that essentially killing off certain sorts of people had the logical outcome you would expect, and this was taken to be political bias.

00:47:23.720 --> 00:47:28.440

Phil: Okay, well, look, I think that it's a good first game from that team.

00:47:29.380 --> 00:47:34.060

Phil: They copied Papers, Please, but it wasn't an exact copy.

00:47:34.080 --> 00:47:40.660

Phil: Like, there were elements of it, but there was enough individual, you know, of their own imprint on this game.

00:47:40.940 --> 00:47:50.600

Phil: I think it was just too shallow, ultimately, in terms of the mechanics, and it just didn't click with me.

00:47:52.080 --> 00:48:00.820

Phil: And I know that a big part of it has some ridiculous number of endings, something like 20 different endings, and I just don't know why you would go back and want to see them.

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:09.680

Phil: The game just wasn't compelling enough, because ultimately, it's you, Fate, and his cat, and the pirate, and the files.

00:48:09.940 --> 00:48:13.480

Phil: And as with Papers, Please, there was some humanity there.

00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:19.360

Phil: It wasn't just the pieces of paper, you know, you actually had to look at the people in addition to their paperwork.

00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:22.220

Phil: So, you know, there was very many different elements there.

00:48:23.180 --> 00:48:26.140

Tom: I would take the complete reverse analysis here.

00:48:26.140 --> 00:48:35.700

Tom: I think the major flaw in the game was not in terms of the characters or narrative, but was in the gameplay itself.

00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:42.340

Tom: And I don't think it really did a good job of copying Papers, Please as well.

00:48:42.600 --> 00:48:53.840

Tom: Papers, Please, other than the extremely tactile, aesthetic quality to the gameplay, in terms of what you were doing, it was significantly more complex.

00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:58.600

Tom: There were many more elements to it, and you had to pay a lot more attention as well.

00:48:58.620 --> 00:49:05.360

Tom: I think that is where the great superiority of Papers, Please comes from.

00:49:06.620 --> 00:49:14.680

Tom: The narrative in Papers, Please is certainly alright too, but I don't think it is really that much better than Death and Taxes.

00:49:14.680 --> 00:49:26.040

Tom: It's just a completely different tone, but the magic of Papers, Please comes from the minute-to-minute gameplay, which is not what is there in Death and Taxes.

00:49:26.060 --> 00:49:35.600

Tom: And I don't think that a fail state would really make a big difference because of the inherent shallowness of the mechanics in the first place.

00:49:37.060 --> 00:49:39.800

Tom: But I ended up enjoying it nevertheless.

00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:44.260

Tom: I think we should move into spoiler territory here.

00:49:45.740 --> 00:49:47.840

Tom: Because I do wonder what...

00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:57.120

Tom: We also should add the basic structure is, before we move into spoilers in terms of the story, is your discussions with fate as you're going along.

00:49:57.540 --> 00:50:26.700

Tom: And if you take it as just an interaction between the character of fate and his own existential crisis, as well as a character that appears in your mirror, who is essentially fomenting a rebellion against fate, I think the story is amusing enough to make the game worth playing, rather than necessarily making the gameplay more complex, even though it is a major flaw.

00:50:26.700 --> 00:50:46.740

Tom: One thing I think that would have made the minute-to-minute gameplay more interesting without having to come up with a better gameplay design would have been more interesting ongoing storylines within the character profiles themselves, because there were a couple of instances of this.

00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:58.460

Tom: For instance, there was a pair of green shoes going around that had an effect on all the people who found it that you could react to, which was very amusing.

00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:00.680

Tom: I wish there had been more things like that.

00:51:00.700 --> 00:51:10.700

Tom: I think that would have made the minute-to-minute experience of it much more enjoyable as you're waiting to find out what's happening next with Fate and his existential crisis.

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:13.900

Phil: Yeah, I agree with that.

00:51:14.060 --> 00:51:16.300

Phil: I've just been talking about that, though.

00:51:16.340 --> 00:51:25.720

Phil: I was kind of hoping that there would be some coworkers or other grim reapers or maybe in your room where you live.

00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:29.040

Tom: For instance, there was a bar visible and you could never visit it.

00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:34.020

Phil: That's exactly right, which is just painfully tantalising.

00:51:34.420 --> 00:51:36.260

Phil: So a bar would have been great.

00:51:37.180 --> 00:51:45.220

Phil: If they wanted to make it more simple, they could have put a laptop in your room and a grim reaper net was the only thing that you could access.

00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:51.260

Phil: Basically a social network thing for fellow grim reapers or a chat room or something like that.

00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:56.120

Phil: I think that there could have been something else there.

00:51:57.640 --> 00:51:58.160

Tom: Definitely.

00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:00.800

Tom: So let's move into spoilers.

00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:01.540

Phil: Yes.

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:04.780

Tom: So what ending did you get?

00:52:07.420 --> 00:52:10.980

Phil: Basically the end of the world and it came down to picking between two people.

00:52:12.060 --> 00:52:13.900

Tom: What was the state of the world?

00:52:14.600 --> 00:52:15.180

Phil: Destroyed.

00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:22.900

Tom: Because another complaint on the forum was someone got a destroyed world but thought they shouldn't have.

00:52:23.420 --> 00:52:27.360

Tom: My state of the world, of course, was essentially a utopia.

00:52:27.620 --> 00:52:28.080

Phil: Wow.

00:52:30.220 --> 00:52:31.680

Phil: Because I didn't think there was...

00:52:32.200 --> 00:52:34.440

Phil: See, for me, I was somewhat of a nihilist.

00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:40.940

Phil: I just figured that nothing I did had an impact on the outcome of the world.

00:52:41.580 --> 00:52:51.960

Tom: See, I think perhaps one of the issues with your experience with the game was your own inherent nihilism and hatred of humanity and apathy.

00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:55.640

Phil: Yes, possibly.

00:52:55.660 --> 00:53:01.860

Tom: So perhaps it's to the game's credit that it allowed you to express this and destroy the world.

00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:08.340

Phil: Because my whole point going into the game was I don't really care who lives and dies, and I don't really care.

00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:15.040

Phil: Is there a way where you could pick the kind of people, the researchers, or the scientists?

00:53:15.080 --> 00:53:27.780

Phil: I guess there was, because the profiles would come in front of you and it would be like, this 36-year-old woman is working on a solution to fix the problems in the world, and fate had told me to kill anyone with a science background that day, so I killed them all.

00:53:29.680 --> 00:53:33.380

Phil: So that's probably why the world ended up being destroyed.

00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:37.060

Phil: So I just figured that killing, it didn't matter who I killed and who I didn't kill.

00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:46.160

Tom: So I think that's greatly to the game's credit, particularly given the existential crisis of fate and his growing apathy.

00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:57.880

Phil: Okay, so now that's where it could have been turned around, or perhaps in another realm it is, because if I was doing exactly what fate was saying, now it was pretty clear that fate had lost interest in it.

00:53:57.900 --> 00:54:00.980

Phil: He was trying to write a book and doing all this other stuff and goes...

00:54:01.340 --> 00:54:03.780

Tom: And just let me say this before I forget it.

00:54:04.120 --> 00:54:28.940

Tom: At the end, I killed fate, and this was taken as being a morally bad thing, but I would just like to point out that once you usurp the highest status individual above you, it is very important as a status display to, if not kill that person, at least kill their followers and some other people surrounding you.

00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:39.400

Tom: So from a pragmatic viewpoint, I did the right thing, but my main motivation here was actually as euthanasia, because this guy...

00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:40.320

Phil: Mercy Killing...

00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:40.320

Tom: .

00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:51.800

Tom: was spent fucking several months pontificating about writing a novel and how he's going to leave his job to get his dream of writing a novel.

00:54:52.140 --> 00:54:53.300

Tom: Now, let's be honest.

00:54:53.560 --> 00:55:14.760

Tom: If someone is talking endlessly about writing a novel and that they're going to leave their job and write a novel, when they leave their job, they're never going to write a novel and just end up even more depressed and despairing than they were before, when they were failing to write their novel with an excuse, when now they're not writing their novel without an excuse.

00:55:15.100 --> 00:55:15.440

Phil: So...

00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:17.180

Phil: You did the right thing.

00:55:17.820 --> 00:55:20.740

Tom: Not only the pragmatic thing, but the morally correct thing.

00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:21.680

Phil: Compassionate thing.

00:55:23.580 --> 00:55:26.920

Phil: What I would have liked then, just a little bit of steering from the game.

00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:35.480

Phil: Like if I went up and talked to Fay, it would have been good for him to say, hey, you know, man, you're really following these rules here pretty tightly.

00:55:35.500 --> 00:55:38.140

Phil: Have you even noticed what's going on in the outside world?

00:55:39.340 --> 00:55:54.940

Phil: And it's important, a game mechanic is important to note, is that at the start of every day, you have a Twitter feed on your mobile phone or whatever it is that basically tells you the repercussions of what had happened from you killing the people and sparing the people from the day before.

00:55:55.680 --> 00:56:03.080

Phil: So I guess in a way, the game is telling you, hey, what you're doing is actually having an impact.

00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:11.380

Phil: But I found that Twitter feed thing to be so dumb that I just really just clicked through it and didn't even read it after a while.

00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:15.700

Phil: And I guess this is the whole nihilism and apathy thing coming through again.

00:56:17.460 --> 00:56:22.140

Tom: This discussion has actually made me appreciate the game a lot more than I did.

00:56:22.160 --> 00:56:23.360

Phil: Yeah, me too.

00:56:23.380 --> 00:56:24.480

Phil: I didn't know that...

00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:32.320

Phil: Actually, you know, I don't know if I could play the whole bloody thing again, but I probably could if I didn't have 1600 other games to play right now.

00:56:34.160 --> 00:56:38.060

Phil: But yeah, I think it probably is worth it.

00:56:38.080 --> 00:56:38.900

Phil: I just wish there was...

00:56:40.020 --> 00:56:45.940

Phil: It's, you know, I'm saying, I wish there was more, but I only played one of the endings and there's 19 other endings, so I just have no interest in playing them.

00:56:46.240 --> 00:56:53.580

Phil: So it must be horrible for the developer to have to hear me go through this, and I certainly know what he'd do with me if he saw my portfolio.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.020

Phil: Podcaster, huh?

00:56:56.780 --> 00:56:58.180

Phil: Neolus Podcaster.

00:56:59.660 --> 00:57:03.920

Tom: I killed every single content creator I came across.

00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:05.100

Phil: Oh, good move.

00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:12.040

Tom: So we both had our vices, but my vice was to the betterment of humanity.

00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:26.940

Phil: Hey, look, when I was given the choice where it said you've got to kill four people, two of them have to be in the food industry, I did go through the other profiles, and if there were two scumbags, I would kill them and spare the good people.

00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:31.820

Phil: So it's not just I went, okay, I've killed the two people in food industry, and I'll just kill two other people.

00:57:32.960 --> 00:58:02.380

Tom: We should add as well, and I think this is also to the game's emblematic of the quality that is hidden beneath the surface at times, is one thing I think it managed to strike a good balance between, and there were a lot of people reviewing it or posting that didn't agree with this, but that's not true to my experience, and with my discussion with you, and I think there's further evidence this was the case.

00:58:02.680 --> 00:58:31.840

Tom: I think it's managed to present things at a simplistic level where killing certain people and certain people surviving would logically result in what you would expect it to, as well as throwing in a few wrinkles of unexpected things so that you did have to pay attention to the people you were killing and second guess what you were doing as well.

00:58:33.340 --> 00:58:35.120

Tom: And I suggest that...

00:58:35.200 --> 00:58:46.860

Tom: Because I was unsure whether this was the case or not, but given my utopian world and your apocalypse, that would suggest that this was actually the case.

00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:49.560

Phil: That's right, yeah.

00:58:49.580 --> 00:58:53.300

Phil: And in fact, there's a lot more to it than obviously what I had thought.

00:58:56.080 --> 00:58:57.760

Phil: So, any other spoilers before we...

00:58:58.300 --> 00:59:00.800

Tom: No, I think we're ready to give it a score.

00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.940

Phil: Okay, well again, the game is Death and Taxes.

00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:07.340

Phil: It's available on PC, on Steam, or itch.io, wherever you want to get it.

00:59:08.240 --> 00:59:09.060

Phil: Not a cheap game.

00:59:10.080 --> 00:59:14.440

Phil: I got it fairly affordably, I believe, but it's currently $18.50 AUD.

00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:19.700

Tom: It was tremendously cheap in the God bundle, though.

00:59:19.720 --> 00:59:20.260

Phil: Yes, it was.

00:59:22.120 --> 00:59:32.680

Phil: So it's basically $20 right now on Steam, but I think they've got a sale coming up, or 33% off or something, and it's developed and published by Placeholder Gameworks.

00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:48.960

Phil: I've got to say, in its appearance, it looks like a Flash game, which is a dated reference, but I think that didn't help it as well, because a certain type of person like myself looks at that kind of graphics.

00:59:49.580 --> 00:59:57.840

Phil: But it had a woodcut element to it that kind of obviously elevated it to a more pleasing appearance.

00:59:58.080 --> 01:00:04.480

Phil: But I was going to give this game a 6, but now I feel like that would be unfair.

01:00:05.100 --> 01:00:16.220

Phil: I think the game's obviously a lot more complex than I thought, so I do want to probably withhold, refrain from giving it a score and probably see what the replay experience is like.

01:00:16.300 --> 01:00:22.420

Phil: Hopefully they've streamlined it so that it doesn't take as long as the original game, which I think took about 6 or 7 hours.

01:00:23.520 --> 01:00:25.740

Tom: I think it took me maybe half that.

01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:27.300

Phil: I could be mistaken.

01:00:27.560 --> 01:00:30.880

Tom: I don't think it was that long at all.

01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.400

Phil: You want to get old 6ie out?

01:00:32.680 --> 01:00:37.560

Tom: Yeah, it's a die 10, but I'm ready to give it a score.

01:00:40.040 --> 01:00:42.000

Tom: It gets an 8 out of 10.

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.400

Phil: Wow, that's a pretty good score.

01:00:45.380 --> 01:00:48.020

Tom: That's the highest score today so far.

01:00:48.640 --> 01:00:52.600

Phil: That's actually on par with how Steam users rated it.

01:00:53.080 --> 01:00:55.760

Phil: Most people are giving it the 8 out of 10.

01:00:56.200 --> 01:01:00.200

Tom: When I played the demo, I was flabbergasted by the positive reaction.

01:01:01.340 --> 01:01:02.440

Phil: Yeah, the demo did not.

01:01:02.500 --> 01:01:04.260

Phil: You agree with me the demo didn't sell a game.

01:01:04.600 --> 01:01:06.580

Tom: You were much higher on the demo than me.

01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:15.200

Tom: When I played the demo, my reaction was, and you went on to play the main game, I believe I said to you, I'm not going to play this.

01:01:15.240 --> 01:01:16.100

Phil: Yes, you did.

01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:16.780

Phil: You did.

01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:18.080

Phil: And now you've given it an 8.

01:01:18.260 --> 01:01:18.820

Phil: That's incredible.

01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:19.260

Tom: Correct.

01:01:20.660 --> 01:01:21.580

Tom: What a turnaround.

01:01:21.940 --> 01:01:33.020

Phil: If you want to talk about another work simulator, I've got to an ending of Beat Cop, which is kind of a controversial game, I imagine, right now.

01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:35.020

Phil: Well...

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:46.800

Tom: We have to go there, because I saw today, Libertarians are one of our hobbies, one of my hobbies that gets into the podcast.

01:01:47.360 --> 01:02:14.280

Tom: And I saw one of the modern geniuses of political coverage today in the internet sphere, who I won't name, who was tremendously confused and outraged that the Libertarian Party, and I was actually shocked as well that the Libertarian Party was living up to some of its Libertarian values, had endorsed the Black Lives Matter movement.

01:02:14.300 --> 01:02:24.540

Tom: Because for some reason, this commentator thought that the Libertarian Party should be pro-police for some reason.

01:02:25.940 --> 01:02:26.860

Tom: I'm not sure why.

01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:31.660

Phil: Well, I think if anyone wanted to defund the police, it would be a Libertarian, wouldn't it?

01:02:32.080 --> 01:02:32.680

Tom: Exactly.

01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:37.240

Phil: I mean, you want freedom, and you don't want to pay for anything, so defund the police.

01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:41.280

Phil: I would assume that Libertarians would be all about that, not law and order.

01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:45.120

Phil: But apparently not.

01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:47.120

Phil: They wouldn't want justice.

01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:48.940

Phil: Libertarians wouldn't want justice.

01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.820

Phil: They'd want freedom.

01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:53.420

Phil: So, I've got to say...

01:02:53.820 --> 01:03:01.620

Phil: Well, anyway, in the game, you play a beat on the cop in New York in 1986, I think.

01:03:02.100 --> 01:03:03.380

Tom: It's sometime in the 80s.

01:03:04.940 --> 01:03:13.420

Phil: And it's a retro pixel art style adventure, according to the developer, inspired by 80s cop shows.

01:03:13.420 --> 01:03:15.580

Phil: And I'd say that they've done a very good job of that.

01:03:16.160 --> 01:03:22.120

Phil: In terms of its graphics, it appears like Police Quest when it was at its crest.

01:03:22.620 --> 01:03:26.540

Phil: Police Quest was a spin-off of the Space Quest games.

01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:28.160

Phil: I don't know.

01:03:28.180 --> 01:03:30.900

Phil: Have you had any experience with Space Quest or Police Quest?

01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:37.160

Tom: No, I have not, other than playing the introduction to one of the Police Quests.

01:03:38.880 --> 01:04:03.280

Phil: Daryl Gates was the Chief of Police in Los Angeles during and shortly after the Rodney King civil uprising and presided openly over a police department that didn't really have much consideration for appearing to be correct or woke.

01:04:05.180 --> 01:04:11.380

Tom: I think what you mean, I believe it was one of the more racist and brutal police departments.

01:04:11.580 --> 01:04:17.300

Phil: Well, Wikipedia says he took a hardline aggressive paramilitary approach to law enforcement.

01:04:17.720 --> 01:04:21.020

Phil: He's credited with creating SWAT departments or SWAT teams.

01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:25.840

Phil: And yeah, the LAPD was a paramilitary organization.

01:04:26.240 --> 01:04:32.060

Phil: I think he said that drug dealers should be lined up against a wall and shot.

01:04:33.060 --> 01:04:35.160

Phil: Or he may have even been talking about drug users.

01:04:35.500 --> 01:04:38.740

Phil: Or, I don't know, people of different ethnicities.

01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:43.200

Tom: I think people generally don't make much of a distinction who have had opinions.

01:04:43.600 --> 01:04:48.720

Phil: If you've seen the show LA Noir, was LA Noir a game or a movie?

01:04:49.100 --> 01:04:50.720

Phil: LA Confidential, yeah.

01:04:51.020 --> 01:04:59.900

Phil: If you've seen LA Confidential, the chief of police in that, played by the guy that's in Babe, the pig movie.

01:05:01.340 --> 01:05:02.000

Phil: You know the guy.

01:05:02.020 --> 01:05:05.220

Tom: The guy that played the pig?

01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:10.560

Phil: The guy that played the farmer with the pig, who was named was Babe, pig in the city.

01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:14.940

Phil: In any case, the chief of police in LA Confidential played the pig.

01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:19.180

Tom: That was right there for you to say that the pig was playing the pig.

01:05:19.180 --> 01:05:19.940

Phil: He missed.

01:05:20.740 --> 01:05:21.660

Phil: Hey man.

01:05:22.640 --> 01:05:24.500

Phil: I don't call cops pigs.

01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:27.900

Phil: Anyway, it's based on Daryl Gates.

01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:40.920

Phil: Anyway, Police Quest actually came out with, but this is before the whole controversy, Police Quest actually came out, and it was a Sierra game, the Sierra point and click games, came out with a Daryl Gates Police Quest.

01:05:41.200 --> 01:05:44.160

Phil: And if you can find videos of this, it's hilarious.

01:05:44.540 --> 01:05:51.280

Phil: Now, I bought it at the time to play on my 386, and I found the game play to be absolutely riveting.

01:05:51.940 --> 01:06:00.460

Phil: And the graphics in this game simulate that era of PC game quite clearly, much like Papers, Please attempted to.

01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:10.120

Phil: So in the game, you play as a cop on a beat, and basically, you're a little stick figure type guy.

01:06:10.140 --> 01:06:15.600

Phil: I encourage people just to do an image search for beat cop game, and you'll see exactly what we're talking about.

01:06:16.300 --> 01:06:24.800

Phil: And you're in New York, and you've got this basically a very small city block, which is your beat, and you've been demoted.

01:06:24.820 --> 01:06:37.920

Phil: You were a detective, and you've been being investigated for a corruption charge, and basically demoted down to basically walking the beat as a New York City cop.

01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:44.300

Phil: So you can go into stores, you can write tickets, you can arrest people on the run.

01:06:45.660 --> 01:06:46.380

Phil: You can...

01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:49.080

Phil: Well, that's probably a basic enough description of the game.

01:06:49.100 --> 01:06:50.220

Phil: Have I missed anything there?

01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:51.880

Tom: I don't think so.

01:06:51.900 --> 01:06:59.960

Phil: And then obviously there's some choice in the game where you can side between two criminal groups.

01:07:01.200 --> 01:07:14.120

Phil: One group is your Italian American Mafia type, and the other is an urban American street gang who are black in ethnicity.

01:07:15.540 --> 01:07:34.400

Phil: And you've got to kind of balance doing your daily quota work, which is what the police chief has given you, or your sergeant, your desk sergeant has given you, doing or not doing favors for either of the criminal elements, and then also being cool to people in your neighborhood.

01:07:34.420 --> 01:07:37.640

Phil: So that means going in, talking to people in their shops and restaurants.

01:07:38.700 --> 01:07:42.920

Phil: You can also be cool, so to speak, with people you're writing tickets for.

01:07:42.940 --> 01:07:47.620

Phil: You can choose to not write them a ticket or not tow their car and that sort of thing.

01:07:47.640 --> 01:07:48.800

Tom: And accept their bribes.

01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:50.080

Phil: You can accept their bribes.

01:07:50.780 --> 01:07:58.820

Phil: And then at the end of the day, you get scored on what you were able to achieve against each of those goals.

01:08:00.100 --> 01:08:13.280

Phil: In terms of the homage to Papers, Please, at the bottom of the screen, you've got a digital watch that tells you what time it is, a Motorola radio, handcuffs, a gun and a notebook.

01:08:13.520 --> 01:08:17.440

Phil: And the notebook basically keeps you on track as to what you're doing on a day by day basis.

01:08:18.200 --> 01:08:26.460

Phil: And those work extremely well and look just like they were done in Papers, Please style.

01:08:28.340 --> 01:08:32.920

Phil: The game was developed by a company called Pixelcrow.

01:08:35.200 --> 01:08:38.080

Phil: And I think I'm not quite sure where they're from.

01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:43.460

Phil: I'm pretty sure it's in Eastern Europe, but I could be mistaken there.

01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:45.260

Tom: I think they might be American.

01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:47.320

Phil: No, I really don't think so.

01:08:47.340 --> 01:08:48.380

Tom: I think they may be.

01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:56.620

Tom: I'm pretty sure I watched an interview with them on SUP Homes in the very early days of production.

01:08:57.460 --> 01:09:00.580

Tom: And I am not sure that they are not American.

01:09:00.700 --> 01:09:03.600

Phil: Okay, well if you could check that out for me, that would be good.

01:09:03.620 --> 01:09:04.720

Tom: But I could well be wrong.

01:09:04.740 --> 01:09:06.040

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:10.440

Phil: So in terms of how it depicts, everyone in this game is depicted horribly.

01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:18.560

Phil: You know, the game has cultural stereotypes in it.

01:09:19.420 --> 01:09:23.360

Phil: And some of them are just, I think, unnecessarily in the game.

01:09:23.580 --> 01:09:25.040

Phil: I'm not overly sensitive.

01:09:25.060 --> 01:09:29.400

Tom: It's an homage to 80s police films and shows.

01:09:29.420 --> 01:09:30.800

Phil: TV shows, exactly right.

01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:33.220

Tom: I think they are perfectly on point.

01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:39.760

Phil: I don't remember seeing an 80s TV show where a black person was sitting on their front step eating a watermelon.

01:09:43.160 --> 01:09:45.540

Tom: Maybe not a television show.

01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:45.900

Phil: Yeah.

01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:50.600

Phil: I don't know that that particular cultural reference was necessary.

01:09:52.500 --> 01:09:55.320

Phil: And the game is particularly verbose.

01:09:55.380 --> 01:09:58.920

Phil: I mean, there's a lot of text to click through.

