Game Under Episode 8

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0:00:37 Intro
0:01:12 Trademark Banter
0:04:15 Red Dead Redemption: Undead First Impressions
0:04:50 Resident Evil: Revelations and discussion on back-tracking
0:12:20 Police Quest
0:17:15 Pirate's Booty
0:21:00 Normal
0:21:30 Ladders in Video Games
0:23:20 Metro: Last Light Final Thoughts
0:26:30 What's worse? Bad enemy AI or bad Ally AI?

Feature Number One
0:39:10 Next Gen Graphics?

News
0:59:44 Xbox One Update (What if Sony does the same thing?)
1:01:55 MLB The Show. Outrage.
1:06:06 Blizzard is Melting
1:11:50 Sonic Mario Galaxy
1:13:30 Warren Spector is a Clown (and Wolfenstein 3D trivia)

First Impressions
1:17:40 Costume Quest (and parental advice)
1:19:00 Great Intros in Games
1:21:40 Septerra Core [sic]
1:25:25 To the Moon
1:38:10 Autism
1:42:30 Proteus

YakuzaKillzONE Minute
1:50:10 Wii U Version is an "experiment"

Deadly Premonition Special (Spoiler Free)
1:55:47 Tom Gets Sucked In

 Transcript:

  Phil: Welcome to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: This week, we'll be going over the week's news, giving hands-on impressions of Half-Life, yes, Half-Life, the PC original, Costume Quest, Metro To the Moon, Proteus and Metro Last Light, as well as a couple of featured conversations about next-gen graphics and Deadly Premonition.

Tom: Did you forget Resident Evil Revelations, or was I just not listening?

Phil: And Resident Evil Revelations.

Tom: So says Tom and Phil.

Tom: Hello and welcome to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: On this episode, we will be discussing a great breadth of games that are now totally irrelevant.

Tom: We're back to our old school style of discussing what you do not care about, but apart from that, we'll also be discussing Xbox One, which by this point, you probably also don't care about.

Tom: Next-gen graphics, which you also probably don't care about, and Deadly Premonition, which you probably do actually care about if there's any justice in the world.

Tom: So shall I just step straight into the impressions?

Phil: Well, of course, we can't do that because we've got to have some trademark banter first.

Tom: That's true.

Phil: That's true.

Phil: I went on a very rare holiday yesterday.

Phil: I went over to the coast.

Phil: For reasons we won't go into here, I was stumbling around the street wearing shoes without socks.

Tom: I'm guessing this has something to do with purple drank.

Phil: No, this time it wasn't.

Phil: But I was like, I need to buy socks.

Phil: So I went into the grocery store where they didn't have any socks.

Phil: I went into the newsagent, no socks.

Phil: So I went into a surf apparel store.

Tom: Can I just ask, were you wearing shoes or were you just in bare feet?

Phil: I was wearing shoes, but I didn't pack in...

Tom: That just kind of destroys the whole story.

Tom: I mean, the intro, the image it conjures up is you stumbling around barefoot in some coastal town somewhere.

Phil: Beachside community.

Phil: So, no, I was walking around and I didn't pack socks because I didn't actually pack any clothes until the last seconds before I left my house.

Phil: And I couldn't find any white socks, so I was just like, well, I'm sure there are some in the car or I can buy some when I get there.

Phil: So I got there.

Tom: Do you generally have random socks in your car?

Phil: Well, in California, it's a habit to pack walking shoes and socks in your car in case you're driving home from work and there's an earthquake and you have to walk for a great distance.

Phil: So part of your in-car earthquake kit is socks and shoes.

Phil: And I don't live in California anymore.

Phil: So I walk into this surf shop, and I ask the clerk behind the counter, I say, I know this is a bit of a stretch, but do you have any socks here?

Phil: And he's all, socks?

Phil: I'm all, yeah, socks.

Phil: He's all like, well, what do you mean?

Tom: Board socks?

Phil: I said, you know, for your feet, they go in between your feet and your shoes.

Phil: He's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we got socks back there in the back corner.

Tom: See, now that's, if they hadn't had any socks, confusion might have been understandable.

Tom: But the fact that they actually did was selling socks.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Didn't understand what you were asking.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Foggles the mind.

Phil: I said, I know it's a stretch, but do you sell any socks?

Phil: He's all, what?

Phil: You know, and I had to describe to him the concept of socks.

Phil: And then he's like, oh, yeah, socks.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Maybe there's some sort of surf-related slang for socks.

Phil: Well, that's what I was wondering.

Phil: It's like there's a piece of equipment for surfing that is sock, you know, they call them socks, you know, like something you put on the fins and they're like, but then they'd have those as well.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Well, there are those rubber things you can put on your feet that give you extra grip.

Phil: Right, right.

Tom: But if he was thinking that, he should have known what it was as well.

Phil: And said, yeah, man, yeah, totally, dude, we got socks over there.

Phil: He wouldn't sound like that because I was in Australia.

Phil: Yeah, he might have.

Phil: Also, since we're in the banter section, I get to say whatever I want.

Phil: I just put in Red Dead Redemption Undead.

Phil: And that is hilarious.

Phil: It's basically giving the House of the Dead overkill treatment to Red Dead Redemption.

Phil: So it's so far so good.

Tom: And it works?

Phil: Oh, totally, totally.

Phil: And it's done with a lot of humor, you know, as you would have to do that.

Phil: But, you know, speaking of horror games, you were going to give us some final thoughts on Resident Evil Revelations for PC home console, right?

Tom: Indeed, I was.

Tom: And I'm basically just going to be repeating what I said in the first podcast.

Tom: But why not?

Tom: So from what I've played, which is basically Resident Evil so it's one game, but I'm happy to say this is the best Resident Evil game since Resident Evil easily, in terms of single player.

Tom: As I was getting at in the first impressions of Revelations, the pacing really is just excellent.

Tom: They use the ammo absolutely perfectly to put a tempo to the gameplay, to give it a flow, and the rate that they introduce new enemies also works quite well.

Tom: There is a bit of backtracking, but it's generally here where they reuse new enemies you might have come across or introduce new ones.

Tom: With the new enemies, you can't necessarily just fight them the same way you fought old ones.

Tom: So when you're moving through older environments and backtracking, because of the fact that you've got to approach the enemies differently, it makes the environments feel interesting, despite you having moved through them before.

Tom: So it really is just an excellent package.

Tom: The story is...

Tom: Once again, I would have to say this is probably the best Resident Evil story, and it is a Resident Evil story, so who the hell cares, right?

Tom: But it is hilarious.

Tom: It hits all the right notes.

Tom: It's extremely funny, and it's also got random political comments just shoved in there that are so ridiculously blatant.

Phil: From character.

Tom: Exactly, exactly.

Phil: One thing you said there before you get on to the rest of it is that in backtracking in a game, I've never encountered positive backtracking in a game, but you said in this instance, it's made fresh with the introduction of new enemies, right?

Phil: So you're going back through those same environments.

Tom: There's a lot of backtracking in Resident Evil and to a degree, at certain points as well.

Tom: So did it bother you in then?

Phil: No, I don't remember that at all.

Phil: The most recent game I played was

Phil: Obviously, we played it together online.

Phil: Where's the backtracking in that?

Tom: No, there is a bit of backtracking.

Tom: For example, in the swamp mission, where you're on a boat, you've got to go from area to area.

Tom: That's what I would class as backtracking, because you've always got to go back to the same point.

Phil: No, see, I was talking about, like, really bad backtracking, like in Halo

Tom: It's worse than that.

Tom: It is worse than that.

Tom: It's worse than that.

Tom: It's not on, like, say, Metroid Prime level of backtracking, where you're very, very often moving through the same areas.

Tom: But it's a notch above that, but it's also a notch below something like Resident Evil

Tom: So I would say we're definitely getting into the territory where it would be annoying you.

Tom: But I think it wouldn't be as annoying as it would be in many games because of how they do change things up more than they do in something like Metroid Prime, where you're often just fighting the same enemies as you go through the same areas.

Phil: I could totally handle that.

Phil: I mean, as long as it...

Phil: Because the environments in these games are generally so generic anyway, as long as it's fresh enemies, I think in Halo they had you backtrack through a large section of the game which was basically a copy and pasted level over and over and over again.

Phil: But they didn't introduce any new enemies.

Phil: You're basically just fighting the same guys that you fought on the way there.

Phil: And there's nothing worse than that, except perhaps just coming back through an area with no enemies at all, just seeing the dead enemies that you killed prior.

Phil: So, okay, well, that sounds pretty good.

Tom: Yep, and the other thing I wanted to cover is, and this is an issue, I was saying that it basically had the look of a PlayStation game, right?

Tom: An original PlayStation game.

Phil: Right, I remember you saying that.

Tom: And I stand by that statement.

Tom: But I would say, having watched some videos of it on YouTube, this is not an issue with the DS, though a couple of things might be.

Tom: There's a really, absolutely hilariously bad water effect when you're underwater, which is basically taken directly out of the original Metal Gear Solid when you're underwater.

Tom: It does the same distortion.

Tom: No better than that whatsoever.

Tom: But apart from that, looking at videos on YouTube, it looks excellent.

Tom: It's got none of these problems with it being very two-dimensional in look, even on YouTube videos, where you obviously don't have a D effect.

Tom: So as far as I can see, this is an issue with a lot of HD remakes, where because they're basically applying a high resolution than what the game was made for, you're then losing a lot of basically things that obscure what you're looking at.

Tom: So you get to see all the flaws.

Tom: Now, even if you're doing what you're doing with Revelations where they have redone a lot of the textures and remodel a lot of the areas so that it does look better, you're still effectively taking what is a lower fidelity image and attempting to transmit it at a higher fidelity than what it was originally intended for.

Tom: And this is a problem in any medium full stop.

Tom: For example, if you go back and look at an old episode of Dr.

Tom: Who, a lot of the things that look incredibly stupid, such as details on the costumes and all that sort of thing, are there because the original broadcast was done at such a low quality, they didn't bother getting rid of this sort of thing.

Tom: And by the same token, in broadcasts of that nature, with the remastering, you do get things that would have looked worse in the original broadcast than they look now that have been digitally restored so they look better.

Tom: But at the same time, you're effectively taking what was the overall aesthetic, and you're altering it to the point where you lose its intentions.

Phil: You said you can see all the floors, so at least it's better than Wolfenstein, because in that game there were no floors or ceilings.

Phil: There were just walls.

Tom: Yeah, I see what you did there.

Phil: See what I did there?

Phil: And also, if you look at faulty towers as well, they have walls that shake.

Phil: The sets were so terrible, and it's only when you buy...

Phil: For original broadcasts, you never would have picked up on any of that.

Tom: Or even on VHS, it's harder to see.

Phil: Exactly, right, because it's so muddy and whatnot.

Phil: That might be an argument for...

Phil: There's a lot of people that say, you shouldn't colorize films or digitally upgrade them.

Phil: And certainly, you look at a movie like ET and that's certainly the case.

Phil: But maybe in some of these, if you can just take care of some of the physical things that were wrong in the world, that were only being detected or not being detected because of the low tech, maybe that is a point where it would be appropriate to pretty them up.

Phil: Keep the originals, of course, but maybe on a collector's DVD, have the visually upgraded content as well.

Tom: That's what I would like to see, in fact, on these sort of remakes, is actually include the vanilla original version of The Game for comparison.

Tom: I would personally be quite interested if they were to do something like that, but that probably would not have a great deal of appeal to most people.

Phil: Oh, I was going to say that this week I downloaded Police Quest, the Sierra game, and the first one, at least, comes with either a remade version or the original version.

Phil: And, of course, I'm just playing the version, and that's great.

Phil: But I do like the inclusion of the other version.

Phil: It's always nice to have the choice.

Phil: And I think with any of these kinds of restorations, like with ET or whatever, if you're going to release it, as with Star Wars, if you're going to release a remade version of it, that's great.

Phil: Do whatever you want, but always include the original, so people can appreciate that if they want to.

Tom: I think the Monkey Island games have also done that with their remastered director's cuts or whatever they call them.

Tom: They also include the option to turn that off.

Phil: That's great.

Phil: That's good.

Phil: That's respectful.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: And the only thing is, this could be done fine, I would say, but I'm not sure it applies so easily to console games, because with PC games, you can alter a lot of options, right?

Tom: You can basically have the game technically presented however you want it to, and if it's well-optimized, the same aesthetic is going to be there.

Tom: And what I'm thinking is maybe console games, they master it too specifically so that if you alter it, even when you're remaking stuff, it results in something that is not completely true to the original, because I came across the exact same sorts of issues with a lack of two-dimensionality, flatness, and weightlessness in the MDKHD version.

Tom: And looking at videos of stuff like ICO in HD and Shadow of the Colossus, and other HD remakes, this seems to be a common problem that I've come across, whereas you can take a really old computer game, you can play D in HD, and it's still going to look great, and still going to look like the original intention.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And to that point, our friend Derek from Canada, he always rails against the Super Mario All-Stars cart, the cart that came with the Super Nintendo, that has the remastered Mario Brothers games through in the Super Mario World style.

Phil: And then of course, this was re-released a couple of years ago for the Wii as well.

Phil: And like that's an example where, you know, I grew up with the SNES version of those games.

Phil: So I didn't see a problem with it, but someone who likes the original versions is, you know, they should get to play the original versions if they want.

Phil: That's something where you could include it.

Phil: And he makes the same argument with Final Fantasy

Phil: So I grew up with the GBA version of it, but he played the NES version of it.

Phil: So he thinks that the GBA version is an anathema.

Phil: I think that the NES version is unplayable, but both of them should be available to someone who buys a game whenever it's remade.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And we can get into this more.

Phil: We're going to have a Deadly Premonition special at the end of this podcast, where there's a director's cut of that game, and I've got a little bit more to say about this kind of thing in that segment as well.

Tom: You finally discovered what special is.

Phil: Yes, yes, I have.

Phil: And that all shall be revealed later in the podcast.

Tom: So now, I believe it is your turn.

Phil: Oh, that's it for Resident Evil Revelations?

Tom: Well, I mean, there's not much more to say, is there?

Tom: It's excellent.

Tom: And we also had the...

Tom: No, let's say one final thing is an interesting thing I found in it.

Tom: This game has quite a few references to Metal Gear Solid.

Tom: And there was another one which I've completely forgotten about.

Tom: So we're just going to go for the water distortion one.

Tom: At one point, the two protagonists of the game have to scuba dive down to a sunken ship.

Tom: And the introduction to this is straight out of Metal Gear Solid.

Tom: You know, the great scene where Snake is swimming through the water to Mos Eisley or wherever he was going?

Phil: I think Mos Eisley...

Phil: Isn't that in Star Wars?

Tom: Probably.

Tom: See, it's called something like Shadow Moses.

Tom: Shadow Moses.

Phil: Okay, yeah.

Tom: You can see how I was easily confused.

Tom: But are you familiar with that scene where he's scuba diving in there?

Phil: At the start of the game?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, of course.

Phil: I've tried to play the game like four or five times.

Tom: Yeah, so they've basically got that scene in there, which was pretty cool, I thought.

Tom: So just the final thing to end on, in an amazing example of Resident Evil stupidity.

Tom: So you're on this sunken ship, right?

Tom: And what's the first thing that you need to do?

Tom: What's the first thing you want to do on a sunken ship, full of water?

Phil: Well, I try and find the captain of the pirate ship and find his booty, and then open up his chest and get the gold doubloons and then rise to the surface and then buy a Ferrari.

Tom: No, that was close, though.

Tom: What the first thing you have to do is turn on the electricity.

Phil: Ha ha ha!

Phil: In an under ship, in a boat under the water.

Phil: You're gonna zap yourself.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Okay, now we really are done.

Phil: I'm closing the book on Resident Evil Revelations.

Tom: That's a perfect note to end on.

Tom: You can't end on a better note than that anyway.

Phil: It's closed.

Phil: Well, that was a final thought.

Phil: Here's a first impression.

Phil: I played Half-Life for the PC, but essentially for the first time this week, and I'm liking it.

Phil: I'm actually liking it.

Phil: I'm surprised by how many things are brought over to the sequel.

Tom: I was expecting you to say, I'm surprised by how much you hate it.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I mean, the first part of the game is really terrible when you're in the nuclear research lab and you're just basically trying to get out of it.

Phil: And the worst part about it is not the controls or the visuals or anything like that.

Phil: The problem is basically just learning what the controls are, right?

Phil: And learning that you are capable of crouching and jumping.

Tom: Did they tell you how to do all that in the tutorial?

Phil: What tutorial?

Tom: There's a tutorial.

Tom: Didn't you do the tutorial?

Phil: No.

Tom: Okay, there's a tutorial on the main menu that's called tutorial or something.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I always skip the prologue to books, and I always skip the tutorials whenever I can.

Phil: So I probably would have enjoyed this game a bit more if I knew how to crouch and use equipment and things like that.

Tom: Yeah, you should.

Tom: The tutorial was better than the game from what I played of the game, but continue.

Phil: Well, I'm using Wasdy with a mouse because there's no other option, unfortunately.

Phil: And so, but like I was saying, I'm surprised by how many things are brought over from the sequel.

Phil: And in the same way that playing Crackdown diminished my respect for Infamous, playing Half-Life diminishes my respect for Half-Life significantly because all the things I thought were wondrous and original that were in the sequel actually were just ripped straight from the first game.

Phil: And it basically makes the second game an HD upgrade.

Phil: So in the first one, they have the in-engine cutscenes where you can walk around, which I thought was the first...

Phil: You know, I thought that was the first for Half-Life

Tom: No.

Phil: Again, hugely...

Tom: I was just telling you in...

Phil: I know, but...

Tom: Just like a few weeks ago, this.

Phil: I was telling you.

Phil: I thought you were talking about Half-Life though.

Tom: No.

Phil: The enemies, like the ceiling watsies, the things that have their mucus trails down in the ground that you can use to pick you up, those are in it.

Phil: I can see the appeal of the game at the time.

Phil: I mean, it was basically like an office simulator, not office the productivity software, but being in an office.

Phil: After having games like Doom and Quake being set in these unrealistic worlds, being able to blow shit up in an office environment is pretty cool.

Phil: It has generous auto-saving, and like the sequel, it starts on a train, and I think this is kind of a message to the player that this is going to be a linear game, so you're going to be on tracks pretty much for this entire game.

Phil: It's a bit easy.

Phil: The most difficult thing about the game so far has been the level design and figuring out where to go next.

Tom: And there's no difficulty option or anything?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: I'm playing it on normal.

Phil: So I usually play on normal.

Tom: If there isn't normal, there's presumably a difficulty option that includes hard.

Phil: Right.

Phil: That's what I meant.

Phil: So I have a question for you that you can think about, and I'm going to make a comment.

Phil: So the question to think about is ladders.

Phil: Has any game done them well?

Phil: Has any game done ladders well?

Phil: And now, while you think about that, I will just say, first person platforming.

Phil: I mean, stop it.

Phil: Stop it.

Phil: Stop it.

Phil: Especially with was-the-only controls.

Phil: Stop making me jump up on crates and then jump from a crate to a crate over a pit of toxic waste, for example.

Phil: Or try and traverse a narrow crossbeam.

Phil: Just stop it.

Phil: Game developers, stop making me do platforming moves in first person.

Phil: It's ridiculous, it's stupid, and it most definitely is not fun.

Phil: So I have my own opinions on the matter, but have ladders ever been done properly in a game?

Tom: Well, I'm going to go for a game that did do first person platforming well, but also did ladders quite well, and that is Mirror's Edge.

Phil: Ah, you know, I have two games listed here for games that did ladders well, and Mirror's Edge is one of them.

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: So, kudos, right?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: What's the other one, though, is the question?

Phil: Well, the other one is Riddick, Chronicles of Riddick for the original Xbox.

Phil: It was re-released for the PlayStation and Xbox

Phil: Now, it's a first-person action game.

Tom: Also on PC.

Phil: And it is a first-person action game, but when you go to a ladder, it moves back into the third person, right?

Phil: Which is perfect.

Phil: Just pull the camera back, as opposed to pushing forward and then pushing up, and then keep pushing forward, and then you're going up the ladder, and then you're going down the ladder, and then...

Phil: Okay, well, that was my first impressions of Half-Life.

Phil: Do you have any more first impressions, or are we going to move on to final thoughts in a couple of games?

Tom: I have got no first impressions whatsoever, so we're going to move straight into my final thoughts of Last Line, which is about to make me lie when I finish talking about it.

Tom: So as we know, we heard me talking about this last week, mainly about the problems with the AI and whatnot, and how excellent it looked.

Phil: Oh, you thought it looked excellent?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: These last lines.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: Cool.

Phil: Keep going, because I did play Metro this week.

Tom: I know where you were trying to go with that.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But this is the last line.

Tom: So a while ago, I was talking about the problems with the AI and also with the gunplay, to agree, but I can't remember if I said that basically the lightness of the gunplay ended up being beneficial to the gameplay because it resulted in a high focus on stealth, and it made the, when you did get into a fight, very fast and punchy.

Tom: So that ended up working well.

Tom: I can't remember if I said that in the last one, but just in case.

Phil: You did.

Tom: So I'm saying it now then.

Tom: So the other thing about this is the AI does not get any better.

Tom: It stays this bad throughout.

Tom: And the other thing I was saying was how excellent when you're up the top.

Tom: And once again, this was too long ago for me to remember what the hell I said.

Tom: So I'm just going to assume I do not say this.

Tom: So the best thing about this game is the way it uses ammunition and filters.

Tom: And whenever you go into a polluted area or above ground where everything is irradiated, you've got to wear a gas mask.

Tom: Now, you have to regularly change your gas mask filters because they somehow magically get inundated with radiation and whatnot in a matter of a few minutes.

Tom: So every few minutes, while you're also concentrating on fighting, you've got to be changing your gas mask filters, which means you've got to be scavenging the environment, looking for gas mask filters, as well as ammo, which is reasonably limited in certain areas, while you're also fighting off monsters.

Tom: So it results in this very good and probably quite original compared to many first person shooters that might have a focus on limited ammo and an extreme sense of survival because of the gas mask mechanic, where if you're not doing something that is more sort of objective-based and loot-based, where you're looking for items, you will end up dying.

Phil: I found the gas mask thing to kind of harken back to a game that we've both played, which is The Thing.

Phil: I mean, really, you know, it really does add to the game.

Phil: I'm surprised that more games haven't done this kind of thing, other than it is supremely annoying, but it does put you into a different state of mind in terms of giving you a limited amount of time to achieve an objective.

Phil: Usually that's highly annoying, particularly when it's a countdown.

Phil: When it's arbitrary and they put a counter up in the top corner, like you've got only two minutes to escape this burning building or whatever.

Tom: Yeah, that is just annoying and intrusive.

Phil: That's just annoying, but if it's more like, you know, here's a gas tank, you can only breathe for a certain amount of time.

Phil: We're not going to put a counter on the screen, but you know, you got to keep moving.

Tom: Just to clarify, this is not a game about petrol sniffing.

Phil: Oh.

Phil: I won't make any jokes.

Phil: This is The Game Under Podcast, folks.

Tom: You just did make the joke accidentally.

Phil: I didn't actually.

Tom: You said gas tank.

Phil: Okay, so what is worse in the game?

Phil: Bad enemy AI or bad ally AI?

Tom: It would depend on the game.

Tom: Here, the bad AI, if the gas masks and ammo was better balanced throughout the whole game, it wouldn't be an issue whatsoever.

Tom: I think you can get away with...

Tom: It depends on how the allies are used as well.

Tom: Let's look at Metro

Tom: There's quite a few moments with allies as there is in Last Light.

Tom: Now, in Last Light, the allies, at least on Hard, are just completely useless.

Tom: They're % irrelevant to what you're doing.

Tom: They don't really damage the enemies much, and the enemies basically ignore them completely.

Tom: In Metro the allies can actually kill the monsters, at least on the Ranger difficulty, where the enemies are weaker and weapons do more damage.

Tom: So during these sections, you can actually basically just let the AI wander around doing most of the dirty work for you, which I would say results in the same sense of boredom and easiness that is an issue with the AI in Last Light.

Tom: But in Last Light, you can compensate for that with the amount of ammo you give to the player and the amount of filters.

Tom: But they don't balance that well the whole time.

Tom: For example, the final climax of Last Light is a section where you're basically given the help of one of the characters in the game who gives you superpowers or something to that effect, which helps you see where enemies are and that sort of thing.

Tom: So this is basically meant to be a big empowering moment in the game where for the rest of the game, they've been making you feel very weak for the most part through giving you a small amount of ammo and a small amount of filters.

Tom: But they use so many filters and so much ammo during this section that it completely takes away from the effect that the superpowers you receive have.

Tom: So instead of feeling empowered by what makes sense in the story and would be effective, you've basically just got a shitload of ammo and filters.

Tom: I think I amassed something like almost minutes of free filter time, and I had hundreds upon hundreds of bullets, which probably doesn't sound like that much compared to most shooters.

Tom: But here, if you've got over bullets, or even if you've got bullets, that is a ridiculous amount of ammo.

Phil: So instead of giving you true superpowers, they basically just turn the knob?

Tom: Well, they gave you true superpowers to a degree while also giving you so much ammo and filters that was basically more effective than the superpowers.

Tom: So the superpowers therefore had no impact on what you were doing.

Tom: Now, there is one rather dangerous problem with the limited amount of filters though, and that is the automatic checkpointing system that you come across mid-game.

Tom: So if you get to a certain area within the level, it autosaves.

Tom: Now, the issue is if you've got, say, let's say seconds left on your filter and you're desperately searching for another filter for an extra minute or two of air.

Tom: Now, if in your searches you accidentally move far ahead in the level, it's going to autosave there, and you could get to a point where you autosave and you've got like seconds of airtime left.

Tom: So when you die, you're going to spawn there again, and you might be seconds away from getting to the nearest filter.

Tom: So you're then effectively completely stuck, and there's no way out of it, and you simply got to restart the entire level.

Tom: And this almost happened to me in one stage.

Tom: I got lost in one of the levels.

Tom: Then I got to the end of the level after going through about minutes of my filters wandering around, attempting to find where the hell I was going.

Tom: And the end of the level was you hop on a raft, and the raft slowly floats away.

Tom: So at this stage, my filter had run out, and I was choking to death.

Tom: But luckily, I managed to not choke completely to death before the level ended.

Tom: And miraculously, as the next level started, I was not dead.

Tom: So if I had just been a few seconds slower, I would have been stuck in a loop, because it auto-saves as you hop on the raft.

Tom: So I would have gone on the raft, then died.

Tom: Then it would have reloaded on the raft, and I would have died again.

Phil: I love when games glitch to your favour.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Particularly in boss fights.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, this was actually directly following a boss fight, because I found the raft and thought, well, the mini-boss, I found the raft and thought, okay, I'm fine.

Tom: Then a giant......shrimp climbs out of the swamp, and I have to get out of there.

Tom: Otherwise, I would have been perfectly fine.

Phil: Was it a king prawn?

Tom: No.

Tom: It was a mutated king prawn, shall we say.

Phil: Right on.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So, just a final thing on this is, just on the fact that Ranger mode was not included.

Tom: Once again, now having played Ranger mode in apart from the reason that I've said previously, the thing that is just so good about it is, and I did probably go into this bit, but just to reemphasize it and take it in a slightly new direction, the lack of HUD completely changes the experience of the better.

Tom: So, to check how much ammo you've got, you've got to count how many shots you've fired.

Tom: You can check how much total ammo you've got by bringing up your journal, but you don't know how much is in your clip.

Tom: So, you've got to learn how much ammo each gun can use in their clip.

Tom: And so, you might be involved in a firefight, then you sneak off, and you've got to quickly open your journal to check how much ammo you have.

Tom: Apart from that, another thing is that you have otherwise, but it's the same sense of tactility that is so strong in the game, that is emphasized so good with Ranger mode, is you've got a torch, which you use very often, and it works on a battery.

Tom: So, to recharge the battery, you've got to take out your universal hand pump charger, and you've got to manually pump it up on the PC by basically spamming left click.

Tom: But it makes it a very tactile, a lot of hands-on experience.

Tom: It makes it extremely immersive.

Tom: So, if you remove the HUD and make it that, if you want to aim, you've got to look through the sights of your gun.

Tom: And if you want to check the ammo, you've got to look at your journal, and if you want to see how much time you've got left on your filters, you've got to look on your watch.

Tom: It makes it an extremely immersive experience, and it's a shame that this was not available to people to begin with in last lives.

Phil: Well, now, this is the, I think these are the guys that said that they didn't include it because it was a retail exclusive, right?

Tom: Well, it's not a retail exclusive.

Tom: It is, you pre-order it and you get it for free.

Tom: Otherwise, it's a paid DLC.

Phil: And I think, oh, really?

Phil: I thought they were going to give it to everyone for free after a certain point.

Tom: No, that was

Tom: They gave it to everyone for free.

Tom: Yeah, I don't think that's what they're giving this to people for free.

Phil: That sucks.

Phil: That is poor.

Phil: That is, you know, when I do rail against DLC, that's taking something out of a game that should have been there before, right?

Tom: And I mean, the thing is, if it was just an extremely hard mode, it would bother me less.

Tom: But the thing is, it is pretty much the best way to experience the game.

Tom: It fits perfectly with the narrative and the setting and the atmosphere, and it just completely changes the experience of playing the game, and mostly for the better.

Tom: So it makes it even worse than if it was just a hard mode.

Phil: I do suppose, though, that the people that like playing it on that level would have pre-ordered it anyway, perhaps.

Tom: Maybe, maybe.

Tom: Okay, so before we move on from last slide, despite all of its flaws, and here's the thing, in the first time we were discussing it, you said some guy gave it a out of

Tom: I can't remember what site they were for.

Tom: But looking back on having finished it, if you did not get into the atmosphere, and if you were playing it on something even easier than hard, I mean, it could easily come across as being worse than mediocre because the AI is so poor, and if you then got no challenge when you're fighting the monsters as well, it's just going to be boring wandering through a setting that is of a very niche appeal, and it ticks all the boxes for what people are annoyed by at the moment in first person shooter.

Tom: It is basically % gray, and it does have major flaws in it, so a out of I can easily see.

Tom: But this has basically become probably one of my favorite series now, and off air a while ago, you said to me this would be a hard game to review.

Tom: Now, I found it rather easy to review, but what I did find challenging about it was it was quite hard to score, because you could very easily make an argument for it being getting a score like a or a or something in that sort of area.

Tom: So I was wondering what your reason for saying it was a hard game to score was.

Phil: Well, I figured it would probably be a hard game to score and review, because it's got a really deep, complex backstory, an interesting presentation, an interesting story.

Phil: It's got a deeper philosophical thing than almost any other game going on in this back world.

Phil: But then the gameplay is seemingly rote, and then nothing really revolutionary.

Phil: And also, this is like the second or third game in the series at this point.

Tom: The second.

Phil: So, I don't know, second games in the series are kind of hard because they're sticking to the core material, and they're trying to introduce new things.

Phil: And there are notable exceptions, but generally the second game is kind of awkward, so that's probably what I was saying there.

Phil: And the same sort of thing that I was struggling with with Tomb Raider, where it's a game with a pretty good story, and technically proficient, and looks great, but it lacks the, you know, in that situation, the character I couldn't connect with.

Phil: So, yeah, that's probably what I was coming up with.

Tom: Well, they do do some interesting things with the gameplay, as I said, with the ammo management and the filters, which does make it a more sort of unique experience, but having played they've definitely attempted to make it more mainstream.

Tom: So, it probably would have actually been easier to approach, having known more about the original.

Tom: But the thing I found challenging about Scrawlion was the same thing with Tomb Raider, is mechanically it is perfect, or at least almost perfect.

Tom: Mechanically, it's perfectly fine, but there's more significant issues, significant technical issues that you can get into.

Tom: But the thing is the same with Tomb Raider.

Tom: Despite the major problems I had with it, I still found it an enthralling experience.

Tom: It was the same here.

Tom: So it's hard to store it where on the one hand, you're thinking technically I could easily give this something like a out of or a yet at the same time, I am enjoying it so much for other reasons.

Tom: So then you've got to basically decide whether you're going to go with your fanboyism or not.

Tom: And I went with my fanboyism.

Phil: In talking about these two games, Tomb Raider and Metro Last Light, obviously these games were both spectacular visually, which brings us to our next feature after our musical interlude here.

Phil: We're going to be talking about next-gen graphics.

Tom: Well, this was actually inspired by me playing Metro which was released in and I believe it still possibly holds the crown of being the most taxing PC game available.

Tom: Now, this is despite the fact that it does not look particularly good technically whatsoever.

Tom: Now, you went-

Phil: Yeah, I agree.

Phil: I gave it a quick spin this week, and I mean, there's gotta be something I can do with the settings to make it better.

Phil: I did some peripheral research with it, but coming from a console environment, I'm just used to slapping in the game and having it look great.

Phil: There's any settings I need to change, or if I'm basically stuck with what I've got.

Tom: Well, the only thing that I've been able to alter with messing around the settings compared to watching people playing on the max settings is the anti-aliasing.

Tom: Apart from that, if I had to turn that down for an improvement in frame rate, which did affect the visuals, apart from that, I think if you lower not the texture filtering, the general settings, I affected the resolution of the textures, though you would expect the texture filtering to do that.

Tom: Apart from that, even when lowering the settings a bit, it looks pretty similar with what I'm playing as people playing on the max settings with advanced PhysX on, so I think...

Phil: It's jaggy as hell.

Tom: Well, here's the thing, how far did you play?

Phil: Oh, I only played enough to have a take on the graphics.

Tom: Okay, because the opening looks absolutely abysmal.

Tom: About minutes.

Phil: Yeah, probably about minutes.

Phil: I was in the bloody metro station, and I gotta say, the game sucks you in immediately with its atmosphere.

Phil: I was in the metro station, then I went up, then I'm running around the snow killing a bunch of people.

Tom: Well, here's the thing about it.

Tom: The opening looks terrible, because everything is very sort of, not just jaggy, but it looks kind of low res, right?

Tom: You zoom in on a resolution, it looks absolutely awful.

Tom: It's terrible.

Tom: But what you'll notice there, even there, is the richness of the shadows is very high.

Tom: The shadows look better than in many games.

Tom: And once you continue playing, you're gonna very quickly find out why the environments and the people look so awful.

Tom: And the reason for that is the effects are absolutely incredible.

Tom: So when you get further in the game, you can be using a pistol, and you zoom in, or rather you look through the sights of the pistol, you fire a few shots off.

Tom: There's gonna be so much smoke that you cannot see where you're firing.

Tom: You throw a grenade, there is a ridiculous amount of smoke.

Tom: If you end up involved in a large gun battle, you can end up being pretty much blocking out % of a corridor or more with the amount of smoke.

Tom: So the reason the environments look so awful is so that they can run these extremely good effects.

Tom: It's not just that they're extreme in how much smoke there is, the smoke also looks really good.

Tom: So the reason that the environments won't look absolutely awful is so that they can have the effects running to such a high degree, I would say.

Phil: If I get asked, then okay, so people have said to me in the past, we don't need better graphics, how can anything possibly look better than this?

Phil: And I always go to, you know, we need more powerful computing because we have better AI, destructible environments.

Phil: So for example, in Tomb Raider, you know, you have a shotgun that can shoot and destroy some timber, but not all timber, so I was stuck in a shanty and there was a guy on the roof of the shanty, and according to the rules of the game, I should have been able to use my shotgun to shoot through the roof and kill him, right?

Phil: But it wasn't, it was selective.

Phil: Now, what you are perhaps indicating to me is that in this game, you know, the graphics look like garbage because the effects are so great, and obviously if we have better processors and better graphics cards and true next-gen graphics, you won't have any of these compromises.

Tom: Yeah, well, that's the thing.

Tom: This is why is an excellent example because the effects are comparable to the effects in Last Light.

Tom: They do look a lot more primitive and gamey, but the effect they have on the atmosphere is about equal.

Tom: So if you were to take the graphics of the effects of and you put them in Last Light, the atmosphere wouldn't change too significantly.

Tom: But in Last Light, despite having even better effects, though there is generally less smoke going around, but if you do have Advanced PhysX on and DirectX then you do end up with a similar amount of chaos, but I didn't have those on.

Tom: While also having the same level of effects, you also have the environments being of of better than the vast majority of games this generation.

Tom: So you've then got the two, which does make a difference to the atmosphere.

Tom: So it's not going to affect the gameplay, but it does affect your experience of playing the game, because it really does help to further you, immerse you in the world.

Phil: Because it's tricking you, it's doing things that is tricking your mind into accepting this as reality.

Tom: That's right, that's right.

Phil: And you may not pick up on it immediately, but your brain is going...

Phil: Like the shadows is one of the best ways, really, to do this, because it's not like playing a game, looking at your shadow.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: But the shadow is there, and your brain is seeing it on some level, and that's adding to the credibility of the world.

Tom: Yeah, and that's one of the big difference areas between Last Light and is, in fact, the shadows.

Tom: They're not that much more rich in Last Light, but because the environments around them in the light look so much better when you're up close to them, in you only get this great sense of contrast and juxtaposition when you're looking at lights in the distance.

Tom: So you might emerge from a shadow, and you could see down a train tunnel, a lit up area of the train tunnel, and you think, okay, that's an amazing contrast, and it immerses you in the world.

Tom: In Last Light, you get this effect close up as well.

Tom: You might be in a shadow, and right next to you, there's a light on a bench.

Tom: And because that bench doesn't look like a really low res and ugly texture, which it had to, for the processing power and technology of the time to be able to illustrate the excellent lighting and shadows, because now the bench looks just as good as the Long Range we did in you then have no disconnect between what you're saying.

Tom: So there's no point in Last Light, for the vast majority of it, where there's something that stands out to you and you think, okay, I'm playing a game.

Phil: And there are effects, there are visual effects that are subtle that you don't see, that your mind's eye is seeing.

Phil: But then there are other visual effects from this and last gen that baffled me as to why they include them.

Phil: Now, I know why they include them.

Phil: You can think of camera effects, right?

Phil: So like rain, right?

Phil: It's raining in a game and it looks like you're now looking, it's like it's raining on your TV.

Tom: Which by the way is used to excellent effects in Last Sight in thanks to the gas masks.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Tom: So it works there.

Phil: There's an actual usage, right.

Phil: What's the other one?

Phil: The one that you always say that dude uses in, so flares, right?

Phil: Solar flares.

Phil: Solar flares, yeah.

Phil: Light flares, bloom, you know.

Phil: These are all things that tell you, oh yeah, that's right, this is an artificial experience.

Phil: So.

Tom: Well, we won't be seeing them go away.

Tom: And Last Sight does use a lot of bloom lighting, but the difference is.

Phil: You're seeing a lot less bloom these days.

Tom: Yeah, that is true.

Tom: But it's, well, I think you see a lot of bloom still, but it's used to create more realistic effects.

Phil: Used appropriately, as opposed to, this is a part of the Unreal Engine right on.

Tom: So let's just put it on.

Phil: So under Tomb Raider, when I'm playing games on my PC now, particularly games that are released this year, like Tomb Raider, I'm like, okay, well, this, I mean, this is obviously next-gen graphics, right?

Phil: This is what I'm gonna be seeing on the PlayStation or the Xbox One, and I'm like totally satisfied that I have it now on my computer.

Phil: So I mean, I kind of feel like, I think I said at some point, probably insulted a bunch of people, that I'd be an idiot if I bought Bioshock Infinite on any platform other than the PC, which is kind of how I've been for the last year.

Phil: If something's available on the PC, you should really actually get it on the PC if you can.

Phil: I mean, you're gonna be using an Xbox controller.

Phil: It's gonna look great.

Phil: You're not gonna have to worry about load times.

Phil: So, you know, I mean, but in saying that now, and then it is tough.

Phil: I go back and I'll play console games like Sleeping Dogs, which I prior to it looked great.

Phil: And I'm like, eh, this actually doesn't look too good.

Phil: Or even, and that is a great looking game.

Phil: But then you're looking at games like Kingdoms of Amalor, which don't have good graphics.

Phil: I mean, the graphics, I guess, actually are, quote, good, but not great.

Phil: And they look bloody terrible, or Dragon Age.

Phil: And now I'm not like someone who has to have the greatest visual fidelity, because I do play a lot of old games, as we've said before.

Tom: Same here.

Phil: But when it's the current gen, and it's competing with the PC platform...

Tom: It's jarring.

Phil: Yes, it is.

Tom: Because you're already immersed in games that are coming out, or have recently come out, that are of a higher graphical fidelity.

Tom: So you're expecting that, because it's from the same generation, right?

Phil: Right.

Tom: So I mean, when I got back to playing PSgames, the first thing I did was put in Killzone which is one of the best looking PSgames, without doubt.

Tom: And my first reaction to it was quite literally, okay, this looks good for a PSgame.

Tom: Which you would not be, and at the same time, by the way, I'd just been playing a lot of PSand Wii games, which I wasn't immediately able to accept the fidelity, so.

Phil: Well, after playing Cursed Mountain, having your eye poked with a stick looks good.

Tom: Yeah, well, I had actually just recently played Cursed Mountain, so, but I was expecting, because the PSis current gen, and I just played ports of current gen games, that has been Tomb Raider and Last Light, something similar, right?

Tom: So, it's, yeah, it's completely a psychological thing, basically.

Phil: Killzone is a first party game, too, and that's the other thing.

Phil: You have different standards for Naughty Dog and Guerrilla Games and stuff like that.

Phil: Now, just a quick thing.

Phil: I actually think Resistance looks better than Killzone

Phil: I was not impressed with the graphics on Killzone but this, yeah, I wasn't.

Phil: But I'll have to play more, and I'll let you know in a future Killzone Minute.

Tom: In terms of art style or technique?

Phil: No, no, just technique.

Tom: Really?

Phil: Technical, yeah.

Tom: Okay, fair enough.

Phil: Once they got out of the cut scenes, it was like, not a, again, not bad, not even good, I mean, it still looks great, but again, we could just be talking about the same thing again because I just played a really high fidelity PC game in between.

Tom: Possibly.

Tom: I know, because from what I saw of the beginning, and it could be I need to go and look at some of the more environmental areas, but it's all perfectly clean.

Tom: You know, there's no major flaws sticking out in it, from what I remember.

Tom: But yeah, so the other interesting thing about this though is, when you're watching videos of Tomb Raider on PC, or let's say, if you're watching video of the PSversion of Killzone it doesn't look that impressive.

Tom: Now, so a lot of people have been saying, you know, Next Gen is going to be a pretty boring leap, right?

Tom: And I believe I've said this as well.

Phil: Yep, and I've said it as well, because you can only go from SD to HD once.

Tom: Was not a leap whatsoever for me, by the way, which is probably just because I've been playing PC games in HD since time immemorial.

Tom: But anyway, watching most videos of games, Next Gen games, let's just call them Next Gen games, so current gen games on PC, they don't look much better.

Tom: But when you're actually playing them because of the differences in what the visuals achieve, it completely changes the experience.

Tom: So it does then feel like it is a leap from generation to generation, and it is perfectly satisfying.

Tom: So after actually playing Tomb Raider and Last Light and games of that nature, I would have to say I would be perfectly happy with console games if they are no better looking than that.

Tom: Because even though if you're watching them in video and you're thinking, okay, this just looks like a vaguely upscaled PSgame, when you're actually playing them, it changes the experience quite significantly.

Phil: Post-launch, if that middle era of gaming is basically what I was playing Tomb Raider on, which is high-level PC gaming, right?

Phil: If that's what the consoles are able to provide, I'm totally fine with that, you know.

Phil: It matters not that we're already there.

Tom: Well, you expect to be there because the next gen is about to come out.

Tom: So the difference is we both play on PC, which is generally a bit ahead.

Tom: So this would be the case in most generation changes.

Phil: Right, but the difference is, I mean, there was a time when PC games were not ahead of the consoles.

Phil: So, for example, when the Dreamcast came out, it was ahead of the PC, right?

Phil: Yeah, so it's a funny time, and the other thing that I thought was interesting was that basically I don't understand why the Wii U isn't being used right now.

Phil: I guess it all comes down to install base, because it is the most powerful console available right now.

Phil: That's inarguable, right?

Tom: Yep, absolutely.

Phil: So why isn't it getting more of these HD games?

Phil: Why wasn't Tomb Raider brought out for the Wii U?

Tom: Well, this the only...

Tom: It makes no sense, because it's got a video card that is somewhat equivalent to mine.

Tom: I have no problem playing these games in a resolution higher than p.

Tom: Now, you would expect, of course, that equivalent hardware on the console should equal more power to the developers, because they know what they're developing for.

Tom: So they should have no problem achieving more with that hardware than what you would need on PC.

Tom: So the only logical explanation is in store-bases.

Tom: The A games, when they were asked, why isn't Metro Last Light on the Wii U, they said it's very intensive on the CPU.

Tom: And the Wii U possibly, I think, doesn't have a particularly powerful CPU, so maybe that is an issue with some games.

Tom: But then you've got Burnout, which looks quite close to the PC version and significantly better than the console version, so you've got to call bullshit on that.

Tom: And A games have no fucking idea what they're doing when it comes to optimization.

Tom: So...

Phil: Oh, come on.

Tom: They don't.

Phil: They know more than me and you.

Tom: That's, yeah, they know more than me and you, and yet they still have created a game that looks like Metro that is currently the most hardware taxing game available.

Phil: I think probably what the reality is is you don't want to give, you never ever want to give a business reason to the press.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No one's ever going to say, why didn't you bring us over to Wii U?

Phil: Because we'd lose money if we did.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Next question.

Phil: Why would you lose money?

Phil: There aren't enough people who would buy our type of game who own Wii U's.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Who don't already have a PC.

Tom: So the last point of discussion on this would be to go back to your thing about the gameplay in Tomb Raider, where some sorts of wood you can shoot with a shotgun, some you can't.

Tom: Now, a lot of this, I would say, is being held back because of the console versions of the games.

Tom: There's no reason that this would not be technically possible on the PC, but the reason they can't do that on PC is because it's going to affect how they have to design all the levels, because they're then basically going to have to go through and completely redesign the levels, because what they've currently got is, sorry, what they will be doing is, they've got certain things that can be destroyed and things that can't, so that you don't end up, say, shooting a hole in the floor and falling to your death.

Tom: And so they're going to be approaching it from the power of the consoles, knowing what they're able to do with the consoles as far as gameplay is concerned.

Tom: So they're not going to be considering doing a more complex thing, because they know they're not going to be able to do it on where they're going to be expecting the vast majority of the sales.

Tom: So you would expect that sort of thing to be being approached from a more complex perspective come next generation.

Phil: Yeah, I don't want to blame the consoles for that, though.

Phil: I just think that that would actually just make the game design more complex, because now if you have a weapon that can destroy all timber.

Phil: And they did the same thing with the thing, the zipline, right, it can only go into the spongy type rock.

Phil: If you go into all types of rock, then, you know.

Tom: Well, that's probably also an aesthetic choice, so that we don't have her abseiling into a hard rock and dying, and also being killed instantly.

Phil: Well, they have her dying in every other way, so I don't see that as a problem.

Phil: Before we go on to the news, I think we're pretty much done with next-gen graphics, right?

Tom: I believe so.

Tom: Oh, wait, no, one other fascinating thing is the fact that I am able to run these games on my computer.

Tom: This still just boggles my mind that I've got a video card that I bought five years ago that was not top-of-the-range, though is apparently still a fine choice because I was looking on eBay just out of interest, and these are going for like $on eBay, and I paid, I think, $or $for it at the time.

Phil: I think you know what you need to do.

Tom: Yeah, but this is the point.

Phil: You can get a pretty good video card for $

Phil: Just flip that bit.

Tom: Yeah, but no, no.

Tom: But it's not worth it, though.

Tom: It's not worth the effort because here's the thing.

Tom: If I was to go up to playing games at p, yes, I would probably need to do that.

Tom: But at a resolution higher than p, I'm currently able to play next-generation games at equivalent to pretty much what they would be looking like on next-generation consoles.

Tom: That is just completely and utterly mind-blowing to me.

Phil: Okay, well, does News have a song this week?

Tom: Yes, it does.

Phil: It does.

Phil: Then we're gonna play the News song right now and come back with the News.

Tom: It's time for News, so please do listen.

Tom: Allow our enlightenment to freely glisten as we tell you what you should think from the Xbox One to the kitchen sink.

Tom: So says Tom and Phil.

Phil: Okay, that was the News song.

Phil: And I have a story to tell, but let's just talk about the Xbox One.

Phil: It's been a week.

Phil: Has anything changed for you?

Phil: Yep, and my only question is, what if Sony does the same thing in terms of the checking in from periodically?

Phil: And if you don't check in periodically, you won't be able to play your games.

Phil: What if Sony does the same thing?

Phil: I mean, do you sit out the console generation?

Tom: You're forgetting the Wii U.

Phil: Besides the Wii U?

Tom: Well, I would consider it.

Tom: The answer is yes, I would, except for the fact that there's a large chance that if I am going to buy a console, I will eventually be peer pressured by a couple of people into buying a PSfor Killzone, despite these issues.

Phil: And FIFA.

Tom: Yeah, well, no one's peer pressuring me to buy FIFA.

Tom: That's my own obsession.

Phil: Oh, I think our listeners would be peer pressuring you.

Phil: I think they missed the FIFA talk.

Tom: But I can withstand their peer pressure, but I might eventually be talked into it thanks to Killzone, but otherwise my answer is yes, I would also be boycotting the PS

Phil: I was a Wii gamer for a very long time, just going with the Wii and the

Phil: If Sony requires periodic check-in the way Microsoft does, I'm pretty sure I would just go with PC and Wii U.

Phil: So, because my whole thing is I don't want to not be able to play these games in the future, and both companies have demonstrated that a lack of commitment to caring over the games.

Phil: Now, case in point, here's my story.

Phil: Gather around everyone.

Tom: And yet, you cut me off on my hardware thing and just moved straight into the song.

Phil: This story is very important.

Phil: I bought MLB to show.

Phil: It's a baseball game, right?

Phil: Baseball is probably the closest thing I have to a religion.

Phil: And Major League Baseball to show is a PlayStation Vita PSP exclusive.

Phil: I paid full price for it, $$American dollars, imported it, it's right here, it's in my hand right now.

Phil: So last night, I'm like, okay, I want to try and play it online.

Phil: So of course, there's an update.

Phil: So I download a megabyte update.

Phil: That's entirely acceptable.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: It takes over an hour.

Phil: But that's that's Sony stupid network.

Tom: Yeah, right.

Phil: It's probably directly connected to a somewhere in Tokyo.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, they don't like upgrading their office equipment in Tokyo.

Phil: Why?

Tom: Have you not seen they still use faxes?

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Faxes are an integral part.

Tom: And old heaters and old air conditions, air conditions and all that sort of thing.

Phil: So I download the megabyte update.

Phil: That's fine.

Phil: Takes a long time.

Phil: In fact, it takes more time than it would have just to play a game or two.

Phil: And then I connect to the...

Phil: I go multiplayer, connect to the PSN, and it's all, okay, go ahead and activate your online pass.

Phil: I'm like, that's weird.

Phil: I didn't know Sony was doing online passes.

Phil: But doesn't matter me because I've paid full retail for a brand new game.

Phil: Right?

Tom: I can see where this is going.

Phil: I don't think you can.

Phil: I put in the code.

Phil: And it says, oh, thank you for your code.

Phil: We now need to activate your code and you need to download this file to activate your code.

Phil: Do you wish to guess how large the file they wish for me to download to activate my online code?

Tom: gigabytes.

Phil: gigabytes.

Tom: So I was actually close then.

Tom: I have a ridiculously over-the-top joke answer was actually megabytes less.

Phil: So I pay $a month for gigabytes, and they want me to spend a third of it on activating this online code.

Tom: How is this even possible?

Phil: Because what they're really doing is the update wasn't really an update.

Phil: The update is like something to fix something, and that's fine, right?

Phil: And then the gig is going to be all of the bugs that they're fixing with the online multiplayer, getting around cheats and everything else.

Tom: That actually sounds like you're downloading the entire online multiplayer.

Phil: Yes, exactly.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: They may not have put it on the disk because they were afraid of people hacking around it, so you actually have to download the online multiplayer, gig.

Phil: So I'm screwed.

Phil: I will never be able to play this online.

Phil: And there's a couple of guys I know who live in the US that would want to play this game with me.

Phil: I'm not going to be spending a third of my internet allocation on a video game.

Tom: And because it's Sony's terrible system and it's an update, you wouldn't even be able to download it like one gigabyte at a month.

Phil: No, because by that time, they'll turn off the servers for multiplayer, which they do.

Phil: After months, they turn off the...

Tom: With most updates, you can't do anything at the same time.

Tom: You're locked in there.

Phil: It's not like Unvalve.

Phil: So that's my story.

Tom: That is absolutely atrocious.

Phil: Yeah, I was outraged.

Phil: I am outraged.

Phil: And you know what else?

Phil: It used to look good, but now it doesn't look good anymore.

Tom: So it's just completely useless.

Phil: And there's no good baseball games on the PC, so I'm screwed.

Tom: You'll have to get an old one.

Phil: I'm going to go with this next story first, even though it's your turn, because this is a story that I'm probably more interested in.

Phil: We are, after all, in the news section.

Phil: Activision has rebooted development of its next MMO.

Phil: So you may know that they've been working on this MMO to replace or augment WoW for about six years.

Phil: And it's called Titan.

Phil: So they basically laid off all of the staff, except for the key design staff, or reassigned them elsewhere.

Phil: This is a game that was playable in

Phil: They've been making it since...

Phil: Well, they've been making it for six years.

Phil: What the hell?

Phil: It was playable in and now they're starting from scratch.

Tom: Are the services up or have they pulled them down?

Phil: Well, it's never been accessible to the public.

Tom: So, in a closed beta?

Phil: No, not even that.

Phil: When I say playable, I mean behind closed doors.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: Reporters have played it, and they're never going to get rid of WoW.

Phil: They'll always have it in the background, kind of like EverQuest sort of thing.

Phil: But this was supposed to be the replacement for WoW, to generate new business, but WoW has been first plateauing and now dropping.

Phil: And I just...

Phil: What's going on?

Tom: Obviously, they've made something shit, and they continue to playability for whatever reason, but they've now realized it's shit and have, instead of scrapping the idea, have decided to start from scratch.

Tom: How long was it in development before it was playable, by the way?

Phil: Do you know?

Phil: Oh, well, let's see.

Phil: Two years ago, it was playable, so four years.

Tom: Okay, because the other thing to consider is that the MMO landscape is changing.

Tom: Surely, Western developers are now taking notice that you can't just make an MMO, and it's going to be an instant World of Warcraft.

Tom: And while this is Blizzard, this was probably started off as a project in the same sense, not necessarily to complement World of Warcraft, but to attempt to get some similar ridiculous, completely unlikely amount of success.

Tom: And maybe after the Star Wars MMO has failed, and a long list of other ones have failed, they've realized, well, we're not actually going to achieve this, so we need to approach it from a different angle.

Phil: There was ever only one successful MMO, and that was WoW, right?

Tom: Only one successful Western MMO.

Phil: Western MMO that people pay monthly subscriptions to, and that was WoW.

Phil: And basically, what I think they were expecting is that, okay, well, there's going to be like % to % of people who are going to stick with WoW for the rest of their lives, and that's fine.

Phil: We'll keep providing services for them.

Phil: But we have this -member customer service staff.

Phil: We have all these servers.

Phil: And then the new game that most people will move over to is going to be Titan.

Phil: And I think they now know that people are not going to pay a monthly subscription for an MMO anymore if it's not WoW.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, yeah, I guess...

Phil: I mean, I guess a complete reboot is better than launching a failure.

Tom: Why even bother?

Tom: Is the real question here.

Tom: WoW might have gone down over the years, but it is still hugely successful.

Tom: This just seems like a waste of money and effort.

Phil: Well, for these publicly traded companies, growth is key, right?

Phil: They have to show increases in growth and new things, and that's why they signed up Bungie for their new game and everything else.

Phil: But...

Tom: And that could be it, because each expansion to World of Warcraft has been consecutively less successful.

Tom: So, they've probably given up on that.

Tom: They've finally realized they can't really add much more to it, that people are going to be interested in paying for.

Tom: Because the thing is, if you've been playing it for like years, or however long, if you've been there since the beginning, you're not necessarily going to be that interested in new content.

Tom: You're going to be interested in just becoming more and more of a badass in the world and getting involved in the community.

Tom: And if you're a new user and there's already hours worth of content, what's the point of releasing more?

Tom: There's not going to be appeal to the current users or to new users because they've already got so many expansions that they can already be buying.

Phil: Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.

Phil: I think basically what they're doing...

Phil: This game will never come out at this point.

Phil: This is them killing it.

Phil: Because they're admitting that we're not going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on this and have the game fail.

Phil: So we're basically ending development of this game.

Phil: Wow, you know what?

Phil: I bet it comes out as a free to play and they'll do the microtransaction thing.

Tom: Yeah, and then it'll be gone soon after.

Phil: Yeah, that's working for Dota but you really got to wonder if the sheen is coming off of Blizzard.

Phil: I mean, Dota is eating their lunch, taking away people from StarCraft

Phil: Diablo was a fiasco.

Tom: Can you underestimate how successful Dota is though?

Tom: It might be taking people away from StarCraft, but it's also getting a huge amount of people, especially in Asia.

Phil: Dota is great, but Dota is vile, and that's what I'm saying.

Phil: Dota is eating everyone's lunch right now.

Phil: It's the most played game.

Phil: Anyway, enough about that.

Phil: What else have you got?

Tom: There's really only two things, and we'll go with the short and quick one.

Tom: That is the Sonic Mario Galaxy.

Tom: Now, there's really nothing much to say about this.

Tom: I just wanted to say one quick thing on the launch trailer, and you can add to this afterwards if you have anything else to say, and that is, have you seen the grass in this?

Phil: No, but I've seen the trees.

Tom: Okay, well, the grass, it looks extremely good, except for the fact this is % fake turf.

Tom: It's not even good fake turf.

Tom: It is the most plastic-looking, crappiest fake turf you could possibly come across.

Tom: That's what it looks like.

Tom: And I assume it's meant to look like actual grass, but it doesn't whatsoever.

Phil: Well, fake grass, some of that fake grass doesn't look pretty good these days.

Tom: Yeah, but this is the worst-looking fake turf.

Phil: So it looks like astroturf?

Tom: Yeah, it's just awful.

Tom: It looks just terrible.

Phil: Well, I know the trees look like they're ripped out directly from Mario

Phil: They've got those spheres that are bundled up on each other.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So I think we've hit all the high points there.

Tom: Yeah, I believe so.

Phil: So there's a new Sonic game.

Phil: It's called Lost World.

Phil: This is the Lost World game, right?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Yeah, and looks a lot like Super Mario Galaxy.

Tom: Looks exactly like Super Mario Galaxy, except at a fast pace.

Tom: And more linear, of course.

Phil: I'm already too good Sonic games in the whole.

Phil: I still haven't played Generations or Colors, both of which are supposed to be good.

Tom: Well, I tell you what else is supposed to be good, and that is Sonic and that is awful.

Phil: Yeah, I don't know.

Phil: I don't want to really get into the whole Sonic thing.

Tom: We don't need to.

Tom: I just wanted to say that.

Phil: Alright, what else have you got?

Tom: Speaking about other terrible things, Warren Specter, who has become something of the moral conscience of the industry recently, decided to also comment on the new Wolfenstein game.

Tom: And I'll just read his quote here.

Tom: It's all terrible, so it really doesn't matter which part I read aloud, but we'll just go with the most concise part.

Tom: Did the world really need another Wolfenstein game?

Tom: Do we need generically dark monochromatic FPS?

Tom: Kill the Nazi giant robot game?

Tom: Ah, no, the world did not.

Tom: I'm so tired of stuff like this.

Phil: I mean, did the world really need another Epic Mickey game?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: With bad camera?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, this guy is such a fraud.

Phil: I mean, basically, he's done Wing Commander, Ultima, System Shock, Deus Ex, Thief, and Epic Mickey.

Phil: Now, sure, there are some gems in there, right?

Phil: But this is since

Phil: I mean, this is a long period, and who knows how much he had to play with this, but his recent output hasn't been great.

Phil: And, I mean, I'm sorry, I didn't also know that he has to...

Phil: He's apparently contractually obligated to play every video game that comes out to completion.

Tom: I think that's probably the issue.

Tom: This is why he's so bitter, is that he's forced to play every single game released, and the worst part is he was probably forced to play Epic Mickey.

Tom: But...

Phil: Yeah, after it had been made for him, right?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: But the most ridiculous thing about the comments he's making and has made is they're all so ridiculously hypocritical.

Tom: So, in this same rant, he goes in to say, and given the Venomaine Disney epic, Mickey Bappy, with no concern...

Phil: Oh, Jesus, let it go.

Tom: With no concern for how hard the team worked.

Tom: I don't think I need any lectures about that, and that is about the lack of new IPs and whatnot.

Tom: Now, wasn't one of the criticisms aimed at epic Mickey was that it was generic and dark.

Phil: And had a bad camera.

Tom: Yeah, but forget the bad camera, because I don't think he's complaining about the bad camera, or rather the camera of Wolfenstein, but those were two criticisms that were regularly aimed at epic Mickey, which are two criticisms he is aiming at Wolfenstein.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: He's saying, given the Venom aimed at Disney epic Mickey by people with no concern to how hard the team worked, I don't need any lectures about it.

Phil: So he's saying that developers work hard so we shouldn't criticize them.

Phil: Oh, do we really need another Wolfenstein game?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, idiot.

Phil: Speaking of Castle Wolfenstein, I was reminded this week Castle Wolfenstein was the first game released on the Apple.

Phil: The first Castle Wolfenstein game was released on Apple II by Silas Warner.

Phil: The id guys loved that game because they all came up with the Apple II.

Phil: So when they decided to make...

Phil: Carmack came up with the engine for Castle Wolfenstein, and they were like, oh, it would be great if we could set it in the Wolfenstein world.

Phil: And then they found out that Silas Warner had gone bankrupt and had relinquished the rights to Wolfenstein.

Phil: So they were able to just pick it up off the ground, not pay the guy a penny, and that's where you got Wolfenstein D.

Phil: Is that incredible or what?

Tom: Indeed.

Tom: I think someone's been reading Masters of Doom recently.

Phil: Yes, I have been reading Masters of Doom.

Phil: I can't put it down.

Phil: Well, that's all for news.

Phil: It's been a light week for news, and this is pretty clear.

Phil: I mean, we're coming up on Eso everyone's kind of keeping their cards close to their chest.

Phil: So at this point, we'll exit news, and I'm going to give first impressions of a game I started this week called Costume Quest, the game from Double Fine.

Phil: This is a JRPG, and this is a part of their initial, you know, basically foray into the digital distribution world.

Phil: They did stacking, and so Costume Quest is nothing at all what I was expecting.

Tom: What were you expecting?

Phil: I was expecting a cute JRPG, and basically what I'm looking at here looks like something you could play through a browser.

Phil: It looks like a Flash game.

Phil: This is the thing with some of these arty games, right?

Phil: It's just that, like, with some of these small arty games that have a single concept behind them, which is the concept behind Costume Quest, is that it's a Halloween JRPG, which makes perfect sense, right?

Tom: Yep, that's a cool idea.

Phil: Going from door to door, you trick or you treat, you get in a battle, you get rewards, you move under the next door.

Phil: You know, I mean, you've got the grinding built in right there, you've got the turn-based battles.

Tom: And a variety of monsters.

Phil: A variety of monsters, and cute kids.

Tom: And loot.

Phil: Yeah, and cute kids stepping out into the world and finding out that there's dangers out there, and leaving home, and the parents aren't around, and all the rest of it.

Phil: It's terrible.

Phil: I mean, it's not terrible, but it's just so...

Phil: It's such a letdown, because it could have been a really great JRPG.

Phil: And instead, what I'm finding with a lot of these art games is, you know, I don't have kids, you don't have kids, but we've seen sitcoms with kids in them.

Phil: And basically...

Tom: So we're basically experts.

Phil: Experts, I think we're fair to say.

Phil: Essentially parents.

Phil: As it were.

Phil: And you know, when...

Phil: You know how you see some people's fridges and they're covered with their kid's art?

Phil: You know?

Phil: That's when I'm starting to think about these artsy games, because you're like, oh, look at what you've done.

Phil: It's so different and good.

Phil: But they don't stand up past minutes of gameplay.

Phil: Like, once you've seen the initial concept and the execution of the concept, it really doesn't hold up to be something that you want to continue engaging in.

Phil: And I think a lot of the pocket reviews that you read for these is like, oh, it's so innovative, it's so creative.

Phil: Okay, but is it any friggin good?

Phil: And this game is not good.

Phil: From a gameplay perspective, this is not a good game.

Phil: This is like an iPhone game.

Phil: This is something that would have been great on a smartphone, where you can play it for a few minutes, and it's just a disposable, meaningless game.

Phil: But I was caught up in it for the first few minutes.

Phil: I was like, oh, this is kind of cute.

Phil: This is kind of cool.

Phil: And then it just doesn't last.

Tom: I must say, though, that, and I haven't played this, I'm still interested in playing.

Tom: I must say, though, that is probably my reaction to a great deal of AAA titles.

Tom: The first well, actually, that's not true, because generally a lot of AAA titles have an absolutely abysmal first hour.

Tom: But past that first hour, quite often I'm interested for about minutes, then get rather bored.

Phil: That was my experience with Darkstalkers.

Phil: I went into that game not expecting anything at all, and it has the best intro, right?

Phil: It just has this amazing, mind-blowing intro, which I'm not going to spoil, even though it's the first minutes of the game, because it has such an impact.

Phil: Because it is something that you are not expecting at all.

Phil: Based on the cover art of the game or any screenshots you've seen.

Phil: Same with Homefront, the game from THQ about the North Koreans invading the United States.

Phil: It has one of the best intros ever.

Phil: And then it just, you know, from there, it's not a bad game.

Phil: It was just like a half-life ripoff.

Phil: So it did prompt me to wonder if a Westerner or a Western company had ever made a good JRPG.

Tom: Well, we're about to talk about one that might fit that description aesthetically, but on a deeper level, I would like to take a moment to mention one of my favorite games, which is the cult classic Scepterra Kor.

Phil: I think you mean Scepterra Kor, Legacy of the Creator.

Tom: That is correct.

Tom: That is correct.

Tom: And I won't actually go into any detail about it.

Tom: I'll just say it was so good that it made me make a GeoCities fansite for it back in the day.

Tom: That's how awesome it was.

Phil: This was published by Monolith.

Phil: And developed by Valkyrie Studios.

Tom: But it's not the Monolith.

Tom: There were two Monoliths at the time, I believe.

Phil: Yeah, there are two Monoliths.

Phil: And there still are, I think.

Phil: Just like these two avalanches.

Phil: But this was developed by Valkyrie Studios.

Phil: Are those guys got anything at all to do with Valkyrie Chronicles?

Tom: I do not think so.

Phil: Yeah, you're quite right.

Phil: I just checked on that.

Phil: No, yeah, you're right.

Phil: Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Phil: So, what was so special about September Core?

Tom: Well, it played quite differently to many Western RPGs.

Tom: And it was basically a turn-based battle system.

Tom: But one of the major differences was a card-based summoning system.

Tom: So you would go around collecting these cards, and depending on the cards you combine, you could summon different spells and different creatures.

Tom: I can't remember if you could summon creatures or not, actually, but you could summon different spells and different buffs and things like that in the battle.

Tom: So it was quite an interesting battle system.

Tom: The story was quite excellent, and it was a very interesting concept.

Tom: Basically, there are these several different plates of the world above one another, and they're all based on class.

Tom: So you start off at the bottom, which is the rubbish dump for the upper classes and middle classes, and all the rubbish gets dumped down there.

Tom: And in quite like a JRPG style story, it starts out with, and once again, I can't remember the details, but it starts out with a pretty simple premise that then becomes about saving the world and whatnot.

Tom: So it actually is quite JRPG-like, which made it very unique for a Western RPG.

Phil: Have you played many of these card-type games before?

Phil: I mean, I can think of a couple of them, but obviously the most obvious one that comes to mind is Baton Ketos.

Tom: No, I haven't played that many.

Phil: Or Baton Ketos.

Tom: That's Japanese too, right?

Phil: Yeah, but it was developed by Monolith also.

Tom: That's an interesting coincidence.

Phil: And Tri-Crescendo.

Phil: Yeah, so, I mean, a spectral...

Phil: God, I'm thinking about two different games right now.

Phil: I can't even think of their names, but the card-based thing has always had tremendous appeal to me.

Phil: In terms of battle and whatnot, so...

Phil: So, your fan site, is it still up?

Tom: No, I'm not sure if it was ever posted live.

Tom: I may have just made it and never posted it live.

Phil: That's really sad.

Tom: It was an awesome site though.

Phil: I bet it was.

Phil: Did it have a podcast?

Tom: No, sadly.

Tom: That's why I didn't make it live, obviously.

Tom: That's what it was missing.

Phil: That's what it was missing.

Phil: And years later, you've come to remedy that.

Tom: That's right, exactly.

Phil: Scepteracore lives through this podcast.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: We're now renaming the site scepteracorelegacyofthecreator.net.

Phil: Scepteracast.

Phil: I think we could probably do a side podcast about this game once I've played it.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: I mean, we've obviously proven to everyone that as long as we both played a game, we can talk for it about, you know, two hours a week.

Tom: Easily, easily.

Tom: And that's when we're cutting out most of what we're saying.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So is that it about Scepteracast?

Tom: Yep, that's it.

Phil: All right.

Phil: So the other JRPG that has a Western heritage, albeit Canadian...

Tom: If you could even call them Western...

Phil: .

Phil: would be To the Moon.

Tom: Yes, indeed.

Tom: And this is, of course, not actually a JRPG, but it looks like a JRPG as it was made in RPG Maker.

Tom: And early on, there is a scene in which you're going around with a couple of children, and they come across a squirrel, and it goes into a turn-based battle, basically pointing out, making fun of the whole aesthetic of the game.

Tom: And this is one of the major problems I had with the game, was this sort of humor in it.

Tom: It was basically non-stop nerd-style jokes, and the two main characters were constantly making meme-related and whatnot wisecracks, which generally fell rather flat to me because the writing is really awful.

Tom: It's the sort of writing you would expect to find someone posting in a forum where they're writing a short story about the people on the forum, and they're just basically referencing random jokes, and it's awful.

Phil: Yeah, so it's kind of like insider fanfic, but there's no fans yet.

Phil: Well, I've actually outdone that.

Phil: I think on YouTube somewhere, I did a parody of the VG Press podcast, which would have to be the most insider thing ever.

Phil: So I am guilty of having done something like this.

Tom: That was awesome, though.

Tom: That was quite accurate.

Phil: Because you were in it.

Phil: Okay, so To the Moon, it was made with RPG Maker, but it's not a JRPG.

Tom: No, I'm not sure how you would describe it exactly.

Tom: I think the closest genre it would probably fit to is point-and-click adventure game, but it's not really point-and-click adventure game.

Tom: The gameplay basically consists of you pixel-hunting these mementos.

Tom: So there's things scattered around the environment that are relevant to the person in question's menus, which we'll get to in a minute.

Tom: Person in question's memories.

Tom: So you find, say, five of these, which is then enough for you to break a force field around a memory link, which lets you jump onto the next memory.

Tom: So that's the majority of the gameplay, is literally you just pixel hunting.

Tom: Now, the rest of the gameplay, however, is sliding puzzles.

Tom: Yes, you heard that correctly, sliding puzzles, in the most banal sense of what this could possibly be.

Tom: This is not like A Virus Named Tom, which takes tile flipping and makes it into something incredibly awesome.

Tom: This is incredibly boring, simple tile sliding, tile flipping, sorry, puzzles.

Tom: And every single puzzle can be solved incredibly easily.

Tom: There's actually a formula to solving the puzzles.

Tom: On the bottom left-hand corner of the board, you can flip several of the tiles at once, not just along their own pane of tiles.

Tom: Now, each puzzle you can instantly work out how it's going to be solved by simply working out if you're going to have to flip them diagonally.

Tom: And once you figure that out, then the rest of the puzzle becomes blatantly obvious.

Tom: So it's basically no more challenge than the pixel hunting whatsoever, and it's just as boring.

Tom: So there's really nothing positive to say about it puzzle-wise, sorry, gameplay-wise.

Tom: And in fact, the worst thing about it is you move around by clicking where you have to go.

Phil: Ooh, I hate that.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And this is a way to make this not so bad that most games that are reasonable do.

Tom: The best thing, of course, is you can toggle movement on.

Tom: So you press the button once, and you're constantly moving in the direction you're pointing.

Tom: The second way to alleviate this being an incredible pain in the arse is you can hold down the left mouse button, and they move until you stop holding it down.

Tom: Or if you're just going to be a major annoying dickhead, what you do is you can click a long way off the screen, like around a corner, and they navigate around that corner, right?

Tom: Often if you click around the corner, they won't move there, so you've got to move to where the corner is, then click to where you would have clicked originally.

Tom: And you can't hold it down or anything like that, so it's basically the worst way you could possibly do this sort of navigation system.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So you finished this game, or is this the first impression of this game?

Tom: No, I finished this.

Tom: It's only about, I think I finished it about three and a half hours.

Tom: So it's a short game.

Tom: Now, despite all that, I immensely enjoyed it after a certain point.

Tom: After I got past the fact that, okay, the writing is going to be awful.

Tom: The gameplay is awful.

Tom: I was enjoying it once I could get past those two rather important facts, given that it is a story-based game.

Tom: And the reason for this is, despite the writing, as far as the dialogue being concerned, being horrible, the composition of the story is actually excellent.

Tom: It is extremely well done.

Tom: The story is you're playing as one of two, I think you could probably call them technicians, perhaps, but they're also involved in medicine.

Tom: So let's call them doctor technicians.

Tom: That's a new term I just coined right then and there.

Tom: So...

Phil: Doctortion.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: So these doctortions go to people who have hired their company to basically, when they're dying, go to their deathbed and program in their final wish.

Tom: So, for example, this guy that they're going to now...

Phil: Is this a major spoiler?

Tom: No, it's not.

Phil: OK, because I have had this game spoiled for me already.

Tom: OK, this isn't a major spoiler.

Tom: You find out this from the very beginning.

Tom: Maybe you find out after you've walked into the house.

Tom: It's right at the beginning.

Phil: OK, so you program into the thing what your last wish is.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: And then...

Tom: And then they live it out, presumably, which I won't say whether this happens or not.

Tom: So that's the basic concept of the story.

Tom: How this is illustrated as far as the composition of the story is to create this new memory in this dying person.

Tom: You've got to go through the person in question's memories from childhood to adult, except they don't do it in chronological order.

Tom: So you're basically exploring this person's memories, and this is how the story is told, and it is done.

Phil: That sounds painful.

Tom: It's done very well, though.

Tom: I was expecting it to be awful and done very poorly, but it's done very well.

Tom: The issues mainly are to do with the gameplay and the writing, but the actual story is illustrated excellently.

Tom: And the other thing is the music is very good as well.

Tom: The worst thing about the music, though, is it's very poor quality MIDI sounds.

Phil: That's fine.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That apparently bothers Zelda fans a great deal, but I've got no problem with that.

Tom: In case you were thinking this would be some amazing orchestral score, it's not.

Tom: But the music itself follows the story very well and sets the scene nicely.

Tom: Except, and this is the thing I found in The Walking Dead as well at the end, don't stick in vocal tracks into your game when the rest of your entire soundtrack has been vocalist music.

Tom: It is jarring and it is stupid and it is just incredibly retarded.

Phil: There's great presence for that in Yakuza, for example, since we haven't mentioned that yet this year.

Tom: Yakuza doesn't have just one vocal track.

Tom: They generally work it in there a little more cleverly.

Phil: In JRPGs though, like in Final Fantasy VIII or whatever, you have these great songs and then you have these credit songs.

Tom: But this wasn't a credit song.

Tom: This was before the ending to illustrate a point in the story.

Tom: And if you're doing it in that way, it becomes just incredibly over the top.

Tom: And to me, it wasn't effective at all.

Tom: Just to get back to something not quite so specific, as I was saying, the story is excellent.

Tom: So this raises an interesting question to me because it's hard to talk about a game like this because all you can really basically say without spoiling something, unless we were going to do a spoiler cast as we did with Spec Ops The Line, is that the story is excellent.

Tom: If you actually go into too much detail, then it is going to spoil the story because of the way it is told.

Tom: So you can't really say more about it apart from the basic plot line, which is, have you heard any reviews about it?

Phil: Yes, I have.

Phil: I'm pretty familiar with it.

Phil: I think that most people came away from it with effusive praise for it, but saying, well, it's not really a game, but the story is so touching and moving, and I kind of know what the story is.

Tom: Yeah, and that's the thing that annoyed me about these reviews though, is because they didn't want to spoil the story, and you can't go into the details about the story too much without spoiling it, or without making it sound like it's utter crap.

Phil: Let me say that I have a pretty good idea of what the story is, and this is all in the context of listening to non-spoiler content about this game.

Phil: So this is just people making sounds about the game, and I've pretty much impugned exactly what it is this game is about.

Phil: So, you know.

Phil: But I mean, it must be pretty good.

Phil: I mean, it was made with RPG Maker, which is like, you and I, I actually have downloaded it and tried to make a game, because I have an idea for my own game.

Phil: But it, I mean, that must be the greatest part of it, is that someone who doesn't have any technical skills whatsoever, but just had a good story to tell, was able to make a commercial release and get that story out to people.

Tom: Yeah, absolutely.

Phil: I mean, I think that's the most remarkable thing about this.

Phil: Like, you don't even have to have the skills to make a Minecraft or, you know, any other kind of technically simple game.

Phil: This is just basically, you buy something off the internet for $and go to town with it.

Tom: Yeah, but here's the thing, just on that point that I was wondering about, is about these reviews that say, well, it's basically not a game.

Tom: If this was not a game, I would have absolutely despised it.

Tom: If this was a short film, it would have been okay, but it would have been, I mean, I wouldn't have cared about it because of the way it would have been told.

Tom: If this was a short story with this level of writing, even if the story composition was the same, I would have absolutely detested it.

Tom: I would have felt that this has been a complete and utter waste of my time.

Phil: Right, right.

Phil: Well, that's the hierarchy of storytelling, right?

Phil: I mean, if you're going to read it, it has to be of the highest level.

Phil: If you're going to watch it, it's going to have to be of a pretty good level.

Phil: If you're going to play it, well, you've got that interactivity that's offsetting everything else.

Phil: So in terms of the tiers of writing, I mean, you've got written word, screen performance, and then video game.

Phil: And then slot machine, below that.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: And that's the thing.

Tom: I mean, even a simple thing as the moving from point to point completely alters the pacing of the story.

Tom: So, for example, let's say they're moving around collecting memories.

Tom: Now, in the vast majority of short stories, they're not going to depict this passage of time because the vast majority of writers are incredibly lazy and shit, so they're not going to attempt to do this.

Tom: And also because they're told you can't actually do this, you need to just focus on what is important to the story.

Tom: So what is important to the story is the things they're finding, right?

Tom: So they're going to just show the things that the characters involved are finding.

Tom: But if you do actually add the movement between the things that they're finding, it gives it much more emotional impact if you are not an exceptionally good writer.

Tom: So even just simple functional things like that can make what would be absolutely horrible in another medium actually very effective.

Phil: Right, yeah, that's a good point.

Tom: But that's probably pretty much it, except for one rather bizarre thing.

Tom: One of the characters in the game has autism.

Tom: Now, throughout the game, maybe this is something to do with the...

Phil: Wait, wait, it's a pixelated character.

Phil: How can it have autism?

Tom: Well, the character can, because it's the character.

Tom: I don't think characters are actually pixels, although they are, you know what I mean.

Phil: No, I don't.

Phil: I mean characters are...

Tom: So wait a minute, wait a minute.

Tom: So is Tomb Raider a woman?

Phil: No, she's a pixel.

Tom: So...

Phil: They're very attractive.

Tom: Let me start this again.

Phil: Almost distractingly so.

Phil: I've got to say in the first few...

Phil: Like in the first hour of Tomb Raider, I was like transfixed with the stunningness of Lara Croft.

Phil: And this has never happened to me before.

Tom: I was laughing at the camera angles the whole time.

Phil: Yeah, well, like especially when she has to like sidle up against a narrow cavern.

Phil: It's like, Jesus, come on.

Tom: That was hilarious.

Tom: That was hilarious.

Phil: Just turn this back a little bit.

Phil: So I don't know.

Phil: Go ahead.

Phil: Talk to me about pixels.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So let's say they've got pixel autism.

Tom: You're happy with that?

Phil: Well, pixels can't have autism.

Phil: Digital characters can't have autism.

Tom: No, no, no, no.

Tom: What I'm saying, this is not...

Tom: This is digital autism.

Phil: Like with fingers?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Then that's understandable.

Tom: Let's put it this way.

Tom: The characters are finger puppets and they've got digital autism.

Phil: I buy that.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So one of the characters has that.

Tom: And this...

Tom: I imagine many reviews would have avoided this as a spoiler, but it's basically once again visible from the very beginning of the game.

Tom: So one of the characters has autism.

Tom: Now, throughout the entire game, it's a running joke that no one knows what this is.

Tom: So that's fine.

Tom: That works fine.

Tom: But at the same time, there's this very overt and possibly not deliberate avoidance of calling it autism.

Tom: So I'm wondering if there's some sort of stigma attached to, well, of course, there is in most places, but even worse in Canada, some sort of stigma attached to Asperger's syndrome and autism, where using those terms is not politically correct in Canada.

Phil: No, I don't think so at all.

Phil: I think it's probably just saying this is a loose metaphor, like in Papo and Yo, that this is just a loose metaphor for what is going on, and this could be something, it could be anything.

Phil: It could be AIDS, it could be autism, it could be bipolar.

Tom: It's definitely autism.

Phil: Well, I don't think it's going to be...

Tom: No, what I'm saying is they literally say it is autism in the game, except they avoid using the term autism.

Tom: They use other medical terms to describe it.

Phil: Then you may well be correct.

Phil: I happen to think that autism in Asperger's is completely overused.

Phil: It's kind of like the ADD of the new millennium.

Phil: I mean, there are people that have autism that are off the hook.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Tom: Well, there's a very easy way to find out if someone actually does have autism, by the way, and that is observe how they move.

Phil: I thought you were going to say lock them in a room.

Tom: No, that might work too, though.

Tom: That might work too.

Phil: And then observe how they move.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, that is actually true, because the best way to do it is lock them in a room with a motion capture device, then observe how they move.

Phil: Yeah, I wasn't joking.

Phil: I mean, I've got this all planned out.

Phil: So, I mean, if I suspect someone has autism, I, you know...

Tom: Or immediately kidnap them.

Phil: Yeah, and I have a safe room, and we observe them, and then I help them out.

Phil: And I say, yeah, you got autism.

Phil: Or after a few weeks, I go, you know what?

Phil: You don't have autism.

Tom: And then you finally let them go.

Phil: On your way.

Phil: I think you're onto something there.

Phil: It's probably something politically correct in Canada.

Phil: So, is that all you have to say about The Moon?

Tom: Yes, it is, indeed.

Phil: Because it's interesting that the games here that you've chosen to talk about...

Phil: I have show notes.

Phil: The listeners don't have show notes.

Phil: The listeners don't have access to the show notes until after we publish the show.

Tom: It's probably mind-boggling for many people that are listening that could not imagine that we could possibly be using show notes.

Phil: But the thing is this, right?

Phil: We do publish the show notes after the show, and they are listening to the show now, so they do have access to the show notes at the same time as we do.

Tom: I didn't know we published the show notes.

Phil: Well, we put out the timeline.

Phil: You could skip ahead and see what we're about to talk to.

Phil: But I think this is...

Phil: We don't talk about segways in this show.

Phil: That's one of the preconditions, if you go back to episode one.

Phil: But we're going from To the Moon to a game called Proteus, and I don't know if you know, but Proteus is the name of the second largest moon of Neptune.

Tom: Amazing.

Tom: I was about to say, wouldn't it be awesome if we were going to a game set on the moon?

Phil: And we are.

Phil: The second largest moon of Neptune.

Phil: Proteus.

Tom: See now, I was constantly thinking of Proteus as in the South African Proteus.

Phil: Oh, the little flower?

Tom: Yep, and the rugby team.

Phil: That's Proteus.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I know it's a different thing, but you hear it, I heard it, and that's what I immediately thought of.

Tom: I'm not saying there's any logic to it.

Tom: But, yeah.

Tom: So here's another game that many would describe as not being a game.

Tom: And basically in Proteus, the gameplay consists of you exploring a very Minecraft-like environment.

Tom: And all you can do in it is basically explore and you can find these, and I won't say that actually because that basically is a spoiler, but you can explore the environment and watch how it changes with different seasons and with night and day.

Tom: And that's basically the entire game.

Phil: Well, the guy that made it actually said that he didn't consider it to be a game, right?

Phil: And then everyone latched on to that and was like, oh, see, the guy said it's not a game, it's not a game.

Phil: But what he was saying is the same thing that Will Wright said years ago about SimCity.

Phil: And that SimCity is not a game, it's a toy.

Phil: It's something you play with, it's not something that you beat or you win, there's not a score at the end.

Tom: Yeah, except this does actually have an ending.

Phil: And is the ending any good?

Tom: He just destroyed his own argument there.

Phil: Well, I was talking about Will Wright.

Phil: But there's no winning, right?

Tom: No, no.

Tom: You can just get to the end of the game and then you can start it again in a different environment.

Phil: Is it any good?

Tom: Yes, it is.

Tom: Very good.

Tom: And once again, the interactivity is why it is good.

Tom: So first of all, it is visually very well done.

Tom: It's, despite the fact that it looks like Minecraft very much, it's actually a very vibrant and believable environment, more so than in most games, in inverted commas.

Tom: It's a very believable environment.

Tom: You could imagine that this was a real random island that you stumbled across, with random wildlife going about their business and all that sort of thing.

Tom: This music is excellent.

Tom: It fits the mood perfectly and is very enjoyable and relaxing.

Tom: It lasts about minutes, which is a perfect length for it.

Tom: What?

Tom: Yeah, it's short.

Phil: minutes?

Tom: Yeah, but let me finish.

Tom: It lasts about minutes, which is the perfect amount of time for it.

Tom: As you say, it is very much like a toy.

Tom: It's a thing you interact with, not so much a game.

Tom: It's the sort of thing, because the island is randomly generated, I believe, or procedures generated.

Tom: You play it for about minutes or an hour, then you finish with that island.

Tom: You basically explored everything on that island, so that island is done with.

Tom: You finish that island, then you can come back to it a few days later when you're feeling like playing it, and you go and explore another island for about the same length of time.

Tom: So that amount of time fits it perfectly.

Tom: If it was longer, and it is the sort of game you would play in one session, so if it was longer, it would be too long.

Phil: This reminds me of a...

Phil: There's a Twitter account called The Game Police.

Phil: Are you familiar with them?

Tom: No.

Phil: With The Game Police, basically, they police games.

Phil: So, like, one of their tweets is, Think of the last game you played.

Phil: How would you describe it?

Phil: Did you sort of just go around a bit?

Phil: If so, perhaps it wasn't a game at all.

Phil: Another one is, It's normal to feel embarrassed, perhaps even violated, when you realize what you've been playing isn't a game, but please do report it.

Phil: Also, they have a long-standing warrant out for Nobby Nobby Boy.

Phil: Suspect is multicolored, and...

Tom: So, this is actually Steel Attacks.

Tom: Twitter.

Phil: Yeah, it could be.

Phil: But looking at the graphics of this, it reminds me of the TRS-obviously much more advanced than that.

Phil: I mean, when you're navigating through the world, can you actually make sense of it?

Phil: I mean, it's such a blobby mess.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: When you're actually playing it, it looks fine.

Tom: You can understand what everything is.

Tom: You might not be able to work out what a specific species is.

Tom: There are these sort of somewhat primate-looking small creatures going around.

Tom: I have no idea what they're meant to be.

Tom: But there are owls and crabs.

Tom: You can identify...

Phil: Owls and crabs?

Tom: No, owls and crabs.

Tom: Not owl crabs, unfortunately.

Phil: Is there a burro?

Tom: No.

Tom: Well, there might be.

Tom: There wasn't on the island I explored.

Tom: But once again, gone.

Phil: Is this thing free?

Tom: No, it is not free.

Tom: I paid $for it on a humble bundle because I wanted something to finish in as quickly as possible so I could make it for eight games for the month.

Tom: That was my motivation for playing it.

Phil: All right, are you done with this?

Tom: No, I'm not.

Phil: Can you recommend it to us?

Tom: Yes, I can.

Tom: And here's the thing.

Tom: Once again, if this was, and there are a lot of these sort of animations going around, if this was just an animation with this art style, once again, have much less impact.

Tom: Because the fact that you can explore it and easily experience the seasons in the version of real time that the game follows makes it much more engaging than if it was, say, a time lapse video where you have no control over your movement in the thing.

Tom: It's like if you want to compare if Google Maps was actually, didn't look like completely not a crap.

Tom: If Google Maps looked awesome, that is much more enjoyable moving around Google Maps yourself than if you were to, say, go and watch someone driving around on the street.

Tom: Which sounds like an incredibly backhanded compliment, but it is a genuine compliment.

Phil: I gotta say, I don't get it.

Tom: Yeah, I would not recommend this game for you.

Tom: But I would recommend it if you might be interested in it.

Tom: For what it is, it is excellent, but it's going to have low appeal to a lot of people.

Phil: Maybe if it were in a Vita or a handheld device, I just think, you know, it's kind of like the theatre in which I enjoy the game has a lot to do with it.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Tom: Well, you've always had these sort of games on PC.

Phil: That's true.

Tom: And this is a PC game, so...

Phil: Yeah, I could enjoy it on that level.

Tom: It's in the right environment.

Phil: And it'll turn up in a humble bundle at some point.

Tom: I bought it in a humble bundle.

Phil: Oh, well, there you go.

Tom: Which, by the way, included Thomas was here, so you wasted your money.

Phil: I did.

Phil: I wasted my money by supporting the developer.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, if that's all for Proteus...

Tom: It is indeed.

Phil: We have our trademark Yakuza Killzone Minute.

Tom: And now for the most long-awaited, so that all your fears may be abated.

Tom: Sometimes a minute can seem like an hour.

Tom: It's at these moments we utilize Yakuza Killzone's power.

Tom: So says Tom and Phil.

Phil: In which we spend one minute talking about both Yakuza and Killzone.

Phil: The Yakuza HD Collection, as we spoke about on previous shows, is coming to the Wii U.

Phil: Toshihiro Nagoshi said, this is an experiment.

Phil: He said, to be honest, we're not aiming to see if this will be a smash hit.

Phil: Our real intention is that we want to see how people respond.

Tom: Well, it is Sega, so they're obviously not going to be aiming for anything to be a smash hit.

Phil: That's true at this point.

Phil: He said that the Yakuza series was born and bred on PlayStation hardware.

Phil: And he said, we're not jumping ship to Nintendo.

Phil: Yakuza and are coming out on the Wii U, and this is what it is.

Phil: Which is what it is, means a cheap cash in.

Phil: Nintendo is desperate for titles, and we're going to give them a game we've already made.

Tom: Exactly, and it looks worse on the Wii U.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, and that's not subjective.

Phil: I mean, if you look at the actual HD screens from Wii U and PlayStation the Wii U ones are inferior.

Phil: So do you have anything on the Killzone front?

Tom: I got another thing on Yakuza.

Tom: In that, I think it might have been the same interview.

Tom: Nagashi said, he was asked if there was any chance of Yakuza being available on DS in some form, or rather he said, sure, if you want a Yakuza game without people in it on the streets.

Phil: Brutal.

Phil: Oh my god, that is brutal.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Do you think, just quickly, do you think Yakuza would ever come to the Vita?

Phil: They didn't do a PSP game, I think.

Tom: With that comment, maybe that was the reason why they didn't do a PSP game, so maybe a Vita version might come around.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, we're just still hopeful for Yakuza coming to the west.

Tom: Now, as for Killzone, this is just a random short one.

Tom: This is basically, Guerrilla Games detailed how this downplay while you're downloading would work, so Michael van der Lout said, You're going to download a chunk of the game, get the menu in first level, and while you're playing the first level, we can start downloading the second in the background.

Tom: So that works exactly as we expect it to, and that is actually a pretty awesome feature.

Phil: Well, I see a big problem with this and one that you've overlooked, and that is this will be on PSN.

Tom: Oh, yes.

Phil: So just by downloading the developer logos and the start menu and the first level, you could quite easily get through that before the second level has been downloaded.

Tom: Well, you wouldn't be starting it until it says you download the first level and the menu.

Tom: So you have to have completed downloading the first level before you can start playing.

Phil: Right, but what I'm saying is you could start playing, beat the first level, and PSN would still be downloaded.

Tom: Of course, yeah, but that's the risk you take.

Tom: And that still seems like a pretty interesting feature to me, even if it does result in you playing the first level then getting stuck.

Tom: Being a veteran of Australian internet, I would be expecting that to happen.

Tom: So I would not be going into it expecting to be able to play the game from beginning to end as it downloads with Australian.

Phil: Well, at least you explain it.

Phil: And did I mention MLB the show?

Tom: Yes, you did.

Tom: And that's the other thing.

Tom: Actually, the best thing about this feature is it implies that perhaps now you will finally be able to continue downloading a game while playing another.

Tom: Or maybe this is just an issue I face.

Tom: But if I'm downloading a game, if I then open a game and play a game, the download immediately stops.

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Phil: It's terrible.

Phil: I mean, Sony needs a slap in the face on this whole internet thing.

Phil: It is just terrible.

Phil: So with that, we will move on, and we are going to, at this point, talk more about Deadly Premonition.

Tom: So the podcast has effectively ended for most people.

Phil: Well, just basically what I want to say is, we're not going to spoil anything, but we know that we've probably spent two hours on Deadly Premonition so far, and it is an ultra-niche title.

Phil: So if you are going to leave us at this point, we do thank you for listening, and again, we've been overwhelmed with the response that we've received from the show.

Phil: You can follow me on Twitter at Game Under Phil, and you can also come to gameunder.net to read Tom's past reviews.

Phil: We have a written word section, which is tremendous.

Phil: Tom's writing, of course, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably already know it is great.

Phil: And Tom, what's your latest review at laserleaming.com?

Tom: The Last Light review, I believe.

Phil: Oh, The Last Light review, which is a...

Phil: I reread that today, and it is a good review.

Phil: Even though we've talked about it here on the podcast, it's worth going and reading it most definitely.

Phil: So go to laserleaming.com and look that up.

Phil: And for those of you sticking around for Deadly Premonition, congratulations.

Phil: You are...

Phil: Just take off the velvet rope here.

Phil: You are now allowed to listen to us talk about the Deadly Premonition.

Tom: The final joke is most important, especially if what you desire must be important.

Tom: So let Game Under give you advice.

Tom: So the next game you play will be nice.

Tom: So says Tom and Phil.

Phil: So having bid a fond adieu to our non-Deadly Premonition listeners, and quite frankly, they're not the true listeners.

Phil: You are, dear listener, the one that's still listening here.

Phil: And right now we can say whatever we want because we know only the true followers of Phil Fogg, LG's and Tom Towers are listening.

Phil: This weekend, I observed the ending of Deadly Premonition and Director's Cut.

Phil: So I now have a full understanding of the alternate ending.

Tom: So the ending is different.

Phil: The ending has an alternate ending.

Phil: After the credits, there is something that changes.

Tom: OK, so it's not like they changed the final cut scene.

Phil: Sadly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Sadly, there's no real alternate ending.

Phil: They basically just add something to the end, which I think I can say without spoiling the game, suggests a sequel.

Phil: Now, we know that no sequel has been announced.

Phil: We know that no sequel is certainly commercially viable.

Phil: So this Director's Cut was probably testing the waters to see if it were to be commercially viable.

Phil: I don't think there's going to be a Deadly Premonition sequel at all.

Tom: For example, what's another game you can think of that was extremely loved by a large amount of people that was bigger than this that suggested a sequel very explicitly in its ending?

Phil: Shenmue.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And also Psychonauts as well.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Phil: So after the credits, they don't really change the ending.

Phil: They just give you additional information after the credits.

Phil: So I got to say, and then in the menu, there is a extras section.

Tom: Special section.

Phil: Yeah, I opened that up, and it is the same as in the original, which basically means you can listen to any song, you can watch any cut scene.

Phil: It's not anything extra at all.

Tom: That is awful.

Phil: Yeah, it's a pretty sad director's cut.

Phil: I mean, they improved the controls, they improved the combat, but beyond that, they really didn't add anything at all to this game other than giving you the false hope of a sequel.

Phil: And I'm not going to go into details as to what they say.

Phil: I'll leave that for you to see for yourself.

Phil: It doesn't diminish the original game.

Phil: If you haven't played it before, I mean, it has a tremendous ending, absolutely tremendous, one that will stick with you for years to come in terms of the impression that it makes.

Phil: But in terms of a director's cut and an alternate ending and all the rest of it, this game kind of fell down pretty far in terms of offering true fans anything extra.

Phil: I mean, when Resident Evil has a director's cut or something like that, you know, you have alternate costumes, you have alternate endings, extra levels, and Deadly Premonition really didn't offer anything other than this hint after the credits and a couple of additional HD cut scenes throughout the game.

Tom: That is a shame.

Phil: Yeah, it is a shame.

Tom: It's not too surprising given the budget of the game.

Tom: You couldn't really expect too much else, I would say.

Phil: Yeah, coming back to it years after, Sony obviously was the ones putting up the money for the release.

Phil: So, yeah, you couldn't have expected much.

Phil: And actually, we got so much more out of it, which was just an opportunity to replay the game.

Phil: So Velvet replayed it as soon as she got it, even though she was deep into other games and played hours essentially straight until she got to the end.

Phil: And I do intend to replay it myself as well.

Phil: And trophies, you get trophies.

Tom: But you had achievements, so it's the same.

Tom: So one disappointing thing about the extras though, hearing that is, what they could have presumably done without spending too much money is stick in some crappy making of or something along those lines.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Or concept art or bits of the script, that sort of random stuff.

Tom: It surely isn't going to cost much that they could have included.

Phil: Or a minute, fuck man, give me a minute interview with Swery.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Just sit the guy down in a room with a cup of coffee, you know, you can have some FK in his coffee, that's fine.

Phil: And just let me listen to the guy with a translator.

Phil: That would have been worth $a line.

Phil: You know, it's just so half-assed.

Tom: And that's what I had in my mind the whole time that I saw Special there, that it was going to include that sort of stuff.

Phil: Yeah, look, concept art, you already have the concept art, just digitize it.

Phil: You have the original script, include it as a PDF that if we put the disc in our PC that it can read the PDF for the script.

Phil: And a to minute interview with Swery.

Phil: Or round up the voice actors who obviously don't get paid or much work for anything.

Phil: They probably would have came in for bucks.

Phil: Talk to some of the voice actors.

Phil: Who wouldn't want to see York's voice actor or Emily's voice actor or Forrest Cason's voice actor or Woodman, George Woodman, you know?

Phil: Anyway, having said that, you're still playing the game.

Phil: You haven't got to the end of it.

Phil: You're playing it for the first time.

Tom: And I'm up to chapter

Tom: So I'm still...

Tom: That's probably about two-thirds of the way through.

Tom: So I've still got a while to go yet.

Tom: And I still haven't reviewed it.

Tom: So somewhere out there, there's an incredibly annoyed PR person.

Phil: Oh, I don't think so.

Phil: I mean, they've already gotten two hours of our podcast.

Tom: That is true.

Tom: That is true.

Tom: And so the longer I take, the more podcasts they'll be getting, going to be getting.

Phil: You should be totally emailing that dude, you know, letting him know that we are talking about this game at least one hour every week.

Tom: At the very least, I'll include that in my review email to him.

Tom: The first thing I like to say is there is no way this is a badly designed game.

Tom: I think the thing about it is, and this was probably a lot worse on the the mechanics are awful.

Tom: There's no getting around that fact.

Tom: And if the controls were worse on the this would have been just incredibly annoying.

Tom: What were the controls on the by the way?

Phil: Well, basically the same.

Phil: I mean, you're using the two sticks, you know, you're using button presses when needed, you know, just typical video game stuff.

Tom: So what was altered exactly?

Tom: Because you had said the controls are better.

Phil: Oh, the controls are better, not in terms of like the buttons you use or the sticks you use.

Phil: It's just basically, in terms of how you move through the environments, it's just being made a little bit easier.

Phil: They don't move the camera around as much, sort of thing.

Tom: Well, that in mind, this is the thing on the mechanics.

Tom: Except for the driving and the shooting, I don't think the mechanics are actually bad.

Tom: The running around, there's nothing wrong with that.

Tom: It's perfectly functional.

Tom: Driving itself is functional once you have upgraded your police car or got a better car than the default police car and jeep, which are just abysmally awful.

Phil: Exactly.

Tom: So the driving is fine.

Tom: It's just that the physics engine is ridiculous.

Tom: So every now and then, you're going to be driving with your car partly submerged in the asphalt.

Tom: You're going to be randomly jumping here and there.

Tom: And if you're driving a fast car, there's this hilarious thing that happens where it basically feels like the physics engine cannot keep up with the car.

Tom: So you're driving along, and you turn, and the car turns.

Tom: Then it starts skidding and just jumps around randomly or flips over, but not when you would expect it to.

Tom: So you might hit a jump, you drive over the jump, then a few meters after that, your car jumps in the air, that sort of thing, which is hilarious.

Tom: And you can say that the physics are bad, but the driving is perfectly functional.

Tom: The shooting is functional.

Tom: It's just not fun whatsoever, but perfectly functional.

Tom: So at this stage, I'm not sure how you can necessarily think that the game is poorly designed, except based on your first impression, because the pacing of the gameplay is actually excellent.

Phil: Yeah, it's very good.

Tom: They know when to put you in one of the survival horror sections, where you're going around killing people.

Tom: They know when to give you a soul, partly just going around talking to people.

Tom: And they also, though this is partly random based, but generally they also know when to make the side quests overtly obvious to you.

Tom: So if you're in a section of story that is mainly about downtime, you're going to be bumping into more people that are doing side quests because of the time of day that they've set that section of the game.

Tom: And maybe this was just completely serendipitous to how I was playing it though, but that's the impression I got.

Tom: But even if it's not, the pacing is excellent.

Tom: So design wise, I think it is actually a well designed game.

Tom: The thing about it is, it is not designed as you would expect most games to be.

Tom: So while the pacing is excellent, it doesn't follow traditional pacing.

Tom: If it was paced traditionally as a game like this would be, as you would expect a open world game with mission sections to be paced, you would expect more regularity in what you're doing.

Tom: So you wouldn't get longer sections where you're just driving around and you don't get to do a survival horror section for a long amount of time, and you wouldn't have to do a couple of them short in a row.

Tom: It would be a much more sort of formulaic and rhythmic pacing design, right?

Phil: Yeah, because I'm a different kind of game player, I really like to immerse myself in the character.

Phil: So it never occurred to me when I was driving around that, oh, I've been driving around for a long time without any sort of horror dungeon.

Tom: That's the thing, I think, because it does do that differently, and that is the reason that it does it, which I'll go into in a second.

Tom: But I think that's probably where a lot of people get hung up on it and where a lot of the bad reviews, apart from the first impressions, apart from those, I think a lot of people are going to have trouble appreciating because it does things so differently to other games.

Tom: Even the good things it does, it does them differently to how you would expect them to be done, even as they would be done in a Japanese game.

Tom: So people aren't going to have a point of reference, so they're going to come across it, and because it's different, they're not going to be able to appreciate it.

Phil: Well, I think a lot of people got hung up on the bad cutscenes, you know?

Phil: I mean, the voice acting isn't bad, but it sometimes is stilted.

Tom: Especially in the sidequests.

Phil: And the framing of the shots is poor.

Phil: And I think that that's what people are going to get hung up on as well.

Phil: But you know, it's an easy...

Phil: If you're moving too fast, it's an easy game to misinterpret, and I think that's what most critics got stuck with.

Phil: Because you know, the review cycle is so hurried, where you've got a game, you've got to review it, you've got to have the review out on the release date.

Phil: And if you're just going by first impressions or casual impressions, while you're listening to MPs, just to beat this game in hours, yeah, you're going to miss a lot.

Tom: And well, that's the thing, because the pacing is set up to basically simulate the passage of time as it is to York.

Tom: And it's done excellently.

Tom: The balancing of having it at three times speed works so perfectly.

Tom: And I can't think of a game that has done the passage of time so excellently to basically feel like you are going over a full day, where it's long enough that you can spend like an hour, and you think, OK, I've spent a significant amount of time in the game.

Tom: You might spend an hour in most other games of this nature, and you've basically gone through an entire day, right?

Tom: But here...

Phil: Or in some cases a week.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: But you spend an hour here, and you've only gone through a third of the day, so it's still the same sort of weather conditions and the same...

Tom: the sun's in the same sort of position.

Tom: So it feels like you have actually only spent an hour real time, but it's not so bogged down.

Tom: Then you do another hour, and OK, so now it's another hour, so it's another third of the day, so it's evening.

Phil: It's not tiring, like some games.

Phil: Like some games make you feel like you've really actually lived a day in the life of this person.

Phil: But yeah, the pacing in this game in terms of the depiction of real time passing is entirely unprecedented.

Phil: I've never seen anything like it in a game.

Tom: And there was one minor problem I had with this was I didn't realize that cigarettes could pass time, so I was stuck for a long time, working on their stupid three-hour increments and wondering why the hell they didn't just include one hour so I could get to the goddamn time I needed to be at for the story.

Phil: And all you had to do was smoke.

Tom: Who knew?

Phil: Well, I didn't know either until Belvich pointed that out to me.

Tom: So the other thing, major thing, before we just go into random little tidbits that I wanted to talk about was, yeah, this is definitely not a Twin Peaks parody, now that I've played more of it.

Tom: So you were correct all along.

Phil: So disregard the prior podcast.

Tom: Well, no, in fact, do not disregard it, because here's the thing about the beginning.

Tom: It's not intentionally a Twin Peaks parody.

Tom: There's no doubt about that.

Tom: But the beginning of the game is, through sheer coincidence, a very accurate Twin Peaks parody in many of the things it does.

Tom: So intentions aside, it is still, at the beginning, a very effective Twin Peaks parody.

Tom: But after that, you get to know the characters more, and it becomes clearly apparent that it's not Twin Peaks parody.

Tom: And it just generally grows out of that.

Tom: So yeah.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, they have a log lady.

Phil: I mean, they have, you know, I mean, there are specific things.

Phil: And Swery says this has nothing to do with Twin Peaks, probably because that's what his lawyers told him to say.

Phil: But at a certain point, all of that doesn't matter.

Phil: The setting doesn't matter.

Phil: You become Emily and York and Woodman and Kason and Thomas just start to fill the screen.

Phil: These characters are larger than whatever this game starts out to be.

Phil: These characters just envelop your entire being, really.

Phil: If that's not too much hyperbole, I'm right, right?

Tom: Well, I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but it is excellent.

Tom: But just the last thing on that note, for the record, by the way, once again, just so that I'm not drawn into any misinterpretation through your statement, once again, if this had in fact been a % Twin Peaks parody, I would have had no less respect for it whatsoever.

Tom: And you remember my satirical blogs from GameSpot, right?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: So those, for example, included probably some of the more work than I put into reviews.

Tom: So that's my opinion on satire.

Tom: I hold it in the same regard as original works.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: I mean, to say something like satire is a lesser work, absolutely not.

Phil: I was just saying that this Japanese dude, you know, probably wouldn't be capable with his lack of speaking English to pull off a good satire.

Phil: It was more like, oh, that's a cool setting.

Phil: Hey, I got an idea.

Phil: How about an FBI agent that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?

Tom: Yeah, and that's absolutely what I think it is now having played more.

Phil: So in terms of the script, how did you find the dialogue?

Tom: Well, I've come to the conclusion that this is probably the best script of the generation.

Tom: I was going to say one of possibly the best comic scripts full stop in games, but...

Tom: But, but then I remembered a lot of games that I played, and that is certainly not true whatsoever.

Tom: And I think it's important to note that it's the best comic script of this generation for the reason that it is.

Tom: Now, I believe last time we discussed about how good the script was, yes?

Phil: Oh, absolutely.

Phil: I mean, you had only just started the game, but I was talking about the in-car dialogues, where he talked about movies from the s and s.

Tom: And the reason that it is so good, though, is because despite it being humorous, which is irrelevant because this would apply to a serious game as well, the reason that it is so good is because the dialogue is generally very natural and believable.

Tom: Now, with this generation and to a lesser degree the previous generation, but especially with this generation, writing has got better in inverted commas in gaming.

Tom: And I put it in inverted commas because this means that we've gone from amateur people doing writing to professionals of the lowest level.

Tom: So the professionals doing the writing of games today are well-educated, as in they're the sort of people who have read a lot of books on how to write and probably have done a few university degrees on writing as well.

Phil: Well, I mean, what has happened is that in video games in the past, the dialogue was written by the programmers, right?

Phil: The guys that did the graphics and everything else were the guys that wrote the story.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: It's amateur writers, even if they're professional.

Phil: And in addition to that, you've seen the decline of jobs for people who are writers.

Phil: I mean, newspapers, magazines have all been laying off people.

Phil: Books are generally only sold by known brands, right?

Phil: It's hard to break through if you're not a known brand or...

Phil: I'm not going to say what it is, okay?

Phil: or a minority.

Phil: So...

Tom: Or Tom Towers.

Phil: Or Tom Towers.

Phil: So, I mean, basically what you've seen is the move from the industry going from amateurs, and you've also seen people who used to make money writing having to take on jobs like gaming.

Phil: So you have seen an overall increase in the quality of writing in games.

Tom: But the thing is, the increase in the quality of writing in games, the level it has reached is the educated but untalented.

Tom: So every script is written exactly to the formula of not even what is fashionable at the time, but whatever class they have taken or book on writing they have read.

Tom: It is literally that awful.

Tom: So The Walking Dead, which is a reasonably well written game, and I am using this because I went to play The Walking Dead while playing Deadly Premonition.

Tom: So when you are reading the dialogue on The Walking Dead, you can see the exact formula they are using.

Tom: And when you are reading it and listening to it, it just screams this is a script because it is written following the rules of script writing.

Tom: So to get something that isn't utterly horrible crap, you need to actually progress beyond this level of professionalism.

Tom: Or you need to regress to amateurism, because if you got amateurs, you got a better chance of finding someone who is talented.

Tom: The reason for this is there might be many people talented writing games right now, but because of the level of professionalism that it is, they can't use their talent.

Tom: They've got to follow this formula, because it is what is % expected from them.

Tom: So they can't actually do what they think they might be doing, right?

Tom: But if you...

Phil: Well, slow that down.

Phil: Okay, so in video game writing right now, you've got people who are technically proficient, people who have studied how scripts are written.

Tom: Technically proficient, technically at the bottom level of being passable.

Phil: Technically trained.

Tom: Technically trained, but not proficient.

Phil: So you have people who are technically trained, people who maybe went to USC and did script writing and went to the video games program there.

Phil: But you are saying that there is a possibility that there are great writers in video gaming, but they have to stick to the basic format and formula.

Phil: You are saying this is too professional.

Tom: Well, it's too professional because it's at such a low professional level.

Tom: Because the other thing to consider in this is that a lot of people would be at an early point in their career, so they would be much under the thumb of what they are being told to do as well.

Tom: You look at the sort of more established people that are getting into games writing, and a lot of them are pretty much hacks, to put it kindly.

Tom: But you're getting the same level of work, because that's what's being expected of people.

Phil: And the standouts are people like Lorne Lanning from The Oddworld Games or Amy Henning from The Uncharted Games, where they could be writing TV series or movies or whatever, but they get more of a kick out of the creative process of being able to not only create characters through dialogue, but also create the actual characters.

Phil: Right?

Phil: I mean, Amy Henning, I mean, if given the choice of writing a script where you get to craft the character through dialogue, but you ultimately at the end of the day still have to deal with a director and an actor who are going to tell you their interpretation of your character.

Phil: That's where Amy Henning has the upper hand because she creates the character and she doesn't have to deal with a director because she's the creative director of the game.

Phil: And the actor is, you know, beyond the voice actor, all her, under her control as well.

Phil: So, yeah, I can see, definitely see the appeal, but I can only come up with two names in the whole sphere of gaming that is on that level.

Tom: Well, that's the point.

Tom: And those are in big games.

Tom: The other games that you find that have random snippets of good writing are stuff like Deadly Premonition, which is clearly a very low-budget job.

Tom: And that's the thing, because if you are below this level of professionalism, then the people involved are going to have more freedom.

Tom: And this is one of the reasons I enjoy playing random-budget adventure games.

Phil: Because they're flying under the radar.

Tom: And so they're free to do whatever they want, and they're also not attempting to be more professional.

Tom: So they're not trying to write a strip like this that is going to get them a job elsewhere, necessarily.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: So they're writing what they want to.

Phil: This is their heart.

Phil: They're not writing this to get the attention of someone else so they can get a job.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: But there's also another aspect to it as well, and that is that with the amateurism, you can actually get a lot of unintentionally good writing.

Tom: Now, that might sound contradictory, but it is perfectly possible.

Tom: So for example, The Book of Unwritten Tales, which I would say is in terms of the writing, is probably better than the script in Deadly Premonition.

Tom: But Deadly Premonition deserves more kudos because it manages to draw so much humor out of the writing from the characters, not just as in it shoves in jokes that are amusing, which is really above the vast majority of games, full stop.

Tom: But the writing in The Book of Unwritten Tales is excellent, and the reason you could say it is unintentionally good, and this could be wrong, but it's the same with the voice acting.

Tom: It's got a lot of rhyming and repetition in it.

Tom: Now, of course, this is, if you are on the level of the professionalism that most games are, you're going to be going through an editing to remove any rhymes or any repetition as a rule.

Tom: This is going to result in you being unable to actually create an aesthetic where you want it to, and also it can interfere with the emotion that you're attempting to achieve because you might want to use repetition for a point.

Tom: So The Book of Unwritten Tales manages to achieve an aesthetic through the repetition.

Tom: But of course, you could of course say that this is, all the repetition and rhyming is simply because of bad writing, and just through luck, it manages to create a good aesthetic.

Tom: But to me, that doesn't end up mattering.

Tom: So you end up coming, even if it is through accident, good writing in lower budget stuff.

Tom: And this was the case in games from previous generations.

Tom: And the other reason to assume that it might not have been entirely intentional is that this was done away with in the sequels of the game, as was the excellent voice acting, which became incredibly generic.

Phil: So they probably hired...

Phil: This is the German point and click adventure.

Phil: They probably hired professionals for the sequels, right?

Phil: That's right, yeah.

Phil: As opposed to doing it themselves.

Phil: They're like, we'll focus on the engine, we'll focus on the game, we'll hire some people that actually know how to write, blah, blah, blah.

Tom: Yeah, or they could have simply hired a different translation firm.

Tom: And just last thing on this sort of thing.

Tom: Once again, another thing that is far ahead of even most triple-A high-budget games in voice acting in this game is the fact that they actually mix a lot of the dialogue to the scene that the people are in.

Tom: And this is because, as a rule, this is not done in Western voice acting, but is done in Japanese.

Tom: So I don't know if this was something that came across from Swery and the Japanese developers, but if you've got the characters in a big echo-y area, they've added reverb to the voices.

Tom: And if they're outside, there's no reverb and that sort of thing, which you do not find quite bizarrely, and I've never understood why this is the case.

Tom: You rarely find this in even very high-budget games and even films that are made in the West.

Phil: Yeah, so why don't they do the ambient-type recording, right?

Tom: Yeah, I do not know.

Tom: I don't understand why.

Phil: Next week, we'll record our podcast in a picnic playground-type setting just to demonstrate exactly how this works.

Phil: That is bizarre, though.

Phil: But now you point that out, that's absolutely right.

Phil: Like, when you're playing Gears of War, it doesn't matter if you're in a room or if you're out in the field.

Phil: They never actually change the audio to suit the setting that you're in.

Phil: Wow, mind-blowing.

Tom: Which is awesome.

Phil: So for listeners who have listened thus far into the podcast, your mind has been blown.

Phil: You have been rewarded for listening thus far.

Phil: For the most part, though, we haven't even been talking directly about Deadly Premonition.

Phil: That's true.

Tom: Well, I am actually going to say something directly related to Deadly Premonition.

Tom: And it's just a little thing.

Tom: And stuff like this which makes it so exceptionally good.

Tom: Now, I'm not going to use any character names, but I think we can say that someone gets murdered.

Tom: That's not a spoiler.

Phil: Characters get murdered throughout this game.

Tom: So the mother of one of the murdered characters is a complete mess.

Tom: They've gone around in...

Tom: They've descended into alcohol abuse and are delusional, right?

Phil: Well, I wouldn't say it's possible to abuse alcohol.

Tom: Well, this is an American game, not an Australian game.

Phil: Oh, that's true.

Tom: It's set in America, not in Australia.

Tom: So I went to visit them at one stage, you know, and I got a random side quest, so that's fine.

Tom: And it did a little bit of character development.

Tom: There was some absolutely terrible writing, because whenever the game attempts to be somewhat dramatic, the writing and the acting just goes out the window.

Tom: I should say melodramatic.

Tom: The writing and the acting just becomes hilariously awful.

Tom: But there was some character development there, so I thought, you know, that's okay.

Tom: So the side quests, they do add a little to the characters.

Tom: That's all right.

Tom: And they're fun to do sometimes.

Tom: But then I went back a while later, and there was no side quest there, but one of the character in question's best friends was there.

Tom: And so I thought, you know, that was cool as well.

Tom: So they're looking after them.

Tom: But they had in fact made them dinner, which I thought was, you know, it's not the sort of thing you would be expecting to find.

Tom: And I thought it was very effective and quite touching.

Phil: What?

Tom: So I was just randomly exploring the game world, right?

Tom: And the characters live out their own lives.

Phil: Yes, yes.

Phil: You can go probe on people.

Phil: You can go look in their windows, and this will unlock trophies or achievements.

Tom: And so you find this in many games, but they're just following the same...

Phil: Why were we?

Phil: You find this in many games?

Tom: Well, there are some games that do that sort of thing.

Tom: They've got an ecosystem with the characters and whatnot.

Phil: Well, there's certainly tons of games out there where the NPCs are living their own lives.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: But I don't think to the extent, as in Deadly Premonition, where...

Tom: But that's what I'm saying.

Tom: This is what was so good about it.

Tom: So up until this point that I came across this, I was thinking, okay, so they do...

Tom: They go from their jobs and home and whatnot, so that's okay, but unspectacular.

Tom: But then I went here and there was, you know, an emotional thing relevant to the story that was taking place that I could have never stumbled across, but I did just from randomly exploring, which I thought was a pretty awesome detail to have in there.

Phil: That is, and that is what makes sidequesting so valuable in this game, unlike in any other game, because, you know, you're doing a random thing, and trust me, I think the interaction is going to be pretty random.

Phil: Did you get a trophy for that, incidentally, from seeing that scene?

Tom: No, because that wasn't a sidequest, that was just what the characters were doing as part of their own routine, unrelated to any sidequest.

Phil: By saying sidequest, I mean really like trophy hunting.

Tom: It's unrelated to that.

Phil: Yeah, because there are trophies for like, you know, spying on Emily when it's raining after at night.

Tom: I can imagine.

Phil: You're going to get a certain trophy for this or that because of things that you're observing at certain times.

Tom: Well, maybe there was a trophy and I just didn't stay around for long enough because as good as it was, my attention span wasn't long enough for me to wait for them to start eating it because they walk so slowly.

Phil: And as you can well imagine, I didn't do any of the perv side stuff in this game whatsoever because I just wanted to know what was going to happen next.

Tom: You just somehow know this fact.

Phil: Well, I read a lot.

Tom: Yeah, okay, sure.

Tom: Reading, that's what it was.

Phil: That's what it was.

Phil: Are we done with Deadly Premonition for this week?

Tom: No, no.

Phil: Whoa, what?

Tom: I'm just going to completely sidetrack once more on, once again, the same thing.

Tom: Now, on spying on people, this was pretty awesome.

Tom: Early on, there's a character involved, once again, completely unrelated to the story and to any side quest, so you would just be stumbling across them by accident.

Tom: You can go and talk to them and spy on them.

Tom: And if you do this, it's basically predicting what is going to happen in the story like hours later.

Phil: Really?

Tom: Which is awesome.

Phil: How do you know this?

Phil: The game's only hours long.

Tom: I've got to the point where this was basically leading up to this.

Tom: Whatever the result of, the final result of what is happening, this was clearly their way of saying this is going to happen.

Tom: And I won't go into more details on that because it is a spoiler.

Phil: Alright, well, so is that it, sir?

Tom: Yes, it is.

Phil: We are done?

Tom: Yes, we may now finish the podcast.

Phil: With Deadly Premonition, and we are done with The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: Again, if you weren't listening earlier, you can follow me on Twitter at Game Under Phil.

Phil: You can stream our show at gameunder.net, or you can subscribe to us on iTunes or through your RSS feed.

Phil: It's all at our website gameunder.net.

Phil: But I would really encourage you to go to our written word section, where we have some of Tom's reviews, and we're slowly getting up all of Tom's prior reviews for you to read and features.

Phil: I mean, you did a new thing recently.

Phil: You did a review of a film Torn Curtain.

Tom: Yep, that wasn't really recent.

Phil: Well, but I mean, it's recent in terms of the scale of history.

Phil: This was the first film that you've reviewed.

Phil: Correct.

Tom: And our first traditional written word content.

Phil: Yeah, that's a big deal.

Phil: So check that out, Torn Curtain.

Phil: And we appreciate our listeners.

Phil: So I'm Phil Fogg, LG's, you are?

Tom: Tom Towers, T's.

Phil: And a W?

Tom: Yes, yes, a W as well.

Phil: And E's.

Phil: And we've been here before.

Phil: So thank you for listening to The Game under.net podcast.

Phil: We appreciate your comments and we'll see you next week.

Tom: And it's actually only .

Game Under Episode 7

Stream above, or right-click then save as to download here. You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS?

News
2:00 Xbox One Conference
8:50 Game.Com  Console Gets Some Respect
8:55 Back to Xbox One Conference
21:55 Tom's Scathing Attack on Microsoft
22:55 Phil's Shameless Defense of Microsoft
26:20 Resumption of Xbox One Conference Discussion
38:30 What the Wii Did Right With Motion Control
48:30 The Positives of the Xbox One Reveal
50:40 The Look of the PS4
51:40 So What about the Copyright Infringing Directional Pad?

Final Thoughts (Games We Finished)
58:45 Malicious (PS3/ Vita)
1:05:59 Resistance 3 Best FPS of this Generation?
1:09:30 Tomb Raider Impressions

First Impressions (Games We Started)
1:31:10 Deadly Premonition: Director's Cut

Tom Tower's Mindless Self Indulgence
2:14:17 An Excerpt From Malicious

Transcript

Phil: There is, of course, only one thing to talk about this week, but we'll also give our impressions of the games we've played, like Costume Quest, Tomb Raider Resistance Deadly Premonition, Last Light, that's the Metro game, Revelations, that's the Resident Evil game, and Malicious!

Phil: It's all in the-

Tom: That's the PSgame!

Phil: From the stuff!

Tom: And for those that weren't able to hear this, I also destroyed his intro before we started recording.

Phil: When I was thinking, one is the onlyest number?

Tom: Now, as you can probably tell from that, this is The Game Under Podcast, episode seven, and this week we'll be focused on Xbox One.

Tom: So why don't we just simply jump right into it?

Phil: Well, before that, we've gotta have our trademark banter.

Phil: This is, of course, episode seven, and I know we've done some market research.

Phil: I know there's, we've got a fairly good following amongst Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt and Kevin Spacey fans.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And of course-

Tom: I thought you were gonna say amongst those actors themselves.

Phil: Ha!

Phil: They're not following me on Twitter yet, and you can follow me on Twitter, Game Under Phil.

Phil: But, obviously, I mean, seven, what's in the box?

Phil: And here we are with episode seven.

Phil: We timed it perfectly.

Phil: But as we've discussed-

Tom: Amazing.

Phil: As we've discussed before, we know all this stuff in advance.

Phil: We recorded this back in December, so.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And honestly, the most mind-blowing thing about the whole thing is that all these features that we knew back in December haven't actually changed.

Phil: No, yeah.

Phil: Well, and also that we were able to keep it quiet.

Tom: Yeah, well, we're good at keeping secrets, so that doesn't surprise me.

Phil: There is only one thing to talk about this week, obviously, and I don't want to get into the inside football or inside baseball talk about the conference itself, right?

Phil: It was a -minute conference, and it basically consisted of TV, sports, Call of Duty and the hardware reveal, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Not necessarily split evenly.

Phil: So I don't want to go into talking about were they right or wrong to do this conference now, should they have waited until Eshould they have focused more on games and all the rest of it.

Phil: I just want to say this one thing about this conference.

Phil: They were stupid to even bring up three quarters of the stuff that they did after the conference, right?

Phil: Had they just stuck to the conference and then anytime someone brought up any of the controversial things that they did, they should have just said, oh, we're not talking about that right now.

Phil: What we're talking about is the emphasis that the Microsoft, what's it called?

Phil: The Xbox One has on TV, sports and Call of Duty, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: That's what we're talking about today.

Tom: It comes across as extreme backpedaling, to say the least.

Phil: Well, for them to then start answering, just opening questions to the floor.

Phil: Okay, anyone, any questions?

Phil: What about backward compatibility?

Phil: What about DRM?

Phil: What about used games?

Phil: You know, and then just...

Tom: To which their reply is, we're not going to do that, but we are actually going to do it.

Phil: Right, right.

Tom: To make matters worse.

Phil: We will get into the details, but basically what I'll say about this is that the presentation itself was innocuous enough.

Phil: I mean, their excuse for it and not showing the games was that, well, we wanted to get all of this stuff out of the way before E

Phil: So at Ebecause, you know, it is impossible to have a good conference these days with the Internet and Twitter and everything else, right?

Phil: No matter what you do.

Phil: Sony last year had a perfect conference, but then they spent seemingly hours on The Wonder Book, and that's all anyone ever talked about, right?

Tom: So it is a question of degrees of poor reception, you would have to say.

Phil: Right, and I did say you can't have a good conference anymore, but by comparison, the PlayStation reveal at this point is, like, genius.

Tom: Legendary.

Phil: Well, previous console announcements were more...

Phil: We're in an entire new territory here, because usually these things are devolved to Eright?

Phil: Where they'll come out and they'll announce the system the year before, right?

Phil: And then you'll have a whole year of basically nothing going on.

Phil: And then at the next Ethat's when they announce, and we're going to be bringing it out November th for $right?

Phil: And now, with the speed of the Internet, you can't...

Phil: I mean, can you imagine how disastrous it would be?

Tom: Well, Nintendo actually somewhat suffered from that problem, because they announced the Wii U and they gave a reasonable amount of details, then ages later, they finally had the Nintendo Direct proper unveiling.

Phil: And then they went a whole year of people coming up with how spectacular this was going to be, right?

Phil: And then when the reality hit, it was like, oh...

Phil: And then when the product hit and they were like, all these features are going to be rolled out later after you've already bought it, I mean, it got worse and worse and worse.

Phil: So these companies, Microsoft and Sony, are smart to preempt Eand then at Egive more detail and then launch four months later.

Phil: That's a much more sustainable PR advertising cycle.

Tom: But I think, especially in the case of Microsoft, Sony did it all right, but they've really not been able to adapt whatsoever to the change in marketing.

Tom: And when you look at all the post-marketing stuff as well, the wording of it, stuff like, our cloud servers are going to be more powerful than the internet in sounds like stuff you would be hearing around the time of the Xbox announcement, ridiculously hyperbolic, even if true, but over-the-top, rather irrelevant sort of statements.

Phil: Or a similar kind of statement where they've said that just by itself, the Microsoft, what's it, I hate this name.

Tom: The Xbox One.

Phil: The Xbox One is ten times more powerful than the but with the cloud, it's times more powerful than the

Phil: Yeah, these meaningless statements.

Phil: But to this point, I mean, the thing that Nintendo did right, I mean, everyone was complaining about at the time, but basically a week before the game system was going to launch, there was still all these questions about what its functionality was going to be.

Phil: And Microsoft, you know, as they say in sales, you only get one chance for a first impression, right?

Phil: You only get one shot at making a good first impression.

Phil: This was Microsoft's first impression.

Phil: The least said, the better.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: If they had just come and done, okay, we don't want to blow everyone's mind at E

Phil: This is what the hardware looks like.

Phil: This is our awesome controller.

Phil: Here are some of our awesome first party games.

Phil: We're only going to show you the CGI stuff, but that's fine.

Tom: Or just even tell you what they are.

Tom: You don't even need to show anything.

Phil: Or show a quick video that shows like three seconds for each one.

Phil: Bam, bam, bam.

Phil: And let the internet dissect it, right?

Phil: And then, thanks everyone, good night.

Phil: As opposed to a -minute presentation about TV, sports and Call of Duty.

Phil: And then afterwards, being so stupid as to answer every fucking question thrown your way, right?

Phil: Could the Xbox One cause cancer?

Phil: And then the answer is not, of course not.

Phil: The answer is not, well, conceivably.

Phil: The answer is, oh, well, you know, a lot of these things do cause cancer with the EMFs and whatnot, so it's entirely possible.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, sure.

Phil: It could cause cancer.

Phil: And then the headline is, you know, Xbox One causes cancer.

Phil: Before we get too far off the shelf, I mean, everyone knows all of this stuff already, so we're just going to throw some stuff off of each other.

Phil: But let's go over the name, Xbox One.

Tom: So, you know, you seem to think this is the worst ever name in console history.

Phil: It is the worst ever name in console history.

Tom: Because I would...

Tom: I'm not sure I'd go that far because in your list, you posted a list on a forum, on the VJ Press, listing some of the worst titled consoles of all time, and amongst them was game.com.

Tom: Now, how on earth is game.com a better title than Xbox One?

Phil: Well, number one, this was, like, basically as the internet was launching.

Phil: So the guys that own game.com now are hundreds of millions of dollars richer.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But also, it was pronounced as game.com.

Tom: With the pronunciation in mind, that's not too bad.

Phil: Yeah, game.com is fine.

Phil: It's a gaming computer, and that's how it's supposed to be pronounced.

Phil: It was from Tiger, and it is actually game.com.

Phil: It did have a modem in it.

Phil: It's a handheld computer that had touch controls with a stylus.

Phil: And you could connect it to the internet.

Phil: It had a little phone jack in the back.

Phil: It had a K modem built in.

Phil: Absolutely unplayable.

Phil: You cannot operate.

Phil: I have both the original version and the slim version.

Phil: And almost, I think I've got three games in its entire library that I don't own.

Phil: And every single game is completely and entirely unplayable.

Phil: It's black and white dot matrix.

Tom: I've just got one question for you about it.

Tom: Does time fly when it's Tiger time?

Phil: Does not.

Phil: It drags.

Tom: That's a pity.

Tom: This is how much we love it that we just spent a long time talking about Tiger and game.com.

Phil: The Xbox One is the dumbest name ever.

Phil: It would be like if Sony had announced that the PlayStation was going to be called Xbox One, PlayStation One.

Phil: And needless to say, as my Twitter followers already know, PlayStation did this.

Phil: Remember the PlayStation One?

Tom: Yes, I do.

Phil: The O&E?

Tom: Yes, I do.

Phil: The $?

Phil: Yeah, I have one.

Phil: I have never opened the box.

Tom: See, I quite like both of those.

Phil: I do too.

Phil: They're cute and they have the little white controllers.

Tom: Well, with that in mind, with the fact that it's game.com, not game.com, I would say it wouldn't be too much of a ridiculous statement to say that it is the worst title ever.

Tom: The reason, of course, that Sony got away from it is that that is a version of the first PlayStation, the PSis.

Phil: The first PlayStation is just the PlayStation and then the slim was the PSI guess.

Tom: It just makes no sense.

Tom: I mean, it's as if they realized how shit the name was and that there was really nothing they could do to continue from it and yet instead of coming up with a completely unrelated naming system that didn't rely on numbers, they came up with one.

Tom: The other thing that makes no sense about it is perhaps if they were going to be marketing this as a complete % return to the roots of the original Xbox.

Tom: Don't get me wrong, it's still a terrible name, but there's some logic behind it, right?

Tom: But calling this the Xbox One, I just cannot come up with any argument no matter how stupid to justify.

Phil: The only comfort I can get from this is that there are people inside of Microsoft who not only...

Phil: we cringe.

Phil: There are people inside of Microsoft who are having aneurysms because they lost this battle, right?

Phil: I mean, people who are going to work for six months in a row going, we cannot call it the Xbox One.

Phil: Trust us, that's what gamers call the first Xbox.

Phil: Oh no, that was just called the Xbox, that wasn't called the Xbox One.

Phil: No, trust me, gamers call it the Xbox One.

Tom: Yeah, there might be a few corporate-related suicides on the way.

Phil: Something that I haven't heard anywhere else about this is that this has a custom processor, right?

Tom: Yep, I believe so.

Phil: Compared to what Sony is using, Sony is using an off-the-shelf processor and Microsoft is using a custom processor.

Tom: Which by the way is architecturally a generation ahead of current computer processors.

Phil: Yeah, of course it is.

Phil: That's why everyone is not using it in high-end gaming.

Tom: Mark Rain even confirmed this, but he also confirmed that despite being architecturally a generation ahead of modern computer hardware, performance-wise it is behind.

Phil: Okay, the other thing is that it has GB of DDRand is it like GB of that is being carved off for the operating system?

Phil: Yeah, it's being carved off for the operating system.

Tom: One of which is Windows

Phil: Right.

Phil: Let's not talk about that yet.

Phil: So that leaves GB for games.

Phil: So, my point is Sony is using better RAM with GB available for developers.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Basically, if there is GB there, use it as you want.

Tom: No, they have got GB reserved for the OS, so GB.

Phil: Right, I'm sorry.

Phil: Still pretty good considering that it is a closed system and once you start a game, that's all that's really going on.

Phil: So, and it's better RAM as well, right?

Phil: I don't want to turn this into a Sony Microsoft thing.

Phil: I really don't, but I've got to wonder if the off-the-shelf processor and the higher level of RAM will flip the tables in terms of the lead development skew.

Phil: So this generation, it was much easier to develop on the Xbox and then port to the PlayStation and I'm wondering if because they're using a standard processor with more RAM, this means that the PlayStation will be the lead development skew.

Tom: I honestly don't think the RAM will have much effect on that because even the GB will be bytes of RAM allocated to Microsoft, even though it's at a lower speed, seems perfectly adequate enough pending how bloated the operating systems, given that they're using Windows and other Microsoft developed operating systems end up being.

Tom: But the fact that they're using a unique processor that is very worrying considering what happened with the cell and that Sony has deliberately gone away from that due to how much of an utter disaster that was.

Phil: Right, exactly.

Phil: And that's what I'm really wondering about is more the processor because it is a generic type thing will be easy to approach for.

Phil: Now in defense of Mark Raine, right?

Phil: Believe it or not, this blew my mind.

Phil: The PlayStation has megabytes of RAM.

Tom: Yeah, you didn't know this?

Phil: Well, I knew it, but it's just, you know, and then half of that is for graphics.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So megabytes are for graphics, and then the other are dedicated to, you know, the operating system and just keeping the thing running, which is the big problem that people have had with it besides the cell processor.

Phil: And I look at a game like Resistance and I'm like, okay, they're doing this with megabytes of RAM.

Phil: And that's where I think Mark Raine is a little bit, you know, he is actually a career wreck.

Phil: That when you do have a closed system, you are able to, even though it's lower specs than the PC, you are able to deliver a pretty high level of performance because it is a closed dedicated console.

Tom: Yeah, but what he was saying about Microsoft was the opposite of that.

Tom: That the processor might be architecturally ahead of current PC CPUs, but the performance is actually worse.

Tom: So that would be the opposite effect.

Phil: The thing is this right, before this conference, no one had even suspected that they were going to call it the Xbox One, so they were able to keep that under wraps, but then once the things launched, it's like, hey, everyone, just say whatever the fuck you want.

Phil: They said, there's no always online, right?

Phil: So Adam Orth said, deal with it.

Phil: And then they come out and they say, no always online, except there is, but you do have to be online because we're going to be checking in with you once a day, according to Phil Harrison.

Tom: Which is just ridiculous.

Tom: That is, for people that live in an area where always online is going to be an issue, that is going to be an issue because you don't know when your internet is going to go out.

Tom: So you've effectively got to be logging in quite regularly, which is going to be a pain for people that don't want to log in regularly and also you don't know when internet is going to die.

Tom: Okay, so you might be going along, okay, I've got five hours left, right, so I don't need to log in and I'll be playing a game and you know, a few hours time, a few hours comes along, internet out for six hours and then you can't play for a few hours, so.

Phil: Remember the PSapocalypse?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: There's two things about this.

Phil: Number one is this underscores the group think mentality and you hear this on the gaming podcast all the time where the guys are usually broadcasting from the Bay Area and San Francisco and you're like, oh, just deal with it, people will get the internet.

Phil: And it's like, okay, not everyone lives in one of the largest urban areas in the most, you know, the richest countries in the world.

Phil: So that goes beyond saying.

Phil: The second thing is this means that Microsoft servers can never go down.

Tom: Pretty much.

Tom: Can you think of any occasions where they did go down similar to the PlayStation apocalypse?

Phil: Of course.

Phil: It's happened several times.

Tom: There we go.

Tom: Well, as we mentioned previously there, cloud servers are going to be more powerful than the entire computing power of

Tom: So clearly that's not going to be a problem.

Phil: Don't even get me started on that.

Phil: You do have to be online all the time.

Phil: Now the third problem with this is, I'm a collector.

Phil: What do you think my problem with this is?

Tom: Well, what's going to happen when they shut it down?

Phil: And they will.

Tom: So you don't think they're going to release a patch allowing the console to be played offline?

Phil: Gandy would.

Phil: Mother Teresa would.

Phil: Martin Luther King would.

Tom: The other issue with that is though, not just that people don't really have one, but if in or years' time you want to buy an Xbox, how are you going to download the firmware update even if they released one?

Phil: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Phil: And everyone is like, oh, Microsoft didn't ever go away.

Phil: Plenty of companies have gone away.

Phil: People said that about Sears Roebuck.

Phil: There are plenty of huge massive companies that go away.

Phil: And this stuff is too important.

Phil: God bless the pirates and the hackers.

Phil: They'll keep it alive somehow, I hope, but they'll probably only keep the good games alive.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And there's not a consensus as to what the good games are.

Tom: There is a consensus, but it's wrong.

Phil: I mean, four years ago, if I told you that THQ was going to go bankrupt and that all of their assets would be sold off.

Tom: And that the Vandy would be desperately trying to sell Activision.

Phil: Another problem is the no sharing of games.

Phil: So basically, just the shorthand is they're introducing PC DRM to the console space.

Tom: Well, it's worse than PC DRM because depending on the game, you generally at least got a few installs, which is bad enough in itself, but you're then still somewhat able to share the game with friends.

Tom: And that said, there are a lot of games that limit you to one install, but yeah.

Tom: So it's basically the most extreme and worst DRM on PC on every single game on the console.

Phil: So, Polygon says that the Xbox One will require a periodic internet check to authenticate games.

Phil: Sources within Microsoft has told Polygon, it's also said the console will not require a fee to play used games as previously reported, or as Phil Harrison, like the king of Microsoft Europe has said, that it would require a fee.

Phil: According to the site, Microsoft is still debating the issue internally.

Tom: So, if they're still debating the issue internally, why have they commented on it?

Phil: Exactly.

Tom: This is the thing that blows my mind about this is half of this stuff that has been announced so comes across as all these random, just completely stupid ideas that get thrown about when you're initially R&D-ing a product, right?

Tom: So, all the crazy ideas, you're going to shop everything around that's possible and you're slowly going to whittle away at it until you come up with a product that's got a good amount of solid ideas.

Tom: The solid ideas that they've come up with that have been announced at least come across as these stupidest stuff that anyone could have suggested that would have been got rid of eventually.

Tom: And my question is did they not actually do due process to get rid of these ideas or did they have even worse ideas to begin with?

Phil: You are correct on the latter part.

Phil: They had worse ideas than what we're currently speculating and they were asked this question and then they were like, oh, this is the reaction we're getting?

Tom: Who could have seen that coming?

Phil: Yeah, and now they're like, oh, we're still talking about this guys.

Phil: It's cool.

Phil: It's cool.

Phil: You know, we don't really have a lady in our trunk, you know.

Phil: And now they're like trying to figure out how to get this lady out of the trunk, right?

Phil: Without anyone noticing.

Tom: The other thing this comes across as to me is Microsoft in general, as we all know, is somewhat on a downward trend.

Tom: And their reaction to this has...

Phil: Well, in what way?

Phil: You mean with PC sales and stuff like that?

Tom: Their reaction to this has generally been one that has been pretty stupid.

Tom: I mean, Windows for example, what does it do?

Tom: They're clearly attempting to get into the hand-held market, right?

Tom: But they've applied this to their home software as well.

Tom: Their general reaction to new technologies has, in my interpretation, any of it, been one that is completely out of touch with what people want.

Tom: And this comes across as the same issues with their ability to adapt to the modern market applied to gaming as well.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, I'm going to go outside the box here, because everyone's heard me rail against Microsoft up to this point.

Phil: Let me say this in defense of Microsoft, because actually, outside of this conference, I am pretty much in the Microsoft camp.

Phil: Microsoft with Windows was able to basically perfect the desktop operating system environment, and no one cared, right?

Phil: The bottom line is that with PC sales declining, they're not declining because of Windows

Phil: They're declining because people don't want to be sitting down at a desk to engage with the Internet, and that's what people use computers for.

Phil: That's why you've seen the rise of smartphones and tablets.

Tom: What I'm saying is, I don't think...

Tom: Well, I didn't certainly say this, but as far as I'm aware, if you've got a choice between getting a Windows tablet and an Android or an Apple tablet, most people are going to go for them, are they not?

Phil: Most people are going to go for Apple because they're told that that's the simplest operating system and the easiest way to do things.

Tom: So I don't really see that Microsoft is wise to...

Tom: But of course, they really got to because they have to.

Phil: That's what they do.

Tom: They have to and this is of course their first teething, first OS of this nature.

Tom: So the issues with it can be excused, but at this stage, it doesn't appear to me that they've quite got how to market it.

Tom: I mean, most of the Windows ads that you see on television or that I've seen anyway come across more as ads for a laptop as opposed to an ad for an iPad, which are advertised basically as Apple's advertised phones and the same applies to Android devices as well.

Phil: Well, what Microsoft is doing is saying you don't have to compromise your computing experience by using a tablet.

Tom: But the thing is...

Phil: It can be a tablet when you want it to be.

Phil: It can be a laptop when you want it to be.

Tom: Yes, but how many people are going to actually attach themselves to that idea?

Tom: I don't think...

Phil: No one.

Tom: Yes, that's my point.

Tom: No one when they're using an iPad or whatever are going to be thinking, I wish I could be doing the things that Windows offers me.

Phil: No, you're right.

Phil: It's a compromise.

Phil: Basically, what they're offering is the middle.

Phil: On the mobile market, they're offering the middle.

Phil: You can have a computing experience, you can have a tabling experience.

Phil: No one's interested in that.

Phil: What they've done on the desktop is because they're so desperate to push this paradigm to people, is they've basically said, when you buy a new Ford Falcon, we're going to include this POGO stick.

Phil: Except you have to use the POGO stick to get into the Ford Falcon.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Now, the Windows is...

Tom: The cloud's power choice.

Phil: The desktop experience of Windows is superior to Windows in many, many ways.

Phil: But they've put this POGO stick in between you and getting to that Windows experience, which I'm happy to say you can get around quite easily.

Phil: But I just want to give Kudos to Microsoft.

Phil: At least they've spotted that things are changing and they're trying to react to them.

Phil: So I'm coming off as a Microsoft hater as it relates to this conference, but in terms of the overall picture, they understand that things are changing and that they need to change with them.

Phil: Whether or not they're making the right changes is questionable.

Phil: So back to the gaming side of things, no backward compatibility.

Tom: Well, that's to be expected, sadly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I didn't know if you were ready to accept that.

Phil: I've been saying this for years that they'll never do backward compatibility.

Tom: Well, I'm not going to accept it, but I know what's going to happen.

Tom: I mean, the chances of me, as you know, my PlayStation broke recently and with that in mind, if there was backwards compatibility on the PlayStation they probably would have had a new PlayStation owner sooner than they might necessarily have had one.

Tom: But given that it doesn't have backwards compatibility, what is the point?

Tom: At least getting it anywhere near launch because the PlayStation library is already extremely good and I don't have much invested in downloadable titles.

Tom: I've got probably about or so review copies that I accumulated over the years, but the fact that I can't play them on the PSand the only way for me to play them is off my PlayStation 's hard drive puts me off it even more than if it was just physical games.

Phil: I told you guys, I told you, I told you right from the beginning of this, I was like, I'm not going to invest in these digital downloads on a console that is going to be bricked.

Phil: Guaranteed, this console will break and not be transferable to the next generation.

Phil: And I've always said, I'm not going to buy these games until someone gives me a roadmap of how these things are going to transition.

Phil: And sure enough, Microsoft and Sony have both said, well, hey, hope you enjoyed them while you had them because now they're stuck on that console forever.

Tom: And I couldn't agree more, which is exactly why I did not buy any.

Phil: No, and I didn't either.

Tom: So we're both ahead of the times.

Phil: Backward compatibility though, here's my concern, again, speaking as a collector, speaking as someone, I beat like games last year, probably more than more than of them, I'll say, were from prior generations.

Phil: Like I like to go back and play new games that I haven't played before.

Phil: And when someone says no backward compatibility, that basically means I have to go out and buy another copy of the existing console to put in a cupboard like I did with the PSONE because I didn't know whether or not they were going to be supporting backward compatibility moving forward.

Phil: And I don't want to leave hundreds of games in the past that you'll have no access to or having to buy resale units on eBay and just basically playing Russian roulette with knowing how reliable they are and all the rest of it.

Phil: So let's give praise to Nintendo here because for the last few generations, they have at least supported backwards compatibility by one generation.

Tom: Which is certainly better than nothing.

Tom: And as I said on the PSfocused podcast we did a while ago, my only hope is that given the move towards PC architecture that there's going to be some way for continuity between consoles so that there will be more openness to backwards compatibility in the future.

Phil: Microsoft with the original Xbox to the Xbox had to do software emulation because they dropped the NVIDIA graphics card, right?

Phil: This time around they have no excuse and they didn't do backwards compatibility.

Tom: Well, the excuse would be the CPU, would it not?

Phil: Yeah, perhaps.

Phil: Other hardware details, it has a GB hard drive.

Tom: Which is tiny.

Phil: It is tiny, so it's not just me.

Tom: Can you use external hard drives with it?

Phil: Yeah, it has a USB out, so that's good, but it is not consumer replaceable.

Phil: So you can't open it up.

Phil: It has a proprietary...

Phil: something is proprietary about it.

Phil: You can't just go to the shop and buy a TB drive and throw it in.

Tom: For a console that has mandatory installation, that is just absolutely unacceptable that they only give you GB.

Tom: Because even if it's USB there are going to be people that will be complaining about latency playing from an external hard drive, no doubt.

Phil: Well, look, I don't want to have to go over to Harvey Norman or Best Buy or whatever and buy another hard drive and shove it into this thing on my entertainment system.

Phil: And the thing is, this thing will be a DVR.

Phil: They haven't announced it yet, but it will be a DVR.

Phil: GB is tiny.

Tom: If you're recording HD content, and the thing is with most of these things, they're of course recording it with no compression whatsoever.

Tom: So the files are absolutely huge.

Tom: There is no way you can seriously use this to be playing your GB games, while also using up GB to record your football match.

Phil: Two points.

Phil: I recorded a baseball game the other day, GB.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: GB.

Phil: Because I was like, oh, I'll put this on a USB stick and I'll watch it on the computer.

Phil: I don't have a GB USB stick.

Phil: I looked at my Steam library on my computer.

Phil: Now, I have a new computer.

Phil: It's like less than months old, right?

Phil: Less than months.

Phil: In less than months, my Steam library is currently at GB.

Phil: GB.

Phil: That's for games.

Phil: And this includes some pretty small games like Geometry Wars and Ys and and stacking and stuff like that.

Phil: I'm at GB in months.

Phil: GB is fucking pathetic.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And game installs are mandatory?

Tom: I don't even...

Tom: How is that even possible?

Tom: Yeah, of course.

Phil: DRI.

Tom: But I mean, it adds absolutely nothing.

Tom: I mean, people are going to say that, of course, you're going to get faster load times.

Tom: Well, we're not actually going to be able to prove that that is the case.

Tom: Although it's logically going to be the case.

Tom: We can't actually prove that that is the case.

Tom: For all we know, the disk drive might be fast enough to get faster speeds than playing it directly off the hard drive.

Phil: And again, I just played Resistance on a system I bought in that has megabytes of RAM, megabytes of RAM playable with a gigabyte hard drive, and there were no load times.

Phil: And it looked fucking fantastic.

Tom: And that's the other thing.

Tom: Unless you've got something as badly optimized as Gran Turismo the amount of time you spend installing something, and this may not apply to Xbox games, but this is perfectly applicable to the PlayStation the ridiculous amount of times that the games take to install, you're not necessarily going to be saving, even in the long term, a great amount of time just by cutting off a few seconds off the loading screen.

Tom: So even if we do get faster loading, it's not necessarily time saved overall.

Phil: Absolutely not.

Phil: I mean, install like Metal Gear Solid on the PlayStation you know, lose three hours, you know.

Phil: So, okay, we've been really negative, so let's just stay for a second.

Phil: I don't want to put you on the spot, but I mean, I love video games.

Phil: I was playing one earlier today, having a hell of a time with it.

Phil: I mean, what do you love about video games?

Phil: What is it that brings you back to this hobby, time and time again?

Tom: Well, look, even with something as just...

Tom: This is literally the worst...

Tom: I would say it's not just the worst console name.

Tom: It is the worst console ever created, and we'll go into my reasons for that in a minute.

Tom: But even with how bad this console is, this has been possibly the most enjoyable console announcement in a very long time.

Tom: I mean, the amount...

Tom: the way that the gaming community reacts to negative things is so enjoyable.

Tom: Of course, you get just pain in the arse things like the Mass Effect controversy, where everyone was just being a complete and utter dickhead.

Phil: Dickhead.

Phil: Did we just say dickhead at the start?

Phil: Yes, we did.

Tom: But then you get something like this, which is just...

Tom: If you're a game fan, this is the worst thing in the world.

Tom: This is someone announcing, we're doing what you should be looking forward to the most in the world, and we're making it the worst possible thing you could come up with.

Tom: And instead of just complaining about this, people's reaction is to make a million hilarious gifs and just have a great fun time making what is the worst thing in the world the most hilarious and enjoyable thing in the world.

Phil: Do you love kittens?

Phil: Because we've come up with a machine to kill kittens.

Tom: And then they've got a million amusing kitten gifs devoted to it.

Phil: Well, this is supposed to be a positivity minute, but that didn't work.

Tom: Well, that was my positive minute.

Tom: I'm saying one of the reasons I love gaming is even when faced with something like this, everyone reacts with good humor and fun.

Tom: Most of the time, but not always.

Phil: I think there's a lot of wrist slashing as well.

Tom: Well, that's enjoyable from the outside of looking in as well, because at the end of the day, we are devoting a huge amount of time to something which is rather pointless, as well as being effortlessly enjoyable and important.

Tom: So when people react in a completely preposterous and over-the-top manner and melodramatic, it is also enjoyable.

Tom: But go on.

Phil: Yeah, but at the same time, if this goes on, it's going to kill our industry.

Phil: But you know what?

Phil: There's always the PCs.

Phil: If everything else fails, there are enough people who are only able to make games, to make money, that will fall back to the easiest distribution method possible, which will be video games.

Phil: On your PC, rather.

Tom: And the PC also has, which is rarely mentioned, because one, it's blatantly obvious, and two, what everyone likes to talk about the PC is how technically superior it is to everything, but PC is unquestionably the greatest way to experience backwards compatibility.

Phil: Well, I mean, the thing is about the PC also is that it's open.

Phil: I mean, and all these systems are closed, and that's why they're, you know, kind of, they're really hurting themselves by being closed, and I really think we need an open and, you know, console system.

Phil: And basically, the consoles compete on their hardware, and people say, okay, this game is for the console, this game is for the PC, and you bring out, you know, Uncharted and you can play it on an Xbox, but basically, you pick the hardware that you want to play it on.

Phil: Now, I know that probably the economics don't work on that, but as long as we're in this Betamax, VHS, Blu-ray, HD, DVD fight, you know, gaming is going to be a niche hobby.

Phil: So let's continue with the negative stuff, and then we'll end on the positive stuff.

Phil: Connect is mandatory.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, I mean, that's not in any way surprising.

Tom: And the other thing about this is, this is not necessarily a bad thing, just in theory.

Tom: In practice, this isn't going to be the case, but in theory, this is not a bad thing, because it's going to result in people focusing on using Connect, right?

Tom: I mean, the most, without a doubt, the most disappointing thing to me about the Wii U so far is how many games are using Wii Remotes, because I know this is not going to be popular with anyone, but I was one of the few people who absolutely loved the motion controls in the Wii.

Tom: And you can develop your game for the Wii U, and you can have it as a first-person shooter using the Wii Remote, right?

Tom: The only game doing that is Call of Duty that I can think of.

Tom: And this is going to be...

Tom: The vast majority of games are not going to do that.

Tom: So if you include Kinect as standard, there's in theory going to be more games that are going to include Kinect.

Phil: Right off the bat, I can think of five games.

Phil: Okay, back to the Wii, right?

Phil: There were five games that used the Wii Mode perfectly.

Phil: Little King's Story, Dead Space Extraction, Super Mario Galaxy.

Phil: There was a Call of Duty game, Condu.

Phil: I mean, when the Wii U controller was used properly, and one, two, three, four of those five games were from third parties, okay, when used properly, it totally immersed you into the game and made you forget that you were holding a controller.

Phil: And so by including the Kinect as a default, it opens up the possib...

Phil: and making a Kinect that actually works.

Phil: So I guess this Kinect for the Xbox One, by making a Kinect that actually works, then developers can use it.

Phil: And I would be excited for that if I were buying an Xbox One.

Tom: Yeah, but the only issue is that can anyone think of a single Kinect game that would use Kinect well?

Tom: Because even with The Move being released on PSas a standalone thing, so there's few games that use Move.

Tom: Some of the games that do use Move do use it well, but I cannot think of a single example of a game that uses Kinect particularly well.

Tom: Well, apart from just Dance, maybe.

Phil: Dance Central, Dance Central, right.

Phil: I mean, but Kinect didn't work.

Phil: I mean, it simply did not work.

Phil: So with it coming out now with a version of it that presumably does work extremely well and from all demonstrations, it appears to work remarkably, there does seem to be a chance there that regular games would be able to incorporate it.

Phil: Now, if I'm playing a game and I'm enjoying it and I'm playing a shooter like Halo and it tells me I've got to get up off the couch and wave at the screen, that would be disappointing.

Phil: But if done well, then it can completely add to the game.

Phil: Like throwing a grenade.

Phil: I mean, who wouldn't love that?

Tom: That would be awesome.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, it's something you do about, you know, once every five to seven minutes in a game.

Phil: Generally in a shooter, you're not throwing grenades a whole bunch.

Tom: Except online.

Tom: Grenade spam art.

Tom: That would be an interesting experience.

Phil: It would actually probably improve it because people would be less inclined to do it.

Tom: And that would actually be hilariously enjoyable.

Tom: Every now and then you just decide to spam sticky grenades in Halo Online and you've got to actually throw every single one of them.

Phil: People were saying that if you're using your Kinect, it will see you walk into the room, it will recognize your face and say, hey Tom, you want to play Call of Duty?

Phil: Right?

Phil: And people were wondering if this was the way perhaps, I heard someone speculate that if I had a cut out of your face and I put it over mine, like if I had a picture of your, yeah, could I get around the DRM?

Tom: That's a good question.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Yeah, because I'd be like, no, of course I'm Tom Towers.

Tom: You have to put on the voice as well.

Phil: But the connect is, I can't do a Tom Towers voice, regrettably.

Phil: I'm too manly and my voice is too deep.

Tom: That's a shame.

Phil: That is a shame.

Phil: So, but you know, what they were showing, if true, is great.

Phil: I mean, they're saying like, oh, we'll be able to pick up, pick up detections and changes in your face color that the human eye can't pick up.

Phil: It reads your heart rate and all the rest of it.

Phil: I mean, this really does sound like the current Kinect on steroids.

Phil: It sounds like a really amazing piece of hardware that I would be really interested in.

Phil: But it's completely pointless for video games.

Phil: Well, it may or may not be.

Phil: We don't know what the implementation is and the very fact that they're packing it in means that this will be relevant because every developer now is going to want to utilize it as a value-add bullet point on the back of the game.

Phil: So I'm sick of talking, so what other negative stuff did they come up with?

Tom: Well, the thing that worries me, although I just like the most about this, is not the DRM and it is in fact related to the Kinect.

Tom: Now, obviously, this is not actually going to be utilized beyond stuff such as DRM, but there are rumors around that it's going to be counting the number of people in the room.

Tom: So if you buy a film that is licensed to be viewed by four people, if you've got five people in there, Kinect is going to say, no, you can't, what's this?

Tom: You have to buy license for five people, right?

Phil: There's no way that's going to happen.

Tom: No, but here's the thing.

Tom: It's not going to happen.

Tom: The DRM stuff is just going to be related to installing a game and having it to have it check in and all that sort of rubbish.

Tom: Now, the thing is this technology is eventually going to come around and stuff like Kinect is the forebearer of it and things like Google Classes, right, if you're familiar with those.

Tom: And this is not a world that I like and this is not some sort of conspiracy theorist thing.

Tom: At the end of the day, it's...

Tom: No, if you let me finish.

Tom: At the end of the day, it's basically going to be...

Tom: It's not going to change society in any meaningful way, okay?

Tom: But it is just an annoyance.

Tom: I've not got on to any social media things because I don't need to be talking to or have people be aware of me in some way -hours a day, right?

Phil: No, I agree with where you're coming from entirely.

Phil: I mean, I am against Google Glass.

Phil: I'm against Kinect.

Phil: I'm against social media.

Phil: It's just intrusive and it's unnecessary.

Tom: So at the end of the day, that is the thing that I dislike the most, more than GameGRM and stuff like that.

Tom: If you make a product that, even if it doesn't necessarily utilize it to do all that much, I'm not going to buy it because I have no interest in contributing to the rise of this technology, even though it is inevitable.

Tom: Me not buying it makes absolutely no difference.

Tom: Me not taking part in it makes no difference, but I have my principles, so I'm not going to be involved in that world.

Tom: And here's the other thing about this thing, this thing is, so eventually we're going to have Kinect, which not only due to its ability to monitor your heartbeat applies this to games.

Tom: It's going to be attempting to diagnose if you're having a heart attack, right?

Phil: Right.

Tom: This is going to make the game effectively unplayable for me, because as long as well as my various heart attack symptoms that I will be displaying on and off while playing, I'll also be currently experiencing a stroke along a myriad of other things.

Tom: And if you're going to have this sort of cross-platform devices, which you are, just because it's a Kinect doesn't mean it's going to be also using this, as well as the heart pace monitor you're using, which due to being a medical device can be programmed so that it doesn't recognise that you're having a heart attack or a stroke despite showing off the symptoms, every time it's going to automatically call the ambulance and I'm going to have to manually stop that.

Phil: Cancel it.

Phil: Well, my concern is, because I'm so healthy and hale, is that it might detect that I'm healthy and then call Pizza Hut or Domino's.

Tom: And just to lower your level to the average standard.

Phil: To the average standard, right.

Phil: Well, of course, none of this stuff is actually going to happen.

Phil: I mean, this is all crazy talk.

Phil: Well, it's just not going to happen, but I just don't like having the Kinect voice to dummy.

Phil: I don't like having a camera in my living room be mandatory.

Phil: And if I did buy this, and we'll get to this at the end of this, I mean, I just get a piece of black electrical tape and put it over it.

Phil: Or actually, I just drop the Kinect behind the TV, because I'm never going to use it.

Phil: And if a game comes up like Little King's Story or Extraction or Super Mario Galaxy that actually uses it to its benefit, then I'll drag it out and I'll put it up on top of the TV.

Phil: But this is just a gimmick.

Phil: It is a gimmick.

Phil: I'm sorry, it's a gimmick.

Phil: And old headsets are not compatible.

Phil: This isn't surprising at all.

Phil: I wish it would support headsets, and I'm hoping that Mad Cats comes out with something, because I hate the idea of a speaker phone in my living room.

Tom: That's another ridiculous thing, that it does not support old generational headsets.

Tom: It's not as if people are just buying a crappy $headset.

Tom: People will have expensive Turtle Beach headsets and the like, so that they can still experience a full level of sound quality while playing their game.

Tom: And so now they're effectively going to put out a reasonable amount of money, just because it's a new generation.

Phil: And then we experimented with this, with their Hopeless Conference phone thing for Animal Crossing.

Phil: It just doesn't work.

Phil: It just doesn't work.

Phil: The living room is a shared space, and you don't want to be having a conversation with your friends over speakerphone while playing a game, if your wife's in there playing on a handheld or knitting or cooking or whatever they do.

Tom: And while this is an issue just with headsets, as anyone who has played online knows, when someone has a baby crying in the background or some conversation in the background or whatever else that is not solved by having a headset.

Phil: So let's move on to the positives, okay?

Phil: Old...

Phil: I like the design of the hardware.

Phil: I like the boxiness of it.

Phil: I think it underscores the name of the system.

Phil: And I like it.

Phil: It's simple.

Phil: It's boxy.

Phil: You put it in there.

Phil: It's just a generic thing.

Phil: It doesn't have to look like a toy.

Phil: It doesn't have to look like the Nor the PlayStation or the Xbox

Phil: It's just an electronic component that you slot in with everything else.

Phil: I don't like the two-tone spat design.

Phil: That is...

Phil: I mean, horrible.

Phil: Absolutely horrible.

Phil: The gray and black...

Tom: Yeah, it looks hideous.

Tom: The thing I don't like about it is it looks far too much plastic.

Tom: If you have a device that is that huge, you have got to make it out of very obvious metal.

Phil: Brushed aluminum.

Tom: It looks like a stereo receiver or a stereo component.

Tom: You cannot have those things look good in plastic.

Tom: That has got to be a very metal-based design.

Tom: You're right.

Tom: I like the design of it in terms of space, but it just destroys its whole look by looking very plastic to me.

Phil: If you're going to spend $or $on a stereo component, you don't want it to be looking like it's plastic.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah, I get that, but also I get the reality of them having to sell these things at a loss, and most stereo components are sold at a tremendous profit, because they don't have RAM and all the rest of this stuff.

Tom: And also because they're a niche thing, so they need to make a huge amount of money on these small amount of things they're selling.

Phil: But at the same time, for a gaming console, I like the fact that it's an Xbox and it looks like a fucking box.

Phil: The two-tone thing is ridiculous.

Phil: It just looks fucking stupid.

Phil: Stupid, stupid.

Phil: It looks stupid.

Tom: And the bezel is incredibly ugly as well.

Phil: Oh, terrible.

Phil: Okay, so finally...

Tom: Just one last thing on the look is, you have to give Microsoft huge respect for going for this look because PSthey leaked just before this was announced, some hints as to what it's going to look like, the console, and they're going down.

Tom: This looks like a router that was started by the Wii and continued by the Wii U and is going to be continued by the PSso they get huge props from me for going in a different direction.

Phil: No, I disagree.

Phil: From the PlayStation reveal, they had basically a blurry black box and they had some high-def shots as well.

Phil: And if you look at that, they're making it look like the Hal

Phil: It's got very sharp angles, it's got gills, it's got a little red light on it.

Phil: I think it has the potential to look like something very scary.

Tom: I don't know about that.

Tom: I think you need to look at more modems because a lot of modems have interesting designs.

Phil: Well, we'll see.

Phil: Beyond that, the one other thing I noticed about the hardware is they didn't screw with the console the controller that much.

Phil: But it has a...

Phil: for the first time ever in a non-Nintendo system, it has a cross pad.

Phil: It has a directional cross pad that is in the sign of a plus sign.

Phil: And no other system has ever had this because Nintendo has the patent on the cross or the plus sign as a directional pad.

Phil: And I know I'm blowing your mind right now, but if you go back and you look at the...

Phil: if you look at the Mega Drive, if you look at the Sega Master System, if you look at the if you look at the PlayStation, they've all been variations of a plus sign.

Tom: Yeah, the PlayStation has the middle cut out.

Phil: It has four distinct...

Phil: Like chevrons.

Phil: Yeah, four chevrons that are pointing toward each other.

Phil: So this is a very major question.

Phil: I mean, this is a copyright infringement.

Phil: Microsoft was overwhelmingly ridiculed for how bad their Direction from Crosspad was on the

Phil: They released one in the European markets that protruded basically for FIFA, which also was a bit of a failure.

Tom: Why would you be using a Z-Cad with FIFA, by the way?

Phil: I don't know, man.

Phil: That's bizarre.

Phil: That's what we were told.

Phil: That cannot be the reason.

Tom: That cannot be the reason.

Tom: No one plays FIFA with a D-Pad.

Tom: That's what these people ignorant of FIFA in America were told as an excuse for not releasing it over there.

Phil: It's what we were told.

Tom: That is so not true.

Phil: We were told we're not getting this better control load because it's for the Europeans who like FIFA.

Tom: That is so not true.

Tom: But continue.

Phil: I'm sorry.

Tom: What you were told, I believe you were told that.

Tom: I'm saying that is such an excuse.

Phil: Well, what about Pez?

Phil: Because we'd buy that too.

Tom: Well, Pez you could use with a D-pad because it is more, at the moment, arcade-y.

Tom: But with FIFA, with the modern FIFAs, you need the -degree control, which...

Phil: Right.

Phil: And in football games now, FIFA is still the reigning king, right?

Phil: Pez has gotten better, but it's still not...

Tom: It's still behind FIFA at the moment.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So basically, this is the biggest news that I haven't heard anywhere else.

Phil: This is exclusive Game Under Podcast stuff.

Phil: They're using and infringing Nintendo's copyright.

Phil: And this isn't the last you're going to see of it.

Phil: I think by the final design, I think maybe even by Eyou're going to see a change.

Phil: Because right now, they're using the NES crosspad.

Tom: Yeah, and it looks literally like it.

Phil: Yeah, and that's for both...

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah, just one thing on this is, the thing that worries me about this is, it is really easy to stuff up a D-pad if you have all four buttons connected.

Tom: So while this looks like an NES controller, so in theory, it's going to work a lot better than previous Xbox, D-pads, this has the potential to be equally as bad as the 's D-pad.

Phil: Well, the problem with Nintendo, too, is that ever since the Nthey keep, like on the GameCube and on the Wii, they keep shrinking the goddamn directional pad.

Phil: So, I mean, it's completely, my thumb can completely cover the directional pad twice over.

Tom: Yeah, so you're playing it as Braille, basically.

Phil: I could.

Phil: Big picture for me, and then we'll get the big picture from you.

Tom: Yeah, go on.

Phil: The conference was irrelevant.

Phil: Everything that came after was completely negative for Microsoft.

Phil: They could have, they should have kept their gap shut.

Phil: And at this point, there's nothing positive to differentiate them from their competition.

Phil: Only negative.

Tom: Big picture for me is, and you can correct me on this, given that you have in fact played more than just Android consoles.

Tom: This is literally, as they have described it currently, the worst console yet created.

Phil: You might have a point there, because I can still play all of the other consoles thus created.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: This one I wouldn't be able to, I would not be able to play it in years as it stands now.

Tom: And that's the point.

Tom: I mean, no matter how crap your console is, unless it has an issue where you turn it on, or sorry, you don't, you are unable to turn it on, it is a better console than this.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Tom: And that is the big picture to me.

Phil: And the big, big, big, big, big picture is that all this other stuff I can swallow and probably buy, I would probably buy an Xbox One.

Phil: Okay, who cares?

Phil: It has a stupid name.

Phil: I don't care.

Phil: If it has the games I want to play, I'm going to buy it.

Phil: This internet check-in stuff, I'm not going to buy it.

Phil: I mean, that is the ultimate deal-killer.

Tom: Same here.

Tom: And I've got a question for you though about it, just to end on.

Tom: As a extreme collector, would you be buying this some years down the track just to have it in your collection, not necessarily to use?

Phil: As a paperweight?

Tom: Will you eventually own this console regardless of whether you're going to use it?

Phil: At this point, I have not bought a Wii U.

Phil: And it's the first console I have not bought that has been released in the United States.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: There are two consoles that have been released in the United States that I have not bought.

Phil: And so not buying the Wii U was a major decision for me.

Tom: So if you're not getting a Wii U, then it's highly unlikely that you'll be getting this.

Phil: Right.

Phil: I'm almost tempted to buy a Wii U now, even though I think it's not going to give me anything on a gaming front.

Tom: I think it's too early to tell with that as well.

Phil: Yeah, because it's really only been released for a very short period of time.

Phil: So I can see myself getting a Wii U.

Phil: I can obviously see myself getting a PlayStation because I love the Sony franchises.

Phil: But it's quite possible that I might never own a Microsoft Xbox One if they keep this internet check-in policy.

Phil: I don't think they're actually serious about the Australian market anyway because I just don't see them seeing us as a major thing.

Phil: No one does.

Tom: What company does see us as a major market?

Phil: No one, really.

Phil: I was going to say PC, but that's a lie.

Phil: Okay, so let's move on.

Phil: That's enough about the Xbox.

Phil: Game impressions, do you want to go first?

Phil: We've got some final thoughts on a few games and some first impressions.

Tom: And so one of the games this week that I've been playing is Malicious.

Tom: And it's only about two hours long in terms of how long it might take you to finish.

Tom: The actual game time involved is, according to my clear time, only minutes, and I'm not sure how that worked out because there's no way I spent an hour's time dying and continuing, but I did easily spend an hour's time in total.

Tom: So I have no idea how that works out.

Tom: But this is a Japanese beat-about that was released on PSN and recently released on PSN Plus for free.

Tom: Now, the most notable thing about it is that it doesn't have a damage meter.

Tom: How it shows your damage is by lopping off your character's limbs.

Tom: So if you're about to die, you've got no arms and no legs, which is a pretty cool effect.

Tom: The problem with it is, at first, because it is visually a pretty chaotic game.

Tom: There's many, many enemies all around the place that you've got to be dealing with while you're taking on humongous bosses or bosses with very visually impressive and sensory overloady sort of moves.

Tom: So at first, you basically have no idea how much health you have.

Tom: And it gives you very little instruction.

Tom: So when I first started out playing the game, I had no idea that I could heal myself.

Tom: So on the first boss, I died and had to waste one of the three continues.

Tom: You're given by default.

Tom: And foolishly, with this in mind, followed Arnie of podcast fame's advice, which was to play on easy.

Tom: And this resulted in, except for the first boss, which is hard because to begin with, and this is a really big flaw in the game, you're without many combos and any weapons.

Tom: So you've just got like a basic attack, which makes killing a boss incredibly boring.

Phil: Well, this game, I mean, it also came out on Vita, and that's when I was like considering getting it.

Phil: But basically, you said like this game is two hours long.

Tom: It's based around, of course, running through it in an arcade style multiple times and trying to get better ratings.

Phil: Yeah, but it drops you, you said you were fighting a boss, but doesn't it drop you, from what I've read, doesn't it drop you just basically into a boss battle?

Tom: No, it drops you into an area where you can pick between which boss battle to fight.

Tom: So you're in like this white tranquil area.

Tom: You move over to a bit of a landscape, and this is a pretty cool visual effect.

Tom: You select that bit of the landscape, and the white fades away, and in place of the white appears the landscape growing from the small bit of the landscape that you've selected, which is a really excellent visual effect.

Phil: So it's kind of a, I mean, like what I'm envisioning is like an arena type game.

Phil: Like in the Star Ocean or Yakuza, you're basically in an arena type thing, and you get to pick which guys are going to die.

Tom: That's right, and you could do it in any order, and the thing about it is the enemies are meant to get progressively worse, progressively harder.

Tom: And on Easy, I saw no evidence of this.

Tom: They seemed about the same level, and each boss battle was infinitely easier than the last because I had been given tools to make me more powerful, basically.

Tom: So they got progressively easier and easier until I came to the final boss, which made what was previously a rather lackluster experience.

Tom: And once again, we have to bear in mind that I was stupid enough to follow Arnie's advice to play it on Easy.

Phil: And play it on Easy, right.

Tom: Which was just sheer stupidity, because like I say, I didn't know how to heal.

Tom: So going into this, I thought, okay, I've used a continue on the first boss, on Normal.

Tom: I'm pretty much screwed.

Tom: But that happened without me realizing that I could heal myself.

Tom: So if I had known that I could heal myself, I would have started again.

Tom: But without knowing that, I'd already played a few levels.

Tom: And the battle system, it's just not that engaging, because yes, you can sort of pull together a few combos by switching different weapons, which results in different combos.

Tom: And there are different attacks from the enemy, from the bosses to counterattack, but the enemies themselves are just boring.

Tom: They all feel the same.

Tom: Their bosses, their attacks look different, but you don't really have to do anything different.

Tom: You've just got to dodge out of the way and whatnot.

Tom: So even on normal, it would have, as far as I can tell, and you can't take this as gospel, it would have been a reasonably lackluster experience.

Tom: But the final boss made the whole thing completely worth it.

Tom: Even on easy, it was nothing short of epic.

Tom: It took me like minutes, and there's a -minute time limit.

Tom: So I was really pushing it.

Tom: And the reason it was so great was it had different stages.

Tom: The first stage, you've got to go around not even fighting the boss, but enabling these certain things which damage the boss so that it's then vulnerable.

Tom: And meanwhile, the boss's attacks change depending on what stage it's at.

Tom: So that was what, as far as I can see, the whole game should have been like.

Tom: And instead of making the challenge based on what weapons and stuff you've unlocked, it should have been giving you all of that to begin with and made the focus on making the boss as an interesting challenge to kill.

Tom: The only other interesting thing about this is the music is really excellent.

Tom: As you will tell from my reading of the short story, which is really, on the one hand, cool that they put in not just like a flash fiction, a fully fledged illustrated short story, which tells completely unnecessary backstory.

Tom: And it is absolutely atrocious, but it gets huge respect from me simply for the fact that it's there.

Phil: That they included it.

Phil: And that's the story here.

Phil: I mean, that's been the story with Sony and Indies for about the last three or four years, is that this is a game that is not going to make Sony any money.

Phil: I mean, they're basically being a patron of the arts with a lot of this kind of stuff.

Phil: So, overall, are you going to review this game, or just basically...?

Tom: That was just for my own leisure.

Tom: So that I could make just six games beaten in one month.

Phil: And would you say recommend it?

Phil: I mean, it's only two hours.

Tom: If you got it on PSN+, give it a play, because the other thing is it looks extremely good.

Tom: It's got its own sort of art style.

Tom: It looks a little like Valkyr Chronicles, but it mixes a more Western look into it, so it looks a lot more unique than just being a really well done anime look.

Tom: So if you got it for free on PSN+, go out and give it a try now, because you may really get into the combat and going through it on high difficulties to get a higher score and whatnot.

Tom: Buying it, if you're into this sort of game, because it does the presentation uniquely in an interesting way, I think maybe look into it.

Tom: But if you want a game that is really well designed, beat them up, combat, I would say look elsewhere.

Phil: Okay, so that was Malacious for the PlayStation and Vita.

Phil: As for what I was playing this week, just to give another final impression, Resistance I finished it up just toward the end of last week, actually.

Phil: This is actually, I am still debating it over in my mind, is possibly the best first-person shooter of this generation.

Phil: It went from, it is an arcade first-person shooter in the style of GoldenEye or Halo.

Phil: It borrows a lot from the Half-Life series, but toward the two-thirds mark, it really ramps up the Halo style.

Phil: There are levels which are directly ripped from Halo, but obviously presented in HD graphics and with modern pacing and sensibilities.

Phil: The game just gets better and better as you fill out the weapons wheel.

Phil: It's obviously an arcade game, and you have a full weapons wheel.

Phil: You do lean on your favorites and all the rest of it, but ultimately this is a game that never slows down, it has tremendous pacing.

Phil: The weapons more than anything are insanely satisfying as you would expect from an arcade game.

Tom: You do lean on your weapons.

Tom: That seems like a pretty good starting point to me, because it means that there's actually some difference between them.

Phil: Oh, very much so.

Phil: Like in terms of my way of shooting, in a game if I have a choice, it's basically Shotgun Sniper, as we'll get to when I talk about Tomb Raider, but they actually gave you reasons to mix up some of the weapons to purpose, so when you were facing certain implementations, you're like, okay, yeah, I can use that weapon.

Phil: So in the full weapons wheel, there are about probably four weapons that I never really touched.

Phil: These were usually elemental, the ones that I hate using, like electrical or ice or fire or stuff like that.

Phil: But overall, as I said, I can't really give it more higher praise than the fact that I am not a fan of the franchise whatsoever.

Phil: I didn't even play the second one.

Phil: But this was a game that I couldn't stop enjoying.

Phil: They just...

Phil: It's a relentless game in terms of the level of entertainment that it delivers.

Tom: So only you told me this before I bought Uncharted instead of it.

Phil: I'd probably still go with Uncharted

Phil: Actually, for you, I'd probably say play Resistance

Tom: Yeah, for me Resistance I would say.

Phil: Actually, I still don't know, because you might compare it negatively to Killzones.

Tom: That is true.

Tom: My fanboyism will come to the fore.

Phil: Yeah, but the thing that Insomniac knows, obviously from its Ratchet and Clank experience, is weapons, right?

Phil: It's not necessarily the level design, but they did get out of right, and that is the pacing and the weapons.

Tom: I mean, they pulled off making the action, Ratchet and Clank game that they made, the third-person shooter enjoyable.

Tom: So if they can take Ratchet and Clank and make an action game out of it, they're clearly very good at action games.

Phil: So again, I was expecting absolutely nothing going into this.

Phil: I had higher expectations for THQ's home front when I started it, and I came away possibly considering it to be the best first-person shooter of this generation.

Phil: So I absolutely loved it, and really I can't give higher praise than that.

Phil: So just a great game and I loved it.

Phil: So another game I've been playing, which is kind of strange for me, it came out this year, is Tomb Raider

Tom: Also known as Tomb Raider.

Phil: Also known as Tomb Raider, but we have to call it Tomb Raider otherwise how are you going to differentiate it from the Saturn or PlayStation One classic?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: I mean, this was a game that really helped along the PlayStation.

Phil: I mean, the PlayStation was basically, you know, different console manufacturers have, you know, done various things for the gaming industry, right?

Phil: And I think one of the things that the PlayStation did was bring gaming to the adult platform.

Phil: It basically said, okay, just because you're now at the legal age to drink doesn't mean you have to stop playing video games, which was a big thing when you think about it.

Phil: Because as gamers grew up, it was probably a pretty natural thing to go, okay, you know, it's now time to put the controller away.

Phil: Instead, spend your time going to movies and whatnot.

Phil: And PlayStation...

Tom: Wasting your lives, in other words.

Phil: Yeah, in other ways.

Phil: And PlayStation, when it launched, particularly in Europe and the Australian market, was more about, you know, going after that nightclub crowd.

Phil: And Tomb Raider was a big part of that.

Phil: And so, I've never been a fan of Tomb Raider.

Tom: Really?

Phil: Not really.

Phil: I mean, my first time...

Phil: I have Tomb Raider for the Saturn.

Phil: The first time I actually really played it was Tomb Raider Underworld for the Xbox.

Tom: That's not a great introduction.

Phil: Well, it's by Crystal Dynamics.

Phil: And this is when they were taking it over from Core.

Phil: From Tony Gard's original studio that invented the whole genre.

Phil: And I actually thought Underworld was a pretty decent game.

Phil: It was without heart, but it was a fairly decent game that had a lot going for it.

Phil: And I do appreciate Crystal Dynamics as a developer.

Phil: I mean, they're always producing solid work.

Tom: Except on the one, which was it, that everyone absolutely despised, Angel of Darkness.

Phil: Did they do that?

Phil: I don't know that they did Angel of Darkness.

Phil: I think that was the one that basically was where Eidos said, okay, Core, you're gone.

Phil: You're off this project.

Phil: There we go.

Tom: Yeah, that was...

Tom: Angel of Darkness was in fact developed by Core Design.

Phil: Yeah, and that was the final nail in the hop.

Tom: Yeah, that was the final straw.

Phil: That's actually the game that Hollywood blames the poor returns for the Angel of Jolie movie, that the game was so bad that it killed off interest for the movie.

Tom: How did they come to that conclusion?

Phil: Because they have to blame someone that's not themselves.

Tom: Yeah, except themselves.

Phil: So Crystal Dynamics at that point took it over, and they did a remake.

Phil: They did Tomb Raider Anniversary, which was a HD remake of the first game.

Phil: Completely new engine, the whole thing.

Phil: And then they did Underworld.

Phil: And when I played Underworld after having played Uncharted, it was just like, wow, I can totally see now why people thought Uncharted was ripping off Tomb Raider.

Phil: I mean, all the stuff that Tomb Raider does is a direct...

Phil: I mean, is being ripped off.

Phil: So when I came into this game, I was initially pumped for it.

Phil: Then I got the horribly misinterpreted, misogynistic marketing thing.

Phil: And I was like, okay, this game sounds really odd.

Phil: But I had heard enough about the gameplay that I was still interested in it.

Phil: And so when it came out, just as I was buying a gaming PC, so I was like, you know what?

Phil: I would be an idiot to buy this on the consoles as much as I'm interested in it, because I want to see this game at its optimal settings.

Tom: Also, thanks for my recommendation.

Phil: In large part, yeah.

Phil: But mostly not, because basically it was like, are you going to buy a game on a console and have it compromised, or are you going to buy it on a PC?

Tom: And also it's a new shiny PC as well.

Phil: Exactly, and I wanted to see what it was capable of.

Phil: So I got it last Wednesday, and I beat it essentially in a week.

Phil: This game is a...

Phil: I am a huge Uncharted proponent.

Phil: I think the Uncharted series through is a masterpiece.

Phil: I've beaten Uncharted twice, I've beaten Uncharted twice, and I've beaten Uncharted just once so far.

Phil: And I never go back and play games over and over.

Phil: I'm about notches on the gun barrel.

Phil: Of course.

Phil: I just want to beat games, move on.

Phil: And I've actually gone back to those games and replayed them.

Tom: Did you replay Uncharted as well, or just the first two?

Phil: I intend to play Uncharted again very soon.

Phil: I really want to go back and play it again.

Phil: This game, Tomb Raider, is a better game than Uncharted

Phil: I mean, it is a better game.

Phil: It's a better game than Uncharted and it's a better game than Uncharted

Tom: Okay, so it's better than Uncharted in general.

Phil: I would give Uncharted a

Phil: If I were someone who had my memory wiped and only had played Uncharted I'd probably give it a as well.

Phil: But, you know, there's a cumulative effect.

Tom: Yeah, of course.

Phil: I think this game is better than Uncharted or in terms of its game.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: They ran this whole time for the butt that I feel coming on.

Phil: Well, there's no...

Phil: The graphics are far superior on the PC.

Phil: This is an amazing looking game.

Phil: The audio is amazing.

Phil: The orchestral soundtrack plus the sound effects are incredible.

Phil: The traversal and controls are amazing.

Tom: They're even smooth with a keyboard.

Phil: You wouldn't know it.

Phil: I used the controller on PC.

Phil: The weapons are great.

Phil: I was just as satisfied with the shotgun in this game as I was in any game.

Phil: They had tremendous weight and presence.