01:09:58.940 --> 01:10:08.000

Phil: And I think that that probably hurt my game experience because I don't know if you had, like, it was never really explained to me how to handcuff someone.

01:10:09.660 --> 01:10:14.560

Phil: Like, basically, if someone's on the run and you're chasing after them, there's a way...

01:10:14.580 --> 01:10:15.560

Tom: I think they did explain it.

01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:19.300

Tom: And you basically just get near to them and press the button.

01:10:19.320 --> 01:10:21.260

Phil: Press the handcuff button, right.

01:10:21.280 --> 01:10:25.920

Phil: Well, when you get close to them, a handcuff insignia appears next to the person.

01:10:26.200 --> 01:10:27.820

Phil: So I was clicking on the insignia.

01:10:27.820 --> 01:10:29.600

Phil: I wasn't clicking on the actual handcuff.

01:10:31.320 --> 01:10:32.020

Phil: You know, that's just...

01:10:32.040 --> 01:10:35.840

Phil: I'm just going to blame myself for that because I did click through a lot of the text.

01:10:37.340 --> 01:10:39.520

Phil: Because it was, I mean, just endless.

01:10:39.540 --> 01:10:40.740

Phil: It just went on and on and on.

01:10:43.780 --> 01:10:48.520

Phil: One of the limits of the game, I thought, was the actual police work that you did.

01:10:50.020 --> 01:10:54.420

Phil: How did you find the size of the gameplay area that was available to you?

01:10:54.980 --> 01:10:59.860

Tom: Well, I am going to refrain from going into too many details until I have finished it.

01:11:01.280 --> 01:11:06.740

Tom: But it depended on the day, essentially, and how much you were meant to be doing.

01:11:10.220 --> 01:11:11.020

Phil: I personally...

01:11:11.100 --> 01:11:15.700

Tom: I don't think there was an issue with the actual size of the area or the game.

01:11:15.740 --> 01:11:23.240

Tom: It more so was about what your tasks were and what random things appeared.

01:11:23.260 --> 01:11:30.520

Phil: And I thought for me that the game, the actual job of the cop was pretty mundane and repetitive.

01:11:30.540 --> 01:11:44.300

Phil: I mean, basically, 99% of what you do is write tickets for parking violations and calling cars to be towed, or variations thereof, you know, so you might have to check cars.

01:11:44.580 --> 01:11:48.360

Tom: I would say you're only mainly doing that on days where not much is happening.

01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:51.140

Phil: Which I found was every day.

01:11:52.200 --> 01:11:54.820

Phil: I mean, if you did engage...

01:11:54.840 --> 01:11:56.060

Tom: Did you do all the side things?

01:11:56.120 --> 01:11:56.980

Phil: I didn't do all of them.

01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:57.320

Tom: Every day?

01:11:57.320 --> 01:12:01.500

Phil: I didn't do all of them because I did find that those did become too challenging.

01:12:02.020 --> 01:12:14.880

Phil: Like, if you accepted every side quest, there was absolutely no way you could get all the side quests done on most days, and still meet your quota, and follow up on the overarching storyline of which there is.

01:12:15.700 --> 01:12:24.740

Tom: Well, I could, and it was a very stressful and pressurized experience in a good way.

01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:37.700

Tom: So I think you need to commit to what's going on, and take everything and attempt it to really get out of the game what they're going for, I think.

01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:38.620

Phil: Yeah, I think so.

01:12:38.640 --> 01:13:04.360

Phil: I mean, like, if you were able to get that tension where you're actually feeling stressed and nervous about getting everything done, obviously that's an element of, you know, tower defence games or another of my favourite work simulators, which is an air traffic control game, you know, where you have to go through these set motions and eventually that stuff just keeps stacking up and stacking up and stacking up.

01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:08.840

Tom: And you've got to strategise on how you're doing your tickets.

01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:09.920

Phil: Yes.

01:13:10.120 --> 01:13:31.820

Tom: And choose when to do them and when to focus on them and whether, as you're on a way to a destination, you should ignore all parked cars or cars with lights broken or worn down tyres or whether, as you're on your way to a place, you should give out a few tickets and that sort of thing.

01:13:32.740 --> 01:13:34.740

Phil: And the game does have some tells.

01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:47.660

Phil: Like, so over time you can say, you know, this isn't a spoiler, this is a helpful tip, but basically, like, if a car's tyres are at the point where you should be writing it a ticket, you'll see skid marks behind where the car is parked.

01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:53.180

Tom: Yep, and if they've got broken lights, you will see a spark on their lights.

01:13:53.360 --> 01:13:53.740

Tom: Really?

01:13:54.860 --> 01:13:55.560

Phil: I thought you had to...

01:13:55.620 --> 01:13:57.660

Tom: It's very hard to see, but it is there.

01:13:57.760 --> 01:13:58.200

Phil: Okay.

01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:09.780

Phil: And there's also cool things that you pick up on in terms of, they give you kind of hints, so there are hints as to possibly there's some days where you could take bribes and get away with it and some days you couldn't.

01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:35.640

Tom: My strategy so far has been essentially if there is a difficult ticket quota to get through all the tickets ignoring all bribes, then if there is time, accept every single bribe following that because if you accept a lot of bribes, you will end up making more money than you will get docked for accepting bribes if you get noticed.

01:14:36.360 --> 01:14:44.140

Phil: Yes, but ultimately, someone could be watching you and that could come back to bite you later on as the game develops.

01:14:44.160 --> 01:14:47.420

Tom: It may well, but I am all for the money.

01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:47.920

Phil: Yes.

01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:52.900

Phil: I thought that the characters inside the stores were well written.

01:14:53.860 --> 01:15:10.380

Tom: Can I just ask, I know that the American job structure is extremely totalitarian in many ways, but why is your alimony payments part of your job at the police force?

01:15:10.400 --> 01:15:12.460

Phil: Yes, that's actually true in Australia as well.

01:15:12.740 --> 01:15:13.620

Tom: Okay, is it?

01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:18.780

Phil: Yes, if you have child support payments, the government docks that directly out of your...

01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:25.580

Phil: that's something that they do with your employer to deduct it directly out of your payroll.

01:15:26.100 --> 01:15:35.980

Phil: So, yes, in this game, your alimony payments are one of the main financial stresses on your life, and you have to have a certain amount of money at certain intervals.

01:15:36.580 --> 01:15:39.400

Phil: And, yes, but believe it or not, I didn't...

01:15:39.440 --> 01:15:48.660

Phil: obviously, I've never been in this situation, but I've been around now and overheard enough things where, yes, that becomes your employer's business, sadly.

01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:52.880

Tom: Fascinating.

01:15:53.840 --> 01:16:03.760

Phil: The overarching story, I found it, without going into spoilers, I found it difficult for long periods of time to progress that plot.

01:16:03.940 --> 01:16:05.940

Phil: Am I again missing something there?

01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:10.320

Tom: A lot of the main story is actually completely optional.

01:16:10.440 --> 01:16:20.920

Tom: So if you don't make phone calls at certain times and don't go and meet up with people, then I think you will be missing out stuff on the main story.

01:16:21.080 --> 01:16:23.000

Phil: Yeah, and I really tried to progress it.

01:16:23.020 --> 01:16:26.720

Phil: So I tried to make all of those phone calls and meet certain people.

01:16:27.360 --> 01:16:34.340

Phil: And I think in some cases, I really would have appreciated an instant replay.

01:16:35.020 --> 01:16:47.180

Phil: Just go back 30 seconds, because sometimes I click on the person I was supposed to meet, and then immediately, because I'm so used to just going through the text, hit the wrong response and then they'd leave, and then that was never followed up on.

01:16:48.260 --> 01:16:56.860

Phil: The game does have a rewind option, or a turn back time option rather, but you have to start from the start of a certain day.

01:16:57.140 --> 01:17:01.380

Phil: It's not like you can turn back time half an hour or an hour, or that sort of thing.

01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:07.700

Phil: The level of detail in the game is quite extraordinary, and I do appreciate that.

01:17:08.040 --> 01:17:10.720

Phil: I also greatly appreciate the aesthetic of the game.

01:17:13.420 --> 01:17:33.320

Phil: And obviously I must have been missing the point somewhere along the line, because I did get to a fail state by about day 16 or 18, where it is possible to have such poor relationships with one group or another, where the game will end, regardless of what you want to do or try to do.

01:17:35.160 --> 01:17:42.140

Phil: And then I went back and rewinded a day, and apparently they just immediately got rid of me again.

01:17:42.160 --> 01:17:47.160

Tom: Can you rewind further or only to the previous day?

01:17:47.180 --> 01:17:52.560

Phil: I wish I could tell you, but honestly by that time, the game had worn out its welcome for me.

01:17:53.940 --> 01:18:00.200

Phil: I was already kind of sick of the game and my inability to really progress the story properly.

01:18:01.160 --> 01:18:03.120

Phil: I was doing really well on my police work.

01:18:03.440 --> 01:18:12.080

Phil: I was doing enough of the side stories that I was keeping one group happy, but apparently I didn't keep the Italian Americans happy enough.

01:18:13.100 --> 01:18:15.100

Phil: I found them to be completely unsympathetic.

01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:25.300

Phil: And so I just kind of just didn't play the game that way, but you've really got to keep everyone on balance to get to that good ending or series of good endings, I guess.

01:18:25.980 --> 01:18:34.820

Phil: Also, I screwed up because of, as what I just described, I was supposed to meet someone and when I met them, I gave them the wrong response accidentally.

01:18:35.580 --> 01:18:38.080

Phil: And again, I was just so sick of the game at that point.

01:18:38.100 --> 01:18:39.640

Phil: I could have replayed that whole day.

01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:45.420

Phil: But the whole thing is like, each day takes a fair bit to get through.

01:18:45.440 --> 01:18:49.760

Tom: Depending on how much stuff there is, they can last 20 to 40 minutes.

01:18:49.780 --> 01:18:50.760

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

01:18:50.880 --> 01:19:02.720

Phil: And so if you're towards the end of that period, going back and replaying that whole day where everything is clockwork, I mean, the exact same stuff will happen.

01:19:03.220 --> 01:19:04.400

Phil: To a degree, to a degree.

01:19:04.420 --> 01:19:09.760

Phil: I mean, the traffic changes, the cars and their parking seems to be fairly pseudo-random.

01:19:11.500 --> 01:19:16.920

Phil: And I actually really liked the actual arresting people and that sort of stuff.

01:19:16.920 --> 01:19:24.760

Phil: I just think that it was, mostly the police work was so strongly centered around a single activity, which was traffic violations.

01:19:25.180 --> 01:19:32.340

Phil: I just wish there were more other police-type work that you could be doing other than just liaising and the side stories.

01:19:34.980 --> 01:19:39.080

Phil: I probably found the church side stories to be the most interesting ones.

01:19:40.700 --> 01:19:46.860

Tom: They've been just starting to get more amusing for me, where I'm up to.

01:19:48.800 --> 01:19:54.780

Phil: I think the early appearance of the Russian cop was really spot on.

01:19:54.800 --> 01:19:55.560

Phil: I loved that one.

01:19:58.620 --> 01:20:00.740

Phil: There's a lot of elements to this game I really enjoyed.

01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:08.400

Phil: Probably, if I could do anything, would shorten the length of the days and have more diversity in terms of the kind of police work that you're doing.

01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:21.700

Tom: I think, to me, the police work doesn't really need more diversity, because if you are doing the side stuff, that gives you a greater variety of things to do.

01:20:23.940 --> 01:20:26.600

Tom: My experience of it, I may as well mention now.

01:20:27.180 --> 01:20:33.800

Tom: I would agree with your general description of how the days unfold.

01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:37.400

Tom: But I think the main goal is two things.

01:20:37.620 --> 01:20:41.340

Tom: One, accruing as much money as possible.

01:20:41.460 --> 01:20:45.980

Tom: And the way I've been doing that may at some point prove my downfall.

01:20:46.740 --> 01:20:56.200

Tom: But, for instance, I am usually about $1,000 above my alimony payments.

01:20:57.120 --> 01:21:08.900

Tom: But the whole point of the game, I think, is one, to do as much side stuff as possible, because that serves two functions.

01:21:09.040 --> 01:21:15.600

Tom: One, the main story stuff is actually presented as a lot of the side stuff, so that's important.

01:21:16.100 --> 01:21:30.540

Tom: And two, the side stuff is really how you're able to balance your relationship with the police, the gangbangers, the mafia, and the local business owners and residents.

01:21:30.700 --> 01:21:39.540

Tom: So when you're doing all of that stuff, it has the same sort of tension of Papers, Please!

01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:45.020

Tom: and other great work simulators, where you feel like you're doing too much stuff at once.

01:21:46.440 --> 01:21:54.180

Tom: And you've also got this basic, really repetitive thing to do, which is the tickets that you have to do as well, which serves two purposes.

01:21:54.340 --> 01:22:05.580

Tom: One, adds to the stress of what you're doing, but two, also acts as a sort of crutch to help you navigate around and keep you grounded.

01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:36.100

Tom: So for the first 10 days, for me, I think it has really struck an excellent balance of how it is structured as a work simulator, and it is tactically somewhat satisfying as well, giving out the tickets, and as you're learning how to look for lights and so forth, before you can more easily notice the sparks, things like checking the lights is very tactilely satisfying as well.

01:22:36.120 --> 01:22:40.220

Tom: So I think I'm definitely much more positive on it than you are.

01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:52.560

Tom: And as an homage to American police shows and cinema of the era, I think it is extremely good.

01:22:52.580 --> 01:23:07.400

Tom: And you are indeed correct, it is certainly not American, it is Polish, which explains why the watermelon scene is in there, and also why it is such a great homage.

01:23:07.400 --> 01:23:26.720

Tom: Because I think if it is American, then it won't have things like the watermelon thing in there and will probably be downplaying how extreme a lot of 80s police related stuff was, if not in its open imagery, in its subtext.

01:23:27.460 --> 01:23:34.020

Phil: Yeah, and in chat I just sent you a picture from Daryl Gates' Police Quest game.

01:23:35.120 --> 01:23:41.000

Phil: As you can see, the graphical style is kind of sort of there, and that's a screenshot that I wouldn't put on our website.

01:23:43.140 --> 01:23:45.280

Phil: Right now, I don't think you could get away with that anymore.

01:23:45.960 --> 01:23:47.180

Phil: But you can see...

01:23:47.200 --> 01:23:48.320

Tom: Well, I certainly would.

01:23:48.320 --> 01:23:49.240

Phil: Yeah, I know you would.

01:23:49.280 --> 01:23:50.620

Phil: And they've got the...

01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:52.440

Phil: See how they've got the tools there along the bottom.

01:23:52.460 --> 01:23:58.740

Phil: So I really do think it's probably more of an homage or copy back to Daryl F.

01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:01.000

Phil: Gates' Police Quest.

01:24:01.320 --> 01:24:06.140

Phil: And again, I strongly encourage you to do an image search for that game.

01:24:06.160 --> 01:24:08.060

Phil: Well, I'm glad you...

01:24:08.480 --> 01:24:14.440

Tom: The lighting also topically looks like one of the characters is wearing a surgeon's mask.

01:24:15.160 --> 01:24:15.700

Phil: What's that?

01:24:16.540 --> 01:24:26.040

Tom: The lighting in the image you have sent me, which if you don't post the front page story for this episode of the podcast, will be on the front page.

01:24:26.060 --> 01:24:30.540

Tom: So please look forward to that if Phil Fogg is lazy listeners.

01:24:31.400 --> 01:24:36.000

Tom: But the lighting looks like the detective is wearing a mask.

01:24:36.420 --> 01:24:37.580

Tom: Yeah, it does.

01:24:37.580 --> 01:24:38.320

Phil: It does.

01:24:38.340 --> 01:24:39.020

Phil: In fact, he may.

01:24:39.040 --> 01:24:40.980

Phil: I forget the actual plot line.

01:24:41.200 --> 01:24:42.080

Phil: But you see how the...

01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:43.980

Phil: This is boring for people who can't see it.

01:24:44.160 --> 01:24:47.120

Phil: But you see the light on those cans near the door.

01:24:47.140 --> 01:24:48.380

Phil: You see the light on the hat.

01:24:48.400 --> 01:24:53.100

Phil: You can see how that comes through in Beat Cop, certainly.

01:24:56.020 --> 01:24:58.340

Phil: So I'm glad you enjoyed it.

01:24:58.360 --> 01:25:03.160

Phil: I thought this was a game that came out recently, but it's actually an old game from 2017.

01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:07.740

Phil: It has tremendously high feedback on Steam.

01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:13.540

Phil: Rightfully so for me so far.

01:25:15.160 --> 01:25:15.500

Phil: Yep.

01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:16.620

Phil: So I'm not going to give it a score.

01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:22.120

Phil: Again, just like with Death in Texas, I think you're giving me a reason to really revisit my experience with it.

01:25:22.140 --> 01:25:23.920

Phil: I spent a lot of time with this game too.

01:25:25.640 --> 01:25:26.000

Phil: But...

01:25:26.620 --> 01:25:38.940

Tom: I think it may be too stressful for you if you put in the amount of commitment that is required to really enjoy it.

01:25:39.200 --> 01:25:42.940

Tom: It may be too stressful.

01:25:43.060 --> 01:25:43.900

Phil: I don't know about that.

01:25:43.920 --> 01:25:49.900

Phil: I mean, because I really like stressful work sims, like the air traffic controller game.

01:25:49.920 --> 01:26:01.720

Phil: But I think probably for me, the downfall for probably this and Death in Texas is the environment in which I have to play this, which is very short periods of time with a lot of distractions going on.

01:26:02.260 --> 01:26:08.280

Phil: And I think this game would benefit from having your full attention when you're playing it, not something that you're doing.

01:26:08.300 --> 01:26:09.700

Tom: Yeah, it definitely needs that.

01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:15.540

Phil: Yeah, and that's obviously something that's lacking in my life right now.

01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:23.840

Phil: My PC game is in a building that at night is very nice and quiet and isolated, but also very cold.

01:26:24.700 --> 01:26:28.060

Phil: So I typically play console games in the winter.

01:26:29.300 --> 01:26:31.780

Phil: So maybe we'll revisit a lot of these later on.

01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:33.660

Phil: Okay, well, great.

01:26:33.680 --> 01:26:36.240

Phil: And you're going to obviously persist with the game then?

01:26:37.240 --> 01:26:37.860

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:26:38.080 --> 01:26:38.500

Phil: Very good.

01:26:38.520 --> 01:26:39.080

Phil: Glad to hear it.

01:26:39.100 --> 01:26:44.360

Phil: And again, there's so much detail in the game that's just really remarkable and wonderful.

01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:48.000

Phil: And I really do appreciate the graphical style of it, that's for sure.

01:26:49.820 --> 01:26:51.520

Phil: But that's enough of this indie rubbish.

01:26:52.400 --> 01:26:58.860

Phil: Surely one of us has been playing a AAA game that's relevant to these times as well.

01:27:00.340 --> 01:27:02.100

Phil: Have you been playing Last of Us 2?

01:27:02.900 --> 01:27:03.620

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:27:04.300 --> 01:27:24.580

Tom: But I have been playing Metro Exodus, and I'm not going to talk about the actual game itself, but we discussed previously on the show that my Windows Store version of the game committed suicide, and I had to get it on the Epic Games Store for $27.

01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:36.060

Tom: And I don't know if you noticed this, but in the Steam sale, here's an example of the free markets competition resulting in positive things for the consumer.

01:27:36.360 --> 01:27:48.580

Tom: The much-maligned Epic Store in its sales has been offering coupons for users that give like $10 or sometimes even $15 off their purchase.

01:27:48.800 --> 01:27:51.560

Tom: And that can even be on games that are like $20.

01:27:51.580 --> 01:27:59.280

Tom: So you can essentially get $50, 50% off cheap games on the Epic Store during their sales.

01:27:59.340 --> 01:28:05.500

Tom: And if there's a good price on a game, you can get more off due to their coupon system.

01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:20.760

Tom: I ended up managing to pick up Metro Exodus with all of its DLC as a result of this coupon for $27, which as I projected would be cheaper than the best price on Steam in the upcoming summer sale, which was $38.

01:28:21.080 --> 01:28:28.440

Tom: And their coupon, which was only for $8, was only applicable if you were spending $45 or more.

01:28:29.360 --> 01:28:39.560

Tom: But there is an example of a better sales practice of Epic influencing Steam and forcing them to implement their own coupon system.

01:28:40.540 --> 01:29:01.200

Tom: So it's very good, lucky that the people who are in a consumerist cult for Steam are not large enough to kill off Epic Games as yet, because it is resulting in a positive effect on Steam, at least so far.

01:29:01.200 --> 01:29:02.040

Phil: Yeah, definitely.

01:29:02.060 --> 01:29:06.840

Phil: And I don't understand the corporate cult that's behind them.

01:29:07.760 --> 01:29:09.680

Phil: Just a piece of news that came in.

01:29:09.700 --> 01:29:10.780

Tom: Well, it's not just Steam.

01:29:11.020 --> 01:29:14.460

Tom: It's general gaming and fandom culture.

01:29:14.480 --> 01:29:27.620

Tom: For instance, Tencent announced a cyberpunk-themed game, and there are sways of people suggesting that it is a cyberpunk 27.7 ripoff.

01:29:27.860 --> 01:29:37.840

Tom: And I hate to break it to CD Projekt Red fans, but there is literally nothing original in Cyberpunk 2077.

01:29:37.860 --> 01:29:38.460

Phil: Absolutely.

01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:39.420

Tom: Literally nothing.

01:29:39.740 --> 01:29:40.880

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:29:40.900 --> 01:29:43.940

Phil: Just some news about Epic and Tencent and all the rest of it.

01:29:44.120 --> 01:29:48.160

Phil: Sony spent a quarter of a billion dollars investing in Epic this week.

01:29:48.180 --> 01:29:49.980

Phil: So $250 million.

01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:53.560

Phil: Bought them a 1.5% share in Epic.

01:29:55.940 --> 01:29:58.260

Phil: So I don't know why you would do that.

01:29:59.320 --> 01:30:00.860

Phil: Maybe it's, who knows?

01:30:00.980 --> 01:30:01.400

Phil: I don't know.

01:30:01.420 --> 01:30:07.300

Phil: Maybe they're going to do some exclusive content with Fortnite, and that's the cost of doing business.

01:30:07.480 --> 01:30:08.760

Tom: They may well be.

01:30:10.140 --> 01:30:12.080

Phil: Tencent owns 40% of Epic.

01:30:13.280 --> 01:30:18.700

Phil: So for what it's worth, I've always liked Epic as a company.

01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:22.420

Phil: I've loved the products that they produce mostly.

01:30:23.780 --> 01:30:27.120

Phil: And I don't see any downside to the Epic store whatsoever.

01:30:28.980 --> 01:30:45.960

Tom: I think it is a great positive to the online game store ecosystem because it is literally the only other competitive steam because GOG is in its own niche, as is Humble Bundle.

01:30:46.820 --> 01:30:55.000

Tom: And then outside of that, all you have are the key resellers, which are obviously in their own niche, even further apart.

01:30:56.460 --> 01:30:57.800

Phil: I'd say itch.io is the best.

01:30:57.820 --> 01:31:04.120

Tom: And obviously itch.io is also another alternative, but again, in its own niche.

01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:06.860

Phil: I don't have any tattoos right now.

01:31:08.440 --> 01:31:12.000

Phil: If I had already had a few, I'd probably get an itch.io tattoo.

01:31:12.020 --> 01:31:14.000

Phil: I figured I'd owe them.

01:31:14.260 --> 01:31:16.120

Phil: It could just be there along with the rest of them.

01:31:16.140 --> 01:31:17.840

Phil: People would be like, dude, what's that for?

01:31:17.860 --> 01:31:21.360

Phil: I'm like, oh, in 2020, they gave me 1600 games for $5.

01:31:23.120 --> 01:31:24.260

Phil: It's the least I could do.

01:31:25.780 --> 01:31:31.040

Phil: But hey, so Metro Exodus, Metro, who develops Metro?

01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:37.100

Tom: 4A Studios, but we're not here to talk about the game itself in terms of any of its content.

01:31:37.120 --> 01:31:39.420

Tom: We're here to compare the two different versions.

01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:58.100

Tom: And again, I was shocked by the differences in the Caspian, the lighthouse scene, where on the Windows Store version, I had regular constant crashes that took me a long time to navigate through.

01:31:59.180 --> 01:32:06.360

Tom: That was not there at all, and the entire level generally ran about five frames per second faster.

01:32:07.180 --> 01:32:18.680

Tom: And outside of the Caspian on the Windows Games Store version, the game crashed several times.

01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:26.120

Tom: On the Epic Games Store version, so far I have crashed once in total.

01:32:26.120 --> 01:32:26.620

Tom: Why?

01:32:27.040 --> 01:32:27.900

Phil: How could this be?

01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:40.220

Tom: So I don't understand why or how, but apparently Windows Store versions of games are potentially as bad as their reputation would suggest.

01:32:41.620 --> 01:32:54.880

Tom: And the way in which the Metro Exodus Windows Store version committed suicide, I would highly suggest not getting a game on Windows Store if another option is available.

01:32:55.160 --> 01:32:57.240

Tom: Their prices are usually worse as well.

01:32:57.520 --> 01:32:58.620

Phil: It's just astounding.

01:32:58.640 --> 01:33:01.900

Phil: I just don't understand how it could be the same game, same computer.

01:33:01.920 --> 01:33:03.900

Phil: I mean, it should be the same install packet.

01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:05.680

Phil: I just don't get it.

01:33:05.800 --> 01:33:16.440

Tom: There must be some differences because, for instance, where the saves go, the Windows Store version goes into some completely esoteric and ridiculous place as well.

01:33:16.460 --> 01:33:20.400

Tom: So who knows how and why?

01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:23.660

Tom: But there appear to be differences somehow.

01:33:24.820 --> 01:33:35.180

Tom: And the other thing, last thing on Metro, is I actually just finished reading today the Metro 2033 novel.

01:33:35.640 --> 01:33:38.080

Phil: Oh, should I be getting a pen to write this down?

01:33:38.080 --> 01:33:38.840

Phil: Is it any good?

01:33:39.700 --> 01:33:42.760

Tom: Well, shockingly, it was extremely good.

01:33:43.220 --> 01:33:46.180

Tom: I was expecting it to be complete and utter shit.

01:33:46.740 --> 01:33:47.280

Phil: What's it called?

01:33:47.300 --> 01:33:48.520

Phil: Metro 2033?

01:33:48.540 --> 01:33:57.580

Tom: Metro 2033 by Dmitry Glukhovsky, who was involved in the writing of both 2033 and Last Light.

01:33:58.180 --> 01:33:59.140

Phil: How do you spell his last name?

01:33:59.160 --> 01:33:59.820

Tom: Not Exodus.

01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:01.500

Tom: Glukhovsky.

01:34:02.180 --> 01:34:03.220

Phil: You don't know how to spell his name.

01:34:13.080 --> 01:34:13.340

Phil: S-K-Y.

01:34:13.360 --> 01:34:14.680

Phil: And it's Dmitry D-M-I-T-R-I.

01:34:14.700 --> 01:34:16.420

Tom: Not Dmitry D-I-M.

01:34:17.380 --> 01:34:18.380

Phil: Yeah.

01:34:18.940 --> 01:34:20.260

Phil: Well, that's amazing.

01:34:20.340 --> 01:34:21.080

Phil: It's actually good.

01:34:21.720 --> 01:34:22.340

Tom: Yes, it is.

01:34:22.360 --> 01:34:56.160

Tom: And I bring it up because in the original game in Metro 2033, and also Last Light as well, Last Light was much more focused on the metaphysical themes that were in 2033, but I mentioned how extraordinarily Russian it was in that the stations you were exploring, the people you were interacting with were all basically mouthpieces for various political or philosophical ideologies.

01:34:56.960 --> 01:35:00.200

Tom: And it created this exceptional atmosphere.

01:35:00.220 --> 01:35:13.600

Tom: In the book, of course, this is much more exaggerated, and the metaphysical elements of Last Light that were downplayed in Metro 2033 is at the forefront as well as the philosophical and political stuff.

01:35:13.960 --> 01:35:27.700

Tom: So it's basically those two thematic bases combined into the one package, and obviously there's more room to expand upon it in the book compared to the game.

01:35:28.260 --> 01:35:54.960

Tom: But even more impressively, and I don't know if this was deliberate or not, but according to one internet profile of him, he is a critic of modern Russia's politics, so it may well be deliberate in the game there other than as being part of the Russian writing tradition and even Soviet writing tradition as well.

01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:57.800

Tom: This didn't really change during communism.

01:35:59.200 --> 01:36:45.100

Tom: Other than those elements being there basically just as a traditional way of telling the story, the way the whole of the Metro setting is presented and the philosophy and the political discussions are presented is very, very, very much comes across as being commentary on the propaganda style of the Putin government and his absolutely amazing, the people who does his stuff, where you're basically going around this new world that has appeared in some time before 2033, i.e.

01:36:45.140 --> 01:36:54.280

Tom: in the modern era, after a massive change in society completely collapsing the accepted way of understanding the world.

01:36:54.340 --> 01:37:14.620

Tom: And in replacement of this is basically a lapping version of previous ideologies and philosophies, all presented simultaneously, openly as coming from the source of government funding and propaganda.

01:37:15.200 --> 01:37:30.700

Tom: And you're left with a world where you are presented with all these openly false ideas, and you have to navigate it in this nihilistic setting.

01:37:30.980 --> 01:37:41.120

Tom: And while this is very much in line with all the anti-Russian propaganda that is out there, I do recommend people go out and read Alexander Dugan.

01:37:41.240 --> 01:37:47.180

Tom: And I've forgotten the name of the more interesting PR people in the Russian government.

01:37:47.440 --> 01:37:58.280

Tom: The former theatre director and the novelist and short story writer is very much in line with their own propaganda as well.

01:37:58.480 --> 01:38:12.500

Tom: So I was not expecting that, and it may not even be intentional, but merely be accidental coming from a writer who unconsciously has absorbed a lot of the culture in which he lives.

01:38:12.580 --> 01:38:37.680

Tom: But regardless, it is a step up from the games, which I was not expecting, and a fascinating depiction and way of modern day Russia, and a way of presenting it in the metaphor of the metro system, where you are literally going from important Russian location to important Russian location.

01:38:38.220 --> 01:38:40.780

Phil: Do you follow 4A games at all?

01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:44.580

Phil: I mean, in terms of, you know, outside of metro and...

01:38:46.740 --> 01:38:48.800

Tom: Outside of metro, not really.

01:38:48.820 --> 01:38:49.520

Phil: Yeah, okay.

01:38:49.540 --> 01:38:51.460

Tom: Do they do anything outside of metro?

01:38:51.740 --> 01:38:52.500

Phil: No, they don't.

01:38:52.500 --> 01:38:55.420

Phil: I mean, they've been doing metro for almost 10 years now.

01:38:55.800 --> 01:38:58.100

Phil: Well, they have been doing metro for over 10 years now.

01:38:58.560 --> 01:39:00.200

Phil: It's the sole thing that they do.

01:39:00.200 --> 01:39:09.100

Phil: And like, it's a very well-respected game and probably must be highly successful if they're still doing it after 10 years.

01:39:10.340 --> 01:39:18.580

Phil: I certainly know that the marketing of the game has been entirely sensitive and thoughtful over the years.

01:39:18.600 --> 01:39:26.900

Phil: So I just hope that they can continue doing what they want to do, but I'd also like to see something a little bit different out of them.

01:39:28.720 --> 01:39:33.260

Tom: Well, they did something a little bit different with Exodus, so they weren't just repeating themselves.

01:39:33.700 --> 01:39:34.820

Phil: No, they certainly did.

01:39:34.980 --> 01:39:38.660

Phil: And I remember the response to that wasn't that great either.

01:39:39.460 --> 01:39:45.140

Phil: But I did think that what they were doing with Exodus was enough of a departure.

01:39:45.160 --> 01:39:51.100

Phil: I'm just saying, are they going to get out of the world that they're in and do something else?

01:39:52.160 --> 01:39:52.640

Phil: Who knows?

01:39:52.660 --> 01:39:57.280

Phil: I mean, if they're making money and they're selling games, then, you know...

01:39:57.360 --> 01:40:02.120

Tom: I believe they have made a VR game that is unrelated to Metro.

01:40:02.140 --> 01:40:04.380

Tom: So they have technically done one other thing.

01:40:04.980 --> 01:40:09.900

Phil: The only reason they made the VR game unrelated to Metro was because people kept having to take off their...

01:40:10.200 --> 01:40:13.160

Phil: kept taking off their VR goggles to clear the steam.

01:40:13.180 --> 01:40:14.120

Tom: To get a new filter.

01:40:17.380 --> 01:40:18.140

Phil: All right, well...

01:40:19.120 --> 01:40:20.080

Tom: And I should add this.

01:40:20.820 --> 01:40:31.560

Tom: I would put this Metro 2033 well above Roadside Picnic, which is the source material for the stalker games and also the stalker film.

01:40:31.760 --> 01:40:34.780

Phil: Right, which is also still on my reading list.

01:40:34.980 --> 01:40:35.340

Phil: Actually...

01:40:35.920 --> 01:40:41.380

Tom: With the hierarchy for stalker, it goes the film is obviously incomparable.

01:40:42.360 --> 01:40:49.740

Tom: Then there is the game and then there is a long distance between the game and Roadside Picnic.

01:40:49.980 --> 01:41:10.040

Tom: But I would recommend reading Roadside Picnic and Metro 2033 because Metro 2033 very much comes out of Roadside Picnic and it is fascinating comparing the two and the different cultures from which they come from.

01:41:10.660 --> 01:41:19.300

Tom: Yet their consistency with the tradition of the Russian novel, even though they are both obviously genre works.

01:41:22.500 --> 01:41:29.500

Phil: Okay, well, I'm looking forward to what they do next, and I'll certainly pick up that book and give it a read.

01:41:30.100 --> 01:41:31.680

Phil: Thank you very much for the recommendation.

01:41:34.040 --> 01:41:43.460

Tom: And just before we move on from Communism, I believe in a previous episode of the show, you called Marxism very armchair.

01:41:44.960 --> 01:41:45.420

Phil: Did I?

01:41:45.440 --> 01:41:46.920

Tom: I think so.

01:41:47.320 --> 01:41:57.700

Tom: And I have now read Das Kapital, as well as several Austrian and classical economic works.

01:41:57.900 --> 01:42:00.580

Tom: And I would have to question that analysis.

01:42:01.220 --> 01:42:05.360

Phil: I don't know under what context I said it was armchair.

01:42:05.380 --> 01:42:08.120

Tom: I think this was in our discussion of cultural Marxism.

01:42:08.140 --> 01:42:29.820

Tom: Maybe you're referring to Marxist, because one interesting thing that I've noticed about American Marxists, and it explains why American Marxists are so tolerated in America, and they managed to successfully survive the communist purge, whereas many other left-wing movements did not.

01:42:29.960 --> 01:42:34.920

Tom: And American Marxists are essentially conservatives.

01:42:36.820 --> 01:42:42.460

Tom: Their commentary on the recent protests are absolutely astounding.

01:42:43.260 --> 01:43:01.100

Tom: Many of them are in the first place against them because they're scared of slogans like defund the police, and others completely dismiss it solely because they think there is no class criticism in it.

01:43:01.120 --> 01:43:11.320

Tom: Now, there is certainly a non-class criticism at the center of it, but they apparently have not had any exposure to it.

01:43:11.380 --> 01:43:27.600

Tom: They haven't had any exposure to the protests outside of, to use a much abused term, the mainstream media, because there are many people involved in the protests who do have a very economic reason for protesting and rioting.

01:43:28.540 --> 01:43:39.440

Tom: And they're there merely to comment and dismiss it and not even attempt to use it and reframe what is going on.

01:43:39.820 --> 01:43:44.640

Tom: It's absolutely astounding and explains why Marxism still goes on.

01:43:44.660 --> 01:43:56.900

Tom: But Das Kapital, as opposed to Marxists, I do not think you can describe that as an armchair analysis at all.

01:43:57.280 --> 01:43:57.900

Phil: I don't know.

01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:00.060

Phil: Yeah, I don't know what I was talking about there.

01:44:00.080 --> 01:44:03.020

Phil: I know we were talking about Mussolini and how much of a hack he was.

01:44:05.140 --> 01:44:07.540

Phil: We got into Stalin a little bit, I thought, but...

01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:16.140

Tom: Well, I have read a Stalin book as well, and Stalin's understanding of dialectical materialism is very much...

01:44:16.820 --> 01:44:28.700

Tom: It's like reading a blog, essentially, an absolutely terrifying blog interpretation of Marxism.

01:44:28.740 --> 01:44:37.140

Phil: It is incredible to me how Marx got to the position he was, but you could say that about a lot of historical figures from that period.

01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:43.620

Phil: I guess there's just a very shallow pool of applicants, really.

01:44:44.720 --> 01:44:46.820

Tom: I think Dars Kapital is...

01:44:47.580 --> 01:45:12.160

Tom: I'm yet to read Adam Smith, and he is my greatest hope for some classical economics that is in any way applicable to reality and is not entirely based on mathematical equations and school textbook style thought experiments, which unfortunately Dars Kapital has a lot of in it.

01:45:12.180 --> 01:45:18.280

Tom: But Dars Kapital is, I think, completely worthy of its reputation.

01:45:19.280 --> 01:45:28.120

Tom: It certainly needs an editor because 50% of it should be deleted that falls into the trap of mathematical masturbation.

01:45:28.560 --> 01:46:03.880

Tom: But a lot of it is a genuine attempt at applying empiricism to economics with detailed descriptions on how jobs actually function, how interactions between different people in the economy actually functions in real events, as well as very, very detailed and high quality descriptions of labour conditions and so forth, which is supported by a wealth of other empirical evidence from the era.

01:46:05.220 --> 01:46:17.920

Tom: So my reading of it was that it was the complete opposite of an armchair analysis and a genuine attempt at looking at economics empirically.

01:46:18.420 --> 01:46:24.420

Tom: And most other economics that I've read, the reverse has been true.

01:46:26.920 --> 01:46:31.440

Tom: But I would not recommend people read Das Kapital or Stalin.

01:46:32.120 --> 01:46:42.020

Tom: My recommendation for left-wing political figures, which Marx obviously wasn't, but Stalin was, would be The Green Book by Gaddafi.

01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:52.160

Tom: It features a tremendously entertaining section on the dictatorship of sports, and is well worth reading for that alone.

01:46:52.800 --> 01:46:56.280

Phil: He was big in the polo scene, as I recall.

01:46:56.300 --> 01:46:58.280

Phil: I think he was also an avid footballer.

01:47:00.440 --> 01:47:01.940

Tom: I don't think he was an avid footballer.

01:47:01.960 --> 01:47:03.320

Tom: He was very much against football.

01:47:03.880 --> 01:47:04.760

Phil: I've got him wrong then.

01:47:04.800 --> 01:47:06.960

Phil: But I know he played polo.

01:47:08.140 --> 01:47:10.120

Phil: But so where do you get a copy of the green book?

01:47:11.360 --> 01:47:13.800

Tom: I read mine on archive.org.

01:47:13.900 --> 01:47:16.060

Tom: It is widely available on the internet.

01:47:16.560 --> 01:47:23.320

Phil: See, there's a book by Moun Sharif Parev, I think, was his name, the guy that was in charge of Pakistan.

01:47:24.580 --> 01:47:31.840

Phil: And I bought that book immediately when it was available because I was like, oh, it immediately became a bestseller because the CIA went out and bought them all.

01:47:32.380 --> 01:47:33.740

Phil: And then purged them.

01:47:35.140 --> 01:47:38.820

Phil: And I'm always interested in reading what goes on in these people's minds.

01:47:38.840 --> 01:47:43.460

Phil: And yeah, he was not sane.

01:47:44.820 --> 01:47:47.220

Phil: But yeah, okay, well...

01:47:47.460 --> 01:47:51.100

Tom: Gaddafi, I would categorise as sane but eccentric.

01:47:51.240 --> 01:47:51.600

Phil: Yes.

01:47:51.780 --> 01:47:54.940

Phil: Okay, so archive.org is a good place then to get some of this stuff.

01:47:56.940 --> 01:47:58.200

Phil: What's the readability like?

01:47:58.220 --> 01:47:59.860

Phil: What do you get, like a PDF or...

01:48:01.400 --> 01:48:02.460

Tom: They have their own.

01:48:02.660 --> 01:48:06.360

Tom: You can read it just as a blank text document, if you prefer.

01:48:06.440 --> 01:48:15.340

Tom: Or you can use their book style reader, which you can arrange as a multiple page view, a double page view or a single page view.

01:48:16.080 --> 01:48:19.460

Phil: Do you read most of these on screen, like on the PC or...?

01:48:20.000 --> 01:48:21.160

Tom: Most of them I listen to.

01:48:21.180 --> 01:48:26.320

Tom: They have an automatic text-to-speech program.

01:48:26.700 --> 01:48:40.040

Tom: And if you can get the female voice on there, you can speed it up to being extremely fast, so you can read at least 100 pages per hour.

01:48:40.040 --> 01:48:40.920

Phil: Wow, okay.

01:48:41.240 --> 01:48:44.080

Tom: If not more, depending on the density of the text.

01:48:44.100 --> 01:48:45.000

Phil: Well, there's a good tip.

01:48:46.400 --> 01:48:51.200

Phil: I think with that, we'll probably just have to close out Episode 127 and pick up where we...

01:48:51.360 --> 01:48:53.760

Phil: what we left on the table for the next episode.

01:48:55.260 --> 01:49:00.180

Phil: I, for one, enjoyed your article on Call of Duty Modern Warfare.

01:49:00.840 --> 01:49:04.100

Phil: I really wanted to talk to you about it on this show, but we'll pick that up in the next show.

Phil: But just go over to gameunder.net, see Tom's pictorial and commentary and all of our other stuff.

Phil: Mr.

Phil: Towers, thank you for joining us.

01:49:14.960 --> 01:49:15.840

Tom: Thank you, Hammeh.

01:49:15.860 --> 01:49:23.780

Tom: And please look forward to our conclusion on what is the best Neo-Nazi novel in the next episode.

01:49:23.840 --> 01:49:24.460

Phil: Absolutely.

01:49:24.480 --> 01:49:27.240

Phil: And also my final impressions of Last of Us 2.

Game Under Podcast 126

Stream below or right-click and download here You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS ?

Introduction
0:00:16 Serious business out fo the way first.

Trademark Banter

0:01:21 Cheques for Free

0:02:31 Itch.io Game Bundle - Incredible Value

Final Impressions - Tom & Phil

0:13:00 Work Simulator: The Morticians Tale

Trademark Banter

0:27:06 Gana Mini RCA to HDMI Connector

First Impressions - Tom Towers

0:28:27 Streets of Rage 4

Special Quiz 0:37:16 Gun or No Gun?

News

0:46:25 Sony Playstation 5 Reveal

1:02:30 Tom's Take on the Leak of the The Last of Us 2 Leak

1:05:36 Back to PS5 News

The Morticians Tale - Tom & Phil

1:15:35 We forgot to score The Morticians Tale

1:16:05 Tom forgot to score Sky

An Aural Review by Tom Towers

0:18:35 A Plague Tale: Innocence

Censorship

1:49:10 And Other Topics

Transcipt:

Tom: What on earth are we getting at?

Phil: Sorry, let's do that again with some energy.

Phil: Hi everybody, and welcome to episode 126 of The Game Under Podcast, Australia's longest running video game podcast.

Phil: This is Phil Fogg.

Phil: I'm joined this week by my co-host, Tom Towers.

Phil: Tom, welcome to the show.

Tom: Thank you, I'm glad to be here.

Phil: Yeah, look, I've got to first of all say that if our audio quality is different, for those people who don't usually listen to the show, during these unprecedented times, we are both recording from our home studio, so we apologize in advance for any audio glitches.

Tom: We're social distancing.

00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:52.300

Phil: We are social distancing, and we're social justicing last week.

00:00:52.320 --> 00:01:03.020

Phil: I do want to, in all seriousness, say that we did not record an episode last week to give space to the more pressing issues that need discussion.

00:01:03.260 --> 00:01:17.300

Tom: We missed the Boycott Podcast Day, but unlike certain podcasts that we shan't mention that merely did not release an episode for a day, we didn't release an episode for an entire week.

00:01:17.460 --> 00:01:20.940

Tom: So I think we're, as ever, ahead of the curve.

00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.420

Phil: Well, we certainly are ahead of the curve, and that relates to COVID as well.

00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:29.380

Phil: I've got to say, so far 2020 is working out great for me.

00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:34.820

Phil: I got a check from the IRS last week for $1,200 US dollars.

00:01:35.820 --> 00:01:38.220

Phil: And it said on the front, Donald J.

00:01:38.220 --> 00:01:41.520

Phil: Trump financial relief package.

00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:43.200

Phil: I'm not joking.

00:01:43.220 --> 00:01:44.120

Phil: This is not a joke.

00:01:44.540 --> 00:01:46.140

Phil: This year is great.

00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:47.680

Phil: I got $1,200 US dollars.

00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:48.360

Phil: I cashed it.

00:01:48.380 --> 00:01:50.840

Phil: It was like over $1,700 Australian.

00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:54.700

Tom: That's $200 more than the Australian version, by the way.

00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:56.300

Phil: Is that right?

00:01:56.320 --> 00:02:06.360

Tom: I believe the Australian version was $750 and then another $750, which I did not receive, by the way.

00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:08.340

Phil: Well, I didn't receive it either.

00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:09.800

Phil: I haven't received anything from the Australians.

00:02:09.820 --> 00:02:12.860

Tom: That I believe is because neither you or I are parasites.

00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:14.520

Phil: Ah, I see.

00:02:14.580 --> 00:02:24.000

Phil: But just for listeners who don't know, I am also a US citizen and everyone who filed their taxes last year gets a check.

00:02:24.020 --> 00:02:26.400

Phil: So I got a check because I filed my taxes last year.

00:02:26.540 --> 00:02:26.880

Phil: So...

00:02:27.700 --> 00:02:30.860

Tom: Is there a way that foreign citizens can file taxes?

00:02:31.480 --> 00:02:34.640

Phil: That's, well, yeah, no, actually you can't.

00:02:35.180 --> 00:02:35.860

Phil: Unless you're a...

00:02:36.260 --> 00:02:37.200

Phil: Yeah, it is a pity.

00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:43.120

Phil: But the other great thing that's happened, I don't know if you know about this game bundle that's been available on itch.

00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:48.820

Phil: Now itch.io is a, what do you call it?

00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.340

Phil: Basically a platform for downloadable games.

00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:58.160

Phil: And it's mostly, in fact, it's probably entirely independent developers that publish their games there.

00:02:59.260 --> 00:03:06.600

Phil: And I know it's been around for a few years now, but I've never bothered to actually go there until I heard about this great bundle.

00:03:06.620 --> 00:03:15.160

Phil: They're giving away over 1600 games, and all you have to do is donate $5 or pay $5.

00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.020

Phil: It says donate, which I guess they're giving that to the developers or something.

00:03:19.320 --> 00:03:22.020

Phil: But get this, there's over 1600 games.

00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:24.340

Phil: 1600, this is a gift.

00:03:24.460 --> 00:03:25.400

Phil: This is a mitzvah.

00:03:25.420 --> 00:03:31.360

Phil: This is, I, I've just been enthralled with this since I found out about it.

00:03:32.060 --> 00:03:35.580

Phil: Are you familiar with this great deal?

00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:36.200

Tom: Yes, I am.

00:03:36.220 --> 00:03:37.980

Tom: I actually got it before you did.

00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:40.420

Phil: Well, thanks for the heads up.

00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:46.220

Tom: I was gonna mention it on the show because I knew it would still be going when the show came around.

00:03:47.540 --> 00:03:56.520

Tom: When I bought it, and I assume the rest of the games are included in mine, I hope, but when I bought it, it was only 700 games or so.

00:03:58.060 --> 00:04:01.320

Tom: It's now exploded to 1600.

00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:03.540

Phil: Yes, yeah.

00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:10.300

Phil: In fact, I've been playing, I've downloaded, look, there's a couple of glitchy things about it or things that aren't so great.

00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:19.320

Phil: I've just, for people who aren't into this, go to itch.io, it's not some scam, some scam and pay your five bucks to get all these games.

00:04:19.640 --> 00:04:20.900

Phil: But these are main games.

00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.440

Phil: These are not games no one's heard of.

00:04:22.460 --> 00:04:55.920

Phil: I've so far downloaded Celeste, The Space Between, which is, no one's heard of it, but it looks interesting, Cook, Serve, Delicious, The Morticians Tale, 2064 Read Only Memories, Bleed, Pyre, the game from the guys that did Bastion, Quadrilateral Cowboy, which is a game I forgot to get, Glittermint and Grove, Wheels of Aurelia, Kids, One Night Stand, I mean, A Night in the Woods, A Short Hike.

00:04:56.400 --> 00:04:57.680

Phil: It just goes on and on and on.

00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:06.200

Phil: In fact, the hardest thing is to actually find, what games you want out of that big stack of, essentially free games.

00:05:06.440 --> 00:05:08.820

Tom: Even has Walden, a game.

00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:11.020

Phil: I've not heard of that.