Phil: And then on top of all of these things, they add gameplay elements.

Phil: The pacing was great.

Phil: You know how I'm a pacing whore?

Phil: The pacing was great.

Phil: So the graphics were great.

Phil: The video was great.

Phil: The sound was great.

Phil: The weapons were great.

Phil: The pacing was great.

Phil: The story was pretty good.

Phil: It basically evolves around you going to this Bermuda Triangle-like location where there's all these planes that have crashed and ships that have crashed.

Phil: And some of the people that have survived on this island are crazy and thinking that because they've survived there, they're the chosen ones and have brought into this crazy Japanese mythology.

Tom: Can I ask why you think they didn't just simply call it the Bermuda Triangle because they even went into the trouble of calling it some sort of square or something along those lines?

Phil: Right.

Phil: I think it was basically just because they wanted to set it in the Pacific region and play into the Japanese mythos, possibly because they're sucking up to their new owners, Square Enix, I mean, that is probably actually the real reason when you think about it, all joking aside, and maybe even to make it appeal to the Japanese audience.

Tom: Well, my other reasons for that might be, and I don't know if you've seen it, have you seen Lost?

Phil: I'm familiar with the mythos of Lost.

Tom: Okay, because the story is basically the whole time, let's put it kindly, it's a drawing on Lost, and one of the big things about Lost is, of course, the actual location while being similar to the Bermuda Triangle and whatnot is a completely original fictionalized location.

Tom: So one reason to continue along in the tradition of Lost, which they're basically copying throughout, could have simply been that they thought they had to come up with something of their own invention as well.

Phil: Right, slightly different, right.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: But I mean, the story is passable.

Phil: I mean, I don't play video games for story, God knows.

Tom: It's an enjoyable story.

Phil: Yeah, it is.

Phil: And they do have the thing where three quarters into the game, they introduce this trans...

Phil: I don't know quite the term for it.

Phil: I thought you were going to say transgender.

Phil: No, they introduce this otherworldly type character, which is what Resistance did.

Phil: It's what Uncharted does every time.

Phil: Basically, they introduce these samurai type characters.

Phil: And that's all fine.

Phil: So, I mean, it's a better made game than a game that I gave a tend to, right?

Phil: But you can sense some hesitation with this.

Tom: Yeah, as I said, there's clearly a but coming along.

Tom: Right.

Tom: And actually, hang on, I've got to ask, first of all, just one last thing on the story.

Tom: The payoff at the end, is that not just so hilarious?

Tom: After she's gone through all of this stuff, and yeah, it's not a spoiler.

Tom: It's not a spoiler.

Phil: Not a spoiler.

Tom: Vaguely a spoiler.

Phil: Somewhat of a spoiler.

Tom: So then at the end, after all of this, they're on the ship and they go up to her, oh my god, that was so hard, and she's writing in her thing where they're going on the next journey, and they say, so looking forward to going home, or something on these live shows, no, we're not going home!

Tom: That was hilarious.

Phil: You didn't think that was hilarious?

Phil: The problem that I have with this game is it has no soul.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: As opposed to the game you're about to talk about, right?

Phil: So the game you're about to talk about, Deadly Premonition, and we won't get into it right yet, is a less than perfect game.

Phil: It has horrible controls, horrible graphics, horrible sound, everything about it is horrible.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: But it has soul, and that is a ten game in my perspective.

Phil: I give that game a ten, and you're going to have to stick with it a little bit more before you get to it.

Phil: But this game has no soul.

Phil: And there was only a few human moments in this game.

Phil: So when her loser friends see her after a long period of time and they're in a cage elevated up above it, and you've been through hell and back, and you kill three enemies in front of them in a fairly routine manner, and they start hooping and hollering, and like, yeah, you kicked us, that's awesome.

Phil: And you're like, well, that was actually pretty routine.

Phil: I know for a normal person that would be pretty awesome, but for me that's pretty routine.

Phil: And that disconnect between your friends who have seen you as a normal person and as who you and as a player, you know who you have become, was really emotionally hard hitting because they're like cheering you for killing three enemies, and you're like, I killed like people at this point.

Phil: The other human moment that appear in the game is when you get a grenade launcher for the first time, and all these enemies up to this point have been like, oh, she's just a girl, take care of the young one.

Phil: There's only one of them, take care of the stranger.

Phil: And then at some point in the game, when you get the grenade launcher, they say, she's got a grenade launcher, let's run, get out of here, let's run.

Phil: And she says, that's right, run you bastards.

Phil: I'm going to kill every last one of you.

Phil: And it feels like it really hits you hard because at this point she's been bashed around and been through everything.

Phil: And when she takes ownership of that, after having first hesitated at killing a deer or her first human, she's like, yeah, that's right, you bastards, you run.

Tom: I don't know, I didn't buy that at all.

Tom: I thought that was so poorly done.

Phil: I bought it entirely.

Phil: And a lot of people say that this has been done poorly in terms of, oh, look at, you know, it takes an hour to kill a deer and then she's like, after two hours she's like mowing down hundreds of people.

Phil: But there's a radio call she makes back to the base where they say, how are you doing?

Phil: And she says, I had to kill someone.

Phil: And they say, oh, that couldn't have been easy.

Phil: And she says, the scary thing is how easy it was.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: And that's the point.

Phil: Whenever she's killing someone, it's always because she has to, because it's a kill or be killed situation.

Tom: Well, not entirely.

Tom: That depends on how you play.

Phil: Go on.

Tom: Well, presumably you didn't come across this.

Tom: You don't do the side quests, that sort of thing in games, right?

Phil: Mostly, if I can avoid it.

Tom: So you would have just played through the story.

Tom: But if you're backtracking, you're constantly killing people that you do not need to be killing.

Tom: If you're going back to areas that you visited to pick up items or not that you may have missed.

Phil: That every human you interact with in this game will kill you if you don't kill them.

Tom: Yeah, but you can easily go past them without killing them very easily.

Phil: Yeah, but how do you know they're not going to detect you?

Tom: Even if they do detect you, you can simply run off.

Phil: All I'm saying is that you have to assume that everyone in this game is a hostile.

Phil: And the fact that she didn't want to kill these people actually weighed through.

Phil: And the third human moment I found was when she was in the boat.

Phil: I mean, they have that Titanic moment.

Phil: She's at the front of the boat.

Phil: And they're like, well, I can't believe you got through that, Laro.

Phil: At least now we're getting home.

Phil: And she doesn't say, I'm not going home.

Phil: I mean, it's a very quiet moment.

Phil: She says, I'm not going home.

Tom: I don't know.

Tom: It wasn't to me.

Tom: To me, it was just as over the top as most of the story.

Tom: Or rather, most of the character depiction.

Phil: It is slightly over the top, as is all of the depictions of drama in this game, in any game, really.

Phil: In that she's basically saying, once you leave, you can't go home.

Phil: Once you've killed or people over the course of a -hour game, you can't really go home.

Phil: And this is a creation story.

Phil: This is explaining how she became who she is.

Phil: So, having said that, my biggest problem with the game is that this game has no soul.

Phil: She's somewhat strangely throughout the game alone, but always connected to her team.

Phil: So, she's always radioing back or having these cut scenes with the team and then going on by herself.

Phil: Whereas, in the Uncharted world, Nate says stuff to himself along the way, and it's funny.

Phil: There's humor there, so it has some soul.

Phil: This game is completely humorless.

Phil: There's no humor, and there's a dramatic discord between the times when she's alone and the time when she's communicating with the team.

Phil: If she were just dropped on this island and was in complete solitude the entire time, this may have been a completely different game because you're like, okay, she's struggling through this.

Phil: But it was just a completely impersonal game to me because like when Nate might say something to offset the mood or be funny, the only things Lara ever says is like, oh, look at this script.

Phil: This is from the Edo period of Japan.

Phil: I would never have thought it to be in this region.

Tom: That's better voice acting and writing, by the way.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And it's just like the only time she's talking to herself, it's like, okay, fine.

Phil: So while she was a sympathetic character, I found that I didn't connect with her at all.

Phil: And the other problem that I had with this game was that the graphics were so good on the PC, I thought the entire time I was playing it, I was like, am I only liking this game because the graphics were so good?

Phil: It was kind of a throwback to the Commodore era where I was impressed by graphics, or the Dreamcast era where I was playing Blue Stinger and like, oh, this game is the best game ever, just because it looked good graphically.

Phil: And so while I was playing Tomb Raider on the PC, I was like, am I only liking this because it looks so good?

Phil: So that's my pocket review of Tomb Raider

Phil: I would buy the sequel on demand.

Phil: I mean, I would buy it at full price, pre-order the whole thing.

Phil: But I couldn't help but feeling the entire time I was playing that I was playing something that was leaving me unfulfilled.

Tom: Well, see, I think an important thing here is that you didn't play a whole lot of the older Tomb Raiders, especially on the PlayStation, because to me, the soul in the game, and I agree mostly with what you say, but to me, the soul in the game was the fact that after Crystal Dynamics took over the series, while they did understand what made Tomb Raider good, they were still basically making the original PlayStation games, right?

Tom: This was finally a Tomb Raider attempting to do something new with Tomb Raider that completely got what was good about the original Tomb Raider in terms of the gameplay and the settings.

Tom: So that was to me, that was the soul.

Tom: But on the other hand, they really did completely miss a lot of the characters.

Tom: Tomb Raider, I don't know if this was apparent in Underworld, but on the PlayStation, that was always a very humorous game.

Tom: They were all very funny.

Tom: Lara Croft was basically a parody of Indiana Jones and that sort of thing.

Tom: She wasn't just copying them, she was parodying them.

Tom: And they didn't really capture the emotional spirit of Tomb Raider, but they absolutely nailed the feeling and what Tomb Raider was all about in terms of gameplay.

Tom: So that to me was the soul of it, basically.

Phil: We're certainly toward the end of this game, which has one of the first endings of a game I've played recently.

Phil: They did go into that Indiana Jones mode, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, very much so.

Phil: And in that way, again, on a technical level, I can't fault this game.

Phil: It was just a feeling that I had in response to it.

Phil: And it was much like Crystal Damach's work with Underworld.

Phil: Underworld I thought was a great game, but it was a very lonely game where you didn't really feel a connection to Lara at all.

Phil: And even though in this game she's very sympathetic, I didn't feel a connection to her.

Phil: And I don't know what to pin that on really.

Tom: I think it is mainly because she's such a poorly written character.

Tom: The story, as I said, I found perfectly fine, but I thought the characters in it were just so poorly depicted.

Phil: I mean, because her character is entirely discordant.

Phil: The story is actually quite a romp, but her character is basically a learned college student with a lot of experience in archaeology, normal person, gets on an island, gets hungry, kills a deer.

Tom: Then kills about people.

Phil: Yeah, gets threatened, kills a man, then kills about people through the course of a game.

Phil: And is now some sort of superhuman character.

Phil: She becomes like Master Chief, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, it's the same thing.

Phil: Halo very nearly was my game of the year last year, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Very nearly, wasn't.

Phil: And probably the reason why it got close was because they finally gave Master Chief some sort of character development with the Cortama story.

Phil: You know, it was very touching, but you can take a game like Halo and say, OK, this is, you know, technically impressive visually, whatever.

Phil: The pacing is great.

Phil: The level design is great, whatever.

Phil: But how can you relate to someone like Master Chief?

Phil: And I think that's what they've done here with Lara Croft.

Tom: Well, if you're as awesome as I am, you can easily.

Phil: Well, I know you can.

Phil: We're going to dedicate a whole show to Halo one of these days.

Phil: So that's basically it.

Phil: You can read Tom's review of Tomb Raider at laserlanding.com.

Tom: And I go further than my colleague Phil, and I do criticize it technically.

Tom: Quite extensively, in fact.

Phil: Yeah, I read that review last night, and actually I didn't disagree with it at all on any level, and it was a very good read, very well written.

Phil: So that's basically it for me in terms of my final impressions.

Phil: What games do you have, Tom?

Tom: And not just any game.

Tom: As you were alluding to, the game that I have been playing is Deadly Premonition The Directors Cut.

Tom: Now, I would just like to completely contradict your impressions of it, as this is not a problem that only I run into, but one many people have going by forums.

Tom: There are some serious audio issues going on here.

Tom: The one that's probably going to be the most annoying to most people is the fact that very often the audio stutters.

Tom: So when people are talking in a cut scene or in game play, what happens is it literally sounds like someone's using one of those ventrilo-harassment things or has a mixing board and is punching in the lines said by the characters.

Phil: You're playing this on PlayStation obviously, and you downloaded this, and you're playing it on a Slim or a Super Slim?

Tom: On a Slim.

Phil: Mrs.

Phil: Fogg, Velvet, at this point, right now, is playing this in the other room.

Phil: She's like hours into it.

Phil: I've been watching her all weekend.

Phil: Not a single problem with it.

Phil: We're playing it on the original PlayStation.

Tom: So what you're saying, if you've got a original PlayStation, use it on that.

Tom: But I did do some goozling on this.

Tom: I did do some goozling on this.

Tom: And other people are having my issue.

Tom: So I don't know why I'm having it and you're not, but it is incredibly annoying.

Tom: And also, as they're punching in these lines, all audio stops for a second.

Tom: So it's stuttery as well.

Tom: And there's also other issues with stuttering on the audio.

Tom: On the menu a couple of times, I've had the song...

Tom: Basically, the best way to describe it is audio slowdown.

Tom: So you're getting snippets of the song cutting in and out at a slower speed to what it's meant to be playing at.

Tom: And for me, though, the worst issue with the sound, and I will say, if I was not playing this to review it, I would have stopped playing this at the moment and possibly not gone back to it, because whenever I'm indoors, there is an incredibly annoying buzzing sound, which is probably not as bad as I'm making it out to be.

Tom: Most people would have rolled with this, but to me, it is game-destroying.

Tom: When I'm playing this, it makes me feel sick.

Tom: It's just so incredibly annoying.

Phil: How could this be happening?

Tom: I don't know.

Phil: Are the people experiencing it?

Tom: Yes, they are.

Tom: What's going on?

Phil: Have you downloaded patches for this?

Tom: I haven't seen any patches come up for it thus far, so I don't know what's going on.

Tom: You would expect these sorts of issues to be had by more people.

Tom: I mean, that's surely going to be a pretty major thing if...

Phil: Well, no one's playing the freaking game.

Tom: That's true.

Phil: The starters.

Phil: I mean, so how are they going to know?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: Well, Velvet isn't having any problems with it, so...

Phil: None.

Phil: I've been watching it.

Phil: I've been sitting there loving the game, you know, and just remembering all my fun times with it.

Phil: And you're having these troubles.

Tom: And it is so annoying.

Tom: As I said, I would have stopped playing this if I did not have to for review, which is not a comment on anything about the game itself apart from the buzzing.

Tom: But as for the game itself, now you were saying in your podcast, this is a rough few hours, but I think it's more...

Phil: My podcast.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That's right.

Tom: I admit it is your podcast.

Tom: I admit it.

Tom: But as you were saying, it gives off a terrible first impression, but I don't think it does after the game begins.

Tom: To me, the major problem is the opening cutscene, and it might be accurate to the rest of the game, but the opening cutscene, while you do get a fair bit of the humor coming through in it, it's like this really serious, melodramatic thing.

Tom: You come across a dead body, mutilated body in the woods, then it goes through family members and friends crying, and the acting in these scenes is so bad.

Tom: The animation is just abysmal.

Tom: They are holding up these things to look at them.

Tom: They're all clearly very long-sighted because they're holding up these small photos as far away from their faces as they possibly can, and the impression it gives off is a game that is attempting to be completely serious and is just completely missing the mark.

Phil: I think that the first hour and a half of this game gives the worst impression of the best game ever.

Phil: I've never seen a better game start worse.

Phil: And again, just so our listeners know, I give Deadly Premonition a out of

Phil: I played the original on the and I've played a little bit more of it on the PlayStation

Phil: I think this game is brilliant.

Phil: It's got a lot of technical problems.

Phil: It has bad graphics.

Phil: It has really bad graphics.

Phil: It has really bad sound.

Phil: The controls are mediocre at best.

Tom: They're powerful on PSI have to say.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: The driving controls are poor, not good, not mediocre.

Phil: But this game's story and heart...

Phil: Of course, this is coming from a Yakuza apologist.

Phil: The game's story and heart trumps all of that by far.

Phil: So I do wonder how far you are into this game.

Tom: Well, if you can remember, I assume by the number of clues I've fixed up, three quarters of the way through the Lumber Mill, which is...

Phil: The very start of the game.

Tom: It's about the third combat section, I believe.

Tom: The first one is the opening one, then you have the hospital.

Tom: Actually, I will say the first hour and a half is absolutely abysmal because they introduce the combat and gameplay to you in a scene with rain.

Tom: Now, the frame rate in this game is not good in the best of circumstances.

Tom: So if you're then adding rain to it, it becomes...

Tom: It's not unplayable, but it's getting close to being unplayable and it's certainly wonky enough to be giving people like me a little bit of eye strain.

Tom: So yeah, I would say overall the opening hour and a half is just abysmal.

Phil: Yeah, it's really poor.

Phil: It's the closest that the game comes to Resident Evil in terms of its level design.

Phil: And then after that, it's a complete departure from it.

Phil: So do know that if you're playing this game...

Phil: If you hang in with it though, I mean past the three hour point, you won't be able to stop playing because of the story and the characters.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: But here's the thing on the story and the characters.

Phil: As soon as...

Tom: And this is another reason why I should have skipped that opening cutscene before the menu loads, is as soon as York came on screen, I was enjoying the game.

Tom: That is a great way to introduce his character.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: He's basically driving along, and he is surely the worst driver in any game ever.

Tom: He's driving along, talking on his mobile phone to someone, looking at anything but the road, and attempting to light a cigarette, while talking about Tom and Jerry in, with the preamble making it sound like he's discussing something seriously crime related.

Phil: Is he talking to Zack at that point?

Tom: I can't remember if he was talking to Zack or to someone else, but he is visibly talking to someone on the phone.

Phil: Have you at least figured out that you were Zack?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Tom: Yes, I have.

Tom: Which by the way, I think that is a perfect way to get the player involved in the world.

Tom: That works so well.

Tom: And it allows him to do all these inner monologues so humorously rather than if he was just talking to himself, which of course is the feeling you get anyway, but the preamble is that you are Zack.

Tom: So it's completely quirky, yet not completely ridiculous at the same time.

Phil: And how about those dialogues with Zack about movies and popular culture from the s and s?

Phil: How are you finding that?

Tom: I've only had one about film so far, and that is the first one, which is about Attack of the Calatomatoes.

Tom: And there is one thing I'm going to have to say is just completely crap about these conversations.

Tom: And one of the things that I absolutely despise so far in the game is the incredibly long driving section.

Tom: So far of...

Tom: I've probably been playing for two to three hours.

Tom: At least an hour and a half or an hour of that has been me driving in what is an incredibly dull driving system with an incredibly annoying map.

Tom: You've got to...

Tom: You've got to be able to move around the map.

Tom: You've got to press start, which if you're mid-conversation, stops the conversation.

Tom: So you might get into a car...

Phil: There's a way to have the map overlay without doing that.

Tom: That's if you press select, but you can't navigate on it, can you?

Tom: I'm pretty sure you can't.

Phil: There's no navigation whatsoever.

Phil: It is, beyond being the worst introduction in any video game, it also has the worst map of any video game.

Tom: No, but if you press select, it enlarges the mini map, so you can only see what's close to you.

Tom: But if you press start, you go to the map and you can navigate around it, so you can plot a route to the place you're going.

Phil: Yeah, but you can't just, like, pick a point...

Tom: No, no, no, but if you get lost and you're mid-conversation, and there's a time limit to where you get to, you might want to listen to the conversation, but you're completely lost, so you're going to fail the thing and have to start it again.

Tom: But if you go to the map to figure out where the fuck you are and where you're going, then that's the end of the conversation and you can't start it again.

Tom: And the other ridiculous thing about this is if you want to get out of the car to pick something up, like there's a rare item that I was trying to get that only appears in the rain.

Tom: And it just so happens that along the road to where I was going, this rare item appears.

Tom: Now, I've gone through most of the conversation, so I don't care if they go on ahead without me.

Tom: But I can't get out of the car.

Phil: Why would you want to get out of the car?

Phil: There's scintillating conversation going on.

Tom: Because, no, the conversation was over.

Tom: So I'm just sitting here, driving through this monotonous rain, stuck at miles per hour or whatever the speed limit of the car is.

Tom: I want to get out and grab this fucking item, so I don't have to go back to it in the future and drive for more minutes to get back to it.

Tom: And I can't because they say, Oh, we've got...

Tom: What are you doing, Zach?

Tom: Don't you want to continue with the investigation?

Tom: No, I don't!

Tom: If you're asking what the fuck I want to do as Zach, Zach is telling you, Get out of the goddamn car!

Phil: I don't think you have to get out of the car.

Phil: I think you can just drive over items.

Tom: No, you can't.

Phil: Is that like Crazy...

Tom: No, you can't.

Phil: That game had killer controls in terms of driving.

Phil: Just let me say.

Phil: Okay, just please, please play another three hours of this game.

Phil: It will turn around.

Tom: And one thing I want to say on the gameplay, I know there's people that go and say the gameplay is in general just abysmal.

Tom: Now...

Tom: It's really not.

Tom: These...

Tom: From one of the better terms, the dungeons in the game.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I don't see that they're bad.

Tom: They're not exactly very good or anything, but it's not as if they're completely in the way of you moving from...

Tom: What are they called again?

Tom: The Profiling Clues.

Tom: They're a complete slog to get there.

Tom: One thing I think that they do very cleverly is they make the ranged weapons really useless.

Tom: This is not just because the aiming is absolutely abysmal.

Tom: It's also because they are deliberately designed to be weaker than the melee weapons unless you're getting headshots, which is a pain in the ass because of the controls.

Tom: But because they make the focus on melee, and so you're going to be doing melee, which gives you at worst a two-hit kill and quite often a one-hit kill, it makes the combat somewhat intense because you're always deliberately making yourself vulnerable to the attacks on the enemies.

Tom: And another clever thing they do is they make the movement of the enemies unpredictable.

Tom: So while you're lining up a shot to shoot them, they can suddenly basically teleport forwards and be right next to you.

Tom: And also if you're going along and you're running away from enemies behind you to go and bash someone over the head, you then spin around and suddenly they teleport behind you, which actually makes these sections, which could have been dull but certainly not bad, but really, really dull, actually enjoyable and somewhat vaguely intense.

Tom: So I think that you've got to call that good game design, it's not really good game design, but you've got to give that credit for what it's doing.

Phil: The strength of this game is that in as many technical weaknesses that it has, the gameplay elements of it are so strong and the character development elements are so strong to override it.

Phil: I mean, that's why it's such a powerful game.

Phil: You know me and Leo, people who are intelligent people who have played a lot of games for a lot of years.

Tom: It's not debatable on the intelligence part.

Phil: Well, at least we've been exposed to a lot of games for a lot of years.

Phil: Why do we both give this game a ?

Phil: I mean, there's got to be something to it, right?

Phil: What do you think of the voice acting of the opposing enemies?

Tom: See, well, I was just about to move on to the sound and before we get to that though, I want to say something else about the sound.

Tom: Now, so recently I've played a lot of horror games.

Tom: I've played, or at least games that have horror themes.

Tom: I've played The Walking Dead, Left Dead Curse Mountain, Metro Last Light.

Tom: I'm probably forgetting a few.

Tom: This is easily the most creepy, and it's not because it's doing anything particularly creepy, any more creepy than the other games, but it knows that to get a level of creepiness, you don't attempt to come up with something elaborate and complicated, like say The Walking Dead does with its story and the choices, or Left Dead does with its presentation, and so on and so forth.

Tom: If you want to create something creepy, you've got to go directly to the base of things.

Tom: So this creates a really creepy atmosphere within the dungeon simply due to the fact that as you're going along, there's babies crying, there's painful ambient music on as well.

Tom: It nails that.

Tom: And it is a cheap way to do this.

Tom: But at the end of the day, the best way to do this often is the cheapest way, which is why a lot of the most successful horror films are bad, basically.

Tom: Because to get this reaction out of people, you need a certain level of jarriness and abrasiveness.

Tom: And it gets that, which a lot of modern horror games completely miss.

Tom: They have vaguely creepy music, but it's not at all abrasive.

Tom: So it loses its creepiness, because it's actually kind of enjoyable to listen to.

Phil: The music in this game is incredible.

Phil: Where they go from the whistling tune, it sounds vaguely like, you know, Mario's theme.

Tom: And the theme song to the town that plays on the menu, I love that song, that is so good.

Tom: One thing I hate about it, though, is every single fucking time Emily has appeared so far, they start playing it just out of the blue, and it is so damn annoying.

Tom: I know by the time I finish this game, I'm going to absolutely despise it.

Phil: Well, did you see the similarities between that and Mario's theme from the Super Mario Brothers game?

Tom: I find that hilarious.

Tom: Because that's the thing.

Tom: This game is meant to be funny.

Tom: This is the other thing.

Tom: How can people think this is accidentally funny?

Tom: Maybe you have a different view on this, because I remember you saying it was earnest, which might...

Phil: Oh, it is.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: This is meant to be hilarious, and it is hilarious.

Tom: I mean, those voices are absolutely hilarious.

Tom: So you're going along, and your killing spiel is, I don't want to die, why kill me?

Tom: And that sort of thing.

Phil: For the listeners, over and over again, throughout the game, when you're killing zombies, they say, I don't want to die, please don't kill me.

Phil: You'll hear that about times during this game.

Phil: And it is done in earnest.

Phil: Sweryis a Japanese developer who is ESL.

Phil: He doesn't speak English.

Phil: So this was a part of the original Japanese game as well.

Phil: And he just must have thought that it sounded creepy and it sounded cool and that's fine.

Phil: But obviously, you're not going to play that times in a video game every time you kill a zombie, right?

Tom: See, I'm sure that has got to be deliberately funny.

Phil: I'm not.

Tom: Wait a minute, though, Stop.

Tom: Wait a minute, though.

Tom: But bear in mind, we are listening to the American dub.

Tom: So to comment on something that specific of that nature, you have to compare it to the Japanese dub.

Tom: But...

Phil: Yeah, that's true.

Phil: But I have listened to an interview with the people that did the audio for this game, as well as an interview with Swery.

Tom: If he has no knowledge of English, how can you necessarily go in by what he's saying, and also with his communication to the people that directed the audio, how can you necessarily think that, just because he's saying in the interview, that this is meant to be creepy, that what he's saying is being accurately represented?

Phil: No, you're absolutely right, because what I'm saying is he has heard this, and he has no problem with it.

Phil: But because he is ESL, he probably doesn't even know what he's listening to.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: I don't want to die, probably sounds like to us, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And so he's like, oh yeah, that's good, yeah, put that in the game times.

Tom: The thing about it is, as hilarious as it is, I think it actually adds to the melancholy atmosphere, because you're killing these people, and they don't want to die.

Tom: As funny as that is represented through this audio, it does add to the atmosphere.

Tom: It makes it a little bit more creepy, even though it's hilarious every time you hear it.

Tom: It's hilarious.

Tom: If you think about it, that's slightly melancholic, right?

Phil: It is hilarious, because you've got this shambling zombie coming to you.

Phil: What has he or she got to live for?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: And they're ignorant of what they're doing.

Phil: And yet, when faced with their own mortality, they're pleading with you.

Phil: No, this is great.

Phil: This is exactly what I set out to do, walking through this hall, attacking random humans with no arms.

Phil: I don't want to die.

Tom: Let's just stick with this parody point.

Tom: Now, once again, you were saying, or at least implying, that this is generally not meant to be a parody.

Tom: Have you seen Twin Peaks?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Well, so far, this is at least % of the time completely a parody of Twin Peaks.

Tom: It's not...

Phil: It's not a parody.

Phil: It's a tribute.

Phil: No.

Tom: No.

Phil: I'm telling you, I've read up on this.

Phil: I've read interviews with the guy, and I know that the stores and the scene for Greenvale, they're actually real stores in the same town in which Twin Peaks was shot.

Tom: Here's I think where we're going wrong, is because my definition of parody is not what Americans would immediately take a parody, which is, for example, the Single Ladies parody with Justin Timberlake, where you take something and you then just play it up to be as absurd as possible.

Tom: Parody can be a lot more nuanced than that, and it can be done as tribute.

Tom: Perhaps a better way to describe it would be as satire.

Tom: So you take, for example, the...

Tom: I can't remember the name of the guy, but it's a famous writer, and I am just destroying my credit if I not remember in the game.

Tom: But the famous satirical tract about Ireland eating babies in the......potato forest.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So what that is doing is, and obviously this wasn't done as a tribute, but that is doing exactly what Deadly Premonition is doing.

Tom: It not only makes fun of the thing that it is parodying, it also copies it very accurately so that it is more than just an over-the-top parody, where the humour is just in the absurdity of it.

Tom: And there are other...

Tom: And of course, you can also do this if you are paying homage to something.

Tom: Just because you are paying homage to something that you love doesn't mean that when you are paying homage to it, you can't be making fun of it at the same time.

Phil: This is absolutely directly influenced by and trying to copy Twin Peaks, but we are talking about the matter of intent, and you can only go by someone's words as to whether they intended it to be a parody or a tribute.

Phil: And Swery says it.

Phil: Oh, he has no idea.

Phil: What are you talking about?

Phil: So he is playing Japanese ESL dumb on this.

Phil: He is like, oh, well, yeah.

Phil: Twin Peaks was great.

Phil: Just because we picked the same exact town to shoot this in doesn't mean it has to do with that.

Phil: So obviously it was an influence, whether it's a tribute or a satire, is probably in the eyes of the viewer.

Tom: Yeah, or both in my eyes.

Tom: But it's not just that.

Tom: I mean, for example, the exploding crates.

Tom: That has got to be a parody of the use of crates in many games, surely.

Phil: I don't know that that's a...

Phil: I think that's just him making a video game and he's like, okay, crates explode in video games.

Phil: Because if you play the other game like spy fiction, they're just the most generic games possible.

Phil: I think what you've got here is...

Phil: If you were to take a star athlete, everyone can say this guy is a really great football player, really great baseball player, really great basketball player, really great soccer player, right?

Phil: And he writes a book.

Phil: And literary people catch on to it and are like, wow, this guy is really talented.

Phil: This guy has something to say.

Phil: This book is profound.

Phil: And other people are like, oh, no, it's kind of like Nino Collado to bring this back to gameunder.net, where some people are like, oh, well, this is just a guy talking about his own work experiences.

Phil: And other people are like, no, this is a masterful insight into Australian culture and blue collar labor relations or whatever.

Phil: I think it's all in the eye of the viewer.

Phil: And because Swery is Japanese, I don't think we can honestly know.

Phil: You can only look at his other works.

Phil: And I think that an exploding barrel in Deadly Premonition...

Phil: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Phil: I think an exploding barrel in Deadly Premonition is just an exploding barrel.

Phil: He thinks that exploding barrels are cool, and that's what video games have.

Phil: And so we'll put some of those in Deadly Premonition too.

Tom: Well, maybe.

Tom: But I'll accept that it's in the eye of the holder, but there's just so many of this sort of thing throughout the entire thing.

Phil: Well, I mean, before you say that, though, I mean, the fact that we can have these kinds of discussion about this game, I mean, do you understand the depth of conversation that we're having about this game as opposed to many of the other games that we talk about has to indicate that something special is going on here?

Tom: Yes.

Tom: And on that point, once again, back to the parody, the thing is about this Losting translation, I think if you...

Tom: and certainly it would be better if either of us were more familiar with his previous games.

Tom: If he has any, are you in fact familiar with them?

Phil: Yes, Spy Fiction for the PlayStation

Phil: For example.

Tom: Okay.

Tom: Well, once again, you take something like Binary Domain and obviously Toshiro Nagoshi is far more literate in English, shall we say, than Swery, or at least that's how it comes across in the game.

Tom: You can very easily sort of get a feel for what is going to be lost in translation when someone like, when someone Japanese is imitating a Western game or vice versa, right?

Phil: Ah, gosh.

Phil: You know, I hate to disagree with you, but I don't think Nagoshi is any more cultured in Western literature or culture than anyone else.

Tom: No, no, that's what I'm saying.

Tom: What I'm saying is his articulation to an English audience is clearer.

Phil: But I think that's only because he's got Sega localization behind him.

Tom: Yeah, but that's what I'm, but wait a minute.

Tom: I'm actually referring to him in interviews.

Tom: So if we wanted to get what his intent was, we could more easily understand what he was going for going by his interviews, right?

Phil: Again, I hate to disagree with you because I don't want to drag this out, but I think that's also because there's a Sega PR person there in the interview, and I think it's also Sega PR signing off on interviews before they go to publication.

Tom: Yeah, well that doesn't contradict the point that I'm getting to because what I'm getting to is, even with that in mind, and bear in mind I have never read a Toshihiro Nagashi interview, so I was just making that up on the spot.

Phil: You jerk.

Phil: I have.

Phil: It is a great interview of him and Nintendo Power.

Tom: But you look at something like Binary Domain and various numerable Japanese interpretations of Western media, you can get a feel for the things that they're going to misinterpret and misunderstand and fail to appropriate again, right?

Phil: Absolutely, yeah.

Tom: Now, to a degree, this is the case.

Tom: What's really been missed from Twin Peaks is the sense of tragedy and sense of small town community.

Tom: So far, of course, I haven't played far into Deadly Premonition, so this might change.

Tom: But so far...

Phil: It will.

Tom: But so far, the thing that has been basically not transported over from Twin Peaks are those two elements.

Tom: So it's focused entirely on the humorous dialogue and quirky character.

Tom: And once again, this is simply, of course, my interpretation of it.

Phil: Your simple interpretation.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: If you were going to make a parody of something that you got and loved, you would probably, for many people, want to parody the more outlying stuff, such as what I just mentioned, and not poke fun at the heart of the show, the emotional core of the thing that you love.

Phil: Well, yeah.

Phil: I mean, if you love it, right.

Tom: So that's what I was trying to get at with the satirical take in an homage.

Tom: But by the same token, you look at something like Binary Domain, where what's being missed from action films is once again exactly the same thing.

Tom: It's the emotional core that does not come across in translation.

Tom: So what Binary Domain has from action games is the ridiculous action scenes and the action one-liners and all the sort of surface things that are immediately apparent.

Tom: And it doesn't present its themes in the same way that themes are illustrated in an action game or film.

Phil: Well, absolutely I agree, because if you play Binary Domain, it's like playing Gears of War, except it has heart.

Tom: So the point is basically that either interpretation, as far as either of us can tell, makes about as much sense and that, once again, this was where I was going with my preamble of assuming that Toshihiro Nogoshi was more understandable in interviews, regardless of the reason, I still wouldn't take what the person themselves are saying as gospel.

Tom: So I'd basically just be ignoring their comments on the artwork, slash game, or whatever you want to call it in question as well.

Phil: That they created.

Phil: Yeah, typical reviewer.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: I mean, yeah.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: You're taking a guy who is tweeting about this game, you just have to look at this guy's Twitter.

Phil: He just is so, this is the game that he made, and he is so believing of it.

Phil: And he thinks that anyone who likes it, like Destructoid gave it to he's like, yeah, these people really like it.

Phil: And the people that say, oh, it's so bad, it's good, all he hears is, it's good, right?

Phil: I was watching a cut scene earlier today in Deadly Premonition and I was like, okay, I finally now get what people were saying when they say it's so bad, it's good.

Phil: Because if you just look at this cut scene, this is really bad.

Phil: I mean, on every level, graphically, shot selection, voice acting, this is terrible.

Phil: I mean, it's just terrible.

Tom: See now, I actually think so far the voice acting is good.

Tom: And the reason for this is...

Phil: From time to time, though, it is good, but from time to time, they've got some disconnected voice acting where they've got two pet characters interacting that obviously weren't recording at the same time.

Tom: That's gonna be, I guarantee that's gonna be every single person in this.

Tom: There's no way they have people recording at the same time in a localization of this budget.

Tom: No chance whatsoever.

Tom: Most big films cannot be bothered doing this.

Tom: The thing that I am extremely impressed by is how excellent the translation of the script is.

Tom: And here's a simple tip, and this doesn't apply just to writing.

Tom: If you look at anything, anything as far as the story and character is concerned, you can immediately tell how good it is gonna be within a very small margin of error by looking at the names of the characters involved.

Phil: Like Anna Graham?

Tom: Yep, or Francis York Morgan.

Tom: Those are great names.

Tom: They're humorous, or at least Francis York Morgan is.

Tom: It's quirky, it's humorous, but it's not completely over the top, and it's believable.

Tom: You can, from that you, it can immediately tell, okay, now they've got a sense.

Phil: Someone's paying attention.

Tom: For what they're doing.

Tom: They understand writing.

Tom: They don't just think, okay, I'm gonna come up with the most absurd name because this is an absurd thing.

Tom: And writing is just the idea.

Tom: They understand there's actually more to writing than that.

Tom: So immediately, you can tell.

Tom: And the same goes for films.

Tom: Basically anything that involves writing, you can immediately tell from the names.

Tom: And the script is really good.

Tom: There is lots of really bad lines in it.

Tom: Let's be honest.

Tom: There's clunkers at a reasonable rate.

Phil: Yeah, but it's a lot of dialogue, though.

Phil: You're gonna get some clunkers.

Tom: But it is original.

Tom: It's not like your average game script.

Tom: It's not like your average film script.

Tom: It's original, solid writing.

Tom: And the voice acting, there is nothing remarkable about the voice acting whatsoever.

Tom: But this just shows that voice acting really, really needs decent writing.

Tom: And it makes such a difference.

Tom: And the reason, once again, the voice acting, when they come across a clunker, they deliver it so badly.

Tom: These are not great voice actors.

Tom: And this is not greatly directed voice acting.

Tom: But because of the-

Phil: To let you know how deep into this bullshit I am, I actually also listened to an interview with the localization guy for this game.

Phil: And I know that it was a low budget, but again, earnest effort.

Tom: And that's the other thing that comes across.

Tom: Everything in this is made with love, and that includes the localization.

Phil: Yeah, they bled their hearts out for this game.

Tom: Final thing is just two very quick things, because we've been talking so long about it, we may as well go into basically everything we possibly can.

Tom: And the first thing is, this is the second ever game to not understand the resolution that I'm trying to play the game at, which is p.

Tom: So when I start this game, as soon as it's gone past the move warning screen, it switches immediately to an aspect ratio of four to three.

Tom: With black bars at the bottom of the top of the screen, the only other game, just to give you a sense of the budget involved, the only other game that I've come across that has done this is Papo and Yo.

Tom: And that at least has the courtesy of being playable in four to three, so they weren't black bars at the top and the bottom of the screen.

Tom: So this is below Papo and Yo.

Phil: This is the thing.

Phil: This game came out for the and as I said, the Directors Cut is now available for the PlayStation

Phil: And people are like, okay, Directors Cut, you know.

Phil: And a lot of the sales are going to be driven by people who are like, people who don't own a but have heard all the hype.

Phil: But still, if you're going to put Directors Cut on it, I want stuff.

Phil: I want interviews with the voice actor who played York.

Phil: I want interviews with Swery.

Phil: I want the best audio and visual fidelity.

Tom: Do you know what is in the special thing down the bottom?

Tom: That is blackout for me.

Phil: Not yet, and not until I, you know, Velvet Beats the Game.

Tom: So maybe that will contain what you're after.

Phil: I'll let you know next week.

Tom: And how shit is that, though, that you can't access that?

Tom: Because so many people, because this is such a cult game and everyone loves it, so many people are going to be re-buying this.

Phil: Yeah, I did.

Tom: Fucking play through the game again, which they're probably going to do anyway, but wouldn't the first thing you want to do see what the special features are?

Phil: That is the first thing I wanted to do.

Phil: Now, the reason why I bought this game is because fucking imported it, as we all know from previous episodes, is because I want an excuse to play it again, because I find it to be such a brilliant out of game, right?

Phil: So the first thing I do is I say, oh, special, okay, because you're buying the Directors Cut.

Phil: Let's see what's in here.

Phil: You know, blooper reel, whatever.

Phil: No, grayed out, sorry.

Phil: Gonna have to beat the game.

Phil: And you're like, well, yeah, I was gonna beat the game anyway.

Phil: But you know, what if you just replayed the game like three quarters of the way through and you're like, yeah, I got to a hard boss.

Phil: You know, I've already beaten this game.

Phil: I don't really need the trophies or whatever.

Phil: It's a crime.

Phil: If you're gonna have a HD remix or a Directors Cut, you need to have all of those options, unlockable upfront, including cheats.

Phil: You know, like in REyou should be able to play this with the best weapons from the start and all the rest of it.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: I would just say please, please stick with it.

Phil: And I think after a certain point, this game is gonna, you know, hook you in the mouth and you're not gonna be able to stop playing it.

Tom: Yeah, well, as I said, the only reason that I am, do not want to play it is because of the buzzing noise.

Tom: Otherwise, I would be even at this stage all over it.

Tom: Now, I've actually got a question for you about the future of the game.

Tom: Please tell me, for the love of God, the driving is less in the future.

Phil: Well, you know, you can move from first person to third person.

Phil: And you know, if you run out of gas, you can put up a flare.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So what you're saying is there's just as much driving.

Tom: So I'm gonna be spending hours driving along.

Phil: There is less driving.

Phil: There is less driving, but I think they front load it in the first part of the game, because they want you to do the side missions, like collecting flowers, fishing, perving on people through their windows, buying different kinds of pie and all sorts of things like that.

Tom: I don't know.

Tom: I think that is just so stupid, because this is the sort of thing where you wanna hook someone immediately because of how bad everything is on the surface, right?

Phil: The driving is horrible.

Tom: So the driving is horrible.

Tom: It's not fun navigating the world.

Tom: Why would you then want to front load all this bullshit?

Tom: If the story, if the cycle is interesting, there's gotta be a better time to stick them in the story.

Tom: Right?

Tom: Later on.

Tom: Once you're engaged in the gay world so you can forgive the stuff.

Phil: I've got a question for you.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know I'm a wham bam type gamer.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I have no patience.

Phil: I just wanna bam through these games, finish them, analyze them, file them away.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know I have no tolerance for bad mechanics.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No tolerance.

Phil: None at all.

Phil: Zero.

Phil: How do you reconcile that I gave this game a out of ?

Tom: Well, as I said, if it was not for the buzzing, I would wanna continue playing a lot, because as bad as the beginning is, once again, as soon as the opening cut scene begins and he's talking about Tom and Jerry, you know you're in for something original and made with love, you know?

Tom: So why would you wanna stop?

Tom: Because there's enough there to make you put up with the bullshit, even then.

Tom: Even when you're not completely hooked with the story, there's enough to make you wanna play.

Tom: And there's a great sense at that stage that this is going somewhere very special.

Phil: Yeah, I think it's York.

Phil: When he starts talking about the Superman movies and who directed them and all this other sort of thing, I think it does come down to the strength of the character, York, where you're just like, what is going on here?

Phil: If you think there are things that are disturbing in this game, and you said that earlier, right?

Tom: Yeah, not disturbing.

Tom: I say they managed to actually make the atmosphere somewhat creepy, which so many modern horror games completely failed to do.

Phil: You are...

Phil: This is the most disturbing game I've ever played.

Tom: One thing, once again, this is possibly the greatest feature I've come across in a game with side quests that have a time limit on them.

Tom: And this is a pet peeve of mine, because I love going and doing all side quests.

Tom: But if you make them limited, then you've got to go and do them at annoying times in the story.

Tom: So what is possibly Deadly Premonition is, you can at any stage reload any chapter in the game.

Tom: Go and do these side quests, then reload to where you're up to and continue on.

Tom: That is an amazing feature.

Tom: That deserves so much more credit.

Tom: That is genuinely great.

Phil: It's a stupid game.

Tom: That's just amazing though.

Tom: Just cannot comprehend why more guys don't do that.

Tom: That is just so brilliant.

Tom: But at the same time, it only lets you have one save.

Tom: Because the game is so low budget, every time I load it, I'm thinking something is fucked up and my save is going to be ruined.

Tom: So, as awesome as this feature is, I'm afraid to reload a previous section and go back and do something.

Tom: And apparently, there are issues with this that can result in your game being broken.

Tom: You have to start again.

Phil: With your PlayStation, I know you can shove a USB stick in there and back up your saves.

Phil: That's good.

Phil: Yeah, I was doing this for Skyrim, just to be on the save side, because the last thing you want to do is lose the save like that.

Phil: You can't throw in a USB stick and back them up that way.

Tom: So let's go with the earnest angle, just one more time, just quickly.

Tom: Now, this so far comes across to me as, after playing Drive Up, the original Drive Up.

Phil: Yes, which I have also played recently.

Tom: Now, when did that come out?

Phil: I'm gonna guess

Tom: Okay.

Tom: When I was around shall we say, around after playing that, I was inspired.

Tom: And basically, I had an idea for a game somewhat similar to Grand Theft Auto, but the main thing was, you could just drive around doing whatever you wanted, going to any building you pleased.

Tom: The world would function as a normal world would.

Tom: So shops would open and close, people would come and go from work and the whatnot.

Tom: This is literally the game that I would have made at years of age, in full earnest, except, oh, there's also the story.

Tom: But apart from that, this is my dream game from when I was that I would have been capable of making.

Phil: And isn't that worthy enough?

Tom: Exactly, that's by no means criticism.

Phil: Yeah, and I think, and that's the way I see Swery, is that he's so earnest about it, he's just like, yeah, this is great, you can go anywhere, you can do anything, you can go fishing if you want.

Phil: It doesn't matter that the fishing minigame is shit, you know, it doesn't matter that the mechanics of the driving is shit, you can do it.

Tom: Yeah, and one last thing on the earnestness.

Tom: Here's the thing, if it is a satire, I don't think that takes away from the earnestness whatsoever because parody and satire...

Phil: Satire is knowing, you can't have earnest and knowing.

Tom: No, you can, because let me finish here.

Tom: Because his earnestness is in his love for the thing he's created, right?

Tom: That is a big part of the earnestness.

Tom: And it is just as much a barrier to make something shit, right, that you put all your heart and soul into, and be earnest in championing this thing, as if you make a parody or a satire, because everyone's initial reaction to that is, well, okay, it's cool you did a parody or a satire, but that's all it is.

Tom: So if it is a satire and he's so earnest about it, that deserves just as much props from me.

Phil: Okay, so are we gonna stop the show here?

Tom: Yeah, are we just gonna end like that?

Tom: I think that's perfect.

Tom: Just then bring on the music.

Phil: Yeah, why not?

Game Under Episode 6

Stream above, or right-click then save as to download here. You can also listen on Stitcher and iTunes. Why not subscribe to us on RSS?

Impressions
00:15 Tribute to Aarny
00:27 Introduction
00:45 Phil's new games this week.
02:06 Halloween and ANZAC Day.
04:41 Tom talks about games he has gotten.
05:28 Resident Evil Revelations Impressions from Tom and Sub-discussion about limited resources and pacing.

News
27:30 NPD - A Big Downturn.
36:45 Nintendo Shuts Down Playthrough Tutorials on YouTube
43:30 EA Abandons Online Passes (coded DRM for Multiplayer) and side-discussion of Wii U
49:15 Nintendo Direct (we play Care/ Don't Care)

YakuzaZillzONE Minute
57:00 Yakuza 1 and 2 HD coming to Wii U (and side discussion of Wii U price in Australia)
and ... Yakuza 5 Has Sold 590K in Japan
1:01:00 PS4 Potential Detailed in Killzone tech Specs

Impressions
1:09:00 Metro: Last Light

Game Under Episode 5

It's our monthly BIG SHOW, so you may want to use our timeline guide below.  We have an interview with horror expert Rob Lowzak, exclusive Australian impressions of Deadly Premonition: Director's Cut and we talk about our recent and favorite horror games.

Stream Above or Download Directly Here (right-click then save as).  You may also listen to our shows using Stitcher.

Also, please subscribe to our podcast using RSS by clicking here. Or Subscribe with iTunes.

Horror Special

2:53 Apology to the Japanese People.

3:25 Mrs Fogg Buys Some Games

10:00 Deadly Premonition: Director's Cut Impressions.

22:45 Left 4 Dead 2 Impressions (with lots of Half-Life 2 discussion)​

48:40 Cursed Mountain Impressions

Feature 1​

1:08:15 What is it about horror that translates so well to video games?

​Interview with Rob Lowzak
1:11:00 Horror Expert Takes Us Through the History of Horror Gaming
2:21:15 Alan Wake Impressions
2:27:15 Alan Wake: American Nightmare Impressions

Feature 2
2:31:30 Our Favorite Horror Games
2:32:00 Condemned
2:38:30 Rule of Rose

Outro
2:48:10 Vocal Performance by John (@aarny91) (These Owls Can't See Me)

​Transcript:

Phil: This month on The Game Under Podcast, we have a horror special for you, including exclusive embargo-breaking Australian impressions of Deadly Premonition Director's Cut for the PlayStation

Tom: And who knows what sort of horrors are going to happen to us for breaking the embargo?

Phil: I don't care because we don't get free games.

Phil: And we also have an interview with a horror game expert.

Phil: I mean, we actually went to the effort of tracking down a horror game expert and interviewing him, and we recorded it, and we're going to put it on the show.

Tom: It would have been a bit pointless if we didn't record it.

Phil: And we're also going to have our own takes of what makes horror games so compelling.

Tom: And that was Arnie.

Tom: And I'm not sure if you could entirely call it his song, though I don't know if I want to be associated with it, but I made the music and he did the vocals.

Tom: And well, yep.

Phil: They've only heard seconds of it.

Phil: So they don't have anything wrong with it.

Phil: I mean, at this point, it sounds pretty good actually.

Phil: It's like a vocal history of video gaming set to music.

Phil: Music is great, Colin.

Tom: In that case, I'd like to say I did make the music.

Tom: Not only did I make the music, I also basically directed the song.

Tom: Even though he does the vocals, I'm pretty much the entire creative force behind it.

Phil: Well, they're not just left with that second segment.

Phil: We have the full version of the song at the end of this show.

Tom: I would just like to point out when you do get to it at the end, do remember that it was Arnie doing the vocals.

Tom: And I mean, as we all know, generally the person singing is the Towers man for any musical endeavour.

Tom: So blame him.

Phil: I'm Phil Fogg, L, Gs.

Tom: I'm Tom Towers, Ts, S, R, E, Os, W and N.

Phil: And an S.

Tom: I said that already.

Phil: Oh, sorry.

Phil: And this is episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: First of all, thanks to everyone who's listening.

Phil: We've really been overwhelmed with the support that we've gotten so far.

Phil: So thank you very much, Intellifriend.

Tom: Yeah, and I just would like to clarify, last week, I may have come across a little harsh to the poor Hebrew boy who commented on Tom Curtis.

Tom: I just like to point out, we do appreciate comments.

Phil: Oh, absolutely.

Phil: And I also want to apologize for the generally negative Japanese sentiments that I've expressed over the prior four episodes.

Tom: You were raped as a young boy by a Japanese man.

Phil: While that may or may not be true, I'm actually a Japanophile.

Phil: I love Japan.

Phil: I think they are superior in every way.

Phil: And I am not being forced to say this by the Australian Embassy or any other outside...

Tom: The Japanese Embassy that will be forcing you to say that.

Phil: Well, this is a horror special.

Phil: And I have a horrific anecdote to tell you.

Phil: You know, as we've talked privately, Tom, Mrs.

Phil: Fogg has been in the United States for the last two weeks.

Phil: And basically...

Tom: So we've been having a lot of fun together in her absence.

Phil: Well, we've been recording tons of podcasts, that's for sure.

Tom: Yeah, if that's what you want to call it.

Phil: So, in any case, I emailed Velvet.

Phil: She said, look, if there's anything that you want in the United States, just send me an email, that way I have it, I can access it.

Phil: So I'm going to quote you an email I sent to her.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Not in order.

Phil: Quote, games, any and all.

Phil: Lost Odyssey would be nice.

Phil: If you want to check for duplicates, see my backloggery profile.

Phil: And I included a link, right?

Phil: Because I have games.

Phil: And the reason why I told you to get any and all games is because the is region locked.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So it's like basically at this point, if you see an Xbox game we don't own, just buy it.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: Of course.

Phil: I also asked her for hoodies from Walmart because there's a particular brand I like from there.

Phil: And some Converse high top size because I've worn them for the last years and they're pretty expensive over here.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And any Disgaea games from Portables.

Phil: So about six days into her vacation, I got a text back from her at work that said the following, don't have internet, Borderlands Knight's Contract, Syndicate, Space Marine, Testament of Sherlock Holmes, Inversion, Survival, Shadows of Kitami, Child of Eden, Blood Drive, Dragon Age

Tom: So she really knocked out your request out of the park there.

Phil: Except for Borderlands there's not a single game on there I want or don't already have.

Phil: Knight's Contract, I don't care about.

Phil: Syndicate, no.

Phil: I mean, I know everyone loves it, but it's not my style of game.

Phil: Space Marine, I already have.

Phil: Testament of Sherlock Holmes.

Tom: Now, do you actually know which Sherlock Holmes game this is?

Phil: Oh, it's a PC.

Phil: I know the PC game.

Tom: Yeah, but are you familiar with why this is so famous?

Phil: Yes, it's big over in Europe.

Phil: It's like Frogwares or whatever is the developer, and Atlas publishes it, and it's crazy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And I actually would have enjoyed it on a intellectual level.

Tom: If I was just randomly given Testament of Sherlock Holmes, I would be excited.

Phil: Oh, I would be too, but it's just not what I was thinking.

Tom: You know, I've literally been, I was following whatever the distributor was, I can't remember who it was, for like two years, waiting for the next Sherlock Holmes game to try and get a review copy from, and it's clearly just dead.

Tom: It's been delayed literally for like two years.

Tom: So...

Phil: Giant Bomb has featured over the last couple of years because it's always at Lipsig or, you know, whatever the European Gamescom type thing is.

Phil: I think it's Gamescom now.

Phil: And they've always made fun of how you go up to the publisher and you're like, okay, so what have you got this year for Sherlock Holmes?

Phil: And they're like, in the first English sentence, they give them, they spoil the game immediately, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which is pretty funny.

Phil: But I'm always suspicious, and I'm sorry to our European listeners, I'm always suspicious of games that are popular in Europe that aren't popular elsewhere in the Western world, like Buzz or SingStar, right?

Phil: I don't know what it is, but it's just basically like, well, you know, I mean, if it's popular in Europe, it's not popular in the rest of the world.

Phil: I don't know, it just puts me off.

Phil: Shadows of Katami or Survivor Shadows of Katami, I don't even know what that is.

Phil: Child of Eden, I have for the PSand is garbage.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Blood Drive is a vehicular combat game from Activision.

Phil: This is back when Activision actually made individual one-off games.

Phil: So God knows what that is.

Tom: That's an amazing title if it's literally some sort of racing game.

Tom: Blood Drive.

Phil: Blood Drive, I know.

Phil: It's like what the Red Cross does, right?

Phil: They give you a cookie and blood.

Phil: And Dragon Age the game that literally killed off BioWare's credibility prior to Mass Effect

Phil: So I'm going, okay, there's no way for me to get back to it because this is a text she sent like nine hours into the past.

Phil: So she gets home today and she hands me some games.

Phil: And so I was expecting that, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: But this is what I actually got, in order of succotude.

Phil: Are you ready?

Phil: Blood Drive.

Phil: So I did get Blood Drive.

Tom: Yep, thank God.

Phil: A game called Bakugan Battle Brawlers.

Tom: I think I've heard of that.

Phil: Also from Activision, which means this must be popular with children, it must be a popular anime, Bakugan, B-A-K-U-G-A-N.

Tom: That sounds very familiar to me, so you may be onto something there.

Phil: It's probably a really bad Super Smash Brothers.

Phil: Sniper Ghost Warrior.

Tom: That's actually meant to be pretty good.

Phil: I know, it's another one of those games that is popular in Europe and nowhere else.

Phil: So I'm worried about that.

Tom: So your true prejudices are coming through here.

Tom: You're not actually anti-Japan, you're anti-Europe.

Phil: I'm not anti-Europe or anti-Japan.

Phil: Read between the lines.

Phil: Duke Nukem Forever.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Which...

Tom: Well, that's gotta be at least an interesting curiosity.

Phil: That's what I thought.

Phil: It's a historical thing that's good for the collection, but at this point, it's the time.

Phil: I've got so many games I wanna beat.

Phil: Table which is still on the border, bordering on Succitude, right?

Phil: So you can see where we're getting better, right?

Tom: Yeah, that's at least a game.

Phil: Then Succitude is, she did get Warhammer K Space Marine, and the only reason that sucks is cause I already have it.

Phil: And then I guess from there, it's all good.

Phil: Red Dead Redemption, Undead Nightmare.

Tom: Not bad.

Phil: On the PlayStation

Phil: MLB the show, cause I'm a huge baseball fan.

Phil: We're clearly in the goodness here.

Phil: She did in fact get me an NTSC copy of Lost Odyssey.

Tom: Excellent.

Phil: And I love Blue Dragon, so I wanna see what Mistwalker's other game's about.

Phil: Borderlands and you know how much I love the first one.

Phil: I mean, this is great.

Tom: So she came through the end.

Phil: And then finally, in my hands, I'm probably one of probably, I'm gonna guess people in Australia that has one of these.

Tom: I would say even because as far as I can see, even Deep Silver has no review copies to give away.

Phil: So you think there's probably less than people who have this game-

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: That I have not revealed in my hands.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: Just let it out.

Tom: Let us know.

Phil: Deadly Premonition, The Director's Cut.

Tom: Hell yes.

Phil: Hell yes.

Phil: And not only do I, am I held it, I played an hour and a half of it this afternoon, and this game is not a-

Tom: So, so, can you, by that, without one and a half hours, I assume you can answer the most important question is whether the alternate ending or the change ending is as good as the original ending.

Phil: Well, one can impugn from the amount of, yeah, I can extrapolate that.

Phil: But basically, like, I've already beaten Deadly Premonition on the

Phil: It's a game that I love.

Phil: I gave it a out of

Phil: I think it's a brilliant, perfect game.

Phil: And there's been a Director's Cut release for it.

Phil: It's only $in North America.

Phil: So, you know, and it's...

Tom: So it's only $here then?

Phil: It's probably going to be probably $here, yeah, because it's going to be limited release and all the rest of it.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: This is a game that's pretty hard to get a hold of.

Phil: Velvet had to go to three Game Stops, and it wasn't at Best Buy, it wasn't at Fry's.

Phil: And then they had to call around to find it.

Phil: So, they said it's been selling extremely well.

Phil: And I can imagine that because it was a exclusive.

Phil: I don't think it's a sweeping generalization to say that Sony exclusive console owners are a little bit more interested in the arty kind of stuff.

Tom: Yep, I'd say that's probably the case.

Phil: That's a fair statement.

Phil: So, for them to have available to them a game that has prior only been available to owners, it'd probably be a good seller.

Tom: Yeah, it's not as if they're going to be releasing a huge amount of copies, though.

Phil: No, no, no, no, no.

Phil: I wonder why they're releasing it at all.

Phil: I've got to think that Sony was helping with this in some sense, because the initial game didn't really make that much money either.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, basically, I mean, if you haven't played Deadly Premonition before, it's a, think about the TV show Twin Peaks.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Right?

Phil: It's set in the Pacific Northwest of the United States.

Phil: You're playing a David Duchovny, X-Files type FBI investigator.

Phil: And what this game is, is it has linear REstyle action levels, right?

Phil: Where you're going through it slowly, solving various simple puzzles and fighting off enemies, right?

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And so, I mean, everyone's familiar with that.

Phil: That's the basic linear style game.

Phil: You solve these puzzles, and as you solve the puzzles, you collect three visions.

Phil: So you're a FBI profiler, right?

Phil: So you're good at profiling psychos.

Phil: And basically, as you collect these pieces of evidence through solving puzzles, it gives you a revelatory cut scene at the end of the level.

Phil: So you basically go through these linear levels, solving puzzles, you see clue by clue, and they slightly unveil it, and then at the end, they show you a revelatory cut scene, which helps you solve the mystery more.

Phil: And so it has a very strong-

Tom: So is the revelation his completed psychological profile?

Phil: Yes, because he's piecing together this evidence, and he also has this paranormal supernatural ability to see things that aren't in the physical realm.

Phil: So he's not only doing the analytical stuff that you get to be a part of, but he's also doing some other kind of supernatural type thing.

Phil: And it's kind of neat because you'd like to think that there are aspects of the FBI that, they hire these people that can kind of see things that other people can't see.

Phil: I mean, at least it's an interesting concept.

Phil: But beyond these linear levels, these usually then funnel out into really great cut scenes where they have these quirky character interactions that are just amazing.

Phil: You really lock into and love the characters that are in this game and feel close to them, which as you go through the game, and obviously it's a horror game, that's the theme of our show, terrible things happen to them, which just makes the impact even more difficult or rewarding as it would be.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So you have these linear levels, great revelatory cut scene, usually followed by a dramatic cut scene and then you have an open world game where you can drive wherever you want, go into whatever store you want, talk to whomever you want, go fishing, collect flowers, shave, buy suits, wear suits, buy food and then when you're ready...

Tom: What do these things affect?

Tom: Do they affect anything within the normal levels or are they just random stuff?

Phil: Well, for example, you can unlock cars, right?

Phil: And you can unlock suits.

Phil: And so if you don't shower for long periods of time, you'll get different responses from people.

Phil: If you don't shave, you get different responses from people.

Phil: I mean, it does impact the linear parts of the game slightly.

Tom: Okay, yeah.

Phil: And also, this is the part where all the side stories unlock.

Phil: There are side mysteries you can do, like you can be a peeping Tom that goes around looking into people's houses.

Phil: And all of this is done in a very straight up style.

Phil: It's not done in a jokey style at all.

Phil: It's developed by Swerywho is a Japanese developer.

Phil: So he's not playing for laps at all.

Phil: He's like dead serious about every aspect of this game.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: So then it's nothing like Twin Feaks.

Phil: No, not at all.

Phil: It's not contrived at all.

Phil: It's very earnest and it's basically like this character, York, is just a fun, interesting guy as are most of the characters, so interesting.

Phil: So it has this great mix of these linear horror levels combined with the open world levels.

Phil: And the open world levels are so, not mundane, but so typical American lifey that when you go back in, not to sound too much like Sarah Palin, but when you go back into the linear aspect of the game, it amps up the horror because you've been talking to these people about the price of gasoline or this or that or local fishing spots.

Phil: And then when you get back into the linear mode, it just makes it all the more creepy because it is that mix of the normal and the exceptionally abnormal, which makes many horror games so good.

Phil: So unless you have more questions about the gameplay.

Tom: I've got one question.

Tom: Is it possible to go along and complete the game well enough if you grow a ridiculous beard?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Okay, good.

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Because otherwise I would not play it.

Phil: And you can wear the same suit throughout the entire game.

Phil: You unlock cars, as I said.

Phil: And then in the original game, the car is handled fairly poorly.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So what's different in the Director's Cut?

Phil: So far from the first minutes, it has a special section, which is unlocked after beating the game.

Phil: So I can't get into that yet.

Phil: It has extra introductory cut scenes, which don't show the face of the person speaking.

Phil: So it's this old man talking to a young child about tales that he knows.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Obviously from his youth.

Phil: It's pretty clear to me, because they have shown his lips for like a microsecond.

Phil: It's pretty clear to me that this is York when he's older.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: The lead protagonist.

Tom: You can pretty much guess that.

Tom: That was my immediate guess when you said we can't see his face.

Tom: So obviously, it's gonna be him.

Phil: Yeah, for reasons that I can't go into because of spoilers, but it's obviously gonna be him.

Phil: And he basically is like saying, at the start of every scene, they've thrown in this extra scene where it's an old man talking to a young child.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: God, this game is creepy.

Phil: Just talking about young children.

Phil: There's twins in this game, by the way.

Phil: There's toddlers.

Phil: And beyond that, he's driving a different car.

Phil: He's driving like a Ford Mustang, whereas before he was driving a traditional FBI government K-car.

Phil: And other people have said that they took out the green filter.

Phil: Me thinks not.

Phil: I mean, the green filter still seems to be there.

Phil: This is supposed to be an HD version of the game.

Phil: It is playable in p and p.

Phil: But in terms of the actual...

Tom: Blessed with decent televisions, not from America.

Phil: Well, who knows, man, because like, this is the US version.

Tom: Oh yeah, that's true.

Tom: That's true.

Phil: Yeah, I'm cutting edge, so.

Phil: But, so, beyond that though, the art assets themselves have not been changed at all.

Phil: So basically what you're seeing is graphics that were old looking to start with, but are now in HD, which is much like hooking up your Wii to an HDTV.

Tom: So does this mean the original Deadly Premonition was not in HD?

Phil: I wish I had the cover in front of me here.

Phil: I really can't say.

Phil: But in terms of the textures and the anti-aliasing and everything, it basically looks worse than the version because now you...

Phil: Like before, you'd be in a suit that was wet and it kind of looked like it had a sheen.

Phil: Now it looks like you're wearing a rubber suit.

Phil: So...

Phil: And other people complained about the frame rate.

Phil: Destructoid did, I know.

Phil: And I don't see any problem whatsoever with the frame rate.

Phil: Now that I have a gaming PC, I'm well accustomed to what good games look like.

Phil: I'm not an idiot.

Phil: This is not a good-looking game, but the look of the game doesn't get in the way of the game.

Tom: The frame rate could easily come along later, though, considering you're only an hour and a half in.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: And at this point, I have really done everything that the engine demands.

Phil: And I can't imagine someone making that up.

Phil: I mean, there's no reason why a reviewer would.

Phil: So that's basically it.

Phil: That's your embargo-busting exclusive Australian impressions of Deadly Premonition and the Director's Cut.

Phil: I would say if you're just a little bit deeper than the average gamer, there's absolutely no excuse for not playing this game now.

Phil: I know it's probably pretty expensive on the these days because of the demand of it, the demand for it and the initial low cut.

Phil: Just try and get a hold of a copy if you can.

Phil: It's a really special game if you like open world games or horror games, because this is a bit of both.

Tom: My question would be, just one last question, would you, considering these problems with the PSversion, do you think it would be worth getting the version instead of it if you had both the PSand the ?

Phil: Well, if you had both, basically, frankly, I would sell you to get the game that you can get for the lowest amount of money.

Tom: Okay, so it's not a huge difference then?

Phil: No, I will tell you one thing though, and that is that in the first one, the combat was a little bit frustrating.

Phil: The camera was a little bit frustrating, whereas in the PlayStation version so far, the combat has been pretty easy, which is good, because the combat is the least consequential part of the game.

Phil: The important part of the game is the puzzle, the story.

Phil: It's so far been a much more enjoyable experience just being able to point and shoot a lot easier.

Phil: They have a better reticule.

Phil: So I'm glad you asked that question, because that adds to actually probably the most significant difference between the two games is that the combat has been greatly improved, as has the controls in the PlayStation version.

Phil: So if they're equal price and equal availability, I'd say get the PlayStation version.

Phil: I mean, in the North America, it's bucks.

Phil: I don't know what's going to be down here.

Phil: But they're good games either way.

Tom: So pretty much either or.

Phil: Either or, whatever you can get a hold of.

Phil: So speaking of Deadly, since this is our horror-themed game, you've been playing a game fairly recently, a fair amount, right?

Tom: Well, not that much, because it's reasonably short, and the game in question is Left Dead which was developed by Valve Corporation and Turtle Rock Studios, who were acquired by Valve during the making of the first Left Dead game.

Tom: Now, if you ever listen to the VG press, you would have heard me talking about this before, and complaining about the lack of gore as being located in Australia, I was forced to play the censored version, right?

Phil: Well, is the sequel not censored in Australia?

Tom: No, both are censored.

Tom: No, the first one wasn't censored, the sequel is censored.

Phil: Oh, okay.

Tom: And, but more recently I found a mod which allows you to play the game uncensored, and it basically changes the experience completely.

Tom: The biggest way that it changes things is that they actually use the gore as a visual guide, as to whether you've killed a zombie in question, right?

Tom: So, if you're shooting a zombie in the head and they just do their generic falling over animation, which usually results in them taking a few steps beforehand, you can't actually tell what point they die at.

Tom: So, you might shoot them several times before they're actually dead.

Tom: Now, with the gore, when you shoot them, their head's going to explode or there's a massive hole in them or whatever, right?

Tom: So, instantly you'd know exactly if you need to keep whining about that zombie or move on to the next one.

Tom: So, it actually changes the gameplay significantly.

Tom: So, it's not just a visual thing, but as a visual thing, the gore is just absolutely brilliantly over the top.

Tom: Heads explode, they're fried in center, limbs get blown off, and my personal favorite is, our two personal favorites is one of them is when you shoot, when you plant an explosive, there's these Ctype explosives that attract zombies.

Tom: Now, so a large bunch of zombies run over to it, they all get killed, and you might expect limbs to be flying everywhere, right, as you would from your standard explosion, yes?

Phil: Well, wait a second, how are they attracted to the C?

Tom: It makes noise, and as we all know, zombies are attracted to noise.

Phil: I'm slowly learning.

Phil: My zombie knowledge is pretty limited.

Tom: Well, as is the enemy, the zombie, so you'll catch up pretty quickly.

Tom: So they run over to these bombs, but instead of massive limbs flying everywhere, though there is that too, sometimes you get an enemy flown many meters through the air with their intestines hanging out, so you get a brilliant stream of intestines through the air, then draped across the ground, which I personally enjoy a great deal, and the only disappointing thing about it is that this long line of intestines fade away, sadly.

Tom: Oh.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So it's like a ragdoll guy being thrown with basically like an intestine attached to him that's going like over meters kind of thing?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Impressive.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And the fading intestine post-explosion is symbolic of one of the most disappointing things about the gore, and that is once a zombie is dead, it cannot be gored anymore.

Tom: So if you've got a pile of zombies and you place an explosive there, it blows up, nothing happens, which if you've got to gain this gore, you just think, I mean, that's going to add a little more to the aesthetic.

Tom: Wouldn't you say?

Tom: It just kind of stands out as being odd.

Tom: And the other awesome gore involved is you can shoot a hole through the stomach of many zombies and you can see through that hole, which once again is pretty cool and can actually be useful for shooting enemies behind them, which is slightly incorrect because this generally results from the sniper rifle, which through multiple zombies anyway, but it's another interesting visual effect.

Tom: So presentation-wise, it really is a brilliant experience once you've got the gore in there.

Phil: Well, that was in Rambo

Phil: I remember he got a rocket launcher that went through his stomach and in a certain shot you could actually see like a hole about the size of an orange through his entire body.

Phil: Unless I'm just completely making that up and fabricating it, in which case I'm a fairly disturbed individual.

Tom: I'm not sure.

Tom: You may have just imagined that, that I can't comment to it.

Phil: I'm pretty sure I watched it on Freeze Frame when I was a kid.

Phil: My question before you continue on with your impressions is, Left Dead, like I've always avoided it because I've always just known it as a multiplayer online shooter.

Phil: And given my online limitations, I've never really explored it, but people absolutely love this and they play it for hours on end.

Phil: I mean, is that a fair characterization?

Phil: And if so, I mean, what makes it so fun and compelling?

Tom: Well, the answer to that is, I have absolutely no idea.

Tom: And the person I was playing it with, by the way, is our very own Arnie, who did the intro theme song.

Tom: And he has played Left Dead for over hours.

Tom: And the original Left Dead for even longer than that.

Tom: So you're probably going to ask him, but I honestly have absolutely no idea.

Tom: This to me is a classic Valve game, in the sense that there is no level design in the games, right?

Tom: There's no sense of pacing.

Tom: There's no sense of spectacle whatsoever.

Tom: Basically, each level feels, as far as the gameplay is concerned, exactly the same.

Tom: They throw at you various sizes of zombie attacks.

Tom: I'll give you that.

Tom: They have a few different powerful zombies that you have to take out.

Tom: They basically do the exact same thing in each level.

Tom: You're going along, you'll fight a few large groups, and you'll be annoyed by some of these special zombie types, types on and off, in basically almost exactly the same quantities in every single level.

Tom: The levels are literally just long corridors.

Tom: You don't use the environment whatsoever.

Tom: So there is absolutely no way to differentiate one level from the other except in the setting.

Tom: And there's only two levels, actually, there's only three levels that stand out setting-wise.

Tom: The first one is the carnival level, which stands out for all the wrong reasons.

Tom: It stands out because of an incredibly stupid part where you've got a really thin corridor and a million zombies running at you, which is incredibly frustrating.

Tom: And as much as I criticise that, it's the one section of the game that is at all different gameplay-wise to any other level.

Tom: So it deserves some credit for its utter stupidity in the way that it's designed, because at least it's something different.

Tom: Now, there's two other levels that stand out aesthetically.

Tom: One of them is a...

Tom: I can't even remember what the setting's meant to be because of how generic it is.

Tom: But the reason it stands out is halfway through the level, this massive storm hits and you're walking through water very slowly and your movement is hindered and there's massive wind which makes you even slower still.

Tom: So the aesthetics then at least alter the gameplay.

Tom: So it goes beyond simply being an aesthetic gimmick and actually does affect the gameplay.

Tom: So that level somewhat stands out gameplay-wise, but you have to give it massive negative points because bear in mind, you literally go through the level, then the storm hits and you retrace your steps exactly back to the beginning of the level.

Phil: Is that the one in the swamp or is that where...

Tom: No, that follows on from the swamp.

Tom: So it is in fact following the previous tracing through water trope from the swamp, but at least it adds to it with the wind.

Tom: And the other level that stands out is the New Orleans level, which is, as far as the game play is concerned, exactly the same as all the other levels, but New Orleans Zombie Attack is a somewhat original setting as far as games are concerned.

Tom: It's all nicely dolled up for Carnival and whatnot, so that's a pretty cool setting.

Tom: But seriously, I do not understand...

Tom: The one other thing that it does very well is the AI of the zombies and the teammates.

Tom: The teammates actually hold their own.

Tom: Of course, they're going to stuff up now and then and completely destroy all the good work you've done, right?

Tom: But most of the time, they can look after themselves.

Tom: You don't have to be constantly healing them and whatnot.

Tom: They're perfectly competent.

Tom: They're AI as it should be as far as teammates are concerned, and the AI of the zombies is also very good, especially considering they're zombies, right?

Tom: Because zombies are basically the ultimate excuse to do shit AI design, right?

Tom: Because they're zombies.

Tom: But these ones, they've got interesting attack patterns.

Tom: They don't just charge at you straight ahead.

Tom: Their attacks can be somewhat unpredictable, so they're always interesting to take out, and the special zombies also are all very unique and to a degree require different strategies to kill.

Tom: But once again, this veiled sense of sameness and lack of ambition comes into the special zombies as well, where even though they might have a different attack pattern, once you get used to the game, you kind of just forget about what they're doing, and it's just a mindless blast fest where you're just filling everything with as much lead as possible.

Tom: And to answer your question, and to contradict myself completely, I think I do understand why people play this for hundreds upon hundreds of hours.

Tom: It is completely mindless fun, and it is fun.

Tom: If you're playing with someone you know, it's enjoyable, because it's not so distracting that you can't have a conversation while playing, and it's not too mindless that you're also not somewhat engaged.

Tom: And the fact that it is so unambitious and it doesn't have anything annoying in it, like retarded teammate AI, because bear in mind, you're always playing with four teammates, right?

Tom: So if you're only playing with one or two friends, then there is AI on your team.

Tom: So if that was poorly done, it would be a major pain in the arse.

Tom: So the reason it is, as far as I can see, so successful is that it doesn't do anything badly.

Tom: But at the same time, to me, it doesn't do anything that goes beyond being very, very just above mediocre.

Phil: Well, you criticize Valve for their saminess.

Phil: I criticize Valve for their safety.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, their games are...

Tom: I criticize them for both.

Tom: I said their saminess and lack of ambition.

Phil: They game test their games to such an extent and they're such technically minded people that they...

Phil: You know, they want to get the algorithm, if you will, of the game correct and have the, quote, perfect game.

Phil: And I think that that sometimes hurts them.

Phil: I mean, like with Portal, sometimes...

Phil: I mean, it sounds ridiculous to say that, remember, I'm the guy who just praised Deadly Premonition, but sometimes a game can be too...

Phil: polished too much or too much polish, you know, to the point where it's like, okay, just because you perfected this one thing doesn't mean I need to see it rubbed in my face for the next four hours.

Tom: Well, I think it worked in Portal because it is only four hours long.

Tom: And here's the thing.

Tom: And I think it also worked in the two Half-Life episodes, right?

Tom: Because once again, they're very short, concise experiences.

Phil: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Tom: But in Half-Life I think that is just, from a design standpoint, an absolutely abysmal game.

Tom: I just do not understand.

Tom: And of course, I do understand, as I just said, why this is the case.

Tom: But I just don't understand how anyone could actually like this.

Tom: Even though I know why they do, it just...

Tom: Well...

Tom: It boggles the mind to me.

Tom: Because you're playing it, and you can see, okay, they've put this in here because there's focus tests of this.

Tom: And the focus group has said, okay, now we've got to have this utterly stupid vehicle section, right?

Phil: Because...

Phil: I mean, there's a different, a very important distinction to be drawn from focus testing and focus playing, right?

Phil: I mean, there's a difference between focus group and focus playing.

Phil: I mean, very different.

Phil: Focus groups are what is typical of everything that you know about it, right?

Phil: I mean, you show them a show, and people say, well, couldn't have more tits.

Phil: And they're like, oh, more tits, okay, let's write that down, more tits.

Phil: Or if there's like a high brow humor, they'll go, okay, people didn't laugh between the second mark and the second mark.

Phil: Can we have a football to the groin in that section?

Phil: That's focus groups, and that's what kills good media.

Phil: But there's also focus playing where they focus test a game where basically they'll put players of all different levels of experience, and they'll watch them over an eight hour period or however long period, and they'll go, OK, that guy totally didn't see that exit, and he walked around aimlessly for seven minutes.

Phil: We need to signpost that exit.

Phil: And I think that's what Valve does, is that they focus play these games to the nth degree.

Tom: Well, it's a fair distinction.

Tom: But the thing is, as far as I'm aware, Valve focus test their stuff to the nth degree as well.

Tom: You maybe have more knowledge on this subject?

Phil: Yeah, I did not think that's the case.

Tom: Okay, well, that's just from what I've read of game-mule interviews, and bear in mind, I could have just completely misremembered that.

Phil: Well, it could also be that you may have conflated it, but maybe also the author conflates it, because people often do take those two different terms and merge them into one thing.

Phil: But the thing is, you were talking about Half-Life and I think on the one front you had people who were just...

Phil: you had three different groups.

Phil: One was people who were totally enamored with Half-Life to start with, so they're just going to love Half-Life

Phil: Then you had people like me who had heard about Half-Life hadn't played it, was kind of interested, and then was just overwhelmed by the two things, and that was the technical ability of the game in the time.

Phil: It was an overwhelming game in virtue of its technical.

Phil: And then secondly, there was just an immersiveness to it, and I always think back to Half-Life

Phil: I never think of the horrible, sucky levels.

Phil: I always think back to the coast levels, where you could just walk around and basically feel like you're in a real-world setting, and I think that's what people liked about that game.

Phil: So you said you didn't see what people could like about it.

Phil: That's what I liked about it.

Tom: Okay, well, see, the thing is I didn't find the coast levels engaging at all.

Tom: I thought they were absolutely horrible, because here's the thing.

Tom: Okay, I know technically they know what they're doing as far as the visuals are not a concern, but the thing is they do everything so safe.

Tom: It comes across as, yes, this is a believable coastline, right?

Tom: There's nothing that stands out that says, okay, this is something in a game that I shouldn't be taking seriously, right?

Tom: But there's also nothing there that says to me, this is a beach that I should care about or be interested in.

Phil: Well, here's the thing, right?

Phil: And this is what is so wonderful about it, in that when I played the game, I did a typical Phil Fogg-type thing.

Phil: I got my car caught on a...

Phil: I got the car caught on an aspect of the geometry very early into that level, right?

Phil: So I got a car caught on the geometry, and I'm like, OK, well, I guess they want me to walk from here.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So I walked the entire coastal section, like a hitchhiker or itinerant hobo.

Phil: I walked the whole level, right?

Phil: So I created my own favorite part of that game by not just speeding along in my Mad Max Dune Buggy.

Phil: And obviously that made the difficulty much higher because I couldn't just run over people and all the rest of it.

Phil: And I was basically living like a renegade hobo.

Phil: And yes, I made that the best part of the game.

Phil: It's like kind of like in GTA people made their favorite part, most memorable parts of that game by just doing what they wanted to do.

Phil: And so how is Valve to credit for that?

Phil: Well, they could have made it possible not to get out of the car, right?

Phil: They let that option open to the player.

Phil: So when my car got caught on the geometry, I could have just been stuck in the car and then gone, okay, I guess I'm going to have to reload from my last checkpoint.

Phil: So those are my points in defense of Half-Life

Tom: Yeah, well, I accept that, but here's the thing.

Tom: On that exact same level, I'm pretty sure I spent at least one hour wandering around on the beach due to completely fucking up the car on, you know, the section where you've got to drive up, it's right before the asphalt road.

Tom: You've got to drive up a hill and then do a jump or something along those lines.

Tom: Yeah, I flipped the car over, completely fucked it up, and I think at that point I didn't realize I could flip it back over.

Tom: And so I basically just wandered around doing nothing, well, exploring and that sort of thing until I did flip it over.

Tom: And here's the thing, I understand what you're saying, and I'm not saying your experience was in any way invalid, but to me once again, the thing about GTA and whatnot is they make that world something where you can create an interesting story in itself.

Phil: Right, like the time I got up on that parking garage and decided to snipe people in a row.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Half-life to me is not attending to do that to the same degree, and where it is, it does it simply by being completely soulless.

Tom: And when it's not trying to do it, it's trying to be a much more overtly narrative experience.

Tom: And speaking of which, my last final symbol of this safeness is in the way they handle the cutscenes.

Phil: In Left Dead or Half-life?

Tom: In Half-life.

Tom: Left Dead actually does have traditional cutscenes.

Tom: And so in Half-life, now obviously QTEs weren't that popular at the time, but instead of just doing normal cutscenes where they just play the cutscene, right?

Tom: And you've got to watch out.

Tom: They did their famous, oh-so-famous and lauded, amazing deviation of having you be a player-controlled avatar in the scene where you can walk around and do whatever you want.

Phil: So in-game cinematic, and you don't just have to sit there watching it, you can walk around and it changes the volume of the character that you're listening to.

Phil: And it's been copied in most of the game I'm playing right now.

Phil: Resistance still does it.

Phil: Singularity did it.

Tom: It was hugely influential.

Tom: And there are many games that do do this well, and Half-Life is not one of them.

Tom: It deserves the credit for doing this first, not for doing it well, because here's the thing.

Tom: At the time, well, the last thing is, sorry.

Tom: The last thing is, it works so well in something like the brilliant opening scene to Half-Life where you're in the lift, right?

Tom: The monorail-style lift, and you're going into the facility, and you're listening to the speaker, and you're introduced to the environment and the setting and everything, right?

Phil: Right, just like the entry when you go in.

Phil: Just like when you arrive at City right?

Tom: And it works well in City as well, but it is just so crap when, later on in the story, when you're literally standing there, having exposition doled out of you, and the whole time you're just thinking, shut the fuck up.

Tom: If this was an actual cut scene, I could skip this utter mindless bullshit, right?

Phil: But in Half-Life when you have that first scene, I mean, it's when you're meeting the scientist and you're there with the gal and you're in the room.

Phil: Don't they have you doing things like chaining Jonah cartridges and, you know?

Tom: I can't remember.

Phil: I thought they'd give you some minor things to be doing.

Tom: I can't remember, but it would never have lasted like the cut scene because I cannot remember a cut scene where I was not standing around for at least a few minutes.

Phil: Waiting for it to end.

Tom: And, yeah.

Tom: But once again, I mean, they went for, instead of doing this where it is effective, such as the introduction to Half-Life and the introduction to Half-Life, where it is extremely effective to doing this in every scene.

Tom: And that, to me, is exactly the same as using a cut scene because you're not thinking about where is this going, where is this stylistic choice going to be effective.

Tom: You're just thinking, okay, this is how we've got to do it for the entire game, right?

Tom: And to me, it's even more safe than doing a cut scene because everyone is immediately going to shit all over a cut scene much more than this because there is a degree of playing direction.

Tom: So, to me, it perfectly symbolizes valves, focus on not pissing off people rather than doing something good.

Tom: They think, okay, so we've got this good thing that works really well in this scene.

Tom: Now, we don't have the ambition to try and think of what's going to work well elsewhere.

Tom: So we're going to do what everyone else sells, which is make a cut scene.

Tom: But instead of doing a cut scene, we're going to give the player control so they don't shit on us for doing this incredibly annoying thing that messes with the pacing of the game and bores people out of their minds.

Tom: But we're going to get away with it, because we're dickheads with no ambition.

Phil: No, no, no, come on, you can't say that.

Phil: I mean, the other thing, I mean, we can get, in another show, we're going to talk about how to express narrative in the game, right?

Phil: So let's just leave it at that.

Phil: But I don't think it's because they're dickheads.

Phil: Or because they're ambitious.

Phil: Because obviously, look at the body of their work.

Phil: I mean, they're doing stuff that is great.

Phil: Are they safe?

Phil: They're safe.

Phil: They're safe, but they're not ambitious.

Phil: I mean, they are doing stuff.

Phil: No, you're right.

Phil: That's what I'm talking about.

Phil: They're craftsmen, right?

Phil: They're tradesmen.

Phil: And they get stuck into this whole, I totally see what you're saying.

Phil: Not enough art, too much mechanics.

Phil: And then we'll file away for another show.

Tom: I mean, at the end of the day, you can say, right, that basically any Valve game is almost flawless as far as the mechanics are concerned.

Tom: But the thing is, I don't know, that's really not enough for me.

Tom: And they're not just doing it for the mechanics.

Tom: If they were just doing it for the mechanics, I don't see why they would make Half-Life.

Tom: If they were doing it just entirely for the mechanics, why aren't they making something like Doom, right?

Tom: There is a game, if you're making something like Doom, you can live entirely on the mechanics.

Tom: So, well, actually, that's a completely loaded bullshit what I was saying there, because...

Phil: Yes, it is.

Tom: It's so important to Doom, so just scrap that.

Tom: And what were you going to say?

Phil: Well, I was going to say these guys should be making business apps, not games.

Tom: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Tom: Well, it's worth this thing.

Phil: That's where you want...

Phil: Exactly, that's where you want technical soundness, right?

Phil: I mean, and that's the thing.

Phil: They need more...

Phil: I mean, Gabe is from Microsoft.

Phil: This is his history.

Phil: But at the same time, when you look at all these flawed games that are flawed technically, you can't blame gamers for flocking to something that is at minimum mechanically and technically sound.

Tom: It's understandable.

Tom: But now explain to me why exactly it is that Half Life and the like is so lauded for their stories.

Phil: I think that's just ignorance, because the people who are drawn to the technical ability of the game haven't had that much exposure to literature and everything else.

Phil: So it's kind of like the guy who's only seen Shawshank Redemption.

Tom: Which is, by the way, possibly the most sentimental film ever made.

Phil: Yeah, I know.

Phil: And as soon as I said that, I'm like, God, I just insulted so many people.

Phil: But no, that's not what I meant.

Tom: Well, I did, because that film is crap.

Phil: Let's say the only film that you've seen is Happy Gilmore, right?

Phil: You're going to think that's the funniest film ever.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So that's what I'm saying.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Okay, so does that close out your impressions of Left Dead ?

Tom: I believe so.

Tom: Oh, and we've just got to say, though, by the way, Steam has taken them, what, like five years to introduce the ability to choose where you install your game to.

Tom: So perhaps it would be nice if they did actually apply some of their technical nouns to Steam.

Phil: With that, there's been another game that we've been playing, both this week.

Phil: Oh, fuck it.

Phil: Cursed Mountain.

Tom: Or Cursed Mountain.

Phil: Cursed Mountain.

Phil: This is a game for the Wii.

Phil: And this is the first Wii game I've played in years.

Tom: It was also the first Wii game I've played in a long time.

Phil: Now, how did you hear about this game and why did you buy it?

Tom: Well, I heard about it probably on the VG press, though possibly just in general, because as I'm sure you're aware, I was and still am a huge fan of the Wii.

Tom: So I basically followed every game that was released.

Tom: And while you might say that means that was pretty easy to do, there were actually quite a lot of random games released for it.

Tom: And the reason I bought it was I saw it on eBay for I think $or $including postage.

Phil: Well, what was great about the Wii was that not only did it have the first party Nintendo stuff, which I'm not a particular fan of the first party Nintendo stuff, other than like Animal Crossing and WarioWare.

Phil: But the great thing about the Wii is that its exclusives were true exclusives.

Phil: They were the most creative games of the seventh generation.

Tom: Yeah, without a doubt.

Phil: It beats everything on the PC, beats everything on beats everything on PS

Phil: Now in the last two years, we've seen some really great independent games come up on all those three consoles or these platforms.

Phil: You know, independent games like Spelunky and things like that.

Phil: That was only towards the end of this generation.

Phil: Towards the very end.

Phil: But up until that point, the Wii was the best place for unique third party games to appear.

Phil: Games that never appeared on the PC and never appeared on any other format.

Phil: And Cursed Mountain is one of those games.

Phil: It's a truly unique game.

Phil: Like Little King's Story or Dead Space Extraction.

Phil: Any of these kinds of games that really made good use of the format and the install base.

Phil: So with that, I'm going to let you talk a little bit about it because I think you'll probably organize your thoughts a bit more.

Phil: I've only played about half the game, so I'm going to let you take over here.

Tom: Yep, I played through the whole thing.

Tom: And I'll start off with the other interesting thing about it is that it was developed by different companies across Europe and I believe in a few other places possibly out of Europe.

Tom: And so apart from those companies that were officially working on it, they must have also outsourced some other people because in the exact same IGN article that says this, they also then go on to say that it was created with people in companies across unique locations enforcing different countries.

Tom: So that's a rather different way to develop a game.

Tom: I'm not sure that there have been many games developed with anywhere near that amount of developers.

Phil: If I could interject, I mean a game like Assassin's Creed has people working on it.

Phil: Cursed Mountain has people working on it.

Phil: And if I could just jump ahead, in playing this game, this is a very low-budget game.

Phil: There is only one character that appears on the screen at any time, other than the enemies that he faces.

Phil: And all of the cutscenes are still animations.

Tom: They're the comic book style with vocals on at the same time.

Phil: Yeah, basically PowerPoint presentations.

Phil: I mean, this is a game with scant production values.

Phil: So the fact that it was created by people in companies, I'm thinking there's some investment going on here, some sort of tax reward.

Tom: Yeah, somewhat bog of the mind.

Tom: If they did work on it though, given the very low-budget nature of the game, for a project of this size, you have to say outclasses people working on something like Assassin's Creed if they were actually developing it and it wasn't all just some great tax reward, of course.

Phil: You know, what this reminds me of is like, Yakuza was supposedly the most expensive video game that had been developed to that point.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And if you look at the production values of it, obviously there's a lot going on, but there's still not that much going on.

Phil: And I have to wonder how much of that money went over to the actual Yakuza.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Phil: And Sega's stock was like trading...

Tom: Did you say Yakuza or ?

Phil: Yakuza

Tom: Because I was thinking Yakuza looked absolutely incredible.

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom: But Yakuza that's just bizarre.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And you wonder where the money went.

Phil: And then that was the one where Sega had spent so much money on Yakuza and their stock tanked to the point that the stock was trading lower than a Japanese dairy company that was caught selling spoiled milk.

Phil: Right?

Phil: And I got to wonder that maybe the money didn't end up entirely in the game.

Phil: That's just bizarre.

Phil: Because when I play Cursed Mountain, low budget comes to mind.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Not people.

Tom: Well, the other thing is that these people, they are clearly all small developers.

Tom: I mean, in the credits, you look up the art guy.

Tom: It's not actually an art guy as far as I could tell from his blog.

Tom: It's actually a guy that goes around photographing Buddhist paintings in Tibet, right?

Tom: So as far as I can see, they didn't actually get someone to do the Tibetan paintings for them, but used his photos and scanned them.

Phil: Their PR may be just a little bit too good for them here, because looking at the math, you've got companies, listeners at home, follow along, you've got companies in quote, unique locations.

Tom: So one is, at least one is in two locations.

Phil: Or one is not a company.

Phil: In different countries.

Phil: So companies in locations in companies.

Phil: When did this turn into like a math problem to try and pass to get into university?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: Okay, Fools, you've got a video game.

Phil: It was created by people in companies across unique locations in different countries.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: How many copies did it sell?

Tom: I guess very few.

Phil: Well, let me ask you this question.

Phil: What percentage of the time did the controls work?

Tom: Well, the answer to that is I would say probably about two-thirds of the time.

Phil: You mean the responsive Wiimote controls?

Tom: Two-thirds of the time is not responsive Wiimote controls.

Tom: That is bad responsive Wiimote controls.

Phil: I know one of our guest hosts, Dave Vader, he also had trouble with the controls in this game.

Phil: I had no problem with the controls in this game.

Tom: But that's because you only played the first half.

Phil: I only played the first half.

Tom: In the second half, and here's the thing, I would have said to you that the problem with the controls is once the thing starts getting more intense, as it does in the second half of the game, you're more likely to fuck up the motions, right?

Phil: Well, it has this joust-type movement, right?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: It makes it look like you're meant to be pushing the Wii Remote up as opposed to forwards.

Phil: You're supposed to be...

Phil: Yeah, they put a sign on the screen that shows you that the Wii's supposed to be going up, but what they really mean is you're supposed to be taking both the Nunchuck and the remote and pushing it forward to the screen and then up.

Phil: So forward and up, that's what they mean, but all they show you is to elevate it.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Is that the problem that you were having?

Tom: No, no, and here's the thing, as I was about to say.

Tom: The first half of the game, it took me a while to figure that one out.

Tom: Then I did it and it was fine, okay?

Tom: So then in the second half of the game, the battles start to get more intense and you've got to do so many more of them that the margin that...

Tom: you're going to percentage-wise fail more.

Tom: Now, the thing is, at this stage where like % of the time or % of the time, it was just fucking up completely.

Tom: I thought I'd do some experimenting because the battles are so easy, you can basically just fuck around in them anyway.

Tom: So what I did was I attempted to do each control a multiple...

Tom: a multitude of different ways, at different speeds and so on and so forth.

Tom: And I could not come up with a single motion that actually worked % of the time.

Tom: So my only conclusion as to why I had no troubles in the first half of the game was not due to the intensity because the battles aren't really all that intense, unless you make them intense yourself.

Tom: You can just wander around doing whatever the hell you want.

Tom: So after the experiment I came to the conclusion that the only reason I did not come across more failed control attempts earlier on in the game was simply because there were less of them, because there's not really a huge amount of combat in the game either.

Phil: No, there's not.

Phil: And there's not a lot of anything in the game.

Phil: It's mostly just walking about.

Tom: Well, it is, basically.

Tom: But that's the thing I found so enjoyable about it is because the setting is excellent.

Tom: It's basically set in Tibet, and they include lots and lots of Tibetan and Buddhist culture to a greater degree than you would in a lot of games.

Tom: And it's not like they're running some thesis on Tibetan culture.

Tom: And it is quite exploitive, in a sense.

Tom: But it's done to the degree where it has a facade of authenticity.

Tom: So you can get into it and enjoy it, right?

Phil: No, not right.

Phil: I mean, all they have is Tibetan prayer flags, okay?

Phil: I mean, what's so uniquely Tibetan about it?

Phil: They have these Tibetan prayer flags up everywhere, as seen in Uncharted

Phil: But there's nothing beyond that, really.

Tom: There is.

Tom: They've got all the Tibetan paintings.

Tom: They've got all the Rand Buddhist mythology in it.

Tom: I don't know, that seems enough for me.

Tom: You don't think so?

Phil: Where's the yak?

Tom: The yak, that is true.

Tom: That is true.

Tom: But that's my point.

Tom: It didn't go into a huge amount of detail, but it did enough for me because the story to me comes across as basically a s pulp style story, right?

Tom: So what do they do?

Tom: They don't go into any great detail of the culture that they're exploiting, but they take enough of it to give it a...

Phil: Flavor.

Tom: Yeah, to give what is basically a western style story a unique flavor to it, right?

Phil: It's like a Chinese food restaurant.

Phil: It's enough to say, yeah, yeah, it's not hamburgers and sandwiches.

Phil: It's somewhat Chinese.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: I mean, the game reminded me a fair amount of the PlayStation game Disaster Report, which was a similar type thing where you were a singular character walking around in an isolated environment post an earthquake.

Phil: And you have to basically survive.

Phil: So in that case, it is a survival horror game.

Phil: And this game, I give you a hard time about it, but really it does...

Phil: We should probably explain that this is a game where a mountain climber is in Nepal or somewhere, Tibet, whatever, and he's trying to find his brother, who is a famous mountain climber, who disappeared without a trace.

Tom: Both of them are famous mountain climbers.

Phil: They're both famous, and he's looking for his lost famous mountain climber brother.

Phil: Who is a complete and utter dickhead.

Phil: And there's some mystical type things about it.

Phil: So as he gets closer to where his brother disappeared, he finds these empty villages, and there's some paranormal type activity going on.

Phil: And also, all the humans he interacts with, I guess you'd say are pretty creepy.

Tom: No, I wouldn't even say they're creepy, because this is the most bizarre thing about the game to me, and I know if you agree with this.

Tom: This was possibly the least scary game I've ever played in my entire life.

Tom: I mean, there's nothing...

Phil: What about Clonoa?

Tom: I've played, no, I mean, at times in Clonoa, no, actually, because Clonoa is incredibly easy.

Tom: I was going to say, because even in a game that there's nothing scary about it whatsoever, at least you might get a fright when you've been trying so hard and then you fuck something up, right?

Phil: Like in Nintendogs when you accidentally don't feed them for four years?

Tom: Yep, exactly.

Tom: But no, Clonoa was incredibly easy.

Tom: So let's say it's one of the least scary games I've ever played in my entire life.

Tom: There is absolutely nothing creepy about the atmosphere whatsoever.

Tom: The enemies aren't scary.

Tom: There's no jump scares.

Tom: It's just...

Tom: It doesn't even feel in many ways like they were trying to make a survival horror game.

Tom: Though presumably they were.

Phil: Who knows?

Phil: I didn't see any creative...

Phil: You know, overriding creative arc on this whatsoever.

Phil: It just seemed like the cheapest possible game they could make with a remote, with some adult themes.

Tom: I don't know.

Tom: Because once again, I think this completely taps into this old style of pulp fiction.

Tom: Especially...

Tom: Go on.

Phil: I was going to say, you say it's like a s pulp fiction.

Phil: I think it's like an s choose your own adventure.

Phil: Right down to the cover, I mean, it just looks like a choose your own adventure book and it plays like it as well.

Phil: There's nothing particularly scary, offensive or anything.

Phil: It's just an interactive piece of like Lassie like fiction.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: You know, where there's no consequences, there's no, you know, tremendously great implications for what you're doing.

Phil: It's just dull.

Phil: It's a dull game.

Tom: I don't know, because once again, I don't know, I don't think it's dull.

Tom: I think they do enough with the setting to make it interesting despite the fact that you are basically literally just walking through the snow.

Tom: Well, the other thing is, it is, I will agree, it's very dull, but what I mean is the dullness itself is enjoyable.

Tom: How many games are there where you get to climb a mountain?

Phil: So like you're thinking like Shadows of the Colossus type thing where you're riding through the wilderness on a horse for a long period of time?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I mean it's...

Phil: I mean there's something to it.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: It's a meditative sort of, you know, experience.

Tom: You're just literally basically just strolling through the snow for ten hours, but that in itself can be so enjoyable.

Phil: When I made this argument like half an hour ago, about a half-life too, what I loved most about walking up the coastal thing was like looking at the different kinds of moss, and you know, that was meditative to me.

Tom: Yeah, and as I said on that was that your experience was perfectly fine on that.

Phil: Okay, well...

Tom: So I covered myself well.

Phil: But in this game though, the graphics were so poor.

Phil: I mean, this was like a low-res Eternal Darkness.

Phil: This was worse graphics than what the GameCube was capable of.

Tom: Yeah, it doesn't even look worse than Eternal Darkness though.

Phil: I was playing it on HDTV, but I was playing it at a -ratio, and I had tuned it so that as if it were on an SDTV, it would look bloody terrible.

Tom: Yeah, I was playing it on p widescreen, on Ato Ap television, and it looks pretty damn bad even if you're not playing in HD.

Phil: Okay, so what notable things do you have left to say about this before we move on to the next game?

Tom: Here's the other thing about the appeal is...

Tom: The other thing about horror and this style of storytelling is part of the enjoyment is that it is bad.

Tom: You don't go into something like this hoping for it to be good, and this is the case in a huge amount of horror media, right?

Tom: You go into it specifically because it is, to a great degree, very poorly done, right?

Phil: Right, yeah, I mean, that's true of motion pictures as well.

Phil: I mean, the very best horror films are pretty poorly done.

Tom: Yeah, and while I'm not...

Tom: This certainly wouldn't qualify as one of the best horror films, horror games, but it has that whole aesthetic to it of badness while also going with something unique for the medium, because I can't think of many games that use Buddhist culture and Tibetan culture, and once again, I'm not saying it does it to a particularly high degree, but it does enough to flavor it like this, and also where you basically literally get to climb a mountain from the very bottom of it to the top with a very degree of progression to it.

Tom: So to me, it did enough to be a very enjoyable experience.

Tom: And the other thing is because it was so incredibly easy and reasonably dull, it was so incredibly relaxing to play.

Tom: And at the end, due to the large amounts of battles that you ended up fighting, you had to do with a fair bit of motion control stuff, and I just do not comprehend how they managed to keep it being so relaxing, where you're basically playing Wii boxing, and yet it is incredibly relaxing.

Phil: Well, there's a particular boss battle in this game, which is bloody awful.

Phil: The one that required you basically around the time I quit, toward the end of the sixth level, where you've got to joust this guy and stab him.

Phil: I mean, that's basically where I said, okay, what am I doing with my life?

Tom: None of the bosses were memorable at all whatsoever anyway.

Phil: Nothing was memorable about this game, other than it reminded me favorably of Disaster Report for the PlayStation which is an excellent, excellent game.

Tom: Well, I would say a lot was memorable about it, but certainly wasn't a physically good game.

Phil: And I can see why people who had a Wii exclusively would have liked this game, because I mean, it's certainly divergent from much of the subject matter that was available on the Wii.

Phil: And yeah, I mean, if I only had a Wii and access to this game, I probably would have put it on the same level as an Eternal Darkness type game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, I mean, in talking about this, we've talked, you know, this is our horror special.

Phil: We've talked about Deadly Premonition, we've talked about Left Dead, you know, and Cursed Mountain or Cursed Mountain.

Phil: I mean, some of these games are gory.

Phil: Some of these games are suspenseful.

Phil: Some of these games are paranormal, like as in Deadly Premonition.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: What is it about horror that you think translates so well to the video game format?

Tom: Well, I would say the only thing in particular that really translates well to it would be setting, because in a video game, it's very easy to immediately get a sense of setting, because you're putting the player literally in an environment.

Tom: And apart from that, honestly, I don't really think there's much that gaming does much better in horror, because even...

Tom: I don't really think that the interactivity gives you that much more, because in film or literature, horror doesn't need to be applied to yourself, because people are empathetic, right?

Tom: So if there's something horrific happening to someone else, you can have just a strong A reaction to it, as if it is to yourself.

Tom: So I don't think interactivity provides anything, but due to the nature of games, it's very easy to provide a really good sense of uneasiness and creepiness within the setting itself.

Phil: Well, I think also that there are two things that video games are able to provoke.

Phil: One is Vertigo, right?

Phil: I mean, do I need to expand on that?

Phil: We've all experienced Vertigo in a video game, be it skydiving in Grand Theft Auto or something as simple as MX versus ATV, where you have that sense where your stomach is skipping a bit.

Phil: And then in horror games, I think it's so effective because unlike in a movie, you're in control and you're waiting for it, and yet something can happen and it completely catches you off guard.

Tom: But the same thing happens in films, does it not?

Tom: And you can very easily...

Tom: At least there's a sense of vertigo in film as well.

Tom: That's a very easy thing to do in a visual medium.

Tom: I'm not sure...

Phil: Well, that's not...

Phil: Yeah, that's not something I can recall having occurred.

Phil: I can't think of a movie of hand that did that.

Phil: Not wanting to put you on a spot here if you can come up with one.

Tom: I can't really think of a game that has given me a sense of vertigo either, so...

Phil: Well, clearly, we're floundering here.

Phil: It's a shame that we don't have someone who's studied the entire history of, you know, horror gaming with us.

Phil: Oh, hang on.

Phil: What's this?

Tom: They would have a lot for discussion.

Phil: Yeah, they would, but you know what?

Phil: It looks like someone has just called in to the gameunder.net head force.

Phil: Yeah, I know.

Phil: We set up this now.

Phil: We put it on the internet.

Phil: No one's called it before.

Rob: I've been listening live the entire time, guys.

Phil: I'm just going to answer it.

Phil: Here we go.

Phil: I'm going to pick up the phone now.

Phil: You guys are both ruining the conceit.

Phil: We're joined by Rob Lozak from Power Level Marketing.

Phil: Rob, we've talked before...

Phil: Is that like power lifting?

Rob: No, no, it's power level.

Rob: It's a really, really big construction tool.

Phil: It's taking power to a whole new level of marketing.

Phil: Rob, we've talked before, and you've been a great friend of the podcast before, but Rob is an expert in the field of horror gaming and has spoken at horror conventions such as Screamfest, which goes without saying, it's now been renamed Spooky Empire's Ultimate Horror Weekend.

Phil: I'm assuming...

Phil: I like that name.

Phil: Spooky Empire's Ultimate Horror Weekend?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: It sounds like something that would star...

Phil: It sounds like something that would star Chevy Chase.

Tom: Yeah, but that's awesome.

Tom: I mean, imagine Chevy Chase in a horror film.

Rob: I think he's been in a couple, as a matter of fact.

Rob: Very bad ones, though, but then that kind of goes without saying for most of Chevy Chase's movies, so...

Tom: So you're just sort of status as an expert right then and there.

Phil: I'm going to tell you guys an anecdote, and I promise this will be under seconds.

Phil: The first time my parents left me at home alone in Australia, we only had two TV stations, and there was a movie on which was the Amityville Horror, right?

Phil: So I'm nine years old, and I see this movie on, it's American, and it has this station wagon in it that is a Woody, right?

Phil: And I'm like, oh, this is like National Lampoon's holiday.

Phil: This will be fun.

Phil: I'll watch this movie.

Phil: And so I'm staying up by myself at home alone at age nine watching the Amityville Horror, all on the basis of seeing this vehicle and thinking that this is going to be a comedy.

Phil: And from that point on, I did not experience any other horror media for several years, and we'll get into that later in the podcast, but basically bringing Chevy Chase back into the argument.

Phil: That's how my whole horror experience started.

Phil: So we were just talking, Rob, Tom and I, about what defines a horror game, right?

Phil: Because, I mean, it can be many different things.

Phil: It can be the subject matter, like has it got supernatural elements?

Phil: Is it just gore?

Phil: Is it shock?

Phil: Is it monster closets?

Phil: Or is it like suspense and release?

Phil: You know, the kind of things you find in Silent Hill.

Phil: So before we have you elaborate...

Tom: Is it a pornography film that you're thinking of that?

Phil: It could be.

Phil: So what's your take on that, Rob, before you launch into the history of horror video games?

Rob: Well, you know, as far as horror goes, really it's anything that goes for a reaction to get you to jump, to scare you or to disturb you.

Rob: Now, that can be achieved through, you know, a lot of different ways, whether, you know, it's like you said, suspense, gore, just a straight up good scare.

Rob: But as long as you get that same kind of adrenaline rush or feeling of dread, you know, that's, at that point, you can go ahead and say, yeah, this is horror.

Rob: It's achieved that, so, you know, I don't have too hard and fast of a definition of it, but basically, if you get that reaction, if you get that fear, the dread, you're dealing with horror in one way or another.

Tom: So basically, it horrifies you.

Rob: Yeah, that's, well, it's not even horrified sometimes, even just a simple scare, you know, that's, because, you know, going back to Chevy Chase movies, I've seen Funny Farm, Funny Farm, horrified.

Rob: And there was no element of horror in that.

Tom: Well, except for the thought of him masturbating into the garden to plant his seed.

Tom: Oh.

Rob: Oh.

Phil: So moving along, I mean, maybe you can just, how did all of this start?

Phil: I mean, in the interactive arts, how did horror gaming come about?

Rob: All right, well, you know, if you go back to the very early years of gaming, horror has been a part of it.

Rob: Now, let's go back to the Magnavox Odyssey.

Rob: That was the first home console.

Rob: And that was early s.

Rob: And one of the games that came out for it was called Haunted House.

Rob: Now, you know, this is a real crude game like everything else back then.

Rob: And Haunted House really wasn't much more than a very, I'd like to say, a very basic version of hide and seek.

Rob: The way it worked was you had, it was for two people to play.

Rob: And the first player would hide his character somewhere on a screen.

Rob: And then they would place a, it was a plastic overlay, a plastic sheet that you would put on top of the TV.

Rob: It was a clear plastic sheet, but on the middle of this sheet is a, it's like a stereotypical haunted house.

Rob: The kind of thing you would see, you know, on cheap decorations for Halloween, kind of looked like the Bates house in Psycho, if you need more of a reference point than that.

Rob: And so...

Tom: In Magnavox graphics, though?

Rob: No, no, no, this isn't in Magnavox graphics.

Rob: This is actually a piece of art on a plastic...

Rob: A plastic thing that you would, it was actually the first worthless video game accessory you could never use for another game.

Rob: And you could just stick this on the top of your TV screen, and now, you know, player one is hidden somewhere in the house.

Rob: And player two has to find him.

Rob: And there's a few windows and things you can kind of look through.

Rob: That's the game.

Rob: So, you know, people will say, is that horror?

Rob: Well, you know what?

Rob: At the same time, Pong was considered a sports game.

Rob: So if Pong can be a sports game, this could be a horror game.

Phil: Right.

Rob: And that's, yeah.

Phil: It doesn't make you wish that the three of us were like...

Tom: Alive back then?

Tom: That's not even a game.

Tom: Couldn't you feasibly just play this without a television?

Tom: Just take the sheet of paper, put it on a table with a cutout character beneath it?

Rob: Well, yes, but how could you use a controller?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars either.

Rob: No.

Tom: You use magnets beneath the table, right?

Tom: You stick a magnet underneath the character cutout.

Tom: You see what I'm saying?

Phil: If you're going to waste Alissa's time with this, then I'll tell this useless anecdote.

Phil: And that is the only time...

Phil: You guys know I'm a game collector.

Phil: And the only time I ever saw a Magnavox Odyssey was very...

Phil: When it's in the nascent stages of collecting, I was at a swap meet or flea market, as some people call them.

Phil: I saw a Magnavox Odyssey with tons of these like plastic sheets with it, you know?

Phil: And I was like, oh, that's interesting, but I don't want to buy that today.

Phil: And I never saw one ever again in the wild.

Rob: Well, you know, just to, you know, worthless, worthless fact again, there were only Magnavox Odysseys ever.

Rob: I don't know about you, but that's how many people owned them.

Rob: So it was, yeah, there were, I mean, honestly, more people bought a Wii U in the last three months than ever owned the Magnavox Odyssey.

Phil: The Wii U sales are in line with Magnavox Odyssey sales at the five-month point.

Tom: So that's the other takeaway.

Rob: Nintendo needs us as their PR department.

Rob: In the last three months, it's sold more than the Magnavox Odyssey.

Phil: Did this game at all though provide any of the visceral response of horror, or was it just the setting?

Rob: It was just the setting.

Rob: They decided they were going to put a haunted house as the setting for the game.

Rob: That's it.

Rob: There was no visceral.

Rob: Well, I mean, I'm not going to say that.

Rob: I don't know.

Rob: I was not playing games in

Rob: There could have been people who, when they found it, they said boo and scared their friends.

Rob: I don't know.

Rob: But it's a crude horror game, but I still say it's called Haunted House good enough for me.

Tom: Yeah, so we're basing the fact that it's horror simply on the title.

Rob: Sometimes that's all it takes.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: But how do we develop from there?

Phil: Where do we go from the Magnavox on?

Rob: There's not a whole lot of innovations over the next even years, but really the next things that kind of help evolve the game start coming along around

Rob: And what you're starting to see is you have the Atari out there.

Rob: You have some PC games that are finally starting to mature a little bit.

Rob: I mean, prior to this, there are other horror games on the PC, but they're exclusively text adventures.

Rob: You know, you just, here's your story.

Rob: You type in your next, you know, what you're going to do, and then, you know, the game responds in like.

Rob: So really nothing notable, but then a few things start to change.

Rob: And again, is the next big date I like to point out.

Rob: And there's a game on the PC that is called Mystery House.

Rob: Now, Mystery House is really notable for a dozen different reasons.

Rob: It's actually one of those games that is kind of, you know, if you look at the most important games in history, Mystery House is up there, even if most people aren't real familiar with it.

Rob: The game, again, came out in and it's developed by a company called Online Systems.

Rob: Who are they?

Rob: Well, later they turn into Sierra Online, and that's Roberta Williams' company.

Rob: And if you don't know who she is, shame on you.

Rob: She's the first lady of video game development.

Rob: Her baby series that everyone knows, King's Quest.

Rob: That was, you know, the big series that she is very well known for.

Rob: But Mystery House was the first adventure game she made.

Rob: And another thing that makes it really important is that it was one of the first adventure games to actually use graphics.

Rob: Prior to that, almost everything is just text based.

Rob: And she decided, well, you know what?

Rob: These adventure games are fun, but they would be a lot better if people just put graphics in them.

Rob: And so they made a game with graphics.

Rob: And it got a huge response.

Rob: This game, brace yourselves, everyone, sold over copies.

Phil: I think I've sold over copies.

Phil: And I don't even have a game.

Rob: We laugh about it, but this is like a Call of Duty number in on PC.

Rob: This is insane.

Tom: She was a billionaire after this.

Phil: And this is a game that has not even vector graphics.

Phil: This is basically line drawings that you would have made with a, not a TRS-but maybe something slightly ahead of that.

Phil: I mean, from our perspective today, these are very basic games, but they were evocative.

Phil: And you can tell from games like The Walking Dead, it doesn't have to be that technologically advanced.

Phil: And actually, the two games have a lot in common, in that they were basically interactive -invention type games with just a little bit of visual flash.

Phil: And for it to sell over copies back then, you've got to wonder, you know, in I mean, piracy was absolutely rampant, way more than it is today.

Rob: No, you just copied discs and gave them to your friends.

Phil: And it wasn't even a...

Phil: You didn't even think it was piracy.

Phil: It wasn't even a thought.

Phil: It was just like, oh, here, I have this game.

Phil: You can have it too.

Rob: It was equivalent of taking the song off the radio when you just recorded it, you know?

Rob: No harm, no foul.

Rob: It was a simple idea.

Rob: Exactly.

Rob: Now, one other little kind of fun note on this is the game that she made, this Mystery House, this is actually based on an Agatha Christie story called And Then There Were None.

Rob: years later, an Agatha Christie game called And Then There Were None showed up on the Wii.

Rob: Same story.

Rob: I mean, that story actually became very iconic in horror, suspense movies, and it got used over and over and over.

Rob: In fact, Roberta Williams made another game years later called The Colonel's Bequest in about

Rob: And again, it was the same, almost same premise.

Rob: It was just, you know, a much more full, rich game because, you know, another years of improvements had been made to PC games at the time.

Rob: So another...

Phil: And that's the story of gaming anyway, right?

Phil: I mean, everything is...

Tom: Ripping off Agatha Christie.

Tom: Right.

Phil: I mean, when I was playing Gears of War, I'm like, come on, not again.

Tom: It was the Lotus that did it.

Phil: Where do we go from there?

Tom: I've still got a question here, so going by the screenshot, this is effectively a text adventure just with graphics, right?

Phil: Mm-hmm.

Tom: Correct.

Tom: So far, notice a bit of a pattern.

Tom: You basically just dismissed a long history of horror text adventure games, right?

Tom: And you then picked immediately Mystery House, following directly from Haunted House.

Tom: Can you see the connection?

Rob: House is very scary back in the day.

Phil: Homes are scary.

Phil: They're full of electricity and water and cat doors.

Phil: I mean...

Rob: Bits of sharp glass and you drop something.

Tom: I don't know why we don't live outside.

Tom: It will probably be safer.

Rob: Okay, well, that ends up being Mystery House, the mystery adventure game, that ends up being one of the staples for horror for a long time.

Rob: For the next to years, that's actually very much a game that gets or a type of game that is used over and over in the horror field.

Rob: The next one that you'll start to see a lot of horror games show up, the next kind of genre is the shooter.

Rob: A lot of the idea of, okay, you're being attacked by something without a gun and start shooting it, that ends up being reused over and over in games like Area

Rob: The first big note of this though is a really god-awful game called Chiller.

Rob: And Chiller showed up in

Rob: And I'm pretty sure the conversation for making the game went something like this.

Rob: Like, have you seen these light gun games?

Rob: I want one, but I don't want it to be really hard.

Rob: In fact, don't let anything move.

Rob: Just give me a still screen and let me just shoot.

Rob: I can't have anything move though because I won't be able to hit it.

Rob: And let's make it really gruesome and, you know, let's be as controversial as we can.

Rob: And again, don't let anything move.

Rob: Make it really easy for me because I suck at these games.

Rob: And thus, Chiller is born.

Rob: And it's a really awful shooter.

Rob: Basically, it's just a bunch of different scenes of people being tortured.

Rob: They're in Iron Maidens, they're locked up in chains, and you just shoot the screen over about a two-minute length of time.

Tom: Are you shooting the people that are being tortured?

Rob: Yes.

Rob: Yes, you are.

Tom: This is adding insult to injury.

Rob: It really is.

Rob: And at one point, there's a baby stroller that shows up, and you can shoot the baby if you want.

Rob: The game was pretty foul on every level, despite how old it was.

Tom: I've actually got an idea here, what they should have done if they wanted to be really controversial.

Tom: You're shooting people that are being tortured, rename it Mercy Killing, and make it about euthanasia.

Phil: Weren't they the guys that made Death Race or Carmageddon or whatever?

Phil: Now, did this actually use a light gun, or were you using a controller to move around?

Rob: The arcade edition did actually have a light gun in some versions of it.

Rob: When it ends up happening with this game is that it was considered really foul at the time.

Rob: So, it wasn't allowed in arcades in the US, in Europe, in Australia.

Rob: The only place it really showed up were like in third world countries, and that's not a joke.

Rob: And this game was actually very popular in those third world countries.

Tom: Because third world countries are evil.

Rob: I think that's understood.

Phil: So, this was kind of like Operation Wolf, which is basically where you're shooting the guys on the screen.

Phil: It's like Duck Hunt or anything else.

Rob: Operation Wolf actually had the decency to move the screen very slowly, if I recall.

Rob: This was just static, man.

Rob: Just didn't move.

Rob: Now, funnily enough, or humorously enough, this game does show up on the Nintendo a couple years, or the NES a couple years later.

Rob: It's an unlicensed game, one of those games that did not have the Nintendo seal of approval.

Phil: Like Bible Adventures.

Rob: Like Bible Adventures, like Captain Comic.

Rob: There were several notable games that are just all awful.

Rob: They made a few changes to get it accepted, just by American standards, and they started saying, no, no, these people are actually demons.

Rob: They're actually demons who are taking on human form.

Rob: So if you look at the instruction manual, that's what it says.

Phil: You know, we laugh at that, but then when you look at most first person shooters, most first person shooters in the current generation, they'll either cover the faces of the people who are fighting you with bandanas, I mean they'll make them monsters or aliens or, you know what I'm saying?

Phil: I mean, there is this effort.

Phil: Or Arabs.

Phil: Or Arabs.

Phil: I mean, there is this separation.

Phil: There is this separation, you know, that you're not actually committing violence against people like the people you know at Target.

Phil: Do you think we'll ever get to that point, or do you think that's just too much for people to handle?

Rob: I think people could handle it just fine, but we have too many, you know, the ESRB in America.

Rob: They don't let anything really gruesome get through, and we'll talk about that later, because there was a very notable game on the Wii in the couple of early years of the Wii that was exactly what you were saying.

Rob: It was a very visceral game, so much so that it was banned virtually everywhere.

Rob: It's actually, I'd say, one of the most controversial games of the last ten years.

Rob: And, you know, I've played through it since.

Rob: I don't think it was a great game.

Rob: It wasn't terrible, but even with the changes, even if it were more gruesome than it was, I don't think it would have been so bad that people couldn't have handled it.

Rob: But violence in video games that's that visceral still bothers enough people that, you know, retailers won't sell it.

Rob: So that's what gamers, or what developers just have.

Rob: They've kind of come to grips with it.

Rob: They've come to terms with it.

Rob: You know, you make a game that graphic, you're going to have to find your own way to distribute it, which is a possibility now.

Rob: It's a lot easier to distribute a game now, even than it was five years ago.

Tom: And then there's Soldier of Fortune.

Rob: Are we referring to Soldier of Fortune magazine as a way to sell games?

Tom: No, The Game, The Game.

Tom: He was asking about gore, right?

Tom: And he moved into it from first person shooter.

Tom: So the first thing that came to mind for me was not a horror game, but Soldier of Fortune.

Phil: I'm not familiar with this.

Phil: I'm assuming Rob isn't either.

Tom: Are you serious?

Tom: You've never heard of Soldier of Fortune?

Phil: Only the magazine of which I subscribe.

Tom: It was a huge controversy when it came out.

Rob: Truth be told, when I read my issues of Soldier of Fortune, I'm only there to hire mercenaries.

Tom: I might have to hire one to kill the both of you for not knowing about Soldier of Fortune.

Phil: So was it extremely violent?

Tom: They basically had a whole gameplay system based around the gore.

Tom: So you would be shooting off the arms of people to stop them shooting you and that sort of thing.

Rob: Where did this game come out?

Rob: What did it come out on?

Tom: It came out on PC.

Tom: I'm not sure if it was ported to consoles.

Tom: I think it was eventually.

Tom: It came out in and it was a sequel that was ported to Xbox and the like.

Tom: And it was developed, by the way, by Raven Software.

Tom: So it had a good pedigree kind of.

Tom: Yeah, and was actually quite a good game.

Phil: But I mean, it really does come down to, maybe we can just divert before we go into the -bit era, is that in looking at the visuals, or rather in terms of gore, what part does gore play?

Phil: Can it get to a point where it's just too much?

Phil: And I'm thinking of games like the Splatterhouse Revival that came out just a couple of years ago for the HD systems.

Rob: Well, gore is the easiest thing to emulate.

Rob: It's not necessarily the scariest thing.

Phil: Though.

Phil: It's kind of like Dead or Alive extreme volleyball, right?

Rob: Sure.

Phil: It's easy to depict sexually attractive women in bikinis, but that doesn't make it sexy.

Tom: So what you're saying is that the characters in Dead or Alive extreme volleyball are sexually attractive to you?

Phil: No, what I'm saying is you can take all the characteristics of what people typically think are sexually interesting, but it's not necessarily erotic, okay?

Phil: So I have Dead or Alive extreme volleyball.

Phil: It doesn't matter how I got it, but I have it from a guy.

Tom: You got it in some back alley somewhere.

Phil: And after I wiped it off, I played it.

Phil: All Rumble Roses, for example.

Phil: And I play these games because I'm like, okay, this is going to be pretty cool.

Phil: I like playing video games.

Phil: I like women.

Phil: I like being aroused, so let's see what this is about.

Phil: But you're playing it and you're like, actually, this isn't very erotic, actually.

Phil: I think this is something that horror games deal with and that there are things that you can put up on the screen and it's not necessarily going to be scary.

Phil: It's not necessarily going to be horrifying.

Phil: It's not even going to gross you out.

Phil: Sometimes it's just a spectacle of the thing.

Tom: Well, I think the first thing you've got to do is separate gore from realism because they're not the same thing.

Tom: And the vast majority of the depictions of gore in video games are incredibly unrealistic.

Tom: So, yeah, if a game was to depict gore realistically, then it could easily be too much for people to take.

Tom: But the purpose of depicting gore is for entertainment.

Tom: And not many people go to Live Leak regularly to be entertained, right?

Tom: There's, of course, a morbid curiosity with going to places like that.

Tom: But that's not the main motivation.

Tom: Entertainment is not the motivation.

Rob: The -bit era, let's talk about that as we progress through our journey of the history of horror video games.

Rob: Now, one of the things that, as I've said before, there were already two kind of areas where you see a lot of horror games pop up, and that's the mystery adventure genre, shooting games.

Rob: And then as the -bit era really comes into play, we start seeing two more areas where they've always been around, but they really start to come to prominence.

Rob: The first is licensed games, especially once the NES hits.

Rob: And now you start seeing every horror movie that was ever around is getting its own video game.

Rob: Before all this, there actually was a John Carpenter's Halloween game on the Atari but that was about it.

Rob: When the NES shows up, we get a Friday the th.

Rob: There is a Nightmare on Elm Street, the classic Jaws that everyone loves.

Rob: Fester's Quest, are we all fans of Fester's Quest?

Phil: Yes.

Rob: Fantastic game.

Rob: That ends up being a really big area for horror games.

Rob: They just take those classic horror stories and put them onto a cartridge.

Rob: Most of the time, there is nothing scary about them.

Rob: It's just the name.

Rob: There wasn't anything real graphic in these games either, because they are primarily aimed at a younger audience.

Rob: But again, they are using the horror license.

Tom: Oh, the children who love Friday the th.

Rob: There is plenty of them.

Rob: Yeah.

Phil: Well, I actually played Nightmare on Elm Street.

Phil: Before this game was released, it was actually promoted that you would play as Freddy Krueger.

Phil: When the game came out, it was actually just a side-scrolling platformer, where you collect the bones of Freddy Krueger that you deliver to a furnace at the end of the game.

Phil: So the boss battles interspersed are Freddy's bones, or his hand, or his claw, or whatever.

Phil: It's actually kind of cool.

Phil: So you're fighting these things.

Phil: Yeah, but as you're going through the level, the whole conceit of Nightmare on Elm Street is that when you sleep, that's when Freddy Krueger can attack you.

Phil: And so as you go through the levels, if you're taking too long, your sleep meter goes down.

Phil: So you have to speed through the levels, and then you fight the bones of Freddy Krueger.

Phil: It's actually a pretty hard game, but I mean, again, I wonder why this franchise hasn't lived on, really.

Phil: I don't know why Nightmare on Elm Street doesn't have currency beyond the s, really.

Phil: But yeah, not all of these licensed games are terrible.

Phil: Yeah.

Rob: Are you talking about the movie or the...

Rob: Are you talking about the movie now or the game licensed for Friday Night Live?

Phil: No, the movie, the movie.

Phil: The game is not worthy of any sort of sequel whatsoever.

Phil: But Freddy Krueger as a horror character, I think is wonderful.

Phil: And I just don't understand why he was left back there.

Rob: He wasn't left.

Rob: They did a remake about a year and a half ago.

Phil: Really?

Rob: They rebooted the whole thing.

Rob: And Freddy, he's not as funny anymore.

Rob: He actually looks like a much more realistic burn victim now where he's kind of like a little...

Rob: No, it came out about two years ago and it was a big controversy because a lot of people didn't like that Robert Englund wasn't going to be Freddy anymore.

Rob: And they ended up actually right around the same time because it's a Warner Brothers movie.

Rob: They actually put Freddy as a downloadable character in Mortal Kombat

Phil: Oh, God.

Phil: That's terrible.

Phil: It's a good...

Phil: Robert Englund is genius.

Phil: He lives in Laguna Beach, which is close to where I used to live.

Phil: I mean, why not have him back?

Phil: Because with all that makeup and everything, you may as well have the guy in the...

Phil: in the Roger suit, you know?

Rob: I've actually met him at horror conventions a couple of times.

Rob: Really?

Rob: No, no, no.

Rob: He's actually one of the really nicest guys you'll meet.

Rob: That's the funny thing.

Rob: I mean, some of these...

Rob: Some of the celebs that show up at these things are...

Rob: They're very bitter.

Rob: They do not want to be there, but they have no money.

Rob: So they have a self-autographed picture for $or $like the woman who plays Wednesday Addams, Lisa Loring.

Rob: From the old TV show, she's just...

Rob: She's a person that does not want to be there.

Rob: She's very unhappy.

Rob: But Robert Englund is just absolutely a class act.

Rob: He's really funny.

Rob: He'll always...

Rob: You know, if you just pass him in the hall, he'll even stop and talk with you for a few minutes.

Rob: And he's basically of the opinion that, you know what?

Rob: It's just time to move on.

Rob: I like to do other things as well.

Rob: He could have probably done Nightmare on Elm Street had he wanted to.

Rob: But he gave his blessing, and he's just happy doing a film here and there and enjoying semi-retirement.

Phil: Wow, that's a great story.

Rob: The last little bit is again the other big area, which is probably what ends up being the dominant horror category for a while, or just simple games, whether it's not simple games, but adventure and action games that just take classic horror monsters and put them in the roles of the villains.

Rob: The most primary example of that you can think of, Castlevania.

Rob: Castlevania was even kind of meant to even look like a movie.

Rob: There were always film credits kind of going at the end of the movie, made it look like the movie was on a film, or the game was on a film reel at times.

Rob: And so in Castlevania, who are you fighting?

Rob: Frankenstein, Dracula, classic movie monsters.

Rob: There was Ghosts and Goblins, Ghouls and Ghosts, whatever you want to call that franchise, where you're fighting Satan, Lucifer, a bunch of different devils throughout the game.

Rob: One of my personal favorites was Monster Party, just a classic, god, it was such a fun game.

Rob: They took monsters of every kind you could think of.

Rob: Some were classic, some were completely original ideas.

Rob: It was one of the goofiest games out there, but Monster Party definitely a game people need to check out.

Tom: Is it anything like Mario Party?

Rob: Not a thing.

Rob: This is just a straight action game, platformer action where you're just walking along, you've got a baseball bat, you occasionally turn into another monster, and you just kill everything on the screen.

Rob: Simple, beautiful, but really, really goofy sense of humor throughout the game.

Rob: So fun, fun stuff.

Rob: But for the most part, as far as all these -bit games go, they're not overly memorable.

Rob: They're good games, don't get me wrong, but as far as actual memorable for being horror, for being scary, none of them really did it.

Rob: There was really nothing that stands out except for one game.

Rob: And it never made it to America.

Rob: It was just a Japanese game on the Famicom, and it was called Sweet Home.

Rob: Sweet Home was a horror movie in Japan.

Rob: And so technically, this is actually a licensed game, but it was done, I believe, by Capcom.

Rob: And Capcom always took really good care of their licensed properties for whatever reason, why they felt the need to buck the trend of just making a dollar.

Rob: They always made really good games.

Rob: And so they took this game, the movie Sweet Home, and they made a horror turn-based RPG.

Rob: Lots of innovation in this game.

Rob: Characters, if they would die, they would actually die forever in the game.

Rob: It wasn't, you know, bring someone back to life.

Rob: Once you lost a party member, they were gone.

Rob: And this game is very, very special because this ends up being the, they call this the grandfather of survival horror.

Rob: This game is actually the inspiration for Resident Evil, which probably goes on to be the most famous horror game of all time.

Rob: Again, only available in Japan, but there was a fan-translated rom out there for anyone who wants to use an emulator.

Tom: Who wants to pirate the game and destroy the industry.

Rob: Yeah, that's true, but you know what, if you can't get, if until Capcom ponies up and translates this -year-old NES game or Famicom game, it's, but it's actually, it's very good game and actually does get very graphic, particularly when people die.

Rob: It's as visceral as you can get on an -bit cartridge.

Rob: And it's...

Phil: So, we've gone from Haunted House in to Mystery House to...

Phil: Sweet Home.

Phil: Sweet Home.

Phil: How did horror games evolve beyond this in the -bit era?

Tom: How did they evolve beyond the home setting?

Phil: Yes.

Rob: Well, we honestly, we stay at home.

Rob: We stay at the house.

Rob: We go to Splatter House.

Rob: Oh, Splatter House.

Rob: We go to Splatter House.

Rob: That's where we have...

Tom: Amazing.

Rob: In the -bit era, it really is just more of what I had mentioned earlier.

Rob: You know, you got more Castlevania games.

Rob: You get more monster games, more licensed games.

Rob: Nothing is real notable.

Rob: The only big game changer in this time is Splatter House, which basically, you know, puts you in the role of a Jason horror villain type character who you just walk around and beat things up.

Rob: It wasn't a great game, although by the time Splatter House came out, that actually was pretty good.

Rob: That one was worth playing.

Rob: The early ones, like the original Splatter House, was only available on the TurboGrafx-and then Sega got control of it and started putting it on the Genesis.

Rob: So that's where you could play Splatter House and

Rob: And Splatter House, again, was good.

Rob: Everything else, pretty forgettable, I thought.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: I mean, but just to take us back in time, I remember playing Splatter House on the TurboGrafx-when it came out.

Phil: There was a kid in the neighborhood who was rich, and he got every console there was.

Phil: And there were two games that we played on the TurboGrafx, and one of them was Splatter House.

Phil: And at the time, it was basically pornographic.

Phil: And again, recalling the true definition of pornography, it's just basically something that creates a purient interest.

Phil: This was something that for us was just like, oh my god, I can't believe how graphically violent this game is.

Phil: I played it this week in preparation for this interview on the Wii Virtual Console, and it's not even notable.

Phil: I mean, like, when I played it again, I was like, this is nothing.

Phil: I mean, this is not offensive on any level.

Phil: This doesn't evoke anything in me.

Phil: This is just like playing Mario.

Rob: Let's leave Splatterhouse behind, and we're going to, honest to god, this is really where horror comes into its own as far as a really important part of the gaming landscape.

Rob: And in the early s, we see a change in media, and that changes everything.

Rob: The CD-ROM, we get that on the PC, and then later that will go on to the PlayStation, Saturn, or however Sega wanted to put it on as their addition to the Genesis.

Rob: But once CD-ROM comes out, well, now we can really start to...

Rob: They can control the pacing of the game better.

Rob: The graphics are better, and so what happens is you're now actually getting genuine scares.

Rob: It's not just going for the visceral, or just showing gore or something like that.

Rob: They're actually going for legitimate scares now.

Rob: And so on the PC front, you start seeing some really great horror games.

Rob: Seventh Guest, Alone in the Dark, Gabriel Knight, Sins of the Father.

Rob: One of the weirder, more disturbing games was one called I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, which, god damn, that was really one of the more disturbing games of the time.

Tom: Unlike the short story it was based on, by the way.

Rob: Was the short story bad?

Rob: Yeah.

Rob: Okay, well, they corrected it.

Rob: Actually, I know the author.

Rob: I can't remember the name of the author at the time, but he actually was...

Rob: Allison.

Rob: Was involved somewhat in the development of the game, and they got it right, man, because the ending of that game was just...

Rob: It just wanted to make you kill your will to live.

Rob: It was bad.

Rob: It was, yeah, I don't even like talking about it, truth be told.

Rob: It really bothered me.

Tom: Was this the good ending or...

Phil: Because there were multiple endings.

Rob: Yes, this was the good ending.

Rob: And basically what it is is...

Rob: Hell, I don't think...

Rob: If anyone wants to play it, you know, spoiler alerts for I have no mouth and I must scream.

Rob: But the gist of the story is there is a computer that has basically wiped out the face of humanity and there's like five survivors left that the computer controls.

Rob: And they experience different things in their lives to see how they may have made different decisions.

Rob: And long story short is by the end, they all start killing each other.

Rob: One is left and the computer doesn't want to be alone, so it takes the final character and turns it into a mouthless blob.

Rob: And it's just really gross looking and it bothers me to this day.

Tom: And that ending, by the way, was unavailable in Germany.

Rob: Well, I'm sure the Germans are very, very sad.

Tom: Yeah.

Rob: But...

Tom: Or relieved.

Rob: Perhaps.

Rob: So there were tons of these really good games on the PC because now we have this great new media format.

Rob: Going back to Roberta Williams, she actually came out with a game that a lot of people say was really...

Rob: This era was the best horror game and it was called Phantasmagoria.

Rob: Came out in

Rob: And again, just kind of like Mystery House before, this was a really innovative game.

Rob: It was one of the first games to use a live person avatar.

Rob: There was a lot of video clips.

Rob: This had a huge budget.

Rob: And they did a lot of video to do the horror scenes.

Rob: And a lot of it really, by our standards today, is extremely goofy.

Rob: A lot of silent deaths.

Rob: And if you watch them, one guy, he's showing how he killed his wives earlier on.

Rob: He basically chokes one wife to death by just sticking a funnel in her mouth and starts beating her and grinds it until she chokes to death.

Rob: Because, you know, she thinks she eats too much.

Rob: And a lot of stuff like that.

Rob: But again, a real, I mean, also a real controversial game.

Rob: There was kind of an implied rape scene.

Rob: It didn't get real graphic, but just the fact that rape was being shown in a game was something really, really heavy for

Tom: That's still a really heavy FNAB, by the way.

Rob: It absolutely is.

Rob: There's no doubt about that.

Rob: And as a result, this game was not carried by a lot of stores in America.

Rob: I know it was banned in Australia.

Rob: Not uncommon for a lot of these games.

Rob: It got a teen-plus rating in Germany, which I believe at the time was at least the highest rating they could give a game, kind of like the AEO today.

Rob: And despite all that, it still ends up being one of the top-selling PC games of that year.

Rob: I mean, it just did very, very well.

Rob: So this was a really big, really important game.

Rob: And again, honestly, I don't think it holds up so well today, but at the time, it was something else.

Tom: Did it sell over copies?

Rob: This time, I think it actually sold over a million.

Tom: Amazing.

Tom: So just a small change in the size of the industry.

Rob: Just a little, just a little.

Rob: I guess it's a -year period.

Rob: So becomes the record and then a million later.

Rob: So good for them.

Rob: I guess the other game from this era that I would mention is not really worth mentioning for a good reason.

Rob: It's a terrible game.

Rob: In fact, it's really one of the worst games of all time.

Rob: You'll see it show up on worst game lists, but it's so comically bad, I have to mention it.

Rob: It came out for the Sega CD.

Rob: It was later put onto the PC and it was called Night Trap.

Rob: Does anyone remember Night Trap whatsoever?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: I love this game.

Phil: Everyone remembers Night Trap.

Phil: Now, keeping in mind that I'm a collector, I bought this game at a hefty premium.

Phil: This is a great game.

Phil: It basically took the whole multimedia back.

Phil: It had these little videos that you could watch, and you were playing the role of someone who could tap into these security cameras.

Phil: You could watch what was going on in each room by basically clicking on it and then watching a horribly pixelated video of what was going on.

Phil: I think that the only reason this game was named in a congressional hearing on violent games along with Mortal Kombat and Doom was the fact that it had Dana Plato in it, and she was on this popular sitcom, what was it called?

Phil: Different Strokes.

Rob: Fullman's Big Show from the early s.

Phil: Yeah, and so I think that's the only reason why it was brought up.

Phil: It doesn't contain any sexually or violent provocative media whatsoever.

Rob: It doesn't.

Rob: It was portrayed a little bit differently though.

Rob: I think it was, and part of this was Sega's own fault.

Rob: I think they really did portray it in a way that made it look like you were watching girls at a slumber party.

Rob: And without explaining it...

Phil: You were, but they were wearing the kind of negligee that Lucille Ball would wear.

Phil: I mean, you were, basically you were looking in on a slumber party for college-age girls, and there was some sort of guy who was basically conducting a home invasion.

Phil: Okay, this does sound bad actually.

Phil: But in concept, it sounds horrible, which is why Congress does this stuff, right?

Phil: Because it's basically the summaries of what the game's about.

Phil: But in terms of its actual content, it was less than innocent.

Phil: I mean, in the last four hours, I have read more offensive posts on thevgpress.com.

Tom: Well, I have posted in the last hours, so...

Phil: This game was not violent.

Phil: I mean, the cover was great in terms of it being a horror game.

Phil: And yes, the conceit is that there is a home invader who is looking in on these girls having a slumber party.

Phil: But it wasn't very provocative in any sense, so...

Rob: Let down on all accounts in that regard.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And it wasn't a terrible game.

Phil: I mean, in terms of what the creator was trying to achieve...

Rob: It was a nice try, I'll give it that.

Rob: And maybe it's one of those things where if I was able to play it in when it came out, I might feel a little bit better about it.

Rob: It was a very difficult game to play, even just a few years later, though.

Rob: The technology just, you know, advanced very quickly after this game.

Tom: I think, Northfield, this was also criticized for being sexist, and is a bit of misogynist, so it just defends any game that is called sexist.

Phil: This game was not sexist at all.

Phil: In fact, it was empowering to women more than anything.

Phil: But anyway, that's not the topic of this particular segment.

Phil: So what happened after?

Rob: Well, after this, now we have our new media format, and now the media format goes to the home console with the Sega Saturn and the PlayStation.

Rob: And that's where everything starts to just blow up, especially once we get Resident Evil in

Rob: Now Resident Evil just ends up being the horror game.

Rob: It gives us the whole survival horror genre, and it's immensely popular.

Rob: I mean, it really hits a nerve with everyone who plays it.

Rob: Over time, it sold over million copies.

Rob: It's launched movies, books, bad movies, and then plenty of spin-off games.

Rob: I mean, the series, we're up to Resident Evil and I can't even, probably at least, just as many side games.

Rob: And it's just become one of the most popular game properties that's around these days.

Rob: And the first game, it really got a hold of people.

Rob: You're fighting zombies.

Rob: It really wasn't much like it before.

Rob: I mean, I'll be honest, I was not a fan, but I know I'm probably in the minority on that one.

Rob: I mean, judging by how freakishly popular this was.

Rob: This really was one of the defining games of this era.

Rob: I mean, it was on the Saturn, which I guess a few people played.

Rob: But on PlayStation, it found its home, and it found a huge audience.

Rob: And it's, I think, really one of the reasons how gaming even broke into the adult sector.

Rob: It started making it a little bit more acceptable for people over the age of to be playing video games.

Phil: No, absolutely, absolutely.

Phil: And you guys are succeeding in making me look and sound really old, because I have the Saturn version of Resident Evil.

Phil: I also was not a fan until I played Resident Evil on the GameCube and Wii.

Phil: They're completely different games.

Phil: Oh, they are, they are, absolutely.

Phil: But in playing this, I bought the Saturn version years after its release.

Phil: I didn't buy this at the time.

Phil: But, I mean, there is one part of that game with that part where the dog jumps through the window.

Phil: You know, you're walking through a hall, and then all of a sudden this zombie dog jumps through a window.

Phil: To me, that was like we've hit a new age here.

Rob: Yeah, very much so.

Rob: This gave you the jolt, you're like, oh my god, open a new room, something's going to get you.

Rob: Absolutely.

Rob: This is the...

Rob: This is that game.

Tom: The thing is, I think the dog jumping through the window was the only time that they really pulled it off, because I'm a lot younger than the both of you, right?

Tom: So I would have been, let's say, to probably more like or or something when I played this.

Tom: The only time I jumped was during that dog scene.

Tom: So I think what it did successfully was, it used just the fear of what might be around the corners to create the tension, but it didn't actually pull off any jump scares most of the time.

Phil: Well, the very fact that you recall that moment means that it was successful.

Phil: I mean, if this game produced a single moment, it is successful, because you can play different Saturn games, trust me, and not have any reaction to them other than, what am I doing with my life?

Phil: But the fact that you can put in a Saturn game and play it and have a reaction, like as visceral as you would have with an HD system, and Monster Closets as a result have come up to the point where you're playing...

Phil: I was playing Dead Space the other.

Phil: Day, and you go into a men's room, and you're opening store doors, and just the act of doing that, you're like, okay, here it comes, right?

Phil: You're just waiting.

Phil: As you open store door, okay, well, nothing happened.

Phil: Well, we'll open the next store door.

Phil: Well, nothing happened.

Phil: And you end up opening all of them and nothing happens, but that is a wonderful point of design because we're all expecting that at some point we're going to open that store door and that zombie dog or his grandson is going to jump out at us.

Tom: The other interesting thing about Resident Evil is that I didn't know that you mentioned is that it was inspired by Sweet Home, right?

Tom: Because the horror style in Resident Evil is completely American.

Tom: So I just thought that was kind of interesting.

Phil: Rob, how does that...

Phil: No, actually, I was interested in that.

Phil: Rob, how does Sweet Home influence Resident Evil?

Phil: I mean, it was a Japanese game, right?

Rob: Yeah, Japanese game, Japanese developers.

Rob: The thought was, you know, he wanted to make a game that takes place entirely in a house.

Rob: That's where the initial idea comes from.

Rob: And just, you know, I guess, just staying alive.

Rob: They never...

Rob: I mean, I've read a lot of documentation on it, and he constantly references Sweet Home, or they've constantly referenced Sweet Home as the...

Rob: This is the game, this is the grandfather of survival horror, and so there are elements of that game in there.

Rob: I haven't spent tons of time with it, but I'm sure there are plenty of little bits here and there that they picked up in Sweet Home that went on to, you know, influence the game.

Rob: Like I said, I think mainly just being lost in the haunted house and trying to stay alive while figuring out what's going on.

Phil: It's probably a lot like the relationship between the original, you know, Castle Wolfenstein, which was the D tech...

Phil: I mean, you know, the text game, which had very simple graphics, and Wolfenstein D.

Phil: And knowing Japanese developers, I bet that Resident Evil is absolutely pumped full of references from Sweet Home.

Phil: That's really interesting.

Rob: All right, well, you know, if we're moving on, you know, RE does...

Tom: No, before we move on, we've just got to say...

Tom: We've got to say, by the way, it sold million copies just to keep this sales obsession going.

Phil: Yeah, well, actually, before you move on, Tom, do you have anything to say about Killzone?

Tom: No, but I could say something about Yakuza.

Rob: I was going to ask, yeah, please.

Phil: Actually, there is a Yakuza game that does have survival horror.

Tom: And I believe it also...

Tom: It's not just survival horror, it's survival horror featuring a lot of zombies.

Phil: Yeah, because of Dead Souls, but out of respect for our beloved guest who has taken time out of his day to join us today, we're going to let him move on.

Phil: So, from Resident Evil on the set and PlayStation in where did we go from there?

Rob: Well, we start seeing a ton more horror show up on those consoles at the time, and so we start seeing the Silent Hill series takes off and does very well.

Rob: We get two Parasite Eve games from Square.

Rob: Capcom tries to strike gold again with Dino Crisis.

Rob: This time, they don't promote it as survival horror, they call it panic horror.

Rob: Panic horror did not take off, which is a shame because I thought Dino Crisis was a great game, but that was what they tried to do to describe it.

Rob: Again, not as catchy as survival horror, I guess.

Tom: That was more of an action game as well.

Rob: Yeah, it was.

Tom: So it's basically that the baby steps towards Resident Evil

Rob: Very likely, very likely.

Rob: And then on the PC front we see American McGee's Alice, which goes on to be just a very twisted telling of the Alice in Wonderland story, and not a half bad game either.

Phil: Well, in this era, I mean, we have games like Siren, Silent Hill, Manhunt and Echo Night, The Thing, The Suffering.

Phil: I mean, this really was a great era because this was an era in which, unlike today, your middle tier developers actually stood a chance of producing games and making money at them.

Phil: So it was really a great era, I think, for horror games.

Rob: Yeah, no, that whole -year period was fantastic because if your game sold half a million copies, which is what most horror games did.

Rob: Aside from the really big series, if you could do to half a million copies, you had a very, very successful game.

Rob: And then we kind of, for a while, saw the beginning of the end because when the PlayStation and that era comes out, the development costs for every developer just skyrocketed.

Phil: But yeah, back in the PlayStation

Rob: Yeah, no, Girl Lord of the Flies, and it's messed up.

Rob: It's not.

Rob: I think it's interesting.

Rob: I never could finish it.

Rob: I didn't think it was that good, but I mean, I can appreciate why people do like it so much.

Rob: I mean, I really like the concept behind it and just the way they approach the, you know, just kind of, you know, making it...

Rob: There's a whole psychological horror theory, and I think it's really cool.

Rob: Again, I didn't think it played real well, but, you know, it's just me.

Phil: That's exactly right.

Phil: I mean, the psychological horror aspect of it is something that you see in movies as well.

Phil: Like, but the game, yeah, the game itself is not great, but it's one of those things where in a video game, like if you're playing in Grand Theft Auto and you jump off a very high building, you know, you have this sense of your stomach moving, right?

Phil: And it's something that I wonder about, like with horror games, what is it about them that can evoke fear?

Phil: That, you know, like games can't evoke humor, right?

Phil: Very, very few games can evoke a chuckle.

Phil: Games can't evoke love.

Phil: Games can't evoke many of the very basic things that humans experience.

Phil: What is it about video games that is able, even in the lowest technological level, like Resident Evil on the Saturn, to get a response?

Rob: I go back to two things.

Rob: In gaming, the one thing that, particularly in later years, the one thing that they can always control, if they want, is the pacing and the timing.

Rob: I mean, you can, you know, that dog that's hiding in Resident Evil, they know exactly where the player is going to be when he's going to open the door or when he's near the door.

Rob: They can control that timing and they can lull you into a, you know, not being prepared for it.

Rob: They can completely just, you know, you're not paying attention and then bam, it hits you.

Rob: And I think that's one of the things I liked about Resident Evil so much.

Rob: I thought the pacing in that game is perfect.

Rob: And I know people, they claim that the, it's not as scary as some of the others, but I've always disagreed.

Rob: I've always thought that the big moments in that game actually trump a lot of the other, you know, earlier ones in the series.

Rob: I mean, I still held that scene where the zombie on fire jumps out of the locker, like how the hell you forgot him there, we'll never know.

Rob: But that scene always makes me jump.

Phil: No, the thing with Resident Evil is it goes, it has two modes.

Phil: One is holy fuck, and the other one is fuck, right?

Phil: I mean, you go from fuck to holy fuck time and time and time again, and that's why the pacing is so great.

Phil: You go from being scared to being, oh my God, how am I going to get out of this?

Phil: And I think that when you're listening-

Tom: I was never scared during Resident Evil

Tom: I would say it goes from-

Tom: Yeah, Resident Evil didn't scare me in now Resident Evil hasn't scared me.

Tom: But to me, the tension was not so much scared.

Tom: It was sort of a creeping sense of unease in the soul parts where you're just walking along, like when you're going through the medical experiments place, right?

Tom: But then rather than say like in Resident Evil where you then have a dog scene or something where something jumps in and gives you a fright, to me the payoff was more of an action payoff where it doesn't give you a fright so much as make you, it gives you a shot of adrenaline, but more in the sense of now I've got to beat the shit out of this, right?

Tom: That was more my reaction to it than say in the old Resident Evils where the jump scenes, the reaction was holy shit, what the fuck am I going to do?

Phil: No, I think in Resident Evil it was more a matter of unease.

Phil: I mean, you were uneasy the entire game, and that's something that you can evoke.

Phil: And I think when it comes down to it, I mean, video games are mostly successful when they evoke two of the most primal instincts of man, if I can get a little deep here.

Phil: But basically, it's when you're confronted with a conflict, do you fight or do you flight, right?

Phil: Do you run away or do you engage?

Phil: And the FPS shooters, FPS is basically fight, right?

Phil: The guy's in front of me, he's shooting at me, I'm going to shoot back at him.

Phil: This somehow gets into my lizard brain and releases some endorphins.

Phil: And I'm not judging that, that's fine.

Phil: I'm playing Resistance right now, and I love the game, right?

Phil: And then you have these horror games, which are less successful than FPSes obviously, which evoke the flight, which is like, it feeds the fear inside of you, that I've been caught off guard, I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with this.

Phil: What am I doing right now?

Phil: What am I dealing with?

Phil: Should I run away or should I fight?

Phil: And that's why I think horror games are so effective because they can just cut to the chase and evoke these feelings inside of you that other games cannot.

Phil: And that to a degree is why they're less successful because who wants to feel that, right?

Phil: In most senses, people want to feel like they're in control, which is why games like Call of Duty are so successful commercially because you're not challenged.

Phil: You're just like, you're the man and you can take on anything that comes up against you and you're just going to control the world that's in front of you.

Phil: Whereas games that challenge you, like Dead Space, put you in a more vulnerable place, you know, emotionally, so you don't want to deal with that.

Phil: You're here to play a game, why would I want to deal with that?

Phil: I think that's what these horror games, you know, ride the balance of.

Phil: And you see that with the evolution of Resident Evil where it's gone from this game where I'm not quite sure what to do here, I'm feeling something real.

Phil: Do I run or do I fight?

Phil: To basically saying, well, the commercial reality these days is people are going to play games where they feel more in control.

Phil: And that's what we saw with the latest Resident Evil.

Phil: So I'll just get off my soapbox now.

Phil: No, good views.

Tom: Well, that's what I would say we saw with Resident Evil

Tom: Just to go back to that again, but move on now.

Phil: Well, the difference with Resident Evil just to finally cap its defense, I would say that it straddles the fence perfectly.

Phil: And any shortcoming of that game was made up for in its pacing.

Tom: I'm agreeing with that.

Tom: All I was simply saying was that it got the unease perfect, but then instead of eliciting a flight response in the player as the early Resident Evil might have, it then instead elicited the fight response.

Phil: Yeah, well, absolutely.

Phil: I know Rob has talked about this before.

Phil: So it's specifically with REthat it was the beginning of the end, right?

Rob: Yeah, that's how I kind of...

Rob: I mean, at that point, it was ridiculously successful.

Rob: I mean, it's one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time.

Rob: And did fairly well.

Rob: I mean, it was originally the GameCube, so it didn't sell tons, but they put it on the PlayStation and that kind of brought the sales right where it should be and maybe even a little bit higher.

Rob: It was re-released on the Wii, did well, so it's been a real...

Rob: It's done well as far as the original development costs, but kind of like how the original Resident Evil spawned a lot of other imitators who tried to go into the survival horror category, a lot of other imitators saw this and said, all right, we're just going to do more shooting.

Rob: We're all just going to...

Rob: We're going to focus more on the action part of it.

Rob: And I think that's...

Rob: I mean, even Resident Evil itself, I think when you look at five and six, they turn more into action games and they decided to stop straddling the line and just go towards that direction.

Tom: I go over to the unease.

Rob: Yeah, exactly.

Rob: It was just kill.

Rob: And to some extent, I thought they did actually a decent job with Resident Evil Revelations on the DS, and I guess it's coming out pretty soon on the HD systems.

Rob: They went back a little bit toward that unease feeling.

Rob: I still don't think they nailed it nearly as well as REthough.

Rob: But going back to where we were, as I said, once the HD era kind of begins, developers can't put horror games on these systems, at least not in the early years.

Rob: The really only exception in the early years was maybe Bioshock, which again, fantastic game.

Rob: And to some extent, I guess you could say, developers can't make a game that's going to be profitable for them, because these horror games are only on average selling maybe a half million copies except for the real big franchises.

Rob: So a lot of the horror games will end up going to the Wii.

Rob: And so for the early years of the Wii, you actually see this huge rush of horror games.

Rob: You see Calling, Cursed Mountain, Silent Hill, Shattered Memories, Jew on the Grudge, Dead Space Extraction.

Rob: For the most part, none of these games are terribly good, just to throw that out there.

Tom: You're forgetting one major game here.

Rob: I haven't forgotten it.

Tom: No, the Vaporware game.

Tom: Was it called Silence or something?

Tom: You know, they have this black and white live action trailer for it, and everyone was hugely excited for it.

Rob: That was Silence.

Rob: That was...

Rob: was it Sorrow?

Tom: I'm not sure what it was called.

Rob: That's fresh.

Rob: I remember what you're talking about.

Rob: Everyone was really geared up for that game.

Rob: It never happened.

Rob: But again, most of these games, with the exception of House of the Dead, Overkill, none of them were very successful.

Rob: Overkill did about copies, though, although that number always needs to be quantified to some extent, because most of those copies came after it hit the $price point.

Rob: It didn't particularly well in the initial release.

Rob: But the one game I did want to talk about on the Wii that really is important is Manhunt

Rob: Now, Manhunt was, I mentioned this earlier in the show, really one of the most controversial games of all time.

Rob: When this came, was just about to launch, this is a rock star game, they were, really, it was just within the final few months before it was going to be released, everyone started looking at the game, and it was just getting banned left and right for the content.

Rob: And there's a quote I like to read from the BBFC director.

Rob: That's the ESRB equivalent in England, I believe.

Tom: The British Board of Classification.

Rob: Thank you so much.

Rob: And this is what he said about Manhunt

Rob: Where possible, we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications, which remove the material which contravenes the board's published guidelines.

Rob: In the case of Manhunt this has not been possible.

Rob: Manhunt is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing.

Rob: This game got slammed everywhere.

Rob: It got the AO rating in America.

Rob: No retailer would touch it.

Rob: Nintendo was just like, please don't release this, Sony.

Rob: Same way it came out on the PSand on the PSP.

Rob: So the game had to be really retooled.

Rob: One of the things that was so amazing about this game or what they were really counting on, people considering amazing, these really over the top murder scenes where you would just...

Rob: I mean, it was really, really rough in some cases.

Rob: I remember in one case, the character would beat up a cop and then he would pick up a manhole cover and just start repeatedly bashing him in the head until he fell into the cover and then he would seal him up back in there.

Rob: I mean, it was really...

Rob: One guy got kicked in the groin repeatedly until he started just getting bludgeoned with everything else.

Rob: Another guy basically had his head stuck between a toilet seat and the bowl and was just repeatedly banging it until his head was flat.

Rob: I mean, it was...

Tom: It sounds like good, honest fun to me.

Rob: Well, that's the thing.

Rob: You can go on YouTube and you can watch collections of all these deaths, and I think they're actually pretty funny because it is...

Rob: Don't get me wrong.

Rob: It's very visceral.

Rob: It's very over the top, but it's funny because of all that.

Rob: But, you know, a lot of reviewers just said, mmm, no.

Rob: And in the context of The Game, it actually was a little bleak.

Rob: I will agree with that.

Rob: There really was no moment where you took a breath and said, ah, things aren't so bad.

Rob: I mean, it was just one bad situation after another in this game.

Tom: But I just say, isn't that so incredibly ridiculous that the censors are complaining that something is bleak?

Tom: Their main focus in their complaint was that it was bleak and depressing.

Tom: I mean, come on.

Rob: I wish they added nouns in this.

Rob: It would have been fine, but you know, no claims.

Tom: Yeah.

Rob: I do.

Rob: So anyway, I do actually suggest if you can find a copy of it, it's not expensive these days.

Rob: You can usually find it under $or so.

Rob: Take a look.

Rob: Even in the edited version, it's amusing.

Rob: Or just go on YouTube and watch all those scenes, which is actually probably just as good.

Rob: Then, let's see, where do we go from here?

Rob: I guess the HD consoles.

Rob: After about midway through their lifecycle, we started seeing a lot of great games.

Rob: The game development had finally gotten cheap enough.

Rob: Developers all decided, well, you know what?

Rob: If we just make high-end horror games, maybe we can make our money back that way too.

Rob: And so towards the middle of the HD, the and the PScycle, you start seeing all these horror games start going over there now, where everyone abandoned the Wii completely.

Rob: They all moved over here.

Rob: And there were some really good games again.

Rob: You had Bioshock, which I think is one of the...

Rob: I'm not a huge Bioshock fan as far as the gameplay, but I've always thought the setting and the story were really, really good.

Rob: You have Resident Evil games, again, we talked about, not really horror, but you have other good games like Dead Rising, which is just, you know, took the zombie concept to the extreme.

Rob: Alan Wake, Dead Space, a lot of fans of their...

Rob: some really original stuff like Catherine.

Rob: Catherine was all about the fear of relationships.

Phil: Really?

Rob: It's a brilliant idea.

Rob: It's just, you know, making you scared of relationships, and they possibly throw some demonic activity in there as well.

Rob: But it was...

Phil: That's where the game is.

Phil: The guy is basically engaged to be married.

Rob: To Catherine with a K, and then there's a little hot blonde comes along with a...

Rob: who's Catherine with a C.

Rob: And he has to decide what he wants to do with them.

Rob: And that was developed by Atlas.

Rob: It was actually the only game they really worked on last generation, or this generation, whichever.

Phil: That's true.

Phil: But is that really horror?

Rob: If you play this game, yeah.

Rob: It's a very tense game.

Rob: There's a lot more humor in it, but they actually do put the main character through quite a bit.

Phil: It's masterful, really.

Rob: That's actually one of the highlights.

Rob: That's actually a game that I know not a lot of people have played, and it's definitely well worth tracking down.

Rob: It's available in digital formats as well, if someone wants just to get it off whatever store they choose.

Rob: Aside from that, again, there's another Suda game out there, Shadows of the Damned and Lollipop Chainsaw, both of his creations.

Rob: I think Shadows of the Damned is actually not so great of a game, but Lollipop Chainsaw really is a lot of fun, and they're not particularly scary.

Rob: It's just classic Suda 's take on killing zombies and the underworld, and it's fun stuff if you like his kind of games.

Tom: You know what's a much more horror-based game, I would say, even though it doesn't follow any sort of horror tropes in terms of enemies, would be Killer which has a very tense atmosphere to it, and you are basically fighting these terror zombies, but we should have discussed that earlier.

Rob: Oh, well, swing and a miss.

Rob: And the last game I will mention, zombie packs have been huge now for downloadable content, whether it was just something as simple as turning enemies into zombies or something more substantial like Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption.

Rob: But the last game I think I would really want to talk about as far as the notable horror games that we have around was Limbo.

Rob: Now, I have certainly railed against Limbo on a reviewer standpoint.

Rob: I don't think it was a whole lot of fun.

Rob: I thought it was more of a game where it was just, okay, try not to die the same way that you did last time and learn from that experience and keep going.

Rob: But as far as the mood, the atmosphere, I can't think of a better example in recent years on how a horror game should look and how it should sound.

Rob: It's a real creepy vibe the entire time.

Rob: The story is just a little boy who's trying to find his sister.

Rob: They both died and he's searching for her in limbo, that world in between heaven and hell.

Rob: And it's, you know, say what you want for the game playing.

Rob: God knows I will say lots about it.

Rob: It's a really remarkable looking and just the feel of it.

Rob: I can't think of a game that really nailed the feel of a horror experience better than that.

Phil: Clearly, it did strike that same nerve.

Phil: In terms of you wanted to protect the character that you were playing, you know, much like Clem in The Walking Dead or whatever.

Rob: Yeah, no, again, you're playing a little boy.

Rob: I mean, it's, when you see some horrific deaths he goes through, you know, he's being chased by a very creepy giant spider.

Rob: Other little boys in kind of a Lords of the Fly way try to kill him and just all the things he has to go through because he's just trying to find his sister.

Rob: I mean, it's a real, yeah, it does strike that nerve and everything's just gloomy as hell.

Tom: See, now, I actually quite enjoy killing him just because the death animations were so good.

Tom: You're always one of the most enjoying parts of the game.

Rob: You shouldn't have kids.

Phil: Yeah, you shouldn't.

Phil: And we'll do everything we can to prevent that.

Phil: Please donate at gameunder.net.

Phil: Finally, we really want to thank you for coming on.

Phil: Rob, we appreciate that.

Tom: We did our best to ruin your presentation, but you managed to make it awesome anyway, despite our best efforts.

Rob: You know what?

Rob: If I didn't have these challenges, I would have just stayed on a message board where I could type to my heart's content.

Rob: This keeps me on my toes.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: So if you are in Florida, when is Spooky's Empire Ultimate Horror Weekend coming up?

Rob: They've got one in May called Mayhem.

Rob: That's their May show.

Rob: Memorial Day weekend, which I believe is around May th, th and th.

Rob: I will not be speaking at that this year, but I probably...

Rob: Don't bother going.

Rob: Don't bother going to that unless you want to...

Rob: you're dying to meet Zach Wild.

Rob: He'll be there this year.

Rob: Same guitarist.

Rob: But the next horror show, just go to spookyempire.com and you can see what the October schedule is.

Rob: I will probably be speaking at that one this year.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, Rob Lozak from Power Level Marketing, thank you so much.

Phil: We're not going to subject you to the rest of this horrible podcast.

Tom: Well, it should be horrible as we're discussing horror.

Phil: Well, we're letting him go nonetheless.

Phil: Yay!

Phil: I can see.

Phil: Thank you very much, Rob.

Rob: Thanks, guys.

Phil: Well, that was great of Rob Lozak to join us.

Phil: I wish he could have stayed around for the rest of the show, but obviously he's got more important things to do than we.

Phil: And another video game that we've both had experience with lately, I'm actually currently playing Alan Wake on the PC.

Phil: It's one of the two games I'm currently playing.

Phil: It's the game by Remedy, who are famous for doing the Max Payne series, Max Payne and at least.

Phil: And I went into this game having played and beaten Max Payne and not expecting that much.

Tom: So you're not a Max Payne fan?

Phil: I beat and

Phil: I mean...

Tom: You beat them, but that's all you're going to say positive about them.

Phil: I mean, it was very hard for me, because I beat them either this year or last year.

Phil: I think I beat Max Payne last year, Max Payne this year.

Phil: And it was on the console, so it was on a compromised version of the game.

Phil: So while I could see what they were going for, and I can give them kudos or kudos for doing the bullet time thing and the narrative, it was hard to appreciate it as much as if I would at the time of the release of the game.

Phil: However, Alan Wake carries over many of the same characteristics.

Phil: It's a third-person shooter, effectively.

Phil: It has a narrative, a strong narrative voice that goes over it, rather.

Phil: And a lot of the same kinds of style, a film noir kind of style to it, that the first two Max Payne games had.

Phil: So it's really a continuation of it.

Phil: They, of course, gave up the Max Payne IP to Rockstar, who has now gone on to publish the third one, and it was a commercial flop.

Phil: I was really impressed with Alan Wake on the PC.

Phil: I mean, it is a really fun game, first and foremost.

Phil: It controls well.

Phil: And then beyond that, they have a hyper realistic graphical style that is very impressive.

Phil: And again, I'm playing the PC version, so I don't know how this was on the but it is really impressive visually.

Phil: And then when you go into the mode where you're attacking, you know, paranormal enemies, they kind of start stretching and blurring, not blurring, but rather stretching everything.

Phil: So things get stretched slightly in every which direction, which gives it a dreamlike quality, which I'm pretty sure is what this is all going to play out to.

Phil: I'm pretty sure, and this isn't really a spoiler alert because I don't know what's going to happen, but basically Alan Wake appears to be going through a story that he has written.

Phil: So he's the author of the terrible things that he's experiencing.

Phil: So his book has come to life, and he is now a part of the book in a very Stephen King type way.

Tom: You don't even need to play the game to find out if that's true or not.

Tom: You need only look at the press releases.

Phil: Oh, is that right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, throughout the game, you're collecting pages of your novel and things like that.

Phil: I mean, it's not deductive science to get to this.

Phil: I mean, it's pretty obvious early on that that's what's going on.

Phil: But it is horrific.

Phil: His wife is scared of the dark, and there's power outages and things like that.

Phil: You basically use a flashlight and a gun to fight off these spirits.

Phil: And it's a thoroughly effective and enjoyable game.

Phil: Have you played the original Alan?

Tom: No, I haven't.

Tom: I've got two questions just immediately.

Tom: First is, now you say it looks extremely good.

Tom: Do the characters look like they are mentally retarded when they're speaking?

Phil: No.

Tom: Okay, because they do in the expansion that I played.

Phil: No, they have basically in-engine cutscenes.

Phil: A little too many of them for my liking, but they do have them, and they look perfectly normal and fine.

Phil: They look like TV actors.

Phil: It's been done very well.

Tom: Okay, because in the expansion, or if you want to call it a sequel, the game looks fine until you start talking to one of the characters, and then it just looks abysmally bad.

Tom: And my second question would be, how much tension is there at horror?

Tom: Because the sequel, American Nightmare, is basically a % action game.

Phil: I would say there is no horror elements to this, much like Cursed Mountain.

Phil: It's basically just an action game.

Phil: Instead of shooting Arabs, you're just shooting ghosts.

Phil: It's not particularly scary or creepy.

Phil: When your fake wife is screaming at a distance, asking you to come and help her, that's pretty creepy.

Phil: It does have creepy elements to it, but it's really not disturbing.

Phil: Like my favorite horror game that we'll talk about toward the end of this show.

Phil: No, just a third person action shooter.

Tom: Well, that's disappointing because the third person action shooting in American Nightmare was pretty boring.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: The shooting in this game, too, is not great.

Phil: You know, it's more the storytelling and the overall presentation of it that I'm enjoying.

Tom: And because the other thing is, I'm sure you remember as this was discussed a while ago, and if you weren't there, you would have been there while editing the discussion, I thought the presentation in the sequel was pretty much abysmal.

Tom: The voice acting was in general just terrible.

Tom: The writing was beyond bad.

Tom: The one really good thing was, and I wonder if they spent most of the effort on getting this done well, whereas in the first one, they didn't have a gimmick like this that they might have been focused on, was basically in the sequel, you're trapped in this area by a television character from one of your shows, and he is acted out by an actual actor in live action.

Tom: He was very entertaining.

Tom: That was very well done, but the rest of the presentation was just terrible, and the thing that really annoyed me about it was, they're so in love with Stephen King right now.

Tom: I'm not a Stephen King fan, but if you're going to do something that is a tribute to something, at least do it well and copy the source material well, which I think they just completely missed all the style and all the good things about Stephen King, and it wasn't just Stephen King.

Tom: They were also copying shows like The Twilight Zone and whatnot, and they just clearly had absolutely no concept of what was actually involved in making their shows, which is somewhat important when you're there making a tribute to them, because you've got to be able to mimic them accurately, right?

Phil: Well, right, but I'm wondering if perhaps American Nightmare was basically released not in a retail setting, but only on XPLA, and then later, what, on Steam or whatever?

Tom: I don't know.

Tom: Yeah, it was basically an expansion pack, except those don't exist anymore, so they called it a sequel.

Phil: The way I saw it was that it was basically a tongue-in-cheek rendering, much like the zombie Undead Nightmare for Red Dead Redemption.

Phil: This was something that was basically ha-ha, here we go, you guys love the game, check this out, isn't this cool?

Phil: Which might explain the half-baked nature of the game that you're experiencing.

Tom: Yeah, but at the same time, the tributes did seem rather earnest as well.

Tom: But yeah, we can't really get a proper comparison, both of us only played one game, and I am very much hoping that Alan Wake, the original, is a hell of a lot better than the sequel, because I was very, very much enamored by the whole concept of it pre-release and was following it until it got delayed for like two and a half years.

Phil: Well, lest I be mistaken here by our listeners, I'm actually really enjoying Alan Wake, if not just for the visual style of it.

Phil: The fact that it's deciding to, yeah, we can do photo realism, but we're going to apply a creative filter to it.

Phil: It really does feel like we're a remedy should be in terms of evolving their game development skills.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So are we ready to awaken from Alan Wake?

Phil: Move on to the next topic.

Tom: I've got one last question for you.

Tom: How much has the wife featured in it so far?

Phil: Well, fairly prominently.

Tom: Okay, because she in the sequel had a standout voice acting performance.

Tom: She was extremely good on that.

Tom: Whereas everyone else was pretty damn bad, but she was excellent.

Phil: No, she's played a fairly good role.

Phil: I don't have a problem with it at all.

Phil: I mean, the voice acting overall has been pretty strong, though it is difficult to do when you have a narrator.

Phil: It's hard to do that in an honest sense because narrators are obviously a dramatic device.

Phil: Well, with that, I think we're ready to move on to our final feature of Episode where we will talk about our favorite horror games.

Phil: And I guess I'll kick this off, because I will certainly go short.

Phil: My experience with horror games, as I described to you and to Rob earlier, I was really scared off from any sort of horror media from the ages of on.

Phil: After my Amityville horror experience, I wanted nothing to do with anything scary at all, on any level.

Phil: I mean, it completely freaked me out.

Phil: And then at my first, quote, co-ed party, a girl who liked me had rented a VHS tape of Freddy Krueger, Nightmare on Elm Street, right?

Phil: So, of course, I couldn't be like, oh no, I'm not going to watch this, right?

Phil: I have to sit there and watch this.

Phil: And so, you know, I was and now I'm like and I've been able to bypass any sort of horror experience, and I'm watching Freddy Krueger, Nightmare on Elm Street, and of course, it's completely inoffensive, right?

Phil: It's not scary at all.

Phil: It's not interesting at all.

Phil: It's just gore.

Phil: Not even good gore, and you can tell it's fake.

Phil: So, I'm like, okay, all right, that's good, but after that point, I did not have any interaction with horror, film or game until around probably.

Phil: And where I said, okay, I'm old enough now, time has moved on, right?

Tom: I'm years old, I'm finally ready.

Phil: Right, I'm ready, yeah.

Phil: I mean, yeah, I'm grown.

Phil: I'm a man, right?

Phil: So, I go to the game stop, and I'm buying games, and I see Silent Hill

Phil: I'm like, you know, fair enough, it's a cheap game, I'm a game collector, I'm a game player, I'm a gamer, fuck it, you know, I'll buy it.

Phil: So, it's a Saturday night, and I take it home, and I tell Velvet, well, you know, we should turn off the lights, and just play this in the spirit in which it's intended, let's go, let's play Silent Hill

Phil: I am probably minutes into it, and I'm like, that's it, I'm done.

Phil: Turn on the lights, and I took the game out of my PlayStation I put it in the case, and the next morning, on Sunday morning, I took the game back, and got a store credit, and bought, you know, God knows what, right?

Tom: So you still weren't ready.

Phil: I wasn't ready, it freaked me out.

Phil: I was not ready.

Phil: The radio static, the fog, whatever it was, and now as a collector, I'm like, damn it, Neil, I still don't have Silent Hill as a part of my collection, because I was like, okay, I'm taking this back, because I'll never play it, because this is too scary.

Phil: So I took it back, and about, you know, flash forward about another seven years, and I bought Condemned for the because it was like $at a retailer.

Phil: This was a launch game for the and, you know, the collector in me was like, okay, it's a horror game, I heard it's pretty scary, there's probably shit, so I'll probably never play it, so I'll just buy it, because it's like $

Phil: So I bought it, and then about three years later, I played it.

Phil: And so this is the first horror experience I've had since The Amityville Horror when I'm eight years old.

Tom: Well, you're forgetting about the Silent Hill and Freddy Krueger experiences.

Phil: Well, those were fleeting, fleeting nudity.

Phil: True.

Phil: You know?

Phil: They didn't really count.

Phil: So I put in Condemned, and this is a game that I absolutely loved from the first...

Phil: I mean, second, until I beat it.

Phil: This is a game that is horribly horrific.

Phil: I mean, it's a terrible game.

Phil: It's not a first-person shooter.

Phil: It's a first-person action game.

Phil: And most of the carnage that you inflict comes using blunt instruments, right?

Phil: And it's set in places like a doll factory or a mannequin factory or an abandoned department store or an abandoned school or an abandoned hospital.

Phil: Like, it's just the creepiest settings.

Phil: And you're playing, again, this is some sort of, like, FBI agent that has paranormal experience who is framed for crime.

Phil: And Condemned is even better than the original Condemned.

Phil: Really?

Phil: I mean, it's...

Phil: Yeah, well...

Tom: It gets a pretty bad rap, generally, compared to the first.

Phil: It's not...

Phil: It is a better game than the first game.

Phil: The first game has better level design.

Phil: The second game is a little bit more cynical in terms of its commercial presentation.

Phil: So, for example, one of the great things about the first game is that you're a heavy set, overweight Hispanic dude, right?

Phil: And your cohort that's helping you out, your inside source, is a chubby African American defense worker, right?

Phil: And in the second game, she gets turned into basically Vivica Fox or Vivisha Fox, I don't know how it's pronounced.

Phil: But she basically is turned into a sex object and you get turned into like some sort of stud, right?

Tom: So what do you say if they both get turned into sex objects, just to be clear?

Phil: There are some superficial problems with the second game.

Phil: But overall, in terms of their horror, these are creepy, creepy games and I'm so appreciative of them because it opened the door for me to play other games like The Suffering or many other, you know...

Tom: Do you think you'll ever make it up to Silent Hill?

Phil: Well, I did play another Silent...

Phil: and beat another Silent Hill game on the Wii, whatever that one...

Phil: that was called, Shattered Dreams, but I don't think I could...

Phil: That's a little scary though.

Phil: No, it's not.

Phil: I don't think I could ever go back to Silent Hill but maybe I could, because at this point I am just appreciating these games as commercial enterprises, and I'm able to separate myself away from the emotional reaction that I'm having.

Tom: You say that now, but when the static begins, you'll be thinking differently.

Tom: Right.

Phil: Well, what is your favourite horror game?

Tom: My favourite horror game is actually Silent Hill, but we're not going to talk about that really.

Tom: I'm going to say one thing quickly, just to once again demonstrate my superiority and toughness, because this came out in, what, so I would have been playing this when I was or right?

Tom: Now, Silent Hill, I don't know if it is, it's probably meant to be a bit less scary than Silent Hill right?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Silent Hill is basically the apex of the Silent Hill franchise, as far as I can find out.

Tom: But it's still got a pretty big good reputation for being quite scary, especially as far as PlayStation games go.

Tom: Now, when I played this, I thought it was just an incredibly enjoyable experience, and I got very, I did not get very fine at all.

Tom: As far as I can remember, I got up to...

Tom: When you meet the policeman in a cafe and some flying monster jumps in through the window, very much like in Resident Evil, and it's almost as effective a jump scare as that, but I spent literally hours after that point just wandering around aimlessly in the fog.

Tom: So perhaps that also explains something about my like for Cursed Mountain.

Tom: But what we are going to talk about is Rule of Rose, the controversial PlayStation game.

Tom: Now, you actually played this, didn't you?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Well, this game was controversial in Australia.

Tom: It was controversial all over the world.

Phil: Well, it wasn't controversial in the United States.

Phil: I mean, this game did not raise an eyebrow whatsoever, and it was released by Atlas for the PlayStation in

Tom: Yup.

Tom: Rule of Rose was notable for the controversy it created due to the perceived erotic undertones to the game, which featured a cast of minors.

Tom: For that reason, Sony did not originally want to publish it, but Atlas, who liked to publish obscure, controversial Japanese shit, stepped in and took the reins of publication in

Tom: Meanwhile, the European Union Justice Minister criticized the game, saying it contained obscene cruelty and brutality.

Tom: He also called for the pegging classification system to be changed, which annoyed various European Union members because Franco Frattini is a dick.

Tom: And by the way, Franco Frattini is, was at the time the Justice Minister.

Tom: So at the same time, three French deputies introduced a bill calling for the game to be banned, claiming that the goal of the game was to tape up, sorry, to rape, beat up and kill a little girl.

Tom: Which sounds like an art house film.

Tom: Red Ant, who were Australian distributors and are now defunct, as most of the Australian games industry is, were going to distribute the game in Australia and New Zealand, but decided not to go ahead with it before even submitting it to the OFLC, as presumably it probably would have been banned anyway.

Tom: In a group of European Parliament members presented a motion for a European Parliament resolution on the ban on the sale and distribution of Rule of Rose in Europe and the creation of a European observatory on trials for the minors, which probably consisted of compulsory telescope inspection of children's rectums for evidence of rape.

Tom: Rule of Rose was not released in the UK due to this rather over the top reaction, which was clearly a political move by the European Union, as we have to remember the UK is generally pissing off the European Union due to their size and power.

Tom: It was nevertheless released in the rest of Europe.

Tom: In the UK, review copies had already been shipped out to reviewers when the announcement that it would be released was made.

Tom: Peggy had this to say about the controversy.

Tom: I have no idea where the suggestion of in-game sadomasochism has come from, nor children being buried underground.

Tom: These are things that have been completely made up.

Tom: We're not worried about our integrity being called into question because Mr.

Tom: Fratini's quotes are nonsense.

Phil: I played the game.

Phil: I enjoyed the game.

Phil: I was creeped out by the game.

Phil: I only stopped playing the game because of poor game design.

Phil: There came a point in the game where basically they have a puzzle level where you have to walk from room to room in the correct sequence and it has a bad camera to start with and is terrible.

Phil: In terms of its overall presentation, the game is brilliant.

Phil: I would say that the protagonist is years old.

Phil: Please.

Phil: I mean, she could not be older than

Tom: This is a Japanese game, though.

Tom: You have to remember.

Phil: And I understand why they're saying she's but she couldn't be older than

Phil: This is a horribly sadistic game about bullies, basically private school bullies.

Phil: I mean, there's a scene where a girl is put into a brown Hessian sack and then kicked relentlessly by other children.

Phil: There's allusions to sexual activity between minors.

Phil: I mean, if a game were to get an AO rating, this would be a game that should get an AO rating.

Phil: And it didn't get one in the US probably because it was released by Atlas and no one really gave a shit.

Phil: It had such a low run.

Phil: And I remember buying it because I knew I was moving to Australia.

Phil: And I was like, OK, I know this is a collectible game.

Phil: I know I won't be able to buy it in the country I'm moving to, so I better pick it up now.

Phil: And I particularly remember stuffing it between copies of like FIFA and NHL and very normal games.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: But when in playing it, I thought it was a really compelling game, but it's frankly disgusting and frankly shocking in its content.

Phil: So, you know, Fratini is not entirely crazy.

Phil: I mean, I think you are crazy if you're a politician wasting your time talking about a video game when there are so many other social issues to discuss.

Phil: And also it's an artistic, you know, endeavor.

Phil: I mean, you'd be just as nuts talking about...

Phil: It's no less offensive than any Tarantino film, for example.

Phil: It does contain children performing acts of violence, which is, you know, disturbing, but that's what the horror genre is all about.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: So, yeah, it's one of my favorite horror games as well.

Tom: Yeah, and it's one of my favorites, even though I haven't played it.

Tom: I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of it and basically came to the conclusion that the cutscenes and the general presentation are great, but the gameplay looks absolutely horrendous and there's very little chance that I'm going to be able to play through the entire game.

Phil: Yeah, the gameplay was good to a point, but then when it gets down to you've got to go to the basement to find this thing before you can go to the attic, but you've got to go to the attic before you can go to the basement, you know, it's just full of backtracking and exploration and all the things that I hate in video games.

Tom: And easily the final and most important and notable thing about it was the trailer and random gameplay footage on YouTube inspired me to write a word novel, which is undoubtedly better than the game itself.

Phil: Wait, wait, wait, how many words?

Tom:

Phil: Ho, ho!

Phil: I thought you meant

Tom: No, no, not novels.

Tom: It wasn't quite that inspiring, no.

Phil: Okay, well, this is going to be something that we'll obviously be promoting in the future at gameunder.net.

Phil: Probably not.

Tom: I don't think we want to be associated with it.

Phil: Well, we'll set up another website for that.

Phil: So this closes out our horror special, unless I'm mistaken.

Tom: I don't think you are.

Phil: So please do follow me since Tom refuses to have a Twitter account.

Phil: You can follow me at gameunderphil on Twitter.

Phil: Visit our website, gameunder.net.

Phil: If you like the show or hate the show, each of our shows does have a comment section, and we really do want to hear about what you do or don't like about our show, so we can ridicule you and not adjust our show in any manner whatsoever.

Tom: I think we would adjust what we're doing, but we would include more of what you say you hate.

Phil: Oh yeah, and we'd ridicule you while we do it.

Phil: But you can also stream or download our show directly from gameunder.net, and you can subscribe on iTunes, RSS or Stitcher Radio, and also at laserlemming.com.

Phil: We're featured over there as well.

Phil: And we're going to close out this show this week with an original composition from one of our listeners, and co-hosts in the past, Arnie.

Phil: You can follow him on Twitter at arnieA-A-R-N-Y

Phil: He's got an original composition here that you wrote the music to, and he did the lyrics to.