00:05:11.080 --> 00:05:17.380

Tom: I have no idea if it's good or not, but that is a hilarious concept for a game.

00:05:18.520 --> 00:05:22.080

Phil: Now, what games have you downloaded of note?

00:05:22.100 --> 00:05:31.080

Phil: Or what really did you go like, I've got to get that or I've, games that you've downloaded that you wouldn't otherwise have been exposed to that you, like Minute is in here?

00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:31.540

Phil: Yeah.

00:05:31.960 --> 00:05:34.460

Tom: That was one of them that immediately stood out to me.

00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:37.020

Tom: Another was, of course, Night in the Woods.

00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:39.280

Tom: Yeah.

00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:48.740

Tom: A Morticians Tale, I had not heard of before getting the Bundle, but reading comments, I thought that sounds like it could be interesting and it is a work simulator.

00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:55.400

Tom: So obviously this being the number one work simulator podcast.

00:05:55.420 --> 00:05:56.360

Phil: Podcast, yeah.

00:05:56.380 --> 00:05:56.940

Tom: Easily.

00:05:56.960 --> 00:06:00.000

Tom: I had to immediately go for that.

00:06:00.020 --> 00:06:06.320

Tom: The other game that caught my eye was the topical Tonight We Riot.

00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:13.760

Phil: Oh, I saw that and I thought it was perhaps a little too, like I just thought it was something that thrown out in last minute.

00:06:13.780 --> 00:06:15.660

Phil: So Tonight We Riot, have you tried it yet?

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.280

Tom: I have played the first level, which is basically a tutorial.

00:06:20.980 --> 00:06:36.300

Tom: And while the music is fantastic, very reminiscent of Hotline Miami, not as rhythmic or funky as Hotline Miami, but a similar sort of vibe to it, and very well done.

00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:43.160

Tom: The opening in terms of gameplay did not make a great impression.

00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:54.540

Tom: It's a very bare bones beat-em-up, which didn't amount to much more than just spamming, attack and aiming the odd Molotov cocktail.

00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.500

Tom: But it is essentially a tutorial.

00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:02.500

Tom: So I am reserving judgment beyond that.

00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:11.600

Phil: Well, hey, if people want to friend me on that service, my username is Game Under Phil, which is the same as my Steam name.

00:07:11.620 --> 00:07:16.940

Phil: So I would say, gift me some games, but I don't think there's any games left.

00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:23.420

Phil: Another game that struck out to me, I've heard about was another lost phone, Laura's Story.

00:07:24.320 --> 00:07:28.520

Phil: And a lot of these are warmed up, you know, phone games or adventure games.

00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:39.080

Phil: But you know, to people like us, or people like me, I mean, like, this is incredible, just because there's so many games out there that are interesting on itch.

00:07:40.840 --> 00:07:43.960

Phil: And they're all gonna be unique, and yeah, they're gonna be crap.

00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:49.640

Phil: And like One Night Stand is a game that I'd heard about that I'd completely forgotten about.

00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:51.740

Phil: And that's the great thing, I guess, is the exposure.

00:07:51.940 --> 00:07:55.740

Phil: And then, you know, I'm following the developers as I'm downloading these.

00:07:56.540 --> 00:08:00.560

Phil: It's gonna expose me to some really great creative works.

00:08:00.700 --> 00:08:02.640

Tom: Read Only Memories is on there too?

00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:05.780

Phil: Yes, 2064, Read Only Memories.

00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:07.600

Phil: That's like the second one I downloaded.

00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.480

Phil: Night of the Consumers is another one.

00:08:10.500 --> 00:08:11.740

Tom: That is one that stood out to me.

00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:26.840

Tom: I was actually familiar with that before the massive bundle and had been very close to purchasing it for $1.93 US on multiple occasions.

00:08:26.860 --> 00:08:29.040

Tom: But luckily, I held off.

00:08:31.280 --> 00:08:33.100

Phil: Yep, yep.

00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:36.440

Phil: Look at the cover art for the game The Space Between.

00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:41.560

Phil: The game is described as the space between is a surreal narrative experience in three acts.

00:08:42.180 --> 00:08:43.480

Phil: And it looked right up our alley.

00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:46.660

Phil: And then there was a-

00:08:46.680 --> 00:09:09.280

Tom: Another game that just reminds me is I searched for that that is in a, from what I've seen, potentially tremendously either uninteresting or interesting work simulator that's approaching the concept of a work simulator from a very different angle to most of the first person desk based work simulators we play.

00:09:09.300 --> 00:09:12.080

Tom: That is Diaries of a Spaceport Janitor.

00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:13.960

Phil: Oh, yes.

00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:15.560

Phil: Yeah, let me write that one down too.

00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.300

Phil: I saw that, and I know I've heard of that before too.

00:09:19.640 --> 00:09:24.620

Phil: But then, wasn't there a TV show about, or a movie about space junk janitors?

00:09:25.680 --> 00:09:33.860

Tom: Yes, there is an anime at least about it, which I have forgotten the title of, but it is an excellent show.

00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:39.180

Tom: One of the best animes of all time, I would argue.

00:09:40.260 --> 00:09:41.940

Phil: Okay, I remember that one too.

00:09:42.060 --> 00:09:46.140

Tom: And I think there's also an OVA unrelated to it as well.

00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:51.540

Tom: The name of which I can remember, which is Pat Labor or Pat LeBour.

00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:53.360

Tom: I have no idea how it's pronounced.

00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:57.060

Tom: I think that is in a similar vein as well.

00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:59.680

Phil: Pardon my ignorance, what is an OVA?

00:10:00.140 --> 00:10:03.740

Tom: An OVA is an original video animation, I believe.

00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:05.740

Tom: That's the acronym.

00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:17.200

Tom: And what it basically means is essentially a three or two or whatever episode mini-series designed for direct to video release, I believe.

00:10:18.040 --> 00:10:23.520

Phil: Okay, and actually now I do remember, it was a manga I used to buy.

00:10:25.020 --> 00:10:26.260

Phil: Gosh, I wish I could remember it.

00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.080

Phil: But yeah, it was okay, it wasn't great.

00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:32.960

Tom: Was it Planetees?

00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:37.220

Phil: Yeah, Planetees is how I pronounced it.

00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:42.440

Tom: The show is excellent, but apparently the manga was just okay, sadly.

00:10:43.420 --> 00:10:44.180

Phil: According to me.

00:10:44.180 --> 00:10:44.500

Tom: Yes.

00:10:44.520 --> 00:10:45.480

Phil: Yeah, I remember that one.

00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:51.700

Phil: God, there was a whole period of my life where I read a lot of manga, and I've completely forgotten about it until now.

00:10:53.240 --> 00:11:00.320

Phil: So what about the impact this sale is going to have on other streaming servers, on other platforms?

00:11:02.040 --> 00:11:02.980

Phil: Like Epic Games.

00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.160

Phil: I downloaded Epic Games because they were giving away, what's it called, Sludge?

00:11:08.340 --> 00:11:09.040

Phil: Sludge World?

00:11:09.260 --> 00:11:10.180

Tom: I think that's right.

00:11:10.260 --> 00:11:11.400

Tom: Sludge something or other.

00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:15.280

Phil: Yeah, I was playing that just before we started recording today.

00:11:15.300 --> 00:11:17.260

Phil: It's actually pretty okay so far.

00:11:19.300 --> 00:11:24.000

Phil: And so, but what do you think the impact of this is going to be on services like Steam?

00:11:24.020 --> 00:11:29.360

Phil: I mean, if people have access to like 1,600 games, probably 2,000 by the time this is over.

00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:33.880

Phil: Like, I could be playing this for the next four years.

00:11:35.060 --> 00:11:35.540

Phil: You know?

00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:52.640

Tom: When you look at the size of people's Steam accounts, and here's a statistic that I would love to see because we're all familiar with the famous statistic that, you know, 5% of people finish the games they play.

00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:59.620

Tom: I want a statistic on the number of people who play the games they own even once.

00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:03.140

Phil: Yeah, and you know what?

00:12:04.540 --> 00:12:11.540

Phil: Over there at Valve, they'd be able to tell you the monetary figure of money spent on games that have never been opened.

00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:15.040

Phil: And it's probably in the hundreds of millions.

00:12:15.140 --> 00:12:16.220

Tom: Billions of dollars.

00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:18.640

Phil: And how do you sleep at night?

00:12:18.680 --> 00:12:22.320

Phil: I guess, quite well on silk sheets, right?

00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:24.720

Phil: Knowing that billions of dollars.

00:12:24.740 --> 00:12:30.000

Tom: The more money you spent on games you haven't played, the better you sleep and the higher quality of your sheets.

00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:38.280

Phil: But then again, people may well ask, how can I sleep having just purchased 1600 games for five bucks?

00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:42.380

Phil: Quite well.

00:12:42.520 --> 00:12:45.060

Phil: Hey man, they could have put a higher minimum in there.

00:12:45.180 --> 00:12:48.800

Phil: I don't know why they were doing this sale anyways, probably to get more itch subscribers, but hey.

00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:52.020

Tom: It's completely out of the blue and for seemingly no reason.

00:12:52.640 --> 00:12:53.720

Phil: Mission accomplished.

00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.500

Phil: Oh, I can't stop talking about this.

00:12:56.520 --> 00:12:58.880

Phil: This might take up the whole podcast.

00:12:59.800 --> 00:13:04.040

Phil: And I'm just, anyway, get me on to another topic.

00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:06.820

Phil: I can't believe how great 2020 is turning out.

00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:11.640

Tom: Well, we have actually both finished a game on it, so we may as well talk about it.

00:13:11.660 --> 00:13:13.720

Tom: That is A Morticians Tale.

00:13:14.560 --> 00:13:17.020

Phil: Yes, I'll give you the backgrounder on this one.

00:13:17.040 --> 00:13:22.860

Phil: It was released in 2017 on Mac OS, Windows and iOS.

00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.980

Phil: And it's made by a very small team called Laundry Bear Games.

00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:32.720

Phil: I couldn't find a website for them, so I don't know if they've made anything after this, but basically it's five or six people.

00:13:33.680 --> 00:13:40.740

Phil: And as you said, it's a work simulator based on, no surprise, the work of a mortician.

00:13:41.180 --> 00:13:55.200

Phil: And it's based on, according to Wikipedia, based on the work of Caitlin Doherty, who is a mortician, and actually she has a podcast as well.

00:13:55.220 --> 00:14:02.400

Phil: So if you look up her name, D-O-U-G-H-T-Y, you'll probably find a mortician, you'll find a podcast.

00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:07.980

Phil: Very short game, it took about an hour from start to finish.

00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.660

Phil: And you view the game in a slightly isometric view.

00:14:13.180 --> 00:14:16.460

Phil: The visuals are very minimalistic.

00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:29.140

Tom: Basically, the isometric view is there when you are walking around the room in which you dress the body for either a viewing or for cremation.

00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:39.940

Tom: And also when you are at said viewing or display of an urn at the mortician's building with the family members there.

00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:52.880

Tom: And you essentially can walk around and click on them and you get a snippet of text of their thoughts and you then go and bow at the coffin or urn and then return to your room.

00:14:52.920 --> 00:15:13.080

Tom: And when you're in your room, you are reading emails and replying to the work-related email which then triggers a top-down view of your working area, which could be either a corpse laid out to be dressed.

00:15:14.300 --> 00:15:27.960

Tom: I mean, that's how it always begins and you will have to do various different things to it, depending on how the body is to be disposed of, which I don't think is the technical term that is used in the industry, but it should be.

00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:47.220

Phil: Yeah, so basically you're in an office-type environment, like a small medical office, and then when you go to actually do the work of preparing the body, it switches, if you think about the Operation Board Game, you know, basically, and then you have to, it walks you through doing these things.

00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:54.540

Phil: If you've played the Wii game or the DS game Trauma Center, which was the Japanese, yeah, Surgeon Simulator.

00:15:54.560 --> 00:16:11.080

Tom: And it does suffer somewhat from the translation from mobile phone to PC, I believe it was originally a touchscreen game, and the things you're doing basically fit perfectly a touchscreen style control.

00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:18.540

Tom: So for instance, when you were making an incision, you have to run your mouse along the line.

00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:24.580

Tom: This would obviously be much more enjoyable and interesting if it was a touchscreen.

00:16:25.020 --> 00:16:30.940

Tom: And they also didn't put in a huge amount of effort into translating it to PC.

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:40.680

Tom: I assume this was better on the touchscreen because on PC, you can actually click from dot to dot to dot when you're performing any action.

00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:42.500

Tom: So that's a little bit odd.

00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:43.840

Phil: Yeah.

00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.700

Phil: Look, in terms of the gameplay itself, it's pretty simple.

00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:56.140

Phil: And in terms of the arc of the game, I respect the fact that the pace was quite quick.

00:16:56.140 --> 00:17:00.840

Phil: I mean, basically, there was no two procedures that were the same.

00:17:01.300 --> 00:17:06.380

Phil: Usually, in a work simulator, you might do something three times, and then they'll change it to something else.

00:17:06.840 --> 00:17:07.820

Phil: So this got moving.

00:17:07.860 --> 00:17:17.000

Tom: But it still simultaneously managed to have that repetitive rhythm of a work simulator that is what makes them so gratifying.

00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:17.860

Phil: Yeah.

00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.180

Phil: So I quite quickly picked up what you do.

00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.840

Phil: The game is quite graphic in terms of going through what a mortician has to do.

00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:45.700

Phil: So they have to wash the body, shave the body, massage it to combat rigor mortis, moisturize the body, make incisions to drain the body of fluids, and then fill the body back up with, I guess it's the maldehyde, I'm just imagining.

00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.040

Phil: I know they use the actual chemical name in the thing.

00:17:50.340 --> 00:17:54.160

Phil: You know, you have to put little eyeball things in because your eyeballs sink.

00:17:54.500 --> 00:17:56.160

Tom: Eyeball caps, I believe they're cotton.

00:17:56.180 --> 00:18:03.060

Phil: Eyeball caps, you've got to put cotton wool in the mouth, then you've got to sew their mouth shut or their jaws together.

00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.080

Phil: So for an open casket, you know, the mouth's not agape.

00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:14.240

Phil: And I found that, honestly, to be very impactful because I've never...

00:18:14.260 --> 00:18:16.920

Tom: I have the same reaction to Trauma Center as well.

00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:24.840

Phil: Yeah, with Trauma Center, you were working to help or save someone.

00:18:25.340 --> 00:18:39.840

Phil: But in this, you have to go through all this graphic process for nothing more than to, you know, prepare a body so that it can be displayed or be buried or cremated.

00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:53.580

Phil: So, you know, one of the aspects of cremation is, like the cremulator, we won't spoil it here, but the fact that they use those devices was quite a surprise to me.

00:18:53.620 --> 00:18:54.780

Tom: You weren't familiar with this?

00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:58.300

Phil: No, I wasn't familiar with any aspect of what a mortician does.

00:18:58.320 --> 00:18:58.980

Phil: Interesting.

00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:00.300

Phil: No, no.

00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:12.440

Phil: And I think that if you're going into this game, A Mortician's Tale, then you, and you don't, just like me, you don't know anything about what a mortician does, it's quite impactful.

00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:24.700

Phil: So it would have had more of an impact on me than it would have you, obviously, because it's really telling you what a mortician does.

00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:25.000

Tom: Yep.

00:19:25.340 --> 00:19:27.440

Tom: And it does an exceptionally good job of it.

00:19:28.520 --> 00:19:43.260

Tom: Which I, even if you know how a lot of these things work, it's very, it's nevertheless, I think, an impactful experience when you are being involved in it in the way that you are in the game.

00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:53.520

Phil: And even, you know, to me it was like, oh gosh, well, you know, I'm definitely going to want to be cremated because I don't want someone to have to go through all this hassle, you know.

00:19:54.460 --> 00:20:07.480

Phil: And I won't spoil it, but you know, there's certain things that have to do with cremation, you know, like if you've got a medical apparatus in your body, you know, that sort of thing, you know, the mortician's responsible for dealing with that, not a doctor.

00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:11.840

Phil: Like a doctor's not wasting his or her time on your dead body.

00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:18.800

Phil: So, yeah, so now I thought it wrapped up quite abruptly.

00:20:18.820 --> 00:20:25.080

Tom: Well, I think the whole framing of the narrative was rather awkward.

00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:35.360

Tom: It would probably have been more interesting if it was purely a educational and meditative experience.

00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:43.900

Tom: The subplot about corporations and small businesses was rather on the nose.

00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:47.220

Phil: Yeah, it certainly was.

00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:50.180

Tom: It could well have been worked into the game better.

00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:58.440

Tom: I'm not against that being the theme of a mortician based game, but it felt rather shoehorned in, to say the least.

00:20:58.540 --> 00:21:03.940

Tom: And I don't think it was the sort of game that really needed a story arc like that to it.

00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:22.300

Tom: And certainly the emails between your workmates and your friends were, I think, interesting enough to give the game a strong narrative without having to stick a more traditional sort of plot on it as well.

00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:26.240

Phil: The writer was Caitlin Tremblay.

00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:31.440

Phil: It's very rare that we get to attribute a single writer to a game, so we may as well give her credit there.

00:21:32.100 --> 00:21:35.060

Phil: And it's good to have a game that wasn't written by committee.

00:21:36.060 --> 00:21:41.880

Phil: But yeah, I mean, ultimately, to me, I would have liked this game to probably be at least three hours long.

00:21:43.060 --> 00:21:53.760

Phil: And I think that the gameplay elements, there could have been more to it, but what was there was perfect for a work simulator and something I'd absolutely recommend.

00:21:54.840 --> 00:22:10.480

Tom: I think it worked well in its short length, particularly as a slice of life thing with the emails and also as a meditation on death through the lens of a mortician.

00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:34.860

Tom: But if they were going to have the plot style story occurring simultaneously, it could well have benefited from being a bit longer because there would have been a better opportunity to flesh out the monetary struggles of the owner of the business, for instance, as a lead up to the sale of it and all that sort of thing.

00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:36.240

Phil: Yeah.

00:22:36.540 --> 00:22:44.600

Phil: And there was allusions in the story to upselling or selling funeral services and things like that.

00:22:44.860 --> 00:22:48.420

Phil: If they had added that as a gameplay element, that would have been enjoyable.

00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:59.460

Phil: When the game came to its abrupt end and I found myself in a different room, I thought, oh, yeah, okay, great, now we're going to get into a different kind of management type work simulator.

00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:10.780

Tom: Well, for instance, given the complete change in the style of body disposal, it would have been interesting for it to have actually had you play out the green park burial.

00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:19.220

Phil: Right, yes, I think that I was expecting something there and it never came and that was disappointing.

00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:24.320

Phil: Look, if this game was well received, it got good reviews when it came out.

00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:29.760

Phil: I think from a concept, I'd give the game probably eight and a half.

00:23:29.780 --> 00:23:32.040

Phil: From a gameplay perspective, I'd give it a six.

00:23:32.360 --> 00:23:36.160

Phil: From a value, I paid a third of a penny for it.

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:43.840

Phil: I did the math, 500 pennies divided by 1600 games gives you 0.31 of a cent.

00:23:44.800 --> 00:23:46.340

Tom: I think that's a 10 out of 10.

00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:48.140

Phil: It's a 10 out of 10 for value.

00:23:48.500 --> 00:24:02.220

Phil: And certainly, if I'm walking away from a game, saying I wanted more from it in terms of, hey, this could have been three times longer, I would have enjoyed it, that's a great sign.

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:03.840

Phil: I don't know about Laundry Bear Games.

00:24:03.860 --> 00:24:05.680

Phil: I hope they've gone on to do more.

00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:13.040

Phil: And certainly just one of the great outcomes of this itch.io sale.

00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:24.000

Tom: And a lot of people pointed out that of the 1,600 or 700 games, a lot of it is random shit.

00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:28.520

Tom: But for a $5 bundle, I want as much random shit in it as possible.

00:24:29.100 --> 00:24:34.940

Tom: I was on the edge of getting Night of the Consumers, for instance.

00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:53.000

Tom: And many other games, no doubt, I've seen there that were cheap that I was considering getting, but were still sort of, well, it's $2, but is it really going to be worth $2 when you consider Humble Bundle's lowest level, for instance, is often $1.50.

00:24:53.020 --> 00:25:01.060

Tom: To have a range of random stuff that you would not be exposed to otherwise to me is amazing.

00:25:01.100 --> 00:25:03.320

Tom: And the greatest value of this bundle.

00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:10.860

Tom: But there's no way either of us would have played Morticians Tale without this bundle.

00:25:11.540 --> 00:25:11.800

Phil: No.

00:25:11.860 --> 00:25:14.460

Phil: And we've just talked about it for 10 minutes or whatever.

00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:17.280

Phil: And, you know, it's just great.

00:25:17.300 --> 00:25:23.400

Phil: I hope that you and I over the weeks just keep going backwards and forwards with hey, have you played this?

00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:24.340

Phil: Hey, have you played that?

00:25:24.360 --> 00:25:28.840

Phil: Because I can see playing one of these, you know, every other day sort of thing.

00:25:28.860 --> 00:25:29.560

Phil: Yep.

00:25:29.660 --> 00:25:31.400

Phil: Certainly it depends on the length of the game.

00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:50.160

Tom: And just before we move on from The Morticians Tale, the last thing I do have to add is one of the amusing aspects of the email thing is you get a newsletter from, designed for people working in the death industry, which I also believe is not the technical term, but it should be.

00:25:51.580 --> 00:25:56.400

Tom: And it references, refers to, sorry, various traditional burial types.

00:25:56.420 --> 00:26:08.500

Tom: And it includes quite a lot of them, but I was disappointing that it did not include what is a universal and often ignored traditional burial type, which is that of the mass grave.

00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:24.020

Tom: There was no reference to mass grave anywhere, and I found that to be very disappointing because of all the cultural burial practices in the world, the mass grave is probably the greatest sign of our universal and shared humanity.

00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:28.020

Phil: Well, that's a take.

00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:37.880

Phil: Just to close out the itch.io, maybe a game that we can both plan on playing is, as I said, Quadrilateral Cowboy.

00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:40.020

Tom: Yeah, I believe you have that on Steam.

00:26:40.760 --> 00:26:42.740

Phil: Yeah, I do, but now I've got it on itch.io.

00:26:42.760 --> 00:26:44.300

Tom: Which is even better, DRM free.

00:26:44.320 --> 00:26:46.040

Phil: Yep, yep.

00:26:46.060 --> 00:26:48.780

Phil: But this is made by the 40 Flights of Loving People.

00:26:50.080 --> 00:26:52.480

Phil: Blendo Games.

00:26:52.580 --> 00:26:54.280

Phil: So definitely want to get into that one.

00:26:54.340 --> 00:27:01.000

Phil: So, all right, so itch.io, itch.io, farewell.

00:27:01.060 --> 00:27:04.220

Phil: That's the last time we'll talk about it today, I think.

00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:16.500

Phil: Before we move on to the game that you most want to talk about, I do want to thank you for your recommendation of the Ghana Mini, the G-A-N-A Mini.

00:27:18.280 --> 00:27:19.940

Tom: Africa's finest export.

00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:23.520

Phil: Yeah.

00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:25.460

Phil: I picked one up.

00:27:25.600 --> 00:27:27.320

Phil: They're cheaper on Amazon than on eBay.

00:27:27.340 --> 00:27:30.360

Phil: They're twice the price on eBay, so obviously someone's profiteering.

00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:34.980

Phil: But it was less than 15 bucks on Amazon, and it's arriving on Monday.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:37.920

Phil: I'm really excited to see...

00:27:37.940 --> 00:27:46.180

Phil: I think I'm going to try it on a Playstation 1 first, and then see how we go from there, but I'm going to have to get another HDMI hub.

00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.560

Phil: I currently have 3 of them daisy chained.

00:27:50.020 --> 00:27:52.660

Phil: And I'm all out of HDMI inputs now.

00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.680

Phil: I think I've got 12 going into that television.

00:27:55.280 --> 00:27:59.900

Phil: So I do thank you for that recommendation very much.

00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:02.780

Tom: I hope it's as good for you as it is for me.

00:28:02.800 --> 00:28:03.820

Phil: Yeah, it looks amazing.

00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:08.720

Phil: Have you been able to play any SNES games since you were last time?

00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:11.660

Tom: I have been playing a little bit of Super Mario Brothers.

00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.160

Phil: And what world are you up to?

00:28:14.180 --> 00:28:17.200

Tom: I'm up to the second world.

00:28:17.420 --> 00:28:19.720

Phil: That would be number two, okay.

00:28:19.760 --> 00:28:20.940

Phil: Yes.

00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:22.500

Phil: Yeah, it's a good game, good audio.

00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.580

Phil: Now what game is it that you want to talk to us about?

00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:38.320

Tom: Well, we may as well go to what is probably the most timely game of the moment, at least in terms of interest.