Tom: Yep, the music, I sampled one of my songs, which sampled someone else's song.

Phil: And I think basically he's giving here a history of the survival horror genre in musical form.

Phil: And there's no better way to finish out a show like this.

Tom: Yes, well, I believe what he's doing is talking about the death of survival horror with a slightly different take on it compared to what you normally hear.

Tom: And also I did write the lyrics as well as the music.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: Wow, that is impressive.

Phil: So here we go, and thank you very much for listening.

Phil: Please tell a friend and subscribe to us however you can to let us know that you're listening.

Phil: Thank you so much.

Phil: This has been The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: One still felt in control of one's destiny.

Tom: And this feeling of being in control has become the pair, it literally is.

Phil: Thank you.

Tom: The poem was funny.

Phil: Shifting camera angles, and we're back.

Phil: The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Thanks for watching.

Rob: I'm excited to hear some names of the credit-free and terrifying spirits of this day.

Phil: Just be patient until he or she is dead!

Game Under Episode 4

Before getting into the news of the week Tom and Phil go over all the latest GTA5 news and focus on the evolution of the popular franchise

Stream Above or Download Directly Here (right-click then save as).​​  You may also listen to our shows using Stitcher.

Also, please subscribe to our podcast using RSS by clicking here.​​ Or Subscribe with iTunes.

GTA Special
0:07 GTA Through the Ages
24:15 We Watch the Latest Trailer

Introduction
37:22 Welcome to the Show!
39:45 One Last GTA Thing: Odin Sphere and how it is like GTA.

News
50:05 Eternal Darkness Sequel
58:19 3D Mario Coming by October
1:00:57 Respawn on Durango Only

YakuzaKillzONE Minute
1:06:48 Killzone and PS4 Controller
1:08:47 Yakuza Restaurant Shoot-out

Game Impressions
1:11:40 Dyad
1:35:18 Resistance 3

Transcript
Phil: The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And that's what gave us DMA, which was the DMA, which is the company that has become Rockstar North.

DMA stands for doesn't mean anything. And they made games like Lemmings. Which was great. Probably one of the top ten games of all time, I'm guessing.

Tom: Yeah, I played the hell out of the shareware version of that.

Phil: That was made by Dave Jones, who went on to make Crackdown and then APB, the failed online MMO, basically.

Phil: It actually isn't that failed.

Phil: I mean, it's still surviving right now.

Phil: It's just his company failed.

Phil: Real time or whatever it was called.

Phil: And then they went on and made Grand Theft Auto and

Phil: And of course, this is also a Dave Jones project.

Phil: It was the only GTA not set in the USA with their expansion with the London set for the second game.

Phil: And then they stumbled along and made the Ngame Body Harvest, which is really the prelude before Grand Theft Auto

Phil: This was a game where you could hijack vehicles, get in and out, perform violence.

Phil: So it was basically like a third person isometric type view.

Phil: Not as pronounced, truly isometric, not top down like the early GTAs, but you could run around, hijack cars and basically just do what you want.

Phil: And God said, let there be light.

Phil: And there was light.

Phil: And this brings us into Grand Theft Auto

Phil: This was a game that at Ethat year, most gaming journalists said that they were there and they saw Halo, and that's what they were excited about.

Phil: And then Rockstar Take-Two had this little tiny stroll up to the side for Grand Theft Auto that no one paid any attention to.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto of course, had the silent protagonist Claude and really just completely revolutionized the gameplay.

Phil: Will Wright famously said that he played it and he was like, oh, wait, so I can basically get into any car I want.

Phil: I can be an ambulance driver.

Phil: I can be a firefighter.

Phil: I can be a taxi driver.

Phil: I can walk around.

Phil: I can do what I want.

Tom: And murder prostitutes, don't forget.

Phil: Murder prostitutes, taking money back.

Phil: I mean, just probably, I mean, just a great game.

Phil: And then a year later, they released Vice City and, of course, San Andreas.

Phil: They're two great works.

Phil: Vice City and San Andreas, yeah, I like San Andreas best.

Phil: It does have a game ending bug in the original PlayStation release of it, which is what stopped me from beating that game.

Tom: That's your excuse anyway.

Phil: That is my excuse.

Phil: Have you beaten San Andreas?

Tom: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Okay, the mission where you were in San Francisco and you have to fly the little planes around and blow up three dudes' vehicles.

Phil: What format did you play that on and how did you go in that mission?

Tom: PSand this was many, many years ago, so I have absolutely no idea.

Tom: I do remember though that I deliberately avoided getting the game ending bug.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: Yeah, I knew about it before playing, so that probably helped.

Phil: Yeah, well, the bummer thing is that that mission comes early in the game, fairly early in the game.

Phil: I mean, you do have to get up to San Fierro, but I tried it and I failed at it.

Phil: I'm like, okay, whatever.

Phil: It's just a pointless little side mission.

Phil: It doesn't matter.

Phil: I went on with the complete rest of the game, you know, going to Vegas, the whole thing.

Phil: I was probably at that point hours into the game, and basically it's like the last icon on your map, so you have to beat it before they'll unlock the final San Andreas levels, and I tried everything.

Phil: I tried just playing it to death.

Phil: I probably played it for like two weeks straight.

Phil: I tried cheats that would, you know, slow down the clock, speed up your playing.

Phil: I couldn't beat it at all, which is the greatest shame, because it was up to that point my favorite GTA era.

Phil: Now, of course, in that time, there were also two other lesser played GTA games, Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories, primarily released on the PSP and then later released on the PS

Phil: Did you play those ones?

Tom: No, I did not.

Phil: Yeah, those were really my favorites.

Phil: My favorite GTA game is Vice City Stories, the one that features Phil Collins.

Tom: So you like to eat more than San Andreas?

Phil: Yes, I do.

Phil: It was the last one they released, and it uses the same engine and everything else.

Phil: And it was really the high point of the GTA series.

Phil: Being from Los Angeles, obviously, I like the San Andreas game for many, many reasons and the soundtrack and all the rest of it.

Phil: But Vice City Stories was really them understanding completely what it was that they were doing.

Phil: And it was the last game they made on that engine and the best game I found in a GTA series.

Tom: I've got a reputation for being a lot more focused than the console games.

Phil: Yeah, very much so.

Phil: And that's because, of course, they were released on the PSP initially.

Phil: They had the UMD, so they're a lot tighter and a lot less flab.

Phil: God saw the light was good and he separated the light from the darkness.

Phil: So, then you have GTA IV.

Phil: And, I mean, it's amazing when you go back and play GTA IV now, like, Niko's using a feature phone, not a smartphone, you know.

Phil: It does seem like an age ago.

Phil: They radically changed the driving in that game.

Tom: Yeah, they made it a lot heavier and less arcade-y.

Tom: It's still very arcade-y, but yeah.

Phil: Yeah, which initially I choked at, but eventually grew to love.

Phil: What are your thoughts, capsule summary of GTA IV?

Tom: Well, as a GTA game, I think it is a complete and utter % failure.

Tom: Now, the thing is, what they were doing, as far as I can see, is they basically realised, okay, our mechanics in GTA, the shooting, the driving and everything, are all basically a load of crap, right?

Tom: There's nothing particularly good about how cars feel to drive in the old GTA games, and the shooting was absolutely horrible, right?

Phil: I completely disagree.

Phil: I found the driving...

Phil: I mean, it wasn't burnout quality.

Tom: No, no, no, I'm saying in the old ones.

Phil: No, I'm talking about the old ones.

Phil: In the old ones, I mean, like, it wasn't like Sleeping Dogs quality, where it is on the standard of a burnout, right?

Phil: But it was still enjoyable.

Phil: I mean, they had the great physics.

Phil: That's where I learned how that if a cop car is in front of you, you basically just tap, you know, the rear near the trunk, and it will spin out.

Tom: I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable to drive.

Tom: I just mean that there wasn't a great amount of depth to it, right?

Tom: It was a very simple system that was designed around getting the most fun of it from not just the simple joy of driving, but what you were doing, right?

Tom: So you could play around with the physics, et cetera.

Tom: All the cars sort of felt the same except for some sports cars.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: The sports cars felt light, right, as a sports car does, and flighty, and if you went too fast around a corner, you'd flip out.

Phil: The heavier cars, the older cars, like the station wagons, had poorer control and felt heavier.

Phil: If you had an armoured car, you knew you were driving an armoured car, you'd be spitting out exhaust and be slow and heavy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, I thought it showed a pretty nuanced demonstration of different automobiles.

Tom: But that's the thing.

Tom: It's got like several archetypes in it, right?

Tom: It's got...

Phil: It's got about four archetypes.

Tom: But there's much more than four different cars in there, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So, once again, take this as a slight exaggeration, what I'm saying, because I don't disagree with what you said there.

Tom: But in GTA IV, they took that to a much higher level, where most of the games felt...

Tom: Most of the cars felt very different, even within their own class of cars, right?

Tom: So there were sedans and hatchbacks, just normal cars that felt quite different.

Tom: And there was a big difference in most of the sports cars, et cetera, right?

Tom: You don't think so?

Phil: No, I do think so.

Phil: I felt that in GTA IV...

Phil: I mean, if you were driving a Mercedes Coupe, you really felt like you were driving a Mercedes Coupe.

Tom: So that's what I'm saying, is they took the elements of the older GTAs and turned them up to right?

Tom: So they took what we had, four archetypes for all the cars in the entire game, right?

Tom: And they then applied that to making each car feel unique and different.

Tom: And this applied to...

Tom: So then they changed the shooting.

Tom: They made it a much more traditional sort of shooting thing.

Tom: And they also changed the mission design, trying to make the mission sort of play out more as you would expect a normal shooter to, right, as well.

Phil: How do you...

Phil: What do you mean?

Tom: So as opposed to in GTA, the old GTAs, where you basically went somewhere and there was a huge amount of people to shoot, and you just shot them all.

Tom: Here you have like a level to move through, and you have to go from cover to cover, and that sort of thing.

Tom: And the missions were also more...

Tom: The pacing was more nuanced, right?

Phil: That is a great insight, because yeah, in the old GTA s, it was more of an open world type.

Phil: We're going to drop enemies on this open world map, go.

Phil: But in Grand Theft Auto IV, they actually designed the shooting situations, like the famous museum heist, or the scene at the...

Phil: I think it was like an iron smelting plant or something like that, where you were playing it as you would a proper shooter.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And the thing is, though, the thing I think that they just missed here was they had all these core elements that were actually pretty good, right, and improved from the previous games, but I didn't really feel like they brought them together to form the one cohesive experience, which is what the older GTA games were just incredible at.

Tom: They took all these small elements and more limited elements than in GTA and just made this unbelievably engaging and enjoyable experience out of them.

Tom: Here, I thought they didn't really bring them together to form that whole cohesive whole, which was basically my major problem with GTA apart from the story where they basically attempted to move from doing ridiculous parody to satire, where they didn't just want to make fun of a Mafia story.

Tom: They wanted to also give you the feeling of experiencing a good Mafia story while also making fun of it.

Tom: And maybe after their experience with Red Dead Redemption and the like, at the stage they did this with GTA they just did not have the skills to pull that off whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, I think you're right.

Phil: I mean, Red Dead Redemption obviously showed a level of maturing that they had not yet reached with GTA

Phil: You almost, from an outsider's perspective, because the Hauser brothers are so silent, you almost think about, well, is it one Hauser who wants to be Scorsese and one Hauser who wants to be Mad Magazine?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know, and then they're constantly fighting.

Phil: But I think at the same time, that's what makes GTA so appealing.

Phil: And it has from the very beginning.

Phil: I mean, right from the start, GTA it is both a notion of this is a very violent and, you know, to some tastes offensive game, but it's also Mad Magazine.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So I think that may be what makes it special.

Phil: And so when you take a game like Red Dead Redemption, yeah, it's going to appeal to more mature tastes, but you've got to wonder if it's turning off the younger set who might want more of the Mad Magazine type stuff.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And creating space for franchises like Saints Row.

Phil: In Grand Theft Auto IV, I did not...

Phil: I mean, I was addicted to the game twice because I played it for great periods of time, like years apart.

Phil: And I really was addicted to it, which means I must have liked it.

Phil: I'd sit down in Nico's apartment and watch the TV shows, you know, watch Ricky Gervais and, you know, the animated cartoons and stuff like that.

Phil: But the things that make it my least favorite Grand Theft Auto game is probably the aspects of they played out the missions way too much.

Phil: Like, you were doing missions for that guy in the Italian restaurant for way too long.

Phil: And at a certain point, it's like, okay, I've done like five missions for this guy.

Phil: And every time he says, if you do this one thing for me, then I'll tell you what you need to know.

Phil: And it's like, you, at this point, you're a high level assassin.

Phil: You could basically just grab this guy, take him over to the, you know, the woodchipper and get the information you want for him as opposed to going out and killing people and putting yourself in risk of getting arrested.

Phil: And that just happened mission after mission after mission with these small fish telling you, hey, just do this one more thing for me and I'll tell you what you need to know.

Phil: And it's like, no, I mean, it just got tedious.

Phil: So the other thing I really didn't like about it was the whole feature phone stuff with girlfriends calling you up and your cousin calling you up and the rest of it.

Phil: I mean, you could ignore it, but you couldn't ignore it.

Tom: It's GTA, so you've got to be interested in everything that's going on.

Tom: So you can't just ignore a feature in GTA, especially if it's been shoved in your face.

Tom: You're compelled to look into it, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: And so it was with...

Phil: And that was a failing of more of the characters, right?

Phil: So when you had that FBI, CIA bitch, double agent calling you up, wanting to go bowling or whatever, she wasn't a compelling character.

Phil: She wasn't scully.

Phil: She wasn't something interesting.

Phil: Now, when Brucey came along, it was like, yeah, every time Brucey called, I was up for it.

Phil: I'm like, yeah, man, let's go.

Phil: Let's go steal some helicopters or whatever the fuck it is you want to do because he was a cool character.

Phil: But that was few and far between.

Phil: So it wasn't for me that...

Phil: My favorite Grand Theft Auto IV Euro game is Lost in the Damned.

Phil: And I think that if people are going in to play Grand Theft Auto V, they really are doing themselves a disservice if they don't first play Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony.

Phil: These games can be beaten in to hours.

Phil: And they really will set you up for a evolution that's occurred at Rockstar North that you may not be aware of.

Phil: Because of the shortness, basically what happens in Lost in the Damned and Gay Tony is they interweave the story of a biker and a security guy for a bar.

Phil: It's not called a bumper.

Phil: What are they called?

Phil: Bouncer.

Tom: Bouncer.

Phil: Right.

Phil: In Gay Tony, you play the role of a bouncer for a guy who owns nightclubs.

Phil: Gay Tony.

Phil: You don't play as Gay Tony.

Phil: And in Lost in the Damned, you're basically playing a guy who is in a, you know, a Hells Angel type motorcycle gang whose leader has recently come back from jail.

Phil: You've been in charge.

Phil: The leader's come back from jail, and he's trying to relinquish control over the group in subtle ways.

Phil: So you're trying to play deference to this guy because you love and respect him, but at the same time, the leader is kind of a fuck up, and he's trying to basically undoing all the progress that you've done.

Phil: At first, when I played Lost in the Dam, I was repulsed by the content.

Phil: I am not a member...

Phil: No, no, Lost in the Dam.

Phil: Yeah, because I'm not a member of a biker gang, and I find them typically...

Phil: I know this is a shock to most of our listeners, but I'm not a member of a biker gang, like the Thinks or the Hells Angels, and I find what those groups do to be mostly repulsive.

Tom: I'm offended by this, as a member of a biker gang.

Phil: You would probably like Lost in the Dam right off the bat, but for me, these were the truest characters that have ever been portrayed in video gaming, other than some of the characters that you see in games like Enslaved.

Phil: I mean, these were real people.

Phil: You were living in a real setting.

Phil: It doesn't glamorize violence, and it was just a real evolution for Rockstar.

Phil: Gay Tony went back basically in response to the Saints Row franchise and embraced all the craziness that was missing from Grand Theft Auto but present in Grand Theft Auto San Andreas and...

Tom: By City.

Phil: By City.

Phil: But they also include some, I mean, amazing shooter sequences.

Phil: There are some first-person or third-person shooting sequences in Gay Tony that rival Call of Duty at its highest level, where you're going through shooting up office buildings or retail locations, taking cover.

Phil: It's just a really amazing thing.

Phil: And then another thing that Gay Tony added...

Tom: We really like saying things are as good as or better than Call of Duty on this podcast.

Phil: We are.

Phil: I mean, basically, I think on our website where we post our reviews, we should just change our scoring mechanism to...

Tom: We're saying as good as or better than Call of Duty.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: And then at the end of each level in Gay Tony, they do like a Ninja Gaiden thing where they will rank your performance, like how many secrets you found and the time you beat it in or like the end of a Doom level.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And I can see that coming back.

Phil: So how does all of this inform Grand Theft Auto V?

Phil: Basically, in Grand Theft Auto IV, they had the three different stories.

Phil: They showed them intertwining, and it was brilliant.

Phil: I mean, you go back to that museum heist and you play it in the first game as Niko.

Phil: You play it in the second game as the biker.

Phil: You play it in the third game as the gay Tony bouncer dude.

Phil: And they have all of the same scenes, but from a different angle in a Tarantino kind of way.

Phil: And it's brilliant, and they know it's brilliant.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto IV would have been a much better game if they had had hours of Niko, hours of Lost in the Damned, and hours of gay Tony.

Phil: And that's what it looks like what we're getting with Grand Theft Auto V.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You did not play either of those expansions, right?

Tom: No, I did not.

Tom: GTA IV put me off playing any other GTA IV games.

Phil: Well, what if I were to tell you that there were games available that were like GTA IV, but a third of the length, way more intense, contained better gameplay, better characters and better story and dialogue?

Tom: Well, what if I tell you that I bought the complete GTA pack on Steam for $for this very purpose?

Phil: And what if I were to tell you that you should probably play them sooner rather than later?

Tom: I would say if they're about hours each, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon.

Phil: So, God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.

Phil: And so it was...

Phil: Which brings us to GTA Chinatown Wars, a game that stands out by itself as an island.

Phil: Released initially for the DS, eventually it came out for the PSP and then the iPhone.

Phil: My two favorite GTA games are Lost in the Damned and Chinatown Wars.

Phil: It has an Asian-American protagonist.

Phil: And it's really a great game.

Phil: It's basically like an Asian drug dealer.

Phil: I love that game.

Phil: I think it's amazing.

Phil: In fact, just thinking about it right now wants me to go back and play it.

Tom: And this didn't do too well, though.

Tom: And you've got this theory that Asian protagonists don't sell well, right?

Phil: Well, non-white protagonists don't sell.

Tom: Okay, so black ones are fine and Latinos are not fine.

Tom: I mean, black and Latinos are not fine either.

Tom: Is what you're saying.

Phil: I think in the Rockstar world, they understand that if they set a game outside of the United States of America, it will not sell.

Phil: And if they have a protagonist that is not European, that it will not sell.

Tom: So explain San Andreas to me.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, that's the exception, obviously.

Phil: I mean, San Andreas came at a point where the PlayStation had the maximal install base and off the back of two incredibly successful video games.

Phil: I mean, people were not going to buy San Andreas just because it had a black protagonist.

Phil: And also in Western culture, he was playing a hip hop type character.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Phil: Which is widely accepted by the greater community.

Phil: If he were a black college professor, I'm not quite sure that it would have sold as well.

Phil: In fact, Vice City Stories...

Tom: I'm not sure if Grant Tessaloto were the whites.

Tom: College professor is the main character.

Phil: It would have sold as well either.

Phil: Vice City Stories, you play the part of an African American also, but he's a member of the military.

Phil: So, I don't know.

Phil: People say all the time, why don't they do a GTA in London?

Phil: Why don't they do a GTA in Paris?

Phil: Why don't they do a GTA in Budapest or whatever?

Phil: It's just not going to happen.

Phil: Which brings us up to Malachi.

Phil: Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung on your face.

Tom: Faces.

Phil: Faces, sorry.

Phil: I got that wrong.

Tom: I don't mean to correct you on knowledge of the Bible, as you are the preacher.

Phil: And so the question is, will Grand Theft Auto V corrupt your seed?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: And will it spread dung on your face?

Tom: Undoubtedly.

Phil: Actually, it was Saints Row that spread dung on your face.

Phil: They had the sewage trucks.

Phil: So do you want to watch the GTA V trailer?

Phil: You haven't seen it before, right?

Tom: Correct.

Phil: So are you ready to watch it?

Tom: I'm ready to watch it.

Tom: I don't want to watch it, but I'm going to watch it for the sake of the podcast.

Phil: All right.

Tom: So do I need to click on one of these people?

Phil: I'm just going to click back early on the timeline.

Phil: There you go.

Phil: And then we'll watch them in order.

Phil: First, the one is Michael.

Tom: So I'm top of the sky jogging.

Tom: Pilates.

Phil: Basically, we see a Tony Soprano type character living in Los Angeles.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And he's got an upper middle class lifestyle.

Phil: He's miserable, even though he's rich and has everything.

Phil: You see cash trucks exploding.

Phil: He's talking to his therapist here.

Tom: And he's got a very small mouth and some sort of speech impediment.

Tom: And it looks like he's having a stroke when he speaks.

Phil: Oh my god, there's a shotgun, a bank heist, helicopters.

Phil: This is fucking awesome.

Phil: Oh, someone just got shot.

Phil: A jet and a plane and cops.

Tom: Cars exploding.

Phil: And the guy says, I think you need a therapist.

Tom: That guy looked rather unhealthy to me.

Phil: All right, we're going to pause here.

Phil: So we just watched the Michael trailer.

Phil: That was damn impressive.

Phil: How are you not impressed by that?

Tom: I'm not impressed by it.

Tom: I never said I wasn't impressed by it.

Phil: Don't you want to pre-order the game right now?

Tom: No.

Phil: Holy shit.

Phil: Did you see the jet?

Tom: No.

Phil: And the helicopters and the guy, the Tony Soprano and the therapist.

Phil: I think you have a violence problem.

Phil: Come on.

Tom: It looks good.

Tom: It looks good.

Phil: I want to take this game, put it in a syringe and inject it into my arm.

Phil: This looks amazing.

Tom: The thing that I take from this is the bizarre mouth of Michael.

Tom: That's the thing that stood out to me.

Phil: It's too small?

Tom: And the guy in the G-string.

Phil: I missed the guy in the G-string.

Tom: He jumped out of a window over a pop-flame.

Phil: That was the best part.

Tom: You go on about the cars exploding and shit like that.

Tom: If there was anything that would make you want to pre-order, it was that scene.

Phil: It's important to note, people at home, that Tom Towers' problem with Grand Theft Auto V is that Michael's mouth is too small and that he was distracted by the guy in the G-string.

Tom: No, that was the good part.

Tom: Oh, I'm sorry.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: That was the good part.

Tom: And you had a reasonable bulge, you see.

Tom: My problem is, I'm just thinking that there might be an issue with the small mouth compared to the size of that bulge, by the way.

Phil: Okay, so on to the Franklin part of the trailer.

Phil: You ready?

Phil: One, two, three, click.

Phil: Here we go.

Phil: Franklin, African American.

Phil: Okay, we got some sirens here.

Phil: We see some Grove Street hoodies.

Phil: Guy gets shot with that.

Phil: It looks like an AK.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I'm just waiting for someone to say, Oh, no, you didn't.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Oh, a Ferrari.

Phil: And cops, helicopters, strippers, butts.

Phil: And a lot of talking.

Phil: A lot of...

Tom: Well, black people talk a lot.

Tom: We all know that.

Phil: That's why Oprah was so successful.

Phil: Okay, now they're driving down an LA reservoir, Terminator style.

Phil: Guy gets shot in the head with a shotgun.

Phil: Shooting at a helicopter with a shotgun, that's not going to work.

Phil: It's clearly Grove Street.

Phil: They're in green.

Phil: Got an SUV going down the freeway, shooting at LAPD.

Phil: Guy in a white singlet, like CJ?

Tom: Yup.

Tom: That was less impressive than the first one.

Phil: Okay, so we'll pause there.

Phil: That was Franklin's trailer.

Phil: So, your impressions?

Tom: Disappointing.

Tom: I mean, that one was...

Tom: after the Franklin trailer, that's pretty damn boring.

Tom: It's a bunch of black people talking, then a strip club and a couple of police.

Tom: Right?

Tom: I mean, that's a major letdown after the first...

Phil: It is.

Phil: I was hoping for, like, a Will.i.am-type music video.

Phil: You know, the one where he's running and then he's, like, you know, in a car and he's on a bike and a helicopter and a jet plane.

Tom: I mean, you can't have Michael as the first one and then follow it up with something like that.

Phil: That's pretty poor.

Phil: I mean, how...

Phil: You know, the other thing is, how do you compete with Queen?

Phil: That should have been the end.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know?

Phil: Okay, so overall...

Tom: Pacing-wise, that shortly would have been better at the end.

Tom: Just build up to that as the climax.

Phil: Yeah, I think so, but I think they're probably concerned about people leaving before the end.

Phil: So now we're going to go into Trevor.

Phil: Now, do you know anything about this trailer at all?

Tom: I know, before watching this, I knew nothing about any of the trailers.

Phil: Okay, so you're pumped about Michael, a little bit let down about Franklin.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So you've got to be excited about conflict.

Tom: I think they could have put it off if they had a much better rap soundtrack.

Tom: If you stick in some good rap there to set the scene better.

Tom: I mean, the music was just sort of like a continuation from the first trailer.

Phil: The music in the Franklin section was just basically generic background music, whereas with the Radio Gaga, it basically made you want to...

Tom: It fitted what was happening, it fitted the class.

Tom: I mean, you've got to have something to go with the environment.

Phil: Okay, so now we're going to go on to the third part of the trailer.

Phil: This is for someone called Trevor.

Phil: Trevor.

Phil: Looks like a baseball player.

Phil: He's got a baseball bat.

Tom: Playing baseball Yakuza style, I think.

Phil: Okay, so we're seeing a trailer park in Southern California.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And it seems like he's interacting with Michael.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Okay, a biplane.

Tom: Strangling old people.

Phil: He's got lots of punching and...

Tom: I'm liking the level of male partial nudity so far that I'm seeing.

Phil: Okay, we're back in LA now, and he's using a shotgun to blow up a large truck.

Phil: He's playing country music.

Phil: He's a little crazy guy.

Phil: He looks like the guy from Sling Blade.

Tom: You know, I think the reason they've put both these trailers last is that they're crap.

Phil: Yeah, that last one was poor.

Phil: I don't know why they did that.

Phil: That was poor.

Tom: Maybe they could have put it off.

Tom: Once again, the music choice is horrible.

Tom: They needed to go with something much more country and western than that.

Tom: That was like easy listening country and western, right?

Tom: You're going to hear that in a lift or something.

Tom: You're not going to hear that in a trailer park being blasted, right?

Phil: That was terrible.

Phil: And that is obviously the part that they're putting in to appeal to people who like GTA right?

Phil: I mean, that's going to be the crazy, wacky guy who's driving the biplanes and all the rest of it.

Phil: I would have much...

Phil: Okay, like the Michael character, the Tony Soprano-Maffiosa guy, that's like Rockstar's wheelhouse, right?

Phil: They own that.

Phil: They understand that.

Phil: They're basically that.

Phil: They're white people.

Phil: They get that, right?

Phil: The next character, that's fine.

Phil: I mean, they did a good job in San Andreas with that.

Phil: You know, that's fine.

Phil: They really didn't embarrass themselves there other than with the music selection.

Phil: But with the third one, why wouldn't you go back to the lost and the damned character or something like that, or the gay Tony bouncer guy, the Hispanic guy?

Tom: Wouldn't that be somewhat redundant, following Michael, going by what you said about these characters, given that they're more realistic, with more depth to them?

Tom: I mean, that's Michael, basically, as far as we can tell from this trailer, right?

Phil: I see what you're saying.

Phil: You're saying that because I don't want an arcadey character in my Grand Theft Auto, then if we just continue having prototypes of Michael, but different races, that doesn't really advance the game much, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No, I see your point.

Tom: I think the main problem is they failed to sell it so badly.

Phil: That was pathetic.

Phil: So we'll jump basically straight into the news that has come up about Grand Theft Auto

Phil: What do you got on that front, Tom?

Tom: Well, basically just one absolutely terrible and completely pointless and meaningless article by nintendoenthusiast.com.

Tom: So this is posted by Manashi, and this is apparently a feature, and this feature consists of him saying he asked his retailer source, which could well have simply been some guy that works at EB Games or GameStop, whatever it's called, in most of the world, and this guy said GTAwas being tested on the Wii U kits for some time, and that's what the story consists of.

Phil: So this guy goes into a GameStop and says, hey, what if you heard about Grand Theft Auto and the Wii U?

Phil: And the clerk says...

Tom: That he knows it's being tested on Wii U dev kits.

Phil: Then let's write up Astronian and that, goddammit, that's a retailer's source.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: They didn't want to be named, so it's an unnamed source, so you don't need to say that it was just some random guy in a GameStop.

Phil: My serious question surrounding this is, and this is a serious question, I know this only comes up once every nine shows, but my serious question is, why isn't this game being released for the Wii U?

Tom: Yeah, I would say GTA China could well have simply scared them off from Nintendo completely.

Tom: That did not do well, did it?

Tom: Or am I misremembering?

Phil: No, you're right.

Phil: No, no, no, it flopped.

Phil: I mean, they made possibly the greatest non-RPG DS game ever, right?

Phil: They put real thought into how to use the stylus, the touch screen, the dual screens.

Phil: I mean, it was a perfect execution of a DS game.

Phil: Which just blows my mind, because you think about all the developers out there who are amazing, who don't release games for certain platforms, and you're like, guys, if you only did this, it's great for us, the people who buy the game.

Phil: It's just terrible for them commercially.

Phil: So you think Chinatown Wars basically...

Tom: Because I wouldn't...

Tom: I really don't see Rockstar in general as being shy about releasing their things on everything right.

Tom: They go for as much as they can.

Tom: And so to me, Chinatown, the only area where they were slightly skeptical was Nintendo.

Tom: And so Chinatown Wars seem to me a test.

Tom: So they're not going to go and make a full console, GTA for a Nintendo console or even port one over.

Tom: They're going to make a slightly more niche one in a market where they think maybe we can tap in a different market than we're currently serving, right?

Tom: And so they did this and it just didn't hit the mark for the market that they were going after whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, and what supports your argument is that you know that ping pong game they made?

Phil: That was a natural to bring over to the Wii, and they never did.

Phil: They did?

Tom: Yeah, they did.

Tom: They brought that to Wii, don't you remember?

Phil: No, I don't.

Tom: Yeah, they did.

Phil: Sorry, listeners.

Phil: So yeah, okay, well, that was my question.

Phil: I just look at the Wii U, though, and I go, okay, it's got better tech than the current gen systems.

Phil: They have the money to develop it.

Phil: They have the time to develop it in terms of porting it over.

Phil: Why don't you do it?

Phil: Even if you don't use the game pad, which would have tremendous opportunities for them, I just don't understand it.

Phil: I mean, I really don't understand it.

Phil: I think this game should be coming out on the Wii U, and it wouldn't hurt them unless they think that the install base is so low or they think that Nintendo console owners are not in their demographic.

Tom: Well, that's the only plausible explanation that I can come up with with the DSbecause as I said, contrary to popular opinion around here, they did in fact port the ping pong game to the Wii, right?

Tom: They basically released their games on everything they possibly can.

Phil: Yeah, they do.

Phil: I mean, even iPhones.

Phil: I mean, even though they're terrible, terrible ports, so they obviously don't have any respect for their games.

Phil: Otherwise, they wouldn't be porting these over to iPads and iPhones and things like that, where the games just are broken, I mean, completely inoperable.

Phil: So, yeah, I mean, that's interesting.

Phil: Well, at this point, we do want to welcome everyone to episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Yep, that was our introduction.

Phil: I am Phil Fogg, noted producer of the Press Room Podcast at thevideopress.com, and also obviously, co-host of this award-winning gaming podcast.

Phil: And I'm joined weekly, well monthly actually, we do this podcast every month, but I'm joined monthly by Tom Towers.

Tom: See, people might think that we are currently releasing them every week, but what we actually do is every month we record about four podcasts at once, right?

Tom: And while we're talking about stuff that is, you might not think was released at the time of recording, we get the inside scoop on everything.

Tom: So we just have the whole things back because of embargo, but we do actually only record these monthly.

Phil: We do only record monthly.

Phil: Basically, we do a three-and-a-half-hour show which is our big show is what we call it, right, Tom?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: The big show.

Phil: We do the big show and that's done monthly.

Phil: But then after we do the monthly show, basically this is just what we do for fun, quite frankly.

Phil: We sit around and we...

Tom: You live very, very lonely and pointless lives.

Tom: This is the pipeline of our life.

Phil: So after recording the three-and-a-half-hour big show, we sit around for four to five hours and record other shows that we distribute weekly.

Phil: And we basically predict the news.

Phil: I mean, like with this Grand Theft Auto trailer, we knew it was coming out.

Phil: This show was actually recorded on January th of

Phil: So it's all scheduled.

Phil: So but we do appreciate you listening to The Game Under Podcast.

Phil: We encourage you to go to our website, gameunder.net.

Phil: And let's continue on with the show now.

Phil: I think you've got something, this befuddles me.

Phil: Something about Odin's Fear, the vanilla-ware game for the PlayStation

Tom: And this is in fact related to GTA, and you did your very best to completely ruin my premise early on, by the way.

Tom: Now short discussion of Grand Theft Auto.

Tom: Now Odin's Fear is basically an extremely Japanese game in that it's based around an extremely simple system of gameplay.

Tom: You've basically got a single attack button, right?

Tom: There's literally one attack button and you have the guard with that and you can do a limited number of attacks up to four which will then form a combo, right?

Phil: Oh wait, before we go on, Odin's Fear, was it only released on the PlayStation ?

Tom: I think it actually was ported to PC or something.

Phil: This is what I'm mystified by, is how are you going to draw some sort of nexus between Odin's Fear and GTA, so continue.

Tom: So it's got this extremely simple gameplay system, but it is done to extreme polish and perfection, right?

Tom: So that while it is a simple thing, it is extremely tight and everything just feels absolutely as it should, right?

Tom: And so then everything around that is kind of irrelevant.

Tom: The main thing is to get a few simple mechanics done perfectly.

Tom: And that to me is the main philosophy behind a great deal of Japanese gaming design, right?

Phil: No, I can go along with that.

Phil: Trust me, if I have an objection, I will raise it.

Tom: Okay, so now the thing that has always confused me a little bit, grant us auto, is the extreme amount of press it gets.

Tom: Now, I know it is obviously a huge game.

Tom: It sells a huge amount, is critically lauded, so it's going to get a lot of press.

Tom: But compared to the games of similar size and equal positive reaction, it has always seemed to be a level beyond that, right?

Phil: Yeah, I would say so.

Phil: That's the common consensus.

Tom: Yeah, so my theory for this is that it is basically the ultimate in Western gaming design in that it doesn't focus on perfecting any of the individual mechanics, right?

Tom: So, yes, the driving model was good, but the driving model itself wasn't actually the focus of the driving.

Tom: The focus of the driving was you're put in this world and you're going around doing whatever you want.

Tom: So the focus is not on the mechanics that make up the game, but the game that these mechanics result in, which to me is the main focus in Western game design.

Tom: And you can see this illustrated very easily in shooters.

Tom: So you've got something like Vanquish or...

Tom: Well, not Vanquish, because I haven't played that yet.

Tom: Binary Domain, which is...

Phil: Wait, wait, wait, you haven't played Vanquish yet?

Tom: Not yet, not yet.

Tom: So you've got something like Binary Domain, okay?

Tom: And the entire gameplay focus on that is what it's like to use the cover.

Tom: So using the cover is very responsive, you stick to it perfectly, the enemies you're shooting is very obvious that you're shooting them in a game, right?

Tom: You've got to aim for certain parts of them, and it's basically a boss battle with each individual thing.

Tom: So it's a very obvious and oppressive, for want of a better term, system of mechanics, right?

Tom: So then you compare that to a third-person shooter made by American developers where the cover might be automatic.

Tom: So you're just going to randomly stick to it, there's no tangible thing sticking to it, it's just there, you stick to it, you just shoot the people wherever you want, maybe headshot is going to do more damage, but the main focus is that everything is exploding everywhere and people are dying everywhere, left, right and center, right?

Tom: So it's about the spectacle as opposed to the thing that composes the spectacle.

Phil: So it's more like the Japanese have like a tradesman-like work ethic to their game where they're going to make the mechanics like in Switch Kill, you know, for a very specific reason.

Phil: I mean, as opposed to just, you're absolutely right.

Phil: Whereas in Western Design, it's like, come up with a concept, now let's build a game around it.

Phil: Whereas in the Japanese kind of development, it's more, as you see, sorry to say to our listeners, as in Yakuza, where there are very specific gameplay formats, like we will have a brawler concept, and we are going to perfect that.

Phil: We're going to make the brawler concept to the level of the sole caliber, or the arcade type games, or the golf games, or whatever.

Phil: And that's where a Western developed game like Sleeping Dogs would perhaps be like, well, we can't have the lead character play a round of golf in the game.

Phil: That doesn't fit with the overall theme.

Phil: So I'm tracking you, right?

Tom: Correct.

Tom: So to me, GTA is basically the ultimate representation of that, right?

Tom: Basically, the whole concept is done, everything within the game, sorry, is all about the overall aesthetic and concept and theme within the game, right?

Tom: So when you're driving around, you're in this awesome setting, and the focus isn't on the driving mechanics.

Tom: The driving mechanics are good, I'm not saying they're bad, but the focus is the fact that you're driving around fucking LA, right?

Phil: Right, and also like when they do focus on a specific thing, like when you go to the clubs and they have the dancing minigame, it's not substantial.

Phil: I mean, it's more of a distraction, more of a like, see this, you don't have to buy that game, we've got it right here in our game, right?

Phil: But, you know, whenever I see that sort of stuff in a GTA game, like the side stuff, like the dancing parts and the game, the gambling parts, the blackjack and Red Dead Redemption, it's kind of like, oh, I mean, what are you guys doing here?

Phil: You know, I mean, sell this as DLC if you want, you know, sell it under minigame adventures, you know, and charge people $for it.

Phil: It doesn't really add, other than just, they're just, you know, waggling their dicks saying, oh, you want a rhythm game?

Phil: We can make a rhythm game.

Phil: You know, oh, you want a poker game?

Phil: We can make a poker game.

Tom: And it's the complete opposite in something like Yakuza, where you could, in fact, literally use the Shogi games and whatnot as a perfectly valid virtual representation of them, whereas if you want to do the things that they offer in GTA, you're much better off going out and buying a game that's specifically designed around that, right?

Phil: Absolutely, yeah.

Tom: But in your case, you can do these and literally just spend, you know, hours playing Shogi or something.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, in the Yakuza games, like if you're using the, you know, the little claw, the space claw that comes down and picks up the item in the arcade or playing golf, I mean, the reason I don't have a current generation golf game is because the golf game in Yakuza is entirely serviceable.

Phil: You know, in the baseball cage simulator, I mean, these are full games in and of themselves, whereas in the GTA world, they're kind of dumbed down versions.

Phil: You know, someone took Friday afternoon to say, oh, let's throw a rhythm game in there, okay, let's do that.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, yeah, good point.

Tom: I think that's the perfect way to describe it.

Tom: You said basically the motivation is just to throw this in there to say that we've got it, right?

Tom: So the most concise way to put it would be that basically Western development is all about showmanship, right?

Tom: And Japanese development is all about craftsmanship.

Tom: And there is no game that is as much about showmanship as GTA.

Phil: Yeah, absolutely.

Phil: Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Phil: It's dick waggling.

Phil: I mean, that is what Rockstar is all about.

Phil: And that's when I said when you play in Gay Tony, some of the shooter levels where they're basically saying, look, if we wanted to, we could make a shooter better than Call of Duty.

Phil: If we wanted to, we could make a driving game better than Burnout.

Phil: It's entirely just one-upmanship, showmanship and all the rest of it.

Phil: Whereas if you look at a game like Yakuza, it's just quiet tradesmanship.

Phil: It's like, okay, well, if we expect our players to be entertained, maybe it would be nice to provide them at this point of the game to experience a game of Shogun.

Phil: And if we're going to include this, it has to be on the level of something that you pay $for on your iPhone.

Phil: So, yeah, that's an excellent point.

Phil: So does that close out your Odin Sphere GTA?

Tom: That brings us to the end of our GTA-related segment, I believe.

Phil: Yeah, congratulations, everyone.

Phil: I'm going to issue achievements at this point.

Phil: You have now achieved the gameunder.net GTA Podcast achievement, and this is worth points.

Tom: And the little description is that you made it through the introduction of the show.

Phil: Made it through introduction.

Phil: Now, moving on to bonus news.

Tom: Yes, the first thing up for our section of bonus news is the spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness, Shadow of the Eternals, has been released, has a teaser trailer released for it.

Tom: And we're not going to do a like commentary from it, but personally, maybe this was simply because it was following on from the absolutely terrible Viva within teaser trailer.

Tom: I thought it was a very, very, very effective trailer.

Tom: It evoked a lot of what was good about the original Eternal Darkness, and I know you're not a fan, but as a fan, the great thing about it was all the settings, right?

Tom: And so this basically had a bunch of people from different time periods in history and showed them off looking at the book and being chased by demons in grandiose settings and what not, right?

Tom: So I thought that was a very, very exciting trailer for a fan of Eternal Darkness.

Phil: Well, I'd agree with you even as someone who didn't enjoy the initial Eternal Darkness, which was the popular survival horror game released for the Gamecube, released by the controversial developer Dennis Dyack.

Phil: There are two things I want to clarify here.

Phil: Number one is I think the concept of Eternal Darkness is awesome.

Phil: Basically, you've got a Sarah Michelle Geller lookalike.

Phil: You know, her relative has died and she's going through his mansion and she's discovering things about his Indiana Jones-like life.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And then going into some sort of basically flashbacks, right?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Throughout time.

Tom: Flashbacks.

Phil: Yeah, so there's like a, you know, some sort of Iraqi or Persian level.

Phil: An Egyptian level.

Phil: And on and on and on.

Phil: Romans, yep.

Phil: Yeah, this game is almost too complex for its own good.

Phil: The only real problem I have with it, and I thought it was just a great concept for a game.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: But I personally hate backtracking.

Phil: And I hated going back through those levels time and time and time again.

Phil: As you do with each different generation.

Phil: And at a certain point, I was like, enough.

Phil: The second thing I'd say is, I think Dennis Dyack, even though I hated Too Human...

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Well, I didn't hate Too Human.

Phil: I actually really enjoyed Too Human, but it had a...

Tom: What do you do to games if you hate them?

Tom: You run over ones you don't hate with the tractor, or shoot them.

Tom: What do you do to the ones you hate?

Phil: Well, I infamously did run over Too Human after I beat it with a slasher.

Phil: Connected to a tractor.

Phil: And then I believe I shot it with a shotgun.

Phil: And then I burnt the remains using a diesel-fueled fire and posted this on YouTube.

Tom: This is basically what we were describing in the upcoming horror podcast.

Phil: Well, yeah.

Phil: The thing is about Too Human and Dennis Dyack is I think that if I were to make video games, I would be Dennis Dyack.

Phil: I think I would, as I do in this podcast, drive it home just a little too much.

Phil: It's like, OK, you had a good idea.

Phil: Now shut the fuck up.

Phil: OK, move on to the next point.

Tom: What I'm saying is if anyone wants to complain about the length, you're entirely to blame.

Phil: I am.

Phil: I am Babylon.

Phil: So what he's proposing here, right?

Phil: First of all, I saw the trailer, and I came into this as a hater.

Phil: Damn impressive.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: I was impressed.

Tom: And we should note, this is going to be available for PC and Nintendo Wii U, and it does look extremely good graphically.

Phil: It does...

Phil: I wouldn't say extremely good.

Tom: Maybe not extremely good.

Phil: It looks current-gen.

Tom: I would say high-end current-gen, though.

Phil: Well, that's because what you're seeing is CGI.

Phil: I mean, it's CGI on the same level, perhaps a little bit lower than The Witcher

Phil: But who knows what the gameplay is actually going to look like.

Tom: Well, I would be surprised if the PC version easily looks like that.

Phil: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised either.

Phil: I mean, basically, doing graphics like that these days is like falling off the onion truck.

Phil: I mean, you know, anyone can do it.

Phil: It's out there.

Phil: The tools are out there.

Phil: The thing that worries me the most about this is, obviously, Dennis Dyke's company was driven bankrupt through a frivolous lawsuit that he claimed against Epic Games.

Phil: Right?

Phil: I mean, this is a guy who is just stabbing himself, shooting himself in the foot, left, right and center.

Phil: He's obviously desperate for money.

Phil: At least, I mean, you'd have to be after what the judge awarded Epic for filing this frivolous lawsuit.

Phil: And then, as a result of that, this game is going to be released through episodes.

Phil: Each episode is going to be about two to four hours of gameplay funded through Kickstarter.

Phil: I mean, this sounds like nothing.

Phil: This sounds like less than tipping your toes in the border of public acceptance.

Phil: Basically, you're asking people for money for the first two-hour game.

Tom: Yeah, and then relying on it to do well, to do the rest.

Phil: And he's looking for $million for the first episode, which seems like a lot to me.

Phil: But then again, I guess, you know, this is including all of the setup costs and everything else.

Phil: He's got to get the...

Phil: I'm assuming he's got the engine license paid for already.

Phil: Yeah, I don't know.

Tom: For four hours of games, I would say, for four hours of a game that is not, say, some random point-and-click adventure game that you see popping up on Kickstarter constantly, $million doesn't seem too extravagant.

Phil: I don't know, man.

Phil: I just think of the things I could do with $million, which is, you know, in respect to this Dennis Dyke guy, he gets a bad rep because of what he said on NeoGAF.

Phil: But here's, in his defense, he is actually going, he waded into the community and threw himself out there, right?

Phil: And very few developers do that.

Phil: And second of all, this is a guy who could probably get a very, very good job just going to work for EA or Activision, you know.

Phil: He may not get a game director position or something that suits his ego or pretension, but he could get a very good six-figure job working for a traditional game company.

Phil: And he's sticking his neck out online to go back to intellectual property that several gamers, I mean, you know, hundreds of thousands of gamers hold very dear.

Phil: So he's putting himself out in the line again, and I have to respect that.

Phil: I mean, this guy has balls.

Phil: At the very least, he has character.

Tom: The other thing I find interesting about this is I've always basically wondered, and the answer is obvious, though, but why you don't see more sort of niche horror games in the same way that you see niche adventure games, right?

Tom: So to me, this is interesting to see if it is actually feasibly possible to release a survival horror game or series of shorter survival horror games in this manner, as many adventure games and other niche games are released, which you don't really see with proper survival horror games.

Tom: You're going to see horror adventure games released this way.

Tom: So I'm interested to see how it's going to do as a genuine survival horror game.

Phil: Yeah, at least not in this generation.

Phil: I mean, in the last generation, you had games like Cold Fear and Fear Effect.

Tom: Yeah, I mean this gen, definitely.

Phil: Yeah, but this gen, we're basically talking about, well, there are not any middle tier games, unless you want to count Condemned from Sega, which is amazing.

Phil: So all right, well, enough about Dennis Dyack.

Phil: You've got other news here.

Phil: I just read about this D Mario, a new Super Mario Galaxy is guaranteed to come out by October.

Tom: Yep, and...

Phil: So within five months, there will be a Super Mario Galaxy

Phil: This is absolutely confirmed, right?

Tom: Well, maybe not.

Tom: See, this article by CVG basically says there's going to be a D Mario by October, right?

Tom: That's the title of the article.

Tom: That's what they say.

Phil: Amazing.

Tom: Yep, this is based on comments they've got from Shelly Pierce, who is the PR Director at Nintendo UK.

Tom: Now, the only thing they've actually quoted is this.

Tom: From July onwards, we will launch a succession of Wii U titles and we will promote these extensively until the end of the year.

Tom: Margining activity will include TV, print online and PR, as well as comprehensive, experiential and social media campaigns.

Tom: She added, We have a strong line-up planned for Wii U in the second half of including the likes of Pikmin Wonderful those just out of the Wind Waker HD Wii U.

Tom: We are looking forward to launching these in the UK and for the opportunity to showcase the full potential of the Wii U.

Phil: Okay, I didn't hear anything in there about Mario D.

Tom: Nor did I.

Tom: Nor did I.

Phil: So, okay, the headline was what now?

Tom: The headline was, Nintendo plots Wii U resurgence with D Mario by October.

Phil: See, now, when I saw this story at the VG Press, I didn't click on it because I saw the word plots, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Like, you know, Iwata is glowering in his cave somehow and they're going, okay, this is how we're going to bring about the resurgence of the Wii U.

Phil: Okay, now, Iwata is French in my mind.

Phil: And what we will do first is, from July onwards, we will launch a succession of Wii U Tet hours.

Phil: But in October, this will reach a Crescendo, leading to, perhaps, now he's turned Spanish somehow.

Tom: Well, he's a European Renaissance man, so...

Phil: Super Mario Galaxy

Phil: Or

Phil: Ah, yeah,

Tom: and then

Phil: and then before October.

Phil: This is fucking nuts.

Phil: This is why no one should read CVG.

Phil: Goddamn.

Phil: This is a non-story.

Phil: It doesn't say anything about anything.

Tom: I just don't comprehend how they came up with this title.

Tom: Where did they get that from the comments?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: But, I mean, equally spurious.

Phil: I saw a story at Katakli this week that respawned, which is the Infinity Ward dude since the other dude bailed.

Tom: That dude broke life anymore.

Phil: No.

Phil: They basically said that respawn's new game is going to be a Durango exclusive, right?

Phil: And you have a quote about this, I think.

Tom: Well, I think the most fascinating thing was one of their sources, one of Katakli's sources, apparently told them that respawn's futuristic shooter will be designed for multiplayer.

Tom: In fact, they say the game is always online.

Tom: Now, there's two points here, okay?

Tom: We could take the first sentence here as some sort of terrible, terrible preamble into the second sentence, and that, oh, wow, their source is telling them that it's going to be always online, right?

Tom: But there were rumors of this ages ago.

Tom: Basically, as soon as the Adam Orff crap had broken, Microsoft or presumably someone at Microsoft basically leaked the rumor that, wait a minute, the always online is going to be up to publishers, and, for example, Call of Duty, it's a new game, the Call of Duty developers, or rather former Call of Duty developers, new game is probably going to be always online.

Tom: So even as a really terrible preamble, the thing it's moving into was already known.

Tom: So this is just completely redundant on every damn level.

Phil: The thing I love about this is one of our sources tells us that Respawn's futuristic shooter will be designed for multiplayer.

Phil: Well, what are your other sources telling you?

Phil: They're all telling us it's going to be single player only.

Phil: Yeah, that's absolutely fucking right.

Phil: The guys that developed Call of Duty for activism are bringing out a shooter, but guess what?

Phil: It has no multiplayer mode.

Phil: Yeah, that's right, we're showing the man, right?

Tom: Chameleon says, maybe, maybe, the reason they see one of our sources is that just to cover up in case it turns out that it's not always online, because that is still technically a rumor.

Tom: So they're just going to say, well, one of our sources was full of shit.

Phil: Well, I don't know that you know, but I recently have joined the Twitter community at Game Under Phil.

Phil: People can follow me over there, and I engage with the industry types as Twitter avails.

Phil: And I do have my...

Tom: That's a sort of cutting commentary on the industry to the podcast where they're not going to hear it.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: I mean, people feel that they can confide in me.

Phil: So I do have my own anonymous source.

Phil: So do you have any questions for my anonymous source?

Phil: Because I can just get on...

Tom: Well, I think the most interesting thing would be to...

Tom: Because clearly these two articles, they are, to put it lightly, full of shit.

Tom: So even with the things that are rumours, let's find out.

Tom: No, I can do this.

Phil: I can go on Twitter and I can ask my anonymous source.

Tom: If what these people are saying might too.

Tom: So my first question is, will there be a sequel to Super Mario Galaxy on the way you buy October?

Phil: Okay, I can check that.

Phil: I'm asking my anonymous source now.

Phil: And my reply is no.

Tom: Oh, that's not good, is it?

Phil: Well, I mean, this anonymous source is pretty well connected to me.

Tom: I find that far more convincing than that article.

Phil: So will there be a sequel to Super Mario Galaxy by October?

Phil: Again, I'm sorry to have to report to everyone.

Phil: My reply is no.

Tom: Yeah, that's a bit disappointing.

Phil: You probably don't have anything else to ask this anonymous source, but I have it on Twitter.

Tom: I've got three questions.

Tom: My next one is, I've got a couple written down.

Tom: I'm going to ask a different one.

Tom: Is the new Respawn futuristic shooter going to be designed for multiplayer?

Phil: Okay, well, the new Respawn should be designed for multiplayer.

Phil: My anonymous source says, all signs point to yes.

Tom: So Kotaku might be on to something there.

Phil: I think they are.

Tom: My next question is, is it going to be always online?

Phil: The answer to that is, reply hazy, try again.

Tom: Yeah, well, I think that's just indicative of the fact that that's still very much in the rumored sort of territory.

Phil: Well, I'm going to ask him again.

Phil: Because this guy can be kind of elusive.

Phil: He says, don't count on it.

Tom: So Kotaku's one of their sources is possibly wrong.

Phil: I think so.

Tom: I hope all the other sources are correct, though, for their sake.

Tom: Now, my next question is, will the Durango launch in early November in time for Black Friday this year?

Phil: All signs point to yes.

Tom: Oh, that's a pretty big scoop.

Phil: I'm going to hit Twitter right after this podcast.

Phil: This anonymous source, I mean, he should just shut up right now.

Phil: I mean, he's going to lose his job at this point.

Tom: Now, my next question is, will Reggie Phil's aim still beat Nintendo in ?

Phil: Outlook good.

Phil: Which is shocking.

Phil: I have to call into question our anonymous source at this point.

Tom: Yeah, that's kind of destroyed his credibility.

Phil: Yeah, I don't think Reggie's going to be at Nintendo in

Tom: You know why he's not going to be there is because there won't be a Super Mario Galaxy by October.

Tom: So someone's got to be the foreguy for that.

Phil: Bad call.

Phil: So it's time now for our Yakuza kills one minute, or Killzone minute, for those of you who are a bit slow.

Phil: I've got some interesting Yakuza news, but why don't you hit us up with what is the latest on Killzone?

Phil: There was some huge news about Killzone this week.

Tom: Yeah, well, the interesting thing about Killzone is, well, apart from the fact that they have been helping Sony with the PSas has been previously discussed, they're also going to be using the light bar on the controller in interesting ways.

Phil: That's the triangular shaped light that's on the front of the controller that we all thought was going to be some sort of move thing that apparently isn't.

Tom: So what they said was, like when players are losing HP, the color could change from green to red.

Tom: Like in the Killzone demo, if you were watching Stephen playing, that game had that function already.

Tom: People were watching the main screen, but Stephen was facing the audience, showing how the light bar color changes as he was hit by the enemy.

Tom: As he lost HP, the color was changing from green to red, and when he used the health replenishment, it went back to green.

Phil: Gimmick.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, this just doesn't add.

Tom: Yeah, that's...

Tom: I mean, you've got to be glancing down at it.

Phil: Well, you'd probably see, like, peripherally in your peripheral vision.

Tom: Yeah, but it's still distracting.

Tom: I mean, if you're in a shooter, you'll often very much focus on the very center of the screen, right?

Tom: That's why lots of modern shooters, instead of pulling your focus to the health bar, they have the screen go red and out of focus, right?

Tom: So that even if you're staring at the very center of the screen, you're still always aware of what your health is.

Tom: So if you take it a step further than that to what's on the controller, seems pretty pointless to me.

Tom: And on top of that, they're not going to just do that.

Tom: It's going to be that as well as the normal on-screen prompt.

Phil: I would bloody well hope so.

Phil: I mean, that just seems pointless.

Phil: In Yakuza news, well, there's no news about the game Yakuza unfortunately, this week from Sega, but I do have real Yakuza news, and that was that two prisoners were hanged in Tokyo on Friday.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Real people lost their lives with a noose around their neck that not even America does anymore.

Tom: Well, I think you'll find America's main form of execution isn't exactly much better.

Phil: Well, it's like lethal injection, actually.

Tom: No, but you need to look into how the lethal injection works.

Tom: It's not as if they're giving them a dose of nemutol.

Phil: Oh, you think they're poisoning hot dogs and then making them eat like hot dogs?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah, I think I read an Atlantic article about that.

Phil: But these two inmates were members of a Yakuza syndicate.

Phil: The pair were convicted of conspiring with an accomplice to gun down two rival gangsters at a family restaurant in the Chiba Prefecture in

Phil: At a morning news conference after the executions, Justice Minister Sadokaze Tanigaki described Miyagi and Hamasaki's crimes as nefarious and cruel, especially given that they fired eight shots in a place crowded with innocent bystanders.

Phil: Tanigaki also said the pair unleashed their hail of gunfire to, quote, save the face of their organization, a motivation he described as typical of the Yakuza.

Phil: Now, you haven't played Yakuza yet, right?

Tom: Not yet.

Tom: So this is life imitating art, is it?

Phil: This was in Yakuza so you've got that to look forward to.

Tom: I think we can safely say this was because of Yakuza then.

Phil: No, I don't think so.

Phil: I think real life influences Yakuza far more than Yakuza influences real life.

Tom: I don't think so when it comes to games and violence, let's be honest here.

Phil: Well, I think if Yakuza was to influence society more, it would be great because then we'd have orphanages all over Okinawa.

Phil: Now, you're going to be playing Yakuza fairly soon, right?

Tom: I believe so.

Phil: Your PSis getting fixed or you're buying a new one?

Tom: I think, well, actually I posted a Kickstarter for people to get me a PSand they've come through.

Phil: Because they should.

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: I mean, it's not to saw me, it's for the listeners.

Phil: Oh yeah, it's not for you.

Tom: No, I don't even like the PS

Tom: Basically, an act of self-sacrifice.

Phil: It's the same thing with me and the transvestite prostitutes Kickstarter I have.

Phil: It's not for me.

Phil: I mean, this is something that's going to inform my commentary moving forward.

Phil: Unless I have these kinds of experiences, I mean, who's going to listen to what I have to say about video games?

Tom: I mean, how could you be considered an authentic commentator on Grand Theft Auto if you have not had sex with transvestite prostitutes and murdered them?

Phil: That's exactly my point.

Phil: So we'll move on to game impressions now.

Phil: We've played a couple of games this week, right?

Tom: Yeah, well, I played one.

Tom: And I also played one interview, but we're not going to go into that because we already sort of did earlier on.

Tom: So I'm going to talk about Diad, which if you go to the website, you can find a link to my review of it.

Phil: Oh, this is Dennis Diad's game, right?

Tom: No, this is Sean McGrath's game, but that was a nice pun.

Phil: Okay, so everyone head over right now before you listen to any more of this podcast and go over to gameunder.net, and then I guess click on Written Word and then Reviews, and you'll see Tom's review of Diad.

Phil: This is a tube shooter that was a PSexclusive until like last week, right?

Tom: Yep, that is correct, and it was released on PC.

Tom: And You've Got a Lonesome Weight was released.

Tom: The Sean McGrath posted some extremely low-fi, just him talking to a webcam, right, in the early morning, covered in mucus from sleeping with a very disheveled beard.

Tom: And he's just like, OK, I'm going to release Diad on PC.

Tom: And a couple of weeks later, we had Diad on PC.

Tom: That's how you should do PR.

Tom: That's awesome.

Phil: I remember that, actually.

Tom: So that was awesome.

Tom: Now, you've read the review, right?

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: It's a great review.

Tom: Now, you also discussed the game with me, correct?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Now, I believe you'll remember me saying that basically the aesthetics in the gameplay are completely unlit, right?

Phil: Yeah, which I thought was kind of odd.

Phil: I mean, just the aesthetics of this tube shooter, just to describe to our listeners, it looks like a music visualizer, right?

Phil: I mean, lots of synesthesia, you know, going around and...

Phil: I mean, it's just basically like a res for this generation, right?

Tom: But, first of all, before we move on to this, what a fugitive point is, okay, so now in the review, though, you would have noted that I said in fact that there is a perfect symmetry.

Tom: This is not how it was described in the review because there is a perfect symmetry between the aesthetics and the gameplay, right?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: So, bear in mind that the review is basically full of stuff that is not true.

Tom: So this is going to be the opposite of that and is going to focus on not including any bullshit.

Tom: And I don't even need to justify why I included this sort of bullshit in the review because the keen reader would understand why, right?

Tom: So this is just going to be what the game is without any sort of bullshit.

Phil: So this is Diad the review uncut.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: Director's Edition XXX version, bitches.

Tom: What this actually is is Diad Remix Mode because in Diad, before we get to what Diad is, we're going to mention Remix Mode.

Tom: Now in Remix Mode, what you can do is you can alter the settings of the game.

Tom: So you can turn off the music, you can alter the music from being following the tempo of the gameplay, you can alter how the visuals behave, and you can alter elements of the gameplay, right?

Tom: So you're basically literally remixing the game on a very high level, right?

Phil: Can you use your own soundtrack?

Tom: No.

Phil: Is this the game that had the Beck song?

Tom: No, I don't think so.

Phil: Alright, sorry everyone, different game.

Tom: I don't know that, but anyway.

Tom: What this effectively does though, is it reveals all the tricks that Diet is using, all aesthetic tricks and all its gameplay tricks.

Tom: So for example, when you're playing, it might feel at first that the soundtrack is perfectly following what you're doing, right?

Tom: Now if you go around and mess around with the settings, you can very easily discover exactly what triggers the certain sounds.

Tom: And when you do this, you immediately realize that it is not at all dynamic.

Tom: It doesn't even come close to making it appear that it's dynamic.

Tom: Yet it creates this feeling that it is dynamic as you're playing it.

Tom: And it does this very simply and very, very brutally.

Tom: And it does it through complete and utter sensory overload.

Tom: So it throws at you so much noise, so many sound effects, so much music, so much visual stimulation that you're basically put into a state of confusion where you have no fucking idea what's going on, right?

Phil: Oh, well, I mean, like with the original REZ, in Japan it came with the vibrator controller.

Phil: It would be hard to outdo that level of sensory overload, I feel.

Tom: Yeah, well, I'm not sure about that.

Tom: Because REZ, the visuals don't seem that extreme level of sensory overload.

Phil: No, but with REZ, I mean, they did have that evolutionary, you know, you start out with basically line drawings and then it evolves up through polygons and it gets too close to a level, but nowhere near the level that can be provided through dyad in terms of visual overload.

Phil: But it's the same kind of concept, right?

Phil: I mean, selling a game with a vibrator is pretty much sending a message that we want to take over your body, right?

Tom: And now here's the thing, okay, this is all done, and I had to actually do research on this review because if you remember, I reviewed a game known as Prune a long time ago, right?

Phil: Yeah, oh, proun, C-R-O-U-N, right?

Tom: Yeah, but I think it's pronounced prune.

Tom: This was the first professional in inverted commas review I did.

Tom: So after doing this, I went along and read random other people's reviews of it, and the vast majority of them were just complete another bullshit, and the main problem was it's an extremely hard game, right?

Tom: And you have to become dedicated to it to really appreciate it.

Tom: It's like Demon's Souls.

Phil: Wait, this game or Prune?

Tom: Prune.

Phil: Prune.

Tom: And so these reviews, all their criticisms basically boiled down to them being shit at the game and not bothering and putting in the effort, right?

Tom: Now, this has always annoyed me.

Tom: Now, the whole time that I...

Tom: When I finished Dyad, I was like, okay, this was incredibly easy, but I didn't always get the highest score available on the level, right?

Tom: And I just could not bring myself to do it because there's no motivation to play through the levels and do better, because once you've done it, if you do it again, because it's basically just doing the same thing again, because there's no personality to most of the levels, right?

Tom: So I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

Tom: So I went along and had to actually do research on the game, looking up interviews and all that sort of thing.

Tom: Now, a fascinating thing on Joystick I found, and Joystick are all over this game.

Tom: They love it, and they've got so much press about it.

Tom: In a preview, one of the guys went and played Diane in some seedy hotel room with Sean McGrath, and who knows what else went on at this meeting.

Tom: Now...

Phil: Well, Sean McGrath, was he a reviewer?

Phil: That name sounds familiar to me.

Tom: I'm not sure.

Tom: I didn't do that much research.

Tom: So basically, after playing the demo, Sean McGrath asked him, now, didn't the sound go along really well with the gameplay?

Tom: Did you notice that?

Tom: To which the re-reply, it did.

Tom: And Sean McGrath said, well, I think you probably experienced synesthesia because it didn't, which is a true statement.

Tom: And here I think it boils down to where a lot of confusion about what synesthesia is comes from, and that is the description and etymology of synesthesia.

Tom: So synesthesia basically means a confusion of the senses, right?

Phil: Right, you're overwhelming the senses.

Tom: But the thing is, no, but it's not confusion in the sense of being overwhelmed.

Tom: It's confusion of the sense of things being mixed together, right?

Tom: Or you might say one thing confused for another, but it's on a more basic intuitive immediate level.

Tom: So it's not like you're confused into experience in something, right?

Tom: But people take this meaning of the word, completely misinterpret it, and somehow think that if you shout at someone incessantly, you kick them in the balls, you spit on them, you vomit on them, and while this is happening, they might think that this vomit has splashed on their dick because you're kicking them in their dick and they're so overwhelmed by the whole experience.

Tom: But in reality, the vomit was only ever on your face, right?

Tom: That's not synesthesia.

Tom: Synesthesia is very simply how someone experiences the world, as anyone would with their senses.

Tom: But the difference being, if someone hears something, for most people that is going to be an entirely auditory experience, right?

Tom: But to someone with synesthesia, this sound might also have a smell or have a shape, this sort of thing.

Tom: It's not in any way a confusion as it is experienced by the person involved.

Tom: It only sounds confusing to people without synesthesia, right?

Tom: Yeah, so attempting to have the player of your game in question experience synesthesia for you confusing them is approaching it from a completely backwards angle.

Phil: Well, I mean, from an artistic perspective, though, I mean, it's entirely acceptable.

Phil: I think it's something that Andy Warhol would have embraced.

Phil: I mean, if you've got a shortcut to confusing the viewer, I mean, that's basically pop art, right?

Phil: You're basically saying, here's something that you see every day, bam.

Tom: Yeah, but there's nothing.

Tom: But what I'm saying is, I'm not saying it's not a valid aesthetic to use.

Tom: I'm saying it just does not achieve in any way what the people that use it are attempting to do.

Phil: And yet you gave this game like a out of

Tom: Yes, I did indeed.

Tom: And well, that's because the sensory overload is actually an incredible experience.

Tom: The best part of the game is the final level.

Tom: And the final level is the ultimate symbol of everything that is good and bad about the game, right?

Tom: So the final level is you're basically going along.

Tom: It starts off in a normal race, and you just think it's a normal race.

Tom: So you're going along hooking together pairs of hooks and trying to go as fast as possible.

Tom: Then this normal track starts to disintegrate and disappear and just become this completely abstract thing, right?

Tom: The thing that it's closest to is, you know, the evolution scene in A Space Odyssey.

Tom: Are you familiar with that?

Phil: Well, keep talking.

Phil: I've watched the movie and I loved it, so...

Tom: Okay, well, the ..

Phil: It's like a long time ago.

Tom: Yeah, Space Odyssey evolution scene is, the guy is basically strapped into his seat, akin to a clockwork orange.

Phil: Well, I was actually about to ask you, actually, curiously enough, if you were to take a game and compare it to clockwork orange, can you come up with something on the top of your head?

Tom: No, I can't.

Phil: No.

Phil: Just for our listeners, and then we'll move on, I'd say The Warriors.

Phil: So, keep going.

Tom: So, it becomes this completely abstract thing where you basically, you still have a sense that you're going forwards, but there's no track, and it ends up disintegrating into just completely, basically, psychedelic patterns and the like, which slightly move if you do stuff on the controller.

Phil: Can you fail at the last level, or is it one of those kinds of things?

Tom: You cannot fail at it, but the...

Tom: No, but, here's the thing that I think goes beyond most games that are like this.

Tom: The reason I really enjoyed it and found it a fascinating experience is, while you cannot fail at it, you cannot actually complete the level without actually interacting with it.

Tom: So if you leave the controller untouched at the beginning of the level, for an infinite amount of time, you're gonna go through an endless loop of the first normal-looking racing visuals, right?

Phil: What I find fascinating about this is that you actually tried it.

Phil: You're like, oh, I can't fail?

Phil: Fine, put the controller down.

Tom: Yeah, well, that's the thing.

Tom: See, I mean, as I said, I actually had to do research this because I could have written a review.

Tom: And basically, my first reaction to this after considering was correct, but I didn't want to go down the prune route of writing a review where clearly I just didn't bother putting the effort.

Tom: I wanted to confirm that my ideas were correct, right?

Tom: So I went the extra length of testing this out.

Tom: And so this basically, even when you're not doing anything, that is to me a funny trick.

Tom: It's basically saying completely fucking with you, right?

Tom: It's saying, well, you don't actually have to do anything skill-wise to complete the level.

Tom: You're also not allowed to not do anything.

Tom: So it's still forcing you to do something.

Tom: It's the game completely in control, right?

Phil: Well, this kind of goes back to our prior conversation about QTEs and bosses as being a compromise between developers and players, right?

Phil: Where the developer is saying, okay, you don't want to actually play my game, but god damn it, I'm not going to turn this into a movie.

Phil: You have to do something to get through this.

Phil: It basically exactly maps back to what we were saying in the last podcast.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: And the last thing I'm going to say is basically the major problem with the game play is the aesthetics simply do not work as a fast moving racing game because of the extreme sensory overload.

Tom: So when you're moving really quickly, if they were to make it that it required really precise movements, it would be impossible to play because you simply would not be able to tell where the fuck anything was.

Tom: So this means that the level of skill required to move very quickly through the levels is very low.

Tom: So to work out a good line through a track, and to do this, what you've got to do is it basically boils down to linking together two nodes of the same color, which then is going to give you a speed boost or create a speed boost that you've got to move forward through.

Tom: And there's other things.

Tom: There's enemies where you've got to shoot and then avoid their counterattack and then move through the pathway they created.

Tom: Because of the extreme sensory overload, this is all really, really easy to do.

Tom: And they've designed the line through the levels.

Tom: So it's not like in a racing game where in Gran Turismo or Prune, you've got to spend a lot of time not just learning the physics and everything, but learning the track.

Tom: You've got to work out the best line.

Tom: And it might take you times to master a track, right?

Phil: I've always referred to Gran Turismo as a car PG.

Phil: I mean, it is about learning your craft, and the tracks are really, I mean, the battles, right?

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: The tracks here are just meaningless.

Tom: They all feel the same, and you can improvise a line through it and easily two-star almost every level.

Tom: And the vast majority, you can easily three-star every level, just improvising a line through it with no problem.

Phil: See, that was the great thing about Gran Turismo, a wipeout where you had like a Laguna Seca type thing, like where there was a distinction between the tracks and you felt like you could master them.

Tom: Yeah, and once again, to go back to another interview, he said basically one of the main intentions was to strip back a racing game to the bare essentials by removing all the problems with friction and physics, right, so that...

Tom: Now, this works.

Tom: In a way, it can work.

Tom: Prune is basically a racing game with all the bells and whistles completely removed.

Tom: It's just you working out the line of the track.

Tom: And while there is friction at play, because if you're turning, you're then slowing down.

Tom: So you've got to work out the smoothest pathway through a track, right?

Tom: Here, it could have worked if the tracks were well designed, but they're not.

Tom: There's one other way that he tries to make things interesting, and he does succeed here.

Tom: And that is with the trophy levels, which basically take the myriad different gameplay styles that it throws at you in different concepts.

Tom: And it actually uses them to create something unique and an interesting effect.

Tom: Whereas in the normal levels, it takes all these different gameplay concepts to create these personalityless, generic tracks that all feel exactly the same, even if they've got slightly different gameplay mechanics going on.

Tom: So for example, you might have to shoot an enemy, avoid its blast, and then go through its line, right?

Tom: In the trophy levels, it takes this concept and makes it extreme enough where you're doing something unique and you've got to actually learn how to do it well.

Tom: And I think those work really well.

Tom: And if he had made the rest of the game like that, it would have been really excellent.

Tom: And not just an interesting experience due to the...

Tom: basically trolling the player -and the brilliant soundtrack and excellent visions, it would have been an excellent game as well if he had put that much effort into the main tracks.

Phil: So, I mean, does it compare favorably to Prune?

Tom: Not at all.

Phil: Yeah, I wouldn't think so either.

Tom: Prune to me is...

Tom: that stands tall with any racing game full stop.

Tom: That is, as far as mechanics go and track design, that is an absolute masterpiece.

Phil: Which is amazing considering that Juice Van Dungan, the developer of this game, prior to Blob, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And for Prune, again, if you want to check this game out, it's P-R-O-U-N.

Phil: It's available only on the PC.

Phil: Yeah, you can play for free.

Phil: And it's on the racing.

Phil: It's just a completely different experience than one that you're going to have anywhere else in terms of racing.

Phil: So I do wonder, I mean, is it just an accident of fate that Prune hasn't been released in the PlayStation ?

Phil: Because it seems at this point that the PlayStation seems to be the format for indie games, right?

Tom: Well, you have to remember when this was made because this was just basically made by Juice Van Dongen and he used some other people for the music, basically.

Tom: I would say it was on a much, much smaller scale than even Dyad.

Tom: I mean, Dyad, Sean McGrath got a grant to make it.

Tom: This Prune was made completely off Juice Van Dongen's own back, right?

Tom: It was his own backyard, basement project.

Tom: And the other thing complementing the matter is he works for Ronimo Games.

Tom: So I don't think they would have necessarily wanted to be diluting their marketplace, where they might have wanted to release a game on PSN.

Tom: And they did eventually in the form of Awesome Noughts with Prune.

Tom: And I think back then the level of entry was lower.

Tom: Now you can basically make an indie game.

Tom: It's enough of a mainstream thing where you're going to get coverage everywhere, right?

Tom: Prune was just the very beginning where larger websites are going to consider reviewing something on the level of Prune.

Tom: And the only reason that got any press coverage at any large outlets was simply because it was so excellent and such an amazing concept, right?

Phil: Yeah, well, we even GameSpot didn't even bother to review it.

Phil: I mean, it has a Metacritic of

Tom: And the other thing is I think if it was released on PSN, it may not have actually been reviewed because I can imagine a lot of those...

Phil: Trust me, IGN would have reviewed it.

Tom: Yeah, well, IGN maybe.

Tom: But a lot of the coverage it got at medium level sites, I can imagine that a lot of those people reviewing it would have been people that were following this previously and may not have been interested in wasting their PR resources on looking into it or putting money into it themselves.

Tom: Because it was released for free, that lowered the level of entry even for a lot of reviewers, I would say.

Phil: Which basically makes Juice Van Dungren like the best man on the planet, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Here's a guy who's working for Ronimo, releasing Awesome Nights, and on his own free time, hey, let me just produce this amazing racing game on the level of burnout for free, and go from there.

Phil: We do have, we should say, and we'll turn live before the show, an interview with Juice Van Dungren that you conducted.

Phil: So, I mean, I'll have to tweet him as well and let him know about it.

Phil: I mean, this guy obviously loves games as much as anyone.

Phil: I mean, come on, that's fucking admirable.

Phil: If you haven't played Prune yet, P-R-O-U-N, find a way to play it because here's a guy that's basically doing this for free.

Phil: Check it out.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: And I'm just going to end, Dyad, on a different note.

Tom: And it's a question for you, okay?

Tom: So, you're saying that perhaps attending to illicit synesthesia through sensory overload is a valid tactic.

Tom: Now, when you're watching Fox News and Bill O'Reilly is shouting at you, are you experiencing synesthesia?

Phil: No.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And therefore, this is not a valid way to attempt to get people to experience synesthesia full stop.

Tom: Just because Bill O'Reilly, the background of his set isn't purple with a lava lamp.

Tom: Even if it was purple with a lava lamp, that's not going to make it any more synesthetic.

Phil: It's going to take a lot more than that.

Phil: So I'm going to go on to impressions of the game I've been playing this week, which is Resistance

Phil: Holy shit!

Phil: I did not expect this game to be this good.

Phil: This is an incredible, incredible arcade shooter.

Phil: So as a reference point, GoldenEyeSingularity, Half-Life Homefront, all of those games that let you carry more than two weapons.

Phil: I want to say it's an arcade shooter, but I don't even know what that means anymore.

Phil: It's not like in racing you have arcade racing and simulation racing.

Phil: So you have Burnout vs.

Phil: Grand Trees.

Tom: I think we can go back to one of our rating systems, and you can be a Call of Duty first-person shooter or a non-Call of Duty first-person shooter.

Phil: This is a non-Call of Duty first-person shooter.

Tom: So there you have it.

Phil: Which means obviously this is a franchise set to failure.

Phil: Amazing game.

Phil: I mean, really great game.

Phil: It does have the Half-Life animatronic NPCs that want to tell you a story and things like that, as with Bioshock Infinite apparently.

Phil: The worst thing about this game is it has the absolute most detrimental color palette I've ever seen.

Phil: And this was true of Resistance Ball of Man, the first game on the PlayStation

Phil: It just has this smog-colored sepia haze to it.

Phil: Which is entirely unnecessary.

Phil: It's set in or which was an era of aqua and peach and things like that.

Phil: But the game is just completely brown.

Phil: And I know a lot of people complain about that in these big selling games, but this game is the brownest game since Quake.

Tom: Does it fit the setting?

Phil: No, not at all.

Phil: That's the thing.

Phil: I mean, they could have done an Area where this is set in...

Phil: or a home front, where this is set in the United States of America, suburban settings, et cetera, et cetera.

Phil: It's just depressing to have to play this game.

Phil: But everything other than that is wonderful.

Phil: It's got great customization.

Tom: Depressing because the color is bad or because the color tone is depressing.

Phil: The color tone is depressing.

Tom: So you don't think perhaps that was deliberate and might fit the narrative?

Phil: Okay, fine, great.

Phil: That's great for an artistic statement, but not for a commercial one.

Tom: Well, that's what I'm asking.

Tom: Is the color palette bad or are you complaining about because you think it is a bad color palette or because you think it is commercially unviable?

Phil: I don't want to play the game because of its color palette.

Phil: Even though every other aspect of this game is incredibly amazing.

Tom: Okay, so you think it doesn't fit with the rest of the game then?

Phil: Absolutely not.

Phil: I mean, it does a disservice to the rest of the game.

Phil: I mean, it has amazing customization where you can, you know, change the speed of the camera to your liking.

Phil: So the default camera is kind of too floaty where it's going to cause nausea.

Phil: You can slow it all the way down.

Phil: It has a great story.

Phil: I mean, and a great setting, s America.

Phil: But it's just a depressing game to want to play.

Phil: And it's kind of kept me from playing it because it's like, okay, well, here we go.

Phil: Just because of the color tone set to it.

Phil: It is a little easy, which is something I seem to be saying lately, which might be a message that I need to play on hard rather than normal.

Tom: I think you're just bitter about my comments on Spec Ops.

Phil: It has short chapters.

Phil: It has fluctuating AI.

Phil: I mean, the AI can go from being amazing to walking up to a guy who doesn't see you and shooting him in the back of the head and he doesn't turn around until he's, you know, completely dead.

Tom: Is this part of a stealth sort of system or just out of stupidity?

Phil: What do you mean?

Tom: Like, is there some stealth aspect to the game where they want you to be able to sync up on people behind?

Phil: There is no stealth in this game whatsoever.

Phil: Yeah, what happens is basically like, what I try to do is I'm really good at gaming levels, so I can go into a level and outsmart the level designer and get into places I'm not supposed to be in.

Phil: And so the AI hasn't, quote, woken up yet.

Phil: So if you can get into levels where you're not supposed to be, you can just basically shoot these guys in the head and they don't move, right?

Phil: And AI is really hard, obviously.

Phil: I mean, it must be.

Phil: I mean, because AI is so bad.

Phil: Yeah, because it is so terrible.

Phil: So I'm assuming it's hard.

Phil: Maybe it's the easiest thing in the world.

Phil: Maybe only fuckwits are put in charge of AI.

Phil: But it is such a tough thing, because the AI can be % perfect, but then you find the flaw and then you're like...

Phil: Yeah, then you're like, oh, yeah, shit in this game.

Phil: Because I walked up to this guy and shot him in the head and he didn't do anything.

Phil: Which happens time and time again in Resistance for the PlayStation

Phil: So it's a great game, though.

Phil: It's one of those games where they keep unlocking the weapons.

Phil: And some of them obviously develop ratchet and clank, and they keep unlocking better and better weapons.

Phil: And you have access to all of them.

Phil: It's not like the simulation first-person shooters where you only have access to two weapons.

Phil: You can switch and change between any one of them at any time.

Phil: Graphically, it looks brilliant.

Phil: Unfortunately, it slavishly follows the Half-Life model, which is where, you know, I really can't put it better than that.

Phil: Everyone must know what that means.

Tom: The Half-Life model in what sense?

Tom: The graphics?

Phil: Well, yeah, yeah, the graphics and when you get to a cutscene, the people talk and you can walk away from them.

Tom: Okay, so in the presentation, yep, yep.

Phil: Yeah, in the presentation.

Phil: But, I mean, if you can pick this game up for, you know, bucks, I'd definitely go for it.

Tom: Have you ventured online, may I ask?

Tom: I assume you haven't.

Tom: No.

Tom: Okay, because I was wondering if people were playing that, because I've been watching a fair bit of online multiplayer videos, and it looked like it actually had quite an interesting online multiplayer mode as well, due to the large amount of bullets that people could take before dying and the heaviness of the weapons, and the interesting movement speeds.

Tom: It looked like it had a pretty unique multiplayer mode.

Phil: Well, depending on the weapons you use, I mean, some of these weapons are like one-shot kills, and others are basically sponge-type weapons.

Phil: So it really does depend on the weapon that you use.

Phil: But I think that you would really enjoy this game.

Phil: I think that any gamer would really enjoy this game.

Phil: And it's unfortunate that it was a PlayStation exclusive, because it really deserved a larger audience.

Tom: Have you played the previous two Resistances?

Phil: I played the first one, because it was the only game that you could play on the PlayStation for about months.

Phil: There was really no other games.

Phil: And I had the same approach to that.

Phil: That first game mirrored closely the first Uncharted in terms of its plot and pacing.

Phil: This one is also kind of weird, because it closely mimics Infamous

Phil: In Infamous there's this conceit that you are...

Phil: that there is this horrible thing that's coming from New York, and you're in New Orleans.

Phil: And in this game, it constantly is...

Phil: And in that game, it's like, you are miles from New York, you know?

Phil: And in this game, they do the exact same thing.

Phil: It's like, you know, you are now miles from New York, which is where you're heading towards, right?

Tom: So it's a road trip game as much as a first person shooter.

Phil: Yeah, it's bizarre.

Phil: It's absolutely bizarre.

Phil: So with that, I mean, I have no more impressions, so I think that's about all the Game Under podcasts we have left.

Phil: Please follow me on Twitter.

Phil: You can follow me at Game Under Phil.

Phil: We do solicit questions from our audience before each show, and you can also stream or download this show from gameunder.net.

Phil: We do encourage you to subscribe via RSS or iTunes, but you can also subscribe via Stitcher Radio, and you can do all that from our site at gameunder.net.

Phil: That's probably the easiest way to find us because if you go to those independent sources, you are not going to find us very easily.

Phil: So please go over to gameunder.net.

Tom: And it also gives us imaginary money from our imaginary advertisers as well.

Phil: Yes, and I use that imaginary money on imaginary transvestite prostitutes, which is surprisingly effective actually.

Phil: This week we put up reviews of Torn Curtain, which is actually a film, some sort of non-interactive video game.

Tom: Yeah, I think they're a pretty new concept.

Phil: Yeah, you can read our reviews over at gameunder.net.

Phil: So with that, I am Phil Fogg.

Tom: And I am Tom Towers, and I'm just going to end on a special note.

Tom: We actually got our first comment on the website, which was from some guy.

Tom: Now, can you perhaps decipher his name?

Tom: It appears to be Hebrew or something like that.

Tom: I believe you're fluent in Hebrew.

Phil: I am.

Phil: His name is Ilohim Salchali.

Tom: Yeah, well, he said, correction, Mr.

Tom: Towers, Jack Lantz, not Tim Robbins, Cheerio.

Tom: So thanks for that comment.

Tom: I would just like to point out that it looks like Tim Robbins.

Tom: That's why I called him Tim Robbins.

Tom: And that's it.

Tom: There was never, never any, any implication that it was actually Tim Robbins.

Tom: You just need to read it between the lines a little sometimes.

Tom: That is all.

Phil: Thank you everyone.

Phil: You've listened to Game Under Podcast at gameunder.net.

Phil: Have a great day.

Game Under Episode 3

Tom Towers and Phil Fogg break from their monthly podcasting schedule go over the week's news and anything else gaming related in their lives.​

Stream Above or Download Directly Here (right-click then save as).​​  You may also listen to our shows using Stitcher.

Also, please subscribe to our podcast using RSS by clicking here.​​ Or Subscribe with iTunes.

NEWS

3:29 Nintendo Skipping Keynote at E3 2013 (Nintendo too Embarassed)

11:20 EA Shuts Down EA Partners

22:51 XCOM Shooter is Alive and Has a New Name

27:55 HOTD iOS

31:05 Durango Details Coming May 21 (Microsoft to Anger Millions)

35:35 Shinji Mikami's New Game

​43:33 Dragon's Crown Controversy

51:59 Thomas Was Alone Might Come to 360

YakuzaKillzONE MINUTE

54:50 Tom Goes There (points out how Killzone is better than Call of Duty)

1:21:21 The Tiny Yakuza Section of Tom's 28 minute Killzone Feature

Final Thoughts (Games we finished this week)

​1:23:40 Spec Ops: The Line (Multiplayer Impressions)

1:32:33 Serious Sam 3 (Phil Thanks Tom for Beating the Game for Him)

1:33:45 Bully (Phil Fog's Final Thoughts)

They are only pictures people.

Transcripts
Tom: Nintendo president Satoru Iwata recently announced that Nintendo would not be holding an Ekeynote speech.

Tom: Although they will still be holding precedents in which they will showcase their vast bastion of DS games and Rayman legends.

Tom: Satoru Iwata said they had simply had enough.

Tom: The key to the coin was when Miyamoto forced me to wear a silly Luigi hat while he played around with a Hoover in the background.

Tom: Remember the music presentation?

Tom: People like to blame me for the embarrassing moments that we as a company have been forced to endure at Ebut the truth of the matter is that Miyamoto is to blame.

Tom: As the head of the company, I was happy to take the criticism, but being forced to wear the hat really was too much, much less respondently.

Tom: It is still unclear if Iwata will be even attending Ebut given the hits that he's taken over the years to his self-confidence, it's likely he'll sit this one out, just as Kami has yet to return to Eand it appears that even Reggie may not be in attendance, both him and Kami being long-suffering victims of a nasty cyberbullying campaign carried out by disgruntled gamers.

Tom: Clearly the whole of Nintendo is suffering with major self-confidence issues, even being forced into private Nintendo Direct announcements.

Tom: But hopefully a successful Efloor show presentation will allow them to gain back some of the self-confidence they are missing and once again reassert themselves as a major force in the home console industry.

Tom: Welcome to episode I believe it is.

Tom: Yes?

Phil: That is correct.

Tom: Of the Game under.net podcast.

Tom: Today we will be discussing the likes of Nintendo's announcement, if you can tell from the introduction that they will not be attending Eto EA partners closing down.

Phil: You know, that breaking news that you've just given, I didn't read that anywhere this week.

Phil: So Iwata isn't doing this because he's sick of the embarrassment.

Tom: Yeah, well you see, at Lava Lemming, we managed to get a very exclusive interview with him and he told us that.

Tom: It's in parking marks so you know it's true.

Phil: Very exclusive.

Phil: I'm shocked.

Phil: I mean, this is pretty big.

Phil: I mean, we are now on Twitter.

Phil: You can follow me at Game Under Phil and I've been following like a thousand different gaming journalists this week but none of them had this story so this has to be pretty light breaking.

Tom: I mean, the only thing I think of is, you know, Nintendo has a pretty bad PR track record with most outlets, right?

Tom: So maybe they don't want to publish something this negative just in case it makes the situation even worse.

Phil: So they leak it out through a small operation like us and so, you know, they'll see how this goes and if it goes well, then they'll go with it.

Phil: If they deny it, or if it doesn't go well, then they can deny it.

Tom: Yeah, I mean, it's just laser-lamming and Game Under, so...

Phil: So for our regular listeners, we're still holding to the premise that we're going to be doing this podcast once a month, right?

Phil: Even though this is our third week in a row where we're going to show?

Tom: Correct.

Tom: Well, next week we're almost definitely not doing one as we'll be recording a feature for the uber-monthly version of the show.

Phil: Yes, but we don't want to spoil that for anyone.

Tom: We won't be saying what the subject is.

Tom: I mean, it's just pretty mind-blowing that we have to record a feature on a separate day to the whole podcast.

Phil: I know, I know, but we won't tell anyone yet.

Phil: We promise we're only doing a podcast once a month and then we're going to do these other podcasts when big news break.

Phil: And obviously, there was a couple of big news stories this week, the first of which we alluded to in our intro, which is that Nintendo is saying no more Ekeynote speech.

Phil: In fact, they may or may not be making any presentation at Eother than at their booth and then in offices, you know, closed door meetings behind the scenes.

Phil: What was your first reaction upon hearing this, Tom?

Tom: Well, my first reaction was it just destroyed my theory that we discussed in the previous podcast, right, where they might have been holding back a more major announcement from Ebut at the same time, they wouldn't necessarily need to do that in a keynote speech, right?

Tom: They could simply do that as part of a private presentation or whatnot, and it would be coming out in some way or another privacy be damned.

Tom: So I'm not sure it necessarily affects them all that greatly, given that they have been using their Nintendo Directs much more, right?

Tom: I mean, and actually some pretty big things there.

Phil: Well, even if you look at last year's Ethey had the pre-Ewhich launched the hardware.

Phil: And then you'll remember everyone's response to that was, oh my god, you know, because they said, we want our keynote to be all about the games.

Phil: So everyone was like, oh my god, they've got so many games to announce that they're having the hardware one as a Nintendo Direct.

Phil: Then they had their middle conference, which was doing great until they got to Nintendo land.

Phil: And they said, we're not even going to mention the DS, except when they talked about the DS for minutes.

Phil: We're going to have a separate DS conference the next day.

Phil: And so you can see Nintendo going toward this.

Phil: And I think this is something that Apple started.

Phil: Apple used to have their keynote every year at the Macworld conference.

Phil: Macworld is a magazine, and it was the biggest Apple-focused show.

Phil: And Apple always did a keynote, but then they broke away from that and basically said, well, why should we be sharing a stage here?

Phil: We'll just have our own events that we can choreograph, pay for ourselves.

Tom: I think what you actually mean is we're going to make our own churches in which we will hold eulogies for ourselves.

Phil: Well, not eulogies in Apple's face, certainly.

Tom: Sermons.

Phil: Sermons, right.

Phil: This is quite different.

Phil: And then Microsoft has followed this.

Phil: Microsoft has pulled out from CES this last year, or this year rather.

Phil: Microsoft is famous for doing the keynote there, and they've moved to doing these separate shows.

Phil: So, I mean, best case scenario, this is just a PR company taking over Nintendo's message and saying you can control your message better through these small, segmented, targeted events as opposed to having one big event.

Phil: And particularly at this Ewhere they're going to have an event with a year old piece of hardware and their competition is going to go up there, each of them, with their own hardware announcements.

Phil: So, I mean, Nintendo couldn't really win this Eand they probably think they can get their message out just as effectively to the mainstream by having these direct media encounters behind the scenes.

Tom: And they're probably about running that.

Tom: The only thing is the timing of the announcement after that Nintendo Direct where they showed Pikmin and apart from that basically nothing for the Wii U, right, could not have been worse.

Tom: I mean, announcing it now makes it seem like they're doing this because they don't have anything big coming up at Eright, whether they do or not.

Tom: That's the impression that a lot of people are going to take away from this.

Phil: Yeah, well, I gave the best case scenario, which is this is just PR BS.

Phil: The worst case scenario is that they have no third party support.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And if they were going to get up there and do a keynote and basically be like, well, here are our Nintendo published games and they don't have EA coming up there, they don't have Activision coming up there, it would just make it look even worse.

Phil: So, you know, bottom line, I think this kills them in the hardcore.

Phil: I mean, amongst the hardcore gamer, you basically got people who have already bought into the Wii U, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So they're emotionally invested in it and whatever they do, whatever Nintendo does is fine, right?

Phil: And then you've got the people who haven't yet bought a Wii U, right?

Phil: So I think we put us in that category, where we're not haters, but we're on the fence.

Phil: You know, we're waiting to see.

Phil: And I think that category of buyer, that category of hardcore gamer, is only going to be dissuaded by the lack of a keynote.

Phil: I mean, I don't know.

Phil: Nintendo has done this, of course, before, where they've exited the Tokyo Game Show and then done their own events, and then Nintendo World and then eventually finished, you know, exited those as well.

Phil: But I mean, all in all, this may be the smart move, but I don't...

Phil: As you said, coming on the back of that Nintendo Direct, which was so disappointing, this doesn't look good.

Tom: Yeah, the timing just makes it seem really bad.

Tom: I don't think it affects them too greatly now.

Tom: There's just the initial reaction of, well, does this mean they've got nothing at Eright?

Tom: If they, in fact, do have good third-party support and enough of their own games for the Wii U at Egiven a good presentation either in private or in public, just in small presentations, I think then most people will see it as, well, they're just going to use Nintendo Direct for more major announcements, right?

Tom: And when they feel like announcing something, so they don't have to wait for something like E

Tom: So I don't think we can necessarily say yes, if it's a good idea, if it is a good idea, or if it is them simply basically just admitting they've got nothing until Ehas come around.

Phil: Well, we should probably move on to our next story, but I'd say the last part of this is that you also have to factor in that this is a Japanese company looking at a Western event.

Phil: And they also ousted their North American CEO and basically gave Iwata double duty.

Phil: So Iwata will now be in charge of Nintendo of America as well.

Phil: So you have to think that on some part, this is some sort of, you know, the Japanese coming in and saying, you guys don't know what you're doing.

Phil: We don't need to do this keynote.

Phil: It's a net negative for us.

Phil: We're always made fun of.

Phil: Your CEO sucks.

Phil: We're going to put Iwata in control.

Phil: And you also have to wonder what the impact is on the American staff.

Phil: I mean, Reggie's never really been in control.

Phil: He's just been basically the head of marketing for Nintendo of America.

Phil: But then to have Iwata be made your CEO, when obviously he's not going to be a full-time CEO, I mean, there's going to be an empty office up there in Redmond in Washington with the CEO's name on it.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: You see what I'm saying?

Tom: You'll be starting in there.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: I mean, it's like a school with a principal that is a principal of another school full-time and he comes to see you once a month for three days.

Phil: This doesn't portend well at all in terms of management or morale for Nintendo.

Phil: But what does that care?

Phil: All we care about are the games.

Phil: So if you've got nothing more to say about that, we'll probably move on to the next biggest story.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, of course, the next biggest story this week was EA.

Phil: They closed some studios earlier this month, and now they've closed even more studios, possibly reducing their staff of by %, an additional %.

Phil: And studios close all the time, I mean, particularly when big games wrap up or games, you know, games don't sell particularly well, they'll wrap up a studio.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But I think what was notable about this closure was that they shut down their EA Partners division.

Tom: And would you like to explain this to the listeners, as there's quite a bit of confusion as to what the EA Partners actually are.

Phil: Well, EA Partners was actually a program that was started by basically a venture capitalist type guy.

Phil: And he was basically a talent scout.

Phil: He would go out and find these mid-level companies that couldn't produce or develop or publish or QA or distribute their own games.

Phil: So EA is a publisher developer.

Phil: So they develop some of their own games, like SimCity, for example, or Madden.

Phil: But they're also a publisher.

Phil: So in addition, it's like being an author that has their own publishing house.

Phil: And when you're a publisher, well, what does that mean?

Phil: It means you pay for marketing.

Phil: It means you get distribution deals in place with big box stores like Target and Walmart and Best Buy and things like that.

Phil: But also what EA partners did was provide...

Phil: They have this massive quality assurance or QA testing team that's in place.

Phil: So basically, if me and you made a game, much like us making this podcast, we've got good ideas, we're earnest, we're into it, we're on it.

Phil: It would be kind of like a radio station producer coming in and saying, you've got some rough edges, but you've got a good show here.

Phil: We're going to put you on of our stations around Australia.

Phil: And before you do that, we want some focus groups to listen to your show.

Phil: We're going to give you some production notes.

Phil: We're going to have an intro song written for you and all the rest of it.

Phil: Well, that's what EA partners do.

Tom: And don't forget, we'll have to get rid of Phil Fogg.

Phil: That's never going to happen.

Phil: Now, I know the only reason why I'm on this show is because I'm the guy that knows how to publish the podcast to win, but you're not getting rid of me.

Phil: So what EA did, like for Epic, for example, right?

Phil: So you think, well, Epic's fucking huge.

Phil: Why would they need a publisher?

Phil: Well, because they're only a developer, right?

Phil: So they had, their publishing deal for Gears came through Microsoft.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Because Microsoft had the distribution.

Phil: So when they came to make a game like Bullet Storm, they needed EA to package, publish, market and distribute it.

Tom: Of course.

Phil: So other notable games that were distributed in this way were Brutal Legend by Double Fine, The Crisis series by Crytek.

Phil: I mean, can you just imagine being Crytek coming over to North America with this kick-ass game, but no way to distribute it?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So Death's Bank, Kingdoms of Malmoral Reckoning, The Left Dead, Rock Band, Shadows of the Dam, Syndicate, Shank.

Phil: You know, so in addition to that, they also seeded studios.

Phil: So when the guys from Infinity Ward left Activision, I think they gave them about $million so they could set up offices and buy equipment and all the rest of it.

Phil: Just on the basis of them having the rights to publish future Respawn games.

Phil: So big deal or not big deal?

Phil: Obviously, I've made it out to be a big deal.

Phil: What do you think?

Tom: Well, if it is that they're basically closing down most of their publishing, then it is an incredibly huge deal.

Tom: The thing is, it could also simply be restructuring and rebranding, right?

Tom: Or do we know there's more to it than that?

Phil: I think that they're doing this...

Phil: You know, they recently fired their CEO.

Phil: They haven't yet assigned a new CEO.

Phil: I think they're doing the dirty work before they put Peter Moore in charge.

Phil: I think this is them basically scaling way the hell back.

Phil: They're not going to be taking any risks.

Phil: They're going to be focusing on their core properties, like Madden, Sims, you know, and that sort of thing.

Phil: And I see this as a major retraction, but I also see it as a sign of the times.

Phil: I mean, a lot of this kind of work now is being done by Steam Greenlight, right?

Phil: Particularly if you look at smaller games, they publish like Shank or Fuse.

Phil: Even to a extent, you know, games like Brutal Legend or Bullet Storm perhaps could have been distributed through Steam.

Tom: If they could get the money to fund in the first place, though.

Phil: Yeah, that's right.

Phil: And that's the other thing that these guys did.

Phil: They did an old school music label style where they'd fund the money so these developers would have some money to spend on development.

Phil: You know, the only other option for these small companies like Grasshopper Manufacture is to sell out to, you know, one of these large publishers.

Tom: I mean, here's the thing.

Tom: You can probably remember which companies these were because I can't...

Tom: I think it was about last year, if you remember, on the VG Press Podcast.

Tom: We had a very long discussion about either, I think, was it THQ or Take-Two or someone that had put themselves up for sale, right?

Tom: And we were simply wondering who was actually going to go in to buy them, right?

Tom: Can you remember?

Phil: Probably THQ because Take-Two is like wildly profitable.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Tom: And now they're basically dead.

Tom: I mean, it appears that this sort of publishing is somewhat going out.

Tom: Which is a huge shame because most of the games you've mentioned there I think are too big for green light because they require too much of an initial investment, right?

Tom: So they basically need a publisher with a large amount of money to say, okay, we're going to trust you to make this.

Tom: And as long as we can do QA on it and have some degree of input just to make sure you're doing things properly right, we're going to fund the game and then publish it so that you can make it happen.

Tom: Without this sort of publishing, Brutal Legend isn't going to happen again.

Tom: Double Fine is going to be a small adventure game production company basically.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Or Shadows of the Dam, the Suda Mikami project from, I think it was just two years ago, Grasshopper Manufacturer.

Phil: That game would never have seen the light of day, but for EA partners.

Phil: I mean, unless you think this is irrelevant, you've also got Kingdoms of Emila Reckoning, which came out last year.

Phil: Portal you know, many people's game of the year for last year.

Phil: Well, the retail release of that, you might go, oh, Valve, they're all powerful, they have all the money.

Phil: Valve doesn't have the phone numbers to target.

Phil: They don't have the phone numbers to UPS or FedEx.

Phil: They don't know how to distribute games in the physical realm.

Phil: And so that's why I do think that perhaps, you know, the shrinking of EA partnerships may be a sign of the times.

Phil: You say that Valve can't support the distribution and funding of these larger scale games like Hellgate London.

Phil: Well, you're absolutely right.

Phil: I mean, they couldn't support the physical distribution of Portal or the Orange Box or the Left Dead series.

Phil: Yeah, this is a big deal.

Phil: I mean, the only other company that can step in at this point is someone like Bethesda, who's been spending their Elder Scrolls money by buying up these small studios.

Phil: But then you have small studios that don't want to be bought up.

Phil: They just want to stay independent and then, you know, keep distributing games.

Phil: And they're basically going to have to sign a deal with the devil and go with either Take Two or Activision.

Tom: You're forgetting one other publisher and that is Square Enix.

Tom: If anyone wants to join them.

Phil: Yeah, I don't think that's going to be happening.

Tom: I think the most shocking thing about this news is, assuming that it's not some sort of industry secret that isn't being published for some reason and this is simply restructuring, is the fact that this is not being reported as big news, right?

Tom: This is just like a throwaway news article on most outlets.

Tom: And I mean, why?

Tom: The only possible reason that I can think of is simply the stereotype that EA, as a publisher, just regurgitates Madden, etc.

Tom: right?

Phil: They're just these evil things.

Phil: No, I think you're absolutely right.

Phil: I mean, I went to several community gaming outlets and posted about this.

Phil: I went on my Twitter account, Game Under Phil, and tweeted about it, and no one cared.

Phil: I posted a thread specifically about this topic in one gaming community, and I got one response.

Phil: I got like views, one response.

Phil: And I do think that this is like this EA bias, where it's like, well, fuck EA, who cares?

Phil: It's the worst company in America, fuck them.

Phil: Well, yeah, you might say that, but did you like Shadows of the Dam?

Phil: Did you like Left Dead?

Phil: Did you happen to enjoy Rock Band?

Phil: How about that Hellgate London game?

Phil: Pretty cool, right?

Phil: Or Shank?

Tom: I don't think many people like Hellgate London, though, for the record here.

Phil: Bulletstorm!

Phil: Okay, I knew one lady who did like Hellgate London, so I didn't even know if Flagship's still around.

Phil: But anyway, yeah, I do think, to answer your question, I do think this is part of the EA antipathy, which is leading to this apathy, which I think is an anathema.

Phil: Well, I think it's an anathema.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Well, my only other explanation would be that the common gamer doesn't know what EA Partners is, so people might know that they publish games and were involved, you know, they had a great period where they were publishing stuff like Mirror's Dead and Dead Space, right, original games, and accept that, but if you say EA Partners to them, they're not going to think, well, that's their publishing, right?

Tom: So if they see EA Partners is closing down, they're not going to take that as EA is stopping publishing games, third party games, right?

Tom: I mean, Godmode enabled was, had the same reaction on the forum, right?

Tom: Yeah, and I must admit, I didn't know that EA Partners was the term for their publishing outlet, but I was well aware that they've been heavily involved in publishing all those games, and yeah.

Tom: Ignorance probably plays a large part as well.

Phil: Yeah, so what you're saying is that user game mode enabled on their forums is ignorant?

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Okay, excellent.

Tom: But not just him and me as well.

Phil: All right, enough said about that.

Phil: Let's go on to, that was the big news of the week, and that's what forced us to have this podcast this week, what we want to get out of the way.

Phil: What else is going on around there?

Tom: Xcom does in fact exist.

Tom: This started off, first of all, with some random video posted on YouTube in which some guy was speaking anonymously about some bullshit.

Tom: I didn't watch it.

Tom: So, after I commented on that, I saw like a screen cap of it.

Tom: And so, there was some dates and code in the tags of the video, but it was linked to Xcom, so everyone thought, okay, this is the Xcom shoot-up that is around, that is in fact still alive.

Tom: And K Marin has now in fact gone public on this and announced that, yes, it is still in existence.

Tom: It's called the Bureau Xcom Be Classified and it's going to be a third-person tactical squad-based shooter.

Tom: Now, originally, you could also play from a first-person perspective.

Tom: It's now third-person only, but still with a high focus on tactics.

Tom: And the plot involves William Carter, a lone wolf FBI agent.

Tom: Carter is dealing with extraterrestrial threats during the JFK years.

Tom: Carter may not like working with us, but the Bureau will require him to be a combat quarterback, quarterback as K Rex put it.

Tom: So, I, for one, am very pleased this exists, which I know is probably a controversial viewpoint, but I remember the original screenshots and they looked awesome to me.

Tom: I mean, it was an interesting setting for a shooter that you don't see every day, and personally I couldn't care less if it is shitting all over Xcom.

Tom: As its own universe, it looked pretty interesting to me.

Phil: Well, this is take two basically playing Roulette.

Phil: They're putting one on red and one on black.

Phil: Now, this game was announced before the popular Xcom RTS, which we game, which won, for example, Giant Bombs game at the year last year.

Phil: So they announced the FPS.

Phil: They saw how much people were responding to it.

Phil: And then, of course...

Tom: By which you mean how much everyone hated the idea.

Tom: Well, people...

Phil: Yeah, you're absolutely right, actually.

Phil: And then miraculously, Firaxis went ahead and released the reboot of this long dormant franchise as an effective RTS.

Phil: And then the FPS, all the websites were brought down for it, all the domains were brought back, and it looked like they basically said, OK, well, we weren't expecting the RTS to do so well, so let's just forget the shitty first-person shooter.

Phil: But now it looks like Take-Two is saying basically, well, I mean, let's see what we can do here.

Phil: Let's see if we can expand the Xcom IP into something beyond the RTS.

Phil: From all accounts, those that did play the early demos of the Xcom shooter liked it.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And I think turning it into a third-person tactical, you know, light tactical, squad-based shooter, like a Spec Ops The Line kind of game, is a smart way to take it.

Phil: Because what you're doing is you can't compete on the FPS front anymore, right?

Phil: That's done.

Phil: It's over your Call of Duty or your not.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: So I think taking it into the third person, which is fairly easy to do technically, is a very smart move by take two.

Phil: And if they can pick up some of the people who like the RTS and put out a decent third person shooter, and I am so cynical as to think that perhaps what they're thinking is they're going to produce the third person shooter in year A, the RTS in year B, the third person shooter sequel in year C.

Phil: You see what I'm saying?

Phil: And then turn this into a major franchise.

Phil: And you know what?

Phil: If they can do that, more power to it.

Tom: And it would be a new major franchise as well.

Tom: So you'd be getting your money's worth out of it for a while if they can keep up the quality of the Xcom RTS.

Tom: And the other thing that has greatly improved is their marketing.

Tom: And this isn't obvious to anyone even at the time that it was released.

Tom: They've come out now.

Tom: They didn't just announce it out of the blue.

Tom: They had this bullshit viral marketing, right?

Tom: So they're not just announcing it.

Tom: So everyone's going to say, well, we hated it.

Tom: What the fuck are you doing?

Tom: If they announce, if they do this viral stuff, people are then going to be intrigued by it.

Tom: So then actually announcing it is going to make it a less of a blow.

Tom: And when they've now announced it, they've immediately focused on pointing out, going to great extent to point out that it is still going to be very tactical.

Tom: When, from what I can remember on the first announcement, they didn't do that.

Tom: The main thing that they were going on about was that it would be very much in the Xcom universe and were kind of avoiding commenting on the tactics beyond simply saying that it would be tactical, right?

Phil: Well, right.

Phil: But I expect this to be like tactical.

Tom: I don't expect it to be like an RTS.

Tom: I'm just saying they're emphasizing the tactics that are going to be involved, whether it's going to be particularly tactical or not.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: It will be interesting to see how this measures up against that.

Phil: What was the Australian game, the one Destroy All Aliens?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: It was a third-person shooter set in the same time period with agents and the Bureau.

Phil: Not the Bureau.

Phil: That's a donkey.

Phil: The Bureau.

Phil: The Bureau.

Phil: So, I see lately you've been really...

Phil: House of the Dead is coming to iOS.

Tom: Yes, it is, indeed.

Tom: Not House of the Dead.

Tom: You've got to say Overkill, because House of the Dead and Overkill...

Tom: Overkill...

Tom: .

Tom: are two rather different aesthetics, shall we say.

Phil: Very much so.

Phil: I mean, the first three House of the Deads are very much a broken English, you know, suffer like G did kind of offense, and then Overkill is very much...

Phil: How would you describe it?

Tom: I would call it balls to the wall action, though you might want to add in some more vulgarity in that sense.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah, it's more pulpy, basically ripped from the movie posters of the s.

Phil: We have to say...

Tom: It depends on the posters.

Tom: I mean, they've got a range.

Tom: Some of them are from the s, some of them are from the s, some of them are from the s, some even could pass as s movie posters.

Tom: I think the key point simply is it's based entirely on exploitation films, even though some do go for the s film aesthetics such as the Edward Films, right?

Tom: It's not so much his horror films or rather his science fiction films such as Deep Space Nine.

Tom: It's his prostitutes going around killing people films or his pornographic films that they're going after.

Phil: What I like about this iOS version though is it's sure to maintain the games Witty and Swearfield Banter.

Phil: I mean, between the two main characters, that's going to be kept intact.

Phil: And they're going to be able to use the light gun style shooting, like you'll just be able to touch the screen.

Phil: They're not going to be using any sort of virtual joystick or anything like that, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Have you played many games, shooting games, we have to tap on the screen to shoot them?

Phil: No.

Tom: Because, to me, this interface is not going to work that well, because your fingers are going to be in the way of the action most of the time.

Phil: Well, you'll be lucky.

Phil: I'm glad you read this story, because you'll be happy to know that the light gun style shooting will in fact be not implemented as I suggested with touch screen shooting, but there will be a virtual joystick.

Phil: So there will be an on screen controller.

Tom: Just to completely contradict ourselves then.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Well, I was setting you up, and then, furthermore, I'm glad you read this story.

Tom: I, of course, had the logical reply which led them to do this in the first place.

Phil: I'm glad you read this story, because also the game's witty and swear-filled banter between the two characters has also been removed.

Tom: Well, see, here's the thing.

Tom: See, I assumed that you could read the story, given that you chose to post it here.

Tom: So, I've just got a question here.

Tom: What is the point of making House of the Dead overkill if the swearing has been removed?

Tom: And the lightning star shooting.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I don't want to air Derrity Laudentry online, but I was not the one that included this story that you did not read.

Tom: Oh, wait.

Tom: No, yes, I did.

Phil: On to other major news this week.

Phil: The Durango...

Tom: Move along quickly...

Phil: .

Phil: has been announced, or will be announced, on the st of May.

Phil: So, in less than a month, we'll find out about the new Xbox, according to Major Nelson.

Phil: And rumors are running right.

Phil: Do you want to talk about any of these rumors at all?

Tom: Which rumors?

Tom: The ones that won't have Always Online?

Phil: Well, what about the latest spin on that rumor?

Phil: That it will...

Phil: Always Online is going to be from publisher to publisher.

Phil: So, basically, you can decide whether or not you're going to do it.

Phil: Much like Microsoft's policy of region locking on the existing

Phil: Basically, they left it up to the publishers, which basically resulted in no region locking other than when Microsoft wanted to limit Japanese gamers from buying certain games.

Tom: If that is the case, I really don't see the point of including it.

Tom: There's only two publishers thus far that have done this elsewhere, and that would be EA and Blizzard with SimCity Diablo right?

Phil: Yeah, and Ubisoft.

Tom: Yeah, oh yeah.

Phil: On the PC, yeah.

Tom: So, I mean, I don't see EA wanting to implement this on that many console games.

Tom: I suppose they do often want you to get an EA account and Ubisoft, right?

Tom: A UbiPlay account or whatever it's called, right?

Tom: So maybe they're actually under pressure by EA and Ubisoft to actually include Always Online.

Phil: Yeah, I think this is a pay-on to the publishers and basically just a bullet point in their marketing is saying, hey, you think piracy is an issue, if you think piracy is an issue, we always let you turn this on.

Phil: And what this enables EA to do then is if piracy does become an issue with the next Xbox console, is say, okay, well, let's turn it on for Madden.

Phil: Let's turn it on for the game.

Phil: Let's turn it on for FIFA.

Phil: Let's turn it on for the games that are going to get pirated the most.

Phil: And keeping in mind, yeah, EA still does all the server-side stuff for their multiplayer.

Phil: I mean, they're still stuck in that stone age where they don't let Microsoft do their own server management.

Tom: Which is why we're not playing FIFA still.

Phil: Yeah, so I think that that's probably true.

Phil: That's probably how it's all going to shake down.

Phil: I mean, at this point, I don't know if these leaks that Microsoft's putting out are to the effect that when they have their actual show on the st of May, all they need to do is come out and say, and always online is not required at all times.

Phil: And then they win E

Phil: I mean, they've lowered expectations at this point that they basically just need to come out, show that they have something that capably works and can run games, and they win E

Tom: Well, that's the other thing, because there have been a few other rumors about the power of the console basically saying that it's going to be closer to the Wii U than the PSright?

Phil: Right.

Tom: So having the opportunity to say we're not going to be always online, dot, dot, dot, and we're going to be a Wii U, or the other way around, rather.

Tom: So we might be the power of the Wii U, but at least we don't have always online would probably be a pretty good strategy.

Phil: I don't even want to wade into the territory of technical specifications for these new systems.

Phil: Other than the Wii U, we know what that is.

Phil: Other than the PSwe know what that is.

Phil: But for the I don't want to quite throw them off the ledge just yet.

Tom: We don't know yet.

Phil: We don't know.

Phil: So we do know that people have been talking, like at GDC, developers were really hyping up the PlayStation and they were less effusive about Microsoft's new offering.

Phil: So we don't know yet.

Phil: And ultimately, it doesn't matter.

Phil: Basically, the only reason why it matters is what's going to be the lead platform for developers to develop on, right?

Phil: Because we know the PlayStation suffered this generation because it was not the lead platform.

Phil: See Oblivion as one of many examples.

Phil: But speaking of another Bethesda published game, Bethesda of course now owns the ass of Mikami, the creator of Resident Evil and

Phil: Or is it and ?

Tom: I think the main thing is that he made

Phil: Yeah, he made

Phil: He made God Hand.

Phil: What has he done since then?

Tom: Was it Inafune with Shadows of the Damned and Suda or was that Mikami?

Tom: I can't remember.

Phil: Oh, no, no, it wasn't Inafune.

Phil: Mikami did Shadows of the Damned as well.

Phil: So anyway, he announced his latest game.

Tom: The Evil Within?

Phil: The Evil Within.

Phil: What can you tell us about this?

Tom: Well, the first thing I'm going to tell you is that the trailer for it is terrible.

Tom: It's this awful live action trailer where basically someone is very painstakingly winding together barbed wire.

Tom: Now, as interesting as that might sound, you'd think that they would have some sort of interesting montage going on in the background, right?

Tom: Well, they attempt to by flashing you with random horror characters in the light, right?

Tom: But it's just so incredibly generic.

Tom: It looks like at best some sort of student film project where they're demonstrating special effects or rather makeup and prosthetics and the ability to put together a demonstration of something.

Tom: It doesn't feel like what you would put together as a demonstration.

Tom: It's someone putting together a demonstration of a demonstration, so to speak.

Tom: And I don't know.

Tom: Maybe it was simply because I was expecting it to be a proper trailer, but I thought it was just absolutely horrible.

Tom: It was so generic.

Tom: It had nothing of the feel of a Mikami game.

Tom: If you look at the screenshots that have come out, it was basically nothing like it.

Tom: It was just an absolutely horrible, horrible trailer.

Tom: But the actual game, the screenshots look basically like Resident Evil with a detective instead of a policeman getting involved in the action, right?

Tom: And apart from that, it goes through the bullet list of details.

Phil: Well, before you do that, though, I can't see this going anywhere well.

Phil: Mikami was given his own studio by Bethesda, right?

Phil: So, he's a Japanese guy working in Japan, far from Maryland where Bethesda is based.

Phil: And they're basically giving you money to just come up with games, right?

Phil: So, Japan is as far from Maryland as, say, we are, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: From Maryland.

Phil: And so, if they came to us and said, you know, Tom, Phil, we want you guys to make us a game.

Phil: We want to check in with you from time to time.

Phil: Here's $million, start up a studio.

Phil: Can you imagine the level of chaos and irresponsibility that would be going on?

Tom: So, you don't have faith in Mikami to pull this off.

Phil: Add to that, they speak a different language, right?

Phil: So, like, when we bullshit the guys in Maryland, they're going to kind of know.

Tom: But wait a minute.

Tom: So, are we spending the $million on putting together a studio in Maryland or in Australia?

Phil: Australia.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So, we're just getting the money from Maryland.

Phil: Right.

Phil: We're getting the money.

Phil: We have to Skype in and email them every week and tell them what's going on.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: See, that doesn't sound too ridiculous to me.

Tom: If he is a good leader of a group and got to put together a group and he's given carte blanche, because the issue would come in through the distance being if Bethesda wanted to have a lot of control of how the studio is put together, right?

Tom: Because if he is in the place that the studio is being put together and has control over it, I don't see that as necessarily being a huge issue.

Tom: You would have a lot more experience in doing this sort of thing, so you could perhaps tell me why it would be.

Phil: It's not going to work because, I mean, if you look at a game like Shadows of the Damned where Mikami was so hands-off, right?

Phil: Basically, there's no responsibility.

Phil: You've got cultural differences, you've got language differences.

Phil: I see him phoning this in.

Phil: I see him letting young underlings with less talent than he.

Phil: Of course, most people on this planet have less talent than he.

Phil: You know, take the reins.

Phil: Having played Shadows of the Damned, it just felt phoned in from every perspective with Suda doing the heavy lifting.

Phil: Basically, him coming in as the flamboyant overlord from time to time, saying, oh, move this to the left, move that to the right.

Phil: He says stuff like, oh, there aren't any horror games.

Phil: No one's making survival horror games anymore.

Phil: There's plenty of horror games that are coming out on Steam and PSN.

Phil: I think Mikami's out of touch.

Phil: I don't think he has the technical ability anymore.

Phil: I think he's kind of like Kojima, where the best he can be is a creative director.

Phil: I think the distance between those who are giving him the money and himself is so distant.

Phil: They're going to be giving him so much leverage because he's a creative, quote, genius.

Phil: I do think he's a creative genius, but it's kind of like giving Andy Warhol $million and telling him, I want you to paint the best pictures you can paint.

Phil: What's Andy Warhol going to do with that $million?

Tom: Spend it on making an --hour film with someone sleeping, by which I mean on drugs while he films himself sleeping.

Tom: But so your issue then is rather than with the idea, rather than the idea of what Bethesda is doing, is the fact that they're doing it with Mikami, right?

Tom: Just to clarify.

Phil: I think that anytime you're giving money to someone in another country who speaks a different language and they have the upper hand because they're the creative genius and you're just the bag man, you're just the guy handing them the money, it's a big mistake.

Tom: But what if his creative genius is also a genius of groups of people, of putting together and controlling groups of people?

Phil: Well, he hasn't shown evidence of that.

Tom: This is what I'm saying.

Tom: In theory, could this not work if it's not with Mikami, let's say?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: If it were, say, Cliff Pleszynski.

Phil: Someone who has shown an ability to put together a talented group of people who can listen to a creative input and then turn out a commercial and, to some extent, creative property, yes.

Phil: But if you look at Mikami's track history, you just have to look at his Shadow to the Dam with EA partners, where he basically phoned it in and took the money.

Phil: That's not a good sign.

Phil: And you've got to take the most recent evidence as being indicative of where he's heading.

Tom: Yeah, well, I don't think we really need to go through the bullet points.

Tom: Let's end this story on though.

Tom: I think what we've basically gathered from that is that Mikami should give Cliff Blisinski $million to make Beaver Within.

Phil: Yes, and yeah, I agree.

Phil: But onto two more very important bullet points.

Tom: Now, the next one is Dragon's Crown.

Tom: And if you remember, some Kotaku writer, I'm just going to open the link so I can actually get which one it was.

Tom: It kind of just helps us apart.

Phil: Jason Shryer.

Tom: Yep, Jason Shryer.

Tom: Basically posted a long, impassioned or rather outraged rant about the size of the sorceress' breast in Dragon's Crown, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Now, Dragon's Crown is a game that is made by the same people who brought you Eternal Poison, Grim Grimoire and Muramasa, for example.

Tom: And Odin Sphere.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Oh, Odin Sphere, yeah.

Phil: This is the Vanillaware folks.

Phil: And I'm looking at my copies of these games and she seems to be on the front cover of Grim Grimoire, except they're doing a panty shot or a pantaloon shot.

Phil: There's not a lot to be seen there.

Phil: But basically, this is a character that has a large ample breast, right?

Phil: And she's not wearing a lot of clothes.

Phil: And Jason Schreier basically said that the art direction of this game must have been done by a -year-old.

Phil: Right?

Phil: And then do you know what the response was to that?

Tom: The response was, the artist involved then, was this on Twitter?

Tom: Presumably on Twitter.

Tom: Sent him the picture that he'd done for him.

Tom: Of basically how he assumed Jason Schreier would like the outside to be, which was some presumably fully naked though, one could only tell from the pictures that they were at least semi-naked, muscular men with just incredibly awesome beards.

Tom: Right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Right.

Phil: They weren't exactly chow and inky guys.

Phil: I mean, I didn't actually pick up on it the first time I saw it.

Tom: They were quite muscly.

Tom: They had the muscles of chow and inky.

Tom: The best way to describe it would be chow and inky are bodybuilders, right?

Tom: So they're muscly, but they don't actually have any strength.

Tom: Now, these people with the beards are powerlifters, so they're muscly, but they've also got a good amount of fat and a good amount of weight to them, so they actually have some strength to go with their muscles.

Phil: Well, I'm glad you researched this.

Phil: So basically, he sent...

Tom: It's basic anatomy.

Phil: Jason Schreier said that these large breasted women must have been drawn by a juvenile, and so the Japanese guy who was the art director responded by saying, well, if you don't like large breasted women, maybe you won't enjoy this, and he sent back pictures of men himself.

Phil: How was this interpreted by the Twitter audience?

Phil: Right?

Tom: General agreement with Jason Schreier and that the picture was homophobic?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Which I don't buy at all, and not only homophobic, of course, but also that by saying that Jason Schreier is, quote, gay, or saying that if you don't like pictures of women, here is a picture of men.

Phil: So from there you go, okay, he's saying that you're gay, therefore you're saying he's gay, therefore that is bad, therefore you are bad, because I've done these three leaps of intellectual construct, that some poor asshole in Japan doesn't even know the underlying story behind, right?

Phil: Unbelievable.

Phil: Unbelievable.

Phil: You know, the fact that he sent him a picture of guys doesn't necessarily mean he's calling Jason Schreier gay, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I mean, it's a stretch to immediately assume that that is the meaning behind the picture, right?

Tom: And even if he was calling him gay, there's not necessarily any negative connotation with it either.

Tom: And I don't, yeah, on the one hand, I can easily see how this could be interpreted that way.

Tom: The thing is, even if you interpret it that way, there's no clear intent that this is the case.

Tom: So even if you were to think that, wouldn't you give the person involved the benefit of the doubt and assume it wasn't, given the tone chic tone of the picture and everything, right?

Tom: Even if he was saying he was gay, given that it's not, he's not sent me a picture of a bunch of guys having sex, right?

Tom: So it doesn't seem like there's any mouth in the picture beyond furiously spawning to someone calling you a sexist dickhead and a juvenile, right?

Phil: First of all, would I give him the benefit of the doubt?

Phil: Given that English is not his native language, absolutely.

Phil: Anyone who doesn't speak English as their native language hereby has permission to cop me abuse on Twitter, right?

Phil: And I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Phil: And also, he just sent him a picture.

Phil: Oh, you don't like pictures of women?

Phil: Well, here's some pictures of men, right?

Phil: He didn't send pictures of men, you know, I don't want to get too graphic here, but yeah, as you said, he didn't have pictures of men engaging in, you know, sex, right?

Phil: And saying, I bet you enjoy this more, right?

Tom: Well, it was clearly a homoerotic picture though, but once again...

Phil: Well, not for me it wasn't, maybe for you.

Tom: Yes, yes it was.

Phil: Is that an insult?

Tom: No.

Tom: That's a fact.

Tom: I'm not denied that I found it very erotic.

Tom: I'm happy to admit that.

Phil: I thought it looked like a pile of garden gnomes thrown on top of each other.

Phil: It was not, it didn't move my...

Tom: No, that's the thing.

Tom: I mean it doesn't necessarily need to.

Tom: It's homoerotic in the sense that if you have a picture of three topless women in that sort of position, right?

Tom: Stroking their chins.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That's going to be considered to be homoerotic, right?

Phil: Well, erotic.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, that's the whole point.

Tom: If we're going to be sexist about it, we're going to say it's erotic because the assumption is that men are going to find erotic, but women aren't going to find a bunch of men doing the same thing, homoerotic.

Phil: But also guys are allowed to take their shirt off at the beach and women aren't, generally speaking.

Tom: But you wouldn't normally have a bunch of men oiled up, stroking each other's beards, lying or standing close together on the beach, right?

Tom: Or maybe you would these days, I don't know.

Phil: I haven't been to the beach there recently.

Tom: Even if it is homoerotic, I still won't see how you can positively conceive that it is anything but a humorous tongue in sheep reply to someone seriously calling you sexist and juvenile, right?

Phil: Exactly, exactly.

Phil: And man, if you had listened to the GameSpot podcast this week, oh my god, I don't want to hear another podcast about gender identity, please.

Tom: And can I just say, her breasts are by far the least ridiculous thing in the game.

Tom: Have you seen the Knight character?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: He is bigger than a fucking space marine from StarCraft, right?

Tom: As a space marine, you accept that they were in somewhat pokey armor.

Tom: This guy's armor is plated to fit around his muscles, for god's sake.

Tom: He is by far more ridiculous, and on the Odin Sphere box, right?

Tom: Odin Sphere, most of the characters are much more chibi, right?

Tom: So they've got small breasts, they're more childlike.

Tom: But on the back, there's this enemy that is a humongous bodybuilder.

Tom: So if we're going to get a thing running through all this game, it's not big breasts as women, but men with humongous muscles.

Phil: And that's not determined to be overtly sexual or anything else.

Tom: But if you want to complain about something with this artist and vanilla wearing, you can complain about that, and don't complain about that, unless you just think it looks fucking stupid, which by the way it does.

Phil: And can we just, I mean, as a gaming press, we're talking about it because we're ridiculing it.

Phil: I don't want to hear it anymore.

Phil: I don't want to hear it.

Phil: I don't want to hear that Laura Croft massage and stuff, and then when the game comes out, it's like, oh, this game is so awesome.

Phil: Well, what happened to all the massage and stuff?

Phil: But it doesn't matter, it's so awesome.

Phil: We were wrong.

Phil: Before we move on to the Killzone one minute, we made a bit of a news this week.

Tom: Yes, we did indeed, or rather you did.

Tom: I have no credit for this.

Phil: If you go to gameunder.net and scroll down a little bit, you'll see that I was talking on Twitter to the creator of Thomas Was Alone.

Phil: Have you had a chance to play this game yet?

Tom: I've installed it and downloaded it and checked that the PScontroller would work with it.

Phil: Oh, yeah, it's fully compatible with the controller.

Phil: Thomas Was Alone is a puzzle platformer in the vein of The Lost Vikings.

Phil: And this came out this week for PlayStation and Vita.

Phil: It's cross-play enabled.

Phil: I had played the PC version, which was available versus Steam, and I first learned about this game through the Good Game TV show that airs down here in Australia.

Phil: And it is absolutely charming.

Phil: It's won Baptist for its voice acting and all the rest of it.

Phil: Basically, it's a platformer where these different squares, rectangles, triangles all have to navigate through this world, and they each have different skills.

Phil: And like in Lost Vikings, you have to switch between the three of them to get through a level.

Phil: So basically, I noticed that on the IGN UK podcast, he said that the version was not a possibility, and he confirmed that over Twitter.

Phil: He basically said, yeah, I mean, we're up for that.

Phil: Nothing's planned, but nothing's impossible.

Tom: So it wasn't an accidental double negative.

Phil: No, exactly.

Phil: Amazing.

Phil: And this is amazing actually, because what it means is, even though he's cooperating with Sony now, it means that Sony paid for it, right?

Phil: Because if they had paid for an exclusivity, you know how it is, he wouldn't even mention it, because he doesn't want owners to go, oh, well, I guess I won't be buying a Vita to play this game, right?

Phil: So that was kind of cool, and you can see that exchange up at gameunder.net.

Tom: I want to congratulate you on the excellent journalistic work.

Phil: Ah, yes, the best journalism that can be done in under characters.

Tom: Yeah, well, it qualifies as better journalism than % of games journalism.

Tom: So we've been around a few weeks, and we're already at the forefront of games journalism, blazing trails.

Phil: I've only been on Twitter for like four days, and I only have seven followers, so I do need some followers, so if you're listening out there, please do have sympathy on me and follow me at Game Under Phil.

Phil: So why don't you lead off our Yakuza.

Phil: You have a way of pronouncing this.

Phil: Yakuza kills one minute.

Tom: And this is probably going to last for longer than a minute, as this is basically our mini feature for the podcast, and it's inspired by me finishing the original Killzone.

Tom: As far as I can tell from your comments on it, you're not a fan.

Phil: Of the original Killzone?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I wanted to be a fan.

Phil: I've tried it.

Phil: I've started it at least twice, perhaps three times.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And I just get up to a certain level where I can't play the game anymore.

Phil: I think it's visually beautiful to this day.

Phil: I did try it anew as recently as a year ago.

Phil: So, yeah, I'm not a hater, but I couldn't finish it.

Tom: Before we get into my impression, I've got to ask you, did you ever get up to Rico?

Phil: I don't know, honestly.

Tom: You remember Rico from the second one, right?

Phil: Well, he wasn't very helpful, for sure.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And he just went around being a dick, right?

Tom: Spoiler alert, killed Rannik at the end when he didn't need to.

Tom: And the whole time he was just going around swearing at people, right?

Tom: And just generally being an asshole.

Phil: He wasn't a professional soldier.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And would you say he was a likeable character?

Phil: No.

Tom: No.

Phil: I would say that I wanted to have him...

Phil: I wanted to speed his early demise as soon as possible.

Tom: Whenever he died, I celebrated.

Tom: The best moment was the Rannik boss battle or just the part leading into it, right?

Tom: Where you're on the balcony and you're killing people with rockets, yeah?

Phil: Yes, yep, yep.

Tom: At one stage, he ran between two of them or something, and he got caught into fire and burnt very, very painful to death and was screaming the whole time extreme agony.

Tom: And it was just awesome the whole time.

Tom: But in Killzone, okay, the whole game being from the previous generation is much more cartoony, right?

Tom: So his brand of racism and general arsehole-ness is just incredibly entertaining and he's like this comical person that follows you around being a lovable dick.

Tom: He's sort of endearing.

Tom: And I mean, you are accompanied by a Helgaard character, right?

Tom: So Rico, who is completely racist against Helgaard, has a great dynamic where he's just constantly complaining about this guy, constantly threatening to kill him.

Tom: I think the best line he had was, and I previously had this saved in my notes before he deleted it, so I have to paraphrase this, was, you're goddamn lucky you got some bite of shit in your head, or I fucking shove it at you.

Tom: And then someone interrupted him.

Tom: So he's going along, spouting this sort of thing the whole time, but because they've got another character there as a foil for him, and the three of them are kind of defusing his arsehole-ness, it works much better than in so he's actually entertaining.

Tom: So I'd just like to say, I can now see why they actually included Rico in and

Tom: But on to more important matters.

Tom: Now, the last couple of things I'm going to say about Killzone is that it does a couple of things much better than in

Tom: It has a lot more variety.

Tom: So you go through a range of different environments, and just when they start to become too samey, it moves you on to a new one.

Tom: And a really cool thing it does is it's got these four different playable characters, right?

Tom: And not only do they all have unique skills and weapons, they also have unique pathways through the levels to varying degrees.

Tom: So I thought that was a very interesting thing they did there, which made it, which helped us stand out from a lot of first person shooters.

Phil: Now, are you saying that there was difference in terms of the environments?

Phil: Did they have like a lava world, a jungle world, an ice world?

Phil: How were the levels different?

Tom: Well, it starts off in the urban factory environment, right?

Phil: Right, okay.

Tom: Then it moves in, you go from the urban factory environment into somewhat the countryside and beaches, and it's got some of the two, so there's a nice contrast.

Tom: Then from there you move into swamps, full on swamps, like you're going through water.

Tom: From the swamps you move into a jungle, moving through thick green plants and plant-like.

Tom: Then from there I think you get into ice areas, and then finally the climax is in a spaceship.

Phil: Oh, so no lava land.

Tom: No lava land, but it did have the ice world.

Phil: Well, Halo had most of those except for the jungle.

Phil: It had more of a Nordic forest, but it has all the rest of those.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Now, I've got to say, given the limitations of the PlayStation 's hardware, I mean retrospectively speaking, of course, I mean were those pretty linear, like down a tube kind of?

Tom: The whole thing is completely a corridor shooter.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, there are some open set pieces, but they generally, because of the regenerating health style of gameplay, basically consists of you hiding behind a rock or something and shooting people, then hiding behind a rock and shooting people.

Tom: So it still sort of feels like you're moving through a corridor where you're basically moving from rock to rock, right?

Tom: But I mean, that's the style of first person shooters, most first person shooters at the time.

Phil: It's not a particularly original one.

Tom: No, no, no, no.

Phil: No, no, I'm just saying, you know, for the time, if we were to go back to play it now, how would we find it kind of thing?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And of course, I had played and loved the second one.

Phil: But I forget, is there a canon explanation for the regenerating health?

Tom: No.

Tom: There's no explanation whatsoever.

Tom: And here's the thing, I think don't play this as your first Killzone.

Tom: I think it is an incredibly fascinating, if you find the whole production of the Killzone series and the world of Killzone interesting, which I do, and I'll go into that in a section as, which is the main focus of the feature, play this after you play Killzone and okay?

Tom: Because it's fascinating going back to it.

Tom: It's got a lot of motifs from both and like it's got weapons that you don't have in that you have in and vice versa.

Tom: It's got environments from both of them.

Tom: It's kind of like a mixture of Killzone and with both of them not done to the same degree of polish and intensity, right?

Tom: And it lays the groundwork for the setting and everything.

Tom: Not that well, but when you go back and play it, it's interesting.

Tom: And the most interesting thing is, you know, I'm sure you noticed in the press, there's a running joke that the HellGast are, sorry, the ISA are the actual antagonist and evil characters in the game, right?

Tom: Because they're the invading force, et cetera, et cetera.

Tom: But it's a running joke because everyone assumes this is completely accidental because it's basically on the surface a brain-dead shooter, right?

Phil: Right, the humor is embedded in the fact that those who are creating it are not doing this knowingly.

Tom: Yeah, but it's completely unintentional.

Phil: Which in itself is kind of racist, because they're basically assuming that Guerrilla Games are these dumb Eastern Europeans who don't know what they're doing, right?

Tom: They're Dutch, by the way, for anyone out there wondering.

Phil: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Tom: Not quite Eastern Europe, not quite.

Tom: But yeah, but the thing is, okay, now so the whole time I've been thinking, okay, if this was an American game, that's going to be the case, because the only way that you're going to do that, because the ISA is America, and its allies, right?

Phil: Right, right, right.

Tom: So the only way you're going to get that is if it's some bizarre spec ops thing, right?

Tom: Where someone said, do whatever the fuck you want.

Tom: That's not what Killzone is.

Tom: Killzone is Sony's gone to them and said, make us a big budget first person shooter that is marketable and going to sell, okay?

Tom: But the Dutch love subversion, so they've taken this and said, okay, we're going to do this.

Tom: Well, at the same time, knowing full well that Americans are fucking idiots.

Tom: So if we...

Phil: Japanese man, I mean the Japanese are the ones paying them.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: The Japanese people are paying us and Americans are fucking idiots.

Tom: So it's still going to be marketable in America because they're just going to assume that us saying America are these imperial dickheads is because we're ignorant retards, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Right.

Tom: And the best part is, the most hilarious thing is, they literally say it in the game.

Tom: You come up against General Adams, who is an ISA guy, but he's a traitor, so he's been helping the HellGuard because he says, he's aware that the ISA are imperialistic dickheads going in, fucking everything up for the HellGuard, and it was their fault that they even became the HellGuard in the first place, right?

Tom: So there's literally a monologue at the end where General Adams says this whole fucking thing that he threw out the whole Killzone series.

Tom: So it wouldn't have had anywhere near the same impact if you hadn't played and before this and thought, been wondering, you know, this is surely an intentional and awesome thing, right?

Tom: That makes this series much more interesting than it would be.

Tom: So that is just awesome when you kind of, vindication.

Phil: Okay, so for all you out there who aren't listening because this is about Killzone, let me break it down for you.

Phil: This developer in the Netherlands is taking money from Japan.

Phil: The Japanese don't care what they're doing.

Phil: And so the Japanese, the Netherlanders are basically saying, okay, fine, we're going to make this subversive game as commentary about the military industrial complex, right?

Phil: I think it's fitting.

Phil: I think it's right.

Phil: I mean, because like you said, the Dutch are so subversive.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And they do their subversion in such an over the top way.

Tom: So, for example, Robocop and Total Recall, right?

Tom: Even though they're American films, they're directed by Paul Verhoeven.

Tom: And they very much have got a huge Dutch influence in them.

Phil: It's a perfect match.

Phil: Paul Verhoeven in Robocop for example, is an absolute exact match for what you're saying.

Phil: Because he was a guy taking this Hollywood money and producing this, you know, really...

Phil: It's actually the same message when you think about it.

Phil: He was satirizing popular American culture, but he was also having a go at the industrial military complex, right?

Phil: Which is basically Boeing and McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed Martin and all these other companies, you know, making these military devices.

Phil: So, yeah, I think you're actually on to something there.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So this is basically Spec Ops Mkbut before there was Spec Ops.

Tom: And obviously not with the same degree of sassily and with different...

Tom: commenting on different things, but...

Phil: So does that fill out your kills one...

Tom: No, I'm not in fact...

Phil: Okay, well, let's...

Phil: I'm gonna lean back in my easy chair and let me know when you're done and I'll chime in with the Yakuza part of this one minute Yakuza Kills Line segment.

Tom: Well, this is basically one minute for us when we're talking about these two games.

Phil: It's true.

Tom: Okay, so basically the only other two things is, first of all, back to your point about it being a very beautiful game.

Tom: Now, one of the things that it was hugely praised for at the time was how far ahead of other games it was visually.

Tom: And in many areas it is, right?

Tom: So, for example, as I was saying in my initial impressions of it, that the character models are very much like first generation, very poor quality and PScharacter models, right?

Phil: They're very chunky.

Tom: Yeah, and so people blame the ambition of trying to do this on the unbelievable technical flaws in the game, the multitudes of glitches and the absolutely hideous draw distances and so many visual glitches and the terrible texture loading, right?

Tom: They blame that on the ambition, right?

Phil: Well, I got to call you on that.

Phil: I mean, that's what people say, but I don't remember it being particularly, I don't remember it being particularly glitchy at all.

Tom: It is, absolutely.

Tom: Not major things.

Tom: There's not major glitches.

Tom: There's minor things like, for example, the ladder glitch, there's grenade glitches, there's also clipping detection glitches.

Tom: The clipping detection things are minor, but there are an incredible amount of visual glitches.

Tom: There's so many texture loading problems, huge amounts of stuff like that.

Tom: It's not all the time, but you run into it very, very often.

Tom: And if you're just playing the beginning, and this is the other thing, okay, it is so much worse in certain areas.

Tom: Some areas look great, others look like utter crap.

Tom: They look like, they're absolutely terrible in every single way.

Tom: So if you didn't get too far, you may not have actually run in to too many of the visual problems because there are some areas that look absolutely worse than the others.

Tom: But where I was going with this was that rather than a lot of this being because of it being a problem with their ambition, right?

Tom: So they put all their effort into doing something that the PSwasn't capable of.

Tom: Okay, it's true, they do a couple of things that you don't see elsewhere much on the PSbut as a whole, I didn't think it was technically that far ahead of most PSgames.

Tom: And I think much more believable than that was the fact that this was, if you remember at the time, rushed out to beat Halo to release, right?

Phil: Right, idiotically.

Tom: Yeah, so to me, and it feels, because there's some areas that look great, and they're portioned out into small snippets of areas, even within the one level.

Tom: So you go through, say, to minutes, then you get a loading screen, okay?

Tom: So there's no reason they feasibly couldn't have the same level of quality through every single level, because you've got a loading screen between them.

Tom: You're not moving through absolutely humongous levels where this might have been a problem.

Tom: And often you go through minutes, and the whole thing looks good.

Tom: Then the next minutes snippet, you get the crappiest looking PSgame you've come across.

Tom: It looks like the best thing, given that it's a similar aesthetic, that Warhammer K PSgame, if you've ever played that.

Phil: No, I didn't.

Tom: Because some areas just look like utter crap, and some actually look polished.

Tom: So to me, the main factor for this is clearly the fact that they had to rush this out the door.

Tom: The one last thing I would say is there was clear ambition in what they were doing with this, and when they had the opportunity to, they actually achieved it.

Tom: Like the character models, yes, there's clear problems with texture loading % of the time, but when it actually loads, they achieved their ambition, and it actually looks really awesome.

Tom: So I think it is kind of sad playing it that you see Sony decided that we just want this out before Halo, and so kind of killed it off and destroyed their ambition.

Tom: And this is the other reason, this is the pattern subversion that I have to say, I think the Killzone series deserves a lot more credit than it gets, because it is basically fobbed off as being a generic first person shooter, wannabe, designed just to hopefully kill off Halo with none of the character, right?

Tom: And also none of the quality, because...

Phil: No, I'd say that's absolutely right.

Phil: It's completely unfair, but I think if you were to take the regular person's perspective of Killzone, they were tagged with that Halo killer tag fairly early on.

Phil: And obviously...

Phil: I mean, it's not a Halo killer, it's its own thing, but because it is a platform exclusive game, it's going to get all of the hate that...

Phil: Otherwise, we're not...

Phil: Had this game been released on PC as well, where the PC version would have been obviously noticeably better than the PlayStation version, it probably would be in that Crysis type of level of game.

Tom: Probably a bit below that.

Phil: Maybe Far Cry then?

Phil: In the Far Cry territory, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I'd say possibly below that, because here's the thing, okay?

Tom: Now, I'm probably a lot harsher on the gameplay than you are.

Tom: I think you actually probably enjoyed the gameplay of Killzone more than I did.

Tom: I thought it had really major pacing problems.

Tom: But here's the thing.

Tom: I think they've got huge ambition in what they attempt to do with the gameplay.

Tom: I think they receive absolutely no credit for it, okay?

Tom: So with the first one, yes, they were wanting to, as I said in my impression, somewhat copy-hazardly agree.

Tom: And while they also wanted to do their own thing, it went beyond being a simple corridor shooter at the time because of the way it used these multiple characters with branching pathways and it had the characters having their own unique things.

Tom: So they were trying to pull off something that was actually ambitious and were actually somewhat successful in it.

Tom: If you played as a different character, you had a completely different experience and you had to play the game very differently, right?

Tom: So if I was to play as Rico who has this ridiculously overpowered automatic machine gun, you plow through the level playing it as if you were Doom almost.

Tom: But if you play as Luger who has a really good semi-sword of sniper rifle which is, because the aiming is controlled just as a normal weapon, you basically play it as a sniper.

Tom: If you play through it as Hacker, you get often a large amount of access.

Tom: You've got, sorry, if you play through it as Hacker, his unique weapon to begin with is the Hoga assault rifle which is the intermediate sort of rifle which is good all around.

Tom: And if you play through it as Luger, you've got the powerful but terribly inaccurate ISA assault rifle.

Tom: So you've got to basically play it where you are concentrating on doing as much damage in a short period as possible, whereas in Luger, you can play it as a traditional corridor shooter where you just shoot people then hide, right?

Tom: So they've actually got a system where it takes a corridor shooter structure that makes it interesting by giving you four further options to play through, right?

Tom: In Killzone even in the single player campaign, they set out to make an experience that was aesthetically its own thing and different to any other first person shooter.

Tom: And while it did this through borrowing very heavily from a vast amount of source material, doing that, it came up with this really clever, subversive, unique thing, right?

Phil: Well, Killzone was such a short campaign mode that it really didn't matter in terms of pacing.

Tom: Yeah, well to me it did.

Tom: It really dragged the points to me.

Tom: Because I think the reason is it didn't reach high enough...

Phil: Crescendos, right.

Phil: Yeah, it was probably because you were so anxious to get into the multiplayer that you were like, come on, come on, finish this up, I want to move on.

Tom: Possibly, possibly.

Tom: Well, but all of those things could be forgiven for...

Tom: They literally did do...

Tom: They achieved Sony's ambition of making Halo killer.

Tom: That Killzone Online, I'm telling you, is every bit as good as Halo was online.

Tom: But then with Killzone and with the knowledge that all their subversive stuff was % deliberate, I'm going to give them a huge amount of leeway.

Tom: And also now that I've actually played more Call of Duty clones than I had at the time, when I played Killzone it pissed me off so much that they decided to forget their awesome, so unique weapon systems that had their own film and go into the copying Call of Duty path, right?

Tom: The thing is, they actually succeeded in being a Call of Duty clone so much better than so many other first-person shooters.

Tom: Now that I've actually played more of them that are copying mechanics from Call of Duty, even Speckoffs does it, and Call of Duty actually nailed it.

Tom: They did it so that it took Call of Duty's core focus on set pieces, extremely fast-pacing.

Phil: You mean Killzone nailed it?

Tom: Yeah, it nailed it.

Tom: Nailed copying, Call of Duty, fast-fire set pieces, constant crescendos in pacing of the campaign, and the ease with which you can kill people in the fast movement.

Tom: And I have to say, I actually enjoy it more than Call of Duty, because as I was saying in my Black Ops impressions a while ago, and the article I did for Laser Lemmy, it's completely deceptive on Call of Duty and is so crafted towards multiplayer.

Tom: So it makes it appear that you're running around quickly and killing enemies very quickly, which works much better for multiplayer than it does for the campaign.

Tom: So to me, I think Killzone took what Call of Duty was doing in its campaign and does it far better.

Tom: I'll let that sink in for a minute.

Tom: So once I've got over the massive disappointment that the multiplayer was, because no one is going to copy Call of Duty and do something as well of it because it is done to perfection.

Tom: No one should even consider doing that.

Tom: You cannot beat it.

Tom: Killzone is the last...

Phil: Let me just say this.

Tom: Yeah, sorry.

Tom: I've destroyed the whole structure.

Phil: Right now, if for you to say that Killzone is a better Call of Duty than Call of Duty, particularly on the multiplayer...

Phil: No, no, no.

Tom: I said on the single player.

Tom: Not in the multiplayer.

Tom: I've just been saying it was a terrible decision to copy Call of Duty on the multiplayer.

Tom: Killzone did its awesome equally good on my multiplayer to Halo by doing something different to Halo

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So now that I've got this appointment over Killzone I actually have so much more respect for it because it basically did what Call of Duty has done better than it while parodying it at the same time.

Tom: I just cannot comprehend how there's so many reviews of Killzone that say, yeah, it's copying Call of Duty's campaign, but it's shit.

Tom: No, it does the set pieces better than Call of Duty.

Phil: As well you can imagine because they're a company that's focused particularly on one individual product that they can release every three to four years as opposed to Call of Duty, which has to come out every year or for the alternate studios every two years.

Phil: All right, I just want to give you an opportunity to defend yourself because you would sound like a total Sony fanboy.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, a Sony fanboy if you were to say that the campaign mode of Killzone is better than...

Phil: If the multiplayer mode of Killzone is better than Call of Duty, that would be out of hand...

Tom: .

Tom: on the PlayStation

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but, you know...

Tom: I don't see that associated with Microsoft, really.

Tom: And if you look on LaserLaming, by the way, we are clearly Sony fanboys because Chris released an article pointing out a few interesting things about the Microsoft console release, which preceded my Nintendo article, so it would appear that quite clearly we are Sony fanboys.

Tom: So, actually, you're right.

Phil: It would indeed, but it wouldn't...

Phil: But in terms of correction, I'm not actually correct because what you're saying is the single-player mode of Call of Duty I was correcting myself.

Phil: is better than Call of Duty, and it doesn't take much to be better than the single-player mode of Call of Duty these days.

Tom: No, I'm saying it's better than any Call of Duty.

Tom: This is better than the first Call of Duty and Call of Duty

Tom: Yeah, I'm going there.

Phil: I'd probably put Call of Duty above Killzone

Tom: Well, Call of Duty is incomparably superior to Killzone

Tom: I can say Call of Duty because Call of Duty is exactly the same as Call of Duty, by the way.

Tom: I'm sorry to know that.

Tom: Yeah, they're both incredibly above Killzone

Tom: This is what I'm saying.

Tom: I was shocked by the campaign of Killzone because I was not expecting them to do it so well.

Tom: Let's end just very quickly on Spec Ops, okay?

Tom: Because I want to end this on a positive note.

Tom: Wait!

Phil: We've got to finish the Yakuza Killzone Minute with the Yakuza News.

Tom: I thought you did.

Tom: It'd be going on for so long.

Tom: I'd forgotten.

Tom: No, we haven't...

Phil: We're in the Yakuza Killzone Minute, so there is some Yakuza News to answer.

Tom: See, just change...

Tom: This is just showing I'm an even bigger Killzone fanboy than a Yakuza one, that I just went on for like a second round of Killzone and then forgot that we were also meant to talk about Yakuza.

Phil: You're ignoring the most important part of the Yakuza Killzone Minute, and that's the Yakuza part.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: So Sega has been petitioned this week by change.org, and they've been asked to release Yakuza in the West.

Phil: There's been no evidence so far that Yakuza is going to be released in the West, and so far, there's been a petition that's been put out to ask Sega to release this game, and it's reached signatures.

Tom: Have you been part of this campaign?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: I mean, you know, I was a big proponent of the Yakuza letter writing component, where I convinced Sega single-handedly to release Yakuza in the West with subtitles.

Phil: Sega didn't have to dub it.

Phil: And right now, we've reached signatures.

Phil: And we just encourage people to go to change.org or just Google change.org Yakuza and sign the petition.

Phil: I mean, the old joke in gaming podcasts was, you know, online petitions, they can change the world.

Phil: Well, yeah, but actually, if you look at it, I mean, you look at old, what was the last story and Pandora's Tower and all the rest of it?

Phil: I mean, what basically these petitions can do is influence third party publishers like ArcSys to bring over games that perhaps Sega or Nintendo doesn't want to release themselves.

Phil: So basically, by signing these petitions, you're saying, I will buy this game if it's released.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: If this doesn't work, I don't see, unless a third party company like ArcSys brings over Yakuza

Phil: I don't see Sega bringing it over, quite frankly, at this point.

Tom: I'm hopeful and it has worked for the Yakuza series before, as you know only too well.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: There is talk, at least.

Phil: I know you've got some game impressions as well this week.

Tom: I did want to talk about Spec Ops last time, because you are still very disinhartened by my bashing of the game, right?

Tom: Although I did clear it up a little on the last podcast.

Tom: A little?

Phil: You can go back and download...

Phil: What was that?

Phil: Spec Ops ?

Phil: That was our first episode, actually.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: And about an hour and minutes into it, we do a Spec Ops spoiler cast, in which Tom spends minutes shooting on the PC port of the game.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: You know what?

Tom: I'm just going to take this opportunity to say, I have to correct myself there, because I said there weren't any glitches that would affect my enjoyment of the story, right?

Tom: I've forgotten one of the most obnoxious glitches was that the cutscenes would start and there would be no sound.

Tom: So I would have to then, after the cutscene, go to YouTube to watch the fucking cutscene with sound.

Phil: Let me just remind you that we still don't have a donate button on our website.

Phil: So complaining about your lame computer, which apparently is the only one in the world that won't play in excellence, pickups the line port.

Tom: Lame port.

Tom: Steels is the only one that would play the port.

Tom: I know of another PC that had exactly the same problems, and might I add, had even more glitches than I did.

Phil: And their PC was more powerful.

Phil: Was it bought from the same op shop?

Phil: Alright.

Phil: So what did you find out about the multiplayer?

Tom: Yeah, okay.

Tom: So the multiplayer, now here's the thing.

Tom: This was, is not, you're not playing through the missions from the game in co-op, because obviously that wouldn't work due to the choices in the game play, right?

Phil: Right, right, of course.

Tom: So what they did was they made four short co-op levels.

Tom: Now, playing through these, I can't help but wonder why they didn't use set pieces like you can experience in these levels more often.

Tom: There's a lot of moments where at times they could have changed up the facing a little if they had just one of these levels.

Tom: They're basically the core game play of the original where you hide behind cover, shoot the people down and then move forward, strategically moving from cover to cover, right?

Phil: Right.

Tom: It's a game territory.

Tom: Now in the main story, they don't sort of direct you in any direction.

Tom: It's more sort of open, right?

Tom: So you can kind of choose how to go through the areas yourself, yeah?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: That's how the game was basically structured.

Tom: Well, in these, it's much more funneling.

Tom: So the paths are narrower, so you can't move more laterally.

Tom: You're basically always forced to move directly forwards.

Tom: Now this very simple change makes the fire fights so much more intense.

Tom: And I'm not saying they should have done this the whole time, but I think it would have been very beneficial to the pacing and made it more interesting if they just had a couple of areas where you were kind of funneled through an area.

Tom: So just sort of switch things up, right?

Phil: Right, right.

Tom: Yeah, because even though it was a short game, there were times where I felt, okay, the fire fights are a little same.

Tom: And they did change things up with certain set pieces, like the one where I was complaining about the guy shooting the people flanking you, right?

Tom: But I think...

Phil: Most of the fire fights were in the medium range.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And then they would change it up with somewhere...

Tom: With the short ones.

Phil: You'd want to be using your short gun and, yeah, be in the middle...

Phil: Short and immediate range.

Tom: But I think the thing that makes this work so well, but would have made...

Tom: Given an excellent extra dimension to the skill play, is you're not forced to use either your close range, medium or long.

Tom: It depends on who you need to kill at the time.

Tom: So you've got to be constantly switching through them, right?

Tom: So there's freedom with what weapons you're using.

Tom: So it's kind of the design philosophy difference between Deus Ex and Bioshock, where in Bioshock, your choices are based entirely on what equipment you use, right, and what the enemies are doing, whereas in Deus Ex, it's decided basically entirely on your environment, right?

Tom: Albeit they achieve this effect by affecting the environment.

Tom: But I basically think that would have been well-utilized in the single player.

Tom: Now, in the co-op, it's a lot of fun.

Tom: The thing is, because you're playing with another person who is not brain dumb, unless you happen to choose to play with someone that is like that...

Phil: That happened to me this week.

Tom: You have to play on hard, or it is just a piss day.

Tom: You can just use your MPand just sprint through the level, shooting everything.

Tom: You can sprint through the level hitting people with melee, and just sprint to the end of the level, right?

Tom: It's just too fucking easy.

Tom: Now, the problem is hard is still quite a challenge.

Tom: Not being as incredibly hard, it's intense.

Tom: You've got to have what's about you, right?

Tom: The problem is the net code is really poor.

Tom: Now, I say this with the disclaimer that I'm in Australia, and the person I was playing is in New Zealand.

Tom: So, neither country is famous for their high speed internet, right?

Phil: No.

Phil: And again, we're talking about Spec Ops The Line here, which is you're playing on the PC, which is renowned for its story, but the gameplay is less than stellar, particularly if you're playing it in multiplayer online.

Tom: But the thing is, it's actually not.

Tom: If you were playing online with an excellent connection, with someone who is good at the game and is interested in an arcade experience where you basically just try to get from the beginning of the level to the end, it is actually excellent.

Tom: It's incredibly simple.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, as I was saying, if you had been paying attention, as I was saying, it is a very simple premise that is very enjoyable, but is let down by the netcode, because if you're playing on hard, because it is such a great balance between challenge and satisfaction, if you don't have your wits about you, you're screwed.

Tom: If you don't have your connection, almost perfect, you're screwed.

Phil: Yeah, but that's pretty common.

Phil: And then you also add the caveat that if you're not playing with someone who, you know, kind of knows what they're doing, you're kind of screwed.

Tom: Well, you need to find someone of a similar skill level.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But if you do, it's excellent.

Tom: Now, the problem with the online is it seems far worse than just what we would experience with normal Australian to New Zealand connections.

Tom: We've never played a game together.

Tom: We've played quite a few that has problems anywhere near this band.

Tom: So even if we've got a reasonable connection, we'll be sticking to cover and maybe we'll be jumping out of cover.

Tom: We'll be shooting people.

Tom: At least % of our bullets won't be registering, right?

Tom: And worst of all, though this is only present when we're playing on a much worse connection, we'll be teleporting around the fucking level.

Tom: So we'll be walking along, then suddenly appear paces behind us.

Tom: Then suddenly appear paces in front, right between different enemies who are then going to just kill us on the spot.

Tom: So if we get a bad connection, it is effectively unplayable.

Tom: And the problem is, because normally it's so easy with two people, if you get a good connection on it where you've got the minor problem, it's really boring.

Tom: But if you manage to play this in a...

Tom: in perfect conditions, I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised and impressed.

Tom: It was very good.

Tom: So all credit...

Tom: all credit to them on that.

Phil: I've got to ask, I mean, like, you did not have a very pleasant experience with this game on the PC, in terms of its PC port.

Phil: So why did you endeavor to explore the multiplayer?

Tom: Well, actually, we wanted something to play, and we've both been playing through the game at the same time, so we thought, why not?

Phil: Okay, well, that's what you've been playing.

Phil: This week, I finished up Bully, The Walking Dead and Serious Sam

Phil: Just some final thoughts on those.

Phil: Serious Sam the ending was ridiculous, and as I said in the last podcast, basically they introduced the jetpacks, which could have been used as a replacement for the tomb levels to spice things up a little bit.

Phil: So nothing much more to say there, other than I thought it was a great game.

Phil: I'd give it an out of

Phil: Bully, I finished up, and it's difficult to really judge the game.

Tom: Wait, hang on.

Tom: I've got a question for you, by the way.

Tom: Did you end up going to YouTube and watching the final cutscene of Serious Sam?

Phil: Of Serious Sam?

Phil: No, I did not.

Tom: Because I'm % sure there was one, but I'm still waiting for confirmation from you.

Phil: Right.

Phil: I know basically for our listeners, Tom helped me finish Serious Sam online because the last boss is so ridiculous.

Phil: And then during the final stages of the game, the cutscene was interrupted due to a technical glitch.

Phil: So I didn't get to see the final cutscene.

Phil: Bully, it's difficult to really judge it through the lenses of

Phil: Overall, I'd probably say it was lesser than The Warriors in terms of Rockstar's spin-off series from the Grand Theft Auto game.

Phil: And ultimately my memories of this game will be that it was one that was too simple and without challenge.

Phil: There was only about twice in the game where I had to do any challenge twice.

Phil: And also the character development of the game was fairly meek with the main character really only expressing himself at the end of each of the five chapters.

Phil: Which basically boiled down to the bully is bullying people because he wishes to win back the control that has been taken from him.

Phil: In essence that he is being put into a boarding school out of his control and therefore he is trying to win control over the elements in his life in which he can.

Phil: So pretty shallow.

Phil: I can see why people like it.

Phil: But again, I probably would have liked it a lot more had I played it when I bought it at launch as opposed to now in

Phil: And The Walking Dead is something...

Tom: Can I just ask, do you think you would have enjoyed it more if you had played the next-gen Inverted Commons version?

Phil: No.

Phil: If this was the same game with the same themes and the same level of challenge, I don't think I would have enjoyed it any more or less.

Phil: This game basically needed much more engagement, and the story and the characters were very two-dimensional.

Phil: So it wasn't engaging in forms of its gameplay nor its character development.

Phil: All the same, it was a very polished game, and I gave it extra points for the creative setting, that being set in a high school, and also for the provocative nature of the content within those constraints.

Phil: So I'd probably give this one an out of as well.

Phil: So that's pretty positive, then.

Phil: Overall, yes.

Phil: I mean, you take five games off the shelf, this game is going to probably beat all of them in terms of its quality of development.

Phil: And then I also played The Walking Dead, which we'll talk more about in the next episode.

Phil: Having said that, I have no idea where we're going next, except for perhaps the outro.

Phil: I'd really encourage people to go to gameunder.net.

Phil: We update it about three or four times or sometimes even five times a week in terms of stories that we're breaking or stuff that's happening on Twitter.

Phil: You can also listen to us on stitcherradio.com.

Phil: This is something that's happened just this week, which is a great free app and an easy way to listen to us on your iPad or any sort of tablet or iPhone or Android device, so that's Stitcher Radio.

Phil: Also, we're on iTunes now, which we went on in the last episode, believe it or not.

Phil: So if you can find us on iTunes, good luck to you.

Phil: Go ahead and give us a...

Phil: Yeah, if you go to iTunes, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Phil: If you put in the actual words Game Under Podcast, you will not find us, which is ludicrous.

Phil: So basically, just go to our site and click on the link that says Listen to iTunes, if that's how you download stuff.

Phil: Other than that...

Tom: I think they're pissed off about my Steve Jobs comments.

Tom: And the eulogy one isn't going to help either, because if they were doing eulogies, it would have been for Steve Jobs as well.

Phil: So I'm Phil Fogg.

Tom: You're Tom Towers.

Phil: And this has been another episode of Game under...

Phil: .net podcast..net podcast thing.

Phil: There you go.

Tom: Yeah, and once again, seriously, follow him on Twitter, as you can see.

Tom: He's getting the inside scoop that you can't find anywhere else.

Phil: Oh, yeah, I forgot to promote that too.

Phil: Game Under Phil. Follow me at Game Under Phil.

Tom: Well, you did say Twitter.

Phil: At Twitter. Twitter at Game Under Phil. This probably explains why I don't have any followers.

Game Under Episode 2

Tom Towers and Phil Fogg break from their monthly podcasting schedule  go over the week's news and anything else gaming related in their lives.​

Stream Above or Download Directly Here (right-click then save as).​​  You may also listen to our shows using Stitcher.

Also, please subscribe to our podcast using RSS by clicking here.​​ Or Subscribe with iTunes.

Howl of the Dragon Golfer
0:01 (MP3) (Article Source) (EP)

YakuzaKillzONE MINUTE
2:45 Kaz is coming to Hots Shots Golf.

4:04 Killzone Director Says PS4 is Not Just a High End PC​

NEWS

​7:29 Nintendo Direct Conference

40:25 March 2013 NPD

Sega Saturn with Memory Card

Transcript

Tom: The Yakuza with the heart of gold, always had a bit of an income for gold, and now we can take that income in new lives.

Tom: Moving from mini-game gold to full-game painting gold, with no handicap in Japan at least for yen.

Tom: Flying Pikmin, and a ridiculous amount of DS announcements.

Tom: Why not play a laser beam and a gold-pistachio instead?

Tom: As long as that's not a user-missing, there ain't beating in your head.

Tom: So join two men that's a bit egress, as they address the haunted lines on laserlemon.com and the rest.

Tom: On Game Under's first micro-podcast, focus on the new Unitarian Manor, as far as fire format.

Tom: As you can probably gather from that intro, this is in fact the Game under.net podcast.

Tom: I am Tom Towers, and I'm joined by co-host Phineas Fogg.

Tom: Because I have to correct your name next.

Tom: And yeah, and we've got to give full credit to the music, which was in fact not original content made by us, but How the Dragon Goat from the Yakuza soundtrack.

Tom: And if you were paying attention to the lyrics, you would have discovered that they were not only introducing the podcast, but also telling us all about the first thing we will be discussing, which is the fact that Kazuma Kiryu is a DLC character in Hotshot Golf World Invitational in Japan.

Phil: Well, beyond that, you know, Tom, I think, first of all, we should say that that was an original song.

Phil: That song, as it appeared first in Yakuza did not have your lyrics over the top of it.

Tom: That is true.

Phil: And I've got to say, I'm pretty disappointed with that song.

Phil: It kind of spoiled the podcast for me.

Phil: Now I know what's coming up.

Tom: Well, it's meant to whip your appetite for what's coming.

Phil: Well, I've read the script for this week's podcast, and I don't think my character Phil Fogg gets enough development.

Phil: I thought we would be moving along a lot earlier, you know, at this point of the show, but I'll go along with it.

Tom: I'm still waiting for him to contribute something musically.

Phil: Well, he's contributed enough by introducing our Yakuza Killzone Minute.

Phil: Which is everyone's favorite part of the show where we must at least dedicate some time to Killzone and or Yakuza.

Phil: And fortunately for us, I was reading on lasallemming.com this week that Kazumakiro is coming to the PlayStation and PS Vita Hotshots Golf World Invitational.

Phil: And we'll have these pictures available for people to look at, but you can just go to LasalLemming and see them yourselves.

Phil: But starting actually this week for about $in Japan, people can download Kaz for Hotshots.

Phil: And the pictures show like a cheaper little version of him in the locker room.

Phil: You can cut his hair, you can put a bow on him and other things.

Phil: And then they also show, which we're using on our front page actually, if you just want to go to gameunder.net, you'll see the front page, his birdie shot.

Phil: Every time you get a birdie, you have like a triumphal animation in Hotshots.

Tom: In which he grabs a mic stand.

Phil: Yes, yes, because he has to sing karaoke.

Phil: So, yeah, so that's what I had for Yakuza this week.

Phil: What have you got in Killzone News?

Tom: Well, apparently the technical director of Guerrilla Games, Michael Vandalau, has been rather offended by the claims that the PSis basically just a high-end PC.

Phil: Which, well, I object with that.

Phil: I object to that.

Phil: It's not a high-end PC.

Phil: It's like a mid-range PC.

Tom: Well, that was the first problem I was going to raise, is that it's clearly not a high-end PC.

Tom: And the second would be, I don't think that's really a bad thing to be compared to, even a mid-range PC for a console.

Tom: But he says, the fact that the best pieces of hardware are also devised from or optimised versions of the sub-refinery in PCs doesn't make it any less a console.

Tom: He goes on to say, in response to people, that's difficult because people are trolling, right?

Tom: What do you say to a troll?

Tom: You don't feed the trolls.

Tom: That will make them grow.

Tom: This is a statement he said directly after responding to the trolls by saying, it's not a computer.

Phil: What I found interesting about this is that he explains how Guerrilla Games, they were basically working with Sony, well, they're owned by Sony, in terms of their feedback that they gave.

Phil: They said that their feedback resulted in at least five changes to the graphics chip, the CPU and the bandwidth between the components, which is going to be RAM, which I thought was kind of extraordinary.

Phil: I mean, on the one hand, it shows that actually it's all positive, really, that Sony is at least going to their first party publishers and saying, hey guys, this is what we're thinking about hardware.

Phil: Is this going to work for what you think your next generation game will be?

Tom: And Guerrilla seems like a pretty logical choice to do just that, because Killzone and at the beginning of the PlayStation lifecycle was easily one of the best looking games, and still looks pretty damn incredible.

Tom: So if they were going to go to one of their first party developers, it's not surprising that they will go to someone like Guerrilla Games.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: And also because those guys are Eastern European, I mean, they're basically going to, you know, they're not going to play any games.

Phil: They're going to say, look, hey, this is what we need.

Phil: This is what, you know, I know Epic played that role for Microsoft and the Xbox in terms of doubling the amount of RAM in that system.

Phil: You know, Epic basically said, look, our engine isn't going to run on your system unless you double the RAM on it.

Tom: They then released a statement five days later saying that it will run on anything and expect the same.

Phil: Including an Android phone.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: All right.

Phil: Well, that was our Yakuza Killzone Minute.

Phil: And from there, we should probably tell our regular listeners, we will be podcasting once a month our show gameunder.net, but we will be doing as many shows in between those monthly intervals as we see fit as big news.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Or something interesting.

Tom: Such as the Yakuza News.

Phil: Such as the Yakuza News, I mean.

Phil: I know, man.

Phil: It only applies to our Japanese listeners who speak English at this point.

Phil: But it's pretty big news.

Phil: But the big news this week was of course Nintendo Direct.

Phil: There was a Nintendo Direct conference.

Phil: These things are always revealed basically at the last minute.

Phil: And this time, sometimes we have a Japanese Nintendo Direct, sometimes we have a Western one.

Phil: This time we had two at the same time.

Phil: There was a Japanese and Western Nintendo Direct conference.

Phil: And from that, some news appeared.

Phil: And then there was quite the reaction to the news that appeared.

Phil: Now, in the past, these Nintendo Directs have been pretty disappointing.

Phil: They don't typically reveal any big news.

Phil: But this one did have some big news.

Phil: And that was mostly a DS heavy release schedule.

Phil: So we'll start with the biggest of news, and then we'll work our way down.

Phil: Link to the Past was announced for the DS.

Phil: This will be coming out in early

Phil: This was already playable, and members of the media were allowed to play the game.

Tom: And there's lots of gameplay videos floating around.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Nintendo says that all dungeons and puzzles are new, which is interesting, because fairly shortly after, there was a screenshot that showed that at least some parts of Link to the Past are exactly like the original Link to the Past.

Tom: Yeah, that was a shot of a forest or a town.

Phil: Which I think is fine, because if I were to have a sequel to one of the most popular Legend of Zelda games of all time, and plenty of people list this as the greatest game of all time, it would make sense that you'd have at least a tribute level, and that may be what people have seen.

Phil: But I did find it interesting that Nintendo qualified that all dungeons and puzzles are new.

Phil: And I may be reading too much into that, but that means to me that, well, what isn't new, right?

Tom: Well, going by that screenshot, perhaps the world map is exactly the same.

Phil: Yeah, something else that's new in the game is the ability to become a wall drawing, to crawl across ledges and, you know, basically they took the woodcut art from Wind Waker and you can basically become a, what do you call it, a pictograph or a hieroglyph and crawl across ledges.

Phil: The only other thing, before we get to your reaction to this news, was that in the West it's called Legends of Zelda.

Phil: In Japan, on the Japanese Nintendo Direct, they call this Link to the Past

Phil: So, or more explicitly, a sequel to Link to the Past.

Phil: So in the Japanese Nintendo Direct, they made it very clear that this is a sequel, but the Western title doesn't make that as clear.

Tom: I think this might be in anticipation of people getting pissed off about a sequel to an old Zelda game where everyone is still waiting for a new Wii U Zelda.

Phil: Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

Phil: They know that in the West, they're far more sensitive to criticisms of just releasing sequel after sequel after sequel of the same old game over and over again.

Phil: So if you call it explicitly Link to the Past sequel to Link to the Past, that's really going to undercut your marketing.

Phil: So, but nevertheless, I mean a follow up to what many people consider the greatest game of all time is big news.

Phil: And hopefully they've done it right.

Phil: I'm sure they are.

Phil: I think EAD is doing development on this.

Phil: They're not subbing it out.

Tom: Well, the gameplay videos look pretty promising.

Tom: The most interesting part of it is that I saw, and you can't really get a sense of how this works watching videos of it, but how they're using D to basically show vertical depth so that the levels are basically designed so that you're moving around them and you're often having to jump up to higher levels while also watching the lower levels.

Tom: So a lot of the puzzle solving appears to be simply climbing up the dungeon from level to level as opposed to in older Zelda dungeons where you're basically just looking for a key, right, to then move on to the next level through a door.

Tom: So that could turn out to be a pretty revolutionary change to the structure of the Dramagens.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I'd have to agree.

Phil: I mean, I don't think that this is...

Phil: Many people are looking at that one screenshot that's been put up in every gaming forum on the planet and thinking, oh, maybe this is just a rescan, but I do think there's obviously some pretty new game design elements being introduced in this game.

Phil: Another sequel that was announced was Yoshi's Island DS, another game for the handheld.

Phil: Now, this is supposedly Yoshi's Island but Yoshi's Island was already released.

Phil: I don't know if you remember, there was a Yoshi's Island DS game, which was a sequel to the game.

Phil: And in Japan, it was released as Yoshi's Island but two weeks before its North American release, they changed it to Yoshi's Island DS, which again may have been the same sort of thing that we were talking about just a few minutes ago in terms of the different brandings.

Phil: So this is actually Yoshi's Island

Phil: Yoshi's Island did receive pretty good critical success as I recall, but no one remembers it.

Phil: So I mean, it's a new game.

Phil: It reproduces the game play of the original.

Phil: It's basically just a D platformer.

Phil: And for me, what was disappointing when I looked at the game play was that it looked exactly like the SNES original.

Phil: The DS is obviously more powerful, capable of, you know, much more than just reproducing SNES games.

Phil: Yeah, and again, I don't know what message it brings.

Phil: Again, this is the DS.

Phil: We've already seen a sequel to F-Zero on it.

Phil: You know, we've got Link to the Past

Phil: We've got Yoshi's Island now, you know.

Phil: So again...

Tom: You know, I'm looking at it.

Tom: Hang on.

Tom: I'm looking at the game play video.

Tom: This doesn't really look like the SNES version at all.

Tom: It looks to me more along the lines of in terms of the foreground and the characters.

Tom: You Super Mario Brothers, we you or we at a lower resolution.

Tom: We have painted backgrounds.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: But it's the same art style pasted on top of their current DS D platformer engine, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That is true, yeah.

Tom: I like the look of it, I have to say.

Phil: Well, the look of the original Yoshi's Island was the best part about it.

Phil: The crying baby Mario was the worst thing about it.

Phil: So it's okay to bring back the art style.

Phil: In fact, I wanted them to bring back the art style.

Phil: I just was expecting more than a reskinned New Super Mario Brothers.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: So moving on, the next new thing that they announced was that they will be publishing a game that was released by Square Enix, Bravely Default, which is a turn-based JRPG.

Phil: It's developed by Silicon Studio, the same people that did D drop Game Heroes, and sold extremely well in Japan, and would have been...

Phil: Everyone was saying, I know Cat Bailey was saying that she thought it would be an easy game to localize for the West, and indeed, Nintendo will be doing the localization of it.

Phil: It's a game that Square opted not to bring over.

Phil: It's called Bravely Default Flying Fairy in Japan.

Phil: In the West, it will just be known as Bravely Default.

Phil: Surprisingly.

Phil: Yeah, it has both turn-based and multi-hit combination moves for the battling, but the part of the game that's interesting beyond the quirky characters is that when you're in a fight, you can basically pick to go Bravely or the Default.

Phil: And if you go the Default mode, then basically it fights the battle for you, and you may win, you may not.

Phil: If you choose to go the Bravely route, then they have a multi-hit time-based combo type fighting that requires more skill.

Phil: So that explains the name a little bit more.

Tom: This would be how it works with an individual attack.

Tom: It's not like it plays out the entire battle for you.

Phil: Right.

Phil: As you're going into a fight, you get to pick, do you want to go Bravely or do you want to go Default?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So it's kind of like Final Fantasy VIII or Legend of the Groon, but probably more complicated.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Probably.

Phil: And it also has a more fast...

Phil: You know, it's more paced to modern sensitivities as opposed to those games as well.

Phil: So this is great news.

Phil: This is like the first game that's not called Animal Crossing that I'm actually excited about coming to the DS.

Phil: So, I mean, it's brilliant.

Phil: And Nintendo had previously said...

Phil: Iwata had previously said that they were looking for Japanese titles that they could bring to the West, that, you know, if the third parties weren't going to publish and localize them, that they would themselves.

Phil: And this is obviously a good move, and this also shows a high level of cooperation between Nintendo and Square.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: It's good to see.

Tom: And there's a game that does in fact look visually good for the DS, DS.

Phil: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Phil: It's not just a SNES game with a new coat of paint, so I'm pretty excited about that.

Phil: Do you want to hit some of the other points here?

Tom: Sure.

Tom: There is a Mario Party game for DS.

Tom: Now, have there been any handheld Mario Party games before?

Phil: For the DS, yes.

Phil: But not for the DS.

Tom: So is there much to say about Mario Party?

Tom: I mean, I'm assuming it is like all the other ones.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: There's nothing much to say here.

Phil: If you like Mario Party, that's great.

Phil: The only thing I'd want to know, and perhaps on a lack of research here, if it were online, if it were not online, then it would be terrible, because Mario, when you're playing Mario Party by yourself with three AI characters, it's the dumbest, most depressing...

Phil: it's like sitting at home playing Monopoly with yourself.

Phil: It's just terrible.

Phil: So if it has an online mode, that's acceptable.

Phil: I mean, if it had an online mode, it's not just acceptable, it would be fucking awesome.

Phil: If it doesn't have an online mode, and they're just counting on Japanese people playing this on the bullet train on the way to work, then it will be terrible for the West.

Tom: Well, there's one way it could work, is if quite a few of the multiplayer handheld games, they have it so that you can have, say, four people playing on the one game, right?

Phil: Mm-hmm.

Tom: Then it could work, even if they're in an online mode.

Tom: But if they're expecting everyone to buy their own copy for it and link up, that would be fucked.

Phil: You know, that is an excellent reason, because families typically have, when we talk about families, we're talking about a traditional nuclear family with two parents and multiple children.

Phil: It's not uncommon for them to at least have two DSs or DSs or DSs.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And if the parents had to buy a cartridge for each of those DSs for Mario Party to work, that wouldn't ever happen, ever.

Phil: So, yeah, yeah, good idea.

Phil: You saved the day.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: If they could have, yeah, game sharing, that would be awesome.

Phil: And Nintendo has done that before for like Mario Kart DS and things like that.

Tom: So it's a possibility.

Tom: And the next thing up is New Super Luigi U, which is basically just a DLC which lets you play as Luigi in New Super Mario Bros.

Tom: U, right?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: I thought this was a new game, and when I found out it was a download for the old game, my reaction was, you've got to be kidding me.

Phil: But, I mean, what was your reaction?

Tom: See, I thought it was a new game as well.

Tom: Then I watched the videos, and I was watching them and thinking, this looks exactly like New Super Mario Bros.

Tom: Wii U, except Luigi is in it.

Tom: What the fuck are they doing?

Tom: Literally making the same game again.

Tom: So my reaction was one of relief when I found out it was actually just DLC.

Phil: Just a patch, right?

Tom: Yeah, that would have been completely ridiculous if it was what it appears to be.

Phil: As redundant as Nintendo's game publishing has become, you're right.

Phil: I mean, a patch to modify an existing game is at least more honest than perhaps what they've done in other games.

Phil: You know, I mean, there was a time when maybe they called this New Super Princess Peach U, release it as an entirely new game, and just have Princess Peach with an umbrella in it.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So we say with the Mario Party, I think we're up to like Mario Party now.

Phil: You know, where it's the same game, it's just a patch.

Tom: It's just a theme.

Phil: Like if it was The Sims, you'd be downloading themes.

Phil: You wouldn't be downloading individual games.

Phil: So this has new courses on the same world map.

Phil: So the same world map, but new courses.

Phil: So I'm not quite sure what that means.

Phil: And they bring back Luigi's Floaty Jump as well for this one.

Tom: Because you're so slippery as you was in Super Mario Galaxy.

Phil: Oh, I have to be.

Phil: I would think so.

Tom: So if there's new courses, that sounds like levels to me.

Phil: Yeah, but on the same world map.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: I don't believe that.

Phil: I think it might be new ways to traverse the same levels.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That makes more sense.

Tom: Is this paid DLC or is it a free add-on?

Phil: No, you will be paying.

Tom: Yeah, that sucks if you're basically just paying for Luigi.

Phil: Yeah, depending on your perspective of Luigi and how much you love him.

Tom: Well, I like Luigi, but I mean, is it really worth paying just to have him in the game?

Tom: He's not...

Phil: Not for you.

Phil: You'd have to buy a Wii U and then you'd have to buy New Super Mario Bros.

Phil: You.

Tom: And then the DLC.

Phil: And then the DLC.

Phil: So I'd say for you, definitely not worth it.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Regardless of your Luigi love.

Tom: But moving on, probably the most interesting news is that Earthbound is going to be coming to the Virtual Console this year.

Tom: And this is in the West as well as Japan, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Well, in Japan, it's already been out, right?

Tom: Okay.

Phil: So this has already been available in the Virtual Console in Japan.

Phil: Now, they're just bringing it to the West.

Phil: And there were problems with the licensing and content of the game, which is why they've always said they've never brought it out here before.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So some of the music, they say they couldn't bring out because it's too close.

Phil: They ripped off a lot of music.

Phil: They ripped off a lot of other IP like Charlie Brown and things like that.

Phil: So it will be at least interesting to see what they change about the game to make it acceptable for release in the West.

Phil: Or if they just leave it the same and we find out that what they've been telling us is just BS all these years.

Tom: Maybe they managed to clear all the licenses.

Phil: Yeah, right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, you know, this is of course Mother and it's the only Mother game that has been released to the West.

Phil: I don't understand the appeal of this game.

Phil: I have the SNES original.

Phil: I've tried to play it twice.

Phil: It bogs down pretty quickly into the game.

Phil: The pacing of it is pretty poor.

Phil: And it's not really challenging.

Phil: I mean, this is a -year-old game.

Phil: So I just don't understand the market for this.

Phil: If it's nostalgia people, then let's assume that the target age of the original game were -year-olds.

Phil: So they'd now be

Phil: So I think this is the real reason why they've never brought these out before.

Phil: Because, I mean, the game never sold well to start with.

Phil: I know it has a cult following.

Phil: I just don't know who this game is for.

Phil: Maybe just for people who have always wanted, you know, have heard tale of it and they're like, okay, I want to pay it, but I don't want to, you know, pay an exorbitant price for it on eBay or buy a SNES.

Tom: Well, that's what I think it will be.

Tom: I mean, it is basically over the years gone on a huge mystique.

Tom: So everyone basically knows about it more than you would expect of even old RPGs that are considered classics.

Tom: I mean, everyone's heard of it.

Tom: The fact that it has not been released in the West makes it appeal to people so much more than if it had previously.

Tom: I mean, if it had been released in the West, even if it had been successful, you wouldn't get so many people constantly going on about wanting to play it and wanting it to be on the Virtual Console.

Tom: I mean, when the Virtual Console was first announced, this was one of the first games that everyone hoped would appear on it, if you remember.

Phil: Yep, yep, yep.

Phil: Well, the Virtual Console, in my opinion, should have been every friggin game they could have gotten licenses for.

Phil: You know, there should be a Nintendo Forever archive.

Phil: I mean, they would make so much money, and it would flip my perspective of Nintendo entirely.

Phil: It would make the Wii...

Phil: If they said tomorrow that the Wii U was going to have every Nintendo game ever made available, you know, for sale, not for free, I'd be right there.

Phil: I'd be like right on, you know?

Tom: And that's the issue with...

Tom: Just to go on a completely unrelated note, that is the issue with using this cloud, this proposed cloud service for the PSinstead of backwards compatibility.

Tom: I know they've basically implied that any game, every game is going to be available for it.