00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:40.660

Tom: And that is actually Streets of Rage 4.

00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:53.980

Tom: And I've only just started Streets of Rage 4, but I bring it up because I'm sure we all recall that I reviewed Streets of Rage Neon, I think it was called something like that.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.220

Phil: Oh, me too, yeah.

00:28:55.740 --> 00:29:25.320

Tom: Yep, and that was okay, but it didn't really live up to the neon, in spite of its title, bombast of at least Streets of Rage 2, which I don't put on the same level, controversially, as the likes of Golden Axe, because Golden Axe is perhaps the funniest game ever, with the exception of Heavy Rain, but this Streets of Rage 4 is an amazing first impression.

00:29:26.060 --> 00:29:37.720

Tom: First of all, the graphics are like a high-fidelity, hand-drawn version of what the iconic Streets of Rage 2 looks like.

00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:48.820

Tom: The sound is bombastic, to repeat the same word, in the perfect, grimy, yet ridiculous and corny way.

00:29:48.860 --> 00:29:52.680

Tom: It is an amazing first impression that it has.

00:29:52.700 --> 00:29:55.420

Phil: A bit of trivia for you.

00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.780

Phil: So Streets of Rage Neon, which I love.

00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:00.240

Phil: I think it has a great soundtrack.

00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:02.160

Phil: I looked at it the other day.

00:30:02.180 --> 00:30:07.140

Phil: I played 15 hours of that at some point in my life, which is a lot.

00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:08.500

Tom: I assume you mastered it.

00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:10.960

Phil: No, I got past the second world.

00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:17.840

Phil: But it was developed by WayForward, which is a wonderful developer that did most...

00:30:17.860 --> 00:30:19.880

Tom: That explains why it was so mediocre.

00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:28.020

Phil: Well, you're going to eat your words there, because if I remember my history correctly, it was the guys who went on to make Shovel Knight.

00:30:28.020 --> 00:30:32.740

Phil: That was the last game that they worked on together as a team when they were at WayForward.

00:30:32.840 --> 00:30:36.380

Phil: And then they went out and started Yacht Club Games to make Shovel Knight.

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.540

Tom: Shovel Knight is good, but I wouldn't say wonderful.

00:30:40.560 --> 00:30:43.800

Phil: Yeah, I still haven't beaten that either.

00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:52.660

Phil: But I'll tell you what is wonderful about Shovel Knight is all that downloadable content, they keep pumping it out for free, even on the Wii U.

00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:58.040

Phil: I have the Wii U version, and I put it in the other day, and there's a massive download to give you...

00:30:58.380 --> 00:31:07.920

Phil: If you own the original game on the original whatever, they give you all of the DLC that they've created since then, and same on Steam as well.

00:31:08.100 --> 00:31:10.820

Phil: But anyway, Streets of Rage 4...

00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:12.780

Phil: So the graphics is...

00:31:13.580 --> 00:31:21.400

Phil: Is it close to what it would have been like, or is it just inspired by the Streets of Rage 2?

00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:24.820

Tom: Well, it's not pixelated, if that's what you mean.

00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:25.660

Phil: Okay, so is...

00:31:25.760 --> 00:31:27.240

Phil: Okay, I'm looking at video now.

00:31:27.260 --> 00:31:33.060

Tom: As I said, it's like a hand-drawn, unpixelated version of the original.

00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:34.180

Tom: It looks amazing.

00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:58.220

Tom: It's actually not dissimilar to the translation in style to the Red Alert remaster that was recently released, where somehow they managed to capture the vibe of a very pixelated graphic style, which often does not happen in modern upgrades with graphic styles.

00:31:58.540 --> 00:32:00.880

Phil: Okay, I'm looking at the images now, so...

00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:03.740

Tom: It doesn't look that good not in motion.

00:32:03.820 --> 00:32:05.320

Tom: In motion, it is amazing.

00:32:06.520 --> 00:32:11.460

Phil: I guess a shorthand would be, it's kind of like Street Fighter 4.

00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:16.480

Tom: Yeah, Street Fighter 4 and 5, the reboots of them.

00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:27.380

Tom: I actually played a little Street Fighter 5 recently, and I went from thinking this is perhaps the ugliest game ever made to thinking it looks exceptionally good.

00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:29.820

Tom: So yes, that is a great analogy.

00:32:30.060 --> 00:32:34.880

Phil: So you're playing this on PC with a Xbox controller or a Playstation controller?

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:38.840

Tom: With a PS4 controller on Xbox Games Pass.

00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:41.620

Phil: Okay, so it's part of Games Pass right now?

00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:42.680

Tom: Correct, yes.

00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:43.120

Phil: Wow.

00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:45.060

Phil: It looks great.

00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:52.120

Tom: It does, and I will definitely be continuing with it, but I have barely played it, so I don't have much more to say on that.

00:32:52.140 --> 00:33:32.600

Tom: Before we move on to Games Pass, I have to mention I was rather refusive with my praise of it in the previous episode, but I would just like to remind listeners that it is made by Microsoft, so while it is exceptional value for money in terms of allowing you to play a wide variety of great games, as a platform, it is worse than Steam was when Steam first came out, and not even in the same level as the original Steam, which for anyone who used Steam at the beginning was often a nightmare with lots of crashing and difficulty in launching games.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:44.200

Tom: As I'm sure everyone knows, I've been playing Metro Exodus, and it's taken me a long time to be playing through it.

00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:50.020

Tom: First of all, due to a technical problem that is the fault of the developers themselves.

00:33:50.420 --> 00:34:08.820

Tom: But my playthrough was completely stopped recently because when I think they recently released the Xbox Games Pass, sorry, the Xbox app, and this resulted in a lot of people being unable to launch Metro Exodus anymore.

00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:22.060

Tom: And some people were able to launch it by re-downloading it, but when you re-download it, after about literally one second, the download stops and you just have the option to install it again.

00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:37.540

Tom: To get around this, you had to click Download, then in this literal one second time frame, click the X to cancel the download, and then click OK in one second to stop the download.

00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:42.860

Tom: Then when you click Install again, it would start to download properly.

00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:48.460

Tom: This allowed some people who had this problem to play it.

00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:56.000

Tom: When I did this, it then started downloading to, I think it made it to 267 MB and then froze.

00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:15.080

Tom: This did, however, allow me to uninstall it, whereas even though the Microsoft concluded it wasn't installed, and I had uninstalled it using the uninstall technology in Windows itself and the control panel, it was still installed.

00:35:15.100 --> 00:35:39.640

Tom: So until I had used my ninja-like iHand coordination ability to be able to cancel the installation and therefore actually uninstall the game, I had 100 GB of otherwise completely inaccessible space being used up because Microsoft likes to do things its own way.

00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:41.160

Phil: It's a good thing you're a gamer.

00:35:42.620 --> 00:35:43.000

Tom: Yes.

00:35:44.180 --> 00:35:45.960

Phil: Otherwise you wouldn't have those cat-like reflexes.

00:35:45.980 --> 00:35:50.020

Tom: That's right, it would have permanently used up 100 GB.

00:35:50.500 --> 00:35:52.580

Phil: I disagree, I think Microsoft's awesome.

00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.940

Phil: And I've been playing, I want you to, you know, now that itch.io is here...

00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:02.240

Tom: They make a good word processor, but that's basically it.

00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:03.100

Phil: It's incredible.

00:36:03.500 --> 00:36:06.420

Tom: And they deserve full credit for their word processors.

00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:10.760

Tom: But outside of their word processors, I'm not so sure.

00:36:11.300 --> 00:36:22.080

Phil: While you're using Game Pass, I do want you to consider downloading Crackdown 3, because I'm fairly far along in it, so it would be interesting to get your take on it.

00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:23.900

Phil: It is an enjoyable enough game.

00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.580

Phil: And have you played any of the prior Crackdowns?

00:36:28.100 --> 00:36:29.980

Tom: No, I have not played any Crackdown.

00:36:30.120 --> 00:36:33.240

Tom: It always looked rather uninteresting and uninspired.

00:36:33.260 --> 00:36:38.500

Phil: Yeah, it's basically an arena fighter set in an open world setting.

00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:45.340

Phil: And your skills, there's five different skills, and you develop them the more you play in a certain style.

00:36:45.720 --> 00:36:50.540

Phil: So if you do a lot of melee, your physical strength increases.

00:36:50.540 --> 00:36:52.500

Phil: If you do a lot of shooting, your shooting increases.

00:36:52.520 --> 00:36:55.440

Phil: If you do a lot of driving, your driving skills increase.

00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.340

Phil: And you basically, yeah.

00:36:58.680 --> 00:37:04.000

Phil: It's, I guess, probably just watch a couple of videos of it to see if it's something that you'd be interested in.

00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:08.240

Phil: And I'll probably talk about it later on at another stage.

00:37:09.260 --> 00:37:11.760

Phil: So is that really all you've got to say about Streets of Rage 4?

00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:12.180

Phil: I mean...

00:37:13.460 --> 00:37:14.000

Tom: Yes, it is.

00:37:14.020 --> 00:37:16.440

Tom: Those are my very early first impressions.

00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.600

Phil: You know, it's been a long time since we've played the game Gun or No Gun.

00:37:22.620 --> 00:37:23.400

Phil: Do you remember this game?

00:37:24.600 --> 00:37:25.180

Tom: Yes, I do.

00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:25.680

Phil: You do?

00:37:25.680 --> 00:37:29.760

Phil: Where basically I give you the name of a game and you tell me whether there's a gun on the cover?

00:37:31.680 --> 00:37:35.220

Phil: I've got 12 Xbox games in front of me that I grabbed at random.

00:37:36.100 --> 00:37:38.740

Phil: They are the H through K section.

00:37:39.140 --> 00:37:44.580

Phil: You would be surprised at how few games start with the letter H, I, J and K.

00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:51.300

Phil: So I'll just give you the name of the game and then tell me if there's a weapon on the front or an act of violence.

00:37:51.720 --> 00:37:53.480

Phil: And then I'll tell you whether you're right or wrong.

00:37:53.540 --> 00:37:54.100

Phil: Now, do you have a pen?

00:37:54.120 --> 00:38:01.180

Phil: Because you're going to have to keep score because there's a prize if you get more than 50% of these right.

00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:05.660

Tom: I'm not sure I want the sort of prizes you give out, but I'm ready.

00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:07.820

Phil: Okay, The Simpsons, hit or run?

00:38:10.140 --> 00:38:11.960

Tom: I partially remember the cover.

00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:14.060

Tom: I'm going to say definitely no gun.

00:38:14.620 --> 00:38:15.140

Phil: No gun?

00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:18.860

Phil: But is there an act of violence or a weapon on the cover?

00:38:19.180 --> 00:38:19.760

Phil: It's gun?

00:38:20.100 --> 00:38:21.200

Tom: I think there's a rake.

00:38:21.560 --> 00:38:25.480

Tom: There's something like a rake on the cover, so there is a weapon on the cover, I believe.

00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:26.800

Phil: Okay, that is a no.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.940

Phil: That is a non-violent game cover.

00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:32.760

Tom: I'm going to have to be pedantic here, though.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:37.600

Tom: I'm going to have to be pedantic here, because...

00:38:38.120 --> 00:38:39.500

Phil: Are you looking up the cover?

00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:41.120

Tom: Yes.

00:38:41.140 --> 00:38:42.260

Tom: You're not allowed to cheat.

00:38:43.460 --> 00:38:46.620

Tom: It's not cheating if we just said what the game was.

00:38:46.720 --> 00:38:47.820

Phil: The Simpsons Hit and Run.

00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:55.580

Tom: Yes, let me just point out here that there is a tentacle coming out of the sewer...

00:38:55.640 --> 00:38:56.670

Phil: Yes...

00:38:56.670 --> 00:38:56.670

Tom: .

00:38:56.670 --> 00:38:59.340

Tom: spraying some sort of acid.

00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:01.500

Tom: That is an act of violence.

00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:02.880

Phil: There's also...

00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:06.040

Phil: There's also a decapitation of a statue.

00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:07.800

Tom: Yes.

00:39:08.560 --> 00:39:09.280

Phil: So you...

00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:12.640

Tom: So I'm sorry, but that's a yes.

00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:13.560

Tom: I was correct.

00:39:13.580 --> 00:39:14.260

Phil: You are correct.

00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:17.240

Phil: All right, the next game, worst game ever made, Hitman Contracts.

00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:20.020

Phil: No typing.

00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:20.520

Tom: There's gun.

00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:21.720

Phil: Gun, yes, correct.

00:39:22.940 --> 00:39:23.960

Phil: Hulk Ultimate...

00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:25.140

Tom: You told me to keep score.

00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:26.420

Phil: I'm keeping score.

00:39:26.780 --> 00:39:28.360

Phil: Hulk Ultimate Destruction.

00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:31.660

Tom: No gun.

00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:36.200

Tom: I'm going to go with act of violence.

00:39:36.220 --> 00:39:36.660

Phil: Correct.

00:39:37.520 --> 00:39:38.480

Phil: Have you ever played that game?

00:39:39.700 --> 00:39:40.240

Tom: No, I haven't.

00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:41.120

Phil: It's apparently pretty good.

00:39:42.160 --> 00:39:44.000

Phil: It looks fun.

00:39:44.020 --> 00:39:45.140

Phil: Hunter The Reckoning.

00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:49.400

Tom: Yes, gun slash crossbow thing.

00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:50.220

Phil: Exactly.

00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:52.220

Phil: Wow, you know you're a Hunter The Reckoning cover.

00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:56.520

Phil: That was developed by Danger High Voltage Software.

00:39:56.540 --> 00:39:59.480

Phil: Do you know what other notable game they play?

00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:03.900

Phil: What notable game on the Wii did they develop for an extra point?

00:40:06.660 --> 00:40:07.980

Tom: Was it The Conduit?

00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:08.580

Phil: Wow.

00:40:08.900 --> 00:40:09.620

Phil: Shit, man.

00:40:10.420 --> 00:40:11.520

Phil: You should get paid for this.

00:40:13.100 --> 00:40:17.140

Phil: Eye Ninja, which is eye dash ninja, not eye common ninja.

00:40:17.140 --> 00:40:20.000

Phil: It's not like, you know, eye ninja.

00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:23.620

Tom: No gun.

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.840

Tom: I'm not sure if I'm familiar with this game.

00:40:26.860 --> 00:40:33.380

Tom: I'm going to say no gun and maybe some shurikens, but no act of violence.

00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:37.300

Phil: There are three shurikens and a large samurai sword.

00:40:39.040 --> 00:40:41.920

Phil: Actually, ninjas don't use samurai swords, do they?

00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:43.340

Phil: Katana.

00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:46.020

Tom: I believe samurais use samurai swords.

00:40:46.040 --> 00:40:47.360

Phil: So ninjas must use katanas.

00:40:48.500 --> 00:40:52.820

Phil: It's a kiddie platformer game with really good graphics, as I recall.

00:40:55.380 --> 00:40:58.380

Phil: Indigo Prophecy, known as Fahrenheit in some territories.

00:41:01.060 --> 00:41:03.880

Tom: I believe there is definitely no gun on the cover.

00:41:04.020 --> 00:41:06.600

Tom: If there was a weapon, it would be the knife.

00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:21.540

Tom: And I am going to go with the knife is there, because I can't remember if it is merely him in some sort of meditative stance, or him also looking down at the bloody knife, wondering what he's done.

00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:25.960

Tom: And given that's the most melodramatic and ridiculous possibility, I'm going to go with knife.

00:41:26.060 --> 00:41:29.720

Phil: Wow, you actually just exactly described the cover of that game.

00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:30.920

Phil: So you are correct.

00:41:30.940 --> 00:41:32.380

Phil: You're currently seven out of seven.

00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:34.280

Phil: I'm going to speed this up a little bit.

00:41:34.300 --> 00:41:36.400

Phil: Deus Ex, Invisible War.

00:41:38.540 --> 00:41:42.360

Tom: That's actually got a similar cover to Fahrenheit.

00:41:44.640 --> 00:41:46.560

Tom: Wait, no, no, that's the second one, right?

00:41:46.580 --> 00:41:46.800

Phil: Yes.

00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:49.000

Tom: I was thinking of Mankind Divided.

00:41:50.040 --> 00:41:51.300

Tom: Now that's more difficult.

00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:55.400

Tom: I am going to say no gun.

00:41:55.680 --> 00:42:01.720

Tom: There's definitely no act of violence, but I'm going to say no gun, but that may be wrong, but I'm sticking with that.

00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:03.380

Tom: But there's certainly sunglasses.

00:42:03.580 --> 00:42:05.100

Phil: No, no sunglasses.

00:42:05.120 --> 00:42:07.200

Phil: This is amazing.

00:42:07.220 --> 00:42:11.460

Phil: Yes, there's a massive Mako gun or Mako pistol.

00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:16.100

Phil: It probably takes up 25% of the front cover, and it's pointing at us.

00:42:16.780 --> 00:42:24.440

Phil: Actually, there's some sort of rule that they can't have the gun pointing at you, I think, in Europe, so it's kind of pointing down to the side, but it's there.

00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:26.860

Phil: So that's the first one you've gotten wrong.

00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:28.420

Phil: Iron Phoenix.

00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:29.800

Tom: I got that very wrong indeed.

00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.120

Phil: Sega's Iron Phoenix.

00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:34.680

Phil: It was developed by Sega Sammy.

00:42:38.220 --> 00:42:40.140

Tom: I have no idea what this game is.

00:42:40.200 --> 00:42:43.600

Phil: It's the first ever 16-player online fighting game.

00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:47.240

Phil: The most innovative game of E3, according to Team Xbox.

00:42:48.600 --> 00:42:50.220

Tom: I'm going to go with Act of Violence.

00:42:50.740 --> 00:42:54.240

Phil: There are massive acts of violence and massive swords and weapons.

00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:56.640

Phil: So you are correct.

00:42:58.660 --> 00:42:59.300

Phil: Almost done.

00:42:59.580 --> 00:43:02.480

Phil: Jade Empire from Bioware.

00:43:03.540 --> 00:43:04.240

Tom: No gun.

00:43:06.980 --> 00:43:11.420

Tom: I think maybe some sort of dagger or something to that effect.

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:15.640

Tom: And I do not recall there being an act of violence, but I could well be wrong.

00:43:16.020 --> 00:43:19.260

Tom: And there are multiple covers for this game, I believe, in any case.

00:43:19.300 --> 00:43:23.880

Phil: Yeah, I'm holding the limited edition and there is a massive sword, a flaming sword.

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:27.160

Phil: It is a horrible cover, comically bad.

00:43:27.620 --> 00:43:31.520

Phil: Okay, Jet Set Radio Future.

00:43:34.180 --> 00:43:49.540

Tom: Well, now this is a controversial thing because some people, for some reason, believe that a spray paint can, could be a weapon and that spray painting something could be an act of violence.

00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:52.400

Tom: So we'll have to define our terms here.

00:43:52.420 --> 00:43:56.360

Phil: I don't think it's a weapon.

00:43:56.380 --> 00:44:00.180

Phil: I don't think for the purposes of this, we will say it's not a weapon.

00:44:00.660 --> 00:44:02.400

Tom: Okay, then there is no weapon.

00:44:05.180 --> 00:44:14.120

Tom: And I also will say no act of violence because I would add that spray painting something.

00:44:14.140 --> 00:44:19.040

Tom: Unless you're spray painting a person, which is not occurring on the cover, is not an act of violence.

00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:22.860

Phil: And the last game, this is a tough one.

00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:28.920

Phil: It's from Avalanche Studios, published by Eidos, later got bought out by Square.

00:44:28.940 --> 00:44:34.280

Phil: It's rated M for Mature, and a game you're probably familiar with, Just Cause.

00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:41.600

Tom: I am indeed familiar with Just Cause, and I believe there is a gun on that cover.

00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:44.380

Phil: Incredibly not.

00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:47.880

Phil: There is a bullet hole.

00:44:49.940 --> 00:44:54.080

Phil: So I'll let you decide if that counts.

00:44:54.100 --> 00:44:55.460

Phil: But yeah, incredibly there's not a gun.

00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:59.280

Tom: Given my success throughout the rest of the list, I'll put that down as a failure.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:05.280

Phil: Okay, well, out of those games, you've got 10 right and 2 wrong.

00:45:05.560 --> 00:45:07.780

Phil: So congratulations.

00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:08.800

Phil: You know your covers, man.

00:45:08.820 --> 00:45:11.600

Phil: You know your 2000s era games.

00:45:11.620 --> 00:45:14.200

Phil: That's pretty impressive.

00:45:14.220 --> 00:45:16.740

Phil: What's my prize?

00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:20.100

Phil: I am going to share a game with you on itch.io.

00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.380

Phil: You can pick from one of 1600 games available.

00:45:25.240 --> 00:45:26.960

Phil: So what's my prize?

00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:31.000

Phil: Is there any game in that stack that you played?

00:45:31.020 --> 00:45:31.880

Phil: Simpsons Hit and Run?

00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:34.140

Tom: I've played that briefly, yes.

00:45:35.240 --> 00:45:36.920

Phil: The Horrible Hitman Contracts game?

00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:37.360

Phil: I don't know.

00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:40.220

Tom: I think I have played a tiny bit of that as well.

00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:43.940

Tom: I've played a tiny bit of Deus Ex.

00:45:44.040 --> 00:45:49.880

Tom: I have played and completed to a high level at that Jade Empire.

00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:51.340

Phil: Really?

00:45:51.540 --> 00:45:51.800

Tom: Yep.

00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:55.880

Tom: That I would put down as probably my favourite Bioware game.

00:45:57.120 --> 00:46:05.080

Phil: Well, that one's backward compatible with the Xbox One, so I will put that in and install it, because I remember falling off that game.

00:46:06.540 --> 00:46:11.700

Tom: Like all other Bioware games, it has an absolutely awful opening.

00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:13.100

Phil: Yeah.

00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:14.600

Phil: It's not great.

00:46:15.020 --> 00:46:16.480

Phil: Anyway, sorry to spring that on you.

00:46:17.060 --> 00:46:20.540

Phil: There was some other news as well as Gun or No Gun.

00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:34.720

Phil: Yesterday in Australia Time Friday, Sony had their massive reveal where they showed 37 games that were playable on Playstation 5 software, and of course they revealed the hardware.

00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:40.520

Phil: There's an old digital version and a traditional disc-based version.

00:46:41.240 --> 00:46:43.360

Phil: Obviously everyone's seen it at this point.

00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:45.920

Phil: What did you think about the design of the console?

00:46:46.240 --> 00:47:09.580

Tom: Well, I was very pleased that someone at Sony was listening to my description of a double banana style console, and I think that's the closest with the sort of futuristic industrial look that they were going for, that you can get to a double banana motif.

00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:23.400

Tom: And I might add, if anyone thinks that's a ridiculous claim, I will point out the pretty much exact banana silhouette painted on the controller in its double colour style.

00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:30.420

Tom: So I think that's surely the most influential thing we've done on our podcast.

00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:37.900

Tom: We've had massive effects on the podcast movement in gaming as a whole, where consoles have been plagiarised.

00:47:38.420 --> 00:47:54.720

Tom: But I think directly influencing the design of a major console is beyond anything we could have imagined when we began.

00:47:55.680 --> 00:47:59.960

Phil: I agree, this probably is the most consequential thing we've done.

00:48:00.340 --> 00:48:05.360

Phil: It's particularly impressive that they were able to get the industrial design done in a week.

00:48:06.980 --> 00:48:09.120

Phil: After hearing our show, it is amazing.

00:48:10.060 --> 00:48:16.580

Phil: You've got to wonder if this is a bull shot, and this is just renders, because there's no way they could have fabbed it up in that time.

00:48:17.860 --> 00:48:18.720

Phil: I like the look of it.

00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:21.080

Phil: It looks like a piece of sushi.

00:48:22.420 --> 00:48:24.460

Phil: I'm not a big fan of the look of the controller.

00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:26.380

Phil: I'd like a monochrome controller.

00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:35.520

Phil: But the actual look of the console itself, if laid horizontally, I don't really have an issue with.

00:48:35.540 --> 00:48:36.340

Phil: I think it's okay.

00:48:37.420 --> 00:48:39.940

Tom: I think horizontally it looks fine.

00:48:40.180 --> 00:48:49.620

Tom: Vertically, it looks too much like a bad version of an extravagant PC case.

00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:57.700

Tom: If it had more RGB to it, it could possibly pull off that ridiculous look.

00:48:58.120 --> 00:49:01.660

Tom: But there's clearly not enough RGB for that to work vertically.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.000

Phil: Now, what do you think about the Xbox's design?

00:49:09.540 --> 00:49:10.820

Phil: Compare and contrast.

00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:12.480

Phil: You've seen that, obviously.