Tom: That's not going to happen.

Tom: That is...

Phil: No.

Tom: First of all, I doubt that it's even going to be in the full base table, but there's absolutely no way that there's even going to be the majority of their back catalogue available to play.

Phil: To be fair though, there were thousands of PlayStation games that...

Tom: Well, it's a lot better than the Virtual Console on the PSbut you're still missing so many important games.

Tom: I mean, there's lots of obvious games that still aren't there.

Phil: Yeah, and I'm actually mistaken.

Phil: What I was thinking of was the PlayStation compatibility for the PlayStation

Phil: The PlayStation and compatibility lists were almost one and the same.

Phil: You could almost play...

Phil: Like there was only about or games on the PlayStation that you couldn't play on the PlayStation but that was using hardware emulation.

Phil: You know, moving over to software emulation is a whole different ball game.

Phil: But if PlayStation is using the cloud for backward compatibility for PlayStation games, as they have indicated, that's not going to work.

Phil: I mean, that's not a substitute.

Phil: That's poor.

Phil: I mean, with all of these forms of media, I mean, when they brought out a Sony CD player, they didn't say, in the end, it will play all of your Sony cassettes, you know.

Phil: I mean, there is a point where you have to end legacy support.

Tom: But, but I don't know about that, because let's say not this generation, but looking into the future, there's no doubt that hardware-wise, consoles are becoming more and more like computers.

Tom: So I don't see why they need to change OS to the degree where you're going to cut out the vast majority of your backlog.

Tom: So let's say the PS

Tom: If the PSis, for all intents and purposes, a mid-range PC.

Phil: Right.

Phil: It's xarchitecture, right?

Phil: Moving from the cell to xis almost impossible for them to provide support.

Tom: No, no, no.

Tom: What I'm saying is, the PSthere's nothing to say, given that they're using mostly PC architecture, that you couldn't use PSgames on it without any problem, as long as they don't fuck around with the OS, right?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Absolutely.

Tom: Because the vast majority of issues with backwards compatibility on PC don't come from the hardware, but come from the software side of things.

Tom: And if they were to, at a later stage, open up the OS, as they did with the PSwith Linux, then % of the time, those things can be worked around.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Now, you're right.

Phil: Well, here's the thing, but just to talk about backward compatibility quickly, is that in the old days, backward compatibility was to increase sales of your next-gen console, because the argument was always from parents, is this thing going to play the games from your last thing?

Phil: Right?

Phil: However, now, the people have so much invested in their digital libraries that the and PlayStation have cultivated, people have no reason to want to move to the next level, because they want to keep all of their digital library, right?

Phil: So what you're actually doing is in the past, backward compatibility was a plus, because you'd say, and it can play all of your old shit, but now they want to wean you off your old shit as fast and as quickly as possible.

Phil: These consoles, the Wii U is suffering heavily, right?

Phil: But these new consoles for the PlayStation are going to suffer even more, because people have so much invested in their digital library that they've downloaded on the hard drive for that thing, they're going to be looking for reasons not to buy the next console.

Phil: And with cross-generational titles, where they're saying, hey, this is our newest shit, you can buy it on the or the gamers are going to be like, well, you know, I'll just stick with the for now.

Phil: You know, I don't want to spend this sort of money.

Phil: And after all, Netflix works fine on my current and I've got all these music and games and XBLA on it.

Phil: Anyway, that's my point.

Phil: It's just interesting to see, like, that backward compatibility has evolved from something that was a plus for the manufacturers to something that now they're like saying, we really can't include it, because otherwise people aren't going to buy their next-gen game.

Phil: So you had a final news story about Nintendo Direct before we move on to NPD.

Tom: And that is that Pikmin has actually got a release date for America, which is in August, I think.

Tom: It's not really in the notes here, but I think the exact date was August the th, I believe.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Something like that.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: So it may in fact actually exist.

Tom: And the other bit of Pikmin news is that there are going to be flying Pikmin in it.

Tom: And if you watch the Nintendo Direct video, you can in fact watch these flying Pikmin.

Tom: And they're cute.

Tom: There's not much more to say about them apart from that.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, Pikmin do you think this was a Wii game that's been up-resd?

Tom: Well, it looks like a Wii game to me so much.

Tom: I mean, the environments look really, really bad.

Tom: And they are so...

Tom: They're of such a lower quality compared to the characters, even though the characters are pretty simply designed.

Tom: They really stand out in the environments and look like they're on a different level.

Tom: The same for stuff like water effects.

Tom: But the environments and, like, the textures on the rocks and stuff, it looks like really, really bad at best.

Tom: First generation PSand graphics, right?

Tom: It just looks too bad to have been done from the ground up for the Wii U.

Tom: The other side of the coin, though, is possibly they're using that as a contrast so that the Pikmin stand out more easily in the environment so you can follow them in the heat of the action more easily.

Tom: But surely they could have thought of a better way to do that than making the environments look lower-res than crap.

Phil: Yeah, that's a good point.

Phil: So looking at Nintendo Direct, Link to the Past Yoshi's Island Bravely Default, Mario Party New Super Luigi U patch, Earthbound and Pikmin

Phil: What tickled your fancy?

Phil: What would get you to buy a DS or Wii U out of that?

Tom: Well, nothing.

Tom: All they've offered for that is what?

Tom: It was Luigi download and Earthbound, right?

Tom: That was all the Wii U news.

Tom: I assume they're going to be keeping back any major Wii U stuff for Ewouldn't you think so?

Phil: Yeah, that was the only Wii U content that was announced, and if they're holding back the EI would think that that is a mistaken strategy.

Phil: Regardless what they announce at Eit's going to be overshadowed by the and the next Xbox, and the PlayStation

Phil: And I think they need to hit as many people now before anything is known about the next Xbox and before anyone has really consolidated their opinion of the PlayStation

Phil: They had a system that's out right now, which is allegedly a next-gen system.

Phil: Now is when they need to be getting people to buy them before they start saving up for a PlayStation or the next Xbox.

Phil: The PlayStation no price has been announced for it yet.

Phil: The Xbox, nothing has been announced for it at all.

Phil: Right now, you can walk into any target, you know, in the United States or wherever, any GameStop, any EB Games, and buy a Wii U.

Phil: And that's what they should be saying.

Phil: They should be saying, the next generation is available to you right now.

Phil: Here's Pikmin, available now.

Phil: Go out into the stores, you know.

Phil: Earth, announcements about -year-old games coming to a virtual console is completely and entirely meaningless.

Phil: A patch for a game that you release at launch is pathetic.

Phil: I mean, they're basically, if the Wii U was a baby in a cradle, they're basically stabbing it in the face right now.

Phil: They need to get as many people to buy a Wii U before their competitors announce a price for their systems as possible.

Phil: Because come May, we're in fucking April right now, late April, and come May at Eas soon as people hear price points for those other two consoles which are going to kick Nintendo's ass in terms of hardware and third party support, people are going to start saving up their money for those systems when they come out in November.

Phil: And right now is Nintendo's last gasp to get people to buy their Wii U.

Phil: I'm not concerned about the DS.

Phil: The DS is going to be just fine, because it's going to be the only handheld gaming system, the only dedicated handheld gaming system.

Phil: So if they're holding off big news, like a real Zelda for Ethen they're idiots, right?

Phil: Even if they're not going to bring out these games now, they need to be saying that these games are coming, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So that people...

Phil: Super Mario Galaxy coming, you know, soon.

Phil: Buy your Wii U now.

Phil: I mean, they need to be doing something.

Tom: Here's the thing, though.

Tom: I mean, on all the Nintendo Directs, they've really focused on DS rather than Wii U.

Tom: The biggest thing they announced with the Wii U, right, was the Wii U itself.

Tom: But they didn't really go into details.

Tom: It was kind of like they're just doing it...

Tom: They just did it there because they had to.

Tom: And then they were going to bring the more major stuff later at E

Tom: So it was basically like a prelude, right?

Tom: So they come across as really treating Nintendo Direct as like their main focus is the DS, then they use Efor the console.

Tom: And I agree that seems like an incredibly stupid decision.

Tom: Unless, I have to say, though, unless it is Zelda.

Tom: If it is a Zelda and they knock the presentation out of the park, like they come out with something like in the vein of the realistic, in inverted commas, Zelda demo that they did a while back, that can compete with the PSon the Wii U.

Tom: If people see that, that can compete with it.

Tom: People will see that and think, okay, there's a fucking mature, realistic Zelda coming out.

Tom: I'm getting a Wii U.

Tom: They'll immediately forget.

Tom: A large number of people, certainly enough to justify such a decision, will forget about the PSand the announcements, right?

Phil: They need to announce it now.

Phil: It's too late to announce it at Ebecause they're not just competing with the PlayStation and Xbox at E

Phil: They're also competing with Activision's new game from Bungie.

Phil: I mean, potentially an Uncharted

Phil: Look, for the people for whom a realistic Zelda is going to matter, those people already own a Wii U, right?

Phil: To an extent.

Phil: So I'm kind of arguing against myself here, but the word on the streets is that the Wii U doesn't have any games.

Phil: And so that's why people aren't buying Wii U's.

Phil: So they need to show that, hey, Nintendo games are coming out for the Wii U.

Phil: Here's your next Mario Kart.

Phil: Here's your next Zelda.

Phil: Here's Yusuf Mario Galaxy

Phil: And abandon the casual strategy because everything they've done to this point has been aimed at casuals and it isn't working, including launching with a Yusuf Mario Brothers game.

Tom: But the thing is, if they do announce Zelda at, say, a Nintendo Direct, the thing is that's going to be a much smaller audience.

Tom: And even if it is a full announcement, it's going to garner less coverage in the press than if it was to be announced at E

Tom: And so if you're saying that the vast majority of people who are interested in Zelda already own a Wii U, right?

Tom: That's also going to be the vast majority of people that are going to be taking notice of an announcement at Nintendo Direct.

Tom: So the outliers who may not have a Wii U yet, but might be swayed by Zelda, are going to be more swayed if it is a huge, grandiose-style announcement at E

Phil: All right.

Phil: I have actually been swayed by your argument.

Phil: I agree with that, but Nintendo does have to do something.

Phil: I think their systems are in game stores now.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I mean, it's embarrassing that they're showing a flying Pikmin and just announcing a release date for it randomly.

Tom: It smacks of desperation at Nintendo Direct.

Phil: Not desperation perhaps.

Phil: Well, desperation and or cluelessness or whatever.

Phil: Clearly on the DS side, let's have a big picture look at it.

Phil: They've announced a major title, a sequel to one of the best games of all time.

Phil: Yoshi's Island was considered a great game.

Phil: They've announced a sequel to that, and they're showing true dedication to the hardcore by localizing and publishing a game that isn't going to sell well, Bravely Default.

Phil: So on a DS message type, Mario Party.

Phil: So they're showing first party support for it as well for Casuals.

Phil: Excellent.

Phil: On the You information, maybe they just should have shut up and not said anything, because at this point, it's just kind of depressing to see the kind of games that they're bringing out for it.

Phil: It just seems like...

Tom: You know, it would have been perfect if they had announced a new full D Zelda for the Wii U.

Tom: So you build up the hype for E

Tom: So everyone's looking forward to getting new info and a massive, much more footage of it at Eright?

Tom: So they give you all that, and then they also give you Zelda for the Wii U as well.

Phil: They just give it a mention and then give you more information later.

Phil: It would have shut up all the haters.

Tom: So let's move on to MPD quickly.

Phil: Yeah, indeed.

Phil: Let's go through MPD.

Phil: Starting at number was a Naruto game for the PS

Phil: Number was The Walking Dead because that entire episodic content came out as one game.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: No, this is not The Walking Dead.

Tom: This is The Walking Dead Survival Instinct.

Phil: Oh, you're right.

Phil: Oh, the terrible first person shooter.

Phil: Oh, God.

Phil: Oh, God.

Tom: Oh, God.

Phil: Oh.

Phil: Oh, that's terrible.

Phil: That's either result of just licensing, people walking in the store and not knowing anything about anything and going, Walking Dead, I like the comic book slash TV show, or this is just a complete misappropriation of all the GOTYs that the adventure game got last year, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Oh, I've heard about that.

Phil: That's pretty good.

Phil: Oh, God.

Phil: That's terrible.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Perhaps a mixture of both.

Phil: This is really bad for Telltale because this is going to poison the well for so many...

Phil: You know, when they continue on with the Walking Dead adventure game?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Number and went to sports games, NBA Kand MLB the show, a PlayStation Vita exclusive.

Phil: Number went to Luigi's Mansion.

Phil: Very notable.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Sold units.

Phil: Physical units, yeah.

Phil: Again, just you got to shake your head.

Phil: Black Ops came in at number

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: As always, got to be in the top

Phil: Why don't you round out the top ?

Tom: Number was God of War Ascension, which sold a very, very solid

Tom: I'd say they'd be pretty pleased with that.

Tom: Number was Gears of War Judgment, which once again sold pretty well indeed,

Tom: Number was Tomb Raider, which sold what must be a crushingly disappointing for Square Enix,

Tom: And number was Bioshock Infinite.

Tom: And is this...

Tom: these are combined sales, right?

Tom: Correct.

Tom: Bioshock Infinite sold which is very impressive.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: This is all US sales as well.

Phil: Because last week we talked about how Tomb Raider had sold X million copies, but that is shipped.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So that's what Square Enix sold to retailers.

Phil: So when they were expressing disappointment with Tomb Raider, they may have been expressing disappointment with the pass-through sales.

Phil: Because if they had shipped million copies to retailers and retailers only shifted copies of it, it means Square Enix is going to be losing a lot of money.

Phil: That would make more sense.

Tom: But in that article, they also said, this might have been a while ago, their prediction was million or something sold, whether that's the retailers or people, that is just a ridiculous figure, even if that's just what they expect retailers to make up.

Phil: If Square cut million copies of Tomb Raider and only units were moved, we will be able to buy these games for beer coasters for $in about four months, in four weeks.

Tom: And in two months, we can go and get it from a hole in the desert somewhere.

Phil: And this explains their panic, because that is crazy.

Phil: And again, they shipped million to retailers.

Phil: If pass-through is only K, and again, this is only North American sales, non-digital, they're fucked, because those retailers will be expecting Square to buy those back from them.

Phil: And then they'll be stuck with those copies.

Tom: With a lot of expensive coasters.

Phil: And Bioshock is essentially a million-copy seller with only about two weeks of sales.

Tom: Yep, that's pretty damn good.

Phil: I heard a lot of people saying that they thought that the God of War and Gears of War sales figures were disappointing.

Phil: Can you see that in any way?

Tom: No, they look very good to me.

Tom: I mean, God of War Ascension and Gears of War Judgment have both had significantly less hype than any other game in the series, right?

Tom: I mean, at this stage, people are getting pretty sick of them.

Tom: Those seem like good sales to me, and I don't think that either publisher or developer of them would be disappointed with those sales unless they are as stupid as Square Enix.

Tom: They would have had to have been expecting lesser sales than the series has previously seen.

Phil: The truth of it is revealed in your first statement, and that is these games received hardly any marketing support.

Phil: Publishers give marketing support to games they know will sell based on their market research.

Phil: These companies spend a lot of money, and they are not idiots.

Phil: They know what will sell and what won't.

Phil: Gears of War Judgment wasn't published, wasn't developed by the core Epic staff.

Phil: It was developed by People Can Fly.

Phil: God of War Ascension was developed by Sony Santa Monica, but apparently this was like Sony Santa Monica B team, because Sony Santa Monica A team is working on a PlayStation project right now.

Phil: And the other thing that shut God of War Ascension in the face was that it was early marketed as being a multiplayer game, which I thought it was exclusively multiplayer, but apparently it does have a robust single player mode as well.

Phil: But more to your point, people are just sick of these franchises.

Phil: This isn't, as I said in a thread earlier this week, this isn't a Nintendo thing.

Phil: This isn't just people being sick of New Super Mario Bros.

Phil: People are sick of old games.

Phil: And God of War for me, I was pretty much done with it at that point.

Phil: I had already played four other God of War games that were just like it, including the handhelds.

Tom: And just on that point, by the way, both you and GG are in fact correct, because he was referring simply to your average forum goer.

Tom: And if you're going to go and read NeoGaff, there is, without a shadow of doubt, there is backlash for the likes of Gears of War and God of War, right?

Tom: There is disproportionately far, far more venom aimed at Nintendo for doing this.

Phil: Well, and Call of Duty.

Phil: Oh, yeah, and Call of Duty, yeah.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, but what I objected to mostly with that exchange was basically, I'm not your average forum goer.

Phil: I'm trying to engage in a conversation here with you, and you just keep ignoring me and talking about what people are saying.

Tom: Yeah, okay, yeah.

Phil: Yeah, that was essentially my point.

Phil: Moving on to hardware...

Tom: I just want the attention is what you're saying.

Phil: Right, and we do want to thank our listeners for listening to The Game under.net podcast.

Tom: We can quickly do hardware if you want, by the way.

Tom: There's just time for it.

Phil: Let's do hardware.

Phil: is the only one we have solid numbers for.

Phil: It sold copies.

Tom: Yep, which is a drop of almost %.

Tom: Is that on last year or from last month, by the way?

Phil: From last year.

Phil: Yeah, the same time last year.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: But I'd still be happy with that if I were Microsoft.

Tom: Oh yeah, that's still pretty good.

Phil: And they're making profit on their hardware at this point.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: They sold

Phil: By comparison, PlayStation sold

Tom: Which is % on last year.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, I don't know why.

Tom: Because it's the God of War Ascension, obviously.

Phil: Or MLB The Show, the other PlayStation exclusive this month.

Phil: Wii U allegedly sold units.

Tom: Ouch.

Phil: Yep.

Tom: And the Wii which is up % last year.

Tom: So apparently people are rushing out to buy Wiis for some reason.

Phil: Apparently there's still people buying Wiis.

Phil: I mean I've heard it's because it's a good Netflix device.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: And they're cheap.

Phil: So that's pretty much it for MPDs.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: And also pretty much it for the podcast, I believe.

Phil: Yes, we do have to end on that note, but we do appreciate everyone listening in.

Phil: We were hoping to talk about the Sega Pluto, which was some photos surfaced of its hardware.

Phil: But I have just one thing to share about that, and that is this is essentially a Saturn Slim.

Phil: I'm sorry to have to disappoint everyone.

Phil: This is not a console that was coming out in between the Saturn and the Dreamcast.

Phil: It was basically a slimmed-down version of the Saturn, which had a built-in modem and had lower component cost for Sega.

Tom: See, my take on this is, given that two were built, is that this was never something that they even considered for launch, but simply could have been some of their prototyping and testing leading into having a permanent fixed modem in a console, right?

Tom: So they would have just been messing around with this idea in integrating it into Saturns with no intent of releasing it, just as part of their R&D for how they might have been doing this in the next console.

Phil: Right.

Phil: Well, it was also a removable component, so this could have been the Saturn Slam, and then they could have sold it with a modem option or a modem that you could buy additionally.

Phil: So with that, we'll bid adieu to our listeners.

Phil: We really do appreciate everyone who has downloaded the podcast.

Phil: It was really encouraging to see the level of support that we received on our launch show.

Phil: We do want to let you know that you can now subscribe to us on iTunes, and the easiest way to find us on iTunes is basically just go to gameunder.net and follow the links that we have in the top right hand corner.

Phil: Shows are also available for direct download or streaming at gameunder.net.

Phil: I'm Phil Fogg and Tom Towers, thank you for joining us this week.

Tom: Thank you for having me.

Phil: Thank you.

Game Under Episode 1

​Tom Towers and Phil Fogg move their act to a new stage.  This episode includes over an hour of discussion on Spec Ops: The Line (spoilers from 1:33:00 through 2:30:55) as well has hands-on impressions of Evoland, Zeno Clash, Serious Sam 3, Killzone, Bully and Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army.​

Stream Above or Download Directly Here (right-click then save as).​​

Also, please subscribe to our podcast using RSS by clicking here.​ or subscribe with iTunes here.

Download the EP featuring Sweet Billy Revolt here.​

​GAME IMPRESSIONS

3:31 Evoland impressions and talk about referencial humour and impersonation.

10:45 Zeno Clash and review processes at big websites.

27:15 Serious Sam 3 and how Phil would fix it.

40:45 Killzone 1 with some Yakuza talk.

51:00 Bully and soap opera talk.

1:05:45 Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army impressions.

FEATURE

1:17:25 Spec Ops: The Line in-depth discussion.

SPOILERS BEGIN AT 1:33:00 and end at 2:30:55

NEWS

2:30:55 GTA Tracks Now on Spotify and iTunes followed by discussion of favorite GTA songs.

2:36:40 Brain Training is Culturally Insensitive as are the Japanese.

2:39:23 Bioware Says Jade Empire Would Have Been Huge 360 Launch Game.

2:42:50 Oculus Rift and discussion of virtual reality.

2:46:12 PC Shipments Down and analysis.

2:51:15 Cancelled Mega Man FPS.

FEATURE 2

2:53:28 Square Enix Problems plus Bonus Material.

WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE VGPRESS.COM and LASERLEMMING.COM

3:00:50 Dvader's Backlog and his Gaming Malaise.

3:08:28 Discussion of the history of QTE's and Boss Battles from LaserLemming.com

3:23:08 Slave Billy Revolt adapted from an article at LaserLemming.com​

Transcript
Phil: Well, I received your ground rules earlier today for The Game Under Podcast, Tom, and let me just go over them here with you.

Phil: Number one was no editing out of racist or pedophilia jokes.

Phil: That was your number one.

Phil: Number two was you wanted a five-minute break every three minutes.

Tom: And that, bear in mind, that's come down from four minutes every two minutes.

Phil: Okay, I understand you're trying to meet me in the middle.

Phil: And then number three was you wanted long sections of static bows.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: A little background.

Phil: We're gonna skip four.

Phil: But number five I have a real problem with, which is no fake American accent.

Phil: Well, I don't even have a fake American accent.

Phil: I don't even have a real Australian accent.

Phil: Um, but, uh...

Tom: A fake Australian accent.

Phil: Look, look, mate.

Phil: I've received your grand rules.

Phil: I'm gonna draw a line in the sand here.

Phil: These are my grand rules moving forward.

Phil: Number one, no discussion of segues ever.

Tom: Can I just say that was quite a good segue from my grand rules to yours one?

Tom: To your grand rules.

Phil: Actually, you know what?

Phil: I gotta agree.

Phil: Also, um, you know, we've never talked about this before in the recording, so we'll just get out of the way before we start.

Phil: But my name is Phil.

Phil: Not Aspro, not Shane, nothing else.

Phil: I mean, my full name is Phileas, but my name is Phil Fogg and...

Tom: So your full name is Phileas and the Fogg is the name you've added on.

Tom: That's not your full name.

Phil: Fogg is my real last name.

Phil: Two Gs.

Tom: Yep.

Phil: Also, I don't want to overly explain why this is not the press room, the official podcast or the VG press.

Phil: In fact, I don't want to explain it at all.

Phil: All I know is this is The Game Under Podcast with the internet sensation Tom Towers and Phil Fogg.

Tom: I don't actually know why it is not the press room podcast, so he couldn't explain it if he wanted to.

Phil: But this is The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: And I hear we have a website.

Phil: Also, number four, just for today, no Wii U discussion.

Phil: I think this is something that is better left unspoken about for a few more months.

Tom: Neither of us have a Wii U anyway.

Phil: Yeah, what do we know?

Phil: Let's not talk about it.

Phil: Finally, I want a ball of red M&Ms in the green room before every show.

Tom: Which brings me back to rule four from my list, and that is that the M&Ms in the green room, as requested by Astro, must in fact be eaten by me and only me.

Phil: All right, you ready to do this podcast?

Tom: Yes, I am.

Phil: All right.

Tom: I thought we already were.

Phil: Well, here's the introduction.

Phil: Are you going to do the introduction or shall I?

Tom: I will.

Tom: I will.

Tom: Welcome to the first ever episode of The Game Under Podcast.

Tom: And today we'll be talking in depth about Spec Ops The Line, Square Enix's sales expectations as well as our regular features, which we won't list because they're simply too numerous.

Tom: I am Tom Towers and I'm joined by the wonderful Phil Fogg.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: Phil Fogg.

Phil: We're not going to go into how I bought a microwave today that didn't work.

Phil: All my new headset, the Turtle Beach Air Force PLA, because we have such a big show.

Phil: I figured we'd just go straight into our video game impressions and what we've been playing.

Phil: I'm going to go with the most relevant game I've been playing.

Phil: I'm not really known for playing relevant games, but I got this game on Steam last weekend for like $

Phil: It was on sale.

Phil: It's called Evoland.

Phil: You heard this one?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Phil: So, Evoland is obviously an enneagram of...

Phil: Well, actually, it's not an enneagram at all.

Phil: But it's supposed to...

Phil: You know, you're supposed to look at the word and go, oh, Evolve, right?

Phil: And basically what this is, it's a meta game.

Tom: I think you'll find that when we were discussing this beforehand, I actually wrote Evoland as Evolve on Gchat.

Phil: As did I.

Phil: As did I.

Phil: And this is a meta kind of game.

Phil: Well, it is a meta game.

Phil: And it's much like Half Minute Hero or D...

Phil: What was that D one for the...

Phil: It was a PlayStation exclusive.

Tom: D Dot Game Heroes.

Phil: D Game Hero.

Phil: Half Minute Hero.

Phil: This is very much in the same vein in that it references Zelda very much and it also references Final Fantasy games.

Phil: And basically where the evolution comes into or the gimmick, if you will, is that the game starts out black and white and very pixelated.

Phil: And you can only move to the right.

Phil: So you move to the right until you find a chest, you open it up and then you unlock left.

Phil: And then you can move to the left.

Phil: And then you find a chest and then that unlocks up.

Phil: And then you can move up and so on and so forth.

Phil: And then eventually you find a chest that evolves you into -bit graphics and then -bit graphics, -bit graphics, DS graphics into the future.

Phil: So...

Tom: It obviously ends up looking better than Crysis

Phil: With all the settings on, even the lowest settings.

Phil: I mean, it's a very enjoyable game.

Phil: If you were to...

Phil: I mean, it mimics the source material like Zelda and Final Fantasy precisely.

Phil: And some people say that, you know, okay, well, it's just mimicking them.

Phil: That doesn't mean that they are them.

Phil: That doesn't mean this is a Final Fantasy game or a Zelda game.

Phil: But as far as I'm concerned, I mean, when you hear a good mimic or a good impersonator, the reason why...

Phil: I mean, why do people listen to celebrity impersonators, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Why do people listen to celebrity impersonators?

Tom: One, I would say, just to interrupt you there completely.

Tom: One, simply, most of them are making fun of them.

Tom: So, but we'll ignore that for the minute.

Tom: And the second one is, being a good mimic requires a great deal of skill.

Phil: Yes, it does.

Phil: Like, what's that guy's name?

Phil: Frank, what's his face, you know?

Tom: I don't know.

Phil: Well, he's an American guy, but...

Phil: Frank Catalanotto, right?

Phil: I think the point of humor in references, whether it be with a celebrity impersonator or a mimic, or in video games such as these, or, you know, Retro City Rampage, which I also played, but we're not specifically going to talk about this week.

Phil: It goes back to that old...

Tom: You've got to start on a platforming boss, by the way.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: But it all goes back to that Simpsons reference where everyone's laughing at a joke around Homer, and then Homer says, oh, joke, I get jokes, right?

Phil: And I think that's what impersonation humor is about.

Phil: It's basically like, oh, I get it.

Phil: That's a reference to something I know about.

Phil: See?

Phil: And it's not necessarily humorous.

Phil: It's just basically a reference.

Phil: And I don't know why that's amusing to people, except when you stereotype it or turn it up a notch.

Phil: And then you go, oh, yeah, Nixon did kind of sound like that.

Phil: That's funny, you know?

Phil: So basically where a reference, which is exemplified or amplified rather, brings new vision or new truth to the source material.

Phil: I think that's the value that it has.

Phil: So people will use words like derivative or clone or whatever, but I think games like Half Minute Hero and D Dot Heroes and Evoland, what they're actually doing is getting into why, a deeper understanding of why the source material was good.

Phil: And kind of like, you know, I'll read a review and then I'll summarize it in bullet point form.

Phil: Well, the bullet point form is actually in some ways better than the review because it's getting to the essence in a much shorter form than the source material.

Tom: That's simply because you're not Tom Towers.

Phil: Well, that's right.

Phil: I mean, if I could write long form articles like yourself, I would do so.

Phil: But I mean, I guess that's why people read things like Reader's Digest versions of large novels or the Cliffnote versions or, you know, the Dummies books.

Phil: But back to the game, I find it thoroughly enjoyable for the reasons that I've said.

Phil: It mimics the game's Final Fantasy and Zelda.

Phil: If you're familiar with the source material, you'll find it a joy.

Phil: It's short, it's fast moving.

Phil: It's a total kick to see the aesthetics evolve as you unlock things.

Phil: And it's not laugh out loud funny.

Phil: It's more like a low chuckle.

Phil: You know, when you unload, when you unlock better music or better graphics, it's kind of like, you know, but the thing is it drips it out at such a pace that you're never really bored or distracted.

Phil: So that's really it for Evoland.

Tom: I got a question about it.

Phil: Yeah, I thoroughly recommend it.

Phil: If you can find it for $like I did, just pick it up.

Phil: If you like Zelda or Final Fantasy or video game history, pick it up.

Phil: It's a fun game.

Tom: That does sound pretty good.

Tom: But my question is, so when these things evolve, and let's say specifically the graphics, how exactly does it happen?

Tom: Like, does it transfer to it slowly or...?

Phil: And then the screen will change from -bit to -bit.

Phil: And so a tree that before may have looked like an old-fashioned sprite will now be more fully realized.

Phil: And as you get deeper into the game, it will become D and things like that.

Phil: It's a really beautiful thing.

Phil: And you can basically check it out on YouTube and stuff like that to get the essence of it.

Phil: GameSpot, there's a good trailer for it.

Phil: Actually, the trailer is the best representation of what the game is about.

Tom: GameSpot didn't like it.

Tom: They gave it a

Phil: Yeah, that was Carolyn Pettit, though.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Once again, getting in there with a lower score.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Look at me!

Tom: Look at me!

Phil: Actually, I'm not going to make the three jokes that immediately came to mind, so let's just move on.

Phil: Do you want me to talk about my next game?

Tom: How about I move on to something?

Phil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom: And we'll stick with the Indies, because I recently played through Xeno Clash, which is a first-person fighting game.

Tom: Are you all familiar with it?

Phil: Well, when you say first-person fighting game...

Phil: As in a beat-em-up?

Phil: Is it like Breakdown?

Phil: You know, that Namco game?

Phil: Where you're, like, in the first-person view and your fists are, you know, coming into the screen?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: I haven't played Breakdown, though, so I can't comment on the gameplay, but the gameplay is basically a slightly parred-down version of a proper beat-em-up in the vein of, say, Tekken or Street Fighter.

Tom: So there's a big focus on combos, blocking and all the sort of stuff you'd expect.

Tom: And it's actually really well done.

Tom: At first, when you start playing, it's really quite disorienting.

Tom: Oh, and another cool thing about it is, before each battle, it has, you know, lots of old D beat-ems-up before the battle.

Tom: They had a screen where they basically had the people involved in the battle, a picture of them stuck on the screen facing each other ready to fight, right?

Phil: Yep, yep.

Phil: They do that in Retro City Rampage pretty good.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: They basically do that here.

Tom: So you always, though not always, but most of the time know what you're coming up against and so the problem is though, while all the combos and whatnot are well designed and in theory you've got to use blocking or you're going to get your arse handed to you, right?

Tom: The problem is heavy attacks are completely overpowered.

Tom: So you can go into almost any battle and once you can have figured out how to time heavy attacks, you can basically just spam them and the enemies have got absolutely no chance against you.

Tom: This only does not apply though when you're in a battle with a lot of people because when you're in a battle with a lot of people, there will be people using ranged weapons as well.

Tom: So you've got to then consider who to attack first.

Tom: So I want to leave myself open to the weaker but still dangerous ranged attacks while taking out a Malega who's going to do more damage to me but I could possibly run away from or do I want to go and kill the ranged guy first.

Tom: So that kind of saves it from being a real ball where you're just spamming ranged attacks.

Tom: But a lot of the time it does pretty much feel like you're completely overpowered.

Phil: Okay, well again we're talking about Zeno Clash.

Phil: This is Zeno with a Z or Z, right?

Phil: Z-E-N-O Clash.

Phil: And this is developed by a Chilean team.

Tom: Correct.

Phil: Which I don't think I've ever heard of a video game coming out of Chile before.

Phil: Are you playing the PC version or the version?

Phil: The PC version.

Phil: Okay, so how do the combos work on...

Phil: Well, before we get on to the combos, you say like when I'm playing Sleeping Dogs or Yakuza or whatever, right?

Phil: And you're involved in a rumble, right?

Phil: It's a typical beat-em-up type situation.

Phil: You're going to have guys with a baseball bat or a knife, right?

Phil: And then you're going to have little edgelings or whatever you want to call them, that are fodder.

Phil: So like ordinarily, I will go after the guys with the weapons first to get them out of the way while they still have plenty of health and then go after the fledglings, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So is that what you're doing in Xenoclash?

Phil: Is that what you were just describing?

Tom: No, because the people with ranged weapons are still fully fledged normal combatants.

Tom: And on top of that, if you go and attack them, which is another element to the strategy, if you go and attack them, you can knock the weapon out of their hands.

Tom: So what you can do is you concentrate on killing the people that are going to be focusing mainly on melee attacks while also watching these weapon people out of the corner of your eye and going over and knocking the weapons out of their hands.

Tom: But there are in fact fodder enemies.

Tom: The enemies are describing what people are.

Tom: But also going around the levels mainly as kind of interludes between the bigger battles.

Tom: You do come across animals to shoot.

Tom: And the less said about the shooting mechanics, the better.

Tom: It's really lightweight and just feels kind of pointless.

Phil: Well, what are you actually shooting?

Phil: What weapon do you have?

Tom: Well, there's stuff like crossbows, shotguns and puffer fish pistols.

Phil: Miniguns?

Tom: No miniguns.

Phil: Puffer fish pistols?

Phil: They shoot puffer fish?

Tom: They're puffer fish, presumably dead puffer fish, faceted into the shape of a pistol that shoot pallets out of their mouth.

Phil: This is lame.

Phil: Lame.

Phil: I mean, like how many years ago did Armed and Dangerous come out with a shark gun?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know, the rocket launcher that shoots sharks.

Phil: And they're just using the puffer fish?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Well, on the keyboard, though, how do you do combos on a PC game in a fighting game?

Tom: So, left mouse button is basically your normal or weaker attacks.

Phil: Left is weak.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And right is strong.

Tom: So, that might sound quite simple.

Tom: But then, of course, you've got the most basic way to do a combo, which is multiple taps of the one button.

Tom: But it does go deeper than that because coming into it is you can then combine, say, multiple attacks within a block attack, which performs a different attack to then if you were just to tap left mouse button.

Tom: And also, you can combine block attacks, multiple tap attacks and dodge attacks.

Tom: So, block, sorry, so space bar acts as your block button.

Tom: And also, if you apply movement at the same time as blocking, then you do a dodge.

Tom: So, they may actually make it work really well on keyboard.

Tom: Except for one mechanic, which is the lock-on, which is just absolutely horrendous.

Tom: And I'm not sure if I was accidentally pressing E, which performs lock-on, which I'm % sure I wasn't, but it randomly locks on to enemies, which then completely stuffs up the combo you were attempting to perform.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Wow.

Tom: So, at the base, it's a really good system, but it's not executed all that well.

Tom: The other thing about it, which is quite quick, I'd just like to say the...

Tom: it looks very much like a...

Tom: let's say a documentary version of Morrowind.

Tom: So it's not populated by actors and actresses.

Tom: The characters involved have gotten moles and acne and all sorts of good stuff that you'd expect to find on actual people.

Phil: So they don't have a clean faces mod for this game yet?

Tom: No.

Phil: No, it's a shame.

Tom: And I assume it was influenced by Morrowind because it just looks so much like a dirty version of Morrowind.

Tom: And it was originally an RPG, so perhaps it was.

Tom: Wait, wait, wait.

Phil: This game, ZenoKled, for the PC and it was an RPG before it was...

Tom: It was originally an RPG called Zerodnik or something, which is the name of the world it is set in.

Tom: And the sequel, which is coming out next month in May, has apparently RPG elements to it.

Phil: Maybe they should call up Kurt Schilling to put this whole thing together for them, you know?

Tom: Well, yeah.

Tom: Well, as I was saying, it looks great.

Phil: It just sounds like...

Phil: Alright, well, yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: It sounds like what, sorry?

Phil: It just sounds like a complete cluster, because they turned an RPG into like, oh, our fighting...

Phil: Our fighting engineer is pretty good.

Phil: Let's just make it a brawler.

Tom: Well, it works quite well.

Phil: And after we've built up the rich world of Xenoclash, that's when we'll come back and make the RPG of our dreams.

Tom: That's right.

Phil: The only thing they could do to top this would be to make it an MMO that requires a monthly subscription.

Tom: That'll be Xenoclash

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So the last thing about it, though, is...

Tom: which is the biggest load of crap.

Tom: And I'm going to go into spoilers here.

Tom: You can add a spoiler warning here.

Tom: Because no one really cares.

Tom: So there's no point in...

Phil: No one's going to play.

Tom: The story, which is quite interesting and reasonably well done overall, is basically, you're the child of a seemingly hermaphrodite bird creature.

Tom: And it starts off with you killing it.

Tom: And then, from that point on, slowly, through exposition, explains why you killed it.

Tom: And this bird creature basically was, first of all, not a hermaphrodite.

Tom: It's a male, so it's been going around kidnapping babies of people and raising them as its own.

Phil: You know, that's not really unreasonable because most god mythos is, you know, god is without gender.

Phil: And if god is without gender, then it can...

Tom: A huge amount of mythos relate to gods as well.

Phil: Keep going.

Tom: So anyway, so, then at some stage through the story, you meet this Frankenstein, lycra wearing god type person who's all knowing.

Tom: And I just cannot understand why they're even there because they make absolutely no sense within the context of the story.

Tom: They go along, spouting all this philosophical bullshit and then at the end, which could have been a really good end, basically, you find out Father Mother isn't dead.

Phil: Father Mother.

Tom: That's the name of her Maphrodite parent.

Tom: And so you've got to fight them again.

Tom: After defeating them, the question is, are you going to kill them or reveal their secret to their children that they're all adopted slash kidnapped?

Tom: And so the main character decides, no, I'm not going to, which is perfectly fitting with the character.

Tom: Then this all-knowing asshole says, oh, wait a minute, fuck you, I don't care what you want to do.

Tom: By the way, you're not the real children of this person who kidnapped you all.

Tom: The end.

Tom: It's just part of stupidity.

Tom: I just cannot comprehend it.

Tom: The only possible explanation is, they kind of go on about the broader world that is involved in the game, maybe just setting it up for the sequel and pointing out, yes, this was meant to be a broader RPG.

Tom: Yeah, you're just stunned.

Phil: I am stunned.

Phil: I don't know if it's Frankenstein, Frankenstein.

Phil: I don't know why you even played this game to completion.

Phil: You've got so many other games to play.

Phil: I mean, there had to be something compelling pushing you forward.

Tom: I actually did enjoy it a great deal, I have to say.

Tom: Because while the combat is really impossible to describe as sounding like it's going to be good, but when you actually play it and get used to it, it is an enjoyable system, albeit a flawed one.

Tom: And personally, I enjoyed the art style and the story up until that point.

Phil: Yeah, this is basically using Valve's Source engine.

Phil: And I saw some of the images.

Phil: They're most distasteful and like the confusing story, I think this has to do with something about the Chilean culture.

Phil: What is distasteful about it?

Phil: Something not translating.

Phil: Well, the detail...

Tom: You don't like the anuses.

Phil: The detail, the attention to detail in regard to rectums...

Tom: Well, first of all, I'd just like to point out this.

Tom: Presumably it is not in fact a rectum because all the creatures in the vault only appear to have one waste plate of gold.

Tom: So it's got to be some sort of descent in the vein of chicken anatomy.

Phil: No.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: It doesn't...

Phil: I don't need that in my video games.

Phil: Maybe in Chile they do.

Phil: Chicken vent?

Tom: You working on farms should surely be well-versed in the anatomy of animals.

Phil: I don't have...

Phil: Oh, I am.

Phil: I am.

Phil: But I don't have any chickens.

Phil: I don't know anything about chickens.

Tom: Well, don't like many birds have one hole for waste and various other purposes.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Birds only have one hole for waste, which is...

Phil: Oh, I'm not going to go into this.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Are we done with Xenoclast?

Tom: Yes, I think we are.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: And I might add, you played it to completion.

Phil: Why did you not write a review for laserlemon.com?

Tom: Well, it was just a random game I was playing, so...

Phil: Okay.

Tom: However, you'll be pleased to know that if I can get a review copy of Xenoclast I will in fact be writing a review.

Phil: Did you hear that, Ace Team?

Phil: You know...

Tom: Listen, Ace Team, I even defended the game from my co-host.

Phil: I think he gave it a pretty favorable review there.

Phil: So send them an email, carry up a free copy of their RPG.

Phil: I was listening to GameSpot's podcast the other day and they were talking about why they didn't review Hyper Neptunia, right?

Phil: And they said basically it comes down to this.

Phil: This is GameSpot, which is...

Phil: I have to assume still the number video game website in the world, right?

Tom: You'd assume so.

Tom: Even if it might not look like it.

Phil: I'm sure there's a bigger one in Portuguese in Brazil.

Phil: This is what the reviews editor said.

Phil: He said that we don't have enough staff to review the games, so we would have given this to a freelancer, right?

Phil: The review of Hyper Neptunia, which we talked about in previous episodes of the Press Room podcast, available at thebgpress.com.

Phil: And he said we would have given that to a freelancer because it's the kind of game we'd give to a freelancer, which means a kind of game that none of us would be able to appreciate, right?

Phil: But he said it's too long of a game, and by the time a freelancer finishes the game, because they have the policy that you've got to finish the game before you can review it, it would no longer be relevant, and mostly because anyone who's going to buy Hyper Neptunia would have already bought the game prior to us coming out with our late review of the game.

Tom: I have a small question about that.

Tom: First of all, when would they have ever considered Hyper Dimension Neptunia relevant?

Phil: When would they consider relevant?

Tom: In terms of their hits, I mean, it's a very niche game.

Phil: Well, that's what they're saying, and they mention that as well, frankly.

Phil: They said that, you know, in regard to the amount of traffic that it will generate, I mean, that's what they're talking about.

Phil: I mean, if you come out with a review for, you know, Metal Gear Solid or Metal Gear Solid ..

Phil: Metal Gear Solid

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Five weeks after it's come out, people will still read it because it's like, oh, okay, well, what did they have to say about the game?

Phil: I just thought it was a sad indictment in terms of that website's number of staff and their resources that they're having to draw such fine lines as to what they review and what they don't review.

Phil: I mean, there was a time where they reviewed every game that came out.

Phil: Such was their resources.

Tom: Can I say, was this in terms of the sequel to all the original?

Phil: Well, it was just, it was about the most recent game.

Phil: But it was talking about, it doesn't really matter.

Phil: It was talking about the franchise as a whole.

Tom: Well, it does matter because as far as I'm aware, the first one was a lot longer than the second because that really sounds like a pretty huge cop out.

Tom: I mean, the second, you could easily, especially if you're playing it simply as a reviewer, you could knock that over in well under hours, no doubt.

Phil: Well, that's an even bigger problem is that they didn't even take the time to, like the reviews edited, didn't even take the time to see how long the game was.

Phil: I mean, they could have asked Atlas.

Phil: And Atlas would have said, you know, this is the length of the game or whatever.

Phil: So, well, one game that was equally shunned by the reviewing community was Serious Sam when it was released.

Phil: Predominantly, I guess, because it was a PC exclusive for a great deal of time.

Phil: Now, I know that...

Tom: Has it been forwarded to consoles?

Phil: I believe so.

Phil: You can check that out.

Phil: Now, I know that you played it while you looked that up because you gifted this to me.

Phil: And I appreciate it.

Tom: It has a downloadable title, I think.

Phil: And it wasn't a...

Phil: I'm playing the PC version, obviously, on Steam.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And, yeah, it was released as a downloadable.

Phil: That's right.

Phil: And I did not play the first one, for whatever reason.

Phil: I got the second one for $for the original Xbox.

Phil: And I beat it last year.

Phil: And it was not a good game.

Phil: What was wrong with it?

Phil: Well, it was basically hold down the trigger the entire time and run backwards, shooting your enemies.

Phil: Now, I played it to its completion.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And like GoldenEye, it had a ridiculous platforming level at the very end.

Phil: It was a platforming level, in fact, that was in the sky.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So it was like the worst possible thing.

Phil: First-person games should never have platforming levels.

Phil: And I've been rebuked and told, well, Mirror's Edge, well, of course Mirror's Edge is the exception.

Phil: Which I've never played, don't give a shit about.

Phil: So, but that was only the final level.

Phil: That's what made it actually worse is because at the very end, they introduced all of these new elements.

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: Which basically just cut to a very minor spoiler in Serious Sam

Phil: The very final boss, they introduced a jet pack, for Christ's sake.

Phil: Which is awesome.

Phil: But just to finish up my mini summary of Serious Sam it was just a boring game.

Phil: Basically, you just pull the trigger and kill everything that comes at you.

Phil: Serious Sam I never would have bought on the basis of my experience with Serious Sam

Phil: So I'm glad that you gave it to me, because it's a wonderful game.

Phil: I would give it probably a out of up from an because it provides the kind of Twitch gaming that hasn't been seen since Doom

Phil: This is Doom HD.

Phil: Make no mistake about it.

Phil: This is about throwing a bunch of ridiculous enemies, so enemies that have no heads, enemies that have bombs as hands, that scream as they come towards you.

Tom: And also have no head.

Phil: Arachnid creatures that have miniguns as hands.

Tom: Naked flying women?

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yes, very bushy naked flying women.

Phil: And again, this might be a cultural thing.

Phil: I know Serious Sam is made somewhere in Eastern Europe.

Phil: Eastern Europe, they probably call it.

Phil: They actually probably don't even call it that.

Phil: That's probably an insult.

Phil: But you know, one of those Slavic lands.

Tom: Even the Czech Republic to be exact.

Phil: I think I'm digging a hole deep here.

Phil: I don't know, it's probably politically...

Tom: The title was...

Tom: I'm sorry.

Tom: The location is reviewed in title, Crotea in Croatia, of course.

Tom: Oh, of course.

Phil: Yes, the Croats.

Phil: And that's probably racist too.

Phil: I don't even know what I'm saying.

Phil: The Croats.

Phil: Look, this game, Serious Sam if you have a PC, you have to play it, if you like Doom, if you like the original Doom, which is basically see the enemy, shoot the enemy.

Phil: The AI is smarter than the days of Doom, of course.

Phil: The graphics are beautiful.

Phil: Much better than any of the current consoles could provide.

Phil: Those particle effects.

Phil: It's a great game.

Phil: The audio on this game is amazing.

Phil: The music is neither here nor there.

Phil: It doesn't detract.

Phil: It certainly doesn't get as bad as you're like, what am I listening to?

Phil: I know Game Informer particularly liked the heavy metal aspects of it.

Phil: I didn't find any of the music particularly heavy metal.

Phil: So I was expecting a lot of running backward and shooting forward, which is what you get in this game.

Phil: There's lots of strafing, lots of running backwards, lots of shooting forwards, lots of crazy enemies, lots of large arenas full of literally hundreds of enemies running at you.

Phil: Just gore beyond belief.

Phil: Wonderful weapons.

Phil: It's great to have a shooter where guns are slowly given to you over the course of the game, just like in the old days where you start out with a pea shooter and you work your way up to things even more extreme than rocket launches.

Phil: It is a hard game.

Phil: Also, even on normal, this is a very difficult game.

Phil: You might disregard or you might disagree, but I found it difficult in reading up the reviews of this because I don't intend to review it myself.

Phil: Most people said this was a pretty difficult game.

Tom: Yep, I'd agree.

Tom: I can't remember if I played on hard or normal.

Tom: I think hard, but not % sure, but it definitely felt like whatever the difficulty should have been as opposed to as is often the case where it feels like the lower level difficulty than it actually is.

Phil: Right, right, right.

Tom: Which qualifies as a hard game these days.

Phil: Right, and then you've got to fiddle around until you find the difficulty that's right for you, right?

Tom: I think the difficulty levels are so well done.

Tom: You can basically pick however you want to play the game and still enjoy it.

Tom: So if you wanted to just go completely crazy on easy and just mow through everything, it would still be probably quite an enjoyable experience.

Phil: Well, I must admit, for a couple levels there, I did dip down to easy, and it was just as enjoyable.

Phil: It just meant less repetition.

Phil: And that's one of the doom elements that is in this game.

Phil: One of the great things about doom, which I've talked about in prior podcasts, is the repetition, right?

Phil: Okay, I'm coming into this room.

Phil: I know where all the enemies are going to be.

Phil: How am I going to do it this time as opposed to last time?

Phil: And then, you know, you've done something wrong four times in a row and you slap yourself and you're like, okay, idiot, let's try something different.

Phil: And that may or may not work.

Phil: Or you might leave it and then come back the next day and it works the first time.

Phil: My only problem with this game, which probably would detract from that nine, now that I think about it, maybe get it down to even an eight, there's basically two settings in this game.

Phil: The first is the beautiful and sublime outdoor Egypt Middle East setting, which is wonderful.

Phil: And the second is basically the bad side of Doom.

Phil: Well, actually there are no bad sides of Doom, but basically a corridor shooter.

Phil: And they put you into these tombs from time to time where you have to solve puzzles of a very rudimentary basis.

Phil: The most difficult thing about the puzzles is actually your orientation or seeing where you are because it's so dark.

Phil: And they really drag down the game.

Phil: I got bogged down three, four different levels.

Phil: And they throw these at you regularly.

Phil: I can see why they saw the need to change it up from the regular.

Phil: But seriously, they had those jet pack physics in the game.

Phil: I would have preferred if they needed a change up to throw in some air-based missions.

Phil: Maybe two or three throughout the game would have been enough because the open world or the open levels, the on-ground levels, the non-underground levels, were so enjoyable that you didn't really need a break from them.

Phil: Maybe two or three of those jet pack missions just would have pushed this game over the edge.

Phil: As it is, it just bogged it down terribly.

Phil: I've got to think that it was someone at Crow Team who was high up enough that people didn't question or challenge because anyone playing this game would just get to those levels and go, what?

Phil: There's no map.

Phil: I mean, I don't need a map necessarily in most games.

Phil: There's no radar.

Phil: What is useful is if you're playing multiplayer, they will at least put up an indicator as to where the other partner is and how far away they are.

Phil: And maybe what they could have done if this was...

Phil: Maybe what they could have done is if you've been walking around aimlessly in a level for minutes, maybe they put up the option and said, would you like nav support?

Phil: Or even have the character come through your headset who's talking to you throughout the whole game and say, hey, we've just opened up nav support for this level, for where you are, would you like us to help you out?

Phil: Yes, no.

Phil: So if you still want to flail around in the dark and do it yourself, you're fine.

Phil: But otherwise, they'd put up basically a marker until you get to the next point and then take it away.

Phil: The voice could come in and say, oh, we're getting interference from a sandstorm.

Phil: Sorry, nav support is dropping out now.

Phil: And then you try again and if you get lost for another minutes, they can say, hey, we're back up.

Phil: I think something small like that really would have pushed this game to the next level.

Phil: But all in all, thoroughly recommendable if you have a PC.

Phil: It's just a brilliant game, particularly if you have a great friend who can give it to you for free.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: There's just two things I'd say about the pyramid things.

Tom: There's literally two moments that I can remember that were at all enjoyable.

Tom: And that was when you first went into one of them.

Tom: It was quite a good contrast.

Tom: Now, the first one, as far as I can remember, didn't have too much of a confusing layout.

Tom: You can correct me on that if I'm wrong as you played it more recently than me.

Phil: No, you are correct.

Phil: It was the second level.

Phil: So they take you out of basically an urban Middle East setting.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And then in the second level, they drop you into a semi-open world dungeon.

Phil: So basically, it's a maze, but it's a multi-story building through which sunlight can't appear from time to time.

Phil: So it doesn't feel as claustrophobic as the later levels.

Phil: It's more like a large castle, if you will.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: So what I was thinking was, and that wasn't the part that I was referring to exactly, but I was actually about to go on to that part, which was why not in fact, instead of most of the pyramid areas, include indoor areas more in the vein of that, if they wanted a more easy and simple way to change up the pace?

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Right.

Phil: Or even go the urban route, since the Middle East is such a hot region these days, is have a building, you know, a -story building from the s kind of thing.

Phil: You know what I'm saying?

Phil: And not just have it be, you know, I can see where they may be trying to set it up as a timeless type thing.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, the thing about that is, I mean, you get to see the pyramids and lots of Egyptian statues and whatnot anyway, so there's not really any need to force you into these levels.

Tom: You still get that anyway.

Tom: Now, the one thing I would like to say is there was one moment which was just absolutely hilarious in one of the latter pyramids.

Tom: I can't remember which it was exactly, but you end up in this giant room and you can hear millions of enemies around you.

Tom: And when you get to a certain point, it triggers them all sprinting towards you, like literally hundreds of them, more in a confined space than you ever come across.

Tom: And that is such an awesome moment because once you realize what the hell is happening and you get slaughtered by this massive wave of enemies, there's huge, unlimited amounts of Ceverywhere.

Tom: So you then realize, oh, wait a minute, I've got to literally cover the entire section with C

Tom: So they trigger the enemies and it's this absolutely humongous explosion and hundreds of enemies dying all at once, which is just absolutely hilariously awesome.

Phil: Yeah, that is also what harkened back to the very best levels of Doom.

Phil: And when it comes back to Doom, beyond the visceral nature of it, if you will, it was the levels.

Phil: It was the levels that made that game.

Phil: The very clever levels where they were very limited.

Phil: And when I got to that level where we were using the Cto blow up walls or blow up enemies or whatever, it was great.

Phil: Probably enough on Serious Sam

Tom: Definitely.

Phil: You've been playing another pretty mainstream type of game.

Tom: Yes, and it's also a game with exceptional sound design, and that is Killzone, the original Killzone for the PS

Tom: And just a couple of small points on this.

Tom: I won't go into the gameplay too much because the level design is just so incredibly bland.

Phil: Oh, no, no, no, please do.

Phil: I mean, let's talk about the gameplay for a few minutes here.

Tom: Yeah, well, it's the opposite of Serious Sam.

Tom: It's incredibly slow-paced.

Tom: It's basically fatagic.

Tom: What happens is you walk from firefight to firefight, and the vast majority of these firefights consists of you simply finding a thing to sort of hide about or stay near the entrance of the firefight so when you get low on health you can run out, crouch in the corner and heal yourself, while the AI, which is generally completely passive, stands around shouting about you.

Tom: Then you carefully sneak out and shoot them in the face, just stand out in the open, shooting them for five or so seconds until they're dead.

Tom: It's still enjoyable, and I will say this, they actually do kind of mix it up a little by introducing different characters throughout the campaign that have different skills.

Tom: So, for example, I just got up to a character that has night vision and a submachine gun, which is very good for headshots.

Tom: So they do change it up, but at its core it's very, very, very bland gameplay.

Tom: But The Bells and the Whistles, some of them anyway, are exceptional.

Tom: It actually, it's one of the few PSgames that looks better in to than it does in to

Phil: I can tell you from personal experience that is the case.

Tom: The trouble is that half the time...

Phil: The frame rate is terrible though.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: You get huge knock to the frame rate in to and the frame rate is terrible on to anyway.

Phil: Yes it is.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: But, and on top of that, the graphics, okay, some parts look absolutely great.

Tom: The character models, when the textures on them actually load, look like really, really bad slash PSearly character models, right?

Phil: Yeah, they're chunky.

Tom: They look sculpted.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: They look really good.

Tom: That's when the textures load, and % of the time they don't.

Tom: And the draw distance, you can't even say the draw distance is atrocious.

Tom: Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not, and textures pop in and out.

Tom: It's just an incredible mess.

Tom: But the sound design is absolutely exceptional.

Tom: Even on my crap-dying, literally dying television speakers, I've still got a good sense of where enemies are and all that sort of thing.

Tom: I was really surprised by it when coming back to it.

Phil: Because of PlayStation ?

Tom: Yeah, I haven't played a PSgame that has attempted to surround sound as well as this.

Tom: Well, at least attempted to surround sound just onto channels anywhere near as well as this.

Phil: You know a game from that generation did also have excellent sound design.

Phil: That was Black on the Xbox.

Tom: Another phone-sensing shooter?

Phil: Yeah, yeah.

Phil: I don't know if it...

Phil: That was an Xbox exclusive, I'm pretty sure.

Tom: But I think it may have got caught into PS

Phil: Yeah, I'm not sure the PSwould have really handled it.

Phil: I mean, it was a pretty challenging game in terms of its graphic design.

Tom: Yeah, it could have been a crap port, of course.

Tom: You must consider...

Phil: Let's say...

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Well, let's say you own, like, Guerrilla Games, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And are they fully owned by Sony at this point, or are they one of the, like, Naughty Dog type...

Phil: Oh, yeah, they were bought out by Sony.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Never mind, yeah.

Phil: I had no idea that they developed Shellshock NAM-

Tom: Did they?

Phil: In fact, it's the only non-Killzone game they've ever developed.

Tom: So they've slowly improved.

Phil: And get this, the year that Shellshock NAM-was released, that's the year that Killzone came out.

Phil: This is baffling to me that Sony would look at Shellshock NAM-and go, you know what, you guys got what it takes.

Phil: We don't have many first-person shooters over here on the PlayStation.

Phil: How about we buy you and you make nothing but the same game for the next six games?

Tom: Well, that will ride in the end because Killzone is in fact a huge franchise.

Tom: Yeah, but is it though?

Phil: I mean, is it?

Tom: It sells well, doesn't it?

Phil: Does it?

Phil: I don't know that it sells that well.

Tom: Can you remember back to any RPG numbers that featured it?

Phil: No, sir, I cannot.

Tom: Because now that you mention that, nor can I.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: This is all a myth propagated by Sony.

Phil: I'm an em...

Phil: no, generator.

Phil: Did I tell you about the M&Ms?

Tom: Yes, you did.

Phil: That was my only other M.

Tom: The last two points on Killzone is...

Phil: No, you only have one more point and then we have to talk about Yakuza.

Tom: I'm doing two very quick ones.

Phil: Very quick.

Tom: The first one is...

Tom: The guns in this are so much better than either Killzone or

Tom: And I'm going to illustrate this point with one very, very simple example and that is that the Helghan assault rifle, just the normal generic Helghan assault rifle that basically all the grunt enemies have, has a fucking secondary, fully blown, powerful, shotgun feature.

Phil: Oh, a shotgun?

Phil: Oh yeah, you're right.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: I remember now.

Tom: That is just awesome.

Phil: The human characters in these games, I forget, do they have like, are they traditional weapons or are they fictitious weapons?

Phil: Like you have an M

Phil: Okay, totally fictional.

Phil: No, traditional.

Tom: I think in they've got some sort of beam based weapon, but I don't remember that in or the original.

Tom: And now the final point is, you can really see that this game wanted so, so much to be Halo.

Tom: There's parts in it that just look % ripped off from Halo.

Phil: Like what?

Tom: Early on when you're evacuating the base, right?

Tom: Do you remember that section?

Phil: Not particularly.

Tom: Okay, well, evacuating this base, you're going through these corridors, so that doesn't look like Halo.

Tom: Then you get to these round sort of areas, circular areas that lead down, and there's some ladders there.

Tom: They are straight out of a Halo spaceship.

Tom: Okay, Halo looks kind of generic anyway, but there's just something about it that makes so much like Halo, more than you would expect from generic spaceship areas.

Tom: So it's interesting seeing the evolution to Killzone where they really develop their own look and own sort of feel and aesthetic to the game.

Phil: That's true.

Phil: Yeah, well, Halo, you're quite right.

Phil: Halo is purple and Killzone is orange.

Tom: Yeah, and that just reminded me of a final point that I'm ending on.

Tom: A third point?

Tom: Seriously, there is a glitch here.

Tom: Whenever I try to climb down a ladder, at least the first five times, it automatically climbs back onto where I was standing.

Tom: What the fuck is that?

Phil: That's where I start playing Killzone.

Phil: The first time you have to climb up a water tanker.

Phil: You get on it and then you go back down it.

Phil: Then you get on it and you go back down it.

Phil: Then you get on it and you go back down it.

Phil: When you eventually get to the top, they give you an impossible sniper mission.

Phil: I loved the opening of it.

Phil: It was very Private Ryan-ish in the bunkers and everything.

Tom: And that was great at the time.

Phil: It was so good in the sound design and everything else.

Phil: But then you have the most broken game development aspects.

Tom: And that fucking sniper rifle, the controls for that are just...

Tom: Why would they even consider making it like that?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Before we go on to Bully, I do want to talk about Yakuza.

Phil: Just a couple of minutes here in our Killzone Yakuza section.

Phil: Patented.

Phil: Do you think Five is going to come to the West?

Tom: Yes.

Phil: I have faith.

Phil: The failure of aliens...

Phil: They said that all they are doing are Sonic, Total War, Aliens and one other game.

Phil: There were four things that they were doing.

Phil: Sonic, Total War, Aliens and one game I can't remember.

Phil: I think it was totally casual.

Phil: They have said that.

Phil: They said those are the only games we are going to bring to the West anymore.

Tom: Well, here is the thing.

Tom: I think it is too early to take that as meaning they are not going to do Yakuza because we wouldn't be expecting to see it for a while yet.

Tom: To me, I think we are going to see it eventually but perhaps even later than expected.

Phil: Here is what I think.

Tom: It might be blind hopefulness though.

Phil: I think, here is my blind hopefulness, they have to do something.

Phil: The western arm of Sega, they have to do something.

Phil: If it is just coming down to Sonic and Total War, then that is kind of sad.

Phil: I remember the letter writing campaign I led for Yakuza to come to the west.

Phil: We tried to do it, it failed and eventually we got it.

Phil: That is all thanks to you that we got it.

Phil: Oh, yeah.

Phil: Basically my argument to them was, as I stated at the time, listen, guys, bring it over with the Japanese voices.

Phil: We don't care.

Phil: Include the English subtitles and we will play these games.

Phil: Guess what?

Phil: That has been the way it has been.

Phil: It has worked fine.

Tom: We want to thank you for bringing it here.

Tom: We also want to thank you for the far superior Japanese audio.

Phil: You can basically thank Phil Fogg by going to our new website gameunder.net and that will be thanks enough.

Phil: I'm single-handedly responsible.

Tom: What's the maker donation?

Phil: Yeah, well, we haven't got that up yet.

Phil: The website does have costs.

Phil: On to Bully.

Phil: I've been playing Bully on the PlayStation

Phil: We'll talk about Dvader's game backloggery later.

Phil: The reason why I'm playing Bully is because a co-member of the VG Press and respected host of the VG Press...

Tom: The Pressing Podcast.

Phil: The Pressing Podcast, I assume we forget.

Phil: He played it and I was like, all right, you know what, I'm going to play it because this is the last time Bully is going to be relevant to anyone I know, right?

Phil: So before I go into my impressions of the game, I was looking up, like, okay, where does Bully fall in to the lineage of Rockstar games?

Phil: So let's just start with the PlayStation era and we're ignoring games like, what was that one, the racing, we're ignoring their racing games, right?

Tom: They were awesome, though.

Phil: They had the Midnight Racing games.

Tom: They did State of Emergency as well.

Phil: They did State of Emergency, which we're also ignoring.

Phil: We could have a whole podcast on State of Emergency later.

Phil: Anyway, GTA was made by North and Vienna, right?

Phil: Vice City came out the next year, in and I remember that going, how on earth did they do that, right?

Phil: How did they do that?

Phil: I think it's because GTA was in the can, like done and finished, for probably a year before they released it, and Take was like, are we going to do it?

Phil: Are we not going to do it?

Phil: -happened.

Phil: Remember, it was going to launch on -which was a Tuesday, and then, you know, it got pushed out and on and on.

Phil: And then Vice City came up, and basically they were able to do it because probably they had been working on it for two years.

Phil: And it's made by Rockstar North and Rockstar Vienna.

Phil: And Vienna was closed in

Phil: We never heard any more of them, so that's kind of interesting.

Phil: The next year...

Tom: Do we know what the staff might have gone through other sections of Rockstar?

Phil: I wouldn't think so because it would be more geographical, and I don't think, you know, they have offices in San Diego, New York, Toronto, Leeds in England, and Vancouver in Toronto.

Phil: So, I mean, I don't see unless they wanted to move, you know?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, GTA

Phil: Imagine this, right?

Phil: I mean, people give Rockstar a lot of shit, but when you look at what they did year after year, they released a game a year, sometimes multiple games a year, that were all very creative games.

Phil: GTA Vice City, Manhunt, that was done by North.

Phil: Red Dead Revolver, from San Diego.

Phil: San Andres, the same year that was done by New York.

Phil: Warriors, which is one of my favorite Rockstar games, comes out in done by Toronto.

Phil: Liberty Steery Stories comes out the same year from Leeds.

Phil: Then, amazingly, they bring out the Ping Pong game for the Xbox in

Phil: That was San Diego.

Tom: How can you include the Ping Pong game yet not Midnight Club?

Phil: Well, because it doesn't use the same engines.

Phil: So, Ping Pong, the table tennis game, was basically a test of what they were going to be doing with Grand Theft Auto

Phil: So, you see San Diego goes from doing Red Dead Revolver, and San Diego also did those ATV games, whatever they were called.

Phil: They go from to

Phil: They go to the Ping Pong game, right?

Phil: Yep.

Phil: Then, they release Bully, right?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: Same year as the Ping Pong game.

Phil: After the is already launched, they release a PlayStation exclusive, Bully.

Phil: And that's done by Vancouver, which at this point hasn't done anything for Rockstar.

Tom: So, this is their game view?

Phil: Yeah, and then the next year, Leeds does Vice City Stories and Leeds also does Manhunt which would have been a trivial thing, I assume.

Phil: And then, of course, New York comes out with GTA

Tom: And they run of good gamezines.

Phil: Yeah, I would have put Bully before Warriors.

Phil: Like, in my mind, I would have thought that Bully would have been pre or around San Andreas and before Warriors.

Tom: I remember that coming out.

Tom: That was really late.

Phil: What's that?

Tom: I remember it coming out really late.

Phil: Yeah, and I remember talking amongst fellow game collectors, because they were all like, oh, you've got to get the ball version, the dodgeball version, you know.

Phil: And the thing about collectors is we're very hot on getting late generation releases, right?

Phil: Which for the PlayStation completely burned us, because they only discontinued the PlayStation in right?

Phil: Yet in we're all, oh, we've got to get this one, this could be the last RPG on the PlayStation

Phil: I can't tell you how many shit games, probably, I'm going to guess conservatively, about PlayStation games in my collection, which is about and something of PlayStation games, were bought because they were late generation PlayStation games, that were niche and going to be rare.

Phil: So I was just shocked that Bully came out after Liberty City Stories, before Vice City Stories and after The Warriors.

Phil: Warriors is just brilliant.

Phil: Have you played it?

Tom: You've seen the movie?

Tom: No.

Phil: Wow, you're in for a treat one of these days.

Tom: I almost bought it when it first came out, and then almost bought it a few years later from a bargain being that failed both times.

Phil: I would say someone of your stature would still be able to enjoy The Warriors.

Phil: I would watch the movie, then play the game.

Phil: There's no other way to do it.

Phil: I did not know of this whole IP until I bought the game, then I bought the movie, then I watched the movie, played the game.

Tom: I did not know of The Warriors.

Tom: That's a pretty big film.

Phil: I'm a busy guy.

Phil: I'm out there buying, you know...

Tom: Get crap PSgames.

Phil: Basically, everyone's played Billy, so I'm just going to go...

Phil: Just one thing, I thought the Halloween mission was brilliant.

Phil: I just thought it was great.

Phil: The atmosphere was excellent.

Phil: And it's a great...

Phil: It's a charming little GTA game.

Phil: I would love to know your perspective on this.

Phil: I think this was a kids' game.

Phil: I think this was intended as a kids' game, which would explain its very easy difficulty.

Phil: I mean, I have not undertaken a challenge yet, which I was unable to beat on the first attempt.

Tom: So I would say...

Tom: Is the difficulty the only reason for this, first of all?

Phil: The setting.

Phil: I think because of the setting, they thought that more kids would be...

Phil: Basically, this is a way to get your parents to buy you a GTA game.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, here's what I was going to go with this is...

Tom: I don't think the setting is at all geared towards children.

Phil: No, no.

Tom: Hey, what about...

Phil: I'm talking like seven and up.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Let me finish.

Tom: I would say, here's what I think happened.

Tom: They started off making it as an adult satire on schools.

Tom: Then at some stage, they came about and thought, well, wait a minute.

Tom: If we're making something with the setting of inner school, where all the characters are children, this is surely going to have a broader appeal to children.

Tom: At this stage, then started perhaps trying to make the appeal a little more to children and also perhaps make toning down the gameplay.

Tom: Yep.

Tom: To me, at its core, it is not designed for children, but there's also a sense that at some stage, they then started thinking about, well, for broader appeal, we should perhaps make it more appealing to children.

Phil: Are you familiar with the show Grange Hill?

Tom: No.

Phil: Grange Hill was a series that ran in England for like plus years, which was...

Phil: Bully steals from openly.

Phil: I mean, Rockstar has never had an original idea.

Phil: They're like Google.

Phil: They steal from everyone.

Phil: And they're good at it, though.

Phil: I mean, yeah.

Phil: If you're not the person that came up with the idea, it's easy to improve upon it, you know?

Phil: So, Grange Hill is basically what this game is about.

Phil: And Grange Hill was great because it was aimed at children, but it always had something for adults.

Phil: And it's kind of like, you know, soap operas, like Home and Away.

Phil: They're really going after the teen market, but they put enough in there that an adult can reasonably watch it and not be, you know, ashamed that they're watching a kids' show.

Phil: Home and Away is an Australian soap opera, and it is primarily aimed at teenagers.

Phil: I mean, it's set, most of the stories are set around a high school, but they have enough adult things in there so that a very low IQ person could conceive that they're watching some form of drama.

Phil: And I wouldn't endorse it.

Phil: I mean, I wouldn't endorse watching these.

Phil: There's some aspect of me that really enjoys soap operas, so it's kind of like why I keep away from MMOs.

Phil: I keep away from soap operas because they just give you this pabulum of your brain is taking in information but not having to process it.

Tom: Well, here's the thing about soap operas.

Tom: Have you seen The Original Coronation Street?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Yes.

Phil: Oh, yes.

Tom: See, now, that is an awesome show.

Phil: And EastEnders and, yeah.

Tom: That is actually in, as far as I can see, and bear in mind, I've only seen, I think about half of the first season.

Tom: That is actually really well done.

Tom: It's all basically done in one take.

Tom: It's actually, you know, as far as craft and stuff, it's excellent.

Tom: It's enjoyable as far as the craft is concerned.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And here's the reason why because soap operas are produced so quickly and rapidly.

Phil: At least my understanding is of it and what I've looked into.

Phil: I wouldn't say research, but what I've looked into is there is a lot of the writers planning out the plot points and then going to the actors and going, okay, we've got a two-minute scene here.

Phil: This is what we're trying to get to.

Phil: You know your characters.

Phil: Let's go.

Phil: So it is basically improvisation.

Phil: It's the same with WWE wrestling and all those sorts of things.

Phil: Many people who are into WWE or also into soap operas, because it's the same thing, right?

Phil: No one is writing word for word what wrestlers say to each other.

Phil: It's just basically, okay, we're at this plot point.

Phil: We're trying to get to this plot point.

Phil: Go.

Phil: And with the right people, like crazy soap opera actors who think they're the actual character, it works.

Phil: Curb Your Enthusiasm, Larry David's show, which is brilliant, is the same thing.

Phil: You have a bunch of very funny people who have done stand-up comedy for a long time, basically saying, okay, here's the three overall arcs.

Phil: This is where this fits in the arc.

Phil: Go for it.

Phil: And it works.

Phil: Were we talking about a video game?

Tom: I just want to say that's what, to me, kills soap operas, is the progress of television going from...

Tom: while this is still visible in many modern soap operas, it is played down so much because unlike in the original ones, it is not literally done in one take for an entire scene.

Tom: To me, that kills soap operas to a great degree.

Tom: There is not as much enjoyment of the actual performance.

Tom: So it ends up coming across as a really lightweight and cheaply done high drama as opposed to an interesting, completely, to a degree, improvised and basically a staged performance.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, you say the decline of soap operas is because of lack of, you know, one shot or all in one take type thing.

Phil: Obviously, soap operas have gone under demise mostly because of Facebook.

Phil: At least that's what the popular reporting is, is that people who stay at home are now spending all of their time engaging in their own personal soap operas and then also watching reality cooking shows as well.

Phil: So, you know...

Tom: It might be in terms of writing, but I would disagree with that.

Tom: To me, soap operas have been in steady decline since well before the advent of Facebook.

Phil: Alright, so what would be your favourite all time from the time you were a kid till now, your favourite soap opera?

Tom: I would have to say, and just to ignore everything I said before, probably a country practice All Neighbours.

Phil: Boy, you're going to introduce that.

Phil: You're going to go back that far.

Tom: A country practice is in as far back as Coronation Street.

Phil: Oh, I know, I know.

Phil: What about Flying Doctors?

Tom: Can't recall seeing much of it.

Phil: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

Phil: I'm going to have to say this is not really true to the form because it was only on once a week but I'd have to say that my guiltiest pleasure in terms of this form of drama would probably be a show called Carson's Law.

Phil: But anyway, everyone can look that up and see what that's about.

Phil: Haven't heard of it.

Tom: Is that a lawyer's show?

Phil: It's an Australian show and it was set in the s in Melbourne, Sydney.

Phil: I can't recall.

Phil: But back to video games.

Phil: What else have you been playing?

Tom: And good timing considering this game is also set in around

Tom: And the game is Shin Megami Tensei, Devil Summoner, Raidou Kuzunoha versus The Soulless Army.

Phil: What platform?

Phil: First of all, I got to know.

Tom: PS

Tom: It's only on PS

Tom: And yes, that is the full title.

Tom: And the first thing you notice about this game is being set in around the s, sometime after the First World War.

Tom: The characters are basically wearing silent film makeup and are animated in a very sort of silent film.

Tom: Facial expressions and whatnot, which actually makes for a very good aesthetic.

Tom: And it works well because there is no spoken dialogue in the game.

Phil: Not even in cut scenes?

Tom: Not even in the cut scenes.

Tom: In the cut scenes where there is dialogue, you get a speech bubble with the dialogue slowly scrolling through it.

Phil: Well, what year is this from?

Phil: I mean, I know I have this game, but I didn't...

Phil: I know I had this game.

Tom: It's not even that old.

Tom: I'll get the exact date.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, I also have the boxed sequel to this and I'm never going to open this box.

Phil: I have number and it has a Jack Frost plushie.

Tom: I saw that.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: That looks awesome.

Phil: We'll include an image, but basically, I mean, there's no way I'm ever going to open this box.

Tom: And that was only released in America, in English, by the way, the sequel.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Oh, really?

Tom: American exclusive.

Phil: See, I thought this is what perplexed me.

Phil: I didn't think the original was released in the West until I went over the collection and started looking through all of this stuff.

Tom: Guess the release date of this.

Phil:

Tom: Close.

Tom: for Japan and America and for Europe.

Tom: So it's not even like it's an early-gen PSgame.

Phil: Oh, no.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And the thing is, the lack of dialogue, because of the whole silent film aesthetic, could have worked, but there's two things, because the animation is actually, really does fit the characters very well and almost pulls off their lack of dialogue.

Tom: But the problem is, it's still got sound effects in these cutscenes.

Tom: And it's still got music, which, okay, silent films do sometimes have music, but it's not like silent film music.

Tom: It's very, very generic RPG style music.

Tom: And on top of that, there's only a couple of songs.

Tom: And these songs often don't even have variations on a theme.

Tom: They're often literally the same song in different areas of the game.

Tom: So apparently they just decided to spend maybe $on the total sound design.

Tom: So it's mind-boggling the sound design.

Tom: It's just so incredibly cheap.

Tom: But the thing is you can't help but love the game.

Tom: The main character's outfit, he appears to be wearing a pair of white panties and a bra.

Phil: Who's the main character?

Tom: The main character is Raidou Kuzunoha the Fourteenth, which is the title of the main devil summoner of the time.

Tom: And you also get to name him.

Tom: And by the way, I called my version of him Staunch Country, which I don't know how it seemed to fit the setting perfectly.

Tom: And so his outfit, he's wearing like a black cloak.

Tom: It's a Japanese high school uniform.

Tom: But over that, he's got a white holster, which looks from a distance exactly like a pair of panties.

Tom: I can't even remember what the thing that he's wearing around his chest...

Phil: It's like an ammo belt.

Phil: He's got those things that he throws.

Tom: Yeah, and it looks exactly like a bra.

Tom: I mean, you see this from a distance, you would automatically think he is wearing a bra and panties.

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: You might want to get your eyes checked.

Phil: It looks like an ammo belt.

Phil: It looks like a holster and an ammo belt.

Tom: Are you looking at screenshots?

Phil: No, I'm looking at the back of the sequel.

Phil: It's a massive...

Tom: It might be different in the sequel.

Tom: On the cover of the original, it doesn't look like what it looks like in-game at all.

Phil: And he's got his little policeman cap.

Tom: In-game, I'm telling you, it is a fucking bra and panties.

Tom: But anyway...

Phil: Is it fixed camera or does the camera rotate?

Phil: Do they control the camera or is it fixed?

Tom: In battle or in field?

Phil: In field.

Tom: In field, it's fixed camera.

Tom: And so...

Tom: The interesting thing about it is, though, the combat.

Tom: It's not a turn-based style combat.

Tom: Not only do you have the use of a sword, which is quite limited, you've got three basic attacks.

Tom: You can do light combos, which is three taps of square.

Tom: You can do a more powerful attack, and I can't remember off the top of my head how to do this as I finished it a while ago.

Tom: And you can do a lunge forward.

Tom: But on top of that, you've also got the pistol, which stuns enemies.

Tom: And you can also use elemental bullets, which if you use them against an enemy, who's weak to that element, they then get not only stunned, but you can then go and do a critical attack on them.

Phil: So if they're a fire enemy, ward a bullet, that kind of thing?

Phil: And do they have sword alchemy in this one?

Tom: Yes, they do.

Phil: Okay, so there is that level.

Tom: What you do for that is you get a demon to like you enough, then you can forge them with your sword.

Phil: How do you get affinity with a demon?

Tom: You battle with them or you use an item.

Phil: Do they have like a talk or negotiate option with the enemies, like in Phantasy Star kind of thing?

Tom: Yeah, well, what they've got is a different type of demon.

Tom: There's pagan demons and there's also ice demons and whatnot.

Tom: They've got a special ability which is used in puzzle solving and exploring the world.

Tom: So, for example, pagan demons can read the minds of random people around.

Tom: Ice demons can calm people down and that sort of thing.

Tom: But the thing is, on top of that, when you've got their affinity with you, the other thing you do with them is you combine them with other demons to create new demons.

Tom: So, I got kind of addicted to simply collecting as many demons as I could, getting them all to the highest affinity and then going into this mechanic and seeing what new demons I could create through this.

Tom: And while most of them are demons you can simply get elsewhere, often you can get the demons that you wouldn't be coming across at a later point early.

Tom: So, it's to your interest to do this sort of thing.

Tom: And while it's really simple, it's basically Pokemon light from what I've played Pokemon.

Tom: It's just as engaging as Pokemon and just as enjoyable.

Phil: And slightly more adult in theme, I would imagine, given the aesthetic of the game, at least.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Well, basically, the story is some Japanese general goes rogue and plans to, for the sins of the Japanese army, kill everyone in the cabin.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And the themes are, well, primitive and completely over the top.

Tom: They're quite well done, and you've got all these whole Japanese army guilt throughout the whole thing, and Japanese Empire guilt throughout the whole thing.

Tom: So it's definitely worth playing if you enjoy Japan's inherited guilt and fear of nuclear holocaust.

Phil: Well, I know Shadow Hearts Covenant did a good job of that as well.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And it was set in the same exact era, World War I, you know, went all over the world, but also dealt with Japan.

Phil: So it was kind of, you know, it's a retcon of the whole thing.

Phil: It's basically, you know, looking at that era.

Phil: All history is chronocentric, which I think is the term I came up with.

Phil: You know, you're always looking at the past through the lens of the present.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And so what we think of what was going on in World War I era Japan obviously has nothing to do with what actually was going on.

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: And even if you look back years to the war in Iraq, our memories of it now obviously are nothing like what was actually going on at the time.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Well, is there much more to say about...

Tom: Just two very quick things.

Tom: The first thing is that...

Tom: The other great thing about the demons is the design is really good.

Tom: For example, there is...

Tom: One of the enemies is a car, basically.

Phil: Oh, right on.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And there's also basically a sort of imp, Japanese imp slash cherub, which has a tentacle for a penis.

Tom: And there's also...

Tom: They've got the classic Japanese...

Phil: Wait, wait.

Phil: An imp has a tentacle?

Tom: Yeah, for a penis.

Phil: An imp is a little tiny thing, right?

Phil: And a tentacle is this large...

Tom: Yep.

Tom: It's a big tentacle dick.

Phil: It's basically what you'd visualize if you were to say an imp with a tentacle penis.

Tom: Well, you've got to bear in mind Japanese imp.

Tom: So it's this black sort of levitating...

Tom: .

Tom: evil sort of guy that is very impish with a tentacle dick.

Phil: Oh, right on.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And there's also, of course, the classic penis-headed demon, as you see around in Japanese mythology everywhere.

Phil: And in Aliens.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And so apart from that, the only disappointing thing about the combat, which is really simple but really well done, and when you get into some of the lighter battles which are really tough, you've actually got to consider what attacks you're using, what demons you're using, because the other thing is you can at any time in battle swap out your demons for a different element.

Tom: So if you've got a demon of a certain element, you can get a huge upper hand in battle, and if you've got one of a crap element compared to the people you're battling, you can just get completely destroyed.

Tom: So there's a fair bit of strategy involved.

Tom: And the last thing I forgot to mention was the demons in your party basically have their own AI.

Tom: So if you don't tell them to do anything, they'll just float around acting as they would if you were battling them normally except against enemies.

Phil: That's cool.

Tom: Yep, but you can give them direct orders, like tell them to use a specific skill, but you can also give them sort of more simple orders, so you can tell them to support you, and so they'll focus on healing you, but sometimes attack and that sort of thing.

Tom: So it's basically a simplified version of Final Fantasy XII's battle system, which they were hugely lauded for as if they invented this idea in Japanese RPGs.

Tom: But lo and behold, just as their real-time combat system has been done elsewhere, voila, their commands have been done elsewhere as well.

Phil: In fact, that same thing is in Spec Ops The Line to a large degree.

Phil: So it's hardly an original idea.

Tom: Just as many, many combat systems that are in any JRPG somewhat breaks through into the mainstream get lauded for, even though there's a million small JRPGs that have done this before.

Phil: Look at GTA San Andreas, for example, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know, how lauded it was because if you went, you know, for all the RPG elements that were in that, and we've talked about this before, that basically, you know, how will JRPGs survive?

Phil: Well, they're going to survive as features of regular games.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, well, with that...

Tom: The last thing, in fact, I'm going to stand that point is the more games, more JRPGs I play that aren't simply using a turn-based system, all of them, and many of them are quite good, simply demonstrate just how damn exceptional the combat system in Hyperdimension, Neptune and Mkis.

Phil: And how is that?

Tom: Well, it basically does all of these things that these systems do, combining them with, on top of that, combat systems from, like, Final Fantasy Tactics to create an exceptional, perfect system, where it's basically every JRPG you've played, not done better than the best of the best, but done more than adequately so that you get a great taste of everything that JRPGs have to offer in their combat systems.

Tom: And it does do it better than the more run-of-the-mill combat systems.

Phil: Right, and when you combine that with the, you know, all the meta jokes...

Tom: It's a perfect combination of gameplay and things.

Phil: And things.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Alright, well that's it for what we've been playing.

Phil: We're going to move on to our feature now.

Phil: We're going to be basically spoiling a lot of...

Phil: We're going to be spoiling the game Spec Ops The Line, which is a game that came out in last year.

Tom: I would just say for those that don't want to be spoiled, don't get the PC port.

Phil: Do not get the PC port.

Phil: Try and pick up the PlayStation or version.

Phil: Though other people like SteelAttack at thebgpress.com didn't have a problem on the PC.

Tom: Well, that's incorrect, I have to say.

Tom: That's a load of bullshit, first of all.

Tom: First and foremost, just tell me, was the console's version incredibly jaggy?

Phil: No.

Tom: He said his version was in fact incredibly jaggy, and he had his card forcing it to do FXAA.

Phil: Well, let's just say that, you know...

Tom: And on top of that, I've also...

Tom: While I was saying this, a friend has been playing SteelWit, and they've had even more port issues than I have.

Tom: So it's definitely % crap port.

Phil: In that case, at least get it for the PlayStation

Phil: I can vouch for that.

Phil: I don't know about the version.

Phil: This is not a big seller, so I wouldn't imagine that the publisher Ubisoft would have much interest in doing a good port to the PC.

Phil: It's probably just the cash grab, because it did pick up such a cult status after its release that they were probably like, okay, well, if we release this digitally through Steam, et cetera, you know, we'll be able to make a few hundred grand.

Phil: Just, you know, whatever.

Phil: Just port the frigging thing, right?

Tom: And cash grab is a massive understatement.

Phil: Well, while I agree that the PC version, based on what you've had to say and those around you have said about it, is a cash grab, I mean, specifically, I mean, what was so much worse about it?

Phil: Because, you know, for the complaints about the game that people had on the console version, no one ever brought up the technical aspects of it.

Tom: Yeah, well, the first thing I'll say is, functionally, it's a solid port.

Tom: Like, the controls are handled well enough.

Tom: You're not running into game-destroying glitches, console, that sort of thing.

Tom: But this I have only ever seen, but I can think of off the top of my head, at least, in one other game, which is, it does not support a different aspect ratio apart from widescreen.

Tom: So on my to monitor, I have to play with black bars.

Tom: Now, maybe this was...

Tom: Here's just the sort of level of games that you might expect this to be.

Tom: The only game I can think of that does this is A Virus Named Tom.

Tom: And in the case of A Virus Named Tom, it actually kind of makes sense just...

Tom: Once again, we're considering the budget constraints involved here.

Tom: Makes somewhat sense for the gameplay because the size and ratio and everything of the maps involved are important, right?

Tom: So if you were to put that on a -monitor, you wouldn't be able to change the shape of the map.

Tom: You'd basically, instead of having black bars at the top and the bottom, say, you would just have the background unrelated to any gameplay extending further.

Tom: So that's kind of pointless.

Tom: Now, that doesn't apply to a shooter.

Tom: In a shooter, there's absolutely no reason not to simply cut off the edges.

Tom: You could say you lose some peripheral vision, but it's so much more natural to play that with the screen filled up.

Tom: The only other reason I think of it is apart from just sheer laziness is maybe they wanted it for some sort of theatrical reason so that it still looked like a film.

Tom: Just if you want to do that, which surely not.

Tom: Surely not.

Tom: Just have the cutscenes like that.

Tom: There's no need to try and resize the cutscenes, which a lot of games do do very well, by the way.

Tom: You would expect that in a lot of games.

Tom: But if you want to keep a cinematic ratio and the cutscenes fine, don't do that in the gameplay.

Tom: That's just utter stupidity.

Tom: Seriously.

Phil: What is your favourite movie of all time?

Phil: Like what is the movie that you respect the most?

Tom: There is no single film.

Phil: Well, give me like two or three.

Tom: I'll give you two, then I can think of all three.

Tom: I'll give you three.

Tom: I just thought of the third one.

Tom: Off the top of my head, let's say A Space Odyssey, Sympathy for Mr Vengeance and Brazil.

Phil: Let's take Space Odyssey, right?

Phil: Basically, like here's the analogy, right?

Phil: When I went to see Jurassic Park ten years ago, was it ten years ago or twenty?

Tom: I don't think it was twenty.

Tom: I'm pretty sure that came out twenty years ago, but I would say it's more than ten.

Tom: Maybe fifteen or something.

Phil: Fifteen, right?

Phil: Let's say I went to see it and I went, I made a point because I was an idiot and I was so young.

Phil: I made a point of going to see it on the biggest screen possible, right?

Phil: With the best sound and I stood in line for a long time and I probably got the premier experience of Jurassic Park that was available to anyone, right?

Phil: Now, if you had waited a year or a year and a half, it eventually would have made its way down to one of the multiplexes where they have the screens that are cut in half, you know, because they downsize the theater to make two theaters and it's a dollar eighty to get in as opposed to, you know, seventeen, fifty and all the rest.

Phil: When I hear you talk about Spec Ops The Line, what I want our listeners to understand is that this game is brilliant on so many levels and basically what Tom is describing is he went and saw it when it was a dollar eighty a year and a half later in some shitty theater where you pay a dollar eighty for a matinee where they don't clean the chairs in between, you know, individual showings.

Phil: You're seeing a compromised experience of this game which really has nothing to do with the original producers of the game because the game came out for the consoles and then once it built up this indie hype, not indie hype, this cult classic hype, then it was exploited as a cash grab on the PC.

Phil: That has nothing to do with the people that did all the hard technical work to bring out the great console version.

Tom: I'm not blaming them.

Phil: As you continue to criticize the game though, we should note that the limitations under which you observed the game were not optimal.

Tom: You need not worry.

Tom: My criticisms of the actual game itself can be blamed solely on the people that made it and are unrelated to any technical...

Phil: Let's hang this on the publisher.

Phil: It is the publisher's fault.

Phil: They're the one charging real money from people who do real work for a game on the PC and they have fallen short.

Phil: They're not only letting down the people who play it, they're letting down the people who loved it on the console and they're letting down the people who built this game.

Phil: And built this game over four years, you know?

Phil: Anyway, I'm sorry to have to interrupt you, but that's basically my...

Phil: I just wanted to make sure that we're clear that you had a compromised experience with this game, mostly because of the publisher, not because of the developer.

Tom: Here's the other point.

Phil: Having said that...

Tom: Yeah, as I said.

Tom: So let's just move straight into the criticism then.

Tom: Now, I played this on hard, and I'm sure you may have noticed, as you were involved in this, both you and Steel and a couple of others seemed to think that this was a bad idea.

Tom: And that perhaps...

Tom: And are you going to attempt to blame the publisher for this as well?

Tom: Did the publisher attempt to shoehorn in a hard difficulty?

Tom: Because apparently I should not have played it on hard.

Phil: I think, first of all, number one, just no response, please, you're an idiot playing a game on its first playthrough on hard without at least trying it on its...

Phil: the default difficulty.

Phil: There is a default difficulty suggested, right?

Phil: So when you get into a manual transmission car, the default gear for going, let's say, kilometers an hour, is fourth, right?

Phil: You do not go, well, that's great, but I'm going to try it in third, right?

Phil: You're going to blow up the engine.

Phil: I do think that you are living up to your fool's name.

Tom: But that analogy makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Phil: I just think you're punching yourself in the face going into a game, starting it on hard.

Phil: Now, I do agree with you that if the publisher is going to make hard available at the start, they need to make sure that it is a good experience on that level of difficulty.

Phil: And instead, if they're not going to do the QA into that, they should just release the game and have normal and easy, and then once you've beaten the game on normal, then they can unlock hard.

Phil: So yeah, I mean...

Tom: See, that is my point.

Tom: I don't see how you can blame anyone but the developer for stuffing something up.

Tom: If they include it...

Phil: No, you're the guy that goes into an Indian restaurant and says, oh, I like spicy food.

Phil: No, wait.

Phil: I like spicy food.

Phil: Give me your hottest dish ever, right?

Phil: And then you take a mouthful and you're like, oh, I can't eat this.

Phil: I can't eat this.

Phil: This is fucking terrible.

Tom: Take this back.

Phil: I'm not paying for it, right?

Tom: Except two problems with that.

Tom: One is I would have no trouble with that hot food.

Phil: Nor would I.

Tom: And secondly, though, once again, I think the point that is being missed here is the issues with the difficulty, the frustration involved, was not due to the design of the difficulty.

Tom: The problem was with flaws in design that led to this being an issue.

Tom: And just to demonstrate this point, I'll use this example, right?

Tom: There were three occasions where I died enough for the game to suggest that I play on a lower difficulty, right?

Phil: So they're helping you along.

Tom: Now, the first time this happened...

Phil: The waiter comes along and says, Sir, would you like a glass of water?

Phil: And you said...

Tom: No, fuck you.

Tom: But the first time this happened was the helicopter scene.

Tom: Now, you got through this fine, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: But I'm going to pause here, right?

Phil: Because I'm going to take a step back, and I'm going to give our listeners, those whom have not yet played Spec Ops, we haven't spoiled the game yet, and we'll give you ample warning when we are.

Phil: Spec Ops is technically a third-person shooter with very light squad-based strategy elements, right?

Phil: So when you hear Spec Ops, you might be scared off because you think, oh, Spec Ops, that's that squad-based game.

Phil: You go to control like four different guys and tell them what to do and everything.

Phil: This was a game development team that was basically told, you guys need to make a Spec Ops game.

Phil: It needs to have Spec Ops in the name.

Phil: It needs to be a shooter and it needs to be set in Dubai.

Phil: I know all this from listening to developer interviews.

Phil: And then from there on, they developed a game and they found that it was pretty poor.

Phil: They found that the gameplay was pretty generic.

Phil: And at that point Ubisoft and game reviewers had come in and played the game and gone, okay, this is fine.

Phil: It's serviceable game.

Phil: But Ubisoft said, okay, we're not going to do anything with this game.

Phil: This game is not going to sell.

Phil: It's very generic.

Phil: Therefore, they took the leashes off of the writers and said, try and make this special.

Phil: And so they did.

Phil: They basically took Conrad's novel The Heart of Darkness, which was later transmorphed into the film...

Tom: Apocalypse Now.

Phil: Apocalypse Now.

Phil: And that's what this game is based on.

Phil: And the writers have said that that's what they were using as their inspiration.

Phil: So, I mean, kudos, first of all, for Ubisoft for not pulling an Activision and just pulling the plug like they killed sleeping dogs, right?

Phil: And second of all, I mean, how amazing is it to get a game where the publisher tells the writers, okay, you know what, we know this game is kind of boring, so if you want to do what you want with the story, go for it.

Phil: I mean, when I talked about this at thevgpress.com, that's where I was saying this game never should have been published.

Phil: Like a rational publisher like Activision, you know, a profit-based company would never have published this game, let alone for the subject matter and everything else, because it's not a special game beyond its story, and you'll get into that.

Phil: Well, I played it too, so I get to give impressions too.

Phil: But basically, I did want to take a step back and let people know this is a third-person shooter.

Phil: Nolan North voices the lead character, does a spectacular job throughout the game.

Phil: I particularly liked the one strategy element of the game, which you get to paint targets, which I know is fairly common in shooters these days.

Phil: But basically, you get to paint them and tell your AI partners, you know, focus in on those characters.

Phil: So basically, having said that, I just wanted to give everyone a framework as to what we're talking about when it comes to Spec Ops The Line.

Phil: I'll let you take the floor again.

Tom: So the first occasion where it suggested all over the difficulty was Helicopsy.

Tom: You got through it fine.

Tom: Still have the same problem with me.

Tom: The other person I know who was playing it also got through it fine.

Tom: Now, here's the reason for this, okay?

Tom: It is completely random.

Tom: There is no...

Tom: nothing the player can do to get through it using skill or whatever.

Tom: What happens is you're running along avoiding helicopter fire, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: I'm taking your word for it because I don't even remember this scene.

Tom: Well, the first time I ran through, okay?

Tom: Straight line, just straight ahead thinking, okay, this is...

Tom: what this is like in most games, you know, it's basically not a gameplay section.

Tom: You're just running in a cutscene, right?

Tom: So then you turn a corner and I stopped here thinking due to the geography involved that the helicopter wasn't going to come and shoot me again.

Tom: So while stopped here though and I was looking around at the environment as one does, I then got shot by the helicopter.

Tom: So I started again, thought, okay, fine.

Tom: Did literally the...

Tom: exactly the same thing, ran exactly the same pathway forwards, started sprinting exactly the same time.

Tom: Oh, wait a minute, halfway along I'm dead.

Tom: So then I think maybe I did something different.

Tom: Maybe there is some sort of strategy required here.

Tom: So the next time I watched where the fire from the helicopter was coming from, right, which is completely scripted, it's the same each time.

Tom: So I got killed again, but I could see where it was coming from.

Tom: So this time I decided to sort of strafe a bit and avoid it, died again.

Tom: And so I tried again and again, trying different things.

Tom: No matter what I did, % of the time, I literally died in exactly the same spot as if it was scripted that I had to die there.

Tom: And so, for example, I could pause without starting to run for two seconds, then start sprinting and I would die in the same spot.

Tom: Right?

Tom: There was no rhyme or reason to what the hell was happening.

Tom: So I then went to YouTube.

Tom: I watched some other people doing it.

Tom: And once again, there was no discernible way to actually progress beyond sheer luck.

Tom: And most of the commentary of these people dying repeatedly again and again, generally have the same point that what the fuck is this utter load of rubbish?

Phil: Okay, well, at this point, I'm going to insert a spoiler warning.

Phil: So everyone who's been listening to this point, who hasn't played the game, gosh guys, don't listen on it at this point because you've got to experience this game and you can get it for cheap.

Phil: Don't get the PC version.

Phil: Go get the old, you know, the console versions used.

Phil: It's a game you can beat in two to three games.

Phil: It's a, I think, and Steel Attack thinks, it's one of the most consequential video games of all time.

Phil: He thinks it's the best shooter of all time.

Phil: I think it's merely the most consequential video game of this generation.

Phil: What consequences are we going to have?

Phil: Well, we're going to get into that.

Phil: So that's a spoiler.

Phil: Now, what if, for all...

Phil: Tom, if...

Phil: What if...

Phil: Like you say that you're assuming that the story doesn't actually play out that much differently regardless of your choices.

Phil: This is a game of many, many choices.

Tom: Hang on, wait a minute.

Tom: Is this relevant to this point first of all?

Phil: Yes, absolutely, because what I'm saying is what if the developer...

Phil: There are many choices you can make in the game, but ultimately, up until the end, you're still going to go down the same path.

Phil: It's just a matter of how you're going to feel about yourself, what cutscenes you see.

Phil: So throughout the game, there's probably about times where you get to make a decision, where it's going to have an impact later on the game, in terms of what you see.

Phil: In terms of the story and where you go and what levels you go and who you shoot, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever.

Phil: So what I'm asking you is, is perhaps the randomness of this helicopter thing a comment on the fact that what you do, regardless of your choices, doesn't have a difference.

Phil: It doesn't make a difference.

Phil: You can go left, you can go right, you're going to die.

Phil: Or you can go straight ahead and get through, because we've randomly determined that, you know, at the flip of a coin in the code, at the start of this experience, you're either going to get through the first time, as I did, to the point where I didn't even remember this level, because I just walked right through it.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Or to the point where you and many YouTube commenters are like, what's going on here?

Phil: No matter what I do, I don't...

Tom: Well, let me just say this then.

Phil: Are you being disenfranchised on purpose, as a part of the larger point of the game?

Tom: No.

Tom: Well, maybe you are, but if that is the case, that is single-handedly the most incredibly stupid way to illustrate a point in any video game I have ever played in my entire life.

Tom: And I sincerely hope that that is not the case.

Phil: You know what?

Phil: I'd agree with you.

Tom: What?

Phil: I do agree with you.

Phil: I was just wondering if that was...

Phil: I just wondered if it was intentional or not.

Tom: Well, that's actually a good question because maybe it is because where the writers struggle the absolute most is where they're trying to make a point unsubtly.

Tom: And that would be an incredibly unsubtle way of making that point.

Tom: And it wouldn't really surprise me.

Tom: Well, it would, to be honest, because that's just so extreme.

Tom: But it wouldn't be too far-fetched to be possibly believable that it might have been...

Tom: that that might be the case, what you described.

Phil: Given the pre-rain they had and given the, what do you say, head fucking that goes on in this game, I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

Phil: Obviously it was intentional because it's random, right?

Phil: Someone had to make the choice that it's random.

Phil: So are you making the choice that it's random because you're a dick and you've got to cut out early for lunch on a Friday afternoon?

Phil: Or are you doing it because it underscores the greater thematic narrative of this game?

Tom: And we'll see that at some point because the other thing is, while playthroughs, I assumed that was presumably simply because of poor scaling for Hard, right?

Tom: Where they would have had the amount of bullet does, right?

Tom: But it doesn't work there where you're in that situation.

Tom: But given that Steel had the same problem on Medium, you may in fact have a point, which is not necessarily a good thing.

Phil: No, I mean the game is not perfect.

Phil: I mean, it's not perfect.

Tom: But just moving on very quickly just to finish this point here.

Tom: Now, the second time that this happened, okay, just to demonstrate, I'm not complaining that the game...

Phil: You are.

Phil: You are.

Phil: You hung up on this one little thing.

Tom: No, I'm not.

Tom: Let me finish.

Tom: This is what I'm getting at.

Tom: The second time that it suggested that I should change the difficulty was in a car park section where you are then eventually accosted by a heavy, right?

Tom: So what happened here was I stupidly wasted my ammo, okay?

Tom: So I had to start off with running up and malaying someone and getting ammo.

Tom: So the whole thing was an uphill battle.

Tom: And combined with the poor AI was quite a challenge.

Tom: Now, that was good to me.

Tom: That was good if you ask me.

Tom: I want it to be a challenge.

Tom: And that was a challenge.

Tom: If it was harder than it should have been, it was through my own stupidity, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Yeah, yes.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I'm not blaming the game, okay?

Tom: Now, the next one, and this is partly due to my stupidity, was at one stage your god, the black guy, who is behind you with a pistol, right?

Tom: And his role is to shoot enemies that flank you.

Tom: Now, the trouble with that is, % of the time, it's once again somewhat of a coin flip if he's actually going to shoot them.

Tom: So, you've basically got to make sure that no one does go and flank you.

Tom: Which makes the whole thing drastically hard, because the whole thing is clearly being balanced with a normal in mind where his ineptitude is actually going to be useful.

Tom: Now, once again, this was incredibly frustrating because it was poorly balanced, but I played on hard.

Tom: So, once again, I'm not complaining about that.

Tom: That's the third time.

Tom: Now, the fourth time, the only other time that it suggested I lower the difficulty was at the very end, it starts off, you know the section right, you start off in a golf course, right?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Right outside the giant hotel.

Tom: So then, once you've proceeded through the golf course, you get into another battle, right?

Tom: You begin inside and then you slowly proceed outside.

Tom: Now, that was the only other time in the game where it suggests I lower the difficulty, which, by the way, was due to several times where I deliberately killed myself because I accidentally picked up ammo and I shouldn't have.

Tom: And the reason for that was...

Phil: How did that result in you killing yourself?

Tom: I then deliberately killed myself because I wasted the ammo.

Tom: So I'm playing on hard, so I need to be washing my hair, you see, right?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: So the fourth time that the game told me I should lower the difficulty was right after the golf course.

Tom: It's the very final action sequence.

Tom: So you go in and the only time it told me to lower the difficulty, by the way, was because on several occasions I had to kill myself due to accidentally picking up ammo before I should have, which is the perfect indicator that this part was so much better designed and I got the hard difficulty bang on in this section because I actually had to consider very, very carefully my ammo usage, my grenade usage, and my squad usage.

Tom: All of that was so perfectly done.

Tom: It was basically equivalent to playing a very casual version of Rainbow Six and so much fun compared to the rest of the game.

Tom: Now, as far as I can see, out of those four examples, there's only been one time that I've complained about the game being too hard.

Tom: Yes?

Phil: Right.

Tom: And perhaps the third one.

Tom: But once I realized that and I accepted, okay, the guy behind me is not going to help me.

Tom: That's just a remnant from medium and simply focused entirely my efforts on basically redoing my whole battle strategy.

Tom: I got no problem with that.

Tom: It was just poor scaling, right?

Tom: So the only time that I complained about the difficulty was during the random part, okay?

Tom: So I'm not sure at what stage you can say that playing on hard has in fact diminished my experience of the game in any way.

Phil: No, I'd agree with that.

Phil: I mean basically the bottom line is I think it's generally ill-advised to start a game on hard.

Phil: I think you should start on the default and then if you find it too easy, move up to hard.

Phil: Or if you find it too difficult, move down to easy.

Phil: Which is what I do it all the time.

Phil: If I find a game too hard, I'll move it down to easy.

Phil: I'll launch it up to hard fewer times than more.

Phil: But I'm not going to...

Phil: All I'm saying is the technical aspects of this game were the least of my concerns.

Phil: It actually never even raised its head.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, here's the thing though.

Tom: I mean, if you're playing on normal and breezing through it, I can see there wouldn't be annoyance with the AI.

Tom: And here's a perfectly good illustration...

Phil: I wasn't breezing through it though.

Phil: I mean, on normal...

Tom: The thing is, on normal, you're not necessarily going to be breezing through it.

Tom: But the margin for error is going to be lower.

Tom: So if the AI fucks things up for you, it's going to be less frustrating, right?

Tom: Now, just here's an example of the bizarreness of the AI on hard, okay?

Tom: Up to Chapter I genuinely thought that my teammates could not be killed because I would see them standing down in the opening and the enemies would be shooting them in the head, literally a whole magazine directly into their head.

Tom: And it went literally straight from that in Chapter

Tom: Suddenly, I'm in Chapter they stand there yoping for five seconds and, oh, wait, they're dead and I have to go and heal them or tell the other to go and heal them.

Tom: It was just completely bizarre.

Tom: I mean, that's not even the AI.

Tom: That's the balance of the damage.

Phil: I just...

Tom: it boggles the mind how that can even happen.

Phil: I found that on normal, the enemy AI was pretty much on par with Gears of War.

Phil: They took care of themselves for the most part but from time to time you did have to go over and heal them.

Tom: Let's say at least it's a lot better than Kill Learn and

Tom: But here's the other thing though.

Tom: I mean, I don't think I would have enjoyed it any more on normal because here's the thing.

Tom: On hard, for great periods I was in fact breezing through it.

Tom: I found it generally far too easy.

Tom: So on normal, I can only imagine I would have found it probably just as boring as some of the more frustrating parts of hard.

Tom: I think that's mainly because, except at the very end, those last two combat sections, they never really do anything with the level design.

Tom: It's all kind of exactly the same.

Tom: So after you learn what to do at the very beginning of the game, you're doing the same thing again and again.

Tom: And the AI is so simple.

Tom: The only way that is better than the AI in something on the level of Killzone and from that long ago is that the enemies are more likely to hide and respond to you shooting at them.

Tom: That's the only improvement over something like Killzone.

Tom: So once you get the hang of what you're doing, you can just breeze through % of it even on hard.

Tom: I could anyway.

Phil: I think the enemy AI was nothing to write home about in this game.

Phil: I'm thinking that perhaps maybe even your ease of playing this game on the harder level is in part again because of the bad port, because you're using mouse controls, which is so much easier to apply precise control than the wavy analog sticks of a console.

Tom: The only fix to that is, of course, there are some problems with sticking to cover with the keyboard because you don't have degrees of movement.

Tom: So, for example, you might try to shimmy along, but if you've got the camera angle just slightly off, then he's going to remove himself from the wall.

Phil: Well, that happened in the console game as well.

Phil: It even happens in Gears of War

Phil: The kings of cover where you stick to things that you don't want to stick to or you stick to things too long.

Tom: That's something Binary Domain did so excellently.

Phil: Oh, Binary Domain, man.

Phil: That guy, Nogoshi Skooled.

Phil: Skooled.

Phil: I mean, it's just insane that Gears, which is, like I said, the king of cover, even in the third iteration of the game, still had it wrong.

Phil: And then Binary Domain comes along and just completely owns it.

Tom: I cannot think of a better third person shooter this gen that I've played anyway.

Phil: No, I'd have to give it more thought, but I'd probably come to the same conclusion.

Tom: So basically, the gameplay, it didn't really hit the mark for me overall.

Tom: Now, once again, of course, you're going to say, who cares about the gameplay?

Tom: But to me, it matters.

Tom: I mean, on the one hand, it didn't get in the way of the story, right?

Tom: It didn't prevent me from enjoying the main focus of the game, yep?

Phil: Well, good.

Tom: But the thing is, I'm still spending several hours not doing the story.

Tom: I'm still spending several hours playing the game itself.

Tom: So that's a large part of the experience to me.

Phil: I don't know what to say.

Phil: I found it to be an entirely enjoyable game in and of itself.

Phil: Even if it didn't have the story, I found it to be a workable game.

Tom: I'm not saying it's not workable that I didn't enjoy it.

Tom: It's just like probably a five for me, the gameplay.

Phil: Yeah, I'd say the gameplay itself is probably a seven.

Phil: I mean, yeah, for me, you know, I play a lot of these third-person shooters and I really like the paint elements of it.

Phil: I really did.

Phil: Which would have, you know, which moves it up from a six kind of thing in and of itself.

Phil: But, you know, I play a lot of crap games.

Phil: I play a lot of generic games.

Phil: So just for me, having something that's slightly out of the box was more than enough just on the gameplay element.

Phil: And then they don't...

Phil: The story doesn't kick in until about...

Phil: you're about a third of the way into the game.

Tom: That's the thing I hated.

Phil: Yeah, very subtly.

Tom: I mean, the first third...

Phil: And then they really ramp it up.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Which I think in the overall arc of it works well.

Tom: Once you get past the boring first third, which at the very beginning, it feels like it's setting something up right.

Tom: Then though, it kind of goes off to the wayside where it then just becomes really generic.

Tom: And the chatter between the characters involved is just the most generic crap you could ever come up with.

Tom: And I'm not saying...

Phil: It was on purpose.

Tom: That's the point.

Tom: But when you go through it then, you think, when the fuck is this shit going to end?

Tom: When is it going to get to something good?

Tom: Then it does though.

Tom: And at the end, it fits perfectly with the overall structure of the story.

Phil: So the first third of the game is basically Army of Two, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And see, the craziest thing to me, right, I had a peripheral knowledge of this game, very peripheral knowledge.

Phil: I bought it for cheap.

Phil: I put it in and the very first thing I hear is Jimi Hendrix playing the American National Anthem from, you know, whatever that comes from, god damn it, I can't remember right now, which is in itself provocative.

Phil: It was provocative at the time, right?

Phil: And the American flag is flying upside down.

Phil: And of course, it's part of maritime law.

Phil: Anytime you fly the flag upside down, it means you're under distress.

Phil: So the very first image you see of the game, before you even start the game, on the menu, is an American soldier huddled over next to an American flag that's upside down and you're hearing Jimi Hendrix play the American National Anthem, like, baa, baa, baa, baa, baa, baa, right?

Phil: Which is the theme of you know, and the crazy thing to me, as soon as I saw those two images in a pose, I was like, okay, this game is subversive, right?

Phil: This is a subversive game.

Phil: This is, I mean, very obvious.

Phil: The crazy thing is when I listen to, like, reviewers like Jeff Gerstmann and other people in podcasts, you know, express surprise that a third of the way into the game, the game started to turn subversive.

Phil: It was like, I knew right from the start.

Phil: Oh, holy shit.

Tom: You don't even need to know that that's Jimi Hendrix to get that.

Tom: I mean, this is going to be a ride, right?

Tom: It's the King's Shoes off-key.

Tom: Hey, Redemption of the National Anthem with the flag of Dubai presented like that.

Tom: That's obviously going to be the case.

Phil: Yeah, or the United States, you know.

Phil: So, for me, now the writers said that they wanted to set up the first third of the game, just set it up for dude bros.

Phil: So, as they're playing the game, they're like, okay, we get this, we know what we're doing, we're comfortable with this.

Phil: And then, of course, they flip it on it.

Phil: And we've already given a spoiler warning.

Phil: There were some several shocking things in the game.

Phil: Hang on.

Tom: See, and that's the thing that makes those shocking things work so well.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Because there's no lead up to them.

Tom: I mean, you get the submersive hints that something's going to happen.

Tom: But then it goes into the most generic gameplay and shatter whatever, and bam, there's the white phosphorus.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, now also Nolan North is a part of this as well.

Phil: Right.

Phil: They've got all American Nolan North doing the voices.

Phil: What's interesting to note is that Nolan North did this prior to Uncharted.

Phil: This game was in development for so long that he did the voice work for this before Uncharted had even come out, which of course made him famous from that point forward.

Phil: And his vocal performance in this game, he plays the lead protagonist, you do.

Phil: His voice throughout gets more and more ragged.

Phil: So at the start of the game, which I love, they're quoting Unreal Tournament.

Phil: So like, anyone else want some?

Phil: So in the first third of the game, it's jokey.

Phil: It's like, oh, you kill a guy.

Phil: Anyone else want some?

Phil: And by the end of it, it's like, anyone else want some?

Phil: And, you know, spoilers here.

Phil: But basically, there's a part of the game where you come to...

Phil: Well, first of all, you find some people that you think are enemies at the very start of the game.

Phil: And you basically shoot them, right?

Phil: Because it comes up on a screen.

Phil: It says, shoot the enemy, right?

Phil: And so you shoot them.

Phil: It's the very first blood of the game.

Phil: And you don't have to shoot them, as it turns out, right?

Tom: Actually, technically though, which party are you referring to?

Tom: Are you referring to the very first battle with the people on the bus?

Phil: Yep.

Tom: What happens if you don't shoot them there?

Tom: Did you find out?

Phil: No.

Phil: But I do know that it is optional because in the both cases...

Tom: Because I waited a long time and I think they started shooting at us.

Phil: Right.

Tom: So I think you do have to shoot them then.

Phil: Right.

Phil: I'm not sure.

Phil: I'm told that you don't have to shoot them, but in my two playthroughs you're compelled to shoot them.

Phil: And it turns out...

Tom: Maybe they just shoot you for a while then give up.

Tom: Right.

Phil: And the fact of the matter is as a part of the story, basically as a part of the story, you're a three-man squad who is sent into Dubai, right?

Phil: Now Dubai, of course, is that architectural phenomenon in the Middle East which is basically like the Las Vegas of the Middle East, except a thousand times better, a thousand times better, a thousand times bigger.

Phil: And there's been some form of natural disaster in the terms of a sandstorm.

Phil: So the US sends their general, you know, their top guy from Afghanistan, who's on his way home, he either decides on his own or the government sends him to go in there with his squadron, basically.

Tom: The rd.

Phil: The rd.

Phil: Now, since then, no one has heard from him or anyone in the region.

Phil: And there is some mystical, spiritual quality to this.

Phil: This is where the spooky stuff comes into the game, that there's this huge sort of sandstorm and the vengeance of God and all the rest of it.

Phil: Because Dubai is so aberrant to Muslim culture and all the rest of it.

Phil: So basically, this war hero, this general, this Schwarzkopf type, takes the rd squad in as a rescue mission to save the civilians out of Dubai.

Phil: But no one has heard of him.

Phil: So the government, not knowing what to do, sends in this special ops team to see what's going on.

Phil: You, playing the Nolan North character, basically have had previous experience with the big guy, the big general, Conrad.

Phil: And you have tremendous admiration for him.

Phil: And basically, what you're struggling with throughout the game...

Tom: They were in love, let's put it that way.

Phil: Yeah, they were in love.

Phil: And basically what you're struggling with throughout the game is you see that Conrad has basically become a small dictator of Dubai.

Phil: And that he's overseen some very cruel and genocide type stuff.

Phil: But because of your love for him or your admiration for him, you can't believe it.

Tom: Love and admiration.

Phil: Love and admiration.

Phil: So you're telling your squad mates the whole time, no, Conrad wouldn't do this, Conrad wouldn't do that.

Phil: We've got to find Conrad, he'll tell us the truth.

Phil: Now at a certain point in the game, you use the real world chemical white phosphorus on what you think is a bunch of enemies.

Phil: And it turns out that you're using it on a bunch of civilians.

Phil: Now this is basically the worst form of biochemical warfare that you can imagine.

Phil: And it basically calcifies people.

Phil: Now as you're playing this game, it is a vision of Modern Warfare where basically you're just seeing everything in black and white.

Phil: You know, you're up in an airplane, you're overlooking it, and you're just dropping these bombs.

Tom: It's in the vein of a drone attack.

Phil: In the vein of a drone attack, where you're completely depersonalized, disassociated with the harm that you're doing.

Phil: So, but you think you're killing these guys.

Phil: You really don't have a choice.

Phil: You have to do this.

Phil: Regardless of what you do, you have to use this white phosphorus on the enemies that you're seeing before you.

Phil: So you're seeing it from the air using these drones, and then you have to walk through them.

Phil: And you see your enemies, and then you realize that these people were actually US soldiers who had set up a humanitarian camp for civilians.

Phil: And so you basically just killed a bunch of US soldiers who were taking care of a bunch of civilians.

Tom: Very good.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And at that point, the lead protagonist is affected.

Phil: Now, you don't know that, right?

Phil: Further things happen that are more disturbing.

Tom: You do quite know that at the time due to the acting and script.

Phil: Right, the character becomes more agitated, but you don't know that he's hallucinating or seeing things falsely.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: At that point, Conrad starts to communicate with the main character, and the point is that...

Tom: Except, and this is probably not deliberate, but an error.

Tom: I think, at that stage, that was already where I thought it was going because of the setup with the main stage artist was in the helicopter scene around then.

Tom: You know, he puts on classical music, Beethoven, I can't remember what song it was exactly, and starts singing along with it, right?

Tom: Now, this may or may not have been deliberate, but it led me to believe this, not only due to the tone, but it seemed like where the story would be headed considering this due to how over the top and slightly out of sync, out of tone, with how the music had been used before and also the script and speech of a radio man, right?

Phil: Well, in retrospect, I mean, the speech of the radio man is, you know, Good Morning Vietnam and all the rest of it.

Phil: Whenever you're using music in a visual form, it is always overstated.

Phil: You can't, I mean, you're saying, and we're going to play this and this scene because, I mean, you can't help but do it.

Phil: I defy you to make a film and use licensed music and not have it be ham-fisted.

Phil: You can't do it.

Tom: I'm not saying the music was ham-fisted.

Tom: I'm saying what was ham-fisted was him beginning to sing along with it in the way that he did.

Tom: And the point here, though, is that that's not what I'm complaining about.

Tom: What I'm pointing out here is simply that it led me to believe that this was where it was going towards because, one, either, once again, we'd already been getting into his head to a degree that he's going to be going along with this delusion to fan Conrad, right?

Tom: At that state, that was already present.

Tom: So, at that stage, I thought either he was, the guy wasn't actually singing along to the music like that, or, due to the over-the-topness of it, they were then going to, in fact, go to more overtly obvious illustrations of stuff like PTSD using hallucinations and that sort of thing, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, from that point on, like the first part of the game, the protagonist is defending Conrad, saying, don't worry, guys, this looks bad, but when we get to Conrad, he'll have an answer.

Phil: After the White Buster, it flips.

Phil: And the lead protagonist...

Phil: They've got to kill that bastard.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: The main protagonist now, unable to accept that he has become Conrad, he has become this evil person, is now like, we're going to find Conrad and make him pay, right?

Phil: And it's not as black and white as that, or black and white phosphorus as that, but it does start to play out.

Phil: There are...

Phil: That was a disturbing scene, in that you see the mother clasping to the child, for which there's a callback later.

Phil: I think the next most disturbing scene in this is when a...

Phil: Basically, the three of you are doing crowd control, and there's a bunch of civilians who are basically trying to hang one of your friends.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: They haven't even hanged him, or in the process of hanging him.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And you find them, and you basically have the choice of firing a warning shot in the sky.

Phil: And again, this isn't done bullshit like Fable style, or Bioshock style.

Phil: It doesn't say, do you want to shoot in the air, or do you want to shoot the civilians?

Phil: You basically have the choice.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know you have the choice.

Phil: You're met with a situation, you know, you can fire shots in the air to clear out the area, or you're fucking pissed off and you can take revenge and fucking mow these civilians down.

Tom: See now, here's an interesting point though, because I in fact fired shots in the air and it did nothing.

Phil: No, I've seen the YouTube of this and you can fire shots in the air.

Tom: Did you have to shoot a lot?

Tom: Because that's bizarre.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yeah, you do.

Phil: Because otherwise they don't take you seriously.

Phil: You have to fire like several shots in the air.

Phil: Like you, I fired a couple of, I went bam, bam, bam, like, you know, thinking that would clear them out.

Phil: And when that didn't, I said, well, fuck you guys anyway.

Phil: And I just mowed them down.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: There is an achievement either way.

Phil: So there is a pivotal point where you can choose to kill all the civilians or most of the civilians or fire a warning shot and clear out the area.

Phil: And if you just want-

Tom: I just like to point out, by the way, for anyone listening out there, I in fact killed no one.

Tom: It was all the black guy.

Tom: I shot one person in the knee, then he mowed everyone down.

Phil: No one believes that.

Phil: The next most disturbing thing in the game is when you get to DJ.

Phil: And to me, this one came, this was a monster closet for me.

Phil: This came completely out of the blue.

Phil: Was it for you as well when your compatriot shot the guy in the head?

Phil: No, you were expecting that?

Phil: Really?

Phil: How did they tip that off?

Tom: I don't think they tipped it off.

Tom: I think it was fitting in with the character because at that stage, he'd been getting pretty pissed off as well.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: And was really annoyed with the radio man and all that sort of bullshit.

Phil: And there was lots of, keep in mind too, we should tell people that amongst your AI characters, there's lots of over time infighting between the right thing to do, the wrong thing to do.

Phil: And there's a character, different characters are wearing down.

Phil: All characters are wearing down.

Phil: It's just a matter of which way they're biasing.

Phil: That to me was probably the, I mean, you talk about someone, a mother and child with white phosphorus.

Phil: You talk about shooting civilians.

Phil: I was genuinely surprised when he shot that DJ.

Tom: I wasn't, but it was a very well done scene.

Tom: Now.

Phil: After that, there's a helicopter scene.

Tom: I just want to say something on that.

Tom: So here's, first of all, back to the hanging scene, right?

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I thought that really suffered from the lack of budget compared to a high budget game because the civilians looked so unbelievable.

Tom: I mean, you needed to be probably more caught up in the story than I was.

Tom: It would have worked, but as it was, it just looked pretty stupid, right?

Tom: Maybe that was a slight exaggeration.

Phil: I was pretty caught up in the story.

Phil: And again, I'm watching it, remember, on a TV, on a couch from six feet away.

Tom: But here's the other thing about that scene is, I thought, it works out well enough by the end, but I thought it was somewhat of a poor decision to kill Lugo there because after the radio scene, it makes it too obvious that he has to then die within the story before either Walker or the black guy dies, right?

Phil: No, I don't know.

Phil: I mean, I agree with you in retrospect.

Phil: Yes, it does because there's got to be a tit for tat, eye for an eye.

Phil: You know, you got to punish the guy that acted out.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: You know, but I didn't ever really realize that until you...

Phil: It's obvious now that you pointed it out.

Phil: But when you're playing the game, it's like when you're watching a movie, you know, you watch a movie and you're caught up in it.

Phil: And it's only when you're driving home, you're like, eh, wait a second.

Phil: What about that guy in the trench coat, you know?

Phil: So, yeah.

Tom: And one other thing about the white phosphorus scene though, was I thought far more effective than the woman and the child was the fact that they simply had you doing it from the perspective of the drone.

Tom: And...

Phil: Yes.

Tom: But, with that having said though, at the same time, I'm not a fan of that because there's two problems with this.

Tom: One, it is % entirely reliant because they didn't sell it enough for it to work on its own.

Tom: It's entirely reliant on your own perception of this action from other sources of culture.

Phil: Which they specifically...

Phil: The writer specifically said this was a editorial response to the scene in Call of Duty where they give you control over whatever it was.

Phil: I didn't think it was a drone in Call of Duty

Phil: But they said that they took what was the high point of Call of Duty which is you are an all-powerful god dealing out your damage.

Phil: They specifically wanted to show the other side of that.

Tom: Yeah, but my point being here is, and once again this is not a huge criticism of the game, just a personal taste thing, is that's all well and good.

Tom: But if you then link it to the scene with the mother and the child, you then need to sell the previous scene better.

Tom: Because all you're doing is you're copying the scene in Call of Duty, then disingenuously showing the consequences.

Tom: But when it's actually happening, you're not accurately representing the situation.

Tom: And your comment on it, I think-

Phil: What's disingenuous about it?

Tom: I'm about to get to that.

Tom: Your comment on it is perfect, I think.

Tom: You said, and correct me if I'm paraphrasing too much, right?

Tom: I can't remember the wording exactly, but basically, due to controlling a drone, and you're looking down and just shooting people, it's less personal.

Tom: Can you remember how you said it?

Tom: Because you said it a lot better than I did.

Phil: Well, yeah, there's a certain separation there.

Tom: Well, here's the thing, okay?

Phil: Depersonalize it.

Tom: Yeah, in reality, there isn't necessarily.

Tom: That is, as far as I can see, not actually true in reality.

Phil: No, I know.

Tom: Yeah, so this is just a personal tasting.

Phil: I'm pro drone, trust me.

Phil: If it means protecting, you know, people who look like me and speak English like me, against people who wish to do harm against people who look like me and speak like me, I'm all for drones.

Phil: When you put a special ops person on the line who's wearing to thousand dollars of specialty equipment, right?

Phil: And giving him weapons and night vision and all the rest of it.

Phil: And he's shooting, you know, the enemy who has nothing but, you know, an assault rifle from

Phil: You can't tell me that that's any less depersonalized.

Phil: You know?

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: I mean, it's not.

Phil: So I don't know what the larger point here is.

Phil: All I'm saying is that in my prior point and saying that they were trying to, the point that these game developers are trying to make is that, hey, you played Call of Duty therefore you're culpable of war crimes, right?

Phil: That's an invalid point.

Phil: It is invalid because for the rest of the game, you are a guy who's carrying around $worth of military tech, shooting people who have no chance of fighting back against you.

Tom: Are you saying that was my point or their point?

Phil: That's your point and that's my point.

Tom: Okay.

Phil: You know, I'm saying that there is certainly, whenever someone wants to go into Pius Town, as much as the writers of this game did, they're not being anti-war.

Phil: I mean, the overall theme of this isn't anti-war.

Phil: It's more about the consequences of choices, right?

Phil: And that, and delusion.

Phil: Those are the two key themes of this game.

Phil: It's not like, oh, war sucks.

Phil: We shouldn't have games like Call of Duty

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: That's not the point.

Phil: But to put drones on a different level than what a usual Spec Ops person is carrying around, is entirely ridiculous.

Phil: Because basically you're talking about high tech versus low tech.

Tom: Exactly.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So your point is valid if I've interpreted correctly.

Tom: Probably about right.

Phil: Have we talked about enough of this game or do we want to spoil the ending too?

Tom: Let's spoil the ending.

Phil: Okay.

Tom: Hold on, wait one second.

Tom: Just the point I've made before was, and back to the choices, which were, and this was tied to the ending, but leading to it better than starting the ending, I think.

Tom: The great thing about the choices, and you can say what you think of this interpretation, my basic interpretation was generally that the point of the choices were to simply show that there was in fact no choice involved, right?

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah, which I think is by far thematically the greatest use of any sort of choices in a game.

Phil: Which is also a comment on the role of the...

Phil: If Conrad was...

Phil: If Walker was in the regular military, it's the same thing.

Phil: People in the military have a choice about a huge range of things, but ultimately they don't get to decide how the war is...

Tom: That's right...

Phil: .

Phil: is fought, right?

Phil: And we should say that, okay, so after the White Phosphorus, Walker switches, something in his head switches, and he's like, okay, instead of finding Conrad to explain, we're going to find Conrad and he's going to pay.

Phil: So after the killing of civilians, after the hanging, from that point on, the writer says that the game is completely, not delusional, but from that point on, everything in the game, you can assume that Walker is, gosh, what's the word, dreaming, basically.

Phil: That he's in a haze, right?

Phil: That he starts to lose it at the white flash first.

Phil: Once they shoot the civilians or don't shoot the civilians after his friend is hung because of his action or inaction, he can't really win.

Phil: From that point on, he's completely delusional.

Phil: Now, as it turns out, Conrad is dead.

Phil: Conrad has been dead for several weeks.

Tom: Wait, one second.

Tom: So would you say that is more a comment on war than games?

Phil: A comment on...

Tom: Or just life in general?

Phil: I think it's just more sticking to the source material, Heart of Darkness.

Phil: So basically, at that point...

Tom: So you wouldn't say they're making a statement themselves?

Phil: No, I wouldn't.

Phil: Conrad, at that point, is communicating with Walker.

Phil: And that is all in Conrad's...

Phil: All in Walker's mind.

Phil: So basically, the game culminates with Walker going to the top of this hotel in Dubai to Conrad's suite and speaking with Conrad.

Phil: Conrad's been dead, clearly, for over a month.

Phil: And then they have a quick flashback where they show a series of shots where you see that the walkie-talkie that Walker was using didn't have wires that were connected.

Phil: He was delusional the entire time.

Phil: So when he saw people that were hanging, that were alive, that he wanted to shoot down, they'd been dead for a long time, and on and on and on.

Phil: They basically show you, and this is where your choices do make a difference.

Phil: Based on the choices you made in the game, it affects the still shots they show you in that sequence.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And so at this point you're completely screwed.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So there are at that point two possible endings.

Phil: You can choose to shoot Conrad or you can choose to shoot yourself.

Tom: Well, technically, if you choose to not shoot yourself, then you shoot yourself after the cut scene ends or after the game play ends.

Phil: Right.

Tom: I don't think there's a way.

Tom: So actually, maybe it is possible, in fact, to shoot yourself because there is a mirror image of you present which you can aim at, so.

Phil: You can shoot the mirror, you can shoot Conrad or you can shoot yourself.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Which did you do, by the way?

Phil: So, after the credits roll, basically, we find our hero Walker wearing Conrad's uniform in the middle of the desert, and a Humvee pulls up and they say, hey, we've identified Walker, he's here, right?

Phil: And Walker's brandishing a gun.

Phil: And at this point, you're given a further choice.

Phil: You can drop your weapon.

Phil: I mean, at this point, you're emotionally crushed because the ending of this game, getting up to the top floor of the hotel and finding Conrad, and you're talking to him for a while and he's painting a picture and the pictures of the mother with the child that you killed in the white phosphorus.

Phil: It's so emotionally disjarring.

Phil: I won't say moving, it's disjarring.

Phil: And you get to it and then you're like just shooting and you're not really even sure what you're shooting, you know?

Phil: And now the credits roll and now you're in the desert.

Phil: And a Humvee pulls up and it's a very American, very standard CNN type setting.

Phil: It's like, yeah, we've identified a target, walkers here, blah, blah, blah.

Phil: And they approach him in a cop-like manner, like, are you going to cooperate?

Phil: Are you not?

Phil: And at that point, you have the choice of dropping a weapon, which is what I did.

Phil: And he evacuates with the patrol and as you're driving away, the soldier remarks that the unit's driven through the entire city looking for him, coming across the results of his actions.

Phil: And when asked how he survived, walker says, who said I did?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: See, what happens if you shoot them?

Tom: Is there enough that you can kill them all?

Phil: If walker, you can shoot them.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Right.

Phil: And if you die in the fight, you're going to be shown lying in a pool of blood.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And at that point, they flash back to a conversation between walker and Conrad during the prior war in Afghanistan, in Kabul.

Phil: And as the patrol gathers around his dying body, walker remembers talking about returning home and Conrad says, we can't go home, there's a line men like us have to cross.

Phil: If we're lucky, we do what's necessary, then we die.

Phil: Which I think is probably the best ending.

Phil: Of course it is, because the protagonist dies, right?

Tom: Well, he dies in the other one as well.

Phil: Well, if he manages to kill the entire patrol, which is awesome too.

Phil: I mean, what a great tribute to the player that they let you kill all these...

Phil: I mean, you're killing American soldiers throughout the game.

Phil: Most of the people you kill are American soldiers or CIA agents, which is another amazing thing how this game got published.

Phil: But if you're so fucking kick-ass that you do manage to kill the entire patrol, he picks up the radio in their Humvee and calls back to home base and says, gentlemen, I'm walking to Dubai.

Phil: Which is the first thing that we heard from him in the game, and it's the first thing that the dead Conrad said to Walker.

Phil: I mean, that's an ending.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, I'd say the best ending as far as sticking with his character would be him killing himself.

Tom: Because he does realize his actions at the end then, no matter what you do.

Tom: Before that, it had the internal dialogue.

Tom: So considering his character, up to that point, it seemed more fitting that he kills himself there.

Tom: Or at the same time, you could make more of an argument of him then killing the troops at the end.

Tom: But the other one putting the weapon down doesn't seem to fit the character as well to me.

Phil: But it's what I did.

Phil: Is it what you did?

Tom: No.

Tom: What I did was nothing.

Tom: So he killed himself.

Phil: At the end of that game, after that scene with Conrad, I just wanted to go home.

Phil: I didn't care.

Phil: And when you see him in the Vietnam era Conrad uniform, it's just like, take me home.

Phil: I'm done.

Tom: Here's the thing about that choice, though.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: No, keep going.

Tom: Go on.

Tom: I was going to say, that choice and one earlier on where Gul, right, is being held captive, right?

Tom: Now, both those choices, and there might have been another example also, but I can't, these are just good enough examples, didn't work at all as well for me compared to the choices where it wasn't telling you blatantly, this is a choice, you can do this or this, right?

Tom: It just seemed too gamey.

Phil: Well, they never tell you, they never give you an option.

Tom: They do with the good one.

Tom: Do they?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: When he's getting interrogated?

Tom: The black guy is saying, come on, we can go and save the civilians.

Phil: But that's just voice, that's just video.

Tom: But it's the same thing, it's exactly the same thing.

Phil: It's not, it's not the same thing.

Phil: It is.

Phil: It's not, it's not the same as something that comes up and says A or B, press A to do this, press B to do that.

Tom: But it is exactly the same as picking a dialogue option.

Phil: I agree that when you're talking about obvious decisions being there, I knew before I acted at every pivotal point in this game, no, no.

Phil: Yes, in every pivotal point.

Phil: There are many trivial points where they don't signpost it, but in every pivotal point, I knew that I was making a decision, right?

Phil: So like when I did shoot the civilians, I knew that there was...

Phil: Most people wouldn't know there was an option to shoot in the air.

Phil: But because I'm such a freaking hippie, you know, I wanted to not harm these people, right?

Phil: But you're right, they do signpost it.

Tom: Well, that's the thing.

Phil: It's a game.

Tom: It's a game.

Tom: It's an interactive game.

Phil: You're interacting.

Tom: Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

Tom: But see, it's not so much the signposting, it's when they signpost it and there's nothing else as well.

Tom: So, for example, the civilian scene.

Tom: It implies that you've got two choices right.

Tom: Shoot them or just wait around and die, basically.

Phil: Honestly, I didn't have a choice.

Phil: I had to wreak vengeance.

Phil: I was so pissed off that I knew it was wrong, but it felt good.

Tom: But there's a point.

Tom: They're okay.

Tom: So you then got the third option of shooting in the air.

Tom: So it then feels like you could have actually done anything.

Tom: And the other good example of that is where they've got the two guys hanging, right, and you've got to choose which one to shoot.

Tom: Now, of course, you don't have to choose which one to shoot.

Tom: You can also kill the snipers, which then results in everyone getting killed.

Tom: But whatever, the point is that sign posted like a game, that says, you can do this or you can do this, right?

Tom: But there's also this third option that you can do.

Tom: Then, though, the thing I mentioned, and once again, if anyone out there is listening, that has found a different way to approach this, please tell us.

Tom: There is literally only those two options.

Tom: So, and this is not going to be a problem in most games.

Tom: I'm not saying this is particularly badly done.

Tom: What I'm saying is that it does not fit with the choices elsewhere and how they are done.

Tom: It's jarring because it is telling you the two things you can do.

Tom: Elsewhere, it tells you the three things you can do, but in reality, there's actually another thing you can do.

Tom: Right?

Phil: Yes.

Tom: Now, the final thing, though, is...

Tom: I don't know if you found this as well.

Tom: This game, for example, the singing along with the music, struggled so badly when they tried to be over the top and more overt in its themes.

Tom: So the thing that just absolutely pissed me off was the messages they give you on loading screens.

Tom: Now, a lot of them were fine.

Tom: A lot of them were great and amusing and accurate parodies of the stuff Call of Duty has you read on loading screens, right?

Phil: So, for example, for our listeners, one of the ones is, how many Americans did you kill today?

Tom: Yeah, that was hilarious.

Phil: So this is when you're loading up a screen and usually they have a helpful hint, right?

Phil: And the helpful hint is, have you tried using Molotov cocktails against zombie characters?

Phil: Right?

Phil: That's what you're used to seeing.

Phil: So at a certain point in the game they switch to giving you these more, quote, subversive messages.

Phil: Your point is they're over the top, right?

Tom: Some of them, not all of them.

Tom: I've got two examples which are just so stupid.

Tom: And this is the reason that at times I couldn't go completely along with the story, but there are times where they're great.

Tom: For example, how many Americans have you killed today?

Tom: That was hilarious, right?

Tom: Then there were these two, and these were just major facepalms to me.

Tom: The first one was after Lugo was killed.

Tom: If Lugo was alive, he'd probably have post-traumatic stress disorder.

Tom: So really, he's the lucky one.

Tom: Now, first of all...

Phil: I never got that one, incidentally.

Tom: Well, they are randomized, presumably, to a degree.

Phil: Presumably, I don't know.

Tom: But yeah, that has been literally demonstrated, but with a degree of minor subtlety in the story.

Tom: That's just an immersion killer to me.

Tom: It's just so incredibly unnecessary.

Phil: I agree.

Phil: Loading screens are immersion killing to start with, and I found even the ones that were, quote, clever, I just thought they were too clever by half.

Phil: It was too cute.

Phil: It was too dumb.

Phil: And, you know, hey, a game can't be perfect.

Tom: Here's the worst one, though.

Tom: The US military does not condone the killing of our land combatants, but this isn't real, so why do you care?

Tom: Now...

Phil: I never got that one either.

Tom: Well, first of all, did you spot the problem with this paragraph?

Tom: Though maybe this was deliberate.

Phil: The US?

Tom: No.

Phil: Army?

Tom: Presumably, it was making a subversive statement about the game itself, right?

Tom: Why would you care, first of all, who you were killing in a game?

Tom: And secondly, but more to the point, by saying that, should you care who you're shooting in a game and if you're shooting anyone in a game, right?

Tom: No?

Phil: No.

Tom: What do you think then?

Phil: No, I agree with you.

Phil: No, no, no.

Phil: I mean, it's pixel on pixel violence.

Phil: It doesn't do anything.

Tom: But, therefore the first part is rather irrelevant to the point.

Tom: If they were to reverse it the other way to the US military does kill unarmed combatants full stop, but this isn't real, so why do you care?

Tom: I think that would work perfectly.

Tom: Because not only does it make a statement you would not expect to see randomly on a loading screen, right?

Tom: Because it's got the interesting linking of the two statements, it could also be interpreted as is this in fact saying that the US military does not kill unarmed combatants, i.e.

Tom: this is not real?

Tom: Which I think perhaps they were going for with how they set out the paragraph, but due to saying the US military does not, I think they needed the stronger punch of coming out with it to begin with.

Phil: You know, it's a cool idea.

Phil: Basically, they should have only had three that were very strong and then randomised them into regular tooltips.

Phil: But I found that overall to be heavy handed, ham fisted, to me it took me out of the game and I just sort of was being too clever by half.

Phil: I mean, does the US kill unarmed combatants?

Phil: I mean, sure they do.

Phil: They kill people on death row all the time.

Phil: We, I'm an American as well as an Australian, we kill people on death row all the time.

Phil: They're not particularly armed when we give them a lethal injection or put them in an electric chair.

Phil: So, I mean, at a certain point, like I said earlier in the podcast, I'm a vegetarian, so I don't see the difference between killing a whale and killing a cow.

Phil: So, when it comes down to killing people, you know, it's a whole...

Tom: I wouldn't eat them.

Phil: I wouldn't eat a dead Iraqi.

Phil: That's the bucks quote I want for...

Tom: Yeah, that's our summation of...

Phil: Game Under...

Phil: Game Under Podcast.

Phil: All right, we're going to move on to news, and we do appreciate you listening this far deep into the podcast.

Tom: And by the way, for the record, I very much like Spec Ops.

Phil: Thank you.

Phil: I mean, it is a good game, is it not?

Phil: And thank me, because I made the game.

Tom: It's basically the mainstream papo of yodemy.

Phil: It is a...

Tom: A game I cannot bear to give a high score.

Tom: I give this a six out of ten, but at the same time, I would never claim that I did not love it as well.

Phil: And perhaps if you had played it on the console, you know, you would have even creeped into liking it a heck of a lot more.

Tom: Maybe you would have got a .

Phil: Well, we thank our listeners for listening to The Game Under Podcast with Tom Towers and Phil Fogg.

Phil: We're going to cut into the news now, and all news in this section is provided by thevgpress.com.

Phil: I'll start off with this, and hopefully you've given us some thought, but all Grand Theft Auto tracks are now available on Spotify for streaming in the US.

Tom: And don't use Spotify, by the way.

Tom: Continue.

Phil: And iTunes.

Phil: So my deck for this story, because at thevgpress.com you can write your own news, was Rush Rush Gimme Yayo, which was a song from Scarface.

Phil: I mean, the first Grand Theft Auto stole heavily from Scarface in terms of its soundtrack.

Phil: My favorite songs, I mean, Rush Rush Gimme Yayo is a great song.

Phil: I love the Russian station, Vladivostok.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Vladivostok in Grand Theft Auto was my absolute favorite station.

Phil: I couldn't get enough of Vladivostok.

Tom: You know what, though, I was disappointed in that.

Tom: They should have had a serving station devoted to TurboFolk.

Tom: And it is some left of Brenner.

Phil: I don't even know what TurboFolk is, but just by your description, TurboFolk, I'm in.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: It probably is like polka, speed polka.

Phil: Is that what it is?

Tom: It's traditional Yugoslavian pop, folk singing with pop music.

Tom: It's awesome.

Phil: That's great.

Phil: And then in Liberty City Stories, the PlayStation it was a PSP game that they put in the PlayStation

Phil: It was a Bollywood station that I absolutely loved.

Tom: That is awesome.

Phil: But unfortunately, because of the PSP, it had a very limited range of songs.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Because they're limited to the UMD.

Phil: Do you have any favorite GTA tracks?

Tom: I'll go game by game of what I played, of the ones I played.

Tom: Grand Theft Auto can't say a song, but all the talk back radio shows on that were the best in the series.

Phil: You know what?

Phil: When you said Grand Theft Auto I started thinking of the Electronica stations.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And I think about when I was driving around in night, and they had those light particle effects.

Phil: The songs just come to mind so incredibly vividly.

Phil: And the talk stations, yeah, with Lazlo.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: We're a great insight into American talk radio.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I think that three had by far the best talk shows on it.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Vice City, Welcome to the Jungle.

Tom: That to me is the most perfect song on the game for when you're deliberately attempting to get to the high star rating.

Tom: It's just perfect.

Tom: I mean, I know it's not as synonymous with the overall aesthetic of the game.

Phil: No, it's not.

Tom: It's just perfect for cop chases.

Phil: Well, it's a perfect song.

Phil: Breaking the Law is the perfect song.

Phil: I don't think that's ever been in any sort of video, a GTA game.

Phil: In fact, it hasn't been in any GTA game.

Tom: So we can make that sound.

Phil: But any Guns N Roses song you want to pick is perfect, really, for any situation, in my view.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Oh, and also, special mention to the Slick Rick song.

Phil: Which one's that?

Tom: Was it children's?

Tom: Sorry, I can't remember which Slick Rick song it was, but there's definitely a Slick Rick song on there, which I listen to a lot.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, our listeners will know what that means.

Tom: And you don't even know who Slick Rick is.

Tom: Tell me you're joking.

Phil: Uh, Citrix?

Phil: It's a...

Phil: Slick Rick.

Phil: Oh, Slick Rick!

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Phil: I think you're saying Citrix, which is a remote access client for Windows.

Tom: No.

Tom: So I think we're up to San Andreas and...

Tom: Oh.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, you've got to go for...

Tom: I can't remember which songs they were in particular, but obviously you cannot choose anything but an EZE or Anti-We Way song.

Tom: God.

Phil: That soundtrack on San Andreas, I just used to drive around.

Phil: I used to...

Phil: Axl Rose DJ'd their classic Rock Station.

Phil: Oh, man.

Phil: What a soundtrack.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And then the hip hop on that is just brilliant.

Phil: It's the kind of game in an iTunes era would never get licensing.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Like these days, you'd never get the soundtrack that they got for San Andreas.

Tom: It's the Paul's Boutique of video game soundtracks.

Tom: Oh, it's brilliant.

Phil: Impossible.

Tom: So GTA IV, once I got to go with Vladivostok as well.

Tom: You can't forget that.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: I love it.

Phil: There's my favorite song on Vladivostok radio.

Phil: The baseline of it is the call of the Pied Magpie, which is an Australian bird, commonly known as the Peewee.

Phil: But there is a song that has a baseline that is based on an Australian bird.

Phil: And it is so clearly...

Phil: That is so clearly what it is.

Phil: And it's maddening to me because it's like...

Phil: Anyway, I love Vladivostok radio.

Phil: So is that where our GTA IV favorite song ends?

Tom: Yep.

Tom: I'd just like to once again reiterate, nobody use Spotify, please.

Tom: Thank you.

Phil: Yeah, because it rips off artists.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: They get like a tenth of a penny per thousand plays.

Tom: Not quite that much.

Tom: Don't be silly.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Well, what's our next story?

Tom: Our next story is the EU release of brain training.

Tom: It was pulled days before release and there has been no reason given.

Tom: You have no new release date.

Phil: This is classic.

Phil: I mean, there's no information beyond the headline on this.

Phil: Clearly, this was an insensitive cultural reference.

Phil: This game has been released in Japan.

Phil: And they're going to bring it out on, let's say on Friday in Europe.

Phil: And on Tuesday, they recall all copies of the game and say it's not coming out.

Phil: It will be coming out later.

Phil: And there's no reason given.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: This is clearly going to be an insensitive cultural reference.

Phil: There's no other reason.

Phil: And unless it's a technical glitch, but I mean, you know, the game was released in Japan and worked fine and all the rest of it.

Phil: I'm assuming they call French people like cheese fuckers or something, you know?

Phil: Or British people like inbred, chinless fuckwits.

Phil: You know?

Phil: Because you know how much the Japanese hate like every other culture, like the most racist people on the planet.

Phil: You know?

Phil: It has to be something insanely racist that got by all QA until a British person was playing this and like, what is this about?

Phil: Yeah, right, someone at Eurogames is like, what the fuck?

Phil: You know?

Phil: They call up Nintendo and go, you might want to know about this.

Phil: In English, this means something distinctly different from what you think it does.

Phil: It's the only explanation, right?

Tom: Yeah, so what you're saying is they pulled it from the least to remove the best part about the game.

Phil: Of course.

Phil: I mean, Microsoft has done this before with any game that has an inconsequential Muslim reference gets pulled.

Phil: Microsoft had that fighting game that got pulled because of that.

Phil: The first cut of Aladdin was retracted because of that.

Phil: Things like that.

Tom: So technically they did give a reason, by the way.

Tom: And this was...

Tom: Nintendo has made the decision to push back the release date of Dr.

Tom: Kawashima's devilish brain training, can you say, focused for Nintendo DS to optimize the best possible launch timing of this title within the European market.

Phil: Fuckhead, I've read the same article as you.

Phil: That's not a reason.

Tom: It is.

Tom: It's their fake PR reason.

Tom: They pushed it back so that they can release it at a better date.

Phil: I'm not saying it's a genuine reason.

Tom: That is a lie.

Tom: I'm saying they gave a reason.

Phil: Alright.

Phil: That's not a reason.

Phil: Oh, we were going to bring it on Friday, but we want to optimize our release.

Tom: Well, that was my point, if you were paying attention.

Phil: Well, your point is pointless.

Phil: Speaking of pointless, a former BioWare boss has said, quote, Jade Empire would have been a massive launch game.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Now, have you played Jade Empire?

Tom: Yes, I have.

Phil: It's Jade Empire, not a massive...

Tom: No.

Phil: You know, first of all...

Tom: Code War might have been massive.

Phil: Code War would have been massive.

Phil: Jade Empire was a wank of BioWare, where they basically, like...

Phil: They did the Star Wars licensing for a game.

Phil: They let Obsidian do the sequel, and Jade Empire was always a dream of theirs to do.

Phil: And they basically had the money to do it, so they did it, you know.

Phil: And they released it, and I played it, and it was shit.

Tom: It was awesome.

Tom: What are you talking about?

Phil: It was shit.

Phil: It was shit like all Bioware games are shit.

Phil: It was completely unbalanced.

Tom: So as long as you're not saying it was shitter than Kotor.

Phil: Oh, no.

Phil: No, no, no, no.

Phil: You know, like Mass Effect was shit.

Phil: The first Mass Effect game was shit, so the same way Jade Empire was shit.

Tom: So it was shit and awesome, is what you're saying.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: It was like a luxury car, like a Ferrari.

Phil: You know, you know all these high-end luxury cars, right?

Phil: You know, like I got a new Ferrari the other day, for example.

Phil: And they look great.

Phil: They have great engines, but the windows leak.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: You know?

Phil: That's a Bioware game where they overstretch on the big things and they don't pay attention to the details necessarily.

Tom: So what you're saying is you should have got a Mercedes.

Phil: Exactly.

Phil: Something that's, you know, reliable and proven and they...

Phil: If you have to make, you know, a couple hundred thousand of something, it's going to be good.

Phil: But my point is, this is ridiculous.

Phil: This guy's saying, oh, it would have been a massive launch title.

Phil: Well, yeah.

Phil: You know, any RPG that comes out at launch is going to be massive because there aren't that many RPGs at a launch usually because they do take a heck of a lot of resources and time and everything else, you know, to develop.

Phil: This is a silly thing to say.

Phil: It was probably a question he was asked.

Phil: He was probably just answering.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I still question whether it would have been that massive, maybe compared to other launch games, but...

Phil: Well, look at Perfect Dark, whatever that was called, right?

Phil: Perfect Dark Zero, right?

Phil: That was a massive launch.

Phil: Why?

Phil: Because it was, you know...

Tom: But Perfect Dark also has the Perfect Dark name.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Tom: Jade Empire was never massive at all.

Phil: No, no.

Phil: And the other thing is everyone knows...

Phil: And I'm not being flippant here.

Phil: Asian lead characters don't sell in the West.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: I mean, prove me wrong out there.

Phil: Sleeping Dogs is probably the closest we've got.

Phil: And hopefully this is changing.

Phil: But up until this point, games that aren't set in the US and games that have non-white characters don't necessarily sell.

Tom: I think more to the point, as Japan has proven, Asian characters also don't sell in Japan.

Phil: Oh, really?

Phil: I mean, Yakuza sells pretty good in Japan.

Tom: There's Yakuza, but nothing else.

Phil: Well, next in the news, iFixit tears down their Oculus Rift.

Phil: Basically, they got this virtual reality goggle set and they broke it down.

Phil: There's nothing really more to it than the pictures.

Phil: But basically, it's a cheap processor and a cheap video card.

Phil: It has two monitors inside of ski goggles.

Tom: Sounds like it.

Phil: I mean, apparently it works fine.

Phil: Everyone who played it at Elast year pre-ordered a set.

Phil: I think, virtual reality, first of all, what's your take on it?

Phil: What's your take on this whole goggle thing?

Tom: I cannot imagine that I would be able to use it.

Tom: I imagine my eyes would literally melt if I attempted it.

Phil: Yeah, well, I can't even play the DS.

Phil: I mean, like, I'm famous for having only played my DS at this point for seven minutes.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And I haven't played it.

Phil: I haven't touched it since.

Phil: I think it's a complete piece of shit.

Phil: I have the XL, I should note.

Phil: That's why it's a piece of shit because it's too heavy and the larger screens overpixelate images.

Tom: So it's not fault entirely.

Phil: And the D is a joke.

Phil: In fact, the D film over the top screen ruins what would otherwise be a nice screen.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: I just wanted to say, if you hate it so much, you're welcome to send it to me.

Phil: Well, actually, unfortunately, the little lady is playing Disgaea on it.

Tom: Damn.

Tom: So she's never going to be finished with it.

Phil: It's manacled to her wrist.

Phil: She's played it over hours as it is.

Tom: And she's got about left.

Phil: So what I'm thinking is, like, virtual reality me, I've never gotten it.

Phil: I've never gotten the appeal of it.

Phil: I don't think the holodeck is within our reach.

Phil: For someone who's younger than me, like yourself, is virtual reality an appeal to you?

Tom: Virtual reality as in the form of holodeck would be interesting.

Tom: Otherwise, I don't see the point of it.

Tom: It basically simply boils down to motion controls and tracking with your head instead of...

Tom: It seems ultimately pointless in that form.

Tom: But if it's something like a holodeck, I don't know, that's more interesting.

Phil: Yeah, but we're not there.

Phil: I mean, it's like time travel, right?

Tom: In this form, it just seems...

Tom: If you've got a lot of money just to waste on random stuff to see how it is, it might be interesting, but it doesn't seem as if it would have a lasting appeal beyond that.

Phil: It just seems like a really expensive sex toy.

Phil: Is that, okay, so you're going to spend how much and you're going to go to what limits to achieve this when you could just use what people have been using for the last millennia to get to the same point?

Phil: I think virtual reality appeals to the same generation of people who thought that multimedia was going to be the next big thing.

Phil: When CDs came out, I'm just slightly younger than that and so I'm like, I don't get it.

Phil: And so I was interested to see if anyone else gets what the Oculus Rift is going for.

Phil: I don't want to put snow goggles on my head to play a game that's going to make me nauseous.

Tom: Yeah, same here.

Phil: In other news, PC shipments post the biggest quarterly decline on record and a lot of people are blaming Windows for this.

Phil: Windows is a complete, I'm using Windows

Phil: And basically Windows is two things.

Phil: It's Windows and then they've added their phone interface to the front of it, which gets in the way of your normal operation of Windows

Phil: Using third-party software, freeware, you can download it so that you never have to see Windows you know, the Metro style stuff, which is completely useless.

Phil: But I don't think Windows is the reason for the decline in PC sales.

Phil: I don't think the average guy who has an old computer who walks into a big box store is saying, oh, I'll hold off for Windows because it's only going to get worse.

Tom: Well, I mean, to me, the logical reason behind it is the fact that, first of all, saturation of PCs is eventually going to go beyond the rising population, right?

Tom: So at some stage you'd be expecting it to naturally decline anyway.

Tom: Apart from that, my PC was bought in right?

Tom: Now, it was not high-end then.

Tom: It was designed to be as powerful as possible with spending the least amount of money.

Tom: So it was comparable to high-end tech, but wasn't high-end, right?

Tom: It's now, what, five years later, and apart from the fact that I can play any game presently released at perfectly reasonable settings and at a reasonable resolution, I'm also easily able to use basically any intensive software.

Tom: Since dual-core and quad-core processors have been released, basically even cheaper PCs from a long time ago are perfectly capable of doing pretty much everything.

Tom: This did not used to be the case, as far as I can remember.

Phil: Well, Moir's lore has been doubled because of quad-core processors and dual-core processors and all the rest of it.

Phil: So the advancements in software can't keep up with the hardware, which we've known for about four years now.

Tom: Which is logically then going to result in people buying less PCs because they don't need to replace their old one.

Phil: Right, right.

Phil: And more solid-state parts so you don't have wear and tear.

Tom: Upgrading is much easier as well.

Phil: Upgrading is much easier.

Phil: And everything is going towards more uniformity.

Phil: I mean, we're seeing that in the console market too.

Phil: You know, if everyone is using off-the-shelf parts.

Tom: And of course, there's also the more powerful mobile devices as well which people can use in place of a PC.

Tom: Or would they be factoring those sales into this?

Phil: No, they don't factor those sales into it.

Phil: And that's largely what they're saying.

Phil: I mean, since I got a smartphone, like a little Samsung Galaxy S, you know, I'm turning on my computer less because I can check my email, I can check on vgpress.com, I can check the weather, I can check sports scores without going to my computer.

Phil: And, you know, even more so if someone has a tablet.

Phil: I was at Oldby today and they have a $Android -inch tablet, you know.

Phil: And but for the fact that I spent several hundred dollars this week on various things, I would have bought that.

Tom: Just faulty microwaves?

Phil: Well, faulty microwaves or, you know, what's that?

Tom: Domain names.

Phil: Game Under.

Phil: Game under.net.

Phil: You know, I would have bought that without hesitation.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And that would have basically turned my PC into a thing that I go to when I want to type into the VGpress or when I want to play games.

Phil: Right?

Tom: So what does it become APS?

Phil: Which is what, or a PS Vita, you know.

Phil: And that's what's killed sites like GameSpot from their heyday is that people are viewing the content now on non-interactive formats.

Phil: You're right.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: And they're getting their social itch scratched from, you know, Facebook and things like that.

Phil: I mean, this is just the way it's going to be.

Phil: PCs are going to decline.

Phil: Who wants to buy a monitor and a keyboard and a big old box when most people can just browsing the web and they're not contributing?

Phil: The way that we and the people of the VGpress do, right?

Phil: So most people are more than happy just to sit back and just take in what other people are consuming.

Phil: Listeners, we love you.

Tom: The anonymous many.

Tom: Yes.

Tom: Moving on.

Tom: The last news story I believe is that the Metroid devs were working on a Bomberman first person shooter.

Phil: What do you mean the Metroid devs?

Phil: The guys in Austin?

Tom: What?

Tom: Yep.

Phil: For Konami, but aren't they owned by Nintendo?

Tom: No, they're working on it for Capcom, not Konami.

Phil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

Phil: Obviously.

Phil: Kinji Inafune, Capcom.

Tom: Right.

Phil: I'm confused because the ridiculousness of the screenshots I saw from that French video.

Phil: Correction.

Tom: Presumably this was under a different company.

Tom: It was ex-Metroid devs, sorry.

Phil: Okay, okay.

Phil: Of which there are

Tom: That's right.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Oh, yeah, I worked there.

Phil: I worked there.

Phil: Yeah, okay, good.

Phil: So, it's not retro.

Phil: These screenshots reminded me of Bomberman Act Zero, which was an early Xbox game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which took the sprite-based Bomberman that everyone loved and turned him into this, just one of the worst video games of all time.

Tom: And just to correct myself before, yes, that was a Mega Man, that game they were working on, not Bomberman.

Tom: Did you watch any of the videos?

Phil: No.

Phil: I just saw the screens.

Tom: It looks like any other sort of Corridor of Fury.

Tom: Obviously, this was very early gameplay, so you can't judge if it was going to be a good game or not by that.

Tom: But there was one interesting thing about the gameplay that I saw, which was there's sections where he's basically falling from the sky, right, which seemed % taken straight from MDK and MDK which were very iconic scenes from those two games.

Tom: It's both games loaded with that and are famous for those two scenes.

Phil: I mean, the game doesn't exist, right?

Phil: I mean, you're not moving forward with it.

Tom: It's been canned.

Phil: Yeah.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So that's basically the only interesting thing about it was that it may have been influenced by MDK.

Phil: A defunct game made by Interplay, a defunct studio.

Phil: You know, you have to think that when you look at these Mega Man games, which have, you know, turns them into this D shooter or these Bomberman games that do the same, it's a fundamental failure of Japan to understand the Western market.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which brings us to our feature this week, which is talking about Square Enix.

Phil: Square was, at a certain point during the s, a publisher that could bring out any game and it would garner attention, just on the basis that it was a Square game.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Obviously, these days, that's far different.

Phil: And in fact, if you look at the games that are garnering attention in the West, they're mostly games that are being released under the Eidos label, which was a recent acquisition by them.

Phil: Square recently made the news because during a financial briefing, they said, you know, we're basically changing our projection from a huge profit to a huge loss because when we look at the games we were releasing in the West, Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider, they underperformed.

Phil: And this is shocking to everyone because other than Hitman Absolution, obviously didn't hit.

Phil: That's because it's a dead franchise that had a niche following to start with.

Tom: Yeah, and the reboot was going to appeal to the fans that were there already that much either.

Phil: Yeah, exactly.

Phil: Yep, it was a complete travesty and undercutting of the fans of the original franchise.

Phil: Sleeping Dogs was a game that was dragged out of the dumpster and is a brilliant game.

Phil: When you get around to playing this game, you're going to love it.

Phil: I mean, it's basically stealing the best elements of Yakuza and applying a western pastiche to it, if you will.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Tomb Raider you've played.

Phil: You were generally impressed with it.

Phil: Yep.

Phil: I can't wait to play it.

Phil: It seems like it's uncharted.

Phil: It's probably going to be the best uncharted game release this generation.

Tom: Have you seen if it's on Beacon Service?

Phil: Well, that's pretty narrow for this podcast.

Phil: We'll find out.

Phil: And the bottom line, we'll find out.

Phil: I'll talk about that later.

Phil: But basically they have these two phenomenal games, Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider.

Phil: And they're basically saying, oh, well, the reason why our stock is going to underperform and why we lost all this money is because all these western games we're releasing aren't selling as well as we expected.

Phil: Now, this is the same company that took the biggest franchise in Japan, Dragon Quest, and turned it into an MMO for the slowest selling console at the point that Dragon Quest was released.

Tom: Right?

Phil: They released an MMO on the Wii, which required a monthly fee.

Tom: Right?

Phil: Which was also time limited.

Phil: Like, there was a certain amount of time.

Phil: It doesn't matter.

Phil: But basically, and it sold in the hundreds of thousands, then they released the Wii U version and it sold like

Tom: Right?

Phil: Basically, they took the premier Japanese video game and flushed it down the toilet.

Phil: Right?

Phil: They could have released it for the DS.

Phil: They could have released it for the DS.

Phil: They could have not made it in MMO.

Phil: They could have not charged a monthly fee.

Phil: They could have released it in the West, which they still haven't.

Phil: And they flushed it down the toilet.

Phil: And I think this is just pure Japanese ethnocentricity that they're going to Japanese investors and saying, oh, well, we were going to make money, but we're totally not now because all these Western games for those Western gaijin aren't selling that well.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So we go, okay, Tomb Raider sold something like million.

Phil: Right?

Phil: Terrible sales.

Phil: million.

Tom: Terrible.

Phil: Oh, well, we were expecting it to sell five and six.

Phil: This is clearly stock market bullshit.

Phil: Right?

Phil: They said that Hitman had the potential to sell million.

Phil: Right?

Tom: How?

Tom: Have all the previous Hitman entries even sold that amount?

Tom: Put together?

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: Absolutely not.

Phil: If you look at the fastest selling games, the biggest launches in gaming history, right?

Phil: For example, Halo

Phil: Pretty big, right?

Phil: Pretty big.

Tom: Very big.

Phil: million.

Phil: Right?

Tom: So Tomb Raider beat it.

Phil: Yes.

Phil: Grand Theft Auto

Phil: Pretty big, right?

Phil: million.

Tom: So Tomb Raider beat it.

Phil: Brawl.

Phil: Halo

Phil: million.

Phil: million.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PSOne.

Phil: PlayStation and DS combined.

Tom: And they're complaining.

Phil: Not DS, sorry.

Phil: I'm mistaken.

Phil: It was just PlayStation

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: PlayStation

Phil: And then obviously these have been eclipsed since.

Phil: Go ahead and tell us the more recent update.

Tom: Call of Duty Black Ops oversold.

Phil: The biggest game in the world.

Tom: It sold million copies in a single day.

Phil: Right.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: And they thought that Tomb Raider would sell million in its first month compared to Call of Duty Black Ops

Tom: But when you put it like that, perhaps they were onto something.

Phil: Every mouth breathing or nose breathing citizen of the western world that speaks English bought Call of Duty Black Ops

Phil: Right?

Phil: It sold million copies in its first day.

Phil: Halo pretty big, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Halo again Tomb Raider in its first month, million.

Phil: Halo in its first month, million.

Phil: They were expecting million in the first month.

Phil: They were expecting Tomb Raider to outsell Halo in its first month.

Tom: Yeah, it's mind boggling.

Phil: It's not mind boggling.

Phil: Well, the good news is that the Square Enix is getting a new boss.

Phil: Yoichi Wada was fired and a new guy is in, Yasuki Masuda, and he basically says that the good news about what he's at least claiming is that he's going to look at their business and assets on a zero-based budgeting standpoint, which means that from this point forward, everyone has to justify their existence to, in terms of producing their money, which means we're not going to produce a Dragon Quest MMO just because you're Dragon Quest.

Phil: You're going to have to show us that this works.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: With that, we're moving on to what's happening at The VG Press and LaserLamming.

Phil: The reason why we bring these two sites up is thevgpress.com is where we go as a, you know, it's where we go to connect with the gaming community.

Phil: And it's a great site.

Phil: And LaserLamming is your patron for your published reviews.

Phil: Correct.

Phil: laserlamming.com.

Phil: So what's going on over there?

Tom: So, for this installment of what's happening at the VG Press, we're going to look at Dvader's thread in which he lists games in his backlog and asks users to vote for what he's going to play.

Tom: So, for example, for his first one, he lists the Super Meat Boy, Kirby's Epic Yarn and the original Sly Cooper.

Tom: He went on...

Phil: Which would you have picked?

Tom: I think I picked the original Sly Cooper.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Which would you have picked?

Phil: I would have picked the original Sly Cooper, but they have camera controls that are inverse, both horizontal and vertical, that cannot be changed.

Phil: So, knowing that he's a fan of D platformers, I would have gone with Super Meat Boy.

Tom: Well, I say it's true what he wants to play.

Tom: But neither of those won.

Tom: Kirby's Epic Yarn was the winner, which he hated, by the way.

Tom: Well, rather he thought it was incredibly boring and no challenge.

Phil: So, he could have called it Kirby Epic Yarn.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Exactly.

Tom: Well, he did say put him to sleep, literally, on several occasions.

Tom: Now, in the next one, and I'm sure as you can tell by these most have a theme, so the first one was platforming, the second one is open world games and the list was Saints Row Sleeping Dogs, Just Cause Bully, Assassin's Creed Revelations and Crackdown

Tom: Now, apart from the fact that you wanted to play Bully, I can guess that your choice would otherwise have been Saints Row

Phil: Yeah, walking away with it.

Phil: Sleeping, if I wanted to be sympathetic, I'd say Sleeping Dogs is brilliant and it would be more mind expanding, but no, Saints Row Home and Away, wins.

Tom: Yeah, well, I went for Bully and once again he hated it.

Tom: So moving on, the next is horror theme.

Tom: The options were Silent Hill, Homecoming, Silent Hill, Downpour, The Thing, Dead Island and Deadly Premonition.

Tom: I believe you went for Deadly Premonition?

Tom: Or no, you didn't?

Phil: No, I didn't.

Tom: But would have.

Phil: I was going to join him in playing The Thing with him.

Phil: Deadly Premonition.

Phil: It was too slow.

Phil: Everyone has to play Deadly Premonition.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Everyone.

Tom: I went for The Thing, it's the only one that I played and by played I mean I wandered around in the snow for a while.

Tom: And once again he hated it.

Tom: He enjoyed it at first, then it apparently turned into a terrible, terrible shooter.

Phil: I enjoyed it at first until I got lost in the snow and ran out of oxygen.

Phil: I thought The Thing was atmospherically superior, but gameplay suffered.

Phil: I still want to...

Tom: Can't I enjoy wandering around in the snow?

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: So the next one was third person shooters, oh sorry, just shooters in general.

Tom: First option was Gears of War then Max Payne Bullet Storm, Crisis Rage and Resistance

Phil: Now...

Phil: I've played all these but for Crisis and Resistance

Tom: I think I can guess your choices again.

Phil: Um...

Phil: Oh yeah, of course, Bullet Storm.

Tom: Bullet Storm.

Tom: I on the other hand went for what I imagine would have been your last choice, which is Rage.

Phil: Horrible game.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: The worst game in the...

Phil: I think it was the lowest rated game I played last year.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Well, see, I wanted the...

Tom: success rate of games you hated to continue.

Tom: So I thought that would be the highest chance of it happening.

Tom: But given the quality, seeming quality of many of the games he's played, perhaps that would be the case.

Phil: Yeah, I mean, Bulletstorm is great.

Phil: I would otherwise have recommended Max Payne because that is a great game also.

Phil: Gears of War I beat this year, I have no memory of it.

Phil: I beat it like a month ago.

Phil: It's just one of those games that you play and have no memory of.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: Other than it was perhaps too long, and I have Resistance in a stack yet to play.

Tom: No interesting Crisis ?

Tom: Ah, sorry.

Phil: I'm going to play the Crisis games.

Phil: I got them on Steam.

Phil: When I get to them, I get to them.

Phil: So no priority there.

Phil: I don't have any affinity for them at this point.

Tom: I can vouch for the original and its expansion.

Tom: They're both great.

Phil: Okay.

Phil: Well, you know, as I said, I'm going to get to them eventually, but I can vouch personally for Bulletstorm and Max Payne

Tom: I would actually say...

Phil: Max Payne is brilliant.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: I need to get to it.

Tom: I enjoyed the demo of the first two Max Paynes.

Tom: There is basically no backward shooting.

Tom: In Crysis sorry, Crysis, you can basically play it exactly as you would Doom, which is sprinting throughout the entire level as quickly as you can and shooting everything and not even daring to take a backward step.

Tom: Whereas in Serious Sam, you are often forced into that.

Tom: So look forward to it.

Phil: But before we go into what's going on at laserlabming.com, anything else on Dvader's poll here?

Tom: And this is relevant only to regulars of thevgpress.com now.

Tom: Is it my imagination or recently has he seemed to be a lot harsher on the games he's playing?

Phil: He's never been one to give out s or even s.

Phil: I think this is just a...

Tom: He's given out a lot of s.

Phil: I think this is...

Phil: Yeah, you're right.

Phil: I think this is a consequence of just beating plus games a year.

Phil: At a certain point, nothing is new.

Phil: And I've been that way for the last few years where I've averaged games beaten a year, where at a certain point you're just playing games just to see what people's take on a genre is as opposed to playing it, expecting it to be fun.

Phil: It just becomes an academic exercise.

Tom: A gradual change, though?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: I think there would be certainly a tipping point.

Tom: Okay, because it seems sudden to me.

Tom: I mean, pre-Tomb Raider release, he seemed as enthusiastic as ever.

Tom: Then Tomb Raider came out and the first impressions were generally mostly negative, though he ended up enjoying it.

Phil: I think also he's brought into the group thing of the generation has gone too long.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, you know, rather than going into an experience, when you buy a console at launch, it's like...

Tom: You love everything.

Phil: You love everything.

Phil: This is great.

Phil: Blue Stinger is great.

Phil: You know, Pilotwings is great.

Phil: Oh my God, this is awesome.

Phil: And so was Blue Stinger.

Tom: True.

Phil: So, you know, so you go into it wanting to be convinced otherwise.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: At this point in the generation, he's not for me because I'm still playing, well, he is too.

Phil: You know, we're playing these old games and it's just like I go into it, he's, you know, I think he's going into it going, yeah, show me something different.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: To the point, he's also been burnt because he has a Vita, a Wii U and a DS, the three newest console and obviously all three formats are failing commercially and in terms of creativity.

Phil: The Vita, it's turning into something that old indie games are big on, right?

Phil: The DS is just a pile of shit and the Wii U is something we're not going to talk about.

Phil: So, you know, I think it's a typical, I think it's not a unique, unique take.

Phil: As for Laser Lemming, I was looking over the website today and the most interesting thing I found was your, it's not a review, I mean, usually you write reviews, that's what people know you for.

Tom: And just to fill a record, this is no bias or anything of that sort, the fact that it's written by me.

Phil: No, no, no, no, I mean, I looked over the entire site and...

Tom: Read every single article.

Phil: I did, I did, and review, and this is the one that took my interest and that was your feature on QuickTime Event.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Now, it was a pretty exhaustive article.

Phil: Everyone knows that QuickTime Event started with Dragon's Lair.

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: Unfortunately.

Tom: Which I had to close out the entire screenshot caption to.

Phil: It's arguable that those were real QTEs as we know them today.

Phil: I think most people attribute the Dreamcast game Shenmue as providing real QTEs for the first time, but did Shenmue predate Parappa?

Phil: I don't know.

Phil: Or DDR even.

Phil: And then that's why I wondered if DDR and Parappa are kind of in a different thing because they're providing it in a stream, right?

Phil: QTEs are putting up the button.

Phil: You have to press it that minute, at the minute.

Phil: At that second, you got to press the red A.

Phil: Whereas with DDR, Parappa, the minigames in the GTA series, including Bully, it's a streaming thing where you can see what's coming in advance.

Phil: Yeah.

Phil: So, I kind of put those rhythm games in a different category.

Tom: Well, see, here's the thing.

Tom: In the article, anyway, the point when it comes to rhythm games being that the main separation between them and a QTE is simply the fact that the entire focus of the gameplay is on the QTE, right?

Tom: So it doesn't have another form of gameplay that is the main focus.

Phil: Right.

Phil: In both cases, you're looking solely for the symbol to press.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: Whereas, because you can't necessarily differentiate the two forms of gameplay as you did there because there are, in fact, rhythm games that do, in fact, present the commands as a stream.

Tom: This is probably, for example, one you'd be very familiar with is simply the karaoke in Yakuza, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: Well, the difference there, Tom, is that those DDR Parappa and Yakuza where you've got the karaoke, here's the difference, those are rhythm games and you're required to pay attention to the aural cues, aural A U R A L, right?

Tom: You know, you can listen...

Tom: Also, O R A L would work if there was singing involved, by the way.

Phil: Right, and you can listen and hit the buttons appropriately.

Phil: Whereas with the other QTE games, what it does is it takes the focus away from the cinematics that are going on, the visual that is going on, and basically turns you into a rat in a cage, you know, looking for a button to press, right?

Tom: Absolutely.

Phil: And this is obviously the thing with games like Indigo Prophecy, Slash Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, you know, QTEs are often criticized because they take the focus away from the game.

Phil: You can't really see what's going on on the screen, right?

Phil: And you're basically focusing on what button to press next.

Tom: Is Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain criticized for that much?

Phil: Yeah, I mean, I've heard criticisms of that, certainly, from reviewers.

Tom: Fahrenheit as well or just Heavy Rain?

Phil: Heavy Rain most recently.

Tom: Yeah, because in the case of Fahrenheit, most of the QTEs, due to their simplicity, the prompts actually take place not in the action, so like there's a black bar at the top, and you can see the prompt you're meant to be doing, like wiggling a thumbstick right, is up the top.

Tom: The only major scene I can think of is the boss battle, which I was referring to at the end of the article, where the prompts are more obviously on screen, but they don't really obscure the action all that much, which is mainly due to the intuitiveness rather than the visual design.

Phil: Right, exactly.

Phil: That's the thing that Cage does with both games, is that his QTEs are more intuitive.

Phil: They're more representative of a natural motion that you'd be doing in that.

Phil: Now, as natural as they can be defined down to a, you know, a button controller, right.

Phil: But they are more natural.

Phil: So, if you're brushing your teeth, it's left, right, left, right, that sort of thing.

Phil: Whereas in God of War, which is heavily criticized for this, you know, basically nothing matters other than the QTEs.

Phil: In God of War they did a much better job of it, where they represented the buttons you're supposed to press by their position on the gamepad, which is a total freaking cop-out.

Phil: Now, in your review, you said that, look, you know, QTEs offer a simple way to provide the player with a strong challenge based only on reflex, but it's not on reflex, it's memory, right, because it's not only reflex, because when I was playing Parappa for the first time, it was the game that I bought with my first PlayStation, right?

Phil: So I don't know where triangle is.

Phil: I don't know where square or circle or X is.

Phil: Now, they're tattooed on my brain, but at the time, it was really challenging because I'm like, oh, they want me to press triangle, you have to look down at the controller.

Phil: So when I first got Parappa with my first PlayStation, you know, I didn't know where triangle was, so it's not just a matter of pressing it at the right beat, you also have to look down and figure out where the triangle button is, so it's not just a matter of reflex, it's also memory.

Tom: Which is, by the way, exactly what it said in the article.

Phil: Alright, well, I got to that point and I stopped reading.

Phil: As soon as I found a point where you were wrong, I stopped reading and then moved on to the next paragraph.

Tom: And it turned out it was a point, I was correct.

Phil: Absolutely.

Phil: But what was interesting about your article, it started out talking about boss battles and it ended up talking about boss battles, which of course is what you do in writing, but it was mostly about QTEs.

Phil: How did you get to that point in the article?

Tom: Well, that's what it was always about, basically.

Phil: Boss battles or QTEs?

Tom: Both.

Tom: Because the main hook of the theme is the effect that QTEs, this generation, appear to have had on boss battles and how they are used within the structure of a game, right?

Phil: Right.

Phil: So, I mean, in terms of boss battles, as I was reading it, I was coming to my conclusions prior to you writing them.

Phil: So as you were writing it, I was like, yes, but, and then the next paragraph answered that.

Phil: So for example, the boss battle used to be the narrative climax, right?

Phil: The boss battle was the boss at the end of the game that you had to beat and it was the hardest boss.

Phil: But what we've seen over the last two generations is that the hardest boss is typically not the last boss, but the second to last boss, or even you might even be a boss at past the half point of the game, maybe two thirds into the game.

Phil: And then from there on, it's a trailing story.

Phil: And JRPGs have pretty much held strong on this in terms of just giving you an insurmountable boss at the end.

Phil: But in every other format, the end boss is nice.

Phil: It's more of a story point.

Phil: And then when you do get to the end boss battle, it's usually a QTE.

Phil: And what's interesting about this is one of the most popular franchises of this generation is Uncharted.

Phil: When you get to the end of Uncharted, the original, they give you a stupid gun battle which is insanely harder than anything else you've done in the game.

Tom: Like a light gun battle.

Tom: On rails I mean, sorry.

Phil: Yeah, it's extremely difficult, right?

Phil: They ramp up the difficulty stupidly because it's like, oh, this is the last level so it's got to be hard.

Phil: And then you get to the end boss and basically it's a four point QTE where you punch this guy in the face.

Phil: In the second game they dispensed the QTE and they went with a platforming kind of thing where basically, it's actually a Mario kind of boss.

Tom: But you manage to pass it.

Phil: You figure out the pattern and then once you figure out the pattern it's easy.

Phil: And then in the third game they essentially go back to what you're talking about, which is the second to last boss is the hard boss, then they have the story boss at the end with a simple QTE.

Phil: Which, when you think about it, is kind of funny because that's Uncharted, you know, Uncharted is representative of probably the pinnacle of cynical gaming design, right?

Tom: Cynical or cinematic?

Phil: Cynical.

Phil: So, it's probably the most, well, it's probably the most focus tested, honed, you know...

Tom: Yeah...

Phil: .

Phil: narrowly defined game as it is, and when you see it over the course of this generation going from just straight QTE to Mario going, okay, everyone called us out for our boss last time, we'll go for a traditional boss, which was Ludicrous, it was like a blue glowing alien...

Phil: .

Phil: that you had to sap into.

Tom: Which pissed everyone off again, didn't it?

Phil: Again, yes, and then with the third one, they just went, okay, well, we're going to go with what the focus groups tell us is what people want, which is they have a difficult battle.

Phil: Now, your main enemy in Uncharted is basically Martha Stewart, it's this little old lady, right?

Tom: Yeah.

Phil: So, you know, you can't be like punching her in the face or shooting her, you know, or shooting her in the stomach, we'll say.

Phil: And anyway, it illustrates your point perfectly.

Tom: So, what you're saying is I was right all along, despite all the misgivings at times that were then answered.

Phil: But your conclusion, though, is that even if QTEs have not entirely replaced boss battles, there's no doubt that they're deluding them.

Phil: You know, I'm at the point in my gaming where if I get to the end, I deserve to be rewarded, not rewarded with a challenge.

Phil: And I just want the game to be over at that point.

Phil: So I'm playing Serious Sam and I'm at the end boss.

Phil: And I figure since I got to the end, I deserve to finish the game.

Phil: And instead they've given me what is basically an insurmountable challenge.

Tom: Have you finished it by the way?

Phil: No, I haven't.

Phil: I haven't played it this week.

Phil: I haven't played it since last Saturday.

Tom: So what you're saying is you're part of the problem?

Phil: I guess so, because when I play a game, I want to enjoy it.

Phil: And I guess QTEs are the compromise between the artist saying, well, damn it, you still have to interact with our mediums.

Phil: And the consumer saying, well, I just want to beat the boss.

Phil: Right?

Phil: So the guy says, okay, well, you have to press triangle, square, circle, circle, triangle.

Phil: And I go, okay.

Phil: And now I feel like he feels like I interacted with the game.

Phil: I feel like I'm a badass.

Phil: We both win.

Phil: But all in all, an excellent article.

Phil: So that's at laserlemming.com.

Phil: And probably the best way to find it is just go to laserlemming or google laserlemming.com and press up, down, up, and you'll find the article pretty quickly.

Tom: Which I believe is pretty much all our content.

Phil: Well unfortunately, you know, we're going to have to leave the listeners with a three hour podcast here.

Phil: We did actually cut a lot from the show, believe it or not, folks, and we do appreciate that.

Tom: Yeah.

Tom: And so we're going to first of all, once again, send people over to www.thevjpress.com and www.laserlemming.com.

Tom: And more importantly, visit gameunder.net as well.

Tom: You could also check us out on an RSS feed.

Tom: Now I have never used an RSS feed, so what is involved in that?

Phil: Well basically, the only reason to go to gameunder.net is, you know, we're not obviously competing without the sites that we still go to, like LaserLemming and VGpress, is basically a place holder for the podcast.

Phil: So you can go to gameunder.net to stream the show, where we're going to have, you know, our notes, we're going to have reviews of our, archive of our reviews.

Tom: You can read about Semi Sources Baseball Challenge.

Phil: Semi Sources Softball Slam.

Tom: My apologies.

Tom: My apologies.

Phil: No problem.

Phil: But more importantly, you can subscribe to our blogs over there, that way you're always going to find out when Tom's hit up a new review, or we're going to have a new podcast.

Phil: And we also have an RSS feed for our podcast as well.

Phil: And very soon, I'm in the process of setting up our iTunes subscription as well.

Phil: So just to make it as easy as possible for you guys.

Phil: But all in all, we appreciate it and we thank you for listening.

Tom: And you may be wondering why we didn't cover the Adimorph and Microsoft controversy.

Tom: And that's because as you're about to hear, we did in fact do so in the form of an old western yarn to honky tonk and folk guitar.

Tom: All right.

Phil: And we had a lot of catch up to do.

Phil: We haven't done a show in a long time.

Phil: All right, mate.

Tom: All right.

Tom: See you.

Phil: Yeah, I'll probably get this up tomorrow afternoon.

Tom: All right.

Tom: Sounds good.

Phil: All right.

Phil: Bye bye.

Tom: Bye bye.

The Press Room Episode 136

Tom "Foolz" Towers of Laserlemming.com and friend Aarny return to host the 136th episode of The Pressroom (while playing Left4Dead). On hand impressions of Left4Dead 2 (PC), God of War Collection (PS3), A Virus Named Tom (PC),
Demon Souls (PS3), Sly Cooper Collection (PS3), The Book of Unwritten Tales: The Critter Chronicles (PC), Journey (PS3), The Ship (PC), Half-Life (PC), Antichamber (PC), Nickerpole (PC), Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 (PC), Killzone 2 (PS3), Borderlands (PS3) and a Football gamegasm (soccer, sorry).​