00:49:12.500 --> 00:49:25.240

Phil: It's a big rectangle with a concave top to it, which I think is evocative of the inhale design element of the 360.

00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:27.660

Phil: You remember that they said, oh, it's like an inhale.

00:49:28.900 --> 00:49:31.160

Phil: It has like a dip in the top of it.

00:49:31.180 --> 00:49:32.540

Phil: I think it's quite attractive.

00:49:32.660 --> 00:49:40.580

Tom: I think the Xbox Series X, at least vertically, blows the PS5 out of the water.

00:49:41.740 --> 00:49:42.700

Phil: Yeah, vertically, yeah.

00:49:43.040 --> 00:49:51.560

Tom: Yeah, it is still very much, I suppose, it looks sort of like those spy devices people put in homes.

00:49:53.940 --> 00:50:01.860

Tom: I'm not sure what their other purpose is other than to give information for advertising analytics, but you know what I'm talking about.

00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:05.540

Phil: Oh, the talking, yeah, the microphones, yeah.

00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:06.500

Tom: Yes.

00:50:06.660 --> 00:50:09.080

Phil: Yeah, the spying devices, yeah.

00:50:09.120 --> 00:50:09.520

Tom: Exactly.

00:50:09.540 --> 00:50:10.060

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

00:50:10.600 --> 00:50:12.000

Phil: You're right, but it's bigger than that.

00:50:12.020 --> 00:50:26.380

Tom: That's the closest design thing it looks like, but it has its own thing going on with the perforated top, which makes it stand out, and the vertical line looks really good too.

00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.320

Tom: I think that's on a level of its own.

00:50:28.340 --> 00:50:40.120

Tom: That's probably of the recent consoles perhaps going as far back as to maybe the original Wii and PS2.

00:50:40.140 --> 00:50:46.720

Tom: I think that's probably the most striking console design since then, arguably.

00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:50.640

Phil: Yeah, gotta leave Switch out of it because it's its own thing.

00:50:50.660 --> 00:50:52.320

Phil: It's really just a handheld in a dock.

00:50:53.200 --> 00:51:04.520

Phil: Not to denigrate the system itself, it's probably my favorite system right now, but it also, the Xbox could just, like I think it, if you set it horizontally, it could just look like a woofer.

00:51:04.720 --> 00:51:07.900

Phil: Actually, even in its vertical stance, it could just look like a woofer.

00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:09.940

Phil: But I like it.

00:51:09.940 --> 00:51:13.620

Phil: I think it really goes well with the Xbox branding of, you know.

00:51:14.120 --> 00:51:44.660

Tom: And with the current futuristic nostalgia design that is popular wherever there is metal that can be melted into a certain shape that's going on today, I think the Xbox Series X, where it basically looks like a Blade Runner skyscraper or something like that, is much better than the 1950s science fiction fantasy art throwbacks that the PS5 would fit into that are all over the place now.

00:51:44.760 --> 00:52:00.260

Tom: And the only other design that stands out as much as the Xbox Series X in the current futuristic fashion that I can think of is the Tesla Cybertruck by well-renowned pedophile...

00:52:01.180 --> 00:52:01.960

Phil: He's not.

00:52:02.080 --> 00:52:03.560

Phil: He accused the other guy of it.

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:05.020

Tom: He is a pedophile.

00:52:05.420 --> 00:52:06.300

Phil: You're not saying that.

00:52:06.660 --> 00:52:07.380

Tom: Yes, I am.

00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:12.680

Tom: And the court precedence is that I can accuse him of being a pedophile, I believe.

00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:15.440

Phil: Oh, because he got away with it.

00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:16.700

Phil: Did he get away with it?

00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:17.360

Tom: Yes.

00:52:17.680 --> 00:52:19.000

Tom: It was not defamation.

00:52:19.020 --> 00:52:22.860

Tom: So I think I can call him a pedophile.

00:52:23.680 --> 00:52:24.500

Phil: Well, those in...

00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:25.780

Phil: okay, now.

00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:27.700

Tom: I hope I can anyway, because I am.

00:52:28.040 --> 00:52:31.360

Tom: But anyway, the pedophile's Cybertruck...

00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:32.280

Phil: The truck design.

00:52:33.140 --> 00:52:33.920

Tom: Yes, yes, yes.

00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:39.560

Tom: I was just saying, that's the only other futuristic nostalgia thing that stands out.

00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:45.140

Tom: But it is really on the nose, to say the least, in its 80s inspirations.

00:52:45.160 --> 00:52:57.660

Tom: This Xbox Series X has some class to it, but I give the Cybertruck some credit for going for the 80s rather than the 50s futuristic craze going on at the moment.

00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:07.180

Phil: It's crazy that you had those references, because I saw that truck for the first time last night, and I also finished watching the original Blade Runner for the first time last night.

00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:11.480

Phil: So, next I'm going to be watching Blade Runner 2049.

00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:18.920

Tom: Prepare yourself for a lot of Xbox Series X's clouding the Los Angeles skyline.

00:53:21.380 --> 00:53:22.780

Phil: I think you've inspired me.

00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:28.200

Phil: I think tomorrow I'm going to do an article at gameunder.net that goes over the history of Sony's hardware.

00:53:29.260 --> 00:53:33.760

Phil: So I'll just put together a pictorial and some comments on that, because it is interesting.

00:53:33.900 --> 00:53:35.940

Phil: I love the look of the original Playstation.

00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:41.640

Phil: I like the Playstation 2 mini with the slim, as it was called back then.

00:53:43.820 --> 00:53:48.900

Phil: Playstation 3 was a bit of a bit of all over the place with the various versions.

00:53:50.520 --> 00:53:56.600

Phil: I was never a fan of the original launch, Playstation 3, with that curved top.

00:53:58.680 --> 00:54:02.120

Phil: That's the George Foreman grill was the most common comment.

00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:07.620

Phil: But besides the hardware, obviously they revealed a great many games.

00:54:07.720 --> 00:54:10.100

Phil: Not all of them are going to be exclusives, of course.

00:54:11.080 --> 00:54:11.940

Phil: Were there any games?

00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:18.360

Phil: Obviously the first game that I saw that I thought of you immediately was the new Oddworld game.

00:54:18.700 --> 00:54:27.680

Tom: Which was, I think, the other than Little Devil Inside or whatever it's called, I think that was without question the best trailer.

00:54:27.720 --> 00:54:33.200

Tom: Nothing came close to that as far as the thematic trailers were concerned.

00:54:33.660 --> 00:54:37.020

Phil: Well, it was the first trailer I saw and I wanted to play it.

00:54:37.020 --> 00:54:40.480

Phil: I looked at it and I went, that is an amazing use of the technology.

00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:44.540

Phil: Basically, we'll call it a 2D platformer.

00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:45.980

Tom: Which it is.

00:54:46.520 --> 00:54:47.160

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:54:47.240 --> 00:54:48.660

Phil: And I thought it looked great.

00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:50.340

Phil: And I was most happy to...

00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:56.180

Phil: I knew that Lorne Lanning was working on something, but I didn't know he was working on a new Oddworld game.

00:54:56.520 --> 00:55:05.600

Tom: It's technically a remake of Exodus, but it is a remake of Exodus doing what he wanted to originally do with Exodus.

00:55:06.680 --> 00:55:07.580

Phil: That's outstanding.

00:55:08.680 --> 00:55:11.640

Phil: I like Lorne Lanning in the interviews I've heard with him.

00:55:12.640 --> 00:55:13.540

Phil: I like his vision.

00:55:14.420 --> 00:55:16.960

Phil: And that's just great to me.

00:55:16.980 --> 00:55:20.820

Phil: Because, you know, Oddworld was an Xbox 360 exclusive.

00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:23.180

Phil: Then it had Strangers Wrath.

00:55:23.180 --> 00:55:25.900

Tom: It was the original Xbox exclusive.

00:55:26.680 --> 00:55:31.380

Tom: That's when it was exclusive with Munchers Odyssey and Strangers Wrath, not Xbox 360.

00:55:31.740 --> 00:55:39.400

Tom: They released a remaster of Strangers Wrath for 360 and PS3 and other consoles.

00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:42.500

Tom: The exclusivity was the original Xbox.

00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:43.480

Phil: That's right.

00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:43.960

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:45.760

Phil: And of course it got its start on...

00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:47.680

Phil: To me, it got its start on Playstation.

00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:50.460

Phil: So, as a Playstation 1 game.

00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:51.900

Phil: So it was great to see it coming back.

00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:56.140

Tom: It was originally a Sony exclusive with Odyssey and Exodus.

00:55:56.160 --> 00:56:01.680

Tom: Then for Xbox, it was an exclusive with Munch's Odyssey and Stranger's Wrath.

00:56:02.520 --> 00:56:03.400

Phil: That's it.

00:56:03.620 --> 00:56:06.460

Phil: So that's the game that struck out to me.

00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:21.460

Tom: My one area of trepidation with it, which still looked like it might suffer from slightly, judging by the trailer, but the gameplay is meant to be a complete re-imagining compared to the normal series.

00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:39.320

Tom: So it may not be an issue, but the remake of Abe's Odyssey they did was really floaty and imprecise, which was very awkward given that the standard design of Abe's Odyssey was all about very precise movements.

00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:55.460

Tom: So this looks to have a more dynamic and floaty sort of movement to it, but given that it is meant to be a new direction for the series, hopefully that will not be an issue like it was in their remake of Odyssey.

00:56:55.940 --> 00:56:57.580

Phil: And I'm hoping for a physical release.

00:56:59.180 --> 00:57:01.360

Phil: There was 37 games, as I said, shown.

00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.940

Phil: Was there any other games that really struck you?

00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:07.080

Phil: Obviously there were plenty for me, but...

00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:09.740

Tom: Yep, there were quite a few that did.

00:57:10.200 --> 00:57:23.320

Tom: I'll go through them all, but before that, I'll just mention the only two that were actually exclusive to the PS5, which is the Demon's Souls remake.

00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:25.820

Tom: And it's currently exclusive.

00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:29.060

Tom: Hopefully it will have a PC release at some point.

00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:35.400

Tom: And also Sackboy, which you would expect not to be released on anything else.

00:57:35.420 --> 00:57:48.200

Tom: But I thought that was a pretty good trailer for what should actually work better than the 2D LittleBigPlanet games.

00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:58.420

Tom: I think the physics engine they have, it looked pretty similar to the LittleBigPlanet games, will be slightly less frustrating in 3D than it is in 2D.

00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.260

Tom: So I thought that was one of the highlights.

00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:09.840

Tom: The other games I'm interested in, none of which are exclusive for PS5, was Resident Evil 8, which I've seen a lot of criticism for.

00:58:10.120 --> 00:58:11.480

Tom: I have no idea why.

00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:26.460

Tom: The idea of playing a first-person Resident Evil style game in some cold backwater village setting, a la Resident Evil 4, sounds incredibly fun to me.

00:58:27.080 --> 00:58:30.760

Tom: Ghostwire looks absolutely fascinating.

00:58:31.340 --> 00:58:31.980

Tom: Stray.

00:58:33.880 --> 00:58:52.560

Tom: And the highlight of the show, without question, actually Pragmata also looked interesting, albeit the trailer was rather hard to follow as to what the fuck the game was going to be, but the highlight of the entire show to me was Little Devil Inside.

00:58:53.660 --> 00:58:57.080

Phil: That's one I missed.

00:58:57.100 --> 00:58:58.300

Phil: So, Little Devil Inside?

00:58:59.880 --> 00:59:00.860

Phil: What sort of game is it?

00:59:02.900 --> 00:59:07.140

Tom: It appears to be a combination of game styles.

00:59:07.460 --> 00:59:19.200

Tom: It will at least be, from what one could tell, your classic indie side-scroller, but there also appeared to be sections that were 3D as well, so it could have been all over the place.

00:59:19.900 --> 00:59:27.940

Tom: And the hook, from what one could tell from the trailer, looks tremendously endearing and fascinating.

00:59:28.640 --> 00:59:48.940

Tom: You appear to be simultaneously playing an old man, possibly a butler, going about his daily life, as well as playing a character inside him doing various fantasy-style interactions related to bodily functions.

00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:55.860

Phil: Okay, well, I'm at their official website, and they haven't updated it for some time if it's the same game.

00:59:55.880 --> 00:59:56.440

Phil: It has to be.

00:59:56.460 --> 00:59:58.860

Tom: It's apparently been in development for five years.

00:59:59.380 --> 01:00:08.240

Phil: Well, it's going to be available for Windows, Linux, Mac, Playstation 4, Xbox One and the Wii U.

01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:11.360

Tom: Now it's apparently a PS5 and PC game.

01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:18.800

Phil: Okay, now from this website, it looks like you've got a Lego-type minifig kind of guy.

01:00:20.460 --> 01:00:21.880

Phil: So has it changed from that?

01:00:23.160 --> 01:00:26.600

Tom: That's kind of the graphic style, if that's what you mean.

01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:29.500

Phil: Well, it looks charming.

01:00:30.580 --> 01:00:34.880

Phil: Now for me, you weren't interested in Gran Turismo 7.

01:00:34.900 --> 01:00:40.940

Phil: I was really surprised and happy to see a numbered entry in the series.

01:00:41.640 --> 01:00:49.880

Tom: I'm glad that there is a Gran Turismo 7, but the trailer itself was rather disappointing for two reasons.

01:00:50.080 --> 01:00:57.920

Tom: One, since Gran Turismo 3, it's impossible to be excited about how a Gran Turismo looks like.

01:00:57.940 --> 01:01:04.880

Tom: Probably the biggest step forward since Gran Turismo 3 are the colours in Gran Turismo Sport.

01:01:06.540 --> 01:01:09.260

Tom: There didn't appear to be a huge jump from that.

01:01:10.380 --> 01:01:15.600

Tom: And from a gameplay perspective, it looked a lot like Gran Turismo Sport.

01:01:16.160 --> 01:01:23.440

Tom: And they didn't tell you how many cars there were or go into many details on the career mode.

01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:29.240

Tom: So outside of being pleased, there is a numbered Gran Turismo entry.

01:01:30.520 --> 01:01:35.720

Tom: I don't think the trailer itself did much to garner attention.

01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:42.560

Phil: I feel like my time of my life that I would play Gran Turismo has passed.

01:01:42.560 --> 01:01:54.620

Phil: And if I did want to go back and play Gran Turismo at this point, I'd probably want to go back and play two or three and get that nostalgia as opposed to any of the new entries.

01:01:54.620 --> 01:02:02.440

Phil: So yeah, it's also difficult to get excited about it when it's in a low res presentation.

01:02:05.200 --> 01:02:08.540

Phil: But how else are we going to see what it looks like until it comes out?

01:02:08.560 --> 01:02:20.260

Phil: So Gorilla Games, makers of Killzone and Horizon, announced their next new game called Horizon Forbidden West.

01:02:20.540 --> 01:02:23.460

Tom: Which I believe is a spiritual successor to Enslaved.

01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:25.300

Phil: Okay, is that right?

01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:27.660

Tom: That's what it looks like.

01:02:27.680 --> 01:02:29.740

Phil: Well, that's the last of us.

01:02:30.240 --> 01:02:36.300

Phil: Speaking of, I've got to get The Last of Us, I've got to play it next week, but all these other games I've got to finish yet.

01:02:37.660 --> 01:02:59.040

Tom: While we're on the topic of The Last of Us, can I just say the leaking of The Last of Us 2 and the reaction of The Last of Us 2 is one, I mean the leaking whatever, but the reaction to the leaking is one of the most shameful and disgusting things I have ever seen the games community do.

01:02:59.220 --> 01:03:00.020

Phil: Whose reaction?

01:03:02.380 --> 01:03:03.680

Tom: A lot of people's reactions.

01:03:05.620 --> 01:03:06.620

Tom: It was a big thing.

01:03:06.640 --> 01:03:08.060

Phil: Yeah, I know.

01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:09.840

Phil: But I want to know your take on it.

01:03:09.860 --> 01:03:16.440

Phil: The reaction, like I've seen everything from people just totally reading it and loving it.

01:03:17.120 --> 01:03:25.220

Phil: I remember when it first came out, they're like, oh, this was a disenfranchised employee who released it.

01:03:25.240 --> 01:03:29.480

Phil: Then they immediately came out the next day and said, no, it wasn't a disenfranchised employee.

01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:32.040

Phil: It was just basically a security leak.

01:03:33.640 --> 01:03:33.900

Tom: Yep.

01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:37.680

Phil: So what reaction did you have a reaction to?

01:03:37.700 --> 01:03:48.820

Tom: Well, the reaction I thought was disgusting, but it applies equally to the positive reaction, one could argue, except the positive reaction, obviously less obnoxious.

01:03:48.840 --> 01:04:12.880

Tom: But the people who took great, who thought it was terrible and hated it, to me that is just absolutely pathetic and disgusting, that you are going to base your opinion on a fucking game, on the story of the game, on stuff that has been taken out of context.

01:04:13.160 --> 01:04:15.900

Tom: That to me is, what the fuck is wrong with you?

01:04:16.600 --> 01:04:40.820

Tom: I don't understand how the fuck, you can have a snippet of a story, and I don't care how ridiculous the snippet of the story is, and conclude this is something that requires slews of outraged and disgusted posting about how this is destroying the games industry and stuff like that.

01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:42.420

Tom: I don't get that at all.

01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:53.940

Tom: That to me is not only ridiculous and disgusting, it goes against being the audience of any form of art.

01:04:55.000 --> 01:05:07.740

Tom: How can you be an audience member in something if you were going to take something out of context and react on that basis and dismiss this thing, which you don't have access to in full?

01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:11.160

Tom: That's just utterly insane to me.

01:05:11.180 --> 01:05:12.520

Phil: Oh, yeah, I agree.

01:05:12.540 --> 01:05:17.500

Phil: I mean, it is insane, and I'm glad that that was your reaction.

01:05:17.520 --> 01:05:29.880

Phil: I just, you know, I failed to be outraged by any internet activity at this point, but you're absolutely right when you're talking about it in terms of an audience member.

01:05:31.380 --> 01:05:33.720

Phil: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.

01:05:33.740 --> 01:05:36.380

Phil: It is, you know, but what do you expect, you know?

01:05:37.680 --> 01:05:43.720

Phil: Not to be too much of a downer, but Guerrilla Games, you've never played Horizon, have you?

01:05:45.220 --> 01:05:45.720

Tom: No, I haven't.

01:05:45.740 --> 01:05:47.040

Phil: Their departure from Killzone.

01:05:47.060 --> 01:05:53.300

Phil: It's now available on Steam, so maybe that'll give you an opportunity to play it.

01:05:55.180 --> 01:05:59.720

Phil: Well, the sequel to it, the one that I've been working on, is coming out, so alright, that's great.

01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:05.440

Tom: And just last thing on the sequel, I mentioned the reference to Enslaved.

01:06:05.700 --> 01:06:06.020

Phil: Yes.

01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:20.960

Tom: And I do have to say, for that reason, I am not as interested in playing that as the original, because the original had its own thing going on for it, aesthetically.

01:06:20.980 --> 01:06:26.620

Tom: This is really very much similar to Enslaved, the sequel.

01:06:27.180 --> 01:06:31.140

Phil: Okay, so Enslaved was the video game based on Journey to the West, which is...

01:06:31.160 --> 01:06:33.000

Tom: Yes, we did it at a big show on it, I believe.

01:06:33.740 --> 01:06:35.520

Phil: Yeah, we did, with The Monkey Tale.

01:06:35.580 --> 01:06:36.840

Phil: Are you serious?

01:06:36.860 --> 01:06:39.680

Phil: So they've actually said this is based on Journey to the West?

01:06:39.700 --> 01:06:42.000

Tom: No, they haven't, but it looks identical.

01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:43.780

Phil: And it's called Forbidden West.

01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:44.940

Phil: Yes.

01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:46.040

Phil: So, yeah, okay.

01:06:47.520 --> 01:06:50.700

Phil: Other than that, I was really happy to see Ratchet and Clank.

01:06:50.700 --> 01:07:00.180

Phil: The remake that they did of Ratchet and Clank for the Playstation 4 was really well done and enjoyable, even though I hadn't delved into the games prior.

01:07:01.640 --> 01:07:09.660

Phil: So, and then Spider-Man, that was a game that I sort of enjoyed, but didn't, I mean, it was impressive, technically.

01:07:09.680 --> 01:07:12.140

Phil: I didn't think much of the game itself.

01:07:12.160 --> 01:07:17.380

Tom: It was a game that was fun to fly around in, and nothing else about it was fun, from what I remember.

01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:18.780

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:22.840

Phil: So, all in all, I've got to say Sony completely nailed it.

01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:24.780

Phil: That was the best presentation I've seen.

01:07:24.800 --> 01:07:37.480

Phil: The best, next best presentation Sony did at an E3-type setting was the one where they did nothing but have that live orchestra playing along with the trailers.

01:07:38.720 --> 01:07:41.440

Phil: That was like three years ago, maybe even four years ago now.

01:07:42.220 --> 01:07:44.660

Phil: But I thought this presentation was outstanding.

01:07:45.660 --> 01:07:48.940

Phil: And I guess now all that we need to wait for is the price.

01:07:49.720 --> 01:07:56.400

Phil: I have a number I'll write down here that what I think it will launch at in Australia, the disc version.

01:07:57.740 --> 01:08:01.080

Phil: I'd be surprised if they release the digital only version in Australia.

01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:02.520

Phil: But anyway, we'll see.

01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:06.280

Phil: How much do you think they're going to charge for this monster?

01:08:07.660 --> 01:08:10.180

Tom: I'm going to go with $750.

01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:12.240

Phil: $750, okay.

01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:16.900

Phil: I wrote down $699, so you're thinking $749.

01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:24.660

Phil: Yeah, so neither one of us are expecting this to be cheap or affordable even.

01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:32.900

Tom: You wouldn't expect so, and I would assume that the Xbox console will be similarly expensive.

01:08:34.060 --> 01:08:35.580

Phil: Just to put that in the context for our unit.

01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:40.940

Tom: When you look at the hardware in it, it would be amazing if it was less than that.

01:08:41.440 --> 01:08:49.480

Tom: At those prices, it's already an amazing deal, but if it was even less than that, I can't see that happening.

01:08:50.240 --> 01:08:55.120

Phil: Well, they're making money on the services, you know, so you've got to look at that subsidized.

01:08:55.140 --> 01:08:55.920

Phil: But just to...

01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:57.040

Tom: Well, that is true.

01:08:58.820 --> 01:09:04.920

Tom: Consoles that have impressive hardware still historically have been expensive.

01:09:05.460 --> 01:09:07.940

Phil: Yes, yep, yep.

01:09:07.960 --> 01:09:14.980

Phil: For our international listeners, my estimate of $699, I just did the translation, would be $479 US.

01:09:15.880 --> 01:09:18.840

Phil: So that pretty much would be...

01:09:18.860 --> 01:09:23.500

Phil: I think you would be probably closer, because I think this is going to launch in the US at $499.

01:09:23.540 --> 01:09:25.880

Tom: I would say $500 US.

01:09:25.900 --> 01:09:30.360

Phil: Yeah, so $750 Australian is $514 US.

01:09:30.360 --> 01:09:35.280

Phil: So, yeah, I think it's going to be somewhere in between our two estimates.

01:09:36.480 --> 01:09:48.220

Phil: If I were to pick a console on day one, I'd have to say if it was based on visuals, I'd go with the Xbox, in terms of how the console looks.

01:09:49.240 --> 01:10:25.960

Phil: I've got to say that the proposition for me, with Microsoft saying that all of the games that they release, at least for a time, are going to be playable on the Xbox One and on PC, obviously everything that Microsoft releases is on PC simultaneously with Game Pass, gives me an excuse to make that the second console I'd buy, just because there's no urgent pressing console exclusive that I'm going to be missing out on by not getting an Xbox One Series X, Xbox One Series X is ridiculous.

01:10:28.240 --> 01:10:38.440

Phil: You know what I'm saying, but whereas with the Playstation 4, I'm going to have the opportunity to access new technology and some exclusives at the same time, so that's probably what I'd opt with.

01:10:39.700 --> 01:10:48.060

Phil: But everyone knows buying a console on day one is a dumb thing to do, the best thing to do is to wait until they get all the technical kinks ironed out.

01:10:50.180 --> 01:10:56.060

Phil: But I still will be really hankering to get a new console when they come out later this year.

01:10:58.380 --> 01:10:59.940

Phil: Would you have a consumer preference?

01:10:59.960 --> 01:11:11.900

Phil: I mean, you've just invested a massive amount in a PC upgrade and you've just been given 1600 games, so I'm assuming you're not hankering for a new piece of dedicated gaming hardware?

01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:12.320

Tom: Not at all.

01:11:12.660 --> 01:11:44.740

Tom: And to me, I would be however inclined, if it's between Xbox and Playstation, to lean towards the Playstation, because if you do have a reasonable PC, with the Xbox app as bad as Microsoft programming is, that does mean you can probably play most Xbox exclusives, whereas there are still, well so far, two Playstation exclusives that are not as yet coming to PC.

01:11:45.100 --> 01:11:54.280

Tom: But even Sony games more and more have been popping up on PC, so maybe that will not be the case by the end of this generation.

01:11:54.300 --> 01:11:59.720

Phil: Yeah, I think they're giving people a taste, just to try and get them interested in some of Sony's IPs.

01:11:59.740 --> 01:12:17.960

Phil: It is a waste to see IP language on an exclusive console, because even highly popular games like The Last of Us, and Uncharted, do get exposed to a limited number of players, because they are on an exclusive platform.

01:12:19.440 --> 01:12:23.080

Phil: But yeah, I think you're dead right there.

01:12:23.100 --> 01:12:29.180

Phil: If you've got a good PC, you're going to stick with why would you buy the console?

01:12:29.200 --> 01:12:31.280

Phil: I think that's Microsoft's attitude as well.

01:12:31.300 --> 01:12:43.800

Phil: We've often talked over the years how, at their root, Nintendo is a toy company, Sony is a electronics company, and Microsoft is a software and services company.

01:12:44.300 --> 01:12:48.780

Phil: And I don't think Microsoft cares if you buy the new Xbox, as long as you can subscribe to Game Pass.

01:12:48.940 --> 01:12:52.500

Phil: However, that's what they're interested in.

01:12:52.620 --> 01:12:55.360

Phil: And obviously with Sony, they're interested in selling electronics.

01:12:55.680 --> 01:13:00.180

Phil: So their emphasis is on making a powerful box with exclusives.

01:13:01.400 --> 01:13:02.580

Phil: But yeah, very interesting.

01:13:02.600 --> 01:13:06.820

Phil: So were you as impressed with the presentation as I, or?

01:13:07.320 --> 01:13:09.080

Tom: Well, I didn't watch the presentation.

01:13:09.460 --> 01:13:12.180

Phil: Well, it was basically, and that was all it was.

01:13:12.340 --> 01:13:14.340

Phil: So it was just trailer after trailer.

01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:20.600

Tom: If I could pick out that many games, I mean, that was, must have been like seven or eight, something like that.

01:13:21.140 --> 01:13:24.400

Tom: Or at least even five, that's a good presentation.

01:13:25.140 --> 01:13:25.780

Phil: Absolutely.

01:13:26.620 --> 01:13:33.820

Tom: The one thing I will add though, just the one thing I will add, remakes are the new sequel.

01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:35.140

Phil: Yeah.

01:13:36.060 --> 01:13:44.460

Tom: The amount of remakes that are constantly popping up everywhere is pretty ridiculous to me.

01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:54.000

Tom: And often it's for absolutely no reason other than to merely have another version of the game to sell.

01:13:54.220 --> 01:14:02.480

Tom: Demon's Souls is actually an example of where a remake is a good idea because of how poorly the original ran.

01:14:02.900 --> 01:14:17.840

Tom: But I do find the high quantity of remakes to be even more uninteresting than the high quantity of sequels that they are replacing this trend.

01:14:18.940 --> 01:14:19.540

Phil: Yeah, it is.

01:14:19.560 --> 01:14:23.000

Phil: I mean, Kingdoms of Amalor remake got announced this week.

01:14:23.940 --> 01:14:30.160

Phil: It is ridiculous, which is what's making indie games and original games all the more appealing.

01:14:31.420 --> 01:14:44.600

Phil: Having said that, though, a very long time ago, we talked on the podcast about how you can go into a DVD store, wow, and get movies from 40 years ago and 30 years ago and 10 years ago.

01:14:44.620 --> 01:14:45.420

Phil: And they're all there.

01:14:45.440 --> 01:14:48.060

Phil: They're all constantly in print.

01:14:48.740 --> 01:15:00.400

Phil: And we bemoaned the fact that you can't do that with gaming, that really you've got to, other than with a PC, you've got to really try hard to go back and go through back catalogs.

01:15:00.940 --> 01:15:09.160

Phil: And in a way, these constant remakes are, you know, making these games available more easily.

01:15:09.180 --> 01:15:11.100

Phil: And I appreciate that.

01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:16.660

Tom: I prefer the Xbox model of backwards compatibility you're a fan of.

01:15:17.620 --> 01:15:18.400

Phil: Oh yeah, me too.

01:15:18.480 --> 01:15:19.440

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

01:15:19.460 --> 01:15:20.440

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:15:21.260 --> 01:15:23.100

Phil: Oh boy, maybe I will get an Xbox first.

01:15:23.500 --> 01:15:25.260

Phil: I just want to hear them say the words.

01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:30.360

Phil: You can put any original Xbox disc in the thing and it will work.

01:15:30.380 --> 01:15:32.720

Phil: And that will make it a day one purchase for me.

01:15:35.320 --> 01:15:42.680

Tom: Now, I just realised that we forgot to rate, using my pattern and dice technique, A Morticians Tale.

01:15:43.460 --> 01:15:43.940

Phil: Oh yes.

01:15:43.960 --> 01:15:49.940

Tom: So before we do anything else, we will have to unleash the dice.

01:15:53.480 --> 01:15:57.500

Tom: And Morticians Tale, I am giving, unfortunately, a 3 out of 10.

01:15:57.520 --> 01:16:02.220

Phil: Okay, you're giving it a 3 out of 10 and I gave it a...

01:16:02.800 --> 01:16:07.640

Phil: I'm going to give it a 6 out of 10, which means it only gets a 9 out of 20.

01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:08.860

Tom: Yes.

01:16:09.440 --> 01:16:10.660

Phil: That doesn't seem very fair.

01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:11.140

Phil: Yeah.

01:16:12.240 --> 01:16:14.520

Tom: That that's how the dice rolls.

01:16:14.940 --> 01:16:16.360

Tom: And in the previous...

01:16:17.340 --> 01:16:23.640

Tom: In the previous episode, we forgot to rate Sky as well, even though that was my final impressions.

01:16:24.180 --> 01:16:24.580

Phil: Really?

01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:26.440

Tom: Yes, but I will briefly...

01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:29.960

Phil: I've got to put this on our review archive at gameunder.net.

01:16:30.140 --> 01:17:27.720

Tom: Yes, I will just briefly add, given that the opportunity has arisen, my true final impressions, just one of the other most impressive things about Sky is the fact that it managed to be a narrative, a satisfying and successful narrative game in the sense of Journey, a enjoyable grinding slash flying game, like Pilotwings crossed with an addictive MMORPG structure, and a game where, due to the feature of being able to fly friends around, that you can easily talk to your friends while playing, as well as all the other social interactions, it's got to be probably the only MMO that I've played it anyway that has a genuinely good narrative in it, that is enjoyable, as enjoyable as a single player narrative.

01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:29.580

Tom: So it is time...

01:17:29.580 --> 01:17:31.960

Phil: Are you going to give it a die roll score?

01:17:31.980 --> 01:17:33.400

Tom: Yes, I am.

01:17:33.400 --> 01:17:35.560

Tom: Everything is a die roll score now.

01:17:36.140 --> 01:17:36.560

Phil: Okay.

01:17:38.840 --> 01:17:44.580

Tom: And it gets the fifth best game of the last decade, it gets an 8 out of 10.

01:17:45.060 --> 01:17:45.700

Phil: Wow.

01:17:47.220 --> 01:17:49.120

Phil: You're not using a weighted die, are you?

01:17:51.160 --> 01:17:52.220

Tom: No, I don't think so.

01:17:52.880 --> 01:18:06.100

Phil: In the last episode, 125, we gave our refreshed opinions on and views or impressions of Journey from that game company, and at the end I spliced in our impressions from episode 22.

01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:08.180

Phil: Did you have a chance to listen to that?

01:18:08.200 --> 01:18:11.120

Phil: I don't think it was episode 22, but did you have a chance to listen to it?

01:18:12.040 --> 01:18:13.280

Phil: Yeah, it's worth a listen to.

01:18:13.280 --> 01:18:20.420

Phil: It was actually quite interesting to hear us say in some ways almost the same thing seven years ago.

01:18:20.440 --> 01:18:23.460

Phil: It was very interesting indeed.

01:18:23.480 --> 01:18:25.740

Phil: In fact, we both did give the game a score back then.

01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:35.260

Phil: So, the next game though, I haven't played this game, and I don't know much about it, but you've been playing or have you finished this game?

01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:47.120

Tom: I have finished A Plague Tale, Call On Innocence, which is a very topical game, I believe, in these unprecedented times.

01:18:47.140 --> 01:18:56.280

Tom: It is set during other unprecedented times to be precise a plague outbreak in the 14th century.

01:18:58.320 --> 01:19:01.940

Tom: And it is by the French de Val-Gone.

01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:04.380

Phil: I was just putting that together.

01:19:04.400 --> 01:19:06.560

Phil: So this is a game set in the 1300s?

01:19:07.240 --> 01:19:08.060

Tom: Yes, correct.

01:19:09.460 --> 01:19:11.120

Phil: That's just hard for me to visualise.

01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:16.400

Tom: During a plague outbreak, and it is by Asobo Studios.

01:19:16.540 --> 01:19:36.380

Tom: And this should be right up your alley, this game, because Asobo Studios is a company that was primarily making licensed products until they made Fuel, a racing game published by Codemasters.

01:19:37.540 --> 01:19:37.940

Tom: Then...

01:19:37.960 --> 01:19:40.620

Phil: Okay, yeah, yeah.

01:19:41.080 --> 01:19:43.020

Phil: I've played and beaten one of their games.

01:19:43.040 --> 01:19:46.000

Phil: I played the very mediocre Wall-E game.

01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:49.960

Tom: That would be a licensed product.

01:19:50.340 --> 01:19:51.020

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:56.720

Phil: And when looking at other games they've played here, they're currently working on Microsoft Flight Simulator.

01:19:56.740 --> 01:19:59.640

Phil: So that's actually a release that I'm excited about.

01:20:01.460 --> 01:20:02.960

Phil: But yeah, they did The Crew.

01:20:04.700 --> 01:20:05.620

Phil: Disneyland Adventures.

01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:11.080

Tom: So The Crew 2, they were not the developer of the original.

01:20:11.100 --> 01:20:16.520

Tom: So this would make A Plague Tale Innocence their second original title, I believe.

01:20:17.440 --> 01:20:23.760

Phil: So are you telling me that Garfield, A Tale of Two Kitties wasn't their original game, their original IP?

01:20:23.780 --> 01:20:25.320

Tom: I don't think so.

01:20:25.340 --> 01:20:25.920

Tom: That's shocking.

01:20:26.220 --> 01:20:27.020

Tom: I don't think so.

01:20:27.200 --> 01:20:28.700

Phil: What about Monopoly Plus?

01:20:30.060 --> 01:20:30.380

Tom: No.

01:20:30.980 --> 01:20:32.420

Phil: They, you know what?

01:20:32.520 --> 01:20:33.840

Tom: I stand corrected.

01:20:33.860 --> 01:20:36.080

Tom: They did develop the original crew, in fact.

01:20:36.540 --> 01:20:40.100

Tom: So this would be their third original title.

01:20:40.820 --> 01:20:52.520

Phil: I'm having a bit of fun here, but I've got to say, I have so much respect for working studios like this that just keep themselves busy and occupied and, you know, turning out good stuff.

01:20:53.000 --> 01:20:55.020

Phil: You know, even turning out mediocre stuff.

01:20:55.040 --> 01:21:01.160

Phil: I just love to see a healthy, independent studio with doing these kinds of games.

01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:03.300

Phil: It's just, I like it.

01:21:03.340 --> 01:21:03.780

Phil: I love it.

01:21:04.100 --> 01:21:06.380

Phil: So, Asobo, what country are they from?

01:21:07.060 --> 01:21:08.140

Tom: They are from France.

01:21:09.980 --> 01:21:12.300

Phil: Okay, and what sort of game is A Plague Tale?

01:21:13.200 --> 01:21:21.280

Tom: Well, A Plague Tale is clearly very much inspired by The Last of Us and Uncharted.

01:21:22.460 --> 01:21:30.860

Tom: So it's basically an adventure game with its primary gameplay being stealth and puzzle solving.

01:21:31.060 --> 01:21:49.440

Tom: There is a shooting mechanic using a slingshot, but it is, being a slingshot, it's a complicated mechanic where you hold down fire until you get the crosshairs reduced to a certain size to be able to hit your target.

01:21:49.460 --> 01:21:56.540

Tom: So it's obviously designed primarily around stealth and around puzzle solving.

01:21:57.200 --> 01:22:04.440

Tom: Both the stealth and the puzzle solving for the first two-thirds of the game is very rudimentary.

01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:11.320

Tom: The puzzle solving is usually just as simple as moving.

01:22:12.380 --> 01:22:23.940

Tom: Really, it's barely a step up from Resident Evil, except that there are a few puzzles that require some real-time manipulation to be able to do them.

01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:35.260

Tom: Beyond that, it's essentially Resident Evil level puzzle solving where you're basically moving lights to face certain directions and things like that.

01:22:35.900 --> 01:22:44.280

Tom: It is a bit more complicated in that it also makes use of the crafting system in the game because to you...

01:22:45.180 --> 01:23:07.540

Tom: We'll get to all the stories, but basically you're creating various alchemical concoctions which do various things like light fires or put fires out, melt enemies' helmets because you cannot injure enemies with your slingshot unless you get to a certain upgrade level if they have a helmet on, so you have to get the helmet off them, and that's how you do that.

01:23:07.940 --> 01:23:20.840

Tom: So while there's a greater variety of the things you're doing compared to something like Resident Evil, the level of the puzzles you're solving is very much on that really basic sort of level.

01:23:22.360 --> 01:23:26.520

Tom: The stealth is a little more interesting than that.

01:23:26.540 --> 01:23:32.440

Tom: You are able to attract enemies' attentions with your slingshot.

01:23:32.460 --> 01:23:44.160

Tom: If there's anything metallic you can hit with stones, you can pick up pots to throw to get the enemies to walk towards them and that sort of thing.

01:23:44.480 --> 01:23:55.260

Tom: But it is very basic, and there's not that much room for creativity, which is what makes stealth games so fun most of the time.

01:23:55.480 --> 01:24:09.700

Tom: The only game that is less creative that I think does stealth exceptionally well is the Metro series, and that requires a high level of execution from the player to make it interesting.

01:24:10.160 --> 01:24:23.920

Tom: And while there is a high level of execution here in some of the areas during the stealth, when you get noticed or killed, you end up basically just back at the same spot you were before you were spotted.

01:24:24.160 --> 01:24:34.860

Tom: So while you need to know what you're doing, in the hardest sections of it, you still aren't really pushed back far enough for it to really matter at all.

01:24:35.680 --> 01:24:50.840

Tom: Things do improve in the final third of the game, which I will get to at the end, but unless you have any other questions about the gameplay, I will start talking about the setting and the story.

01:24:50.860 --> 01:24:58.260

Phil: Well, I've got to say, just looking at images here, it does look a lot like The Last of Us.

01:25:00.160 --> 01:25:02.300

Phil: And I'm surprised that I hadn't...

01:25:03.060 --> 01:25:10.640

Phil: Obviously, maybe it's the generic nature of the name of the game or something like that, but this one had completely skipped by me.

01:25:12.020 --> 01:25:16.900

Phil: And it's available for Playstation 4, Xbox One and PC.

01:25:17.020 --> 01:25:18.260

Phil: What are you playing it on right now?

01:25:19.160 --> 01:25:20.820

Tom: Xbox Games Pass.

01:25:21.300 --> 01:25:23.260

Phil: Okay, okay, so you're playing it on PC.

01:25:25.480 --> 01:25:29.600

Phil: So, no, I don't really have that many questions about the actual gameplay.

01:25:29.680 --> 01:25:31.080

Phil: It's pretty well described by you.

01:25:32.260 --> 01:25:53.020

Tom: Yep, and the structure is like Uncharted or The Last of Us or any modern adventure game, minus the platforming where you're just going through a series of set pieces interspersed with narrative story sections, sorry, in between.

01:25:53.040 --> 01:25:55.620

Phil: It was quite well received by the looks of it, too.

01:25:55.640 --> 01:26:00.940

Phil: It got a lot of note for its story, so hopefully you'll touch on that.

01:26:01.540 --> 01:26:05.280

Tom: I was going to say, I noticed it just because of the ridiculous title.

01:26:05.780 --> 01:26:20.940

Tom: Otherwise, I had not heard of this game, so when I saw the ridiculous title and then looked it up, I was surprised to see that it has been so well received, because in spite of it being so well received, it had somewhat flown under the radar to some degree.

01:26:22.120 --> 01:26:27.280

Phil: Yeah, yeah, and obviously the developer, you know, it's a French game, the developer's not very well known.

01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:36.300

Phil: Yeah, it's a real shame, but I mean obviously we must be the only ones who ignored it, because plenty of other people have given it awards and good scores.

01:26:38.060 --> 01:26:44.140

Phil: Looks like IGN gave it a 7 out of 10, which is not a bad score at all, but mostly 8.

01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:47.860

Phil: So yeah, I'm really interested in this.

01:26:48.420 --> 01:26:53.880

Phil: In terms of the story, are you able to cover the story?

01:26:54.400 --> 01:26:59.720

Tom: Yes, I will, and I will attempt to avoid spoilers, so it should be possible.

01:27:00.040 --> 01:27:15.840

Tom: But I went into this basically completely blind outside of the title, so I had no idea what to expect, but based on the title, I was expecting it to be about the plague during the Middle Ages.

01:27:17.120 --> 01:27:21.560

Tom: And the beginning of the game is really good.

01:27:22.980 --> 01:27:32.840

Tom: You're basically just wandering around with some dude older than you who is apparently your father, but he's pretty young.

01:27:33.540 --> 01:27:35.600

Tom: But then again, it is the Middle Ages.

01:27:35.920 --> 01:27:53.860

Tom: So anyway, I should also add, you're playing as basically an older teenage girl, and you're wandering through the gardens outside your middle class estate, that is medieval middle class estate.

01:27:55.420 --> 01:28:00.160

Tom: And you're just going around learning how to shoot your sing-sot, i.e.

01:28:00.180 --> 01:28:03.420

Tom: going around showing off to your father and things like this.

01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:12.500

Tom: Then your hunting dog runs off into the woods, and the tone and atmosphere change completely.

01:28:12.980 --> 01:28:23.940

Tom: And you're running through the woods looking for your dog and black gloopy stuff in the classic Japanese slash French style.

01:28:24.540 --> 01:28:55.560

Tom: And you don't literally see this so much in French stuff, French visual art or film where you have these mutations and black gloopy stuff going everywhere as some sort of metaphysical dread, which is clearly a post-World War II thing in Japanese art, and I think we've mentioned this before, but you do get that in French literature, at least in terms of the atmosphere.

01:28:56.660 --> 01:29:04.440

Tom: And French art and Japanese art have obviously been very much intertwined since the 1800s.

01:29:05.680 --> 01:29:09.040

Tom: But at that point, the atmosphere changes completely.

01:29:09.060 --> 01:29:16.820

Tom: It goes from a jaunty stroll with your father to basically a horror game, which was not what I was expecting at all.

01:29:16.880 --> 01:29:35.080

Tom: And it ends with you finding your dog and also a black gloop nest, essentially, at which point you return to your house and you just wander around and decide you need to tell your mother what's going on.

01:29:36.200 --> 01:29:52.780

Tom: And to cut a long story short, by the end of this day, you are off with your brother running away from the Inquisition with rats flying everywhere and not at all what I was expecting the game to be.

01:29:52.800 --> 01:30:11.280

Tom: While there is a plague going on, it is very much a magical plague of millions of rats running around everywhere rather than a medieval plague of a tick-borne disease potentially spread by rats.

01:30:12.020 --> 01:30:20.340

Tom: So I was expecting a historical game and got a semi-horror game instead.

01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:24.260

Tom: But that wasn't what I was expected.

01:30:24.340 --> 01:30:35.220

Tom: Once I got over the disappointment of it being something completely different, it turned out to be really a very enjoyable experience.

01:30:35.580 --> 01:30:51.960

Tom: As I said, you're playing as the elder sister with your younger brother, attempting to escape the Inquisition as your younger brother has magical powers potentially related to his blood that may be related to the plague.

01:30:52.300 --> 01:31:08.100

Tom: So the local bishop, I can't remember his exact position, I think he's a bishop or archbishop, is attempting to track you down for his own uses in regards to the plague and the political machinations that are going on at the time.

01:31:08.500 --> 01:31:12.620

Tom: So it's very much like The Last of Us in that sense.

01:31:13.600 --> 01:31:26.940

Tom: What could have been a very uninteresting and even annoying relationship between the two characters due to the excellent performances of the two voice actors playing them?

01:31:27.400 --> 01:31:34.900

Tom: And it is mainly a vocal performance because a lot of the dialogue is in game rather than during the cut scenes.

01:31:36.440 --> 01:32:05.940

Tom: So that is where I think the best character interactions occur during the little bits of banter and discussion as you're going through the level, which is to the credit of both the writers and the actors, thanks to them, they make it a very endearing and easy to empathise with story about attempting to face the odds in a sibling relationship.

01:32:06.600 --> 01:32:18.220

Tom: And the setting, while again a little bit disappointing compared to what it could have been, as a semi-horror setting in the Middle Ages is brilliant.

01:32:18.380 --> 01:32:21.280

Tom: The game looks amazing.

01:32:21.640 --> 01:32:28.020

Tom: The villages you're going through are suitably filthy and caked in mud.

01:32:28.660 --> 01:32:30.960

Tom: Everyone doesn't bathe.

01:32:31.320 --> 01:32:35.100

Tom: And I should add that people in the Middle Ages did bathe.

01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:37.700

Tom: They particularly washed their faces.

01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:39.940

Tom: They washed their hands before every meal.

01:32:40.760 --> 01:32:52.660

Tom: So the aesthetic that is throughout games and films and media of Middle Ages people being absolutely filthy is completely false.

01:32:54.480 --> 01:33:04.500

Tom: So it's hilarious seeing these middle class characters that you begin as with filthy faces the entire time before they're on the run.

01:33:05.540 --> 01:33:15.840

Tom: But as hilariously ridiculous from a historical perspective as the filthy Middle Ages is, the filthy Middle Ages is nevertheless an extremely fun setting.

01:33:15.980 --> 01:33:17.860

Tom: The villages are filthy, as I said.

01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:21.940

Tom: The countryside areas look beautiful.

01:33:22.000 --> 01:33:24.140

Tom: The foliage is wonderful.

01:33:24.160 --> 01:33:26.260

Tom: The flowers are colourful.

01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:31.280

Tom: And the lighting really stands out as does the particle effects.

01:33:31.620 --> 01:33:42.480

Tom: The snowflakes, for instance, are not just dots, but they are literal flakes of snow in that general sort of shape.

01:33:42.940 --> 01:33:45.760

Tom: So the attention to detail is exceptional.

01:33:46.320 --> 01:33:58.880

Tom: And it's the first game I have played other than Metro Exodus, where upscaling makes a really noticeable difference to what the game looks like at 100% resolution scale.

01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:08.140

Tom: You can really see that the textures in the background are low res.

01:34:08.320 --> 01:34:18.920

Tom: When you raise the upscaling so that they're at a high resolution, they look sharper and there is a noticeable difference and everything ends up looking smooth.

01:34:19.380 --> 01:34:25.640

Tom: So not only aesthetically, but technically it is graphically very impressive.

01:34:27.400 --> 01:35:05.520

Tom: And while the gameplay pacing doesn't reach the heights of something like the best moments of The Last of Us, which is really, to be fair, only the final third, or Uncharted 2 which is a bit more consistently well paced, the aesthetic changes in the scenery do reach those heights and the narrative, once you get past the first half as they're introducing more and more characters, once the characters have been introduced and start to interact with one another, they also become interesting as the protagonists are.

01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:23.700

Tom: And I haven't mentioned much about the Inquisition or the rats, but the Inquisition as an antagonist is, as you would expect from a French thing, the French anti-Catholic sentiment is unmatched in the world.

01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:30.100

Tom: No one does evil popes and evil bishops and evil archbishops like the French do.

01:35:30.700 --> 01:35:34.480

Tom: And this lives up to what you would expect from that.

01:35:34.500 --> 01:35:51.520

Tom: The major antagonist of the game is essentially a drug addicted, disease ridden figure who looks like the Catholic dude from Resident Evil 4 crossed with the Emperor from Star Wars.

01:35:51.600 --> 01:35:56.020

Tom: It is an absolutely brilliant cartoony figure.

01:35:56.700 --> 01:36:12.020

Tom: And the rats, while they look ridiculous, I don't know if you're very familiar with rats, but rats are one of the most flexible and acrobatic as well as squishy animals in existence.

01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:35.300

Tom: The rats, and you can have hundreds or thousands of rats on screen at once, they basically have the flexibility of a leather slash rubber shoe, and not like a barefoot shoe that you can squash in half, a relatively firm shoe.

01:36:35.600 --> 01:36:37.240

Tom: So the animation is hilarious.

01:36:37.260 --> 01:36:44.080

Tom: For them to turn around, it's like a car doing a really awkward U-turn, but at high speed.

01:36:45.540 --> 01:36:52.200

Tom: So what is meant to be a menacing, frightening thing just looks completely ridiculous and hilarious.

01:36:53.180 --> 01:36:56.400

Phil: If you didn't know much about rats though, would you pick up on it, do you think?

01:36:56.500 --> 01:36:59.220

Phil: Like your average gamer who hasn't seen a real rat?

01:37:00.380 --> 01:37:12.680

Tom: Well, I hope you would at least think it looks ridiculous, because you surely have seen rats in films, and that they're capable of turning in a circle without doing a three-point turn.

01:37:15.340 --> 01:37:16.820

Phil: Yeah, like most animals can.

01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:26.080

Phil: The reason why I was stuck on the rats is because obviously it's a big part of the game in terms of its theme.

01:37:26.440 --> 01:37:33.040

Tom: Yep, and I will mention, I will go into a bit more detail on the gameplay here, because they are a major part of the gameplay.

01:37:33.300 --> 01:37:42.900

Tom: So basically another element going on, as well as the stealth sections and the shooting, and when the game is at its best, it combines all three elements.

01:37:42.920 --> 01:37:44.880

Tom: There's also the avoiding rat element.

01:37:45.240 --> 01:38:01.680

Tom: Now, the rats are deathly afraid of light, so essentially they can go anywhere where there isn't light, and if you get too close to them, they will eat you, and you will then reset to wherever the checkpoint is essentially.

01:38:02.060 --> 01:38:32.160

Tom: So to deal with rats, you have to be lighting things using your alchemist potions, changing where lamps are pointed, or extinguishing flames, and as you're playing, you also unlock further alchemist skills that allow you to direct where rats are, which you can use to kill enemies, and all sorts of permutations like that.

01:38:32.560 --> 01:38:44.080

Tom: And when those elements are all used at once, there is actually some room for creativity, and the game does become engrossing and enjoyable on a gameplay level.

01:38:44.320 --> 01:39:07.780

Tom: By the end of the game, you have even more control over what rats can do, and I won't spoil it, but it is one of the best ever moments in a game where they have you being pushed back and being killed by something, but eventually you get to...

01:39:07.800 --> 01:39:21.760

Tom: It's difficult to avoid spoilers here, but it is worth playing without being spoiled, where you no longer have to deal with that problem at all in one of the most satisfying ways in any game ever.

01:39:21.780 --> 01:39:27.440

Tom: The last few levels in the game also use all three elements at once throughout the whole thing.

01:39:28.420 --> 01:39:38.720

Tom: They also level the areas themselves, become a little bit more open and a little bit more complex in their architecture, so that there is even more room for creativity.

01:39:39.060 --> 01:39:55.660

Tom: So, like The Last of Us, the final push in the game is really, really enjoyable and is super satisfying after it hasn't really lived up to its mechanical potential early on.

01:39:56.000 --> 01:40:20.120

Tom: And the final boss is not only hilarious from an imagery perspective, from a gameplay perspective, it takes these disparate elements and slightly awkward things that you wouldn't think you could put together into an exciting 3D Mario-style boss battle and absolutely nails it.

01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:24.900

Phil: Yeah, I'm looking at the...

01:40:25.280 --> 01:40:27.660

Phil: and I'm glad you didn't spoil it because I do want to play this game.

01:40:27.740 --> 01:40:34.700

Phil: It's still a full-price game, and the stupid thing about it is, while we've been talking about it, I've had to look up its name like four times.

01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:38.160

Phil: The name kills this game.

01:40:38.160 --> 01:40:41.560

Phil: It's such a horrible name.

01:40:41.580 --> 01:40:42.760

Phil: It's so unmemorable.

01:40:44.060 --> 01:40:45.440

Phil: The name of the game is A Plague Tale Innocence.

01:40:45.460 --> 01:40:51.500

Tom: It is an awful game, but in its defence, this caught my eye because the title was so awful.

01:40:53.100 --> 01:41:01.080

Tom: If it had been called something cool like Uncharted or The Last of Us, it would have been up to you to notice it.

01:41:02.760 --> 01:41:05.220

Tom: It would have blown right past my radar.

01:41:05.400 --> 01:41:06.460

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

01:41:06.460 --> 01:41:07.700

Phil: It's such a bad name.

01:41:09.220 --> 01:41:17.500

Phil: Now, I'm interested that you said that the dialogue was good, but it's a French-made game, so do you think that's more to do with localisation than the original writing?

01:41:17.520 --> 01:41:20.200

Phil: It's no way for us to know.

01:41:20.220 --> 01:41:30.560

Tom: I think they focused on the English version of the game as being the real version of the game, quote, real, end quote, real.

01:41:32.660 --> 01:41:41.020

Tom: As far as I'm aware, that's where they put their focus in terms of their direction and presumably writing as well.

01:41:41.320 --> 01:41:58.480

Tom: And it's noticeable in the dialogue, sorry, in the acting, because I did play a reasonable amount of it in French because the French, like the Russian dub in Metro games, absolutely fits the atmosphere.

01:41:58.500 --> 01:42:04.340

Tom: And as an atmosphere experience, and atmosphere is one of the best things in the game, the French fits it perfectly.

01:42:04.860 --> 01:42:16.820

Tom: But I went to the English because the interaction between the two protagonists was on another level in the English dub to what it was in the French.

01:42:17.440 --> 01:42:28.840

Tom: And having finished the game, looking up, English is the language they wanted the game to be played in and where they put their efforts.

01:42:29.980 --> 01:42:40.140

Tom: So I don't think it's a case of the localizers doing anything that was not the intention of the people making the game itself.

01:42:43.400 --> 01:42:44.580

Phil: So you've obviously finished it.

01:42:44.600 --> 01:42:45.660

Phil: You beat the last boss.

01:42:46.100 --> 01:42:46.360

Tom: Yep.

01:42:47.100 --> 01:43:02.300

Tom: And I will add the highlight of the game, though, is not any of that, which is, some of it that I mentioned is exceptional, as I said, but the highlight of it is, some of the imagery of the game is really great.

01:43:02.320 --> 01:43:23.120

Tom: The battlefields of, again, just the traditional body disposal that wasn't mentioned in The Morticians Tale, the battlefields of mass graves look amazing that you have to walk through to get to some place that you're going to.

01:43:23.540 --> 01:43:30.420

Tom: The fields of slaughtered animals that have been slaughtered due to the plague are brilliant.

01:43:30.500 --> 01:43:43.660

Tom: And the horror imagery as well in some of the more dreamlike sequences where you are crawling through a tunnel of corpses that are reaching for you is fantastic as well.

01:43:44.220 --> 01:43:54.100

Tom: And the use of Christian imagery, the cathedral sections look just absolutely beautiful.

01:43:54.780 --> 01:44:06.800

Tom: In terms of imagery, it is genuinely great and worth playing for the imagery alone if you are interested in games from an aesthetic perspective.

01:44:08.080 --> 01:44:15.900

Phil: Well, as I said, Asobo is now working on more, I guess you could say, down to earth material.

01:44:15.920 --> 01:44:27.120

Phil: They're working on Flight Simulator, which is a rather big job because Flight Simulator hasn't had a release since Flight Simulator 10, and that was about 10 or 11, 12 years ago at this point.

01:44:27.340 --> 01:44:40.500

Phil: Obviously, they've impressed Microsoft enough to be given the duty of bringing that back, but it is rather uncreative and mundane compared to what you're telling me about this game.

01:44:40.920 --> 01:44:43.340

Phil: Let's hope there's a sequel.

01:44:45.420 --> 01:44:47.880

Phil: Would you want a sequel?

01:44:49.400 --> 01:44:52.640

Tom: I would like an entirely new work from them.

01:44:54.780 --> 01:44:56.700

Tom: But I think it's time that we give it a score.

01:44:57.600 --> 01:44:59.260

Phil: Okay, so break out the die.

01:44:59.920 --> 01:45:00.760

Tom: I just have.

01:45:01.580 --> 01:45:02.400

Phil: The die of truth?

01:45:03.640 --> 01:45:04.000

Tom: Yes.

01:45:04.260 --> 01:45:21.700

Tom: Unfortunately, the game with genuinely great imagery that is worth playing for its imagery alone, with a finale that is similar to The Last of Us in its ability to thrill, gets a 5 out of 10.

01:45:23.280 --> 01:45:29.780

Phil: So this to me is one of the most positive impressions you've given of a game since the last podcast, Sky.

01:45:31.880 --> 01:45:34.560

Phil: I'm really happy that you found this game.

01:45:34.920 --> 01:45:37.160

Phil: I'm not sure what format I'm going to be playing it on.

01:45:39.180 --> 01:45:42.660

Phil: Certainly, it would take a pretty specced up PC, I'm sure.

01:45:44.460 --> 01:45:45.400

Tom: Probably not.

01:45:45.400 --> 01:45:54.280

Tom: It is an Unreal Engine game, and I do believe that it should easily scale down to low settings without an issue.

01:45:55.040 --> 01:45:56.560

Phil: Okay, and the name of the game again?

01:45:57.200 --> 01:45:59.640

Tom: The name of the game is Plague Tale Innocence.

01:46:01.060 --> 01:46:11.420

Tom: And looking up the minimum requirements, I think you could probably get away with playing it on the lowest settings just barely.

01:46:11.980 --> 01:46:27.200

Tom: It only requires an i3-2120, which I think actually is your CPU, if I recall correctly, and a Radeon HD 7870, which is possibly your video card?

01:46:28.260 --> 01:46:29.000

Phil: Sounds familiar.

01:46:29.620 --> 01:46:32.400

Tom: Or do you have the 7770?

01:46:32.420 --> 01:46:35.600

Phil: The 7770 actually sounds better.

01:46:35.900 --> 01:46:41.940

Tom: Well, then that is a big gap, video card-wise, but it would probably run.

01:46:43.500 --> 01:46:57.100

Phil: The cheapest way for me to get this would probably be, well, obviously getting Game Pass would be one option, but the cheapest way for me to get this would probably be used, which looks like you can pick it up on eBay for about 50 bucks, if you're lucky.

01:46:58.700 --> 01:47:04.080

Phil: But yeah, it's still pretty expensive everywhere, but I'm real excited about that.

01:47:04.100 --> 01:47:13.920

Tom: It seems to be selling well and have a positive reception, so in spite of its title and us having never heard of it, it seems to be a success.

01:47:14.460 --> 01:47:24.000

Phil: Yeah, well, the true measure of any video game success is if it's been used or turned into some sort of digital pornography, so I'll check on that later.

01:47:26.300 --> 01:47:27.000

Phil: I mean, I'm just...

01:47:27.020 --> 01:47:28.040

Tom: Alas, go on.

01:47:29.020 --> 01:47:36.920

Phil: If you do an image search for any video game, you can tell it's popular or not if you have Safe Search off, because yeah, okay, yep.

01:47:37.820 --> 01:47:40.860

Tom: It is about a brother and sister relationship, so...

01:47:42.040 --> 01:47:43.560

Phil: Yeah, I'm not going to look.

01:47:43.960 --> 01:47:45.000

Tom: It writes itself.

01:47:45.480 --> 01:47:47.200

Phil: Yeah, I'm not going to look.

01:47:47.980 --> 01:47:48.940

Phil: Anything else on this one?

01:47:49.920 --> 01:47:55.100

Tom: Yeah, I just wanted to say the other notable thing about it is this is a genuine mid-tier game.

01:47:56.420 --> 01:47:57.160

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:47:57.200 --> 01:47:58.340

Phil: So, you know, for me...

01:47:58.360 --> 01:48:16.020

Tom: Published by Focus Home Interactive, by a developer who makes their career, clearly makes their real money, which allows them to have made a couple of original titles from their hack work on licensed titles.

01:48:16.040 --> 01:48:19.620

Tom: So, it's nice to see that these are still going around.

01:48:19.880 --> 01:48:22.360

Phil: It is, and I'm glad I now know about Asobo.

01:48:22.420 --> 01:48:24.700

Phil: That's great, so I'll be keeping an eye on them.

01:48:24.720 --> 01:48:45.320

Tom: And it's doing what you want out of mid-tier game, because while gameplay-wise it is very much inspired by Our Charters and The Last of Us, structurally, in terms of the way it interprets that, it's doing something pretty interesting and original, albeit it only really works towards the end.

01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:51.900

Tom: And setting-wise, it is classic mid-tier creative freedom.

01:48:53.140 --> 01:48:53.980

Phil: Which is what I love.

01:48:55.580 --> 01:49:04.220

Phil: Obviously, when I first looked at it, I got vibes of The Order, which would kind of fit that bill as well, even though it was produced by Sony, it was made by a small developer.

01:49:05.780 --> 01:49:07.560

Phil: Yeah, so alright, well thanks for that.

01:49:10.320 --> 01:49:23.780

Tom: While we're on the topic of Inquisitions though, I do have to bring up the social Inquisition, which has hilariously afflicted a lot of comedy, works of comedy going around at the moment.

01:49:24.440 --> 01:49:37.820

Tom: I believe Chris Lilly's work, Little Britain, and The Mighty Bush have been removed from various streaming devices.

01:49:38.840 --> 01:49:58.580

Tom: And I bring this up just because it is absolutely hilarious that Summer Heights High would be removed on the basis of blackface and racism, when Summer Heights High does indeed feature Chris Lilly playing an islander.

01:49:58.880 --> 01:50:01.600

Tom: But I believe you've seen Summer Heights High, right?

01:50:02.900 --> 01:50:03.580

Phil: Yeah, I have.

01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:07.100

Phil: I'm familiar with it, and I know the character you're talking about.

01:50:07.560 --> 01:50:07.860

Tom: Yep.

01:50:10.860 --> 01:50:12.200

Phil: It's an Australian-based...

01:50:12.960 --> 01:50:22.340

Phil: Well, basically, there's a comedian named Chris Lilly who is good at doing, or is noted for doing, what do you call it, character work, I guess, where he'll play multiple...

01:50:22.360 --> 01:50:23.420

Tom: I would say he's good at it.

01:50:23.660 --> 01:50:35.600

Phil: Yeah, he'll play multiple characters in a single episode, and typically they're done in the style of The Office, so there's a lot of, you know, staring at the camera, break the fourth wall.

01:50:35.620 --> 01:50:37.140

Phil: Yeah, mockumentaries, exactly.

01:50:38.200 --> 01:50:40.020

Phil: And so that's been removed.

01:50:40.400 --> 01:50:45.880

Phil: I had heard about Little Britain being removed from the BBC streaming.

01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:51.260

Tom: Yes, I believe Chris Lilley's shows have been removed from Netflix.

01:50:52.220 --> 01:50:53.160

Phil: Okay, wow.

01:50:54.480 --> 01:50:57.500

Phil: That's because they feature Blackface.

01:50:58.680 --> 01:50:59.040

Tom: Yes.

01:50:59.920 --> 01:51:05.260

Tom: Well, they don't really feature Blackface, because here's something that I think has been missed.

01:51:05.280 --> 01:51:12.200

Tom: Blackface refers to an American vaudeville tradition.

01:51:13.520 --> 01:51:21.220

Tom: Blackface does not refer to anyone playing someone of a different race, or at least it shouldn't.

01:51:21.340 --> 01:51:29.820

Tom: And if it does, one can only be against someone playing someone of a different race on the basis of races.

01:51:29.840 --> 01:51:32.740

Tom: It's my understanding of the concept of racism.

01:51:33.180 --> 01:51:42.840

Tom: I can understand being against blackface, given that blackface was an anti-black racist depiction of black people.

01:51:43.580 --> 01:52:05.800

Tom: But being against someone playing someone of another race implies that it is impossible to empathize with other races and creatively depict them in a manner that may be enlightening or interesting, which is entirely a racist perspective.

01:52:06.560 --> 01:52:21.900

Tom: But that's not why I bring up the hilarity of Summer Heights High being removed from things, because Chris Lilly's character Jonah in Summer Heights High had several friends who were all played by islanders in the show.

01:52:21.920 --> 01:52:47.300

Tom: So on the basis that this is blackface, and I presume probably most of this group of people also would have wanted greater representation for minority groups on scene screens, you were removing a show that had multiple islander characters, certainly more than any other Australian show that I can think of off the top of my head.

01:52:47.940 --> 01:52:59.000

Tom: And in terms of the content of the show and certainly the depiction of Jonah, there's literally no way for anything to be interpreted as being racist.

01:52:59.300 --> 01:53:01.700

Tom: If anything, it is certainly anti-racist.

01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:21.120

Tom: And the other notable thing about Summer Heights High in particular is, while The Castle is a famous depiction of poor people, and Kath and Kim, for instance, as well, in the Australian mental spirit, they're working class, those depictions.

01:53:21.320 --> 01:53:25.020

Tom: But The Castle, for instance, they're certainly not poor.

01:53:25.040 --> 01:53:28.080

Tom: They've got a holiday home, multiple cars.

01:53:28.400 --> 01:53:31.140

Tom: They're obviously a well-off working class family.

01:53:31.480 --> 01:53:37.660

Tom: Summer Heights High in Jonah is a positive, empathetic depiction.

01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:55.020

Tom: And not only a positive, empathetic depiction of someone who is actually poor, but someone who is persecuted, often unfairly, by an institution, in this case, public education.

01:53:55.540 --> 01:54:00.920

Tom: And this is apparently something that should not be shown because it is racist.

01:54:02.160 --> 01:54:03.840

Tom: I do not really understand that.

01:54:06.500 --> 01:54:10.700

Phil: Well, you can file all of that sort of activity as absolutely missing the point.

01:54:10.840 --> 01:54:13.000

Phil: And context is everything.

01:54:14.700 --> 01:54:17.440

Phil: And I don't want to live a life without context.

01:54:18.260 --> 01:54:18.900

Phil: And I don't.

01:54:19.200 --> 01:54:23.320

Phil: But, I mean, all this is doing is highlighting people's ignorance, really.

01:54:23.820 --> 01:54:26.300

Phil: And to me, there's nothing more deplorable than ignorance.

01:54:28.580 --> 01:54:30.860

Phil: Yeah, so really sad way to end out the show.

01:54:31.540 --> 01:54:35.860

Phil: Surely you've got something more positive to share.

01:54:36.920 --> 01:54:47.780

Tom: Well, the only more positive thing that I would have to share would be my thoughts on whether Mine Camp or Leviathan is worse.

01:54:48.060 --> 01:54:55.500

Tom: And which is the best of The Turner Diaries, Submission and The Camp of the Saints.

01:54:56.820 --> 01:55:01.240

Tom: So I think that would probably not be a more positive way to end the show.

01:55:03.820 --> 01:55:11.780

Phil: I have no idea what you're talking about with the second instance, but in terms of Leviathan, and that was of course what we know.

01:55:11.800 --> 01:55:15.460

Phil: We're not going to get into it at this point.

01:55:15.680 --> 01:55:16.820

Tom: We will in the next show.

01:55:16.840 --> 01:55:21.760

Tom: I also began Grid, the 2019 version.

01:55:22.600 --> 01:55:23.580

Phil: Oh, let me write that down.

01:55:24.700 --> 01:55:33.860

Tom: And that would be a more positive way to win the show, but that deserves more in-depth first impressions than I believe we have time for.

01:55:33.880 --> 01:55:36.220

Phil: Well, I think Leviathan...

01:55:36.780 --> 01:55:42.820

Phil: Clearly Leviathan is the worst of the two because it is the genesis of it, and MineCamp does not exist.

01:55:43.260 --> 01:55:43.900

Tom: Exactly.

01:55:44.480 --> 01:55:47.260

Phil: Without Leviathan to start with.

01:55:48.020 --> 01:55:55.860

Tom: MineCamp can basically be summarized as Leviathan plus Hitler randomly mentioning the Jews.

01:55:57.080 --> 01:55:58.020

Tom: That's basically...

01:55:59.320 --> 01:56:03.560

Tom: And also taking 800 pages as well.

01:56:04.460 --> 01:56:10.300

Phil: It's basically like a cheap pulp fiction paperback version, you know, rip-off.

01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:11.960

Phil: The guy wasn't a good painter.

01:56:11.980 --> 01:56:13.900

Phil: He wasn't a good writer.

01:56:19.160 --> 01:56:20.640

Tom: I think he was an okay painter.

01:56:21.680 --> 01:56:24.520

Tom: He was an okay painter.

01:56:24.800 --> 01:56:28.240

Tom: He was an interesting writer.

01:56:29.420 --> 01:56:32.600

Tom: I wouldn't say good, but I think there is merit to his writing.

01:56:33.160 --> 01:56:36.420

Tom: And as a leader, he was obviously one of the greatest ever.

01:56:36.460 --> 01:56:38.440

Tom: I think that's undeniably the case.

01:56:40.100 --> 01:56:42.380

Tom: But he certainly had not a single original thought.

01:56:44.540 --> 01:56:46.780

Phil: You want to talk about hack writers?

01:56:46.800 --> 01:56:48.100

Phil: Mussolini was a hack.

01:56:49.040 --> 01:56:50.020

Tom: He didn't write anything.

01:56:51.020 --> 01:56:53.220

Tom: His book was ghost-ridden.

01:56:53.240 --> 01:56:54.900

Tom: And he's absolutely hilarious.

01:56:55.700 --> 01:57:01.480

Tom: If you read one fascist book, read Mussolini's book on fascism.

01:57:01.880 --> 01:57:03.840

Tom: It is a laugh riot.

01:57:04.120 --> 01:57:05.100

Tom: It is a laugh a minute.

01:57:05.320 --> 01:57:05.900

Tom: Read that.

01:57:06.240 --> 01:57:15.240

Tom: But the one thing I will say about Hitler, and I've been reading a lot of racist stuff, so when I say Summer Heights High isn't racist, I know what I'm fucking talking about.

01:57:16.280 --> 01:57:38.400

Tom: The thing that I like about Hitler, and it's the one thing I like about Hitler, he's possibly the only racist that I've come across who is unashamedly racist, admits he's racist, and admonishes other people for not being racist, and at no point does he call anti-racist or liberals the real racists.

01:57:40.700 --> 01:57:48.060

Tom: Whereas that's the go-to for racist people, is everyone is racist except for racists.

01:57:49.740 --> 01:57:56.260

Tom: No matter how racist they are, no matter how acceptable racism in the era, they're from, they are not racist.

01:57:58.300 --> 01:58:02.000

Phil: Well, thanks for, that is actually a better point to leave the show on.

01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:05.840

Phil: Thank you everyone for listening to episode 126 of The Game Under Podcast.

01:58:05.980 --> 01:58:09.540

Phil: I have been Phil Fogg, you have been Tom Towers.

01:58:09.580 --> 01:58:14.560

Tom: And for the record, the winner of the fiction is Submission.

01:58:15.300 --> 01:58:24.360

Tom: The Camp of the Saints is the, probably the most disgusting and vile fiction book ever written, but it makes literally no sense.

01:58:24.380 --> 01:58:26.660

Tom: Read the Wikipedia plot summary.

01:58:27.040 --> 01:58:29.420

Tom: It is that nonsensical in the book itself.

01:58:29.860 --> 01:58:39.960

Tom: Submission is a plausible, logical, interesting, absolutely terribly written, mediocre, banal book, but it makes sense.

01:58:40.980 --> 01:58:43.780

Tom: How France got to that point makes absolutely no sense.

01:58:43.800 --> 01:58:56.480

Tom: So the book itself, beyond its depiction of the events that actually occur in the book, doesn't make any sense, but that's one step above The Turner Diaries and, sorry, The Camp of the Saints.

01:58:56.500 --> 01:58:58.400

Tom: So Submission is the winner there.

01:58:59.840 --> 01:59:01.940

Phil: Okay, we'll have to come back to that one definitely.

01:59:04.900 --> 01:59:05.380

Phil: Let's see.

01:59:05.400 --> 01:59:12.560

Phil: Okay, so we'll be recording another show soon, I guess, but we've got to get through some of those 1600 games first.

01:59:12.640 --> 01:59:14.380

Phil: So with that, good night everybody.

Tom: And please look forward to Grid 2019.

Tom: Death and Taxes, Sludge something or other, and who knows what other weird indie shit.

Phil: Sludge life, yeah.

Phil: Right on.